The Glass Box.

Eddie Mair | 11:55 UK time, Friday, 20 March 2009

The Glass Box is where the PM team meets in at 18.00 every weeknight to discuss the content of the programme.

We try to be honest with each other, but not hurtful, as we talk about what worked and what didn't...what met our expectations and what fell short.

This virtual glass box is where you're encouraged to take part in the same spirit. Tonight's editorial team will read your comments and may well add their own.

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Comments

1. At 12:11pm on 20 Mar 2009, Jennifer Tracey wrote:
Hello

Sorry blog comment system has been down for a couple of hours this morning. Our Maidenhead had an outage...

'There has been an outage at Maidenhead this morning, and as a result DNA is down. Apologies for the interruption!'

Drop us a line if you still having probs.

pm [at] bbc.co.uk

thanks
Jen

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2. At 12:31pm on 20 Mar 2009, U13879755 wrote:
Jen

I'm afraid it may have been all my fault! I was trying to get the message out that Britain is as "Sound as a Pound", but the blog software, being American, can't seem to handle the pound sign, and went all doolally!

I got a very polite email from the Bloglodytes
"Dear Ed Iglehart

Thank you for your comments to the BBC blogs and your testing of the comment system.

While we genuinely appreciate the research you're doing on the new templates, the posts are causing a significant amount of technical disruption and we have been forced to close your account temporarily.

Can you please reply to this email to confirm that you will stop testing the templates so that we are able to reinstate your account?

Many thanks.

Regards

BBC Central Communities Team"
So it seems I'm now, "The man who broke the blogs of England" (and Scotland, Earth, the Universe and Everything....

The Bloglodytes also sent me a message via the blogs (just before the "Fall"):
" Ed Igleheart - will you please stop doing whatever it is you are doing as it is disrupting the blog comments. It's off topic anyway."

Salaaaaaami
BA

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3. At 12:33pm on 20 Mar 2009, funnyJoedunn wrote:
It was working ok in
Bo-Diddly-Boing-Odawa-Idaho, Population 9.

Outage? DNA? what the hell are you on about?

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4. At 12:38pm on 20 Mar 2009, DI_Wyman wrote:
Our Maidenhead had an outage...ooohh aaahh Matron.

Comments.

The comment service has been closed temporarily for maintenance. It will return shortly.

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5. At 12:40pm on 20 Mar 2009, Anne P. wrote:
Born Again (Ed I.) will they let you have your real self back do you think?

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6. At 12:45pm on 20 Mar 2009, Big Sister wrote:
Good heavens! All that, and in Maidenhead of all places!

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7. At 1:15pm on 20 Mar 2009, Lady Sue wrote:
While your fiddling around with the BBC website Ed, could you put in a "search" function for the blog pages? This to enable us to get back to a "conversation" without having to guess and click repeatedly.

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8. At 1:31pm on 20 Mar 2009, Lady Sue wrote:
BTW: I sent an email into 'Open Book' this morning in response to a listener query and got this reply:

"Thank you for your email. Unfortunately because of the volume of emails we receive, we can't guarantee to read and reply to all of them."

Surely the 'Open Book' team can't be busier than the very gracious PM Team who have programmes six days a week, do read all our emails, reply to some and read all our silly and not-so-silly posts?

Any explanation?

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9. At 1:58pm on 20 Mar 2009, U13879755 wrote:
MiLady,

An email to PM gets this response:
"Thank you for sending your email to the PM programme on BBC Radio Four. This is an automated reply to confirm that your message has reached us and will be drawn to the attention of the programme's presenter and producers."
i.e. a promise that it will be read (or at least passed on)

Maybe the folk at "open book" are slow readers?

;-)
bae
(who can be anyone he chooses by passing through the Magic Archway)

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10. At 2:22pm on 20 Mar 2009, Lady Sue wrote:
Think the folk at 'Open Book' don't want to encourage communication from their listeners. Perhaps word has got out from PM that it can create a monster that gets out of control.

I know I'm missing something with this Magic Archway business - talk me through it a step at a time, I'm only a little old lady after all.

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11. At 2:50pm on 20 Mar 2009, Chris_Ghoti wrote:
The BBC data centre at Maidenhead got flooded a couple of years ago.

Ed, what are you doing with that hose-pipe? Ed...... No....

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12. At 3:21pm on 20 Mar 2009, Sid wrote:
Ed - I was in desperate need of a laugh just now - so thanks very much for your (2). Just the job!!!

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13. At 3:55pm on 20 Mar 2009, U13879755 wrote:
Sid,

I just love "a significant amount of technical disruption"

You've goota laugh!

;-)
bae

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14. At 4:59pm on 20 Mar 2009, David_McNickle wrote:
fJd 3, You've been watching too much Little Britain in the US.

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15. At 5:12pm on 20 Mar 2009, Gillianian wrote:
Ed, you'd test the patience of a saint ;o)Keep on keepin' on! xx

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16. At 5:15pm on 20 Mar 2009, David_McNickle wrote:
AP 5, EI EI? OH!

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17. At 5:20pm on 20 Mar 2009, glenn2500 wrote:
Scrapping "older, more polluting" cars
------------------------------------------

What is wrong with older cars? My 12 year old Astra diesel does 55mpg,
is very reliable, and I only put about 3000 miles a year on it. What possible benefit is there in throwing away a perfectly functional and economic car?

Why should my tax contributions go to those who basically could afford a
brand new car anyway?

What's next, I wonder. Perhaps *anything* we own over 5 years old (bed, TV, fridge, table, etc.) should be thrown out as part of our contribution to the economy.

Older cars are already classed with the most polluting for tax purposes - my 55mpg Astra is apparently the same as an 8 mpg new Humvee.

Wasting money on new items when the old one is fine does not make economic sense, personally or for the country. Scrapping efficient vehicles does not make environmental sense. This government has no sense, and neither do the opposition.

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18. At 5:27pm on 20 Mar 2009, David_McNickle wrote:
C'mon, that sound wasn't a tiger. It was a piece of string attached to a can.

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19. At 5:29pm on 20 Mar 2009, David_McNickle wrote:
EI 2, So, you're the person who gubbered up the blog this morning?

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20. At 5:35pm on 20 Mar 2009, David_McNickle wrote:
EI 2, If I use my circle templates, will I be banned as well? Ellipses? What templates are they talking about?

template

Slalom

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21. At 6:00pm on 20 Mar 2009, TheFirstRalph wrote:
You do a report on the benefits and pitfulls of Obama doing chat shows but failed to report his crass remark about the 'Special Olympics' (something he has apologised about) and let Charles Kennedy gush about Obama a bit.

Quality reporting yet again.

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22. At 6:21pm on 20 Mar 2009, makeitclear wrote:
The Pope, I gather, has been portrayed in a cartoon in the times with a condom on his head, and our cardinal is offended.

Perhaps he should reserve his righteous indignation for the dreadful policies of this pope.

Swastikas, or facist insignia of alternate choice, might be equally appropriate cartoon devices.

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23. At 6:23pm on 20 Mar 2009, Dennis Junior wrote:
Jen:
When I started to file information at 02.20PM Eastern time...The system is working...

~Dennis Junior~

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24. At 6:54pm on 20 Mar 2009, JotheEditrice wrote:
Hello all,
On technical difficulties of my own, I think my comments should now appear in a white box- ooerr.
Anyway, lots of people emailed in to take issue with the personal view of Prof Kevin Morley, who thinks that any self respecting nation needs a car industry,and that therefore the government should support it in various ways, especially a 'scrappage' scheme. I'm sorry we ran out of time before we could read out any of your emails, but while there was some support for Prof Morley, the overwhelming majority of you think there are far too many cars on the road anyway, and that any scheme to scrap old ones and replace them with newer ones is not a good solution to either the recession or the environment.
But we thought we'd try something new, i.e. asking one person to present a personal view, and it certainly generated heat. The question is, did it generate light too? Should we do some more, should we always run 2 balancing pieces? What do you all think, eh?
Personally I loved Charles Kennedy's thoughts on Obama on Leno, and the iPM cut down. If you're not sick of hearing from me at this point, you can read what I wrote about this Saturday's edition of iPM on the BBC Editors' Blog, at http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2009/03/ipm_your_news.html.
Have a nice weekend,
Jo

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25. At 7:14pm on 20 Mar 2009, U13879755 wrote:
Jo,

Your link fails because it inadvertently includes a full stop.

Corrected

Slainte!
bae

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26. At 7:46pm on 20 Mar 2009, Ed Iglehart wrote:
Four posts to Trustie

;-)

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27. At 8:48pm on 20 Mar 2009, Lady Sue wrote:
(26) Ed! You are back!

Moderated ... but back! (nearly)

Wonderful.

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28. At 9:31pm on 20 Mar 2009, cbutchn wrote:
Scrapping old cars!
I have an old Mercedes which still passes any modern tests, a 1963 Rover which comes damn close, and a Jaguar which I bought instead of a nice share portfolio which the bank suggested. So Whoo Hoo and Parp! Parp! and how I wish I had the overweening impertinence to be Fred Goodwin.
My main point is that the purveyors of modern cars fail to factor in the energy consumption involved in production and the time taken by supposedly less efficient vehicles to equal this. My message would be along the lines of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" and buy some spanners and a manual! Enjoy! Ow!

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29. At 04:59am on 21 Mar 2009, funnyJoedunn wrote:
David McNickle (14)

Actually it was Harry Enfield (Harry and Paul) on the BBC.

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30. At 09:35am on 21 Mar 2009, Lady Sue wrote:
Ed: your are talking in riddles again. What is this point scoring to Trustie all about?

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31. At 09:42am on 21 Mar 2009, Gillianian wrote:
Lady Sue - a new blogger is pre-moderated until they have posted a certain number of ''acceptable'' comments. After that number is reached, they become a ''Trusty'' and comments are shown without pre-modding.
Ed appeared here in a new guise for a while, so to all intents and purposes he was a Newbie ;o)

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32. At 10:59am on 21 Mar 2009, U13879755 wrote:
MiLady,

Gillianian has the right of it, excpt that it appears I now have three bodies available, but can only inhabit one at a time - drat! And one is still imprisoned for "disruptive behaviour"....

My research has also revealed that a new poster needs to make either five or six posts to the blog to become a trustie. Strangely, the first post as a trustie will appear instantly, while the first lot remain in limbo awaiting moderation...

I'm working on a table to aid in getting some interesting characters to appear...ÃáÃéÃíÃóÃúÃ¼Ã½Ã¾Ã¿Ã£Ã¥

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33. At 11:02am on 21 Mar 2009, David_McNickle wrote:
fJd 29, OK, you haven't been watching enough Little Britain in the US.

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34. At 11:03am on 21 Mar 2009, U13879755 wrote:
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
35. At 11:08am on 21 Mar 2009, U13879755 wrote:
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
36. At 11:15am on 21 Mar 2009, Gillianian wrote:
Ed - in the days of yore, Marc Settle played a similar game, and he gave us a link to
www.starr.net/is/type/altnum.htm

I still haven't learned how to make a direct link here - the Â£ sign is enough of a faff ;o)

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37. At 11:18am on 21 Mar 2009, Gillianian wrote:
Oh Ed!! I guess you were speaking in a foreign language again!

Behave yourself ;o)

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38. At 11:21am on 21 Mar 2009, Lady Sue wrote:
Gillianian: thank you for your explanation!

Ed: thanks for the extra information. I sometimes feel like a 'Newbie'.

I see you've been moderated at 34 and 35 Ed, so I imagine you've been putting up something foreign - I know from last week, they don't like that.

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39. At 11:22am on 21 Mar 2009, Lady Sue wrote:
Gillianian: you had precisely the same thought I did!

At least they don't mod for jargon (titter).

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40. At 11:29am on 21 Mar 2009, Gillianian wrote:
Lady_Sue (38) Ed's been tinkering with his Alt Key Codes again!

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41. At 11:46am on 21 Mar 2009, Lady Sue wrote:
Gillianian, Ed is going to have to be very careful in case he crashes the website again and gets banned altogether. Perhaps he's trying to get his posts up in different colours? (Go on Ed, have a go!)

BTW: Did anyone else listen to (via pod cast or whatever it is) the iPM programme this morning?

My loyalty to the PM/iPM team is such that I don't want to sound too negative but I don't think the format works.

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42. At 12:01pm on 21 Mar 2009, U13879755 wrote:
Ye Mods! It's only ASCII

;-)
ed

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43. At 12:36pm on 21 Mar 2009, Lady Sue wrote:
(42) Ed: you're slipping. I got a 404 page loader error.

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44. At 1:03pm on 21 Mar 2009, U13879755 wrote:
No, Milady, it's the software slipping. For some unknown reason, if you look in the 'address bar' at the top of your browser, you'll see the software has inserted a pointless and useless but destructive into the address. Remove that, and hit 'return', and you'll get the page....

Some potentially useful characters:

GBP symbol- Â£ (type Â£)
Yen symbol- Â¥ (type Â¥)
Copyright symbol- Â© (type Â©)
Less than- < (type < OR <)
More than- > (type > OR >)
Ampersand- & (type & OR &)
a acute- Ã¡ (type Ã¡)
e acute- Ã© (type Ã©)
i acute- Ã (type Ã)
o acute- Ã³ (type Ã³)
u acute- Ãº (type Ãº)
a umlaut- Ã¤ (type Ã¤)
o umlaut- Ã¶ (type Ã¶)
u umlaut- Ã¼ (type Ã¼)

Copy and past them somewhere before it gets Modded

;-)

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45. At 1:28pm on 21 Mar 2009, U13879755 wrote:
Character list now archived
As part of the Tutorial

You can copy and paste the codes where you want to use the character, e.g. Why not visit ZÃ¼rich for a change?

SlaintÃ©
bae

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46. At 1:50pm on 21 Mar 2009, David_McNickle wrote:
L_S 41, I haven't listened to the iPM program since it moved. I don't listen to anything at that time of day. I thought it was a waste of time before it moved.

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47. At 1:54pm on 21 Mar 2009, David_McNickle wrote:
EI 42, I've used ASCII elsewhere, but never tried it here. Windows has a similar list. ¥

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48. At 1:56pm on 21 Mar 2009, David_McNickle wrote:
Thought it wouldn't stay for long...

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49. At 1:59pm on 21 Mar 2009, David_McNickle wrote:
Ã¼

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50. At 2:00pm on 21 Mar 2009, David_McNickle wrote:
re 49, Interesting, but a waste of time.

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51. At 2:04pm on 21 Mar 2009, David_McNickle wrote:
L_S 43, I got a load of rubbish about BBC blogs.

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52. At 08:38am on 22 Mar 2009, Lady Sue wrote:
(44) Ed you are a clever chap! I did as per your instruction and got the right page, thankyou. I've also copied and pasted those symbols, just in case I should ever need them.

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53. At 08:40am on 22 Mar 2009, Big Sister wrote:
So, can I now see the Â&#163 sign, I wonder?

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54. At 08:41am on 22 Mar 2009, Big Sister wrote:
No, the symbols aren't working for me (thought that's the first ampersand and hash symbol I've ever been able to post, but nerry a sight of the pound).

G'day Lady Sue! ;)

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55. At 08:42am on 22 Mar 2009, Big Sister wrote:
(type Â£)

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56. At 08:48am on 22 Mar 2009, Big Sister wrote:
Â£

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57. At 08:49am on 22 Mar 2009, Big Sister wrote:
Oh! finally there!

Thank you, EdI!

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58. At 10:15am on 22 Mar 2009, funnyJoedunn wrote:
Three million pounds lump sum.

seven hundred and six thousand six hundred and twenty seven pounds and 35p per annum

Think I prefer it cash myself.

Thanks anyway Ed.

F Goodwyn.

Yea twenty thousand pounds per annum for not living at mi Mums house.

I think I prefer it that way too.

T McNulty.

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59. At 10:30am on 22 Mar 2009, David_McNickle wrote:
fJd 58, I'll bet your mum does too.

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60. At 12:22pm on 22 Mar 2009, Chris_Ghoti wrote:
Small experiment, forgive it: I shall type the £ sign as it appears on my keyboard, just to see whether it will appear on this blog.

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61. At 12:23pm on 22 Mar 2009, Chris_Ghoti wrote:
Nope. Thank you for your patience, frogs; it used to be fine before the most recent "improvements" here.

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62. At 12:26pm on 22 Mar 2009, Scotch-git wrote:
£

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63. At 12:29pm on 22 Mar 2009, Gillianian wrote:
Chris - you have to put A with a circumflex above it immediately before the Â£
I use Alt + 0194, with Number Lock on.

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64. At 12:55pm on 22 Mar 2009, U13879755 wrote:
Gillianian,
"I use Alt + 0194, with Number Lock on."
Works in windoze, but not with my linux. I have to use the &#194;&#163;

That's what the table is for.

SlaintÃ©

(You can probably do the Ã© with Alt + 0195 Alt + 0169 (or paste Ã© )

;-)
ed

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65. At 1:09pm on 22 Mar 2009, U12196018 wrote:
Gillianian's Â£
Ed's Â£

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66. At 1:42pm on 22 Mar 2009, Lady Sue wrote:
€

Oh! Look what I got when I followed Gillianian's instructions. I also got a "bing" from the keyboard.

€

That with Ed's...

Spooky

(in case they don't come up, both Euro signs)

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67. At 1:46pm on 22 Mar 2009, David_McNickle wrote:
C_G 61, Still using the Sinclair C5, I see.

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68. At 1:58pm on 22 Mar 2009, David_McNickle wrote:
I can't get rid of the = through my letter &+194;&+165;

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69. At 2:00pm on 22 Mar 2009, David_McNickle wrote:
Or better yet, I cant get rid of the = through my letter Â¥

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70. At 2:03pm on 22 Mar 2009, David_McNickle wrote:
Or even the - through the letter Â¥

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71. At 2:28pm on 22 Mar 2009, Chris_Ghoti wrote:
DMcN @ 67, even if I were I don't think I would expect to use a battery-powered car to produce a pound sterling symbol on a blog.

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72. At 3:06pm on 22 Mar 2009, RJMolesworth wrote:
£10 for the first techie who can get the

Â&#163 symbol to work.

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73. At 3:08pm on 22 Mar 2009, RJMolesworth wrote:
Â£

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74. At 3:09pm on 22 Mar 2009, RJMolesworth wrote:
Â&#163

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75. At 3:12pm on 22 Mar 2009, RJMolesworth wrote:
Gillianan 1 Ed 0 in my case. What did I do wrong Ed? Using Windows and IE.

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76. At 4:03pm on 22 Mar 2009, U13879755 wrote:
RJM,
"What did I do wrong Ed? Using Windows and IE."
Answer: Using Windows and IE.
;-)
And now, another test: The "new look" blogs don't do blockquote, so as an experiment, I've been trying to find a substitute for block quotation:

***

"[place quoted text here]"

***
(Copy and paste the section betwen *** and ***)
will give the following:

"Eventually this mechanistic line of thought brings us to the doctrine that whatever happens is inevitable. Actually, this stark determinism is altered in general use to a doctrine that is even more contemptible. Every bad thing that happens is inevitable. For every good thing that happens there are mobs of claimers of credit. Every good and perfect gift comes from politicians, scientists, researchers, governments, and corporations. Evils, however, are inevitable; there is just no use in trying to choose against them. Thus all industrial comforts and labor saving devices are the result only of human ingenuity and determination (not to mention the charity and altruism that have so conspicuously distinguished the industrial subspecies for the past two centuries), but the consequent pollution, land destruction, and social upheaval have been "inevitable.""

Looks perfect in preview, but We'll see......

;-)
ed

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77. At 4:04pm on 22 Mar 2009, U13879755 wrote:
Oh well, back to the coding board....It should have given indented text on a white background, but....

;-(

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78. At 4:23pm on 22 Mar 2009, U13879755 wrote:
New style test for indent:
"testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing "

End new style test
;-)
ed

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79. At 4:24pm on 22 Mar 2009, U13879755 wrote:
Drat!

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80. At 4:38pm on 22 Mar 2009, U13879755 wrote:
RJM(74), The semicolons are essential

Â£
gives
Â£

Another test
testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing

end test

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81. At 4:44pm on 22 Mar 2009, David_McNickle wrote:
C_G 71, Sorry, I meant a Sturmey-Archer 3 Speed.

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82. At 4:48pm on 22 Mar 2009, steelpulse wrote:
£1 billion $1 billion

It works. We are sorted now the lawyers run the world and its outrage.

I have just read a particular group are allegedly suing someone for $1 billion for a photograph. Another well known young person, this time male, has seemingly been photographed allegedly enacting the same insult.

£1 billion. Nice round figure.

Yup. I intend to reject the apology I have got due to me from the last alleged offender and issue a lawsuit against the young man for the insult.

And meanwhile I will look through my own photograph album and make sure........

Ok. I am being frivilous and the Olympic business was seriously not on - but in these straitened times - someone seems to think of a number and times it by several million and a legal firm is suddenly in business.

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83. At 4:48pm on 22 Mar 2009, David_McNickle wrote:
EI 80, I'll bet he/she typed (type etc, etc)

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84. At 4:52pm on 22 Mar 2009, U13879755 wrote:
DMN,
Surely you mean etc., etc.

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85. At 4:53pm on 22 Mar 2009, David_McNickle wrote:
EI 80, The odd thing is that when I first send any of those symbols, it has an 'A' in front of it. It disappears when I go to another thread, then return.

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86. At 4:55pm on 22 Mar 2009, David_McNickle wrote:
EI 78, You realise, of course, that we scroll through your indented, white background, posts.

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87. At 5:00pm on 22 Mar 2009, Chris_Ghoti wrote:
DMcN @ 81, I do indeed have and use one of those, but it isn't really much help for blogging a pound sterling symbol, you know.

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88. At 6:26pm on 22 Mar 2009, funnyJoedunn wrote:
DMC (59)

She begged me to stay-so shut yer gob!

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89. At 09:33am on 23 Mar 2009, David_McNickle wrote:
C_G 87, Raleigh?

fJD 88, Mine's dead.

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90. At 3:13pm on 23 Mar 2009, Chris_Ghoti wrote:
DMcN @ 89, yes.

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