AM Glass box for monday
Have you got any ideas about what you'd like to hear in tonight's programme? If so, put your ideas in the AM glass box. Amanda Lewis is editing today.
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The blog for the afternoon news and current affairs programme presented by Eddie Mair.
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Bankers; Why is there so much debate about how their bonuses are paid? Surely the debate should be about whether these positions with nonsensical pay packets should exsist at all?
MPs spouse employment; I suggest they stop moaning or get out and get a proper job...Perhaps a postman/woman. Lets see how you feel about the future of your kids school fees then!
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As a former Journalist the start of the trial of Radovan Karadzic brings back memories of reporting the break up of the former Yugoslavia.
At this time I hope that the media does not just focus on the crimes of the Bosnian Serbs since there were no innocent parties in this conflict.
All the former Presidents of the six republics were responsible for triggering this war for the simple reason that they would not talk and try to compromise.
However the two who stand out were Franjo Tudjman and Slobodan Milosevic both of whom have gone on to other things since that time!
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I guess that now he is on trial for war crimes it is very unlikely that Mr Karadzic will ever become the unelected president of Europe.
I wonder who will?
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Ah, Ms Quinn. Could I suggest PM getting an advertisment guru in and answering a few questions on why? Why are left handed drive cars shown in TV adverts clearly made for the British market judging by the actors and language spoken. Why are NO drivers shown in some car adverts - news media and TV - where cars are whizzing down some anonymous highway somewhere. Is that safe? Why is the human divorced from the alleged object of desire?
And why doesn't Michael Win(t)ner now sponsor PMs version of the weather forecast? Making it now, allegedly only TWO weathers sponsored by "him, Michael Win(t)ner?"
Clive James ended his point of view with two ways of saying the the same words. “What does he know?/what DOES he know?”
Ms Ubiquitous. What does she look like? I mean what DOES she look like? I am not being rude, honestly but I see different pictures of her all over the place and have to check text at bottom of picture which gives her Id. I claimed last week I think I notice stuff.
But I have a blank spot as far as certain celebrities go. Various USA male and females film stars too. You know - like people in the movies not being Aloud to put two and two together – the likeness of Superman and Clark Kent - and making 4.
Odd or what?
Ms Ubiquitous - she looks so different - made up to the eenth degree seemingly. Take all the "slap" off – would we recognise her? You see Clive. "He" know absolutely nothing! lol
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Good morning, Sequin, good to see you here, particularly as you had your late night stint yesterday. I was very impressed at the relaxed manner of your discussion with two MPs, whose names for now escape me, but, when I tried to listen again this morning (having only been able to devote one ear last night) I was dismayed to find that the Westminster Hour isn't available. Is this just because it hasn't yet been put on the iPlayer?
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"Primary school children are to get careers advice from the age of seven under a new scheme to encourage them to develop aspirations early on in life.
Under plans drawn up by Schools Secretary Ed Balls, primaries will offer career-related learning, as well as opportunities to experience university life and the world of work, to children aged 7-11."
And if that wasn't bad enough...
"Careers advice will be made available through internet social networking sites like Facebook and YouTube and a dedicated online mentoring scheme, and a £10 million fund will support innovative careers education."
Social networking for seven year olds?? I don't know where to start with how fatuous an idea this is...
BBC story: http://tinyurl.com/yh7z979
Press Association Linky: http://tinyurl.com/yfuabgh
Hasn't childhood been shortened - and ruined - enough in the last thirty years with testing and performance leagues without pressuring children towards the world of work so young??
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Following on from H-H@6, I suspect that the 'government' has no qualms about spouting nonsense like this since they know they will be out on their ear quite soon. Perhaps they wouldn't be getting the boot if they didn't keep messing up matters as vital as the education service with 'initiatives'.
A lot of airquotes there. Sorry.
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How anyone, anywhere thinks they're entitled to a higher standard of living htan anyone else, anywhere else, escapes me completely.
How can anyone can pay anyone less than the average income and take more themselves?
Marx socialism of Critique of the Gotha Programme, '....to each according to his abilities', is dead.
Economic equality is all!
We're all doing what we can
Whether carrying pictures of Mao or not.
Lawyers, banksters, doctors, radio presenters, CEO's, Cabinet Ministers...., the whole darned shooting match. All are overpaid by the amount they're getting, to live and enjoy, above anybody else.
(Banksters bonuses were down 30 per cent, owing to the crunch, but the 7.4 per cent increase on their + 2 million 'basic' salaries, giving them on average a 150,000 INCREASE, meant they lost out by little more than an MP's salary - small change to them.)
It's a carve up all the way round.
"http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/10/the_economy.shtml#P87571836
So, Eddie, an item on wealth, income and work EQUALITY. please. (I score you one out of three on those, which is very good for a BBC wallah).
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Mac (8) Seeing as how you are once again espousing the philosophy that the Khmer Rouge implemented so "well" in Cambodia, I have to wonder how anyone can take your comments seriously. Oh wait, they don't!
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Just as a matter of interest ... (I know I'm going to regret this) ... if my lazy neighbour lies in bed all day, by his own choice, and I work all day, am I not entitled to a slightly higher standard of living than he is?
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This Socialism/Communism debate was discussed last week.
As a person who ticks various left wing boxes ie working class, one of family with eight kids, council house living, secondary modern schooling etc.
I have noticed that the actual views of the oppressed classes is never asked for and in fact Socialism/communism is always debated within the middle classes.
One of my observations is that during the 1920's and 30's how anyone was not a communist is a mystery.
However, how anyone post war and especially 1956 can be a communist is a complete mystery.
There you are: the authentic voice of someone working class.
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Of course you are, Sid. In a similar way we pay through the nose for a specialst design service for our clients, that only a few very trained and qualified people can provide. The chap who provides it earns much more than me and quite rightly so.
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Looternite: Well said.
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11 Ln
Yes, but ...
The failure of the horrific soviet model shouldn't lead us to draw a line under radical social change. It should be seen as a lesson in how not to implement change and not as a justification of status-quo conservatism.
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14 - of couse it shouldn't - I didn't read that into 11. It's a mistake, anyway, to confuse socialism with communism, and I hope Looternite was falling into that error. Mind you, many 'murcans make that mistake ...
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Good morning, Carolyn and Amanda:
I hope that some of the ideas that were bought to the table
will be included into the Daily email alert....
~Dennis Junior~
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I'm not sure this company needs any further publicity, but an interesting story all the same..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8320043.stm
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16 ~~DJ~~.-+=!!"_____)*&*______
Me too!
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Helena [what a lovely name ! ]
Don't be such an old stick in the mud ! Children love to chat and mix with others, so why not go the whole hog and fix them up with those 'headsets' and start training them early to say 'your call is held in a queue and will be answered shortly..'
Or while their having their 'headset hour' [which has replaced numeracy and literacy hour] they could be taught to say 'would you like fries with that ?'
And no doubt the next Balls idea will be the Fisher-Price Activity Contact Centre with flashing lights for 'Calls in Queue' and a button which when pressed goes 'Your call is important to us!'
You see Helena this is the future - embrace that change !!
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I would like to see a piece tying together
1 Supersize Salary/Bonus packages.
2 Why bank employees working with someone else’s money expect a percentage of the profit rather than a percentage of their base salary, as reward for their activities.
3 The effect of extremes in salary differentials on the stability of society.
4 FTSE CEO’s remuneration over the last two years, and, say, the last 30 years.
5 How remuneration for the Chief Executive and other board members is set, and how this affects the remuneration of other senior executives, possibly for their mutual benefit.
6 George Osborne’s proposals on retail bankers’ bonuses
7 How the tax system could be used to influence top salaries. Eg Higher Top rate income tax, Tobin Tax, Windfall Profits tax, 100% Payroll tax (paid by Employers) applied only to Salaries over £500K
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#14. lucien_desgai & #15. Big Sister
I believe that I do know the difference between Communism and Socialism
Now let me explain where I am coming from.
In the early 70's I went to several public meetings held by political parties.
I was invited to a couple of meetings held by the "International Socialists". They became the Socialist Workers Party, I understand, but I could be wrong. I also went to a public meeting of a Maoist/Leninist group. I never joined these groups as I was never convinced by these groups that they had any real answers.
I also worked with an unreconstructed communist who believed that the nation has to be purged for a new society to be built and that Stalin was right. I also new an ex-communist who was asked to leave the party in the early 60's as he felt that immigration was wrong.
I was told by these groups that people like me were important to join as we had "working class credentials".
Apparently I only had my chains to lose.
Mind you these public meetings were in pub back rooms and were not exactly well attended.
Luton was a working town that the various Trotsky, Leninist etc groups felt that they should have a strong presence.
I think that at the time Luton was covered by the "International Socialists" branch based in St Albans.
People like me have had the theology explained and yet we still rejected it.
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Sorry, Looternite, I realise that I mistyped in my post - I realise that you do understand the difference between the two ideologies. The problem is that the term 'socialism' has been highjacked by groups who have wanted to avoid the C word (a bit like the BNP when they rebranded from the National Front). Personally, I see a strong distinction between socialism and communism, and it isn't just about leadership styles ;o)
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Not sure where to ask this, but have the daily newsletters stopped, or did I unsubscribe without noticing? How can I check - I know I haven't received one for a while now.
tod
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Re: careers advice for 7 year olds.
As far as I understand it from the BBC News online article, the intention of this isn't to tie children down to specific careers, but more to encourage them to think more broadly about careers - particularly those from "disadvantaged" areas who don't normally consider further/higher education, or careers that involve studying at that level.
Well, that's the theory at least. Whether it will do anything to motivate children in areas where the whole family / community are not "switched on" to learning (and given "social mobility" is still not increasing, probably don't take advantage of "SureStart" centres and other existing schemes) is another question entirely...
As for social networking, the government have overlooked one crucial fact. Youngsters may be switched onto social networking (although anyone under 13 technically shouldn't be using Facebook - and from my experience, most secondary age children prefer Bebo), but do the government really think they'll listen to messages from "authority"? Surely half the point of being a teenager is rebelling against authority?
If you really want to encourage children from disadvantaged areas to seek decent careers, give 'em some role models from those careers with a high media profile, as opposed to the social outcasts that typically populate "reality" TV shows like Big Bother (first R omitted deliberately!) or X (rated) Factor...
-oOo-
As for mac's argument to pay everyone equally, how would he propose motivating people to seek promotion? I'd say increased salary is as high a motivating factor as increased responsibilities (if not more so!)
Besides which, different salary structures (to a certain extent) reflect the skills, experience and qualifications needed to perform the job adequately.
For example, should a factory worker (a post which could be done by any school leaver, without any qualifications, skills or experience) be paid the same as a senior research chemist (a post which requires a high level MSc, or preferably a PhD - i.e. 10 years more education than the factory worker)? I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of the UK population would disagree.
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Re 23 - Sorry - it's just come :-)
tod
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#24. mittfh
I agree with your post. I will add that 7 to 17 year olds need to be informed of alternatives and that the world of work is rewarding irrespective of the pay level.
The media gives too many younsters the impression that happiness is "loads o' money2 and the way to this happiness is instant fame via a TV prog.
The reason that the far left groups have not got very far is exactly as you say ie the Surgeon should be better rewarded that the cleaner. The people see that as fair.
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Mittfh (24) You seem to have forgotten that Mac holds the belief that anyone who's been to university/polytechnic/further education college in any way, shape or form *has* to then go to work in a factory or in the fields, as they must by definition belong to the ruling elite, and can never make a meaningful contribution to society by, say, being a doctor, an engineer, a chemical scientist, environmental physicist, etc. Any idea that people may actually be rewarded for being good at their specific job is (by Mac's definition) an affront to everyone else....
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Fred, I think you've got mac wrong - I seem to recall he has himself been a lecturer in Higher Education, which would surely, by that logic, qualify him for the sewage farms?
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I didn't say he was consistent in applying the rules to himself, Sis ;-)
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28 BigSis
I agree ... very well qualified indeed.
;o)
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BS @28 - now what made you think of sewage farms? It wouldn't have anything to do with the quality of his comments / rationality of his opinions, would it? Nah, that would be too much of a coincidence... ;)
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#28. Big Sister
One of my class mates after leaving school and after working for various unskilled jobs he went to work at the Luton sewerage treatment plant. He did it for the money, we used to say at the time "yes people will shovel __ if you pay them enough".
Mind you I suspect that now the wages would be nearer minimum wage.
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Nothing wrong with working at a sewage treatment plant, Looternite, and much of it is, I dare say, highly skilled. But I suspect mac thinks otherwise. Speaking for myself, I don't discriminate between jobs, but there are individuals whose opinions that I find very suspect (not you, needless to say), particularly when their point of view appears to be influenced by very large chips on their shoulders. I've never been rich, never been at the receiving end of advantage, beyond being born to two parents who cared sufficiently about their children to try to do their best for them, within their very modest means. I feel fortunate for that, far more than, for example, any individual born into money but whose parents care little for the wellbeing of their offspring.
I'd love to see more equality in the world, but at the root of everything lies the willingness of others to show goodwill towards their fellows.
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#33. Big Sister
I'm not sure these severe leftwing people have neccesarily "Shoulder chips". I consider that although they are atheists they have a dogma based belief, so like a religion, that explains the world as it was, as it is now and as it ought to be.
This belief system uses words that need a leader to explain. You know the words: Didactic, Proletariat, Hegemony, Cadres etc.
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Looternite, you could be right, though I've met some who have definitely gone down that road due to a sense of grievance, and I think this is the case with the person of whom I'm thinking (based upon comments that have been made). Sad really.
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Careers advice for 7 year olds. My daughter keeps telling me that she wants to swim in the Olympics when she grows up. In light of this do you think her head teacher will be able to apply to British Athletics for a grant, sort of get in before the money runs out.
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I see Mr Karadic was supposed to be in court today, but hasn't bothered to turn up. At least he's got a court to go to. With luck, he may be able to prove his innocence. The Bosnian's who were massacred never saw sight of one. At least justice will prevail, we all hope. All we need now is for Ratko Mladic to put in an appearance as a defence witness.
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I can't believe that no one passed comment and I assumed didn’t enjoy the irony on my comment this morning regarding the European president.
Please tell me if I am in my own little sad world.
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Don't worry about the EU president's job. Blair looks like he might have it in the bag. After all he's got a larger CV
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38 Tb
It must be better than this one.
;o)
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Are the Surgeon's parents factory workers and the factory worker's parents doctors?
What greater pleasure in life can there be to be solving the Schrodinger wave equations for some unstable boron salt?
You think Stephan Hawkins unties the knots in string theory for the money?
Wonderful jobs, taking hot board off the presses at the board mills, checking for missing nuts on top of walnut whips, humping paving stones into place, raking tar, cleaning offices and banks, sweeping up leaves from the high street. Thank goodness! Those middle class 16 year olds who feared they'd have to walk on the glass floor just like their parents had to, theirs always to be denied a lifetime of clearing litter in parks, cna now tell their parents how uncaring they would be, making them become teachers like them.
And those years of training. So hard. Now we know why the Oxbridge crew go on endlessly about their college days. Therapy. The memory is so painful for one and all.
I think the people disagreeing with me here should get together somewhear quietly (Facebook?) and sort out your differences. For there is only one thing you have in common and that is the rejection of equality. But your reasons, from doubt about human goodness, to feeling a whole social class 'knows its place' to some sort of to the 'ability' myths, to a view that moral turpitude causes, rather than is caused by, class difference to an appeal to a world where Marx and Thatcher agree, are so very different and downright contradictory.
Your political persuasions, some I know, vary from high Tory to Lib-Dem to various sorts of middle of the road Labour.
I ask 'Are they worried by the people below them? Are they over-impressed by the people above them? Are they resigned to a lot less than the average? Or are they, as some, I think, are just being protective of their especially thick slice of the cake?'
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TB, I thought your Comment so searingly incisive that all who agreed with it would surely see it as the last word - apart possibly to ask when he WILL come to trial- whilst anyone who disagreed with it, did so, lashed by its rhetorical whip. Good on ya'.
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ExpectingtheEnd (42) I guess you'll be out sweeping the streets then today?
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EtE - you probably need to do some reading on the difference between 'equality of opportunity' and 'equality of provision'.
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EtE: So, let's have a look at your "ideal" world in 20 years, shall we?.....
You've decided that all those whose parents are guilty of bettering themselves and providing for their families as best they can are now working in the fields/factories, irrespective of whether this is a good use of manpower, and those left are now those who are to be the doctors, chemists, engineers, designers, etc irrespective of having any aptitude for their designated tasks. Oh joy, what equality(!).
Ah but wait, who has trained these new "professionals" (for want of a better word)? Surely you'll have closed down the universities, colleges, etc? Let's put that on the back burner for the moment, and imagine you've found a way to magically get all the information and skills into their brains without any other person being involved...
But wait, we need have people conducting research into things like cures for cancer, more efficient fuel platforms for transport/transit/homes, etc. So, we're going to need some sort of research institutes to perform these functions, aren't we? Wouldn't we want the best minds involved with these endeavours? No, sorry, I forgot, you want these people to be wasting their abilities elsewhere. After all, Everyone must be equal....
I've said it before earlier in this thread and on countless other threads where you've posted ad nauseam about the need for "equality", and you yet to make any cogent case against it: This system has been tried before. It was tried in Cambodia in the 1970s by the Khmer Rouge. We saw a country and it's citizens taken to the brink of destruction. This is not a "valid proposition", it's a call for barbarism.
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43
Thanks for getting my name right, but sadly my gender and lineage wrong.
I'm not a fourth generation upper middle class chatterer walking the Glass Floor.
But you certainly get the point.
Work, income and wealth equality answer the Fundamental Economic Question, who does which job. It doesn't, at first sight, answer the FEQs, what shall we produce, and how shall we produce it though I think work, income and wealth INequalities distort and perhaps even determine our current answers to those questions.
Well, after the insults and the irrelevancies, the notion of FEQs must surely be grist to the chi-hikers' mill. Three jeers from them, then, coming up. Bring it on.
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EtE @ 46
Don't understand any of that.
Just as a matter of interest, how does Gillianian's #43 indicate your gender or lineage?
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Oh dear.
I believe in majority voting. A majority has got to want it for it to be government policy in my book.
I like cities. Especially Paris.
I don't believe in closing hospitals or schools, or the borders. In fact I believe in an open door immigration policy.
This 'aptitude' thing sounds like part of the Ability Myth, to me.
Ah, the joys of studying at leisurely length stuff that can only really be a class admission ticket, can't it. The Great Tradition ad nauseam, the pseudo science subjects merely creating and protecting privilege,......the cultural transmission of a culture that needs fundamental change....
The right people in these august centres of learning and the right people sweeping the streets, please.
I'm reminded of a school friend who was training to be a doctor. Eventually he had to change subject because of the social class pressure on him. The great thing is, for every one from his/her mean streets the medical schools keeep out or rough-house, they manage to keep out, too, all those s/he would have trained. And their cohorts too.
44. No I don't.
(Hope you don't mind, still trying to find the way to print big here)
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That didn't work either! BIG is as big as I can get it, despite angle brackers and big and a big number as a parameter!
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47
Yeah, it must be just like Lib-Dem policy for the rest of us.
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Mac - OK, so I try to engage, you sneer, I won't try to engage again.
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Sid (51) Unfortunately, that's all Mac appears capable of/willing to do. I see he still hasn't disputed or even answered my comment about how his proposed "equalisation" policy has been tried before, with disastrous consequences.
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Oh, dear, oh dear.
I give you this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/10/the_pm_glass_box_91.shtml#P87425279
and you offer me this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/10/the_pm_glass_box_91.shtml#P87425566
From jeers to sneers. Cheers, Sid. People, he didn't even have the courtesy to correct my spelling. Elective pedantry.
ld answered you in part. Try 1939 to 51 here in Britain. Majority voting, rights. You surely don't want to hear me again on that do you?
It's a valuable technique you've developed here, from your deep study of totalitarianism, no doubt. You claim don't read stuff presented to you on the grounds that it's boring. Then that it's repetitive!!!!!. Then you demand to get it presented to you again. On the grounds it was never presented to you in the first place.
OK. Let's start again. The BBC. The NHS. The Unemployment Benefits system. You make great, and very proper, use of all three institutions, so your long history of posts shows. (I'm glad you were never a banned blogger, as BS feared you were at one time. Otherwise they wouldn't all be under one head)
All three of these institutions are founded on deep notions of equality. Yet you are on record as using the NHS extensively, but NOT bleiving in it's constituting principle. Perhaps the same is true for you in the cases of UBs and the BBC.
Which suggests to me that your criticism of Pol Pot is less useful than mine. I think he was a cruel dictator, a wicked, wicked man. You think he pursued the principles of the NHS, the BBC and the Unemployment Benefit system.
Would that he had. He would have found himself believing in majority voting and rights!!!
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Sorry EtE - not quite sure who you're addressing here.
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Glad your system tells you it's you posting when it is, otherwise you'd be shouting yourself down by now.
That's you addressing me, there. I know that 'cos you got my name right. Well done! You really are coming on a treat.
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EtE @ 55
So - you can't even bring yourself to answer a perfectly straightforward question. Ho hum ...
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EtE, you are getting yourself in a muddle, addressing comments to Sid that should be addressed to me, not bothering to read other peoples comments before replying (and hence completely missing the point that they are making). I'm sure your local library will be able to recommend some simple books that you can practice your reading skills on. Maybe the old Janet & John series would suit you best. After all, they do deal with a simplified, idealised, and totally unrealistic world view, so they'd be right up your alley...
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This is getting like the end of '1900'.
You two disagree about almost everything, except that each sees himself a cut above the average.
And you are, for asking questions time after time after time, that you've already had the answers to a hundred-fold or know the answer to already.
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EtE... I wonder if you can follow this:
In your post at 53, you appear to refer to me (as in 'Cheers, Sid'). But then you say 'you are on record as using the NHS extensively', which can't refer to me (I have been quite fit and healthy all my life). So I just wanted to know who you were actually addressing - otherwise I might be hi-jacking someone else's discussion.
That seems quite reasonable to me - I'm sorry you can't find it within yourself to give a decent response.
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Sid - I shouldn't worry. He's probably had too much of the sub £3 wine.
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But I do worry - he's obviously not feeling himself today.
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Sid, I am shocked! ;o)
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The poor boy is obviously losing the plot. He thinks Sid and I are arguing between ourselves when we're actually in broad agreement and are arguing with him, he addresses Sid when replying to me (while still completely missing the points), etc. I reckon he's nearly at the "wibble" point!
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