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jovialPTL

Listed below are comments made by jovialPTL between Tuesday, 23rd June 2009 and Sunday, 28th June 2009.

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Bible codes and gay genes 9:03pm on 28 Jun 2009 Since some people are thanking Jim for sharing his story, can I also thank Gay_and_Christian for responding in such detail to what Jim has said. Conservative Christians would be mistaken in believing that Jim's story is the only story. I think those who really want to know what a living, breathing gay person thinks about all of this would be advised to read Gay_and_Christian.
Bible codes and gay genes 7:57pm on 28 Jun 2009 *57 ... Thomas, you are seriously defensive, aren't you? If you think writing a blog post is an over-reaction, you should see what Nolan does when a guest pulls out of a show! He'd announce it to the biggest audience in the country.

I'm still not buying this Evangelical Alliance business either. I was interested to know that EA had sent round an email about this event. EA is a big organisation so it left me wondering why they'd want to associate themselves with this. Then when I read Stephen Cave on here, I couldn't believe it. Protest too much? Tell that to Stephen Cave!

Amazingly, you are now trying to distance Satinover from the Bible Code nonsense. You say he isnt to be confused with the Michael Drosnin, who wrote two sensationalist books defending the theory. Nope, you're right. Satinover is, on the other hand, the author of two non-sensationalist books defending the theory! But Thomas, Thomas ... it's the theory that's the problem, not the tone of the books! The theory is so crazed that no one defending it can hope to be taken seriously. That's why I was astonished that EA were sending round their email. Unless, of course, EA had no idea that Satinover was a Bible Code Theorist. That would make sense, and would be more acceptable than if they DID know who he was. But you're still left with EA publicising a guy they've no idea about. Neither option's a good one.

It's a shame you're signing off, Thomas. I like your exit strategy though - say you're signing off, THEN throw out a lot of complaints, attacks and insinuations, before disappearing. I don't think Steve Cave would regard that as "accountable". Hmmm.
Bible codes and gay genes 4:22pm on 25 Jun 2009 Jims007 I think you might have misunderstood Gus's comments about psychiatrists. I don't think he was saying that psychiatrists are harming gay people, he said that psychiatrists who engage in conversion therapies trying to turn gay people into straight people are doing the harm.
Belfast Hindu community centre is attacked 4:21pm on 25 Jun 2009 Marcus, your comments are simply sectarian. You've made up your mind about Protestants without any personal knowledge of this country. If you were generalising about an ethnic group, we'd call you a racist.
Belfast Hindu community centre is attacked 2:28pm on 25 Jun 2009 Marcus, you have no knowledge of this crime, yet you seem to know already that the youths involved were Protestants. That centre sits on an interface, so the thugs could have been from either Catholic or Protestant side. The police response is being talked about too, but the police may have had very good operational reasons for doing what they did (to avoid drawing attention to the person who made the call). They went into the grounds, examined the area around the building and spoke to the caller on the phone. Best not to condemn what you do not understand, Marcus.
Creationists defend Darwin film 08:53am on 25 Jun 2009 I've a friend in the NI Humanists who tells me they have members who opposed the organisation taking part in gay pride because "homosexuality is unnatural"!! Humanist homophobia exists!
Bible codes and gay genes 10:36pm on 24 Jun 2009 Stephen, what's your problem with the anonymity of posting on blogs? Think of it like secret ballots in electing a new Speaker for Parliament. Sometimes people are more able to speak (or vote) openly with the secrecy than with the openness. Sometimes institutions or political parties (or religious organisations) oppose secret ballots because they have more control over individuals when they are required to make their views known openly.

Blogs are about the exchange of ideas. It's maybe a little too modern an idea for EA, but it seems to be changing the world. Look at how blogs and twitter are changing communication between dissident groups in Iran. There's an online revolution happening!
Bible codes and gay genes 7:17pm on 24 Jun 2009 Read about Evangelical Alliance's expulsion of a Christian gay ministry at this link: http://www.courage.org.uk/articles/ea_courage.shtml
Bible codes and gay genes 7:14pm on 24 Jun 2009 A question for Stephen Cave: Is he now telling us that Evangelical Alliance has no official view on conversion therapies and those Christians who are working to draw gay people into heterosexuality? The Evangelical Alliance, just a few years ago, expelled Jeremy Marks' organisation COURAGE, because it changed its policy on homosexuality from an anti-gay to a pro-gay stance. Has EA now changed it's mind too?
Bible codes and gay genes 1:06pm on 23 Jun 2009 I'm never impressed by people who think I should believe their argument because they have a PhD from some place. If we decided these issues on a head count of PhDs, I've no doubt that creationism would lose, and those arguing that gays are unnatural would be in the minority.

So This guy has a medical degree and a PhD in physics too. What does that prove? Everyone with a PhD could go get a second one in another discipline if they had the time and interest. I'm more impressed by academics who sustain their influence in one field, rather than those who dash around getting extra degrees. I met someone with 17 A Levels once. Three was enough for most of us. The guy with 17 A levels hasn't much to show for them.

Now take Dr Satinover. He's got a part time lecturing job (visiting) at a podunk New York Christian college with a total facult of about a dozen. What contribution has he made to modern physics research? None, but he's got a degree. What contribution has he made to modern psychiatry? He's had patients. That's true of all psychiatrists.

He held down a residency in Yale? Hundreds do. He gave a lecture at harvard in 1975 on psychology and religion, endowed in the name of William James. Come on guys, that's a nice little gig for a day's work, but it's not a Nobel prize.

The leader of the BNP has a degree form cambridge university. Big deal. It doesn't validate his racist politics.

The guy listing Satinover's qualifications has a bigger problem. How do you explain how someone with these qualifications can believe such nonsense about Bible codes? from what I can see of his CV, there's no evidence that he has ever conducted ANY research into the genetics of homosexuality, and yet he writes like he's an expert, simply because he has written a few articles in newspapers and Christian magazines attacking research carried out by others.

The truth is this: Satinover lost it, whatever it was, many years ago. he made a promising start to an academic career in psychiatry, but got bogged down in other issues, became a conspiracy theorist, and allowed his own right-wing politics and hyper-conservative religion to twist his science.

He's not the first well-qualified conspiracy theorist out there. Check out the 9/11 Truth conspiracy theorist; they have even more impressive CVs than Satinover's. They're still wrong. They're still deluded. So is he.

By the way- anyone know why Evangelical Alliance was supporting this visit by Satinover? Surely evangelical leaders should recognize that the bible code business is as nutty as a fruitcake?

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