Europe's best shine in South Africa
How things have changed in barely a week. As the 16 teams lined up for the second round in South Africa, the debate was about why the European nations were struggling.
Now, with three teams from Europe in the semi-finals and the distinct possibility of an all-European final, the question appears to be: why are top European teams doing so well?
It's true that some European teams' campaigns have turned into farce, France and Italy being the most obvious examples.
I wouldn't be quite so damning about England even if they looked so grim against Germany. With Joachim Loew's men having also done a demolition job on Argentina, perhaps there is some solace that England were not the only team to be torn apart by Miroslav Klose and his mates.
Some of the so-called 'dark horses', including my own personal pick Serbia, have also failed to rise to the occasion.
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However, there can be no disputing that Germany, the Netherlands and Spain all deserve their places in the last four and will be worthy champions if they win the final next Sunday.
If there is one common theme that connects the teams - and that could point towards the overall success of the European teams - it is that they all play to a predetermined strategy - designed by the coaching staff - that requires discipline from the players.
It may not always be apparent because there are marvellous individual talents in all three of the squads but, nevertheless, they have been given a clearly established framework on the field within which to operate.
When Germany fell apart against Serbia it was because that discipline broke down, but Loew quickly repaired the damage.
Loew, Netherlands coach Bert van Marwijk and Spain coach Vicente del Bosque are all rightly admired for their tactical acumen and they have brought all their skills to the table in South Africa.
"There has to be some discipline and adherence to tactics, the whole team has to believe in it and for the most creative players this can be very difficult, but I believe the squad understands what I want," said Van Marwijk before the start of the World Cup.
"But I can't say that there is any fixed shape, it all depends on what the state of the game is, that's the key to modern football."
In the case of Loew and Del Bosque, they have also managed to do what England manager Fabio Capello could not: putting lacklustre opening group performances behind them, boosting morale and getting their players to concentrate on the task in hand.
None of the three European semi-final coaches have been guilty of descending into Maradona-esque naivety of just picking 11 men and telling them to enjoy themselves. They are coaches not cheerleaders.
It was all fun and fearless football when Argentina faced lesser mortals but Germany showed Maradona and the world that you cannot get away with that sort of game against the very best opponents.
Having reached this stage in the tournament, there doesn't appear to be any lack of confidence or uncertainty among any of the three remaining European teams, and there is also really nothing to lose despite the biggest prize in football being at stake.
Whatever happens in the coming week, all three of their respective tours of duty in South Africa will be considered a success and they can return home seated comfortably in business class and get off the plane with their heads held high.
I truly cannot see Uruguay upsetting the odds and winning a fairytale final.
Should the Netherlands and Germany face each other on Sunday; it will inevitably evoke memories of the 1974 final between the two teams which, even though it was not quite a classic, was still an intense encounter between the two fierce rivals.
If European champions Spain do triumph in Sunday's final, and of course I'll be rooting for them in Wednesday's semi-final, then it would be the first time that a country has lost their first game at a World Cup finals and then gone on to win.
Within Spain itself, there is the growing belief again, after the hiccup of their opening game against Switzerland, that they can win the World Cup.
For Spain's last two matches, I have been at a huge fan zone alongside Real Madrid's Santiago Bernabeu stadium where there have been about 50,000 euphoric supporters chanting 'campeones, campeones,' into the night despite there being two games remaining. This scene has been repeated all across the country.
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One well-known Spanish beer company is campaigning, with considerable support, for next Monday to be made a national holiday if Spain win.
To be honest, I'm not sure a campaign is actually necessary, as I think there will be rather a lot of people missing from work if David Villa and Andres Iniesta can continue to shine.
Germany will go into Wednesday's game without the suspended Thomas Mueller but Spain may finally make an unenforced change with the 'Fernando Torres dilemma' unresolved.
Spain have reached this stage of the World Cup with only 10-and-a-half men for 60 minutes or so of most of their games.
The majority of the Spanish media gave Torres the benefit of the doubt until they faced Portugal, believing like many people that he would gradually get better as the tournament progressed.
They have now turned vociferously against him, especially after Spain were transformed when he was hauled off against Portugal and Paraguay.
Fernando Llorente and Cesc Fabregas appear to be the two candidates to take his place after both impressed when they came on to replace Torres against Portugal and Paraguay respectively.
Personally, I would opt for the Arsenal player as he adds a creative dimension that Llorente doesn't seem to have despite his close-range skills.
However, I still have my doubts whether Del Bosque will change his preferred starting line-up at this late stage, which could deliver a crushing blow to Torres' confidence and that stubborn loyalty to the striker could be Spain's undoing against Germany.
Please keep sending other questions on European football that are not World Cup-related to europeanfootball@hotmail.co.uk.
Once the World Cup is over, I'll get back to covering issues and answering questions related especially to club football. I don't need your full address but please put the town/city and country where you come from.
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~13~RS~)
Hi, I'm Phil Minshull. I've lived in Spain since 1997 and covered Spanish football since the first day I got here. My blog aims to provide some insight into what's happening in La Liga, and there is much more to it than only Real and Barcelona, as well as elsewhere around Europe.
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Not sure about dropping Torres.
Fabregas has looked ineffective too.
And although Llorente looked lively against Portugal isnt he too inexperienced (in the WC) to face Germany in a semi final?
If I was del Bosque I'd give Torres a run out again. He could click and make all the difference.
I reckon we'll see him given at least the first half again.
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Not sure it's so much about discipline as it is about luck when it gets to the late stages. Netherlands, Uruguay and Spain got lucky, Brazil, Ghana and Paraguay didn't. Not wanting to take anything away from Germany who are the outstanding team of the tournament and should win it if everyone plays to current form. Everyone in Argentina knew they were walking a tight-rope with Maradonna at the helm, and many here could see their defense was weak so the German win didn't come as a surprise (albeit no one expected 4).
I'm not sure Holland will find it that easy against Uruguay, whose defending has been awesome although they're gonna be missing some key defenders tomorrow plus Suarez obviously. I think the Dutch might just bottle it this time and not turn up. My money is on penalties and Dutch out as the Uruguayan keeper really knows what he's doing.
I don't think Spain deserve this world cup based on their lack of actual penetration as could be seen against Paraguay, I think they will really struggle against Germany. Let's face it, they haven't played any of the big boys yet (that includes the over rated Portugal). I predict a German 1-0.
Germany will then go on to lift the trophy.
Anyway, let's pray for good footy regardless of who wins.
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Nice blog Phil. I think Del Bosque is too attached or loyal to Torres to drop him, maybe he will give him a 1st half run in and if he dissapoints, start of second half will see a change to that. The German team's display has really been impressive I must say, never thought I would say that about a German team. I still think Germany will win this semi final, though not by the 4 goal margin they are getting accustomed to of late!!!! Maybe 2:1 or 3:2. With the absence of Mueller, they have Kroos to come in who is also quite versatile. It should be an interesting encounter. I soooo badly want a Netherlands vs Germany final and the best man to win. Lets hope for a feast of football from now till the final.
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I agree that Torres should not start the game. He is obviously not at his best, and is holding the rest of the team back.
I feel that Spain can get the job done againt Germany. They will not be throwing caution to the wind and being caught out on the counter, as England did; neither will they be playing a totally unstructured game as Argentina did, and have proper defenders, rather than attackers posing as defenders. I believe that, after a fierce battle, Spain will begin to control the middle of the park with their natural passing game, and breach the German defence. England showed that they can be breached, despite not playing very well, scoring twice (even if only 1 counted). This is unlike Argentina, who all played as individuals, which is not the way to score against the very organised Germans.
Holland should have no major problems against Uruguay, although it will be a tough match - Uruguay have shown nothing if not a willingness to fight.
I see a Holland vs Spain final, for which my prediction is a 3-2 win to ... Spain.
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#1, Llorente has more experience, if not at international level then at club level, then quite a few of the Germany team that will play Spain...
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By all accounts I do think that it would be good if the winners of the WC is Spain or the Netherlands win it, due to it being a country that has never won it before.
One thing I cannot help thinking though is that no matter who wins the WC this year it will be remembered for being one of the most dull world cups in history, not for the passion or atmosphere but rather the standard of play and negative tactics of many teams. It now seems to me that all teams at all levels are afraid to actually try and play football and would rather score one goal and then defend their lead for the remainder of the game.
Although maybe as a Scotsman I should be used to disappointment!
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just a couple of weeks ago the thread was how South American teams were supreme over the rest of the world including Europe.
now its Europe.i wonder if Uruguay win the wc will you reverse this...again
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I still think South America teams perform in average above European teams
You're complety right about tactics and team effort. But the main thing is we put 4,5 places on world cup, we won the fifth on the field
All of them goes thru groups stage, four out of eight quaterfinals.
I know in general the biggest european teams play the same as the biggest european teams, but they still the same.
My question is Europe deserves 13 or 14 places? We i think deserves the 4 or 5
Awaiting your coments.
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I agree with #6. History will remember this WC as one of the poorest in footballing terms but that's hardly a surprise. Before a ball was kicked it was clear that so many of the 'big' teams had very poor squads by their normal standards.
France and Italy were completely lacking the big name stars of yesteryear. Brazil were a shadow of their great teams of the past and Argentina were disorganized, lacking any continuity and defensively weak. England had several key weaknesses in their squad and a terrible season of preparation.
Portugal's 'golden generation' had passed and Holland looked (as usual) useful but nothing special. Even Spain, many peoples favourites, haven't reached the heights.
Only Germany, who I felt were too inexperienced and lacking in quality, have excelled and deserve to win the competition.
The South Africans have delievered a good WC and brought lots of colour and passion but the standard on the pitch has not lived-up to that unfortunately.
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Spain have been very lucky and not played well. Their World Cup reminds me of a few - Italy's 4 years ago, or Argentina's in 1990, where after losing the first match unexpectedly, they scrapped through every other match, before losing in a horrendous final to Germany. Alternatively, one could compare them with 1994 Brazil - where to win the WC and bury the burden of 24 years of failure, was the only important and overriding matter in hand. If so, I hope they can then start to play with freedom and a more progressive style in the future.
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With due respect to Holland, Germany vs Spain could be the final. I think the match could go either way with both teams picking up momentum at approx the right time.
Over 90mins (maybe 120mins), sometimes mistakes: a handball, a foul in the box (e.g. Pique, vs Paraguay), a poor refereeing decision could prove decisive.
I'm looking forward to good football and great entertainment. And Torres could strike just like in Euro'08 after being quiet for a long while.
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#8, 6 European teams make the final 16 and you think their allotment should be 4 or 5? That's clearly ridiculous.
The problem for Europe isn't their 13 team quota, it's they way they go about selecting the teams: 9 group winners and 4 best runner ups. Under this system the random element of group drawing almost guarantees a mix of weak and strong groups, so a teams like Russia miss the WC after a single bad game after finishing 2nd in a tough group while Greece makes it in after a single good game after finishing 2nd in a much easier group.
There's no reason why the Faroe Islands, etc. should be competing in the final round of of qualification. They should winnow the teams down to about 4 groups of 6 with the top 3 qualifying and the 4th place finishers competing for the last spot. And groups should be drawn up based on a reasonable ranking system like the elo system, not the random drawing that's done currently.
In any event, the key should be to maximize the chance of the best 13 teams qualify, not 10 of the best 13 and three random teams that got a lucky draw.
The only continent with a worse qualifying procedure is Africa, and look how their teams did.
That said, I've always liked the cross-continent qualifying matches. FIFA should open the system up to get more of them.
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Quite enjoyed the fact that it ended up being 3 European teams purely to highlight that journalists were yet again just trying to find something to write about and overreact to.
Why not just instead acknowledge that it changes every world cup and very rarely reflects anything to do with the state of football in each continent?
13 European countries, all of a reasonable strength, entered the world cup. 5 entered from South America. What is the surprise if Europe has 3 of the semi finalists? There has been 3 European semi finalists in:
1974
1982
1986
1990
1994
1998
2006
So basically, this has happened in almost every world cup in recent times - where is the news??
Have to say this article is a bit laughable, just the complete opposite of the one that was published on BBC a couple of weeks ago - if Uruguay win the world cup now are we to expect yet another one about how South America rules the world??
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I can't believe people are still banging on about bad football and boring. Since the opening games in group have been finished, I have watched some incredible footie. It's not all about the goals you know. I love this world cup for the 'shocks' which were not really shocks. No shock to see france italy go home early. No shock to see Argentina hammered, slightly surprised Brazil were beaten and that Uruguay are still in it, and that Spain haven't really got out of 2nd or 3rd Gear due to Torres himself not getting out of gear either. I think the reasoning is play Torres for 70 mins until he catches fire but if he doesn't catch fire in the first half of the semi final of the world cup then he is not going to catch fire even if you cover him in petrol and throw lit matches at him.
I can't see the Dutch not getting to the Final, But I can't see Spain or Germany losing either, what a conundrum!
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Wordsofwisdom ain't hindsight wonderful?
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1. I'm sorry, I stopped reading this at the comment that England did not have as bad a tournament as France or Italy. What a joke that is. This time was probably England's best chance since 1990 and how the manager and squad coped was pathetic to say the least. The core of English football is rotting and your failure to pick up on this is a journalistic mistake.
How many years ago was Howard Wilkinson appointed technical director by the FA? This was the man who's main tactic at Leeds was to hold possession, pass it back to the keeper and then punt it to the oppositions box for the big Lee Chapman and kronies to do the rest!!! It was no coincidence that when the back pass was ruled out he retired from management. What could this guy ever have brought to the table for shaping the grass roots technical ability in the game during his tenure?!!
At this world cup England were a mess. Stuart Pearce should not be anywhere near the setup either as the guy has been found out a long time ago, as his technical and tactical knowledge of the game would fit the back of a postage stamp. When things don't go to plan he looks like a rabbit caught in headlights.
England fans were extremely optomistic before the USA game - summed up perfectly by Kevin Keegan, when he was asked for a prediction of the score, he said 4 - 1 England!!!!!
The FA will not learn from this failure of a WC campaign, not while the same people remain in place at the top. England never looked a team at any stage and with so many opposing characters in the squad it seems this trend will continue.
I was flabbergasted at a Jermanine Defoe interview were he said he took no part in recreation with the squad prefering to xbox and dvd alone in his hotel room!!!! Who was looking after comradery and team spirit!!? The Sun newspaper chose to mock the German team while on a safari together - AT LEAST THEY WERE TOGETHER and it works for them!! When the Germans arrived in South Africa they were a unit. England were Man Utds' Wayne Rooney and Chelsea stars John Terry and Frank Lampard. A divided bunch of multi millionaires who didn't like each other that much.
2. This WC is also the only tournament held in cold conditions and has suited the European teams much more than the South Americans. Name one WC held outside Europe were conditions were anywhere near as accommodating for European teams. You really think that in Brazilian heat in four years a European team will stand a chance?
3. Lastly Phil I would like to comment that many teams who adhered to strict team tactics are already out of this tournament. It is no coincidence that the three European teams left are also the best passing teams ( with the exception of Brazil ) we have seen this WC. The Spanish and Dutch teams are masters of the quick simple one touch passing game and the Germans far from shabby either. You also fail to make note of how well each of these teams work without the ball, especially the Spanish team who just seem to crowd out the opposition when they aren't in possession.
4. #6 and #9's comments - crazy! This has easily been one of the better WC's that I have watched since 1986. Do people not remember the poor poor quarter finals from Germany four years ago. Apart from a few group games and Denmark vs Japan in the last sixteen I have been intrigued and excited in equal measure at games this WC. The quarter final games had everything a football fan could possibly want. Yes big names haven't brought their A game and too many players carrying injury too and not too mention the now infamous Jubulani ball but I am sure we are going to see four more cracking games in this unpredictable and superb WC.
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spot on n° 13 SCL!
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It is always amusing to see how people (journalists and ordinary folk alike) want to see patterns where there aren’t any. A week ago everyone was raving about the South American teams. Italy, France and England had packed up in disgrace, and therefore there was supposed to be something wrong with ‘European’ football. And Uruguay, Paraguay and Chile had progressed from their groups alongside Brazil and Argentina, and suddenly everyone was certain that the World Cup was going to end up in South America.
But of course, Germany, Spain and the Netherlands were always there. And they were always serious contenders for the World Cup. And as it happened none of the South American teams had to face them until the quarter finals (with the exception of Chile vs Spain, which Spain won).
The disappointing performance of France, Italy and England was due to problems in the French, Italian and English camps. It had nothing to do with European football as such. And the draw just happened to allow the South American teams to go far, because none of them came across a really serious opponent until the later stages of the tournament. And when that finally happened, most of them fell at the first real hurdle.
And that is no criticism of South American football. Brazil, Argentina, Spain, Germany and Holland are all great teams, and when they play each other anything can happen. That has nothing to do with patterns in European or South American football. Things just happened to go the European way in the past few days. And if Uruguay end up winning the World Cup that last statement might turn out to be nonsense as well.
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Isn't this World Cup really going to be remembered for the teams who played as a team, and who were tactically more astute than their rivals? The South America / Europe debate is rather pointless, as it all revolves around 2 or 3 teams from each continent anyway. I for one am very impressed with the development of the German team undertaken by Loew, started by Klinnsmann and I hope they go on to win it. I wish that England would get their act together, but I am not optimistic that the FA, the PL or the Players can ever do so. No doubt we can all re-run these blogs in four years time in Brazil.
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I know in general the biggest european teams play the same as the biggest european teams, but they still the same.
My question is Europe deserves 13 or 14 places? We i think deserves the 4 or 5
Awaiting your coments.
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WTF!?!?!
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A Big Congratulations firstly to South Africa for hosting the world cup!!!
With the amount of negativity they received before the competition, about whether the country was safe, high prices, altitude blah, blah, blah, i think they really did themselves proud.
Since the first match until now, i don't think i read a single bad news report about the country, all i've read/seen is the amazing enthusiasm they have for the game!
Ironic how the only things mentioned most have been the bad performances of so called 'top teams' and the free thinking Jubilani ball, all external forces.
Every 4 years, i'm sure we'll always find something new to complain about, but thats the beauty of football... its unpredictability of small teams playing well, big teams failing to reach their peaks, good/bad coaches, refereeing decisions that don't make sense, goals that should or shouldn't have been, heroes and villains! The list goes on...
If everything was perfect and went according to script, that'd just be boring. So people need to just sit back and enjoy the world cup for what it is... not what it isn't :)
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For those complaining about the change of tack from a week or so ago, it was Tim Vickery who posted the blog on South America, and as everyone should know, knockout football will always change opinion in a single game, it's the nature of the beast.
Spain have yet to be tested by a top side so the game vs Germany will be time to prove they have what it takes to win this tournament. I have to disagree with you though Phil about Del Bosque. I fail to see his tactical acumen coming to the fore at all. This Spanish team, lets face it, is Barcelona, with as usual Xavi calling all the shots. If anything they have stumbled through to the semi final stage, looking short on ideas in comparison to usual and relying heavily on the class of David Villa to pull them through. If Paraguay had been able to keep some composure on the counter attack it could all have been very different.
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Errmmmm have you actually considered that Europe has 3 teams in the semis because of the laws of probability.....ie it has the highest number of representatives at the world cup and therefore you would expect this. The fact that it hasnt won every world cup means how hard S.America has had to work for it!
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I would drop Torres. He's unfit and out of form, and this has been the case all season long. I think the Llorente/Villa partnership should work just as well, with the big man upfront making space for Villa to do his thing. Although there are a couple of problems with this:
1. Llorente has virtually no experience at international level and so would be thrown in at the deep end, can he cut it? This is something that Del Bosque should be able to gauge much better that the rest of us but personally I've been very impressed with Llorente from the brief glimpses I've seen so far.
2. If you don't start Torres then what do you do with him? I think it would effectively end his World Cup because if you can't trust him to start the game there would be no point subbing him on to get you a goal, but the other options are definitely a gamble. Fabregas, Mata, Jesus Navas and Pedro all have no experience at this level and all of them would mean you have to change the system as none of them are "lead the line" strikers, so if Llorente has to come off then Villa will have to be pushed up top. Obviously it would be far from ideal to move the man who has scored 5 goals in 5 games out of the position which has proved so prosperous.
It's a tough one but I think the best option is to start Llorente. I'm a massive fan of Torres and believe he's truly world class, but not in his current condition.
2-1 to Spain
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Klautered - totally agree with this point, the Europe/South America divide isn't the most useful. Generally those teams who have been successful have been those with tactically astute coaches, rather than big-name players. Perhaps the best example of this is Argentina, whose performance against Germany was absolutely baffling, Maradona seemed to have completely lost the plot with the team he sent out. Joachim Low in the press-conference afterwards talked at length about the way that his German team exploited the Argentinian weaknesses, he clearly knows how to give a team both a coherent style of play and a game-plan tailored to their opposition.
Phil- are you surprised that, given the core of Barcelona players in the Spain side, they have not just used the 4-3-3 as Barcelona do? It would allow Xavi to play deeper where I feel he performs better, as well as providing them with some natural width which Villa and Torres seem to be attempting to do at the moment. Bringing on Fabregas against Paraguay might have made the difference, but I thought it would have been more effective to bring Jesus Navas on to provide width, and Llorente up front and moving to a 4-3-3. Currently their midfield is just a narrow square of central midfielders and it's unsurprising that they've struggled to break down more defensive teams.
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Brazil should have beaten Netherlands. Paraguay could have beaten Spain.
Argentina, for all the score line, could have beaten Germany. It remained 1-0 for a long while in that match during which time even the commentators were starting to ask whether Germany could hold out. Di Maria's shot, for instance, had the keeper beaten. And who's to say that if they'd conceded a goal they wouldn't have become badly rattled like they did against England?
A relatively small change in each of these three matches could have seen 4 South American semifinalists. Now that would have been a story.
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Can't believe people are doubting the Spainish. They destroyed the Europeans in 2008. The team hasnt peaked yet, Germany have.
If Germany fail to get the opening goal, its game over.
Their game is based upon scoring and counter attacking. Spainish are intelligent footballers, and have the experience throughout the team in a major final.
After all its vertially the same team that won Euro 2008.
Yet people are doubting them. They have played poorly and still won, they know they have to step it up.
I am sure of a Spainish win in the Semi probably 2-1 or 3-1.
Then in the final probably against the Dutch, it could be a draw and ET/Peno's.
xx
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I still think Germany will win the World Cup. Like Italy in 2006, nobody was expecting them to win before the tournament started. The team plays well as a cohesive unit, strengthened by effective individual skilful players: for Italy it was Pirlo and Cannavaro, for Germany it is Schweinsteiger, Ozil and Klose. It should not come as a surprise that European teams are doing so well, the Champions League is after all the best football competition in the world.
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27. At 10:29am on 06 Jul 2010, wildsnooker wrote:
I am sure of a Spainish win in the Semi probably 2-1 or 3-1.
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How much money have you put on it?
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I think the variety of articles written during this WC show how quickly momentum can swing between te teams. When Germany thrashed england i thought it was due to England`s inept naivety. They beat Argentina because argentina lined up with one holding midfielder and for forward thinking players absolved of defending(di maria,messi,tevez,higuain. Cambiasso & zanetti-told you so diego. I think the germans have just shown the basics of team play and followed it to the letter. I think spain/holland/uraguy will test them more substantially now. Due to Suarez being suspended and Uraguay having defensive absentees i can only see a Dutch win. But if it goes to pens my money will be on the south americans. As for spain, when Cesc came on for torres the game swung in their favour. Del Bosque has put in 2 holding mids this WC because he wasnt happy with their physical capacity. David Villa is in the form of his life and reminds me of Roberto Baggio dragging italy to the 1994 final.
To add to this, yes the opening round of group games were mainly disappointing low scoring affairs but since then the WC has been pretty good. the knock-out rounds of the last 2 tournaments have been very bad except for Brazil in 2002. I have really enjoyed several games(USA V GHANA,ENGLAND V GERMANY,ARGENTINA V MEXICO,BRAZIL V CHILE,HOLLAND V BRAZIL,GERMANY V ARGENTINA,URAGUAY V GHANA, AND PARAGUAY V SPAIN. All good stuff with more to hopefully follow.
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Agree with 16#
I havent really enjoyed a World Cup since 1986... ok 90 had its moments ( mainly thanks to Cameroon) and 94 with Brazil , but 98,02 and 06 were instantly forgettable.. the best part of 06 was watching Zidane's headbutt in an awful final. This world cup has been interesting because its dismissed the myth over all these "world class" superstars etc...dont get me wrong, I think messi,rooney and ronaldo etc are terrific players on their day, but just because they score 30 plus goals a season in their respective leagues, it doesnt mean they will set every major tournament alight! This world cup has shown that playing as a TEAM and not as individuals is the way forward ( as uraguay and ghana have shown to england, france and italy's embarrasement)..
Yes Spain posses some amazing talent like xavi,iniesta,villa etc but they play as a team, not like a bunch of strangers, same can be said of Germany and Holland.
Europe may be the dominant force in football again, I still expect Brazil to win in 2014, but England will have to wait a long long time before holding any trophy aloft, they play as individuals, not as a team, mentally very weak, too big headed and unwilling to follow orders from the coach...ie: schoolkids!
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Top european teams have not shone except germany...holland have not played v well and got quite lucky against brasil (who helped them by imploding), spain have been largely awful and been gifted some easy opposition (chile goalkeeper - thanks) and have won by very small margins...how you conclude that holland and spain have shone i dont know...perhaps you were watching replays of euro 2008?
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I agree with those who said that the unfancied South Americans eg. Uruguay, Chile and Paraguay..not so much Argentina and Brazil should be considered the teams who rose most to the occassion aswell as playing the majority of the decent football.
I think Spain's early loss to Switzerland and Germany's to Serbia proves that even the likely heavyweight winners (if it should be one of those) haven't been stand-out champions..although deserved none the less. Germany had the 10-men game against Oz, the Lampard goal against a woeful England, although granted an impressive destruction of a tactically inept Maradona side. Spain have basically done enough..so too Holland - so far.
I'd like to see Holland add their name to the honours list for the first time as Europe's first out of continent winners and given the location probably is appropriate in a way?
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I do not understand this notion that Spain have not played well. Ok they may not have been the free flowing Spain we are used to but they are stillwinning games, not conceding goals and might easily win the world cup.
They have had over 65% posession in every game they have played this world cup, they have the tournaments top scorer, they have successfully completed more passes than any other team and in Xavi they have the player with the most completed passes.
To me that does not seem like a team that has not played well.
They have an abundance of riches and dont they know it.
On the subject of Fabregas its funny how many of the English talk about their amazement that he does not play but lets be honest he is not as good as Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets or Alonso.
Spain to win the World Cup.
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Spain have got to drop Torres. I don't actually think he's done too badly, but the shape of the team is wrong with him in the side. Villa & Iniesta out wide will always come in and make the game too narrow, and to beat Germany they need to stretch the centre-backs.
Start with Pedro on the right, Villa in the middle and Iniesta coming in from the left. Pedro may be relatively inexperienced, but he's no less experienced than Muller, and the latter is proving to be one of the players of the tournament. It's a huge blow for Germany that he's not playing in this game.
If they're needing goals later in the game, having Fabregas & Torres on the bench as options isn't too bad, and maybe Fernando will be under less pressure coming on as a sub.
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Paul has just predicted Spain victory over Germany. I am looking forward to this match, and I go along with Paul's prediction on which team will win.
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Torres will play - even at 80% he will still be marked tightly by the oppo, creating space for the rest. He has the experience of the big stage and if we remember 2 years ago he was (admittedly more effective than in the World Cup) struggling infront of goal, then scored the tournament clincher against the Germans.
This is not a manager showing blind faith in someone like Heskey. This is a manager sticking with arguably the world's best striker as he comes back to full fitness.
Torres will play.
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If Torres is short of form and fitness and Llorente isnt top-quality, why not introduce David silva/pedro/navas go 4-5-1 and play iniesta closer to Villa?
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On the subject of Fabregas its funny how many of the English talk about their amazement that he does not play but lets be honest he is not as good as Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets or Alonso.
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No where near as good, I'm still not convinced what all the hype surrounding Fabregas is about. He's another Ribery, never looks anything like the player people rant and rave about.
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Apart from the fact that the spanish are "in" the semi-final, what makes anyone think they have a "cat in hells" chance of winning the World cup! The winning goal against Portugal was clearly offside and apart from an inspired David Villa, there has been no evidence that they are going to achieve there much "exagerated" potential. There is little difference between England and Spain besides a bit of "luck". To expect another 4 goals from Germany in the semi would be utopian, but a more than realistic 3-0 is well worth a bet!
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no. 39 Andrew I am not sure I agree with you. Fabregas has single handedly kept Arsenal amongst the top teams in the Premiership - I am not sure you could say the same about any of the others. No, this is not about how good La Liga is either!!
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@26. At 10:16am on 06 Jul 2010, indraneelan wrote:
Brazil should have beaten Netherlands. Paraguay could have beaten Spain.
Argentina, for all the score line, could have beaten Germany. It remained 1-0 for a long while in that match during which time even the commentators were starting to ask whether Germany could hold out. Di Maria's shot, for instance, had the keeper beaten. And who's to say that if they'd conceded a goal they wouldn't have become badly rattled like they did against England?
A relatively small change in each of these three matches could have seen 4 South American semifinalists. Now that would have been a story.
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Brazil lost their heads and their discipline after the dutch came out in force after the second half. Granted they got a lucky break with the goal but after that Brazil failed miserabely. Worthy champions would have risen above, competed and won. Paraguay had chances against Spain on the counter but ultimately lacked the composure to do anything and Spain should have been awarded a penalty from the re-taken penalty anyway.
Germany always looked comfortbale yes Argentina had lots of possesion because Germany allowed them too, and yes Di Maria had a decent shot from range which was a yard wide,but hardly the basis on which to claim that Argentina ever looked like winning the game. Obviously things can change in an instant in football but your points carry about as much weight as a fistful of air.
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@ #27: First of all I'd say that both teams could leave the pitch as winners. But I disagree with you about one very one sided and uneducated view:
Germany's play is not based on the early goal lead and following counter attack game. Of course this was the case in the last two games, but it was the logical consequence of the games' developments. But way did Germany dominate games until they scored their first goal? Because they are able to control a game and transform that control into dangerous attacks if necessary. Also, Germany is a team that is able to recover from a Spanish goal - they have the mental strength and the technical and tactical ability.
Spain has experience, David Villa, a potentially dangerous torres, xavi and iniesta. Before the tournament started I also thought they have a top defense. Their defense has not convinced me during the tournament.
Germany's defense in turn has surprised me during the Argetina game, being solid and all players being highly concentrated. Of course you cannot prevent all chances, but Germany nearly did shut down Argentina completely.
I find it hard to decide on which side to put my money on.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Perhaps if Uruguay win the World Cup we can go full circle and have another BBC Blog on South American dominance!
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Spain havent hit top gear yet and they made the semis. This shows they are still a great team.
But they have played a bit slow when in possession. Sometimes as well I feel like screaming when they have several opportunities to shoot from 10 or 15yds but decide to try intricate triangle passes between 2 or 3 players through the middle, then a tackle comes in, and chance gone
Sometimes they over-elaborate.Torres is the player they have with the directness they lack otherwise. Yes he's lacking match fitness/sharpness but they need to stick with him. He is one player they need to beat germany.
Germany as we've seen can defend with all eleven players and seem fit enough to run around the whole match breaking in numbers to attack, but getting back just as quickly to defend. Spain need to score first and put them under pressure. They didnt respond well against serbia after going behind.
Torres is one player who could be put through with a long pass after a german counter. Del Bosque will play him from the start
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Paul rules.
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Snatching the ball from the opponents and initiating quick counter attacks have brought the semifinalists thus far. When with the ball, the Latin American sides take a little more time to unfurl their attacking patterns. The Dutch, German and Spanish sides have been faster and compact often sending more men in search of goals. Rival defenders had hard time coping with such onslaughts.
Looking forward to some exciting and explosive semifinals. Best wishes to the four teams and their fans.
Dr. Cajetan Coelho
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Not a "poor" World Cup but certainly a mixed one. Teams are almost bound to display frailties at some point but the way Germany carved open both England then the much vaunted Argentina was a joy to watch. Surely some teams failed to perform, many of them African if I am allowed to say that.
If you are looking for a continent with too high a quota there is your man.
Europeans too, Italy, France, England and Greece were frankly dire. (But the European quota has been squeezed already.) Other countries that our press would habitually mock, say Japan, NZ and USA did not too badly.
Germany to win but Netherlands for sentimental reasons.
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Have to love the Barca comment on the Cesc transfer "Its become so public..." Errr hang on chaps, was it not Barca that made it so! Cough up £60mil or go away.
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Can't believe people are doubting the Spainish. They destroyed the Europeans in 2008.
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The Spanish ARE Europeans.
That aside, I agree that the first goal will be crucial. We've seen how good the Germans are at counter-attacking, but they have not yet had to come from behind and win.
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n. 28....last time I looked Spain was in Europe: back to Geography class for you, mate!
n. 42...not so sure that Spain should have had a penalty from the re-taken kick. The Paraguayan goalie brought Fabregas down, sure, but are you certain Fabregas had not gone into the box before the kick was taken, so allowing him to get to the ball in the first place?
n. 40 Villa's goal against Portugal may have been offside (though I think not): no way was it "clearly" so
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Why hasn't Jesus Navas had more of a chance this world cup?
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The Europe v South America debate is utter nonsense, and sounds to me like a bit of a chip on the shoulder by journalists in Europe and members of UEFA. Europe is a bigger continent, has 3x more sides in a world cup than south america, yet out of 18 world cups, 9 have been won by south americans, 9 by Europe, and the all time leading country is Brazil with 5 wins, including, between 1994 -2002, three finals, with two wins over the superpowers of Germany and italy.
So, however you analyse the above, South America is the dominant continent, given the number of places it gets.
But like i say, it is a daft blog by the writer, as the old stereotypes of 'European' and 'South American' football are long gone. Brazil and Holland play the exact same style of formation, and are both ultra defensive sides who rely on the counter attack and fouling in midfield, diving and conning the ref, Argentina do not have any set style due to having no manager effectively, Spain play like the brazilians of the early 80's and are more 'South American' in style, which isn't surprissing as culturally they share more commonality with their latin america cousins than Europe, wheres germany seem to have a number of styles they can use.
Platini has made, for once a sensible comment, the success of germany, Holland and Spain is a huge success for youth football and should help promote the World Youth tournaments that England tries so hard to denigrate. Undoubtabdly, Platini was aiming a swipe at Premiership clubs.
Personally, i believe Brazil and Holland are by far the two best teams in the world, followed by Spain and Germany, and if Holland hold their nerve, they should beat Uruguay, Germany or Spain with ease as none are as strong as Brazil. But, will the Dutch bottle it as they are prone to do. It is a golden opportunity for them
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Who cares if Fabregas is fit, he's hardly likely to start anyway, he aint no Xavi or Iniesta
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Another why thread, o, how many. Each time they come too, the 'truth' they offer ends up being disproven. Hopefully Uruguay will go through but at this stage everyone is a master swordsman.
With Klinsmann informing of his 'football existentialism' (he's our new Nietzsche) I do hope they get to the crown though Spain really deserve this after they have always been bullish about changing THEIR style. Both deserve it, they've believed in THEIR way of winning a match not being afraid to go forward or be flamboyant about it.
Let the Sun Tzus devise their ways and steal away all the plaudits from their men. The way things are going, FIFA will just have to start awarding 'best coach'.
Yes, Dunga too went for his own style but how much of football was there? a bunch of jackals on the serengeti working for their lion. Now, Spain, Germany, what is there to miss, they embody football and they have embraced it like a buxom woman.
Ah, someone told me about some futsal somewhere, where did he say it was? I better be quick about enjoying my sweet soccer before the pragmatists come make it bland.
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I'll put my money for Germany, 2-1.
If they can stop Messi and Tevez from having a dance on the midfield and going rampage up front, they I don't see why they can't stop Iniesta, Villa, and Lolres.
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51. At 5:54pm on 06 Jul 2010, Twirlip wrote:
The Spanish ARE Europeans.
That aside, I agree that the first goal will be crucial. We've seen how good the Germans are at counter-attacking, but they have not yet had to come from behind and win.
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Spain haven't come from behind to win, either. Plus Chile scored against them with only 10 men. It's all well and good that they've had over 65% possession, as Rich pointed out, but it's what you do with it that counts.
Germany's shots on goal to goal conversion rate is twice as good as Spain's. (30% v 15%) even if you count the attempts off target it's better (18% v 8%). Goals against is 6% v 10% with Germany having to defend 34 shots against them as opposed to Spain's 19. Counting Frank Lampard's goal it's 8% v 10%. I know these stats don't mean much because each game is a new one but you appear to be saying Germany are pretty useless when they're clearly not.
Anyroad, I hope it's a cracking game tomorrow morning (my time) and not a case of get a goal, let's give up attacking. I hope 'dive, dive, dive' isn't on the menu, either.
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For Spain's last two matches, I have been at a huge fan zone alongside Real Madrid's Santiago Bernabeu stadium where there have been about 50,000 euphoric supporters chanting 'campeones, campeones,' into the night despite there being two games remaining. This scene has been repeated all across the country.
Another great hiccup phil. Painting a rosy picture of spain to the outside world that all his happy - even the spanish media have shown that in Catalunya, The Basque country and Galicia we DONT want spain to win!!! There will be no celebrations, no big screens and no spanish flags in Barcelona - we will support the selection of players (only because this year the majority are barca) but in all honsty VENGA GERMANY - so we can watch real madrid fans crying into their franco Pillow as the selection (Spain) loses!!!
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What has transpired has probably been a case of the top European teams actually playing to their strict systems and flourishing whilst the South Americans have been victims of their own much-lauded past successes. Argentina befell the 'cult of personality' and were found out and Brazil imploded by playing a style of football which is unnatural to them. Those Europeans who departed early were unable to evolve their play and have suffered the consequences. But there are still nagging doubts regarding the Dutch. Germany for me, I'm afraid...http://gregtheoharis.wordpress.com/2010/07/06/holland/
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Torres has been struggling through this world cup. When he's been substituted it's lifted the team and in the games against Portugal and Paraguay brought the goals that Spain had been pressing for all game.
I'd start with Llorente or Fabregas and have Torres on the bench. Llorente & Fabregas may not be as good as Xavi or Iniesta but on current form in this competition have outshone Torres and so should play ahead of him at least.
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Start with Torres and watch him explode into life. ..
Spain 3 Germany 2
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Hard to agree with this case made for the European teams. They performed as they usually do, and just being more in numbers, makes it easier to have three of them in the semi's.
However, this tournament showed much more the strength of South American teams. Uruguay was probably not all their strongest contender.
Tactically, this World Cup showed beautifully organized South American and African teams with Ghana and Bafana Bafana, regardless of their results, as the first thing they used to fail on was usually tactics. Same for Ivory Coast, who was only unlucky with the draw.
One shouldn't be blinded by results only. A European team will be world champion outside Europe for the first time, but the only European team to have convinced so far was Germany.
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"Why Europe's top teams have done well at 2010 World Cup??"
Before the start of Quarter-final stage, the question was opposite to the one above.. "Why South Americans have done well at 2010 World Cup??"
Here, at the BBC I've read about that earlier question..!!
The question which nobody has asked so far, or if so, nobody could answer briefly is, "Why some teams are 'Over-hyped' just because of the presence of 1 or 2 'Star' players??" and "How teams such as Uruguay and Germany evaded all sort of 'hypes' pre-tournament..??"
Tell you what, even if Germany wins this WC, they may not even pass the group stage of Euro 2012.. Everybody will forget them.. and comes 2014, 'back to "How Germany" analysis'..!!!
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Good article, but I think it needs to be put into context..........if you get bored easily --- I suggest you browse to a different site Right Now!!
How many European teams are in the World Cup? - 13, this used to be higer, until recently. Africa had six countries this time; only because South Africa were the Host. Can you believe that there was a time that only 1 African country used to be allowed into the World Cup? Me neither! Please, don't give me some brain-dead arguments about quality of football - how do you get better? Descipline, one of the most desciplined teams of the Wold Cup (Brazil) were knocked out due to so called ill-descipline.
Now, I have to admit that Geography is not my strongest subject but Europe is not almost three times the size of say, South America. In fact, if you look at each continents, the sizes are approximately as follow:
1.Asia - (44,579,000 sq km)
2.Africa - (30,065,000 sq km)
3.North America - (24,256,000 sq km)
4.South America - (17,819,000 sq km)
5.Antarctica - (13,209,000 sq km)
6.Europe - (9,938,000 sq km)
7.Australasia/Oceania - (7,687,000 sq km)
Source: http://www.cylist.com/List/400300086/
Are there more countries in Europe? Don't give me nonsense about the breakup of the USSR - this rubblish has been like this before that.
You can check this yourself --- I didn't make it up.
Using simple logic that you pick up from primary school school, it is possible to work out or even conclude that the probability of a European teams advancing into the latter stages is greatly enhanced by their sheer number - though may not be a fact.
Furthermore, If you keep limiting the number of countries from the so called 'lesser continents'; how on earth would the continents get better. As we have seen in the past 50 years or so, there is a defact group of teams from each continent that regularly qualify. The point being made is, the more you play strong (allegedly) teams, the better the weaker (allegedly) teams get.
Lets not rejoice in European elite, when any intelligent individual can clearly see that the stage is set for them to progress --- it would be a failure from their part not to progress. When we make comparison we must do it like for like.
I could ramble on about so many one sided setups to fill the BBC site; but I won't.
It would however, be interesting to see what others' views are on this.
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I'd drop Torres, for Fabregas, not Llorente. Llorente will be shown up against Germany if he does start.
For me, Torres is a couple of months away from being at his best. Of course no player wants to miss a world cup, but he was rushed far too quickly back into the fold, and he is paying the price. Now people are doubting him as a player. Even an 80% fit Torres is one of the best in the Premier League, but he's about half fit at the moment, and he looks clumsy and slow.
It's a real shame for him, but injuries come with the territory, and they certainly come with Torres.
I'm looking forward to having him back at Liverpool next season should he decide to stay, as if he can stay fit, he will be devastating once again.
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Torres shouldn't start but will. 2-1 Spain aet.
http://footballfutbolfitba.wordpress.com/
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16. 08:40am dukster74
23. 09:51am Millonarios
54. 6:16pm BrazilNut01
63. 10:09am Boukman
65. 10:57am Raz
Excellent points all.
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"Why Europe's top teams have done well at 2010 World Cup??"
What tripe. Consider which European teams have played to the level you expected them -- and which have played above or below where you expected them to play.
Played as expected: Denmark, Germany, Greece, Serbia, Spain, Switzerland
Played below expectations: England, France, Italy, Portugal
Now, look at teams who played above expectations:
European: Netherlands, Slovakia, Slovenia
Non-European: Japan, S. Korea, Ghana, Mexico, USA, Paraguay, Uruguay
Who is on the ascendancy & who is descending?
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well, as it turned out Spain doesn't need Fabregas as it's really barca playing in a red kit. It's a (warning) sign to Fab should he choose to join Barca now as opposed to when Xavi/Iniesta retires. Xavi and Cesc runs into each other as they occupy the same spot in midfield....
This semi final was a good reality check for cesc.
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