AM glass box
Hello, as you may realise, Eddie is doing Any Questions today, I am doing PM and I'm afraid we both thought the other was doing the AM glass box. Doh!
Anyway, here it is. We don't have our meeting till 11am and we are looking for ideas so if anything occurs to you, let us know.
all the best, Carolyn.
Listen to PM
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~05~RS~)
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2016 Olympic Bid
If Chicago win the 2016 Olympics, should they 'donate' it to Baghdad, together with the funding? It would bring employemnt to Iraq, boost economy and leave them with a legacy for the future. If USA is really serious about 'nation building,' this would show their sincerity.
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I read your excuse Carolyn, lets admit it you over slept.
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I loathe the BNP as much as anyone but, as long as they're a legitimate political party, we must treat them as such.
The question is: why are they allowed to persist as a legitimate political party? Can nothing be done to remove this status or ban them altogether?
Dry.
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1 Brilliant idea Richard ... the people of Chicago would jump at the chance to make such a charitable gesture, and the IOC would love the idea especially following the completion of its bidding procedure.
Best of all, and given the security needs of modern olympics, the American military could donate another couple of hundred thousand troops to hang around until 2016 or beyond - how overjoyed the Iraqis would be with such a legacy!
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Dryopithecus (3) - What do you mean by a 'legitimate political party'? I don't think such a status exists.
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3 Dry
I suppose the reason has to be that we have a democracy (albeit a very incomplete one) and that we allow free speech. However vile we consider the views of the BNP to be, to take away their rights would in a sense be to restrict the rights of all of us.
The best approach is to take on their arguments at every turn and show the BNP up for what it really is.
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RSM 1, As GB seems to be making a mess of the 2012 Olympics, maybe they should let Iraq have them.
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Dry 3, How does a party become legitimate?
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#3. Dryopithecus
My father, my uncles and their generation risked their lives fighting against German Nationalists, Italian Nationalists and Japanese Nationalists. Great sacrifices were made by this country to defeat the type of philosophy that drove the fascists, but they also fought for freedom of speech. As a consequence we have to expect groups like the BNP to exist. Nationalists feed on perceived grievances and so gain support. Maybe we should look at why people feel a need to support extremists. "File on 4" a week ago touched on this subject where government money is given to a certain religious group to steer their youth from the extreme path but the indigenous youth get nothing.
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9 Ln
My grandfather actually fought the blackshirts in this country, at Cable Street in 1936 and elsewhere. He'd have gone to fight the nationalists in Spain if my grandmother hadn't forbidden him.
I'm not sure it's helpful, however, to refer to 'certain religious group' and 'indigenous' youth. I don't have the figures but I suspect that most British muslims are indeed indigenous in the sense of being born here. I'd also dispute any suggestion that first generation / immigrant members of our community should be afforded lesser rights than the rest of the community.
My understanding is that 'prevent' money is also going to be spent to fight racism within white communities - but this isn't an issue of equality or inequality, it's one of learning to live together.
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This comment has been referred to the moderators. Explain.
Re the BNP, Whilst they stay within the law on what they say, then we have to accept that in our society, they have a right to exist as a political party. We may not like it, but it is their right to hold such views. As I see it, one of the reasons that they can attract support, particularly in difficult economic times such as now is that when a person/group find themselves losing their job(s, finding life more difficult, one reaction is to find someone to blame for this. Some blame the Bankers, some Capitalism as a whole, some the Government, and some find it easiest to blame those who are different. Maybe they speak a different language, maybe they look different, maybe they believe in a different religion. Whatever the difference is, that becomes the focal point for some, and leads to views like those of the BNP. Taken to extreme, it leads to the hatred we see in extremists of all colours (Al Q'aida, the Nazis, extremist Irish nationalists who are still causing violence, etc.)
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#10 lucien_desgai
My maternal grandfather after fighting in WW1, died of pneumonia in 1932. I am sure he would have been anti-blackshirt as well. My paternal grandfather did not live in England.
My use of terms you refer to is that I am trying to keep within the rules of this blog.
The "File on 4" programme is available on listen again, hopefully the link below will work.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00mr4w5
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Ln 13, As I have said, my maternal grandfather is buried in a US military cemetery in France because of WW1. I never saw him.
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#12. Fearless Fred
We don't always agree, but I am in agreement with your comments.
What is not mentioned in the "File on 4" programme is that a report in the local press said that some of the "prevent money" has not been accounted for and the groups have had to tighten up their accounts procedure. The programme also mentions a arson attack on a mosque, but does not mention an arson attack a few years ago on a Methodist church in the same area.
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#1 - That idea of donating the Olympics is such a masterstroke, such a work of genius it needs further exploration on the show tonight.
Surely the Olympics could be donated to South Africa to help them along ?
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#14. David_McNickle
I'm not that old. I also never saw my maternal grandfather. He is buried in a cementary in Hertfordshire.
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Oh, my goodness, the Ftse has fallen below the 'psychologically significant' 5,000 level.
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16 lBG
Maybe they Olympics should be donated to Tuvalu. It would allow the Pacific island to go out with a bang before it's sunk by the effects of global warming. The sponsorship money could be put towards finding a new home for its population.
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Unemployment in Iraq.
Key conclusions from IAU/UNOCHA report on Iraq earlier this year:
- The economy is unable to provide enough work for 28% of the labour force.
- Unemployment is concentrated and rising among younger men (40% in the 16-19 age group, and over 30% in 20-24 age group)
- Without a concerted effort to boost the private sector, most of the 450,000 new entrants into Iraq’s labour force in 2009 will not find secure jobs.
Working on the principle that ‘the devil finds work for idle hands,’ particularly young men’s hands, re-assigning the 2016 Olypmics to Baghdad would channel young men’s efforts into planning, construction, infrastructure, as well as security. It would also offer a sense of purpose, an investment in their future, and leave them with an Olympic village that could be converted to housing and community facilities.
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Someone's still sore at being found out I see.
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On the legitimacy of the BNP, I wasn't expecting such a flood of responses!
PF 5 & David 8: Are there no legal criteria?
lucien 6&10; Ln 9; lucien 10; Fred 12: Perhaps the question should be whether we should look for ways of banning the BNP. My view is that they should be banned on the grounds that they propagate race-hatred. Your views on the freedom of speech are, however, valid. In the interests of consistency, would you also support the repeal of the terrorism act?
lucien 10: My Concise Oxford Dictionary defines "indigenous" as "native, belonging naturally". The term is often used to refer to a plant or animal that either evolved in the area concerned or has been there since time immemorable or, in the case of the UK, since the ice caps last receded. I therefore think that Ln is technically correct.
The use of the term "native" to describe someone not of white skin is a different matter, being offensive as well as semantically incorrect.
Dry.
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Oh, my goodness, the Ftse has again moved above the 'psychologically significant' 5,000 level.
MARKET DATA - 12:31 UK
FTSE 100 5000.67 down -47.14 -0.93%
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22 Dry
I was using the word 'indigenous' to mean people born in this country. This is a slight re-interpretation but the classical definition would be difficult to apply to the population of the UK. We are an immigrant nation and there are very few descendants of ancient Britons outside of Scotland, Wales and Cornwall.
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Ln 17: I don't remember my maternal grandfather and my father's parents both died when he was a baby, his mother from (I think) some form of post-puerperal illness, his father from exposure to Chlorine gas during the Great War.
War causes a lot of misery while achieving very little, if anything.
Dry.
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#24. lucien_desgai
I have taken a lot of interest over the years regarding this mixed heritage of the peoples of these islands.
All the indigenous peoples are a mix of Celtic, Germanic and Other. Whether we are born in England, Ireland(north or south), Scotland or Wales.
The working classes of the various parts have more in common with each other than with the ruling classes of the regions.
You could say "We are one people divided by accent and petty polititians out for power".
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22 Dry
Even putting the philosophical issue aside I'm not sure much would be gained by outlawing the opinions of the BNP.
David Irving, the notorious and discredited holocaust-denier, was able to project himself as a victim and gain even more folk-hero status among the far right when he was imprisoned in Austria for his views.
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26 Ln
That's why I think 'indigienous' is not an easy term to use when discussing the UK population. My great-grandparents migrated here from Poland and Austria ... am I indigineous British? I don't really care.
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Ref 3. Dryopithecus,
'Legitimate' political party, as opposed to one that has been banned or outlawed, seems an appropriate adjective to me.
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Ln 17, Don't get me started.
Dry 22, That's why I asked.
I just watched Question Time on iPlayer because it overlapped with Without a Trace last night and I didn't want to stay up that late anyhow. So I taped Trace. Great invention, iPlayer.
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LN 17 Don't get him started. :o)
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#31 lucien_desgai
It's not me it's him who starts it.
Anyway just been round to the corner shop and noticed that the Daily Mirror has been sold out and yet there was still a pile of Suns.
When I enquired the shop owner said that for the last 2 days sales of the Mirror have increased, in his shop anyway.
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l_d 31, Don't get him started by telling him not to get me started. My other grandfather is buried in Pennsylvania.
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Ref 30. David_McNickle
Here you go if you're interested.
http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/
Come back and let us know how a party becomes legitimate.
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Banning the BNP would fail because ironically, the BNP would go straight to the European Court of Human Rights.
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Oh dear PM bashing on Feedback again.
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PM seems to be following the direction taken BBC1+2 a few years ago in chasing ratings by dumbing down and filling much of the 60 minutes with jingles and trivia. After the two pieces on Keith Floyd, I wrote to Mark Damazer, Controller of Radio 4 as well as to Feedback. Hopefully they'll take note and stop the programme's decline or shunt it over to Radio2.
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The great Sufi musician Musrat is remembered tonight:
http://www.cbso.co.uk/?page=concerts/viewConcert.html&cid=1937&m=10&y
Highlights only,next Thursday on the Beeb;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/asiannetwork/events/
To get a sample of hte great man himself try
[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
The music is ewven better on
[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
but the recording is poor at the beginning.
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Ref 38. ExpectingtheEnd
Thanks. Will check it out later. Going home now.
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38
Yeah thanks for the links, ExpectingtheEnd.
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Here's an interesting BNP link:
http://www.politics.co.uk/news/equality/investigation-reveals-bnp-golly-trial-$1320839.htm
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I'm guessing that 40 is mac congratulating himself on 38 - anybody want a bet?
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Sid (42) Naah, I don't think you'd get good odds on that!
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38 - I think you'll find his name's Nusrat ...
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EtE 38: You mean Nusrat, innit? I didn't realise he was no longer with us.
I remember hearing a concert of his some years ago. It was mesmerising.
Thanks for the links. Dry.
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#41. Sid
Thanks for the link.
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44, 45, Sorry, new leyboard with such small keys!
Plus, can't type anyway.
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EtE @ 47 - don't worry, pea-man will be along in a moment to say how nice your keyboard looks.
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I also think the programme has taken a wrong turning with all these jingles. Not like the good old days when they had them at the beginning for a while before we were told the news, and every fifteen minutes after that. THOSE were jingles. My I used to hate them and write in every day to tell them. Was furious when they listened to me after 14 years of writing. Now I like to use this blog all the time to hold forth on a variety of topics and also complain about the programme. Mmmm.
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Oh dear. Chicago out. All that discussion wasted ...
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(49) Eddie, that's not fair. By taking over my job of having a laugh at Richard_SM you are unfairly depriving me of one of my favourite recreations. If you don't immediately desist I will write to Mark Damazer, Controller of Radio 4 as well as to Feedback and maybe to that nice Anne Robinson on Watchdog and probably post here and other places as well. And start a petition at 10 Downing Street. And I might even stop posting links on the PM Blog to the BBC News site and then BBC News and Current Affairs won't know what's happening on the BBC News site.
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I'm baffled. There are lots of news programmes. Why don't the people who don't like PM listen to something else, instead of trying to make PM like all the others?
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Sid 50, At least Chicago didn't build an 80,000 seat stadium for the Olympics like Cleveland did only for a war to come along.
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Ref 49. Eddie Mair
On a scale of 1-10, how would you rate your sensitivity to criticism?
"Was furious when they listened to me after 14 years of writing."
You obviously don't have the right technique. It took just one letter to Mark Damazer, with a copy to Feedback - and hey - an instant result - Jo was defending the programme on Feedback. I thought she exaggerated a little when she said, "We've sent Hugh Sykes to Afghanistan."
OK - have it your way. You're wonderful. The programme's fantastic. Feel better now? I particularly like the bit where you interview Nils, he interviews someone else, and then you interview Nils again.
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"OK - have it your way."
Thanks Richard. You're so sweet.
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54 RSM
I like that bit too :o)
Any chance you could post the text of that letter here? I'd quite like to learn from your technique.
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See you all on Monday for another programme, including of course, Upshares. Result.
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And in a packed programme on Monday I shall be having a word with a man who goes in for meditation, because he thinks it's better than sitting around doing nothing.
And we'll be talking to a car designer who's crossed Toyota with Quasimodo and come up with The Hatchback of Notre Dame.
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Preston - is that all your own work? Or did you pinch it from somewhere? Because it's very funny.(Not that I'm doubting for one moment your ability to think up an original and witty line...or maybe I am?)
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59 Annasee
Whatever its provenance somebody's pinched it from this blog.
Maybe a copyright issue?
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l_d 60, Probably a VW driver.
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The fullback of Notre Dame, James Aldridge, is injured and won't play against Michigan.
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57
'Upshares'?
Is that hot from Nils?
Or are you hoping for improvements in matters reported on page 15 at
[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
or the bad news on page 1?
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[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
is interesting in other ways.
Page 1 has Movments in the Fund.
I read it like this.
The fund paid out 318.4 millions but its investmetns only yielded 193.6 million. That's a shortfall of 224.8 million.
The shortfall was made up from the 196.3.
This sort of funding (which ignores the capital loss the fund is sustaining) lets new investors provide the returns (pay outs) to the old investors.
now if I were on AA, like Eric Pckles was on AQ, Eddie Mair presiding, I'd say
'I'm not saying the BBC Pension fund is a Ponzi scheme or run along Madoff lines. That would be wholly wrong of me to make such a suggestion.
It would be wholly wrong to say its a scam'
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The shortfall is of course 115.8 million.
this current shortfall was made good using the 196.3 million of current investors' contributions.
Again everything in quotes in 64 stands.
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[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
I think everyone should look at page 1 and page 15
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Annasee (59) - Nope. Taken from The Two Ronnies. Which as you will recall was a BBC production. But apparentley unsuitable to be replicated on a BBC blog. Bloody stupid!
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EtE 66, I had the song IF YOU KNEW SUZIE removed for the same reason elsewhere. Now if someone can explain to me what an Unsuitable/Broken URL is...
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At a special meeting of the executive committee of the Extremely Shy and Painfully Self-conscious Society last night, the members gave themselves a vote of no confidence.
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West Mercia police have announced that they wish to interview a man wearing high heels and frilly knickers, but the Chief Constable said they must wear their normal uniforms."
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
68
It's one that links directly to the BBC Pension Fund report, which contains its investments in tobacco companies, oil companies, RTZ, hedge funds aplenty and is totally dependent on world stock prices.
This is one of the funds being boosted by QE (which has driven the Ftse up from 3.7 to 4.9999 thousand since it started).
Meanwhile the State Pension languishes, cos the rich have too much potential spending power.
Thank you for asking. How's the wifey? My wify's fine.
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EtE 72, A bit early for hitting the booze, innit?
As they say here in Herts, "She's foine."
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