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English national anthem.

Eddie Mair | 11:38 UK time, Monday, 23 April 2007

On this St George's Day, we're toying with an item for the programme tonight about whether England needs an anthem of its own - as opposed to God Save The Queen which is the UK anthem. We'll try to post some tunes here later. In the meantime, although we're assured the Blog will never revert to September again, the news came too late for this item which just came in the mail....

blot.JPG

Comments

  1. At 11:59 AM on 23 Apr 2007, Big Sister wrote:

    PM Blot! Good one, Franz Lieber.

  2. At 12:23 PM on 23 Apr 2007, Frances O wrote:

    Excellent blot.

    Are we to say what we think it looks like and reveal our inner secrets?

    As for an English National Anthem, hasn't this rather been done to death on several other programmes, including, perhaps, the Today prog?

    However, whatever keeps the programme on air. Jerusalem, anyone? With optional jam.

  3. At 12:33 PM on 23 Apr 2007, jonnie wrote:

    It's nice to see all the journalists gathered in Islamabid in support of Alan Johnston.

    Report on News 24 from Damian Grammaticus.

  4. At 12:35 PM on 23 Apr 2007, Simon Worrall wrote:

    Ohmigod. That blot, it's a camel break-dancing!

    Si.

  5. At 12:37 PM on 23 Apr 2007, Belinda wrote:

    It looks like a mangy dog's head to me (snout to the left).

  6. At 01:09 PM on 23 Apr 2007, Stewart M wrote:

    Theme tune to The Archers. No words to remember just a few dun de dums!

  7. At 01:16 PM on 23 Apr 2007, witchiwoman wrote:

    Blot - thats art surely?

    As for anthem, I think we need a new one full stop. Something about the country and its people, something national as opposed to something glorifying a herditary monarch. Not sure about Jerusalem...haven't we got a musical figurehead that could write something new - specfically designed for purpose?

    Oh, I think I nearly ranted best go!

  8. At 01:18 PM on 23 Apr 2007, Aperitif wrote:

    It's beardy bloke being thumped (fist to the left, face on the right). Do i win a prize?

  9. At 01:27 PM on 23 Apr 2007, Stephen, Leader of STROP wrote:

    given that the combination of forum and blogger gave "frogger", I fear we should stay away from the blot.

    For those who are uncertain why, here is urban dictionary's definition of the resulting term!

  10. At 01:30 PM on 23 Apr 2007, Perky wrote:

    I always think the UK national anthem is a bit grim, and I'm always envious of opposing teams' anthems in the 6 Nations Rugby competition. I usually sing along with "Flower of Scotland", which always makes me feel much better.

    The trouble is - and I think this is a wider debate - that the English simply aren't as good at getting up and singing along as the other countries that make up the UK are - somewhere along the line, we've lost that part of our heritage, and so we're stiff-upper-lipped and downright embarrassed about singing anything at all.

  11. At 02:07 PM on 23 Apr 2007, Chrissie the Trekkie wrote:

    Not interested in an English national anthem, although I suppose we could aways borrow Ode to Joy now Europe no longer wants it.....
    Then again Jerusalem does quite nicely for me.

    Very happy to swap that nasty Communist May day bank holiday for St George's day though. I love fixed date holidays that wander through the weeks creating havoc!

  12. At 02:12 PM on 23 Apr 2007, Aperitif wrote:

    Message from the Naughty Corner for Stephen, Leader of STROP "Come on over, we're budging up..." :-)

  13. At 02:15 PM on 23 Apr 2007, David wrote:

    Anything, anything; as long as it does not mention King, Queen, Prince, Princess or Lady Di.

  14. At 02:19 PM on 23 Apr 2007, Frances O wrote:

    Figgle, Stehen. How's life on Pluto?

  15. At 02:21 PM on 23 Apr 2007, Val P wrote:

    Stephen - hail Leader - thanks for sharing that with us. After that, perhaps, I shouldn't bother saying what the blot looks like to me. If you view it upside down though, and readjust bifocals to compensate, the blot looks like one of the Shoe People. Remember them?

    Somebody, please tell me to get back to work....

  16. At 02:26 PM on 23 Apr 2007, Roberto Carlos Alvarez-Galloso,CPUR wrote:

    Good Luck on the segment of the English National Anthem.
    But you should continue to do segments to get Alan Johnston released.
    Also, there should be a segment on Chavez attempting to close RCTV [Venezuela], Castro repressing dissidents [Cuba], Republicans/Democrats blocking Libertarians and Greens in US Elections.

  17. At 02:31 PM on 23 Apr 2007, Humph wrote:

    Appy (8) I did not realise that you took a photo when you hit me on comment 14 of Pip removal. And no you should not get a prize. Rewarding violence just sends the wrong type of signal.

    H.

  18. At 03:04 PM on 23 Apr 2007, James wrote:

    Eddie,

    Will you revert to September around September time or will you skip it and go straight on to October?

    Regarding an English anthem, maybe something by Elgar. I quite like the Nimrod section of the Enigma Variations. Some suitable words could be written to reflect whatever it means to be English.

  19. At 03:16 PM on 23 Apr 2007, Frances O wrote:

    I meant giggle, Stephen. But I quite like 'figgle'

  20. At 03:28 PM on 23 Apr 2007, The Stainless Steel Cat wrote:

    "Jerusalem"?

    Your Patron Saint (how very mediaeval!) is Turkish, and now you want an anthem about a foreign city that has blog-all to do with England?


    A version of the Archers theme would work well:

    "We hate the French,
    We hate the Dutch,
    We hate the bloody Germans,
    We hate the Spanish, Greeks and Turks,
    We hate Australians too,
    Yanks annoy us, the Japs employ us, the Scots are too close by half,
    We wish they all would go away, the rest of the world's just naff!"

    (Have we done this before? I'm getting deja vu again)

  21. At 03:30 PM on 23 Apr 2007, Eamo wrote:

    Agree with David (13) - I think we should proclaim our loyalty to the country, not its unelected head of state. Vive la republique! (Sorry, came over all French elections there...must be time for my medication.)

  22. At 03:32 PM on 23 Apr 2007, Nathan deGargoyle wrote:

    The blot is obviously a rather scruffy wren (England's most common bird?

  23. At 04:10 PM on 23 Apr 2007, Mark Elliott wrote:

    I think Jerusalem is a great choice - an Anthem about building a better world, about improving the lot of all those who dwell in our "green and pleasant land". What could be more appropriate?

    Having said that, “God Save the Queen” would be a lot more palatable if we returned the tune to its folksong routes. It's always sung at such a dirge-like pace that everyone's lost the will to live by the time we get to the end of the first verse. It needs to be done at 3 times the speed. That way it becomes a nice jolly little waltz, rather than the funeral march we usually hear.

  24. At 04:12 PM on 23 Apr 2007, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    SSC (20,
    How about substituting thus:
    We're better than the French,
    We're better than the Dutch,
    We're better than the bloody Germans,
    We're better than the Spanish, Greeks and Turks,
    We're better than Australians too,
    ...
    and you should fit the Welsh in somewhere.
    ;-)
    ed

  25. At 04:20 PM on 23 Apr 2007, Annasee wrote:

    SSCat (congratulations by the way on your extra working hours- that is what it meant, isn't it?) I LOVE that National anthem. Brilliant. It would also make a good football song, surely. Isn't there a second verse? You haven't quite insulted everybody yet.

    Re the ink blot. Now I'm really worried there's something dreadfully wrong with me. I looked at it & saw - well, just an ink blot. Try as I might, there's nothing else.

    However, I'm just making mousetraps (you know - bread spread with chutney & cheese, baked in the oven till it goes crispy) & I see the grated cheese on one has formed itself into the very image of Boris Yeltsin's head. Spooky.

  26. At 04:33 PM on 23 Apr 2007, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Or:
    We tolerate the French,
    We tolerate the Dutch,
    We tolerate the bloody Germans,
    We tolerate the Spanish, Greeks and Turks,
    We tolerate Australians too,

    At condescending we're the best,
    As Welsh and Scots will know,
    It's such a pity what was lost,
    When we let the Empire go...

  27. At 04:52 PM on 23 Apr 2007, witchiwoman wrote:

    Annasee - never heard of mousetraps but they sound fab...definite beach fare!

  28. At 05:34 PM on 23 Apr 2007, Aperitif wrote:

    Val P (15) GET BACK TO WORK!*

    Humph (17), if that is a photo of my fist and you I am very worried! Anyway, I didn't really hit you; I went to give you a hug and I slipped... *looks at the sky and whistles*

    SSCat (20) Hahahaha!

    *Um, that goes for me too.

  29. At 05:48 PM on 23 Apr 2007, VT Thinblot wrote:

    I don't believe in God and I'm not in favour or the monarchy, so I don't exactly identify with the current anthem, whether it's attached to England or the UK.

    Musically speaking, national anthems tend to be mediocre at best, and many are among the worst pieces of music you're ever likely to hear. Furthermore, they appeal to the worst gung ho instincts of the least thoughtful members of society.

    Surely international sportsmen aren't so lacking in motivation that they need an awful tune to gee them up before a match? If we must have one, I vote for the Laurel and Hardy theme. At least it would show we have a sense of humour.

  30. At 05:50 PM on 23 Apr 2007, The Stainless Steel Cat wrote:

    Ed (24):

    Ah, but that would be crossing into the territory of the wonderful Flanders and Swan, and I'm not fit to wallow in their (glorious) mud:

    "The English:

    The rottenest bits of these islands of ours
    We've left in the hands of three unfriendly powers
    Examine the Irishman, Welshman or Scot
    You'll find he's a stinker as likely as not

    The English, the English, the English are best
    I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest..."

  31. At 06:04 PM on 23 Apr 2007, Anne Rayer wrote:

    Absolutely agree that we need a change of National Anthem; it is long overdue. We could still keep God Save Our Queen for certain royal occasions.

    Happy with Jerusalem or I Vow to Thee My Country. Both have the most beautiful, melodic and emotive tunes, unlike God Save Our Queen.


  32. At 06:11 PM on 23 Apr 2007, Boldlygone wrote:

    A new english anthem ah? Well I'm all in favour of adopting a great existing tune English.
    here are some options:

    The Doctor Who Theme.
    England Swings like a pendulum do.
    The Chicken Song from Spitting Image - altogether now - Throooooow a chicken in the air, stick a deckchair up your nose.......
    Anything by the Beatles.
    Move It by CLIFF RICHARD.

  33. At 06:24 PM on 23 Apr 2007, David wrote:

    I am dismayed by such continuing debate, which plays into the hands of those in Scotland in particular, who want to break the Union. There is not an English anthem because in the past we have not needed one - has not nationalism always been the last refuge of the scoundrel? Yes I am English, and home was Staffordshire, but my identity is primarilly British, - and my family background includes a great proportion from Ireland Scotland and Wales, If most Scots want to place their Scots identity first, - if they do- fine -( I wouldn't mind if they used 'God Save the Queen' though) but why should I have to do the same? - we actually are 'family'. If 'They' decide there has to be an 'English' anthem let it be 'Jerusalem'- even though archaic at least it strives to make our local bit of the world a better place, is not boastful or pouring ridicule on others. PS what do we do about cricket, - the England and Wales cricket board?

  34. At 06:38 PM on 23 Apr 2007, Anne Rayer wrote:

    Absolutely agree that we need a change of National Anthem; it is long overdue. We could still keep God Save Our Queen for certain royal occasions.

    Happy with Jerusalem or I Vow to Thee My Country. Both have the most beautiful, melodic and emotive tunes, unlike God Save Our Queen.


  35. At 06:48 PM on 23 Apr 2007, Frances O wrote:

    Just thought I'd drop this into the pool:

    God Save the King/Queen was originally a Jacobite song, but got recycled by the other side

    (stands back to see if there are any ripples)

  36. At 07:05 PM on 23 Apr 2007, John Wedgwood Pound wrote:

    Re: English National Anthem - please take care to be correct, bot the Lib Dem MP and the Presenter referred to "God Save the Queen" as the UK National Anthem - it is not, it is the "Royal Anthem" - which Canada, Australia etc. have equal right to use. We do in fact need a British National Anthem, and an English Anthem in addition tot he Royal Anthem. My vote would be : "There will always be an an England."

    Thank you.

  37. At 07:09 PM on 23 Apr 2007, David Hall wrote:

    I am very much in favour of an English National Anthem for all the reasons cited by Greg Mulholland. My preference would be “There’ll always be an England” or some other tune with which everybody is familiar and can therefore instantly relate to. A new anthem written specially would have to be exceptionally outstanding and inspirational to gain immediate acceptance which would be necessary for it to have the desired appeal.

    Whilst on the subject I firmly believe that the current national anthem is well past its sell by date. The tune is boring and the words are uninspiring. In today’s world the anthem should be about such things as culture, history landscape and beliefs. It should not be about the monarch however much they are revered. Perhaps you would like to take up the baton for a new UK Anthem also? You would certainly have my support.

  38. At 07:10 PM on 23 Apr 2007, David Hall wrote:

    I am very much in favour of an English National Anthem for all the reasons you cited by Greg Mulhooland. My preference would be “There’ll always be an England” or some other tune with which everybody is familiar and can therefore instantly relate to. A new anthem written specially would have to be exceptionally outstanding and inspirational to gain immediate acceptance which would be necessary for it to have the desired appeal.

    Whilst on the subject I firmly believe that the current national anthem is well past its sell by date. The tune is boring and the words are uninspiring. In today’s world the anthem should be about such things as culture, history landscape and beliefs. It should not be about the monarch however much they are revered. Perhaps you would like to take up the baton for a new UK Anthem also? You would certainly have my support.

  39. At 07:27 PM on 23 Apr 2007, Humph wrote:

    Can we just review that for a moment, Appy (28)? You catch me with a smart left hook. You claim that you "didn't really hit" me. You leave me with a broken and bloody nose. And you say that YOU are very worried?!? Please remind me not to be in the area whenever you want to slice salami. By the way, would the tune that you were whistling make a good National Anthem?

    On the subject of a National Anthem, I have to say that the F&S song would get my vote, SSC (30). Especially considering the last verse:

    And all the world over, each nation's the same.
    They've simply no notion of playing the game.
    They argue with umpires. They cheer when they've won.
    And they practice beforehand which ruins the fun.

    As one of the reasons given for the introduction of an "English" national anthem is so that we have something to sing before sporting events I think this would set the tone nicely.

    H.

  40. At 08:08 PM on 23 Apr 2007, The Stainless Steel Cat wrote:

    More votes for "Jerusalem".The thing is, unless you're a bit loony like Willy Blake was, the song should really run thusly:

    "And did those feet in ancient time,
    Walk upon England's mountains green?
    No, they didn't."

    That'd be a bit short.

    I second Humph's entirely logical proposition of the Flanders & Swan song.

  41. At 08:18 PM on 23 Apr 2007, Dermot Flaherty wrote:

    Billy Connolly supplied the answer a number of years ago (albeit as a National Anthem replacement) and that is the tune to "The Archers" with the words being simply "Rum te tum te tum te tum" etc. He pointed out that it had the twin merits of being a lot livelier than "God Save the Queen" as well having easily-remembered lyrics. I can already hear the crowd at an England-France fixture; the Marseillaise at one end being countered by a lusty "Rum te tum te tum te tum" at the other.

  42. At 09:20 PM on 23 Apr 2007, Aperitif wrote:

    Humph (39) "Please remind me not to be in the area whenever you want to slice salami." Priceless! Hahahaha! :-)

  43. At 09:44 PM on 23 Apr 2007, Annasee wrote:

    What about "Always look on the Bright Side of Life"?

    Great tune, cheerful words.

    What's that you say? Someone's already used it? When? Who? Surely no-one would be so cheeky...

  44. At 10:24 PM on 23 Apr 2007, Alan H wrote:

    At 03.04 James suggested something by Elgar for an English National Anthem. The following is one of his works although I don't know who wrote the words.
    I learned it at school in 1943 or thereabouts.

    It comes from the misty ages
    The banner of Englands might
    The blood red cross of the brave St George
    That burns on a field of white
    It speaks of the deathless heroes
    On fames white page enscrolled
    And bids great England
    And bids great England ne'er forget those glorious deeds of old

    O ne'er may the flag beloved
    unfurl in a strife unblessed
    Ever give strength to the righteous arm
    And hope to the ??? to the ??? opressed
    It says to the ??? (ages)
    Be brave be brave like the soldier saint
    like the soldier saint whose cross of red still burns on our banner white

    I believe there is another verse.
    I wager that its new to nearly all readers

  45. At 11:17 PM on 23 Apr 2007, suzeemoon wrote:

    Whoops! I was just looking for info on the English National Anthem when I fell into the glass box Eddie 's been mentioning...[looks around] Nice place you've got here...


    Lazybugg's a bit upset with the Welsh because the school her son attends were not impressed with his 'Made in England' shirt. I've told her about the English anthem campaign and directed her here....


    Moderation? Cowards!


    [Suzee wanders off trying not to get too excited at Eddie Mair's name and wonders if the moderators are very strict, or (sharp intake of breath) whether Mr. Mair is a moderator himself....]

  46. At 12:28 AM on 24 Apr 2007, Aperitif wrote:

    Ah but this is not the Glass Box Suzeemoon. But you're close. :-)

  47. At 08:44 AM on 24 Apr 2007, Delores Behan-Ingland (Mrs) wrote:

    Eddie,

    I think Rose of England should be given due consideration for the English national anthem.

    This is the refrain...

    Rose of England, thou shalt fade not here,
    Proud and bright from rolling year to year.
    Red shall thy petals be as rich wine untold
    Shed by thy warriors who served thee of old.
    Rose of England, breathing England's air,
    Flower of Chivalry beyond compare;
    While hand and heart endure to cherish thy prime,
    Thou shalt blossom to the end of Time.

    Trouble is. It was written by a Welshman. :-(

  48. At 09:00 AM on 24 Apr 2007, Big Sister wrote:

    Okay, all this national anthem stuff, lyrics, etc., has reminded me of something I read as a child while living abroad.

    Scene: Classroom in a Primary School, Durban

    An avid reader, I'd found in the book cupboard entitled "Where the Rainbow Ends", by Clifford Mills, a very Edwardian children's book. [I have only just found out, by doing a search on this, that it was originally a play written to be acted on St. George's Day - so, how very appropriate!]

    I won't bore you about the story - indeed, I can hardly remember it - but it included a poem which, as a small child far from home, gave me a lot of comfort. I hope I can remember all the words and will try to post in a mo.

  49. At 09:51 AM on 24 Apr 2007, The Stainless Steel Cat wrote:

    While we're on the subject, I think Scotland's dreadful anthm should have it's words changed to the (I think) Ronnie Barker version:

    "Land where the hands are clapping,
    Land where the toes are tapping,
    Land where the Jocks are strapping,
    Scotland the brave..."

  50. At 12:12 PM on 24 Apr 2007, Gillian wrote:

    David (33) re your point about nationalism being the last refuge of the scoundrel:

    I would argue that nationalism is a refuge for those who feel under threat from other nations. England has not had the same need to assert its distinctiveness like Scotland, Ireland and Wales have. After all, it is not England which wants to tear itself away from another dominant nation.
    I am sure that if fears about European federalism increase, then so will English patriotic fervour.

  51. At 12:13 PM on 24 Apr 2007, Aperitif wrote:

    Is this a safe point to admit that:

    a) I don't know the words to 'Scotland the Brave'?

    b) I can't abide 'Jerusalem'?

    c) I think 'Ernie, the Fastest Milkman in the West' is a better contender than anything mentioned thus far?

    A, x.

  52. At 01:06 PM on 24 Apr 2007, Big Sister wrote:

    Tried to post this earlier and it didn't appear. You're probably all gasping to read it (!)

    This is what I can remember of the poem by Clifford Mills
    ------------------------------------------------------
    From “Where the Rainbow Ends” by Clifford Mills

    Child of the Empire where ere you may roam
    This is a message that comes from your home
    Those little grey islands washed by the North Sea
    Where the flag of Great Britain rides out on the breeze.

    Near or away, afar or beyond
    A Briton’s word is a Briton’s bond
    He cannot be bought and he cannot be sold
    There ne’er shall be truth held second to gold.

    Small are the isles that encradled your race
    Mighty the Empire in which you have place
    Seek here in this message which made Britain great
    And keep faith with your fathers, whatever your fate

    Carry on! Carry on! Carry on!
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Well, I was only seven and very homesick. But it did help me to cope as a stranger in a foreign country, and obviously meant a lot to me at the time for me to be able to remember that much of it even now.

  53. At 01:07 PM on 24 Apr 2007, RJD wrote:

    As an outsider in this debate I can only say that I think that Ap (51) has come up with a splendid suggestion. I mean who can possibly forget those lyrics:

    Now Ernie had a rival
    An evil looking man
    Called Two Ton Ted from Teddington
    And he drove the bakers van
    He tempted her with his treacle tarts
    And his tasty wholemeal bread
    And when she saw the size
    Of his hot meat pies
    It very near turned her head
    She nearly swooned at his macaroon
    And he said now if you treat me right
    You'll have hot rolls evry morning
    And crumpets every night
    He knew once she'd sampled his layer cake
    He'd have his wicked way
    And all Ernie had to offer
    Was a pint of milk a day
    Poor Ernie (Ernie)
    And he drove the fastest milkcart in the west

  54. At 01:24 PM on 24 Apr 2007, Big Sister wrote:

    RJD:

    What if you don't drink milk?

    BTW, I'm most surprised at Appy suggesting this, being (as it was) David Cameron's choice on his Desert Island.

    Have you changed sides? ;o)

  55. At 01:44 PM on 24 Apr 2007, Val P wrote:

    RJD - so, I take it you remembered that one off by heart too did you? Takes all sorts ;-)

  56. At 01:45 PM on 24 Apr 2007, RJD wrote:

    Big Sis (54) - Look, you don't have to DRINK the milk!

    She said she'd like to bathe in milk
    He said alright sweetheart
    And when he finished work one night
    He loaded up the cart
    He said you wanted pasturised
    Coz pasturised is best
    She says Ernie I'll be happy
    If it comes up to me chest
    And that tickled old Ernie (Ernie)
    And he drove the fastest milkcart in the west

  57. At 02:08 PM on 24 Apr 2007, Big Sister wrote:

    It'd bring me out in a rash, RJD.

    How about this instead?

    Oh, I find much simple pleasure when I've had a tiring day
    In the bath, in the bath!
    Where the noise of gentle sponging seems to blend with my top A
    In the bath, in the bath!
    To the skirl of pipes vibrating in the boiler room below,
    I sing a pot-pourri of all the songs I used to know,
    And the water thunders in and gurgles down the overflow
    In the bath, in the bath!

    Then the loathing for my fellows rises steaming from my brain
    In the bath, in the bath!
    And condenseth to the Milk of Human Kindness once again
    In the bath, in the bath!
    Oh, the tingling of the scrubbing brush, the flannel's soft caress!
    To wield a lordly loofah is a joy I can't express.
    How truly is it spoken, one is next to Godliness
    In the bath, in the bath!

    Then there comes that dreadful moment when the water's running cold
    In the bath, in the bath!
    When the soap is lost forever and you're feeling tired and old
    In the bath, in the bath!
    It's time to pull the plug out, time to mop the bathroom floor.
    The towel is in the cupboard, and the cupboard is next door!
    It's started running hot! Let's have another hour or more
    In the bath, in the bath!

  58. At 02:36 PM on 24 Apr 2007, Humph wrote:

    I am not too sure if I am losing the thread here Big Sis (57) but is that meant as a suggestion for the replacement English National Anthem? I just feel that it might lack that certain something if you try to get tens of thousands of people singing it just before a rugby match.

    H.

  59. At 02:40 PM on 24 Apr 2007, RJD wrote:

    What about getting Eric Clapton to sing this one?

    A mother was washing her baby one night;
    The youngest of ten and a delicate mite.
    The mother was poor and the baby was thin;
    'Twas naught but a skeleton covered with skin.

    The mother turned 'round for a soap off the rack.
    She was only a moment but when she turned back
    Her baby had gone, and in anguish she cried,
    "Oh, where has my baby gone?" The angels replied:

    Oh, your baby has gone down the plug hole.
    Oh, your baby has gone down the plug.
    The poor little thing was so skinny and thin,
    He should have been washed in a jug, in a jug.

    Your baby is perfectly happy;
    He won't need a bath anymore.
    He's a-muckin' about with the angels above,
    Not lost but gone before.


  60. At 02:46 PM on 24 Apr 2007, witchiwoman wrote:

    Humph (58) really? I think it would sound great; almost as good as Maurice Sendaks 'Chicken Soup with Rice' (although not particularly patriotic it'd be great to here en masse)

  61. At 02:50 PM on 24 Apr 2007, Big Sister wrote:

    Humph: Can we agree that neither my, nor RJD/Appy's suggestions would work in a rugby match?

    No, as an English national anthem I'd probably plump for something like the first verse of I Vow to Thee My Country, on the grounds that it exists, covers the territory pretty well, and is melodic. It would sound well in a stadium, too.

    However, I think we'd have to ditch the second verse (There's another country, etc.) if we were going multicultural and didn't want to alienate those of no faith.

    Jerusalem is lovely, but goes a bit off the point. God Save the Queen is a bit tedious and plagiarised.

    I'll put my thinking cap on and see if I can come up with some 'sensible' suggestions.

  62. At 02:53 PM on 24 Apr 2007, suzeemoon wrote:

    This ISN'T the glass box? I thought it said it was - Now I'm really confused...


    [Suzee wanders off looking for the glass box trying to remember th words of 'Jerusalem' from her brief time as member of Radyr WI....]

  63. At 02:58 PM on 24 Apr 2007, Peggy wrote:

    Replacing the National Anthem - why not use Ivor Novello's 'Rose of England' which does not mention Scotland or Wales and is most appropriate in view of their promised impending devolution

  64. At 03:47 PM on 24 Apr 2007, Gillian wrote:

    Humph (58) But surely that's what all those hunky rugby men sing after the match?
    Or have they all got showers now?

  65. At 04:05 PM on 24 Apr 2007, Big Sister wrote:

    Good point, Gillian. 'In the Bath's back in contention.

    RJD: That suggestion's just silly. And it's thin-ist

  66. At 04:14 PM on 24 Apr 2007, The Stainless Steel Cat wrote:

    Aperitif (51):

    a) I don't know the words to 'Scotland the Brave'?

    That's OK, nor do I. Nor "Weed of Scotland".

    I can hum the theme to "Dr Finlay's Casebook", if that's any good.

  67. At 08:53 PM on 24 Apr 2007, Humph wrote:

    I am afraid I do not know about that, Gillian (64). Maybe you could look into it for us? I still say that the National Anthem is sung at the start of the event and so I maintain that this is not a suitable candidate. However, I am willing to let others have their opinion too.

    H.

  68. At 09:40 PM on 24 Apr 2007, Val P wrote:

    RJD(59) - I have a recording of him doing just that!

  69. At 10:22 PM on 24 Apr 2007, Aperitif wrote:

    Hahahaha Thank you all for the giggle! For the record "Ernie" being a better contender was my attempt at damning with faint praise, but what a marvellous tangent you've all gone off at! :-)

    Suzeemoon, the Glass Box thread has the worsd "Glass Box" in its title. But welcome to the rest of the blog/frog! :-)

  70. At 12:03 AM on 25 Apr 2007, suzeemoon wrote:

    Thanks, Aperitif - I think I get it now - The Glass Box is a blog entry in itself - not the actual blog? Geography was never my strong point and is no better in cyber! now wandering off to find out Tuesday's hot topics (Is this one of the places you have to stay on topic?)

  71. At 09:27 AM on 25 Apr 2007, RJD wrote:

    Big Sister (65) - "RJD: That suggestion's just silly."

    Thanks Big Sis - It's what I do! :o)

  72. At 09:36 AM on 25 Apr 2007, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Suszeemoon (70),

    "(Is this one of the places you have to stay on topic?)"

    Not likely!
    xx
    ed

  73. At 12:13 PM on 25 Apr 2007, Aperitif wrote:

    You got it Suzeemoon, but I echo Ed's "Not likely!"

    Just had a look at your blog via your link. Blimey! :-)

  74. At 12:24 PM on 25 Apr 2007, Big Sister wrote:

    Ah, yes, RJD, but I think you've missed the point .....

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