Real, the Rossoneri and Ronaldinho
There's no getting away from it, the only possible topic to address is Wednesday's Champions League encounter between Real Madrid and AC Milan.
The pair are the two most successful sides in the history of Europe's premier competition, winning the European Cup or Champions League nine and seven times respectively.
However, these are strange times for both these continental giants.
At face value, you might think that all is well at Real. After all, they lie second in La Liga and are just one point behind Spanish league leaders and bitter rivals Barcelona.
Real Madrid striker Karim Benzema controls the ball
Nevertheless, giving a small insight into the sometimes perverse world of Spanish football, Los Merengues' super-critical fans and some of the local media have already got the knives out for coach Manuel Pellegrini and some of the summer superstar signings.
This despite Real rattling off six wins out of seven games in the Spanish league and netting 15 goals in their four home games, as well as another three against Olympique Marseille a few weeks ago.
"Pellegrini cannot be one more day in Madrid. If you don't understand that Kaka, Cristiano Ronaldo and Benzema have to play together, it is because you don't understand anything," blasted the television pundit Josep Pedrerol recently.
"He (Pellegrini) doesn't have clear ideas about how to play... even with Cristiano Ronaldo and Kaka, Madrid don't know how to produce a spectacle," added the influential magazine Don Balon.
The crowd at the Santiago Bernabeu have picked up on the theme, with a section of them whistling at Pellegrini whenever he emerged from the dug-out during their last two home games.
Anybody who witnessed, as I did, their 4-2 win over Valladolid on Saturday will know that Real may be able to bully their way to wins over modest teams through sheer talent alone but there is still a very real sense, if you'll pardon the bad pun, that there is little strategic thought behind the way that they are playing.
Even the music at the Bernabeu is a bit off key.
New Order tracks were the quirky order of the day last season - with the Psychedelic Furs occasionally thrown in for good measure - but on Saturday the ubiquitous Nessun Dorma was being pumped through the stadium speakers.
But for some woeful goalkeeping by Valladolid's Jacobo the outcome on Saturday might have also been a rather different and potentially embarrassing for Pellegrini.
Adding to Pellegrini's problems is the fact that Karim Benzema - with all the attention on how much was spent on Cristiano Ronaldo and Kaka it shouldn't be forgotten that their French fellow galactico also cost €35m - has put in a couple of truly dismal performances in Real's last two games.
When Pellegrini was asked at the post-match media conference what he had said to Benzema, the Chilean commented obliquely: "Individual analysis is done with the player." It's not difficult to read between the lines at what might have been said.
Benzema's body language as he shuffled past the assembled media on Saturday certainly confirmed that he'd been told in no uncertain terms that Real were not currently getting value for money from him.
He put on a very visible Gallic strop, refused to talk to anyone, and will probably be replaced in the starting line-up on Wednesday by Gonzalo Higuain.
However, Milan coach Leonardo de Araujo would be happy to swap jobs with the under-pressure Pellegrini.
The Rossoneri are floundering in eighth place in Serie A and face the prospect, although I am sure people will remind me that it's still early days, of failing to qualify for Europe for the first time since 1998.
It's a huge fall from grace for a team that has won the Champions League twice in the last seven years and reached the final in 2005.
Even the most optimistic Milan fans must be wondering what has gone wrong with a team that includes the talents of Alessandro Nesta, Andrea Pirlo, Pato and Ronaldinho. Not surprisingly, the finger is pointing fairly squarely at their Brazilian coach.
It's indicative of their woes that not a single Milan player was named among the candidates for the 2009 European Player of the Year when the 30-strong list came out on Sunday.
If Pellegrini can be reasonably certain that his job is safe until at least the winter break, Leonardo must be nervous that if Milan perform as badly as they did against Zurich, he might not be around when Real visit the Guiseppe Meazza in two weeks.
However, let's give Leonardo a bit of hope that he may hang on to his job.
Ronaldinho scored his second goal of the season on Sunday
He'll have been cheered up by seeing Ronaldinho, who also scored from the penalty spot, providing a sublime long-distance cross to set up Pato for Milan's second goal in Sunday's 2-1 win over Roma.
If the pair can link up like that again then the often-static Real defence could be in trouble.
Perhaps Ronaldinho's recently improved form is due to the fact that Brazil coach Dunga has publicly indicated that he still might be a part of their squad going to South Africa if he can recover a little of what he had during his glory days at Barca.
Ronaldinho, of course, is no stranger to the Bernabeu and has demonstrated in the past that he can turn on the style there.
His famous goal in November 2005, when he was in a Barca jersey and covered half the length of the left flank before slotting the ball past Iker Casillas - a feat which drew a standing ovation even from the Real faithful - has been played a myriad of times on Spanish TV in recent days.
If you want a reminder of what it was like, and what damage Ronaldinho can do when he puts his mind to the task, it's not hard to find it on YouTube.
Hi, I'm Phil Minshull. I've lived in Spain since 1997 and covered Spanish football since the first day I got here. My blog aims to provide some insight into what's happening in La Liga, and there is much more to it than only Real and Barcelona, as well as elsewhere around Europe.
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~02~RS~)
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ahh...just what I need to cheer me up a bit on a grey tuesday morning...the faint, faint hope that Real Madrid might fail this year
cheers phil!
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Good choice for a match to comment - On face value, no other tie can put 16 European Cups on the table.
As a Real Madrid fan I have a lot of respect for Milan, our bitter rivals in Europe along with Bayern. However, I don't think they are doing too well and their aged squad is starting to give signs of alarm. I don't think they'll be too pleased to see Inter going for yet another scudetto without providing any challenge.
Ronaldinho deserved his ovation in the Bernabeu. We are a demanding crowd, yes, because we apprciate good football even i it comes from the rivals. In a Beckham-like situation, Ronaldinho stll has the talentbut his beter days have long gone. The diference with Beckham is in the effort, dedication and general profesionalism the players show, with the Englisman way ahead.
Pellegri has his critics also in the Madrid press, but please noe Josep Prederol is a Barcelona supporter and Don baon is also published in Barcelona. I don't want to say they have a biased view (not as bad as the daily sports papers) but I'd take them with a pinch of salt. The problem with Pellegrini is he does not seem clear on which tactic to chose. The blogs in Spain are full of different views.
I am read to give him time. Of course we are wining games but we cannot hide the fact tht isdown to the ability up front and not by creating chances or domination of the games. When te ball is in the box and the likes of Ronaldo, Raul, Benzema, Higuain or Kaka are presented wit a chance they are liklely to take it.
Now for the two sides this will be a chance to wake up, to stand and be counted. Milan come in need after losing at home to Zurich (0-1) nd they are likely to accept a draw. Real Madrid will not; they will want win and seal all but top spot in the group. I think one by one we have the better players and we play at home, so we should win by 2. But this is football, no maths, so we'll see... I am looking forward to it.
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If ever Ronaldihno reaches half of what he was, then I think real will be in for a shock. Again, if kaka can do what he know best, it will be an appetizing game....
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Point of correction- Photo said Ronaldinho scored his first goal of the season on sunday- completely untrue, that was his second goal he got the equalizer against Atlanta the week before the international break. We all make mistakes but this is too petty so check you facts before you start writing please.
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Since Ancellotti's departure Milan just arn't the same side anymore. Added to that Kaka's move to Real along with the other big names this is an exciting project in Spain.
Real 2-0 - comfortable.
http://sportales.com/soccer/chelsea-can-win-the-lottie-now/
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"The Rossoneri are floundering in eighth place in Serie A and face the prospect, although I am sure people will remind me that it's still early days, of failing to qualify for Europe for the first time since 1998".
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Phil
Milan did not play in the champions league last season, they came fifth and missed out. Fiorentina qualified instead.
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What a shame, Madrid go out an buy all the stars they can without thinking where they can fit in.....
Higuain was sheer class last season but has been dropped, ridiculous.
Surely their best formation would be a 4-2-3-1 with Alonso and Diarra in front of the back 4 with Ronny, Kaka and Raul off of Higuain/Benzema.
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6. At 10:15am on 20 Oct 2009, mohtechnix wrote:
"The Rossoneri are floundering in eighth place in Serie A and face the prospect, although I am sure people will remind me that it's still early days, of failing to qualify for Europe for the first time since 1998".
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Phil
Milan did not play in the champions league last season, they came fifth and missed out. Fiorentina qualified instead.
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Doesn't he mean Europe altogether?
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6. At 10:15am on 20 Oct 2009, mohtechnix wrote:
"The Rossoneri are floundering in eighth place in Serie A and face the prospect, although I am sure people will remind me that it's still early days, of failing to qualify for Europe for the first time since 1998".
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Phil
Milan did not play in the champions league last season, they came fifth and missed out. Fiorentina qualified instead.
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mohtechnix
Milan DID play in Europe last season - they were in the UEFA Cup. Read what Phil Minshull actually says...
As for the knives being out for Pellegrini, and heavy criticism of Real and Benzema - all of this just makes me laugh. I, and many other United fans I'm sure, have a heavy distaste for Real Madrid for many (obvious) reasons. But this kind of attitude, if true, just says it all. Benzema is a young lad just joined a new league from a different country. Already people are on his back? Ridiculous! And the manager is under pressure for his job? After 6 wins from the first 7 games? Absurd!
Real Madrid is not a proper football club as far as Im concerned. I hope they win nothing this season. Again.
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mohtechnix read the article properly he stating not qualifying for europe full stop. Not just the champions league you idiot!
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My bad..I should have reead it porperly.
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mohtexnik
The Rossoneri are floundering in eighth place in Serie A and face the prospect, although I am sure people will remind me that it's still early days, of failing to qualify for Europe for the first time since 1998".
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Phil
Milan did not play in the champions league last season, they came fifth and missed out. Fiorentina qualified instead.
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He said failing to qualify for "EUROPE" and not the CL. EUROPE meaning either the Cl or UEFA CUP(europa cup).
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It's always nice for the purists to see a team fail when they attempt to buy success. Still, I think it's too early to write off Madrid yet - is it that the players can't play together, or do they simply need time to gel?
http://sportales.com/soccer/ucl-uefa-champions-league-200910-draw-preview-and-odds-groups-a-c/
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Don Balón and Pedrerol are pro-Barça sources. They are a very poor indicator of any trouble at Real Madrid. Phil, you've been in Spain long enough to know that, so why are you trying to take us for a ride?
Many Madrid fans are extremely impatient, and so is the media, but this is like quoting U.S. sources as an indicator of trouble in Cuba.
Hopefully Madrid will win comfortably, but I'm not going to put my house on it. Recent years have seen Juve and Roma sides 'in crisis' walk away from the Bernabéu with comfortable victories under their belts. I wouldn't want us to resurrect yet another Italian side. Ronaldinho SHOULD be motivated (but he's let football fans down so many times already...) and even if his fitness isn't 100% he can still provide some defence splitting passes and can be lethal on dead balls, and Milan has some dangerous attackers.
Win or lose though, as a Madrid fan I can only advise and hope our executives show patience. Madrid supporters are too used too being treated like spoilt children whose daddy will just buy a new toy as soon as we get fed up with the 'old' one. And in the age of consumerism, 'old' can mean just a couple of months. It's been precisely that attitude that has led the club to underachieve for half a decade now.
For all the money spent, we mustn't forget that we've assembled an almost entirely new team, with an extremely young defence and a lot of young players with a very bright future ahead of them, under a new manager. We shouldnt be demanding results straight away. Ýes, there'll be sections of the Bernabéu who'll start booing players after a few poor performances. Spoilt brats are best ignored.
Pellegrini needs at least two trouble-free years to shape the squad and get the players familiar with the style he wants to instil. He's doing very well up to now, making full use of the squad at his disposal and making sure that every player has hands-on experience of what they have to do when they're called for.
I couldn't think of a better way to begin. Play might not be spectacular and we have to be ready to take a few tough defeats on our chin, but in time patience will pay dividends.
Hopefully Pellegrini will also start blooding players from our youth system. Madrid fans are growing tired of people like Eto'o, Granero, Negredo, Parejo or Arbeloa, to give just a few recent names from an extremely long list, succeeding at other clubs because they can't get the chances they need at home.
I for one have a lot of faith in Pellegrini - let the man do his work. It really can't be a coincidence that Villarreal with the same or if anything an improved squad, are anchored to the bottom of the table now he's left.
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Milan have no chance against Real. They have put in so many poor performances this season, including a 4-0 hammering by arch rivals Inter. The squad simply does not have the same ability as previous years, with a mix of ageing players (Favalli 37, Inzaghi 36), former superstars (Ronaldinho) and young whippersnappers who have not made the grade yet (Pato). Any team who has to rely on a 36 and 20 year old to score their goals is in serious trouble and Milan have only scored 6 in 8 games in the domestic league this season. I wouldn't put it past Real to put 5 past Milan... we'll see tomorrow.
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well I for one can't rule out a surprise victory for Milan despite their lustrous performance this season and i shall give it a very well balance of games due to the experience of this stage they been up to with quality all around the team also look out for young wonder kid in Alex Pato
so i won't be surprise to see Ronnie( Dinho ) providing yet another magic of his own.
Ortega
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As number 14 says, thre are silly fans everywhere - The bigger the cub, the higher the chances you have to find silly fans. Or do Man Utd only have the best of the best?
Most of Real Madrid fans are confident Benzema will turn into a great player. They will also support Pellegrii, as heis new to the club and th players, although stars for many clubs, have not been picked by him (who would sy no to Ronaldo, though) and also need the time to gel. We just want Pellegrii to makea decision on the tactics he wants to play, as there is the place where he seems a bit lost. I do support the rotations policy; the players eed heir form later on.
As for buying success - Name a top team that don't sign plyers. iverpool have bought Torres, Alonso and Mascherano recently, along many middle level players (an they are my Premiership team). Did United find Berbatov, Anderson, Rooney, vn der Saar, Nani, Vidic or Ferdinand in a wrap of a Mars bar? Even Barcelona: Hleb, Henry, Pique, Chyrginsky, Caceres, Alves, Keita, Ibrahimovic... They have also been bought and not on the cheap.
The obvious reasons for (some) United fans to hate Real Madrid are probably the same that Tottenham, Everton or any other club where United have gone with the million of pounds and bought their star players. Let's not be silly. I also take it as a compliment - Outside traditional rivalries, a team is hated when it is succesful.
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Milan vs Madrid is a mouth watering game. Emotions will be high when Kaka faces his old mates and Ronaldinho returns to the place where he has already tormented the home team. The match will depend on how well the 'Samba Boys' play for their teams.
Ronaldinho should be playing in that Brazil team in World Cup, Africa. So let's hope he gives performance that he's capable of!!!
I am sitting on the fence for this one - highly entertaining 1-1 draw.
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I hope real fall flat on their faces. Perez is a monster who thinks that he can buy whatever he wants. This ornamental team is no differnet the team they fielded during last 3 years of his reign last time.
The one class team they faced so far (sevilla, who I fell are the best equipped to challenge barca) gave them such a lesson I suspect real fragile confidence is completly gone now. Casillas single handedly kept it down to 2-1 with a string of superb saves.
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@ Diegodf, #17:
Fair points, I suppose. No, Im not saying all United fans are beyond reproach - we have our fair share of ignorant fans, too. All clubs do, as you say.
But the way Real conduct their business has always left a nasty taste in the mouth - whether it be the bulldozing transfer policy that secured the likes of both Ronaldos, Figo, Zidane - or the way your club sacks coaches left, right and centre even when they are successful (see Del Bosque, Capello) and then moan about why you aren't winning titles every season.
Yes, of course United (and Barca, and other big clubs) buy players. All clubs do. But there is at least an attempt to commit to a youth policy of sorts at clubs like United and Barca. For all the imported names you mentioned in your post, you failed to mention the home-grown talents - Giggs, Scholes, Neville, Brown, O'Shea, Evans etc etc. Or Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Pique, Valdes, Puyol, Busquets etc etc. Where is the equivalent list at Real in the past 5 seasons? Yes, Raul and Guti and Casillas. But who else?
Finally - of course I will accept that Real Madrid is the most successful club in European football history, and one of the biggest in the world. But whilst you are 100% correct when you say that: "I also take it as a compliment - Outside traditional rivalries, a team is hated when it is succesful." - Real Madrid has been NOWHERE NEAR as sucessful in recent years as Manchester United. And Barca have been very successful - but I dont hate them. I wonder why....
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Not sure who wrote the caption, but Sunday was 'Dinho's 2nd goal of the season, he scored at Atalanta a couple of weeks ago. Milan need to at least split the points over the two games with Real to stay on course to qualify. I fancy a score draw tomorrow then a Milan win back at San Siro.
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It's a quite an early reply this week but hopefully, unlike many Real Madrid feelings towards Benzema, you'll feel you are getting value-for-money as I'm also going to follow up on the match itself on Thursday morning
Firstly, there's a bit of unfinished business to take care of. In a blog last month, I was critical of Cristiano Ronaldo's early appearances in a Real Madrid jersey.
I'd like to believe he'd read what I wrote and pulled his socks up but I somehow doubt it. Nevertheless, the weekend after I wrote those words and also prompted some comments in his defence, he started to play far, far better. Real have certainly missed him in the last couple of weeks since he suffered his ankle injury.
Since we are back on the topic of Real, I thought this was a good time to put my hands up and say to all those people who thought I was a bit premature in castuing him into the pit of damnation and say, “you were right.”
Onto some of this week's comments...
Diegodf & It's only a game - life can be marvellous: You are right to point out that Josep Pedrerol is born-and-bred in Barcelona and that Don Balon is published in Barcelona. It's therefore no surprise that there might just be an ever-so-slightly bias behind their comments about Pellegrini.
However, Pedrerol and Don Balon are generally quite well-balanced in their views so it's also a surprise to see them raising their voices against Pellegrini to such a pitch.
They are far from isolated voices in the wilderness and, from my perspective, it still looks as though Pellegrini usually puts 11 players onto the pitch without any specific game plan. This philosophy was badly exposed against Sevilla, two weeks ago, when they lost 2-1, although admittedly without Cristiano Ronaldo.
THEHOOLIGUNNER: Kaka is up against his old club and I wonder what's going through his mind as he has been typically discrete about what he's said about Milan since arriving in Madrid. He should have recovered from his recent trip to Brazil for international duty, which is why he was on the bench and only played around 20 minutes on Saturday, and I'll probably pick up on what he does on Thursday for better or for worse.
It's only a game - life can be marvellous (again): “Pellegrini needs at least two trouble-free years to shape the squad and get the players familiar with the style he wants to instil.” In an ideal world I'm sure that's what Pellegrini would want as well but you and I know that coaching at Villarreal is very different from being at the helm of Real Madrid and he's not going to get such a luxury from Florentino Perez.
Perez's track record from his first stint as club president suggests that while he may be much more suave and sophisticated about the way he does things, he's still got the typical Spanish football club president 'Hire-And-Fire' mentality.
Here's a link about Perez and his coaches (a translated version of what appeared in a sports sports daily today) which may be interesting.
http://www.goal.com/en/news/12/spain/2009/10/20/1572207/president-florentino-perez-removed-real-madrid-coachs
PS Many people have been talking about the scoreline. I've just done a quick and very unscientific sample of bookies, and they all make Real Madrid favourites to win by at least one goal. Spread betting bookmakers have them winning by between one and two goals. (I'm not going to explain spread betting here, but many of you will know what I'm talking about.) If, like Spoonmehead, you think that Real could win by two, three or more goals, there might be some good value-for money bets out there.
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Real Madrid had a ploicy of outh always - It is in the las few years that it has gone very wrong. We have let the likes of Mata, Negredo, Diego Lopez and many others leave. I do accept we made our fair share of mistakes here (even if Granero, Arbeloa or De la Red have returned to the club)
Thinking big clubs (or small ones) do no tap up players when they tranfer them is a bit naive. Liverpool are my Premiership team; Torres said something on the lines "when Benitez called me I thought it was a joke"... that call happened before Liverpool had been given permision o talk to Torres by Atletico Madrid. How did Fergusn sign Berbatov? Wasn't he expected on the other side of Manchester? Didn't he pass a medical wthout an offer accepted by Spurs? That left a bit of bad taste in the mouth of Spurs fans, I can assure you.
Real Madrid have been probably as succesful as Man Utd in the last few years. We don't have a league Cup to play for (meaningless, like the Spanish Supercup or the Charity Shield) bu we have won te League a few times. I don't know whee this "Nowhere" comes from... You have won oneChampion leaue in the last 11 sasons. Since the mircale recovery at the Nou Camp aginst Bayern and the miracle penalty kick from Terry, we won it 3 times. Yes, in the past an all that - But he difference isn't that big, is it?
You are of course entitled to your likes. I dslike Man Utd and Arsenal but when they play well, I appreciate it. The same with Barcelona; they were a joy to watch last season and I cannot take off them.
I like/dislike teams (hate is a bit too far for me) regardless of their success. I have sympathy for Hull because I live here; I have sympathy for Sporting Gijon or Oviedo in Spain because I like the region and the people there; I have sympathy for Liverpool ad Nottingham Forest since childhood... I was never keen on United or Arsenal; I liked Liverpol and Tottenham and I didn't even know those 2 are bitter rivals of the other 2.
We will never agree on our likes/dislikes/hates and that is fine. I have many Barcelona friends and its fun to take the micky out of each other - sometime they are on top, sometimes we are. I'd rather any of the other 3 English teams won the Champions league over United, and you perhaps would prefer anyone but Real Madrid. Who knows, we may meet in the final or maybe none of us will be there.
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The moment Benzema AND Higuain play together, that'll be the moment when things will finally kick off for us. Raul has NO place in the squad, let alone the starting team... I still can't understand this obsession from the media and "some" fans to always give Raul a chance when frankly he hasn't performed well at all. And do excuse me, but scoring 2 goals almost empty netted against the likes of Valladolid and the rest doesn't really cut it for me.
That's our main problem... Let Benzema and Higuain play together and you'll see what this Real Madrid can accomplish!!
Ask any true Real Madrid fan the source of our problems and they will only give you one answer: Raul!
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Re: post 21
Thanks LukasPodolski20, I have amended the caption on the Ronaldinho photo.
Ian W - BBC Sport
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Phil, as a milanista for over 38 years, I can tell you that our fingers are not pointing squarely at the Brazilian coach, they are pointing squarely at Adriano Galliani (most of all) and Silvio Berlusconi, both of whom are long on propaganda, but short on delivering concrete plans (and funds) for improving a team that is in need of a massive facelift.
In one of their masterpieces of propaganda, they coined the phrase a few years ago that Milan is "il club piu' titolato del mondo", i.e. the club which has one more international trophies (all inclusive) than any other club in the world (even more than Real Madrid)
Whether it is true or not, I have never actually checked, as it is not only pointless (especially if you are counting things like the Mitropa Cup...who even remembers what that was ?), but it also is deliberately intended to reinforce a strategy of sitting on our laurels, and hoping that the past equals the future.
Well, the last couple of years have definitively proven that the past does not equal the future. In the interests of balancing the books, Galliani and Berlusca have adopted a spendthrift transfer market policy, and what started as cracks in the armour have now become gaping holes.
This policy has gradually drained ambition from the club....Carletto Ancelotti saw it and moved on, and Kaka' saw it coming too, and ultimately was pushed out by the dynamic duo to help balance the books.
The players left behind are ghosts. Milan on normal matchdays are almost unwatchable....most of our "stars" walk around the pitch completely disinterested, and home games aginst the likes of FC Zurich and AC Bari become reasons for fear rather than an opportunity to watch a few goals banged in.
It is only the Champions League that seems to stir any passion in the players any more....and Milan have always had a history of rising to the big occasions in the CL (especially Super Pippo !), so I am not altogether without hope....my heart tells me we might take something away from the Bernabeu, but my head is telling me we'll get thrashed.
But whatever happens....we won't be blaming Leo....he is after all a former Curva Sud idol, but with no previous coaching experience who is doing his best with a very difficult hand. I don't think he is the man for this job honestly, but it is Galliani and Berlusca who put him there because they didn't want to pay big money for a proven manager.
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There's an awful lot of similarities between Man U and Real Madrid, both have ridden roughshod over the other teams in their league in terms of transfer policy. Just ask Tottenham Hotspurs fans what they think of the Man U transfer policy. They are two of the biggest clubs in world football and two of the most decorated. The reason Man U fans hate Real Madrid is fairly obvious to all, a very good player chose Real over their team. Can Man U fans honestly tell me they wouldn't be excited if their team had just gone out and bought three of the world's best players?
That said I think it will be a close game tonight, can see Real Madrid walking it if they click, but Milan have a few tricks up their sleeves, and I would pay to watch Ronaldinho play in his 80s. The things he does with the ball leave me flabbergasted, football the way it should be played.
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I wonder what's going on with Benzema, he is in a ad for a bank here and the acting is woeful. He didn't want to play against Serbia and found it hard concentrate, and now I hear he is not so good at Madrid. Maybe he misses mamas home cooking, but a guy playing like that is good news for the Irish. Hope it translates to the whole french squad.
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on #6.
Allow me to take this one phil. "European competition" means either the Champions League or the UEFA cup, now the Europa League. In eight place, they would miss both competitions, or no European competition. Fifth place still qualifies for the Europa League.
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With Kaka on the wrong side it is too much to to entertain any hopes for Milan. Do Milan ever defend dourly? A draw will be equal to a win.
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At # 28... I agree with you that he's probably having some kind of concentration issues, but I think it's gotta do more with Madrid's current system. Benzema is the kind of forward who relies on speed of game, with the the ability to create plays for himself. Him and Raul together are not compatible at all, as Raul slows down the game whenever he's in possession...
With Higuain on the pitch, I think our game would gain far more speed, thus helping the likes of Benzema, Kaka and Higuain himself, not to mention CR9 when he comes back from the injury list.
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'Even the most optimistic Milan fans must be wondering what has gone wrong with a team that includes the talents of Alessandro Nesta, Andrea Pirlo, Pato and Ronaldinho. Not surprisingly, the finger is pointing fairly squarely at their Brazilian coach.'
Therein lies the problem, you list the four star players of this team and you realise it isnt a star team.
Nesta and Pirlo are both heading the wrong way towards retirement fast (or at least they should be), Pato - undoubtedly full of talent but still a few years on the young side to be the figurehead of a serie A/champions league winning team and Ronaldinho isnt even close to the world class player he was 3-4 years ago. In short Milan don't have the world class players to really mix it with the big boys, and is in someway reflected by through Italian Football as a whole with even last years champions elect Inter being brushed aside comfortably by United in the knock out stages
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Benzema has never proven himself out of France and even their he didn't dominate the league like a Messi or a CR have done in Spain and England respectively. Still don't see where this huge hype has come from, it's especially prominent over here. I'd take Higuain over him any day, Benzema has been dreadful so far for Real.
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Gonzalo Higuain.
I think someone mentioned him before, but i just wanted to say that i beleive him to be one of the best strikers in football today (did anyone see his goal at the weekend!) he has proven this in last seasons campaign scoring some very vital goals to keep the title chase alive, i remember a 90th minute screamer to win 3-2 (just 1 example i know) Benzema hasnt proven his ability yet but at 35 million euros then they surely have to play the boy. raul will play regardless as he is the king of madrid and higuain sadly has to come on and do the business. benzema has shown touches of class but is used to being very much the center of attention at Lyon especially. standing out as a world class player when there is so much talent around you clearly shows how good you are (zidane anyone)
I hope real go onto great things and really test Barca this year. As for the Milan game, i go for a predictable 1-0 real.
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I challenge any football fan to watch the build-up to Raul's second goal against Valladolid and not be inspired. The first-touch football was breathtaking.
Admittedly, they did look weak and pervious at times, but it is a new season and a new team/coach. If my team could play football like that and score 4 goals then I wouldn't be whining.
It seems that its the in-thing to hate Real at the moment... a shame I reckon, as those who do will be blinded to some exceptionally good football.
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Benzema will come good, he is quality. As one poster astutely pointed out, a lot of the problem has been the complete incompatibility of Benzema with Raul. Real need to drop Raul to the bench and play Higuain with Benzema.
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@ diegodf
I think most of what you say is hilarious ..
For a start, Real Madrid have been nowhere near the dizzy heights that Manchester United have reached in the last few years. Fact.
1 CL in 11 years? I suppose that could be countered with, you haven't since 2001? United also made two finals back to back, only beaten by the team that won your league and the cup.
I'm not a United fan, but really, are you trying to say that Madrid are better at this moment in time, or over the last 5 years even? You can't be that dillusional .. sorry.
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I will be Milan Fans when the two meet in Wednesday. Go Ronaldinho, you can do the damage against Real.
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After the victory against Roma i beleive we go into the Bernabeu more in expectation than hope.I do believe there'll be more space to play than against the stifling defences in Serie A.It promises to be an enthralling encounter.By the way we seem to play better with Gattuso outta the side...hopefully Leonardo's noticed as well.
Most of Milan's problems lie at Galliani's and Berlusconi's feet...if they loosen the purse strings and stop giving contract extensions to Guiseppe Favalli who has to be 145 years old Milan will be fine.
On Benzema am i the only one that thinks he's a tad overweight?As for dropping Raul that's nonsense.He's started the season on fire and if Benzema doesnt like it he should be dropped and Higuain takes his place!
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6 - mohtechnix... although milan missed out on the champions league last year they qualified for the UEFA cup thats what he meant by europe
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Being a Manchester United fan the Real v Milan game will be a cracker. I will be watching my beloved red devils on Wednesday but will be keeping a watchful eye on the other game. Being an avid footballing fan who keeps up with La Liga and Serie A – what is happening with both Real and Milan? Milan just about scraped their weekend win v Roma 2-1 but were not convincing at all. They have lost that Kaka spark and with Inzaghi reaching the latter stages of his career they need a proven goalscorer. Ronaldinho, what a talent – unfortunately no longer the same man from World Cup 02 and the Champions league winning campaign of 06 with Barcelona.
I keep a watchful eye on Real and Ronny. Ronaldo may have left Old Trafford but not forgotten, a complete superb player and definitely deserves the title of world class. He did have his shenanigans of diving, moaning etc etc but he delivered when it mattered. Scored in all the big games for United, scored in FA Cup final win, Carling Cup final win and a Champions League final win. Is he better then Messi? I don’t think so but maybe that’s me being biased?
Real won over the weekend but again same as Milan not convincing – their attack is strong but they need to be consistent in defence. If they get that part of their game in working order I think they will be a force as an all round team rather then their attacking prowess.
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Just to throw my few last cents out there... As a Real Madrid fan I'm coming into this match with huge expectations, heck I think we should and must win at home by a comfortable 2-0, any less than that and I'll be pretty disappointing.
Now, if I were a Milan fan I think what I would expect tomorrow and probably wished is for my team to get demolished and show them their true colors, so Galliani and co. finally realize that this Milan squad is pretty much done.
Let's face it, Milan is nowhere near the team they were 4-5 years ago with the likes of Kaka, Sheva and co., a much younger team with incredible depth. As of right now, you can't blame Leonardo for having such a weak squad full of has been's on it. They need some serious rejuvenation process, starting by dumping some 6-7 players who aren't Milan material... the sooner the better. Half mediocre results during this CL campaign with a possible top 4 finish in the Serie A can only extend the lack of some thoughtful signings, including this coming winter.
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I am an Internazionale supporter, but many of us (Inter supporters) have just a little envy of AC Milan and know that they can be as deadly as a wounded lion when they are on the ropes. However, I don't think that the game against Roma gave them any confidence since in my opinion, AS Roma played a better game and were unlucky.
I think Madrid will win unless Seedorf has one of his now rare (2-3 per season) spectacular games. Then all bets are off.
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Phil,
I am surprised to hear that you have been living in Spain for so long and don’t know where the allegiances lie yet! Josep Pedrerol is as biased towards Barcelona as Manolo Lama is to Real Madrid. I can clearly remember when Real Madrid met Barcelona in a Champions League semi-final at the turn of the millennium and we were playing at home against them. Raul scored a cracker near the end of the half time but all the comments coming from him where about how blooming wonderful Barcelona were and how rubbish Madrid was . That smacked me of fanatism and I remember complaining to Canal Plus and receiving an apology from them about it – so please let me take his words with a bucketload of salt!
Saying that Real Madrid lacks a youth system is a bit unfair as well, what we lack is the vision to put them in the pitch and give them the confidence anyone would need at that age. Look at Guardiola and his choices with players like Pedro already making an impact.
One last thing that no one mentions, for Barcelona’s system to succeed you need players of incredible quality such as Iniesta, Xavi and Messi, there have been a few cracks this season already when they haven’t played their top game or one of them have been missing. The season when Man Utd played them in that woeful semi-final with that only goal from Scholes Barcelona finished 18 points behind Madrid in the league and they had almost the same players – so I for one think we can take on them this season, it is going to be hard but I think we have a chance.
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Luis, so I suppose Raúl is responsible for our shortage of goals this season, and our shortage of goals is the reason we're struggling?
Hello? 29 goals in 9 games and 8 wins in 9 games
3 goals on average in the Liga and 4 goals on average in the CL.
At this rate we'd break every scoring record in League and CL history.
But Raúl is the problem!
The Sevilla game came early and it was always going to be tough. If you think that all of the new signings should gel together after less than 10 competitive games and play like Brazil'70, then you've got something coming. If you're arrogant enough to think we should steamroll Sevilla, just look at their track record over the past few seasons.
They also happen to have beaten us in 7 of our last 10 meetings. By the way, Raúl had scored 4 goals in our previous 2 meetings with Sevilla.
It's been published that Pérez wants Raúl to play a minor role this year; if I'm not mistaken even Valdano or Pellegrini said something in this vein. So why's he starting? Pellegrini certainly couldn't have had it easier if he'd wanted to put him on the bench. I for one don't know better than Pellegrini but to make a change, a few thousand people at the Bernabéu think they do.
Our problems are notoriously defensive, we offer our rivals far too much space between our midfield and back four. Either the back 4 need to step up, or our midfielders need to step back. Set pieces will always cause us problems, because we don't have an authoritative keeper in the air, but since he's probably the best shot-stopper in the world, I think it's something we'll have to live with.
As for slow, old and finished Raúl:
47 goals in the past 2 seasons, and not just against Valladolid:
14 in his last 24 Champions League matches (nearly 0.6gpg).
2nd scorer in the team this season, and a couple of assists thrown in too.
Also the best defensive forward on the team last year, the year before and probably the best since Zamorano.
Of course there will be games where Higuaín and Benzema will work well together, but blaming all of the team's woe's on a single player is ridiculous. It makes me very sad to see Madrid fans joining in on the national pastime of knocking Raúl.
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This is an invitation to a football training camp on the beach and friendly matches in excellent stadiums in Cadiz, Spain. Look here for more information. http://orvaz.com/beachsoccer/.
Start thinking about sand, sunshine and SOCCER!
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This is an invitation to a football training camp on the beach and friendly matches in excellent stadiums in Cadiz, Spain. Look here for more information. http://orvaz.com/beachsoccer/.
Start thinking about sand, sunshine and SOCCER!
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I see the Raul debate has also reached the BBC formus... I think Raul is an example, but also a block for other players. His work rate is non comparable to any other player but he takes no part in the development of the game. He can read it better than the rest, and so he gets in the places to score his goals. Is that enough to merit his place in the team? I am not sure - either way.
Last night's game was a bad one. The amount of bad passes both teams gave was way too high for two great sides. The ref was poor, too - He didn't give a penalty of Zambortta on Benzema and he compensated by disallowing a perfectly good goal in a corner. Then the brawl (if that's the word) that happened afterwards was resolved in the typical UEFA fashion: A yellow for each side. Nesta and Ronaldinho were the most offensive there, though.
But the ref waas bad for both sides so he cannot be an excuse. Real Madrid controlled the game for 1 hour, but just. Raul's goal was a gift from Dida but nobody else was paying attention. That is an argument for his supporters. Once Pirlo scored (a cracker; what a player he still is) the game went mad. Pato's first goal was incredible. I would never expect Ambrosini able to pass the ball like that... but I would expect Marcelo to be clueless on the defensive side of his job. Casillas went out the box and then had second thoughts (red card threat) so it as a simple tap in. Pellegrini brought Drenthe in. I didn't understand that, neither I understood why he took the freekick when you have thelikes of Kaka, Alonso or even Benzema to blast the ball. I was pleasently surprised when he, from all the people, scored to make it 2-2.
Real madrid then went for the winner and Kaka had a couple of good chances. But Milan took the chance in the fast breaks - They should have had their goal allowed in the corner but still they found one more through Pato and a wrong off-side shout. He was just about onside.
So what went wrong from the Real Madrid point of view? Ramos shouldn't play as right back because at crossing the ball he is poor; Marcelo cannot deffend at left back, Pepe is still over-excited (he was thefirst one to join the fight) and Albiol is not at his level yet. I would chose Lass-Ramos-Pepe or Albiol-Arbeloa for the back 4. I would put Lass on right back because he is marking Xabi Alonso at midfield; they seem to crash into each other, losing fluency in the game. I would chose Alonso and Kaka ahed of him. Then Ronaldo, very missed yesterday, and Marcelo would play in the wings. Higuain (another big loss yesterday) and Benzema up-front. I like Granero, so he would still fit in the squad, as would Guti, Raul and van Nistelrooy. But with a lesser role.
Anyway, the magic of football is that 2+2 is rarely 4. There is always a return leg... and the hope that this defeat will act as a wake up call to Pellegrini, so he can sort his tactics out sooner rather than later.
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I'm not going to go into a blow-by-blow account of last night's game. I've included some links below of various match reports.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/8319583.stm
http://goal.com/en/news/1716/champions-league/2009/10/21/1575519/real-madrid-2-3-ac-milan-pato-double-helps-sink-blancos
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/oct/22/champions-league-real-madrid-ac-milan
http://www.sportinglife.com/football/overseas/spain/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=soccer/09/10/21/SOCCER_Champions_League_Review.html
However, what was interesting to note was the comments of Real coach Manuel Pellegrini, who said after the game: "Every defeat is worrying. Both teams (Sevilla and Milan) are more settled than we are and they've played together for a lot longer. I don't consider it something normal, it's worrying and we have to continue improving."
What this means is, Real have come up short this season whenever they have face a good team.
Beating relegation-threatened Valladolid in half-hearted fashion last Saturday is one thing; beating Milan, despite the comments here that their key players are past their sell by date they still have talent in abundance, is another.
Milan did look slow for large periods during the first hour. It looked as though Madrid were just about to find another gear and canter to victory, just as they had done against Olympique Marseille, but then Pirlo's goal from nowhere (Milan hardly threatened in the first 15 minutes of the second half) changed everything
Another point, which was obvious, is that Real are now also struggling for fire power with Benzema woefully off-form, as well as Cristiano Ronaldo, Van Nistelrooy and Higuain currently injured. I wonder what Pellegrini was thinking when he saw Klaas Jan Huntelaar on the Milan bench last night?
Suddenly, Saturday's La Liga match at Sporting Gijon doesn't look so easy, especially as the hosts are unbeaten at home this season and have only conceded two goals in El Molinon.
By contrast, the win will have taken some of the pressure off Milan coach Leonardo. His men have two consecutive away trips in Serie A to Chievo and Napoli looming up, neither team is a pushover, but he'll probably be feeling a lot more optimistic that four points from the next six is possible, which will get their domestic campaign back on track and get Milan's fans and the media off his back, to a greater extent.
Personally, I saw enough deficiencies in Milan last night - as has been pointed out, far too many key players are over 30 – for me not to consider them as serious candidates for the Scudetto. They don't appear likely to progress very far in the knock out stages of the Champions League either.
I'm not sure the apparently imminent arrival of David Beckham will help their quest for trophies greatly, as the likes of Nesta and Zambrotta, not to mention the always error-prone Dida, are not the players they once were and better equipped teams will still be able to pick them apart.
Inzaghi was poor as well last night and it's notable that his departure immediately preceded Milan's resurrection.
Nevertheless, neither Pirlo nor Seedorf are ready to be sent off to the knacker's yard and last night's display also served to show up the inadequacies of Real, despite €270 million being invested on players during the summer.
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Phil- you've got a point with regards to Real lacking firepower at the moment, especially with Benzema's poor form, but I don't think there's any club in the world that wouldn't be short on attacking options when you take three top-class strikers out of the equation for them. I don't think it's really a long-term problem, as none of them seem to be really injury-prone- it's just unfortunate that they're all out at the same time.
Whilst I initially thought that the new Madrid team wouldn't take too long to gel, you can see why they haven't- you've got several individual talents and egos with massive price tags who feel the need to prove that they are worth what Real paid for them. Until they can get over that- and pressure on the manager isn't going to help that- they are unlikely to start to play well together.
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I have to disagree with some of the points made here.
The fact that MILAN played slow at the beginning didn't surprise me. Fact is that at the start of the 2nd half I wrote in one live score forum that, "...I hope the score stays 1:0 for another 15-20 min. Then MILAN will change the gear"
I see that only explanation given here is that Pirlo's goal somehow changed the game. What if I tell you that MILAN were playing the game in certain tactical manner, following a game plan which suits them most and eventually they outsmarted Real and Pellegrini and succeeded?
Milan initially tried to kill the pace of the game and put Real into sleep, because we all know it's suicidal to get involved in а high tempo end to end action with Real at Bernabeu. If the game turns to be "who will score most" it ис really naive for any team to believe that could outscore Real at their stadium.
Real got relaxed after 1:0 as it looked like MILAN cannot treathen at all and is only trying to limit humuliation. But why would MILAN play with it’s most offensive formation if they not intend to attack? Pato, Ronnie, Inzaghi and Seedorf – this is something you will see very rarely in our starting formation. It was a huge gamble by Leonardo ut it paid off at the latter stages of the game.
Of course MILAN can create chances and put ANY TEAM under pressure, there's no doubt about that. Point is when is the right moment to do it, especially playing away against team like Real. Seriously did you really thought that in the first 60 min MILAN gives it all but Real are simply impacable? But why playing all the cards from the beginning against team that playing at home and powerful enough to punish every stupid move? MILAN indeed have to consider the age of some if his key players when buidling it’s gameplan in games like this when techichal superiority which is our main weapon is not a given thing. Focus on controlling part of the game – preferably the end, is much wiser and effective if do it in a proper way. In the same way Milan went gung-ho on MU for the first 20 min at SAN SIRO in the semis in 2007 and finished the game there.
A team capalble of controling and defining tempo and gameplay has a powerful weapon. It’s just what MILAN did last night and it worked. Very few teams can do it because it requires to have very special players with a tons of experience to do this. For me Pirlo and Seedorf along with Pato were the best players last night. They put MILAN into gear midthrough the second half and that was not unintentional. It is riksy but football is not science. MILAN have tried this many other times – against very strong opposition. Sometimes it works sometimes not.
I could only say – Bravo to Leonardo and the team for playing such wise game which brought so much joy to the Rossoneri. Milan led Real by the nose from the start till the end and it worked!!!
I see Phill and others say that Real lacks offensive power and they are not still the scary team they could be...really? Well look at the table of La Liga then – best offense in Spain, goals scored are twice more than most other teams, conceeded only six, best goal differense and trailing just one point behind certain Barcelona – cosidered best team in the world at the moment. No surprise that they are the best offensive team in CL as well with 10 goals scored in 3 games and before last night Real actually were the team with best statisics in the entire competition. Suddenly comes AC MILAN, wins in style at Bernabeu and conclusion is – „Real are no good” ??? Come on. Should be more than that. Real is a goalscoring machine and if don’t know how the handle them you’ll get trashed and nobody would be surprised at the end.
I can bet with you that Real won’t lose any other CL game this season at Bernabeu no matter who they play. Mark my words.
MILAN game is lot more than most people see above surface. This story of MILAN being aged is coming back and back for at least 4-5 years now. In the meantime we played 3 CL finals, won 2, not to mention all other cup and trophies. It is not quality that Milan lacks. It’s consistancy unfortunately. Yet I don’t accept the comment about Nesta – he was again one of the best last night, he is really immense these days and I wouldn’t swap him for any defender in the world at the moment. He is still better than any of the Real defenders from last night will ever be. Football is not athletics – not yet.
But I agree that Milan cannot fight for the Scudetto – even only because most italian teams are more difficult to overcome tactically than many teams in CL.
CL – I don’t know – at the moment Barca and Chelsea may look a step ahead of us, but it will depend a lot how mr. Ronaldinho will show himself when the knockout stages come. For now MILAN plays basically without him – even last night we were like 10 against 11 most of the time. But it’s long way to go. Nobody believed we can do it in 2007, yet with the „help” of Bayern, Man. Utd. And Liverpool (which were all better teams at the time compared with today imo) we proved otherwise.
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Those brilliantly struck goals by experienced Pirlo and young Alex Pato will be cherished and remembered for long by lovers of Jogo Bonito. Pato is indeed a huge talent. Good and exciting contest between Real and AC.
Dr. Cajetan Coelho
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I wonder what Pellegrini was thinking when he saw Klaas Jan Huntelaar on the Milan bench last night?
__________
Firstly, congratulations to Milan for a deserved victory.
As for Huntelaar, all I can say is "What a relief!"
Being short of firepower was merely circumstancial, and anyone who considers that strikers also have an important role to play in the defensive phases of the game when you aren't in possession would agree that Huntelaar was woeful for Madrid.
After the money Milan spent, can it be merely a coincidence that he can't get a start in the team, or even a sub appearance?
As for Madrid, I stand by what I thought before the game:
Rome wasn't built in a day.
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