Been hounded by the BBC for licence money?
The BBC Trust has a report on that very subject here. There's a summary here.
On the programme tonight we'll talk to the Chairman of the BBC Trust, Sir Michael Lyons. If you have a comment or question for him, add it here.
Listen to PM
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Dog, Gun, Rod, or TV and Radio?
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We've had two recent run ins with TV Licencing, and I think Sir Michael needs to tackle the licence issue urgently.
There is a lack of clarity over how the licence works, and I have been told different things by different operatives when I've had to speak to them about our situation.
We have two properties, but only use a TV in one of these. That licence is in my name. We have been repeatedly pursued over the second property, although when the situation (i.e. no TV or receptors there, so no need for a licence) the matter usually goes to rest for a few months. I have to say that I resent the tone of the communications that periodically come through trying to get us to buy a licence for the TV (etc) that we don't have there, and I resent having to keep making phone calls to sort the matter out. There is a presumption of guilty until proven innocence which goes contrary to our Common Law.
However, more recently, we had a different communication from TV Licensing. It was addressed to my husband, who had used his card to buy a Freeview box last December. As I mentioned earlier, the TV licence for our home is in my name. According to the communication from TV Licensing, there was no record of a licence here. I phoned them - and was told by the operative that the licences relate to the named person, not the premises. I then raised the issue of the other property - If that is the case, said I, why can't I use a TV when I'm in that house? I was told that I could, as long as I wasn't using one in the main home.
Now, I happen to think that operative was wrong - but I do think it is a nonsense that individuals are being pursued in a somewhat random way, and think that the whole system needs to be rethought.
I would be interested to hear from Sir Michael has to say about this.
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Big Sis, the operative was certainly not correct in implying that it only covered you, and that it covered use of the TV at the other property by you if you weren't using a TV at the main property. According to the TV Licencing website the licence covers:
The licence allows installation and use of TV equipment:
* at the licensed premises by anyone.
* in a vehicle, boat or caravan by:
* You and anyone who normally lives with You at the licensed place (so long as TV equipment is not being used in a non-touring caravan and at the licensed place at the same time).
* anyone, who normally works at the licensed place (so long as the vehicle, boat or caravan is being used for a business purpose).
Use of TV equipment powered by internal batteries anywhere:
* by You and anyone who normally lives with You at the licensed place.
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Quite, Fred, and that was my understanding! But the misleading thing (and look at the report for this, too) is that the wording usually applied is 'household'. And our household is covered by a licence, which happens to be in my name. My husband has lived at this address for nearly ten years, they have the address on their database as being 'licensed', they sent the communication to this address to say that there was no record of a licence - You get my drift?
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I resent the 'we know where you live' ads that my licence money is paying for. If I want scary, I'll read Stephen King.
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Have you got a literacy licence?
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Well, 6, I'm wondering if you've got a dog licence?!
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A few weeks ago I was opening the office mail. Not for the first time I read a communication from 'the licensing authority' regarding our address and there being no record of a valid TV Licence for it. Well, there wouldn't be, because we have no TVs or display equipment or recorders here.
There was a section on the form that allowed us to indicate that we had no licence at this address and the reasons for it. I duly filled it in. I then put the form in the provided envelope and sealed it. Only then did I notice that it wasn’t 'reply paid' and that I had to pay the postage.
Now the postage on one letter is not a major expense, but it really annoyed me that I was expected to pay to let someone else know that I didn't owe them money and persuade them to stop bothering me. The envelope was torn in two and put in the bin.
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Big Sis, I'm sorry to hear that things haven't changed in the last 30 years!
We had a spell of about a year when we didn't have a telly, and like you, received communications from TV Licensing that were written in a bullying tone.
We eventually bought another telly, and another licence - and not long after that, two burly men came to my door, demanding to see the licence.
I wrote to complain about the issue, but didn't even receive an acknowledgement.
You'd have thought things had changed by now.
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For twenty-four years at the same address we never had a television, and every year for about eighteen we got a threatening letter about this telling us we were in breach of the law. Once a year I replied politely saying "check your records: we do not have and have never had a television here". One year somebody turned up on the doorstep and tried to make me let him in so he could search my premises for a television. Since I didn't recognise his ID card (why would I?) I told him to go away and come back with a uniformed constable from the police-station fifty yards away. Which he did. The policeman said "Oh, *Chris*" at me in a slightly reproachful way, but agreed that he had told me himself at a neighbourhood watch meeting thingy not to let in people I didn't know. (grin)
So we had a cuppa and the poor gonk searched and found no telly, and then got cross with me: "Why didn't you just tell me you didn't have one?" Somehow being told "You didn't ask" made him even crosser; in fact I was quite glad there was a policeman there. (more grin)
The following year I got a grovelling letter telling me that a TV licence reminder had been sent to me in error and I was to ignore it. So I did, when it turned up the following week. They haven't bothered me since.
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Read this report and it's all alright then? Yes, we know that moving the licence from the Post Office to Paypoint upset some people, but so what? We know we sometimes pursue people aggressively and unneccessarily, but hey, it's not that big a problem...
And they miss the big picture - an increasing number of people object to paying due to some of the actions of the BBC. This issue and the one of watching via computer are going to grow over the next couple of years.
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CG 10 - lovely story.
Horse 8 - I hope you mean you put it in the recycling!
The trouble is that if you collect a tax then it's hard to do unless it is coming off a specific transaction (VAT/income) or applies to every adress without a letter which says they are exempt (like council tax).
And we resent paying it to some degree, not because it isn't worth it, it is, but because we have no choice. Surely the techmology exists to make the BBC a subscription channel on TV and the internet even if it is difficult with radio, which could still be covered by a reduced annual subscription.
Is there any reason why this wouldn't work?
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philtblog (12) - Nope, envelopes aren't accepted in our paper recycling!
Having complained about being 'hounded' at my workplace, I should say that I am perfectly happy paying the current licence fee for my TV at home. In fact I'd gladly pay most of it for Radio 4 alone.
And I'm glad that the nonsense report released yesterday by the Centre for Policy Studies (thinktank - haha!) on the remit of the BBC got the narrow attention, across all media, that it deserved.
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Never seen such long entries from froggers who are conventionally very brief.
This issue is certainly stirring things up.
Loved yours @10 Chris!
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We don't/didn/t (been away for 25 years) have TV licences in the US.
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We do not have a licence. We received many letters regarding this. I telephoned and recorded a conversation with the person who answered the telephone. When you do a google search to be employed as a TV License Enforcement Officer, (which is a very intimidating and misleading title to begin with), you get a page that is looking for bailiffs. I always thought bailiffs were ex-cons/coppers/army people. Why is it that I, as a mother, need a CRB check to work with children, yet TV etc..'Officers', don't need one? Why is it that after a visit from one of these paid snoopers, a property is statistically more often a victim of burglary? Is it that these people are casing the joint? Why do hotels have a special discount rate yet not women's refuges? Why are the majority of people who are fined single mothers, or those who have a poor grasp of the English language? Why do I have to prove I don't watch TV, yet don't have a gun 'officer' coming round to check that? Why do other countries feel it is a civil rights infringement for our government to endorse the licence fee? Is it because the government have shares in TV offshoot companies that they don't tell you about?
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I accept that there are many licence fee evaders; I accept that those who pay their licence fee should not have to subside those who do not. What I do not accept is that I, living in a television-free household, should be subject to threatening letters which tell me I am committing a criminal act by having not paid a licence fee to watch a non-existent television. Guilty until proven innocent, indeed.
The initial letter will include a small-print request on the back to telephone or write to the agency if you do not happen to own a television. It does not include an apology for the inconvenience.
If you don't notify them that you do not own a television, the letters become progressively more threatening and rude in tone and format (red print, capitals, accusations, etc.), and quickly drop any acknowledgement that you may well belong to one of those strange (and apparently rare) households who choose to spend their evenings cooking, knitting, gardening, reading, or - goodness me - actually TALKING to one another...
Of course, you can notify them that you don't own a television, and then they will take you off their list for a maximum of I think three years, after which they will contact you again to check you are still in residence at the address, without a television. They do tell you they will send an officer round to verify your lack of goggle-box, although I've yet to meet one.
But I have found myself wondering why I should have to, effectively, pay to disassociate myself from the television-viewing public. Why should I have to pay for a stamp, or a telephone call? Why should I have to take time out of my very busy gardening/knitting/reading/conversing schedule to halt the flow of vile, presumptuous letters?
And wouldn't it be nice if, when I did prove my innocence, I'd received a letter of apology written as strongly as the previous correspodence...
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Big Sis (2) you fat cats with multiple dwellings surely can afford two licences. It is funny how having a second home can cause so many people to get into difficulties.
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And anyway the licence fee payed someone to butcher the BBC web site, which was money well spent.
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I have no personal experience, but I have come across numerous horror stories on the web, including at least one video, purportedly of a TVL employee at 'work' that was quite nasty. I won't link to it, but you can use your commonsense. This damages the credibility of the BBC.
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Listening to the apologist for the BBC, it occurs to me to ask how many people were surveyed for this report? It may be buried in the report somewhere but I lost interest.
Judging by the entries on this blog, the people surveyed may not be entirely representative?
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I also have no TV and have had to put up with 2 years of bullying from the licensing people. My experience is more or less exactly the same as accounts above. What is really annoying is the tone adopted by the people on the telephones who have no appreciation of the law on proof and I have been told more than once that if I don't prove that I don't have a TV, then I will be prosecuted. I've also been blithely informed that I must allow a bailiff into my home or I'll have 'more bother'. I got rid of them last time by offering to appear at the court hearing where they request a warrant to enter my home. Nothing since!
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I don't have a television set and after receiving threatening Red Letters from the licensing company, I informed them I don't need a license. It's been two months and I'm still waiting on tenderhooks for a bailiff type 'enforcement officer' to come and search my flat. I would be more than willing to pay a subscription to listen to radio 4. Are the BBC too worried that no one will want one if they change the license fee to subscriptions like sky?
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We moved into our house about 7 yrs ago, and stupidly changed the name of the property. I say stupidly because TV licence were the only people that, even though they'd already sent us a licence for the new address, they also sent us year after year, threatening letters regarding the lack of licence at the old address. Do you think I could get them to understand......
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you are allowed to posses a tv without a licence ; it is illegal to recieve tv programs without a licence.
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In 2003 when my father -age 82- went into a home I cleared his house. While it was empty and on the market he received a constant barrage of letters about getting a TV licence, even after I had written to explain that a) the house was empty and b) he had been entitled to a free licence for several years. As the letters were automatically redirected to him at the care home before I could intercept them he became increasingly distressed, convinced he would be taken to court. This went on for months until, in fact, he died.
I approve of the licence and support the BBC but this behaviour is intolerable, it is also a waste of licence payers' money.
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The problem with this lot is that they are so wretchedly inefficient and incompetent at doing their job.
The form - well, there isn't one. You can't just tick a box, sign and return in the prepaid envelope - because there isn't one. Or fax back - no fax number. Oh no, you have to sit down in office hours and wait in a phone queue.
Now, when you have told them that your property is unoccupied and will be for the next 12 months, do they take any notice? Are they able to make a simple note not to keep sending letters saying that YOU MUST phone this number or the riot squad will batter your door down and you'll have to pay the expenses (or something).
Then when you phone the number, they say 'Oh that's OK, just ignore the letters'.
And then they send another one.
Incompetence? You couldn't make it up.
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Sir Michael who???
Dear Eddie,
How smooth does he have to try to be? Does he think that his
programming is so good that we must be criminal NOT to fall into line?
The BBC is ours and he is on another planet.
Guilty until proved innocent.
Well done for standing up to him.
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Telling the BBC you have no TV should be free of charge: an email address, a freepost address or an 0800 phone no. would be fine. At present you have only the choice between an 0845 number or a second class stamp, and further expense when they don't beleive you!
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I've lived at my current address for 12 years and I have NEVER had a TV for all that time. Two days ago I had one of the letters I get annually from the TV licensing people (addressed to "The Legal Occupier"!). It says:
"Do you still not use TV? Or has your situation changed?
Some time ago we were advised that no TV receiving equipment was being used to receive TV programmes at this address and therefore no TV licence was required.
Our standard practice is to now visit your address to confirm that no type of television receiver is being used there to watch or record TV programmes as they're being shown on TV. This includes the use of a TV set, digital box, DVD or video recorder, *COMPUTER or mobile phone. Our visit should take no longer than a few minutes.
If you are still not using TV receiving equipment at this address, you needn't take any action. Just expect a visit from us soon." *(capitals mine).
This is very worrying indeed. I have nothing in that list except for a computer - obviously, because that's what I'm using to contact you now - but if I get a visit from these people how can I prove to them that I don't watch live television programmes on it?
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Dear PM
My mother has never had a TV and as such has not had a licence.
She has spent some 6 years informing the BBC of this fact, and has on numerous occasions received letters which contain a picture of a court room with an annotation as follows
" this is where you will be standing"
I would would regard this as a some what over the top method of recovery.
regards
RS Craig
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To make these nasty people go away for two years, write them a letter and invoke the incantation: "I withdraw the right of implied access to my property from TV Licencing, the BBC and their employees. Should TV Licencing trespass on my property I will seek redress in the courts."
"Implied access" gives members of the public the right to come onto your property to knock on your door. You can withdraw this right by telling them they are trespassing, or you can do it formally in a letter.
Makes them leave you alone for two years, then you start getting the harassing letters again...
Or, if they come to your door, just tell them that you are recording the conversation (video or audio) on your mobile...
I have been harassed endlessly by TV Licencing, who do indeed treat their "customers" as criminals. The way they operate is legalised intimidation.
TV Licencing is a profit-making corporation - and they act like it.
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Thank you Eddie Mayer for not letting Michael Lyons get away with diversionary waffle on this subject. I don't have direct experience of the bizarre and unjustifiable 'opt out' policy on TV Licences, but do know that the BBC's unhelpful approach extends to refunds following cancellation. When I tried to do this just before temporarily leaving the UK a few months ago the list of 'proofs' demanded proved so daunting that in the end I gave up and decided I'd let them keep the money.
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The aggressive tactics were very unpleasant. Despite writing repeatedly and telephoning to confirm that I had no television I recieved letters with the outside marked LEGAL ACTION - very embarassing as I lived in an apartment and the letters were on display for everyone to see. I formally complained in writing and received a standard letter in repsonse failing to acknolwedge my concerns - and then more letters. There was absolutely no way to stop this. Michael Lyons spent his whole time talking about those who avoid the fee and completely failed to address the issue of those treated like criminals but who had done nothing wrong.
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I have a TV, but don't use it to watch television - simply for DVDs. I don't have an aerial or cable. But I have to pay £140 to the BBC every year...... I deeply resent this, but I can't face trying to explain this to the TV licencing authorities. My neighbour doesn't have a TV at all and has been hounded for years.
I think the BBC see non TV watchers as somehow abberant......I'm not - I just can't see the point of watching the rubbish that is put on these days....
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When i received one of these ridiculous letters more than thirty years ago when i did not have proper furniture to sit on never mind the luxury of a television set i was so outraged by their tone that I simply replied " I do not have a television licence for the same reason I do not have a dog, pilot's, gun etc etc licence. work it out morons!" I felt satisfied and never heard a word from them again.
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The conduct of the BBC and Capita as its agent in licence fee collection is, so far as I am concerned, a disgrace.
I do not watch broadcast TV at home.
I have told BBC/Capita this.
Every month or six weeks, for several years, I get ever more threatening letters - all, of course, undated!
The letters demand that I get a TV licence or prove I do not watch broadcast TV.
First, the approach taken is fundamentally wrong. I do not have to prove that I am not committing an offence!
Second, they have never once sent a reply-paid envolope to me to respond. Why should I waste my resourses in further responding?
Third, I take the view that the conduct I am experiencing borders on harassment; conduct which might well result in the BBC having to answer for its conduct in court.
STOP!
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Just heard Sir Michael Lyons on PM . A slippery type . Pleased that Eddie gave him a bit of a hard time .
The thing is , and at 62 , I've never had a telly , and yet the licence monies collecting agency continue to send to me near incredible , insultingly worded letters warning me of the preposterous penalties to be exacted from me for not forking out to watch tosh of - mostly - the purest drivel , on a device that I've never possessed .
When I bothered to open and read their pointed threats ( now , their letters are instantly binned , unopened, as soon as they come through the door ) it put me in a black mood for the rest of the day .
Thanks , BBC , for your utter lack of charm . You deserve to go under .
When , on occasion , the surly ones from the licence collecting agency come knocking and ask why I haven't got a licence and , furthermore , would like to enter my house to make sure my assertion that the house doesn't have a telly is correct , I tell them to 'sod-off ' . It's about the only satisfaction , such as it is , to be had over them .
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The culmination of harassment!
Some three and half years ago, I was visited by two people from TV licensing. It was evening and it was my birthday. The party was in full swing.
They hadn't read my email telling them who I was (they thought I was a previous tenant), nor that I hadn't had a TV since 1996. They asked if they could come in and inspect the house for themselves - in the middle of a party!
I told them they could come in, provided they could pay the inspection fee which was 250 pounds, each, cash, up-front. I asked whether they had that money. They said no. I said they couldn't come in then. They then threatened to keep sending me reminders and I informed them I would file them where I normally did.
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I'm a victim too. At my previous address I was visited by two men who I admitted to my home. They checked cables and things, said that's OK and left.
At my next property I received letters that required me to prove non-use of a TV. Something like: "some time ago we were informed that no TV was in use at this address". I am the first person to live in my home which was built only a few years ago!
It is bullying that could cause devastating harm on some vulnerable people.
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Ridiculous!! For various reasons my house has been unoccupied for over 12 months. Every three months I get a letter and I telephone to let them know that there is no one living there currently and that there is not a television on the premises.
Today I went to check on the house to find a hand written form saying that someone had called to find out why I didn't have a licence.
Harassment is not confined to written correspondence it seems!!
Apparently the licence fee that I do pay at the house where I live at the moment is not only wasted on overpaid foul mouthed tv presenters but on lesser beings chasing non existant licence evaders personally. Oh well I suppose it keeps the unemployment figures down.
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I was deeply unimpressed by Sir Michael Lyons' insistance that it was the great British public who give him a mandate to persecute those who do not have TV licences on the grounds that they do not have a TV. Personally, I would rather pay an extra £7 for my TV licence than to think that the BBC were harrassing innocent fellow subjects who have every right not to own a TV and every right not to disclose this fact. The presumption of innocence is an important part of our heritage and it is a small price to pay if three licence evaders go undetected for every non-TV owner who remains unharrassed. It all depends what question you ask in your focus group what answer you get.
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My husband and I have never had a TV: we've been married for 21 years now. Every time we move house we are harrasssed about not having a TV license. Last time we had letters that were increasingly threatening, but they were addressed to both of us... Then they started sending them just to me. I did write to them and point out that their level of harrassment from anyone else would be a Police matter. They still sent more threatening letters to me. They promised that someone would come to our house and if we let them see into our main living areas they would leave us alone for a while. Why should we show their enforcement officers round our home? What crime have we committed?
I remain an angry and threatened wife.
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Put the TV licence fee on to the Council Tax as they do in France. It does away with all the enforcement and collection issues. If you don't have a TV then you are required to send a declaration to the local tax office.
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Dont be such a bunch of woosis, just bin all the letters let them take you to court and prove you've got a telly.
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I run my business from a shop and office address. We do not have a television. Since moving in here 22+ years ago I have received a stream of threatening communications from TV Licensing (aka Crapita and others). No-one has ever called but I have complained to the BBC about harrassment and threats and advised the BBC that I have withdrawn my implied right of access any part of my premises or to continue to press me to buy a TV license. No reply, except another demand from TV Licensing to know my full name.
I have told TV Licensing that we do not have a TV many years ago. This stopped the threatening letters for about 8 months, then they started again. I no longer respond, I just ignore the demands. It is my understanding that it is not permissable to harrass someone in this way more than twice in 3 months. The letters are certainly more frequent than that and I cerrtainly dont intend to respond by phone at premium rates. The DVLA did not harass me when I did not own a car, so why does the BBC condone this in relation to TV licenses?
Helpful informatioin with regard to harrassment by BBC/TVL here:
http://www.bbctvlicence.com/Tips%20for%20avoidng%20TVL-BBC%20harassment.htm
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I too had a run in with TV licensing lot a few years back, having received several really unpleasant and threatening letters from them. I had a licence. I had paid for it. I had it in my house. It seems that they had typed the incorrect post code into their database at some point and despite my licence showing exactly the same details except for one digit, still kept sending me increasingly pressurising letters. One gave a date for a court appearance... I had a hard time dealing with this as they seemed incapable of joined up thinking or action. Every call I made (at my expense, of course...) should have cleared it up but no, their staff were incapable of sorting it out. The tone if the letters is designed to instil fear and trembling. I was a young educated professional and I found it very stressful. How more so would someone more fragile??? And no apology, of course...
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I've lived at my present address for 25 years and have never had a TV. When I had a threatening letter from TV Licensing a few years ago I wrote to my MP about it - I suggest others in my position do the same!
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Things may have changed since the days that I was hounded and insulted by TV licensing. However it was the case that you didn't need a license to own a TV only for watching broadcast programs. You could use your TV to watch DVDs without needing a license.
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Just to make something clear. My understanding is that a license is NOT required to OWN a TV set. It is only required to use one to receive LIVE broadcast TV. So if you only use a TV set to watch non-live stuff, like DVDs or pre-recorded web TV, then you don't need a license at all.
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I have been persistently harrassed at my business premises and am constantly replying to threatening letters. I have invited TV Licencing over the past two- three years to send an Inspector to clarify the situation. They have not bothered to do this as it is more cost effective to send out theatening letters hoping to bully people into buying an uneccessary licence than to visit the premises with a detector van or visit. I have neither a TV or other device.
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I found this news item misleading. The contributors talked about "proving one did or did not have a TV". My understanding of the two peices of legislation covering the Licence fee is that it illegal to recieve a live feed on a TV, NOT to own one. It is legal to watch a video or DVD, or even a recording of a past live feed. I believe this is why one does not need a licence to watch iplayer on a computer.
Paul Miller, Richmond.
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The spokesthing on the radio just now stated as if it were a fact that "a hundred and seventy one million pounds are lost every year through licence evasion".
I may have missed it (you were doing a wonderful job of pinning him down, Eddie, and thank you) but HOW DOES HE KNOW? Given all the people who have written here to say "I don't have a licence because I don't have a telly", can he really have any idea how many people are dodgers and how many are tv-free?
Clearly the people who send out the abusive letters have no idea, so how can he?
And if that is a lot of hooey, why should anyone believe a word he says?
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For a number of years we received increasingly aggressive letters regarding a TV licence , threatening fines, visits and police accompanying officials. We ignored all these as the telephone number supplied was not a free one and no pre-paid envelope was supplied. My view was I do not have a TV, have no interest in one and do not see why I should pay anything, however small, to prove my 'innocence'. These cycles of letters were intermittant and seem to go back to the start sometimes but in general became more threatening.
I did think about replying and saying bring it on, I'll put the kettle on.
Eventually, and apparently randomly, we received a reply envelope. I took the opportunity to reply and complain about the guilty until proved innocent attitude.
The reply basically apologised but added the threat that if I did have a TV then I would be fined and most people who did not have licences lied.
I am actually suprised depite the reaction of many people when they find you do not have a TV (shock, how do you survive, what no Eastenders etc) that many others also do not have a TV.
I actually would have no problem paying a radio licence fee as I do listen to the radio for hours per day. In addition when we purchased a lap top recently the assistant at the till demanded my address details as I was buying a TV. I removed the TV card and the aerial from the box and told them no thanks I am not joining.
The BBC must get this sorted as it will gain them no friends.
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We haven't had a tv licence since before the Great Rochdale tripe riots; but that doesn't stop the snitty letters from arriving. A few years ago, somebody called and asked if he could "have a look?" I granted his request and, gave him the appropriate straight arm salute as he left.
A few weeks later, another snitty letter arrived which went straight in the bin. The most recent was about six weeks ago.
The word "STASI" springs to mind.
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We had a 'Red Letter' last year which said that our premises didnt have a licence. We do! When I enquired why this had happened I was told 'Well your house could be in multiple dccupancy - we have no way of knowing'. So one wonders why they dont try this on everyone!
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My letter from them actually included a DISHONEST statement to the effect that I would end up in front of Magistrates if I didn't buy a license, so I wrote back, just this month, as follows:-
"Attn:- Mr John Robinson, Regional Manager, The Solent Team, TV Licensing Authority Bristol BS98 1TL
BY SPECIAL DELIVERY
Dear Sir
Despite your having been repeatedly informed, both verbally and in writing, that we do not use TV receiving equipment here to watch or record programmes as they are being shown on TV, you have chosen to persist in a course of needless, offensive, inappropriate, harassment. Steps have accordingly been put in place to ensure that all evidence of all such harassment, and your dishonesty , will be recorded/retained for evidence – including; the number, and contents, of each of all your letters, and CCTV to record the number, and manner, of each of your, visits. rings, knocks, and bangs, on our door.
Take notice therefore that should you fail to desist from your said chosen course of offensive behaviour, the following remedial steps will be taken without further notice to you:-
- a complaint of harassment contrary to the appropriate Harassment Act and a prosecution against you will be instigated in the Magistrates Court, whether by the Police, CPS, or privately, which may result in a fine or custodial sentence
and/or
- a Summons against you will be issued in the County Court claiming an unspecified amount of damages in respect of, any/all, needless anxiety, injuries to feelings, distress, inconvenience, worry, time lost, trouble, humiliation, losses, stress, concern, annoyance, paranoia, and invasion of privacy caused by you which you were, or should have been, well aware of.
Should you then persist, notwithstanding, in your chosen course of offensive behaviour/intimidation, or fail to pay any judgment or fine amount, or comply with the strict terms of an injunction, or breach such Court Orders, further applications may, at the sole discretion of the occupant/s, be made to the Court/s possibly leading to seizure of your assets, and/or further fines, injunctions, or custodial sentences.
Take notice further that, notwithstanding the aforementioned, all your said offensive, threatening, correspondence may, without further notice to you, be reported, along with all the response/s to, and consequences of, same, to/on the media – national and/or local, and to the appropriate MP/s.
We trust we have clarified the situation.
Yours faithfully,"
I received a patronising letter of apology, then, just this week, I received a further threatening letter...
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Eddie,
"Why don't you believe them, there not politicians"
Nice one!
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A friend of mine used to run a village post office from a small porch attached to her home. There was barely room for herself and the Post Office touch-screen in there.
She has a telly in the house, duly licensed at the house number.
You've guessed it: she started getting hassled for a TV licence for 'The Post Office' at the same house number.
She doggedly rang and rang and rang and rang, at her own expense, to explain it's THE SAME ADDRESS ... it took, I think, three years to get them to stop.
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I moved into my present place about a year ago, I have no TV. Soon got a letter from TV licencing saying "you don't have a tv licence, please get one, or tell us if you don't have a tv".
I think the percentage of homes in the UK with a tv is something above 90% so it's fair enough that they send reminders to all houses. My first reaction was to contact the TV licencing people to let them know I hadn't got a tv but then I thought - hang on - they've sent me quite an abrupt letter, and I am unhappy on two accounts: first, the assumption of guilty until proven innocent, and second, that I have to spend my money (phone call or letter and stamp) and time, to prove my innocence. So I decided not to respond as a protest, and have since been the recipient of more and more strident letters. Why should I have to spend my money and time proving that I don't have a TV?
The TV licencing would have saved itself money on posting these letters to me if they'd simply sent a polite first letter and offered freepost and free phone options to contact them to let them know I didn't have a tv.
It does seem rather ironic to be receiving these rude 'guilty until proved innocent' letters at the same time as Radio 4 is running a series of programmes about "Britishness" with the great and the good suggesting that to be British is to be polite, accept the belief of innocent until proven guilty, and similar such values not held by the BBC's licencing people...
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Did you know that TV Licensing is part of the BBC; if you complain neither DCMS or Ofcom or Trading standards are interested in your complaint. They throw it back at you like a hot potato. TVL kept on sending me threatening letters when I did not have a tv at a house I own; they then suggested I wasnt licensed at my main address even though I pay by direct debit. I could get no redress and even after selling my other address and telling them so they were still sending me letters. I sold this house in August 2007, I received another letter earlier this year at my new address, 18 months after I sold it. In the end I invited TVL to take me to court if they were so convinced that I had a TV at both addresses. In the end I received a letter from the BBC, who run TV licensing, saying that they were in the right and I was in the wrong but with no apology for the threatening letters. In the end TVL are and think themselves above the law of the land. You cant touch them and they revel in the fact that you cant. They can do what they like and the ordinary citizen can do nothing about it. Hal Johnson, Colyton Devon
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I wish to report harrassment by a local landowner who has put a sign "Trespassers Will Be Prosecuted" on his gate. I had no intention of entering his land so why should I be subjected to this threat every time I pass by?
For goodness' sake, just put the letters in the recycling and don't make such a fuss - Or, if you've got a telly, pay up.
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No a more serious note.
Pity how we get 100% agreement and such depth of feeling coming out of the woodwork over something like the TV licence when major serious social events wouldn't. Hey oh just shows you don't it?
Anyway Is there anyone out there ever not paid and had a tele? And, what do we do about the deliberate evaders. No there not all politicians! Should the poor be exempt?
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I have never paid the TV licence fee in the 38 years that I have been a householder. Whilst I have no TV, I do listen to the radio a lot and I watch a handful of programs a month on iPlayer. I'd be perfectly happy to pay a modest yearly fee for these modest pleasures.
I despise the TV licensing organisation and all its works. I find it offensive to receive letters and telephone calls implying that I am behaving dishonestly. I don't get this from British Waterways asking me why I don't have a rod licence. What gives the BBC the idea that they can behave differently?
The Chairman's argument that they have to pick on people who don't possess a television because the majority of licence fee payers surveyed think they should is specious. I image the a similar survey would show that a majority would support the death penalty - this doesn't mean that the BBC should start hanging people.
Tips for people who do not own a television.
1/ Throw away all communications from the TV licensing authority unread.
2/ If telephoned (politely) refuse to confirm or deny they you possess a television, ask them never to telephone you again and hang up.
3/ If visited by an enforcement officer (nearly always a bailiff). Take their ID card, shut the door and take a note of their details. Give them the card back and (politely) ask them to leave your property immediately. Accept no argument, don't let them try an "caution" you (it's pure theatre). Neither confirm nor deny that you own a television. If they refuse to leave or cause trouble call the police.
You will only have to have any truck with these people if they can persuade a Magistrate to grant a warrant.
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We have 2 properties, one which is being renovated and has been unlivable (no bathroom or kitchen and full of scaffolding) for 2 years now. The second property we live in and for 5 years have had no TV.
The day we moved into our house we received a threatening letter stating that we had no license and would be subject to a visit by a licensing officer. We wrote to them to state we had no TV, and were then visited. The officer searched the house from top to bottom and finally concluded, we had no TV and asked how we could possibly cope - what did we do??? Shaking his head when we pointed to our extensive library and explained we are not home very much (as we both travel extensively for work). We have heard nothing from them for 5 years.
However our other property continues to get threatening letters. I have written in response to the communications 25 times and yet they continue to accuse me of ignoring their letters. I have offered to have them come and inspect the property, but so far they have failed to do so. When I rang I was told they don't respond to written letters and that I had to phone - I explained that as I was on the phone now could they please update their database and was told not until we paid for a license - despite the house being uninhabitable (and in fact uninhabited and without any TV receiving equipment)
I am tired of writing to the authority and I am tired of their abusive and aggressive letters and I am tired of their refusal to update their database and accept that not everyone is interested in the TV. I also think its unacceptable that they refuse to acknowledge written letters.
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I checked the cookery demonstration, as advised, but wasn't too impressed by the already cooked chicken and heaps of white stuff going into the "korma".
Had a curry at a Kashmiri restaurant recently which had used already cooked chicken, too. I'm no chef - although I do cook a lot of Asian food at home. The demonstration doesn't sound like the kind of thing you need 5 years training to master.
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Regarding the TV licence debate, why don't the authorities do what they do here in France? Make the TV licence obligatory by adding it to the equivalent of Council Tax. Anyone who claims they dont have a TV are required to sign a legally-binding document stating that they do not have one. Thereby the authorities only have to check up on those few who claim they don't have a TV?
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Sir Michael uses understatement by saying a bit harsh. I was harassed by the Company who send these letters on behalf of the BBC. This follows advising them a year ago last November by phone to cancel my direct-debit licence payments. At that time I also said that my TV had failed in both sound and vision and as my area was scheduled to go digital the following year I had no immediate intention to renew then or hopefull ever.
I have had at least 12 harassing letters then an unannounced visit by their representative. He questioned me then asked to look around the house. I was happy to give him a total tour of the rooms and he was perfectly polite and departed saying he would see me next year.
Prior to this visit I was so annoyed by the BBC's harassment that I intended to take action against them for harassment as I had provided them with sufficient information when I cancelled my d/d. I did consult a lawyer who had himself had this problem and he informed me the that the Company had no right to demand entry as the BBC seem to think.
It would appear that I will still have visits from the BBC until I buy another TV-fat chance now!
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Thank you, Mr Mair, for not letting Sir Michael Lyons off the hook.
I am puzzled that a person who really ought to know the R4 audience better tried to get away with one evasion after another. He didn't, thanks to you. He even tried to descend to the level of the politicians - I am surely not the only person to have noticed that whenever a politician uses the word clear (as in "we have been very clear about this") the opposite is true.
Thank you.
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I have a TV, however I have neither an aerial connected to it or it tuned in. It is purely for the occasion DVD. Hence I do not have a license.
The license is unfair, simply put. If I don't want to pay for a road license I don't buy a car. But not doing so does not preclude me from owning a bicycle. If I don't wish to pay for a gun license I don't buy a gun, but that does not preclude me from owning a catapult. It I don't want to buy a BBC license then I don't watch BBC, it should therefore not preclude me from watching SKY, ITV, CH4, CH5 etc etc.
I do use BBC services and offered to buy a wireless license, but they do not exist. Radio 4 emanates from my radio most of the time that I am home and iPlayer is used extensively for Parliament, BBC news, radio catch up and documentaries. Again, I do not require a license for this service.
Having received letters for years, many presumptuous, I decided to collect them all up and return them prior to the year end. In total I amassed over 15. Included with the return of the correspondence was a letter stating that I am under no obligation to prove whether I have a TV set or not.
I refuse to succumb to such a display of openly threatening arrogance. In addition I also cited relevant parts of the Malicious Communication Act, in particular those areas relating to abusive and threatening behaviour, or the writing of wording likely to cause stress or anxiety and that further letters would be reported to the police.
As a final act of defiance I withdrew the common law rights of access to my property.
I am not an obtrusive person, but I will not be bullied anymore than I will accept a denigration of my right of presumed innocence until proven guilty.
On a final note if I receive anymore I will start returning them with masses of junk mail, as this is what I consider their mass mailings.
The BBC will lose the license fee at the next application, as the justification for it can not be substantiated with the multitude of media providers in the market.
S Clarke.
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Once again, I don't think some folks understand the law. The license is not for your TV set. The license is for the act of receiving live TV broadcasts (whether on a TV set, mobile or PC).
No one has any right to harass you or threaten to fine you simply for owning a TV, or for using it to watch pre-recorded stuff.
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In the 80s I came back from a holiday near the end of a month that my TV License was to run out. As I used to always renew it at the post office I was unable to as the post office was not open on Sunday which was the day my licensebwould run out. Not to worry thought I as I would renew it on Tuesday as the Monday was a Bank Holiday. Renewed TV License on Tuesday and license ran from the beginning of the month which was Monday.
A week later I recieved a Summons from the BBC to attend Court. I was prosecuted for not having a License for the one day, Monday. I had to pay a fine of one years License fee. I explained to the prosecuter that if I paid and it ran for the full year no one has lost any tax. This did not matter, the fact of NOT having the License on Monday was the CRIME.
Can I have my money back from the BBC plus interest now?
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Dear PM
We've also had a run-in with the TV Licensing Authority over its determination to get us to license a non-existant TV in our next-door property, which was undergoing building work and being joined to our existing property (for which we had a license!). After about a year's worth of increasingly aggressive threats, including court action, and despite several phone calls and letters explaining the situation, I finally sent the TVLA a letter threatening them with a court action for harrassment if they did not stop their threats. This did have the desired effect, manifest in an apologetic letter. Similarly, a friend of ours who does not have a TV has likewise been threatened - and this in a brand new house/address in the N W Highlands, where there never had been a TV! She just ignored the letters. Suffice to say, none of the threats were ever followed up with visits, etc. The Chairman of the BBC Trust was very poor in answering Mr Mair's questions. The problem is that some people would find such correspondence very troubling when they know they are not breaking the law. TV license evaders need to be caught, but there must be better ways than an assumption of blanket guilt. I suspect that part of the problem is that the letters are automatically generated to save costs - i.e. no sensible humans involved!
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Dear offended people.
I have had no TV for about 20 years because that is what I choose. The BBC have hounded on and and off for most of that time, although this has now stopped for about 3 years.
It is very important to remember that TV Licensing is simply a trade mark and the proprieter of the trade mark is the BBC despite the BBC trying to disguise the fact.
It is also the case that the BBC has no right of entry to private premises and that is defined under the Communications Act 2003. Again the BBC implies such a right; in other words as a corporation it attempts to deceive all the time.
The deception is born out of the fact that the BBC charter only refers to licence fee payers and has no obligations at all to the rest of the community.
This is all a bit mad because like previous contributors I would happily pay a licence to listen to the excellent, on the whole, Radio 4.
Thank you Eddie
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I do not like the fact that I pay a licence fee and my neighbours do not. They get letter after letter year after year and they still do not pay.
And I do resent it.
It appears to be a bit of a joke. I do not know whether the letters the BBC sends out explain the reasons for the licence fee, the history of the BBC, its non-commercial nature, etc.
I think television watchers who do not pay are a little bit spoiled. They seem not to have considered the alternative - non-stop interruptions from commercials. It would only get worse in these times of financial crisis.
It is deeply annoying that year after year, month after month, letters get sent out to people in flats adjacent to mine who do watch television and do not pay a licence fee.
Perhaps the letters could be better, explain BBC history better, the purpose the licence fee serves and so on. But if the BBC does not follow up with visits to people's homes, how are they going to make sure that people are paying the fee? And if people shirk that responsibility, the rest of us are paying for them.
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I have counted to seven million, three thousand and forty-two, before commenting. I have collected a large pile of threatening letters, with the eventual aim of incorporating them into an installation. Unfortunately I cannot video in court when I am charged with refusing to watch television under some obscure section of a terrorism act. A man was even sent from around 100 miles away to visit me. He said, "Don't tell me, you have no television." After promising the threatening letters would stop, he left. He was right, the letters stopped for a whole week. I am unashamedly an extremist and apparently highly abnormal: I simply don't want to buy a television. So ...
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We Are not TV users and had bee harassed for many years.
I dared them to send an inspector. After many months this unkemped scruffy little man appeared stating he was from the TV licensing ‘authority’ and asked if he may enter to inspect the property.
I was all in agreement ‘YET’ before I agreed I asked for his ID. It was a card with his photo glued in and a number to call. So, I called the number and asked them if they knew who this individual was and why he was here. They answered correctly, as I suspected so I asked them to verify the name of the signature on the ID, I.E. the supervisor. They got it wrong and asked me to tell them. (GRIN) I kept this guy outside for almost half an hour, due to call waiting and arguments with the operators.
Once I established that the ‘qualifying’ question could not be answered I went to the guy at the door and told him ’Your ID is FAKE and I will ONLY hand it to the police’ … ‘I have no intention of denying you your ID but I will ONLY pass it to a recognised officer of the LAW’.
The guy was not pleased at all, BUT I was in my element, I finally had some say with these scruffy little men.
The police arrived, after about 15 minutes and I handed the ID to them, they complimented my discretion and agreed the ID was decidedly suspect. They contacted the number I had first contacted and confirmed the little man was who he said he was, after having to give HIS details to the police to prove he was who he said he was.
I let the little man in, accompanied by the police, under the agreement that the police where responsible for his conduct whilst in my property. The little man swore he would NEVER come back to my premises and made it quite clear that I was the most arrogant individual he had ever uncounted.
BLISS pure BLISS. I must have this entered in the Guinness book of records because as he stated I was the FIRST to complain about the licence centre inspection.
REALLY?
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the french are more civilised. every year i get a notice requesting that i return the tear-off slip if i do NOT have equipment to receive tv signals at my place in france. i send back the slip telling them i don't. no hassle, no sweat.
btw: i've often wondered why as a single person household i have to pay the same amount for my tv licence as a family of 4 or more earners. it doesn't seem fair. even the council gives me a 25% discount on my council tax!
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In case anyone's still reading - I do have a poetic licence.
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Do people come round to check it, Sid? Noone's ever come round to check my licence to thrill. :(
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SUBJECT:
FASCIST CAPITA’S FASCIST THUGS running ½ a million prosecutions per year in TVL's (NOT and AUTHORITY) PRIVATE courts merrily putting single mums in jail over a stupid TVtax.
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/ron-sinclair-assaulted-by-a-bbc-tellytax-enforcement-goon/3780715227
http://www.tpuc.org/node/143
Ron Sinclair, assaulted by a BBC Tellytax Enforcement Goon – ONE DAVID CLARK, found guilty of assault and bound over to keep the peace for £50, because Ron was filming him after he approached a neighbour to ask about (SPY ON) Ron... nice going BBC.
http://video.aol.com/category/sim3340206349/home-video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=Q4WtgVbXbrc&NR=1
Actual video and other evidence of TVLicensing's serial: lies, crimes, intimidation, harassment, trespass and fabrication of evidence. Privatisation gone wrong is, by definition, fascism (the convergence of STATE and CORPORATE interests). NO? Look it up!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Gentile
NOTE: POSTER "NB51" copied the original (without chapter and verse on the LAWS broken etc. or the various titled inserts - THAT WAS TAKEN DOWN FROM [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator] DUE TO THREATS OF LEGAL ACTION FROM THE: BBC, TVL AND/OR CAPITA!) and has garnered and additional 1,985 Views: MIRRORED! BRILLIANT! XLNT AND WELL DONE! STUFF 'EM!
MORE BBC SCAMS AT:
http://www.youtube.com/user/NB51
AND FINALLY ... SUBJECT:
FASCIST CAPITA’S FASCIST THUGS running ½ a million prosecutions in TVL (NOT and AUTHORITY) PRIVATE courts merrily putting single mums in jail over a stupid TVtax.
THE EUROPEAN UNION IS HITLER'S FASCIST DREAM COME TRUE. Poacher Turns Gamekeeper, While Still a Poacher?
The EU decreed all BRITISH PUBLIC PROPERTY, SERVICES AND INSTITUTIONS MUST BE PRIVATISED!
Hence: Britain's "Financial Services Authority" was quietly PUT TO TENDER meaning PRIVATISED and sold off to become “UK Listings Authority Ltd”.
UK Listings Authority Ltd is staffed by Capita Secretarial Services.
“Treasury Services, a division of CAPITA LTD is paid by the UK government to "advise" the 'FSA' is totally under Capita's CONtrol and Capita - is also a Stock Registrar.
Deutsch Bank ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Bank ), the BANK behind the 3rd Reich and is in direct competition with every British/UK bank, provided the finance for Capita Group.
It is in Capita's and Deutsch Banks best interests to cast doubt on and/or collapse any and all British 'competitors'.
Moreover -the proposition that "UK Listings Authority Ltd", as a LIMITED COMPANY (it and the old, now defunct FSA) should not have any PUBLIC authority - otherwise they are practising fascism; the definition of which is "the convergence of corporate and government interests and powers".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Gentile
Giovanni Gentile - the philosopher of fascism, who 'coined' the term FASCISM / FASCIST!
A Doctrine of Fascism for Benito Mussolini.
MUSSOLILI'S MENTOR! FFS!
Hitler’s dream of a united fascist Europe is here and called the European Union. Go figure.
http://news.independentminds.livejournal.com/1220818.html?thread=5553106#t5553106
FASCIST CAPITA AND ITS TVLICENSING THUGS:
PRESS RELEASE
http://www.pressdispensary.co.uk/releases/c991094.php
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We have a TV licence but still receive threatening letters because the licensing department has a wrong address, obtained from the Royal Mail database. Every year we ring the licensing dept to correct this, and they tell us it's now OK, but the following year it happens again. I now know that this is because every three months they update their address base from the Royal Mail with wrong details, thus overriding the correction we made. Apparently it is our responsibility to correct the Royal Mail database – which has proved virtually impossible.
This year they excelled themselves. I was told that the licence had been returned by the post office as wrongly addressed. But they acknowledged that it had been sent out - so why were they threatening us for not having it...
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Our tv license expires today. On 23rd I attempted to pay on-line. After trying twice with no success I rang the TV Licence tel. no. and was told that there wasn't a fault at their end and to contact my card provider. This I did, at the usual extra expense, and was told that my card was fine and there must be a problem at the Licensing end of things. Sooo, I re-rang Bristol and was told that yes, there WAS a problem with their equipment and the operator took the card no. manually and said payment would go through in a day or two and to expect the license within 10 days. I did indeed get a missive from them, but no license, just a note threatening me with prosecution, fines etc. etc. if I did not pay. I have now sent a cheque with a letter of strong objection to their tone .... but my deadline is midnight - I will sit up and wait for the "Visiting Officers" !! I suppose as there is no alternative they don't need to bother being 'nice' to keep the business.
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My property, previously derelict, was rebuilt, and I moved in, without television, in 2000. Fairly soon, I received a peremptory and brusque demand (a demand, please note, not a polite request) that I I buy a tv licence or face prosecution. As no SAE was supplied, I assumed that the tv licencing authority/bbc were discourteous savages. I therefore decided not to reply, in the hope that the cost of repeated mailings would teach the senders some manners. Well, here we are in 2009, dozens of hectoring and threatening letters later, and the trappings of decency and civilization still seem to be evading the tv licencing authority/bbc. The most recent letter, having reached a positive fury of hysterical threats, definitively promised a visit from an enforcement officer in March. Typically, no sign of anyone yet, and they're leaving it very late. For those many people who actually responded to the tv licencing office without any effect, my sister and neice, who live nearby, also without a television, did respond to the threatening letters and informed the office that there was no tv at their address. This, predictably, had no effect, and the threatening letters continued without any diminution in the flow. So my neice sent them a resealable envelope with some korma sauce in it, including a note that read 'As you keep on sending me your s**t, here is some of mine'.
This worked, and I recommend it to any person suffering from the discourteous and threatening blustering of the bbc.
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So, it seems that my approach to dealing with the TV Licensing Authority over the last 26 years of living where I do -without a tv in all that time (OR ANY EQUIPMENT CAPABLE OF RECEIVING A TV SIGNAL), was the correct one. At least after listening to your Listener 'listener' Matthew Stevens (Stephens?) explaining his own 'experience' re the BBC tv gestapo...that is.
He didn't have a tv either for many years, yet even though he played ball with the 'jack-booted' rabble, he was still 'hounded to a humiliating stand-off'. They simply didn't believe him. They don't believe anybody. (does the Queen have to have one?).
So, what's been my approach over the last 26 years which I'm crowing about? Simple, I just ignore them totally. Never, repeat never, answer any correspondence from them. There is no legal obligation for those in my position, without any way of receiving a tv signal, to answer such enquiry/correspondence.
If they come knocking on your door, as they often threaten to, do just that -as in that described correspondence (with all the vivid red threatening words all over it), simply tell them, as I have on a couple of of occasions, that as you don't have any means in your house of receiving a tv signal -their industry has nothing whatsoever to do with you. They will of course ignore that true statement, so treat them with the same contempt as they treat you, simply excuse yourself, informing them that you have other more pressing matters to deal with, -and close the door. Be prepared for abuse. They can't take the same firm stance that they themselves employ in the course of their 'nationwide search for evaders'.
On one occasion, after I'd closed the door as described above, one of them (they always call in two's), opened my letter-box and shouted through it, (very loudly), 'We'll be back with a warrant and we'll go through your house like a dose of salts!'. Charming people ...the public at large just don't realise what kind of people are employed by the BBC.
They never came back. If you go to the Library and get the big books out on the law in this regard -you'll see that Magistrates don't grant Search Warrants willy nilly. In my case, willy nilly means 'based on me being a human being -and so I must have a tv in my house to 'thrive emotionally'. Assumption, is not grounds for evidence. 'Circumstantial' evidence, is not enough. The Magistrates need to see something concrete .....some technical data from their multi-hitech 'Detector Vans' for instance. Or, a disgruntled neighbour who has made a statement on oath that he/she was in your house watching the tv with you on such and such a day
No, as Eddie said when questioning the Chairman Sir Michael Lyons, we are innocent until proven guilty. We don't have letters coming through our doors asking if we have renewed our gun licence ...because we don't have a gun. And that's that, or at least it should be.
Or, as I said to one of them on one visit they made -circa 1988, 'Listen Lads, I'll tell you why I don't have a tv Licence, for the same reason as I don't have a Pilot's Licence -I don't have an aeroplane'. On that, one of them stepped back from the door, pointed up to the roof and said, 'See, you have an Ariel on your chimney and a wire coming from it down the roof and down the wall and through your bedroom window'. I replied, 'That's been there since I moved in 5 years ago, the people I brought the house off -never bothered to take it with them, and I just cut the wire inside the house when I decorated the bedroom. Then to emphasise my point, I pointed down to a bottle of milk on the step and said, 'Just because I have a bottle of milk on the step it doesn't mean I have a cow in the back garden'. Again, they stormed off threatening to be back -'in force'. They didn't come back. But the letters continued to come through the post more or less every month. I've even had actual Invoices with the full amount 'outstanding' and demanding immediate settlement. They are pathetic. Is this the BBC we love and trust?
Listen, the bottom line here in all this is that they, and by 'they', I mean the likes of 'Sir' Michael Lyons, are being disingenuous in both their methods of 'collecting the Licence Fee' and the explanations given. I'm afraid Eddie did give him -Sir Michael, a good going over, but failed to nail him, missing the obvious flaw in his 'moral argument'. Sir Michael kept dragging Eddie back to the problem of the 'evaders' ...that's those with a tv and no licence. Thus he repeatedly, and cleverly, steered Eddie away from the main bone of contention ....That being us -the 3% of all households that simply don't have or want a television in their homes; and in a 'free society' that should suffice, but instead we get all the abusive victimisation for practising that choice. The next step to being a Police State (at least the 'thought police' state).
What Sir Michael and all his predecessors rely on, as a low cost way of 'filling their coffers', is to rely on the 'historic suppressed nature' of the British people, who have an unhealthy fear of authority and so respond in fear to the heavy handed Gestapo methods, which, although aimed at the guilty, 'trawls-in the innocent' -as the net is cast callously wide. And although those 'innocent fish get thrown back to fight another day, ....'fight another day they must. Expected to act as 'unpaid filing clerks' for an arm of government (quango-ised) that they have no connection with whatsoever. Quote: In order to keep our records up to date. unquote. (a very familiar phrase on the BBC Licence Authorities' Enquiry Form.
Mickey.
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I have been in the same flat for seven years and receive a threatening letter from the BBC every month without fail. The hysteria of the notices have risen in crescendo, I believe the latest threatens deportation to Van Demons Land and 50 lashes. Seven years ago the first letter struck fear and trepidation into me, but then the managing agent of the block laughed and told me to bin it. I do not have a television or a TV Card for my computer. The BBC say they have monitoring equipment in their touring vans which can detect live television transmissions, you would think after 7 years they would have been convinced I do not have a set. I write on the outside of the envelopes – Return to sender- and throw them into the nearest post box.
I am amazed to see how many of us do not have a TV, thought I was the only person in the country without one. Perhaps we should hold an annual seminar to discuss the merits of being without a TV.
Like most of the other contributors to this blog, I would be delighted to pay a subscription for the privilege of listening to Radio 4 and Eddie
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What is it about the phrase 'PUBLIC broadcaster' that the BBC do not understand.
the licence is NOT for any other channel or media it IS for the BBC ALONE, nothing else and WE the PEOPLE own the BBC.
If the BBC wish to produce programs that are unprofitable let the BBC corporation PAY for it. Just as any other BUSINESS would have to do.
If the BBC is no longer owned by we the people WHO sold it? I certainly NEVER gave anyone permission to sell off public property.
If one thinks that NO taxes go to the BBC! THINK AGAIN.
So those that DO pay a licence fee are paying twice, think about it people.
It is time we the people made our case and for once in our long history STUCK to OUR CASE.
PUBLIC BROADCASTER in my book still means something.
All the other channels have to generate income and NOT through licence, or not as much as the BBC, if any at all.
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I was in my early teens when I first questioned the fairness of being forced to pay money to any single television company for the right to watch programmes broadcast by any other.
But, when I left home I became very British: I inherited a irrational fear of 'authority'. I bought a second hand television and a licence - which cost twice as much as the TV.
Within a year or two the TV began to fail and when I moved to another town I didn't bother to replace it.
Threatening letters began arriving within 4 months and, at first, I made a number of calls to explain that I had nothing in my flat capable of receiving television signals. When the threats continued I replied to the letters in writing but still, eventually, found myself at the receiving end of a home invasion by two thoroughly obnoxious, warrant weilding, TV Licensing men - accompanied by two policemen.
The police became very apologetic as soon as they realised that there was indeed nothing in the form of a TV receptor in the flat. The BBC thugs, however, simply became abusive.
Many years later, I won a TV in a charity raffle, but did not go on to buy a TV licence. Could I be one of the 'freeloaders' to whom the arrogant Michael Lyons referred? - As are the inhabitants of Belgium, Holland, Ireland and Northern France etc., who are all able to watch BBC television free of charge. Even my relatives in the USA get BBC channels at no expense!
The benefits, however, are many: I no longer feel bad that more than 50% of my license fee was spent on channels and services that I had to pay for again in order to obtain from cable or satellite companies. [I cannot receive Freeview in my present house - or my previous two homes for that matter!]
I don't even feel so bad when a part-time BBC Radio employee repeatedly abuses a pensioner on air in the name of comedy - and is rewarded with more money each week (from licence payer's money) than I EARN in a year.
And the best thing of all? After fewer than 20 minutes of Internet search time, I discovered a huge number of people who have also stopped paying the BBC blackmail demands - and still stay within the law.
I feel strangely empowered.
I may even stop accepting MP's dictates and extravagances with cowering Britishness.
What a world we could have!
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Mister M, what a world indeed, I would suggest that you give yourself a month without the BBC....
Yes ITV and commercial Radio. That world you can have all to yourself!
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Seems a lot of hysteria from some quarters. I have no licence and certainly have no TV. I did look at the iplayer as friends told me I should not miss this or that programme, but quickly found the prized programmes were unbearably padded out, and soon gave up even on that method of accessing TV. If I visit my mother or son I can witness the inanity of what is on offer and the inanity it seems to induce in others, and do not tell me about the wonders of David or Michael - Watch objectively and apply the standard you would apply to a good play or book or film or piece of music - you will find it wanting. I got the DVD of the last Palin-fest and it required an attention span suitable for a Readers Digest article or a goldfish. Is this the level of the wonders on offer?
Yes, we were visited but they must have accepted our obvious lack of TV and the presence of books and music as we have had no hassle since then.
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I certainly think the tone of the BBC ads is inappropriate. The BBC are essentially mendicants, they should be a little more grateful and not invite us to laugh at students facing fines for not having a licence. The BBC is fond of telling us what to think, including that we are all keen to pay a compulsory subscription for their service. How about a referendum question on that one next election?
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Another 'fun-game' one can play with the 'big-brother-bailiffs', if or when they call -demaning entry, is (after keeping them hanging around outside for as long as possibe while you (1) find your reading glassed in order to check their identity card (2) go and turn off the bath you are running (3) finish dealing with the squirrels in your garden (4) attend to yet another 'phone call ......the list is endless. Then, step outside the front door, making sure you lock it behind you (can't trust the buggers), having ascertained which is their car they've arrived in parked nearby in your street, approach it suspiciously, and demonstratively, check the tax disc to see if it's expired -tell them this if they enquire as to your inspection ..... Then check the tread on the tyres of each wheel, preferably with a proper tyre gauge -(just feeling with the palm of your hand will suffice if you don't have the correct checking equipment). They soon get the message and become outraged that you should even consider them to be 'law-breakers', yet alone the affront to treat them as a joke and so manifesting your complete contempt and mild amusement, with no sense of fear whatsoever. Takes the wind out of their macho sails. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Rise up for humanity.
It's called 'bailiff baiting'.
Oh, and just one other thing ...When they tell you that you could have saved the hassle of a bailiff visit, simply by 'ticking the no-tv box', just ask them why is it that they 'believe the biro' and yet not the voice box? (situated in the throat ...NO! iS THAT LOUD ENOUGH -I DON'T HAVE A TELEVISION OR ANYTHING THAT WILL PICK UP A TELEVISION SIGNAL). The 'Theatre of the Absurd' -at its most absurd.
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I've not had a telly or a TV licence for well over a decade.
About once a year I get polite form letter asking me to confirm that I
still don't need a licence. I reply to this. About ten years ago an
inspector visited my house unannounced and I was happy to show him the
absence of television from my home. As a great fan of BBC radio, I am
quite happy to be subject to these checks. I've never felt hassled or
pursued. I would happily pay the cost of a colour licence for access to
Radio 4 alone. It seems like superb value to me and I'm amazed that
people moan about it.
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Ignoring his failure to answer a straight question, Sir Michael's suggestion that we are under a duty to inform the BBC if we do not have a television had more than a deranged tone about it.
Presumably the next step will be that he will require those who do not have a licence to hold an exemption certificate (or licence) which (also presumably) we will have to buy from the BBC...
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I do not have a television and I am sick of being hounded and threatened as if I am a liar or a criminal. I do not have to prove to the vehicle licensing authority that I do not own a car and I see no reason why I should have to prove to the television licensing authority that I do not own a television set. Last time I checked there was no legal requirement to own one.
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Someone who isn't posting here asked in a mild way why why, when the terms of service of the BBC specifically exclude advertising, they feel that it is ok to advertise for two companies that are not part of the BBC: the licensing one, and the one that publishes the Radio Times (a for-profit paper).
What is the wriggle-out clause for these?
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C_G 97, We get the TV Times.
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You used to have to have a licence to own a refrigerator in Italy. We do not have, or have ever had, a refrigerator, for the benefit of the Italian authorities. Nor does C_G, I imagine.
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Just to make it clear to those of you who are making odd noises, you need a licence to watch any TV.
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memorite 49, If your DVD player is also a TV receiver, you need a licence.
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HG 25, But they do take your name and address when you buy a TV. Don't you think they would be a bit suspicious if you had an aerial or dish on your house? Yeah, I know, it was there when you bought the house. And you only the TV to watch tapes or DVDs. You bet.
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David_McNickle re 101 comment.
NO you do NOT require a licence to own a TV or ANY equipment that is capable of receiving a broadcast.
One ONLY requires a licence if the receiving equipment is being used to receive the transmissions.
Owning a video or a DVD player is not illegal without a licence.
HOWEVER if one tunes the receiving equipment in to receive transmissions then one requires a licence.
Education as to ones rights is imperative here. Spreading nonsense is intellectual suicide.
Watching a BBC commercially recorded broadcast and sold in shops is NOT ILLEGAL, for that matter – neither is ITV – SKY or any other broadcaster on DVD or video using equipment that is capable of receiving a transmission it is NOT ILLEGAL and requires NO licence.
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N 103, Pedant. I have an old car up on blocks that needs no licence or MOT because I don't drive it.
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Gah! navigating on the new Blog is like swimming in the fog!
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