BBC Blog Network

User Profile

NickCooper625

Listed below are comments made by NickCooper625 between Friday, 3rd July 2009 and Tuesday, 22nd September 2009.

«Newer
Older»

The baroness and the illegal immigrant 1:36pm on 22 Sep 2009 redrobb: "Can I just point out that this privilaged person has has nothing to do with Scotland, heavens knows where they thought this title up from and quite frankly I don't care. I doubt if the lady in question has ever travelled on business / holiday to this part of the country."

It's the surname of her parents that she acquired at birth. Are you suggesting that people whose surnames are placenames are not entitled to them if they've never been there?
The Conspiracy Files: 7/7 11:54am on 07 Jul 2009 Finntelligence/316

The Panorama programme cannot be seen in isolation. In February 2002 the BBC transmitted Smallpox 2002, a drama depicting a biological terrorist attack. In February 2004 they screened Crisis Command: Hijack, similar to the later Panorama in that it presented a panel of experts with a fictional scenario, in this case an aircraft hijacking, and bombings at Underground & mainline train stations; a later programme in the same series was about a terrorist hostage-taking. Dirty War in September 2004 was a drama about a radiological bomb being detonated outside Liverpool Street Tube station. In addition, the BBC series Spooks had already run for three series before 7/7 - while at fourth was being filmed at the time - featuring numerous terrorist attack scenarios. Panorama: London Under Attack was clearly just one of a number of similarly-themed productions that appeared around the time, which is hardly surprising in the wake of 9/11. You can't isolate it and imply that it was something extraordinarily unexpected, when actually it was part of a clear trend of speculation.

Even then, Panorama envisaged bombs going off between Knightsbridge and Hyde Park Corner stations on the Piccadilly line, between Tottenham Court Road and Oxford Circus on the Central Line, and at Vauxhall on the Victoria line. The "surface vehicle" was a road tanker full of chlorine 500 metres north of Liverpool Street station. So none of the "regular" explosions were at the locations that happened in real life, while the "surface vehicle" was effectively a chemical attack near one of the stations an actual bomb on 7/7 was between and another station. In the programme, all three explosions on the Underground were in deep tubes, as opposed to one on 7/7, the other two being sub-surface lines. The Underground explosions were over a 17 minute time period, not simulateously, while the tanker explosion happened almost two hours later.

Your "complaint" to the BBC is flawed on many grounds, not least because you claim, "on the morning of 7/7/2005 there was an antiterrorism exercise going on in three London underground stations based on simultaneous bombs going off, and precisely the same thing happened in real life during the exercise" (my emphasis). In fact it has been established for some time that the "exercise" was an office-based one, involving no activity "in" real stations at all, and that it did not involve all six stations either side of the the actual explosions on 7/7. The choice of Liverpool Street is hardly novel, given that two of the BBC programmes detailed above featured attacks at or near it.
The Conspiracy Files: 7/7 12:46pm on 06 Jul 2009 redmichael2: You seem very emphatic on highlighting on particular "anomaly."

224: "Jules is in Leeds (yes, as in the home town of 3 bombers) on 6th July giving a talk on - terrorism!" & "Rudolph Giuliani (an alleged 9/11 villain) DRIVES DOWN TO LONDON FROM LEEDS SOMETIME BETWEEN THE 6TH AND 7TH OF JULY 2005."
229: "To repeat: What are the odds on Rudolph Giuliani making EXACTLY the same journey at the bombers at EXACTLY the same time?"
232: "Guiliani doing exactly the same journey as the bombers at the same time."
261: "Giuliani's journey very possibly being EXACTLY the one taken by the bombers at very possibly the approximate time."
303: "Rudy's little road trip from Leeds to London over 6th/7th July 2005"

This is a perfect example of the flexibility of the conspiracist mindset. A claim of Giuiliani being "in Leeds" and initial uncertainty over the date of his claimed journey from there to London, is followed by a shift to claiming it was "EXACTLY the same journey" at "EXACTLY the same time" as three of the bombers.

Given that we know that Giuliani was having breakfast at his hotel in London on the morning of 7 July, it seems highly unlikely that he made the journey that morning, so it must in fact have been the previous day, staying overnight at the same hotel. So, not "EXACTLY the same time" at all.

Furthermore, Giuliani had been actually speaking at 14:00 on 6 July 2005 at a Local Givernment Association conference in Harrogate, an entirely separate city to Leeds. His journey, then, would have been from Harrogate to London, not "EXACTLY the same journey" as three of the bombers. There is no reason to suppose that he was ever "in Leeds" at all, except in the sense of passing through if his journey to London had been by rail. If by car, it would have bypassed the city entirely.

Of course, the bottom line is that this remains nothing more than a bizarre coincidence in the absence of any reason why there should be a connection between Giuliani's movements and those of three of the bombers.
The Conspiracy Files: 7/7 7:18pm on 04 Jul 2009 J7Truth/257 - Where does the "9.09" time come from? Then again, "5 minutes after the explosion" is 09:15, so at six minutes we're looking at another relatively narrow window.
The Conspiracy Files: 7/7 5:51pm on 04 Jul 2009 J7Truth/254 - So that means there was around 16 minutes between the major incident being declared, and the bus explosion. Given that the diversion occured at several minutes before the latter, is that really enough time to expect - in the confusion on the ground on the day - the diversion to be rescinded or altered?
The Conspiracy Files: 7/7 3:33pm on 04 Jul 2009 J7Truth wrote/246 - You're overlooking the simple reality of the one-way system in that area. Vehicles coming in from Herbrand Street on the left and right would then turn in the direction the parked vehicles (and the parked taxis, for that matter) are facing, as Bernard Street is one-way in that direction. Similarly, since Russell Square itself is one-way anti-clockwise, the single line of traffic crossing from left to right at the end of Bernard Street would not have presented any great issue for emergency vehicles coming in from that end, either (with all other vehicles being made to turn left up Woburn Place.
The Conspiracy Files: 7/7 1:16pm on 04 Jul 2009 J7Truth/244 - That's misleading, given that Russell Square station is in a side street off Russell Square itself. The diverted buses would have passed the end of this street, not the station itself. This would not have affected access to the station from the opposite direction.
The Conspiracy Files: 7/7 12:17pm on 04 Jul 2009 marxoid/242 I had doubts about redmichael2's claim that the No. 30 was the "only" diverted bus, hence I always framed it above as "if it was. The point that clearly no more buses could be diverted along the same route after the explosion obviously still stands in restricting the number of such possible diversions.
The Conspiracy Files: 7/7 09:12am on 04 Jul 2009 redmichael2/232

1) You're highlighting the "similar" whilst ignoring the disimilar. The exercise was at three stations, rather than between six stations. The odds might seem impressive, but if it was a six-horse accumulator bet, you'd lose.

2) You seem to be willfully ignoring the obvious. The diversion happened only when the number of emergency vehicles in front of King's Cross station has completely blocked the road by around 09:30. If the No. 30 was the "only" bus diverted, it was because it was the first and then the actual explosion prevented any other buses being diverted down the same route. Woburn Place/Tavistock Square is a major road and a regular route for other buses, some of which were in front and behind the No. 30 - it's not some quiet side-street.

3) Highly imporbable things happen every day. After a suburban train, Underground, and the another suburban train to one of the three stations that is convenient for my place of work, that I then got on a particular bus is statistically very improbable. But I was still on that bus.

Occam's Razor is a concept that few conspiracists seem to recognise is their enemy, not their friend.
The Conspiracy Files: 7/7 10:50pm on 03 Jul 2009 redmichael2/224

1) The office-based Visor exercise envisaged incidents at three stations - King's Cross, Russell Square, and Liverpool Street. King's Cross and Liverpool street are major Underground/surface stations, and obvious targets (e.g. Liverpool Street was the target of a terrorist attack in the BBC's 2004 drama Dirty War). If I remember correctly, Russell Square was the nearest station to the client's offices. That's incidents at three stations, not between them and three other stations in real live on 7/7.

2) Repeating myself, if the No. 30 was the only bus diverted, it was the first one, and obviously once it blew up no other buses could be diverted along the same route. The bus had to be diverted, because its usual route ahead was effectively blocked.

3) So what? What purpose does their presence serve in your scenario?

«Newer
Older»

^ Back to top

BBC MMVI

The BBC is not responsible for the content of external internet sites

BBC.co.uk

BBC Blog Network

Find and talk to the BBC's bloggers.

User Profile

NickCooper625