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lordBeddGelert

Listed below are comments made by lordBeddGelert between Friday, 23rd October 2009 and Monday, 26th October 2009.

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Mulling it over 12:46pm on 26 Oct 2009 iggy23 - My interpretation of that comment is echoed by something Mark Mardell wrote on his blog recently. Politics in America covers all 50 states, and people complained that he was not getting 'out and about' enough.

His response was that in such a country it was very difficult to get outside the 'Beltway Bubble' which is the land within the 'ring road' in Washington DC, which is where the media focus is - on things like Capitol Hill, the White House - rather than say the 'bigger picture' of Tea Party protests, healthcare town halls and the like.

Just as the London-centric media focus on life within the M25 and politics is all about what happens in Westminster, I suspect that the media is finding it harder to get dragged away from the Cardiff Bay bubble, which is where all the 'action' is perceived to be - so that they don't miss a 'scoop'.

I guess much of journalism, whether it be sport, science or education is driven by this 'herd instinct' now, rather than being willing to 'go out on a limb', or do some 'investigative journalism'.

Of course, others may interpret things differently ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/10/so_much_applause_back_slapping.html
AM Glass box for monday 12:36pm on 26 Oct 2009 Helena [what a lovely name ! ]

Don't be such an old stick in the mud ! Children love to chat and mix with others, so why not go the whole hog and fix them up with those 'headsets' and start training them early to say 'your call is held in a queue and will be answered shortly..'

Or while their having their 'headset hour' [which has replaced numeracy and literacy hour] they could be taught to say 'would you like fries with that ?'

And no doubt the next Balls idea will be the Fisher-Price Activity Contact Centre with flashing lights for 'Calls in Queue' and a button which when pressed goes 'Your call is important to us!'

You see Helena this is the future - embrace that change !!
AM Glass box for monday 12:14pm on 26 Oct 2009 I'm not sure this company needs any further publicity, but an interesting story all the same..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8320043.stm
The BNP on Question Time. 11:01am on 24 Oct 2009 One wonders whether consideration is now being given to allowing another member of the BNP, say Andrew Brons MEP, to appear on Any Questions during 2010 ?
The BNP on Question Time. 09:48am on 24 Oct 2009 A thought-provoking film by an independent production company..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNGb85OtoTQ&feature=fvw

This expose 'contains strong language'..

It also usefully refers to a figure of 'some 20% of people considering voting BNP' BEFORE the Question Time film, so it ill behoves Peter Hain to blame the BBC for the numbers seen in the survey quoted in the Telegraph.
Nick Griffin on Question Time 10:08pm on 23 Oct 2009 Generally a very good programme, although I'm not sure I would agree with Kelvin Mackenzie that it was up there with 'Frost/Nixon'...

I am not going to fall into the trap of doing a 'player rater' for each of the participants. But I would make the following general comments.

The BBC Trust and Question Time producers were not right not to accede to requests to pull the programme or capitulate to the threat of legal action by Peter Hain. This would have been counter-productive in my view. We can close our eyes and ignore the fact that people have been voting for the BNP but it is not going to alter that reality. We have to decide what action we will take as a result and banning him from the QT programme is not going to help in understanding why people have voted BNP.

This is an important wake-up call, and as many of the guests pointed out last night, there are questions of whether the issues of concern to the voters have been listened to, and whether the politicians have responded adequately as a result.

I have some sympathy with Hain over the issue of 'legitimacy' but the idea that the BNP are not already communicating with many people via the internet, unfiltered and without balance and impartiality without their being challenged means that they do need to be engaged in a debate.

Many criticised the appearance on Question Time by saying 'He should be the subject of a hostile interview by the likes of Jeremy Paxman'. Well he has already. And Andrew Neil. They were tough interviews where he was subjected to a grilling. But once the people were voting BNP in numbers there was always going to come a time where he had to face an audience.

Balancing the danger of him being seen as just slightly further to the far-right / far-left of, say, UKIP or Respect, depending on one's view - or of it being an 'ambush' which would be used as a propaganda coup was never going to easy - and QT should be applauded for taking these risks.

My personal view is that this programme could have been extended 10-15 minutes to allow a 'warm-up' question on the Post Office to emphasise the 'normality' of a debate - but others will feel that this was not to acknowledge the distinct nature of the BNP.

I don't believe the audience was 'gerrymandered', but part of the problem here is that metropolitan audiences, by their nature younger and more affluent, may not fully comprehend the pressures being faced by the people who have been in the sights of the BNP's targeted campaigns. They may be too ready to assume that people voting for Griffin have delved into his past, rather than latching on to some headline policies.

Saying that, Baroness Warsi did do a very good job of putting across the dilemmas faced by people in her 'square mile' in the north of England and how the argument should be more about winning over the public than 'beating the BNP over the head'.

I was disappointed that Jack Straw maybe didn't concede that saying one thing and doing another over EU issues, or a situation of 'words and figures differ' on levels of european migration didn't help build trust in the Government and could lead to disaffection.

As for the question of 'ganging up' on Griffin. Well in a sense he has put himself outside the political mainstream, so he can hardly complain about being in a minority, but maybe some consideration should have been given to having other 'nationalist' parties like the SNP or Plaid Cymru represented to show that racism does not need to be a feature of looking after national interests.

I'm not David Dimbleby's biggest fan, and often find him a bit too smug and pompous, especially with the studio audience. But he did come into his own last night - this was the sort of strong character needed to deal with the large personalities. Griffin was held to account on key points such as his video with David Duke. But there was I think a bit of a danger of Griffin being 'painted into a corner' rather than asked to spend a bit of time explaining and justifying his positions.

But this is maybe to risk not seeing the wood for the trees. Such a QT was never going to perfect - but that is not a reason for not having taken the decision to go ahead with it, and taking the flak accordingly.

Many wish to resort to the law to silence and shut down Griffin. But my questions are these. If one didn't have access to the law, what would your responses to the BNP be then ? Shouldn't we be doing those things anyway ?

Also in any situation whether it be Northern Ireland in the past and the Middle East in the future, it is very tempting to think that if certain key personalities could be moved out of the way, things would improve. This is often not the case, as those people are figureheads representing large bodies of opinion which are not going to change overnight because one person retires or is replaced by a deputy.

And the various reasons people chose to vote for the BNP may not go away just by choosing not to put them on the platform of public scrutiny.

So we have to acknowledge our complacency and treat this programme, to coin a phrase, as a 'call to action' - and hope our politicians do the same.

And whilst there will much debate among historians about the various aspects of Winston Churchill's life and career, many will agree with his statement that 'jaw jaw is better than war war'. However difficult last night's debate may have been for some people, trying to suppress debate and free speech is not, in my view, the answer as it has too much of a risk of people resorting to weapons other than words..
The BNP on Question Time. 8:40pm on 23 Oct 2009 Tom and Alan,

Clearly I have only heard the 'home leg' of the argument. I can only comment on that. Of course we can agree that racism is always wrong - but I think Tom's problem is that he would prefer to try and maintain purity of spirit by emphasising that time and time again, than make a real effort to influence Alan away from his current point of view through engaging with his concerns.

I don't propose to get into a heated debate - but here are some thoughts on how the two could have a discussion which might have the beneficial result.]

Message to Tom.
Think of yourself as a lawyer - maybe one day you will be. Persuasion is not achieved by saying "I'm right and you are wrong". Look at how Sayeeda Warsi put across the argument last night with humour.

First - however much you detest Alan's behaviour in voting BNP, you have to try and establish some 'common ground' with him. If you are not able or willing to do this, you may have to concede that you are not able to influence him to change his mind. Examples of this could be..

- Old people dying of cold. I'm sure that neither of you think this is a good thing.
- The state of the NHS. I'm sure that you both agree that it could do with improvement.
- The fact that in the Second World War Britain united to defeat Germany.

What you may disagree about are the causes and solutions to problems. You could point out the NHS is helped by doctors and nurses of differing races and backgrounds. You may need to debate how migration helps the NHS as well as discuss the pressures it puts on it. And discuss how the incoming people from, say, Poland contribute taxes that pay for old age pensions. There are problems of fuel poverty caused by rising gas prices which are exacerbated by privatised utilities that are not necessarily linked to people's race - black people can die of cold just as easily.

Tom also needs to understand that his perfectly reasonable stance on the need to eliminate racism [to show it 'zero tolerance'] can come across as a religious belief not requiring explanation or justification and is not to be questioned lest one be excommunicated. Well I would suggest that it is worth spending some time going from first principles on this - explaining that surely he wouldn't refuse treatment from a doctor or nurse based on skin colour, to see the irrationality in it.

And discussing in an open and honest way how some people may know who are white can be less than well-behaved when drunk [as an example] in a way most young people of whatever colour can be from time to time - it is down to youthful behaviour which is not related to skin colour.

Of course Alan may not see it that way to begin with - and indeed there are wider issues about the education system which may need to be covered. But that starting down the road of making decisions on skin colour may not seem damaging to Alan in the short term - but one may not be able to stop the bandwagon when it gains a dangerous momentum to the kind of world the British went to war to avoid.

Message To Alan.
I think you need to try and explain to Tom clearly what your real concerns are, and why you think the BNP are the answer to them, so that Tom can see your viewpoint, and understand what problems you really need solved.

If you think the scale of immigration is a problem, emphasise that it is the number and not people's colour which is a concern. Maybe talk about how nightclubs have to maintain a check on numbers as part of their fire regulations which is a separate issue from checking people's appearance on the way in [ "You cannot come in here wearing jeans and trainers.."]

You could suggest to Tom that he is wrong in saying you see yourself as an 'oppressed minority' - but you have a concern that the voice of the minority of very elderly people who don't have enough money to pay their heating bills is not being heard, and that this is what is troubling you.

Maybe the quicker solution to that problem is to lobby the current party in power, rather than pin hopes to a party which is not going to be in Government, but is seen more as a lobby group.

Perhaps you have a concern about the level of interference and control by the EU. There are some people who voted for UKIP without knowing all their policy points but who, for example, felt they were going to help to 'Keep the Pound'. It is worth mentioning that people can protest or vote tactically because, for example, at frustration that all the parties have similar policies on say a 'Lisbon referendum'.

You could try and put the ball in Tom's court by saying "I want a better NHS, a better deal for the elderly, and to have control on the numbers of people migrating decided at national level - how do you think that could best be achieved ?"

And explain what you mean by Britishness. It is different for different people. Welshness and Scottishness conjures up different things for different people. People in Yorkshire may relate to their county more than their country. So Tom may just think that 'British-ness' is too big an umbrella for us to squeeze under. But you may think it is about the fair play, unity of purpose and belief in the common good which helped to bring Allies to our side when we needed to win two World Wars.

You may need to understand that with the way history is taught now, the younger generation can see history as 'black and white' without time for the experience of the teachers to show teach the 'shades of grey'. And you should ask him to explain properly the meaning and activity lying beneath the quick cliche of a slogan like 'hope not hate' and what are the activities he and others are involved with to make it a reality.
The Beach 4:05pm on 23 Oct 2009 Grab a cup of tea and spend 3 minutes watching this Audio Slideshow which Martha Kearney narrates - it will be the best thing you do today.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8321463.stm

If only he could accompany Hugh Sykes on some of his visits.
The BNP on Question Time. 3:02pm on 23 Oct 2009 Check out this assessment by, among others, Clarence Mitchell ex of the BBC.

http://www.prweek.com/uk/news/947591/BNP-leader-Nick-Griffith-defensive-evasive-flustered-Question-Time/

Can't you just read between the lines at the subtext here.. "If only he'd hire some of us PR gurus to develop a communication strategy and sign up for some 'media training' we could yet make him a 'saleable commodity' "

I'm guessing Burson 'Bhopal' Marsteller are licking their lips at the very thought while thinking "There are no bad products, only poor marketing.."
The Beach 12:13pm on 23 Oct 2009 lucien - will have to wait until after Darling has stopped waffling.

http://www.performingartistes.co.uk/artistes/813/nils-blythe.htm

But maybe he is looking to fall back on his thespian rather than singing skills ??

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