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Somalia

Sequin | 12:52 PM, Monday, 6 October 2008

We've got a fascinating report tonight from Mark Doyle in Somalia


It's dangerous, war-torn, hasn't had a government for two decades and Mark's been investigating the difficulties of getting aid through to the people there.

An African Union soldier on patrol in Mogadishu:

doyle_image2.GIF

Mark Doyle visits an aid clinic:


doyle_clinic.GIF

The BBC website has a special section devoted to Somalia, which you can access by clicking here

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  • 1. At 1:36pm on 06 Oct 2008, justfloating wrote:

    One of the biggest un-patrolled coast lines on the world. After the Tsunami they found that the "developed world" had been dumping toxic waste on the coast for years. It was washed over the land. Worse than any civil war.

    It is also a major route of people smuggling out of Africa. Related to the piracy.

    It has NOT been in the interest of the developed countries to control this coastline. That is why it has been left to the criminals.

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  • 2. At 1:39pm on 06 Oct 2008, Big Sister wrote:

    You mention piracy, justfloating, and I have to say that I've never understood why the piracy is so underreported. A friend of ours who is a merchant sea captain has had a number of run ins over the years -fortunately, he's survived to tell the tale - with Somalian pirates (and pirates elsewhere in the world) yet it take a ship loaded with armaments to make such stories hit the headlines. Ships have been lost, crew members murdered, yet the press is usually silent on these matters - I wonder why?

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  • 3. At 1:51pm on 06 Oct 2008, Vyle Hernia wrote:

    For a moment I thought the AU soldier in the top picture was riding a camel.

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  • 4. At 2:25pm on 06 Oct 2008, BohemianDanny wrote:

    We hardly ever hear about the terrible state that most of Africa is in because it doesn't seem to matter to Britain and the Western world. There's been a shocking amount of piracy off of the Somali coast for years, but it only broke into mainstream news recently because something important to the West was at stake.

    I look forward to hearing the report tonight, though Somalia is just a case in point. On average more people die in the Congo in a day than in Iraq in a week. The West doesn't seem to care, and this is partly because of the lack of easy access to news about these war-torn and lawless places.

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  • 5. At 5:25pm on 06 Oct 2008, justfloating wrote:

    Piracy is a really big problem, but so is theft from trucks on UK roads. But neither are really covered in the UK news.

    Piracy has some sort of glamour. But it was started especially around Somalia by the British.

    Malacca Straits and up to Singapore are a real hot spot. The anti-piracy measures are quite extensive. I have seen ships with water canons down the side. With the new technologies it is now easier to detect and predict ships. There were 144 attacks in one year.

    However, I once heard the exchange between ships after they had killed all the pirates, when they ended up going through the ships propellers! It is not all glamour.

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  • 6. At 4:23pm on 08 Oct 2008, Chris_Ghoti wrote:

    justfloating @ 5, I have always been baffled by the idea that piracy is 'glamorous'. It's just theft and murder, but on ships instead of on land.

    In the same way I never saw why assault of a pedestrian and theft of belongings needed to be given a term (mugging) that made it sound less like 'a nasty person attacking another and robbing him/her'. It used to be 'robbery with violence', and as far as I am concerned it still is.

    As for 'honour killing', I may have mentioned before that this seems to me a rather silly gloss on wilful, premeditated taking of another person's life. What's wrong with just calling it 'murder'? That's what it *is*.

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  • 7. At 08:30am on 09 Oct 2008, Big Sister wrote:

    According to our merchant navy captain, there is zero glamour in piracy.

    Most ships which travel through the areas most prone to piracy carry with them large sums of money with which to 'buy off' the pirates, and the crew don't argue with these modern day brigands, who have absolutely no compunction about murdering the crew and sinking ships. The sea beds are, I gather, littered with ships that have been scuppered.

    In the case of our friend, his ships sustained several attacks over the years, but he now tends to work in the Caribbean which, believe it or not, is a relatively pirate-free zone!

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  • 8. At 09:05am on 09 Oct 2008, justfloating wrote:

    For pure evil piracy then the Caribbean beats the lot. But it is directed at smaller boats.

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  • 9. At 11:11am on 09 Oct 2008, Chris_Ghoti wrote:

    One of the things the Royal Navy is for, and spends a fair bit of time doing, is fighting against pirates. That and arms-smugglers, which is presumably what that boat that was seized by the Iranians a while ago was up to when its crew boarded and inspected a ship. What beats me is why the Iranians apparently didn't approve of arms-smugglers going to a different country and not from theirs being stopped from doing so...

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  • 10. At 11:18am on 09 Oct 2008, Big Sister wrote:

    Chris, didn't I read somewhere recently that the Royal Navy have been told not to detain pirates any more, in case they try to claim asylum?

    Sounds pretty daft, I know, but I'm sure that's what I read.

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  • 11. At 11:37am on 09 Oct 2008, justfloating wrote:

    From my experience the Royal Navy does not know what it is doing out there. I've met them 4 times, and 3 times they caused the problem. They are not set up to deal with fishing boats and individuals. My personal view is that on the 3 occurrences they behaved disgracefully.

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  • 12. At 11:39am on 09 Oct 2008, Big Sister wrote:

    justfloating: That sounds most intriguing and a possible story for iPM, perhaps?

    I'd ask you to give more details, but I guess it's probably quite personal so not suitable for the Blog.

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  • 13. At 12:22pm on 09 Oct 2008, justfloating wrote:

    Sorry, They know my views. I told them directly at the time. I am not one for holding back when endangered. However, I tried at all times to safeguard them, but got no recognition just a strange open radio conversation to placate me. Totally unprofessional. They knew who I was (launched a helicopter) but I was never contacted afterwards with an apology. All I want is that they wake up to how blind they are, not to endanger them more by giving particular details. I was therefore not surprised when they were taken hostage or the subsequent public story telling incident.

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  • 14. At 7:19pm on 15 Oct 2008, Chris_Ghoti wrote:

    Big Sister @ 10, as far as I know they are only supposed to arrest if people are in commission of a crime at the time, yes, rather than on suspicion that they may be about to commit a crime. That way the people they arrest are liable to be sent for trial, and probably won't be in a position to ask for asylum, since they will then either have been found guilty and put in prison, or found not guilty and sent to their home without the option. It seems a fairly silly directive, covering as it does something that isn't happening anyhow.

    justfloating, I'm sorry to hear that you don't approve of the Royal Navy being off Somalia and feel that they 'cause the problem', but I think that escorting food ships to prevent pirates from stealing them and killing their crews or holding them to ransom is perhaps a worthy activity, and I would suggest the the problems are caused by the pirates rather than by the RN?

    I declare an interest at this point, since those who listened to the six o'clock news may have caught the item about a British frigate and a NATO force in the area. I am extremely proud of my son, who is aboard that frigate, and I regard him and his ship as being a great deal more important in their protection of civilians from murder than I consider any civilian who may be temporarily inconvenienced by their presence, as opposed to permanently dead as a result of their absence.

    You mentioned the tsunami, by the way: my son was also in the Royal Navy vessel that was first to arrive and help after that, and I can promise you that the matelots of that crew were pretty well able to deal with individuals then: the individuals they cleared wells for, the members of the congregation at the services in the church they rebuilt, the patients in the hospital they sterilsed and got back into use, the owners of the fishing boats they got down out of the trees...

    Knock the Lords of the Admiralty all you like, and their paymasters at minidef who keep cutting their budget, but lay off the blokes at the sharp end, eh? They do what they can, and in general it's a lot better than most people's 'best'.

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  • 15. At 7:23pm on 15 Oct 2008, Big Sister wrote:

    Well, Chris, I'd never knock the Navy (I also have strong family links).

    Thanks for the clarification. And let's splice the mainbrace for our brave sailors!

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  • 16. At 9:51pm on 15 Oct 2008, Chris_Ghoti

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 17. At 11:01pm on 15 Oct 2008, Chris_Ghoti wrote:

    Oh dear.

    Moderators, 'pusser's' is the term for a sort of rum, otherwise known as 'The Purser's Tot' or 'The Purser's Rum', under which name it is actually bottled, I believe. References to 'pusser' or 'pusser's' are therefore the offer of a tot of rum, and nothing immoral or illegal, nor even especially fattening in moderation. If not moderated, they warm the cockles of the heart.

    *sigh*

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