PM Glass Box for Wednesday
Hello, there are several big news items on our agenda today - Rupert is editing. We'd like to know what you thought of the programme so let us know. He'll have a look at your comments after we finish our own 6pm debrief in our newsroom glass box.
All the best,
sequin
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Classic!
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You are currently signed as Scotch-git. Sign out.
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Maybe this should be on the AM Glass Box, but here goes!
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Background here
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#3
"This draft resolution saddens me as it includes only allegations against Israel...There is not a single phrase condemning Hamas as we have done in the report. I hope that the council can modify the text."
Judge Richard Goldstone, speaking to the Swiss newspaper Le Temps on Friday, October 16th. before the United Nations Human Rights Council passed a resolution (without modifying the text) endorsing the Goldstone Report, clearing the way for discussion in the United Nations Security Council.
The resolution also condemned Israeli activity in eastern Jerusalem and the West Bank, even though these were not part of the Goldstone remit.
Source:- Honest Reporting UK
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Scotch Git,
I note that the Goldstone report, and not the UN resolution was the subject of the US Congressional vote. The report is apparently very even-handed.
Slainte
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#5
It seems to me that Congressman Kucinich is the one adopting an Orwellian attitude. His attempt to portray a moral equivalence between Hamas, who believe that by murdering Israelis they are doing Allah's will and the IDF, who are indulging in the heinous crime of defending Israeli citizens, is shameful.
If you do not share the concerns of Judge Richard Goldstone, perhaps you can take seriously the view of Colonel Richard Kemp.
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#6. Scotch-git
Hamas and the IDF should be treated equally.
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On Goldstone
"
FYI
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#6.Scotch-git
Correction: Hamas leadership, Hamas militia, Israeli leadership, IDF should be treated equally.
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Coming from South Africa with a nme like that, it's difficult to imagine Goldstone as an anti-Semitic...
I repeat: The US resolution was against Goldstone's report, NOT about his concerns about the UN resolution.
Heinously
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Cameron: "I did not promise a referendum come what may ..."
Au contraire Mr C.:
"... a pledge from Cameron to the readers of the Sun that he would hold a referendum on the Lisbon treaty. "Today," wrote the Tory leader in September 2007 in an article he must bitterly regret, "I will give this cast-iron guarantee: if I become prime minister, a Conservative government will hold a referendum on any EU treaty that emerges from these negotiations." To dramatically emphasise the point, he wrote his personal signature at the bottom. "Small wonder that so many people don't believe a word politicians ever say," added Cameron, "if they break their promises so casually."
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Thank you PM (and FiveLive Drive) I listened to the Leader of the Opposition and at last I thought. That sharpened HB pencil need not be used but I am musing on Sequin's interview with William of Hague about why we need stuff.
I suppose HB pencil is being used because while I think on I am tapping it in irritation because I am distracted by information from elsewhere. But I look forward to a calm and studied attempt to change the terms we in Great Britain have - were the Conservatives to form the next Party in power and assuming of course Mr Cameron is their Leader still whilst they do it. Nowt should be taken for granted, should it, William? Nowt? A period in Yorkshire me, as a much MUCH younger man! Nice county by the way. I learnt plain speaking there I expect.
SUBJECT: A FEW UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES ALONG THE WAY – ALL THE BEST COMMA Q NONCULINARY
ANAGRAM: QUEEN INN CONTENT CAD DNA FEW USA EGO - YE WELSH - QUEEN INN BO MARSHALCY TACT MOLL
I learnt cryptic more recently and it is not helpful is it?
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BBC World Service, World Have Your Say. 18.00hrs tonight ( a few mins)
IS IT TIME TO LET AFGHANS SORT OUT THEIR OWN COUNTRY?
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The country has a national debt so big that servicing it costs more than the defense budget. When I was young I tried to borrow my way out of a financial crisis. I took advise from a bank and ended up in an even worse situation. It was only when I admitted that I had to live within my means and worked long and hard, cutting my spending to the bone, that I started to regain control of my life. There is no other solution than to tighten belts, cut spending and increase taxes to get the debt under control before it sinks the country. Politicians cutting expenses and salaries, bankers bonuses and salaries will have little financial impact on the crisis. It will show leading by example and give credibility to proposals that will be painful for the vast majority of the population who will never see an expense or bonus. Any load becomes lighter when spread we will all have to suffer
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I think it's time the Afghans were left to sort out their own ocuntry and we should leave before it turns into another Vietnam. We should remember how long the Russians were there and couldn't win even with all their might. The difficulty I think is how they get out without causing furthr embarrassment all round. There was never any clear strategy for Afghanistan, like there was no strategy for Iraq. People should stand back and look at all the damage that's been called and ask themselves was it really worth it. This was all done to satisfy the ego of George Bush, surely the most stupid of all world leaders in living memory, and his poodle Phoney Blar. Bush was to presidential as Ringo Starr was to singing.
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Sid - referring back to your helpful data on horseriding and ecstasy on Friday's blog could you just explain one thing to me: what is a horse-riding "episode"? I'm fascinated how people can define and/or collect such information. Does someoner stand behind a bush and count how many times they hear approaching hooves? If so what about people who ride on private land? Perhaps a department of Google Earth constantly watches from above to see when an episode is taking place? Does an ecstasy "episode" have some kind of connection to the number of tablets taken, or is it defined by a span of time under the influence?
Compared with these stats I find the numbers of Prof Murray (Institute of Psychiatry) on Monday's World At One more cut and dried. He says 90% of all patients who present for the first time with a serious psychosis are cannabis smokers. I think stats like that are easier to collect and more persuasive
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How many people die because their horse was on drugs?
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16 elizabeth taylor
80% of schizophrenics are tobacco smokers but that statistic no more suggests a causal link than Prof Murray's casual observation.
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elizabeth taylor @ 16
The figures I quote are taken directly from Nutt's article in the Journal of Psychopharmacology. I can't provide a direct link, as that opens a pdf file and such things aren't allowed on this blog. But if you search the internet you can find it quite easily.
I doubt if an 'episode' is anything other than a distinct time when someone goes riding (from when they get on their horse to when they get off), or goes to a rave and takes ecstasy. I also doubt if the exact figures are relevant, and I'm fairly sure that they are calculated from available data rather than specially collected for his paper. All he is saying is: here are two activities which millions of people enjoy, which result in a small number of deaths each year. One is illegal, one isn't - why the difference?
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7, 9 Richard - should be treated equally by whom? A Palestinian historian has just announced that the Jews have no history in the land which the Romans named Palestine (probably after the Philistines). How can we have any faith in what they say?
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19 Sid,if we had known then what we know now tobacco would have been illegal from the start. And remember that cannabis is thought to be worse for lung cancer than tobacco.
It's all pollution which we can easily live without.
Growing tobacco isn't very green, either.
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Denial happens on the Israeli side, too!
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4-10: What US ambassador said to Israelis:
"From the inception of the Goldstone Commission we objected to its flawed mandate," Cunningham told the Israeli audience at a lecture under the auspices of Tel Aviv University.
"We have stated our concerns about the Goldstone Report - after it was issued - clearly and repeatedly, including the overly-broad scope of its recommendations, its failure to address the asymmetrical nature of the conflict and its sweeping conclusions of law."
Cunningham noted that the US "led the opposition to [the report's] endorsement by the Human Rights Council in Geneva, and will continue to reject efforts to use the report to undercut Israel's right to self defense. Israel is a strong democracy with independent institutions capable of addressing allegations [through] credible domestic processes, and we have encouraged it to do so," he said.
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At least he got the "asymmetric" bit right, but I expect not in the way he intended.
No concept of irony in the US as usual.
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(24) Lord Nathan, if you can get to this it will show the asymmetry.
http://www.out-of-zion.com/arabworldverseisrael.htm
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#20. Vyle Hernia,
".. should be treated equally by whom?"
By everyone, including the UN, the ICC. Don't you agree?
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21 According to BBC News at;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4350642.stm
"Cannabis smoke is less likely to cause cancer than tobacco smoke, a leading US expert says. Dr Robert Melamede, of the University of Colorado, said that, while chemically the two were similar, tobacco was more carcinogenic. He said the difference was mainly due to nicotine in tobacco, whereas cannabis may inhibit cancer because of the presence of the chemical THC.
But health campaigners warned against complacency. Cannabis remains the most commonly-used drug in the UK with one in 10 people using it in the last year, according to the British Crime Survey."
The ten percent figure is wildly demographic of course: the figure rises to 50% reported among some younger sections. Now, considering that schizophrenia onset is so commonly associated with this section that it was formerly known as "dementia praecox" (teenage madness), the "90%" quote needs to be seen in proportion.
There's evidence that links cannabis and ecstasy use with patterns of depression and the triggering of psychosis. This is an important message, but not the one the government wants to "send out". Rather, the aim seems to be to convince the young, the vast majority of whom have personal experience of "soft" drug use among their peers without obvious danger, that crack and smack can be viewed in the same light.
The suppression of raves in the early 90s followed reports of reduced business from the alcohol trade. The acts coincided with the marketing of alcopops in a way widely held to be directed at young teens. The result is well-known.
Given Gordon Brown's affection for the whisky business, it is widely held that his aims are similarly cynical. Indeed, political disaffection is another phenomenon particularly prevalent among the young. Politicians who claim that they have the moral authority to "send out messages" to the young are not thinking "joined up".
This sorry affair promotes drugs like Guantanamo promotes extremism.
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Love the "embattled victim" pose. Pity it's a sham.
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25 "Israel as embattled victim" - VH, please, you direct us to a low quality "messianic" site and a map that is full of inaccuracies (Iran is not an Arab country, "Lybia" is not correct etc.) whose aim is to suggest, quite wrongly, that we assume ALL Arab states are by definition enemies of Israel. This is not a serious contribution to debate unless your aim is to convince us that Israeli policy is driven by racist-sectarian nutcases. Which cannot be, of course, since only Muslims are that way inclined. As noted above, they apparently believe that God has given them leave to fight back. This is evident fanaticism, and the sooner we get over there and forcibly convert them the better. Is that it? Well, no need, it is already happening. It has been happening since the Ottomans folded - no, since Napoleon. Why do you think our govts. set up the Jews as our patsies? Because as Christians they love 'em? Or because it's great to have overwhelming, nuclear-armed military force beholden to us and right next to the Suez canal?
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30 Afterthought - how I long for the old days when the OTTOMANS were the reason we had to be there to save the ARABS, who lived peacably with their Jewish neighbours. Good old Lawrence, eh? Good man, but naive. Wonder what happened to him?
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Here's a novel perspective from 21 April 1986.
Terrorism has many undercurrents. One is that because of nuclear weapons, the nations are pouring their energy into that field, thinking that the old weapons are out of date. They are out of date, but individuals can start using them. And you cannot use nuclear weapons against individuals -- that would be simply stupid. One individual terrorist throws a bomb -- it does not justify that a nuclear missile should be sent.....
Now the governments are concentrated on destroying the old weapons, throwing them in the ocean, selling them to countries which are poor and cannot afford nuclear weapons. And all those terrorists are coming from these poor countries, with the same weapons that have been sold to their countries. And they have a strange protection: you cannot use nuclear weapons against them, you cannot throw atom bombs at them.....
Now, a terrorist has a strange power, even over the greatest powers. He can throw bombs at the White House without any fear, because what you have is too big and you cannot throw it at him. And these are the weapons sold by you! But the phenomenon was not conceived of, because human psychology is not understood.....
Religions have imposed things on man very superficially; his unconscious is not in agreement. Every man is living in a disagreement with himself. So whenever he can find a chance -- for a beautiful cause; freedom, democracy, socialism -- any beautiful word can become an umbrella to hide his ugly unconscious, which simply wants to destroy and enjoys destruction....
These comments were made by Osho (Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh) shortly after his imprisonment and expulsion from the USA. Well - I mean - no wonder the US govt wanted to shut him up, saying stuff like that. 1986.
Terrorism is going to become bigger and bigger, because the third world war is almost impossible. And the stupid politicians have no other alternative. Terrorism simply means that what was being done on a social scale now has to be done individually. It will grow. It can only be prevented if we change the very base of human understanding -- which is a Himalayan task; more so because these same people whom you want to change will fight you; they won't allow you to change them easily. In fact they love bloodshed; they don't have the courage to say so.
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Thanks for that Redheylin. Bagwan was OK in a lot of ways
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Red,
Hardly!
America will do this and will do that . . . I want to
tell you something very clear: Don't worry about
American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish
people, control America, and the Americans
know it."
Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon,
October 3, 2001, to Shimon Peres, as
reported on Kol Yisrael radio.
Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi
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34. But he's a nutter. Way I see it, Jews might have purchase on the democrats. The republicans just wanna conquer the world! Anyhow, Israel was not America's idea, they just handed out the guns when the Brits gave up due to the ZIONIST terrorism of Menachem Begin et al.
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Yup!
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Lord N 35 - That's fine, another agitprop site, and Zionism is as detestable as any other kind of violent sectarian fundamentalism, but you forcibly remind me of many people of the highest (secular) ideals who, I know, became involved in the Israel "project". What they think of the things done in their name is another matter but it is appropriate to bear them in mind. On the other side, some Bedouin tribesmen were saying "bring them on, let them live in the desert, then we can rob them whenever we need to!". How little they knew.
The point is; whenever we take sides on a racial or sectarian basis, we descend to the herd mind. Then all our talk is no better than "growl, growl" - "moo moo", however obvious the rights and wrongs.
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Sid @19
Thanks for the info. I have at last read the article on "equasy" and it sounds quite plausible and engaging. However he does acknowledge that there are millions of riders in this country, and I'm not sure how many of the roughly 10 deaths a year could be attributed to bad drivers. On the way there I did gather Dr Nutt has some persuasive critics in the medical community; there was a long article in which it said he is a strong advocate of benzodiazipans and denies they have any side effects. There are actually at least 20 side effects listed including high dependency. It also pointed out that he is paid by and/or has shares in a very large number of drug companies.
lucien-desgai @18
Ok the cigarette stuff may be true as well, but Prof Robin Murray's remarks were far from casual. He said (I paraphrase) if you could get rid of all heavy use of skunk you would get rid of 20% of serious schizophrenic patients. Of the Drugs Advisory Committee he said they had not covered themselves in glory. In 2002 they denied there was any link between cannabis and schizophrenia but in 2005 accepted there was a link. In 2005 they denied there was any increase in the potency of street cannabis but in 2007 accepted that it was more potent. He says Dr Nutt still denies there is a link between heavy smoking of skunk and schizophrenia
redheylin @ 27 I agree that "this sorry affair promotes drugs like Guantamo promotes extremism" Because this government is so unpopular everybody rushes to assume that Dr Nutt is right. Those who think 'a puff of cannabis never did me any harm' have united with disgruntled scientists, and so th real dangers of this newly potent drug are downplayed. Are you sure though that the government only want to present it as a gateway drug? The cost to the NHS of keeping ex-users on antipsychotic drugs must be enormous
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37 "Dr Nutt has some persuasive critics in the medical community; there was a long article in which it said he is a strong advocate of benzodiazipans and denies they have any side effects. There are actually at least 20 side effects listed including high dependency. It also pointed out that he is paid by and/or has shares in a very large number of drug companies."
But in the context this is just ad hominem, is it not? What they call "smear"? However you go on to say;
"Are you sure though that the government only want to present it as a gateway drug? The cost to the NHS of keeping ex-users on antipsychotic drugs must be enormous"
Given that the DAC is peopled with drug company lackeys, the latter might seem a consummation devoutly to be wished. It would be better if someone could come out and say "Dr Nutt is intent on driving young people mad so he can make money" if that is what we are all supposed to infer. Then the matter can be looked into, forever after to be referred to as "the Nutt case". You also say;
"In 2005 they denied there was any increase in the potency of street cannabis but in 2007 accepted that it was more potent."
It depends what you mean by "street". There are some very strong strains of cannabis in Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, that exceed in strength the African varieties that were common in Britain in the 70s. The quality of the latter has degenerated due to mass production and there have been efforts to grow the Oriental breeds in Europe, so that now "skunk" sometimes (though rarely) approaches in its effects the power of the weed that teenage soldiers were smoking in Vietnam in the sixties.
But I did not say anything about "gateway": I said that the government is "sending out messages" based on what the majority of young people were starting to do instead of getting drunk. The alcohol lobby promoted the classification of ecstasy: this classification is not based on harm and danger but on vested interests and popular moralities. Most children know people who take "E" and "get awat with it". The message sent out, therefore, is "you can take crack and smack and get away with it: it's just as safe". It's not a good message. The classification of drugs means the govt. has to admit that some illegal drugs are comparatively benign.
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"I could not function at all for several hours, I walked around the room and could not stop laughing. It was not relaxing, I imagine it was like tripping on L.S.D. - I could not have slept. I do not know what I was talking about or what people must have thought of me. I was convinced all the time I was in a jazz club in old New Orleans."
This is the recent account of a 17-yr-old exposed for the first time to that European skunk known as "Northern Lights". Undoubtedly this is a "psychotic episode", just as surely (as he says) as an LSD experience is, and undoubtedly could be a "trigger" for extended psychosis in a substantial minority (like LSD). Children need reliable, individual advice. But this also means that advisors must be ready to say to some; "you are not the kind of a person who is most likely to suffer such consequences" - and this is unpalatable. However, the above subject did not - he went out looking for more!
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39 (At which point, I must say to spare your outrage, I reminded the lad of the dangers - but he is not my charge).
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One more thought = a matter that I feel may well be chronically under-reported; the incidence of accidental or negligent ingestion of illegal drugs by young children, typically 6-10.
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37 "I'm not sure how many of the roughly 10 deaths a year could be attributed to bad drivers."
What I am saying is; I am not sure how many drug deaths could be attributed to censoriousness and illegality.
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-- Golda Meir
Couldn't resist!
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I like that one Lord N.
Reminds me of Churchill - "Mr. Attlee is a very modest man. Indeed he has a lot to be modest about."
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37, 42 - just for the record: my reading of Nutt's paper suggests that it's 10 deaths from falls (i.e. horse-riding) PLUS an unknown number from road accidents (some of which might be attributable to drivers).
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Sid, thanks for that. It reminds that you wouldn't have caught Atlee being so casually rude.
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