- 20 Aug 08, 12:10 PM
Shunyi Lake
Open water swimming took its bow at the Olympics today - and what a debut it was!
The 10k race had everything from controversy to a fantastic sprint finish - and two more medals for Britain thanks to Keri-Anne Payne and Cassie Patten.
I really had my eyes opened to what a tough physical battle it is.
The girls were getting bashed and kicked in the face - and by no means always by accident.
There was a lot of physical contact - but that made it all the more fascinating to watch. It was clear to me that Cassie Patten was pulled back by the German swimmer Angela Maurer with about 150m to go.
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That not only slowed Cassie down, but it allowed Larisa Ilchenko to get ahead, and the Russian went on to win.
I'm not saying that definitely deprived Cassie of gold - Ilchenko has more experience and she had not lost on the world stage since 2004.
But neither Cassie not the Russian were happy - there were a lot of dirty tactics out there. Ilchenko played the game and won.
She stuck behind the leaders and then struck in the final stretch. And it wasn't her who pulled Cassie back. In fact she felt hard done by the aggro too.
Afterwards she said: "I had to clash on numerous occasions. I was trying to break away from the Brazilians, they were quite aggressive, sometimes bordering on unsportsmanlike. This is swimming after all, not boxing."
But that's all part of the attraction of the event - there is a rule book (believe it or not) which states there should to be no physical contact - but no-one seems to take much notice!
The rules state that a swimmer can be yellow carded for interfering with another competitor - a whistle is blown, a card is shown and the swimmer has to acknowledge it before carrying on. If they get another one, they're out.
But maybe with a bit more experience we could have grasped the gold?
There were loads of cards flying about, yellow and red - it really was everyone for themselves.But neither of our girls got carded.
Maybe had we played the race in a bit less of a true British gentlemanly fashion, and played it a bit dirty, Cassie and Keri-Anne could have worked together to block the Russian out.
But as it is, a silver and a bronze medal was still a fairytale finish.And what a finish it was.
After almost two hours of swimming the three of them were swimming flat out for the line matching each other stroke for stroke.By the time they crossed there was just a few seconds between them.
Most people will not appreciate how much that race will have taken out of the girls.
It is two hours of swimming flat out.
You use up so many calories you can't swim that far at that pace without taking on food and water.
So during the race, officials hold out poles with baskets containing food and water, which the girls consume while flipped over on their backs.
It can lose you valuable time - but you can't do without it, especially water - the swimmers can get dehydrated even though they are surrounded by the stuff!
I thought the girls got their tactics just right here.
In order to cut down the time they spent on these transitions, they were carbo-loading for three days beforehand - and Cassie was even drinking lake water during the race, she was so determined not to stop.
It meant they didn't have to slow down for very long and that could stay out in front - a good idea because if the pack had caught them they'd have swum right over them!
Steve Parry was talking to BBC Sport's Claire Stocks
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Probably Team GB's hardest earned medals so far? Well done to both of them!
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Amazing effort by the girls, well done. Horrible to hear about this cheating - and that is what it is - if the rule book says no contact then the others cheated!
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How good was that? Bonkers but brilliant. I finally thought I was going to get an early night, and ended up being completely absorbed by the jellyfish-dodging event. I admit that I might not have made it to the end if it had been two Kazakhs leading the way, but the girls were just brilliant, one of the ballsiest performances of the Games.
I hope they get their due reward on the highlights show - it seems that now we're into the athletics the BBC seems to be ignoring the other sports, even when they feature great performances from GB. Same applies to the BMX - I didn't expect to find that so riveting. Contact versions of non-contact sports are A Good Thing. :-))) Oh, and make sure they feature the feeding-with-fishing-rods - one of the most bizarre sights of the games.
I think the girls might find they're getting a few more perks in the coming weeks than business class on the way home. The wide-eyed enthusiasm of that bunch is infectious, even though you're right that their naivete didn't help their cause in the water. Good for Cassie to be known for the stuff that matters rather than just the Dame Becky comments though. And great for KA to come through for silver when she was the dark horse before the race.
Steve - one thing though. In the triathlon the BBC commentator kept going on about how good it was to have clean water, and the Aussie triathlete champion next to him kept politely trying to tell him that clean water was a bad thing, you wanted to draft behind other swimmers like in cycling. I guess it's a bit like the formation adopted by geese when they're flying. He even tried to describe the optimum shape for a peloton. I can see that pool swimmers would appreciate the clean water more than proper openwater swimmers, but was it really an advantage in absolute terms?
The 10km commentary didn't benefit from someone who had actually done the event, and perhaps might have been a bit more informed on that front? With the greatest respect, even a triathlete would have been a more useful "expert" than a pool swimmer. Actually there's a thought - have Cassie and KA tried triathlon? Bet they'd be good at it.
On a similar note - was there any particular reason for hosting the 10km in the rowing lake rather than at the Ming Tombs like the triathlon, other than it would be smoother and have longer straights? That was perhaps the most spectacular venue of the Games. Where's the 2012 openwater being held? Swimming down the Thames past the sights of London to the Olympic site would be cool, I'm not sure they would be drinking the water en route though.....
Great to see du Toit perform so well. But is she at an unfair advantage because she's got fewer bits for the Germans to grab hold of? ;-/ More generally, I was surprised even the swimmers with two legs didn't appear to use their legs that much - is that just an illusion, or is keeping their shape in the water more important than the motive power?
[warning to other posters, don't try to shorten 10km, you get caught by the filter]
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Personally I don't mind the "cheating" - that kind of stuff is what makes the event interesting, not getting caught is part of the skill. It's like bouncers in cricket, or what goes on inside a rugby scrum. It was just a shame that the British girls didn't fight back - I was screaming at them to do a double move on the Russian. Slam the brakes on, one slides her legs under the Russian, the other does a fly kick on top. That'd sort her.
Alternatively, to discourage the grabbing from behind - wear spurs. And I'm not talking about the ones from White Hart Lane.
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If the German did pull a swimmer back this is deliberate cheating. In my mind it is as bad as drug taking, trying to sneakily gain an advantage without anyone seeing. She should be banned appropriately.
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hey steve,
Wow!!! what an unbelievable race that was. As i couldn't sleep i started watching about an hour into the race, and when the bbc switched to bmx i continued to watch on interactive. i was totally gripped.
Really enjoyed your expert analysis, especially as it was an inaugural event. good work.
I had mixed emotions for the girls at they end. Gutted they didn't win but was still proud of their herculean effort.
I always had the feeling the russian had a bit left in the tank, then maybe not, then she was back in it. gripping stuff. plaudits to cassie, to have the russian tapping her feet the whole way and just get on with it, i'd have snapped.
And hats of to both the girls for the dignity they showed in defeat. not only AMAZING athletes, but class human beings too.
I've tried to explain the race to the rest of my office today, but i guess it's just one of these things that must be viewed live, as it happens for the full dramatic experience.
Not too sure i'll stay up to watch the men's race as am knackered today, but you never know....
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Have a look at the interview of the 2 girls by Claire Balding. It is the best post race interview I have ever seen.
Considering what they had been through, they were so bright, cheerful and lucid. Well done girls.
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This is not Swimming!!!
Ita a martial atr that takes place in the water!
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Stop_it _Aggers,
I don't know how to quantify the advantage it gives being behind someone, or to explain why, it just does. I do know that it allows you to sustain a faster pace over a greater period of time than would be possible otherwise. At my old club we used to refer to it as a*se swimming, for obvious reasons.
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talos1977 - know what you mean about trying to explain why it was so good. I think it's the contrast between the mesmeric rhythm of the first 1'55", and the utterly nailbiting final 300m sprint, as different swimmers tried to make their move and failed to break the British girls. I know I was literally jumping up and down shouting at the telly at 4am in the morning.
Will be hard to capture that contrast on the highlights - perhaps the way to convey just what endurance is required would be to break out of the conventional "package" formula and have something more akin to the live experience. Show the start until Payne/Patten are in the lead, then go off to the BMX highlights, then show them still grinding away, then the windsurfing highlights, then show them drinking from fishing rods, then athletics and so on before showing that final 200m or whatever. And the girls should give good interview....
On David Davies - he's blogged about tonight elsewhere on this site, he seems optimistic despite messing up the 1500m final because he had failed to recover from the semi.
Kev - I wouldn't count your chickens on Germany, their version of GB cycling is canoeing, which hasn't had many finals yet. That must be a sport we should be good at, with it being sitting down on water and everything - and has a good number of medals.
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The one thing that amazed me was how close it was. Like the land marathon, I had expected large gaps between the competitors at the end of the race.
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Those girls need to harden up and fight back!!
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Sounds like you guys (the ones who don't have to get up at 6.50?) had fun last night!
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Well done Keri-Anne and Cassie, what a fantiastic achievement - an excellent addition to the Olympics too!
Aggers, as far as I know the open water swimming in 2012 is being held in the dock by the ExCel centre, where they currently hold the triathlon.
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I thought most people had learned by the age of 5 or 6 that a heel in your brother or sisters face or nether regions at full pelt usually disuades them from pulling you under??
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I think the Open Water Swim is in the Serpentine in Hyde Park as the Triathlon will be there.
Well done to both the girls, and kudos to Cassie for her great comments after the race with Rebecca Addlington the other night. Absolute standout quote of the Games and for that you are a true star in my eyes!
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Really wish I'd got up early for this, looked really good on the replays, and great interview afterwards much funnier than most of those are.
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Nothing against Cassie but Mark Foster was the one who started the 'Dame Becky' stuff. Adlington said in an interview after the 400m that he had.
Although the way Cassie Patten did it was far funnier.
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"Kev - I wouldn't count your chickens on Germany, their version of GB cycling is canoeing, which hasn't had many finals yet. That must be a sport we should be good at, with it being sitting down on water and everything - and has a good number of medals"
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Unfortunately, apart from Tim Brabants, not especially. However recently the British Canoe Union have been 'doing a cycling' by headhunting athletes who maybe haven't made the grade in their sports and fast-tracking them for London. Fingers crossed for 2012.
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Serpentine? Won't they have to cull all the wildlife in advance, there's more duck **** than water in there? Still, I guess those people who swim there on Christmas Day haven't died of salmonella yet. Worth noting that they had separate venues in Beijing for triathlon and openwater swimming. I suppose the Serpentine is safer than swimming the Tideway - although the Thames Barrier would provide a natural finish line....
willy86 - I think the reason it's so close is this whole "drafting" business, which makes swimming more like the Tour de France than running a marathon.
Doc_Kev - as someone who likes to keep (relatively) dry when doing sport on water, it was thanks to your passing comments on another thread that made me aware of the swimming drafting thing.
Thinking about it, I guess it's logical, the fluid dynamics will be similar to bodies moving in air, but there will be more of an effect because water needs more energy to move a given volume. You can think of it just in terms of the energy needed to create a bow wave. I've seen reference to a Wikipedia article somewhere, but just imagine a "spearhead" of 6 people in a triangle. The point man has to create 100% of a bow wave on his own, the two behind him create 50% of a bow wave, and the one in the middle at the back isn't creating a bow wave at all as such. It's more complicated than that, but it gives you an idea. On the other hand, in the water being in "dirty" water creates technical problems like breathing in waves, missing strokes and the like. Proper openwater swimmers will be less disadvantaged by those factors than pool swimmers, so logic would put pool swimmers at the top of the spearhead, in the clear water.
I didn't want to be too hard on Steve, I enjoyed the commentary, but last night the team did seem to miss the one technical aspect of the sport, and I hope he does some homework on it before tonight! A chat with a triathlete and perhaps a glance at Wikipedia should be all that's necessary.
Happened to look at the ASA website and came across these :
Keri-Anne :
Role models: Former training partner Steve Parry. He is one of the nicest, hard working guys you could meet. He is so determined he could do anything he puts his mind to. I was so pleased he won the medal in Athens (Olympics 2004 200m Butterfly bronze) it was the result he deserved. I use to get a lift to training everyday from Steve and Ade Turner. They are the only two people who can make me laugh at 5am!
Cassie :
Describe yourself in three words: Determined / Tough / Nutter
I think that would apply to anyone who does that event - from Ilchenko to du Toit and our girls. But how appropriate that we have a competitor named Payne....
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The trouble about condoning cheating is when then to you toe the line ?
Ice hockey is the example as they permit a lot of fighting by not expelling the perpetrators and now it resembles all in wrestling.
Water Polo is hard to monitor but its full of dirty tactics under water.
To suggest that the British should learn to be dirty cheaters too to balance things is a despicable suggestion but if BBC allows it thats their call I guess.
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I understand the bow wave idea of leading the group being a disadvantage but at the same time surely if you are trying to create the force to move you forward off of the water. For that, surely, still water is better as it isnt already moving. Here comparison to cycling is different as cyclists get their force off of the floor not the air so a more accurate analogy would be flying in still vs turbulent air ... I have no idea how much of a difference there would be though. Just thought that being at the front wouldn't be only bad for the swimmers. I believe that in rowing (similar as getting propulsion from the water) being in clear water is considered an advantage.
I too was mystified why they didn't slow for a moment and give the person tapping them a quick taste of their own medicine but oh well, was really amazing effort anyway!
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I am not even British (I am French and embarrassed at our performance so far...) but I was rooting for the Brits. The pair were simply amazing and a real pleasure to listen to at the interview after the race. Well done, as someone else has said, it must be among the hardest medals to win.
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Just want to send my personal congrats to the girls! Truly phenomenal efforts, great racing - two of the hardest earned medals the Brits have got!
Loved the post race interview too, two real stars of this team!
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Jru430 - I don't pretend to understand all the physics of it, and I guess it's a balance between various conflicting factors - but I think we have to take the empirical evidence from the triathletes that on balance, drafting is a Good Thing.
I take your point about where you're applying the force, but rowing if anything disproves your comment. Force still gets transmitted quite nicely from blade to water even in "dirty" water - as long as the blade stays under water. The reason why rowers like clean water is more to do with it upsetting the balance of the boat. Which is absolutely critical, as rowing is effectively a symmetrical stroke - both blades are out of the water at the same time. If either catches the water you are in severe trouble, the boat starts rocking from side to side, the blades on one side can't be lifted out of the water, and it all goes pear-shaped. And the tolerances are very fine - just a couple of degrees out and you're stuffed.
In contrast, freestyle swimming is more akin to kayaking, where only one blade/arm is out of the water at any one time. You'll notice that kayakers seem to get down the whitewater quite effectively, the tolerances are a lot less fine.
One other thing looking at the ASA site - I hadn't realised that KA was born in South Africa - anyone know when she moved here? No wonder that SA are doing so badly in these Games, when so many of their potential "Pietersens" in middle class sports like swimming have emigrated.
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Fabulous race - and for me so much better than pool swimming!
I'd be quite happy to see them drop some of the pool events to increase the number of open events.
2,000 5,000 10,000 anyone?
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They already do 5km, 10km and 25km in the worlds. 25km! But to be honest I'm not sure you gain much by going over 5km other than just inflicting pain/Payne on the participants. From a spectator POV, an hour of paddling is enough. If you want more, there's always triathlons - 1500m openwater for the Olympic distance, 3000m for ITU Long Distance, 3800m for ironman. But then you have to wait while they cycle 100 miles and then do a full land marathon as well....
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Stop_it_Aggers
Will you please stop banging on about triathlons, a lot of open water swimmers find it really annoying.
We don't wear wet suits, just swim further and faster.
They are different sports, why dont you ask Bolt to commentate on the marathon running for example? Hey, they both run
And 'drafting' helps quite significantly, even in a pool, and the leg kick is only used to keep the body horizontal and thus improve hydodynamic efficiency.
What a sport and lets be having more of it please!!
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hey aggers,
i get what you mean about the contrast between the body of the race and the finish, however what surprised me was how gripped i was during the whole race.
what with the russian's constant pressure, presence and tactics, the chinese girl who dropped away, then the brazilians attacking and fading away. truly exciting and thoroughly enjoyed the commentary, whether or not steve called the technical aspects 100% accurately, he's bloody entertaining. and the other commentator, who's name escapes me (sorry dude) did great as always.
did anyone else see the bit just after halfway when the russian went way out wide, then flying back into the brazilian? surreal.
And, i was even fortunate enough to catch adlington smash the field to bits the other night live, as it happened.
i'm a huge footy fan, love the motoGP and one of the few scots who likes cricket but swimmings fast becoming one of my fave sports to watch.
good luck david davies tonight! think i've persuaded myself to stay up and watch the race tonight...
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I'm another one who started to watch it for a few minutes and I watched it through to the end and I absolutely loved it.
I must admit to shouting at the screen for the British girls to give the Russian girl a good kicking and not let her past.
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Congratulations to all three British open water swimmers, outstanding efforts. I missed the women's swim but was asleep by 7pm tonight and up at 2am to watch Davies. What an enthralling event!
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Just read about that Welsh boy who won the silver and threw a bottle of water over a female Chinese official who was trying to rush him to the medal presentation - how rude of him and what a disgrace. His medal is tainted by his boorish behaviour. Typical British youth behaviour.
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Anne Payne and Cassie Patten were robbed of the 10 KM { 6.21 Miles } as they were being held back by the females behind them.
What a Huge achievement they really deserved two Gold medals.
I watched all two hours of the race and it was fantastic - absolutely fantastic
very proud of them - they should get the MBE for this.
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leelau: Davies said afterwards that he was delirious with exhaustion after the race and barely knew where he even was for the last part of it. Didn't see the incident myself, but that could be at least a contributing factor to it.
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one headline read " whingeing aussies ";who is moaning now ?
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tweegirl: a contributing factor? so, he should apologize what he had done. Don't you think any shameful person had their excuse? of course, glitter has one as well.
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neutronheath - I'll bang on about whatever I like. :-) Just enjoy the fact that people are discovering your sport for the first time and loving it. But FYI - none of the triathletes wore wetsuits in the Olympic event - in fact Ky Hurst was rather more covered up in the openwater event. But then, as an ex-ironman champion, he must know how impossible it is to switch between the two sports. In any case you're missing my point - which was who the BBC should use as their expert commentator since they didn't have dedicated openwater expertise (hell, even the people winning the medals didn't have much of that!).
Now it seems churlish to at all question the swimming knowhow of someone who's beaten Phelps at the Olympics, let alone someone like Steve who unlike many swimmers actually has a personality and gives enjoyable commentary. But neutronheath - in the absence of an openwater expert would you prefer commentary from a pool swimmer or someone who has swum as part of a peloton in openwater, with no lanes, wearing skimpy lycra-based clothing? [other elastomer fabrics are available] Anyway, I really don't want to make too much of this angle - it's just a matter of experience in what is after all a new sport for TV commentary.
Talos - I agree on the fascination of the race even in the earlier stages. And I think this is the moment to praise one of the best technical aspects of these Games - the little boom cameras they had for both the triathlon and openwater. They really drew you into the action and made you appreciate those subtleties you mentioned, I don't think it would have been nearly so gripping if it had just been filmed from the bank say. I'd say the same about some of the shots they got of the rowing from the wire camera, it's a similar idea. So kudos to the Chinese (??) for those.
Just as an idea for future TV presentation - it would be helpful at times to have a graphic overlay showing where they "should" be heading, it gets quite disorientating at times. Perhaps on the "long" shots you could have a line indicating the shortest route between the current marker buoys, and on the boom camera you might have a little "compass" showing where they should be heading. Not something you'd want on all the time, but it might help at times - for instance, when Ilchenko did that crazy wobble, and in the closing stages of the men's race.
Which, showing Sanya Richards-esque powers of recovery, I sadly managed to miss most of live - I dozed off after the first few hundred metres, woke up briefly with a lap to go, and then again once they had switched to volleyball or some such. At least most of it is on iPlayer....
Incidentally, on the "cheating" thing, when interviewed on the Thursday highlights show, Keri-Anne said she'd had no particular problems with being pulled back, it was just Cassie who got tugs from the German. Which might have cost her the silver at KA's expense, don't think she would have beaten Ilchenko though.
grant20126 - noone's defending Davies - what he did was understandable, but not defensible. But your comparison to Gary Glitter is just repugnant. You try telling those little girls that what Glitter did to them was comparable to an exhausted, near-hallucinating athlete throwing a bit of water over someone who had been pulling at him and shouting at him in a language he didn't understand. You try telling that to those girls - and see how they respond.
Anyway - many congrats to all those who completed the course, and of course special plaudits to the GB swimmers, du Toit and van der Weijden - roll on the Great North Swim?
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Stop_it_Aggers:
For god's sake, Glitter and Davies are both british shameful character in China now. I am comparing Glitter and Davies not the victims.
Why are you so confident "someone who had been pulling at him and shouting at him in a language he didn't understand"? Are you misled by the media? Where are the evidence? Why BBC cut off the live record of this part.
I just remind you that London will host the 2012. Brits will contribute the Olympic volunteers and officials. So you think it will be understandable that althetes from non-English countries may attack Brits offcials who ask them follow the rule.
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I am really disappointed what had happened. Obviously, Chinese Olympic Officials are now playing down as they don’t like damage the games and they have to cooperate with British officials because London is the next host city. But the Chinese people are really anger and the British reputation has been damaged.
BBC/TGB/David, please don’t fool yourself and say sorry for what you had done.
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On the Davies incident, I've replied over on the blog about the men's race :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/olympics/2008/08/marathon_swim_delivers_another.html
Going back on topic for Steve - I noted you'd been doing some homework by the time of the men's race. ;-/ But you must surely qualify for "commentator's curse of the year" in that race :-( - absolutely gutting though. Despite that, I have bigged you up over on Roger Mosey's blog. ;-/
I assume the Beeb will be covering the Great North Swim?
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