Does this poem deserve to be axed?

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• 1. At 09:08am on 02 Sep 2008, Big Sister wrote:

  Looking at the few lines revealed on the iPM site, it strikes me that the poem isn't glorifying such crime, but attempting to enter into the perpetrator's mindset, and this (I believe) is not only an appropriate thing to study in the literary context, but is one of the key elements of good creative writing.
  
  It will be interesting to read what others think.

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• 2. At 09:11am on 02 Sep 2008, steelpulse wrote:

  When does thought and proper discussion restart in Great Britain Eddie?
  
  Everything is judge for its negative value - rather than thought provoking. Dame helen Mirren yesterday, the sailors in the picture or the poem.
  
  Perhaps you are too young to recall the days we were all told to chew every mouthful of food so many times before swallowing it - to help digestion presumably.
  
  Before wisdom - I did as I was told until I realised - hey some foods only need so many jaw movements before sliding down there.
  
  Beef steak maybe but Ian Hislop-like "Say I am a banana" lol

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• 3. At 09:23am on 02 Sep 2008, annasee wrote:

  I suppose they've really taken it out in case some youth, having committed a knife crime, might say in excuse "but I read about it in that Carol-Ann Duffy poem for GCSE. It made me do it. I blame the education system. It's not my fault."
  
  Because of course, most youths committing knife crime will have paid close attention to their English studies for GCSE, and will be able to recall relevant verses and author, and very likely provide a detailed critique of the work and its sub-texts.
  
  At least, that is presumably what the authorities who have pulped the anthology fear.
  
  
  

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• 4. At 09:34am on 02 Sep 2008, Big Sister wrote:

  I have found these study notes about the poem, which might interest others:
  
  http://www.eriding.net/amoore/anthology/carolannduffy.htm#educationforleisure

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• 5. At 09:48am on 02 Sep 2008, jonnie wrote:

  And then the bullhorn crackles
  And the captain crackles
  With the problems and the how's and why's
  And he can see no reasons
  Cos there are no reasons
  What reason do you need to die
  
  

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• 6. At 09:56am on 02 Sep 2008, Big Sister wrote:

  Eddie: I realise there may be copyright issues with this, but don't you think it will be helpful if the whole poem can be available?
  
  I've been 'searching' and it isn't easy to find the complete text online (though I confess I did eventually track it down).
  
  Having read it all, I can see it is both bleak and compelling, and a poem which would provoke immense (and productive) discussion in a classroom of adolescents. It is a very great pity that it's been withdrawn.

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• 7. At 10:15am on 02 Sep 2008, Molly wrote:

  Having read the few lines supplied, I can see that the publishers have made a decision on the side of caution and I think it is probably wise.
  
  The problem of knife crime including the difficult job schools have in detecting knives brought into schools by students is so relevant today.Any possibility that the poem might be misinterpreted by just one youngster should, I feel, be avoided.
  
  Obviously, not all schools are equally affected by this problem. It would be interesting to hear how teachers would feel about teaching around such an issue in a Literature syllabus .

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• 8. At 10:23am on 02 Sep 2008, Sid wrote:

  I'm with Big Sis on this one. It seems to me that issues like those addressed in this poem (alienation, powerlessness, delusion) can be discussed or ignored. If we ignore them, will they go away? If we discuss them will they go away? I'd have thought that a potential protagonist in a poem like this would more likely be able to take control of his/her life if they have been able to explore these issues under adult guidance.
  
  We have a long history in this country of thinking that if we don't talk about things, they'll go away. Which is why we have the highest teenage pregnancy rate in Europe. Why don't we talk about knife crime and sex in schools? Because talking about it might make people go and do it. The fact that the evidence points the other way we discard.
  
  
  

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• 9. At 10:25am on 02 Sep 2008, Big Sister wrote:

  Molly, if you read the whole poem, it is about a lot more than knife crime. It is about a solitary individual who is on the dole, who feels ignored, and who wants to play God. It isn't about the gang culture at all. It's about mindless killing by somebody whose state of mind is clearly very disturbed.

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• 10. At 10:44am on 02 Sep 2008, mygloriousleader wrote:

  I think it is vital that this sort of work is discussed in the classroom TO avoid the topics in the poem NOT being confronted face on.

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• 11. At 10:44am on 02 Sep 2008, David_McNickle wrote:

  Does this question deserve to be axed?

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• 12. At 10:50am on 02 Sep 2008, U10783173 wrote:

  Did your question deserve to be asked?

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• 13. At 11:01am on 02 Sep 2008, David_McNickle wrote:

  TIH 12, Asked/axed, what's the difference?

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• 14. At 11:01am on 02 Sep 2008, eddiemair wrote:

  Big Sis (6) - valid point. We're working on it.

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• 15. At 11:14am on 02 Sep 2008, Sid wrote:

  If you search for "Today I am going to kill something. Anything." (with speech marks) you can find the complete text.
  
  
  

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• 16. At 11:25am on 02 Sep 2008, justfloating wrote:

  To put it in context
  
  From the AQA site exam question:
  
  "Compare how death or the threat of death is presented in the poems you have studied.
  
  Choose two poems from List A and two from List B.
  
  List A List B
  
  .Havisham. (Duffy) .On my first Sonne. (Jonson)
  
  .Education for Leisure. (Duffy) .The Laboratory. (Browning)
  
  .Hitcher. (Armitage) .The Man He Killed. (Hardy)
  
  .November. (Armitage) .My Last Duchess. (Browning)
  
  (36 marks)"
  
  The response on You tube:
  
  [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
  
  I think that says it all.

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• 17. At 11:27am on 02 Sep 2008, Molly wrote:

  Eddie-
  On ''youtube'' there's a version of the complete poem...
  
  Maybe you've seen it.
  
  Mollyxx

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• 18. At 11:40am on 02 Sep 2008, CarolineOfBrunswick wrote:

  Does AQA have an incinerator?
  
  I'm looking forward to iPM for once, and am expecting all contributions to be marked and graded - from A*
  
  "Candidates respond cogently to texts, giving sustained evidence of enthusiastic personal response and insight through the range of sophisticated interpretations supported by concise textual analysis and empathic understanding. Responses show flair and originality in communicating ideas through a range of appropriate forms. They show originality of analysis and interpretation when evaluating the social and historical settings of texts, their cultural contexts or the literary traditions on which they draw."
  
  to Unclassified
  
  "Candidates refer to the basic content of texts simply but with some understanding"
  
  (from AQA English Literature Specification A 2008, Coursework Mark Scheme)

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• 19. At 11:57am on 02 Sep 2008, justfloating wrote:

  16 only showed a exam question from the AQA about death.
  
  Then showed how it effects youngsters by a "tribute" to one of the other poems made on Youtube.
  
  It was to show the context of this poem in relation to others that children are studying. There was nothing from me just quotes and references.
  

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• 20. At 4:00pm on 02 Sep 2008, justfloating wrote:

  I was referring to the poem "Hitcher" (Armitage).

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• 21. At 12:25pm on 06 Sep 2008, Sid wrote:

  Interesting further developments:
  
  http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2008/sep/06/gcses.poetry.carol.ann.duffy
  
  
  

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