Wrong?
Should this road sign, warning drivers of elderly people ahead, be changed?
Age Concern thinks the motivation behind the sign is good but a reduced speed limit would be more helpful. Others argue that there should be a generic sign warning of vulnerable people ahead - whether they're children, older people or those with a disability.
What do you think?
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What utter piffle
Age Concern
a) get a sense of perspective
b) stop wasting the donations that you are given on publicity seeking stories like this that are more than likely to backfire
Its a sign that achieves what is required of it.
Should we change the School Crossing sign as it suggests all kids run accross the road, or perhaps Slippery road is an indictment of all car drivers?
What tosh
Grrr
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I always thought the sign was sweet....... Two people in the twilight of their years, still together
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I thought that sign meant 'Beware of Pickpockets'.
She's definitely after his wallet!
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Yes, it should be changed. I'm not keen where granny's hand is going.
Seriously: no, of course not. A generic sign cuts down on information; children crossing means "look out for below-car-roof-height bodies shooting out onto the road at high speed", elderly people crossing means "people who may have reduced reaction time and ability".
I heard someone earlier on the radio complain that the existing sign didn't depict elderly people as they are these days. But if you're a spry Sean-Connery-like 78 year old, you're not really the type of person the sign is warning about, so why worry?
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Does the average motorist pay any attention to these signs?
No.
If you want people to slow down on roads;
1) Get rid of stealth tax cameras both fixed and man in the van versions
2) Build choke systems into the roads.
3) Put mini roundabouts in.
4) Put pelican crossings in.
5) Reinstate public information films on the BBC in English mostly and other European languages occasionally.
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I agree with all of the above - but would like to see (yet another!) sign introduced, as an addition to the one above. It would be a depiction of a person on a mobility scooter, as some of the folk I've seen are a hazzard to themselves and other road-users!
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Oh well, now that there's a whole thread on this, I'll repost what I posted on the Pink Pussy Thread:
Road signs and the elderly:
!While, in general, I don't believe older people should be stigmatised, I personally feel that the current road sign has the merit of providing an immediate indication to the driver of a potential hazard ahead. I think Age Concern do a great job in many ways, but in this respect I believe Gordon Lishman to be wrong.!
And I'll add that I'm jolly glad to see that I'm not the only frogger who thinks so! :)
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If you're after a generic reduction in the speed limit wherever vulnerable groups are likely to be found, then why not reduce the existing 30mph to 20mph? It already exists in many streets. Back it up with speed humps and safety cameras.
Of course, none of that will serve the same purpose as the existing children crossing and elderly people signs, which warn of specific areas where you're more likely to encounter members of a vulnerable group than elsewhere.
The alternative approach would be to remove all signs and limits, and keep traffic and pedestrians at the same level. It's an approach which can work quite well in town centres, but would be more expensive, harder and probably less safe in the suburbs.
So, overall, keep the existing signs, accompanied by an info plate if necessary, e.g. "Playground" on the children crossing sign indicates they'll be crossing at all times of the day, not just 8-9am, 12-2pm, and 3-5pm on weekdays.
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Old and crotchety and using a stick that his wife would benefit from having. Now WHO could that couple be?
Talking of look alikes:
Tasha Danvers and Posh Spice
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Thunderbird (2)
I don't want to be sweet in the twilight years and I shan't wear a coat like that.
They look like Janet and John in their dotage.
Having said that, I think the sign conveys immediately its message to drivers.
I like the idea of one sign fo all ''vulnerable'' people.
Mollyxx
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mgl (5) I dispute your categorisation of cameras as "stealth tax" cameras. After all, it the motorist's choice what speed they drive at. If they drive above the speed limit, then they are breaking the law pure and simple. The law is clear on the consequences of such action. Or are you saying that people can chose which laws they want to abide by? Okay, let's allow burglars decide that the laws on thft don't apply to them...
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And could we also have a large sign next to this one, showing just how dangerous it is to ride a mobility scooter, on the road, without lights, without indicating were where you're going and without looking what's around you?
Could local authorities also attach those portable cardiac units you spoke of a few 'pms' ago to the back of the sign.
The young on scooters and elderly on mobility scooters scare the hell out of me, you just never know what they are going to do.
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Lower speed limits? The drivers ignoring the Old People sign will ignore the speed limits, and won't be aware of WHY they're there.
Generic signs? Children playing ball, and elderly taking a while to cross, are different sorts of hazard requiring different sorts of vigilance.
Besides which... how exactly does one depict ALL sorts of vulnerable persons? What 'vulnerable' categories would be included?
I know: why don't we just leave things as they are. If it ain't broke...
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Stephen (1).....spot on.
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I think that our older population has more of a sense of humour than this. Surely this isn't a PC issue? Have their been many complaints from the grey panthers? Really?
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Motorists need to look out for those old (or not so old) people who look a bit like those depicted on the sign. Those old people who do not look like this probably do not need looking out for more than the rest of the population.
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Having heard the item:
Isn't the main problem with the sign, one of:
Unlearning by not Doing.
You see a sign for a bend, and then you go round it. Or a roundabout, the same.
And for a school, you think 'It's term time, they may run out in the road'.
But that sign, I must have seen two thousand times, and I've never seen a couple struggling to cross the road 200 yards on.
So, it may signal sheltered accommodation, but ...
You get my point. I suspect it gets ignored by most motorists, but no one notices, 'cos there are never any dodders there to shake a stick at htem..
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I dont see why it should be changed .. i mean whats it goign to be instead ? ' warning old people crossing '' - If i where older i would find that as a sign more offensive . Motorist many not reconise the new signs and ponder upon what it was they just saw while missing a car on the other side of the road ... and why is it descrinating - i cant see how it is . cant people just leave the roads a alone?
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The sign depicts people who are frail, rather than eldery as far as I can see. So anyone (e.g. Age Concern) presuming that the sign depicts only eldery people is indulging in stereotyping. There is no need to beware eldery pedestrians, only frail ones.
Is it the silly season or something?
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Let's hope their donations drop and he get's fired as a result.
If this road sign is deaming then Age Concern is a demeaning name for a charity. Better change the name to Aged But Concerned You Won't Give Us Money.
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If OAPs are to be gainfully employed (and about time too), picking litter - then - surely there is already a suitable sign to warn boy racers of the risk they take to their vehicles' paintwork, a silhouetted figure depositing litter in a litter bin.
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What a lot of waffle the man from Age Concern spoke.
I'm over 60 but not yet 65 and not yet in my dotage, but I don't see the problem with that road sign. It's easily recognisable which is what it is supposed to be.
Age Concern should be concentrating on more important things.
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The old lady's hand does seem to be plunged into the, er, back pocket area of the old gentleman's trousers. Being silhouettes,I'm not sure whether he is indeed wearing trousers. What message does this convey to our senior citizens?
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Any (normal) person is vulnerable to injury, if hit by a motor vehicle travelling at 10mph or above. Maybe the replacement sign should be a stylised "S" on a blue background to show areas where only superhuman people will be found. In the absence of such a sign, it will be the responsibility of drivers to take care not to hit people; be they "elderly", "a child" or "normal". But that will need drivers to take responsibility, and so is unlikely to happen.
H.
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The signs indicates Frail persons. I have today been in the presence of a very active 80 year old and a frail 65 year old!
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Sorry, that speedbumps idea for slowing down cars in areas where the elderly and infirm abound may not be a good solution to the problem. Speedbumps horribly reduce the efficiency of ambulance crews trying to save the lives of just those elderly and infirm patients being taken to hospital as fast as possible but needing treatment on the way. An infibulator for example is hard enough to get fixed without sudden 'bang wallop' as the ambulance goes over a large bump in the road and the whole apparatus goes all over the back of the wagon, crew member and all.
I've heard trained medical crew blaspheming horribly about speedbumps having in their view caused a DOA whom they are sure would have survived on a smooth road that allowed them to start the procedures needed before the hospital was reached.
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Chris (26):
That's a very good point. Speedbumps should immediately be scrapped for that reason alone.
What we really need is to improve the quality of driving, so I propose that drivers be treated like anyone operating any other heavy, dangerous machinery and be tested very regularly by examiner who aren't afraid to ban people who don't measure up.
There is no "right to drive" and people who do drive should expect to be held to an extremely high standard of proficiency.
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The story is based on INCORRECT information. The Age Concern spokesperson should ensure they understannd the subject before they make a comment in public. If the spokesperson holds a driving licence it is even more worrying. The sign has nothing to do with age. The Highway Code states 'Frail (or blind or disabled if shown) pedestrians likely to cross road ahead. What has that to do with describing 'elderly persons' We can be frail at any age!!!
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If money were no object, a new sign could read: "Caution - senior citizens". But as any change will be so expensive, let's just leave the blooming thing as it is, for goodness' sake. I bet there aren't many elderly people who really take exception - it's only a drawing, after all.
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Don't forget, OldBag, that reading words slows reactions - the symbol is better in every way. And, if you're a non-English speaker, the symbol is the only way.
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29
Hey, Fifi, love the new pseudonym!
Am I right? Or is it EddieReally?
No? Then it must be DMcN.
(Laughs all the way to changing my name to RealDrag).
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SSC @ 27, I suspect that more people die as a result of cars being in the control (or lack of it) of the incompetent/dangerous than die of guns in the control etc.
Any method of checking a driver's competence *before* they cause damage to others or to themselves would be good.
My favourite was in an SF story: in order to get the key into the ignition, you had to key in a 'password' of at least ten random figures not of your own original choice (so no mothers' birthdays and such) -- if you couldn't, the car wouldn't start. The kicker was that if you tried three times in a row within a certain time and failed, it killed you (I forget the method, but messily). For some reason, in this imaginery society driving while drunk or drugged was extremely rare...
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I think we need a symbol to go along the 'Heavy Plant Crossing' sign.
Anyone remember what triffids look like?
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Yes - good point, Big Sister. "Caution - senior citizens" would indeed be a problem for some; I should have thought more carefully before posting my idea, and I stand corrected! X
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