The PM Glass Box.
In days of yore, if you didn't like something on PM, you could fume to us in a private letter, or write to Feedback and hope they'd read it out.
Not any more. Each weeknight in this public forum, which is moderated by people independent of the production team, you can say what you think of tonight's PM. Tonight's PM editor Eloise Twisk, will read your comments and may well add her own.
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Berry nice.
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I would like to see someone pursuing Tony Blair about his involvement in the arms deal with Tanzania. I think that it could be the end of his European presidency aspirations
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It should be easy to identify which children have been abuse: they'll be the seriously disturbed ones.
Dry.
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I must get a new pair of specs.
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I'd like to see Tony Blair investigated for having consciously and deliberately deceived parliament and the electorate over the credibility of the evidence for invading Iraq.
Dry.
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Dryopithecus - assuming you're not just being flippant - how can you spot a seriously disturbed child?
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The Lisbon Treaty debate between the two students helped illustrate the effect of the propaganda campaign for the 'Yes' vote. How on earth would voting 'Yes' bring more jobs? This campaign is merely playing on the fear of unemployment levels rising. It is generally accepted that the only job that will be guaranteed if the 'Yes' vote is successful is Brian Cowen's.
We voted 'No' before and I will certainly be voting 'No' again tomorrow.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Thunderbird 2 and Dryopithecus 5...I am in agreement with your prposed investigations.
Likewise try and breathe life back into the SFO investigation into BAE and the Saudia Arabia.
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I'd like to see TB pursued over the edge of Beachy Head
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I have a living will, but in no way do I believe that such a thing should be used to enable a suicide, for that serves only to abuse something that is a really good idea.
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These child abusers make me feel sick and that goes for film directors who have sex with 13 year olds.
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Once again there is to be a referendum in Ireland that may afffect the European Union. Unfortunately some of the people taking part are going to look at their narrow nationalistic position.
I am all for referendums but European referendums should be exactly that, European matters.
Therefore the only fair European referendum should be Europe wide, all the citizens should take part and all the votes collected together and counted.
This will end this petty "what's in it for our country or let's give the government a kicking" attitude.
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I am having issues with understanding why members of the BNP can't be teachers or police officers, but members of Labour can be? Labour gave us the Dodgy Dossier, the illegal invasion of Iraq and Teflon Tony took £35M of Clare Short's development aid for Tanzania to spend on educating kids and blew in on a ATC system for military aircraft from BAe?
Can you see what he did there? Didn't he just launder taxpayers money? He's a pot of cash for Tanzanian kids and gave it to BAe. Never mind the school kids in Tanzania I am sure the middle man spent his £12M cut wisely - trickle down economics and all that.
I am not sure that the BNP are anymore objectionable than the lying, undemocratic and unaccountable Labour party.
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Nice chat with the Irish students.
So what would be the distribution losses in running a cable from the west coast of Ireland to Germany then?
If they vote yes I may have to boycott Guinness.
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Sid, 6: With hindsight, my comment does look a bit flippant. The situation does raise some awkward questions, when one thinks about it.
First, it follows that either none of the children was seriously harmed or, on the other hand, it seems that even the best psychiatrists are unable to identify serious sexual abuse in a child.
Next there is the question of the need to know.
If a child is identified as one of the victims, s/he is likely to be enrolled for counselling.
If, however, the child is not displaying any symptoms, could counselling do more harm than good?
If a child is identified as one of the victims, anyone who knows of this, including the parents and other carers, teachers, etc, may always be looking for symptoms and may falsely identify aspects of the child's behaviour as evidence of abuse.
The same may happen even if the victims are not identified. Childen who were not involved may then become labelled as victims.
It's a whole can of worms, isn't it?
Dry.
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Dryopithecus 16, good point well raised. Doing 'good' could actually create more 'harm'.
Well thought out, perhaps you should be a Social worker on the Child Protection Teams.
SG
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I felt very torn listening to the account of the woman who asked doctors to let her die leading to the moral debate about the extent to which her wishes should be respected. There have been debates on pm before on similar issues such as assisted suicide and the question of how much control we can have in our lives and our deaths. I believe this woman's misery and depression was caused in part by her inability to have children and her failed fertility treatment. Whatever the moral complexities and having personal experience in our family, one thing is certain fertility treatment and the desperate urge for parenthood with the heightened expectation of success and the dread of failure does cause deep anxiety. In our family we came through by adopting but we can empathise with that deep well of sadness. Those women lucky enough to become pregnant naturally may find hard to imagine. Technology brings as much sadness as joy. I hope her family find peace of mind.
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Dryopithecus - a can of worms indeed.
The main problem is that a seriously/serially abused child is as likely as not to become withdrawn/compliant/secretive, and difficult to distinguish from a child who is just very shy. You can't tell by looking.
Counselling is probably called for for the adults involved. For the children, at this age, it's unlikely to be helpful, though other therapeutic activities can help. Many activities can be used to improve their self-image and trust and so on - and these wouldn't have any adverse effect on unabused children (and wouldn't therefore make them feel like victims if they weren't).
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I would like to see T Blair investigated for becoming an RC.
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After following the BAE episode for some time I'm still wondering if the government is going to defend Bribery and Corruption in British industry with the argument that as it's OK because it protects British jobs. They should think of all those people who the government refers to as Benefit cheats who often resort to fraud as a means to survive and compare this to the millions and billions paid out in backhanders to win contracts overseas. Then again we've been corrupt for years, as General Melchett said in Blackadder when he compared the good old british spies to the filthy hun spies.
Let's hope there is a prosecution into the corruption and then after that they can go after all the businesses who have been cheating the taxman out of income through their shady business practices for years.
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I'm sorry that you feel the child abuse case is a can of worms. It's more than that, a lot more!!!!
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Sympathetic to the US?
http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90777/90851/6775919.html
Actuallly, 4 paragraphs in, yesterday's truths begin to emerge,
Not quite how Nato would have us see it!
A General said today
However, the cruel irony is that, in order to succeed, we need patience, discipline, resolve and time.
Have Nato been lacking them to date, then?
The whole speech is at
http://www.iiss.org/recent-key-addresses/general-stanley-mcchrystal-address/
Let us hope this war is not for Obama what Vietnam was for Johnson, but I think it probably is.
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us 22, OK, it's two cans of worms.
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Can we sue T Blair for the cruelest claim believed by so many gullible voters (not even Sun readers)who fell for the now hollow sounding message 'Things can only get better'. Better? Better than what? being hung out to dry by sleeze, corruption, smug hedge fund managers and for leading the most hypocritical and immoral Labour Government in living memory. Being a catholic Tony can of course go to confession and wash away those nasty old venial and mortal sins. That's two Hail Marys, an Our Father and a Gin and Tonic.
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I shouldnt be moderated because of my comments! I was born a catholic!
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Is the news finally sinking in that China and Japan are getting rid of their US securities holdings?
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=%5Eftse4
(The Dow crash runs across the top)
Zoellick argued as much (following Buffewt from April), in Istanbul on Sunday. (Mervyn and Darling were there listening):
http://www.postcourier.com.pg/20090929/business05.htm
Japan holds .7245 trillion dollars of US debt, China .8 trillion, the world as whole 6.5 trillion.
Chinese capitalists' fear of admiting they were wrong and Japan's post Aug 6th 1945 fear of America seem to be the only things keeping the dollar from becoming scrap paper.
The withdrawal of world credit was the CRUCIAL PHASE in the slide through slump to war in the 1930s as America, the young insurgent power then, challenging German re-emergence. It of itself, of course, accentuated the slump. Germany became increasingly beligerent. Now China is the insurgent and it is her withdrawal of credit to America, that threatens......
Well, America in Afghanistan is supposed to be on a knife edge (though personally I think all roads lead to MORE WAR by Nato there)
Certainly China (see my 23 and the first link it contains) is offering sympathetic coverage of US troubles there, despite the coffins of civilians in Afghanistan. But then Chamberlain thought Hitler placatable.
These sudden falls, Dow over 2 per cent down as I write, suggest we are beginning to see if not that crucial phase, then certainly fear of it.
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ExpectingtheEnd (27)
I completely agree.
I wish that there were a more people with the courage of your convictions.
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http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=%5Eftse
Sorry, that should be hte proper first link in 27.
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27
I particularly liked the analogy you drew between President Hu Jintao and Neville Chamberlain.
Very clever!!
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Thanks, S-G. It's nice to know one is appreciated.
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Sid, 19: That's makes me feel a little better, thanks. Counselling the parents (I assume that's whom you mean) may be the best way to help the children.
On the other hand, there are other adults who will know of the case, and other children, too.
Dry.
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pea-man - you are mac and I claim my £5.
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On the third hand, the professionals who will deal with the case will probably have a lot of experience, so perhaps I'm worrying unnecessarily.
Dry.
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Dry....you do seem sincerely worried, I hope you will be ok.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8257153.stm
Malawi windmill boy with big fans?
OK, so while he's doing that, Blair was busy using Clare Short's aid meant for schools in Tanzania 'converted' to a military ATC system from British Aerospace?
How many little windmill builders could have been created in Tanzania if that money had been spent in the schools?
Is the corruption in getting this system authorised to sell to Tanzania the only crime committed in that deal?
How many kids in Tanzania could have been educated with the £12M cut that middle man took?
It's not just in Britain that Labour have failed to reduce child poverty?
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Back to the Irish and the vote.
If it was practical due to losses in cables to somehow get electricity from the from wind turbines west coast of Ireland to Germany what difference does the European Constitution make?
You can't do attempt such a project without a European Constitution?
Secondly, if we're fighting in the name of democracy and freedom in Afghanistan how come Ireland has a better constitution than us?
Their constitution says they have to have a vote on it, but ours says Gordon Brown can just do it for us with a pen?
It's great to be British eh?
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L_M 36: Many years ago (before the invasion of Iraq) I suggested to my MP that Blair was a dangerous control freak and needed to be stopped before he did any real harm.
The problem is that Blair is such a good confidence trickster that everyone believes he's sincere. (Perhaps he is sincere, in which case he's seriously deluded.) Let's hope this latest fiasco stops him once & for all.
Dry.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Sid, 19: Having slept on this, I've two addenda to my previous post (34)
Since they will have been subjected to internal examinations, all of them may now be disturbed.
If the available counselliing won't harm any kids, whether or not they need it, then the best option will be not to investigate them further but just to counsel all of them.
Dry.
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iC 39: I don't know about the others you mention, but Whoopi Goldberg is a pitbull with an attitude and a fearsome brain. I don't think she has anything to fear from moral extremists.
Dry.
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Headline seen on my way here. Nude scene "scared" soap star!
No - surely not!
Not thinking about somebodys hopefully one off appearance on East Enders at all - with or without clothing on - allegedly - lol - I think I have mentioned before – watching bad acting – again - allegedly - is physical painful to me.
So when Eddie mentioned Carolyn was to be introducing todays PM – my look of abject disappointment – didn’t last long. It was torture trying to keep it up and was replaced by a somewhat idiotic grin.
It was confirmed Mr Mair would be (aw)OL when he said just now, during the Today programme, that the Jury would hear the questions at the same time as we the Any Question listeners would. Sorted!
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Dry @ 40
"Since they will have been subjected to internal examinations, all of them may now be disturbed."
I'd be very surprised if they had - without even knowing which ones they were.
"If the available counselliing won't harm any kids, whether or not they need it, then the best option will be not to investigate them further but just to counsel all of them."
As I said before, at this age conventional 'counselling' (of the 'talking' variety) won't be appropriate - but there are many games and activities designed to foster self-esteem and trust which can be used with all children. I'd say they need to get some experts in, partly to have more hands on deck, partly to keep an eye out for potential disturbances, partly to organise relevant activities ...
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Ref 23. ExpectingtheEnd
Thanks for the General McChrystal transcript.
McChrystal’s confession that their performance in Afghanistan has been inadequate, citing failures to co-ordinate properly and admitting they’ve even struggled with their own chains of command, indicates levels of incompetence that would not be tolerated in most organisations. In defence of the military commanders, he revealed to the audience that it was “a very different culture,” “with language differences” “a difficult terrain” “it is also a tribal society.” I think a trip to the library in 2001 would have told him that. He clearly thought his recently discovered insight, ‘kill one insurgent and you create ten more,’ would be received as a pearl of wisdom, yet this was pointed out eight years ago. His speech was as hopeless as General Richard Dannatt’s performance, who only requested more helicopters in his final months.
Can McChrystal deflect blame onto others? Hardly. “I arrived in Afghanistan in May 2002 and I have spent a part of every year since then involved in the effort.”
What is the situation now General McChrystal? “The situation is serious. My assessment and my best military judgment is that the situation is, in some ways, deteriorating”
The longer it goes on, the worse it gets!
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Ref 40. Dryopithecus
Some of these parents need a reality check. What sort of parents send children (babies) aged 12 and 18 months to a nursery? The story reveals a very casual approach to parenting by some - they should be looking at their own behaviour - but I bet many are consulting lawyers to see if they're entitled to compensation.
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Until I find the am glass box for Friday (which doesn't seem to exist), I'm going to splash this around in the hope that someone may see it.
I loathe the BNP as much as anyone, but as long as they're a legitimate political party, we must treat them as such.
The question is: why are they allowed to persist as a legitimate political party? Can nothing be done to remove this status of ban them altogether?
Dry.
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47 Dry
I suppose the reason has to be that we have a democracy (albeit a very incomplete one) and that we allow free speech. However vile we consider the views of the BNP to be, to take away their rights would in a sense be to restrict the rights of all of us.
The best approach is to take on their arguments at every turn and show the BNP up for what it really is.
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Richard (46), all kinds of perfectly good and loving parents send their children to nursery or child minders for all kinds of perfectly good reasons. To suggest that in the wake of these dreadful events their first thought is of litigation rather than their children is insulting.
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we take our 22 month old to nursery for the odd day in some weeks. To see the sad little tots dumped there daily wandering around begging for hugs from everyone and looking 'lost' makes me wonder why their parents had them. I guess they think they can have it all.....but there is a price, I wish they would stop hiding from this.
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Unfortunately we have a government which thinks that society will by and large be better off if parents go to work and put their children in nurseries than if they stay at home and look after them.
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Sid (51) It's a sad fact that both this government and society force parents to need to be better off, to keep their homes and families intact.
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ingeniousCliff (50) I would suggest that if that is how other chilren behave at your child's nursery, then you ought to be looking for a place at another nursery.
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Gillian (51&52) - I don't think that the UK is very much different to its European neighbours with respect to working parents and the use of creches/nurseries.
I also couldn't understand why one would want to use a nursery where the little tots are 'dumped' and look 'lost'!
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Never mind about any referendum on Europe, what we need is one on the special relationship we have with America. The rest of the world sees us as America's poodle, and small wonder. One Trident missile has enough independently targetted warheads to destroy America commercially. A submarineful could destroy America, full stop. No American president - not even G W B - would have sold it to us without retaining control over it. When one nation controls another's primary defence system, they control that country. Thanks Mrs T!
Want more? America's ballistic missile defence would have meant the radioactive debris would possibly have fallen on this country. The revised boost phase system will result in complete warheads possibly landing on this country.
It is very difficult to believe that we had any choice in whether to go into Iraq or Afghanistan, we were instructed to if we wanted to keep our place at the 'top table'. Ally? Don't make me laugh.
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m 55, As an American living in GB, you make me laugh.
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Tickle, tickle, tickle!
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