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pennsyltucky

Listed below are comments made by pennsyltucky between Wednesday, 14th May 2008 and Monday, 2nd June 2008.

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A high price for Serbia's master of spin 02:35am on 02 Jun 2008 Yeshalom (sorry about the spelling):

Are you saying that the Czechs and Poles shared equal guilt for the fate of the Germans of Silesia and Sudetenland because those Germans, a majority that of them, chose a criminal ideology and faced retribution at the hands of their neighbors-victims?

Mind you, the media model was drastically different in those days; everyone in YU had a satellite dish and access to outside news, Serbs included. In 1991 they 67% chose the Communist turned Socialist Nationalist (or, National-Socialist if you will) Slobodan Milosevic, and 27% chose Vojislav "We will dig the Croat eyes out with rusty spoons" Seselj.

90% is overwhelming and one sided, no matter from what angle you look at it. Chronological order of events, voting trends, etc. places the responsibility on the Serbian government and political elites, period. Belgrade pushed the Serbs into a hysteria and armed them before Tudjman or Alija climbed out of the buttocks of history; indeed, this was the very reason why they went from political nothings to presidents: armed and arming radicalized Serbs demanding everything they denied the Albanians in Kosovo, and more.

As for war crimes, Croatia has and continues to process their own; unfortunately, part of the Erdut Agreement (which allowed for the peaceful reintegration of the Vukovar-Srijem region into Croatia; which demolishes any false arguments of Tudjman or Croatia fighting for "ethnic purity" because the agreement meant that Serbs stayed) was a blanket amnesty of Serbs responsible for war crimes. And again, it was Babic, Martic, and the fantasy government of the fascist "Krajina" that ordered a Serb evacuation to "RS", not the Croatian Army or Tudjman, and it was the Serbs that refused any negotiations because the "right of all refugees to return to their pre-war homes" clause was too "fascistic" to bear. I have never and will never claim that Croats were angels in the last war, but, compared to the YPA, Army SRK, Army RS, and the hodge podge of ultra nationalists, junkies, alcoholics, and conscripted prisoners that the Republic of Serbia was sending as reinforcements, the Croatian Army, which was still forming as a cohesive fighting force with command and control and a uniform code of justice, etc., do look like angels. Neither the Croats or Muslims had dozens of rape camps or concentration camps; brutal conditions, yes, but not concentration camps and rape camps, which the Serbs had in abundance, and with the blessing of the government who were voted for by the Serbian people (because Croats and Muslims were "legally" banned from voting in the "Serbian Republic of Krajina" and in the "Republika Srpska").

I denounce all radicalism, yes, but I do realize when victims turn to radicalism in response to becoming victims it is far different from those who have absolute power decide to radicalise during a time of peace and relative prosperity and stability and vicitimize people.

Moral relativisation is not a good thing; it prevents an airing of the facts and a true catharsis, and road to future peaceful coexistance.
Serbian vote exposes deep rift 00:18am on 29 May 2008 Intesting note on the article:

"Pro-European" Vuk Draskovic was one of the most vociferous hate mongers out of Serbia prior to the war, was an open and unapologetic advocate of an ethnically pure "Greater Serbia" encompassing all of Bosnia Herzegovina and a "mere" 2/3 of Croatia, and organized paramilitaries for the Croatian and BH wars.

His political self-reinvention is amazing, without precedent in European politics really, but it is not very convincing.

The only political party in Serbia, I repeat, only political party in Serbia that was oppossed to the Greater Serbian ideology and wars of aggression (something the Communist unitarists and Fascists in Serbia have held in common since Tito's death; hence their continued cooperation) from the beginning out of principle (not out of convenience) was the LDP. They poll at 5%, yes, 5%.

Milosevic was overthrown not because of his ethnic cleansing and killing orgy in Kosovo (let alone the his oversight of Serb paramilitary, terrorist, and military genocides in Croatia and Bosnia Herzegovina) but because of Operation Horseshoe's failure: Serbia's fourth lost war in ten years.

The only way there will ever be any change in Serbia is if they are forced to face their shameful recent past. A post WWII Germany-like catharsis is needed in Serbia; otherwise, when the moment arises, Serbia will begin where Milosevic left off (again).

With the single most popular politican in Serbia the author of "Bijeljina is Serbia Too" (Bijeljina is in the Republic of Bosnia Herzegovina), the outlook is grim, not "interesting."
Serbia's nationalists take a knock 11:51pm on 28 May 2008 Question:

Why was my post removed if I was citing the published texts of the Serbian Radical Party leadership (i.e., Vojislav "We will dig the Croats' eyes out with rusty spoons" Seselj and Tomislav "And Bijeljina is Serbia" Nikolic)? The inflammatory titles, however offensive, are relevant for the discussion since they are a crucial piece of evidence of the not ultra-nationalist, but openly racist and fascist agenda of the Serbian Radical Party. My post citing the titles should be restored. This is suppression of evidence relevant towards the blog discussion.
Serbia's nationalists take a knock 5:26pm on 26 May 2008 #38

I take it you were never provided the entire statement by Tudjman.

Reporter: Rhetorically "Are you glad your wife is not Serb or Jewish?"

Tudjman: "I am glad my wife is neither Serb nor Jewish, because she could have perished in an Ustasha camp."

That puts a whole new light on the Politika and RTL misquote of Tudjman; which has become, unfortunately, an accepted myth in Western media and historiography.

As to printing WWII Ustasha collaborationists on Croatia's currency: false. I happen to collect currencies, and I have the Croatian Dinar and the Croatian Kuna (which was used in the middle-ages).

But your "rationale" is as follows: because of PERCIEVED fears (created by Milosevic's hysterical propaganda) of the WWII Ustashe after Tudjman's election victory (which was by a hair, not like the overwhelming victory Milosevic had with 67%, the Serbs had a right to "rebel" (i.e., ethnically cleanse all Croatians and non-Serbs, loot and burn their homes, apartments, businesses, etc., ban them from ever returning, and attack Croatia daily for five years).

Well, PRECEDING TUDJMAN (actually, the sole reason Tudjman ever could have won considering his non-status in Croatian politics), was a hysterical propaganda campaign by Serb and Federal media against Croats and Croatia, since 1985; "meetings of truth" 1987-1991 where Serbs, in addition to communist regalia and centralist/unitarist slogans, were brandishing WWII Nazi (and Ustasha) collaborationist Chetnik regalia and Slogans, open discussions of carving up Croatia territorially by Serbia's parliament, Serbs in the Federal government, and Serbian Communist Party of Croatia members, "spontaneous gatherings of the people," etc. etc. So Croatian fears are less important?

As for the language debate; I agree, they are basically the same language. Where the conflict arises from is that the Serb ultranationalists and Yugoslav communists centralist unitarists insist that it is either Serbian, or Serbo-Croatian; but never (God forbid) Croatian, or Croato-Serbian. This is cultural imperialism and chauvinism, and also, idiocy. By common consent, Croatia's literary tradition is richer and has been longer. Croatia preceded Serbia as a Kingdom: Croatia's Kingdom rose in 925 (it was a Duchy since 676), Serbia, as a Kingdom, arose in 1180. Croatia's language was codified a full hundred years before Serbia's. While they are similar, why insist that it is either one or the other (which is what the Yugoslav regime did), why if the Serbian variant is enforced by the Federal Government, it is multi-cultural and beautiful and socialism in action; while if the Croatian variant is pushed, it is, and I quote, "linguistic genocide"?

See my previous post above; your response with a misquote, a blatant falshood and an appeal to ignorance do not address any of the facts I provided.

Serbia needs a catharsis; enough excuses.
A high price for Serbia's master of spin 5:08pm on 26 May 2008 I re-edited this to ensure that there is nothing that is not part of the public historical record. It is interesting how "Lt. Rinas" attacks me personally in another thread, but does not get his post removed; when I retort in the same mannor, then I get removed. Lets try this again:

In regards to comment #44; you seem to have missed most of the relevant events of 1985-1996 in regards to Croatia.

The (open that is) war in Croatia started in the spring of 1991, and ended in
the summer of 1995; it was not from 1993-1995. Here are the relevant events:

a) Tito dies
b) 1985 the Serbian Acadamy of Arts and Sciences "Memorandum," the Serb
academia's own Mein Kampf, is published in the Serb press, and Yugoslav press
(which was controlled by Serbs by and large in all of the republics; this is a statistical fact). It is
nothing more than a piece of hate literature with no valid points or even facts.
c) The Socialist Serb Republic and Federalstate apparatus' begin a hysterical anti-Albanian, anti-Croatian,
and anti-Slovenian campaign; it still continues to this day (see Politika OPEDS; since there really is not much hard news, but OPEDS passing as "hard news" framing events to reinforce the "the entire world is part of an anti-Serbian conspiracy" theory pushed by the Yugoslav Communsts and Serb neo-fascist ultra-nationalists, SRP).
d) 1987: Milosevic's rise; with money embezzled by Milosevic from Federal funds,
he organizes "meetings of truth" where Serbian communist party members give
speeches in Croatia, BH, Macedonia, Montenegro, and Slovenia about how the
Serbs, 46% of Yugoslavia's population but 60% of the YPA officer Corps, 59% of
the Yugoslav Communist party and Federal government, are "endangered" even
though the Belgrade-loyal Republican communist parties are in power, there is no
free press, no non-communist political parties, and all non-Serbs are terrified.
One must note that it was at these communist party meetings, that songs, flags,
caps, and slogans of WWII Serb nazi collaborationists were in abundance; because
the goal of the Communists and neo-Fascists in Serbia and in the Serb community
was the same: the centralization of the state and the absolute suppression of
logic and democracy and a continued cultural and territorial "Serbianization" of Yugoslavia.
e) 1988 Serbs, a 12% minority in the then socialist republic of Croatia, are 7
out of 8 editors of the major newspapers, 47.5% of the Croatian Communist party
(in fact the president of Croatia's communist party was Serb), which translated
into industry, management, and business control (neo-appartheid rule anyone), 80% of
the Territorial Defense/YPA and 70% of the police in the Socialist Republic of
Croatia at this time, begin recieving arms from the YPA, Serbian State Security
Services, and Yugoslav Military Intelligence; there were no political parties in
Croatia at this time, and the Serb media quisically asked what would happen
after the "Croatian Silence." It was after all of this became public, that
non-Communist, democratic Croatian political parties formed.
f) Summer of 1989-Spring of 1991; Serb ultranationalists in Croatia, armed to
the teeth, begin acts of violence and "soft" ethnic cleansing, in what is known
as the "log revolution." It is during this time that a non-Communist party
coalition wins the Croatian government. The bulk of their support comes from Croat refugees from Serb paramilitary controlled areas, tens of thousands of them already, and their families.
g) Spring 1991; ultranationalist Serb terrorists and paramilitaries begin
widespread open ethnic cleansing of non-Serbs (and democratic oriented Serbs) in
Croatia, attack Croatian villages. The YPA, which armed the Serbs and which is
loyal to Milosevic (who, along with his coalition partner and open fascist
(together in 1990-1991 they had merely 94% of Serbia backing them in the
elections), steps in to "separate the warring factions" (i.e., consolidate the
fascist paramilitary's ethnic cleansing and genocide campaign). It must be noted
that the "endangered Serbs" who were "discriminated against" according to
Milosevic's media, seemed to miss the swearing in of Milanka Opacic, a Croatian
Serb, as the first President of Croatia's parliament. Indeed, the "endangered
Serbs" seemed to miss the fact that half of Croatia's Serbs did not choose
Milosevic's Communist unitarism or Seselj's fascism, but embraced Croatia's
vibrant new and free multi-party democracy. 6% of Croatia's soldiers who fought for democracy and European integration were Serb during the
war. This is a cultural and socio-economic phenomena; the Serbs from the rural areas by and large supported Milosevic and his maniacs, while the Serbs from the cities and urban areas stayed loyal to Croatia and democratic change.
h) 1991-1995; Croatian Serb paramilitaries and terrorists, backed and operating
under the command of and with units of the YPA and Serbian National Guard,
ethnically cleanse over 250,000 Croats and non-Serbs, and publicly and "legally"
ban them from ever returning from their ancestral homes, kill over 10,000
civlians, maim over 30,000, torch, loot, and destroy over 30,000 homes, and
destroy 1/3 of industry and infrastructure, and end the lucrative tourist
industry. Not a single investigation was ever started for any warcrimes against
Croats or non-Serbs; indeed, Babic, one of the Serb ringleaders, admitted at the Hague that of the 400 elderly Croatian civlians slaughtered by his police, none
recieved a proper investigation, because no papers were filed to investigate. It was "business as usual" in the "Krajina"
i) Radical Serbs in the so-called "Krajina" turn down the Z-4 agreement, which
would have given them their defacto fantasy state which was built on ethnic cleansing and genocide, on the grounds that refugee
returns of non-Serbs was unacceptable and "fascistic."
j) Croatia in the summer of 1995 was on the verge of economic collapse because
of it being split in two, with 1/8 of its population as refugees, with its
villages, towns, and cities being attacked via artillery, sniper fire, mortar
fire, and infantry attacks, decides that after Z-4, and the open and public
threat of "General" Ratko Mladic to make Srebrenica look like "a joke" compared
to what he and the Bosnian Serb and Croatian Serb paramilitary forces were going
to do to the 240,000 Bosniaks in the Bihac pocket, that enough was enough and
Serbia's genocidal Greater Serbia project had to be defeated, and Croatia launched
Operation Storm, which effectively ended the war and forced a peace agreement.

The Croatian Serbs, like the Sudeten and Silesian Germans, threw their lot with the wrong
side for all of the wrong reasons, and lost. But, contrary to Sudeten and Silesian Germans, were not banned
from returning, and are returning.

The Serb political party is now in a coalition government with Tudjman's HDZ.
This could have happened in 1991. Its high time Serbs open their eyes to the
lies and propaganda their intellectual, military, political, and (sadly and
shamefully) church leaders (the Serbian Orthodox Patriarch for Croatia, Slovenia, and Northern Italy declared Milosevic the new "Saint Sava," and told Croatian Serbs that they had to fight with Milosevic in his "Holy war" against the "decadant West") have been filling them with over the past decade and
a half. The onus of the start and duration of the war, in addition to
responsibility for 90% of attrocities committed, lies with the Serb voters and
the Serb forces those voters choices forced to fight for Milosevic's
schitzophrenic power-gamble. Until Serbs have a catharsis, the Balkans will be a
very troubled place.

I suggest readers of this blog purchase Prime Time Crime (Kemal Kurpasic), Yugoslavia Death of a Nation (BBC Book and Documentary; Laura Silber and Allan Little), Croatia, a Nation Forged in War (Marcus Tanner), Forging War (Mark Thompson), Serbia's Secret War (Phillip Cohen), The Myth of Ethnic War (Philip Gagnon), Rape Warfare (Beverly Allan) and draw your conclusion. The chronological order of events, voting trends, and refugee and casualty statistics says it all.
A high price for Serbia's master of spin 04:53am on 22 May 2008 #53:

Yugoslavia, if it had any value, would not have crumbled like a house of cards. The first Yugoslavia was a proto-fascist dictatorship that terrorized non-Serbs and democrats, engaged in cultural imperialism, and robbed the people blind. The second Yugoslavia was a Communist dicatorship (at times a "soft" dictatorship), that played the USSR and West off of each other for funds, and, once those funds ran out, crumbled. Because a healthy nation, with any validity, human rights, transparent press, or domestic and international legitimacy, does not give rise to a Milosevic, who rose using the hate-speech of the Serb dominated press to play on Serb fears (more paranoia than legitimate fears), and chauvinism. Only in banana states like Yugoslavia do Milosevic's come to power, and only people brainwashed by years of hysterical propaganda, defend those failed states and criminal ideologies a decade after they fade into oblivion.
Serbia's nationalists take a knock 04:12am on 22 May 2008 To maybe666's comment "The corrupt devil aptly used your ethnic animosities as a cover and a pretext to meddle in former Yugoslavia's affairs solely to overthrow socialist system of government!"

It was Slobodan Milosevic, not the BBC, Guardian, Der Speigel, Washington Post, New York Times, El Pais, or Le Figaro or the countries they reside in that stoked ethnic animosities in the former Yugoslavia, it was Slobodan Milosevic and Serbia's government, intellectual, and media apparatus. And the Serbs rewarded him with over a decade of power for his "job." Milosevic and greater Serbian nationalism destroyed Yugoslavia, not the West. The West simply regurgitated Milosevic's propaganda (and continues to do so) to minimalize the responsibility of Serbia with false analogies and guilt equivocations.

BTW, all of Western Europe are Socialist states, Democratic Socialist states. I presume you are agitating on behalf of Communist Socialist states. Communist Socialist states were toppled by the majority will of the people in Eastern Europe (the exceptions being the Serbs, Russians, Belorussians, and Moldavians). All are failed or failing states teetering towards fascism (case and point, Serbia). If you point to China as "evidence" of the wonders of Communist Socialism, look at a) Their human rights b) Media freedom c) Han cultural imperialism d) Capitalistic system controlled by the Communist party elites. In reality, China is a Han fascist empire in practice.
Serbia's nationalists take a knock 00:55am on 21 May 2008 Kristi Loves:
Your ad hominem attack is ridiculous and unfounded, first and foremost. Second, Ustashas ethnically cleansed Serbs, as Chetnicks ethnically cleansed Croats, Bosniaks, and Albanians. What is the difference between Thompson and say, Bajaga “Krajina Serbs, where will we go to slaughter, will we slaughter the Croats, or the Muslims; there will be slaughter, there will be slaughter, there will be rape, either Croats, either Croats, or the Muslims” Mali Knindja? Or Ceca Raznjatovic filling stadiums, singing ballads to her junkie street hoodlum turned Communist assassin, turned mafia-state paramilitary leader and genocide and ethnic cleansing operational commander husband Zeljko Raznjatovic Arkan? I see no difference between any of the aforementioned.
You attribute the acts of a few Croatian terrorists to the entire Croatian people (fallacy of composition), breaking blog rules by posting a link of course, with a link to a less than “reliable” source. Why don’t you break blog rules and post a link to the names of Croatian democratic activists liquidated by the Serb dominated UDBa, Yugoslavia’s Communist secret police, in Western Europe and North America from 1951 to 1991? Why link to PBS’s Srebrenica site and documentary? Why no citing of the New York Times article which reported that Serb forces were responsible for 90% of the atrocities committed in the Balkans in the 1990s? Don’t collectively attribute minority actions/reactions to the majority. That is racism.
I read and watch all sorts of news sources, do my research, and draw my conclusion; it is quite obvious you don’t.
Serbia's nationalists take a knock 00:43am on 21 May 2008 Lt. Rinas:
Your selective memory needs to be less selective. I received all A’s in my undergraduate and graduate history courses, and my concentration was Southeastern Europe ; - ) As for your Milosevic Propaganda Apparatus “History 101”:
1) Vojislav Seselj was named “Vojvoda Cetnickog Pokreta” by the war-criminal at large, Bishop Momcilo Djujic, in 1991 (Djujic was the leader of the genocidal fascist Chetnik movement in the Lika and Dalmatia regions of Croatia during WWII; he collaborated with not only the Italians and Germans, but also the Croatian Ustashas: he was treated in the Maksimir Military Hospital in Zagreb in December 1944 after being wounded in combat during the battle for Knin, where he was in command of over 1,500 Ustashas along with appx. 3,000 Chetniks). As for Nikola Pasic, he was an anti-democratic ultra-nationalist whose version of “unification” was nothing more than an imperialist occupation. His option won out, and the first Serbian imperial program began under the trappings of legality; a majority of Croatia’s industry was literally removed and shipped to Serbia, conversions to Serbian Orthodoxy was encouraged by law (because Catholics, Muslims, Protestants, and Jews were legally a lower caste in the eyes of the state) with land incentives to converts (reminiscent of the Ottoman occupation), Croatia’s parliament was banned, free press was banned, and Serb gendarmes fired into an unarmed crowd of Croatian demonstrators protesting the illegal occupation that was brought upon them by military force and by the suppression of a national referendum. Of course, this was just the beginning, Croatia’s most popular politician, Stjepan Radic, was assassinated in the Belgrade Parliament in 1927 by Punisa Racic (also a Radical) to cheers by Serb PM’s. The event was showered with praise by the government press (there was no free press). It was, as Svetozar Pribicevic, a Serb democrat and true humanist, a “shot against the Croatian people.”
2) Indeed, innocent until proven guilty, just as Julius Streicher was. Streicher was hung.
3) You argue a false dilemma, in addition to making an absurd unsubstantiated claim. Croatia did not expel all Serbs from Croatia (indeed, half of Croatia’s Serbs did not support the Milosevic-Seselj-Martic-Babic joint criminal enterprise, were on democratic Croatia’s territory, and are still there), but Serbs in areas of Croatia that they controlled (with “Yugoslav” National Army, later Army of “Yugoslavia” command, control, support, funding, arms, manpower, and intelligence) did ethnically cleanse 99.5% of ethnic Croats and non-Serbs; indeed the indictment (which was supported by the guilty verdict) of Babic and Martic mentions that Croatians and non-Serbs fell to .05% of their pre-war population in the Milosevic puppet-states of “Autonomous Serbian Districts.” You then switch to a red herring: the Serbs in “Krajina” a) Ethnically cleansed 99.05% of non-Serbs and permanently banned their return b) Attacked Croatia daily c) Demolished 1/3 of Croatia’s industry, infrastructure, and ended Croatia’s lucrative tourist industry d)Were threatening that Croatia would be “Everything north of Zagreb’s Cathedral.” As for your misquotes, you selectively omit the Serbian Radical Party leader, Vojislav Seselj’s various hate-speeches, including the infamous “We will dig the Croats’ eyes out with rusty spoons” speech in front of a crowd of 3,000 in Rakovica, a suburb of Belgrade; lest we forget Milosevic’s “We do not rule out force in the pursuit of our goals.” In addition to the preceding 5 years of hysterical state-run anti-Croatian (and anti-Bosnian/anti-Albanian) propaganda, Serbian government sponsored and funded (with funds embezzled from the Federal budget by Milosevic, of course) “meetings of truth” from 1988 to open Serb aggression, the illegal arming of radicalized (by state, Communist party, and shamefully, Serbian Orthodox Church propaganda) Serbs in the then Socialist Republic of Croatia a full year before any non-Communist Croatian political party formed, under the auspices of Serbs being “endangered,” during a time when Milosevic was centralizing Yugoslavia, and Serbs in the Socialist Republic of Croatia were 47.5% of the Communist Party of Croatia, 70% of the Police and 80% of the military stationed there, even though Serbs were less than 12% of Croatia’s population (they are six percent today). Lest we forget the ethnic cleansing of 250,000 (and banning of their return) Croats and non-Serbs, 10,000 civilians killed by Serb forces (appx. 400 elderly Croats from 1992 to the fall of “Krajina;” something “President” Babic admitted that Serbs “never investigated”), and the maiming of 30,000 Croatian civilians by bombs. As both Milan Babic and Milan Martic admitted to, they ordered the complete withdrawal of all Serb military, police, and civilians from the genocidal para-state of “Krajina.”
4) The comment you attribute to Tudjman was actually Stipe Mesic, who’s wife was and remains a Croatian Serb; the comment, which you cited out of context, was in the context of Serb militarism and aggression (hence rubber boots). You forget that Sime Djodan was pushed to the side by Tudjman because of his extremism (indeed, that very idiotic statement); as you forget that Vojislav Seselj told Serbs repeatedly at the Milosevic organized “meetings of truth” (years before Tudjman or Djodan were on the political scene) in addition to stating on national Yugoslav television in the Serbian parliament, that “Serbia’s western border will be Karlobag, Karlovac, and Virovitica;” basically, over 80 percent of Croatia and all of Bosnia Herzegovina. He won 27% of the Serb vote; Milosevic took 67%, which made 94% of voting Serbs in 1990-1992 pro-war and genocide (this of course is due to the state, political, media, and church propaganda). Lest we forget Dobrica Cosic’s (Serbian Acadamy of Arts and Sciences) offering of Croatia’s Istra and Dalmatia regions to Italy in 1986 in Il Tempo magazine (Italy). You mention the alleged “extreme Ustasha emigration and weapon supplying of Croatian paramilitary,” yet forget to mention the extreme Chetnik emigration and weapon supplying of Serb paramilitaries in Croatia, extremist WWII Nazi, Italian, and Ustasha collaborationist “blessing” of Vojislav “We will dig the Croats’ eyes out with rusty spoons” Seselj as the “Military Leader” of the new Chetniks, or the JNA, SDB Serbia, and KOS arming of Serbs in Croatia PRIOR to any non-communist parties in Croatia even forming, during the “Croatian Silence” which continued even 3 years into Milosevic’s anti-Croatian/anti-Slovenian/anti-Bosniak/anti-Albanian hate-speech and propaganda jihad. I certainly do not rule out that there were radicals in Croatia, but they polled around 7%, not 94%, as Milosevic and Seselj did combined in Serbia. Your “two to tango” argument is flawed; applying that “logic,” the Poles and Czechs are equally as guilty as the Germans during WWII. That is perverse. While the Serbs of Croatia acted just like Sudeten Germans (actually, worse), Croatia has magmanimously amnestied them and allowed/allows/encourages their return. Question, how many ethnic and political Croats served in Serbia’s parliament from 1989 until 2000? Also, Serbs aren’t the only ethnic group with problems returning, tens of thousands of Croats are still awaiting their return as well. The problem is the cost of the war on the economy and infrastructure, not political goodwill, as I pointed out. As for Croatia’s military being on the verge of breaking down, that is laughable. The only military that faced and actually had a breakdown was the Yugoslav Peoples Army and its proxy forces (which remained under its central command throughout the wars) in Croatia and Bosnia Herzegovina; that’s why Milosevic finally agreed to the UNPA in Croatia in 1992, because the losses of the YPA and the Serb paramilitaries were catastrophic and Croatia did not “fall in two weeks,” as the YPA Generals and Milosevic himself promised.
5) Greater Serbia and Greater Albania and Greater Croatia are illegitimate ultra-nationalist perversions/fantasies with no merit; Serbia actively pursued it via political and military means (in fact, Greater Serbia was and remains a constant theme of Seselj’s schizophrenic political rants). Are you insinuating that Kosovo will join Albania? You need to study the history of Albanians, as well as the Geg and Tosk rivalry. As for the parallel government; while you justify it in Croatia, you denounce it in Kosovo. Interesting. The reason the Albanians formed parallel institutions might have to do with the fact that after Milosevic’s crackdown, Albanians were purged from the police, civil service, media, and academia in Kosovo because they were Albanian (their “crime”)and replaced by Serbs. BTW, I was personally against Kosovo’s independence but Serb obstinance actually led to Kosovo’s independence. That is a reality.
6) Every state in continental Europe should think about WWII collaboration, because basically every European state had a collaboration regime and or group, Serbia and Croatia included, to the shame of both peoples. However, as the radical party polling shows, a good number of Serbs still would like to see an ethnically pure greater Serbia, while in Croatia the far right has a single representative in Croatia’s parliament.
The “True Facts” Section:
1) You may believe that, but I don’t. However, in both rhetoric and practice, the Serbs during Operation Storm did withdraw to Croatia; as did many Serbs before Tudjman was elected, because of Milosevic’s regime’s venomous propaganda, the violent actions of Serb radicals armed by the “defenders of Yugoslav socialism,” the Yugoslav People’s Army, and the reaction by Croatian radicals (which was a drop in the bucket compared to the aforementioned, it must be said) to Serb violence. It was the Serbs who, both in word and practice, pushed the “wherever there is a Serb grave, that is Serbia” and forced it down Croatia’s throat via bombs. Again, only half of Croatia’s Serbs did this; the other half was loyal to Croatia and logic and democratic change.
2) Responsibility comes from Milosevic’s propaganda apparatus, illegal centralization (and outright robbery of federal funds), illegal arming of Serb paramilitaries during a time of peace and Serb dominance in Federal and Republic (Croatia, Bosnia Herzegovina, where they were minorities) institutions outside of Serbia, the Rampart Plan which outlined the genocide and ethnic cleansing by Serb forces (authored by Serb General officers in the early 1980s, before Milosevic), and complicity and direct responsibility for 90% of war crimes committed in the Balkans between 1990 and 1999. The Greater Serbia ideology and politics that infected Serbia is responsible; once Serbs say this and distance themselves from this real change and reconciliation is possible.
3) It was not Serbia that destroyed the South Slav/Yugoslav idea (which was the intellectual nugget of Croatian intellectuals, FYI), but individual criminals and members of criminal ideological movements which mobilized masses via propaganda and threats and acts of violence Punisa Racic, Pasic, Petar Zivkovic, “King” Peter, Pavelic, Djujic, Djurisic, Mihajlovic, Tito, Milosevic, Seselj….
Serbia's nationalists take a knock 11:27pm on 14 May 2008 I am glad that the Radical Party (which traces its roots to the WWII Nazi-collaborationist Chetnik movement) lost the election; but we must not lose sight of the reality of Serbia's current political culture. The Serbian Radical Party makes the BNP and NDP look moderate, considering that the former do not openly claim neighboring states territory, nor are many their members responsible for war crimes, nor do any of their party members justify war crimes (at least openly).
Here we have a European state where nearly 30 percent of the population voted for a party of ultra-nationalists still being led by a war criminal (Vojislav Seselj) in absentia (The Hague War Crimes Tribunal). There is an elephant in the closet over in Serbia and it is the Serbian Radical Party. White glove treatment of irrational and unreasonable politics only leads to more obstinacy; the Milosevic era is proof positive of that.
I think the Tadic victory is a step in the right direction, but Serbia needs a reality check, and they need to come to terms with their past. Serbia should not and cannot get any special treatment and they should have the same exact standards as Croatia has had to for EU accession talks, no exceptions (therefore, the same extra criteria Croatia had to meet, must be met by Serbia, point for point, including the unconditional surrender of all indicted war criminals).
At the end of the day, the political and media establishment of the Republic of Serbia was the main reason for the violent break-up of Yugoslavia. Beginning with Milosevic's hysterical (and unfortunately, ongoing)campaign in 1987; systematic violations of the FROY Constitution; neo-apartheid rule of Kosovo; illegal/unconstitutional rescinding of Vojvodina/Kosovo's autonomy and denying Albanians basic civil rights (while simultaneously demanding more rights for Serbs in Croatia as well as 1/3 of Croatia and all of Bosnia Herzegovina even though they were a physical minority in 3/4 of the territories they claimed in both states); Milosevic's illegal arming of Serb paramilitaries in Croatia a full year before any non-communist political parties even formed (followed in Bosnia Herzegovina in 1990), etc. Lest not forget Serbs' (by that I mean Serb military and paramilitary forces) responsibility for over 90% of the atrocities in the former Yugoslavia.
The fact remains that only the Liberal Democratic Party has actually distanced itself politically and openly denounced from Milosevic's regime (nearly every single other party backed Milosevic until he capitulated to NATO over Kosovo) and the genocidal "Greater Serbia" ideology. They polled around 5%. I highly doubt anyone on the Continent would have considered negotiating EC treaties with Germany if the allies stopped at the Rhine and Hiter was overthrown by his fellow Nazis, and Germany was spared invasion, but there was no official break with or apology for the "Grossdeutchland" ideology and all of the crimes committed in its name by the German government.
I think that Serbia needs to come to terms with its past, as Germany was forced to, and it needs to apologize to its neighbors (victims) before any negotiations can begin. That is when Serb accession to the EU would be just, and acceptable to Southeastern Europe.
I also take issue with jaksap's comment above. In Croatia half of the Serb minority threw its lot in with Milosevic and ethnically cleansed over 250,000 Croats and non-Serbs from their ancestral homes (and "legally" banned their return), killed 10,000 civilians, maimed another 30,000, and raised well over 20,000 homes. After all of this, and Croatia's military victory, the Serbs could have faced the same fate as Sudeten or Prussian Germans in Poland: the right of no return let alone compensation. But Croatia magnanimously granted a blanket amnesty to Serbs who took part in Milosevic's aggression, and Serbs are returning, slowly yes, but surely. The Serbs' cultural institutions in Croatia are not funded by Serbian government or émigré groups, but by the Croatian government. The largest Serb political party, SDSS, is a key player
in the current coalition government, as it has been for nearly a decade. In fact, the first president of Croatia's first Sabor (Parliament) was an ethnic Serb, Milanka Opacic; who is still a major politician in Croatia. Croatia's problem, i.e., the problem for Croatians and Serbs who were in or on the border with former war zones, is that the war that Serbia waged by Milosevic destroyed 1/3 of all industry and infrastructure, and finances, not political policy or lack of goodwill, has hindered refugee returns in Croatia. Hopefully EU membership will encourage investment in Croatia, and the government can divert more funds to refugee returns and to infrastructure modernization. Once Croatia gets into the EU, Croatian Serbs' will solidify their political rights even further.
There has been no catharsis in Serbia as there was in Germany after WWII: the Radical Party's showing proves this. Serbia's government and the European Union need to stop dancing around the truth and admit Serbia's role as a state entity in a) Inciting hatred during peace b) Arming radicals incited by that hatred during peace c) Waging genocidal aggression in futile dreams of an ethnically pure "Greater Serbia."
That is when Serb accession to the EU will be acceptable and just, and encouraged by Croatia and neighboring states, and a normalization of state and interethnic relations can begin. An entire generation cannot just sweep its pain under the rug. Pretending a problem is not there does not make it go away: Chamberlain and Europe learned this the hard way. Let’s not make that same mistake, yet again.

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