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forgottenukcitizen

Listed below are comments made by forgottenukcitizen between Wednesday, 14th October 2009 and Saturday, 5th December 2009.

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Kabul, Afghanistan 12:09pm on 05 Dec 2009 39. jrperry:

Agreed, but the writing was on the wall for a long time before the crash wasn’t it.
Heck, even I was able to lift my head out of the Daily Sport for long enough to realise that, so why not the Tories?

I’d suggest they were riding the apparent tax & spend gravy train along with NuLabour & playing foot loose with their policy making.

I’m not so sure of the clear blue water you speak of, because both parties are playing things very close to their chests now the cat is out of the bag.
I have a feeling that this tactic will continue throughout the next election as well, so we will be left reading between the lines as usual.

Anyway, I would argue that if they are so concerned about spending, they wouldn’t be gallivanting around Afghanistan in Chinook helicopters & using up valuable security resources.

Still, gripping stuff from Nick all the same – keep it up.
Kabul, Afghanistan 10:20am on 05 Dec 2009 29. andfinally

Could it be that Cameron is using this opportunity to distract public attention from some of the Tories recent U-Turns?
For example – the apparent back down over the increase in prison places.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8392027.stm

And to think a previous thread asked us why Brown was smiling so much?

It would seem that Cameron has adopted the same kind of diversionary tactics as Brown (& Nick has fallen for it).
Kabul, Afghanistan 11:55pm on 04 Dec 2009 “David Cameron was shown what success looks like in Afghanistan. At a wheat distribution centre he spoke to farmers queuing to collect seed sold to them at a massive discount in the hope that it will tempt them away from growing poppy and fuelling the opium trade which finances the Taliban”.

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Success Nick – are you sure?
This tactic of trying to encourage the farmers to grow alternative crops has been tried time & time again to no avail.
The poppies make good profits for all of the interested parties, so the farmers invariably end up growing them again.
They need to sort out the drugs related corruption in the Afghan Government before this kind of tactic will work, but there’s no sign of that happening is there, just the usual noises being made.

And there was me thinking that the cheap (sic) publicity shots where being monopolised by Brown – pass the sick bag.
Why's Gordon smiling? 1:34pm on 03 Dec 2009 116. rockRobin7.

Good post, unfortunately all past UK Governments have been very selective in the information they give us.
This makes it very difficult for us to decide whether they are doing a good job or not.
EG: The last Tory Government where very selective in their treatment of the unemployment figures & NuLabour has followed this – just look at the number of people now in further education & on incapacity benefits.

It does seem to me that Brown is taking this to a new level though given the number of applications that have had to be filed under the Freedom of Information act.

Personally, I think Brown is grinning because one of his Big City buddies has just phoned him up to say a top paid job is his for the taking next year, so he’s literally laughing all the way to the bank.
This is just speculation on my part but watch this space – Think Blair (so long suckers).
The Lib Dems and a taxing subject 3:29pm on 01 Dec 2009 245. writingsonthewall wrote:

To accuse the Government of buying "IT systems that don't work" - is a bit silly really as it was a private company who made that IT system - and yet it's the Governments fault for it not working???

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Of course, it would help a heck of a lot if the Government departments concerned knew what they wanted in the first place instead of making the specification up as they went along on the hoof.
I’ve seen this happen myself in defence contracts & the resulting overspending can be huge.
Of course, it’s always the private companies fault isn’t it – we are expected to put it right at no extra cost LOL (um – can you make that aircraft a little bigger please, I’m sure it won’t cost much will it)?
It’s not right wing to want to see value for money & it’s widely accepted that – for example - the ID card scheme is a waste of money that we can ill afford.
It wouldn’t be so bad if our National & Local Governments knew how to negotiate a decent contract, but they don’t & that’s why we – the tax payers – always loose out.
Europe and the UK election 10:57am on 16 Oct 2009 301. Boilerplated,

Sorry Boiler, we will have to leave it there.

Since I have had several replies to my post(s) that make perfect sense, from people who obviously understand what I’m saying, I’m afraid that you are the odd one out here.

Not only that, but your grammar & spelling in 301 appear to be worse than my own (which isn’t good I admit), & you seem to be back in the same grove of the record again.

Like I said – Sometimes we have just got to move on.
Europe and the UK election 01:38am on 16 Oct 2009 283. Boilerplated

Sorry Boiler, but you have completely lost me here.

Isn’t it funny that the person who the post was directed too seemed to understand my comments perfectly well & responded in an informed & Gentlemanly way, even if we didn’t exactly agree with each other’s opinions?

It’s no secret that, as a rule of thumb, the UK Fleet Street media is generally Euro sceptic & somewhat right wing.

It’s also no secret that they are very quick off the mark to highlight what they think is petty EU legislation, but are very slow off the mark when it comes to more complex or (heaven forbid) practical legislation which may be of benefit.

Sorry if you didn't understand the spirit of the post.

Still – time to move on I think because we have had our monies worth out of this one & i'm surprised it's still open for comment.

I'd suggest More speed & less haste in future.
Europe and the UK election 12:17pm on 15 Oct 2009 If such draconian powers and unaccountability were built into the Treaty would not the mainstream UK press have found these and be screaming about them from the roof tops?

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They do but, as I’ve already pointed out to you, it’s usually in the form of mindless anti European drivel rather than informed debate.
An answer to this may be for the EU to take out full pages in the National UK papers & put their case forward for things like the Lisbon Treaty.

That in turn, may force the newspapers to respond with reasonable debate – well in some cases anyway (even Forgotten manages to get his head out of the Daily Sport every now & again – my joke).

As you should know, the UK Government does not communicate with the electorate in the UK very well, so there’s no use relying on them.
Our First past the post system of Government means that it is very difficult to measure how the population feel unless you have referenda asking them how they feel about specific issues.

Obviously you can’t do this every month but once a decade might be nice & the whole European issue would be a good start.

Of course I’m drifting into fantasy land, because the UK Government has never been particularly interested in what the UK population want anyway unless it suits their own agenda, so it won’t happen.
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No doubt you will come up with some sort of reply indicating that the French are as a nation part of some vast conspiracy. Is it only the Brits of the Eurosceptic persuasion who can read?
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Well I won’t, but I will point out that you are clearly happy with the whole EU experience in France, but perhaps lack empathy for those of us who are obviously not getting any visible benefit from it.

If I was happy with the EU (which obviously I am not – for reason’s I’ve explained), I might be more inclined to turn a blind eye to the dodgy expenses, balance books, further integration etc.
Why not, I’m reaping the benefits, so why rock the boat.

I’d also be very happy to see the various high profile projects that I saw when working recently (albeit a short time) in Europe, because I could come home & see similar things going on in my Town.
I can’t because it isn’t happening & hasn’t happened for 35 years now; how much patience are people expected to have?

I do hope this isn’t a case of the “I’m alright Jack” syndrome from other European Countries that are living the high life because times have changed in the UK - & not for the better.

Now we are flat broke now & facing a very difficult road ahead.
Rising slowly 7:24pm on 14 Oct 2009 147. Susan-Croft wrote:

It seems I am the only one disappointed with the unemployment figures today. Actually I think they are dreadful.
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I think this is a case of Labour kite flying Susan.

Example: They tell us there will be 3 million unemployed by Christmas & when the actual figure is 100 less they can throw their hands in the air & declare that they are doing a marvellous job.

It's all spin, spin, spin.
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Nick: This will allow the Treasury to make future "savings" (in reality, of course, simply a reduction in what they would otherwise have had to borrow) without making cuts.
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Savings – Stop it Nick, you are cracking me up.
Europe and the UK election 6:33pm on 14 Oct 2009 •231. T1m0thy wrote:
#226 forgottenukcitizen

Leaving the EU and losing the last of Britain's big manufacturing industry at the same time. All those Japanese/Korean car plants and other industry based in in Britain for one reason, UK membership of the EU. Many Japanese/Koreans speak French as well as they speak English how long do you think those plants will stay in the UK if the UK pulls out and the tariff barriers go up?
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Yes, I foresee that there would be quite a few toys thrown out of prams if we decided to leave the EU, especially by those countries that seem to be doing very well out of the deal.

There would be a lot of tit for tat tariffs for a while, but after the dust settled down, common sense would probably prevail & a reciprocal agreement between the UK & the EU bashed out.

It would be nice if we could just get back to the basic concept of the EEC, but there are now far too many fingers in pies for that to happen.
These are the same fingers that seem to be very reluctant to be subjected to the same expenses scrutiny that MP’s are being subjected to now & we have to ask ourselves why?

Somewhere along the line, the EU’s direction was changed from being a business based arrangement that was profitable to the UK to a wealth re-distribution exercise which it isn’t.

That’s the main reason why so many people in the UK feel that they have been lied to, because at no time was this change put to the people of the UK.

I did read that it costs Norway as much in tariffs to deal with the EU than it would cost in membership, but I have good friends in Norway & can confirm that they are very suspicious of the EU’s intentions if they were to become members.

Either way, tariffs usually end up being a zero sum affair if the traffic is equally loaded between the two sides.

Being a member of the EU did not help the 4 major factories around my way from closing, & it doesn’t help me a great deal in my current position because I have to travel a darn site further than the EU to work these days.

Still, I recognise that it must help some companies, but a trade agreement – without all of the EU baggage – could just as easily work.

Manufacturing in the UK has been in decline for decades now & this is likely to continue whether we are members of the EU or not.
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It is unfortunate that because of accidents of history, blatant interference by foreign nationals owning large chunks of the UK media, that the UK has become semi detached from Europe and has not seen many of the benefits of it's membership. I think you would be very much worse off out than in, the £, I would suspect, would go into freefall, but at some point you are going to have to decide and I don't think you have that long. Maybe another five years after which the other members are going to lose patience.

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I agree- there is far too much Murdoch based anti European drivel banded about in the press, but the only way to change this is for the EU to appeal to the public directly & change their image.
Perhaps if our own Government explained the reasoning behind much of the EU legislation, a few misunderstandings could be avoided.

As I keep on saying, people believe what they see with their own eyes, but if all they see (in my case anyway) is closures of Libraries, Swimming pools etc & not a EU Cent spent locally in their town, you can’t blame them for being sceptical & wondering if it is all worthwhile.

As for patience - I think it will be more a case of the UK loosing it with the EU than the EU loosing it with us.

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