- 7 Aug 08, 04:05 PM
Ricky Hatton has carved out a nice sideline for himself as an after-dinner speaker and the butt of many of his jokes is his alter ego "Ricky Fatton".
This pie-munching, stout-quaffing man of the people is the stuff of Manchester folklore and gags about him having a lot on his plate never fail to bring the house down.
It is not, however, a line anybody should try around Frankie Gavin, who has been working with Hatton's slimming guru Kerry Kayes, for a while.
In fact, people would be well advised to give Gavin a wide berth for some time - the 22-year-old has just lost his shot at Olympic glory and he didn't even get to throw a punch.
Having not lost a bout for over two years, Gavin was undone by that most implacable of opponents, the scales. Nearly all fighters admit to "struggling with their weight" but not in the same way your Auntie Beryl struggles with hers.
For them, the struggle is to fight at the lowest weight they can reach and still perform: for Gavin, that was the 57-60kg lightweight class - "was" being the operative word. Always a "big" lightweight, Gavin has found it harder and harder to remain under the 60kg mark as his body has matured.
These growing pains have resulted in him fighting at the next band up, light-welterweight, for much of this year. He fought at 64kg at the EU Boxing Championships in June, won the belt and was named boxer of the tournament.
Fighting at that weight in Beijing, however, was never an option, as Bradley Saunders is Britain's light-welterweight entry. And Saunders is a medal prospect in his own right.
Gavin's EU campaign should have been a clue to us all just how touch-and-go his prospects of ever fighting at lightweight again really were, but it was a clue few can honestly say they picked up on.
The word from a bullish British camp was that their best medal prospect was on track to pull off his usual slimmer-of-the-year trick and duck in under 60kg at Friday's weigh-in.
He has been a few kilos above his fighting weight many times before and always shed them when it mattered, we were told. This is part and parcel of a sport based on weight handicaps, we were assured. Nothing will keep "Fabulous" Frankie from his gold medal moment, we swallowed completely.
Most of us didn't even think twice when Gavin failed to arrive in Beijing with his seven team-mates. He was just completing his preparations at Team GB's holding camp in Macau - there's nothing unusual about that, is there?
So when rumours of a still-too-heavy Gavin boarding a flight back to Blighty emerged they came like a blow to the kidneys.
What has been happening these last few days in Macau is still a little unclear but, as you can probably imagine, there has been no shortage of speculation - the press release confirming the news from the British Olympic Association left plenty of room for that. Details were conspicuous by their absence, a bit like Gavin.
The only bone we were initially thrown came in this quote from GB's head boxing coach Terry Edwards: "Whilst the support staff down and I have done everything we could, regrettably, it is clear Frankie will not make his weight before tomorrow morning's weigh-in."
This immediately prompted some to ask if Gavin, whose interest in a professional boxing career is well known, did everything he could to make the weight. Could he be staying out of harm's way (and boxing dehydrated would constitute harm's way) to safeguard future earnings?
Edwards later said that Gavin had given "110%" to make the weight. He added: "If you understand the weight-making process it is the last bit, where you have to shed the water, that is crucial. "
Some wondered how the "support staff" and Edwards could have failed in such a fundamental task of ensuring their best fighter makes the weight for a tournament he has spent, in Edwards' words, his "entire boxing career" working towards.
Former Olympic boxing medallist Richie Woodhall went even further and described the situation as a complete howler.
"There's that many people - nutritionists, physiotherapists - involved these days that are paid good money," said Woodhall.
"It's just a total let-down by everyone. Making the weight is just not an issue - you make the weight."
He has a point. This is the greatest show on earth we're talking about.
But nobody knows the value of an Olympic medal better than Gavin himself.
When he left the ring victorious at the 2006 Commonwealth Games, the southpaw spelled it out: pro terms are dictated to a Commonwealth champ, an Olympic champ dictates his own.
He will also have seen exactly what Olympic success did for his old sparring partner Amir Khan. And every boxing fan knows how far Audley Harrison's Sydney gold carried his career.
Gavin is a far better fighter than A-Force and very possibly a superior prospect to Khan. He is our first world amateur boxing champion and there is every likelihood that whoever wins the lightweight gold in Beijing will have lost to Gavin at some point in the last two years. He has beaten them all.
So I don't buy the conspiracy theory and I don't think we can make a judgement yet on the cock-up option either.
My guess is that Gavin, who has a pregnant girlfriend at home and suitors from the pro game at his gate, was caught between conflicting counsel.
He could stay and take the risk of putting his body through the pain and perspiration of getting his 60kg-plus frame under the limit for five fights in 14 days, or he could go home, turn pro and fight at a more suitable weight in the future.
On top of this would have been Edwards' dilemma: dare he risk one of his young charges' careers (and the reputation of his burgeoning programme) by asking him to fight when at a disadvantage?
But again, this is speculation.
All that is certain is that a young man will be flying home now with a bag full of regrets rather than the gold medal many thought was his for the taking.
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This is supposed to be the best prepared team ever to leave these shores; if thats the case how does this happen?
Very disappointing for the lad indeed - good luck getting that pro contract son
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It is easy to explain how this happens, not matter how well prepared the team.
Fighters qualify at their weight and if the space in the weight above is full then they have no alternative but to try to keep their weight down. No one else could legitimately take Gavin's place so either he tried to make the weight or the place goes empty.
Very unfortunate but there is a limit to the amount of wieght anyone can shed and remai healthy and not really anything anyone could do.
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Poor show!
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at least no one can call him a lightweight ...
seriously, huge blow without our main man but gavin's gone, time to cheer the rest of the lads on
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Matt, from your photo, you look as though you don't struggle with your weight, but a lot of people do (I have a mate called Mike and, well, moving home to live in the centre of London's curry mecca was probably not the best thing for his weight control). The point I want to make is, it's easy to put on weight and hard to lose it. But anyway, I think Gavin has totally let the nation down and should be ashamed of himself. Is it too late to send someone else (not my mate Mike, though)?
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I just hope this doesn't have a negative effect on the rest of the team. Success breeds success and the loss of quite probably their strongest bet for a gold isn't something that can be just brushed off.
Hopefully this will make the rest of the team determined to get their moment in the sun and perform to their best. If not, this'll have been an even bigger own goal that we think now.
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First of all I wouldn't refer to Kerry Kayes as a 'slimming guru', she couldn't even keep an Olympian athelete at a decent weight.
Hearing about this I mostly feel sorry for the lad, as between the nutritionists, physios, trainers and coaches running his daily regime, I can't imagine he could have had the chance to deviate from their plan. They are the ones that will have made him put bulk on with weight training, fed him the wrong foods, and given him the wrong advice. It's an absolute shame as not only would he have had a good chance at winning a gold in the Olympics (something that won't come around for him again), he has been let down by the very people he put his trust into. It's going to be very hard for him to get over this mentally and continue his career, especially on the day when the boxing gold will be given to someone else.
I just hope this is the only blip on Team GB's organisation, it'd be a shame if the cycling team forgot their bikes and had to come back too
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It would be interesting to know what weight he actually was when they decided he would be sent home, hardly one or two KG over the 60Kg as that could have been worked off. He was probably up to 70Kg I'd say, that's why it was pointless even bringing him to Bejing for the weigh in. There will be no replacement from any country for him as if he doesn't show up, that's it, his slot is left vacant and someone will end up getinng a bye. Pro promoters, they should be kept away from Olympians until after the Olympic Games.
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Meanwhile, why do ye all keep calling it the GB team when we all know
it is England - the Scots and the Welsh couldn't punch snow off a rope.
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The complaints from the likes of Woodhall are really poor. We are constantly warned that boxers who struggle to make weight increase their risk of serious injury, but now because its the Olympics the lad is chastised.
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9. At 6:00pm on 07 Aug 2008, bernard10000 wrote:
Meanwhile, why do ye all keep calling it the GB team when we all know
it is England - the Scots and the Welsh couldn't punch snow off a rope.
I think you'll find that Scottish boxing is very promising at the moment, what with Alex Arthur being world champ, there's also Darren Traynor from Aberdeen, the first Briton to win the Golden Gloves World Championship last year, along with several current British Champs being Scottish.
I feel sorry for Frankie, it is the worst feeling to be told that you are not going to be able to fight, especially if you've worked your entire life to get to that level. Also, if you think it's easy to loose those last few pounds and still be able to perform to your best ability, you clearly have never fought in your life.
Unlucky Frankie.
Good luck to the rest of TEAM GB!!
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Forgive me if i'm wrong but isn't gavin 100% from an irish background like alot of the other boxers representing gb.
I'm saying it in the context of bernard10000 saying that it shouldn't be called gb but england because the taffs and the jocks can't punch snow of a rope when they're of celtic descent like it would appear the English born lads of irish descent.
Also, the Welsh have produced one of the greaters boxers of his generation in Calzaghe. The scots have been unusually quiet by their standards admittedly over the last 10 years but they still have a very fine tradition.
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i've never before heard of a boxer withdrawing from the Olympic contest because he can't make the weight. Either this one is a first or there's something else involved and it's just a cover up of something more questionable...
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#9 not trying to start a wind up are we????
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"Could he be staying out of harm's way (and boxing dehydrated would constitute harm's way) to safeguard future earnings?"
"My guess is that Gavin, who has a pregnant girlfriend at home and suitors from the pro game at his gate, was caught between conflicting counsel."
Dreadful, appalling, dumb speculation of the worst kind. Perhaps you can put your slanderous accusations to Mr. Gavin face-to-face and see what his reaction is.
"But again, this is speculation." It is slander, insinuation and pathetic.
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"Dreadful, appalling, dumb speculation of the worst kind. Perhaps you can put your slanderous accusations to Mr. Gavin face-to-face and see what his reaction is."
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but what I think we got from Matt Slater was fairly considered conjecture based on on-the-ground info. If I bumped into Gavin (unlikely since I don't frequent KFC and McDonalds), I would happily ask him why he felt the need to take a place which could have gone to someone else guaranteed to make the weight. I suspect he would be very contrite and shame-faced, but of course all the managers and professional boxing leeches will make sure he never has to answer that question.
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Hello lev, thanks for (skim) reading another of my blogs and sharing your (knee-jerk) reaction.
I think Moutarde has kind of got there first but the point of the piece (on a blog site, so clearly a subjective piece of opinion) was to give people a snapshot of how the news was received here. The bits you quoted back at me are approximations of the kind of things that were being said/asked by reporters/pundits yesterday.
If you read a bit more carefully you'll have noticed I said I just didn't know what had happened in Macao and wasn't in a position to apportion blame. In fact, I went on to say I don't "buy the conspiracy theory" and provide reasons why I believe Gavin did everything he could to make the weight (within reason). I then offer a "guess" and readily admit that I am speculating, for the reasons I have already given.
Anyway, thanks for reading and I look forward to your next considered reaction to one of my blog pieces.
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Is this one of the "good causes" that National Lottry funding goes towards?
Somehow it makes me think of pilots putting in a few years in the RAF at the taxpayers' expense before joining commercial airlines.
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Well said Moutarde and Matt. From some of the comments on this blog and others at the BBC it seems that people want our journalists to just report what happens and not to give any opinion or interpretation.
I'm not suggesting that the journalist's are always right, but it is a lot more interesting to read an article with an interpretation of events then just the events themselves. All the journalists writing often say that they are only giving their own opinion or that of others and so we should only take it as that and create our own picture of what happened from all the sources available.
Keep up the good work.
p.s. is it not libel when something is written rather then slander?
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Oh, it's a blog is it? It's an article on a public website that is funded by the public as is your salary.
Hiding behind the description "blog" doesn't mean you should be any less accurate or any less intelligent. "Blog" seems to have become a descriptive tool for allowing a lack of responsibility.
A guess? Speculation? No, what you choose to do is insuate, because a sportperson has made a sensible intelligent decision which has the knock-on effect of denying Britain a medal in the precious medals table. You know exactly what you are doing. Admitting ignorance and then following that admission with wild insuations is a deliberate ploy. (Also, if you are ignorant of the facts, should you be writing about it? There are plenty of BBC "journalists" in China.))
I read the whole article, more than once, just to check that I hadn't misunderstood. It is clear what your motive was. I readily assessed the objective of your article easily.
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1 MorrisMitchener is welcome to come and visit the boys at Stirling ABC anytime and test his theory
2 Frankie may go home now and turn pro, but the difference these 2 weeks would have made to the opportunities he will get will be unfathomable. Whatever the reason this will probably have an enormous effect upon the guys entire future. Frankie Gavin with an olympic gold would have been a household name and a superstar, Frankie Gavin without an olympic gold will be just another talented pro working through the ranks.
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I think the whole point of this blog is to share opinion on stories that won't read anywhere else - to that end, this is a
refreshing viewpoint.
On the Gavin issue - each sportsman has to take ultimately responsibility for the condition of their own bodies - I find
it hard to believe that anyone would blindly leave themselves in the hands of their coaching staff - so as disappointing as
this is froma British medal point of view, let's remember that Gavin took the decision to fly out there, he was the one that decided that not to make the weight and he's the one that'll have to deal with boxing public's disappointment when he turns pro.
And is there someone onthis board who's a teensy bit jealous he's not out in Beijing getting paid to write this stuff.....
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Sorry - I meant Bernard10000 (#9) - is welcome at Stirling ABC
apologies to MorrisMitchener
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Lev, the article was written on the basis of the BOA's incredibly brief press release, conversations with journalists immediately after the press release arrived, a couple of phone calls to boxing officials in the UK and my own knowledge of a situation I have been following for some time (but didn't predict turning out like this....I haven't found anybody who did).
And do you know what? I think my guess is probably pretty close to the truth.
Can you just spell out what you think I was insinuating so I'm sure how to defend myself from your accusations of slander (although, as deadballdispute points out, it would be libel)?
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Maybe Livdo should get his own blog? I can picture it now:
"Today, there were 3 races in the pool and there were 3 winners. There were also 3 people who came second and also 3 who came 3rd. Everyone else who partook in the 3 races will be going home empty-handed. Unless they win other races."
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Right or wrong in what happened about his weight, his health is important.
Just look at Gary Russell Jr of the US boxing team - same scenario about weight except he ended up being so dehydrated that he has been found collapsed in his room
Makes you think how many others there are
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"And in other news there was a winner, a 2nd place and a 3rd place, as well as a number of losers in all of today's events. Thanks for reading and join us tomorrow where there will be some more winners and losers."
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Terry Edwards AND Frankie Gavin ought to be thoroughly ashamed of themselves for letting down Team GB.
If you were unable to make the weight BEFORE you elected to go to the training camp, then you just should not have gone. Another has lost the chance to compete in the games because of this selfishness.
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@JackMcMac
"First of all I wouldn't refer to Kerry Kayes as a 'slimming guru', she couldn't even keep an Olympian athelete at a decent weight."
Kerry Kayes is a man. He was denied access to Gavin at Macau so the responsibility attributable to him for all of this has to be put into context. It sounds to me like the impact of a new training regime on Gavin's weight wasn't factored into the strategy to make weight - an oversight by both the boxer and the team.
I take Woodhall's point that, so to speak, 'you just make the weight', but it's also true to say that you only make the weight if the weight loss strategy leading towards the tournament has been right. Gavin should have been as close as possible to the weight a number of weeks ago (given that he has to remain 'on weight' throughout the tournament). The team should have known well in advance whether that kind of plateau was going to be possible.
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Post 16 Moutarde. Frankie lives in Erdington in Birmingham and I can confirm there is both a drive through McDonalds and a KFC in Erdington (both on the Birmingham Road if anyone feels peckish).
I doubt very much that he has been in either recently as the local press have been following him on an almost weekly basis over the last six months.
From all of the pictures I have seen of him in the press there has not been an ounce of fat on him. I think the most likely cause of the problem with the weight is a combination of two effects.
Firstly the simple fact that many young men continue to grow, develop and muscle up between the ages of 18 to 21 and secondly that as his training has been stepped up to reach a physical peak that extra muscle has been put on as a natural reaction to increased exercise.
Everything said in the room is conjecture but I don't think anyone who either knows him or has had any dealings with him locally could have been under any impression other than he was 100% committed to taking part in the Olympics.
Perhaps we should all wait to hear from the man himself when he gets back to the UK.
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At least he does not need to waste time thinking up a "stage name" for his professional career. He will be forever known as Frankie "FATBOY" Gavin.
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To be honest, I think Edwards and the rest of his crew should shoulder most of the blame here. Anybody who has been following Frankie knows he's been finding it increasingly diffcult to make the lightweight limit over the past year so he shouldn't have been entered for it.
Amateur boxing in this country is a complete shambles. It looks incresingly likely that Audley Harrison was right about Edwards.
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So basically we were being greedy. Instead of picking the best of the two fighters at the same weight, we asked one to lose weight and risk injury just so we could stand a chance of winning in both sections.....
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Having fought all year at Light Welterweight, it seems to me (as a non-boxer) that it was always going to be difficult to make Lightweight for the olympics.
That aside, I remember as a young adult going from being a lean, healthy Light Welterweight, to a lean, healthy Light Heavyweight between the ages of 17 and 20, without making any changes to my lifestyle.
Bodies change naturally as you get older and by the time I was 21, there was no way in hell I was ever going to be a healthy Light Welterweight again no matter how hard I might have wanted to be.
Which I didn't.
:o)
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I do not particularly wish to pass comment on his article but having just seen the draw can't help but feel the brits have been stiched up, not just here but across the board. Look also how hard a draw the Brits have got in badminton,judo and tennis as well.
I may be paronoid but is there a pre 2012 conspiracy here.
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I think the idiotic comments of levdavidovich are diverting the conversation away from the interesting article.
It is disappointing that he hasn't made the weight and whatever the reason, I'm sure the BOA will investigate. I'm sure if Frankie Gavin had any realistic chance of making the weight without damaging his health and was in the right frame of mind, he would have done so - after all, as others have already pointed out, it is likely to affect his future prospects (at least in the early years).
If he was at risk of damaging his health or he wasn't in the right frame of mind because of his Mrs being pregnant, then absolutely its the right thing to do. Yes it's disappointing for us Brits who hope to see lots of medals, but it's no different to seeing lottery money spent on an athlete who then gets injured (assuming he's not been visiting KFC every day and deliberately ignoring the advice of his trainer/nutritionist etc - which I'm sure is not the case).
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It seems to me that some people probably goofed up on the old kilos vs pounds conversion. That's probably why Gavin ended up 1.3 kg heavier than he should have been. It reminds me of the Mars landing goof up a few year back. This is equally hilarious !
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In terms of loosing weight, for most people, this means they want to loose body fat. There is however a certain amount of body fat that is essential for wellbeing. For the majority of people this lower limit is not an issue though!
For men, I think the lower limit is around 5% of body weight, for women the lower limit is higher - somewhere around 8-12% I think? It differs between people but everybody has a limit in terms of body fat which if they go below impacts their performance and health.
So, if he is already at the lower limit in terms of body fat, the only thing he can loose is muscle or water.
Loosing muscle mass - probably not great in terms of strength etc. for a boxer.
Loosing water - obviously not great in terms of dehydration either.
Also, loosing muscle is fairly long term I think since you have to wait for the muscle to "atrophy."
From what I read, it sounds that the lad has only been training full time since he got the lottery money and as a result, has put on a lot of muscle which has made making the weight so hard.
Ricky Hatton isn't the same case since he is putting on body fat between fights but when he looses this, he doesn't have problems in terms of muscle weight. Although didn't I read he had problems in terms of being heavy enough when fighting up weight recently?
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3lb's over ? with the heat and hummidity out there as an athlete or so he claims surely he can waist that no bother
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"3lb's over ? with the heat and hummidity out there as an athlete or so he claims surely he can waist that no bother"
Good point Inherent. It's clearly very easy indeed, but they've overlooked this obvious fact. Clever of you to notice.
They probably left the dehummiddiffier on by mistake, do you reckon?
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£25000 ANNUAL PAYMENT?!
FOR WHAT?!
ABOSLOUTLEY NOTHING. HE HASN'T EVEN WON ANYTHING YET! CLEANERS ARE NOT EVEN PAID HALF THAT FOR A FULL TIME WEEK!
IS THE LOTTERY FUNDING SYSTEM A COMPLETE DISGRACE?
JUST ASK ALEX BOGDANOVIC!
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The lottery funding should be used to good benefit. Firstly I think the support staff employed by lottery money i.e. lottery funded nutritionists and trainers employed to support Frankie should be called to account - its ludicrous that at the 11th hour Kerry Kayes was called in to try and sort out what they didnt do.
Secondly - I think blaming the athlete is a cop out - Im sure Frankie wouldnt have deliberately ended up at an Olympic Games to so publicly not make weight. Why didnt the lottery funded nutritionists at the English Institute of Sport who were out at Macau also do something sooner?
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Sorry to say this, but the chavs always bottle it, don't they?
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From what I have heard and read Gavin had trained hard and it wasnt a case of not pushing himself hard enough.
Over the years it has been shown that serious injuries and even death occur when fighters become weight drained because of the battle against the scales.
Boxing is an already dangerous sport but over the last two decades the number of ring deaths has been cut dramatically by taking a more common sense attitude to problems like these rather than the old timers methods of sweating that last few pounds off in a sauna.
Do we really want to go back to the 1970s and before when death and brain injury were a regular occurence?
That way will only lead to the sport being banned.
The health of an athlete has always got to come over and above anything else, even an Olympic Gold medal.
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from what I've read about it there's a 'story' once all the legal stuff is done going to come out of this as Gavin was always more interested in a career in the pro' ranks
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So much to comment on, Matt you are without a doubt the least informed and poorly presented sports commentator in the UK. Are you happy with the amount we are paying you to dumb down like this?
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One quite simple explanation here the guy is young and still growing so as just outgrown the weight, simple as. why all the controversy . Maloney and woodhall need to get a grip I know they are dissapointed as we all are but ya carn't really blame anyone its just nature. They couldn't put him at light welter because we had another guy at thta weight. so what do they do try and get him to lightweight when is body is growing and saying no. Anyone who thinks the lad as anything to be ashamed of or as the prat maloney said had not shown conviction and dedication want their unenlightened heads feeling. The lad said himself that gold medalists dictate thier own terms in the pro's and Im sure he as worked is ass off stuck to the regime given totally but in the end nature won out. So to frank maloney and woodhall I will say this. Get a grip and stop letting your emotions get the better of you and try to keep it objective!
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