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Early again what's going on we should be told.
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Is this up early so we can complain in advance about the story that will not be told on PM tonight unless the Guardian succeeds in overturning the injunction against the thing we are not allowed to mention, obtained by the firm we cannot name by Carter-Ruck solicitors (who, mods note, are allowed to be named)?
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Is it Eric Morecambe?
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Rachel, what makes you think the injunction needs to be overturned before we can do the story? Tune in!
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Rachel - an update here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/oct/13/guardian-gagged-parliamentary-question
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Eddie (4):
Great stuff! Now I have to try to get home early to hear the first half of the programme!
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I could hardly believe what I was hearing. Being told to look at a map. This is RADIO! I listen to PM on my kitchen radio while preparing a meal. Over the months I have grown used to 'visit our blog' 'visit our website' and so on, but do I now have to look at a map to understand the weather forecast? I don't have Broadband, and I haven't got time to drop everything and rush to the computer. I know where I live.
Felicity Barnaby
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Eddie please do not forget my request on AM blog for the children's minister (is there one)? to be brought into explain re the 1 and half million (tip of iceburg)UK kids without food, clothes and love....as Today did not cover the story well enough - there being only charitable people interviewed this morning - important though they are. And what about Save the Children the big charity - get them on as they usually only do third world probs....UK kids need their attention urgently. How has this happened after 12 years of Labour? I think it is a big story but Today gave more time to NIck Cave this morning.
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#8. pithywriter
You said "How has this happened after 12 years of Labour?".
The neglect and abuse of children has been going on for a lot longer than the past 12 years.
I would like to know why a supposed civilised country still has this sort of "Dickensian" treatment of children after 120 years.
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Felicity - if you know where you live, you don't have to look at a map!
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http://tinyurl.com/yl2bcoy
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8304908.stm Nick Higham article.
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Another link to the Minton report for Trafigura..
http://wikileaks.org/leak/waterson-toxicwaste-ivorycoast-%C3%A92009.pdf
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Eddie, Yes or No are too simple as answers to most of today's issues. But I just wish 'they' would answer the bluddy question.
For example, Yvette the other week, when asked if she'd seen the Treasury memo about cuts. Wouldn't give a straight answer and defend/explain Labour's position at that time. It used to be just the Conservatives who did that.
I LONG for them all to stop treating us like idiots, for fear of what the Sun or Mail might print, and tell us what they THINK.
(Sorry, don't mean to shout, but I do, often, at the radio.)
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A Good Read; more like a good whine.
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Lovely Glass Box...
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MPs and Parliament have no authority! Legg completed their expenses forms did he?
So nobody else that doesn't have the MP gene could do such good work for the good of the nation then?
We don't have democracy here, and MPs have allowed it to happen.
Parliament can be restored by sacking them all.
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Blair's not responsible for the death of Dr. David Kelly?
Dr. David Kelly still has more integrity than the current cabinet?
Why Saddam? The Americans are quite happy dealing with that unelected man with all the gas and oil in Equatorial Guinea aren't they?
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Very courageous mother to be able to speak so coherently about such a tragic waste of young life. Mr. Blair has a lot to answer for.
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Nobody forces anybody to serve in the armed forces.
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1. Half the world is listening on Long Wave - old forecasT!
2. BANK ASSET SELLING
Why is the Government not selling its shares in LoydsHBOS. The have doubled in Six Months.
700 Billions loaned 6 should we ask for some of it back now?
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It's a bit much the MPs attacking the press given the '45 minute warning' con that was in the press.
MPs are like celebs? They only like the press when they say nice things about them? MPs want it both ways?
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What was that babble that HH just said?
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Can you tell us what's causing the racket in the lobby of Parliament - or are all those squabbling kids the MP's?
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When I heard that lady relay Tony Blair's remark that she 'did not understand about Saddam Hussein' my immediate thought was for what Blair said at the time:
‘So far as our objective, it is disarmament, not régime change - that is our objective. Now I happen to believe the regime of Saddam is a very brutal and repressive regime, I think it does enormous damage to the Iraqi people... so I have got no doubt Saddam is very bad for Iraq, but on the other hand I have got no doubt either that the purpose of our challenge from the United Nations is disarmament of weapons of mass destruction, it is not regime change.’ Tony Blair, interview November 14 2002
‘I detest his regime. But even now he can save it by complying with the UN's demand. Even now, we are prepared to go the extra step to achieve disarmament peacefully’ Tony Blair, Statement to the House of Commons, February 25, 2003
We were not asked to support the invasion of Iraq in order to liberate the Iraqis from his odious regime. We were told that we had to invade because the Iraqi people, crippled, broken and defenceless after years of vicious sanctions, were such an intolerable threat to us that we had no option.
'Liberation' and the villiany of Saddam were justifications AFTER the invasion when the WMD scam fell through. The media -including the BBC- fell meekly into line with that and still insist that liberation and creation of democracy is the reason we are in both Iraq and Afghanistan.
Had Blair or Bush had any interest in liberating the Iraqi people then the very first thing they would have done would have been to take away the sanctions that were stopping them from doing it for themselves.
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On to Blair Peach now. Where's the Guardian story you promised, Eddie?
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A good thing that so many policemen hit Peach so that no one person can be blamed. Not Marshall or the six others with him. Guess he hit himself.
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The Expenses Cul de sac
There's a broader view to be had here about the MP's expenses. Is it not reasonable to assume that public intolerance of the abuse by their representatives of the expenses system is just a tangible reflection of general deep public disappointment and frustration with the way they are being represented? Is it not possible that by PM and their colleagues constantly focusing on the petty details and their implications they are missing this wider picture.
British people are now inhabiting a country that has in recent years humiliated and morally reduced itself by allying itself with what is now generally regarded as a failed and deadly US-inspired war from an administration whose world view is now widely seen as a dangerous failure. As well as this we are surveying shattered economic landscape which has as much to do with the decisions Parliament and Government made as it does with the behaviour of a handful of wealthy bankers. I don't think people are as stupid as to believe that the only thing they have against their representatives is what they spent our taxes on.
Is there not some way that people like Jack Straw and Harriet Harman can be confronted with this possibility because it is simply not being spoken of. Harman just referred to "...the public trust that has been damaged by the expenses system." This is exactly the argument she wants to have and until her and her colleagues are picked up on this deliberate manipulation of the debate by interviewers, I don't believe you are doing your job properly.
This is a serious debate that is being deliberately cut off at the neck.
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Now it's Vauxhall, and the Royal Mail, and inflation, and a man killing his wife, and Ian Wallace...
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Regarding MP's complaining about their "retrospective" payback arrangements for their excessive expenses claims, it is worth reminding everyone that our parliamentarians sanctioned Gordon Brown when he changed the rules - retrospectively - on Accumulation and Maintenance Trusts five or six years ago.
I, for one, lost several thousand pounds in wasted fees to lawyers and accountants.
Steve Ellis, Whitstable, Kent
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Mrs M #13 says that Yvette Cooper didn't give a straight answer to a straight question - she said she didn't remember seeing a particular bit of paper that had no reason to cross her desk some months before. Can Mrs M remember each bit of paper that she saw a few months ago that she could honestly say she had or hadn't? I doubt it. Suppose she said yes to appease the questioner and then it turned out she hadn't seen it?
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And Scotch and bagpipe factories in Scotland.
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Saving the best for last, I guess...
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D. McNick (31)
Less than twenty mins to go... Hang in there...
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I do hope you have time for the Carter-Ruck climbdown over the Guardian gag order - they tried to prevent the reporting of a Parliamentary Question which really takes the libel law abuse cake. Twitterverse went nuts, what effect this had on events I'm not sure, but it was heartening to see those hash-tags trending, particularly since they were trying to avoid publicity... #Trefigura #CarterRuck BTW
Apparently they are still on Newsnight's case so it's not over.
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JW 33, Gotta go to the loo.
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What is this report all about? C'mon Ed, before I pee my pants!
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Surely if anyone to blame of Dr David Kelly it's that R4 journalist Gilligan? According to Gilligan Kelly told him something explosive which he didn't tell the Newsnight journalist, which Gilligan sat on, didn't mention in his notes, and suited Gilligan's need for a great story just when he needed it. Also Gilligan had had the story for some time but he said it was new. Gilligan was the only one with a provable lie.
The press descended on Kelly, looking for the leak, possibly saying something Kelly had never said, Kelly was depressed, his life had not worked out, he killed himself.
If the Iraq WMD's questions had been solved at the end of Gulf War One he would of either moved up in civil service management of taken a job in education, a Professorship say, and would now be retired with the sort of pension he wanted to live on, in stead of staying where he was, respected but not well paid, too poor to live the life he wanted.
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T-minus 15 minutes...
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Where did I put that empty bottle...
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D. McNick (36)
Go, man, I'll keep you posted..!
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Eddie, a straight question; where is that Grauniad report?
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What's the time? yes or no!!!
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10 minutes...
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Now back to the Haywood story.
A green bean is nice, but a pee is a relief.
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Trafigura?
Suspect "Not tonight, Joseph."
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Nine minutes to Eggheads...
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Good interview with Baroness Deech - the European idea of the "default regime" would benefit the country. Agh, Love!
Great news that justice has finally been done for Mrs Haywood. She is the sort of person who should be getting an award!
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Now the Scottish football museum...
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Re Joseph Walker 37 - the media tell us that the UK all but rules the world - we have found out that we don't that's why we're humiliated.
Also Parliament passes laws that restrick what government can do - that's probably a good thing but it means that ministers have very little real power. Yet the media want to blame them for everything and thereby imply that they have power. When we find out they haven't we get disillusioned.
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45/46 etc
There couldn't have been much interest in the story.
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And the weather. I'm not hanging around for the 6 o'clock news. I read about it in the Indy tomorrow.
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#8,9 this charity is seeking funds so it probably over egged the pudding as to the state of children's well being. That said I think more council houses and less emphasive on families being poor if their income is below a fraction of a national average. They might have more money but pay more rent to private landlords.
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What happened there then..? I suspect an 'editorial decision' has been made.
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Curiouser and curiouser. You must be right Joseph, though Eddie@4 hinted they might cover something.
He's such a tease.
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Too much background noise from the live broadcast with James.
A grieving but a very proud mother, very poignant and a reported very sensitively.
Too much background noise from the live broadcast from H H in Westminster.
Re above comment, Ed…apology accepted!
But why can’t the BBC have a studio in the H of P?
Nils with Bagpipes, a nice touch.
:-p
But still another fine PM Pizza of news and current affairs.
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johnathanmorse (50)
The Government still got their war. Not much restricting went on there. They also got their de-regulated financial industry. I don't remember much Parliamentary effectiveness there either.
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Sprouty, the Westminster Lobby is noisy. What can they do? Tell everyone to 'hush up'? Can't see that going down too well.
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#24 implies that Iraq was no threat because it was so poor because of sanctions, yet Korea is poorer and they've made their own nukes and have the beginnings of a delivery system.
I'm glad we went into Iraq and think that it was the civil war caused by fundamentalist muslims that caused all the pain. They need to stop western consumerism which will do to their religion what it's done to Christianity - turn it into a part time hobby not a means whereby they can control the world.
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Oops, pushed the mods too far with my final '5' in the countdown. Apparently it was spam. Are they people or machines that do that job?
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#53. jonathanmorse
Interesting you say that as this afternoon I went to Luton town centre and there were a lot of Chuggers acting on behalf of the NSPCC.
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Joseph Walker 60, cyborgs I think!
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JW #57 one man one vote's great if you're the one man with the one vote, otherwise you have to accept the tyranny of the majority. Parliament correctly guessed that the electorate would re-elect them even if they invaded Iraq, so that's Parliament doing their job.
Anybody who lets their son join the military licences the government to send them to die anywhere.
As for the financial crisis, everybody supported the government policy or thought it regulated too much, and no one spotted it coming. Some saw that certain assets were worth more than traditional calculations suggested, but that's not the same as spooting what happened and if you saw it coming you would be able to accurately predict when it ends ...
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Is this the right place for the 'Yes or No' question?
(I thought there'd be 100's but I can't find any.)
OK, here's mine:
Dear MP, if your party wins the next election will you promise not to introduce identity cards?
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Often, when politicians answer yes/no the questioner doesn't like it, interrupting with a new question, as making politicians look like they don't want to answer questions is more important than getting to the truth - they keep pushing until they have a question with no yes/no answer.
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20
Because finance is a public good and should be publically owned and because we aren't borrowing much anyway.
The idea that we are has been shown on this blog to be a combination of a Cameron distortion and media hype.
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I have a yes/no question-
Do you agree that the current economic mess is mainly the fault of greedy,incompetent bankers and financiers ?
If the answer is "yes" a supplementary question-
Should these bankers rather than public sector workers be the ones to
pay the most to sort it out?
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Why did Al Qieda attack the Twin Towers on 9/11?
It's always explained by reference to the US occupying the land of others.
But I wondered at the time (and now is a good time to re - consider it because we are more relaxed now about both the attack itself and the firms the Towers housed) to what extent it was an attack on Western perfidy.
The companies in the Towers
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/americas/2001/towers/north.stm
seem a fair cross section of the companies that now we see as involved in financial practices which demand more caution than some showed. (Ehem!)
But the notion that the West colonises the modern world with financial trickery, giving the rest of the world bits of paper to hold on to (electronic entries in file somewhere, even) in return for oil and manufactures and land might not be one that Bin Ladin was opposed to (Ehem!)
In this light 9/11 may be like
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom_and_Gomorrah
I mean - I hasten to add - according to more modern interpretations and metaphor where the twin cities may seem to be a nest of knaves and crooks.
Of course it is the companies that we know about in detail and who may be thought suseptible to criticism, rather than the people, individuals, who so tragically died there.
And anyway, of course, I hardly need say, that death is scarcely the right retribution, divine or otherwise, for economic policies which at worst cause inequalities in wealth, income and possibly life expectancy, (Ehem!)
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The MP's expenses scandal raises deep questions about economic equality which this blog from time to time considers earnestly but which PM doesn't ever.
Worse, Parliament doesn't, even though it is constructed on a simple prinicple of equality which counts everyone equally worthy.
Equality in net worth should be an aim of any decent society, in the long or short run.
Shouldn't more be said on PM and in Parliament about it?
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I enjoyed the blog tracking down the Trafigura and Barclays matters.
I thought DMcN's incisive link easily the most useful.
Thank you, DMcN.
(PS You can go to the loo now.)
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Found the interview with the mother whose son was killed in Iraq to be very insensitive. To ask whether she felt guilt regarding her inability to dissuade him from joining the armed forces was especially crass.
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I switched on mid way through the prog on the drive home. The lovely Harriet Harman was talking, then I stopped to get fuel so missed the end of her sound bites. Did she finish with a backward flip? It was a pool she was in wasn't it? Did she have a flowery cap and goggles? Was she with a group of boy scouts? Do tell.
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So what's better, equality for everyone or let people better themselves and help the rest of us up.
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Re the nurse's story, it is a typical British NHS scandal, and why has she not been compensated for her lost job, for the twisted accusations also for pay and damages. Some thing like that could give a person post traumatic stress or shock leading to the balance of the mind becoming disturbed and then suicide. So why hasn't an employment lawyer volunteered to help her? AND DID BBC LEAVE HER HIGH AND DRY - please let us know someone. Shame on the lawyers profession and this government for the state of our hospitals - worst in EU.
As to the Looternite question. 12 years of Labour should have raised us up to Scandinavian standards in every respect!They had the money.
And joking aside it is really hopless that PM did not report on the Guardian writ - or on my issue re the Dickensian state many of our kids and families are in. SO WHAT IS THE POINT OF THIS BLOG - AS WE HAVE BEEN GOING ON ABOUT THE GUARDIAN THING ALL DAY?
PS FEED BACK HAVE POLITICAL EDITOR NICK ROBINSON ON THE NEXT PROG AND ASKED FOR VIEWS IN TIME TO PUT TOGETHER A PANEL - THERE MAY STILL BE TIME TO COMPLAIN RE THE NO MENTION OF pm OF OUR CONCERNS - AFTER OUR PARTICIPATION EFFORT.
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To 63. At 6:24pm on 13 Oct 2009, jonathanmorse
re "As for the financial crisis, everybody supported the government policy or thought it regulated too much, and no one spotted it coming. Some saw that certain assets were worth more than traditional calculations suggested, but that's not the same as spooting what happened and if you saw it coming you would be able to accurately predict when it ends ..."
Some experts like Max Keiser ( a financial Guido Falks) did see it coming - you should tune into him on YOU Tube... he knows his stuff and lets us know in real speak what is going on not in BBC bla bla tricky speak.... Max used to be on BBC World news but I guess he got too hot for them because he seems not to be there now. Anyone know?
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(74) You should know by now Pithy that whilst Eddie is not as arrogant as Paxo or as scary as Humphreys, he only occasionally picks up blog suggestions.
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76
and the programme is all the worse (and undynamic) for that!
I have just sent my formal complaint in....Let's not hold our breath!
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and re the Blair Peach story? Surely, given the context we could have been referred back to what is happening with the Ian Tomlinson issue? I have asked endlessly but I don't think BBC people bother reading these blogs... I think the blogs are here as a diversion to stop us bothering to complain. Well?
At least this Blog, written by the listeners, is so often more informative than the Today prog (no blog) or PM itself... What do we pay the licence fee for?
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Just because the BBC is a publicly funded organ and a bastion of democracy and free speech (apparently)doesn't mean the listener has a voice as such, just ears and a blogroll.
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Interesting item on pre-nup agreements.In Portugal,one of the smallest and poorest of the EU states they have a simple and reasonable system which they share with their former colony Brazil,where I was married.No need for lawyers or a cold douche on romance.The couple simply select one of three "regimes" of marriage before the ceremony. "Separacao de bens" in which each retains goods in their individual names throughout the marriage,"Communiao de Bens" in which everything owned before and after is shared, and the much more usual "Aquisicao de Bens" in which what was owned individually before marriage is retained and that aquired during the course of it shared.Pity British courts don`t recognise this if you marry abroad under this system and are divorced in Britain.
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75
The people who saw it coming include those who caused it.
Greenspan did in the US exactly what cuased the dead decade in Japan.
You don't believe the crunch was deliberately precipitated? Well, an easier one is the Howe contraction, cutting government spending as we went into a recession, which caused the lost decade of Thatcher unemployment.
Deliberately created to tame, this time China and incipient socialism in the US and here, last time, under Thatcher, working people and their organisations.
Without the decision to 'crunch', the boom would have continued. Look at how we are being invited to conjure money out of thin air in stock and property booms all over again. And such booms will happen time and time again, with us getting oil, land and manufactures for nothing - worthless entries in sterling to our suppliers - until we either acknowledge the immorality of it ourselves (prob. = a vanishingly small number - look who we're planning should be Prime Minister next) or until the world unites against us and throws us off its shoulders like the parasites we've become.
Let's worry about hte people who propose Howe-type policies all over again - the Tories. End? In a years time it will all restart with a vengance.
Good night.
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John Nicol the Tornado Navigator shot down during Gulf War 1 and paraded by Saddam on TV was on BBC2's Newsnight saying that the Turkish airfields were using to enforce the northern no fly zone protecting the Kurds were also being used by the Turkish to attack the Kurds?
Saddam attacking Kurds is bad, but turning a blind eye to the Turks doing it was OK as we were using their air space and airfields?
How does that work then? What was the invasion of Iraq for?
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Hello.
Just wanted to say a couple of things in response to the AM and PM Glass Box. We did indeed look into the Guardian story. As you can see from an earlier post of mine, we were planning at our 11.00 meeting to do something on it. In the end, it didn't get on the air. There is nothing sinister in that - and I provided a link hours before the programme right here. Which brings me to my second thought.
The AM Glass Box is very useful for us as it's like having all its contributors in our 11.00 meeting. It has ideas we hadn't thought of and perspectives we hadn't considered. But our editorial meetings are FULL of good ideas which don't make it onto the air. I mean...if I had MY way...all MY ideas would be on the show every night and BOY it would be great. But of course that's not how it works, there is an editorial process as we discuss and debate each suggestion. The number of stories that are discussed but never make it onto the programme each day must run into dozens. But we all understand that's how it works, and we come in the next day with new ideas. So while it is a pain in the neck not to get your idea on - especially when you hear an item which DOES make it which you consider to be inferior - but it's just how it works. In the end, the editor decides, and there are a host of factors. The time we have, the resources available...are we able to tell a story properly...is the guest we need available...would it be better to hold a complex story for another day when the resources/people/guest are available?
In short...don't be put off because your good stuff doesn't make it. Just do what I do. Blame the editor.
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Eddie - the fact that we get tetchy when our ideas are not used, and all want to have a say in what goes into PM - doesn't that just show how much we value it? I'm tempted to think that there was probably little to be said about the Carter Ruck business that hadn't already been said ... and of course PM is not there just to repeat what everyone else is saying. I for one would rather have the City of Adelaide story than a rehash of Carter Ruck.
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EtE 70, It is now tomorrow....and I didn't wet the bed.
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Eddie, It wasn't my idea to do the Guardian story. You, more or less, promised it. I really couldn't have cared less. Just keeping myself amused.
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No David, I didn't more or less promise anything. At the time of writing my post, it was in my plans, and for the reasons I've outlined above, it didn't make it.
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Eddie@83: thanks for your outline and explanation. I had a theory that, as the parliamentary question is not being asked until Thursday, PM would be holding fire until then. Very interesting to see how many factors contribute to what does and does not make it on the air.
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As a matter of fact Lady Sue we AGAIN spent a long time discussing the story in our meeting today. After yesterday's experience I hesitate to say what we're planning in case for some reason it doesn't make it. But at the moment we hope to have a discussion between the press and the legal profession about Super-Injunctions.
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Eddie 87, And we know about politicians and 'plans' and 'no plans' to do things.
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Mmmmmm, gettng a bit defensive, aren't we?
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JohnathanMorse (63)
"Parliament doing their job". Well it depends what you mean by "their job". While MP's priority is to be re-elected, they also have a responsibility to behave intelligently and to do the right thing. The fact that our democracy is structured in such a way as to allow MP's to confidently predict their own re-election despite allowing Government to lead the country into an unnecessary, violent and cruel war says far more about the state of democratic representation and its processes in this country than it does about Parliament working properly.
Regarding the financial crisis. Again, there were plenty of informed voices that predicted a collapse. These voices were nearly to a person silenced, sidelined and marginalised by economic and political power in preference to short-term political and economic gains. Again the importance of a Parliament and government to act responsibly and wisely was easily swept aside by interests whose only priority is to increase their power.
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Thanks Eddie - was amused by the newsletter today and will be listening this evening with interest.
Grow up David.
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You asked for yes or no questions for politicians. Try these.
You have promised the country a referendum on the E.U. constitution a.k.a. the Lisbon treaty, will you keep your promise?
As a secondary.
Can we ever believe your promises?
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Troll, troll, troll...
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I would just like to add my disquiet at Eddie Myers interview with the lady who had lost her son in Afghanistan. It was bad enough that he asked if her anger at Tony Blair was because she had lost her son but to push the point was crass in the extreme. Personally I am against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, something we got involved with because thats what the USA wanted to do, not what the UK would have done. But I support the troops, because they have a very tough job to do. With friends having served in Iraq and currently serving in Afghanistan, I would regret their deaths but the fact they died would not change my attitude to our government. I would like to hear an apology from Eddie Myer for what I hope he would see as a mistake.
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Sorry just noticed my incorrect spelling of Mair.
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