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-Drachenfyre-

Listed below are comments made by -Drachenfyre- between Friday, 26th June 2009 and Sunday, 19th July 2009.

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More please? 5:52pm on 19 Jul 2009 When one speaks of admiring and respecting other cultures, they speak of course, of art, architecture, literature, the cadence and song of their language and the endearing turns of phrases, of national cuisine (prepared humanely of course), of music and dance. Each culture has a unique and rewarding expression that enriches all of humanity.

But all of that stops when human rights are violated and entrenched in a culture.

The fact that Islamic law wishes their women to be treated with honor and respect is admirable and commendable. Sharia law discriminates against women and segregates them in society and even in the home, and is intolerable. Its a violation of basic human rights.

If, in a democratic society where rights are enshrined in a constitution or code of laws, a women wishes to wear the abaya, hijab, nigab, then she is most welcome to, as one can trust she has the freedom to make such a choice. But in a society where she may not vote, demonstrate, or voice her views in public and affect change, is criminal.

I respect freedom of speech too much, but by All the Gods of Man, I am truly disgusted by your sentiments Mapexx.
More please? 5:33pm on 19 Jul 2009 re: 57

I have never read something more chauvinistic in my entire life! I am astounded by your comments Mapexx, more so then your usual anti-Welsh rants. Now I can add sexist and anti-woman too!

Right now, there is no national parliament for women to be elected to and vote in, and the only elections ever held in 2005, women were barred from standing for public office and even voting! This and the fact that they do not have gender equality in all other aspects of the law and society makes them second class citizens.

To see any virtue in this political and social arrangement is alarming and troubling.

I am an internationalist, and have lived in S. E. Asia for five years and have a healthy respect for many world cultures. Respect of a foreign culture stops when human rights violations are evident, codified into law, or aloud to occur because it is traditional. One can not sacrifice basic human freedoms as gender equality, racial and ethnic equality, religious freedom, and sexuality equality.

The 5% of women in the workplace are segrated into low waged jobs away from men, dispite the fact that 70 percent of women have attended universities!

Women may not become judges or lawyers, or hold any position or high office which are reserved for men only!

Women are forced into a dress code, while men are not. These women will be harassed by Religious Police if they are found out of uniform.

In law, women may not testify in a court of law unless it is a personal matter that did not occur in the sight of a man. And in Saudi legal jurisprudence, a womans testimony is considered presumption, not fact. The reasoning?

Women are much more emotional than men and will, as a result of their emotions, distort their testimony.
Women do not participate in public life, so they will not be capable of understanding what they observe.
Women are dominated completely by men, who by the grace of God are deemed superior; therefore, women will give testimony according to what the last man told them.
Women are forgetful, and their testimony cannot be considered reliable

You can read more on wiki, Women's rights in Saudi Arabia

Your views on women in Saudi Arabia are abhorrent, and the fact that you sympathize with them ( "Quite often considering the way this western way of life has gone over recent decades, I find myself, to a small degree, in sympathy with those restrictionsis"), is frightening and I feel truely sorry for any women in your life.
More please? 11:41am on 19 Jul 2009 41, mapexx wrote:
Message 23....

quote...

"....There are myriad states in which human rights abuses take place throughout the world. The treatment of women in Saudi Arabia is appalling, yet the dictatorial regime there is one of the US and UK's closest allies in the Middle East....."

And how many times have you been to the KSA?

I can assure you, from my five years in that kingdom, that women are NOT treated appallingly.

They are subjected to two major restrictions, one is based on the ideas promoted strongly by the males, and supported by the religious police, that they should not be in the company of non related males, unless accompanied by a male relative.

There are even exclusions to that, in that they can travel in taxis driven by a male, as long as they do not sit adjacent the driver, and they can deal with male shop assistants directly.

The other restriction is they are not allowed to drive cars, at present, although there is a swelling movement to get that restriction overturned. Again it is to do with the potential they may make liaisons with non related males, in other words meet up with lovers, etc.

Quite often considering the way this western way of life has gone over recent decades, I find myself, to a small degree, in sympathy with those restrictions.

Although having the right to easy divorce, the males do not take such action lightly, it costs big time, and divorce rates are among the lowest in the world. Women in fact are treated with a high degree kindness and respect, far higher I would suggest than many women in the west.

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OMG! I can not believe I have read this correctly! Are you truly defending the status of women in Saudi Arabia!?!!!? They are second class citizens! To say nothing of the honor killings committed in Saudi Arabia and aloud to go unpunished! I can not believe anyone is actually defending sexism! Its unconscionable!

I am appalled! wow!
More please? 10:39am on 19 Jul 2009 re: 53,

err! I ment to say 'Llewellyn III'! (not second!)
More please? 10:28am on 19 Jul 2009 51. TheStonemason wrote:

-Drachenfyre-, I read with interest your words at 48

Interesting rhetoric, where do you propose to recruit the political leadership to steer this new ship of state, at Cardiff Bay, or from Plaid personnel I see plenty of stokers, hot air, but little in the way of navigation.

I notice your retention of the description "principality", do you propose inviting the Prince of Wales to stay on.

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Re: 51

I have faith in the Welsh people. Welsh men and women, and naturalized Welsh citizens, would step forward to lead their nation. Once independent, you may have talented Welsh men and women return home too! These talents may come from rival parties as well. As Wales most likely will continue to have four main parties in the foreseeable future, coalition governments and parliaments will become the norm. This is not a bad thing, as coalition governments would blunt the extreme element of any one party, and promoting a centrist and middle-of-the-road government style. I like that. Countries like the Netherlands, Denmark, and Belgium have all demonstrated the virtues of coalition governments, even across politically opposing philosophies.

Furthermore, I think you would see much different behavior from all of the politicians in Wales once the issue of Unionism is removed. Once Wales is independent, and the parties loyal to their constituents in Wales, rather then to party bosses in another country (who are themselves slaves to the numerically dominate English voter); you will see them refocus their energies on policies which would benefit the people of Wales directly.

This leads to your second point. Yes, I think a Welsh constitutional monarchy would be the best political framework for Wales; especially in the context of reoccurring coalition governments. This would allow a perspective Welsh prime minister to focus solely on the mechanics of government, and not show-boating. This would allow the technocratic to become prime minister, not necessarily the most photogenic.

In those nations with a constitutional monarchy, the monarch maintains between 70 and 85 per cent job approval rating, consistently out-performing the approval rating of elected officials. A constitutional and politically non-partisan Prince or Princess of Wales, as head of state, would embody and personify a distinctly Welsh national identity above party politics in a way that an elected president, one who is by implication elected by only some of the people, can not.

A Welsh Prince of Princess would, by necessity, be able to speak both Welsh and English (with a Welsh accent) reside year round in Wales, and head a distinctly Welsh Honors system. Funding for a Welsh monarchy would be modest, and indeed not cost any more then maintaining a president.

To put it in commercial terms, a Prince or Princess of Wales is a brand, much the same as the monarchies in other nations, one that would be easily recognized over generations, and formulating formal and informal relations with leaders of other nations.

Essayist Sion Jobbins suggested asking a junior member of the Windsor family to become Prince of Wales. This is what the people of Norway did when they invited a junior son of the Danish royal family to become their king in 1907. However, I tend to favor the suggestion made by Dr. D.J. Davies of raising a member of the Welsh gentry family to the position. One who has contributed to the interests of Welsh culture and society through the generations. From my perspective, I would invite Evan Vaughan Anwyl of Ty-Mawr, Tywyn, and Merionydd, to become Prince of Wales. According to Burkes Peerage, Evan Vaughn Anwyl, b. 1943, is the only known direct patrilineal descendent of Rhodri the Great (d. 878), Gruffydd ap Cynan (d. 1137) and Owain Gwynedd (d. 1170) and heir to the Aberffraw legacy.

Prehaps Evan Vaughn would adopt the name of state as Owain V, or Dafydd III, or Llywelyn II, or prehaps remain as Prince Evan? (Carl of Demark adopted the name of state Haakon V.)
More please? 07:44am on 19 Jul 2009 On topic and re: 14, 16, 18, 23,

An independent Welsh principality would be able to craft an economic strategy that would attract businesses to Wales. Wales would always be economically engaged with England, and this would be healthy for both countries.

Wales location to central England (and to France via the channel tunnel and S. Wales ports) would attract businesses to set up manufacturing and distribution centers there; especially if an English parliament maintained a corporate tax thresh-higher then would Wales. A Welsh economic minister and Welsh parliament would be able to pursue a policy wholly answerable to the needs of the Welsh people. Couple a lower corporate tax thresh-hold with energy rebates to businesses and the location of Wales to the English midlands, and corporations would be lining up to place manufacturing and distribution centers in Wales. This is how businesses would be attracted to Wales.

The issue of language is a dead horse, as clearly companies care not what the locals speak, so long as they can manage costs they would be willing do locate anywhere.

Wales is fortunate because it does have exploitable natural resources. If they could exploit them for their own good rather then have their natural resources siphoned off to another nation. As award wining economist Dr. D. J. Davies wrote, the Welsh economy would benefit directly with an energy and public works program similar to the Tennessee Valley Authority, (Perhaps a Welsh Energy Authority?). Energy would be generated from hydroelectric and wind stations, as well as from oil refining and from nuclear power in Anglesey. Excess energy could be sold to the international energy market generating profits which would lower energy costs for the average Welsh family. Additionally, such a public works program would employ many thousands of Welshmen and women for generations.

With businesses saving money on corporate tax and on manufacturing by locating in Wales, as well as distribution savings located just across the border from the English midlands, costs for products made in Wales would be less and would save English consumers money too! A win-win.

As Bryn has pointed out, independent nations with comparable populations have been able to do much more with much less. Wales would be no different.

Currently, Welsh interests are handicapped because of the union with England. With the Welsh MPs constantly out voted, English MPs have more direct influence on economic policies in Britain, and therefore the economic policies favor companies to locate in England rather then elsewhere.

With an independent Wales, a Welsh government and parliament would have the constitutional authority to direct fiscal policy and spending, and the need for the Barnett formula would be unnecessary.

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An independent Wales would need to fund a healthy military force that would be used primarily through the United Nations, and other bilateral alliance agreements, to defend Welsh sovereignty and those of her allies.

More then likely, Welsh interest would be compatible with England, as both would benefit from relatively world wide free trade routes, and one could see Welsh military unites on deployment in peace keeping missions.

Though not directly targeted by al Qaeda and the Talaban, an independent Wales, allied through NATO or sanctioned through the United Nations, could deploy forces into international hot-spots such as Afghanistan, especially if such a deployment was subsidized by another nation. It should not be forgotten that al Qaeda is the enemy of every free secular democratic Western nation including Wales, not just the US and England.

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Re: 26

Gwynfor Evans was no bully, lol! Thats Nye Bevan and Margeret Thatcher for you!
Who pays? 09:22am on 05 Jul 2009 Every nation-state has a moral imperative to see to its own defense, even small nations. To suggest that just because a nation is small it should abrogate its moral imperative because the challenge of maintaining its defense is daunting is a gross surrender to tyranny and rule by foreign governments. I hope that the Danish conservative party Lyn wrote of never acquired much of a following. It is the responsibility of small nations to form alliances of mutual defense to preserve their way of life.

Lyn Thomas does have the right of it. Even in this tough economic environment objectively cutting cultural and artistic programs in Wales is short sighted. I suspect BritNats and Unionists will seek to cut funding for culture and the arts because for them their culture and artistic expression in not centered in Wales, but in London. There do they see their cultural identity, and therefore they see no value with the Assembly maintaining any funding whatsoever for culture and art generated in Wales (from which ever language). This is why they criticize spending any funds in maintaining cultural links with the Welsh of Patagonia. I wonder too if they would criticize Welsh participation in the Smithsonian Folklife Festival held on the National Mall in Washington DC in June, the Wales Smithsonian Cymru. The event highlighted Welsh American interest in Wales and Welsh culture, including language.

While tough economic times will necessitate tighter budgets, there should not be any knee jerk reaction to unilaterally cut culture and arts funding.

Wales is truly handicapped because of its Union with England. Had Wales historically remained independent, and then a Welsh gentry class would have acquired wealth to invest domestically in Wales, then internationally, and building a thriving middle class. Profits from the vast Welsh woodlands could have been sold to England for England to build its navy fleet, and later coal from the Welsh valleys could have been sold to England as England carved out its vast Empire. Today, wind and hydroelectric power generated in Wales could be sold to the international electric market, cutting the utility cost for the average Welshman while generating a profit to reinvest in the Welsh economy.

All of these investments would have benefited from a Wales stock market.

It is still not too late for Wales to gain its independence and invest in its own infrastructure, attract sustainable business and catering to niche markets who find Waless centralized location to England desirable. Wales needs a Welsh stock market, and an independent government wholly and completely answerable to the Welsh electorate that would have the lines of authority to craft a Wales specific strategy for dealing with the economic crisis.

No happy union for the Welsh in this unhappy economic environment.
What did I miss? 9:37pm on 26 Jun 2009 Re: Bryn 20/21

Well I am no advocate for monarchy in the US or really any other country. An advocate is someone who -like you say- actively campaigns one way or another. I do not actively campaign but rather here have brought it to light. It really depends on context.

And you are quite right that it is a matter for the people of Wales to vote on when the time comes but I think you may underestimate the allure of monarchy.

It just seems to me that the way self-determination is setting itself up it looks as though the Queen of England will also willy nilly be also Queen by right in Wales. And though I respect the work she has done on behalf of England, I would much rather see Welsh loyal to their own really. Wouldnt you prefer Welsh monarchist to look to a Welshman then to an Englishman?

And I admit to romantic notions of Welsh princes and princesses, and fully see modern constitutional monarchy as a viable choice for the people if they are truly educated on the issue. Nothing would be more nostalgic then to consider appointing the direct living patrilineal descendent of Owain ap Gryffydd of the House of Aberffraw. Commonly known as Owain Gwynedd as Prince of Wales.

One lives today Evan Vaughn Anwyl of Tywyn, Gwynedd.
Wouldnt that be historic justice on an epic scale? Restoring the family that had fought so valiantly for Welsh independence but were disinherited by the Edwardian Conquest and Statue of Rhuddlan?

Sion Jobbins wrote Why Not a Welsh Royal Family in the January 2008 edition of Cambria Magazine (you may also go to his official website and read the article there), and while he does admit that his inclinations are republican, he doesnt necessarily feel that Wales is or will be. His republicanism in the context of anti-English monarchy then anything else, which I bet is true of most Welsh republicans.

Jobbins was writing on the article Wales must have a Monarchy by DJ Davies (d. 1958), very influential Plaid essayist and himself a one-time republican who was, according to Professor John Davies, as equally influential in Plaid Cymru ideology. Davies is the one who articulated most of Plaids policies following Saunders Lewis departure as party president. Davies directly influenced Gwynfor Evans and by extension Ieuan Wyn Jones and Lord Elis-Thomas and Adam Price. Really Davies influenced the entire left wing of the party.

Davies had also served in the US military during the first world war.

Jobbins wrote that Welsh republicans cloak themselves in all the paraphernalia of native Welsh monarchy be it the Aberffraw family arms of Llywelyn I the Great or Llywelyn II the Last, or that of Owain Glen Dwr. Welsh republicans mark time by eulogizing the Welsh princes and Welsh royal families just as they attack the English monarchy. And it is not surprising really, because it was the Aberffraw family alone direct descendants of Rhodri the Great and further back the Manaw and Brithonic men of the North.. who by the 13th centuries had laid the foundation for an independent Welsh state, according to historian John Davies in his History of Wales.

No doubt that the English monarchy is shrouded in much Imperialistic Splendor and excessive colonial phat it will need to be trimmed down. But it works for the English.

You and I agree on almost most issues really, except for this. I respect that.
What did I miss? 11:51am on 26 Jun 2009 16. Bryn_Teilo wrote

You had me until the anti monarchy statements :(

I agree that an Englishman can not serve as a Welsh prince, and believe that the Welsh monarchy should be vested in a Welshman. I reject the notion that constitutional monarchy is anachronistic with a modern left of center liberal democratic state, as Denmark, Norway, and Spain all demonstrate. Indeed, a constitutional monarchy can easily be codified in a Welsh constitution akin to that of Spain.

According to Sion Jobbins, Monarchy today is more about national identity then it is about "wealth and privilege", and if a Welsh constitutional prince or princess resident in Wales engenders that kind of national identity what is the harm in that?
What did I miss? 10:27am on 26 Jun 2009 re: 12. Neocromwellian

"The Main Question
What percentage of the population actually understands the way in which devolution does or does not work."

Well the truth is most people have very little idea where their taxes go to really. They have little idea which level of government really has an effect on their daily lives. This is true across all Liberal Western Democracies, not just the Welsh. So when you see eyes glaze when Sir Emry begains to speak on details about government... it really needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Details on government authority has very limited appeal really.

The real question for the Welsh people is... should the Welsh Assembly have primary law making authority on all domestic issues that effect the lives of the Welsh people, as compared to having Welsh issues debated by 606 non Welsh MPs who have an Anglo-Centric agenda.

re: 13 Benedek

(...) With respect, paragraphs are your friend! :)

"A paragraph typically consists of a unifying main point, thought, or idea accompanied by supporting details. Each paragraph builds on what came before and lays the ground or run the length of multiple pages, and may consist of one or many sentences."

Regarding your other points

1. "The real argument revolves around would more powers make the lives of ordinary people any better and would it make Wales a more prosperous region of the UK."

Yes they would. Professional politicians who are resident in Wales and closer to the people and empowered by the full force of law can craft legislation and enact incentives to encourage businesses to come to Wales or remain in the country. Currently, businesses are lured away from Wales because of the English Labour (as opposed to Welsh Labour) and Conservative bloc attracts businesses and companies into the English midlands. Nothing against the English bloc because they are doing for their constituents. But there is just so many of them.

There is no reason why Wales can not attract sustainable business and have a healthy trade practice with England that is similar to that of the relationship between Denmark has with economic powerhouse Germany.

2. "In many areas the Labour Party, for example, which would be crucial for any yes vote is a complete shell incapable of campaigning on anything."

It is a wake up calls yes, but with a Tory government in London Welsh Labour, Plaid, and Libdems will coalesce to oppose them. They will campaign far more fervently for more power for Wales akin to that of Scotland. For right now, the perception of the Labour-Plaid coalition is one of stability as compared to that of London. And the idea of a Tory government in London will stick in the throats of so many in Wales.

The animosity between Plaid and Welsh Labour is less then that between all of the parties and the Tories

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