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Listed below are comments made by TVGgirl between Friday, 23rd October 2009 and Friday, 27th November 2009 (9 Hours Ago) .

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China completes the climate circle 4:15pm on 27 Nov 2009 118. At 10:35am on 27 Nov 2009, JunkkMale wrote:
Tribal adherence and a good put down will trump logic and facts (especially linked ones) in argument every time.

The problem is the "logic and facts" are viewed on the basis of your starting position and the people you trust. I am convinced by the "logic and facts" presented by Real Climate. The head of the IPCC has made a public statement explaining why the CRU hacked e-mails do not have any impact on the conclusions of the IPCC. It sounded pretty logical to me, and he would have access to the facts better than most. I also personally know several highly respected IPCC contributing authors, and the fact that they lose sleep at night over what is happening with the climate scares me to death.

But I know that these comments will be dismissed out of hand by most of the people commenting on this thread -- so I don't see much point in engaging considering how shrill the tone of the debate is, and in particular the attacks on Richard personally (“reply or resign!" seems a bit childish). I have always found Richard’s reporting and blogs to be well researched and well balanced (including giving voice to opinions I consider far too generous to the sceptic side). I have no reason to believe he has suddenly lost his analytic abilities.

Re #151 yertizz "Richard Black writes a piece and invites comment"

You might note that he didn't write on this topic -- he was inviting comment on his blog about China's announcement. He already said he is not covering the hacked data story, and that others in the BBC are addressing it. Some of us actually consider other topics to be relevant and important, but there doesn't seem to be any space here anymore to discuss them. I can't help but wonder why you don't have this conversation in response to reporting and blogging on the topic elsewhere and let the rest of us discuss on Richard's blog the issues that he is blogging about. And in any case, does it occur to you that the guy might be busy with other things, travelling, or ill?
China completes the climate circle 08:18am on 27 Nov 2009 Re: #76. soveryodd

I'm with you -- the above reads like a collective temper tantrum.

I find the BBC's coverage of this issue perfectly appropriate and balanced.
Copenhagen Countdown: 17 days 8:14pm on 23 Nov 2009 Re: PAWB46 "That wouldn't be the same Andy Revkin that's in the emails would it? Head in sand?"

Yes, the very same one. Does that disqualify him from having a sound opinion? Particularly in light of the fact that he is described by one of the scientists as not being predictable. I would've thought this would increase his credibility, not decrease it.

But as I said in my previous post, this appears to be an insignificant story, and there is no sign of government negotiators taking particular notice of it. I was pleased to see Richard's story today about the likelihood of the US coming to Copenhagen with a target -- this could be a game changer.
Copenhagen Countdown: 17 days 6:17pm on 23 Nov 2009 Richard -- as always, I found your blog to be interesting and insightful, and it's unfortunate the comments have focused almost entirely on what I believe will turn out to be a storm in a teacup. An interview on this morning's World Service with Andrew Revkin, who's been writing on this story in some detail for the New York Times, was clear and to the point: even if the sceptics’ worst-case allegations in this story were true, they would only apply to a tiny fraction of the overall body of the science.

I would love nothing more than for the sceptics to turn out to be right -- but I agree with others who have pointed out that policy needs to be made on the basis of the precautionary principle, which is enshrined in virtually all modern multilateral environment agreements: the burden of proof is on those who damage the environment, not those who aim to protect it.

Looking forward to seeing your reports and analysis on the India/US bilateral tomorrow, the Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting later in the week, and other developments.
Climate: A defining issue 9:43pm on 17 Nov 2009 Richard -- you asked: "And where does the formulation that President Obama used in his Beijing speech - "not a partial accord or a political declaration, but rather an accord that covers all of the issues in the negotiations and one that has immediate operational effect" - fit in to the overall picture?"

I think it means that he/they recognized we aren't falling for their attempts over the last week or two to sell a soft "politically binding" agreement as a good outcome in Copenhagen. The more pushback, they get, the less likely they are to get away with a greenwashed outcome. As you say, there are a lot of countries still pushing for a legally binding treaty and even if this isn't completed in December, they aren't about to settle for more vague promises.
Copenhagen Countdown: 24 days 11:32am on 14 Nov 2009 I don't think you've missed anything Richard, though you might have made reference to your story this week on the acceleration of the melting of Greenland's ice cap -- all the more reason for governments to quit delaying and get down to business. I agree with you that the final outcome in Copenhagen is likely to be determined by the results of bi-lateral meetings and discussions in the margins of other events, particularly during Obama's Asian tour.

Regarding attendance by heads of state -- if they just show up to make speeches, essentially a repeat of the high-level summit in New York, then their presence will largely be a waste of precious negotiating time. What we need is real leadership. We need them to seriously negotiate and break the deadlocks. Someone should lock these people into a room and not let them out until they come up with a real solution.

Re: #6 -- no single country will be given responsibility to manage mitigation and adaptation funds. The task may be given to the World Bank for example.
Copenhagen Countdown: 31 Days 6:09pm on 07 Nov 2009 Speaking of political commitments, the G20 finance communiqué from today says: "... recognising that finance will play an important role in the delivery of the outcome at Copenhagen, we commit to take forward further work on climate change finance, to define financing options and institutional arrangements."

They have clearly made a lot of progress (not) since the summer:

President Obama, G8 summit, July 9 2009:
"We've asked the G20 finance ministers to take up the climate financing issues and report back to us at the G20 meeting in Pittsburgh in the fall."

Communique from G20 September 25 2009:
"We welcome the work of the Finance Ministers and direct them to report back at their next meeting with a range of possible options for climate change financing to be provided as a resource to be at the UNFCCC negotiations in Copenhagen."
Copenhagen Countdown: 31 Days 5:43pm on 07 Nov 2009 Richard -- Your reporting and blogging this week has been excellent.

It was particularly interesting to watch government and UN leaders start scaling down ambitions for a deal in Copenhagen while simultaneously spinning this as in a positive light.

Substituting "politically" binding for "legally" binding is a rather dubious sleight-of-hand. Since when have politicians ever been held to their commitments? As a rather ironic case in point, they committed themselves to a politically binding agreement in Bali two years ago which was supposed to result in a legally binding agreement in Copenhagen next month.

However, judging from headlines along the lines of "Hopes Fading for a Deal in Copenhagen" no one has been fooled. This is good, because the last thing we need is a bad deal wrapped up in a big green bow. What we do need, is some political will.
Copenhagen countdown: 38 days 10:27pm on 31 Oct 2009 Another excellent summary Richard. I understand we have Angela Merkel to thank, at least in part, for the EU Council's wishy-washy finance agreement. With that in mind, we should keep a close eye on her address to a joint session of Congress next week, along with the EU/US summit (November 3-4) during which the climate negotiations will be discussed.

Re 11. At 9:01pm on 31 Oct 2009, diggerjock wrote:

"Has it occurred to you reading these comments that by the time the 38 days have elapsed. It may be only you and Rowan who still believe any of this global warming tosh?"

Nope, we are firmly in the majority.
Copenhagen Countdown: 45 days 11:28pm on 23 Oct 2009 Good summary of the week's highlights Richard. But you missed the European finance and environment ministers meetings which took place on Tuesday and Wednesday. Finance ministers failed to reach an agreement on climate finance package, leaving the issue to be resolved by heads of state next week. If Europe doesn't deliver here, I fear the worst for Copenhagen.

Environment ministers agreed to 2050 targets consistent with a 2° scenario, which is a good thing. But 2020 commitments fall short of what the science says is needed, and are less ambitious than the commitments tabled by Japan and Norway. Surely they can do better!

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