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reasoneddebate

Listed below are comments made by reasoneddebate between Thursday, 12th March 2009 and Friday, 1st May 2009.

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England's Goalkeeping Manuel 6:22pm on 01 May 2009 Of course I meant "mythos", and "on it".

I despise typos.
England's Goalkeeping Manuel 6:20pm on 01 May 2009 Gaz, actually that last one was simply for comedy effect. As it happens I'm good friends with the guy who's banging (and will soon be marrying) my ex. Petty jealousy was never my bag.

My point stands though. All football teams have at some point behaved badly, been arrogant, done something objectionable, had a twonk playing for them, benefitted from a dodgy decision, or had an idiot fan or two. People who are jealous of United can use this to pick out the relevant incidents involving United, and use them to justify their hatred. From this moment on, any positives are ignored completely, whilst negatives are elaborated upon and exaggerated. The myths grows. It's called the confirmation bias (see Wason, 1960; or if you're not into journals, there's a very good chapter in it in one of Derren Brown's books). Sadly, this deeply ingrained human trait means that Mr Onion will never change his mind. On the plus side, Ferguson has used it to make his team the success it is today, encouraging a "siege mentality".

How's that for a silver lining?
England's Goalkeeping Manuel 6:03pm on 01 May 2009 Why do people hate United? The same reason Americans hate the Patriots, Spaniards hate Real, South Americans hate Argentina, blokes hate Johnny Depp, and I hate the guy that's banging my ex.

Jealousy, nothing more.
Relyin' on Ryan 11:24am on 28 Apr 2009 Actually you stated that Webb was "reluctant" to send off Vidic and Ronaldo. Reluctance being defined as an unwillingness to do something. I would argue that he is not reluctant or eager to send any player off. He simply does so if he believes such an action is warranted.

Frankly, I tire of this. I usually don't respond to WUMs, and I now remember why. Despite your resorting to immature jibes, I hope you enjoy the rest of your season, whoever you may support. And I hope your team finish it by only playing in games where every decision is made correctly. And next time your team get a dodgy decision for them, bear this conversation in mind.
Relyin' on Ryan 11:03am on 28 Apr 2009 No the season isn't over yet, but to amend: over the course of the season thus far, United have been the better team. Apologies if my original omission of those two words caused you such confusion, but I thought my point was self-evident, even in the face of extreme pedantry.

And my original post was aimed at those who believe there is some kind of conspiracy. As you replied to it, I would assume that you in some way objected to my assertion that refereeing in this country is a remarkably bias-free affair, particularly when you look at some of the corruption in Eastern Europe, South America, and even Portugal. If we agree on that, then there is nothing more to talk about.
Relyin' on Ryan 10:45am on 28 Apr 2009 "whereas in fact he's sent off 2 of your players and showed himself to be reluctant to dismiss either. No wonder you're not screaming conspiracy !!!"

If he's so biased towards us, why not send off Palacios?

""And no, United haven't won the title yet. I don't recall saying that they had"

i would say this is a little chicken counting, don't you think?"

In what way is it counting my chickens to say that we haven't won the League yet? We haven't. I firmly believe that we will, but that's called optimism, not chicken counting.

My point is one of an absolute middle ground. Referees make mistakes. It will happen. Webb may make more or fewer than most (I wouldn't like to say, not really dwelling on incorrect decisions as much as you), but to say that he favours one team is ridiculous. Good and bad decisions are made for and against every single team in the league. Difference is, people only remember the bad ones that go for United. It's called the confirmation bias, look it up.
Relyin' on Ryan 10:17am on 28 Apr 2009 I didn't say he was desperate to send off United players. He's not desperate to send off any players. He's a guy doing his job to the best of his ability, who happened to make a mistake. You lot are the paranoid idiots screaming conspiracy, not me. We could swap dodgy decisions all day. There was one in the FA Cup semi-final, where we should have had a penalty. We didn't, fair enough. These things happen. Personally I would have loved United to win the Cup, but this year it wasn't to be.

And no, United haven't won the title yet. I don't recall saying that they had. But they are three points clear in the table, having played a game less, and that's a position they deserve to have based on the performances all season, and not just the last two weeks. Hopefully we'll win the league by more than three points, and put an end to this "one game wins the title" nonsense. Liverpool have got themselves to blame for not being top of the league - they've drawn against too many inferior teams. That's a fact, and any moaning about United decisions is either partisan paranoia, or a plain misunderstanding of the nature of the game.
Relyin' on Ryan 10:00am on 28 Apr 2009 "Nevertheless, the chip in question will remain uneaten until the season is utterly over."

Is that the chip you have on your shoulder Robbo, or a new one?

For a man who's biased towards Man United, Webb doesn't half send off a lot of our players. If that's his support I'd rather he not bother! As has been pointed out elsewhere, it's easy to comment on what a bad decision it was when you've seen it hundreds of times in slow motion, from several different angles. I was surrounded by Spurs fans when Carrick went into the box, and every single one of them was cursing Gomes for diving in. It's only when they saw the third replay that they all changed their tune.

People going on at referees like this just puts more pressure on them, and increases the likelihood of mistakes in the future. The season is not decided on one fixture, it's decided over the course of a season. And over the course of this season, United have been the best side in England. Take the bitter glasses off for a second, and you'll see that.
Hiddink's sweet smell of success 02:57am on 10 Apr 2009 Regarding Liverpool's stats on conceding from a corner, I think I'm right in saying they have conceded the highest proportion of goals from set pieces in the Premiership this year. However, that could well be a misleading statistic since it's due to a good defensive record from open play as well. Having said that, I think zonal marking is a flawed system, as there are grey areas between zones, a split-second of "Is he my man or yours?" thinking. Sometimes that split-second is all that is needed. Man-marking relies on all your defenders being confident and able in one-on-one aerial battles, so while I feel it's the better system, it does rely on having the players for the job. Horses for courses, as it were.
Jose bows to Man Utd power 09:19am on 12 Mar 2009 #19

Which of those comments weren't true, exactly?

Liverpool were average in the first leg against a poor Real Madrid side. In the second leg Real were terrible, but Liverpool upped their game and played fantastically.

United completely outclassed Inter in the first leg, but couldn't get the away goal. Despite their poor performance last night, they beat Inter comfortably and never looked in real danger of being eliminated.

Any bias in the media is completely in the minds of Liverpool fans. If anything Liverpool get more credit than they deserve in Europe. In the Premiership they are rightly criticised for their inconsistency and inability to kill off games at home. The rest, I'm afraid, is just bitterness.

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