There is so much death around.
David Cameron and his family are in mourning. BBC News coverage of the death of their son, Ivan is here. Gordon Brown has just issued a statement saying: "Sarah and I were very saddened to hear of the death of Ivan and we have sent our condolences to David and Samantha. The death of a child is a loss no parent should have to bear. I know Ivan was a child who brought joy to all those who knew him and his was a life surrounded by love. The thoughts and prayers of the whole country are with David, Samantha and their family."
Jade Goody is reportedly worried about how to tell her own children about her own death. "I want them to see me before I get too poorly" she is quoted as saying.
It's sad almost beyond words.
How do you tell children about death? What can be said?
1025 UPDATE: Just seen this Daily Mirror article in which Jade Goody discusses a book about dying. The same paper hears from a childcare and parenting author, Heather Welford.
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Thank you for this thread, Eddie. It is very sad to hear of Mr. and Mrs. Cameron's sudden loss - Ivan seemed such a happy child and the family clearly adored him.
I remember the first sight I had of Mr. Cameron was on Question Time a few years back, when he spoke of Ivan in the context of his gratitude to the NHS. I was struck then by his evident love for his child, and his passion about the issue of disability. While I'm of a different political persuasion, I did warm to Mr. Cameron as a result, and it gave me an insight into the terrible grief that the family must now be experiencing.
Mr. and Mrs. Brown have certainly had their share of grief at the loss of a child and at the vicissitudes of children with health problems. It is odd to think that these two opponents will have a great deal to share.
As a teacher, I lost pupils to cancer and leukaemia. It was devastating, and since I was quite close to their parents, I found it very hard to know what to do in the face of their grief. I also have friends whose children have died very young. It is dreadful. On the other hand, I also had students who lost a parent (it was usually a mother) to cancer or in an accident. How do you comfort them? - Well, with difficulty, and unending patience and understanding.
My condolences to Mr. Cameron and his family.
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What a difficult question - what do you say to a child about death? I suppose my answer would be to be honest about it, resist the temptation to fall back on platitudes I don't believe and provide, as BS said, unending patience and undestanding.
To the Camerons I of course my sympathy.
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One of the saddest, and yet at the same time most uplifting stories I ever heard about death came from a former colleague. His Father died at a ripe old age, and although my colleague didn't have children of his own at that time, he did have two young nephews. As is often the case they were the apple of their Grandfather's eye; he adored them, they adored him. His Brother decided to be very straightforward about telling his boys that Grandpa had died. They were sad, even if they possibly were still too young to fully understand, but they coped very well. He then asked them whether they wanted to go to the funeral. He explained that it would be both a sad and a happy occasion. Sad because Grandpa had gone and everyone missed him, but happy because everyone would be sharing wonderful memories of him. The boys had a quick discussion and the eldest simply said: "When he came to visit us, we always waved him goodbye. We'll wave him goodbye again."
Loss of a loved one can be very difficult, and it affects different people in different ways. So, I don't think there's a right way or a wrong way, you just have to do what you think is best based on what you know about the people concerned.
In the two examples in this thread I am genuinely sad for all concerned. Irrespective of politics, position in life or personality, I am sorry for them. I'm glad to hear that Prime Minister's Questions has been cancelled as a mark of respect. I just wish there was more of this sort of co-operation between parties, and less of the "punch and judy" Mr Cameron first talked about when he became leader. For Ms Goody, whatever my opinions of how she came to fame - and the trends in society that fuelled that - I'm sorry a young life is to be cut so short. Alas it is a reality for poor people all around the World, not just reality TV stars.
My condolences to all.
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I was incredibly saddened to hear of the Camerons' loss - my own son is also 6 years old. I read both the BBC website coverage of their loss and the Daily Mirror linked article on Jade Goody through a mist of tears in my eyes. I cannot even bear to think for one second that I may not be around to see my children grow up, nor imagine the pain of losing a child......the mere thought always reduces me to tears. I would like to pass on my condolences to the Camerons and their family......I hope the happy memories of Ivan can help a little in their grieving process. As for Jade, I think she is handling the way that she is telling her children with incredible strength and maturity. To imagine having to say goodbye to your children for the last time is too heartbreaking for words.
I can't even write this post without tears! My heart goes out to all....
Fi x
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Quote: It's sad almost beyond words.: Unquote
Ennio Morricone. The Mission.
Feeling a wee bit stunned by this sad news - I just did a tour of other BBC blog sites and one poster on Nick Robinson's Newslog - well I just wished he/she had read those words. Eddie. And abided by them.
My thoughts are with the Cameron family today.
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Dutch media currently report at least 9 people killed, 25 severely injured and 60 with minor injuries. Press conference in 15 minutes.
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Also offer condolences to the Cameron family. Nothing sadder than the death of a child.
A friend of mine in Australia has just lost her 18 year old son in a shooting accident on Sunday. Such a lovely family. It seems so terribly unfair that ghastly things happen to good people.
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I've just had the "fluffy blanket" conversation with a gentleman whose life partner has just been started on a syringe driver. I let another colleague who is involved with the care know that it looks like the end is imminent and the discussion came round to preparedness. We're prepared for births (usually) and weddings but often not for death which is the one certainty we face.
I used to shy away from these conversations as I felt I had nothing to add. The gentleman this morning thanked me - that actually makes me feel worse. They are a wonderful couple and we had a really enjoyable conversation last week about life, love and family.
My condolences to anyone who has lost a loved and cherished one.
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It must be the worst thing in the world to lose your child. At any age.
Condolences to the Camerons.
Molly
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'I had not thought death had undone so many'
How do you tell anyone about death?
A life that would have been.
I'm sorry, I find this all a bit tasteless, well meant though the posts are.
Next we'll have a thread form Nigel Wrench on Hirst's shark.
I see why two minutes silence is the mark of respect.
Children's inherent tastlessness and their life affirming robustness used to carry them through.
Grief has a sense of timing of its own. Counselling there and then can be help at the wrong time. When grief comes, then missing someone is to lose the whole world.
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All loss is difficult, but a child's death seems particularly poignant. My sympathies to the Cameron family, and to all other families who have lost children in this or any other way.
I admire Gordon Brown's poise at the dispatch box this morning. With the history of losing a child so young, I couldn't have made that speech without my voice breaking.
A reminder to us all that there are far more important things than celebrity, money, politics and status.
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Second that, Perky (11).
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It may be sad for Mr and Mrs Cameron but there other people in the world and life goes on. I see no reason why Prime minister's questions could not have gone on as normal with, say, Hague standing in for Cameron. As for the seeming never ending media guff about this it is truly sickening, perhaps that might be explained to children; how the media love to pry.
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In both these cases, what strikes me is the added burden of dealing with one's grief in the public eye. I suppose a public role is what both Jade and Cameron have sought - but the grief they never anticipated nor wanted.
It is so hard to imagine how Cameron can get up and carry on his job after such a blow. But I expect he will, and much as I disagree with his politics, I admire him for it. But I hope he gives himself a proper amount of time before resuming the fight.
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Looking back as a child who lost two cousins 2 and 3 years and a grandmother to leukaemia; another grandmother I saw once; two grandfathers in hospital; a 10 year old neighbour who went under a bus; and many more before I was 12; my sister when I was 16 years, and all this whilst people called me by my Christian name of Di countless times a day, whilst being expected to do well at school and be cheerful and join in with the fun there!
I wish someone could have said to me then, something like "God found out that something far worse was going to happen to them in their life, and wanted them back to give them a much better happier one so they are OK now. Say good prayers for them".
My sincere condolences to David Cameron and family, it is so difficult to face each day, but with utmost faith in a future to come in this or another universe, by Our Creator, The Father of All, who always knows us best, we always are comforted with love and hope.
Remember the good times and not the bad and say a 'thank you' that you had them at all, be it only for a while.
God Bless.
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Sad times.
I can't even begin to imagine how terrible it is to lose a child. I hope the press give them the privacy they've asked them to respect.
Conversely, Jade has chosen to share her tragedy openly and I admire her for opening up a whole raft of difficulty which we often shy away from discussing. Her children are so young to try and understand what is happening to them. I hope that others will keep their mother's spirit alive in their lives as they grow up.
I was 18 when my Dad died but one thing I experienced was the difficulty of others in knowing what to say to me.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Betty @15 - perhaps the Camerons share a faith in your god, perhaps not. But if you were to offer me such a godly justification for unbearable grief and suffering in such circumstances, I would not respond well. At all. What a strange, perverse and unpredictable deity in which you believe.
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John 14: 1 Let not your heart be troubled; ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, ye may be also.
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Bites tongue...
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Eddie Mair:
It is very sad that many people have been dying recently...
(**//**)
Also, I would like to extend my heartfelt condolences and prayers to the Cameron family regarding the death of Ivan....
~Dennis Junior~
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Leaves tongue alone and complains instead.
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Fifi22, Do and you will get your message deleted.
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Isn't it a contravention of House Rules to threaten?
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Wouldn't worry me too much, David (23) but thanks for the advice.
I mean ... it's just a blog!
;o)
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Big Sis - That's not the real David McNickle - it must be someone using his name.
The real one left the blog for good a couple of days ago. Stormed off in high dudgeon.
(Can you do anything in low dudgeon?)
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Fifi - perhaps you should change your name to Trollbegone.
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Oh! is impersonating David_McNickle?
Splendid, he so brightens my day. He is like a little ray of sunshine with his cheery smile and good humour. He is a credit to his fellow countrymen.
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Ah, I'm not so sure, TIH (26) DMcN keeps threatening every other day to leave this blog, but he keeps re-appearing. Not a man of his word, it would seem....
DMcN It's not up to you to decide whose comments stay or go. It's up to the mods who judge each case against the House Rules. If your posting has been removed, then you broke the rules. It can't be clearer than that...
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FF @ 29, The trouble is that because it's the far-too-much-written code and the Pirhana brothers ^W^Wmoderators don't tell you which bit of it they have decided you have broken, you never find out what you did.
Then you have to go round there on Saturdays so they can nail your navel to a coffee-table.
Well may you wander around shouting "Dinsdale!"
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...and now Wendy Richard has died. The cancer got her in the end.
Do other people question, as I do, this verbal convention we seem to have adopted of 'battling' or 'fighting' cancer?
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I like to think of Miss Brahms returning to Grace Brothers.
She always made me smile.
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Fifi - I agree with you on the lazy terminology. If I ever develop cancer, I'm really hoping I won't be expected to fight or battle or bear it bravely or any of the other journalistic cliches we have to endure. I expect I will endure it miserably until I can bear it no longer. And at that point, I hope someone will give me an easy way out.
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Fifi 31
"Do other people question, as I do, this verbal convention we seem to have adopted of 'battling' or 'fighting' cancer"
Eddie interviewed "our" so-called "Cancer-Tsar" Prof. Karol Sikora a couple of weeks or so ago, and the point you make was raised.
I understood the Prof. to say that although in many ways, it's counter-intuitive, there was no medical evidence to support the idea that those cancer patients who adopted various "fighting" techniques ("mental" fisty-cuffs etc) fared any better in the outcome of their treatment/s than those who didn't.
As a patient, try to keep positive, turn-up for treatments, live for the day and (within reason) do what you want to, was the message I took away from that discussion.
Big Sis 32
I was thinking exactly the same as you as I heard the news of her death.
Wendy Richards was always good value. During the past months some great actors/entertainers have passed-over. Should be some good shows to look forward to...
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Fifi @ 31, yeah, it is strange. In the same way that any child reported in the papers as having died of an illness or condition was always 'brave'. I'd settle for 'strive' rather than 'fight' or 'battle' against cancer (or any other disease or disabling condition) as being far more like what I'd want to do, because that would carry the idea that I was trying to do my best *about* it rather than *against* it. Sort of like not letting sciatica stop me from doing everything I wanted except rush about being phsically active: not 'battling against it' but 'working around it'.
RachelG, yes, I agree.
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eeek! What happened to post #34?
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C_G 34
What d'you mean, "What happened..."?
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My pal Bob managed to dodge his cancer for four years, after initial prognosis of 6 months to 2 years. He delighted in confounding the experts' expectations - and in fairness, the experts were always delighted to be wrong.
Bob didn't lose a battle though. He died.
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FF 38
Cancer's a VERY puzzling disease.
And some people who are stricken by it have added more to the puzzle yet, may be clues in themselves as to how a "cure" for some types of the disease will be found:
http://www.forbes.com/global/2009/0302/030_why_some_survive.html
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U10780386 @ 37, when I posted, I could see posts up to #33, but when mine appeared it was #35 not #34, and still is on this browser. #34 was and is your one, and it wasn't there so the numbers jumped 33->35.
I do hope you weren't actively trying to drive me insane when you posted 'C_G 34, What d'you mean, "What happened..."?' :-)
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Chris (40) ... too late!
;oD
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Fifi 41
...you've said it all...
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Fifi @ 41, tut!
I am independent
You are eccentric
S/he is insane
is how that verb goes.
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;oD
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