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NoRashDecisions

Listed below are comments made by NoRashDecisions between Friday, 21st August 2009 and Monday, 24th August 2009.

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Responses to Megrahi release 06:36am on 24 Aug 2009 TheBlameGame #214: '"I get back to my point about hypocrisy. I could refer to many cases where US administrations, from Kennedy through to Clinton, not just Bush, made decisions detrimental to justice and made a mockery of international law."

And I get back to my point. Yes I know that presidents from essentially FDR (when our international involvement really took off) to W have indeed made awful and downright humiliating decisions that were detrimental to the cause of justice and a huge mockery of the rule of law!!! I'm not disputing that for one second!! What I have been trying to say, however, is that no matter how many bad things we have done, indeed no matter how many bad things you have done, those instinces don't make this particular case any less detrimental to the cause of justice and any less of a mockery of international law in the eyes of those who truely believe that this guy was really responsible for the bombing.

Now your point about hypocrisy in particular would in my opinion hold much more weight if Obama were flouting our most cherished ideals and violating our constitution right now while daring to lecture Scotland on how to run their justice system, but as I'm sure you know he has stopped, or is in the process of stopping all the hypocritical measures of the Bush administration.

Of course I know that we have sold, and are selling large amounts of weapons to Libya, which doesn't bode well for our '"Accept democratic rule and we'll work with you in the international comunity" message we have been giving all the dictatorships in the world at least during the Bush years. But this rather unpleasant hypocrisy merely goes to prove the old addage that money really does make the world go around, as cold as it seems.

Regarding the FBI director, I personally don't think it appropriate and wise of him to express his feelings so strongly and so publicly so soon after the event, but he was one of the people who originally helped investigate the bombing back in the early 90s, so perhaps he feels that the release is a slap in the face of his work? I speculate.
Responses to Megrahi release 4:29pm on 22 Aug 2009 ScorpioRicardo #202: '"As he's been released its time to get over this and show how grown up we can all be and try to remember that it wasn't only American citizens that died that night, despite what some of the commentators on here would have us believe."

If that is a sly way of accusing me of suggesting that only Americans were murdered, let me assure you, I never said any such thing!!! I am fully aware of, and feel for the families of, those remaining British and other nationality citizens who were murdered alongside the Americans, but it is a fact, Americans made up the majority of the people killed on that plane, and I was merely pointing that out.

Unlike you and apparently many other Britains, I don't believe that it is OK to murder, much less gleefully welcome, the murder of wholly innocent human beings just so long as they are of a particular nationality. A person is a person is a person.

Jees!! Talk of a lack of "compassion!!"
Responses to Megrahi release 3:09pm on 22 Aug 2009 allmyfault #200: '"Aah, the good ole USA. Hypocrisy like nowhere else in the world."

And don't you forget it!

"Ever since the days of Foster-Dulles (and probably way back to Teddy Roosevelt), whatever is expedient for the US State Department regardless of the bigger picture- they just go ahead and do. Loads of shady deals in the past on terrorism, freedom fighters, military juntas, enemies-of their-enemies for us to remember."

Pst...I have a secret to tell you...all other countries have pursued their own selfish interests as well. We're not the only ones!! Now does that make it anymore right for us to do the things we've done? Of course not!! But don't think for one second that we do it anymore than other countries did when they were enjoying their 15 minats of fame!! We just happen to be enjoying ours now so our greed is just more noticeable.

Incidentally, sometimes when fighteing a large enamy, one must bite the bullit and pretend to be allies with a smaller enamy in order to defeat the larger one. Like what the allies did with Stalin during World War II. Which was a good thing too, because Soviet casualties in fighting the Nazis acounted for 60% of the total amount lost fighting them!
Responses to Megrahi release 00:18am on 22 Aug 2009 oldnat #177. . .

Unfortunately, I regret to inform you that I don't know too much about how the US media views Scotland. But if I had to guess, I'd say that it is a cross between the UK in a different format and another country entirely.

Perhaps once you've learned something during your travels you can report back to me?

Where in the US are you going? For how long?

Enjoy your stay!
Responses to Megrahi release 00:07am on 22 Aug 2009 TheBlameGame #171: '"OK NRD, agree tit-for-tat politics gets us nowhere. What really sticks in the craw is not the reaction which is understandable, more the hypocrisy. A trait which many of our politicians have in common."

You acted in your post #146 as though the reaction (on the part of the government) was not understandable, and that in fact it was an over reaction that was highly immature and uncalled for. Further more you appeared to think that the American government, and the American people were the same thing. So forgive me for responding so pashonitly.

I understand your point about hypocrisy. But here too, you have to be careful. Barack Obama didn't set up Guantanamo Bay. Barack Obama didn't have the bright idea to induce extrordinary rendition. Barack Obama didn't invade Iraq for the oil. George Bush did all those things. So when you say things like '"The US has no right to lecture us on how to run our justice system because it has Guantanamo Bay etc," it implys that our founding fathers practicly initiated it, and that it has always been among the most charished institutions of this country, and obviously everybody knows it wasn't and that it disgusts many Americans!!
Responses to Megrahi release 11:36pm on 21 Aug 2009 john112uk #170. . .

While I don't dare wade into the debate going on between you and oldnat about which annalogy best represents the true UK constitutional set-up, I would like to say that I'm sure Nebraska wouldn't mind the attention at all. They, along with the rest of the nation, have probably been feeling left out since California and Texas tend to get most of it over here.

"Basically people are saying mass murder is OK so long as it's Americans that are killed. If people want to engage in a quasi racist anti American rhetoric then they can't complain when Americans respond (in quite a restrained way)."

Thank you!!! Exactly!! And that is the point that I have been going to great lengths, without (admitedly) much success to explain all along on here! Now keep in mind, that this is in no way meant to imply in any way that I think that all Britains hold this view!!! But it does seem that many do, and I just find it frustrating trying to explain something that in my opinion is so blindingly obvious to people which I feel any adult should be able to reasonably grasp fairly quickly. But anyway. In my post #162 I was actually thanking you for defending me and the rest of my fellow countrymen's rights to express our opinions on this on here without fear of recrimination. I think it was very brave of you. Same with oldnat.
Responses to Megrahi release 10:19pm on 21 Aug 2009 oldnat #165. . .

My apologies!!!! I meant in no way to imply that I thought that Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland were devoid of respectful and empathetic people!!! Of course I think such people exist!! When I said that, I was merely refering to 'john112UK specificly because he said he was from England, and I know how sensitive the issue of devolution is to many of you, and so I was just making sure all my bases were covered so as not to offend anymore people than I apparently already totally unintentionally have. Forgive me, I meant nothing by it. Also, I saw your post at #159, and I wanted to thank you for your support on that as well. It seems that unfortunately (on these forems at least,) people of our mindset are few and hard to come by.

Tom Porter #168. . .

I know how your political system works; in fact, I am very envious of much of it and wish we had it in this country. I was just unsure as to the details of the facts surrounding the issue of devolution and how the four countries that comprise the United Kingdom interact and work with one another and the rest of the world. But thanks very much for the education.
Responses to Megrahi release 7:26pm on 21 Aug 2009 john112UK #151. . .

Thanks for the kind compliments. Its nice to know that the UK (or England rather) isn't entirely devoid of rational, empathetic, and respectful people.

As regards devolution, thanks for your annalogy. It really helped to put things into perspective for me. No I would not like a situation like that, and if that is what you must endure in England then I agree, it is unfair, and must be rectifyed immediately.

Regarding the IRA, I think it despicable that our politicions willingly went along with the public's view of it in the 70s and 80s. They knew better and should have acted on it!!
Responses to Megrahi release 6:56pm on 21 Aug 2009 TheBlameGame #146: '"I've no problem with the US administration expressing their opinion on the decision but their tone is a bit galling when you consider things like the detention without trial or public hearing of British subjects in Guantanamo Bay for several years, with the possibility of a death sentence over their heads. Is that your country's idea of justice?"

I understand. Really I do!! But again I reiterate
the point I made in post 139. I know we have commited all these atrocities. I know we have utterly and irreversably destroyed the lives of countless innocent world citizens all for our own selfish gain. But in my opinion you can throw every single mistake, every slip up, every sin we have commited over our 233 year existance in the face of one who has the courage to publicly express their opinion to many of your countrymen who disagree, and it will still not render their objections baseless, rash, or unsound. Some people believe that the guy murdered their rellitave and think that as a result he should pay for it by serving out his entire prison sentence. Guantanamo Bay, IRA funding, Iranian airliner shoot downs shouldn't, and for those people don't, come into it. I would even go so far as to suggest that a few British rellitaves of the bombing feel that way. I'm sorry, but that's just my opinion.

Now I deplore George W. Bush. I deplore what he stands for. I deplore what he has done to our constitution and our international reputation. And believe me, holding someone indeffinitly without a fair trial with the potencial of the death penalty is certainly not my idea of justice!! Which is why Obama, along with the support of many Americans, is working fevorishly to have the place shut down by early next year.

But in looking at the definition of "fairness," how "fair" do you think it is when someone objects to a decision made by someone else, and the person making the decision can only bring themselves to rebut with '"Yeah? Well you did X, Y, and Z. So its OK for me to do this!!" Its like if your government objected to my government waging war on Iraq in 2003 and refused to send troops or publicly virbally back it, and when they tryed to explain why it might be a bad idea, my government responded with something along the lines of '"Well you pressured us into overthrowing the democraticly elected government of Iran in 1953, so its OK for us to go into Iraq in 2003." Two wrongs don't make a right!!

That is the point I was trying to make with my opinion on the short sighted and ignorant reaction of a surprisingly large number of Britains to Americans, and yes the American government as a reflection of the American victums, daring to express their opinions on a tragic event that assasonated 189 of their fellow citizens. I can't explain it any better than that.
Responses to Megrahi release 4:22pm on 21 Aug 2009 john112uk #95: '"The special status of scotland as an oppressed colony of England is dead and buried in the US. Bit like American support for the IRA became unfashionable after 9-11. That's a very good result for England."

You very well may be right, but I wouldn't base 300 million people's views of Scotland, much less Yale and Harvard educated foreign policy experts at the State department and various think tanks around DC on a couple of Hollywood movies.

"Originally I thought this was terrible, but in reality one bloke going back to Libya is not the big picture here.

A split between scotland and the US is much more important."

Why? Do you think that we want to sever our ties with Scotland? That we now see them as an enamy? We definitly do not!! And why would that be a good thing anyway? Isn't it good for nations of a similar mindset to get along with one another?

I'm venturing into some very dangerous waters here, because the last time I gave my opinion on this I had my head nearly chewed off. But for what its worth I don't think it would benifit you to split up into four separate nations, or to let Scotland go, or what have you. I think a massive root and branch overhall of your treaties/constituton/agreements is desperately needed to make things more fair and equal, but take it from one who's nation went through a brutal and devastating civil war not too long ago, the impacts of which are still being felt today, a break-up of your union would in my opinion leave you less powerful and more vulnerable in the world.

Apologies to those I've offended, and that is all I will say on the matter.

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