BBC Blog Network

User Profile

Globaltraveller

Listed below are comments made by Globaltraveller between Friday, 29th May 2009 and Monday, 30th November 2009.

«Newer
Older»

Taking it to the max 7:53pm on 30 Nov 2009 Of course the UK has always been such a stunning fiscal success story (like it currently is).

In fact, back in September 1976, the UK was so successful at managing its finances that Denis Healey had to go begging cap-in-hand to the IMF in Washington for a bailout to tide the UK over. The first major industrialised and Western European nation to do so.

So whilst Unionists scoff at Iceland doing that, they tend to forget their OWN glorious Union blazed a trail there some years ago. An even Iceland has a lower fiscal deficit as a proportion of GDP than the UK has, according to the OECD - and Iceland is supposed to be bankrupt.
Taking it to the max 7:39pm on 30 Nov 2009 #127 quis_separabit

"I did so to support the argument that there would be massive blackholes in the Scottish economy should you gain fiscal independence. This should be clear to anyone with half a brain given that the Scots economy is so dependent on the public sector?"

But as was pointed out to you above - using Treasury and central government statistics - Scotland is even LESS dependent on the public sector than the UK as a whole. An uncomfortable fact that destroys your entire argument, but an easily verifiable fact nonetheless.
Taking it to the max 7:17pm on 30 Nov 2009 #46 the_pk1

"Oh and by the way when it does come, don't think that the division of north sea assets will follow the 55 degree parallel, that was just a political convenience at the time. It will be done following international guide lines in such matters so you will get around 60% not the 90% you are dreaming of (still a nice chunk though)."

Sorry to debunk another myth Sir, but may I refer the Honourable Gentleman to the paper below:-

"The Hypothetical Scottish Shares of Revenues and Expenditures from the UK Continental Shelf 2000 – 2013". Professor Alexander G. Kemp and Linda Stephen. University of Aberdeen, 2008.

(Easily findable on Google)

Noting particularly the conclusion from that paper:-

"The Scottish share of tax revenues was found to be in the range 82% - 87% in the period 2000 – 2007. From 2007 onwards the share becomes higher, generally being in the 88% - 90% range. The higher oil prices and the increasing share of production attributable to the Scottish sector account for the high share."

#112. Thanks very much Snowthistle!! (I think it is my pesky URLs not getting through the mods).
Taking it to the max 7:06pm on 30 Nov 2009 #46 the_pk1

"Oh and by the way when it does come, don't think that the division of north sea assets will follow the 55 degree parallel, that was just a political convenience at the time. It will be done following international guide lines in such matters so you will get around 60% not the 90% you are dreaming of (still a nice chunk though)."

Sorry to debunk another myth Sir, but may I refer the Honourable Gentleman to the paper below:-

[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]

Noting particularly the conclusion:-

"The Scottish share of tax revenues was found to be in the range 82% - 87% in the period 2000 – 2007. From 2007 onwards the share becomes higher, generally being in the 88% - 90% range. The higher oil prices and the increasing share of production attributable to the Scottish sector account for the high share."
Taking it to the max 6:54pm on 30 Nov 2009 #69 quis_separabit.

Sorry to debunk the myth with facts, but I think you'll find according to the Government Expenditure and Revenue (Scotland) analysis, total public spending in Scotland in 2007/08 was £53.3bn. Total Scottish GDP in the same year was £141.6bn. Now 53.3/141.6 does not come to over 50% of the economy being "state subsidised" - more like 38%.

Even if we were to take oil completely out of the equation, then Scottish GDP would be £113bn. 53.3bn/113bn, again does not come to over 50% of the economy being "state subsidised" - more like 47%.

For the UK as a whole, the equivalent figure is 43% according to the IFS. So, even on this measure, Scotland is in a considerably better position than the rest of the UK.

As for the comment about "net taxpayers", the only source I can find for this is an opinion piece in a tabloid newspaper. Says it all really.
Taking it to the max 6:35pm on 30 Nov 2009 #85 GloaminInTheRoman - I was just about to post that. As a proud Finstown boy, Orcadian and Scot (sadly living in Edinburgh for most of my life) I didn't know Orkney was such a hotbed of separatism!! What I do know is many Orcadians and Shetlanders resented the divide et impera tactics used by British Unionists during the 1979 referendum on Scottish Home Rule, which is why Scottish devolution was backed in the islands in the 1997 referendum.

#69 quis_separabit - Can I be the one to upset your little theories. Let's take a look at the most recent fiscal accounts for Scotland (2007-2008).

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2009/06/18101733/8

As we can see from this total public sector expenditure in Scotland was £53.3 billion. (That includes everything right from Healthcare spending in Scotland, down to our share of defence, UK debt interest, foreign affairs, social security - even the London Olympics and other miscellaneous expenditures).

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2009/06/18101733/5

Scrolling down to Box 3.2, in the same fiscal year, we can see, Scottish GDP was £141.6bn.

Now 53bn/141.6bn disnae lead to the conclusion that over 50% of Scotland's economy is "state subsidised". In fact, on that calculation only 38% of it is.

Even if we were to take oil completely out of the equation (Scotland's GDP would be £113bn) and even that disnae come to over 50% (it comes to 46%).

Wheras for the UK as a whole, well it seems that 43% of GDP is taken up by state subsidised spending:-

[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]

So perhaps on these calculations, perhaps it is Scottish taxpayers who most to gain from leaving the Union? As for your comment about the number of net taxpayers in Scotland - the only source I can seem to get for that is an opinion piece in a tabloid newspaper!!
Oiling the political wheels 09:00am on 18 Jun 2009 Good points, Douglas.

I have to say I love this notion in this fantasy Scotland Office report that an independent Scotland would "only" have been in surplus for 9 of the last 27 years - and that would somehow be a terrible thing.

So...er, on their own highly risible figures, an autonomous Scotland would still have been better off, fiscally, than England, Wales, Northern Ireland - and the UK as a whole which has only run a surplus in 6 of the last 27 years.

Or put another way, that £20bn cumulative debt for Scotland compares to the £500bn cumulative debt for the UK as a whole. Or, in other words, Scotland's share of that "UK" debt comprises about 4% of the total, when Scotland has nearly 9% of the population.

Are you sure the Scotland Office are not trying to secretly make the case against Union on these figures?
Labouring the immigration issue 2:27pm on 12 Jun 2009 "But it seems more likely the improvements in population trends come from an influx of young migrants from the A8, ex-Communist nations that joined the EU in 2004, the largest of which was Poland."

Actually Douglas, the effect of migration from the new A8 states has been significantly exaggerated, especially after the last few years. Don't get me wrong, it has been an important and welcome development in the rejunevation of Scotland's population and the strong positive growth we've seen in recent years. However, it does not constitute the whole story.

Over last few years, the key determinant in the growth of the Scottish population has been immigration from other parts of the UK. Even looking at the population estimates for the last year most of the net increase of 24,000 was derived from migration from the other countries of the UK - 11,500 or nearly 50% of the net increase. Overseas immigration accounted for less at 31% of the net increase and the remainder was taken up by net births (births minus deaths).

This follows a trend of the last 7 years or so in which far more people have come to Scotland from the UK than vice versa. Whilst the interplay of overseas immigration/emigration has seen more arrivals to Scotland than leavers it hasn't accounted for most of the rises we've seen to date.
Goal reached over political football 10:16pm on 29 May 2009 #36 But that's the point. For the vast majority of Scots (in Sporting spheres, at least) their country is Scotland. It starts and stops at Scotland. Not the UK, not GB and certainly not a glorified "Greater England".

And in answer to your last point, yes I'd be much happier seeing my country knocked out at the first stages than supporting a sham that goes further. A sham that I just simply cannot identify with.

If we really wanted to go into Union with other footballing nations to get into some kind of "exciting footballing adventure"........Then we'd be approaching France, Brazil, Argentina or the other nations which compose the "creme de la creme" of international football, don't you think?
Goal reached over political football 9:51pm on 29 May 2009 As a proud Scot (and most definitely never a Brit), I can understand the feelings of the majority of Scottish football fans who are against this. But God works in mysterious ways. This will be a "fraudulent" and unwanted team. I will most certainly be supporting whoever their opponents have to be. And you know the funny thing? If this were a purely "Team England" I'd support them all the way.

«Newer
Older»

^ Back to top

BBC MMVI

The BBC is not responsible for the content of external internet sites

BBC.co.uk

BBC Blog Network

Find and talk to the BBC's bloggers.

User Profile

Globaltraveller