The PM Glass Box.
The Glass Box is where the angelic PM team meets in at 18.00 every weeknight to discuss the content of the programme.
We try to be honest with each other, but not hurtful, as we talk about what worked and what didn't...what met our expectations and what fell short.
This virtual glass box is where you're encouraged to take part in the same spirit. The PM editor Joe Carr will read your comments and may well add his own.
Listen to PM
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~47~RS~)
Comments
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Where's my second Glass Box? I can't send the final one until it is put here.
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Shaid Malik gone...Next....
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OK, I sent it...
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Reading/Berkshire = 40 mins from central London. Why would they need second homes?
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It has been reported today that a diver who took part in the Olympics was fined £80 for stealing £4 worth of plumbing fittings from his local B & Q.
I think what Martin Salter was trying to say is that rogue MPs should be prosecuted.
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'Don't pick on us or the extremists will get in.' utterly pathetic. There need to be prosecutions and prison terms, then we'll find MPs will behave themselves. They clearly can't be trusted, and need watching constantly. The Kirkbrides should both be prosecuted, despite her trying to heap it on her husband - not even any loyalty there. What a total disgrace these people are, sewer rats.
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L_S 4
Please, don't pretend to be innocent.
The answer to your question as I suspect you know well.
Is to make money..!
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Cops Go Softly On Hunting - A Total Disgrace. What a surprise (NOT) that the cops don't want to prosecute the animal torturers. I guess it might put them in the embarrassing position of having to nick some of their own bosses' 'society' pals. What a nice victory for the sadism lobby that masquerades as 'country sports'. All this proves is that a vastly more rigid law is needed that puts animal torturers behind bars.
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d_M 1
David,
I believe "someone" had a smashing-time with it...
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Eddie,
"The Glass Box is where the "angelic" PM team..."
Tell me, are you taking the same "Magic Mushrooms" as our MP's..?
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Charlie 9, It is still in my camera...
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D_M
David,
Evidence is good...
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Especially noteworthy parliaments have been given names: Rump Parliament, Barebone Parliament.
The current parliament has surely made a big enough impact to deserve a nickname...
I have been pondering "The End of Boom and Bust Parliament", and "The Rotten Parliament", but I especially like "The Sorry Parliament"
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Charlie 15, In fact, both are in the camera. In fact, all three are there.
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Oh, bliss, all the lovely Upshares tunes.
Eddie, are you auditioning for Radio 3?
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"Me" @ 10
I exclude the beautiful "Joker" from my previous comment.
Incidentally Eduardo - you probably need a visit to your Optician:
"The PM editor Joe Carr will read your comments and may well add his own."
The last time I saw a photo of the beautiful "Joker", "he" was MOST definitely a "SHE..."
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Charlie 16, And that photo is in my camera as well...
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David...
A hat-trick! You're position is un-assailable...
As it should be. You're creations we're on a par with "Banksy..."
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Can we have more on the wider matter of Parliament being perceived as disreputable? Is there not now too much focus on the expenses scandal story at the expense of the wider picture? The subject of MP's expenses is starting to go round and round while the media and PM are beginning to sound patronising by forever only referring to the "public's outrage" with respect to the individual subject of expenses abuse.
Although this is a serious matter, surely what is repeatedly referred to as 'the public's outrage' towards Parliament extends far beyond this particular scandal. Surely there can be no doubt that this latest debacle simply rides on the back of several recent democratic and Parliamentary failures which include Iraq and much of the security legislation that has been passed despite considerable public concern at the time and since. These have also badly damaged the perception of Parliament as a genuinely representational body. And this damage may no longer be news, but it certainly has not gone away.
Isn't it now time the general picture of Parliament as a corrupt and unrepresentational body, which brings together all recent examples was put put up for consideration?
Ironically, while this story just runs and runs, who else is willing to bet the Government is using the distraction created to slip through all manner of controversial legislation, which would, at any other time, have generated further disillusionment with British democracy.
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The pro-hunting man said the hunting ban is a "bad law" because it is hard to define and hard to enforce, and should therefore be scrapped.
This is nonsense. By these criteria, we should also scrap the law which bans rape. Rape is hard to define and the conviction rate is tiny.
We must scrap the law enforcing paying your income tax - its hard to define exactly how much you owe, and very expensive to catch evaders.
I could give many more examples. Should we scrap all these laws? No of course not. Many vital laws are hard to define and hard to enforce. Hunting must stay banned.
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David,
Apologies re my 18.
The Dentist's anaesthetic (?) still has a grip! Unlike two of my wisdom teeth...
So, for:
You're read "Your"
- Ditto -
we're read were
I accept responsibility for all and any other errors. Unlike my MP...
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Just to take issue with one of the letters that have just been read out; our MPs are NOT in change of us, they're *supposed* to be representing us.
Anyway, I loved the Tornadoes-style Upshares, Downshares music. Lots more of that please.
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Good luck with BH, Kevin!
We have high expectations, you know...
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Am I alone in wondering why the the public servants in charge of granting permission for MPs' expenses have not be held to account for gross negligence. No other audit or finance office would have allowed such things. Are they in collusion? Surely some jobs should be at risk?
Duncan D
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lucyb... 13
I'd prefer the "Up-yours Parliament". At least, that'd be reasonably honest.
To think Civil and indeed World Wars were fought to reach this stage of things...
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Pride's Purge?
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Joseph, fyi: I responded to comments you made yesterday on the Nostalgic Glass Box.
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I thought the interview with the MP from reading west was good. He was trying to be honest. I think he was refreashing.
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Sue (27)
Yes Sue, I saw. Thank you. Clearly I wasn't concentrating. But what say you to pressing on with more important matters now?
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Dog-licences, good Lord! I thought that one was long gone. I think the minister in charge of getting rid of them was William Waldegrave, so it must have been a while ago. I think they cost under a quid.
If the licence cost rather more than a pound (with some sort of allowance made for pensioners but *not* for the out-of-work, because if they couldn't afford a licnce how could they afford the food and vet's bills), and had to be bought at the same time as buying the dog, and included an identifiable "chip" under the dog's skin so that it could be told immediately whether the dog was licensed or not, and who was repsonsible for it, at least some of the irresponsible dog-owners who are the real problem might be put off getting one in the first place.
If some government actually wanted to make licences work they could do it fairly simply: any dog that after coming to the attention of the authorities in any way had not been shown within say one month to have one, could be destroyed.
Horrible for a few months, but thereafter a way to hold the owners to account for their dogs' behaviour, and to put off people who didn't really want to look after a dog, just to have a fashion-accessory for a few months.
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Joseph, agree. Further to yours @19: does anyone else think that there should be a call to dissolve parliament and an election?
Is there any precedent for the public doing this? Is it only the PM who can request this of the Queen?
Where is Joanna Lumley when you need her?
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BTW: how is it that parliament passes a law saying everyone has to pay Poll Tax but they get to claim it back? Sorry? Was I hearing things?
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30. Chris_Ghoti
What a thoroughly unpleasant post. Your solution as 'a way to hold the owners to account' is the dog 'could be destroyed.'
Apart from all the people who have dogs which they love, care for, exercise and control, cleaning up any mess and behaving responsibly, who nevertheless would find it difficult to afford a one off fee of the size that it would have to be to make the scheme work [probably £100], the idea that to punish someone for not paying humanoid tokens to other humans in the monetary game they play it is ok to kill an innocent animal, is quite frankly fascistic. How about destroying the owners? If it's to be a capital offence, let the ones responsible get it.
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Does anybody know the name of programme trailered at the end of PM, about 5.57hrs. The presenter suggested it might be a good time to start with a "blank sheet," and they'll be discussing possibilties.
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Lady Sue (31)
What good would that do when the the same snouts just stand and get elected again? If I thought it would do any good I'd agree.
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Invisibleatheist (33)
Uh-oh, here we go again...
Dog-owners... good grief.
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"Charlotte Green". By the skin of my teeth. I almost ran home to catch PM? Am I in deep trouble if I am hooked on PM. But good show - except I still think we are being given the run around about these expenses.
I was in London. I was communing with that statue of |Beau Brummel when the missus mentioned someone had just gone by. Celebrity watching is fun but I like to think.lol Brummel is quoted as saying being fashionable meant you were NOT noticed! How true I thought as I pass Miss Bossie Boots various USA claiments one of them back to front with the dogs reproductive organs illustrated too. I averted my gaze quickly.
What is it with Chancery Lane area? Legal Chambers everywhere.
My lady insisted on walking me through perceived enemy territory doesnt she know I have a Bounty on my head? Bounty? Lol No offence anyone.
But two more celebs spotted - Al Swearengen Deadwood kin eh?
The actors West Wing Episode was Enemies Foreign and Domestic was it not playing a Russian? And President Obama may be making a statement soon? On possible "trials"?
How apt. Is someone else seen as a foreign enemy of said country I also wondered and then how and why?
And the son of the new voice of the older Rumpole on the radio and Fawlty Towers Sybil. I see the young man and keep thinking of Gary Watson. Did I ever find out what happened to the owner of that wonderful narration voice. This actor just seen has the voice over gift too.
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How do you allocate the letters to the 'readers'?
I bet they were all hoping to get the one about the whistling bird whose owner lurked around outside the house to hear his little rendering of some theme tune or other....
How did he manage to keep his face/voice straight!
Mollyxx
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36. Joseph Walker
Your point, or was that just a sneer?
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L_S 31
To dissolve Parliament now would almost certainly be against to the best interests of the UK.
The PM could request such a move, but interestingly, and uniquely, I think the Monarch (quite rightly) would resist... A real Constitutional conundrum.
And, even Gordon Brown isn't (?) that foolish..?
No, the MP's known to be involved in this "expenses" scandal should be suspended and investigated by the Police and the DPP and a General Election called, as the PM thinks fit or, as the Constitution requires.
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Sue (31)
Well, if fifty thousand people just turned up at Westminster folded their arms and glared at the place for long enough something might happen.
Personally I'm in favour of a more direct contact-based approach, but I realise I may be in the minority there.
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Lady sue,
I've just reminded myself of something funny (perhaps only to me though). There is a film called 'war games' where a kid breaks into an American military computer that controls the atomic defences. Well, the inevitable happens and the kid accidently sets the the computer going into fire everything we've got mode. Whilst the military are panicking and pulling their hair out trying to stop and shut down the launch sequence, the top brass general in charge answers one of his subordinates when hes asked "what are we going to do general". He replies, "son", "I'd piss on the spark plug myself if I thought it would do any good". Just thought it was so funny in the film.
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Invisibleatheist @ 33, I think that many dogs would be better off dead than in the hands of some owners. But then, I have had involvement with dog-rescue.
I do agree with you that I would have liked to apply the death-penalty to those who had done some of the things done to some dogs. As far as I am concerned, too, anyone who dumps a dog because it's not a cute puppy any longer should be dumped him or herself, down a deep hole. But if they knew that they would be caught and punished for doing it, maybe they would think twice either before getting a puppy in the first place, or about dumping it in the second. And if they couldn't get hold of a dog without having a licence for it as well, they *could* be held accountable.
You prefer the dog as status-symbol, child-substitute or fashion-accessory? I don't. I would rather that no new dog-ownership of that sort could happen. Or at least could not happen so easily.
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invisibleatheist (39)
Well I'm slightly disappointed it came across as a sneer, but yes, that was my point.
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CG,
How could you do that to a defenseless animal, you, you animal you!
If you find one, I'm after one. But, I don't want anything with Bull in the name or one of those half dog, half half rats from Mexico either. A Border Terrier perhaps? I thank you, (said in the style of Arthur Askey).
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DMNC,
Carry on the good GB work.
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Duncan @24
Perhaps in the MOD?
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Richard_SM 34
I don't.
But, if you "Listen Again" and scroll forward to the last 3 or 4 minutes, you'll get it...
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Now that theme tune and tonights PM Letters,
I did leave a little comment on the latest thread - but on advice from Frances - it may be more suited here.
In todays PM letters Eddie read out various comments in relation to the PM Theme tune - however he never mentioned that the majority of the public who left their views were asking for the theme tune to be re-instated.
Not a very good show considering it's 'Our BBC' ;-)
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I don't think Ray Mallon stepping in, or Edgie's coup in consulting high ranking generals d'etat, should divert anyone one iota from pursuing what they believe to be right and good in this present deep, deep politcal crisis and SLUMP.
Nonetheless I find their presence on the political comment platforms worrying.
Much more please, from Mann and Salter .....and McFall.
After all, the SLUMP and the POLITICAL CRISIS of ancien regime have this in common:
They are both what happens when the truth dawns - when the hideous bubbles of dishonest speculative selfishnesses burst like fetid boils.
And the truth brings a sweet dawn to the just and a harsh reality to the rest of us.
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http://newsbiscuit.com/2009/05/13/expenses-row-latest-mp-%e2%80%98claimed-for-trough%e2%80%99/
Senior backbencher Sir Peregrine Hawker has defended his expenses claim for £3400 to have a diamond-encrusted trough installed in the garden of his second home. I have to have something to stick my nose in, he told reporters; It is an essential part of an MPs work.
The Speaker of the House of Commons confirmed that, under the present rules the claim for the top-of-the-range trough from Harrods was within the rules, as was Sir Peregrines claim for £560 travel expenses relating to an actual train made of gravy. How else am I expected to visit my constituency from my London flat in Easy Street? fumed the irate MP.
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Peston R. says (10 oclock BBC 1 TV News) that the Treasury Select Committee, whilst blaming the BONUS culture for excessive risk taking, in large part, for the Credit Crash, is against LIMITS to rewards or SALARIES in the BNKS we own officially. (RBS. Lloyds)
The BLAME is 'cos of asymmetric rewards. Win = Money, Lose = No gain + Loss of Reputation + Loss of job
The Lose penalties don't seem to operate.
Apparently with caps etc we couldn't get staff of the right calibre.
Yep.
We might lose out on the top people of the sort of calibre who .....
Yep
Lost us shed fulls of money in the first place
Whaaat?
Hey, John McFall
Is that all?
Well, it ain't enough.
Get tough.
Just cos you know
Rich MPs stink
It don't mean you owe
Bankers a thing.
Go get 'em, every one
Give 'em hell, and then some
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Dear all,
Thank you for your comments. Is it bad blog etiquette to mention Broadcasting House in the Glass Box? I wonder because this Sunday, we have representatives of the 4 estates (go on, look it up, we had to) discussing what parliament would be like if we set it up again from scratch, and some of your thoughts would seem to be trending BH, as the pollsters would say.
We'll be taking contributions from the 5th estate- that's you, dear listeners- so please email any thoughts to (hope this translates) bh@bbc.co.uk
Have a good weekend.
Jo
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It looks suspiciously like Perspex to me!
I think we should be told?
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52. Blogarooney
A garden trough from Harrods costing 3400 pounds on MP's expenses! I shall look out to see HOW this is necessary for an MP to do his job.
Thanks for highlighting it.
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54.JotheEditrice
48. Charlie
Thanks for the info. I shall listen to Broadcasting House programme tomorrow which promises to look at our democracy starting with a 'clean sheet of paper.'
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Jo #54 It's not "bad form" to mention BH at all on the blog :-) The Paddy and Eddie links at the end of the Friday programme are sometimes just what I need to cheer myself up if the news that day/week has been grim, and BH feels more like PM's younger sibling sometimes :-)
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Richard (56) I think you may have your irony detectors switched off - though after a week like this nothing would surprise me.
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Charlie18, How do you know I'm not Banksy?
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Bansksys artistic!
David you walked into that one.
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I forgot why I logged on for a minute.
Oh yeah, Look why not just ask the MPs how much pay rise they need and, if they promise to be better behaved in the future, give them the pay rise and just let them off?
Hand up all those in favour.
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Edidtrice Jo, I goggled [sic] the Four Estates, and alongside several estate agents, I ot this:
"The four Estates mirror the structure of the universe in the microcosm of the social order. Even the division of the single Primordial Estate into four parts mirrors the process of manifestation, in which the four elements proceed out of the single Aethyr. Thus it is natural that the four Estates correspond with the elements. They are as follows:
*
Haiela (approx. pron: "high-ELLa") : the priestly and intellectual Estate
Correspondences: Air, Winter, North
* Raihira (approx. pron "rye-HEERa") : the noble and ruling (also Vikhelic) Estate
Correspondences: Fire, Summer, South
* Magdala (approx. pron "MY-dla") : the makers: craftmaids, farmers and merchants
Correspondences: Earth, Autumn, West
* Paccia (approx. pron: "PAKsia") : the bonded Estate
Correspondences: Water, Spring, East"
from http://www.aristasia.co.uk/estates.htm
Is that really what you meant????
;o)
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fJD 61, I think Banksiskysyk is very artistic. Bottoms up if you agree. (maybe)
http://realneo.us/system/files?file=TunickCleveland.jpg
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My posts are being referred to the Moderators constantly, because of some remarks I made yesterday about Gaza.
They were in reply to a contributor who suggested opening Concentration Camps on College Green for miscreant (I assume) MPs.
I assumed that the post was invoking memories of the deeply tragic events in the Camps, to purpose. Namely to bring up short any extreme right wing thinking that was considering measures clearly beyond all reason, even along Concentration Camp lines, as punishment to be meted out to MPs.
My post extended the image to Gaza to make the point that apparently Western - style democracies are capable of such horrors and tragedies that we must always keep a check on our atavism.
Sadly the original contributor (on Concentration Camp) was clearly very upset by my remarks.
I certainly had no malicious (Active ill will, desire to tease) intentions in what I said.
Clearly I have caused an unnecessary furore and I am sorry that I caused such offence. I can only say that I will ensure in the future that I never mention Gaza in any context that could be constructed as linked to the original contributor.
I can end only by repeating that I did not intend offence and am truly sorry that I caused it, and apologise for posting something so painful.
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David,
Ha ha, the one on the far left seems rather a brave individual if you ask me.
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43. Chris_Ghoti 'You prefer the dog as status-symbol, child-substitute or fashion-accessory? '
Absolutely not. But your post came across as someone who would punish the human with a death sentence on the animal. I'm opposed to any ill treatment of dogs, and would prefer a licence system if it could be made to work. Unfortunately, the people who get a dog for the wrong reasons or who mistreat it would avoid getting a licence, the responsible people would get one. But the first place to start is the breeders; too many dogs are being bred, and many are sold without any checks on the buyer, like commodities rather than sentient creatures. Complex issue, but not solved with blanket suggestions of euthanasia, which organisations of cranks like PETA support - better dead than unwanted seems to be their motto. Both my dogs were rescued, I would never [again] buy one from a breeder, and it's not the price, they can cost as much with a donation to the rescue centre.
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41. Joseph Walker
That reminds me of a demonstration at the Pentagon in the sixties; the 'plan' was for the not inconsiderable crowd to concentrate and levitate the Pentagon [there were some strong substances around then]. The CIA took the threat seriously! Part of the plan, conceived by Beat painter Michael Bowen, was to drop thousands of daisies over the area from a plane. The CIA sabotaged this part by grounding the pilot, so the daisies were driven furiously to the demo and handed out, with the result that the most iconic picture of the sixties' antiwar protests was created - hippies sticking daisies in the rifles of the National Guard 'defending' the Pentagon.
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(67) invisibleatheist
I totally agree.
CG, Whats wrong with owning a dog out of mutual companionship?
And whats wrong with showing them affection, care and understanding?
They do not have to be a fashion accessory to own a dog. Agreed some people my use them as substitute children. However, this seems to be a natural phenomena and takes little effort from the owner to see the dog in this way. It only seems to become a problem when a dog (or any animal) falls into mistreatment because of this.
I think, what I would call giving a dog celebrity status, is also problem. Especially if that celebrity comes out of being owned by a celeb such as Jordan etc, etc,... These sorts of people don't seem to know the difference between a higher functioning mammal and children.
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D_M 60
David,
I firmly believe that you "are" Banksy and, to see one of your masterpieces so damaged, is quite upsetting (especially as I was going to have it nicked from the PM offices for a collector I'd already "sold" it to...)
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invisibleatheist and fJd, I do not wish for dogs in reasonable homes to be killed in an arbitrary way any more than I wish for dogs to be trained to tear each other to pieces so that humans can gamble on the outcome.
Why would a dog that is cared for, loved and properly treated be at risk? Its caring owner would have a licence for it, and there would not be a problem there, surely.
I do sincerely believe that if dogs were required to have a licence that was checked up on as rigorously as the licence of a car is, and anyone in charge of a dog that had been found to be dangerous or diseased and neglected could be easily identified through that licence and punished, the lot of a great many dogs would be improved.
If it were the case that all dogs that were what I would term "legitimately owned" and cared for were licensed and their owners could be identified in relation to that dog or dogs, and selling, disposing of or having a dog without a license were a criminal offense and meant that the dog was removed and either rehomed or killed, of course there would be a few people who didn't follow the law, just as there are people who have unlicensed cars, but it would be a great deal more difficult for such people to get away with maltreating an animal -- as they do at the moment.
It has to start with the breeders: if it were illegal to sell a dog, or to transfer its ownership from one person to another in whatever way (which covers the rescue dogs, whatever the reason for their being in need of rescue) unless it had a licence, only disreputable breeders would try to do so, and could be more easily held to account for the offence.
But what does anyone suppose happens to rescue dogs who cannot be found a new home at the moment? Dogs who are unsafe to have around because the treatment they have been given from birth makes them attack people or other dogs apparently without reason, for instance? They have to be killed in the end. I don't like that; I want it stopped, and the best way to stop it has to be by preventing them from ever existing in the first place.
(And yes, I deliberately used emotive language in my first post: it is the best way to get people's attention. That's why RSPCA advertisements show extreme examples of animals that have been cruelly treated rather than ones that are terrrified and miserable but not obviously emaciated and covered in sores.)
The drawback of course is that the database for this would be put out to tender, the people running it would be as good at this as the NHS database ones, and the scheme would be a mass of holes and bad data and so forth. I wonder how the people who license cars manage not to be so shambolic.
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(56) You might want to check the website before you make any further investigations......I don't want to be accused of misleading the House.
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41 and 68
Two obvious dangers.
1. the emergence of law and order toughies......
I'd classify Ray Mallon in that category.
Interesting that Eddie had a little coup asking that senior military man about the state d'etat.
...the danger of course that they may (get) catapult(ed) into powerful national POLITICAL offices during crises.
2. the huge over reaction of the authorities to natural protest.
At Kent State students died for their trouble.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
(The Yevteshenko poem explains their link to hippies and to flowers.
('Flowers are better than bullets)
http://www.kudzumonthly.com/kudzu/may02/Bullets.html)
They were not the first.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orangeburg_Massacre
The Brutish have a police force with a record of killings (Menezes and Ian Tomlinson) and a keen army, currently blooded (Afghanistan and Iraq)
We seem to have an executive caste keen to be tough, very tough, on the streets.... and everywhere else.
You know what people can be like defending their privileges.
'Proceed with caution
But'.. 'please, procede'
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"The British have a police force with a record of killings (Menezes and Ian Tomlinson)"
Good grief. Two ham-fisted bungles in ten years, and you're trying to build a conspiracy theory on them! Get a grip!
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74.
It is not a conspiracy, it's an attitude.
13.
Let's hope this lot haven't made it 'The Last Parliament'
And that it's the last Parliament for them.
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Sid @ 74, wasn't there also a case in which someone was woken up and shot in the early hours (though not killed) by mistake?
Oh, and the chap who was shot dead for carrying a chair-leg in a carrier-bag.
And the one who was shot dead while he was in bed with his girlfriend.
I regard these as good reasons for not having an armed police-force, myself, but not as a conspiracy: more as sheer bluddy incompetence.
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Charlie 70, I'm going to repaint it for the Glass Box. (The Indians are circling. I am now being deleted continually on two threads.)
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fJd (or whoever it was, wherever it was), I will do an origami angel on my glass box.
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CG (76)
But, we do have an armed police force! Getting more and more armed all the time!
The other thing is, our so called 'unarmed' police seem to 99% of the time take the lethal way out of armed conflicts.
In America for instance, ( I'm not implying anything by this example),they have many options. Stun grenades, rubber bullets, bean bag shooters, none lethal sniper shots (shots to the weapon itself and less harmful parts of the body), water hoses....etc. All these are used regularly along with the only none lethal approach (as yet) of our police which is the electric volt gun. The volt gun only works when in close proximity with suspect so, would be unlikely to be used in the vast majority of armed conflicts. I don't know of any other procedure by our police? It would probably be a state secret anyway. Again, unlike America.
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The government fears 'it could prop up jobs that the post-slump recovery could not sustain'.....
...when, presumably, the workers helped can get new jobs.
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C_G, Eddie, etc, That will teach me to scroll. I didn't on the 'broken glass table' thread and didn't see my second Glass Box being destroyed by tractor. My apologies Eddie, you can now post the third one.
L_S, you obviously aren't a seer. Other than that you saw it and I didn't.
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David (78)
Look forward to it, and further boxes.
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D_M 77
Perhaps an enquiry into "Moderation" is called for..?
The BBC has both a legal and moral duty...
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fJd 82, It seems like everybody but me saw my second one.
Let's see, where are my origami books....
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Charlie 83, Others have asked for that. They play favorites here. No they don't, I just think they do. They do....
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My (62)
It seems no takers then?
Oh well, I used to fancy Julie Kirkbride an all.
But, did you hear her defence when found out claiming as a separate couple with hubby on second homes? " My husband will have to answer for his actions"!
Thats alright then;
The but, if we're caught at it, your just the stranger I married but, don't live with but, call you husband but, don't really know you but, I kind of do, but don't. I certainly know nothing about how we financially run this none relationship but, do but, don't. I'm just the dumb MP caught in the middle of all this defence.
Yes, I'm sure the fees office will understand. They must get it all the time?
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fJd @ 79, I know that a proportion of our police force is armed -- some of them used to stand around outside a house down the road where I lived in the early seventies, and I have no reason to think there are fewer of them now than then.
I just think they shouldn't be. Not as a general thing. If you have a gun you are more likely to use it. Well, if you don't have one you can't. I do remember the fuss about the police at Glasgow airport not being issued with guns when the nutcases in cars tried to blow it up after failing to blow up bits of London, and the reply from the police chiefs up there that guns hadn't been issued and hadn't been needed either. I suspect strongly that if guns had been in use on that occasion, it would have been inevitable for at least one completely innocent bystander to catch a bullet.
As for "the electric volt gun". I am fairly sure that this has killed people. Not everyone has a completely healthy heart, and I think there have been a couple of cases of heart failure as a result of one of these things being used.
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David (81)
I saw the tractor tearing apart the glass box. I though it was quite witty and a natural lead on to the next box. Good work.
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CG (87)
I agree with what you say. However, I do think that if our police had other 'none lethal' routine optins available as in the country I mentioned, perhaps the inocennt bystanders would be more safe? I suspect, (unlike the country I mentioned), if our guys were rountinely armed, we would not be able to cope with the code of prctice that would have to inevitably be created. I belive there would be so many more deaths if their were routine arming. For instance, in the country I mentioned before, in many states, an officer is not even allowed to unholster his gun, unless his life or another's life is in direct threat. If he does unholster the gun (even thoght not discharged) a report as to why has to be written.
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fJd @ 89 in my present state of mind I wouldn't trust the present administration to make a reasonable job of creating a code of practice for crossing the road safely, so the idea of them trying to work out one for the routine use of potentially lethal weaponry fills me with unutterable dread.
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CG (90)
And I don't believe you are being paranoid either!
Seconded.
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Mervyn King researched into horizontal as opposed to vertical inequality.
The (horizontal) idea is that during redistribution no one should change position over-all. The richest person should remain the richest person, albeit poorer, after the redistribution from rich to poor.
How radical is that? Well,....Not at all!!!
It even provides support of redistribution from the poor to the rich - which happens here.
But the related idea that those doing the same thing should get the same money, has strong claims to be fair. It is a guiding principle of trades unionism and so of course of gender equality etc.
One is, of course, thinking of MPs. They get the same salary, it's true. But we are learning of them enjoying very different standards of living whilst they do the same job.
They of course have different wealth endowments.
But I confess I cannot see how their standards of living could be equalised, even for the short period of being an MP, unless all private wealth above a certain amount were taken into private ownership.
That would certainly include any homes people own.
Shock, horror!
But I was brought up in a council owned house as was my wife. I knew from early years that one day I would leave that house never to return. It was tied, as many are proposing MP's London homes should be.
I never did look back. My family home was not something that generations of my family had lived in We lived in it from 1947. My mother left it finally in 1992.
It was not a home I ever expected to live in on some hereditary principle.
All that was, and is, fine,to me.
Shock, horror if it should happen to you? Believe me it is NOT a traumatic thing.
And when that great barrier to progress in the subject of equality, house 'ownership', has been hurdled, accepting the psychologically easier notion of equality of income comes very easily.
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Yawn.
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fJd 86, I keep telling my wife that Kirkbride is quite dishy. Don't think much of her choice of hubby, though.
As I said, I sent a third box which might, or might not, appear tomorrow, or Tuesday, or....not.
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L_S 93, Can you imagine staying up until nearly midnight to post all of that stuff?
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FOR THOSE FAST SCROLLING:
important:-
WE, THE PEOPLE ARE SOVEREIGN, NOT PARLIAMENT.
THAT WE CAN ONLY KICK OUT MPs AFTER FIVE YEARS OR WHEN THE PM SAYS WE CAN*, IS A PARLIAMENTARY IDEA, NOT THE PEOPLES'.
TO KICK THE LOT OUT, now, IT would NEED PITCHFORKS AND A MARCH ON PARLIAMENT.
(AND BARONESS WARNOCK GIVING US PERMISSION, OF COURSE)
(AND AN Ipm POLL ON WHETHER THEY SHOULD GO, now).
*PEERS NOT AT ALL, DIRECTLY
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92
I meant to add that so much of the estate land and the grand houses on them, can have excellent public use instead. Parkland. Educational centres for schools and colleges. Rest and recuperation homes. Retirement flats. Etc. As many do already. But many don't, yet.
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TRW: re. "pitchforks and a march on parliament" - off you go. You seem like just the chap for the job.
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P.S. David @95: I suspect wherever he is lives (I'm thinking perhaps some kind of institution) he paces the floor endlessly trying to keep sleep at bay before sitting down to pace the computer screen.
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As for the income-above-32-thousand-per-head that would come in, in tax and the above-average-wealth that would be gathered, give it to the poor and the beloww average
Then tax everyone the same for public goods (special needs, broadly defined), the environment and world poverty.
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Has anyone got round to telling the mods that 165 lines of text (ignoring the white space) from one person as against 13 from the whole of the rest of the community, and those 13 in the main adverse comments on the length and tedious nature of the 165 lines, is getting beyond a joke?
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The theory of representation says, of course, that the people cannot be trusted.
So don't expect a motion to dissolve Parliament from any MP whatsoever, no matter how humble.
Perhaps a motion implementing the idea of 100 though?
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TRW (various): might I ask if you have a soap box on which you stand to write these lengthy threads?
Chris@101 : I'm hoping it will be "medication time" soon and we will all have a little break.
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Lady Sue (98+103)
You made me laugh out loud! Please carry on.
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Lady Sue,
One has an image of Margot Ledbetter (the good life) meets Rab. C. Nesbitt.
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fJd@ 105, I think you could be right. Glad you have been amused by my humble offerings. We have to laugh...
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D_M 84
I think you'll see it here. A real grab-and-smash...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/05/remember_this_table_in_the_gla.shtml#P
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Charlie 107, Thanks, I found it. I feel a bit foolish for not seeing it at the time.
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(108) David, what a shame you didn't see it. Thought it funny and even complimented you on it:
28. At 8:41pm on 13 May 2009, Lady_Sue wrote:
Oh dear! What really happened?
Loved the Lego! David, you have hitherto hidden talents.
Such a pity you missed it.
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fJd 105, Standing or kneeling?
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FjD, On second thought, make that fJd 82.
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David,
Standing I think? Wings spread?
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RBS - bonus...
I think those oh so needy people should have the bonus they have earned after working oh so hard this year, in fact I'd LIKE to FORCE them to take it..... but with one condition.....
Before you get your cheque, you have to subject yourself to retrospective clawback of all your bonuses from 2003-2008. In Cash, not offest against this years bonus, the 'real' folding stuff.
Feel some of the pain that the rest of the country is going through as a result of your actions as you have to liqudate a ferrari or two.
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