Gordon Brown is a "one-eyed Scottish idiot"....according to Jeremy Clarkson.
You can hear the comments as part of the BBC News coverage here. The Guardian reports it like this, and the Daily Mail here. The Australian tells it like this.
Mr Clarkson has been the subject of debate here on the blog before: click here for that.
What do YOU think?
1450 UPDATE: "Jeremy Clarkson has asked BBC Worldwide to issue the following statement on his behalf:
"In the heat of the moment I made a remark about the Prime Minister's personal appearance for which, upon reflection, I apologise.""
BBC response to that: "we note that Jeremy's made an apology for the comments he made about the Prime Minister"
The BBC added it will not be taking further action.
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Never mind that. Here's an update from the Morris Dance stuff from a few weeks back
http://www.morrismovie.com/
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One-eyed-Scottish-idiot-gate
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Silly man.
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Following Mr. Clarkson's Scottish Prime Minister comments, perhaps he could now broadcast via the BBC his opinions on Scottish Golliwogs?
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Fair dinkum, Jezza!
Speaking as a Scot, I am not in the least offended.
President Dubya endured abuse for years; indeed he remarked that he was proud to live in a land where people were free to express their views.
Politicians are fair game. Particularly those who were not elected to their position.
Jeremy Clarkson is outrageous and offensive, and I love him for it!
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Mr Clarkson attracts his audience, in part, by making controversial remarks. He's well-paid so clearly doing what his "employers" and by association, his various audiences require.
Giving his "brand" of nonsense, media exposure just adds, in my opinion, to his future earning power.
Having said that, it appears in this instance Mr Clarkson, despite his un-called for rudeness, is exercising his right to free-speech. A "right" that's disappearing far too quickly for my taste.
In this instance, Mr Brown's more than capable of replying and defending himself. Should he feel it necessary to do so...
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Personally, I feel Mister Clarkson has made an egregious error with this vile calumny.
The National Society of Village Idiots are up in arms, and demanding a public apology...
D
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Jeremy is an outspoken idiot and whoever thought he would be any different must have had a blonde moment. (is this non PC)? People should learn to take anything he says with a pinch of salt and get on with things.
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Will you also be castigating him for telling fibs when he suggested that Hamster Hammond would be 'killed several times in each show' ?
This has shades of the overblown tosh about Anne Robinson being referred to the Commission for Racial Equality for being a little disobliging about us Welshies.
Or the press going after Janet Street-Porter in a similar way when she is half-welsh herself...
Just as well there was that incident on Breakfast Time this morning featuring the lightning conductor behaviour of Christian Bale, or Mr Clarkson might be out of a job in the new 'Lives of Others' BBC...
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Scottish politicians say they are offended, presumably by Brown being outed as a Scot.
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Well, the one-eyed thing was a bit cruel, but as for the idiot part, it's a matter of free speech. I happen to agree with him on that one.
We are in danger of becoming an oppressive nation where no-one dare speak their mind for fear of offending someone, or losing their job, or being pilloried by all and sundry.
I'm not a big fan of Jeremy, but he has the right to say what he thinks, as he has done for many years.
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What an oaf!
Nice hair,though.......:-0
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How can you let Jeremy Clarkson get away with it? If I were a one-eyed Scotsman, a liar and an idiot, I would feel insulted being compared with Gord the unelected.
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Yes indeed, and we didn't vote for him to be PM!
Anyone interested jumping on this bandwagon?
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Well, in all fairness, Mr. Clarkson is quite simply stating the facts. Gordon Brown is Scottish is he not? He does only have one (working) eye. Whether or not he is an idiot may be debatable by some, but as far as opinions go, calling someone an idiot hardly compares to the Ross and Brand extravaganza (a comparison reported in the Guardian) of last year where all manner of abusive words were used. For Jeremy in fact, I think this comment was fairly well restrained. In terms of comparing this to comments allegedly made by Carol Thatcher this week - it just isn't the same thing, unless your basis for comparison is that they were both speaking.
Additionally, please don't sack Jeremy because after several months without either Jonathan Ross or Russell Brand, I am fast running out of BBC presenters that I actually watch and listen to. Those remaining are Eddie (of course), Chris Moyles, and Jeremy; obnoxious and arrogant as he is, he is quite entertaining.
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Will Jeremy Clarkson be joining Carol Thatcher at the Job Centre, or is it yet again double standards for the BBC. I doubt it. Let's hope he apologises properly, that is in the BBC's "own words."
Keep up the good work BBC, there is no prejudice with you, is there?
I suppose Jeremy is lucky he is not related to the Thatchers.
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Oh the irony of it? One of the few times that Jezza is 100% politically ‘Correct’ and he gets slated for it!
Gordon Brown is Scottish? Correct.
Gordon Brown has one usable eye? Correct.
Gordon Brown stood at the despatch box and told us he had saved the world? Correct.
Gordon Brown repeatedly tells us he has the answers to the economic crisis? Correct.
Gordon Brown is an idiot?
Well OK, this one is open to debate, but as my username suggests, I am also disabled, I was not offended by Jezza’s remarks, although being patronised by the “Does he take sugar” brigade these overly sensitive Scottish MPs appear to represent offends this particular brain-damaged invalid immensely!
I have the opportunity to ‘Vote’ for Mr. Clarkson every time that the BBC air Top Gear, if I don’t want to see, hear or be offended by the programme, or any of its content or presenters, then I simply vote with my remote. Unfortunately, Mr. Brown, and the incompetents left over from the Government I voted into power in 1997, refuse to allow me the same privilege via the ballot box.
Perhaps the debate on the mental competence of the Prime Minister, or even public opinion of his views over Jezza’s could be tested in this manner, hopefully sometime very soon?
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jessa is always saying what he thinks and lots of us agree with him but he is not intending to be hurtfull to anyone and when the media make a fuss it just makes it funier
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8. At 2:11pm on 06 Feb 2009, bea238 wrote:
'Jeremy is an outspoken idiot and whoever thought he would be any different must have had a blonde moment. (is this non PC)? People should learn to take anything he says with a pinch of salt and get on with things.'
As a blond I'm sick and tired ...
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I think we may be in the vanguard of a politically incorrect rebellion : first Prince Harry, then Prince Charles, Carol Thatcher and now Jeremy Clarkson. I'm probably forgetting one or two others. We are sick of all these rules and regulations about everything we do and say - pandering to a very voluble minority.
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The Americans have Barack Obama, Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Stevie Wonder - We have Gordon Brown, no cash, no hope and no bleeding wonder -
Mr Clarkson is known for being outspoken - that is what makes him so entertaining. His remark was mild compared to those you would hear in any public house in the UK. And he apologised so what is the fuss about?
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How long before there's a UK Press call for President Sarkozy to resign..?
"Downing Street's fury after Sarkozy attacks Gordon Brown's economic 'mistakes'"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1137623/Downing-Streets-fury-Sarkozy-attacks-Gordon-Browns-economic-mistakes.html
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Surely, the public and commentators expressing opinions about politicians - for or against - is part and parcel of political life, however forthright the opinion and colourful the language may be. Blair and Thatcher (M) still get plenty of flack, and they're out of office.
The Scottish part was unnecessary; nationality/ethnicity shouldn't come in to it, as was the part about being 'one-eyed', it’s personalising the debate by drawing attention to something that happened to Brown by accident.
Clarkson has a 'man in the street' persona he carefully maintains (Tebbit did the same in the 1980s) and he knows how to play to his audience.
But criticism in general and opinions about politicians is only to be expected, and TV presenters are as entitled to their opinions as the rest of us. Clarkson doesn't report for the news, he just presents a 'lads and their cars' show.
Like the rest of us, politicians learn to develop a thick skin.
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Thank goodness Jeremy didn't go as far as apologising for calling Brown "a Scottish idiot, who keeps telling us everything's fine and he's saved the world and we know he's lying, but he's smooth at telling us".
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What happened to free speech in this country?
If Clarkson wants to call Brown a One-eyed Scottish Idiot, then so be it. Is there anything false in that statement?
Let's see:
One-eyed - check.
Scottish - check.
Idiot - check (and even Sarkozy agrees with that one!).
It's lefty-pc nonsense at its worst.
Why not get Chami Chakrabati, the nation's self appointed do-gooder and all-round busy body, in to explain why we're all so horrid and how we can never "grow" together unless we change our ways. That was good for a laugh on Question Time last night.
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Thank goodness one of the "TB" Brigade didn't find this young Lady...
"Weather casualty: Abandoned badger cub saved from freezing temperatures by wildlife-lover"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1136887/Weather-casualty-Abandoned-badger-cub-saved-freezing-temperatures-wildlife-lover.html
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I would like to express my disgust regarding Jeremy Clark’s latest spiteful and boorish comment about the Prime Minister.
Endless analysis in the media of the meaning of words like ‘Paki’ or ‘golliwog’ is mostly wasted effort. What’s important is the intention. His intention is to be hurtful. In his view ‘one-eyed’ and ‘Scottish’ is as derogative terms as ‘idiot’ In this case, I think it’s clear that, Clark's remarks betray an arrogance and nasty spirit that ill-befits a broadcaster. I hope he is made to pay for his bigoted attitudes.
Ken Chisholm
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BBC Boss Editor: We haven't the resources to keep hunting down real News any more. Thoughts?
BBC Pen Pusher: How about only covering our own BBC stories, about the BBC? Then we need never leave the building and save a fortune on cab fares.
BBC Boss Editor: Brilliant! But hang on... we don't have the resources to make up News either. Disaster!
BBC Pen Pusher: No worries. We'll keep an eye on anyone vaguely entertaining, wait till they say something, then demand an immediate apology.
BBC Boss Editor: But that's ... brilliant! If we sack enough of them, we'll save a fortune in salaries and the licence payer will be delighted. You really are brilliant, you know.
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BBC Bean Counter: We need a spreadsheet to do this properly.
BBC Pen Pusher: What's a spread sheet?
BBC Boss Editor: Brilliant, Mr Counter! Let's make a list of everyone who ever says anything remotely entertaining.
BBC Pen Pusher: Oh, lists - I get it. Jonathan... no, Russell... no, Jeremy... er, haven't we used them already?
BBC Boss Editor: Dash it you're right Mr Pusher! We'll have to think laterally.
BBC Bean Counter: I have an idea. . .
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top gear is the best program on tv
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BBC Boss Editor: Out with it, man! You've been right on the money so far.
BBC Bean Counter: Why don't we keep an eye on people who never say anything entertaining in front of the camera, or near a microphone ... ply them with cheap chardonnay in the green room after the show ... and then be offended at something they can't even remember saying.
BBC Boss Editor: That is .. beyond brilliant! Why can't 'you' think of things like that, Mr Pusher?
BBC Pen Pusher: It should ideally be after a shallow programme that the public doesn't watch (or can't remember watching) and be said by someone nobody really likes that much. Who comes to mind...?
BBC Boss Editor: That sounds like a description of anyone who's ever appeared on the One Sh.... oh, extra-brilliant! Well done Mr Pusher.
(continued on page 144)
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How much more crap are we going to get from overpaid ex public school boys masquerading as entertainers ? If ever proof was needed of the BBC being dumbed down then Clarkson is it. A typical school bully.
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Looks like you'll need to post a few snappy bon mots to become a trusty...
Slainte!
ed
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iC@34
Why are you insulting Gollywogs..?
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I think he's a One Eyed One Horned Flying Purple People Eater
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9H_cI_WCnE
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Hi, all.
Clearly, Jezza can say what he likes as long as it is not obviously untrue.
This board has defended his right so to do.
It's the bull which was posted by the Gordonistas which sticks in my throat -
"Most people are proud that GB is a Scot and our leader" or words to that effect.
The opinion polls clearly contradict such an assertion. Right now, somewhere around two thirds of the UK population are not of that view.
I have nothing against Scots per se, I just disagree with GB's policies and the garbage produced in support of the unsupportable.
Jezza will probably be entertaining the public when GB is put out to grass or on the public-speaking circuit.
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He got off very lightly I thought if you asked the general public their thoughts of our World Saving, End of Boom and Bust, British Jobs for British Workers PM Brown, I rather feel he might have heard a lot worse!
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Reading the comments on this blog and those on The Guardian website on the same subject, I'm beginning to feel that I am the only person who finds the attention seeking behaviour of certain arrogant television presenters deeply depressing.
Does "freedom of speech" really mean that is is alright to go abroad and insult your own country's leader in front of the press? And the same comment is then repeated ad nauseam on every news outlet.
Still I suppose it's good publicity for Jeremy Clarkson and the BBC.
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..banish him to the cold wet depths of the Cotswolds I say!
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l@40
"Does "freedom of speech" really mean that is is alright to go abroad and insult your own country's leader in front of the press? And the same comment is then repeated ad nauseam on every news outlet."
Yes.
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Couldn't give a stuff. Lots of love, Cyclops
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Clarkson is of course an arrogant bigot. I expect no less from him. I'm not a particular admirer of 'New Labour' or Mr Brown, but as a disabled person I feel that if no sanction is taken against Clarkson it will help to reinforce the idea with some that disabled people are fair game as objects of fun.
There are many people who seem to think that if anyone has a physical disability, they are also 'mentally challenged', e.g. they are an idiot!
P.S. Gordon Brown has more intelligence than Clarkson could ever aspire to!
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26. At 3:52pm on 06 Feb 2009, Charlie wrote:
Thank goodness one of the "TB" Brigade didn't find this young Lady...
"Weather casualty: Abandoned badger cub saved from freezing temperatures by wildlife-lover"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1136887/Weather-casualty-Abandoned-badger-cub-saved-freezing-temperatures-wildlife-lover.html
That's one cute baby.
Parents were probably killed by a 'farmer' ie. a meat producer, under the impression they 'threaten his cattle' when actually badgers are the victims of meat producers' dirty habits and lack of real care. Can't see why the little one would be outside the sett unless the parents had failed to return.
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I think he just about hit the nail on the head. I would like to see the day when Scotland becomes a completely autonomous nation and ceases to exert any influence over any other parts of the UK. That, like deep-fried body parts, is pretty much what they all want, isn't it?
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It's official. The media have never experienced snow before.
Only possible explanation why they are behaving in such an odd, excited manner over a few feet of snow. Reporters all over the country, close scrutiny of piles of gravel, serious, gravitascious voices [ok I made that word up] grim faces, and the doom-laden words 'more snow on the way'.
But are any of them asking what the effect will be on the environment of all these thousands of tonnes of salt being dumped without a thought? Nope.
All that must be considered is keeping the traffic moving. A few months down the line and someone notices die off of several species in streams and rivers... saline soils beside roads etc. THEN they'll find they have another story, and be saying 'no one could have foreseen this' in their usual myopic manner.
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I'm not fooled! This is all a ruse to enable the BBC to repeat "Gordon Brown is a one eyed, Scottish idiot" again and again and again...
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Clarkson is a boy racer, which, in a man in his forties, is rather pathetic. Brown's blindness in one eye is not a fir subject for Clarkson's juvenile laddish 'humour'. And all his defenders say 'you have to expect this from ole Clarkson, he's dangerous!' yeah, like Russel Brand, another Peter Pan finding it difficult to move into the adult mindset.
Odious as I find Brown, I would never think of calling him one-eyed, there are enough insults available without scraping the barrel.
But, yet another overpaid, ego-driven male, different set of goalposts. If Carol Thatcher had made the remark to Adrian Chiles, we'd be having a different conversation. Yes?
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Happyhomeworker
"We are in danger of becoming an oppressive nation where no-one dare speak their mind for fear of offending someone, or losing their job, or being pilloried by all and sundry."
Too late - it's obviously already happened.
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"Ladies underwear are my favourite"
Christopher (not so) Bland
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Re: the Jeremy Clarkson comment: will people please get a life.
Though let's look:
Brown is Scottish: Check
Brown has one eye: Check
Brown is an idiot: *cough*
Also, Clarkson seems to be the whipping boy for any comment he makes and the BBC seem to revel in telling everyone about his antics.
Should people make fun of physical disabilities? Probably not but then again the sheer anger at Brown's part in bringing this country in a recession is the sort of thing that makes people vent at those person in...a slightly unfair personal manner.
I am sure the view of many people of Brown wouldn't get past the moderators on this site.
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Good old BBC.
Thanks for publishing Jeremy's comments, if you hadn't I would never have heard them nor would millions of others.
(I am a JC fan)
I agree Lady-Sue. I complained to the BBC yesterday about the continued use of the G word. They did not fool me -it was just an excuse to keep using it.
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Lady Sue (48),
Too right! And I love it!
But, as noted above, Scots, idiots, and Cyclopeans have every right to be offended.
Wha' an eeejit!
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It is racist apart from insulting to a handicap Surely?
Just one step away from "Paki idiot" "Indian idiot" "African idiot " "French idiot"
Would any of the above have not merited a comment from Pm re racism?
I noticed racism as an issue was not mentioned - strange that!
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Hands up if you've got two eyes.
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I have found the one thing, apart from various obnoxious MP's, to make me turn off PM...the incessant reporting of snow. I have found some interesting Freeview TV programmes on during the PM slot...PM beware you will be losing a listener if you can't get a sense of perspective on news stories.
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Do you notice how much of the fuss in these cases is kicked up by busybodies who are offended on behalf of other people?
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The BBC's suicide mission continues unabated. Manufacturing stories based on flippant remarks from celebs does not make a very good news agenda; get over yourselves. Can I just point out that Jeremy Clarkson said the GB is a "one eye'd Scottish Idiot". I know I don't need to point it out, but I just wanted to get it into print once more to help out the search engines of the future. I assume once this non-story dies down, if another one doesn't appear in 24 hours the entire BBC staff will have to resort to self flagellation and poking each other with hot needles as punishment for merely existing. this is BBC management policy now, isn't it?
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I was nearly sick when listening to people bleating about how 'offensive' these remarks were to people with sight problems. I only see out of one eye myself, and think Clarkson's remark pretty funny. Are we really so pathetic and over-sensitive these days? If we are, we should be ashamed. It is utterly pathetic and deeply tiresome that any time any kind of emotionally challenging issue is covered on the BBC these days, be it a factual programme or fiction, we are reminded that if we have been in any way affected by the programme, we can phone a hotline and have someone sympathise with us. How utterly infantile. I begin to be ashamed of this lilly livered, whining country.
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Why should he apologis a large part of the population agree with him. At least he didn't F and Blind like many of those on so-called BBC comedy programs.
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As with a previous post, the more this comment is repeated, the more it might sink in. The man is Scottish, he does have only one eye which he informed the electorate about a couple of years ago, I believe in some sort of spin about the NHS, and yes he is an idiot. Yes, just heard it again. Well done Jeremy.
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I apologise for the BBC using our money to hire a lot of overpaid morons.
Has Russell Brand apologised for calling Bush a 'retarded cowboy'? Oh, I forgot, he no longer works for the BBC, so he doesn't count.
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I just heard "Clarkson apologised for commenting on the PM's appearance. (full stop)"
Bravo!
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I have seen Mr Clarkson on TV a couple of times - that was enough for me.
He can say anything he likes about me, or anyone else for that matter, and I won't take offence; what someone like him says about anything is of no consequence whatsoever.
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Jeremy Clarkson doesn't deserve the attention he gets.
He has made a career out of being 'clever' and it seems that there are many people who respond to that.
He was simply being unkind. Callousness is really not funny.
He thought he would get away with it because Gordon Brown is a politician but he is still a human being and has done well despite having a disability. Mocking anyone for the disabilty they have is a sign of deep ignorance.
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This is ridiculous,
I am a two eyed naturalised Scot, from English , Welsh and Scandinavian roots, with two eyes, legs arms and one nose... call me anything, just don't say I'm from Dundee.....
Please someone at the BBC , get a grip..... once upon a time somone defacated on a Primeministers head - once mentioned on Today - now if Clarkson had done that, ok he should apologise.... ( but I'd pay to see it...)
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Whilst i agree that Jeremy sometimes shoots off without thinking (sometimes to hilarious effect) - doesn't everyone get the nagging feeling that he is being lined up as the next BBC Behemoth to fall on his sword a la Ross/Brand. Pretty desperate stuff - it's not like there isn't more important stuff to worry about.
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A phrase 'Margaret Thatcher's fatal legacy' makes Jonathan Dimbleby think of golliwogs.
Now, we have all written golliwog many times, apart from the timid who have put 'the g word', Eddie has said it on air dozens of times as have most other announcers, presenters and newsreaders, newspapers have printed it millions of times. Are we now inoculated from being outraged, insulted, devastated, humiliated, angered, pithed-off and aghast? And can we now put this silly storm back in the teacup?
I rest my case.
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I do feel there is something very dodgy about the criteria on which the BBC judges its delinquents - nothing to do with gender I suppose? because there doesn't seem to any other consistent rationale.
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Is thr BBC disappearing up it's own politically correct fundament?
Let's be clear, Clarkson only said what the majority of good English people would say. Carol Thatcher only said what an awful lot of us of a certain age would possibly say in private.
The way they have been treated (especially by the Conroller of Radio1) is stupid and schoolishly petty.
Ross and Brand were in a different league.
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The BBC's fits of 'morality' evidently only apply to presenters with a small fanbase: does anyone here really, honestly think that if Jeremy Clarkson had made the 'golliwog' remark, he'd have been sacked? Judging by the BBC's response to the murdering prostitute 'jokes' and the killing animals boasts, the answer is a big fat NO. And I can't see the Daily Mail weighing in behind Gordon Brown, another factor that clearly influences BBC 'morality'.
Btw, I keep hearing that he is 'popular' - well, so was Bernard Manning. The difference is, Jeremy Clarkson makes his sexist, homophobic, racist and disablist remarks in a public schoool accent. So that's all right, then.
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All helps to keep the real BBC scandal - Thompson's meetings with Sharon etc. - out of the news.
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My opinion of a recidivist such as Clarkson is already low so my expectations of him are correspondingly so. I am not therefore offended by his moronic remarks which are entirely expected but I am offended by the over-generous salary he is paid to occupy valuable space on my television screen. Perhaps the BBC should 'do an Obama on him' when his contract comes up for renewal.
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"One-eyed" (fact about GB)
"Scottish" (fact about GB)
"idiot" (speculation about GB)
"lying" (speculation about GB)
Interesting, isn't it, that only the first two words seem to have caused offence?
Surely someone must have called George W Bush a "chimp-faced American idiot" at some point in the past 8 years, and I don't recall any media furore about that....
When is this bandwagon going to get stuck in the snow?
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Well done Jeremy.... he is only saying what most people think.. PM has great opportunity with this crisis... but has taken and wasted our money for 10 years and has nothing to say but spin, and inability to implement strategy.... increasingly, UK is becoming `banana republic'... our bankers have pocketed £32Bn in bonuses over 4 years, which is almost as much as the tax payer has given them over last few months.... and they are just about to pay themselves bonuses again... and our PM wonders why we are all upset when he does nothing about it except utter `motherhood statements'..... put a ceiling on pay, no bonuses, take back bonuses like Sweden in 1992, make public sector pensions same as private sector, put our MPs on the same indexing as pensioners, provide proper support to small businesses, make public sector accountable etc etc..... and then the UK would have a chance of getting the economy going again.....
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Can we please put Jeremy Clarkson and Carole Thatcher into a big brother house somewhere and just leave them there spouting their offensive nonsense to each other. You only need to tell them there are cameras on them, you wouldn't need to actually broadcast - the rest of us shouldn't have to put up with it.
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Is Jeremy Clarkson lashing out after being called a "petrolhead biggot" by Jonathan Porritt?
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JC comment re GB seemed very unfair to idiots.
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52. At 5:23pm on 06 Feb 2009, 3Dots wrote:
Re: the Jeremy Clarkson comment: will people please get a life.
Though let's look:
Brown is Scottish: Check
Brown has one eye: Check
Brown is an idiot: *cough*
Also, Clarkson seems to be the whipping boy for any comment he makes and the BBC seem to revel in telling everyone about his antics.
Should people make fun of physical disabilities? Probably not but then again the sheer anger at Brown's part in bringing this country in a recession is the sort of thing that makes people vent at those person in...a slightly unfair personal manner.
I am sure the view of many people of Brown wouldn't get past the moderators on this site.'
Mine wouldn't pass, but it wouldn't include anything about his physical disability which is irrelevant to what he does need to answer for, and before the recession [arguable, it is global and he's not that powerful] I would place Iraq, which he supported Blair in blustering through parliament, and has funded ever since with our money. Only a callow fool makes fun of people's disabilities; we all have them, some are more obvious than others.
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I'm not surprised, but I'm disgusted at Clarkson's latest behaviour. Characters like him and some of his co-presenters share the same characteristics as the Ross presenter: they compete with one another like eleven year old lads vying to find the most outrageous things to say.
I'm sure a lot of people with the same outlook love him for it. I deplore it. It lowers standards (and I'm not an up-tight oldie) and sets the wrong example to young boys particularly.
I also feel that his "apology" sounded grudging and not a real felt apology at all.
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ROSS CLARKSON THATCHER
This is great excuse to terminate all those vastly overpaid autocue readers at the BBC.. Clarkson !! fine one to call someone else an idiot. he needs to look in a mirror to see the BIG one whose going BALD..
Can we vote out the Royal family and become a republic. what political party has that on there manifesto- agenda
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63. At 5:29pm on 06 Feb 2009, David_McNickle
Did he? I hadn't heard, but then I never watch him, so wouldn't. Should he apologise though, it strikes me it's quite accurate actually, although brain damaged might be more accurate due to all the cocaine he [allegedly] used - that's Bush, not Brand. But as Bush is American, why should anyone bother. Isn't he working there now, so maybe it was a career move to make himself popular in the US.
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What a surprise that this big head has such a loud mouth and does he have any idea how offensive he is to other people with or without physical problems!
We don't like his programs anyway, if he was sacked it would not great loss!
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As a pupil, making bullying remarks such as Ross, Clarkson and Thatcher made you'd be reprimanded/disciplined.
As a teacher you'd be disciplined/lose your job.
Why are they above a straightforward disciplinary system? First warning, 2nd and OUT!
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Mr Brown has proved himself to be an incompetent chancellor who finds it hard to tell the truth. He has presided over the biggest redistribution of wealth away from the worst-off in the last 100 years and appears to care more about supporting America than for anyone in the country which pays his salary. anything that Jeremy Clarkson says about him is mild compared to what should be said.
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Factually I have no problem with it whatever. Gordon Brown does indeed have one eye and is an idiot.
As to the Scottish aspect - probably not, he doesn't even have a Scottish accent any more ...
he is estuary Bwown.
Years of Westminster backroom deals in england's capital have corrupted - even his accent!
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Why on earth should Jeremy Clarkson be criticised for stating something that was 100% factual ?
Gordon Brown :
Has only one functional eye
He is Scottish
and in the general population at least 50% of people think that his handling of the economy has been idiotic.
Political correctness has gone too far.
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Presumably the Radio 4 news people who pursue these stories (Carole Thatcher, Jeremy Clarkson etc.) don't know what it is like to be insulted consistently because of colour or disability etc.
They don't understand how threatening it is to suffer this kind of abuse in the work plac nor do they understand that managers have a duty of care to thier staff and responsibility for the reputation and competence of their organisation.
In the rest of the world (outsie the privilege of the unaccountable newsrooms) it is bad enough to go through the day with these kinds of insults, now our leaders of opinion, our agenda setters have nothing better to do than continually foreground these bullying - the climate is being generated that inhibits action being taken in the rest of the working and social world.
This isn't about PC - it about respect and the right to be voice an opinion without creating a climate of fear
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Jezza is absolutely spot on about Gordo. Pity about the one-eyed bit but as for his competence you can only speak the truth.
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#49, #63
Jeremy Clarkson is an eejit.
Jeremy Clarkson knows he is an eejit.
Russell Brand is an eejit.
Russell Brand thinks he is a genius.
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Jeremy Clarkson may think he is an entertainer who is allowed to say anything but he just demeans himself by remarks like that. This is not a case of exercising free speech but abusing it.
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This is getting very boring. Only Gordon Brown is entitled to be offended, not third parties who presumably have a pro or anti-Clarkson agenda. As Brown has not complained we should find someone else to ban from the BBC such as Jonathan Ross--nuff said, and Jo Brand whose obsession with her genitals and anti-man material I find constantly offensive. Who do I complain to?
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'Blizzards have wreaked havoc across the country!'
BBC Radio 4 News, 6pm.
Actually, it's all but melted here in Herefordshire. Feeling quite left out, why us? Where's the snow gone? Had a trudge this morning in pristine snow, dogs, grinning, had a great time, met up with about eight of their friends, and all of them dashed about on a mad chase, snow flying, just like kids. Now it's all gone.
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The BBC is at fault for employing these offensive creatures (Clarkson, Brand, Ross, Thatcher), since their sole purpose in BBC life is to be offensive and provocative. Never knowingly watch/listen to any of them.
BTW, Clarkson apologised for commenting on Brown's appearance - which he did not do, he belittled him in part for his disability.
Thatcher declares her comment was a 'joke' - but it was still offensive, racist and unacceptable. Comedians can't make such jokes, so why should she or anyone else be able to? Also, what does it matter whether it was said in the green room or elsewhere? the point is she said it, and clearly harbours racist views.
As for Ross and Brand - they resort to childish humour, presumably because that's all they're capable of? That seems to be what the BBC wants, but it is harmful and destructive, as evidenced by the fact that under-25s seem to not understand that it's offensive. That's really frightening to me.
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The BBC is setting a dangerous precedent by preventing its presenter from expressing fact.
Gordon Brown has one eye, he is Scottish and he is an idiot.
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Comments posted on this subject are meant to be Post-moderated.
According to this very site, Post-moderation means "all messages appear on the board first and are checked afterwards. Most BBC message boards are supervised in this way"
Yet at 18:45 Friday there are a very large proportion of posts which have not been published but are said to be "awaiting moderation" ( Including one of mine that was actually read out on the PM programme this afternoon )
Why is this ???
Are these from people who have transgressed in some way previously ? Are they now on some kind of secret, undisclosed BBC list and
their posts are now held back until they have been checked ?
Please advise.
Chris Sheldrake
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I am not a strong supporter of Jeremy Clarkson but he got it right about Brown. But I suppose Jeremy is looking after No1 and therefore felt he had to apologize in case he got the sack!
Sorry, you don't sack males like Ross; only people who say something in private.
It's a pity the BBC is not more consistent. Why not go the whole hog and ban all "Free speech"?
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Jeremy Clarkson's reference to Brown having only one eye was actually relevant in the context of the economy :
I'm sure in Clarkson's mind he was thinking of a Myopic* Brown continuing to turn a Nelsonian blind eye to the consequences for the economy of his 11 year "tax and spend" strategy.
Wait a minute, haven't we heard this all before ?
Weren't all previous Labour governments ultimately brought down by their irresponsible tax and spend policies ??
So would David Cameron risk the anger of the disability lobby by making this kind of Nelsonian reference to Brown at PMQs ?
After all, there is a precedence for this : David Heseltine very effectively referred to the Labour party as a "one legged army marching to the command : Left !" Left ! Left ! Left !
Everyone thought this was an incredibly clever and effective speech at the time and it was repeatedly shown on every news progamme on the BBC.
But I wonder if this would be acceptable to the Uber-PC disability brigade today ?
One things certain, the speech wouldn't be shown on the 21st century BBC.
*Definition of Myopic :
"Lack of discernment or long-range perspective in thinking or planning"
"lacking foresight or scope"
"a short view of the problem";
"shortsighted policies"
( spot on !!)
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The avalanche of sour grapes and protestations from Brown cronies does nothing the enhance the PMs credibility. I am sure he would rather they ignored Clarkson's comments. However any chance to get the news away from the failing economy and the givernment's so far ineffective measures to halt the decline of the pound are surely good news. Maybe the PM would rather be viewed as someone needing to be defended rather than someone who seems to be failing to steer the country through difficult times.
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Clarkson is an odious, right wing man but I have to admit I do find him funny. His remarks about Gordon Brown's eye is repulsive. However, I remember the jokes about Heather Mills's artificial leg flying around at the time of her divorce from Paul McCartney. There was no great outcry then and there should have been. Disability can be funny if individuals are excluded and care is taken. The Peter Cook - Dudley Moore sketch about the one-legged actor applying for the role of Tarzan in a film is extremely funny and not, to my mind, offensive.
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Have we lost all sense of proportion? The Guardian reports that Lord Foulkes was "outraged" at the BBCs lack of action over the comments. He really should get out more! Can we really not insult a politician? Must we put up with this humourless PC claptrap from our politicians and the BBC?
WRT Clarkson's comments, the blind jib may have been in poor taste but the PM is certainly Scottish and has clearly lied - or perhaps boom and bust really are a thing of the past and he really did save the world!
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Jeremy Clarkson should be joining Carol Thatcher at the Job Centre, but since he is not related to Margaret Thatcher and is one of the most boring presenters he is bound to survive.
I think what he said about Gordon Brown may be what many of us think but he the fact that chose to ridicule Gordon Brown's lack of sight in one eye shows how prejudiced he is. The second big boob he made was that it was letting the UK down by running down the leader of this country's government in another country. Thirdly...was he ridiculing the fact Brown is a Scot?....prejudice I shout!!!!
But the BBC are so biased that it is 2nd class presenters like Clarkson, Jonathan Ross, Jo Brand et al that appears to be most favoured.
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Whether Gordon Brown is an idiot or not is a matter of opinion - fair enough. By describing him that way, Clarkson indicates that he does not think Gordon Brown suitable for the office of Prime Minister. By appending the adjectives "one-eyed" and "Scottish", Clarkson infers that being partially sighted and of Scots origin makes Brown even less fit to be Prime Minister. That is offensive and racist.
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Jeremy is a little boy who likes to play with his little toys (cars!) He really shouldn't enter into debate about intelligent subjects like politics or politicians.
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#38 Treorchi1
Why the "per se"? The clause worked fine without the addition.
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2 male presenters who make - very public - offensive comments and keep their jobs. 1 female makes a - fairly private - offensive commnt and loses her job. Double standards???
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I see a number of people have defended Free Speech. If only it were. If Clarkson wasn't very well paid by the rest of us, of course he could say what he likes but it is because he trousers a lot of our money, he should try a little restraint in his public pronouncements. As it is, he is the epitome of the self-hatred that so many people now applaud. Ross, Brand, Thatcher and now Clarkson. The BBC showcases so many detached and dysfunctional people now, TV is fast becoming the 21st Century equivalent of going to Bethlem hospital in the 18th to laugh at the inmates. Incidentally, should the other Brand, Jo, ever be invited back onto the One Show?
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Am I allowed to suggest that Clarkson and Woss are two-eyed English (male) idiots who, when it comes to making offensive remarks, get off pretty lightly?
This boring "I've got gallons of testosterone and they thought I was bl00dy/weally funny when I was 15..." twaddle; if I really wanted to know about it I'd eavesdrop on a boys' public school or a uni rugby club or some such sweaty, hairy enclave.
They're sad, middle-aged men who can't accept their pot bellies, wrinkles and possible hair problems.
Having said that, I know quite a few middle-aged men with some or all of the above who are witty, delightful and attractive. But they're not boors. Or bores.
PS: and I'm not anti-rugby, either. Going to be glued to the 6 Nations.
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This link will take you to the Carol Thatcher debate.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/fivelivebreakfast/2009/02/what_language_is_acceptable_at.html#dnaacs
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All comments here are pre-moderated. How come that's not the case on the Carol Thatcher debate?
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Rediscovered Top Gear after a 20 year interregnum, great entertainment and Jeremy Clarkson is an amusing host for the show. As for Gordon Brown he should avail himself of one of his new Memory Clinics for those suffering from terminal memory loss. The only difference between him and Robert Mugabe is that the latter holds elections and then ignores the result, whereas Gordon Brown has a total aversion to any form of elections.
Latest polls show Mr Clarkson has a 38% lead over Labour.
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What a fuss over something of little importance.
First point. Mr G Brown had an unfortunate accident earlier in his life which left him with one eye. Referring to him as 'one-eyed' is an accurate description, not a slur on his humanity or character. Not an insult then - so why be offended.
Second point. Mr G Brown has often express how proud he is to have been born in Scotland - not his doing, you understand, just like the depression/recession/downturn. Not an insulting adjective then, this Scottish thing.
OK - I'll give you being called an idiot can be offensive - but coming from Clarkson, who has often been described as a TV idiot, it's scarcely a reason for national outrage.
Personally, I think Scots have too much influence in England. The people most outraged by Jeremy's remark seem to be MP's of Scottish constituencies. The very same people who demand a vote on matters affecting England after the Scottish Parliament has settled the same matters north of the border. Sorry guys, for me your opinion does not count.
Gordon Brown seems hellbent on getting a statue next to William Wallace with the engraving 'He tried battle and lost - I stuffed the English economy and won' - if the ruination of our economy was not deliberate then idiot seems to me to be an understated description.
But then - if you want to take a swipe at Clarkson, I bet he can take it better than those to whom he gives it, so go ahead.
By the way - I rate his apology, quality.
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To be accurate "Gordon Brown is a British idiot" - though insults become pointless unless the adjectives are germane to the point (if any) being made. Otherwise they become simply verbose pomposity (perhaps why some of you are sympathetic to Clarkson.)
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"MrBontana wrote:
Whilst i agree that Jeremy sometimes shoots off without thinking (sometimes to hilarious effect) - doesn't everyone get the nagging feeling that he is being lined up as the next BBC Behemoth to fall on his sword a la Ross/Brand. "
Top Gear makes so much money for the BBC that Clarkson is safe even if the news department seem to have the knives out for him.
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Why the (supposed) outrage at Clarkson’s remarks? What part of his statement is factually incorrect? Perhaps the critics lack perspective – like Brown.
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What does it mean that 'Data at the root level is invalid on line 1'?
Is this some new sort of computerised censorship from the BBC? I've tried to post my comment about 5 or 6 times now.
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Data at the root level is invalid on line 1
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Dear BBC. Sorry if I've multi-posted. I keep getting the message below.
There has been a problem...
Your comment contains some HTML that has been mistyped.
Data at the root level is invalid on line 1
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#72, what ross and brand did was as nothing compared to the out-and-out racism displayed by Carol Thatcher.
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1. One-eyed:
Eye, noun, The organ of sight. Of which Gordon Brown has only one after having being kicked in the head during a game of rugby (insert obvious joke here). Therefore correct.
2. Scottish:
Gordon Brown was born in Govan, Glasgow, Scotland, (wikipedia). Therefore correct.
3. Idiot:
It's not unprecedented, it's not just one man's opinion. He's been called far worse without 'guardian readers' kicking up a fuss.
Summary: Gordon Brown is a one-eyed, Scottish, idiot. Q.E.D.
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Jeremy Clarkson should be ashamed of his cruel comments about Gordon Brown and the halfhearted apology he gave did nothing to redeem himself.
Gordon Brown has achieved much despite his disability and Jeremy Clarkson isn't worth listening to on this or any other matter!
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This sort of thing is becoming tidius, Clarkson is and entertainer after all, and if it is coming to the point that nobody can make a joke then we might aswell give up living. Clarkson did not offend any body, after all Brown is Scottish and he has one eye, and any one who wan't the job of priminister of the UK must be an idiot. For God sake (o' sorry, can I not say that anymore incase I offend christians), Lighten up or we will end up like the USA, having to watch every word we say in fear of a libale suit.
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Jeremy's racist comment:
There is a distinction between what you say to someone who knows you, and to a public audience, even if it's just out with new friends, who obviously don't.
I think many are missing the point. The phrase was meant as a negative, so the term "Scottish" as used in it, was derogatory. Therefore it labelled "Scottish" as insulting. Yes, it did not convey that every Scot is an idiot but did portray them like that in general terms.
Further, I think would have also been a backlash if Jeremy has said 'fat'. There is no nice way of saying someone is fat and avoiding sounding as if you are criticising.
Should fat people accept criticism as a rule? Only if they want to. Such words said in the public domain deny them the right to express whether or not they see them as acceptable. It is to be told something and not to reply.
That is a lack of respect.
You must assume repsect unless you have reason to assume otherwise.
That's good manners.
As a Scot myself, I'm not that fussed. It's not that the comments make me feel small. (We've been used to being referred to in the derogatory from (some, well, a lot, but I'm not bitter!) English commentators for a few decades or so.)
Rather it's you English guys I want to realise the effect using this language has on yourselves. You look petty, small-minded ignorant and dare I say, out of touch. It's not becomming - you were once a great nation.
Having or not having a thick skin in no way excuses or lets off racism, as I'm sure you'd know.
Ought ethnic minorities, women and homosexuals for example to 'just toughen up' and take whatever name you see fit to call them? Sometimes, maybe, but it is where their choice over whether to do so in this matter is taken away, when I have the problem.
I'd highlight the difference of joshing and light banter. If it is between two groups who do not personally know each other, care is taken to avoid any ambiguous intent.
If it is between two known friends then an insulting term can be used as it can successfully be communicated as not being seriously meant.
In public life, we do not standardly have that intimate luxury and a statement is taken at its literal meaning, however it may or may not have been intended.
Therefore it is common sense and further good manners (c'mon England) not to indulge in such ignorant activity.
I don't think Jeremy meant any real harm, but then again he did, because he is wiley enough to know how his comments sounded but arrogant enough not to care.
Well, if he wants to pi$$ on my nationality then he'll have to take the flack.
If he were in my living room I'd have been able to give him a 'slagging back', then we might have been friends? But in the public domain the subject of his gags have no available action by way of recourse, and so they must by default take it. That is a definition of bullying.
And Jeremy knows it.
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#115 Verisimilitude100
Yet another post demonstrating total ignorance of English Constitutional Law.
Online postings to decide if there should be an election? Happy with that operating under the next Tory Government?
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#116 Bob_bloggist
"I think Scots have too much influence in England".
An interesting statement. Let's try deconstructing it. How about "I think Jews have too much influence in England" or "I think blacks have too much influence in England".
So as it stands it's a pretty racist statement. However, I'm sure you don't actually mean that to be the case.
So perhaps you meant "I think Scots politicians have too much influence in England". If you're referring to the fact that the UK Parliament is also the Parliament for English domestic affairs, then most Scots would agree with you. Only Labour MPs from Scotland vote on English only matters - the others recuse themselves.
That this situation exists, however, is entirely the responsibility of the residents of England. Did you campaign or vote for an English Parliament? - Very unlikely. Were you happy with the pre-devolution settlement in which English politicians had too much influence in Scotland. Probably.
If you want constitutional change for yourselves - do something about it. Otherwise it's simply "English whinge".
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Anthony (121),
The blog software i very sensitive to improperly closed (or opened) HTML tags. It also doesn't really like ampersands, so you'r better off using "and" or "+" instead.
Some hints here
Good luck
ed
P.S. "line 1" can be almost anywhere in your comment ;-)
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#109 oldnat
"#38 Treorchi1
Why the "per se"? The clause worked fine without the addition."
-----
#38 Treorchi1
"I have nothing against Scots per se,"
----
It's because he does really.
It's like we are some kind of vegetable,
"I've nothing against parsnips per se, just not when they are on my plate."
Did he mean to say,
"I have nothing against Scots per se, just not when they are running my country."?
Probably.
;-D
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It was all the little blokes fault. Yea, thats him Hammond.
This was not posted by J. Clarkson.
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# Oldnat 129
I believe the phrase English Constitutional Law displays ignorance, for if you had read any you would know that it should be “The Law of The Constitution”
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People in England seem to think that Scottish politicians are upset about this... maybe because of the way the BBC reported it with their usual Labour bias...
Quote from BBC Scottish news page "Why has Jeremy Clarkson upset Scottish politicians?"
It's not Scottish politicians who are getting upset... it is Labour politicians in Scotland. The rest of the country couldn't care less and pretty much agree with Clarkson.
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Jeremy has only said aloud what many of us think daily. Gordon, call an election now.
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On Any Questions last night, it was explained that Thatcher was sacked because she only made a partial apology. Well, Jeremy Clarkson has now withdrawn, or made it blatantly clear, that he too is only offering a partial apology. His retraction of his 'apology' is proudly pasted all over the cover of today's tabloids and the Murdoch TV media. He evidently believes he is untouchable, and the BBC's reaction to his earlier offences makes it sadly very clear that in this he's right - the schoolyard bully is also the teacher's pet.
I've been on the BBC once, to do a piece on Woman's Hour - when I went in, I was warned not to say anything party political. My subject was cookery. If the BBC is that strict about a guest on Woman's Hour, why is a fully paid up (very fully!) presenter operating under a BBC banner (an 'ambassador' of sorts for the corporation on an Australian jaunt!) allowed to make party political remarks like this, remarks which have now gone global, and for which he refuses to apologise? C'mon, why?
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The thing that stood out for me from this episode was who got wheeled out on the media claiming to be offended. Scottish Labour MPs were all I saw on television voicing how offended they were on behalf of Scots, disabled people, Mr Brown, Uncle Tom Cobbly and all. I haven't seen one single comment or reaction from the man who was actually criticised. Now I admit that I haven't seen all coverage, so it is possible that I have missed such a comment from the PM, but it doesn't seem to there and that's rather telling I think.
Whether you agree with Mr Clarkson or not, I just wish that everybody would stop being offended on behalf of other people. Mr Brown has a mouth and a working voice, if he has a problem with what Mr Clarkson said, he should speak up for himself. After all, half of politics seems to be trading insults these days, why is it different just because it didn't happen in The Commons? Everyone else should, frankly, mind their own business.
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I think all this snow has gone to too many heads!
You keep a troshin JC! Tell it as it really is, that's your charm.
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Why are my comments still being moderated before being listed ?
I have made seven posts starting in May 2008 and have had 25 comments under the same login name published on the BBC "have your say" pages.
Surely I cannot still be regarded as "new" in this context.
Can we please have an explanation ???
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#135 Verisimilitude100
"The Law of the Constitution" is certainly part of the title of Dicey's book.
But haven't you read Botmy, Mahajan, Cooley, or any of the others which refer to "English Constitutional Law"?
"Beware of the person of one book." (St. Thomas Aquinas)
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We really must get rid of this absurd idea that anyone in the public spotlight has to apologise for ( just possibly ) offending almost anyone.
Channel 4 News last night broadcast as news a video of the entire conversation in which Clarkson's Gordon Brown 1ESI phrase was used.
This was clearly done to set the phrase in context.
At the end of the programme, John Snow had to read out a statement apologising for any offence caused by broadcasting it !
How crazy is that !
These people who take offence really do need to get things in perspective.
To state something factual about someone should never be considered an insult.
Whatever context in which you describe Gordon Brown as Scottish must therefore be OK. For example :
Clarkson described him as a "Scottish idiot".
Unlikely, I know, but it just might be possible to find someone, somewhere in the UK who might describe Brown as a "Scottish Genius".
To be consistent, those citizens of Scotland that felt insulted by Clarkson's "racist" comment should feel just as aggrieved about the second.
However, if you insulted the whole Scottish nation by making a sweeping generalisation, saying, for example, "every Scot is tight fisted", would clearly not be acceptable or fair,would it ?
Generous Scots would clearly have a right to feel offended.
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In respect of my last post I would like to make it absolutely clear that I do not regard Gordon Brown as "Tight Fisted."
Quite the opposite : over the last 11 years he has proved remarkably generous with my money ( and yours ), dishing it out to all and sundry with a distinct lack of prudence and a scant regard for the consequences which, of course, we are all now seeing.
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a 127, Is that Verious Tidious, the Roman writer, that you are referring to?
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#148 hfevo2
What Clarkson actually said (comparing the Australian and UK PMs) was "In England, we have a one-eyed Scottish idiot".
Clarkson is a crass buffoon, and such terminology is only to be expected. The interesting thing has been the reaction of so many posters defending what he said.
Take away those terms which he was simply using as insults, and his comment becomes "In England, we have someone who is Scottish (ie not one of us)".
Many of you (judging by your posts) share that resentment. However, it's rather unpleasant to couch it in terms of identity. Would you object to Liam Fox - a Briton from Scotland representing the constituency of Woodspring in Somerset? Or is the objection that Brown represents a Scottish constituency? The first objection borders on "racism" (though there doesn't seem to be an appropriate word, since there's little difference in ethnicity). The second relates to a democratic deficit in England.
You can easily solve the democratic deficit for yourselves - just campaign and vote for it. Now that's not too hard.
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pp 85, To begin with, I asked if Brand had apologised. I didn't say he did. I wouldn't know because I don't listen to rubbish like that.
Say some of those things that you said about Bush, but using the names Brown or Blair and see how long the post stays here.
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Now that we all know the name of the tennis player Thatcher was referring to, can I mention his name here or post a link to his photo? I doubt it.
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I just looke and his hair doesn't look that extreme to me.
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i dont see why the use of one-eyed and scottish is offensive, the only offensive term in this statement was idiot, had idiot been replaced with a complimentary word such as genius this statement would not be seen as offensive in the slightest, the remarks about his nationality and his appearence where made simply to identify him.
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LATE HATE
Believe me I’m no Philistine!
I keep all my language in line.
With my Pharisee leanings
and other demeanings suppressed
I am truly benign!
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"This comment comes from without the M25, and has been referred to the moderators as dangerous".
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My previous comment has been 'referred to the moderators', so I'll try again:-
Jeremy Clarkson is a self-satisfied fathead. Apologies, Jeremy.
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Hi Patty"
;-O
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When I was taking a psychology course in college in the 1960s, the terms m*r*n, imb*c*le, and id**t were commonly used to mean people with IQs of 50-75, 25-50, and under 25. Then PC came along.
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As you can see, one or all of those words is not allowed here now. (post 161)
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Clarkson is an imbecile.
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Clarkson is an idiot.
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At least we now know that Clarkson is not a m*r*n.
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David - I've had a problem with that ''m'' word, too - on the ' Thread. My comment was removed, though other posters were allowed to use the plural - ''morons''. Bizarre!
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I should add that at no time was I abusing anyone - just taking someone else to task, who had used the word as an insult.
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You D_M @165 might say that.
I couldn't possibly comment (and remain un-moderated)
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151. At 11:57am on 07 Feb 2009, oldnat wrote ;
"Take away those terms which (Clarkson) was simply using as insults, and his comment becomes "In England, we have someone who is Scottish (ie not one of us)"."
In England we don't see much difference between using the term "England" or "UK". I think this is because we are more comfortable and relaxed about our status within the UK than the Scots or the Welsh. It was therefore perfectly reasonable for Clarkson to say "in England".
Would Scots have felt less insulted if he said "in Britain?"
We will indeed campaign and vote for change and change there will be.
After the next election there will almost certainly be a Conservative government without a majority in Scotland. Scots will then have a perfect right to vote for independence in the promised referendum. I have no opinion on the subject, that is a matter for the Scots alone to decide. However, whatever the decision, Scots will have to accept the consequences of their actions.
If they vote for independence I doubt whether English tax payers would be prepared to put in any more money to bale out badly managed, bankrupt Scottish Banks and what we have already put in, we will want back.
We could therefore see Scotland firmly under the control of the IMF.
If the Scots vote to remain within the United Kingdom they will have effectively voted to accept and support a United Kingdom Government- including a Conservative one without a majority in Scotland.
The issue will then be closed for a generation and it will do nobody any good to hear any wingeing from North of the border about the "English Government" of the kind we saw when the Conservatives were previously in power.
That would indeed be racist.
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G 166, But I was allowed to say imbecile and idiot.
C 168, What I meant was that I was allowed to call him an imbecile and an idiot, but not a m*r*n. I took that mean that he was the first two, but not the third.
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Actually, Clarkson's hair looks a bit, er, frizzy.
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#169 hfevo2
"In England we don't see much difference between using the term "England" or "UK". I think this is because we are more comfortable and relaxed about our status within the UK than the Scots or the Welsh."
I imagine that you are right in being more comfortable with it, since you make up 84% of the UK. For you, it must be more or less the same thing.
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In reality, all of the insults being hurled at Jeremy Clarkson in this Blog are being made, not because of any lack of intelligence on his part, but because he has strong views a minority of bloggers disagree with and he expresses them. Loudly.
Being a very clever chap, Jeremy has developed a unique style which he has honed to appeal to many and the greater proportion of viewers watching Top Gear find him extremely entertaining.
Hence the huge popularity of the programme here and around the world.
Perhaps what the critics here really don't like is that he's been clever enough to make lots of money along the way.
There are definitions of some of the insults bloggers have used, including a maximum IQ level required to qualify as an idiot.
I'm quite sure Jeremy Clarkson has an IQ much higher than this.
In a similar way, I don't really think Gordon Brown is an idiot. I disagree with almost everything he has done but, because he too is an intelligent man, I can really only say that, in my opinion, he has been misguided and myopic.
But that would be boring, wouldn't it.
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#169 hfevo2
Again I agree with you that the most likely result of the next election will be a Conservative Government. A majority of English MPs will then run English affairs - which is only right and proper.
However, unless you make the appropriate constitutional changes, then when the Tories eventually lose, you would be back in the same position.
Doesn't it make sense to ensure that the English democratic deficit is corrected under all circumstances?
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#169 hfevo2
Were the Scots to vote for independence, then there would be appropriate negotiations over the appropriate division of assets and debts during the period of union.
The debt incurred by the UK Government to take stakes in the banks would be one such factor - as would the comparative inputs from the different economies.
Unfortunately we're going to have to share the cost of Labour's illegal wars - but that's the UK for you!
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#169 hfevo2
You would be heartened by the change in Scotland.
With our own Parliament we no longer have MPs from outwith Scotland voting on our internal affairs, as we had previously.
The whinge about external control of national affairs is almost entirely an English one now, but the solution to that lies entirely in your own hands.
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It's good to see we agree on so much !
The present constitutional settlement is not at all ideal - another labour bodge to ensure they preserve a majority in the Commons with their large group of Scottish MPs.
I would like to see the referendum held soon and we can then get on and sort everything out properly.
If it's independence, yes, things need to be divided equitably and I am sure they would be.
If the union is maintained, we clearly need to :
Bar Scottish and Welsh MPs from voting on matters in England and Wales that are devolved in Scotland and Wales respectively.
Completely re-write the Barnet formula for the fair distribution of tax revenue according to need and
Alter constituency boundaries throughout the Kingdom to ensure that each MP has an equal number of voters.
This may mean that Labour never again have enough MPs to vote through contested policies on English matters but that would be the consequencies for democracy in an equitable, brave new devolved world.
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And I didn't even mention sorting out our respective relationships with the EU.
That certainly needs looking at !!!!
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#177 hfevo2
Of course we agree on a lot - we live on the same islands. Of course we would both probably agree with much of the population in the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands, and they're not even in the UK.
While we're sorting out the constitutional anomalies, I'm sure you'll agree to the CoE bishops losing their representation in the Lords?
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It's true that many of our values are shared - especially the quality of fairness which is so much a part of the British Character.
That's probably the reason you haven't challenged any of the changes I suggest need be made if the union is maintained : they are essentially to ensure equality.
Under the present system I would probably have the same concerns as the Scots or Welsh if I were one of the 14%.
As far as the Bishops are concerned, I would probably rather see Church of Scotland Bishops enter the Lords. The Bishops add something rather unique to the place.
But then we would have to endure a never ending argument about Imams etc getting equal treatment and it would simply never end.
Of course we can simply maintain the status quo if you all vote for independence......
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#180 hfevo2
"I would probably rather see Church of Scotland Bishops enter the Lords."
A bit difficult, since the Church of Scotland is Presbyterian and has no bishops. Of course if you want to do a Charles I !
It's one of the problems about discussing these things, as we know an awful lot about England since it's always on the news, but you don't really know very much about us.
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Whatever happened to tolerance? And that is both ways.
Who are these humourless self-appointed gatekeepers of the new age? I accept fully that there are laws surrounding incitement and the like but, short of those, who are BBC One's Controller and the panel of Question Time (just to pick a couple of examples in recent days) to tell me what language I should and should not be using.
Associated with which, has anybody bothered to count the number of times the word "offence" featured on any BBC news or current affairs programme in recent days? Does anyone REALLY have skin that thin?
Cant't be all grow up a bit?
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OK, so why not enoble a suitable number of C Of S ministers ?
Not the most difficult of the issues to sort : unless, of course, they develop an inferiority complex in the presence of the C of E Bishops.
I know, we'll make them Honorary Bishops !
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#183 hfevo2
Apart from anything else, all CoS ministers are working ministers who have a parish to look after - our Church doesn't have a "management class" who can be sent off to have long lunches with lots of port (that is the HoL isn't it?)
No much better that we keep our ministers here, where most of them do useful work, and send you a few extra politicians (I've finally returned to the equal constituencies bit) instead. Politicians (especially Labour ones) are no loss to us.
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I really don't see how being personally offensive to anyone can in any way be viewed as acceptable.
Unfortunately highly paid "presenters" such as Ross and Clarkeson have realised there's quite a nice living to made out of it.
If it wasn't for television where could such non-entities earn so much money?
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I wonder if Jeremy Clarkson would be happy for Gordon Brown to call him a "Conceited, over-rated English yob" which just about sums him up in my opinion.
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The trouble with "personally offensive (185)" is that the entirety of the race and equality industry has jumped on the bandwagon. The only person who can describe himself as legitimately offended by Carol Thatcher is the tennis player in question. Ditto Gordon Brown.
The rest is hot air
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#186 AngelaMac62
I suspect he's the type to take it as a compliment, that he'd managed to wind people up.
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186. At 8:41pm on 07 Feb 2009, AngelaMac62 wrote:
"I wonder if Jeremy Clarkson would be happy for Gordon Brown to call him a "Conceited, over-rated English yob" which just about sums him up in my opinion".
I think he would find it quite amusing. Angela might even get a mention on Top Gear.
Unlike Jeremy's comment about GB, which was factually correct on two out of three points, Angela only scores 1 point out of 4 : Jeremy is definitely English.
Everything else she says is pure conjecture.
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If I saw Jeremy (what a manly name that is...) as he turned away and pontificating as he normally does, would I get away with referring to a "loudmouthed english erse"?
Not sure I would, so not sure he should get away with his comments.
However, if the BBC don't remove him, I don't expect this post to be removed
DC
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#183 2009, hfevo2
Agree with oldnat, but offer a more important reason:
Because religion should have nothing to do with government.
Bishops or C of S ministers etc. do not have a God given right to posture and speculate without being elected, on parliamentary affairs.
I realise they feel they feel they have that given right to intervene in aspects of our lives, but in fact it is only in the lives of those who choose it. (MPs are elected.)
As a football club has no influence in my life if I do not take an interest in following it, so a 'church' or other religious body should have no influence on my life unless I decide to join it. (But out I say.)
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I don't have a strong view on religion and would probably support your argument, aye_write.
But if it were down to me I would probably leave the Lords as an unelected house and appoint a few religious figures anyway for their humanity and intelligence.
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#192 hfevo2
Wise! (on both fronts ;-)
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Part I
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, so someone from the Beeb's at it again. Poor old Jeremy. He must be in it up to his waist by now. Buckaroo at the Beeb. It's become a joke now, hasn't it? I wonder who's next.
Does anyone remember the picture of the dog or bald cat ( I think ) on Have I got News For You that was compared to Cherie Blair? Now that was funny. It was funny then and it's funny now but is it worse than this? I think it was a lot worse ( and alot funnier, have I said that before? ) and it was broadcast.
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I can't figure this out.
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Part II
It's perfectly acceptable for the modern day BBC to 'tease' the Irish, whether it is Alan Partridge or countless times on Live At The Apollo or many other programmes. Who's going to put their head on the block for them? Who'll be the martyr for Heather Mills? I nearly forgot poor old Amy Winehouse or if you want to go back a bit, Margaret Thatcher, Michael Foot, etc. What about Harry Enfield's Tory Boy? Is that not lispist? or Little Britain? Wheelchairs, fat people, incontinence, racism? If you had this mob spruce up Little Britain, would there be anything left?
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Part III
Hopefully it will spark some sort of interesting, informative and intelligent ( the 3 I's ) non-pc backlash that will last for a thousand years so nobody will have to fear the stifling, dreary, dull stranglehold that these people are currently holding over all of our lives.
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#196 anthony2500
Interesting points. But one's comedy and the other (Jeremy's) is not.
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Doh! Got it at last. I guess that proves that I'm the idiot on this page!!
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#199. anthony2500
Well to be fair, there would be a hard choice! ;-)
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Comment198 aye_write
I don't see what difference this makes.
Jeremy Clarkson wouldn't be much of an act without his humour. I would say he said what he said in the context of trying to get a laugh or a giggle or a smirk.
Visually, Hitler is hilarious and so has been the subject of much humour for over 60 years. Is he as funny today?
It has to be one or the other. Either you can say what you want or you can't. It can't be you can say or do what you want if you're a comedian.
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#201 anthony2500
"It has to be one or the other. Either you can say what you want or you can't. It can't be you can say or do what you want if you're a comedian."
No, it can because we are conditioned if you like to expect it from a comedy act.
My earlier point in my #128 about getting away with humourously meant insulting comments to friends is another illustration.
It is not good manners or good sense to assume everyone in your audience should share the same sensibilities as do you, rather it is appropriate then to observe and understand the norms of behaviour i.e. that if your sentence is
"Brown is a Scottish idiot" know that it means both descriptive words are used insultingly, as opposed to
"Brown is Scottish and an idiot."
where the distinction between the informative "Scottish" and the insulting "idiot" is clear.
I understand Jeremy may not have intended to make this mistake, but make a mistake he did, and so therefore he should accept the fall out, apologise or both.
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#201 anthony2500
Hitler was made the object of humour (as in the Great Dictator) to minimise the effect of his offensive and dangerous ideas.
Clarkson is a "personality" (whatever that means) who says offensive things to be humorous to people who share his right-wing political views.
Hardly comparable.
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I've long suspected that Clarkson is a closet Green agent provocateur.
;-)
ed
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#204 Ed Iglehart
LOL! This blog is heaps of fun ;-)
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#204 Ed Iglehart
But the critical question is "When will he come out of the closet?"
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#206 oldnat
oldnat, it is an enormous closet, and he will come speeding out of it eventually - in a gas guzzling 'man car'!
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I'm just going to see what the last poster has said on BT then I'm heading to bed :-)
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To Comment 124
Did you watch the Ross / Brand video??
Here's a link.
http://www.wikio.co.uk/video/551119
Threatening to go round to some old age pensioners door and kick it in from Brand.
"Even after show Jonathan, we can find out where Andrew Sachs lives, kick in his front door and scream apologies into his bottom".
"You know who you are mate" ( Brand), "No that sounds threatening" ( Ross ) " I'll kill you" ( Brand )
Isn't that criminal? I thought he got off lightly.
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#196 Anthony,
"If you had this mob spruce up Little Britain, would there be anything left?"
No there would not, and the world would be a happier place.
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Don't you lot ever go to bed ????
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h 211, It depends on where we live.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#213 anthony2500
Actually that's funny!
----
"Conditioned?? Conditioned like Germans were in the 1930?s. Conditioned is a most dangerous condition. We should expect within ourselves not to be ?conditioned? by anything. That?s what?s going on here. People are trying to ?condition? us into their way of thinking."
No, not like the Germans (Oh, dear I've mentioned them now, are you going to get in to an even bigger frenzy!)...
....like common sense.
;-)
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To pattymkirkwood
PS I don’t think you can blame Broon for this mess. It’s the fault of anyone with a credit debt. This link from August 07 should explain everything you need to know about the recession, depression or the repression ( of facts ).
This is a list of countries by gross (i.e. total) external debt.
"External debt" is defined as the total public and private debt owed to nonresidents repayable in foreign currency, goods, or services (see definition). The list is based on The World Factbook unless otherwise noted. Source [1] accessed on March 2006. For informational purposes several non-sovereign entities are also included in this list.
Rank Country - Entity External Debt
(million US$) Date of information
– World 44,620,000 2004 est.
1 United States 10,040,0001 30 June 2006 est.
2 United Kingdom 8,280,0002 30 June 2006
3 Germany 3,904,000 30 June 2006
4 France 3,461,000 30 June 2006
5 Italy 1,957,000 30 June 2006 est.
6 Netherlands 1,899,000 30 June 2006
7 Spain 1,591,000 30 June 2006 est.
8 Japan 1,547,000 30 June 2006
9 Ireland 1,392,000 30 June 2006
10 Switzerland 1,077,000 30 June 2006
And the story since then........
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt
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#213, #214
I just dropped in to see what condition my condition was in. >8-D
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Anthony,
You'll get fewer ???s in your posts if youn type them directly into the comment box, or if you usen an different text editor. I suspect you're using wurd. Try notebook and/or try setting "use ascii" or somesuch under options orm preferences. This software is a bit screwed up, probably by the techies trying to keep it compatible with mickey$oft's browser...
Show windows the door ;-)
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excusem gtyposn, etcb... typing with fingerless gloves outdoors watching then snow fall...going indoors now to watch the rugger.
;-)
ed
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Perhaps Mr Brown isn't quite the "idiot" Mr Clarkson would have us believe.
"In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king."
Desiderius Erasmus (1466 - 1536)
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"External debt" is defined as "the total public and private debt owed to nonresidents repayable in foreign currency, goods, or services (see definition)".
If this list only takes into account debt, it is only half the story.
A UK balance sheet needs to include the overseas assets owned by UK PLC. I believe that we are second only to the US as owners of offshore assets. We are certainly the largest external investor in the USA.
Surely it is the net worth figure that counts ? In this case, the top ten rankings might look a bit different.
That's how I look at my own "net worth"
Have to admit it's not looking too healthy at the moment !!!
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220 hfevo2
You are talking about the "international investment position" (IIP). Whatever the supposed position was during the bubble, we need to see more contemporary data than seems to be available, to assume that any assertions such as "We are certainly the largest external investor in the USA." are accurate.
How much is that investment worth in 2009? Who knows?
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To The Moderator General #213
Which bit? Can’t you just censor the bit you find objectionable? I’m confused.
Was it the I word? German’s? Conditioning? America’s Doo Doo? Or the link to Radio Free Five Live?
To Ed Inglehart #217
The important question is ; Does it work? Windows does my head in. Nearly 30 years and it still doesn’t work.
To hfevo2 #220
I didn’t know “We are certainly the largest external investor in the USA.” This might be a ‘mess’ too far, even for Superlad Jeremy Clarkson.
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Amazing how many people have trouble with Microsoft. I have no problems. I suspect the the complainers are people who preferred Betamax, vinyl to CDs, standard shift to automatic, still use audio tapes, and don't have broadband.
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Anthony 222, Yes, it does work, and it's created and maintained in a spirit of mutual helpfulness, as opposed to the piratical profiteering spirit which has created a $oftware giant....
Dave (223), No to betamax, no to vinyl over cd, yes to stickshifts, got broadband, but don't need windoze any more than Gates needs my money.
Free as in free speech, free of cost, and freedom to modify..... Even free stuff for windoze
Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Peace
ed
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So let me get this straight... The only comedy that should be permitted according to enraged of Winchester (See Daily Telegraph website on the latest QI show) would be Terry and June, with a bit of Dad's Army and something safe for the kiddies. Ban Clarkson, because he can be an arse at times; ban QI who had the temerity to poke fun at Lady Thatcher, which incidentally does make her sound like an item for 'lady gardening' and ban any form of satire while we are at it. Then hey presto an important check and, indeed, balance against the state is gone. Poking fun at the great and good is important in a democracy. heaven help us if we forget it.
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To Ed and David #223 ,#224,
I'll compile a list of problems I've had, just over the last two or three months from what I can remember. I won't do it now as I' a bit busy. Maybe this evening.
As long as Bill gives away all his money and does as much good as he can in this world, then I don't mind paying and wish he could be richer.
I can forgive the prices, but not the hassle and countless days spent learning how to be a computer engineer, days taken from my life and gone forever.
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PS Any Sammy Wilson blogs??
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Various in the 220s, somewhere on one of the blogs for techies a .sig is in use that says, in effect, 'I used to get angry because I thought Microsoft was deliberately sending out flawed stuff instead of the best they can do. Now I think they are sending out the best they can do, and that's *sad*.'
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EI 224, Gates needs your money to give to charities. Shame on you. Apple doesn't need my money because S Jobs keeps it all.
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R1c 225, I was surprised how quiet Jo Brand was on QI the other night. I'll bet most of what was discussed wouldn't get past the mods here.
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