- 22 Aug 08, 08:05 PM
Olympic Sports Centre Stadium, Beijing
How do you know you're a good modern pentathlete unless you get the chance to try it?
Be honest, how many of you have tried all five sports - shooting, fencing, swimming, riding and running - even once?
I've never fenced (although there were those accusations about Gary Mahoney's skateboard at school which were never proved as I had no idea it was his when I sold it) and I only tried shooting for the first time on my stag do (I was dressed as Borat at the time and not at my best). I have also only ever been pony trekking twice - the last time being about 25 years ago.
I only mention this because I've just been to the women's modern pentathlon and I can't help wondering if all Olympic gold medals really are equal.
Now before I'm swamped with angry protests from modern pentathletes (a worrying thought as you have all been trained to be perfect 19th century officers), let me first say I really enjoyed the event, particularly the final run.
In case the rest of you haven't seen it - and if you like the eliminator in Gladiators you'll love this - the runners set off in order of their ranking after the four events. All the points they have earned so far equate to a head start they get on the person behind.
The race is three 1,000m laps, which inevitably leads to excitement, as it is far easier to chase than it is to lead.
Going into the women's race on Friday, Lena Schoneborn had earned a 19-second advantage over Britain's Heather Fell. Swiss Belinda Schreiber was next to go, another 12 seconds back, but the one they were all concerned about was the speedy Victoria Tereshuk of Ukraine in sixth place. Team GB's second competitor, Katy Livingston, was a minute back in ninth.
The 25-year-old Fell took two seconds off the German leader on the first lap and six more on the second. She was now just 11 seconds behind and a storming finish seemed possible. But Schoneborn dug in and crossed the line still nine seconds clear. Tereshuk, meanwhile, had run herself into the bronze medal position. Livingston, who shot and fenced poorly, ran well to come home seventh.
The staggered starts and first-through-the-tape finish are a great idea and I wonder if it could be introduced to the decathlon and heptathlon too, but I digress.
So I did enjoy the event. I also do not doubt the hard work or physical prowess of the competitors.
Of the disciplines I know, I was impressed. The quickest runner clocked a fine 10:04 for 3,000m, and the top swimmer recorded an impressive 2:09 for the 200m freestyle.
I don't know anything about shooting but what I saw of the 10m air pistol event looked thoroughly professional. As did the epee fencing, which again is a nice format - all the competitors face each other once; the first to score wins.
And the show jumping section is blooper film gold. The competitors are allocated a horse 20 minutes before the start. This introduces an element of fortune into the event but was intended to replicate what might happen if that 19th century officer was ever caught behind enemy lines.
The men's event on Thursday took part after a storm of almost Biblical proportions. This made conditions very difficult, particularly on a new horse. Carnage ensued to the degree that it looked as though these guys were trying show jumping for the first time too.
So far, all good. But I come back to that first question. How, unless you have tried all this stuff before, would you know you had it in you to be an Olympic champion modern pentathlete?
Back in the day, when modern Olympic Games founder Baron Pierre de Coubertin (above) was formulating his view that France's defeat in the Franco-Prussian War was a result of not enough British public school-type sport, this was not such a problem. There were, after all, lots of army officers who shot, fenced, swam, rode and ran.
One such officer took part in the first modern pentathlon in 1912. An American, he came fifth in controversial fashion when he was marked down for his shooting. The judges claimed he missed the target with one shot but he was adamant he had put one bullet through another bullet hole. He might have been right as his other shots were excellently grouped. His name was George S. Patton. The "General" would come later.
In fact, another early name for the sport was the military pentathlon, which in many ways was a far more accurate description. It was invented purely for the Olympics by Coubertin to reprise the pentathlon that was at the heart of the Ancient Games. That event, Aristotle's favourite, was also based on the things a soldier should be good at - running, wrestling, long jump, throwing the javelin and throwing the discus.
The military connection with the sport would continue right until very recent years, during which time the event was dominated by officer-types from Soviet Bloc countries.
Threatened with its marching orders throughout the 1970s and 80s, the sport took action to broaden its appeal and fit more neatly into the Olympic schedule. The five-day slog (which at that time featured guns, duelling swords and a cross-country steeplechase) was reduced to a one-day format, and a women's event was added in 2000 (an event Great Britain has never failed to win a medal in).
Other, more recent concessions to modernity include using a portentous "one minute to the start of the run" countdown voice (that sounded a lot like Richard E. Grant) and setting the entire final run to a pounding dance beat.
The sport's governing body also fought a dogged PR campaign that played heavily on modern pentathlon's links with Coubertin and the fact it was cheap as it used venues already built for other sports.
All of which is true but it doesn't necessarily make it accessible to the vast majority of people in even rich nations, or particularly relevant as a multi-discipline event to the 21st century. What were once the requisite skills for a good soldier now seem more like the opportunities available to a sporty kid from a wealthy family. Who, apart from a few fortunate youngsters, ever really gets the chance to combine these now very arbitrary skills?
Now I don't want to rain on anybody's parade, particularly as Schoneborn, Fell and Tereshuk were so nice to each other in the press conference after the medal ceremony. Their success here was clearly a fitting reward for lots of effort and personal sacrifices. I am genuinely pleased for all of them.
But in a week when we've also seen the hugely successful introduction of two new sports to the Olympics schedule (open water swimming and BMX), it might be worth asking if the (not very) modern pentathlon is still worth its place in today's Games.
Might it be time to think of a more up-to-date test of control, skill, speed, adaptability and endurance? Any ideas?
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My suggestion is a combination of kayaking, tennis, javelin, kickboxing and dog-sledding. In the first four events, you get an implement (kayak paddle, tennis racket, javelin, and foot) with which you attempt to make contact with a BBC journalist's backside, in an attempt to get him to promise to stop writing inane class war drivel. You get a point for each successful contact. In the final event , the BBC man is released ahead of the competitors on dog sleds, the points leader getting a start based on how many points he or she is ahead, and so on down the field. The dogsleds start the chase and the gold medal goes to the competitor whose dogs catch the BBC man and feast on his goolies.
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Funny comment but inane class war drivel. Are you wearing a tweed suit and sitting by a fireplace with a pipe? Or has Thatcher recently got into blogging.
Many sports at the Olympics need to be reconsidered but then again some sports simply do not work at the Olympics. Is there any point in having the greatest team sport of them all (football). At the Olympics it is reduced to a sideshow for underage players (men) and a re-run of the world cup (women).
Should sports with judges be allowed as well?
Ive enjoyed the Olypics this year but is that simply because we've done well?
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If they removed the Show Jumping and replaced it with Cycling the Pentathlon would lose its random element and i think this would be a good change to the sport. Might even help the Brits a bit too...
Regards,
Eduin
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i haven't really grasped the concept of bmx racing being an olympic sport but since we're allowing it i suppose a true modern pentathlon could include bmx racing, ultimate frisbee, paintball, wakeboarding and free running.
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Modern pentathlon is a good olympic sport.
For me, it is what it is all about. I don't care about how much money they may have spent getting there, or whether they came from a good background
These were excellently skilled at what they do. Olympics is a world-wide occasion that rewards self sacrifice and hard work.
It is the likes of Football that don't belong
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As I understand it (and I served in REME at the time when the corps produced the British, World and Olympic team champions) the event tested the skills required of the King's Messengers (presumably Queen's dittos nowadays) an elite service of high speed confidential couriers. The service was created by Charles I, who produced the original silver greyhound bdges by breaking them from he edges of an ornamented silver salver (or so the story goes).
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I thoroughly enjoyed watching this event, and for me, it embodied most of the fundamental elements of the games: effort, honour, etiquette, and an opportunity to showcase some of the lesser well known sports of the world.
I agree entirely about the football; I still wander what qualifies a sport for inclusion in the games… From my point of view there are many that do not appear to embody this Olympic spirit, and many that do but are not included.
For example, can anyone tell me why squash is not included in the Olympic schedule, even for 2012…?! From my point of view this is a perfect Olympic event: popular around the world but not mainstream, physically challenging, requires a high degree of skill, has a good reputation for sportsmanship and etiquette, and is easily watchable.
Why is it then that modern pentathlon is included in the games and squash is not?
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"Who, apart from a few fortunate youngsters, ever really gets the chance to combine these now very arbitrary skills?"
But you could say the same about access to rowing and sailing. Most British modern pentathletes compete through university clubs, which mitigates some of the class elements.
Why drop it? One of the things that makes the Olympics special is that rewards people who compete out of the spotlight for 3.75 years out of four. There are ways that it shouldn't strive for relevance, and this is one of them.
I agree about squash, though. It was shortlisted for 2012, as a potential replacement for softball or baseball, but failed the two-thirds vote along with karate and rugby sevens. (It takes a bare majority to stay on the calendar, and two-thirds to get on.) Two nagging problems: 1. it's considered difficult to stage and broadcast; 2. the Americans don't play it, preferring racquetball.
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My suggestion is mud wrestling, ping pong, mobile phone throwing, British bulldogs and tiddly winks.
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Modern Pentathlon is one of the most demanding disciplines in the Olympics - like any multi-event such as triathlon, decathlon or heptathlon you have to master different disciplines but for me the modern Pentathlon is unique for it tests more than just your physical ability like the other multi-events.
Regardless of the 'modernity' of the disciplines it is a huge task to be a master of your nerves for the shoot, your reflexes and fighting skills for the fence, the very different physical tests of running and swimming (just see the running split for Qian Zhenhua who threw away his gold medal chance) and the lottery of riding a lot-assigned horse. I can't think of any other Olympic event that tests athletes in such a diverse way and I think it should be celebrated - not only for the skill but for the
spectacle, the modern pentathlon is the best thing I've seen this Olympics!
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How about a Pentathlon based on the day of a London mum.
1) Tossing the toast
2) School run stock car racing
3)Dressing up a penguin to gather water in a bucket on a revolving platform
4) Loudest scream at the kid competition
5) Synchronised telly channel hopping
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I don't have much to add to the debate. Personally I enjoy the diversity and range of talents required to compete in this event.
Anyway, on to the reason I'm posting. Leobird asks 'should sports with judges be allowed as well? [...] Ive [sic] enjoyed the Olypics this year but is that simply because we've done well?'
Is this a serious post? Is this poster really questioning whether sports such as gymnastics and diving should be events in the Olympic games? Of course they should, a sport should not be barred from the Games simply because it requires judges to determine the outcome.
As for the second question: none of us on here can answer why you have enjoyed the 2008 Olympic Games.
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I'm not sure I fully understand why you're saying this. If you applied your logic to all the other Olympic events, how many would be left after the cull? For a start you could kiss goodbye to all the sailing events - they're only for people with a certain amount of geographic luck (raised near the coast) and enough money to be able to buy/rent a boat/yacht/whatever to be able to learn the ropes to race it.
What about pole vault? How do we ever get the chance to try that? Certainly not at school and if you did want to try, you'd have to fork out over the odds to join an athletics team in the vague hope that when you try it you might find yourself talented at it. The same can also apply to the hammer throw - I tried even discus at school (I went to a pretty dodgy comprehensive as well) but the hammer was not even a pipe dream for any of my school mates.
Surely the 3 day eventing should be struck off the list - far too expensive and "elitist" (I don't like that word, just using it for want of a better one) for most of us.
One final point to add; you mention that the winner of the Modern Pentathlon would make a very fine 19th century officer but neglect to state that a whole raft of other Olympic events are based on 19th century, or even older, warfare. Archery, discus, hammer throw, javelin, shooting (all versions) - not to mention the hurdles and many other of the track and field events. They all derive from the same requirement to provide soldiers with the ability to be successful on the battle field.
To apply your standards to this one event seems myopic in the extreme. You appear to have given zero thought to your argument and written whatever has popped into your mind. Poor, very poor.
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I totally enjoy the modern pentathlon, though yes, it should be called Dead Old Fashioned Pentathlon. I first watched it in the Athens Olympics when we were having the worst British summer ever (until 2008 that is) and was on teacher's long school holidays. The best element is the show jumping - watching those fences flying everywhere is just hilarious. But I'm not being mean, or flippant - I think it's a great event. Leave it alone!
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Well if the Olympics are to be based on "things a soldiers should be good at" then a modern Pentathlon and modern Olympics should no doubt reflect that. Unfortunately, it probably does. The Olympics are nothing if not a celebration of crude nationism with an almost bellicose edge to them. A modern pentathlon would probably consist of firing chemical weapons, dropping cluster bombs, manuevering attack helicopters, torturing prisoners and destroying civilian infrastructure. Ameica would be a shoo-in for the gold and Israel would no doubt claim the silver but there still could be quite a bit of fierce competion (excuse the pun) for the bronze. On second thought, instead of eliminating indiviual priveleged events, why dont we just eliminate the whole martial spectacle called the Olympics. There's got to be a better way to sell advertising.
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In Modern Pentathlon you have to complete 5 events for just one gold. Are all gold medals equal? No, you have to work a lot harder in multi-events for just 1 medal!
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Nnyrad replies to leobold that sports should not be barred from the games simply because they require judges.
Whilst I agree that they should not be 'barred', it would be hard to argue that any sport that included individuals judgement to define the result was as definitive a statement about who was the BEST as in sports without this judgement, such as a straightforward race. When a race results in a photo finish, we do not get 5 people to say who they think was the quickest, and award the medal to the majority vote.
This of course includes diving, rhythmic gym, games with a referee (such as hockey), gymnastics, diving etc. Even events whereby officials have the right to remove a competitor based upon what they have seen (but not on video replays of what actually happened), such as the open water swimming, are open to this criticism.
We can only be 100% sure that the medal is awarded to the correct athlete if the result can be scrutinised against a set of rules, whereby all who examine the hard evidence must agree on not only the winner, but the full results.
If this were the case in gymnastics or diving for example, why do the judges all give marginally different scores? The top and bottom results are excluded, but this frustrates further - it acknowledges that the judges could be wrong, but assumes that they are all likely to be wrong by the same amount around a median result!
Again, I am not suggesting that the sports should be removed, or even that they are not worth medals. The athletes in the events are impressive, hard-working professionals. I just think that a medal in events that are defined by consensus over a set of rules and can scrutinised so that it is clear to anyone who the winner is give a better representation of who was actually the best performer. A medal won based upon peoples opinions should not be worthy of the same acclaim, especially when the opinions of the consummate professionals that award the scores can differ so much.
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Well as the modern pentathlon was intended to emulate the skills required by a nineteenth century military officer fighting and fleeing from an enemy, how about bringing it up to date by emulating the skills required by modern yoofs to fight and flee from the rozzers? We could keep the shooting, though maybe using Uzis or sawn-off shotguns instead of air-pistols, replace fencing with a knife-fight, running and swimming could stay though maybe competitors should have to carry an old-ladies handbag, and the riding should be replaced by a bike race, where all the bikes are initially chained to a lamp-post.
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It strikes me that the modern equivalent of modern pentathlon would be adventure racing - elements of orienteering, mountain biking, kayaking, rock climbing, swimming, and whatever else the organiser could throw in.
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it really is quite simple ...back to basics
no events which require judgement of standard should be allowed ...technical judges to decide if the rules have been broken ...perhaps
higher , stronger , faster ...sounds good to me
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the Modern Pent is a whole lot more justifiable than the licence fee poll tax that is levied on people on low pay at the same level as billionaires so that Matt Slater can write this piece of class bigoted faux provocative tripe.
Only in the crazy world of Hilary Clinton and the BBC is elitiism considered to be a bad thing - and bizarely by those who have had the greatest privilidge.
I went to a state school, polytechnic and air training corps. I was offered all the Modern Pent disciplines. Had I shown any ability, maybe I would have been willing to spend my paper round money on more horsey time. Instead, I play golf, which perhaps costs more. But I respect proper sport, like the modern pent more than my efforts to get round in sub 100
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For 2012, I'd suggest a pentathlon of traditional British events:
Gurning,
Gut-barging,
Shin-kicking,
Cheese-rolling,
and Synchronised Bog-snorkelling.
All shamefully neglected by the BBC.
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Hello all, thanks for reading and commenting. Some good stuff here, I'll try to deal with as much as poss.
BeebLeeMoore, very good, you made me laugh. But is it really "inane class war drivel" to point that there is an event in the Olympics today that very few people even in a G7 nation like ours can ever dream of taking part in? And it's not just (although it is clearly a factor) a class/wealth issue. It's a time/geography/opportunity issue too. What kind of person these days has access to show jumping, shooting and fencing? And where would they live? Fell, for example, was taught to shoot aged 8 by the mother of Sydney MP bronze medallist Kate Allenby. They're both from the same part of Devon. Don't you see how the potential talent pool for this sport is alarmingly low for it to qualify as an Olympic sport?
leobird et al, the whole judging sport issue is a thorny one and has been discussed on other blogs too. I'm inclined to agree with you but then I realise how many sports (that satisfy so many other Olympic criteria) we'd be losing. Judging is a part of most sports in one way or another so we just have to deal with that and try to minimise the downsides that come with using subjective measures.
Eduin, cycling instead of horses would make it a tad more accessible to all and reduce costs but I think we'd still be fiddling around with details as opposed to looking at the fundamental problem with the MP...it just isn't a particulary relevant combination of sports anymore. Compare the MP with triathlon, for example. The latter came out of the whole lifeguard/extreme sport scene in Oz and the US and grew organically and from the ground up. It's now growing rapidly around the world and the standard of the athletes involved at the top is phenomenal. It's done so well because it taps into modern concerns about health, fitness, transport etc and it is relatively accessible (the entry-level events really don't require any expensive kit at all). MP has been around far longer but has singularly failed to break out of its niche....largely because its disciplines aren't available to all.
I agree, however, with the comment you and others make about football. I love the sport but don't think it belongs in the Games, certainly not in its current format...an U21 tournament with no overage players, perhaps. Or why not a five-a-side/futsal tournament? Five-a-side is the fastest growing physical activity in the UK and is the only football that anybody plays here in China....it fits modern life, particularly in cities.
Researcher 194083....I didn't know that. Interesting if true. The 19th century officer story is the one the IOC and MP governing body go with, but yours sounds good to me too.
letsgetataco, I hear what you're saying about "Olympic values" etc but I have to say I'm getting a bit tired of all that after three weeks of it. Not because I don't think they're worth championing, it's just that there are so many patent compromises to them at the Games. It all gets a bit hypocritical if you start to think about them too long so I'm not sure any sport can justify its place in the schedule on any claim to such nebulous standards as "Olympic values". The MP federation, by the way, has tried the argument that the five sports reflect the five rings....oh dear.
But I wholeheartedly agree with you and others about squash. I wrote a few stories about this very issue a year or so ago and I cannot believe squash hasn't forced its way into the Games yet.
Nick Sweeney, yep, you're right there's clearly a postcode/life's lottery element to sailing (as the "where are our heroes from" map on the BBC News site shows) and rowing but the point here is that there is only one sport to try....ability would be fairly easy to spot. Ability in rowing, in fact, can be spotted without going anywhere near a lake. It's all about levers and lungs.
And finally to makaige. See my answer above re: sailing (I could also add there are sailing clubs in London that are open to all and relatively cheap....the Westminster Boating Base opposite Battersea Power Station and Surrey Docks Sailing Centre spring to ming).
As for pole vault and all the other events in the decathlon, I tried those at my fairly average comprehensive 20+ years ago and I know the same school (in E London) is still giving kids the chance to try these events. OK, perhaps I was lucky to have all this on offer but there are plenty of athletics clubs dotted all over the country (in my area alone there was one in Romford, Mile End and Brentwood) and I can think of plenty more in London.....and they're not expensive. Certainly not compared to a show jumping pony, an air pistol and fencing kit/lessons.
I also feel you've missed the point with the "military" element to my argument. Yes, of course many sports are based on soldier training methods from days gone by. After all, the modern Olympics are supposed to be a recreation of the Ancient Games and they were closely associated with military might. But it is not the disciplines themselves that is the issue....I'm not advocating the removal of shooting, fencing or even show-jumping from the Games, am I? I am saying this COMBINATION of events makes no sense today....unlike, for example, the decathlon, which is an amalgam of all the athletics events, or triathlon, which, as I have already pointed out, clearly chimes with people's sporting interests today.
As for your comment about MP medals being worth more than single event medals because they have to work five times harder, I can only assume you're joking. Because anything else would be "very myopic in the extreme" and suggest "zero thought" had gone into that statement. But I appreciate that it probably just "popped into your head", right?
I also went to a fairly normal comprehensive
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Modern Pentathlon is a fantastic sport and should stay as it is.
Thankfully drivel such as baseball is going (I love baseball but not at the Olympics) and football should be next or should be made into a 6 aside tournament to make it exciting.
I'd love to see squash, netball, rugby 7's, 20-20 cricket in addition to a few others.
They should also reduce the number of medals given in the swimming pool and bring in another 10+ sports.
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#1 Why slow down the dogs by attaching them to a sled?
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Sheila Taormina the American who just competed in the womens olympic pentathlon has competed now in 4 Olympics in 3 different sports (Swimming and 2 Triathlons).
Apparently she thought she could take up Pentathlon and easily make it. She is reported as saying that Pentathlon has actually been the toughest, most demanding of the sports she has done.
That is because of the demands of the physical element with the technical skills which need to be learned and honed.
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Now that I have that off my chest, a comment on the place of Modern pent in the olympics.
part of the charm of the Olympics is the history - including the bits that are made up. So the Marathon mimics the distance from the battlefield to report victory. The discus is an ancient Greek event. (The Eglish wanted the cricket ball throw but were overruled. Seriously.)
And Modern pent mimics (I believe) the skills needed to fight from behind enemy lines back to your unit, in that order. (shoot, once, out of bullets, fence, once forced to flee grab first available horse, once you reach a river, swim, then run back home.)
Utter tripe of course, but it was De Coubertin's show. I think keeping that link with the past has charm. It costs nothing to stage as the venues are all there. It uses only four gold medals (mens/womens ind/team). It involves no judging. It is the pinnacle of a modern pent athletes life.
What is there not to like? Leave it alone
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Hello Cllrsandy, so you're going down the class-war route as well, are you? Oh dear. That's depressingly British, isn't it?
OK, let's pretend for a minute that the five sports in the MP weren't relatively expensive things often associated with well-to-do people in the UK.
Let's pretend that the MP is made up of five other sports (not necessarily expensive or "elitist") that not many people play - for whatever reason - and certainly don't play in that particular combination.
The argument is exactly the same.
A combination of events that made sense to a 19th century Frenchman with a military fixation no longer makes sense to most people (not posh, not working-class...that really is irrelevant) today.
In fact, you could argue it hasn't made sense for decades, as it has singularly failed to take off as a sport and only hangs on due to its inclusion in the Olympic schedule.
This is a shocking indictment of a sport. If you can't use the platform an Olympics provides to expand your participation base/raise awareness then you are taking another more deserving sport's place.
As for your claim that this is about being against "elitism", erm, I'm at the Olympics, it's all about elitism here. The argument I am making is that MP, because of its inaccessibilty to most and irrelevance to modern life, is not elitist enough. I should perhaps have listed the average run and swim times above, not the quickest.
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CllrSandy, I'm glad you got that off your chest. I think you'll find that the details you list are all there in the article above.
And they only dish out two golds now, one for men, one for women. The team event was scrapped. I'm not sure where your other medal came from.
gbpent, you make a good point. I never said the event was easy. Taormina would make a good interview on the subject. I'll see what I can do.
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modern pentathlon is a great sport to have at an olympics it requires the most diverse range of skills and fitness. to argue as the author has that the disciplines are no longer relevant hoe relevant is the javelin to modern day society? dont see you argueing against the heptathlon. to argue about releavncy is just pointless as most of sports dont really have a relavency thats not whats sport is in general for. i would also question how deep an understanding you have of the sport and its component sports at lower levels. fencing is widely available to the average joe/jo. not evryone with a horse is loaded, yes it is largely people in the country that have horses and thus the best opportunity but where are the velodromes, in cities thus track cycling is equally inaccessable. rowing can only be done on big rivers and if you dont live near a boat club you dont row and if you dont live near the sea sailing is going to be rather expensive. Also anyone wishing to argue against the random side of the showjumping, if they used their own horses money would be more of an issue. also its no worse than sports that are judged. when you can fall off apparatus and not finish the routine and still get a score above 15 is ridiculous. or another example is heats in competitions under different weather conditions thats not equal. think some people mainly the author has to look deep down and decide whether or not his reasons for writing this arcticle are really that sensible or whether he has a problem with people on horses?
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If the criteria of only hanging on because of the olympics is used, then Britain would lose 12 of it's gold medals (7 Track Cycling, 4 Sailing, 1 Kayak) and arguably all of them - no one really cares about Rowing, Athletics, swimming or women's road cycling outside of these couple of weeks do they?
Of course, Tennis would survive quite nicely without the olympics, which a little earlier you were arguing was grounds for it's expulsion.
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Matt, I may not have read closely enough but don't your arguments suggest eventing should disappear first? Those in the 'class war' camp will argue they are just medals for the posh. How many girls dream of riding ponies v the number that actually get the chance?
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Wulfram you are talking rubbish. Just because a sport gets poor media coverage in the UK outside of the Olympics doesn't make it less valid. Track cycling and women's road cycling have World Cup events throughout the year and World Championships every year. Cycling is massively more popular in continental Europe than it is in the UK, and yet our riders have become the best in the world. You should be proud of them.
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Cycling's only hanging on? Hey? Cycling is booming as a sport, mode of transport, lifestyle choice, you name it....nowt wrong with cycling, wulfram.
And rowing and sailing fare much much better than modern pentathlon between Games too. Have you been to Cowes Week or Henley?? Yes, that's right, this class warrior has been to both and liked them....does that make lumpen proletariat or just a traitor? I can't remember, it's been a while since I've read any Marx.
Nobody really cares about swimming? Hmmm. Not sure about that one either, but I'll let it slide...how are you to know that it is enormous in countries outside the UK.
Not sure how any of this impacts on my view that Olympic singles tennis should be scrapped either, but no matter. Actually, on that subject, I have slightly shifted my view to accept that doubles just about works as an Olympic sport. I'd add a mixed doubles comp too, but scrap both singles events.
themightybuffalo, I'm not arguing the disciplines themselves are irrelevant, it's the arbitrary nature of their combination that bothers me. It's very simple, MP is not an accessible sport. Only the very privileged or lucky will ever get an opportunity to even see if they like this combination, let alone be any good at it. That, for me, is not a sound enough base to maintain Olympic status.
You pick out rowing but there are rowing machines in gyms up and down the country. You can try it, see if you're good at it and then look for options to pursue it further...which exist all over the country. There's a good rowing club in Tottenham near me. I went once, it was full of firemen, builders, policemen and other non-posh types.
And nearly everybody has access to a bike at some point in their lives. To suggest there is any comparison with getting into cycling and getting into MP is ridiculous. Chris Hoy got into track cycling through BMXing. And the likes of Boardman, Cavendish and Wiggins are hardly posh.
You're right to say the things athletes throw these days aren't "relevant", but athletics is an established sport, played around the globe and relative to MP, far more accessible. The implements they throw now are irrelevant. They could throw bags of fertiliser or mobile phones, it doesn't really matter. The point is that somebody with the strength and coordination to do it well will get the chance to do it without the barriers to entry issue that hinders MP's growth and popularity.
And to answer your final question. I have no problem with people on horses at all.
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I don't have much to add to the debate, but I am pleased to have had the opportunity to participate.
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Ignoring the class argument, which is questionable, I think Slater makes a good point - just how accessible are the pentathlon events to the average budding youth athlete?
If you base the possible sports on events that already exist within the Olympic programme, I think this could be a potential new programme:
Taekwondo - Graded by weight
Tennis - Single set showdowns
Swimming - 200m freestyle (retained)
Cycling - Individual Pursuit
Running - 3000m steeplechase
Obviously, the event would have to go beyond the 1 day event that it is now, but I think all the above events are more indicative of the modern Olympic Games, and all these events are accessible to most who wish to pursue a career in pentathlon.
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If it is about all 5, make them do it back to back, in one big go. Like a triathlon.
A modern post modern pentathlon would be
1. Cheese Burger eating
2. 10 pints
3. Collecting traffic cones
4. a fight
5. Finishing up down the home straight on the Wii with guitar hero.
Vomiting, or spilling your blood is complete disqualification.
Not as easy as you may think.
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rowing on erg and rowing in a boat are not the same thing. on an ergo(rowing machine) your on your own in a there can be up to 8 of you. having access to a rowing machine is not the same as having access to a rowing boat, a people to row with coaches etc. and track cycling and road cycling are not the same either lets be honest there are clear differences. to make a proper effort at doing it you need the money to travel to a velodrome as hoy did. if you havnt got enough money to travel the long distances you have to to get to one than your excluded are you not. if your going to use the arguement that you could come through frm various other disciplines as you have with Hoy, pretty much all brtish pentathletes have come through tetrathlon that is organised by the pony club. which gives people with horses the chance to compete regardless of whether thay live on a small farm or vast country estate or even if there only access to a horse is through a riding school. and fencing is far more accessable to the public than you seem willing to accept. your point about the combination seems rather pointless, its combined to see which athletes have the best set of skill levels and fitness alround. more than any other sport it requires a bigger variety of skills. to sugest other combined sports are beter because they involve differentr sets of athletics doesnt make it any more relevant they are all sports after all.
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water polo - oh please, get rid of it. They all look like the Dam Busters on ecstasy.
Football - got to go, it is just NOT WORKING, indeed, it is bringing down the whole Olympic movement.
Synchronized swimming is dancing on water, it is not working, get rid of it. It epitomizes the ridiculousness of how the Olympics is being showcased. otherwise have ballroom dancing.
Keep the Modern Pentathlon
4 x 200 - where is that?????
Triple jump and long jump combined - that way an athlete may just be able to get 8 gold like Phelps and bring the worlds greatest athlete back to the track where it belongs.
Gymnastics - surely it is not just about age, but needs a panel of doctors to say whether you are physically developed enough. It takes out the nonsense we have now.
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Matt wrote "Eduin, cycling instead of horses would make it a tad more accessible to all and reduce costs but I think we'd still be fiddling around with details as opposed to looking at the fundamental problem with the MP...it just isn't a particulary relevant combination of sports anymore."
Which I guess is where I fundamentally disagree.
The origin of the MP isn't as important as what it represents. Firstly it is the only purely Olympic sport - derived specifically for the games by its founder.
Secondly if you look at the sports on offer, it covers so much of the programme. Shooting covers the target sports of Archery and Shooting. Fencing covers all the Mano a Mano combat sports, Swimming and Running are faily obvious.
That's the vast majority of the Individual promramme right there
What's missing is something that covers the "grace" sports (Gymnastics, Synchro and Diving) and obviously Cycling. Personally the Equestrian events are the clearest need to be cut from the games as the reality is that the horse is by far the largest factor in the success or otherwise of the competitors.
As someone who fenced at School, maybe you could argue that this covers the "grace" aspect as well as the combat, so adding Cycling would make MP a complete "summary" of the games. Or even make it a 6-sport event by adding a Gymnastic Floor Routine alongside the "Cycling for Horses".
Regards,
Eduin
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Fencing with real swords. I'd watch that.
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"rowing on erg and rowing in a boat are not the same thing. on an ergo(rowing machine) your on your own in a there can be up to 8 of you. having access to a rowing machine is not the same as having access to a rowing boat, a people to row with coaches etc. and track cycling and road cycling are not the same either lets be honest there are clear differences. to make a proper effort at doing it you need the money to travel to a velodrome as hoy did."
I guess that rowers spending the vast majority of their training schedule on Rowing Machines is just a waste of time then...
Sorry bud but its the same thing. In fact Rowing Machine competitions exist and water Rowers win them.
And all those miles on the Road that track, BMX and MTB cyclist use in their training must be a complete waste too...
BTW, Hoy got started using a free council facility which was in his home town. I have no idea about his socio-economic background but there is nothing in cycling that requires you to come from a wealthy background.
Regards,
Eduin
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Are we in danage of looking at this issue from a purley British stand point. Some point which may appear "elitist" (for want of a better word) in the UK are not in others, horse riding for example.
If the IOC based their criteria for Olympic selection on the socio-economic situation of the sport in Britain then they may aswell totally get rid of the Winter Olympics!
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You seem to be arguing that MP should be excluded as it is inaccessible, arbitrary in nature and without sufficient interest or popularity to make it an Olympic sport.
First, I don't think the accessibility point really holds. As others have pointed out, sports such as pole vault and rowing lack ready accessibility, and your answer in response to this is that it is possible to follow these sports by joining local clubs. However, this is also true of fencing. I joined a local club for a month (I didn't get on with the sport), but it cost only a few quid more than the subs for my football team, and less than my gym membership.
Whilst there are very few opportunities for shooting in the UK, this is due to a combination of legal and social factors inherent to the UK, and isn't always true in other parts of the world. I have friends in both the US and France who regularly shoot, and they are in no sense from elite backgrounds, or have large amounts of disposable income.
I think the point about accessibility/elitism does apply to the showjumping aspect, but no more so than for any of the other equestrian sports, and so if you believe MP should be excluded on this basis, then for the same reason so should the other equestrian events. However, it is inconsistent to say that the other equestrian events are OK, but MP should go for this reason.
Secondly, the combination of sports may no longer be relevant, but virtually all sport is arbitrary in nature. As with most sports, MP is an arbitrary activity which has become a competitive sport for historical reasons. It's entirely arbitrary for two teams of eleven men to try and kick a ball into a net without using their hands, but this doesn't stop it being great sport. You seem to accept this, but differentiate other sports on the ground that they are established and played around the world. In other words, you are arguing that it is actually a question of popularity, which brings us on to the third point.
Modern pentathlon, to the best of my knowledge, is not a very popular sport. I certainly don't give it any thought other than when the Olympics come round. However, I’m not convinced that’s a good enough reason for kicking it out. Personally, I’d be happy for it to remain for the sake of tradition, it being the favourite event of the founder of the Olympic movement, and in any event, when I do watch it once every four years, I always find it entertaining. If you do believe it isn’t popular enough away from the Olympics (whether in terms of spectators or participants) to be an Olympic sport, then fair enough, but this seems to be the only consistent argument you have against it, and I would be interested to know how it stacks up against some of the other Olympic events, such as synchronised swimming and trampolineing.
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How about just do gameboy, wii, xbox, playstation and a classic arcade lottery. Or should we do an inner city version for London that more resembles Grand Theft Auto? See how easy it is to pander.
This is exactly what is wrong with the Olympics. Believe me, you should feel lucky not to have to "enjoy" thecoverage here in the US, which has elevated the ability to blur the line between news, war and sport.
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It's a bit off topic, and it doesn't really affect the point Eduin was making, but for the record rowing on a rowing machine and rowing on water aren't entirely the same. There's obviuosly similarities, but I had friends at the rowing club at uni - my ergo times were the second best in the club, but when I tried it on water my balance and corodination simply weren't good enough for me to be competitive.
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Eduin my point was that you could not become a world class rower using only an ergometer. you wouldnt know how to balance a boat how to pull the oar through the water or timing. it undoubtedly has a use for training fitness but you can never be a world class rower without a hours upon hours in a boat. yes rowers do win ergometer races. i rowed with a guy in school who has world records on thme but being able to bgo fast sitting on an ergometer didnt make him the world class rower he now is its a partnot all of it. as for cycling yes they train on the road but without a velodrome you could never become worldclass as a track cyclist. Hoy may have used a council funded route. is this option available to the vast tracts of rural britain or all the non major urban settlements i think you will find the answer is no.
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I propose the following team relay event where the baton is passed over at each change.
Sailing - Finn class followed by
Rowing - Men's four
Kayak - 1000 m Men followed by
Swimming: Men's Marathon 10km followed by
Cycling Track: Men's Individual Pursuit.
Seems a perfectly fair mix of events to me !
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So lets build on the triathlon, running, swimming and cycling, thats 3.
Then boxing instead of fencing.
And something to replace shooting...ah
Ten pin bowling.
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Big_Frankie_S, you make a good case and I'll try to answer your points in greater detail later (although I think I have already in earlier answers).
But to answer one of your points about the inconsistency of my position re: horse events in the Games, well, I've purposefully stayed away from that one for a couple of reasons:
1) I've haven't seen any equestrian (apart from the jumping in the MP) here so didn't feel qualified to make even a first impression-type comment on its suitability for the Games. All my blogs, whether you've liked them or not, have been based on things I've seen live.
2) I wanted this debate to be about MP, not equestrian.
That said, since you asked, I would remove equestrian from the Olympic programme now. Too expensive, too elitist, not participated in by enough countries at the top level, hard to accommodate in the schedule/host city and don't get me started on dressage.
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"i rowed with a guy in school who has world records on thme but being able to bgo fast sitting on an ergometer didnt make him the world class rower he now is its a partnot all of it."
Maybe I missed something but your original point was that using rowing machines or cycling on the road is not a viable path to becoming world class or at least to discovering a talent.
You've blown your own argument out the water - someone in your school used an Ergometer, discovered they were good, went on to become a world class rower.
Please step back and just concede. Rowing and Cycling is very, very accessible sports to the average individual in the UK.
Regards,
Eduin
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I thought you were in favour of retaining other equastrian sports as earlier on you stated that you weren't arguing for the removal of showjumping. If you believe that all equestrian sports should be removed, then yes your position is conistent, but I think it is a little uk-centric to argue that the inclusion of sports should be based on what is deemed accessible in the UK. Even if you decide to draw the line based on what might be deemed accessible to G7 nations and the like, there are a number of olympic sports a large proportion of the planet can't participate in, but I don't think that means they should be excluded from the olympics because of it.
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Modern Pentathlon is at the heart of the Olympics. It belongs in the Olympics both for its historically long held association and because it is a true test of a variety of sports all of which in their own right are contested as Olympic disciplines (pistol shooting, fencing, swimming, riding and running).
It is a great shame that in Beijing the riding phase of the men's competition produced a rather unedifying spectacle with many falls and stops. However to any horseman it was easy to see that this was in almost all cases down to the poor standard of riding by the competitors and not to lack of horse power. The horses were well up to the job. The coverage of this phase would have benefited from commentary from somebody with at least a passing knowledge of what they were looking at - something which Clare Balding can and should confirm.
Silver medallist Heather Fell hit the nail on the head when she said in Saturday’s post event interview that the men were hanging onto the reins and restricting their horses and encouraging them to stop. What horse appreciates being smacked in the teeth by an incompetent rider. There was no need to reduce the size of the fences for the women's competition. They knew how to ride and this was shown in their results. It is disingenuous to suggest that the lowering of the height of the fences produced better results. Heather Fell produced a lovely round on a horse written off by commentators from the day before as useless. Of the five events the riding is the most difficult to train for and the horse will find out the weaknesses of his rider in dramatic and transparent fashion.
It will be a tragedy if Modern Pentathlon should suffer as an Olympic sport because the competitors have allowed their standards in riding to drop to an unacceptable level, and the answer is not to reduce the standard of the riding but to ensure that competitors train to raise their game.
The BBC’s fantastic Olympic coverage fell far short of that expected in the commentary for the Modern Pentathlon show jumping. For the show jumping phase they need a commentator who knows their riding and who can provide educated and informative comments and at the same time remind viewers of the strengths and weaknesses of the competitor they are watching. Modern pentathletes with a background of running or swimming but little experience of riding will always be found wanting in this phase. That’s the beauty of Modern Pentathlon.
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Interesting article, It does seem a bit arcane doesn't it? Mind you, I don't agree having anything with horses should be an olympic event - don't get me wrong, I'm not an animal rights crackpot I'm just of the belief that the olympic's is about the fastest and strongest humans competing against one another.
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Big_Frankie_S, but I wasn't arguing for the exclusion of show jumping then, was I? I was talking specifically about MP. I didn't want to get sidetracked by any debate on the constituent parts of the MP, I was (as explained in my first answer to you) only hoping to talk about MP. But now, since you've asked specifically where I stand on the equestrian events, I've told you.
And your second point makes no sense re: MP. If the sport isn't accessible in the UK (a wealthy country with a record of success in the sport) where is it going to be accessible?
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I think the business about football is a peculiarly British thing. We seem to denigrate Olympic football simply because we don't participate in it. Considering the fact that it's the most popular team sport in the Olympics how on earth would you justify removing it?
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Apologies about the equestrianism, when you said "you weren't advocating the removal of showjumping from the games" I thought you meant that you beleived it should stay, not that you simply didn't want to talk about it.
I agree with you about the accesibility of equestrain sports, but my point is that it is simply not a good criterion to determine what should and shouldn't be in the olympics. If you say that only "accessible" sports should be in the games, then the question of what is accessible arises, as well as what isn't, and given worldwide differences I don't believe that can be objectively answered.
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All the sports in MP are accessible - just join a fencing club (check your nearest city), a rowing club (there are hundreds around), an athletics club, your nearest swimming pool or the local stable.
Any one of those sports is within reach of the 'man on the street'. Any one can be enjoyed, with decent facilities, without too much trouble if you want to give it a go. All of them have a decent talent pool.
The problem - I agree with Matt - is putting it all together. Who on earth has the time, let alone the money, to participate in all five? You can't watch MP on the TV and say, "I'm going to try that..." unlike Decathalon or Triathalon.
If you can't watch, be impressed, and try for yourself then I think there's a serious problem. Can you name *any other* Olympic sport where trying it yourself requires more than finding a local club and signing up?
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no Eduin, thats not entirely accurate is it
he chose to do rowing as a school sport ergometers are used as training but to be a rower you need a boat my arguement is you cannot be a rower without a boat. because you can afford to use a rowing machine doesnt mean you can afford to row. being able to use a rowing machine doesnt mean you can row. just beacuse there is a rowing machine in your local gym doesnt mean its a route to becoming a proffessional rower unless they can get to a boatclub they wont be able to be a top class rower. yes they are useful but dont even try and suggest that the huge 130kg pulling fast times in the gym only is a better rower than the smaller guys that can do it in a boat
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This is exactly the same conversation I was having last night.
After showing the highlights of the "modern" pentathlon, the BBC commentator said "Let's hope that inspires some of our youngsters for 2012.2 and I thought ... "What?"
In all seriousness, where is your average teenager going to practice show jumping or fencing. Even shooting might me a bit difficult if you're young, urban and non-white ...
A truly modern pentathlon should incorporate sports that are accessible to everyday people - cycling, running, swimming, throwing things. Look at the popularity of the triathlon!
Of course if this IS about class war, mabe we should have a chav pentathlon, with shoplifting, stealing car wheels, blocking the door with a pushchair, eating burgers and smoking as the five sports.
Murk
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sorry but pentathlon is a piece of nonsense
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Like post 11 I do the modern pentathlon daily (5 dys/wk)
1) Wake, dress and feed children
2) feed, shave, dress myself
3) Take children to school
4) Cycle to work
5) Shower, change into work clothes and sit at desk with smile on face!
PB 2hrs 2 minutes
Have gone quicker but arrived grumpy
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Well done Heather Fell on your silver medal, though if Matt Slater had his way you would never have been here to achieve your dream.
Once again we have a sport where Britain is quite good so sections of the British media have to pull it apart.
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Okay, I've read twenty or so posts, but have now given up and decided to just add a bit myself.
MP is not inaccessible. I have even decided to give it a go myself, and I do not live on a country estate. I'm even logging my progress on a blog.
I've never understood the 'inaccessible' argument anyway - I didn't realise that sport had to be free to be a challenge to human abilities. Given that argument, we'd better remove everything but the curling from the Winter Olympics...
Running and swimming are clearly accessible to all. That leaves the other three events.
The show jumping need not cost a lot. The beauty of MP show jumping is that you don't use your own horse - so you don't need one. Just going down to your local equestrian centre for coaching once a week is not that expensive.
Fencing. I'm planning to go on a beginners course at a local club. £25 for five lessons and all equipment is included. Many of the fencing companies offer starter sets of equipment too for minimal costs if you get into it. Even a full set of Olympic standard gear wouldn't cost as much as a competition track bike.
Shooting. Again, this is a cheap sport if you do it through a club. Most clubs will have equipment you can use whilst your training and learning under a coach. Even a top of the range target air pistol comes in at around £1000; again, considerably less than a top of the range track bike.
MP would only start getting expensive when you reach the very top - but then every sport does (and I apologise to cycling for picking on their bikes as a comparison).
MP is a fantastic sport, competing in so many diverse disciplines is quite a feat, and that is one of the things that attracted me to it - a good chance to try different things and not get bored with doing the same thing in training every other night...
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Matt_Slater wrote: 'Might it be time to think of a more up-to-date test of control, skill, speed, adaptability and endurance? Any ideas?'
Since you have concluded with this, I take it to be the question you were genuinely trying to raise, and the apex of your arguement.
The Pentathlon, as you outline, has been going for something like 100 years now. During that time the scoring system, rules, and regulations have been honed for balance and fairness. As it currently stands it is a competition weighted to ensure that it is all round performers most likely to excel, and not someone who happens to be th current world champion in just one of the events.
If you throw out half the events and replace them, it may well take years to recalibrate the pentathlon to reach a point where it is just as finely balanced for the new combination; after all, as you have pointed out, Mr. Slater, major competitions (from which results could be examined and adjustments to the scoring system made) only seem to come up every four years.
Eventually your new combination of events will have been adapted to, but by that point, future observers may well be complaining 'skateboarding is so late twentieth century' or 'now we use X-bikes, not those quaint old bicycles'.
Changing things could very well please an number of observers such as yourself, but by the time that those changes have been worked through, and the system fine-tuned to handle them, the next generation will be making exactly the same complaints about your selection.
If you leave the selection approximately as it currently is, you at least have a sense of tradition being maintained for those few athletes interested in competing in an event designed to challenge/test the entrants across a broad range of attributes/skills, allowing them to test themselves not just against each other but against the records of past pentathletes; change it and you set a precedent for it being changed every ten or twenty years to keep up with whatever current fashions in sports are, and just as the system is coming into balance, and athletes workig out how to optimise their training, it will be time for yet another combination.
Changing things because they are not up to date can invite an entirely different set of problems. (And I haven't even mentioned the possibilities of a 'split' where you will have some pentathletes playing in official events such as the Olympics, whilst others perhaps go for the 'traditional modern pentathlon' version in competitions funded by eccentrics.)
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There already is an alternative athletics pentathlon which involves the Shot Put, Long Jump, High Jump, a Hurdles and an 800m track race.
Alternatively you could add, say, a distance kayaking race and a real mountain bike course onto the triathlon events. Those guys would love that.
But the current modern pentathlon seems suited to keeping various army types occupied (gross stereotyping I know) so I don’t see the harm in including it. I also quite like the idea of having random chance play a part in the outcome.
I agree squash should be included in the Olympics. Baseball should remain. I’d like to see some rugby, even seven a side. As we have BMX why not add skateboarding too?
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Matt_Slater wrote: 'Might it be time to think of a more up-to-date test of control, skill, speed, adaptability and endurance? Any ideas?'
Since you have concluded with this, I take it to be the question you were most interested in, and the apex of your arguement.
The Pentathlon, as you outline, has been going for something like 100 years now. During that time the scoring system, rules, and regulations have been honed for balance and fairness. As it currently stands it is a competition weighted to ensure that it is all round performers most likely to excel, and not someone who happens to be the current world champion in just one of the events.
If you throw out half the events and replace them, it may well take years to recalibrate the pentathlon to reach a point where it is just as finely balanced for the new combination; after all, as you have pointed out, major competitions (from which results could be examined and adjustments to the scoring system made) only seem to come up every four years.
Eventually your new combination of events will have been adapted to, but by that point, future observers may well be complaining 'skateboarding is so late twentieth century' or 'now we use X-bikes, not those quaint old bicycles'.
Changing things might very well please a number of observers such as yourself, but by the time that those changes have been worked through, and the system fine-tuned to handle them, the next generation will be making exactly the same complaints about your selection.
If you leave the selection approximately as it currently is, you at least have a sense of tradition being maintained for those few athletes interested in competing in an event designed to challenge/test the entrants across a broad range of attributes/skills, allowing them to test themselves not just against each other but against the records of past pentathletes; change it and you set a precedent for it being changed every ten or twenty years to keep up with whatever current fashions in sports are, and just as the system is coming into balance, and athletes workig out how to optimise their training, it will be time for yet another combination.
Changing things because they are not up to date can invite an entirely different set of problems to the ones which you address. (I haven't even mentioned the possibilities of a 'split' where you will have some pentathletes playing in official events such as the Olympics, whilst others perhaps go for the 'traditional modern pentathlon' version in competitions funded by eccentrics.)
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I cant believe ive been reading all of these comments, as for the most part they have been driving me mad!!
Mr Slater, you are clearly a fool it has to be said. Do you not realize that for the most part many of Great Britain's athletes come from so called privileged backgrounds, many making it to professional status by representing university teams, much like professional rugby!! And do you really think that 'posh' people spend their days shooting and fencing with one another?! of course they don't dingus!
oh and you dont have to be mega rich to have access to horses, i live in the countryside and thus there are many in my area that own/ride horses many of whom earn far less than the national average but due to our geographical location, and it has to be said certain life choices, own horses. Some people spend their money on holidays, computers, cars etc. its all a matter of choice! so if a person choses to dedicate their time to mastering what are essentially minority sports i say all power to them, and that essentially is what the Olympics are all about.
May I also point out that Miss Fell had to support herself by working as a barmaid in order to fund her training. Would love to see overpaid under worked footballers for example doing such things!
I love everything about the Olympics apart from all balls that we have to put up with from journalists telling us exactly what we are meant to expect when they clearly have little to no knowledge on to subject matter. And as some others before pointed out if the modern pentathlon is out dated then surely we should just sack off jumping over a pole, jumping into a sand pit and throwing a stick as far as possible, at the end of the day its all bloody pointless but so what, there are far worse things!!god i cant believe im doing this
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"May I also point out that Miss Fell had to support herself by working as a barmaid in order to fund her training. " Barmaids must be paid really well where Ms. Fell lives then....after rent, bills, basic living expenses (food etc.) and council tax, she's still got money left for training. That's amazing.
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I completely disagree with MS, who clearly has a very large chip on his shoulder about people who ride horses - his social class bitterness stops him seeing beyond the stereotypes that exist only in his own mind.
Modern Pentathlon is a brilliant combination of events that tests a range of qualities - there certainly seemed to be a large number of athletes competing in the event from a wide range of countries.
By the way, I'm an ordinary female from a council house estate, and the only one of the five disciplines I've tried to any meaningful extent is horse-riding. In my experience, if the facility for a sport is geographically near to you and it appeals, the chances are you will try it out - once you are keen on a sport, it's amazing how people manage to adjust their money/lifestyle to accommodate it!
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Well, if the modern pentathlon's old hat, how about the post-modern pentathlon?
Each competitor would have free choice of which country - or other entity - to represent. They would each choose their own five disciplines, and define the winning criteria for each.
Naturally, no medals would be awarded.
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Surely if the debate here is a bout modern pentathlon containing sports deemed to be 'unaccessible' then the best thing to do would be to keep it in the games, do well (as we are doing) and encourage people to get into the sport.
It's hard enough as it is to have enough funding/time to train in one sport, let alone the 5 different ones involved in MP - and MS's comment -
"As for your comment about MP medals being worth more than single event medals because they have to work five times harder, I can only assume you're joking."
just left me stunned.
And if we are talking about accessibility- maybe some of you should look around you and see all of the fencing clubs willing to offer a beginners course - you'd be surprised!
The immense amount of time and talent needed for multi-discipline sports is something worth rewarding.
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Personally I find the multi-sport events the most interesting.
However I think you could make the pentathlon more interesting by making it more like the triathlon.
Rather than hold the sports separately merge them into one. If you changed the show jumping to horse racing with fences it might actually be possible - the only problem is the fencing.
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Please proofread your article for necessary accents
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Matt, good on you for stimulating debate. I dislike your views on this subject, but would defend to the death your right to say it.
For me MP is a great event - I am a rifle shooter, only of Uni Team standard, and now I'm a graduate, I'm unlikely to shoot that much anymore. However, I enjoy the sport, and enjoy watching sport. Yes, having some very beautiful people (in Heather and Katy) compete, and yes they might well be privileged enough to do it, but this is the pinnacle of their sport and I don't think it should be knocked. I'm sure it isn't open to everyone, but I'm fairly sure Taekwondo or even my own sport Rifle Shooting aren't open to everyone - however that doesn't make them any less Olympic sports.
That's my two pence.
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I would institute a brand new olympic brand, in the general vein of the Paralympics.
All the posh public school type events that require contestants to wear top hats and spats etc. could be moved to this, as could all the ridiculous non-sports like dancing around on a mat with a streamer or jumping into a swimming pool at exactly the same time as your partner.
I have yet to think of a catchy name for it that is not rude or overly derogatory. I am open to suggestions.
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I think the modern pentathlon is fine as it is. And is it really any more elitist than the decathlon. I mean, how many of us have ever tried pole vaulting? Or are ever likely to?
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not totally PC but how about the challenges a immigrant faces trying to get into another country, surely this is more relevant for 2008?
The event could start with a high jump (or pole vault for a bit more randomness) to replicate jumping a wall then move on to the running from the border patrol...sorry 10km run followed by a swim then how about mixing two sports together like bmx shooting or horseback archery, these sports keep the randomness of the current event and open the event up to everyone.
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I have to agree to some of the accessibility issues to this sport. Although some people have made some very good arguments to prove that, yes, people who aren't very rich or connected can access this sport, I have to say that shooting, fencing and horseriding were things that weren't available to me growing up. And I grew up in the countryside, horse riding is NOT more accessible because you live in the country. It still requires a significant amount of money-something that was not available to my parents as they raised five children whilst struggling to pay a mortgage. In fact, the only time they were able to afford to give me any extra time with sports were when three of my elder siblings had already left home and me and my brother were able to take summer classes at a local tennis club-the only sports club my town had except for a bowling club. And that lasted for 6 weeks for me because tennis was not a natural talent of mine (of course, I could barely see over the net at the time).
There have been plenty of mentions of Equestrian Clubs, Shooting Clubs and Fencing Clubs, but I couldn't tell you where the nearest one of the latter two to me is. I suspect in Bristol, 40 miles away.
So, unless you live in a city or have lots of time and money to spare, this isn't a sport that you can take up easily.
But the more alarming thing is that many of the sports in the Olympics are getting more and more unavailable to those outside of cities and connected families. And I'm not talking about rowing or sailing or other events that seem to be seen as 'elitist'.
The school my mother works in no longer has permanent PE teachers. They hire in Sports Science instructors to take PE classes-something that is happening in more and more schools across the country. In some respects, this is good. Instead of a normal teacher who knows little about sports trying to teach children, you get someone who can focus on skill and technique, whilst knowing how to keep the participating children safe. However, that means that extracurricular sports are now an extra expense to some schools. When schools have to pay someone to come in and host and athletics club or other sports club, which schools are going to keep that in their limited budget?
Already, back when I was in school, PE was two hours a week. If you were lucky and talented, you could join the football, rugby or netball clubs. During the summer you could take part in sports day. That is the amount of sport most people get access to.
How long will it be before some children leave school having never even picked up a javelin or thrown a discus (the only time I threw a javelin was when I was dragged along to a local school athletics competition because I lived two minutes from the school and was able to get a PE kit before the coach left after a last minute drop out)? Do any school children go swimming for anything other than learning how to stay afloat? How many schools still teach gymnastics (it's considered too 'dangerous' to be taught at my local campus of schools in today's suing culture)?
All in all, I have no objection to the Modern Pentathalon. I have no objections to many of the sports, to be honest, because I know that even if I have little interest in some of them, they mean the world to others.
But it does feel rather disheartening to watch some of the events and think 'I wish I could have done that when I was growing up'. I'm old enough now to know that I will never be that good at any sport, having reached the age where most athletes retire! Just because Modern Pentathalon includes several events that I've never had the opportunity to try, doesn't make it less valid than many of the other sports included in the games. Otherwise, most of the sports featured would be beneath my attention.
Although, maybe if I can find an Archery Club-that looks like it could be taken up by someone in their mid twenties! Anyone know of an Archery Club in Somerset?
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I don't view your comments as class driven and I can understand why you view the MP as an elitist sport.
What does irritate me is that your comments appear to contain either little or no research. Your job seems to be to go and watch and event and then start a debate on why it isn't a good sport(despite the fact that you know nothing about it). You don't appear to have any expertise in your subject and you certainly show no indication that you have any interest in finding out anything new about the sport (your Patton paragraph apart). In short, you tell us your opinion on a subject. But we could do that ourselves by watching the sport on the television because we know just as little as you do. However, you get to go on the holiday of a lifetime to then pass on your ill educated and badly argued views to us. Don't get me started on who pays for that holiday.
By the way, elitism is an irrelevant argument unless you favour a complete change in the olympic format. Developed countries are always going to dominate technical sports (especially those that involve equipment). That is blatantly unfair. Old Etonians have won 6 rowing gold medals since '92. Coincidence or a privileged schooling?
You have a job that every blogger on this page envies so instead of rattling off half an hour of your general opinion, do some real research and justify why you and not one of us gets such a fantastic job.
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Matt its nice to see you shooting yourself in the foot aswell. no problem with people riding horses was your first view then saying kick them out the olympics because its elitist. sort it out mate your starting to look foolish
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What you'd be looking for is five relatively diverse events that a sufficient number will have done without explicitly wanting to be modern pentathletes first (which I think was Matt Slater's problem).
So at a guess, a fair number of modern army recruits might have done the following:
Swim
Climb (artificial wall)
Wrestle (fall or force the other out of a marked ring perhaps, could equally make it judo).
Run
Shoot (could the run and shoot be combined similarly to biathlon in the winter games?)
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It's a shame to see that the blog comments section is becoming more and more like the universally mocked 'Have Your Say'. Good to see that no one disagreeing with you, Matt, have paid any attention to the problems you raised of combining a number of sports that have low uptakes anyway.
For the obligatory comment on what events should be dropped, dressage and synchronised swimming are the obvious two. I'll even pre-empt the normal stupid responses: no, it doesn't matter how hard they might be.
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JDWBJDWB - showing a deliberate warped statistic there, since Matt Pinsent counts four of those medals (Ed Coode and Andrew Lindsay being the other two I think). One could also argue that five gold medals were won between 1984 and 2000 by dyslexics who left school at 16...
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Ho hum. Another cliche ridden blog from Slater. You seem to wear your ignorance as a badge of honour. In between the failed attempts at comedy and 'I'm hard I am' sub-Loaded journalism you say nothing of note. Do we really pay our license fee for this kind of rubbish.
This article can be summed up as 'I don't understand the sport - therefore it is inaccessible so get rid of it.'
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London 2012, one learns with some dread, is determined to be 'hip' and 'cool' - appealing thereby, it is claimed, to modern yoof, whose very lips would curl - could they be so bothered - at such dated language.
A Modern Pentathlon in that image would include:
Distance gobbing
Pavement cycling
Combined public urination and vomiting
Sub-linguistic cursing
Free-form feral behaviour
...Reckon I'd rather keep the old-fashioned modern thank you very much.
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leave MP alone, skill needs rewarding in conjunction with athleticism. Could fencing be shown in super slo_mo please, i think im missing the point.
the triathlon is quite 'modern' enough thank you but better with mountain biking and cross country running replacing the tarmac stages
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I was going to try for reasoned argument on updating the MP but quite honestly all multi-event sports produce inferior performances compared to the single event sports and they should all be deleted including the decathlon. You won't find Usain Bolt thinking to himself 'Shall I become the fastest man on earth or shall I do ten events not so well?'
I don't the relevance or availability of a sport in the UK should affect its inclusion in the Olympics. The Olympics are not a giant advert for Sport UK to encourage us to get off our collective fat proletarian backsides and save the NHS money. They are an opportunity for us to sit on said backsides and enjoy watching freaks of nature do amazing things we couldn't even dream of.
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"As for your comment about MP medals being worth more than single event medals because they have to work five times harder, I can only assume you're joking. Because anything else would be "very myopic in the extreme" and suggest "zero thought" had gone into that statement. But I appreciate that it probably just "popped into your head", right?"
Well, I was merely pointing out that the MP was not worth LESS than any other event, not that it was worth MORE. You seem to have mis-read my statement, perhaps a touch myopic of you (!).
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Hello all, thanks for contributing to a decent debate (especially you, MrsJohnMurphy, always good to hear your expert critiques of my work - two years on and you're still angry...unbelievable).
OUMPma (53), good points and info. But it's interesting to me that you confirm what I suspected about the importance of the show jumping round.
oldsaxon (58), yep, I think we're in 100% agreement.
Melgorn (63), read the article again. I'm not asking for Heather Fell (who I praise along with all the MP competitors here) to return her medal, I'm not even saying the event shouldn't have been here. I am questioning its future as an Olympic sport. Keeping a sport in the Games just because we've won medals in it is a very parochial stance.
simonjgriffiths (64), I think you inadvertently prove my point. You are taking the sport up now. Are you still young enough to dream of Olympic success? Why didn't you take the sport up before? Was it the cost of having to join three different clubs? Or was it that you didn't have the time/means to get to them?
chronoTom23 (68), I'm glad that you live in place where normal, everyday folk have ready access to horses (where is this rural idyll, by the way?) but like others you have failed to address the issue of access for the rest of the population...and not just in our country. You also seem to have missed the point that I am talking about the opportunity to try the MP combination of events. So it is not just access to horse-riding that is the issue. As for your points about many of our sportsmen and women coming from "privileged backgrounds", I'm sorry to burst your bubble but that's common knowledge. About 40% of Team GB at these Games went to independent schools, that compares with 7% of the overall population. Now, there are lots of reasons for that and many interpretations. Simply flagging it up, though, and calling me a "dingus", isn't particularly illuminating. As for your piece of biographical detail about Fell, again, you're offering nothing new. I'm sure the Daily Mail et al went large on that. But it should also be pointed out the money she raised from part-time bar and physio work wouldn't have gone very far without her parents' support for the 18 months she was without Lottery funding. When asked about how she was able to fit all her training in during this time, she said the running and swimming was easy but it was tough to fit in much fencing and shooting...the riding, however, took care of itself. Really? I wonder how many people in our wealthy nation can say that about the ability to practise show jumping?
newShazza (70), large chip? Would that be a pot/kettle chip?
I think you and chronoTom should look at selenityshiroi's post at 79.
memo87 (74), re: accents, you're right but we can't add them in our publishing system (or if we can, I haven't worked out how to do it). I'll ask the techies.
Jordan D (75), good post, thanks.
JDWBJDWB (80), thanks for ignoring all that class nonsense but I'm going to have to pick you up on your others comments. No research? Maybe I'm a slow reader but I assure you there is plenty more than 30 minutes worth of research there. Please, send me an example of an article on the Olympic MP that has more research in it. And if it's further biographical detail on Fell, don't bother. That all came out in the press conference as the "human interest" angle is the only MP story the papers were ever going to tell. My piece isn't about Fell or any of the other competitors, it's my opinion (well spotted, it's a blog) on the sport's ongoing suitability as an Olympic sport. As for your holiday comment, I'll grit my teeth and ignore that, and I guess the reason I am here is that I worked reasonably hard at school, chose subjects that made some sense for a career in the media, took a loan and did a post-grad course, took jobs at the bottom of the ladder, gained experience blah blah.....all very accessible and you could have done the same if you wanted. No guarantees, of course, it's a popular job.
mightybuffalo (81), in your haste to criticise you have missed my answers to Big Frankie at 50 and 55....answers which Big Frankie acknowledges at 57. But I imagine you were a bit distracted by picked up by EdTuBrutus for those bizarre rowing comments you made.
That's all from me on this subject so thanks for reading and contributing. My prize for best comment goes to #35....sums up very neatly what I was trying to say above.
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As a modern pent (MP) athlete I find this discussion very interesting.
Most people here fails to realize how vital the Olympics are. I mean; where would i.e. rowing and fencing be without it. Sports such as football, tennis and basketball would all manage without.
Yet it is sports like Modern Penth. which is criticized. Why? -
Because it is only the rich which can afford it. This is gibberish. The class argument may hold for Britain. But the reason why so few people practices M.P. is that it is time consuming.
Swimming is not expensive and most people can afford to buy a pair of running shoes. Yes fencing equipment (600£) and air pistol (800£) costs money.
Then there is show jumping. Yes it is the most expensive but most MP athletes don’t own a horse as they are provided at the tournaments. So it is better to practices on different horses all the time. Besides the level of show jumping, is fare from as high as regular show jumping, so you cannot compare the costs.
The biggest scacrifice is the time you don't have with friends and family.
Usually people startout with one or two. Once you reach a level they progress only little by little. MP offeres a chance to get the feeling of getting better and better all the time, while you try to maintain a level in others.
I think Matt Slater that you should rather ask the question; how can we make the sport more TV and viewer friendly?
The answer is to combine shooting with running. This is being heavily debate at the moment and might be introduced in the Olympics in London.
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LOL. Slater, have you ever actually tried reading your own work? Just pointing the obviously flaws in your work - ie no research and but all of the cliches. Nice to see you are as hypocritical as ever - a golf hack accusing another sport of elitism. Still I suppose your mockney try-hardism is quite sweet but about as authentic as Guy Ritchie.
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The Star
(1)
Twinkle, twinkle, little star!
How I wonder what you are,
Up above the world so high,
Like a diamond in the sky.
(2)
When the blazing sun is gone,
When he nothing shines upon,
Then you show your little light,
Twinkle, twinkle all the night.
(3)
The dark blue sky you keep
And often thro' my curtains peep,
For you never shut your eye
Till the sun is in the sky.
(4)
'Tis your bright and tiny spark
Lights the traveler in the dark;
Though I know not what you are
Twinkle, twinkle, little star!
-----by aoc power leveling
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For 2012 they should change to
1)shooting, air gun over 5 metres at ballons in a fun fair location.
2)fencing to be replaced by darts.
3)swimming should be underwater, further you go without coming up for air gets you more points.
4)show jumping to be replaced with mass horse race over grand national course.
5)points changed to seconds and that time is equal to head start over being chased down by staff bull terriers, first to make it to the finish line unbitten wins gold.
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Matt Slater, you along with many in the BBC are perhaps the most ignorant generation of sports journalists we have ever had the misfortune of being forced to watch, listen to and read.
It is almost impossible to overstate your lack of any knowledge or understanding of the Olympic Games and its sports. This piece you have written about the Modern Pentathlon is just the most offensive.
You claim the sport has such a small talent pool as not to justify inclusion in the Olympic Games. Well for a start more than 30,000 people alone in the UK take part in Pony Club tetrathlon, which comprises four of the pentathlon sports - shooting, swimming, riding and running.
Many of these people are hard working farmers or country people who don't own half of a county with a peerage to hand down but live by modest means and are forced to borrow equipment - including their horses in order to compete.
Outside of the UK, millions tune into the pentathlon. Take Hungary for instance, tens of thousands of people turn up to watch the world championships or world cup events in Budapest. It is far more than turn up to an average club rugby match in England.
Zsuzsanna Voros who won the 2004 Olympic gold medal became Hungary's Sports Personality of the Year.
The British girls who won every single international competition going in 2001 weren't even invited to the BBC version.
Look elsewhere across Europe and you will see similar stories with pentathlon being talked about in local bars.
The sport may seem old fashioned but only to those ignorant enough not to understand the rich and wonderful history of the Olympic Games, which have brought so much joy to our television screens in the last fortnight.
Why are you always panning a sport which we consistently deliver medals in - Two in Sydney, one in Athens and now a silver in Beijing - not bad for our tiny 'talent pool' which has to take on the hundreds of thousands and millions who play the sport in Hungary and Russia or other east European countries.
It is about time you and others at the BBC were supportive of the sport instead of treating it with derisory comment such as this. Given we all pay your salary, we have the right to expect that at the least!
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Pentababe - Modern Pentathlon is just the latest sport to recieve the benefit of Matt Slater's wisdom and bandwagon jumping.
When over a million people turned out to watch the start of the Tour de France in the UK Slater dismissed it on the grounds that 'people just like a free day out'.
Nothing easier for a hack like Slater to do than to bash a sport that he doesn't know anything about, doesn't like and isn't interested in. Of course when it comes to the sports he does like such as golf - an entirely different matter...
Why should he bother to do any research when he can just churn out 1500 cliche ridden words? It's just lazy, hack journalism. A shame, but just a shining example of the dumbing down and lowering of standards within the BBC.
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Matt, great discussion you have provoked.
The debate on Modern Pentathlon will always stimulate sensible and polarised views due to the unique nature of the sport as well as the immature (usually failed) attempts at humorous comments regarding what should constitute a 'Modern' Pentathlon .
Just wanted to pick you up/inform on a couple of matters regarding Katy Livingston.
You commented that she shot and fenced poorly. This is a tad harsh. Take it from me, 178 out of 200 in Modern Pent shooting cannot be classed as 'poor'. The score was average (18th out of 36) in an Olympic and World Class competition - but not poor. FWIW, the German gold medallist scored less (177) . Similarly , the fencing score of 808 points was , by Katy's own admission in her interview on BBC TV , 'average' . If you had made the point that these, in particular the fencing, had made the difference between finishing 7th and a medal position, I would not have disagreed with you. However, it is probably fair to comment that genuinely 'poor' efforts in both the shooting and fencing (or any 2) disciplines would prevent an athlete from finishing in a highly creditable 7th position.
One other quick point regarding Katy. She attended a local comp and hails from a family with a completely 'non-horsey' and urban background. Katy started to learn to horse-ride at 16yrs old to allow her to take part in MP events having previously gradually accumulated the skills of the other 4 disciplines at venues/clubs very local to her North East home. I know she is very proud to be the first Olympic GB woman Pentathlete from a non-pony club background.
Finally, to add to the debate about whether MP is elitist? Probably, but not for the reason you would suggest. Many people do try MP. A previous poster referred to the number of people that take part in pony club events ( I wouldn't know about that). However, what does make international MP elitist is that only athletes having the ablity and temperament to perform to very a high standard in 5 very different events requiring a high degree of skill/fitness will reach the global summit in their sport. This is what rules out the vast majority of population from even contemplating taking up the challenge.
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Master Salter, stop answering me back, I pay your wages by means of the most unjust tax ever levied in the Uk, the Licence fee.
Modern pent sems to me to be exactly the sort of rounded sport that state schools should encourage, probably for practical reasons as a quadrathlon with no riding until elite level. Maybe BMX obstacle course at under 16 level.
Shooting of course has been discouraged in the UK since Dunblane, a classic case of kneejerk missing the target. The issue with T Hamilton is now more porperly recognised as being that he was a/ a paedophile and b/ his alleged "rights" to a gun licence were given precendence over the good judgement of the local copper. So as usual in UK, the rights of the majority were compromised rather than any effort to identify the minority who should have their rights curtailed. See alcohol legislation and Id cards for parallels
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The 'class' argument against MP is a misconception led by townie stereotypes who don't realise that in some parts of the country it is quite normal for anybody of any class to ride horses in much the same way as it is quite normal for anybody on any inner-city council estate to spend the similar quantities of money on stacks of Wii and PS3 games.
The problem is that the MP is angled towards the kind of sports that traditionally appeal to the middle class rural population, but money is not an issue. Snooker is a working class game, but snooker tables are a damned sight more expensive than fencing gear.
As for football in the Olympics, the aversion to it is a purely British thing, simply because there is no British team, for others it is consistently the most attended event in the game.
'Judging' sports always spark controversy, but they are not going to go away, so it is a waste of time debating the subject.
For me, the biggest problem with the Olympics is that too much is squeezed into just two weeks, and it means several events just don't get the coverage they deserve because of it. I would keep a similar programme, but spread it over three weeks, reducing the number of major events all happening at the same time. The athletics is the showpiece event, but even then, a lot of it gets missed because TV networks are also trying to cover six or seven other events going on at the same time.
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In response to Matt Slater's question:
Who, apart from a few fortunate youngsters, ever really gets the chance to combine these now very arbitrary skills? - these are my thoughts:
The Pony Club has been running 'Tetrathlon' events since the 70's. Tetrathlon consists of shooting, swimming, running and horse riding (no fencing). The sport is open to children aged as young as 6 to 21. If you are a member of a Pony Club you would be informed about the Tetrathlon competitions being held in your area throughout the summer. You don't need to own your own horse, these events allow you to share horses, you don't need to own your own equipment, the Pony Clubs generally have a pool of pistols you can borrow at the event. You just need to turn up.
Yes, you can say it's an elitist sport because you have to be a member of the Pony Club to start with, but from my experience (and I was a member of the Pony Club from the age of 3 to 21) members came from a wide variety of backgrounds.
Before I started Tetrathlon (aged 9), I had never held a gun, run further than 100m, or could swim further than 2 lengths, but I was encouraged to try it and see how I got on. I loved it, and instantly wanted to join a swimming club and get running. It was because of Tetrathlon, that I later represented my county at both swimming and cross country running, 2 sports I had no idea I was actually quite good at and 2 sports which my school had no interest in and therefore gave me no coaching.
There was the opportunity as i got older, to move to Modern Pentathlon, but University and travelling the world seemed like more fun than a lot of hard training. Which is where I would agree with an earlier comment, that the difficulty in the sport is finding the time to train for all events.
The point of this post is to highlight that organisations such as the Pony Club are providing the 'grass roots' of sports such as Modern Pentathlon, far from being elitist they positively try and encourage everybody to have a go, whether you've never shot before or can only swim doggy paddle, it's the taking part that counts.
In my time in the Pony Club, I saw girls and boys that I competed with go on to represent their country, not only in Modern Pentathlon, but also in athletics and swimming.
It's a far cry from Matt's view that only the 'very view fortunate youngsters' get to try these sports.
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As the "modern pentathlon" concept was supposed to simulate elements from the battlefield, it would be appropriate, or at least amusing to bring this up to date in the 21st century, and to extend it to alternative aspects of life.
For the modern executive hobby sportlers we could have: nordic walking; in-line skating; spinning; frisbee; aqua-aerobics. These would simulate the challenges in the life of many busy professionals.
For a less advantaged class we might have: rock throwing (as if at a violent demo); target shooting using a pump action rifle (gang warfare); summer biathlon - running and shooting at a moving target using a Kalashnikov (freedom fighter); chain-link fence climbing (escaping an enemy gang); city centre maze running (fleeing police).
Readers should be warned not to try the events in this second category for themselves
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Matt, first of all fair play for getting back to everyone - although I don't agree with your article I like your gumption in defending your point. Secondly, can I point out the article on Timesonline that Simon Barnes wrote about MP - I think he captures some of the spirit and skills involved perfectly.
Just a final point about the class war/access thing - at least two of our MP Olympic team come from very normal backgrounds. It might be a cheap point but isn't this is a higher percentage than the GB team per se?
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Matt,
A very interesting and controversial article. I think why you wrote this article. Could be one of two reasons.
1. You do not understand the Olympics
2. You wanted to write a controversial article to get responses.
I live in US and watched www.nbcolympics.com, great idea, by the way.
This is the most fascinating and interesting and difficult I have seen in the Olympics. Track and field is the only other sport that makes me interested. These athletes compete all day from early morning until early evening, about 12 hours, just for one medal.
When I was watching all night long, this pentathlon, I could not believe how difficult this sport appears to be, both mentally and physically. My heart breaks just thinking about what these athletes have to go thru all day in the competition. Physically it may compare to marathon and mentally perhaps like driving a race car and playing chess. This appears to be to me to be the best all around athlete at the Olympics. Is not that the purpose of the design?
I made some research and discovered that this sport was created by de Coubertin the creator of the Olympic Games, to select the best all around athlete at the Olympic Games. I agree with you that some sports should not be in the Olympics, but I also think pentathlon should be in the Olympics forever.
I was also impressed as to how many spectators were watching, I read over 30,000 were in the stands every day.
My friends at the Olympics could not buy a ticket for pentathlon.
In the modern time, money, sex, commercials should not be the only thing driving the sports at the Olympics. Hard work and spirit should be the spirit of the Olympic Games.
Sebron
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Only in classist Britain would anyone write like this. However, it was shocking the way the riding element was conducted. I am by no means an expet horse rider but I am used to riding new and different horses (as I don't own one). There really is no excuse for the modern pentathletes to ride so badly. Perhaps they neglect to train properly in all their disciplines.
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