The PM Glass Box.
The Glass Box is where the PM team meets in at 18.00 every weeknight to discuss the content of the programme. We stay six feet away from each other.
We try to be honest with each other, but not hurtful, as we talk about what worked and what didn't...what met our expectations and what fell short.
This virtual glass box is where you're encouraged to take part in the same spirit. Tonight's PM editor Sarah Wadeson will read your comments and may well add her own.
Listen to PM
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~01~RS~)
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Who made that rubbish?
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Oh dear ...
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Eddie - have you been playing?
Jo must be away!
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Yo, back to 'Blue Peter' again.
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I see that today is the anniversary of Prime Minister Spenser Perceval's assassination in the House of Commons by businessman John Bellingham ...
Funny how times change. You couldn't imagine anybody wanting to shoot the PM these days, could you ... ?
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Interesting combination...
LEGO base,
Playmobil people,
Royal Mail duvet...
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Some people have too much time on their hands.
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Do I see one green rubber band in the box?
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david 8
Well, it seems to be something in rubber that's green.
How old are you anyway, that you can see that..?
Without the Hubble telescope...
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Kate Hoey knifes Speaker LIVE on PM !!!
This isn't just 'breaking the news' but 'making the news' !!!
Fine work !!
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The trees are a nice touch...
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Charlie 9, I'm 68, but as I made it...
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I'd be very interested to know how our MPs' total remuneration compares with that of their European counterparts. Could somebody on PM find this out, please?
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D_M 12
David,
In your dreams...
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lBG 10, Martin didn't sound very happy, did he?
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The report that mentioned "alcoholics and drug-addicts" would have been better if it had said "alcoholics and *other* drug addicts".
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C_G 16
Agreed
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Charlie 14, 5 July, 1940, and I did make it.
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I have worked part time in the care system for 11 years. I have worked with scores of difficult children. I have worked in a children's disability unit for a number of years and have worked with a severely autistic mute and very difficult boy over a 3 year period. I have built "an amazing relationship" with him and 18 months ago applied to foster him. I have met with a total brick wall. I have taken on a solicitor and it can take 9 weeks for a response to a letter. I have seen this boy severely assaulted by older children. He will not come out of his room at night because he is afraid. He pees on the floor. I have seen him mentally abused by staff members. I have yet to receive any face to face contact with any member of the Fostering and Adoption department. I have contacted my MP who says he is powerless. I have contacted Ofsted who are sympathetic but powerless. Is there anyone out there that is interested in this case?
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The "spoilt ballot paper" thing is not the same as "none of the above" for one very simple reason: the "none of the above" would be counted, the spoilt papers are not.
They used to be, and I think they should be: if someone cares enough to turn up then his or her vote ought to be counted even if it is not for one of the people on the paper.
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That the public might "object" to the Met being called in to investigate MPs expenses because they have "better things to do" is laughable.
The public are not as stupid as the MPs seem to think and would like us all to believe. I'd very much like the Met called in and I suspect I'm not alone.
Re. voting "none of the above": not everyone in the UK/Ireland votes anyway - I despair about this but have commented on it previously.
I like the 'Blue Peter' Glass Box - well done to the creator.
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C_G 16, I don't know what the Indy column headline said. I was away last week helping a daughter move house. Ask The Interminable Horseradish for the details. He knows all about my family.
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The juxtaposition of Brown rejecting renewable energy and embracing the nuclear chimera against the advice and preference of most people, and his brother being an executive at EDF, the French company that's going to be building and running these monstrosities is interesting.
Also interesting, the brothers' cleaner has moved out of the UK, so is unable to be questioned by journalists, unless any of them can swing a few days in Spain. Pr perhaps Eddie could conduct a telephone interview?
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None of the above tells politicians that we are interested enough to vote, but not for them.
Your Green spokesman had a good try, but I don't want to vote for a small party as a protest vote - I want them to get the message - we don't like what you stand for.
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L_S 21, It really was me (I).
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All that glisters...
...but it isn't clear to me that we are getting what we deserve from Silver.
Try this account, the bit about the bank's central role in the sub prime crisis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSBC
Prudent?
It doesn't sound like it.
These profits sounds, again, more like creative accountancy.
Lots of internationally based components, often based in areas weak on controls.
A fair amount of re-financing.
The usual story in regard to the banks, I think.
Silver sounded a little naive to me.
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CG (20)
I think you and I were two of the people who have suggested a N O T A ballott paper.
I agree, high five.
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I do not agree with a 'noneoftheabove' box. We the electorate get the politicians we deserve. If they're crap it's our fault for tolerating them. Labour Tory and Liberal supporters should all join their parties, likewise all other party supporters. Once joined they should engage in the system and actively seek to replace useless and/or bent politicians with someone better. If voters play the "I'm smug and aloof" act they will carry on getting substandard service. We can't expect God to send us better public servants; it's not going to happen. The vote and therefore the power is ultimately in our hands and if we do not use it we have nobody else to blame and no right to complain if we stay at home. If I felt unable to vote for anyone else I would spend the deposit money and put myself up. (In that regard of course, it's just a pity madam Thatch jacked up the deposit from the affordable £150 to try and stop the Monster Raving Loonies putting up againt her in Finchley, but then again she never did have a sense of humour.)
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21. Lady_Sue The issue was the Met investigating the leak, not the expenses.
Perhaps the electorate will vote for any independent candidate that's standing next time, boycott the party fiddlers and go for people who stand for election on their own beliefs and priorities, and not the whips. I know it's a revolutionary suggestion, but isn't party politics a large part of the problem? The kind of people who join political parties selects them for a start, then they have to brown nose successfully for a period, sometimes years, to get put forward for selection, and once in the job, the attitude all too often seems to be 'right, what's in this for me' - I'm sure we all know the ditty sung to the tune of the Red Flag, that goes 'the working class can kiss my ...'
Party politics results in the most devious and sly - Blair, Brown, Cameron - building a group of supporters around them, and working their way into a position of power within the party. It can be nasty. People just have to wean themselves off the belief that we would have chaos if the House was full of independent, principled and dedicated people who aren't in it for the money and answer only to their constituency voters. They could easily elect a [time-limited] PM and cabinet, and could as easily reject and replace them if they got too big for their boots. The speaker is incompetent and incoherent, and he's in charge?
Could anything be worse than this bunch of arrogant pilferers?
Just a thought.
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D_M 18
David,
How could I have doubted you? Apologies.
You are clearly a fellow of many parts.
Anyway, I'll Lego of that line of thought and enquire, is 05 July your Birthday?
If so, I could help you celebrate...
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Nigel Martin (Mr. Speaker) - sorry, I am afraid he is not up to the (admittedly very difficult) job. He really needed to keep his temper and failed unfortunately.
Betty Boothroyd would have been much much better.
Enough with the sorry's from all in sundry, what I would like to know is which MPs are paying their gains back, if any?
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The Vatican is trying to have Sunday officially declared a day of rest throughout the EU.
Nowhere in your bible will find you find a Sunday sabbath.
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COBOL74
"...what I would like to know is which MPs are paying their gains back, if any?"
Very good.
I've just heard on PM that the comedian, Ken Dodd, may not be asked to fulfill his "usual" Christmas Pantomime slot this year.
Perhaps you could take-over..?
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Following Gordon Browns apology on behalf of all MPs, I look forward to some of them reflecting on their actions and seeing the error of their ways.
I hear that already one MP has refunded the taxpayer for the dog food that he claimed for. I hope that PM will keep us updated on all such encouraging signs.
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lady_sue (21)
I agree with you,as soon as a candidate becomes an "MP" they assume the voters are thick.
Call the police the sooner the better,
and for goodness sake get rid of gorbals mick
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normanmugabe (32):
27. And on the seventh day He realised that the World's axis was wonky,
28. And he had not dustpan and brush to clear up the dinosaur bits he had dropped,
29. And some of the mountains were leaky, yea even unto spilling their lava about the land,
30. And He really shouldn't have put all the leftovers together into that mammal-duck-thing which requireth redoing properly.
31. So He travelled to B&Q, but Lo! Found it closed.
32. So he rested and watched The Great Escape on the telly.
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Kate Hoey wished that Speaker Betty Boothroyd was back?
Can I just say - I have lost respect for Parliament also because of the number of MoPs who have had a dig at Speaker Martin - openly on my TV or Radio since late last year. Not up to the job alleged. If that is true - which I have my doubts - fine - but that is not our problem Parliament. Telling us voters - at least me - doesn't let you off of anything.
Listen to the Westminster Hour last Sunday. In House criticism - fine but too much plotting is suspected.
I am not a big fan of any MoP but what it does suggest to me - criticism from ALL sides - is the Speakers reasonable impartiality. I rather enjoyed his responses this afternoon as various House Of Commons occupants lined up to scream "It weren't me Governor!" about expenses. Collective guilt? Where? lol
This attitude to Mr Speaker reminded me of the seemingly childish resentment over in the USA by a small number of personages for who actually occupies the White House now. You would have though there had been a coup d'etat in the USA rather than an election.
So MoPs - take your medicine and behave with better grace.
Kate Hoey - ignoring perhaps the suggestion from the Speaker that she was too available for that telling "soundbite" gave young Mr Mair the above "soundbite" about Ms Boothroyd.
I wished a few MoPs like Churchill were back and come to think of it - The Tiller Girls too but it aint going to happen. It is called progress.
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A lot of people died to give us the right to vote, and a lot of people are still laying down their lives to continue to give us that freedom, is it not a dis-service to spoil ones ballot paper? If you dont agree with the choice of candidate - Then it is time you used that Freedom and put your name forward - you never know -people might not agree with you!
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It's the SMART-ALEC behaviour....
...and the fundamental INEQUALITY their standard of living represents........
...and from people responsible for our LEGAL system!!!
But, but, but...it's what everyone has been encouraged to do, behaviour positively approved of, since Thatcher and Blair.
Be 'clever', look after number one and set the rules so that ill gotten gains are protected.
These were the social rules set by the derelict and bankrupt Thatcher-Blair ideology.
It was as if the whole country had the morals of Stalin, the Russian oligarchs and Peter Mandelson instead of the ethics of the Welfare State and social-ism.
Ah, you may say, what else do you expect from a country founded on cheating the world?
Perhaps such voices are right. Perhaps there is no salvation for this country, its politicians, its financiers, its so-called thinkers.
Perhaps we are all too cynical, post modern, too full of ourselves, too Edgie Mare, not enough Eddie Mair.
Those never on the gravy train and never wanting to be, who work aa they truly should, are our only hope.
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Steelpulse (37) - Ah, good old Kate Hoey - the Labour Member for the Conservative Party. Has become ever more blue since she was dropped from the Government in 2001 when the extent of her ability was fully comprehended.
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HI
I Stood for Parliament in 2005, effectively as a 'none of the above'
candidate, under the 'banner' SPOIL PARTY GAMES, rather as you emailer was demanding.
What is more, having garnered my 86 votes (because anger had not yet awoken the slumbering electorate) I told a sea of blank faces (well - more a
puddle) at Newbury racecourse, that the 'end was nigh' - the end of the
disgraceful Westminster Charade. HOW RIGHT I WAS!
There you go.
Barrie Singleton
PS Ideally, the voting slip would say: 'NO CONFIDENCE IN WESTMINSTER GOVERNANCE.'
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In the first democratic election in Russia (in 75 years), after the fall of Communism and collapse of the Soviet Union, there were well over 50 political parties on the ballot list, FOLLOWED by the ineffable line "none of the above".
Watching from the UK, I thought it rather touching, for what was then (and still remains) an embryonic democracy.
But that was kids' stuff. Now they have learnt to fix multy-party elections but good!
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How times have changed:
Hansard
On 12th May 1960
Mr. Parker asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he is aware of public concern about the methods of criminal investigation employed by the Metropolitan Police fraud squad
On 12th May 2009 (tomorrow)
'Mr Parker' might be asking the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he is aware of MP's concern about the methods of criminal investigation employed by the Metropolitan Police Fraud Squad.
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And now, the real crunch.
We now have a POLITICAL crisis.
At the beginning of the BANKING crisis, Mervyn King, Governor of the Bank of England,was calling for secret powers (for the Bank, the Chancellor and the FSA) to support banks secretly. (Ie without telling us, the voters. 'Cos we are not to be trusted with our own money. We tend to take it out of banks that are going bust.)
And throughout the BANKING crisis there have been constant warnings to the media that they should say nothing that causes distrust of our financial system. Even if the TRUTH is that we should distrust it, in fact abolish it.
So......, given the POLITICAL crisis, and given the way the Treasury (like the Home Office etc) behave and the BoE Governors's belief in minimising public information if necessary, and (thus) are so SECRETIVE... with the TRUTH!!!.....
...What do YOU think the chances are, during this ECONOMIC crisis of SLUMPFLATION (huge unemployment and inflation in the assets of the rich and in what the rest of us buy in the shops), of getting a single word of TRUTH from
Bankers
Governements
Central Banks
Industialists
Politicians????
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(25) David, I suspected as much seeing how you made 7 out of 25 comments trying to draw attention to same.
Think it rather lovely that you are making such (benign) contributions. Long may it last.
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Re domination of politics by the main parties.
These parties seem to have become colonised by policyphobes who cover up their condition with a nervous imitation of political processes.
Due to proportional representation in the European elections a political cockpit has now developed that includes small but significant parties with genuine policies. If a worthwhile debate is generated this time around then is this not more likely to come from a clash between Libertas and UKIP rather than from the input of Conservative or Labour?
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I was interested to listen to the speaker of the House Michael Martin getting irate about the leaking of information about MP's expenses to the press and the report that he had written letters to every newspaper expressing his dissatisfaction.
I was wondering if he got his wife to deliver them in a taxi and whether she claimed for the journey as a parliamentary expense.
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39
We don't need a return to toff rule, of people rich enough to pretend they are altruistic. They are rich because of another set of legal scams. whether ancient or modern. We don't need a return to any sort of Toryism.
Instead, we need those both dispossessed and just to take up the reins.
It would also be a stupid mistake to reward with power middle class intellectuals for their 'good' roles in all this.
That is their job, they did it well. But they come from the wrong social class.
Their law degrees etc are theirs because of their privilege. Let's have complete freedom of information about that.
We need people from the right CLASS doing the right thing.
It is just blind prejudice to think that ordinary working class people can't do the NCCL, Child Poverty, Amnesty, Freedom of Information thing.
So don't hide behind it, comrades. Remember the importance of self criticism.
Remember the heroes of socialism here. From A. Bevan to E. Heffer to G. Jackson to G. Dunwoody, the working class has had the ability to thrown up capable leadership every crisis.
Let us have no truck with the sort of racism that says that 'The AfroCaribbean/Asian working class leaders are not ready' They are. Only public hypocrisy holds them back. Do not cooperate with such dishonesty, comrades.
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Lady Sue - he is sweet, isn't he?
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Sid, he's such a love.
Beach? Swim? Drink? All badly needed... see you there xx
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Good grief, there are two of them now!
"The Beach" might become our last refuge in its apocalyptic sense.
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Is that the same Speaker Martin who furnished his grace and favour dwelling in sumptuous Louis 14th opulence at the taxpayers expense a while ago?
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I realise I missed the apostrophe in taxpayers' expense. Sorry.
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's ok.
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57
Snot.
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Stephan Fly doesn't seem to have noticed that it is yet another case of the ruling class taking no notice of voters.
Dressed as a penguin for a night out in London which costs a hundred each, worrying about political financial dishonesty seems bourgeois, apparently.
The anti-war movement was never sure enough about the rightness of its cause successfully to mass trespass at Fairford.
This, everyone except Fly is clear about. Voters were being treated like fools and presented with a no-choice choice.
It is a potential Iskra. For the principle of flagrant voter disregard and opinion management is THE main tactic of the ruling class and its running dogs in the political sphere.
The proper political gradient is from this issue to the Afghanistan War and the Slump.
On the grounds that anti war sentiment is more important, Fly seeks to de-energise this protest at MP's behaviour.
Actually STOPPING the wars and scrapping the iniquitous market system are more important still.
But that is to say that the gunpowder is more important than the firework fuse.
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57 snot snot.
56 snot.
sid snot right.
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58
Dinner for two and a film cost him 200 as of March last year.
A freebie at Sony Playstation players expense, nothing, one imagines Fly thinks.
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I've often thought about forming a "none of the above party" (candidates would have to change name to something beginning Zy...). The sole manifesto pledge would be, if elected, to gather voters' concerns, put these to the main parties and when the main parties fielded candidates committed to addressing these concerns, step down and force a by-election.
On a related note, what about requiring candidates to put on the ballot what they will claim in expenses, etc. (i.e. what it costs us to have them as our MP)? This way we can assess the value-for-money of each candidate?
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40. The Intermittent Horse
Criticise the Labour Party and you're the member for the Conservatives? Hmm. She sounds to me like one of the few honest MPs who's also intelligent enough to see the writing on the wall, and tells it how it is. Not being a subservient clone like most NewLabour apparatchiks doesn't make her a Tory.
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Charlie 30, Yep, 5th of July. We will be on our way back from France.
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L_S 45, It might soon be ten contributions.
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invisibleatheist (62) - Over recent years, with the exception of the Iraq War, her views on most policies were almost indistinguisable from those of Boris Johnson, whom she all but endorsed as London Mayor.
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66
None of the above.
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I believe that Hoey is in favor of reversing the hunting ban.
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Kate Hoey is pro-hunting. She chairs The Countryside Alliance.
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67, 68
So she can't be right about this, can she.
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TRW (49) What makes you think that?
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TIH @ 70, "think"?
Does not compute.
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TIH(#70) I think TRW may have had his/her tongue in their cheek when they said(wrote) #69. Just because she is pro-hunting (something I am dead against myself) doesn't mean that sdhe can't be right on what she said in the HoC yesterday...
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All our banknotes carry the statement " I promiseto pay the bearer on demand the sum of ....pounds." If I presented a note at the Bank of England and asked for that promise to be redeemed, what would I get ?
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Jim (72) - I know he had. So had I. :o)
He seemed to assume that just because I don't like her or her views and similar to many in her constituency party, can't understand what she is doing in The Labour Party, that I thought her views on MPs' expenses were wrong. I don't. Or rather I don't care what her views are.
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happyRoinek @ 73, I believe they are obliged to give you another note of the same value. So far as I know they don't have to give you either notes of a different denomination to the same face value, or coin to the same value, though they generally will, probably as a "customer goodwill gesture".
They don't have to take coins over a certain value either, and I think they are allowed to charge for doing so.
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TRW - 48 and all else
I was born under socialism, "comrade".
Nobody could graduate in their chosen profession unless they passed exams (dusts off the old Diploma) in:
The History of the Communist Party of the USSR, Marxist-Leninist Philosophy, Dialectical Materialism, Political Ecomony, Scientific Communism and the Foundations of the Scientific Atheism. I passed exams on DAS KAPITAL twice - in the first and in the fourth year.
But until I came to the UK I have never seen hot water coming out of a tap or a room, called "bedroom", where people went to sleep or to be alone, as opposed to a room in which the whole family ate, sat and slept, including the wife's mother paralysed from the neck down on a camp bed in the corner (I watched her lying there for 12 years, when visiting that room).
I gave birth in a ward shared by 11 other women, without anaethetics, with all babies delivered in our full view.
In 1989 the whole of Eastern Europe rose against Communist oppression. Soon enough the USSR and Yugoslavia collapsed. Socialism/Communism have had their chance. It doesn't work as I know on my own skin.
I FIND YOUR IGNORANT COMMENTS PUERILE AND OFFENSIVE.
I love coming to this blog, I like to read the opinions and the jokes, I am glad of the companionship as my cancer has limited my freedom of movement.
I shall be sorry to have to abandon this small joy in my life, but you are getting too close to the bone.
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Cossackgirl - most of us feel the same, though we have not suffered from the tyranny of state-imposed equality as you have. But if you go, then TRW wins. It's always the way with socialist bores. They take over the world because the rest of us lose the will to live. So please don't go ...
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Cossackgirl #76, I second what Sid says in #77. Please don't leave!
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cossack girl - I have been reading your entries with much interest, although I havent written to you before.
I totally agree with Sid and Jim - there are posters on here who spam their viewpoints just like bores do in pubs.
Please just skim over anything from TRWTheRealWorld - there is no need to read it, it is always the same every day.
And I will be delighted if you keep posting your thoughts here - and am sending you all good wishes and companionship
nikki
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Instead of all this fuss over M.P.s expense claims,can't the press return to real issue's.
I work within the home insulation industry[cavity wall and loft insulation],this industry is on the brink of collapse due to the power companies and government departments inability to promote and fund grants.
If insulation companies are to expand to cope with government targets,they must have a constant trade not BOOM and BUST.
Come on Mr.Brown keep your T.V.promise,INSULATION GRANTS NOW!!
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Cossackgirl -- wot they sed.
Have a gorilla?
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77, 78, 79, 81 Sid, Jim, Nikki and Chris
I love you all, thanks!
There was a long survey of the 1989 events in the last Sunday Times magazine and it made me so proud of all those youngsters on the Berlin Wall and elsewhere. So grateful, too.
Coming here and getting a faceful of (what the mods won't let me say) from that zombie made me sick.
Better now!
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BaziltheDog (38) Hear hear!
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Appers @ 83, since more than half those entitled to vote often seem not to bother, and since that may be because what they mean is "none of the above", allowing them to exercise their franchise in order to say what they mean might increase the numbers who bother to turn out at all. Once they are in the habit of voting at all, then they may find one of the candidates whom they wish to vote against marginally less than they wish to vote against the others, but "none of the above" does at least give them a chance to say what they mean, it seems to me.
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Chris (84) - I'm not sure I agree with you. Round here there are many non-voters who couldn't begin to tell you what they 'mean', who have no idea what any of 'the above' stand for, and have not the slightest interest in finding out. I know - I'm knocking on their doors at the moment ...
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Cossackgirl: While agreeing with the others who have sided with you against the meandering posts of you know who upset you, I do think you're conflating Russia and socialism; elsewhere, socialism isn't the fascistic police state that it became in Russia. Since 'democracy' came to Russia, it's not exactly been a bed of roses either; plenty of billionaire oligarchs, the former head of the KGB still running things via a puppet, and plenty of poor people who are arguably worse off now than they were under the so-called socialist system. I think it's a Russian problem. To go straight from a feudal czarist system to socialism when Marx's writing was based on advanced German capitalism was probably too short a jump. They never got as far as dissolving the state and creating a pure communist society, too many male egos fighting for power and control.
Your comments are always worth reading, unlike certain posters who I tend to scroll past.
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Sid 85, What is your opinion of telling?
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bs 41, Agent Provocateur, eh?
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86.ia
I do hope you drop by here again. Thank you for a very intelligent post, you will not be surprised that I am aware of your points; I also agree with a lot.
A couple of adds: Marx did an awful lot of his writing in London and in fact believed that the workers will take over the means of production from the bourgeoisie in Britain in the first instance. He never dreamt of Russia as the land of rising socialism (not enough industrial proletariat).
Hence the need for Lenin to adapt Marxism to Russian conditions, creating Marxism-Leninism, in part by declaring the impoverished part of peasantry to be "agrarian proletariat". Moreover, Lenin believed that, left to itself, proletariat is only capable of producing "trade union" style demands, not a push for political power. Which explains his need to create the Party to lead the workers intellectually, based on the lines of a religious millenarian cult.
I have been lecturing for years on this material. If you post to show that you have seen this, I'll post a thing or two on modern Russia which is more tricky than what you have written so far. I hope you do know that Vladimir Putin's nickname in the corridors of the European Union is "Vladimir Bonaparte", not without reason.
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