- 14 Aug 08, 10:46 AM
Beijing
I think my wife might be a secret member of the Communist Party of China: like them, she just doesn't get why anybody would want to play a sport they'll never be any good at.
Sunday football makes about as much sense to her as Piers Morgan's career does to me and grass-roots sport does to the Chinese authorities.
It seems in this country, there's elite sport and there's getting sweaty for no sane reason - and not much in between.
Which might explain why China's population of 1.3bn will produce enough divers, gymnasts and weightlifters to win the Olympic medal table - but not enough footballers to beat Belgium, at home.
Football remains China's most popular sport in terms of media coverage and its men's national team is often described as the best-supported side in world sport.
Unlike many of the Olympic sports the hosts are currently dominating, football ain't no new thing here: the Chinese were playing a version of the game 2,500 years ago and the Chinese Football Association was formed in 1924.
The top European leagues have been fixtures on Chinese television schedules for years and the likes of Chelsea and Manchester United have made profitable pre-season tours to the Middle Kingdom.
The Chinese like, watch and talk about football. They just don't play it very much or very well.
The men's team are already out of the Olympic competition. Wednesday night saw them lose 3-0 to Brazil. That followed a 2-0 defeat by Belgium and 1-1 draw with New Zealand - hardly the stuff of sporting superpowers.
China is also already out of the 2010 World Cup, having come bottom of their Asian qualifying group (behind Australia, Qatar and Iraq).
Now before anyone castigates me for not pointing out China's famous victories against, erm, and that time they beat...nope, I can't remember, I am also well aware of the failings of Britain's national teams.
In fact, British football has more than just underachievement (although that is unfair on Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, who punch well above their weights in relation to population) in common with Chinese football.
The last global football census conducted by Fifa, known as its "Big Count", found China had 708,754 regular players and England 738,800. England's population, however, is about 26 times smaller than China's.
England, for the record, are ranked 14th by Fifa, Scotland 16th, Northern Ireland come in at 32nd and Wales are the 51st state of world football. China are 97th, wedged between Uganda and Iceland.
China's women footballers are better than their male counterparts. They're ranked 14th and have reached the quarterfinals of the Olympic tournament.
But even this is a comedown from their 1990s successes and, as women's football grows around the world, China's star appears to be waning.
So why aren't they stronger at football?
Rowan Simons, a footie-mad Londoner who has lived in Beijing for almost 20 years, thinks he knows so I went to see him.
"China just doesn't get amateur football," he said. "The authorities only care about the best kids. There's a very elite focus so the base of their pyramid is too narrow.
"Football in China will never succeed as long as the government controls it.
"And while staging the Olympics has prompted the government to make changes in a whole range of areas, nothing has changed in sport. Reforms in grass-roots sport have been held back for seven years.
"There will be no legacy in terms of participation in sport after these Games, but I think, and hope, a huge debate about grass-roots sport will start as soon as the Olympics are over."
We were talking at a football centre he runs on the eastern outskirts of the city, and whilst we chatted a mixture of Chinese and ex-pat kids were enjoying the final day of a week-long coaching scheme.
Simons, who has just written a cracking book about his efforts to bring the world's game to one fifth of the world's population, calls these sessions "play football, learn English" - the educational element helps tempt Chinese youngsters (or more precisely their parents) to get involved.
The ball drills and language skills idea is just the latest plank in his strategy to convert China to the joys of just playing football.
When he first arrived in Beijing as a language student in 1987 he was amazed to discover there was not a single football club in the country. Not only that, it was actually illegal to have a kick-about as unauthorised gatherings of more than 10 people were banned.
Simons and friends risked it anyway and persuaded locals and other foreign students to get teams together to play friendlies. His first team was called Big Nose FC, the name coming from a slang term for westerners in China.
Those early games were only qualified successes and the country's first organised amateur league - the International Friendship Football Club - didn't start until 1994. Simons was a mercurial left-winger for the Peking Strollers in that inaugural season and the IFFC continues to this day.
But Simons, by now working as a pundit on Beijing TV's broadcasts of English football, wanted more than just ex-patriot games. He wanted to get the locals involved.
And so China ClubFootball was born in 2001.
The football initiative still runs 11-a-side competitions but chose to focus on the five-a-side game. It was a smart move.
The league's website now has 60,000 registered visitors, card-carrying membership of 10,000, 2,000 kids in training and 20 full-time staff. There are also approximately 100 teams playing every week in 10 leagues, three seasons a year.
When CCF started it was 100% foreign, it is now 50% Chinese.
But Simons says all this has been done without an iota of help from China's football authorities. The CFA, in fact, does not even have an amateur section and it was easier, from a bureaucracy point of view says Simons, for him and his two partners to set the league up as a "joint venture" than a sports league.
For Simons the challenge is to persuade the decision-makers (which means the government) to embrace the amateur ethos. It will not be easy. There are more golf courses in Beijing than full-size football pitches.
Some help from outside, wouldn't go amiss. Fifa has shown little desire to prompt the CFA into action and the world's leading clubs currently only see a market for merchandise not an untapped source of talent.
"The big growth sport here now is basketball," admitted Simons. "The NBA is killing the Premier League. They've been much smarter in how you operate in China.
"But there is so much potential here and that's why I'm still optimistic. There are 160 cities in China with over one million people."
When it's put like that, everything seems possible. And that can be said for so many different aspects of Chinese life. The numbers are staggering.
But as long as China thinks there is a path to international football success that involves a higher work-rate and more foreign coaches, as opposed to more players with better skills, it will continue to underachieve in the world's favourite sport.
Hold on minute, that sounds a bit like England. Nice to know we share at least one sporting frustration.
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Comments
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Is it really hard to find 11 top players from their 1.6 billion population? I really can't understand...:-|
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Thanks for that Matt, an interesting insight into a world about which we hear so little. It will be interesting to see if the Chinese can turn things around over the next decade.
So, is there no actual top level league there? At least that means they don't have the situation we have in this country with young English players having to rely on just a few teams like Spurs, Man Utd and Villa to get a chance to shine, whilst the Arsenals of the world do their best to deliberately stultify any attempts to ameliorate the state of the national side.
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When China finally "gets" amateur football, which it will now the new generation of kids are getting wiser about foreign culture, then the world will be probably be looking at a whole different kind of football powerhouse.
It could even have a league that rivals the best in Europe.
This assuming that the grass-roots football takes off within the next 3-4 years.
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being so overpopulous, with not enough land to plant food crops, i am not at all surprised that grass-root football got no land to grow.
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Clearly some of you commenters dont get it.
Chinese football 30 years ago was in the same state as every othr sport in the country, however from that standing start it is far easier to build success in sport like gymnastics, archery, athletics and swimming than it is in a team sport like football.
All Chinese team sports are at the same stage of development, it's just hat in other sports like Basketball the lack of depth internationally masks this. Football is the depth sport of the world so any failing is magnified.
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I agree with hackerjack. Loving your work Matt - particularly like your intro.
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Chinese Men's basketballers are ranked 8th or 12th by FIBA, but our footballers frustrated us again, those guys dont know this kind of sport. terrifying soccer game in beijing
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Sounds a bit like the old Soviet system, which didn't have much time for grassroots sport. On that analogy, while I take hackerjack's point, I would note that the Soviet Union achieved little in world football terms- one European title, I think- even though the authorities there were genuinely keen to make an impact in the world game (to the extent of sending failed coaches to the Gulag, as happened after the 1952 Olympics) By contrast I suspect the Chinese sports authorties are more interested in topping the Olympic medal table precisely because you can build success by hard work and intensive training with a focus on medal-rich but relatively thinly contested disciplines like gymnastics, shooting or even diving. Team sports on the whole just don't work that way (the only country I can think of in recent years which created a genuinely competitive team in a sport with no local traditions was South Korea in women's hockey when they got automatic entry into the Seoul Olympics)
I wonder if the disconnect highlighted in this article may shed light on the empty seats in supposedly sold out venues. Put bluntly, are the Chinese people in the mass really that interested in Olympic sport outside a few events like table tennis and diving? I suspect, as in the Soviet Union. the average Chinese sports fan would trade any number of gold medals in artistic gymnastics for a World Cup win or success in the world basketball championships
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The Chinese women football team is WAY better than the men's, yet they earned far less than them. I strongly demand the abolishment of the men's team, who are specialised in disgracing the beautiful game, disappointing the Chinese supporters and wasting loads of funding.
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I know know many will disagree, but I think class football takes just as much skill if not more than other Olympic sports.
The Chinese mentality I believe, isn't suited to the nature of football. We prefer sports that require heavily on technique and tricks. Look at the sports we dominate in:
diving, badminton, table tennis, shooting, and gymnastics.
Football requires not only the skill and cooperation, but physical and mental stamina.
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I agreee with Word4Word, we are so ashamed of talking about chinese soccer, oh men, they even can not defeat new zealand footballers. It is advisable for CFA to abolish chinese men's soccer teams
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Excuse me for my English is poor.
I might express my idea wrongly.
Because I'm a Chinese high school student.In our country, football is the tragedy. Although we've make every effort, the ending is always disappointing. Our national football team will never play wonderfully just like Arsenal do.
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Err excuse me Matt Slater, China's womens teams is one of the best in the world and have been world champions many times, also reached the final at the Olympics. I suppose you are just referring to the mens team. Yes they may not be the best in the world but in Asia they are a force and have reached the final of the Asian Cup a few years ago, also made it to the world cup in 2002. Already there are Chinese international signed up to play in Europe includinging Man UTD.
This is just sour grapes from Matt having at go at the Chinese sporting prowess over a sport they happen not to be so good at while being slaughtered by China in the Olympics. BTW No British teams qualified for Euro 2008 so I guess GB is not so good at football afterall.
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"generally speaking, Orienals can't beat westerners in terms of physical strenth."
Look at the number of medals China won in weightlifting. Also gymnastic, volleyball and occassionally in long distant running and Marathons. Orientals are stronger pound for pound.
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'being so overpopulous, with not enough land to plant food crops, i am not at all surprised that grass-root football got no land to grow.'
Hold on - the UK has a higher population density than China and we (despite the moaners) have pleny of pitches. Anyway Brazilian kids don't rely on loads of pitches to excel - their best players (and thus the best in the world) often come from ghettos were the kids learn their skills on the streets.
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This is an excellent article, highlighted mainly by the responses it has received, and I quote:
"I strongly demand the abolishment of the men's team, who are specialised in disgracing the beautiful game, disappointing the Chinese supporters and wasting loads of funding."
"I agreee with Word4Word, we are so ashamed of talking about chinese soccer, oh men, they even can not defeat new zealand footballers. It is advisable for CFA to abolish chinese men's soccer teams"
"(I) really don't understand how could Dalian people love football so much espcially when our national team plays so badly.....Chinese football could get better result if they try harder, nevertheless, never could they reach the world top"
In all seriousness, when I read the first of these comments I thought it was a joke, because in the context of the article they are absolutely laughable, but as I went on it became clear that these people really mean it.
I could go through them and pick out what I mean, but I dont think I need to,
Please!, just read these and then go back and re-read the article, cant you see that this type of attitude is EXACTLY what Rowan Simons was complaining about.
It almost hurts to read these views, Simon, I feel your pain!
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Hold you horses Moutarde. If there were english players of high enough quality and sensibly priced, then i'm sure they would get into the arsenal side. And we would probably have a national side that competes in major tournaments. Until that happens, england's finest have to settle for 2nd rate sides lika Villa and top4tottenham. And once those players manage to get their side into the top half of the premier league then maybe, just maybe, they will be considered by the big boys of english football.
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Excellent piece Matt and I think you're touching on the point without hammering it home - China only concentrates on sports they can win as a very crude propaganda statement. Competing with the rest of the world with an average team = an admission of failure, something which the Govt cannot admit. By deflecting attention away from their deficiences (of which their are many) they try to paper over their tremendous cracks.
In many ways this is entirely understandable, we see the same crude behaviour from many fans in our country - Tottenham fans in particular seem blinkered by focussing on Arsenal's youth policy as opposed to concentrating on their continued slide into mid-table mediocrity. Perhaps Spurs could tour China as an example to both...presuming anyone in China had heard of them....
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And also, to hizento
At absolutely no point did Matt have a go a Chinese Football, the negative points he made related to facts (Fifa rankings, bad results) and attitudes of the decision makers.
He was also extremely honest about the position of British Football and was indeed critical of the English game,
AND, he specifically mentioned the past success of the woman's team.
Did you not actually read the article, or do you just have a chip on your shoulder the size of your nation?
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I'm glad someone mentioned the 2002 World Cup: I know the famous coach Bora Milutonovic led the Chinese to a World Cup as he has done with USA, Mexico and Costa Rica. Not mentioned is that China is in the neighborhood of two powerful teams, South Korea and Japan who are seemingly close to joining the best in the world.
Is it a total disgrace to lose to Belgium? England were in the U23 tournament that Belgium was at last summer and were in the top 4 with Belgium behind 1 and 2, Holland and Serbia. In '02, Belgium played eventual champs Brazil to within a goal in eliminations if I remember correctly, Belgium was Euro' finalist in '80 and 4th in the World Cup in '86. Sort of a backhanded insult to them. Only recently has their national team been apparently barren.
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I find it amazing that even now people are using the 'population' of a country as a guide as to how many medals that country should get or how good they should be in a sport...There is absolutely no correlation between the two.
Its all to do with risk/reward and opportunities.
Why isnt the USA any good in football? Basically, a sportsman in the US would make far more money playing basketball, baseball, or American football. Why would they play 'soccer'?
Why isnt there a decent British tennis player (apart from Andy Murray) when Serbia has so many? In the UK, the opportunites in football is far greater.
In China, why would anyone pursue a professional career in football, when there is little/no chance of being spotted by a scout in Europe and the professional league is so poor in China.
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Population size is clearly not a factor. I mean, when you look at the current Arsenal team, there is not one first team regular who was born on this island, so I think the massive population of China should be taken out of the equation.
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my oldest son, now five, has spent many happy wkends at the junior courses of CFC here in BJ. for the first courses, he stopped running if he felt too tired. but his dad, (who's german) got mad about that and gave him a lesson of discipline, perseverance, etc. i would say that culturally, we chinese, (yes, i am Chinese) tend to shy away from physical oppositions. another very important reason is that, we don't really like team work. shining as an individual is easier than sharing glories and risks with your mates. who should have the glory to goal, and who should be the 'behind scene heroes". i would say it's polically charged on the pit as well when the guys play. currently people are talking about overhauling the entire system for football. honestly i don't see much hope. chinese men really are so disappointing. the football beaureucrats only care about pleasing their superiors so that they could remain on their seats. i stopped watching this so called professional chinese leagues long time ago but find CFA's junior training and their coaches, who reall show a hearty love of football give me much more inspiration
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Not only has football not been embraced by China, but also most of the other most populus asian countries,such as india,Pakistan,Bangladesh,etc.
I think we have to understand that in fact,football isn't the be all and end all.
More people watch cricket then the Olympics and football world cup audiences put together.
More people ski, or fish then play football at their local football clubs.
Football also has a bad reputation,footballers are bad role models,
no respect for one another or authorities.
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ngkhm8: "I find it amazing that even now people are using the 'population' of a country as a guide as to how many medals that country should get or how good they should be in a sport...There is absolutely no correlation between the two."
Moutarde: "Population size is clearly not a factor. I mean, when you look at the current Arsenal team, there is not one first team regular who was born on this island, so I think the massive population of China should be taken out of the equation."
ngkmh8 - so, erm...which two nations are miles ahead in the medal table? Oh yeah, China (1.3 billion) and USA (287 million) - think your 'absolutely no correlation' statement needs a bit of revision...
Moutarde - Do you not think the relative lack of English players at the top increases their price out of proportion, leading them to be overpriced? For example Gareth Barry at £18m. I firmly believe this is Arsenal's raison d'etre - why pay £18m, when you can pay £1-2m and mould a young foreigner to the same level? Do you honestly think Barry would cost £18m if (lets say we had 600m population instead of 60m) there were 50 players of similar quality to him in his position?
Of COURSE population matters. If Brazil had only 20m people, they would simply be an impoverished nation, not one that produces a conveyor belt of football talent.
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21. At 4:26pm on 14 Aug 2008, penguin runner wrote:
Is it a total disgrace to lose to Belgium?
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We feel disgraceful not because of the fact that our team failed but coz the way they failed. Everyone knows that Chinese male football is no comparison to Belgian in terms of both skills and physical strength(period, at least), just like Chinese basketball vs US. The fact that two Chinses players were being shown the red card for kicking and elbowing Belgian players, and the rest of the team were clearly not performing to their full strength made us wonder if our football team knows what the spirit of sport really is and if they deserve that 1000mn dollar budget they received.
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Nice to see your Article here.I am a Chinese Manchester United fans.In fact,football is the most popular sports here in China.And our football was once succes.With the Pro-League started at 1994,our football market was once great.After 7 years our team was first time into the World Cup 2002.0:2,0:3,0:4 ended with badly fail.Then the football in China started fell behind.And lots of bad things began to happen,bribery,players' fighting in and out the field etc.People started disappoint slowly.The football system here need to change Completely,or Chinese football will even worse.When our women team can won 2nd place in 1996 Olympics,our males can 0:1 to Tailand.When our bascketball team can into the world's top eight,football team is out of Asian's top ten.However, Chinese football players are the richest sports players in China(avr.)I had completely disappointed years ago.I started watching football 14 years ago when I was 10.But when can I see a strong nation football team here?Maybe my son(not born)can.But, our sports players without football play well.I'm proud of them.
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djconnell wrote:
ngkmh8 - so, erm...which two nations are miles ahead in the medal table? Oh yeah, China (1.3 billion) and USA (287 million) - think your 'absolutely no correlation' statement needs a bit of revision...
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Oh - and where are India (1 billion)and Indonesia (quite a few) in the medal tables...?
Go back to my original argument - risk/reward and opportunity. Its no good having a population of 1 billion if most of that population doesnt have the opportunity to play a particular sport and/or there is no reward.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Very interesting article!! And also nice to read some responses from the Chinese themselves, although indeed sadly many reactions are negative...
We're just surprised Asian countries where the collective seems more imporrtant than the individual do underperform in team sports. But maybe it is exactly that, while they cipher themselves away for the collective in daily life, people prefer to excell in individual sports?
As we have a weak spot for Asians (even though being Dutch) we sure hope the situation can and will improve over the next few years. It's very dissapointing to see the women's team relatively slip away to mediocrity while they were so dominating this game.
But apart from the football, we're thoroughly enjoying the Games with a lot of Chinese successes!
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First of all, don't apologize. More Chinese just need to have thicker skin and learn to graciously accept valid constructive criticism, especially when backed up undeniable facts.
I remember a few World Cup qualifiers ago, where China had to beat Hong Kong to qualify. And they didn't. Then finishing dead last behind Qatar and Iraq...
Soccer is still a very popular sport in China, up their with table tennis, basketball and badminton. It doesn't have the outsider status like in the USA, Canada or Philippines.
"Football in China will never succeed as long as the government controls it."
Spot on. The ham-handed political hacks who run Chinese football (and basketball) are holding back the sport there. Look at how they hire and fire the coaches, and in letting their top players go and play overseas.
"But as long as China thinks there is a path to international football success that involves a higher work-rate and more foreign coaches, as opposed to more players with better skills, it will continue to underachieve in the world's favourite sport."
I can't say it any better. Easier said than done though, as the USA has been trying to figure out how to get there for over a decade.
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In the late 90's when I watched football in China - my home team in Shijiazhuang was the army team 'ba yi' - Chinese teams were restricted to the number of foreign players allowed. Unlike many European teams, where non-nationals abound, nearly all the players were Chinese nationals. Perhaps if Chinese football takes on the European flavor and economics becomes the key factor, with their rise in the world economy Chinese clubs could tempt the world's best players and the standards would rise.
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I guess Chinese football is the only topic that a western journalist can report on and won't get any angry replies from defensive Chinese ppl (not as much as those pure political issue at least) :D
Maybe many non-mandarin speakers didn't notice, at the end of the China vs Belgium match Chinese spectators were actually shouting 'Xie Yalong, resign!!!' instead of cheering for our team (Xie is our team coach and an official in the country's football authority). Although red cards are nothing special in matches everywhere else in the world, the whole nation's anger was exploded at that point after being deceaved and dissapointed by corruption and all kinds of scandals involved around Chinese football (except female football of course). Get rid of Xie or his team alone won't change anything. CFA needs a complete reform, or else they should be donated as test subjects to our moon exploration programme and get lost (in the space).
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@wccsailor: All of the leagues in Asia have foreign player restrictions to some degree, even Australia. This is mainly because the rules for the AFC Champions League state that squads for the competition may contain no more than 3 foreign players in them. With that rule in place, what incentive is there to have and pay for majority foreigner teams, when only 3 of them can participate in the biggest competition in Asia?
Perhaps it's just a bad year for Chinese football, they had no teams advance from the group stage of the AFC Champions League this season either.
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#34, loved your post, we have a few players here in England who would be best off joining that space program too!
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Dear LondonYC, A little late this comment but.....
I take it from your comments regarding Shooting, Badminton etc that you have never tried any of these sports?
Shooting is a very technical, and yes, individual pursuit, but it takes immense strength (holding a rifle up and steady is really tricky) and the mental strength required to control yourself when a rush of adrenaline and a pounding heartbeat can cause a poor shot is huge. A poor shot which at 50m can mean a bullseye, scoring 10, becomes a dropped shot scoring 5.
Badminton; have you not been watching Emms and Robertson? A TEAM. Athletic in the extreme (the height that they jump is phenomenal!), requiring tactical planning, execution and a degree of co-operation that any football coach would drool over! A clash of ego would make the pairing untenable.
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That's a very, very interesting viewpoint. Thank you.
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Yes they may not be the best in the world but in Asia they are a force and have reached the final of the Asian Cup a few years ago, also made it to the world cup in 2002. Already there are Chinese international signed up to play in Europe includinging Man UTD.
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They have taken backward steps since 2002 my friend. The only reason China managed to qualify then, was thanks to South Korea and Japan already qualifying as hosts leaving a rather diluted qualification process without their bigger neighbours to upset them.
The reached the Asian Cup final in 2004 on home-soil and were beaten by a fairly average Japan side.
The national league has fallen way behind Korea and Japan. In fact, there are three Japanese teams in the quarter-finals of the Asian Champions League right now and Japan and Korea can boast 8 winners of zed tournament in the past 12 years. A Chinese team last won it in 1990.
Since their 2002 World Cup appearance, China have been surpassed in the AFC by nations such as UAE, Uzbekistan, Kuwait, Iraq, Iran, North Korea and Qatar.
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I donot think you really understand Chinese, and you just think by an European view. You hope they have interest, but they just simply donot play with you. Actually, Chinese donot really have interest wuth football. You are right. They talk, watch, but...... they never play. Look our Americans, we have not all the problems you talk about. Our American is also not good at football because all three superpowers, C,A,R, we have no much interest with football.
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If any of three superpowers, C,A,R, really have some interest with football. You European will be dead, and so... dead.
So we are out of game, which is a good news for your small countries.
Enjoy your football!
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Football is very popullar in Chinese high schools. Almost every boy is in it. The number of regular players is enormous. There are very few girls play football at high school and female team has far less support from the government or public but they still do better than their male counterpart. Why? Chinese men are simply not good at soccor. The male teams are spoiled by the fans and they make too much money without much effort.
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I think part of the problem is the is a lack of decent football pitches and suitable public spaces. In Britain, we can just go to the park with our friends to have a kick around.
I spent years in China and the only place to play football in the town where I was staying was a concrete basketball court. Hardly a suitable place to practice your sliding tackles. Big public parks are usually found in cities and are more like gardens. It seems that any empty spaces in towns and cities are seized upon as an opportunity to build and make money.
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Ms__Chief gets some points.
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Another thing to note is the work/leisure balance of the Chinese.
Most Chinese work incredibly long hours and one of the most common causes of complaint is overtime. This makes it difficult to successfully get a big group of people together for a match.
It's much easier to find just one other person to play badminton with on the street.
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I have been to Club football and played down there with some local Chinese guys and other expats. What is striking me during these Olympics is that taking about football seems to be the only time you hear Chinese people being refreshingly humble about anything to do with China! Unfortunately it goes way over the top (see posts on disbanding the team). So much emphasis is being placed on encouraging national pride through gold medal winners (every country does it I know, but not to the extent you see here) that when a team fails it inevitably results in the flipside to refected glory - i.e. reflected shame. Basketball is doing so much better at the moment because you have Yao Ming as a real superstar - there is no football player of similar ability relative to the world game.
As Matt says the key to being good at widely played team sports where behind-closed door training will not make you the best in world is to encourage the grass-routes game so that people are playing for fun not just to excel. The latter then comes naturally.
As a last point on a personal note when playing with Chinese, British and European friends some national characteristics do stick out. The French guys are shouting that the idea is not to score but to pass around and try to limit us to only 3 touches, the Brits pass but mainly forwards and often using long balls trying always to score even in training, and the Chinese guys just get their head down and take the ball on themselves until they get tackled despite screams from free team mates. Individuals vary of course but these traits are to common in each group to discount.
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Chicago boy - you should try moving to Moscow because its obviously missed your attention that Russians completely love football. St Petersbourg won the UEFA cup this year and Russia made it to the Euro semis. There are plenty of sports that China excels in and you can feel good about yourself because of it if you wish. There is no need to childishly dismiss sports where China doesn't do so well.
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Chinese Football men just need new systme and time to build a correct team and find back their confidence.
Hope they will cross the bridge when they finally come to it.
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I love china!!!!
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#41 - chicagoboy2008. Really unfortunate comments there 'chicagoboy2008'.
But why waste your time on the blogs of such a small country like ours?
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I think it's a cultural thing as well as the government. I am living in Taipei, Taiwan which has a similiar culture to the mainland. We also had to create our own league here but its now on hold as we can't even find a pitch in the capital city. There's one small amateur league here and they will only let 2 teams of expats in.
Here parent's are not interested in encouraging activities that aren't 'educational' for their children. You need to pitch soccer schools as learning English as well like the guy in this article. Basically, when the asian nations encouage participation in sport at all levels they'll become a force to reckon with (e.g Japan, Korea). China would be a powerhouse. I also think it would be beneficial for their society.
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The Chinese soccer team is unable to compete not because their male soccer players lack size but rather they lack fighting spirit. They have been over pampered and spoilt to the core. There is no fire in their belly. And it's shame that they have got away with it for so long.
They can learn a thing or two from their own female soccer players about having pride in the Chinese shirt that they wear.
Just look at the Chinese Men's Hockey team. Although they didn't stand a chance against the Germans and the Koreans, they took the fight to their opponents. Although they lost but they earned the respect of their opponents and won over the admiration of the fans. They played with their heart on the sleeve.
Size does not matter. It's the fight. And sadly that is lacking in the male Chinese soccer players. They not only disgraced themselves but also China and all Chinese soccer fans.
The whole soccer setup in China needs a total revamp from top to bottom. And the sooner the better.
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china man football team? Go to hell
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My word, we've actually had a bit of a debate! Great stuff. And thanks for all the comments from the Chinese posters.
Those of you who have made comparisons between China's sporting culture and the old Soviet model are spot on, I think. Certainly in Olympic sports, anyway. And I'm not talking about drugs. One of the things people sometimes forget about East Germany is how many things they got right - talent identification, training, nutrition etc etc. That tiny country beat the US in the medal table in Montreal (off the top of my head) and had huge success in summer and winter Games for 20 years. China is replicating that model (without the drugs, I hope) but on a much much bigger scale. You think they're winning lots of medals now, you should see what they do at the Asian Games....they will dominate future Olympic medal tables.
Football, however, is much tougher nut to crack. First, it's played by almost every country, and it's played to a high standard. You can't rustle up a gold-medal winning football programme in seven years (but you definitely can in many Olympic sports....as the mentioned who S Korea's hockey success in '88 pointed out). With so many of these Olympic sports it's about transferable skills, physiology, training, more training and then some more training. There is so much more to the big team sports and the field is a lot more competitive.
China has had more success in the women's game because women's sport is given a lot higher profile here (and communism is a factor there) and until now women's football has been neglected in the traditional football powers. China's relative standing in women's football is getting worse, not better.
As for which major team sport China will succeed in first, it will be basketball. They love it and it's the only game I've actually seen anybody play here. There are loads of courts and the shops are full of NBA merchandise. China will win an Olympic basketball gold in the next 20 years.
Must dash, Cuba have just beaten the US at baseball.
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In fact , chinese soccer is completely a joke.Everybody(football fans and people never watch football) laughs at them,including emcees in CCTV.
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There are no youth academy in China indeed!
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Here, many of us look down on Chavs. In China, only the lowest in society play football. Anyone with talent is doing something more "meaningful".
Yet, we love watching football. Funny old world.
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Its very simple,
Football (or soccer) rely on tactics, shrewdness and skills which the Chinese will have no problem with, but football is also a game with a lot of spite and unsportsmanlike plays. It is physical and unnecessarily negative.
Is football a well regulated sport? Didn't think so.
I think like most countries, the Chinese enjoy watching the good stuff, but when it comes to playing the game, they're not prepared for the worst that football brings.
Chinese people aren't confrontational (as with most Asians), that's why they prefer individual or well regulated events where they don't have to bother with too much outside influences.
But Asians are no pushovers either, remember the Japan/Korea world cup and how the Koreans beat even Italy? Even I couldn't believe the things they got away with but that's football and that's why I hate it. When its played beautifully its a great game but when ugliness starts to show its face then no one can enjoy it. In this case, at least the Koreans are prepared to fight back because they want it more.
The Chinese are happy specialising in their pet sports and are, unsurprisingly, good at them. Lets see, badminton, table tennis, diving, shooting, archery, gymnastics,
weightlifting, judo are just some of the sports they are good at right now.
The author compares China with England (in football), and wonders why with its 1+ billion population cannot produce a world class team?
Well again, its simple and its to do with social economics. Most youngsters in China do not have the available resources or training to help them realise their talent. More importantly, they don't have the money to prepare themselves for other things in life other than to earn a living.
And I always say this to people using China's population as an excuse, why doesn't the UK produce more champions despite the billions of pounds worth of resources and financial backings to support A SPORT? Or any sport for that matter?
America has been this for decades, Australia has done extremely well with this setup but the UK?
Now that is even more inexcusable if you ask me.
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I also understand the frustration of Chinese soccer fans at their national team and local teams. Soccer is nothing more than just another money making venture where players can earn big money from playing a game, and owners earning even more money from people watching a bunch of people play a game.
But at least things are well regulated in China, had they not been then think of the social problems in UK but 100 times intensified.
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If you think the football situation is bad!
In a similar vein, China has the world's highest overall number and proportion of cyclists, together with most of the worlds largest bicycle manufacturers, yet as a nation they have very little impact in the sport.
They really should be almost as dominant as they are in table-tennis! Fortunately for the UK riders, they aren't.
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Preciousinformer, you make some interesting claims.
I think you're right to suggest football is not very well regulated (run?) in China. The CFA is effectively controlled by the government (which actually contravenes Fifa regulations) and the government simply does not understand football. The professional leagues here are weak and support for the teams is very fickle. And who can blame them when the names change every other year to suit the sponsors, seasons are cut short to suit the national team and players come and go with alarming regularity.
But the real problem here is that there is no connection between the fans and the pro teams because the fans aren't brought playing the game. Anybody with a hint of talent is spotted and sent to a sports school. Those left behind carry on with their lessons. There is no mass participation in football. Until there is China's huge population advantage will not be realised.
You make some good points about the Chinese/Asian mentality and I've read and heard similar things elsewhere. There is probably something to that but I can see that changing fast as China opens up to western influences and looks for success in the bigger international team sports....but it will happen in basketball first.
I'm less convinced by your financial arguments, however. Football is not an expensive game to play. There are much poorer countries with far smaller populations doing considerably better than China at football. Also China's investment in elite sport is massive. I remember hearing somewhere that a Chinese medal here will cost eight times what a British medal will cost in London. The relative wealth of the average person in Britain or China is not really the issue - the Chinese government targets elite sport, particularly elite sports it can win Olympic medals in, in a way the British government is only just starting to do now and on a much smaller scale.
By the by, one of the most interesting things Rowan Simons told me was that one of the hardest battles he has is getting Chinese people to understand that amateur sport costs money and you can't rely on the government to pay for it. The concept of matchs fees or playing subs was totally alien to his Chinese players.
As for Britain's standing in global sport, let's just see where we are in the medal table at the end of the week. I'm fairly sure we'll be a top 10 nation, which isn't bad at all for a nation of our size and wealth. I also think we'll be the top cycling nation in the world, and there or thereabouts in rowing and sailing. And in the last few years we've been rugby world champions and de facto cricket champions, as well as making three straight quarter-finals in the major football comps. I could also throw in some reasonable individual sportsmen and women so all in all I think that's pretty good.
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Matt, thanks for the reply.
As many have said, you can't simply turn a country's fortune in a new sport in just a few years (unless the coach is Hiddink), but you are right - it all depends on how they manage football in China. Right now it isn't world class.
Having lived in China and seeing the state of education in that country, it is highly competitive, but can be corrupt as well when a politician or former politician steps in with a "my second brother's nephew has a good making of an international football player".
The kid automatically gets a career even if he doesn't end up as a world class player.
Like I said, social economics. They just don't have the proper program to recruit young talents who don't have that kind of connection. This happens everywhere in fact but the diversity between rich and poor in China is fairly substantial. If you're in a better position financially and socially then you're always going to get somewhere.
Richer countries like Australia have been participating in world cups for over 30 years and not producing any results until the last one where they reached the semi-finals, all thanks to Hiddink and his management team. Now you might think that football isn't an expensive sport (what hobby is?), but you can't boil down a team's success to just an individual, it takes an employed management to lead a team and an incredible coach.
Quality management cost money because they have to cover a wide range of expertises to train and manage the team. Look at the NBA, they have no less than 3 or 4 coaching staffs to coach every game for offensive and defensive plays. Basketball in America is big business.
In countries where basketball or football is less developed, where are they going to get that kind of backing? especially if the management aren't as experienced as the players themselves, what faith do the players have in their managers if this was the case?
Football in China is for entertainment just like the Premier League, and there is nothing wrong with that. On an international scale however it is of course a different story for both (to China's credit they do well in the Asian/Oceanic league).
Given the communist background of the Chinese and just plainly "doing it for the motherland", I think the Chinese are just happy to be good at some sports. Eventually they may catch up or fall down due to overwhelming expectations (everybody does without exceptions). If you look at another country like India, they have just one silver from Athens and one gold in Beijing, and they too have a population of over a billion.
As for Britain, we won 9 gold (30 medals) in 2004 and currently on 6 in Beijing (13 medals) as of writing.
We were on equal standing with South Korea in 2004, but they are currently ahead of us in 2008. They have a lesser population but a "healthy" sporting program.
2004 :
1. US
2. China
3. Russia
4. Australia
5. Japan
6. Germany
7. France
8. Italy
9. South Korea
10. Great Britain
Aldington's win in her 2 races was a surprising bonus to GB and compares favorably to our last effort of 2 bronze for swimming events in Athens. According to Athens, GB's strength seem to lie in the use of equipments and animals like a bike, horse or boat. These are certainly elite sports and not something that Nigeria or Ethiopia can afford to invest in anytime soon. That puts us in an advantage somewhat.
And lastly, in Asia, it cost less than £0.50 to swim in a pool. The local swimming pool near my place cost £3.60. So much for swimming hopefuls. I bet it would be cheaper to swim in America and Australia as well.
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Excellent article,I remember Rowan from my football days in Beijing,when we both played for the Peking Strollers.
Rowan was a talented,skillful player who exemplified sportsmanship.
Glad to read that he is still involved in the game.
Cheers Mate.
Jimmy Hamilton.
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It's quite simple why China has produced no amazing footballers.
Since the age of about 7, just about all Chinese children are either specialized to become top intellects who will make their way through the top schools and universities eventually landing on a high paying job.
Otherwise, for sport, the country has a system which is effectively a sports academy for all children who will specialise in the sports area. This includes just about everything.
However, talent is found in countries like the UK because the children actually have time to do other things since they have no homework compared to Chinese kids.
Because of that, they have hardly any time to have hobbies and because of that footballers will hardly appear.
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