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Ravenseft

Listed below are comments made by Ravenseft between Sunday, 4th October 2009 and Wednesday, 2nd December 2009.

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Europe's cautious response to Obama 7:22pm on 02 Dec 2009 @ 5. Freeborn-John
I think I must have missed the part where you explained what exactly is the "public good" flowing from the continued occupation of Afghanistan. This doesn't seem to be my day, as I can't find either any justification for the tool of American imperialism otherwise known as NATO.

@ 6. kaybraes
I'm not quite sure what they're teaching in schools these days, but apparently not alot based on your comment. For the record, the US was involved in the last three or so months of WWI and for about half of WWII. Around 14 million European civilians died during WWII, and only Bulgaria, Italy and Romania were allied with the Axis powers.
Cameron shuns 'Euro bust-up' 00:36am on 05 Nov 2009 @ 27 Freeborn John
Adopting a literal interpretation - as the courts no doubt will - the Croatian accession treaty would constitute a "transfer of power" in the sense that the EU's competencies would be enlarged to include another country. In any event, you can be sure that someone like Rees-Mogg (who tried to force a referendum on Lisbon via the courts) will try this line, knowing that the British electorate would vote no.

Btw, the "cool headed determination" to effectively turn back the clock to 1985 means diddley squat in the absence of unanimous agreement by all other Member States including those currently funding the rebate. As that Guardian article shows, France is giving public voice to what others have been saying for some time now. It's no coincidence that Merkel has scaled back her EP involvement with the Tories, nor that the US have raised questions about their new friends in the Parliament.

@ 29 Grumpy Bob
Cameron's promise became legally impossible once all 27 states ratified the Treaty. Any attempt to welch on the agreement post-ratification would be wholly ineffective and simply lead to calls from other EU states for Britain to use the withdrawal procedure.
Map of the Week: Forgotten white working classes 2:17pm on 16 Oct 2009 @ 125. hants_gw

Except that you're forgetting that the immigrant worker is a "taxpayer" and will as such be paying tax on his earnings which will go towards paying the benefits of the unemployed local builder.

The immigrant worker will also, in order to find work, have had to overcome a number of obstacles which the local builder never has to face, e.g. language, culture, higher living costs, and discrimination from some sections of the population to immigrants/foreigners. Is it the fault of the migrant worker that the builder is put out of business by the forces of free market competition?
Map of the Week: Forgotten white working classes 1:31pm on 16 Oct 2009 @ 116. Woolfbane, agree 100%.

Nos. 117 & 122: ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country. If you do nothing for your country, then you have no right to anything in return and can't be surprised when better qualified and more motivated foreign workers come and take your place. Life is about the survival of the fittest.
Klaus opting out 00:47am on 11 Oct 2009 @ Benefactor no. 121.

How can the EU be more democratic?

(1) Redefinition of the role of the Commission - a smaller and less prominent institution without any right of initiative, whose sole purpose is to prepare the first draft of legal texts upon the request of the Parliament/Council/COR and to monitor the enforcement of Community law without having any enforcement powers. In other words a pure civil service supporting the EU's work. Role of Commissioners to be vastly reduced if not disappear altogether.

(2) Greater role for the Court of Auditors - powers to bring proceedings against Member States/Community institutions and agents for irregularities.

(3) More powers for the European Parliament to scrutinise Council legislative proposals on the basis of compliance with the principle of subsidiarity. More possibilities for the right of petition - petition signed by 5% of EU electorate should be debated, by 15% proposal should be voted on etc etc.

(4) Committee of the Regions to be more than just a talking shop. Right of initiative and obligatory consultation in certain areas.

(5) Election of the President of the European Council at the same time as EP elections. Max. of 1 candidate per Member State, that candidate to be chosen according to a democratic and transparent procedure put in place by the Member State.
Klaus opting out 3:45pm on 10 Oct 2009 @ 60. Economist123

"I, as an Englishman aged 30, have never been asked my opinion on Europe."

In the entire history of this country, on one occasion only has the government sought the opinion of the British people on any issue: EEC Membership in 1975. I'm not quite sure where this idea comes from that every Tom, Dick and Harry has the right to chip-in, Swiss-style, into the running of this country.

"Klaus is the only man who is standing up for democracy in the whole of the EU."

Taken directly from the Daily Mail? Klaus is an unelected politician pushing for a footnote to be inserted into the Treaty, a Treaty whose terms have been unanimously agreed by the elected representatives of 27 different states, plus the input of 785 MEPs. If one state doesn't agree, there's no Treaty. Simple. If Klaus is so unhappy, why doesn't he ask the Czech parliament to withdraw the ratification?

"The EU has shown itself to me to be undemocratic. It doesn't take NO for an answer. It forces Ireland to vote YES."

"No" was taken as an answer - that's why the Constitutional Treaty was abandoned. No-one forced the Irish to vote again, that was their own call. It's up to each state to decide how to implement the agreed treaty, if you don't like how your particular state has done it - blame your own government.

The EU lives and breathes through the actions and decisions of its participating states. If they decide a new treaty is needed, they determine together by unanimity what's in it and who should be its representatives. Of course, there are many problems - notably the democratic deficit - but such are the difficulties inherent in bringing together 27 very different states under a common umbrella. Much progress has been made and is still to be made.

Unfortunately your views as expressed above highlight exactly why there was no referendum on Lisbon - you don't vote on the content of the document, but rather your own views on the EU as drawn from the biased uninformed reporting of the British press controlled by a small group of rich pro-US elderly men who are not even taxpayers in this country.
Czech OK to Lisbon 'in weeks' 00:25am on 08 Oct 2009 Once Lisbon is done and dusted, the Tories will - I believe - announce their intention to "renegotiate" Britain's membership once they are elected and to put the terms of that renegotiation to a referendum. A "no" vote would result in withdrawal from the EU as per the procedure now set out in Lisbon. Renegotiation would probably entail opting-out of everything there is left to opt out of (social chapter, CFP/CAP and whatever else they can get away with), plus more of a rebate. The question will then be how far the other Member States are willing to go to keep Britain in and whether the Tories would push for a yes vote if they don't get all they want?
Pressure for a UK vote 6:02pm on 06 Oct 2009 @ 62. benagyerek

The Irish referendum rule comes from the Crotty v An Taoiseach decision in 1987 which ruled that any EU Treaty that substantially alters the character of the Union must be approved by a constitutional amendment. By contrast, the Tories talk about a "transfer of power" which has potentially a far wider scope.

@ 49. gavin_humph

"The reality is that the EU need us much more than we need them and think of the money saved by non contribution to the EU coffers."

The reality is that both the UK and the EU would survive without one another, but both do better working together. The EU without the UK would regroup and continue as before, with the UK's place as one of the "four big states" being (eventually) taken by Turkey. The UK would save £6bn membership fees (enough for about 60 odd miles of motorway), but its £140bn worth of exports would be hit by the EU's external tariff.
Pressure for a UK vote 3:51pm on 06 Oct 2009 @ 47. benagyerek,

Croatia's accession looks in any event likely to be delayed according to the Tories' manifesto promises: as is the case in Ireland, they want a referendum on every agreement which 'transfers more power' to the EU. This would catch every new treaty, including accession and association agreements.
Will Czechs disappoint Tories? 1:01pm on 04 Oct 2009 re 35. Reaper_of_Souls

"A free trade deal between an independent Britain and a Federal EU would be in the interests of both parties"

Why on earth would the EU allow UK companies free rein to compete against EU undertakings, after the UK has signalled its intent to take no further part in Europe and can offer nothing than that which is already supplied by existing EU companies?

At best, it would be a "guillotine" arrangement similar to that in place for Switzerland, which effectively means implementing a large bulk of EU legislation (on which the UK has had no say, and including free movement provisions) with the threat of cancellation of all agreements if it defaults.

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