Real deals put La Roja in the shade
You might have thought that with Spain poised to book their ticket to South Africa on Wednesday - if they win against Estonia at home and Bosnia fail to beat Turkey - that the excitement would be reaching fever pitch.
After all, Spain is not a country usually noted for its stoic sensibilities where such matters as qualifying for the World Cup are concerned.
However, you would be wrong. Completely wrong.
Typical of the lack of interest in the game is that the Spanish Football Federation have shuffled it off to be played in provincial Merida.
Where? If you are looking at a map of the Iberian peninsula, start by looking close to the Portuguese border parallel to Lisbon.
The federation proudly told the world on Monday that the game was finally a sell-out. Well, as Merida's tiny Romano stadium only holds 15,000, usually playing host to the equivalent of Spanish fourth division games, it would have been a huge embarrassment if it wasn't.
The main point of interest has been speculation on how many goals David Villa may be able to get against the minnows from the Baltic, who currently lie 112 notches below second-placed Spain in the current Fifa rankings.
David Villa's strike rate for Spain has been impressive
The Valencia striker has found the net while in the jersey of La Roja - The Red, as the Spanish team are widely known - a phenomenal 33 times in 51 outings and he is inexorably closing in on the record of 44 goals held by Real Madrid's Raul.
Rather than rallying to the national cause though, the big issue among Spain's chattering classes remains Raul and his newly acquired chums, that €253m (£222m) experiment in conspicuous consumption embarked upon by the Real club president Florentino Perez.
The summer arrival of Cristiano Ronaldo, Kaka, Benzema as well as bit-part players in this soap opera like the former Liverpool pair of Alvaro Arbolea and Xabi Alonso continue to dominate the agenda here.
Neither of Spain's two leading daily sports papers had anything to do with the national team as their main headlines on Monday. Instead, it was all about Real Madrid yet again, just as it has been since 20 May when the construction magnate took over at the helm of the historic club for the second occasion.
Real's first serious match of the season, a 3-2 home win in La Liga over Deportivo La Coruna just over a week ago, is still being mulled over as the media at large try to work out what it means for the rest of the season.
The truth is, obviously, that nobody can know for sure.
However, here are my thoughts, which valiantly, and possibly in vain, try to encapsulate some of the more lucid opinions.
Kaka & Benzema could be a key partnership for Real
On the positive side, Kaka and Benzama look as though they have quickly built up a good working relationship, with the Brazilian roaming down the right wing. They should be a source of plenty of goals.
Xabi Alonso also appeared to be very effective when working in tandem with the former Arsenal and Portsmouth midfielder Lass Diarra, who has become a Real fans' favourite thanks to his indefatigable work rate.
On the other side of the coin, perhaps it's best to temporarily draw a veil over Real's current defensive deficiencies but the completely new back four should be expected to improve.
More worryingly for Perez, Ronaldo's performance against Deportivo, as it had been during most of the pre-season matches, was limp.
Perez, who paid Manchester United a world-record fee of £80m, must be wondering how long it will be before Ronaldo starts to justify the massive outlay.
To a certain extent, Perez's own personal prestige - with anyone who is not a hard-core Real fan sniggering their socks off - depends on Ronaldo even more than anyone else.
The next test for Perez's second generation of 'galacticos' comes this Saturday night at Espanyol.
It will be an encounter imbued with a lot of mixed emotions.
The cash-strapped Barcelona-based club will inaugurate their new stadium, finally having a place to call their own after 12 years as tenants at the city's Olympic stadium, but there will be sombre memories that Espanyol's popular former club captain Daniel Jarque will not be there to celebrate the occasion.
Jarque, who was only 26, died of a heart attack while on a pre-season tour of Italy last month. He was a close friend of several Real players, including goalkeeper Iker Casillas with whom he played in Spain's junior teams, and more than 15,000 people paid their last respects to him in the days following his death.
Hi, I'm Phil Minshull. I've lived in Spain since 1997 and covered Spanish football since the first day I got here. My blog aims to provide some insight into what's happening in La Liga, and there is much more to it than only Real and Barcelona, as well as elsewhere around Europe.
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~03~RS~)
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Interesting ot read Phil, thanks. As someone that doesn't have Sky and so doesn't follow Spanish football (other than to look for the odd result) there was plenty in there that I didn't know, including the death of Daniel Jarque.
I'd heard that Ronaldo had an indifferent debut (in Ireland) for Real but hadn't seen any further reviews - as a United fan I have mixed emotions relating to how I'd like it to go for him! Whilst I don't your blog to become The Ronaldo News he is, undoubtedly, the biggest story over there right now (how does Kaka feel about that?!) and it'll be handy to get an ex-pat's view on how it's going.
(My mixed emotions seem to favour him getting brought down a peg or two....given that United set themselves up around him and the team did the majority of his work, something he signally failed to recognise in the double dealing departure. Still, I'm not bitter....)
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Phil,
With the Spanish team currently European Champions, and their best chance of World Cup glory coming up, can you explain the apathy towards the national team from the press?
You would think that the matches should be all sold out at much bigger venues in this time of their 'golden age'.
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I hadn't heard about Daniel Jarque. That's incredibly sad; I thought things like that weren't meant to be able to happen any more in professional football with all the medical scans and the preparation that players go through.
I doubt Real will set the world on fire this season; they need longer to set up some good defensive partnerships. The very top teams can't leak goals like Real inevitably will... Have to wait and see!
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Hi Phil, interesting blog but I think you've been a bit misleading. Like you, i've lived in Spain for a while and follow the football scene (but obviously not quite like you do) and I have grown accustomed to the way the Spainsh follow thier football almost like a religion.
Firstly, Real Madrid and Barcelona are far more important to your average josé (Alright, not the best pun) than the national team. The mutual dislike is certainly palpable in every bar you attend, and the Spanish love nothing more than to vent their mutual dislike. I attended a bar the other day where a Barcelona fan came to watch a Real Madrid match just to hurl abuse at the Real fans! Thankfully, the people in the bar did their best to ignore him until he left.
Next, a 5-0 drubbing is nowhere near as interesting as a super rich Real team stuttering to a 3-2 win. Combine that with the fact that the two papers you mention wil be pro or anti Real Madrid (i'm guessing you're on about the Marca and AS here) who regularly fill the first dozen pages with drivel about the club including the likes of full page interviews with reseve team players, then what you've written is a bit misleading.
Next, the Spanish Football federation regularly farms their international matches out to provicial grounds. It's their way of bringing the football to the masses, and it works. Also, you have to explain clearly to the people reading your column that the Spainsh public do NOT like travelling to watch a football match live, at least not like they British do. I've sat in a stadium watching Sporting Gijon play Numancia in the Segunda B, (Nationwide Championship equivalent) and was amazed to see 15000 supporters in the Gijon stands and only 20 in the Numancia stand. Their philosophy is, why travel all that way to watch a match when you can sit in a bar and watch it, or even in the comfort of my your own home. Only Real Madrid and Barcelona get any real kind of away support.
So come on Phil, what would you rather talk about with a mate in a bar among the chattering classes, a fairly straight forward demolition of a Belgium team which has already added to your run of 6 straight wins in qualifying, or the fact that the biggest spenders in world football this summer have had a really nervy start which has gone some way to destroy the myth that Florentino Perez has created a team that can match the supposed invincibility of the mighty Barcelona? I know what i'd talk about.
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Phil
Will Ronaldo's motivation also be affected as is quite likely if Portugal do not qualify for the World Cup? Also apart from when he was young he has always been the star attraction, yet now he is playing amongst his equals. Can his ego handle that?
You note crrectly that Perez will be concerned that Ronaldo is not performing - did the coach have any say about buying both Kaka and Ronaldo? They are after all both attacking midfielders.
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I think the "Galatico Mark II" has a very strong scent of the first one. The three biggest recruits this year - Ronaldo, Kaka and Benzema - will be used in the same way as the three biggest recruits last time out - Figo, Zidane and Ronaldo.
That say, I can see Kaka as the player with the most influence and play making, just like Zidane. And Benzema will flourish like his idol, the Brazilian Ronaldo. For the Portuguese Ronaldo, though he is the best player in the world, will be used like Figo. That doesn't mean Figo wasn't successful or bad, but more like it was Zidane who was the one who dictate the game, and Figo would have his chance to work his magic and change the game on his own. Both were legends at Real, but I would say Zidane probably was the more influential one, and I can see this time round, Kaka will also be the more influential one.
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I experienced Spanish (or Catalan) fans indefference at first hand. Celtic drew Barcelona a few years back in the Uefa cup and although it was a big draw for Celtic the Barca fans couldn't care less. Thousands of Celtic fans were buying tickets off the Barca fans outside who had only turned up to sell theirs..
They didn't deem that a game worthy of attending.. turns out Celtic ended up knocking them out that night too... and they weren't too bothered about that either!!
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I came on here because I thought I was reading a Phil McNulty blog. Lol. Good read nonetheless. Isn't Spain more commonly known as La Furia Roja - The Red Fury?
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Well, their massive outlay has bought them one thing - second place in the Champions League betting order. I certainly won't be placing my money on them though - the same method hasn't worked as yet for Chelsea. I for one would like to see the massive experiment fail, as it will only serve to encourage the modern approach of buying a team, rather than nuturing one from the academy upwards.
http://sportales.com/soccer/ucl-uefa-champions-league-200910-draw-preview-and-odds-groups-a-c/
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I agree with you LegendNo10. I think the most influential would be Kaka. I've always had my doubts about Ronaldo however i think there are alot of people out there right now that would love Ronaldo to fail at Real or better yet hope that he dos not feel motivated enough to play for Real which would affect his general contribution to the team.
I think Ronaldo is under a lot of pressure though and he would need some time to settle and motivate himself to perform. He has the skill but as to whether he has enough confidence to make use of this skill at Real like the legends Zidane or Figo we will all have to wait and see.
Whatever hanppens it is still long live the great Real Madrid. Forward ever.
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real madrid will not fufill all of their expectations and messi will take la liga by storm again. the two worst signings were ronaldo and ibrahimovich. they are both lazy, but at least ronaldo has done it on the big stage. ibramovich hasnt he was a waste of money.
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Phil, do you think that Ronaldo's downfall has started?
In my opinion he will find it much harder to impose his dominance at Real than it was at ManU. There everything was perfect for him, manager, fans, colleagues, he was free to deploy his rich talent, worked hard and became #1. But now at Real things are different there's a host of important new players that are very keen to make their mark in the most emphatic way so things are getting harder for Cristiano.
Let's wait and see...
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A good article Phil.. David Villa is a brilliant striker who needs very few chances to score his goals. The only comments I take issue with are those about Ronaldo. I don't particularly like or dislike Ronaldo, I think the Premier League is a less interestig place without him, but to suggest his form is "worrying" or to insinuate that Perez will be worried at the lack of return for his outlay so far is a little ridiculous - he's played ONE competitive game, and he scored in it (OK - it was a penalty). However, to raise the issue of his form after a game (and a few pre season games) is ridiculous. I'm sure even the staunchest of Man Utd fans would admit that they are weaker and Madrid are stronger after the deal. The money is crazy money but if Lescott is worth £24m then Ronaldo is probably worth £1bn so they got a bargain!!!
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fivegoldstars - a massive outlay may not guarantee success, but surely you can't say it didn't work for Chelsea, they won the Premier League two seasons in a row! It didn't do Blackburn any harm a decade before, either.
I think Ronaldo may need to 'buckle down' a bit now, he's no longer the big fish in a small(er) pond, but a big fish in a pond full of big fish! I think he will come good, and if not we'll always have him back.
Regarding the tragic death of Daniel Jarque - Cesc Fabregas paraded a shirt after scoring against Everton the other week, was this in tribute to Daniel? I seem to remember it was.
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Redraaj! Have you ever watched Italian football? I'm guessing not! Making such a blind comment on Ibrahimovich, one of the worlds best strikers, after one game of the season is completely stupid!
It's the same case with Ronaldo, you cannot judge until they have had time to settle! People take a while to settle in England, why are they not given a chance to in Spain?
Ibrahimovich may seem lazy at times but to be honest, he is a rich mans Berbatov! If Utd could afford him they would have signed him! Imagine how good Berbatov was for Spurs, then times that by ten and you have Ibrahimovich's time at both Inter and Juve! Have you played for Inter and Juve, and finished top scorer for both, and commanded over £50m worth of transfer fees in your career? No???
Ibrahimovich and Ronaldo aren't used to playing the Spanish style, you cannot say they are the worst signings after 1 league fixture! It's absolutely laughable!
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Intersting stuff. I have lived and worked in the Valencia region of Spain on and off for four years and I have my own theory as to why there is widespread apathy amongst Spaniards when La Seleccion is the topic of discussion. Spain is essentially a group of autonomous states unified under the flag of "Spain". Just like the Scots the Valencian people identify more with their own flag and culture. The Valencians also have their own widely spoken language- which is vastly different to the Castillian lingua franca. The same can certainly be said of all the other "communities" throughout Spain- the most obvious being Catalunya; and this phenomenom largely explains the fierce rivalry between catalan Barca and Spanish "Royal" Madrid. In short, the national team is seen as representing the capital city and the central provinces that surround it. You could equate this sentiment to that of the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish who object to a team GB football team representing them at the London Olympics- they simply dont't feel it would represent their nation.
Hence the lack of interest. During the last European Championships I didn't notice any enthusiasm for La Seleccion until the semi-final round- most galling for a proud Englishman who would dearly love to see his team win a major trophy in his lifetime.
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after one competitive game, all you guys are ramblinb on saying ronaldo is playing poorly and not performing, and how the real madrid project is not going to work, they wont win zilch.....
how the hell can you interprete this after one COMPETITIVE game
in that thinking liverpool will get relegated this season if this is the yardstick for measuring how well a team will do
doesnt make sense to discuss how well a team will do over a season after one game
its a non starter. not worth discussing until after 5 or 6 games in
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Now that Ronaldo doesn't have an entire team of brilliant players having their own talent reigned in to focus entirely on him, I believe we will see definitive proof that he isn't the best player in the world. I think Kaka will overshadow him at Real, Messi and Iniesta will completely outshine him as well. I personally believe, marking the truly legendary players from the great ones is an ability to improve any team they are in without having to sacrifice anything, on a club level anyway as some of the greatest players ever havent quite done it at international level for a myriad of reasons.
Personally I would rather have Messi, Iniesta, Kaka, Ferdinand, Gerrard, Lampard, Essien or several others before Ronaldo as they would add something new without taking anything away. He is a brilliant player that isn't in doubt but I don't think it is worth what you have to give to get the best out of him.
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When I have watched Ronaldo in pre -season he seemed to be trying too hard to get on the ball and often tried to beat to many players. The price tag seems to be weighing him down for the moment. He should settle though. For all the players they bought, the worst piece of business from Madrid was the the selling of Robben who was on fire in pre-season.
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I don’t think the apathy towards the national team is solely a Spanish thing – this lack of interest in the national team is common in France and Italy too. Despite the Press loving to write how passionate the Spanish and Italians are for their national teams, it is the northern Europeans (mainly England, and other British Isles nations, Netherlands and Germany) that are the most passionate for their national teams. I think sometimes the Press confuse colour and emotion for passion, whereas the real passion will be shown in South Africa next year with 50,000 England fans travelling, similar numbers of Germans and Dutch travelling, whereas the Spanish, French and Italian support will probably amount to a couple of thousand.
I’m not sure why there is such apathy in Spain and these other countries to their national team – is it the huge interest for club football or linked to politics/history? The answer to that could be another blog!
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Ronaldo, love him or loathe him, has come a very long way in a comparatively short time and perhaps is not as well equipped to manage the RM spotlight as are his peers, most of whom regularly fronted for their clubs before the media. (The Rossoneri, like Liverpool, groom key players in PR techniques.)
Alex Ferguson's professionalism in placing himself between his players and the press nowadays passes unnoticed, as he has been doing it, tongue-firmly-in-cheek, for decades.
How many MU players regularly speak to TV reporters ? His captains, Roy Keane,Rio and Gary Neville - and that's about it, unless you count Wayne's ersatz freakouts on Special One TV.
United are a bigger club than Real Madrid, not least because they have spent a century competing for the league title with Arsenal, Aston Villa, Everton, Liverpool and Sunderland - rather than playing after-you in an Iberian version of the SPL.
Cut adrift from the quiet paternalism of United, Cristiano is faced with the uncomfortable reality that his is just one more name on a chalkboard that is wiped clean with irrational and appalling monotony.
The hard fact is - at a Real Madrid which sacks managers who win la Liga - players are passing fads and their time may be up simply because the club presidency has changed hands in a show of tragi-comic theatrics.
It is no place for an apprentice drama queen and should the present Principal Boy at Real place a comforting arm about Ronaldo's shoulder, he would do well to look at what is in the other hand. Cristiano may just have realised that he has traded long-term stability and relative anonymity for the most abnormal goldfish bowl in european soccer.
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Phil, while I realise, your probably obliged on this site to pad the egos of the millions of United fans, who make up your core readership, I’d still prefer to read a more accurate appraisal.
Living in Spain, I’ve watched most of Madrid’s pre season games, and of course, the first game of the season against Deportivo.
Ronaldo has been far from “limp” as you put it, in my mind. He’s had a good a start to his Madrid career as Benezma and Kaka. He played very well against Deportivo.
Seriously. Basing some bold statement, on 40 minutes he played against Shamrock Rovers, a month a go is poor.
I know United fans want to read that he is struggling, but from what I’ve seen, he’s fitted pretty seamleslly into Spanish football
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"Phil, do you think that Ronaldo's downfall has started?
In my opinion he will find it much harder to impose his dominance at Real than it was at ManU. There everything was perfect for him, manager, fans, colleagues, he was free to deploy his rich talent, worked hard and became #1."
No, it's more the fact that Spanish football is much deeper. There are no whipping boys, and they all know how to play.
Ronaldo got an easy ride against a lot of teams in England. There are no such games in Spain
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Ronaldo will not fit in at Real even though he is arguably the best player in the world . At United, his team mates worked their socks off for him and he shone, it wont happen at Real.He repaid his team at OT with brilliance , goals and silverware , but if the fans get on his back at RM , he will go into a sulk and I reckon be gone in 2010 ( probably back to Manchester ?)
I also believe he has a monkey on his back , that's the likely failure of Portugal to qualify for the World Cup finals.
How intriguing is the possibility that the two best midfield / attacking players around Messi and Ronaldo will be missing from the South African history making Finals come next June !?
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Something that doesn't seem to have been mentioned is the role that Pellegrini will play this season. He was not the first choice of Perez as coach and it remains to be seen how he will cope with the egos and hissy fits of some of the star players. It would be interesting to see how many people think that he'll still be the Madrid coach at the end of the season - I think he'll have gone by then, probably as a result of a player like Ronaldo complaining to Perez and sulking. In this Madrid, many players are bigger than the coach.
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There are no surprises here at all.
The Spanish will always be first and formemost a nation of club (and regional) supporters, not national ones.
The nation expects it's team to qualify without any real problems so has almost no interet in that phase of any tournament, only once the finals come along (and the domestic sason is over) do they come out to support in numbers.
After all why should anyone be interested in going to see Spain thrash Estonia, when even if they lose they would still probably qualify. Instead tehy can sit in a bar in town and watch it over a beer with their mates just like most of us do.
Perhaps if England had been more reliable qualifiers we would see the same pattern emerge with them.
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1: Ronaldo has played as well as Kaka in most of the games thus far. Probably better in fact. Very misleading. I know fans want to read Ronaldo is struggling, but he isn't. Sure, he hasn't scored a hattrick yet, but as starts go, he's been pretty good. He's played 1 competitive game, scored 1 goal, and had a pretty good debut. All this talk of "no motivation". I can only think that it's based on people not watching Real MAdrid game, and just basing opinion on the coverage of the partisan British press.
2: Spanish fans love the national team as much as anyone. The fact that Madrid and Barca fans maybe put club ahead of country, is no different to 50% of Premier League fans.
(poor) England games generally sell out (well get 70k) because the FA give 20% of the tickets to corperate sponsors, 20% of the kids to school kids, 20% of the tickets at discount. When you count the number of real live fans, it maybe amounts to 30k.
Spanish football has none of the corperate crowds, or school kids making up 30% of the crowd. It's all core, fanatic support.
I'm sure they could get crowds of 50'000 for games like this, if the FA used such initiatives.
England's big crowds do not represent bigger support. Just the FA pretty desperate not to have a half full new national stadium. Anyone remember the 90s before they brought in all of these "school kids get in half price, here have 20 thousand corporate tickets". Anyone not old enough to remember - England played in half empty grounds as well.
3: Ibrahimovic scored 50 league goals in about 72 league games for Inter, in the most defensive league in the world. He was outscoring a prime Ronaldo/Shevchenko in that league.
He destroyed United in the second leg last season. What did he hit the woodwork 3 times?
He's brilliant target man and goalscorer, and will score lots of goals in Spain. He'd score even more in England.
People expect the big guy to do back heels, beat 3 men, score and overhead kick - he's one of the best players in the world right?
He's a big lump of a target man. At what he does (holding the ball up and scoring goals) no one else in the world comes close at the minute
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I'm the opposite to Phil; a Spaniard that lives in England.
I can help you understanding some of the things you all have metioned here. Firstly, La Roja es a new nickname. Former infamous coach Luis Aragones gave the team this name following the Brazil Verdeamarela (green-yellow) or France Le Bleus. La Furia Roja is the old nickname, from the 1920s or thereabouts. It was given to a far less technical team that the on we enjoy these days!
Club football has something more spicey than national side football. When Spain beat Belgium 5-0 you go back to work and have little to talk. "We were brilliant, what a goal that was". "Yes, we were... Di you watch Big Brother?". Opposed to that, you can have a friendly chat with a rival supporter "You were lucky; your keper shopuld ave been sent off but theref didn't ive the penalty". "What are you talking about? It was a dive, he hardly touched him". And so on. Some of my best friends are Barcelona supportes and I am a Real Madrid fan.
Also, these work chats are better on defeat. You have a manager, a player, a ref or a cheating rival to rant against. After a victory as resounding as last weekend's, there does not seem so muh to talk about.
The nwspapers know this. They also know that writting about the fortunes ad misfortunes of Madrid, Barcelona, Atletico or Vlencia sell a hell lot more papers than prasing Villa, Torres and Raul and start procalimng we will win the World Cup. It would look pretentious, although some voices claim we are the clear favourites.
As for Real Madrid - Some injustices have been launched against my club. Barcelona, Liverpool, Chelsea, Man Utd, Inter, Milan, Bayern and whoever you want have always spent loads of money. At times, the youth system produce a Casillas, a Xavi, a Terry, a Gerrard or a Giggs and for a few years the spending decreases. Now there is a trend of opinion that say Real Madrid should not win the Champions League because they are trying to buy the title. But I insit, every big club have been to the market when needed. To me Barcelona start in pole position (they have fantastic players and an assembled team) but the Real Madrid signing have been good for Spanish football in general as they made the World talk about Spain again, and somehow that would bring attention to Villarreal, Sevilla, Atletico, Valencia anthe lot.
We should have a great season.
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No 26 “...only once the finals come along (and the domestic sason is over) do they come out to support in numbers.”
And...
No 27 “Spanish football has none of the corperate crowds, or school kids making up 30% of the crowd. It's all core, fanatic support.
I'm sure they could get crowds of 50'000 for games like this, if the FA used such initiatives.”
I’ll be expecting to see Spain take 50,000 to the World Cup in South Africa next year like England and Germany rather than the 2-3000 they usually take to such tournaments!
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If you want to get coal from the mine, you have to use pit ponies. Thoroughbreds alone cannot manage it - somebody should tell Perez because he clearly hasn't got the message and the mine hasn't been producing for some time.
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Regarding the press being more enthusiastic about Real and Barce than Spain, isn't that true at times of the English press? There may be focus at present due to internationals, but the press will still provide the majority of print dedicated to Chelsea's transfer ban, Manchester United (and now City) and their poaching accusation and Eduardo's dive (even now still being talked about). Football club fans still follow "their" own club more than the national side until the actual finals. Even then, a vast number will "support Brazil, Portugal" or other as a second team.
Regarding Ronaldo's performances. I'm not too surprised. I am a United fan and season ticket holder, so have seen him blossom into a world beater, but United's work ethic assists Ronaldo. Real will expect more from Ronaldo than Manchester United as Real already have players who "jog" through games. So, Ronaldo back in a Man United shirt by 2013...
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To number 29 - Steve
Spain has sold out the Bernabeu and the Nou Camp (this even in the olympics) fo friendlies or official games when the rival was good enough to do so.
Spanish supportes do not travl that muchfor several reasons. One has always been a lack of financial resources, which combined with the lack of success and the traditional off-work periods of July/August rather than mid-June when tournaments happen make it easy to understand. Als hink Spanish people did no study languages broadly till a few years back, while you find English is spoken every tournament
Now th financial situation in Spain is similar to the neighbouring European states and that the national side has found a style we like (one of the reasons we didn't support Spain was the team didn't use the flair style of Madrid and Barcelona) there was far more than 2,00o or 3,000 supporting in Austria. I do not forsee 50,000 of us in South Africa,though.
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I saw the Deportivo match and while things did not click with Ronaldo it certainly wasn't for the want of trying - its just that he is trying to find his place in team. Kaka looked pretty effective and he worked well with Raul. I don't think Benzema was that effective at all to be honest and Ronaldo had a better match than him. Ironically the best player on the pitch was Diarra who kept the midfield ticking and worked pretty well with Alonso. It is early days for Real and I'm sure they will find a way of using Ronaldo effectively but I don't think Benzema, Raul, Ronaldo and Kaka will work together as a unit as they seem to get in each other's way in the build up.
One thing I am sure of though is that Ronaldo will work hard to make it work - he was exceptionally motivated at United, something that is often overlooked. He's not a player that will track back with great enthusiasm but he is always the first to burst forward looking for a goal. But for me, to make it work he needs to build a rapport with Kaka who is key to his success.
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Give Ronanldo a chance...he hasn't been at Real 5 minutes. And 1 league match. You know what a fickle mistress football is. He'll go a few games, score the odd goal, be written off as a big money failure, score a hat trick the next week, including a stunning trademark freekick, and every newspaper, journalist, TV pundit, et al, will be gushing over with lavish praise and outlandish claims. Seen it before, heard it before, got the T-shirt in the wash...
I'll just lie back in the cosy feeling of being a Spurs fan. Like an extra 5 minutes of a morning snuggled up in a duvet. You know it can't last, but it's a wonderful feeling while it does. lol
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32 - Diego. I'll be interested to see how many Spaniards travel to SA, and hope quite a few do, as me and my mates are travelling with Iberia to Johannesburg via a change in Madrid next June (it was the cheapest flights we could get), so we're hoping that there'll be plenty of Spaniards on the second leg! We have 8 random match tickets and are hoping that one of them is for England, which is should be as we have tickets for all top seeds - that should mean we get to see Spain too!
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I agree that zlatan is very good, but saying that no other target man comes close is a bit silly really isnt it, theres a certain Didier who might have something to say about it, also a lanky bosnian named Edin is starting to stake a claim...
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To be honest as someone who follows Spanish football and watches all live games in the UK, i cant believe some of the opinions on here. So far Ronaldo hasnt produces his top form but he hasnt exactly been poor. Yet Kaka has been praised and so far has been average at best.
Mike Naylor at comment 27 has called everything perfectly in my opinion.
The Spanish league is getting stronger and if Atletico and Valencia can strengthen a little further then i believe the top 4 in Spain and England will be similar in squad strength and depth. Looking further, Sevilla & Villareal arent much of Spurs, Everton and Villa.
Cmon the Lightning
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"there are no whipping boys in spain" "he will have a harder time"
Personally i think some pretty boy from portugal would have found it harder going to places like stoke and sunderland than to Xerez, Gijon and Malaga.
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26. hackerjack wrote:
Perhaps if England had been more reliable qualifiers we would see the same pattern emerge with them.
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And yet England have qualified for exactly the same amount of World Cup Finals, is this a case of your perception being clouded in some way, or are you alluding to something else I wonder?
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Whoever mentioned the price tag getting Ronaldo down... This is a guy who probably has more confidence in himself than any other person on the planet.. listen to his interviews and see if he thinks he wasn't worth 80mil... I think not..
There is also suggestions about him going in sulks and possibly questioning himself being at Madrid... watch him celebrate scoring his penalty on his competitive debut and that will make your mind up for you.
Anyone who thinks that Kaka, Ronaldo, Benzema and Raul will not gel and win things.... emmm lets wait and see eh.
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Good blog, well done for highlighting the tragic death of Espanyol captain Dani Jarque. Barcelona's other team were slowly emerging from the giant shadow cast by the incredible success of their city rivals under Pep Guardiola with a strong run at the end of last season, and just days after celebrating the inauguration of their new stadium with a 3-0 friendly win over Liverpool, the tragic death of Jarque ruined everything. Real Madrid's visit this weekend is the first competitive match since, so it will be an emotional night.
In a terrible twist of fate, Espanyol were the first team to visit Sevilla after the death of Antonio Puerta in 2007, and symbolically, Jarque, the captain, laid flowers in the spot Puerta collapsed. In light of the tragic death of two young players, and the mysterious condition that has indefinitely sidelined Real Madrid's Ruben de la Red, do you think Spanish football has a problem? Why is it becoming worrying common that mysterious health problems are causing the deaths of ultra fit sportsmen in their prime? Conversely, these events coincide with the most successful Spanish team ever.
Regarding the Spanish national team, the decision to play in Merida in slightly baffling, but one must consider the deep devisions in Spanish society and the independence movements of the various regions such as the Basque country or Catalunya. 'Sharing' la Roja around may be a may of defusing this situation, and also of allowing seperate Spanish regions to celebrate with the European Champions. The Spanish team is incredibly strong right now. They beat a fairly strong Belgian side (including Felliani and Vermaelen) 5-0, missing a penalty, and their Cesc Fabregas, despite injuries to Iniesta and Senna, wasn't in the starting line-up. For all Fernando Torres' talent, Villa is very much the main striker for Spain.
As for Ronaldo, I buy the Marca (the main Real Madrid newspaper) most days, and the general feeling is that sometimes the 'galaticos' take time to settle in. Zidane took a while to produce any kind of form, yet was perhaps the most successful 'galatico' in recent years with his memorable goal in the 2002 Champions League final. The press don't seem overly worried from what I've been reading. I would also argue that Florentino Pere'z reputation depends more on whether Real can wrestle the league title and/or the Champions League from arch rivals Barcelona, than the form of Ronaldo. Obviously one would think Ronaldo needs to hit top form for this to happen, however Perez's whole operation more about re-establishing Madrid as Spain's most successful club, and if this includes the winner of FIFA World Player of the Year, then great, but that is more the cherry on top than the dessert itself.
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Ronaldo isn't a robot.It takes time to adjust to a new team.He is the best player on the planet and will soon be proving it again.I just wish he was still at United.
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well, well, well.... isn't Mike Naylor just the oracle of football.... not
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ControlledMagic - Well put! I think that ronaldo doesn't realise he wasn't a one man show, united based their team around him. However, i don't think madrid will do that because they have brought in so many world class players they will have to try and work with each other and not base their football around one player.
I honestly think ronaldo will struggle this season and he won't enjoy madrid as much as he thought he would. I wouldn't rule out a move back to old trafford within the next few years.
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Good blog, Phil
You've certainly provoked some debate!
As an erstwhile expat and regular visitor to Spain, I take a lot of interest in La Liga and the national team.
Whilst the Real/Barca debate will run & run, I think it will come down to whether or not Real can tighten up their defence. The midfield axis of Diarra & Xavi Alonso is as goos as it gets but the back four looks very shaky, as it has for a number of years since Hierro was in his prime.
By contrast, Barca have a more solid feel and Pique is developing into a top class centre back under the watchful eye of SuperMop, Sr Puyol.
My biggest concern for La Liga is the diminishing depth of any challenge to the big two.
Villareal have lost Pellegrino, Valencia are teetering on the financial brink and Sevilla are in re-build phase.
It would be great to be proved wrong - and for Athleti to have another good season - but I fear that we are looking at a two horse race...and I am willing to bet that the Catalan thoroughbred will win by several lengths.
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"United are a bigger club than Real Madrid, not least because they have spent a century competing for the league title with Arsenal, Aston Villa, Everton, Liverpool and Sunderland - rather than playing after-you in an Iberian version of the SPL"
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roflmao!! The EPL cheerleaders are back in force again I see!!
Mate, take a lok at the history of both leagues. You quickly fine bar 2 golden era's in its history (mid 50s - 60s and 1992 - now) manu werent slogging out for many titles mate, and in fact,in most of the premier league years won the league at a canter. You also seem to forget when it comes to history, Real inspire possbly more than any other side (and I hate them) youngsters to play the game. Players like puskas, di stefano, gento and zidane stand head and shoulders over anything manu have ever had and won more into the bargain, whilst bar the odd year of success in 30, the likes of villa and everton havent threatened to win a title for a ling long time
Will be interesting to see how the premier league competes thsi year in europe. barce are miles ahead, real have spent a bomb and the grand old lady is back and italian football in general seems t be liftinf itself out an almost decade long slumber. Shall be interesting to see indeed
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Its been alluded to already that the concept of Spain under one flag is a misconception. Galicia, Basque Country, Catalunya, and the Valencia region all have there own languages (and dialects within), a fierce sense of national and cultural idendity, education sytems and parliaments. I don't know about Valencia, but the other three regions above have there own 'national' football teams which although not FIFA-affiliated, attract are more loyal home support than the Spanish national team.
Also Andalucia, which has Castillian Spanish as its first language,is very culturally distinct from central Spain, deriving from its African-Islamic history.
In the autonomous regions its not uncommon to hear 'Madrid' used as short-hand for the rest of Spain. For many, partcularly those who lived through the Franco era, 'Madrid' represents the 'other' or even,still the 'enemy'. Many consider the likes of Xavi and Puyol as traitors because they play for Spain.
While there was some celebrating in the streets of barcelona when Spain won Euro 2008, it was a fraction of the public response which followed the relatively minor achievement of Barcelona's victory in last-season's Copa del Rey
In my experience, the younger generation in the autonomies predominantly see themselves as having 'dual-nationality', in the way many Scottish people are happy to consider themselves as equally Scottish and British. They are happier to consider a united Spain, on the sporting field at least.
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I don not know what planet Willaimshankly is on but to claim that United is a bigger club that Real? Come on are you dreaming? Look we know that a lot on Man U fans would like the whole world to believe that Ronaldo would fail at Madrid, may be may be not. But please guys leave with it, the guy left Man U end of story not amount of pull him down will change that. He is with Madrid now so deal with it.
Please leave Ronaldo alone and focus on your club and the people you have playing for you now. Ronaldo left and we all know why he left because he made hos reasons clear to everyone. If you do not like it, well tough.
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In England if someone shows greater loyalty to their club over the national team, all hell breaks loose! God forbid if one of the tabloids got hold of any names; it would be the leading headline their pathetic, illogical and irrelevant front pages. One should be free to show loyalty to whatever team they choose, local, national or even none in particular. Real and Barca are more widely supported than the national team-that's just how it is. The reason is perhaps because both Real and Barca have more colurful and successful memories than the Spanish national team.
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No doubt,a thought provoking write-up!every interested football followers having been following the emerging trend at real madrid,it will be a collosal waste of money if they do not win anything this year.really,the pressure is on them,the candidates for champions league trophy are man u,inter,barcelona,chelsea and real.so,they have uphill task winning!what of la-liga,barca are not going to lie down and be rolled over,they{real}have lot to do.for me,barca is still the favourite to win!so,real and especially,ronaldo shoud wake-up from his slumber and start scoring now,so that they dont do catch up later in the season!
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Zizoucaricoles makes a valid point, there are regional and political divisions within Spain which make it unthinkable for many to support the Spanish national side.
The actual debate currently being discussed is whether the new Galacticos can equal the previous galacticos, not too tall an order.
However the presidency of Perez will be judged on whether this Madrid can better the Barcelona treble last season, unthinkable.
Pellegrini the current manager will almost certainly not last beyond Christmas, and if results are not forthcoming rapidly, the superstars will be benched for the return of the old guard of Guti and Raul with Higuain to save the club from embarrasment.
Real madrid can never be below second place for more than a few matches without there being drastic changes, it is the club which sacked both manager and captain at the party celebrating the league and european double.
If this crop of galacticos were given the time to gel it would be very impressive, however recent history strongly suggests they must hit the ground running or face the wrath of Florentino Pérez.
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So many points here, where to start?
Firstly, Phil – great blog, which offers real insight to a fascinating league. I look forward to reading more from you this season.
I knew David Villa had a reputation as a clinical finisher but 33 goals in 51 games is outstanding.
I used to live in Spain and agree with other posters who commented that Spain is a collection of disparate autonomous communities who cannot all relate to the national team. For example, Catalans see FC Barcelona as representing Catalunya and therefore follow the club above la Seleccion.
Mike Naylor: England games in the 90’s played to half empty stadiums because Graham Taylor was manager and we were rubbish. Carlton Palmer, Geoff Thomas, Andy Sinton, the list of mediocrity is endless. Fortunately Terry Venables came along and transformed our style of play in time for the glorious (though ultimately heart-breaking) Euro 96 and the FA has been riding this wave of popularity ever since.
WilliamShankly: I disagree with pretty much every sentence you have written… not worth commenting on really.
All the people commenting on Ronaldo’s failure after one game really don’t know what they are talking about. He may turn out to have an unsuccessful spell at Real Madrid but way too early to say. The talk about him being a big fish in a small pond at Man U… what? Yes Madrid is a bit bigger than Man U, but Man U is a huge club, Champions League finalists for the last 2 seasons, with a star studded squad of world class players. And the comments about him not being a big fish any more… he’s the most expensive player in the world! He’s a huge star in Madrid. Alonso, Kaka and Diarra will provide a wonderful platform for him to exhibit his skills (which personally I think are over-rated).
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I think this proves that Spanish soccer fans are just the same as English fans in many respects, and really fans all over the world.
I marked disinterest in the exploits of their national team, when facing weak opposition, and a clamour for information on the top teams.
Bearing in mind their are 92 professional clubs in England, what percentage of news print is dedicated to the top four teams? How does that compare to Spain?
In addition, I was not aware at all that Spain had played Belgium this weekend until I read a comment saying so, but I was drawn to check out the La Liga results, since I am interested in how Real do.
We are the same, we are each other.
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80 million - no one is worth that. And, at that price, he isn't going to play his natural game. He will want to show everyone what he can 'do.'
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Thanx for this bit of info, Phil. To tell you the truth, I'm not a fan of Spanish football or the Spanish national team. So if Spaniards care less whether their national team qualifies or not, while should I.
Regarding Ronaldo, I'm very certain that Ronaldo will always be the Ronaldo he's been. Ronaldo is not playing any differently from the way he played at Man Utd. He is not a big game player, and for me that's what makes the difference. He slopped against Barcelona in our UEFA CL semifinal clashes season before last. He slopped against Chelsea in the CL final when he missed the penalty, which should have cost us the game. I'm a Man Utd fan, but I firmly believe that those laurels that went to Ronaldo for the past two seasons should have gone to someone else.
My true heroes at Man Utd over the past three seasons have been Van Der Saar, Wesley Brown, Patrice Evra, Darren Fletcher, Ryan Giggs, Wayne Rooney, Paul Scholes and Carlos Tevez (sad that he had to leave). These gallant men did the real dirty and tough work for United. Ronaldo, in his opportunistic style, only happened to be on the right spot to do the finishing. Can he do this at Madrid. Certainly not. I do not think Real Madrd has that many selfeless or unselfish players that will make the sacrifice for him.
His absence from Man Utd is never really going to make any difference to United. Thank goodness that Sir Alex saw reason in letting him leave.
Wish him tough luck!
Tinoelm
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So Ronaldo's debut didnt set the world alive, yet he scored
Ibrahimovic's didnt either.........yet he scored! i juts dont get some poeple and the expectations they seem to have.
Of course Ronaldo isnt going to creat and score as many goals as he did at Man U he wont dominate games all season long .......you know why...
Man utd when Ronaldo was there had Carrick, Fletcher, Anderson in its midfield with Berbatov up front with Rooney
Real Madrids has Kaka in it! Diarra in it! Robben too and up front Benzema, higuain and Raul! he has better players around him and wont have the focus of the whole team based around him.
No disrespect to Man uts the history speaks for itself, Real have built a team here that will 9 times out of ten score more than it concedes they way the galacticos were originally. I rememeber countless games when Madrid looked down and out and would score 3 out of nowhere.
I just cant wait for the chanpions league...the real test is there. Hope Man u draw against Real too. would make for great viewing.
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I knew about the division in football which basically follows the division of the nation, lingusitically, culturally and in terms of outlook.
Ronaldo wont justify his transfer fee. With his salary no one could. Not even Messi or Zidane. But of course Ronaldo is there to sell copious amounts of shirts in Asia rather than actually be the leader of the team. Any decent football manager knows that is going to be Kaka.
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Like a few others who've commented before, I too live in Spain, have been over here for more than four years living and working near Madrid.
iwanlewis76 has got it spot on, at the end of the day, Spain is a more diverse nation than most realise. In turn, football opinion is divided roughly in two: Real Madrid and anti-Madridistas. The latter includes Barcelona fans, Atletico Madrid, Athletic Bilbao, etc.
Until the recent Eurocup success fans of the national team were always awaiting the obvious collapse or embarassing slip up which meant disqualification. Their apathy was nothing more than a realistic evaluation of the team's chances based on past results. Now there's a team playing nice football which is an interesting sideshow but it won't take the place of the Madrid vs Barcelona (and everyone else) battle...
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Ronaldo, Ibra, New Madrid, reinforced Barca, could someone stop this blabber already?
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Kaka will lead the team and contribute far more over 90 minutes.
But Ronaldo will get goals. Lots of goals.
He didn't play too well last season; still scored on a regular basis.
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Man Utd bigger than Real Madrid? When did that happen?
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tinoelm:So your not a fan of the Spanish national team but surely you must enjoy the way they play?If only England could play such great football.
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Ohh! What a special reading pleasure this article was!
Its bit surprising that national team is not making headlines during this international break in Spain and its Real hogging limelight after lucky win over Deportivo. That tells the difference between Spanish and British media.
I dont think there's any doubt in my mind n heart alike that David Villa is on his way to become Spain's top scorer. With 11 goals short of Raul, I would (along with Raul) be a very happy man to see the record broken with winning goal in the finals of WC 2010 in South Africa. I wish he ends up as top scorer for the tournament as well. But I still do wonder sometimes, why he did not chose to move over to Barcelona... perhaps next season.
When has C. Ronaldo played a team game?
Galactico I saw Zidane-Figo-Ronaldo played for each other.
Galactico II still seem to be unsure whom the penultimate pass has to be played to Kaka or CR9. I do not want to start off a debate who is the better player... as the season progresses it is not going to be only Kaka vs CR9.... dont forget there;s Lionel Messi playing in the same league.
Spanish Liga only getting much better, kudos to national team too :)
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benidorm1 - why should England seek to play the same way as Spain? Let's play like England rather than copying a style that is patently not suited to us, and has taken 40 years (and a naturalised Brazilian midfielder) to finally work effectively.
A few years ago everywhere part-time football fan was saying we should play like France. Basically because they were winning things then. England's best chance to win is not to copy a side, but refine their own style and build confidence in it.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
"He destroyed United in the second leg last season. What did he hit the woodwork 3 times?"
truely laughable comment, he hit the woodwork twice as I remember, and how is that a good thing? he should have scored both times!!
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Im sorry but i have to disagree with most of the people on here, figo was not a huge success, he had a good couple of years and after that he lost his pace and quality, figo was useless!
As a united fan i would like to see ronaldo fail, after seing many home games at united and seing how the crowd treated him aswell as the mangager staff and team, the team played to ronaldo consistently and he is not going to get that at real, ronaldo will soon realise that quiting united was the worst mistake of his career, e.g. van nistleroy,heinze,beckham all lost form when going to madrid!
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Comments for #4. I agree to many of the things you wrote but would like to make some remarks (As the average José, being Spanish myself). For most of us the Spanish team is far more important than Real Madrid or Barcelona. However Spain are pretty much through, therefore a game versus a second rate team - no disrespect intended here, just looking at FIFA ranks - is not that interesting. I think is great that the Spanish team plays in small cities all around Spain, as you mentioned we don't travel for games that often! Regarding the "venting our mutual dislike", you're right but you'll find that this is done 99.99% of times in a very friendly manner as it happens that we all have relatives and friends supporting our most disliked rivals. i.e I'm a big fan of Real Madrid but my own son supports Barcelona!! :S It makes everything much more fun...
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#4 iwanlewis76
Brilliant contribution, a perfect response to a bit of a mediocre blog.
As a Englishman resident in Spain and a Director of a regional football club there isn't much in the piece that enlightened me.
"Seleccion Espana" regularly play friendlies and qualifiers around the country, Seville hosted Spain-England earlier this year, it makes perfect sense for the National team, virtually assured of qualification, to play a game they are expected to win easily at a Tercera, (regional fourth division), ground. Nothwithstanding, RFEF, the Spanish FA, assume responsibility for the match in it's entirety; marketing, ticketing etc.
I have a choice of three Segunda A teams to visit and rarely, even for local derbies, do many visiting fans turn up. One city hosts two teams who share a stadium, the week before the city derby, 25000 crammed in to watch a top of the table clash featuring the more prominent side, of which no more than 100 had travelled away.
Seven days later with a decent Saturday evening kick off time barely a fifth of that number bothered to attend the two teams that share the ground, the match wasn't televised! I don't believe it to be an urban myth but my understanding is that the designated away team refused to contribute towards their rivals coffers.
Marca and AS, I assume these are those to which the blog referred, are amongst the biggest selling dailies in Spain, as iwanlewis76 pointed out
rarely do they focus on anything other than the big two of Spanish football. The exceptions being Euro 2008, Antonio Puerta and Daniel Jarque Gonzalez, players for Sevilla and Espanyol respectively, who both passed away in similar circumstances on club duties.
In general Spanish football fans are a bit of a fickle breed, even in towns and cities with La Liga or Segunda teams, massively popular penas (fan clubs) of Madrid and Barca do a roaring trade. In addition, many Cules, (Barca fans), refuse to support the national team because of long standing political animosity amongst the Catalans.
A reasonable blog but more can have been included.
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This is not even a team. Galicticostly will find out by the end of the year that the 250M spent will come back to bite them. Ronaldo on his day is superb to say the least. Yet when Real fail to gell which will happen... frustration will get the better of him and the others. Internal cat fights will errupt and they will go out to a team outside of the top tier in Europe. Find themselves fighting to solidify third in la liga. The only hope they have is winning the Spanish cup. But by then Portugal will fail to qualify for the world cup. Kaka will see Brasil barely qualify and will wonder who the ell is Benzema and why did I leave Milan.
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Post #61
According to Forbes:
The Top Ten
Manchester United
Real Madrid
Arsenal
Liverpool
Bayern Munich
AC Milan
Barcelona
Chelsea
Juventus
Schalke 04
As well; 300 millions fans are members of Man U (or 5 % of the worlds population)
While Real did buy Ronaldo, Man U have had more success, most recently; domestically and internationally.
How would you support your arguement that Real is bigger?
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Ronaldo, ‘limping’?
Well, I expect he will improve some. But some people might after all realise he is not as great as they thought him to be. I have always maintained over the years that though he is a good player he is not the best player in the world. I have always ranked him lower than Messi & Kaka. And with the spectacle this year of the match when Manchester United lost to Barcelona in the finals, I might just have got some ‘converts’ (?).
The sooner Perez realises this might be so, the better (!).
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Its a weird suggestion, the Spaniards not overly enthused by the grand success of their national team and quite immersed in the activities of their local club interests. It indicates parochial bonds are all too strong. Funny how such group loyalties tend to service schisms higher up. And this so when one can realistically expect Spain to lift the World Cup. I put them just behind Brazil in credentials presentation for the Jules Rimet.
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I am a Real Madrid fan but to say that the people only like Lass Diarra for his work rate is not correct. Lass has become a fundamental part of this team and has grown in stature and class. Some of balls he threads through to the strikers is of the highest order and he rarely looses the ball. He is likened to Makalele but he is more as he has the passing instinct of Gazza at his best.
I hope that he is getting his just rewards as for me he is one of the most important players for Real Madrid at this moment in time.
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i agree that the partnership between kaka and benzema will be key, albeit they've only played once in the league, both players showed great understanding with each other. quite surprising as it was the first game of the season, and how kaka was playing in pre-season.
http://wdkf.co.uk/
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I was actually at the game between Real and Deportivo. Kaka was all flash to little effect, Benzema looked nothing special, Ronaldo was trying too hard but did bring the house down when, with a dazzling piece of footwork (it was so fast it dazzled me, too - I was directly behind him but a long, long way above on the uppermost tier of seats), he nutmegged the Deportivo fullback. Diarra was very busy and effective.
The real star of the show was Xabi Alonso. He hardly broke into a sweat, didn't waste a ball and was all languid class. It was so easy for him, he exuded a slight air of boredom.
You can understand why all the top players want to play there - what a spectacle and atmosphere - even though many who do go there end up disillusioned. That said, this lot will slaughter most of their opponents in La Liga.
Oh, and we had a pre-match appearance from Usain Bolt, too. What a superstar he's become - astonishing for a sportsman whom most people see performing for about 1½ minutes a year.
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Firstly, many thanks to everyone who has taken the time to comment on my blog. I'm glad it's sparked some intelligent and informed discussion. After all, that's it's purpose!
Apologies as well, for taking my time joining the debate, with more than 70 entries in 24 hours, I've had quite a bit of reading to do!
It's going to be impossible to reply in depth to each point that's been made, or answer every question that's been raised, but I've picked out a few to respond to which hopefully will cover a fair amount of ground.
ControlledMagic: Since you got in first, thanks for the compliment. My blog is definitely not going to become The Ronaldo News as there's far, far more going on in Spanish and European football but as he's the world's most expensive player, he's going to feature every so often, depending on what he does or doesn't do.
O_Reilly: There isn't really a general apathy towards the Spanish team and certainly it gets full attention during the summer, as witnessed by the country going crazy last year during the European Championships. (Personally, I disagree with Leemosuk, I was thought the country was engaged with the event from the outset. Expectations were again high, but for once they were realised.) However, at the moment the national team is very much a sideshow to what is happening with Barcelona, Real Madrid... or even Atletico.
Stadam52: Personally, I don't think the Ronaldo downfall has started but life is/will be very different at Real Madrid. As various contributors have mentioned, the Manchester United team was built around him in recent seasons and that doesn't look like happening under Manuel Pellegrini. Quite the reverse, my feeling is that he's likely to be asked to accommodate other players and could find himself playing in different positions on a week-by-week basis. He'll have to show the mental maturity to cope with that.
Edgaju, MK Dons Cat, Don't Argue With Me, DavidHaskins (and others): It's fair comment by all of you to say that it's too early to tell about Ronaldo and how he will perform over the long-term at Real but my view is that much more was expected of him even at this early stage of his career in Spain, an £80 million price tag is something that you have to live up to very quickly. By contrast, carping comments that Kaka and Benzema didn't hit the ground running, literally and metaphorically, have been almost non-existent.
Mike_Naylor: “Ronaldo got an easy ride against a lot of teams in England. There are no such games in Spain.” Hmmm, I'm not so sure about that. Deportivo are solid middle-of-the-table battlers but, realistically, Ronaldo will be expected to run riot against the likes Xerez and Sporting Gijon.
Eldeano: “Something that doesn't seem to have been mentioned is the role that Pellegrini will play this season.” A good point and probably a theme that I'll return to sometime towards the end of the year. Real Madrid have a habit over the years of getting rid of coaches during the two week end-of-year break if things are not going well.
OK, that's it for now. BTW Details of all the fixtures in tonight's European qualifying games, not just the ones in Spain's group, can be found at the link below.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/fixtures/default.stm
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That Forbes list is a bit of a joke... That greatness is based on cash, is it not? Chelsea is not European great. They have a massive 0 Europen Cups and 2 Cup Winner's Cups if I recall. Nottingham Forest have a better trophy room to display, but their current status deny them a place there. Chelsea are a rich club, not great one. Pretty much like Man City.
The same for Schalke. They have minor trophies to show, yet a big support. Surely Dortmund can claim to be bigger. Even Moenchengladbach, although now are a replica of Forest.
Ajax is a true great and tey are missing. is it because the Dutch TV contractis not as nice as Sky?
There is a lack o non-European clubs as well... Boca, River, Sao Paulo?
The teams mentioned there are some of the biggest in the world. United, Real Madrid, Liverpool, Barcelona, Inter, Juventus, Milan, Ajax... Claiming that United is the greatest in the world is wrong; they aren't even the greatest in England (that is Liverpool to me) and the amount of silverware they have compared to Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, Milan or Ajax is not enough to spport that claim. Rich yes, big t-shirt seller yes, great of course. Greatest, no
Someone said the Spanish league was an Iberian version of the SPL... Given the mount of Eropean tophies (12 Eropean Cups, more than Italy and England, and several UEFA Cups and Cup Winners' Cup) held by the Spanish league, that claim also falls without much need of a challenge.
I have read some bitterness from United fans. That is fair; it is part of football and friendly rivalry. But don't go saying straight away that Ronaldo will regret the move. To start with, the culture and the style of life in Madrid is a lot closer to his own that the one he enjoyed in Manchester.
I ill also join the large list of people that think drawing conclusions on 1 league game is ridiculous. And Real Madrid did not have a lucky win against Deportivo; it was narrow. But Madrid created a lot more chances to have won the game more comfortably.
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74. At 07:23am on 09 Sep 2009, realthing wrote:
I am a Real Madrid fan but to say that the people only like Lass Diarra for his work rate is not correct. Lass has become a fundamental part of this team and has grown in stature and class. Some of balls he threads through to the strikers is of the highest order and he rarely looses the ball. He is likened to Makalele but he is more as he has the passing instinct of Gazza at his best.
I hope that he is getting his just rewards as for me he is one of the most important players for Real Madrid at this moment in time.
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I suggest you base your analysis not only on work rate or pass rate but how the player fits into the team. Suggesting that Lassana Diarra is a better player than Makalele is completely untrue. With the players in Madrid's possesion, I honeslty don't think they require Lass to be making some through passes or runs, occassionally perhaps yes. Alonso and Kaka are there to feed Benzema, Ronaldo and Raul and all they need is a player of Makelele's calibre who can sit in front of the defenders and do the sweeping. That was what Makele was good at and I don't think there is no one better than him arround in today's game, Yaya Toure or Wilson Palacios come a little bit close to that category of players. If you watch madrid's game against Deortivo, the midfielders Valeron and Guardado had too much time on the ball and no one closed Valeron down for the second goal.. that was meant to be Diarra's job as Makele did this to ultimate perfection. Makelele's contribution to the Galactico's succes was not apreciated until he left and uptill date I think his contribution has dwarf any other DM that has played for Madrid.
Even Zidane said it that without Makele they wouldn't have been able to do what they did ( Figo, Ronaldo, R. Carlos and Raul). he described selling makele and buying Beckham as selling a part of your engine and buying a gold paint to rub on an already gold plated automobile.
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Brilliant comment and info WIGWAM 02. Please if I may ask how much did it cost you to buy a ticket for the madrid deportivo match? do you have to join the madridsimmo to be able to buy tickets and lastly where did you buy it?
My Friends and I are planning to go sometime during the winter to see a madrid game.
Cheers
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Mike Taylor, your paranoia is large. "Padding the egos of United fans" by chatting about Ronaldo? What the hell are you on about? Ronaldo was a fantastic player for United for 6 years, where he just got better and better. I wish him every success in everything he does and have absolutely no doubt that, given good health, he will continue to play football from the gods.
Your point about there being no makeweights in the Spanish league? Are you having a laugh? Guess what, at least a couple of teams will get hardly any points in La Liga this coming season. I hope that doesn't come as too much of a shock to you. It will be because they are rubbish.
I'll ignore your point about the English media's temptation to portray Ronaldo as a flop, not least because there may be some truth in it. He sells papers, so if they can plaster him over their copy without hyping La Liga over the Premiership I'm sure they will. The other angle that you seem to ignore is that they will be even more keen to plaster his successes over their copy if it damns the United he's left behind by association. This doesn't fit with you gibberish about the media "padding the egos of United fans" though, so I'm not sure you are able to understand such a phenomenon.
Finally let's talk about Ibrahimovic. He's a decent player capable of flashes of brilliance. However, you went a bit further than that didn't you, even as far as to say "He destroyed United in the second leg [CL R2 2L] last season. What did he hit the woodwork 3 times?" I nearly spat my coffee out reading that! Let me help you; I was at that game, and Ibrahimovic was on the losing side, missed a virtually open net from 5yds (the time he hit the woodwork - the only time in fact), and was generally unable to steer Inter away from their fate. His link-up play was occassionally a bit better than I'd expected from what I've seen of him on the TV, but Adriano looked more threatening in a cameo as substitute than Ibrahimovic looked over the entire 90 minutes. And let's not forget, he'd already flopped in the 1st leg as well.
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Its hard to understand the mindset of some groups of people when it comes to sport.
With regards to football supporters in Spain, its widely known and understood that political/regional differences limit the country being unified in the support of the National Team.
People claim to be fiercely loyal to their region and yet large proportions support 1 of 2 teams many miles away from the region they are fiercely proud of. Strange logic indeed but its unfair to say it is a logic consigned only to Spain. As a native of the highlands of scotland it was very strange in my eyes that there were many many people who disliked the city and people of Glasgow intenseley yet were ardent supporters of Glasgow Celtic or Glasgow Rangers. If your proud of the city of your birth then why not show it by supporting the local football club. England suffers from the same strange idea where you get Londoners slating the Northern monkeys yet support Man United or coin the Scousers and unemployed Chavs that steal everything under the sun and yet support Liverpool. Sport and football in particular is fickle to say the least and attracts hypocrits and blinded loyalty beyond logical comprehension.
To maybe prove the point it would be interesting to ask the Real madrid and Manchester United fans where they were born and where they proud to be from that particular City.?
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Mohtechnix
When i went to Madrid to see Real v Olympiakos in 2007 there was plenty of tickets available both at the ticket office at the bernabeu and also from ticket sellers outside the ground. Obviously it was a Champions League game so it may depend on who Real are playing and in what competition. We got the tickets from the official office and were only 40 euros each (at the time it was 1.5 euros to the pound so was very reasonable).
However it will definately be worth going. I have been to Madrid twice and absolutely love the city. I would recommend going to the Vicente calderon for a game aswell. Fantastic stadium and atmosphere and with Atletico due to move to another part of the city in a couple of years then i would definately go before it is too late. We also went to see Rayo Valllecano in the Segunda A. Great little stadium full of passional Rayistas.
My wife and I are going to book up for May next year for the Champions League final, regardless of who gets there, as the city will be buzzing (infinitely more so if Atletico or Real make it all the way obviosuly).
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I live in Spain - have done for many years. The Spanish fans and press are not reknowned for their long-term patience. The white handkerchiefs and seats will come out soon if Ronaldo continues to underperform. So far he has been noticeable for his minimal contribution and goals. At United he fitted into their system and with the players around him. Exactly the opposite has been Berbatov. This is Ronaldo's problem at the moment - the Spanish La Liga and the players are of a very different style and he has not (yet) fitted-in; he is an individualist. Beckham was adored because he was a team player and involved evry other player around him; Ronaldo is an individualist. Time will tell. Not money.
The passing of Daniel Jarque was big news and and every paper and TV channel carried it for many days. He was extremely popular with Espanyol.
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Benzema will be superb at madrid, as will kaka i think. But Ronaldo will fade into the shadows as did Heinze, Beckham, Owen etc.
The one big thing that people seem to overlook is how United bring players on and how they fit them into the team. Madrid have just gone and bought all the players who are "world class" without even a thought as to who will fit in, who's the key role, How it is going to work!! And for this reason i hope madrid fail miserably, it's ruining football. And you can say what you like about Uniteds spending but quite frankly its just not true. United only buy players that they believe will fit in with the squad, oh and never would United fork out 200million in one summer.
This season Fergie wants to prove he doesn't need to spend large to be successful, and good god i hope he succeeds.
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Real Madrid bought Ronaldo for marketing purposes. The football unfortunately is secondry. A few years back Real Madrid could have bought Ronaldinho but opted for Beckham for financial reasons. What we see is history repeating itself. All the fans who are placing comments on this blog have been misguided and think in only football terms. The reality is the commercialisation of football the fans cant see.
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Arabset83
Many Thanks. I reckon getting tickets now will be more difficult than it was in 2007 cos at that time, Real Madrid was in decline and a champions league match with Olympiakos is not particularly gonna be a sell out will it? We will probaby just ring the club office before setting off to check availability. When I was in Uni, Ibiza and Mallorca was the part of Spain I visited but few families and friends think Madrid is a beautiful city and there is more to it than the teenage beach party and buzz festival you get in the Balearic Islands, so my fiends and I thought we kill two birds with a stone by visiting Madrid and watchinbg the galacticos II in business.
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rather than playing after-you in an Iberian version of the SPL.
It's the Portuguese league that's the Iberian version of the SPL. ;)
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Good afternoon everyone
One or two contributors have expressed interest in attending Spanish football games. I won't and probably can't post the complete URL's here but if you Google "Soccerway" or "Soccer-Spain" these are a couple of good web resources with ticketing and price details.
Most top line clubs have a window in the week before games during which match day tickets are availible for sale.
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As a united fan i would like to see ronaldo fail, after seing many home games at united and seing how the crowd treated him aswell as the mangager staff and team, the team played to ronaldo consistently and he is not going to get that at real, ronaldo will soon realise that quiting united was the worst mistake of his career, e.g. van nistleroy,heinze,beckham all lost form when going to madrid!
Van Neilstroy didn't lose any form. He was the top scorer and still one of the finest finishers. And Real still has Van and I can still see him scoring goals for real. Just wait and see
B/w Van Neilstroy can still get a place in starting line up. He's better finisher than what you have got now in your team.
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Van Neilstroy didn't lose any form. He was the top scorer and still one of the finest finishers. And Real still has Van and I can still see him scoring goals for real. Just wait and see
B/w Van Neilstroy can still get a place in starting line up. He's better finisher than what you have got now in your team.
So if he was that good why did no big clubs make a bid for him in the transfer market?
He has lost his pace, im not saying hes a bad player im just saying he has lost form, he was top scorer at united for like 4 seasons.
Personally when owen played for real he made an impression and regularly scored so i dont consider him as much of a failure as beckham
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"Only Real Madrid and Barcelona get any real kind of away support."
Actually, Sporting de Gijón get the best away support in Spain, with up to 5,000 fans travelling to some games.
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