- 15 Aug 08, 07:43 AM
Water Cube, Beijing
It's ironic that Ryan Lochte could be making an attempt on Spitz's magic seven - if it wasn't for the freakish ability of his US team-mate Michael Phelps.
The pair of them could have done with a team of event co-ordinators and a project manager to get them through the finals this morning.
Firstly, Lochte was competing in two finals separated only by 25 minutes.
From the moment he got out of the pool after breaking the world record on the 200m backstroke he had to fight his way through 150 metres of the world's TV, radio and press media packed into the mixed zone wanting quotes for their pieces.
He managed to politely bat them all away and once away from the bright lights of the main pool could concentrate on his warm down, helping his body to recover as quickly as possible.
He would only have had time to do around 300 metres warm down which is not ideal by any means.
Usually before an Olympic final swimmers like to put their feet up for an hour before the race, do some gentle stretching and listen to their own motivation music.
Lochte would only have had time to towel down and put on his tracksuit to parade out for the final of the 200m individual medley.
In fact he must not have had time to put on his tracksuit - and paraded out in his swimsuit only.
It's highly unusual to see a swimmer walking out for an Olympic final without the national tracksuit and it raised whispers of doubt around his potential performance amongst the media in the mixed zone.
Phelps was simply brilliant in the 200m individual medley and broke the spirit of his competitors on the first 100m, turning well under world-record pace at the halfway mark.
He secured his sixth gold in a world record time which leaves him only one gold away from Spitz's feat of 1972.
But my eyes were focussed on Lochte who was battling for third.
He claimed the medal and went under the Olympic record - and this for me shows powers of recovery even greater than Phelps'.
Phelps is revolutionising the sporting landscape with his efforts and the manner in which he is doing it is phenomenal.
Prior to the games, eight golds - all in world records times - was incomprehensible.
But now only 48 hours away from his final swim it seems the incomprehensible is now possible.
The Americans will win the medley relay on Sunday (0400 BST) by a long long way so now it would seem that only Milorad Cavic of Serbia , his main rival in the 100m butterfly on Saturday (0313 BST), can stop Phelps in his quest.
After winning Olympic races adding up to over 3km - surely he can do one final 100m to make him immortal in the history books?
In stark contrast to Phelps' results, Katie Hoff came here trying to win five gold medals.
She is now desperate to get on the plane home after "only" winning silver and two bronze.
The Olympic Games is a celebration of courage and Michael will need a bucket load of it in the next 24 hours.
Oh and a big bowl of pasta, lots of sleep and some wise words from his coach Bob Bowman.
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Comments
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Good Old Michael. Even he can calmed my nerves watching the 200IM with his first 100m.
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Have you seen this new ad by America olympian swimmer Amanda Beard. Are people taking advantage of the Beijing Olympics to voice political opinions?
http://getactive.peta.org/campaign/amanda_beard?c=weekly_enews
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Not sure that Phelps is going to have it all his own way in the 100m Fly.
Mirolad Cavic has posted a faster time (in the heats) than Phelps has ever swum, and 0.11 faster than Phelps has swum this year.
He is also a lot fresher having pulled out of the Beijing 100m freestyle Semi FInal (despite having the 6th fastest time from the heats) specifically to concentrate on beating Phelps in the 100m fly.
Phelps will definitely finish ahead of Crocker but I just wonder if Cavic might surprise a lot of people and rain on Phelps' parade?
On the other hand this IS Michael Phelps!
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just wondering how come so many of them are beating the world record, seems every race is lowering the record why ???
even 8th place in one race beat the record ...
means the records mean nothing
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Phelps, medals, greatest olympian?
Phelps, boring, greatest hype!
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This may be conspiracy theory, but with so may World records being broken in the pool how do we know that the Chinese didn't build the pool just a little bit smaller so they could say all the records were broken at their Olympics.
That is crazy talk right?
I don't want to take anything away from Phelps though he is truly magnificent.
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This swimming thing. So many world records by such huge margins. Phelps simply brilliant! and all the winners really deserve the victories but I have been saying the same thing as jamesmwood for days. has anybody actually measured the length of this pool? (apart form the Chinese)
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You are joking? 6 and 7. Seriously? Please don't get too defensive but the idea that the Chinese have deliberately delivered a 'short' pool in unfathomably ridiculous. Firstly, these things are checked. (Next you'll be thinking the athletics track is 398 m). Secondly, haven't you heard or read the many commentators (Karen Pickering not least) mentioning the excellence of the pool: 3m deep and with extra lanes on the outside to stop any waves rebounding and breaking rythm and taking off those fractions of a second. Finally, it's the Olympics...
Seriously: the Games aren't run by cowboys. I'm amazed.
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4. River_Pines....are you joking.
How can the world records be meaningless just because someone finishing last broke the old record.
The fact that a new one is set is amazing. Just think no-one has ever swam over these distances before....EVER.
Breaking a world record is always an amazing achievment, in particular when you consider how many Phelps' is breaking. Truly one of the best sportsmen ever.
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So the fact that people who would probably never have broken the previous World record is because the pool is 3m deep and that there are extra lanes. Ah, I see thanks for educating me.
I never said that the games were run by cowboys, I was implying that they were run by people who have deliberately misled people (the opening ceremonies), lied to the world about improving air pollution and human rights and told us that all the events we sold out.
If the shoe fits...
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people are talking about how the new suits are helping the matters, is there anything substantial in that? can they really have advanced that much?
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I'm sorry but I just don't buy into this greatest olympian malarky that is being heralded to Phelps. No doubt that he is a quality performer but these are short distances he is racing at.
I would rate all marathon runners as a greater olympians than him - endurance, pace, pain, pleasure, heartache all in under 3 hours.
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The suits are the real deal. I swam in one the other day and it made over a second of difference for me and given that I'm just a club swimmer imagine the difference it'll make to the pros...
I don't believe that the pool is 49 metres long - I reckon it'll have been checked properly not to mention the fact that the swimmers themselves wouldn't want the records if they ever discovered they had been engineered...
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I would rate all marathon runners as a greater olympians than him - endurance, pace, pain, pleasure, heartache all in under 3 hours.
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i would argue that all you need for a marathon is stamina, where is the technique? the pain from a sprint, you try 200m butterly!! as for hearache and pressure, thats only if you are Paula the Quitter. Its funny how people undermine Phelps because of the distances or because swimming has various varieties, but why dont track athletes do more events, you can do more than one distance, and that goes for sprinters and endurance, I would argue if you are really GREAT, you can try something like javelin and hammer, its not far different than breaking records in more than one stroke
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if michael johnson done some hurdles too, maybe he would be up to phelps standard :-p
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I can't really comment upon all the records being broken - but there is one reason that Michael Phelps is breaking all his....
All of the records Phelps is breaking were originally set by humans, this guy is not. Based on his proportions as set out by an earlier BBC article I am forced to draw the conclusion that at least one of his parents is in fact, a dolphin
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I don't see what all the fuss is about really. Don't get me wrong here, What Phelps has done is pretty amazing, and more than most people will achieve in a lifetime, but all this talk of greatest athlete ever and greatest Olympian ever is just ridiculous.
Fair enough he is a supremely fit athlete and statistically he may be the greatest Olympian, but how many other events at the Olympics can once person enter into 8 events. I am not aware of any.
Of his 6 medals to date in Beijing, 2 so far have come from relay events which require a team effort, and to which his input is only 25%.
If he does win 8 gold, then 3 of his 8 will have come from relay events.
All the world record are pretty special to, but there have been numerous arguments as to just how much of an advantage the new swim suits have given modern swimmers. Stick them all in the pool in their budgie smugglers and then we'll see how many records get broken.
No doubt a very good and supremely fit athlete. The greatest ever though... I don't think so, and far from it!
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I don't understand why people keep knocking Michael Phelps. He is the greatest Olympian of all time and how can anyone argue different. He has at least one more olympics in him in 2012 so I can see him easily breaking the 15 medal barrier. The fact is it is immensely hard to do what he has done. To be at his standard in more than one stroke for starters is rare. Not many other swimmers win medals in more than one stroke.
As for the question about the new suit, many swimmers aren't even wearing it!
Michael Phelps is the greatest swimmer of all time and with his record, the greatest olympian.
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Records aren't being broken becuase of a short pool. If the pool was short, the records wouldn't be recognised.
Records are going because a) atheltes are getting faster b) an excellent pool and c) because of the new Speedo suits most of them are wearing - they really are that good. My brother wears one and he along with many of the GB Paralympic team will be wearing them at the paralympics next month too
Of course some records would have been broken without the suits, but not so many and not by the amount that they have been broken by in the last week (4 seconds of a relay).
If the suits weren't around, I'm sure Phelps would still have won the medals he's won, but I doubt he would have smashed six world records in the process.
Of course the suits are slightly controvorsial as not everyone/all countries can afford them. Plus there is the argument that swimming should really be in basic form of man in water with minimal wear, but if they are legal and it means dropping from a gold to 4th place if you didn't wear one, would you leave yours at home?
Phelps is probably the greatest swimmer of all time as if everyone raced in their smalls, he'd still probably win. But greatest Olympian ever no. That goes to a certain Mr Redgrave who performed at the highest level over 5 Olympic games (20 years!).
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people are saying "its the suits" i just wondered if people had noticed that phelps doesnt always wear the full suit, in fact i think ive only seen him in it 3 times at the olympics he seems to prefer the bottom half of it only?
Also everyone who seems to undermine the achievement and put it down to the "suits" will you take the same stance when world records start to go in the athletics if they are aided by the allowed amount of tail wind?
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post 20.
Wind is natural. Plus if the wind levels go above a certain level in athletics records are not counted.
Putting on a suit that is super tight and puts your muscles and body into the most streamline shape isn't natural. It's an accessory and one that not everyone can afford.
Of course it's not all down to the suits, but the majority of athletes at the games are wearing them. In addition, the majority of world records have all been broken wearing one.
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northern_owl. I didn't knock Michael Phelps, not once, I'm merely pointing out various facts that people havn't really considered in when in awe of his feats. Greatest Olympian Statistically, but as Redtounge points out it's the likes of Steve Redgrave that should be considered more so among the greats!
and on a stage outside of the Olympics there have been many a superior athlete.
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As far as the records are concerned, a great part of the lower times is the LZR swimsuit and pool design. The wider, deeper pools greatly enhance the speed and with the LZR suits, times are tumbling. But complaining about the WRs is a bit of a red herring.
The fact that Phelps is swimming so many events and winning them all is purely a measure of how great a swimmer he is - just like all the greatest swimmers he wins when the chips are down. We can disregard the records as a measure of all-time greatness just like we did with the new clapper-skate in LT speedskating. What we are looking for are those that dominate and awe use by sheer ability - Phelps certainly fits that mold.
I suspect the 100m butterfly is going to be difficult for him to win - the challengers are fired up and they'd love to hand him the loss. I want him to win it but that race may be a 50/50 proposition.
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By the way, 5 Olympic games only equals 16 years. Having said that, Sir Redgrave is certainly one of the greatest Olympians ever. Having living in England for 10 years I greatly admired his abilities, personality, and true sportsmanship.
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12: yes he is great even though he's doing short distances he chos eotdo them nd be great at them whioch he is. marathon runners yes endure nd all that lark but fact is phelps os great no matter wat distances he does hes managed to prove to us that such is possible!!
and this stuff about the chinese decieving the rest of the world is again ridiculus, yes they may have tweaked a few things but nevertheless their ceremony was outstanding and it proved to the world how ahead they are with technology and their potential for greatness, i want to see the 2012 olympics top that!!
this phelps thing may just be turning into jealousy, the guy was lucky to be born with such body proportions which instead of lookin at himslef think gosh im freak he's turned it into an advantage that clearly some can't deal with!
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lears78,
that wasn't menat to be a jab at you, lots of people seem to have been saying that michael isn't all that great.
I'm not saying he is the only great olympian, Steve Redgrave was a huge favourite of mine, he was amazing and a truely brilliant olympian. But what I am saying is that going to the olympics is about medals. Steve won 5 and so he is considered amazing. Micheal has won 11 and will win more and surely if your saying the greatest olympian it has to go on how many medals they have won.
I think Kelly Holmes was awesome too but she isn't one of the greatest olympians as she hasn't won enough medals!
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With this morning's win I think Phelps has know won gold in 17 consecutive events - 11 of those individual events - in World Events dating to the 2005 World Championships. I think he's won 29 gold medals in 35 World events since the 2000 Games in Sydney. Those numbers are unbelievable. 25 of those events were individual swims he's won 20. Keep in mind that this is over eight years and not everything relies on teammates.
As I mentioned above, I love Sir Redgrave, but to see people smack down Phelps for competing in relays - and intonating that he's only a 'part' of that team - and then throwing in Sir Redgrave - wholly a member of team his entire career - is embarrassing. I can say that Phelps is the greatest swimmer of all-time; I can say Sir Redgrave is the greatest rower of all-time.
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Redgrave has only won ONE medal every 4 years, and thats in a team event, and in his last he was probably carried home. Why could he not also compete in other rowing events, like the 2's? You think its easy to have a final and then a heat 20 min later, the fact that other olympians only compete in 1 or 2 events is their choice, not because swimming allows more.
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Redgrave is good by British standards, but winning one medal is nothing special, especially in a team event. Many sportmen dominate their events, Im sorry but nostalgia aside, his only accolade is having the privilege that team GB have been good for a number of years, and its not as competitive as other sports to boot
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"the fact that other Olympians only compete in 1 or 2 events is their choice, not because swimming allows more."
Not really Mido_9. I've never head of the Javelin 4xMedly of the 200m and 100m shotput
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@17:
if phelps should only get credit for 25% of his 3 relay swims, should steve redgrave then only get credit for 25% of his two fours golds and 50% of his three pairs golds?
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30
My point is that if Phelps can win at different strokes and at different distances, why don’t other athletes do it? Yes you see 100m and 200m athletes compete in both but there is no reason someone cant also be good at long jump, or distances with hurdles. I am just saying that using the fact its swimming is not a reason to say his medals are not worth as much. Part of his greatness is the fact that his schedule is ridiculous and he still wins it
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Not really Mido_9. I've never head of the Javelin 4xMedly of the 200m and 100m shotput
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i hope you are not ignorant enough to suggest that swimming is all the same no matter distance or stroke
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I don't really consider swimming a sport full stop!
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The number of events swimmers compete in should not be compared to other sports, especially rowing.
The recovery times are much quicker in swimming, down to the pure physics of it. Humans being buoyant, meaning even large swimmers are moving far less weight around the distances. Also water produces far less impact on joints and muscles. Swimming strokes are by nature fluid in motion, even the butterfly to a lesser extent.
The fact that Phelps has been so dominant in 2 Olympics means he is definitely up there as one of the greatest. Whether he wins 2, 3 or 100 gold medals is irrelevant.
Redgrave competed in an endurance sport for 5 Olympics and received the appropriate and proper plaudits for doing so.
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If Phelps was British everyone on here would be saying he ranks somewhere between Jesus and God
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I don't understand a lot of the arguments on here, I'm not even a swimming fan but by watching the coverage and reading articles I've learned a lot - enough to know a lot of what is being talked on here is nonsense.
Firstly there's the issue of the new suits. There have been lots of articles about their advantages, this is unquestionable as far as I'm concerned. BUT this is not why Phelps is swimming so fast - as has been pointed out he rarely wears them (only in the butterfly I think?).
Secondly, the issue of so many records being broken. From what I've heard and read this is because swimmers, unlike a lot of other sports, build up to the Olympics and prepare to compete at their peak for 2 weeks. They're not out competing week after week, hence world records are pretty much ONLY ever broken at major meets like the Olympics, World Championships etc. Thus World Records stand for a longer time before they are broken.
Think about it logically, you don't compete for weeks and months, train, train, train and look to peak at an event. If all swimmers are doing this then more World Records will go at that event. Makes sense to me. I think if you look back to Athens, the previous Swimming World Championships, old Olympics then you'll see a LOT of world records being broken then as well.
Someone mentioned the pool the Chinese have developed - i.e. 3m depth and outside lane. It is generally agreed from what I've read that these would shave tenths of a second off times here and there not the margins which Phelps and other swimmers are breaking World Records.
Aside from the nonsense about the Chinese designing shorter pools, once again this thread really comes down to the 'Greatest Olympian' discussion.
If he wins 8 Golds, then he's definitely up there, if not the greatest for me.
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lears78,
how can you possibly state that you dont consider swimming a sport? no wait, dont answer that because i will assume you mean that swimming is something you just do down the beach, or to keep healthy. In which case, running isn't a sport (which puts athletics out of the olympics) hmmm.
To weigh in on the phelps debate; I consider the greatest sportmen/women people like Ali, Michael Jordan, Schumacher, Tiger Woods, Pete Sampras - all unbeatable people. Phelps IS unbeatable! If the swimming lasted the whole length of the Games Phelps would be claiming many more gold medals i can assure you. He is the fastest swimmer on this planet at any distance, 400, 200,100, 50, probably even 1500 if he trained for it!
Agreed there are many more events that Phelps can enter into than perhaps in track and field but it takes something extraordinary for someone to be so brilliant at EVERY swim stroke, it really does!
If Phelps continues to swim like this at 2012 and 2016, then there cannot be any doubt he would be the greatest of the greatest.
Maybe now, swimming might get a little more credit for the amount of dedication it requires to compete...Phelps deserves it!
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some very good posts on here, balancing out the ... well you know. The "greatest" debate will never be conclusive because its people's opinions and there might be more than number of medals for criteria. can only agree to disagree
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The sports venues (pool included) wil have been checked several times during their construction by the builders themselves, the specialist pool/track contractor constructing the pool/track itself and also surveyors using laser measurement tools accurate to 1mm over those sort of distances.
The pool/track will have had an inspection and independent measurement by the sports governing body before the first international event, usually again before the Olympic preparation event, which is often the World Championship or equivalent. The IOC will also perform these inspections/measurements during their inspection of facilities and venues.
Some governing bodies will also require measurement of the venue where a world record is claimed.
However, there have been instances where the pool/track has been incorrectly marked or measured, but you are generally looking at perhaps 50 years ago or more. Most facilities were generally built for leisure purposes by local government and the governing bodies were really run by amateurs in their spare time.
So no, the pool is not short.
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spot on kingtheseus. Put walking in that basket to
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After reading everyones comments about how "swimming is un-fair because there are so many events"
"the distances are short so phelps can't be the greatest olympian"
"the strokes are so similar, its easy to win that many events"
I can't stand reading it anymore without correcting such nonsence!
Whilst there are many events in swimming, every swimmer has their "best stroke". Phelps is up against other swimmers who have spent their lives training for that one special event that they are best at, and to be able to beat these other swimmers who train specifically for these events is amazing.
The strokes are not similar at all! Fly is an absoloute killer and just because swimmers make it look so easy doesn't mean it is, I emplore anyone who agree's with the "strokes are all the same" comment, to go down to a pool and try and swim fly. To be the best in the world at 3 of the 4 strokes is an achievement in its self.
Distance - This is what has angered me the most, Phelps this week will swim 37 MILES!!! in heats, semi's final's warm up and warm downs. He trains 5 hours a day when his coaches sometimes require him to swim 20,000m in a single session!! He once went 5 years without taking a day off from his swimming. To say that marathon runners deserve their medals more than he because its further, or harder is ridiculous and really shows how ignorant the public can be!
I'm a swimmer myself and compete at national level, so I can confidently say that I KNOW for a fact that what Phelps has acomplished is outstanding, and is a once in a lifetime thing. There will never be another Michael Phelps, he was literally BORN to do this. Why can't people just accept the fact that we are watching history and be happy about it! I bet if he was a British swimmer no one would be complaining.
And for the people commenting on the fact that to be the greatest olympian you have to go for "20 years" ala steve redgrave...
Michael Phelps competed in sydney at the age of 15 and came 5th in the 200m butterfly final, that same year he set a WR in that event, becoming the first ever person to go sub 1min 55seconds. When he was 15 years and 9 months old. He has 46 career medals: 38 golds, 6 silvers and 2 bronze. And he's only 23!
He's said that he's not going to continue swimming beyond 30. Which means if he sticks by his decision 2012 will be his last olympics and I have no doubt that he will still be setting world record there...thats 12 years. Bear in mind this is swimming, not rowing, with redgrave he had team mates to help him.
Most of Michael's golds have been won entirely on his own. I just don't understand the lack of support for great olympians in this country, this is the reason we don't do aswell as others in sports such as swimming. We have the talent, but no one to coach it out of us. It saddens me.
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phelps is a great athlete
he may be able to compete in more events than say a high jumper but for each event he competes in their are people who will have trained specifically for that event all year to peak for that final.
whereas phelps has had to train 4 diffrent strokes and several distances and to mantain his peak performance for longer (sometimes with little recovery time between events or even before his finals)
swimming is not a sport- ok then most events at the olympics arent a sport such as archery athletics, sailing, cycling, judo, gymnastics etc
jesse owens was able to win in 4 unique events and carl lewis
heck decathletes and heptahletes (spelling very bad) can compete to a high level in a range of events
and there were track athletes that competed in several events
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Those complaining about the suits - if everyone's got them then what is the issue. Technology will always play a part in sports. It's no different from sprinters wearing spikes - in theory they should be made to run in bare feet right? Phelps has now won 12 gold medals over the last two olympics. If he wins 2 more here in Beijing and say (realistically) 4 more in London that will give him 18 golds. That will make him the greatest ever. Easily.
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he is a kid with an extraordinary competitive spirit and unmatched tools with which to execute. in that, he's the same as a plethora other olympians. they're there to win and put some fire in eachothers' pants, right?
he's young, he loves the chase and is JUST built to come out on top. didn't you guys go to school with anyone like that? it's the same thing, just on a level where he happens to be beating all the other kids in the world like him. i don't think those are grounds to illegitimize his being called 'the greatest olympian ever.' he's doing exactly what has always been done. medicine and diets and knowledge about our bodies and health and even SPEEDO technology is evolving, thus any competitive arena will evolve accordingly.
on the OTHER hand, the ideals of diversity instilled even into the pantheon of events represented and the colors of the rings themselves should nullify a solitary 'greatest' figure.
but for the sake of argument, in a vacuum absent of consideration for political climate and other earthly white noise, he is undoubtedly the winningest (maybe not the most diverse) and greatest of this generation of olympians.
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Phelps greatest Olympian ever?! - Don't make me laugh!
I can't believe all the different events/strokes/distances/relays in swimming - it is a joke!
You don't have hopping events in athletics or running backwards. Why don't they just have one stroke and swim to the other side as quick as possible. All these medleys - what a complete load of rubbish.
You shouldn't be able to win 8 gold medals at 1 olympics - you shouldn't physically be able to compete in 8 events. It just shows the poor standard in swimming.
If you win an olympic title in a running event , you can safely say you're the best in the world. But how many people have had the opportunity to swim competitively???
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I Have Created An Account, For The BBC, Because, I Find It Incredibly Hard Not To Comment On This Matter,
Firstly, This Talk Of Phelps Being The Greatest Olympician Is Plausible, But Not Justifible. He Is Statistically The Greatest, However, The Amount Of Events He Competes In, Is Overall The Reason For This Talk Of Greatest Olympician Ever. If There Was A Limit On What Events You Could Do, Such As A Competitor Could Only Do Three Events Then, This Discussion Would Not Be Happening.
Secondly, Athletes, Such As Sprinters Cannot Compete In Other Events Bar The One They Are Trained To Compete In. You Cannot Expect A 100m Sprinter To Run A 1500m, And Have A Chance Of Winning, As They Won't Have The Stamina Or Endurance, That Is Acheived Through Traning.
You Could Say The Above Point Could Be Used Against, As Phelps Does Different "Strokes" And Has To Train For Each Of Them, But For Each Event It Is The Same Group Of Muscles Being Used And As A Result The Same Body Type Is Needed,
For Instance, Long Distance Runners Are Wiry And Thin, While Sprinters Are Bulked But Streamlined, These Are Two Different Body Types, And Hence Sprinters Would Not Be As Effective As Long Distance Runners, And Vice Versa.
Overall, Thou What Phelsp Has Achieved Is Remarkable, But To Be Tagged Greatest Olympian Ever, Is Over The Top And De-Meaning To The Other Greater Athletes Who Strive To Achieve The Best In Their Event, Albeit, If It Only Be A Single Event.
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Whilst there are many events in swimming, every swimmer has their "best stroke". Phelps is up against other swimmers who have spent their lives training for that one special event that they are best at, and to be able to beat these other swimmers who train specifically for these events is amazing.
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To (roughly) quote Carl Lewis "If there were medals for running sideways and backwards I'd have as many medals as Spitz"
If a female rower won every rowing event she'd only have 7 medals.
For a track athlete to win 8 they'd have to win the 100m (+relay+hurdles), 200m, 400m (+ relay+hurdles), and 800m.
The other thing to consider is that while the strokes may be different, the muscle groups and body shapes for all are largely the same. Whereas the difference between for example a 100m sprinter and an 800m runner's ideal build is extreme in terms of muscle carried etc.
Phelps is probably going to be the greatest swimmer ever,
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but not the greatest olympian imho.
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Sorry but I can't hold my tongue anymore. The ignorance towards swimming is beyond belief. Phelps will have to cure cancer before some people here give him the credit. If he was British he'd be the greatest thing since sliced bread.
andimc: A joke that there are different events??Every sport has different events. Skiing has slalom, giant slalom, super G, downhill and the combined event. Look at the shooting events in Beijing and you will see rifle and pistol events at various distances 10m, 25m and 50m along with trap and skeet events.
Each event is very specialised in those sports but there is nothing to stop a competitor from competing in and winning them all. Phelps has to spread his training across all 4 strokes and distances from 100m to 400m and therefore has less time to dedicate himself to each event. THAT'S why his achievements are so remarkable.
Kitajima specialises in the breaststroke, Piersol is strictly a backstroker. They can concentrate all their efforts into just one stroke and two events at 100 and 200m. Phelps is truly world class at 3 strokes and the medley over 100, 200 and 400m.
Of the individual events he is not competing in, he's the 3rd fastest ever at 100 free and 200 back and the fifth fastest ever at 100 back without really taking the time to train for them properly. When you look at his 200 free and 400 medley times there is no doubt he would dominate the 400 free as well if there were 36 hours per day and 10 days per week.
Winning the medley events in swimming is the equivalent of the decathlon in that you have to be a great all-rounder. Phelps has now won both medley events in two Olympics. Only ONE other swimmer in history has done the 'double-double' - Tamas Darnyi - and he never competed in the individual events let alone dominate them.
What Phelps is doing is the equivalent of winning the decathlon then going out and winning some of the individual events. It would be like Daley Thompson also winning the long jump - then doing it again 4 years later.
How is the standard in swimming poor? So far 10 countries have won gold and 17 have won medals - from every continent on this planet. Swimmers from Brazil, Slovenia, Zimbabwe and Korea have all been on the medal rostrum. Its a world sport and hugely demanding and competitive.
Ian Thorpe, who many believed to the best swimmer ever until Phelps arrived, said breaking Spitz's record of 7 Olympic golds was 'impossible'.
As great a swimmer Thorpe was strictly a freestyler. He tried backstroke and medley but wasn't that good. Thorpedo was Olympic champion 5 times - 3 in individual events and 2 relays over 2 Olympics.
Phelps has 12 Olympic gold and counting - 8 of them individual - and he still has London 2012 to come too.
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There will never be a consensus 'Greatest Olympian' ever.
The only thing we can do is put Redgrave, Owens, Nuurmi, Blankers-Koen, Spitz, Lewis, Phelps and a few others like Aladar Gerevich (7 gold from 1932-60) and Birgit Fischer-Schmidt (won gold in each of 6 Games from 1980-2004) in a class by themselves.
Greatest Games Ever: If Phelps gets 8 then yes you can say he had the greatest performance ever at one Games. Spitz, Lewis and Owens are the best 'Games performances' we have seen so far.
Greatest Individual Moment: Comeneci getting the first perfect 10, Bob Beamon's long jump and Michael Johnson's 19.32 for me are the best 'one-off individual performances'.
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#50 - agree, with your analysis in general and I think it's a remarkable achievement (although it is true a 100m runner will never win 8 golds in one games), but don't really think the Zimbabwe comment is that relevant - Kirsty Coventry is a product of the US college system, and sounds like it.
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Just two things to say:
Mark Spitz wore speedos and he's in a class of his own. We are grateful for Phelps not opting for the sexless full body armour, but this is in a different category of enjoyment from Munich.
The way swimming events are organised by the IOC, the athletes are prompted to go for multiple medals. It's as if track and field athletes were running the same distances in several different types of footwear and getting medals for it.
Great for Phelps and I am not protesting against his metal haul. But let's just keep things in perspective.
Karl
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And I have to say, I would have admired Phelps' achievement a lot more if some silly journo had not prompted these "greatest ever Olympic athlete" headlines. It's offensive to athletes past and in the end diminish Phelps' own achievement. Easy journalism desperate for hype.
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this is to the person who put swimming is not a sport. I would like to see u try to swim just 100m as it wud b alot hard than just some one running up a track and also swimming is probly one of the hardest sports to do.
Also to the perosn who put a distance runner is more of a sportsman or w/e u put, iv take it u have never swam a 1500, idiot
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No doubt at all that Coventry has been nurtured in the NCAA but she's still a born and bred Zimbabwean who has gone to the USA to maximise her potential. Her parents still live under Mugabe's regime.
The same can be said for track stars Frankie Fredericks of Namibia and Maria Mutola of Mozambique leaving home for the NCAA.
So far at these Games I have seen Germany with a Syrian swimmer and a Mongolian shooter. On the flipside Togo had a French canoeist while all the Qatar runners are Kenyan. At least Coventry is representing her country.
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Michael Phelps is the greatest olympian of all time in history. I've never seen such power and endurance to take 7 world records and 7 golds since Mark Spitz. The guy has worked hard for it and he deserves the credit for it. Some say it's boring but, hang on a minute he was just enjoying the best moment of his life. In the end of the day they are all athletes in their own rights and the level of sport that they are in are nothing to compare with the other as the training are all different.
Let's just accept the fact that this guy has made history! End of story!
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This debate is quite something! It's purely a semantics argument really. Keep in mind, however, that Michael is not claiming any titles of greatness for himself. All of these accolades have been stirred up by the media. It's not his fault journalists are using up every superlative in the dictionary. He hinted before the Games that his goal was to surpass Spitz - a fellow swimmer. It's a reasonable goal for someone with Michael's ability, and one he's been steadily training for since he was around 15 years old.
Any debate over whether or not he's the "greatest Olympian" is interesting I suppose, but from those who vociferously disagree the comments seem to veer into something resembling disrespect.
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Well he's now matched Spitz with 7 golds. Phelps with 5 individual golds has actually gone one better than Spitz who won 4 individual events in 1972.
No matter what happens in the medley relay, Phelps' performance is even greater than Spitz with that extra individual gold imo.
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The way Michael Phelps won his 7th Gold should tilt the balance decicively in his favour as to why he should be regarded as the all time great. He has excelled in different styles of swimming-a rare ability. In 100 M fly,coming from behind, overtook fly specialist Serbia's Milorad Cavic just by 1/100th of a second with a burst of energy in the last few seconds.
Winning Olympic Gold in any discipline is great. Winning it with an Olympic record is a greater fiat. Creating a world record on the way is ultimate!. Michael Phelps has done this many times over. Six world records and one Olympic record!. Truly amazing!.
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unitedrickyzz:
I can and could swim 100m, any stroke you like. Likewise I can and could run 100m. I'm not claiming I could do it as quickly as these guys, but I could go to the beach right now and run 100m and then cool off with a 100m swim!
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Hey Steve!
Great to see you doing well and awesome to see the video of you confused for Phelps. Made my day to tell Welsh flatmates that I had raced you when we saw your bronze from Athens. You've been great for covering swimming and was glad to see you get that success. Keep it up and hopefully you're staying out of Tallahassee now.
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