Spain's best and worst - The Phil Awards
The Premier League has been on full throttle over the holiday period but as La Liga does not start up again until Saturday it's perhaps a good time to give out the first Phil Awards to acknowledge what's been happening in Spanish football since the start of the season.
Top Team - Can there be any other choice than Barcelona?
With the weight of winning an unprecedented treble last season hanging over them, they haven't crumbled under the pressure. Once again they are top of the league and also in the Spanish Cup and Uefa Champions League. Into the bargain, they won the Fifa Club World Cup for the first time earlier this month.
Perhaps they are not quite as stylish as last season's version of Barca - they have scored 10 goals fewer in La Liga than at the same point last season - but they have looked visibly more solid at the back. In fact, they actually have one more point to their name than they did after 15 games last season and remain unbeaten.
Biggest Overachievers - Real Mallorca, with Deportivo La Coruna close behind them.
The pair are fifth and sixth in La Liga at the moment, generally playing attractive football and operating on a small fraction of the budget of the big clubs. They are a testament to the skills of the respected veteran coaches Gregorio Manzano and Miguel Angel Lotina.
Mallorca have a 100% record at home, with seven wins out of seven, even if their away form has been patchy. Borja Valero, who I've written about in the past, is a midfield star in the making while the central defensive pair of Nunes and Ivan Ramis may be the best two men in the middle of a La Liga back four, with the exception of Barcelona's Carles Puyol and Gerard Pique.
Deportivo also have some hugely under-rated players, notably Mexican striker Jose Andres Guardado, who potentially could be one of the revelations of next summer's World Cup, and the "media punta" (playmaker) Juan Rodriguez.
The big issue will be whether either side will be still in contention for a Champions League place in March, historically the time when injuries and suspensions start to take their toll on teams without the depth of the leading four.
Biggest Underachievers: Who else other than Real Madrid, despite the fact that I can already hear the shouts that I'm being Anti-Madrista.
Los Merengues president Florentino Perez spent a staggering €270m on new players during the summer and he, as well as everybody else, might rightly have expected to have got a better return on the money even at this stage in the season.
Not once in the league have all his "galacticos" been firing on all cylinders in the same game.
Cristiano Ronaldo missed seven league games through injury. Kaka, after a promising first few matches, seems to have become a rather ordinary midfielder of late, not helped by injuries. There's also Karim Benzema, of which the view of many Real Madrid fans is "the less said the better".
The Spanish sports newspaper Marca suggested recently that he might be the new Nicolas Anelka rather than a replacement for Ruud van Nistelrooy, whose sell-by-date has sadly but very obviously been reached.
Anelka, it should be remembered, signed a seven-year contract on his arrival from Arsenal in 1999 but lasted just one very erratic season marked by falling out with the coaching staff, his team-mates and the fans.
Benzema's two very public prangs in ridiculously expensive cars during the last month have done nothing to diminish the notion that Marca might be right.
Biggest disappointment, although I'm being diplomatic as this Award would have been better called Biggest Disaster or Biggest Debacle.
No, poor old Xerez doesn't get it as nothing was expected from them and it's no surprise that they occupy the bottom spot. If, through some remarkable turn of fate, they had been above the relegation zone, then they might have actually got my Biggest Overachiever Award.
I've also resisted the temptation to go for that perennial Aunt Sally, to use an English turn of phrase, Atletico Madrid although they have hardly covered themselves in glory since August.
The Award actually goes to Real Zaragoza who, despite all their promise and having spruced up their side with the likes of Ikechuckwu Uche (injured in the second game of the season and unlikely to return before April), Peter Luccin and Jermaine Pennant, have managed to lurch from one crisis to another since the start of the season. They have now gone six league games without a win and slithered down the table.
Manchester City's handling of their own recent managerial shake-up looked positively adroit compared to Zaragoza as they sacked Marcelino Garcia as the coach the week before Christmas, with reserve team coach Jose Aurelio Gay taking charge and presiding over the 6-0 thrashing by Real Madrid.
Zaragoza then leaked the news that former coach Victor Munoz was going to take over, only for him to have second thoughts and back out of the deal once terms had been agreed but before pen had been put to paper.
Gay has now been confirmed in the job until the end of the season but few are taking bets he will actually make it that far.
However, English football fans may be intrigued to know that former Spurs midfielder Nayim, who famously broke Arsenal hearts with his stunning last-minute winner over David Seaman's head from 40 metres out in the 1995 Cup Winners' Cup final, was named as Gay's assistant on Sunday.
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~18~RS~)
Hi, I'm Phil Minshull. I've lived in Spain since 1997 and covered Spanish football since the first day I got here. My blog aims to provide some insight into what's happening in La Liga, and there is much more to it than only Real and Barcelona, as well as elsewhere around Europe.
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Hi Phil
I am disappointed by the blog. I was looking forward for more lively information about the club standings and player stats in Spain.
Phil, I am surprised you havent mentioned anything about Valencia. Do you think they will be able to retain David's of their team? OR are they heading the English roads?
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"Not once in the league have all his "galacticos" been firing on all cylinders in the same game."
I actually registered on the BBC website in order to correct this statement. I think Real Madrid thrashing Zaragoza 6-0 counts as firing on all cylinders? Would you not agree?
Also Real Madrid are a new team, in their first season all playing together, yet they only trail the far more established team of Barcelona (arguably the best side in the world who have all played together for several years) by only 2 points! Yet you call Real Madrid the biggest underachievers in La Liga? Unless you expect them to be the best team in the world after only half a season of playing together, I think thats not a fair statement.
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The problem with Madrid was never one of quality but rather design.
From day one of of the season there were question marks over how these new players were going to fit into the squad, frankly I think some suspected that Perez had advance inside information on La Liga increasing starting teams sizes from 11 to 12 or 13!
They bought Albiol and Arbeloa to make their defence more sturdy, seemingly sound purchases, but lack of quality wasn't really the problem in the first place. The defensive players were arguably already there already but the problem is the otherwise outstanding Ramos's tendency to go walkabout (and attitude towards ref's) and Pepe's tendency to behave like he's in an episode of The Sweeney when things get tough!
Kaka and Ronaldo are both unquestionably brilliant, but both of them in the same team? Necessary? Debatable.
Alonso is a brilliant player for any team to have, look at Liverpool without him?! But with Gago, M.Diarra and L.Diarra already in place, again was it stricly speaking a necessary purchase?
Ironically the one player they actually needed, Benzema as a natural replacement for Ruud is the one player who's played, been needed but just been poor.
After this summer, Perez presumably has no money left to buy his way out of trouble, but that wasn't necessary back then, it seems that last thing worth doing now!
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Phil,
You mentioned ronaldo, benzema and kaka briefly with your comment about RM.
What about their other signings; alonso for example, how are they faring?
Also, Barca's player development system is suppose to be very good and responsible for the way the team gels; however does the current team have a foreseeable expiry date given the freak talent of messi et al.
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Hey has anyone mentioned Xabi Alonso on this page yet? I don't think so,
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#2- You will notice that the 6-0 thrashing of Zaragoza was done without Ronaldo, Kaka and with Benzema on the bench. Four of the goals were scored by players signed by Ramon Caledron...
But I must agree with many on the blog Phil- very disappointing. A few points I have issue with:
"Biggest disappointment, although I'm being diplomatic as this Award would have been better called Biggest Disaster or Biggest Debacle."
You place Zaragoza as the biggest disappointment? It was more or less expected that they would be slithering down to Segunda this season, as they survived with the skin of their teeth last year. Also, Christmas time sackings are becoming customary there- I'm sure you remember Marcelino was the replacement coach same time last year?
Fair enough Atletico Madrid and Valencia seemingly live off the crises that continually surrounds their clubs (who can forget the "pupas" adverts), But it is extremely harsh to lump Zaragoza into that group. Even Villarreal have been worse. Even Deportivo for a long time.
"Biggest Underachievers: Who else other than Real Madrid, despite the fact that I can already hear the shouts that I'm being Anti-Madrista."
Sorry Phil, but it would be a fair comment. You do know that Madrid have taken more points this year than Barcelona? And more than matched them in the Clasico despite being a very disjointed group?
" The Spanish sports newspaper Marca suggested recently that he might be the new Nicolas Anelka rather than a replacement for Ruud van Nistelrooy, whose sell-by-date has sadly but very obviously been reached.
Anelka, it should be remembered, signed a seven-year contract on his arrival from Arsenal in 1999 but lasted just one very erratic season marked by falling out with the coaching staff, his team-mates and the fans.
Benzema's two very public prangs in ridiculously expensive cars during the last month have done nothing to diminish the notion that Marca might be right."
Firstly- are you serious? You are basing this opinion on the insinuations of a paper (I use the term paper very loosely here) who admitted to printing fictitious stories drawn out of a hat?
If you actually watched Real Madrid this season, you would see that Benzema has been poor when forced to play alongside Raul. He cannot make his normal runs or take up his regular positions as he gets crowded out by his own team mate. Many in Madrid would agree that he has certainly improved since Pellegrini dumped El Capitano to the bench, and did a Riquelme on Guti.
Also, don't forget that Real Madrid had forgotten to arrange a place for him to stay or a translator until a few weeks ago…
Finally- in defence of Anelka, it was his goals that took Madrid to the 2002 final, lest we forget. He was never accepted in the Madrid dressing room- a fact admitted by both Geremi and Eto'o. Before Capello, there was too much power in the hands of certain players- just ask Vicente del Bosque or
Overall- poorly done Phil. It would have been more interesting if you had given us a more detailed look into how the LFP handles the still ever present issue of racism, or how Manucho is running out of games to score those 40 goals, or even if Royston Drenthe really is the perfect footballing specimen as stated by Pedja Mijatovic?
One wonders if you actually even watch any La Liga games…
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Hahahaha- sorry, left out Jose Antonio Camacho after the "or". Yes the man that would rather die than manage Madrid again... And for the fun of it, even good old Bernd Schuster.
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I can´t help but agree that the Madrid team do need more time to gel, critically at the back. Benzema will come good given time and will be at the club next season.
I challenge anyone who has seen them play regularly this season to find a team who so consistently entertain. I can´t tip them for La Liga however... but Barca certainly won´t run away with it.
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Nice blog.
Ignore the armchair critics.
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Hi Phil,
Nice blog. One could say picking on a brand new Madrid side is a bit harsh, given how new it is. I would contend that, just like last season, R Madrid have been a good, sometimes very good side. There is no dishonour in being second best to this Barcelona team, who have had years to perfect their perfect football.
But they did spend a quarter of a billion...
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Short blog! Think you should've gone for the list of clubs, followed by pre season prediction then gave them a grade for how well/badly they've done and a short paragraph on what's happened! Was still a decentish read but far too short as i'm trying to waste time at work!
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Joe G, you are more or less spot on about Real Madrid as far as the player purchases are concerned although I think their problem is a lack of leadership on the pitch or a player to mould the team around like it was with Zidane in the past and Barcelona do with Xavi and Iniesta (reason why Barcelona are best team on the planet). Ronaldo is not a team player and will never be until he grows up and like you've said Benzema has been awful they would have been better of not buying him and stuck with Higuain who has been Real's best player this season.
Also don't underestimate Perez. I don't think Perez has paid a penny for any player. He is well connected politically and in the business in Madrid. He persuaded Madrid's largest bank to pay for Ronaldo and in the past sold Real Madrid's old training ground for 200 million to the city council which now the 4 tallest buiding in Europe sit to clear the clubs debts and build a new training ground on waste land near the airport which will eventually include a 30,000 seater stadium for the B team. If needed he would find the money from somewhere to buy players.
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Phil, you forgot to mention Real Madrid's debacle againts Alcorcon. To put it in to perspective it is like Manchester United losing to Altrincham.
Good shout for Real Mallorca. Depor have been at the top before but Mallorca are a good example of if you get it right off the pitch it will get right on the pitch. I think the Champions League places will be a step too far as I can't see past Bracelona, Real Madrid, Sevilla and Valencia.
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Very strong defence of Anelka there, which I feel is somewhat missing the point. No one at Madrid ever said he wasn't excellent. Just inconsistent and a bad dressing room influence (the second one being similar to Eto'o)
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Not a great blog. Not sure Real Madrid really count as the biggest under achievers. Im pretty sure if Ronaldo hadnt been injured then they'd be leading the league.
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Is it just me or does Ronaldo look even better these days? Completely agree with 17, if he had stayed fit they would definately be winning the league.
Some of his goals have been magical, think it helps defenders in Spain are less physically imposing.
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#6
"#2- You will notice that the 6-0 thrashing of Zaragoza was done without Ronaldo, Kaka and with Benzema on the bench. Four of the goals were scored by players signed by Ramon Caledron..."
Interesting.. I think you will find Ronaldo scored an absolute peach of a goal in that game. So unless Ronaldo is so good he can score without playing in the game, the 6-0 thrashing was done with Ronaldo. You also state that the win was done without Kaka. Well Kaka may not have scored but he played for 82 minutes and set up Benzema for his goal. Did you even bother to research the game before posting that comment?
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It's bit early to make prediction about who will go top and who will lag behind. Making forecost with such verties is hard nut to crack. Assumption is that Barca will lose some point and Real seems to be better and better. These are two team which has clear edge over others whereas as the others ,like of valencia and villareal, though struglling a bit, still has out side chance.
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No 18 - you're bang on. He does look better. English defenders in general were all quick and powerful, more athletic than Spanish defenders (althogh much less composed on the ball) Plays right into the hands of Ronaldo who is hardly a light weight as it is and they cant keep pace withhim. I can honestly see him eclipsing the 42 goals he got at Man Utd in a season - he'll have a field day in Spain
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Wow, I've been reading the BBC site for a long time now but never felt the need to comment on anything - until now. This blog is actually pretty solid (although uninteresting) if we take away the Real Madrid comment which is obviously wrong and represents such an extremely biased view of the author I can't believe it was even allowed to be published. Even an occasional Sunday LFP watcher knows this is as wrong as it gets, and here is why.
First of all, Real Madrid are just two points behind Barcelona, a team that won every single competition they entered last season. And that is with Real having played all the top Spanish teams away from home already; Seville, Barca, Valencia, Atletico and Villareal. Boys from Blaugrana only played away to Valencia and got a very lucky draw and they have to come to Bernabeu as well, so their schedule is going to be much tougher, especially with them still being in the Copa del Rey (vs. Seville).
Next, Real is playing with almost a completely new team; seems fairly obvious but the author apparently hasn't noticed it as anyone having some knowledge about football should know that 5 new starters (Alonso, CR9, Kaka, Arbeloa, Benzema) are bound to disrupt any team, not to mention a new coach, yet again. Add long-term injuries to top players (CR9, Kaka and Pepe's last season's suspension) and it becomes obvious that Real Madrid actually did better than was expected of them; Barca is undefeated and still just two points ahead + a couple of results (win vs. RM) and ref decisions (Espanyol penalty) really flattered them.
Finally, it seems that most of the users here rarely even seen football outside of the EPL; one guy even says how Real vs Zaragoza 6-0 win was achieved without CR, while he started and scored in that game. The second one says Perez has no money to make further signings. Also, the investment was 160 mil euro, not 250 mil, player sales also count. Blunders on really very basic issues.
The only real blunder Real Madrid can be blamed for is the Copa game against Alcorcon, but then again, they haven't won it for 18 years now I believe and no sane person would say their last 18 years were poor or, in the words of the author, underachieving. All in all, one of the worst statements I've seen in a long time on this great site and I would really wish for the author to make it clear(er) how on earth Real Madrid, 2nd in La Liga and 1st in CL group, get the under-achievers award in front of the most obvious candidates, the second Madrid side, Atletico, who were in relegation places not long ago and now sit on 15th spot with 14 points out of 15 games and are out of the CL in group stages with 3 points (0 wins) out of 6 games?! Please Phil, shed some light on this one.
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In most normal seasons Real Madrid's points tally at this point of the season would have easily given them top spot in the table, so one can hardly speak as failure. Would you say then by the same token that Man Utd, Arsenal, West Brom and Celtic have had 'desastrous' seasons ? Unlikely, I'd imagine. I'm no Real Madrid fan - actually look out for Osasuna 'cos I live in Pamplona - but they've had their nose put out of joint with a Barcelona that have been unbelievably consistent. Same story with last season; despite a most impressive run under Juande Ramos (again no fan of him at all) Barcelona were (unfortunately for Madrid) a machine rolling forward.
The article is OK, but doesn't state the wider picture. Though I've occasionally been to see Osasuna, in my opinion and despite all the hype, the Spanish league is to me much more boring than either the English premiere or championship. Apart from flashes of individuality here and there, many games are quite 'grey' with teams nullifying each other out, and with far more dubious actions ... well cheating to gain advantages. I know we've got the so-called big 4 in England, but with only a 'big 2' in Spain there is less meaning to football. A few years ago both Valencia and Depor (Coruña) were in rich form, but have not been able to maintain it.
Another criticism of mine are the attendances. Many teams from the 'primera' have less public than championship sides in England; Spanish second division sides perhaps relating to the 3rd or 4th level in England (I mean Div 1 & 2), and a good many Spanish teams in the 4 regional leagues '2ºB' (that's directly underneath the national second division) hardly do any better than the Scottish third division or the Highland League, despite coming from sizeable towns. That to me smacks of an artificial world - wonderful Barca and Real yes - but hardly any pyramid firmly in place underneath ...
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C'mon Phil surely you could do better than this, I know the christmas break slows the old brain down but surely a players or teams for the decade thrown in would of made a better read.
I think you've been reading too man tabloid papers which have distorted your perception of reality.
Are Madrid really supposed to be winning the league, and not only winning but in style with a team that has been assembled only months ago?? a coach who was given no real time to settle in and has had the fans and media on their backs since the opened the cheque book?
All in all I think the hardcore support would be quite happy with how things are going, most of their tough away fixtures have been and gone and they are only two points from barca, who still have to play many of their tough away fixtures including the derby at madrid.
Underachievers could only have gone to Athletico, booted out the champs league at the first hurdle, sruggling in the league despite their talented team, surely they have the biggest case.
I would be very surprised if Benzema becomes the world star he looked to be at Lyon. I always get the feeling the modern real are not a club for developing or nuturing players, rather a place where players in their peak thrive, sure the younger ones get to play with some of the best player in the world but it wouldnt surprise me if bombed and went to another team and turned into a world star.
Hopefully (unlike some of your colleagues) you will reply to posters and defend your point on real as i really dont think you have a case, not many disagree with me either
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'Los Merengues president Florentino Perez spent a staggering €270m on new players during the summer and he, as well as everybody else, might rightly have expected to have got a better return on the money even at this stage in the season.'
Really? I shudder to think what this man's expectations were. Real Madrid have, I believe, won 12 from 15, with 37 points from a possible 45. For a newly assembled side, that's pretty good - just ask Manchester City. Only a moment of brilliance in a nerve-ridden El Classico means they are two points behind Barcelona instead of one point ahead. If that game HAD ended a draw (probably a fair result and I say that as a fan of Barca), would you have put Barcelona down as the biggest disappointment?
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I think people's comments that expecting Madrid to deliver an immediate La Liga or CL title with what is essentially a new team are rational and fair. But I think it is precisely what was expected.
No new manager would take the Madrid job expecting a long time to 'settle' the squad or build cohesion, the track record is there for all to see. Perez's ambitions may be over ambitious in the short term but they are what they are.
If rationality was a factor in Perez's expectations and ambitions he wouldn't have paid £80m for one player or €270m overall. If I was offered the RM job I'd realise this and I think the players surely do to.
Not sensible, but it is the world of Real Madrid and it's frankly nothing new.
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Poor...very poorly written article. Seems that Phil is suffering from the Holiday Blues..
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Joe G. That fact is they are only two points behind barca in the title race and topped their CL group so its not as if they are out of either competiton so have a very real chance of winning both. I think that the CL is a little beyond them for now but they have a real chance in the league with barca still to play in madrid as well as having to play more tough away fixtures than real. Im not saying they will win it but its not over yet by any stretch
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A lot of money spent by Real Madrid and was instant success not the purpose?
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Interesting to hear the opinion of a journalist living amongst the action. I reckon, you must love it when people tell how poorly written the blog is and in doing so, make numerous spelling and grammatical errors!
I understand where you are coming from with Real Madrid. Of course common sense tells you that they cannot be expected to immediately perform miracles when so many changes have been made. However, if you look at individual performances, then for sure Benzema, and certainly Kaka on recent form, have not approached expectations.
Ultimately the expectation was too high, and the performance (of highly touted individuals) has been a little worse than was realistic.
why do you think Barcelona haven't been as entertaining? My view is that Ibrahimovic has become too central to their play. Their is an un-barca like urgency to get the ball too him, that wasn't there when Eto was central striker.
As much as Ibrahimovic brings to a team, I think with Barcelona he is too involved. Last years set-up was a very lively trio of attackers and anyone was a target if they got into a good position, but this year the ball goes to Ibrahimovic too soon, and he gives it away a lot.
Thoughts?
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Disappointing blog
Surely if you were going to mention Real Madrid being the biggest underacheivers you might have mentioned them crashing out of the Spanish Cup to minnows? Instead you seem to be basing it on the mere fact they spent a fortune but do not sit top of the league. You fail to acknowledge that they are only a couple of points behind your "top team" and were hardly outclassed by by them in the derby - a big improvement on last year when the quality gap was glaring. They have also struggled with injuries to many of their top players. You also claim they havent once fired on all cylinders but mention they demolished Zaragoza 6-0 a few paragraphs later. Contradictory it would seem.
Surely Atletico Madrid must qualify as a contender as they have been abysmal in both Europe and domestically after looking like a good side last season. Now they may be lucky to even qualify for the Europa Cup.
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and what about Athletic Club Bilbao and Sporting Gijon? I think these two must be in place of Mallorca and Deportivo.
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I am genuinely surprised at how shallow this is. The analysis provided here is merely based on current statistics in the Spanish league.
I feel as a casual observer of most major european leagues, I feel I know more than this guy. For a better read, try Sid Lowe of the Guardian.
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This article stinks of armchair comments. Get Sid Lowe on board; he would at least attempt to hide his bias (for Real Madrid in this case). (I hate Real Madrid btw)
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Ah, JoeDavisRoach, perennial whiner. I cant remember when he ever thought a blog was good. I am sure his opinion is only formed after digesting the blog. He immediately takes a different position.
All this stuff is opinion and perspective, so of course its possible to argue a different point of view. I find the critics to be so infantile, not understanding the meaning of "subjective".
For those of you who think that Reals 6-0 victory over Zaragoza, demonstrates that they are firing on all cylinders, I will remind you that Liverpool beat Hull City 6-0 this season. One game means nothing, especially against such poor opposition.
Put your opinion, but lets stop this puerile criticism of the journalists, its boring.
And also, when Perez, spent all that money, that's when his team was opened up to such a high level of critique.
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Phil - who are the Middlesbrough of Spain. You know no decent keeper,erm or midfield or etc etc and look like being in a downward spiral for years after being in a European cup fianl and winning silverware and having some of the worlds best players (imo) during the last decade???
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36
No one ever complains about Tim Vickery, even when they disagree with him. It's because his arguments are at least thought out.
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It seems that some of Reading's bad luck has rubbed off on Real Zaragoza since our supporters twinned with them. Both clubs are known as the Royals apparently.
They say everything in football evens out in the end so it looks like both of us are due some luck soon.
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Some of these comments are a little harsh as, in my eyes, it is a much-improved blog. The over-achievers section was informative as it provided insight into the hidden stars of Spain that the average Premiership watcher may not have encountered.
Despite this, it would be advisable to stay away from highly-disputed terms such as over-achiever, and definitely keep clear of any local rivalry stuff even if you're only mentioning it. People didn't like the Real remarks, but I took more issue with Deportivo, as they were champions in 2000 and didn't finish lower than 3rd in the following four seasons.
Overall an enjoyable read - more on players I've not heard of, cheers!!!
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31. At 5:21pm on 29 Dec 2009, torontored wrote:
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I think this is a reflection of the continuing lowering standards of journalism on the bbc website rather than being a "perennial whiner".
These people are paid to be sports journalist yet increasingly there is a reliance on churning out blogs which represent an armchair fans view in blog format with the purpose of simply attracting comments rather than a focus on offering a bit of sports journalism and giving the reader something other than a casual opinion that they are all too familiar with anyway.
Blogs like these could be written by most people with a decent grasp of language that watch Spanish football. Theres very little substance or analysis in them and most bbc sports blogs now amount to "this is my opinion - dont you agree?".
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Your blog is shallow, youve got no insight about teams like Real Madrid, all you are interested is the costly big names and writing inflamatory comments. If you had an ounce of understanding about football you would have noticed, like I have done a marked improvement in players who were at Real Madrid before, for instance, Van der Vart is twice the player he was last year Marcello has improved since moving away from left back. These two along with Lass and Higuain have been most impressive you don't even mention them. Also you would have noticed that they are less reliant on Cassillas and last ditch tackles. I have every confidence in new coach at Real Madrid is moving the team in the right direction.
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Its a pretty short blog for a subject that requires a lot more analysis on such a league. My team of the moment is Sevilla. They are flying in the Champs league and have some wonderful players. I think they could upset a few next year in their progress to the final.
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Sorry, I've got to agree that this blog is poor. Naming Real Madrid as the biggest underachievers is just silly, they're only 2 points off your 'Top Team' Barcelona, after more or less constructing a team from scratch in the summer. You can't realistically expect them to do better than a team who won 6 trophies in 2009, especially when they've been without Ronaldo and Kaká for a number of games. Atlético surely should have been nominated in at least one of your negative categories, the 3rd biggest and richest club in Spain 2 points of relegation at Christmas... I think this would have been more interesting if you had focused more on specific players who have done well/ dissapointed, (e.g. Higuaín vs. Benzema)Lastly, just a minor thing, why don't you use accents in any of the team or player names, it looks ridiculous without in my opinion.
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Definitely Spains worst !!! Well done Phil more BS again!! Do you actually go and watch any games over there or does the day job get in the way? Maybe read some of the above comments....Don't care? Probably the BBC is happy that any old BS will incite people to register and respond...
Anyway get back down the pub and have a nice time....and leave the blogging to Vickery and the likes who actually seem to have a clue whether you agree totally or not...
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Sorry Mr Wang hope that wasn't too harsh....what about the rest of you???
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Phil makes one of the inaccurate analyses on Real Madrid being as underachievers. he says Ronaldo was injured for seven games, how does that counts as underachieving? Ronaldo is arguable the best player in la liga when he plays. Real madrid is second behind Barcelona trailing by two points, they are in the second round of the Champions league as a group winner. its very difficult to see where phil gets this idea that Real Madrid is underachieving. unless phil wanted real madrid to be ten points clear of Barcelona, thats not possible because no matter how much money you spend no team is unbeatable. this team only being together 4 few months nd they are beating teams 6-0. i'm sure phil would not say the same thing if it was Man City under Mark Hugues who have really underachieve despite spending a vast amount of money on players. phil needs to analyse things carefully before publishing misleading opinion.
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Heres a few reasons for the negative feedback:
The most obvious one is the rather bizzare choice of Real Madrid as the underacheivers of the year. Whilst your entitled to have your own opinion, I think this choice is a pretty second rate one, especially coming from a supposed sports journalist paid to cover Spanish football.
You havent supported your strange choice with any real evidence. The most obvious example of them underacheiving was when they were knocked out of the cup yet you didnt even bother to mention that (sloppy journalism). Instead you quote a Spanish tabloids take on Benzema.
Secondly - you dont outline what criteria deems Madrid to be underacheiving. 2 points off arguably the best team in the world, through to the next round of the Champions League meaning they are still well in the hunt for both has left most people scratching their heads as to what exactly was expected of Madrid. You havent offered a position on where you expect Madrid to be, what they needed to do in order to avoid the underacheivers tag or what basis they are being judged. Is it simply that they spent a large sum of money? If so where would you expect them to be positioned at this point in time? Is anything other than being top of the League an underacheivement? These are points you should have addressed.
Thirdly - The bulk of your focus is on the amount of money invested. You mention Ronaldo has been injured for a large part and Kaka started brightly. How does this tie into your point of underacheiving? Surely if Ronaldo has been out injured for a long time this reflects that Madrid have actually done well despite his injury rather than underacheiving.
Fourthly - You say the team has yet to fire on all cylinders. I think theres one or two games when they have but that aside what does this statement mean exactly? That the need to be winning games by 3/4 goals every time? I think this is an unrealistic target regardless of how much mone is spent.
Fifth - I could almost entertain the idea of MAdrid perhaps underacheiving if there hadnt been a clear other candidate. But there is a very obvious one in Atletico Madrid. They havent spent a fortune but they are clearly looking like 10% of the team they were last year and have been abysmal. How Real Madrid rank above them in underacheivement is beyond me. I would guess Reals target for the year would be along the lines of winning either CL or La Liga and performing well in both competitions. As far as I can judge they are on course in both. The game against Barce, despite losing, indicated the teams were much more evenly matched than last year and in Europe I also think Madrid have looked much stronger. On the other hand I think Atleticos targets would have been to get out of their group in the Champions League and finish top 5 in La Liga. They failed to qualify out of their CL group and are off course to finish in the top 5 in the league. This in my view is clearly underacheiving whereas with Madrid its highly questionable if they are underacheiving at all.
Lastly, Im beginning to suspect that the purpose of these blogs (not just yours but nearly all blogs on bbc) are more about attracting comments and offering armchair opinions that meet the casual fans in order to get people posting. Hence there is an increasing tendancy to go with controversial opinions and statements in order to get people to post. Perhaps the measure of these blogs is determined on how many people respond rather than the actual quality of the blog material itself? Taking your previous two blogs as examples - a European team 2000-2009 - again just casual armchair stuff. The average football fan could do one up in 10 minutes themselves. Not exactly stellar journalism. The other one was the unsuitably titled "Colour barrier finally broken at Athletic Bilbao". This is indicative of the kind of controversial (and inaccurate) heading that I am alluding to. Despite repeated attempts from people on the blog to ask you to clarify exactly what "barrier" was in place to be broken at Bilbao you neglected to give a reasoned response. You directed people to a line buried in the middle of the blog which seemed to contradict your own heading. There is no colour barrier at Bilbao but you wouldnt address this despite numerous people complaining about the ridiculousness of the statement.
Even from a casual fans perspective the above article is fairly shallow and unsupported but from the perspective of a journalist it is shockingly poor. Perhaps you could address some of the points made above to support your claim that Real Madrid are the biggest underacheivers so far and on what basis they claim that tile considering Atleticos terrible start? As I said before - I have no issues with people having their own opinions, but if your a journalist being paid to write and present about them then I would at least expect a decent amount of supporting argument.
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Was that it?Highly disappointed once again Phil!Could we have something in depth next time instead of phoning it in as you're clearly doing?
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Number 19. I was at the RM v RZ match wherein RZ were truly awful BTW. I can assure you that Kaka didn't set up the Benzema goal, nor did he play for 82 mins, in fact he wasn't even on the bench........
Perhaps I might ask you - did YOU even bother to research the game before posting that comment?
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After reading the comments put on here its no doubt that Phil Minshull isnt short of a few enemies whats more his article is being targeted on petty judgements.
The most important being the comments regarding Real Madrid, lets face it RM wernt the worst team in La Liga before the galacticos II and spending the equivalent of the total transfer budget of near enough three quarters of the league without a doubt raised expectations. Now here is where it becomes funny i dont know what the general consensus is but personally i thought real madrid should have been a certain candidate for second place if not go on to somehow trump barca for the title. Clearly Perez didnt agree with this and thought lets strenghten the team to firmly challenge barcelona and his valuation in gap between barca and real was 270 euros? really? who buys that?
Perez bought a bunch of WELL established players professionals of the highest calibre to make RM clear cut champions and to this i have no doubt.
Obviously the period in which players gel is important but the fact that a squad of that size who have to constantly change line ups to keep players happy has fundamental flaws. Let's look at the premiership, Man utd, Chelsea, and Arsenal 3 of the 'big four' there is one thing that stands out in common with the match day players of these teams, players like Sturridge, Owen, Denilson, J. Evans, Vela and so on are the back up's, the 'Bench'. What is clear is that these players are far from spectacular and lets be honest hardly on par with the superstars of the galaticos however each member on the benches of these teams have proven to come on and change games through sheer determination and grit.
Lets look at the sitatuion of a typical sub at RM. M.Diarra great example there are three players who play in his position with a combined vallue of over 60 million pounds whats his motivation? in the unlikely circumstance that alonso, L.Diarra AND gago are all injured he is unlikely to play again after the players recover even if he had scored a hatrick with his backside because real will not contstantly leave their 30 and 16 million pound defensive midfielders warming up the bench but the same goes for Metzelder, Granero, Van der Vaart and few others. Sooner or later these players are going to want to fulfil their potential and last 20 minutes against the likes of xerez is hardly the biggest stage of football.
All in all the review was not a factual evalutation but the personal outlook of PM and if some people think that spending near enough 250 million pounds on players for a team who should already be challenging for the title is too much to still occupy second place and get thrashed by a barely professional side then the future looks bleak for liverpool, valencia, roma who judging by some comments are a few billion pounds short of what they should be spending each summer in order to challenge the top teams in the repsective leagues.
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has anyone mentioned athletico madrid for underacheivers of the season. 2 points above (and struggling against) relegation.
you'd expect far more from a team with the likes of simao, reyes, aguero, forlan, maxi rodriguez and luis perea to name a few.
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Good job Phil,
so Spain's La Liga is nothing else than Barcelona/your favourites/, no way of mentioning, Sevilla or Valencia, Real Madrid are disappointing for you as long as everything coming besides Barca:)
Good job Phil, nice one....
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I don't post much but I always read these blogs and for once I have to agree with JDR.
I don't even watch Spanish football that much but even I know that Real are doing quite well even though they've had key injuries and a mostly new team. If anything it's Barcelona who are not playing to their expectations this season despite being top of the league.
Phil, where are you?
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I purposely signed up 2 comment on 2 of these comments 1st gooner fan the way hestarted of was fine but the started talking about future transfers, the blog had nothing to do wiv transfers. Andwot anoyd me most was kwaks7 mentioning that real madrids 6-0 win was firing the cylinders, I bet right now he's sayin liverpool r doin realybad now and ther hopeless and so am I and I love liverpool not literaly of course but that must mean Liverpool r firing all the cyliders cos we batterd hull 6-1 who r probably the equivalint 2 Zaragoza so that comment was purly wrong
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Mallorca are most definitley the surprise of the season, many people's favourites to go down. Was quite dissapointed with the blog though, nothing really interesting about it.
I don't know how you can call Real Madrid the biggest underachievers or mention them without talking about Higuain. They are a stronger outfit than before, and I think you'd have to be stupid to think they'd form a great team with all these players thrown together straight away. I wouldn't expect a BBC journalist to have bought into the idea they'd be winning everything straight away.
Last season Real Madrid were embarassed as they were thrashed by Barcelona, the difference in quality was clearly evident, that didn't happen this year. They are only two points behind a side that is arguably one of the best teams of all time.
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OK guys, let's all take a breath. A blog by it's nature, and specifically on this subject, is an opinion peace. So it's ok to disagree with what he says, but to sign on to say it's rubbish wastes everobe's time.
The Real Madrid point has a, well, point. Despite the fact it's obvious R Madrid are doing well, the money was spent with the ambition of conquering all. Despite the fact they may well come good, they want to be winning, so perhaps a slight underachievment (not the worse by a long shot in my opinion, but still).
My point is that R Madrid and Man City are alike in that common sense targets do not apply, the owners have provided an open cheque book and demand nothing but success...
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I agree with phil on Real madrid to a certain extent, while they may be second in the league they have been lucky with regards to fixtures, playing mainly teams who are in the bottom half of the table, they lost to both sevilla and barcelona and when they have won have not always been too convincing.
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while i don't agree with phil's underachiever tag for real madrid, it's true that madrid had thoroughly unreasonable expectations. why else would they spend frankly ridiculous amounts on players (world-class though they may be)? madrid were runners-up last season; if they spend a quarter billion and are still second, they must be at least a little disappointed.
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err...why was i modded?
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3. At 09:52am on 29 Dec 2009, Joe G wrote:
The problem with Madrid was never one of quality but rather design.
From day one of of the season there were question marks over how these new players were going to fit into the squad, frankly I think some suspected that Perez had advance inside information on La Liga increasing starting teams sizes from 11 to 12 or 13!
They bought Albiol and Arbeloa to make their defence more sturdy, seemingly sound purchases, but lack of quality wasn't really the problem in the first place. The defensive players were arguably already there already but the problem is the otherwise outstanding Ramos's tendency to go walkabout (and attitude towards ref's) and Pepe's tendency to behave like he's in an episode of The Sweeney when things get tough!
Kaka and Ronaldo are both unquestionably brilliant, but both of them in the same team? Necessary? Debatable.
Alonso is a brilliant player for any team to have, look at Liverpool without him?! But with Gago, M.Diarra and L.Diarra already in place, again was it stricly speaking a necessary purchase?
Ironically the one player they actually needed, Benzema as a natural replacement for Ruud is the one player who's played, been needed but just been poor.
After this summer, Perez presumably has no money left to buy his way out of trouble, but that wasn't necessary back then, it seems that last thing worth doing now!
...
I agree with you. It seems that you grasp the concept much better than Phil. Sorry Phil:)
I think, however, that RM are not so far behind as to be labbelled disastrous. Maybe now that CR is up and playing, they will up their game. And Barca may grow tired(wishful thinking on my part).
The most ridiculous thing here today, is to put Man City and Real in the same category. Surely, even the open cheque book does not do that. or does it?
Real Madrid is, well, Real Madrid.
Mancity is, well, the blue-part-of-machester-recently-bought-by-saudis-who-want-to-make-it-as-successful-as-the-red-part-of-manchester-which-might-or-might-not-happen-and-this-could-take-at-least-fifty-years-to-become-even-conceivable.
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I'm amazed how many fans are so up in arms about a blog.
Why not discuss the points instead of criticizing the blogger?
Some have forgotton what a blog is....
Some on here are asking for Tim Vickery. Why go to his blog instead then? I wish the smileys worked on here because the 'doh' would be useful.
Anyway i thought the blog was pretty good. For the money Real Madrid have spent, i expected them to be top and not being a one man team they seem to be with Ronaldo.
For two fifty million spent on a team the stature of Real (Comparing them with City just doesn't make any sense at all considering the vast differencies in the stature of the teams) i expect them top of the table and not struggling to top of an easy cl group.
Real don't seem to think about what players they need as the team still looks unbalanced, to attack heavy.
4 out of 5
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MY LA LIGA TEAM:
CASILLAS
DANI ALVES, PUYOL, PIQUE, CAPDEVILA
(C)
XAVI HERNANDEZ, ANDRES INIESTA, LIONEL MESSI, CRISTIANO RONALDO
DAVID VILLA, SERGIO KUN AGUERO
Some people say Ashley Cole is the best LB in the world, Capdevila is right behind him.
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@64
Do people ACTUALLY think cole is the best LB in the world?
Surely, just staying in England, Evra is far superior?
Great team though
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...
The comparison between R Madrid and Man City are purely to highlight elevated expectations, not because they are anything alike (obviously)
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63. At 2:08pm on 30 Dec 2009, ABC = Anderson Basso Carrick IRUT wrote:
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You think Madrid are a one man team? This is despite them missing their "one man" for almost half their games and accumulating 37 points out of a possible 45 and topping their champions league group (which wasnt particularly easy). They lie just 2 points behind the current Champions League, La Liga, Spanish Cup and World Club Cup champions. I fail to see how this is underacheiving and I certinly fail to see how they are underacheiving more than Atletico Madrid. Even if you selected the best possible team out of all the players in the World at an infinite cost that team is still going to drop points in a competitive league. Especially when you consider the quality Barcelona have in their own team. If Real Madrid are undeacheiving then I can only assume its because fans and journalists have placed an imposible and unrealistic demand on them. If at the end of the season they finish well behind Barcelona and fail to make an impact in Europe then I would wholeheartedly agree they have underacheived but to lable them that as things stand currently is wide of the mark.
The reason there is so much negativity on the blog is because it wasnt particularly informative and offered very little in support of its claims (missing out key events like Madrids exit from the Spanish Cup). Most people are aware that a blog is an opinion but I would expect a little more than just a fan opinion from someone who is a paid journalist. I could get the same from talking to a friend or listening to a pub conversation. In fact the only difference between the majority of posts on this blog and the blog itself is that the author was paid to do it!
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#56
You are incorrect. My comment was not purely wrong and I will explain to you why. I did not say that Real Madrid have been firing on all cylinders this season.
The blog stated:
"Not once in the league have all his "galacticos" been firing on all cylinders in the same game."
Therefore, to disprove this statement, all I did was higlight one game where Real Madrid's "galacticos" did fire on all cylinders. And I agree, Liverpool are most definitely not firing on all cylinders this season, but for that one game against Hull, they most definitely were.
And apologies to whoever I commented on before, my first point that Ronaldo started and scored against Zaragoza was correct. However, after watching further highlights, Van Der Vaart set up Benzema and Kaka was not in the team.
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Sorry Phil, this is shoddy effort indeed.
In a rush to get out with your mates instead of producing this cack, not even fit for The Star this mate.
Expect better from you - much better!!
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63. At 2:08pm on 30 Dec 2009, ABC = Anderson Basso Carrick IRUT wrote:
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You think Madrid are a one man team? This is despite them missing their "one man" for almost half their games and accumulating 37 points out of a possible 45 and topping their champions league group (which wasnt particularly easy).
- Yes they are a one man team. I'm using the logic of when ronaldo was at United. It was thanks to ronaldo that Real Madrid have 37 points. If you look at whats happened to the new talent at Real Madrid you'll notice for 50 milion you'll expect Kaka to do much better, Karim Benzema has flopped too.
- Now onto the cl. Real Madrid the sort of money they've spent on players have been poor. To go through a group that contained an average AC Milan side, hot an cold Marseille and a spirited FC Zurich side. besides you've may have forgotton that Real Madrid got handed a thrashing from a (correct me if i'm wrong) non league side. And you reckon Real haven't underachived then by comparasion Liverpool are on track to win the league.
They lie just 2 points behind the current Champions League, La Liga, Spanish Cup and World Club Cup champions. I fail to see how this is underacheiving and I certinly fail to see how they are underacheiving more than Atletico Madrid.
- Spending over a quarter of a million euro's/pounds you'll be expecting to be doing better thant he team how spent less wouldn't you? beating non-league sides instead of geting a thrashing?
The reason i think Ath Madrid are less underachievers is because of this:
Disruption in the boardroom. A perfect example of this is Liverpool FC. Ath madrid have in effect the same side as last year but because of rumors of disruption in the boardroom and sacking coaches etc kind of has a different effect on a team who hasn't spent 250 million+ on talent of the stature of Kaka and Ronaldo etc
Even if you selected the best possible team out of all the players in the World at an infinite cost that team is still going to drop points in a competitive league.
- True but this isn't the case is it? Weren't convincing in the cl, a thrashing against a team not even near La Liga.
- You would expect better considering they've signed 2 of the best players in the world. Compared to Barca they are underachieving.
Especially when you consider the quality Barcelona have in their own team. If Real Madrid are undeacheiving then I can only assume its because fans and journalists have placed an imposible and unrealistic demand on them.
- They are comparing them to Barca. Barca are doing much better except the CL (although they did qualify). Real MArid itself is hyping it by themselves. Plus what do you expect signing so many good players?? Finish in the top 4 is great....? No Win everything maybe?
- Barca didn't spend 250 million on players in one season. Most of very high quality players came from the club itself. (A hint of what Real madrid should do)
If at the end of the season they finish well behind Barcelona and fail to make an impact in Europe then I would wholeheartedly agree they have underacheived but to lable them that as things stand currently is wide of the mark.
- They've underachieved in europe for years and now with a 250 investment winning it should be the target. But performance have not been convincing ala Manchester United this season. But i'll agree with that by waiting to see wha happends.
The reason there is so much negativity on the blog is because it wasnt particularly informative and offered very little in support of its claims (missing out key events like Madrids exit from the Spanish Cup).
- I thought the people on here have football knowledge about Spain. I wont say i follow it like i do with English football but even i knew about that!
Most people are aware that a blog is an opinion but I would expect a little more than just a fan opinion from someone who is a paid journalist.
- Tbh any opinion giving out by a blogger is going to be a fan opinion. You ask why? Becaue the blogger is a fan of football. The same as Tim Vickery.
- The blogger is on giving out general information. Would you like the blgger to do an essey? on Real Madrid season so far?
End the day. If don't like the blogs content (lots or not) why comment on it when they don't like it? Its like someone who watches Top Gear and moans about it when its just as easy to change channel.
I could get the same from talking to a friend or listening to a pub conversation.
- Could you get the same with a wider range of opinions??
In fact the only difference between the majority of posts on this blog and the blog itself is that the author was paid to do it!
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I may not live in Spain but I have long followed La Liga; for me it's the most entertaining league in the world.
I cannot therefore claim to be a diehard fan of any team or claim to watch every single game, but I, like many people, have noticed that this blog is pretty poor to say the least.
1) Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but to claim that Real Madrid are the biggest underachievers is a bit of a joke, bearing in mind the ridiculous state of affairs that several sides find themselves in. They currently trail arguably the best Barcelona side in history by two points and comfortably negotiated the group stage of the Champions League. Spending around 270 million in the summer they may have done, but if you want to try and catch Barcelona (who's midfield and attack alone amount to over that amount of money) then it's not going to come cheap. In addition, the fact that Ronaldo has missed 2 months of the season has hardly aided them either. Had he remained fit, they may well have been top of the table.
More to the point, there's been a clutch of sides that have had shockers of seasons. Atletico, like just about everyone else has noticed, have had an awful season despite boasting two world-class strikers and a strong squad to boot. They made a complete shambles of appointing a new manager and find themselves languishing in the table. Villarreal, despite containing the likes of Cazorla, Senna and Nilmar are in mid-table after an awful start, while Zaragoza as you mentioned occupy a relegation slot, ironically after being dismantled at none other than Madrid.
2) To label Benzema the new Anelka is pretty harsh. Had you watched many of the games, you'd be able to see that Raul stifles his approach play and limits the effect he has on the team. In addition, as someone already mentioned, to make assumptions on behalf of a sensationalist pro-Madridista propaganda tabloid rag (which Marca most certainly is - it's full of commissioned cack) about Benzema's lifestyle lacks any sort of substance.
But the thing that disappoints me is the pure shoddiness of this. What we as the readers want is an indepth description of La Liga. Some of the little things (like calling Andres Guardado a striker - he's a left winger) make this seem very shallow. I'll stick to Sid Lowe of the Guardian from now on.
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Having read this blog there are several things which have been left out. Namely the fact Real Madrid were described as underachievers without reference to their 4-1 Aggregate Copa Del Rey defeat. Madrid have been in good form recently they gave Barca a close game in the Nou Camp and were unlucky to come away with nothing. They also had a an excellent 3-2 away victory against Valencia, Barca failed to overcome Valencia on their trip to the Mestalla. Also I think Barca are not the same team that the were last season. Ibrahimovic doesn't offer anything close to what Etoo produced last season. He has scored goals but he is nothing like as explosive. He often reminds me of Dimitar Berbatov. I think it's also fair to say that Henry isn't the player he was. I think the 2nd half of the La Liga season will be a fantastic spectacle and don't be surprised to see Madrid taking the title. Also I am disappointed that there was no mention of Sevilla in the blog the Andalucian side have been playing some great stuff and sailed through there Champions League Group.
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My compliments of the season to everyone and some apologies as well, I haven't responded quite as quickly this week as on some previous occasions due to taking a day off myself!
Let's start with some responses to few of the people who were quick off the mark yesterday (Tuesday).
GunnerFan243: “I was looking forward for more lively information about the club standings and player stats in Spain.” To be honest, I think a lot of the statistical information you might have been looking for speaks for itself. What I try to do is bring a bit more depth to a subject and also give an opinion.
You were also surprised that I didn't mention anything about Valencia. Unfortunately, the space allowed means that sometimes certain topics don't get covered or don't get covered in the depth that many people would like to see.
Regarding Valencia, personally, I'm surprised that they are doing as well as they are after all the financial turmoil of the last couple of years. They were certainly close to getting my Overachievers award.
Villa may be the best European striker on current form over the last 18 months. His 12 goals at this stage of the season (he's the top scorer in the Spanish first division ahead of this weekend's matches) puts him on course to be the first Spaniard to score more than 30 goals in a season since Tenerife's Juan Antonio Pizzi in the 1995-96 season.
Whether Villa still playing at the Mestalla this time next year may depend on whether Valencia make the Champions League next season, which will ease a few of their cash flow problems. If they don't, then Villa could go and as he has a contract at Valencia until 2014 then the price could be in the region of €50 million, maybe more if he does well at the World Cup.
Kwazk wasn't happy with my comment about the “galacticos” not firing on all cylinders simultaneously and used the 6-0 hammering of Zaragoza as an example.
However, I've linked to match page from the Marca web site and as you can see the only “galactico” that played all 90 minutes of that match was Cristiano Ronaldo.
http://www.marca.com/marcador/futbol/2009_10/primera/jornada_15/rma_zar/
Kaka was injured, Xabi Alonso suspended and Benzema came on after the hour although he did get Real's sixth goal when Zaragoza were down-and-out,
I'm not super genius... or are I?: “Think you should've gone for the list of clubs, followed by pre season prediction then gave them a grade for how well/badly they've done and a short paragraph on what's happened!” This is a good suggestion and one that I seriously considered last week as the Christmas pud was being digested. In the end, it's a subjective call and given the space available - ideally a blog should be between 800 and 950 words and this offering comes in very close to that upper limit - I decided to go for what I've served up here.
Urke1: “Also, the investment was 160 mil euro, not 250 mil, player sales also count.” I think it's worth double-checking some figures here. Real Madrid purchases were €270 million and their sales were approximately €60 million: Robben - €25 million; Huntlaar - €15 million; Heinze – undisclosed; probably around €10 million; Cannavaro - free, end of contract; the rest, including Saviola, €10 million all together.
Sssspursss: “Hopefully (unlike some of your colleagues) you will reply to posters and defend your point on real as i really dont think you have a case, not many disagree with me either.” Well, I'll do my best to cover some ground for you and some other, particularly daibhidh0.
Firstly, turning back the clock, there have also been various people who have commented that I have being too harsh on Anelka and his stint at Madrid.
Well, he had two great games in the Champions League semi-finals and scored in both legs against Bayern but they were the only goals he scored in Europe that season.
He also only played in 19 La Liga games that season and scored just twice. He had the occasional, very occasional, good game but even he has admitted - in interviews with French newspapers at the end of that season and everywhere else since - that his time at Madrid was generally a personal and a professional nightmare. To quote Jorge Valdano from March 2000: “Anelka is a watermelon. You've got to open him up to see what you've got inside.” Being well aware of what he was saying, Valdano left his words open to several different interpretations.
“Are Madrid really supposed to be winning the league, and not only winning but in style with a team that has been assembled only months ago?? a coach who was given no real time to settle in and has had the fans and media on their backs since the opened the cheque book?” This is fair comment but for €270 million and Real president Florentino Perez having a clear agenda about the expectations from his squad, you would have thought that Real would have come out at the start of the season with all guns blazing.
To repeat Ross Young's rhetorical question, which I agree with, “A lot of money spent by Real Madrid and was instant success not the purpose?”
Also, it's worth remembering that the Real fans and the pro-Real elements in the Spanish media didn't really start getting on their backs until about five games into the season. The noises of discontent started being heard after they beat Tenerife 3-0 and not really at time the big name/money players were being bought in the summer. (Obviously, the rest of the world was commenting on the amount of money changing hands but most Real fans were just rubbing their hands in glee at the time.)
Despite the scoreline, Real played badly against a Tenerife team that were so inept that day that 11 random people from amongst those who have commented this week might have done better. Real should have scored at least five or six, just as they had done a couple of weeks earlier against a hopeless Xerez team.
The following week's game at Sevilla more conclusively showed up Real for not being the finished article and they have continued in many games to be rather unimpressive, despite winning matches.
I think many people, including a lot of Real Madrid fans, would have expected them to have been both topping the league, still in the Spanish Cup and generally playing much more impressive football for the amount of money that was spent on apparently world-class calibre players.
Ironically, in my opinion, Real's best players this season - with the exception of Cristiano Ronaldo and to a certain extent Xabi Alonso - have been people who were there at the end of last season such as Higuain, Lass Diarra, a much-improved Marcelo and, when he plays, Van der Vaart.
You are right in saying that they have had a more difficult first half of the season than Barca, in so far as they have played all their main rivals away from home, but then they did lose at Sevilla and Barcelona. They also had a relatively easy first five games of the season when the players should have improved their understanding and settled in. Real certainly went down with aplomb at the Camp Nou but the common consensus about the defeat at the Sanchez Pizjuan was that it was a disorganised mess and they were lucky not to go down by a heavier margin than 2-1.
That's it for this week. Further apologies as I haven't answered even a fraction of the questions posed.
However, I thought I'd finish off with a quick response to the pained query from followingborohurts: “Who are the Middlesbrough of Spain?”
It's got to be Celta Vigo.
OK, unlike 'Boro, they have never been in a European cup final but they were in the UEFA Cup on a very regular basis over the last decade, and even once in the Champions League. They made the UEFA Cup quarter-finals several times as well but Celta now they languish one place about the Segunda relegation zone. It's a miserable time to be living in this part of Galicia at the moment!
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73. At 8:04pm on 30 Dec 2009, Phil Minshull wrote:
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Theres nothing in this reply that covers adequately why you feel Real Madrid are the leagues biggest underacheivers. A quote from Ross Young doesnt really cut it.
A lot of money spent by Real Madrid and was instant success not the purpose?”
Well what exactly is instant success? You obviously cant properly measure it until the season is over but I would hardly say sitting 2 points off the top of the league with a healthy lead over second place, equal goal difference to Barcelona, topping a Champions League group and generally looking much stronger than the team outclassed by Barcelona last year amounts to serious underacheiving. Theres no question they would like to be top of the league but 2 points considering that Ronaldo has often been unfit and Barcelona have a truly great team virtually all the shortlisted world players of the year to boot just does not seem like an underacheivement. The only real evidence of underacheivement was their once off freak result in the Spanish Cup - a point which you didnt even mention in your original article.
Again one can only assume that you have been setting unrealistic targets for the Real Madrid team whereby you expect them to be comfortably top and winning each game by two or three goals. Surely if you cover Spanish football on a regular basis you would realise that this is a near impossible task in such a strong league? Surely this fails to acknowledge the strength of Barcelona who have just acheived an unprecedented quadruple/quintuple?
If you covred Spanish football last year you would surely realise there was a mjor gap between Madrid and Barcelona and significant investment would be needed to even begin to bridge that. On this yars basis so far, that gap looks to have been cut down significantly and with the players and squad available to Madrid there is the potential there to close it fully and even overtake Barcelona in time - something probably not possible with last years squad. Even spending the amount they did, did you really expect that Madrid would overtake a team of Barcelonas quality in just a few months? Even if you set up your expectations to be top of the league at this stage and still in the Champions League then being only 2 points behind the leaders with a healthy lead over third and winning your champions league grop is hardly a major underacheivement?
Meanwhile you have neglected to address the obvious underacheivers in Atletico Madrid which I cant understand. This is a team that boasts many fine players and a team that were very strong last year. Now they sit 2 points off the elegation zone and were embarrassed in Europe. Considering the expectations the team would have had pre seaon it is blatantly clear that this team is way behind where it ought to be whereas the idea argument that Real Madrid are underacheiving is highly debateable at very best.
I appreciate there are certain constraints on your blogs which you must adhere to but this particular piece has so many flaws that I cant excuse the general poor quality, lack of supported arguments and general lack of understanding being displayed by a sports journalist. There is also no excuse for innaccurate headlines such as with your article on Bilbao.
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To repeat Ross Young's rhetorical question, which I agree with, “A lot of money spent by Real Madrid and was instant success not the purpose?”
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I believe anyone with a grasp of the game would realise it's not possible to simply buy a load of players, throw them into a team and expect them to be world beaters when they play together. Maybe some of you have been playing Football Manager too much. Perez has actually said it would not be a failure if they failed to win the league.
Although the fact remains Real have improved from last season, you mentioned Phil how Real have already lost away to Barcelona, in what was a close game. Compare it to last season and the 6-2 defeat for Real at home where they were embarrased, a big improvement. I'm also of the opinion that game was a large reason for why Real felt the need to go back to the galacticos philosophy.
At this stage they have had harder games than Barca(as you acknowledge), and are only two points behind the best side in the world, and arguably one of the best of all time. At the half way stage I personally think it's ridiculous to argue they are underachieving.
It seems you've given them this award on what Perez's expectations are, and the money he spent and to be honest that is ridiculous. The Alcoron game is a good point, although one game is not enough to consider them underachievers for me, and it was mainly second choice players in that match.
Even Perez himself, a hard man to please (love how he sold and then had a go at Makelele saying he could only pass the ball 5 yards, only for the Real side to fall apart without him) has came out and said that the season would not be a failure if they failed to win the league, and that they are on the right path.
Add in the fact the main purchase Ronaldo hasn't been at 100%.
Have to ask you Phil, do you not expect the Real side to improve in the second half of the season?
I certainly expect them to, and they are in a great position to push on and win the title, and challenge for the Champions League.
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Urke1: “Also, the investment was 160 mil euro, not 250 mil, player sales also count.” I think it's worth double-checking some figures here. Real Madrid purchases were €270 million and their sales were approximately €60 million: Robben - €25 million; Huntlaar - €15 million; Heinze – undisclosed; probably around €10 million; Cannavaro - free, end of contract; the rest, including Saviola, €10 million all together.
Well thanks for the response Phil; still, I really have to say that you should start triple-checking from now on because media reports like yours have caused this clear misunderstanding of Real spending 250-270 mil euro and I see the EPL watchers completely bought it.
Besides the sales you mentioned, there were two more, and both were the most important ones as well so it baffles me you missed them: Sneijder to Inter and Negredo to Seville ... Negredo was 15 mil and Sneijder was even more (I haven't checked anything so won't provide exact numbers but I do follow Real Madrid on a daily basis).
I won't argue the bit on Real Madrid's underachieving, that's pretty subjective and we can leave it till the end of the season.
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Strange to see Real Madrid not take advantage of Barcelona's slip up at the weekend? Or is it? I have to agree that all the money they have spent is looking more and more like a waste!!
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Alot of Phil-hating here about the Madrid comment.
I'm sure he is referring to Madrid's performances rather than results, which have been economical but not spectacular.
Indeed, Barcelona, by their own incredibly high standards, haven't been fantastic this season, but this may be more to do with their change of style with Ibra up top.
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Decent blog. Most of the crticis of it seem to be armchair Madrid fans, so its understandable. But they have very little substance to back up their complaints. Lets face it they are trying to buy the trophies, even more so than usual with the amounts spent. So you would expect their squad of 'galacticos' to win everything in sight. Anything less is an underachievement! I'm just watching them lose to Athletico Bilbao as I write. Yet more evidence. Well said Phil. All true football fans will appreciate the success of the smaller clubs like Deportivo and Real Mallorca despite the huge financial disadvantages.
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No Byron Jones true football fans appreciate players who have worked hard on honing their skills and have real feel for the game thats why they cost money. You abviously appreciate players who cannot be bothered to hone their skills to the same level, because it takes hours of repetetive practice, but can win games by the easier route of muscle, getting in the face of the opposition etc etc and crude challengers. I have been a Real Madrid fan since living within walking distance of the stadium and saw every home game I got tickets for, and I remain a fan because I appreciate the way they play the game. However no complaints about the loss today Real played OK but kept shooting directly at the keeper I think Higuain is their best players especially in those basque stadiums where you can really sense the nasty hostile atmosphere.
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It will be great to watch Atletico Madrid, i have bought tickets from
http://ticketfront.com/event/Atletico_Madrid-tickets looking forward to it.
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