So has Sir Christopher got it right?
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St. Paul's is okay, but there's always room for improvement.
>8-D
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Having moaned about this getting blanket coverage, I did just hear Roger Gale make an interesting point: that while spouses will be banned, there will be no rule against employing your lover. So, instead of the proposed "MP wife swapping", might we see a rash of uncontested parliamentary divorces, with MPs then employing their former spouses?
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Guilio,
;-)
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Oops! Cat, bag, etc... Mind, I'll bet there are a few parliamentary wives (or husbands) out there who would consider this solution preferable to the possible alternative of a later, messy divorce, resulting from an affair between an MP and his (or her) non-related office manager. Unfortunately, such 'liaisons' are all too common in the 'open all hours' hot-house atmosphere of Westminster.
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Reading this summary, I cannot see that there is anything in it that is remotely contentious. One point that I found particularly interesting is
the ban on Westminster MPs simultaneously sitting in a devolved legislature. I'm curious to know to how many MPs this is applicable?
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My #5 was in response to Lord Nathan at #3, btw.
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Independent regulator to be given power to compel MPs to co-operate, require repayments and impose fines.
The independent regulator to receive a salary of £100,000+ I understand. Considerably more than an MP's salary.
Arf!
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Giulio, Such "liaisons" are not restricted to Westmister. ;-)
Big Sister, Alex Salmond, for one, I believe. But he'd be happy to dispense with any need for Sottish MPs.
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1) Kelly says any capital gains on property acquired at public expense should be "surrendered to the taxpayer". As the measures will not come into force until the next Parliament, will there be a rush of MP's selling and then buying another home over the coming months, in order to realise the gain so far?
2) I won't be looking at the (130 page) report until tonight, but I'd be interested to know if Kelly proposes any changes to the Fees office.
3) There's a strong case for the provision of parliamentarian's accommodation in London, which would relieve them of the burden of finding a home themselves, along with many other advantages and benefits. This idea seems to have been rejected by Kelly.
4) Is there anything in the report which deals with the ministers who effectively have three homes, two provided at public expense?
5) On the question of the employment family, you either introduce some sort of productivity or performance measure on the MP and his/her staff OR exclude the employment of family. It had to be one or the other, Kelly has chosen the latter.
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Scotch-git, :o)
I thought of that Sir Christopher, too....
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#6. Big Sister,
"One point that I found particularly interesting is the ban on Westminster MPs simultaneously sitting in a devolved legislature."
Some MPs are county councillors as well. I'm not sure if councils fall under Kelly's definition, but there can be a conflict of interests when one individual represents his constituency AND sits on the county council.
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Well thank goodness someone is finally going to clean up this swirling cesspit of corruption! The MPs' expenses fiasco is the main reason why I have evaded tax for the last 20 years.
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(12) Richard - Seems to me there is nearly always a conflict between sitting on a Council and serving the public, especially if party politics are involved.
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Big Sis, I wonder if you had summarised the Bbc news page you would still have been moderated!
When I am on business I get hotel accommodation as necessary and a meal allowance as necessary. We are encouraged to take the cheapest possible transport option though car mileage allownace is allowe dif that is most convnient. So I go by train to London and take the car to Glasgow. This all proved with reciepts. Its fair. MP's proposed scheme seems fair.
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#9. Lord Nathan wrote:
Giulio, Such "liaisons" are not restricted to Westmister. ;-)
Big Sister, Alex Salmond, for one, I believe.
Big Sister had a "liaison" with Alex Salmond? Crikey!
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(2) Giulio - Your observation is not surprising. Single OAPs (2 living together) get 2 single pensions. If they marry, they have to share a married couple's pension. So the law is shown to be anti-marriage.
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Richard, Vyle, I wish someone would look at councillors' expenses. We have at one demonstrable exes fiddler on ours (so published documents show)
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17: Pensioners, whether married or single, are treated as individuals now, Vyle. The only exception would be if one of the pair isn't entitled 'in their own right'.
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I think I just heard on the radio that the 'double-jobbing' provision will mainly affect Irish MPs - I can't remember if it was 18, or 16 out of 18.
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Vyle, this link is useful:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2554675.stm
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re my 4 (above), at the time I posted the information, I don't think Sequin had given the BBC link. If it has been deemed inappropriate for me to give the resume of the report, I apologise profusely - but I, for one, wanted access to it.
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Sid (20) - I think it is 16 out of 18. But it doesn't stop at double-jobbing. There is triple-jobbing, employing relatives, renting office from relatives, employing relatives to carry out repairs and on and on and on.
And I know that the number of Northern Ireland Assembly Members was artificially inflated to ensure that all sections were represented but tell me if there is any justification for the (approx)figures below:
Wales Population 2.9 million Assembly Members - 60
Scotland Population 5 million Parliament Members - 129
Wales Population 1.7 million Assembly Members - 108
And most of the 108 are very busy doing very little. If you are short of a few politicians we can offer some on permanent loan. We'll even let you have your pick.
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Two Waleses, Preston?
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Roger Gale always has a lot to say doesn't he - allegedly? Lovers employable? I didn't hear it but if true - what a wonderful world Westminister is. I recall the line about the Lady Chatterley book and someone wondering if someone else would let "their servants read shocking tome?" lol
As to employing actual spouses and offspring - I think the "phased in over 5 years" should be more than enough for those whinging about employing relatives. It is called nepotism you know, MoPs? As far as I recall it is normally frowned on or was when I was in Human Resourcing!
Yes I think the Kelly Report is just about right but I can almost guarantee there are dozens of legal minds as I type looking for loopholes as to why "life shouldn't Carry On as before" the Expenses Scandal became - a "scandal"!
I looked out into the garden just now and have just got to accept the fact in five years - I will have to do it myself iunder the new "rules". My missus is doing a good job though. My "lover" couldn't do it any better I sure, Mr Gale! lol
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#20 Sid
I thought that the 2 x representation of MP's and Members of assemblies would affect all "double job MP's" whether Northern Irish, Scottish, Welsh or English (when we get our parliament). This can only be a good thing as according to Westminster MP's it is a very demanding job and full time. Therefore, 2 jobs MP's are not providing proper representation.
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Preston,
Some clarificatin of your data would be appropriate.
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I think the second Wales is N Ireland.
But you can never have too much of Wales
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Looternite - it would.
But, as I say, at the moment it mainly affects NI.
(NI is the third of PF's figures @ #23, not Wales.)
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No, Frances, you can't ;o)
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Didn't Shamron promise to reduce the number of MPs so will he reduce the numbers according to the correct ratios and whether there is an Assembly or Parliament.
Or I suspect that Shamron would consider 1 MP from Scotland, 1 MP from Wales, 1 MP from the North East and 100 from Surrey.
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What's happened to Norn Irn? It was there a minute ago and now it's gone!
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Big Sister (24) - Thanks. That's the danger of cutting and pasting and forgetting to edit! Correct figures below.
Wales Population 2.9 million - Assembly Members - 60
Scotland Population 5 million - Parliament Members - 129
Northern Ireland Population 1.7 million - Assembly Members - 108
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Hm, I see what you mean, Preston
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Lady Sue (32) - Nope, it's still here. And it's about to pour down!
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I'm sure that the tripple jobbing doesn't just apply to Norn Iron, Councillors on assemblies(parliaments) with seats in Westminster. Families working for them, second homes etc.
Scratch my back...etc.
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Preston, it's positively flooding here.
Your statistics @33 are quite alarming. The amount of fiddling and carry on, I understand, is even worse here, south of the border in 'Mexico'. Apparently TDs don't have to declare their expenses and the upshot is no public accountability.
The day Charlie Haughey died our beloved housekeeper came in with the news. When I asked what he'd died from she said, rather appropriately, "That ole' prosperous cancer".
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19/21 Big Sis - Thank you. You've made my day. I hope the rules aren't changed again in the next 6 years.
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(26) Looernite: "Therefore, 2 jobs MP's are not providing proper representation."
2 right.
All the more reason to pay them NMW by the hour.
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You lot in GB could learn a bit from us when it comes to multitasking and other political skills!
MP and leader of the DUP, Peter Robinson is also First Minister in the Northern Ireland Assembly. His wife Iris is also an MP, a member of the Northern Ireland Assembly and a member of Castlereagh Council.
Peter Robinson employs both their son and daughter-in-law, whilst Iris Robinson employs another son, and their daughter. So six Robinsons in all are paid by Parliament in one way or another.
Among their claims was £160,000 in mortgage interest and about £30,000 for food over a four-year period. MPs are entitled to claim up to £400 per month in food bills while away from their main home on parliamentary business - I'll let you do the maths.
(all of the above information taken from BBC online news reports)
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#10 Richard_SM has a good point: who in the Fees Office is going to be held responsible for advising the MPs that they could claim for items which were not directly required to perform their roles as an MP? Surely if the Fees Office had been doing its job properly then none of the MPs would have received a penny they were not entitled to under a strict interpretation of the rules.
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I just heard some bloke say that this is Kelly talking to those sitting at the foot of the guillotine. Has even one MP been prosecuted?
40 Preston Firmlie
The N.Ireland Family Robinson - but few lessons on thrift and self-reliance!
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Preston@40: !!!
That is SUCH a scandal! Please PM do a bit of investigation on this.
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I see the mods seem unsure about my No. 4, which remains 'referred'. I'd love to know on what grounds it was referred and, if moderated, on what grounds. Is the Times On Line now a dirty word (or collection of words)?
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Blast this Kelly chap for interfering!
Now there will be no Westminster Symphony Orchestra.....seems there is a shortage of fiddlers!
;-)
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My 4 - all the information from that can be found here.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6902466.ece
I believe it is acceptable to post up links to news stories?
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What rubbish to say that MPs cannot employ their wives - I have been with my husband for 35 years - every enterprise we have embarked on has
been a joint one - he has never wanted or needed 'another woman' to be his secretary or aide - and we are completely happy to be in eachothers
company 24/7 - which is why we married in the first place.
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