- 28 Jul 08, 12:32 PM
Graham Gooch once described playing against Australia as being like a "fart competing with thunder".
An entire generation of English cricketers will know exactly what the Essex legend meant and it's a sentiment many British rugby league players could sympathise with too.
You see, Australia is quite good at cricket and rugby, particularly when they play the "mother country". If you have ever met an Australian you will know this already - they tend to point it out - but what you might not realise is just how keen the rivalry has become across Olympic sports.
So much so that it is time to open a new front in the battle for sporting supremacy; step aside Warnie, move over Gladiators, let the new Ashes commence.
But before we fire the starter's pistol, let's see the scores on the doors.
In the head-to-head medal tally contest Britain leads the series 15-10 but has lost 10 of the last 15.
Much like the cricket, the rivalry has seen periods of domination by one side or the other.
Pre-WWII, it's all Britain and we win again on home turf in 1948. The Aussies finally get on the board in 1952 and then win the next five in a row, only to have a stinker at Montreal in 1976 and let us in for four wins on the bounce.
Australia step up a gear in 1992, take advantage of our Montreal moment in 1996, ram home their advantage in Sydney and maintain the good vibes in 2004.
Which almost brings us up to date: almost but not quite, because the intervening years have seen two important but related developments.
First, London won the right to host the 2012 Games, instantly raising the profile and ambitions of Olympic sport in the country. And second, Team GB started to do much better in the various world championships of the respective Olympic sports.
So much better, in fact, the Aussies have noticed.
And a recent forecast by Italian statistician Luciano Barra has the team from dear old Blighty taking Australia's fourth place in the table in Beijing, pushing them down to sixth.
With a Michael Phelps-driven US swimming juggernaut expected to reduce Australia's traditional haul in pool, and Team GB tipped to take a big slice of the pie at the velodrome, there is little doubt the gap between the two rivals will shrink in China.
So how has this come about? What's the secret of Britain's resurgence?
Well, the Australians think they know. They're certain it's down to two simple reasons: money and Australians.
It all goes back to our Waterloo in 1996. Just as the Aussies came home from Montreal and said "never again, let's try the East German way (but without the drugs)", our failure in Atlanta led to a massive reappraisal of how we funded and managed top-level sport.
After considerable consultation between government, the national federations and anybody else with an opinion, it was decided we should scrap the existing mishmash at the top and...erm...copy exactly what the Australians did after 1976.
So better talent identification, a more professional approach to training, lots more sports science and plenty of foreign expertise. And then throw more National Lottery money at it.
Come 2005 (and the start of the big push for London glory), that lottery lolly was topped up with treasury money - and it was being allocated, managed and spent by a sizeable population of ex-pat Aussies.
Well, you know what they say about imitation.
Not that they're feeling too flattered about it on the other side of the world. Recent months have seen a number of leading figures in Australian sport sound distinctly crook about the growing threat.
Last summer, Swimming Australia had to move fast to stop British Swimming from poaching its head coach, Alan Thompson, to replace another Aussie Bill Sweetenham. No matter, thought the Brits, we'll have Michael Scott instead.
A few months later, the Australian Olympic Committee announced new financial incentives to encourage its athletes to stay ahead of Team GB.
"Our arch-rival Great Britain has made dramatic advances at our expense," warned AOC president John Coates, pointing the finger accusingly at our gambling-derived wealth.
Coates was back at it a few weeks ago. "I think our sports are in need of a significant boost of funds," he said, whilst rattling the biscuit tin aggressively at the Australian government.
Professor Peter Fricker, the director of the Australian Institute of Sport (the "gold medal factory" we so reverentially ripped off), was another to sound the alarm.
"It's fair to say the Brits have watched what we have been doing over many years and taken all the best elements of that and put them in their own system," said Fricker.
And then last week AOC director of sport Fiona de Jong spoke the unspeakable.
"It is going to be tough (to maintain recent standards)," she shuddered.
"I believe the money the Brits are throwing into their athletes makes them a real threat to us on the medal tally."
But just when you thought a chink was appearing in the armour-plated self-confidence of the Australian Ashes warrior, track cycling star Brett Lancaster came out with this little beauty: "I know a lot of people are talking about the Poms, and they've certainly put some runs on the board.
"But remember: nothing's better for an Aussie than beating the Poms."
And then, to reassure you all was right with the world once more, Australian cycling coach Shayne Bannan (even their names fit the bill) lobbed a Fergie-esque mind game grenade for good measure.
"I think you'll see us push the British, who've really raised the bar in the sport," he said.
"But when you win nine (gold medals) at the world championships (as Team GB did in March), there's a bit of pressure there, isn't there? So we'll see how they go."
Unsurprisingly, British athletes and officials have been a bit more circumspect on the subject (although noted Ashes warrior and current British Olympic Association performance guru Sir Clive Woodward has made his feelings on the rivalry fairly clear, he even counts the size of the two teams).
But they have not been above a bit of Douglas Jardine-style skulduggery, according to the Aussies, that is.
The first real salvo in the Beijing battle was fired when the Modern Pentathlon Association of Great Britain asked the Court of Arbitration for Sport to kick out an Aussie qualifier and admit Britain's Nick Woodbridge instead.
Alex Parygin, a former gold medallist for his native Kazakhstan in 1996, thought he had qualified for the 2008 Games when he won the Oceania Championships last year.
We disagreed, pointing out that he had failed to attain the required number of points for Olympic eligibility at the event in Tokyo (which was hardly surprising as the show jumping had to be cancelled due to an outbreak of equine influenza) and at three subsequent events in Europe.
The Lausanne-based court agreed and gave Woodbridge, the next highest ranked athlete and 2004 junior world champion, Parygin's place. Cue barely stifled celebrations from the British camp and considerable carping from the Aussies.
Who knows, the modern pentathlon may well take on a sixth discipline between the Brits and the Aussies in Beijing, bare-knuckle boxing.
But will Woodbridge win the medal that sees us reclaim the Olympic Ashes? Perhaps, but I don't think so. He's more of a 2012 prospect and so is the rest of the team.
It will be close between us next month but I suspect we'll lose a few rowing and sailing medals to the Chinese and the Aussies will do enough in the pool to keep their hands on the urn. London, however, is another matter. Roll on 2012.
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The Aussies will do us- by means of a front crawl or doggy paddle!
But remember man wasn't invented to swim that is why early life escaped from the sea hundreds of million years ago!
;)
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Is the Ashes not between England and Australia or have I missed something
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G'day daviddoonunder, nope, you haven't missed anything, the original Ashes are indeed between England and Australia. But that England team is selected by the England and Wales Cricket Board (hence Glamorgan playing in the county championship) and has had numerous Welshmen in it over the years. It has also had a few Scots, including the man alluded to in the story, Douglas Jardine.
And that's just the cricket. Rugby league's Ashes series is between GB and Australia.
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Although all of the 23 players currently listed to the GB Rugby League side are English so it makes you wonder why we still play under a GB banner.
Back to the article though, we have a few medal hopes in track and field but most of our chances come in the other sports and it's nice to see us spread our chances across so many disciplines (for me the track and field section isn't that interesting especially as most of the high profile events will be under the suspicion of drug cheats, I prefer to see sports you don't normally get the chance to). The Aussies will get most of their haul in swimming as usual and they normally get enough from there to stay ahead of us. It'll be closer than recent games just depends how well the Aussies do in the pool but we're going to get a few of our own in the velodrome.
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bring on the new ashes!
we can beat the aussies now and WILL beat them in london 2012.
its about time we reminded them that we are in charge, that football (our national sport) is more important than rugby, cricket and swimming put together and that we will finish higher than them in the next few olympics at least.
bring on the games!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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This is a bit of a joke in all honesty, no Scot really cares about the Ashes...
Just seems like the writer of the blog is wanting a pop at the Aussies and using sport in which to do it by.
4 years ago, Aussie swimming hit a trough, Thorpe had retired and Hackitt was injured and we just so happened to be hitting a peak. British swimming has gone downhill since then, the US will win the most medals and beat Australia who, in turn, will beat the UK.
I would like to be proved wrong and will cheer on any British athlete, in or out the pool, but I think that will be what'll happen.
I hope we beat them in the velodrome as that wee Aussie nyaff came out saying they'll pump us, so I hope Hoy gets his finger out and helps tan them!
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Have to agree with daviddoonunder Matt, this grates me a bit, the ashes is a cricket contest between England and Australia. Somewhere along the line any contest between GB teams and Australia has started to be called an ashes series.
The Aussies don't seem to know the difference between GB and England anyway:
For example in your article Shayne Bannan is quoted as saying "I think you'll see us push the British, who've really raised the bar in the sport,", however, if you click on the Brett Lancaster link Shayne Bannan is actually quoted as saying "I think you'll see us push the English, who've really raised the bar in the sport,"
At this rate the next Lions tour to Australia will be an ashes series. It seems to me that the media over here give the impression that the Aussies just can't stand getting beaten, the English in particular.....
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joshf33 needs to grow up a bit, football invented by the Scots and is the major sport in the UK but is not more important. It is over-glamorised, over-paid and over-rated 90% of the time.
Top swimmers/athletes/cyclists have to train umpteen hours a week to get to the top, footballers play well for a couple of games, make their trillions then retire at 25...amazine eh?
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*amazing even
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why are we worrying about australia in particular here? the ashes series in cricket and league are between england/gb and australia, the olympics involves virtually every country in the world.
if our only aim is to finish above australia on the table then it's pretty short-sighted. since when has australia been the benchmark for olympic sports? america, russia and now china, yes, but the rest are way behind.
for all their admirable talent, the aussies don't need their insufferable egos massaging further by us worrying whether we're going to finish above them on a medal table when neither will get a sniff of the top.
the time to worry about australia is when we play them at cricket, union or league. otherwise they are just another country trying to stop us winning.
as brett lancaster says: "nothing's better for an Aussie than beating the Poms."
i don't think we need reciprocate.
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The BBC is getting really desperate with its promotion of the Olympics.
England - Australia battles occur in cricket and rugby. Trying to grab the noteriety of those battles for the Olympics is really silly.
The olympics is just two weeks of drug-feulled gold medals, some truly amateur performances and some posh British people sailing and rowing boats and riding horses.
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Hi voiceofreasoning, I can assure you, I'm not having a pop at the Aussies at all. I have nothing but admiration for their sporting success and I wholeheartedly admit that any turnaround in Olympic fortunes we have acheived (and will hopefully build on) has, to a large degree, happened because we copied the Australian Institute of Sport model.
etienne123, you're slightly stating the obvious there by pointing out the fact the Olympics are contested by the entire world and the US, China and Russia will make up the top three. But the Aussies have finished fourth at the last two OGs...an amazing result for a nation of only 22 million. For me, far more than their cricket/rugby results, that makes Australia the world's top sporting nation.....although the Spanish might have a shout this year. Now if we're going to reach our target of 4th in the table in 2012, we're going to have to knock the Aussies off their perch, as Sir Alex Ferguson nearly said about Liverpool. And what's wrong with contests within a contest? The Commonwealth Games are contested by 71 teams but the most exciting bit (for me, anyway) is the England v Australia and/or England v other home nation match-ups.
Dave_Scotland, fair enough re: the Ashes being England v Australia as far as you're concerned, but there are plenty of Welshmen who would disagree. As for the growth of the Ashes tag, yep, but it's the Aussies themselves who started this "New Ashes" talk. And you're right, I did change Bannan's quote but only to save his blushes....there are plenty of non-English riders in our cycling team. I also changed Fiona de Jong's quote as it made almost no sense in its original form.
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Well, joshf33, maybe football is more important than rugby, cricket, and swimming. I believe that Australia won the last football game against England 1:3 .
So, I guess Australia holds the football Ashes.
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'Although all of the 23 players currently listed to the GB Rugby League side are English so it makes you wonder why we still play under a GB banner.'
Am I the right in thinking this, but didn't the GB rubgy league side play their last match when they won the test series against NZ? I believe it will be England who play in future contests.
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And Kerblammo, I believe it is England who hold the rugby union ashes. Aussie teletubbies and all that.
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Scotland don't have a rivalry with Australia.
Please stop confusing Britain with England.
And folk wonder why Scots complain about the BBC being biased.
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Australia are leading mainly due to the disproportionate number of swimming medals. There are three races for each distance. It will obviously boost their medal tally. I would be interested in seeing the head to head without Swimming in it.
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Hi levdavidovich,
You're not a fan of the Olympics, are you? Or me, for that matter?!?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/profile/?userid=1763634
Fair enough. But I'm not sure why this a desperate attempt to drum up publicity for the Olympics....as if the Olympics really need me as publicity man. I'm sorry to have to tell you this but you're going to have to really try to avoid them for most of August. And then in 2012 you'll probably have to move to Mongolia to avoid them.
As I've already pointed out, it's not me trying to grab any of the cricket/rugby league Ashes' notoriety, it's already happening, and it's happening more Down Under than here. I'm all for it, though. Nothing wrong with sporting rivalries at all, as far as I'm concerned. And there's also nothing wrong with using another nation's performances as a benchmark for your own.
As Louisa May Alcott once wrote:
"Rivalry adds so much more to the charms of one's conquests."
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Thats because Scotland never wins anything and always gets completely pumelled by Australia at anything they compete against them in. So its a nice excuse to say that you don't have a rivalry with the Aussies as it would be embarrassing if you said you did.
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getinthebath - that's fine, I remember you got us 10:12 last time. Good result for you guys, pity about the final. However, I'm running with josh's claim that "football is more important than rugby, cricket and swimming put together".
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Goodness - someone has a bit of fun when writing and people start pilorying him. Get a grip! Matt's article is amusing, vaguely funny and in line with a 'us versus the world' mentality that is meant to enstil some degree of pride and force behind the GB team.
Live and let live!
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I suppose it depends on your perspective. Football by numbers is the biggest sport in the world and I imagine more people watch it than rugby, cricket (even taking into account the India viewership) and swimming combined. At the same time, a lot of people think footballers are overpaid show ponies. And as England have not won the WC for over 40 years, Josh can't really argue about anything!
As for rugby - pity about losing to England in the 2nd successive world cup.
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At 1:34pm on 28 Jul 2008, daviddoonunder wrote:
"Is the Ashes not between England and Australia or have I missed something"
Well its the England and Wales cricket board and if there was taleneted enough Scotish or Northern Irish player for the England cricket team i'm sure they would play as well.
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Look,
Australia has historically lacked confidence in itself as a distinctive nation.
It still feels the need after all these years to assert its identity. Given that it does not have that much going for it in a cultural or economic
sense, and given that its climate is now threatening to turn the country into a dustbowl,it puts considerable effort and money into sport.
Its touching that Australians still feel that they express a distinctive identity when they outdo the former Imperial power in sport and we should look on that with affectionate,amusement and tolerance as one does with a little brother acting big!
One should note,though,that as britain finally focusses seriously on sport,Any lead enjoyed by Australia in this respect can only be short.
Britain has outperformed Australia in major sporting world championships in 2007 and 2008 and I note that Evans choked again in he Tour de France and that no Aussie won a stage of th race-let alone four-and Craig Mottram failed again in the Emsley Carr mile ,finishing behind new British middle distanc star,Any Baddely.
Are there any australan boxing talents? How will Australia do in the Ashes in 2009 when Simon Jones returns?
I predict a crisis of national identity and esteem in Australia as their much vauntd claims to sportng excellence begin to disentegrate.
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Matt,
Not a bad article and here I was expecting cliched Australian bashing - not that I mind particularly, but a decent article that highlights the ambitions of the British who have improved in many sports.
Australia does do pretty well in sport - massive part of the Australian culture and ethos - with the largest part - beating England.
We love the Scots though!
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Matt
A good article! Just a bit of fun.
Forget about the Scots with a chip and the Aussies with the haugtiness.
Maybe they should be on the same Olympic Team! ;)
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And here was me thinking that the Olympics was about taking part, rather than winning or losing...
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Agree with TheEarl... good tongue-in-cheek article.
Don't worry about the replies. Three things are certain in life:
* Death
* Taxes
* Scots dusting off the chip on their shoulder and moaning at any opportunity about English-bias on the BBC (even when it's utterly irrelevant).
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Oh, and Archleftback - Cadel finished second in the Tour after coming back from a a crash during Stage Nine. It showed guts and heart, while Cavendish pulled out of the Tour when the Alps came in to view.
If that is choking, then choke on, Cadel, because you have done Australia proud :-)
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Terrific article.
Brit/Aus rivalry is one of the most good natured and exciting in sport.
Wasn't that interested before now[especially as I will be touring Scotland and Yorkshire while it is on].
Have a feeling I'm going to take a bit of verbal battering when they hear my accent in the pubs over there.
I'm sure this will improve the experience for all of us.
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How many stage wins did Cadel win ? Maybe if he tried to win a stage apart from the TT he could have one Tour.
Cavendish is the real deal. His objective was to win one stage and he won 4. Mission complete. Cadel was to win GC!!
As for all this Scots with chips. Have you ever stopped yourself and asked why?
Suggest you read "Heroes, Villains and Velodromes: Chris Hoy and Britain's Track Cycling Revolution ". I think you will find a huge Scottish contribution behind what is happening to British Cycling.
A bit more significant that "there are plenty of non-english in our cycling team".
Scots drive to beat the english is a bit like the aussie motivation.
However, personally speaking, when we are Team GB I'm as passionate about British success including pummeling a few Aussies if possible.
We may have less chips if our contribution was recognised and more Scots would feel British!
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Thanks for the article, a bit of fun as some have mentioned and why would us Aussies take offence?
We enjoy giving you stick and you enjoy giving it straight back and usually it's well intentioned.
Some take it a bit too seriously like archleftback who writes like a very unhappy person.
Also, don't forget there is another sport in Oz that is bigger too, like Football is in the UK.
I still think though the Ashes was about a burnt set of bails and an urn so it should really only apply to cricket. Bring on 2009 and hopefully you do have Simon Jones fit as he is a great player and has been sorely missed and maybe.. just maybe Warnie will come out of retirement... please Warnie!!!!
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AussieinDubs:
You write that Cadel 'came second in the tour'
Mate,his prime task was to winit,inspite of obstales and setbacks.
You're in danger of celebrating failure!
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Lol - cue the SNP (stuck up northern punks) scott's blah blah, we're not british comments.
BTW, it's technically England and Wales in the cricket team even though it's called the ECB!
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Nothing but swimming medals at Athens for the Australian team-except of course for , rowing, shooting, basketball, hockey, diving, Canoeing, baseball, softball, Triathlon, archery, Athletics and, tennis medals. Gold in five different events.
GB medals in Athletics, rowing, Equestrian, swimming, sailing, badminton, modern Pentathlon, archery, boxing and canoeing. Gold in 5 different events.
Take the 15 swimming medals out of the games and Australia has 34 medals-ten of them goal.
Given a lot of the posters bang on how they only win swimming medals, maybe they should look again.
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Good article. Very interesting and well researched!
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thought the boxers would of got a mention, our whole squad which is a full squad, all have a chance to medal and most are faves to gold medal
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The Aussies are British anyway.
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archleftback,
you said no aussie won a stage at the 2008 tour de france...who won stage 15?....has Simon Gerrans changed nationalities?
c'mon....keep the rivalry going.....we love it!!!
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PunkinDrublic74'
Sorry about that.I overlooked Gerrans stage win in admiration for Cavendish's four stage wins in his first tour de france.
Am I right in thinking that this is unprecedented for a first time tour entrant?
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Chas68,
I think that you may exaggerate the charm and good humour content of the 'stick' Aussie contributors to 606 employ;have you read Wombat2's contributions to the debate?
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#3 - couldn't care less how many Scots once played for England.
The fact remains that the Ashes is a trophy competed for between Australia and England. That's it.
But hey, I guess it's no surprise you think Great Britain = England. The rest of the England-based BBC staff do.
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Lets face it - swimming medals are a bit of joke. I mean how can you have a sport where someone is capable of winning 4 or 5 medals in different races unless there is no discernable difference between the disciplines. Its like having a 100m, 110m, 120m, 130m and 140m sprint, and then proclaiming Usain Bolt the greatest athlete of all time if he wins 5 golds.
For a fair medal table, four swimming golds should equal one real gold. That should even things up.
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? when has Great Britain ever been any competition at the Olympics for Australia? I am sure the aussies will not be worried about beating us? comparing is not even worth it.. they have been in the top 4 of the world for the past two olympics... we were 10th in the last 2 olympics. Oh and in barcelona Australia were 7th and we were 36th with just 1 gold medal? They only have 30 million people in comparison to our 50 million so it is very sad.
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#40 archleftback
Cavendish is a very talented rider, but he's no Eddie Merckx.
Merckx won six stages on his first Tour (1969), together with the yellow jersey, green jersey , polka dot jersey, and team classification. If there had been a white jersey then, he would have won that as well.
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44 mrjasler23
? when has Great Britain ever been any competition at the Olympics for Australia? I am sure the aussies will not be worried about beating us? comparing is not even worth it.. they have been in the top 4 of the world for the past two olympics... we were 10th in the last 2 olympics. Oh and in barcelona Australia were 7th and we were 36th with just 1 gold medal? They only have 30 million people in comparison to our 50 million so it is very sad.
.........................
nearly right on every point
1 Read the original article, Britain has finished higher than Australia on the medal table in 15 of 25 Games
2 Australians do obsess about doing better than Britain
3 One gold medal in Barcelona? Sally Gunnell and Linford Christie for starters. Steve Redgrave was there as well ...
4 Australia has 20 million people
5 Britain has 60 million people
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I would like all the poms to know that while we do love it when we beat a team or individual from GB, its not all we care about. As an athlete you want to be the best, and no matter what sport we play here, there will be bound to be a couple of poms in there as well. Yes we would love to beat them, but we would love to be number 1 even more.
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As a Scot, I cannot help but feel embarrassed when I read most of these posts. Why are so many Scots so bitter? Cant we accept that there are far more people following English sport than Scottish, so the BBC has to devote more time to English sport? Get the chip of your shoulders and accept the facts - the BBC is catering to the majority of its audience.
And to all those pedants moaning that the Ashes is a cricket thing, or and England-Australia thing, chill out. "The Ashes" has become a generic term for any competition between an English or British team and Australia. Granted Scotland vs. Australia would never be called the Ashes, but why is that such an issue?? What is it with the British and constantly wanting to find fault.
Matt's written a funny, probably deliberately slightly provocative article to get the blood flowing before the Olympics - competitiion within competition is a great thing, it only serves to make things more exciting. Rivalries are what make sport worth watching - but the most important thing: rivalries should be left on the sport's field, and all should meet for a drink afterwards. That's the essence of sport and the Olympics.
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My initial thoughts were, well-written, pacy, I can see what he's trying to do..
Then I read the comments and was confronted by that most distasteful of British traits.... Xenophobia.
Ok so fair enough the Ashes link is a tenuous one at best - and Mr. Slater would have been wise to steer clear. The ashes refers in reality to the cricket and nothing else. No matter what wally has attributed it to other sports in the past. The ignorance and/or stupidity of others is no excuse for our own.
However there is clearly a rivalry between England and Australia that should be acknowledged. Too many of my fellow Scots are willing to make it all about us. It isn't - there are 31 Scottish athletes out of an Olympic team of 300+. We make up roughly 10% and coverage of our involvement should be reflective of that. However as all the aussies will attest, there is NO latent rivalry between us and there never will be unless we are competing directly.
The tired lines about Scots with chips on their shoulder or the sassenach BBC bears little relvance to the fact that WE - Great Britain - have a very real chance of our best Olympic medal haul in living memory. That Mr. Slater chose to use the Aussies in an attempt to create a spark is by-the-by.
Let's all, Welsh, Northern Irish, English and Scots, support whoever is wearing the Union Jack and be done with petty xenophobic drivel.
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I'm British and English and used to genuinly enjoy watching any British sportsperson or team doing well (unless, of course it was at the expense of England). However, the inferiority complex of Scots and the constant whineing of many of them has become so tiresome that I no longer feel this way about their sporting teams. It is correct to say that Scotland does not have a rivalry in a major sport with Australia. They think they do with England but you have to be able to compete first to have a rivalry. For football I guess the rivals would be Norway or Iceland, for rugby Italy or Japan and for cricket, maybe Canada or something. Good at curling though.
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So what you're saying FandF, is that because of a few idiots taking the hump you'll no longer support a Scotsman if he represents Britain?
I guess the canoeing/kayking team will be crying themselves to sleep tonight having lost your support.
P.s. Croatia and Russia. Italy and France. You decide.
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Unfortunately you British have no chance against the Aussies. Our weather during our Winter is more pleasant then your Summer. We are born to be outdoors and participate in sporting events all year round. Also don't forget the last time we played you in football (Soccer) we beat you at Upton Park 3 - 1. You have too many South Africans in your cricket team. You can't even beat South Africa on home soil. You are kidding yourselves if you are going to get more Gold medals in Beijing than us Aussies. PS don't forget your population is 4 times higher then Oz which means you should get 4 times the amount of medals! In poker terms lol (laugh out loud).
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As a Brit living in Australia this is a breath of fresh air and I am glad this discussion is happening in UK. Brits here are constantly being "pom-bashed" and as a result I now celebrate any English or British win loudly and at great length. The Australians are obsessed with their own sports men and women to the exclusion of the rest of the world. If an Australian is doing well in an early heat at the Olympics the TV coverage will switch from a final where there are no Australians, but lots of the World's best, to the lowly heat. At a BBQ with Australain friends during the Athens Olympics we were forced to watch the dissected highlights of the diving competition where a Brit beat the Australian and were told that everyone could see the judges had made a mistake and the Australian guy was the superior diver.
Another example of their obsession with their own sports people, recently on the news they reported that an Australian was third in the US open, no mention of who might be first or second because no one is interested! You can only begin to imagine what it was like here during the Tour de France.
"Go Team GB"
Other than sport, it is actually quite nice living here!!!
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I forgot to say also that after the Athens Olympics the Australians re-calculated the medal table. Someone worked out the number of medals as a proportion of the total population of the countries concerned and declared themselves the "real" winners because Australia had the highest proportion of medals for the size of the population!!!!! Do other countries do this?
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poker champion.
If I were you I'd stick to a pastime where you can sit on your a888 all day, as you know little about any other sports!
Though you do have the weather which should encourage an even better sporting pedigree!
You mention the 3-1 defeat at Upton Park- the only time in your history you beat us and the day you played a combined English team - made up of new caps and journeyman on their last swansong! Shows a lot that we had a virtual 11 man substitute at 2nd half- shows what we felt about the opposition. Teach us a lesson to take you more seriously next time.
As for the cricket, the Safa series is not over yet and remember we beat them over their last time. These SA cricketers are often born or their parents are from the UK.> They now live here. Anyway we won't take lectures from OZ who pinch South Sea islander rugby players both Union and League for fun! Still they don't help you when it comes to playing England at the RWC.
We may not beat you in the gold medal front at Beijing- the weather will favour you and you do like swimming! Still we'll see next time round!
O' I love this banter.
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I have just checked and it was actually the Australain Bureau of Statistics who recalculated it (a government agency no less) and they actually came in third with one Gold Medal for each 1,186,000 of the population behind Norway (one Gold Medal for each 910,000 of its population) and The Bahamas ( one Gold Medal for each 317,000 of its population). GB were way down in 29th place with a gold for every 6,602 people. Maybe this is why there are strict controls on immigration here to keep the medal tally up per head of population!!
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HKArab
"Croatia and Russia. Italy and France - you decide"
Well, at the moment, Croatia and Russia are both considerably better than a very poor France side, and as both did as well or better than Italy at Euro 08 then I decide Croatia and Russia are the harder draw right now.
Does that answer your question?
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'Unfortunately you British have no chance against the Aussies. Our weather during our Winter is more pleasant then your Summer. We are born to be outdoors and participate in sporting events all year round. Also don't forget the last time we played you in football (Soccer) we beat you at Upton Park 3 - 1. You have too many South Africans in your cricket team. You can't even beat South Africa on home soil. You are kidding yourselves if you are going to get more Gold medals in Beijing than us Aussies. PS don't forget your population is 4 times higher then Oz which means you should get 4 times the amount of medals! In poker terms lol (laugh out loud).'
Yawn. I think the Aussies will finish higher in the medal table but in the usual Aussie ignorance, you have no idea how far Britiain has come since 1996 and also probably have no idea how our cyclists, rowers and sailors have been topping world championship medal tables in their respective sports leading up to the games. You know I loved the last rugby world cup, you lot shouted about how you would do this and that - we then proceeded to beat you! I think Aussies should learn to crow only when they have won and not beforehand as you always look like pillocks after you lose.
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PokerChampion
Isn't global warming turning much of Australia into an ecological disaster area?
'Australia the Lucky country'?
Not any more mate!
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Etienne 123,
One cant really assess the sporting worth of a nation by comparing respective population size.
It has more to do with resources channelled into sport.
Australia defines itself as a nation by achievement in sport and since 1976 at least has poured money into sport;until quit recently Britain has not.
The dramatic improvement in British sporting achievement since 1996-11 golds at Sydney compared with 1 at Atlanta-shows what British sport can achieve when resources are mobilised effectively.
If resources contitinue to be mobilised effectively-or more effectively- Australia's lead over Britain in terms of olympic sport can only be temporary
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RidRed,
Thanks for the information.
Do you think that Cavenish might have emulated Merckx if he had completed the Tour;Merckx did not have olympic participation to distract him from concentration on the Tour.
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I thought it was an interesting article. I have long envied Australian sporting success, and the opportunity that we may be able to compete with them in terms of medals won, is very exciting.
A couple of points:
I think that we shouldn?t forget that sport should not just be purely about winning (I suppose I would say that being English!) But more about encouraging children to take part, get fit and mix with others of a similar age. After all, I wouldn?t want to see a similar regime in Britain to the one that is reported to be in place in China.
That said, it is good to see that at last, GB sport has excepted that it needed to change, and is now beginning to produce athletes who are capable of competing at the top of their sports. Sporting triumphs does help raise the spirit and pride of a nation, and it does hurt to see your country constantly losing.
voiceofreasoning - football invented by the Scots? My understanding is that, although people have been kicking various objects round for centuries, the game as it now known was invented in England. As were cricket, rugby league and union, squash, badminton (developed from the Indian game Poona), tennis, table tennis, baseball (as mentioned in Northanger Abbey), field hockey, snooker and darts. It is therefore a real shame that we are not very good at many of them.
Pokerchampion ? yes we do have some native South Africans in our cricket team (and lord knows we need them!). However, the inclusion of foreign-born talent in national sides is not a uniquely English or British trait. For example, if you refer back to the original article, it highlights the case of Alex Parygin. He wasn?t born in Australia, but has now qualified for and wishes to represent his new country. Also, have not both the All Blacks and the Australian RFU poached the best players from Fuji, Tonga and Samoa over the years? Additionally, the USA have always attracted talent from beyond it shores, and doesn?t seem to have a problem celebrating their achievements as their own.
Although it obviously does help to have a greater number of people from whom to choose your sporting heroes, and that for a relatively small population, Australia does do well at sport across the board, I have to agree with archleftback that you can?t really assess the sporting worth of a nation by comparing respective population size.
For example, if China won 299 medals from a possible 300 and the Bahamas won the remaining 1, this would still make the Bahamas the most successful sporting nation of the games. This would clearly be nonsense ? after all, each country can only enter a maximum of three individuals for the athletics events, and one team/individual in most of the others events (winning some events at the US trials is harder than winning Olympic gold). It is more to do with the money spent, the coaching and the identifying and nurturing of new talent from an early age ? something that Australia have known for a long time, and GB have finally realised.
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archleftback
sorry, mate, i wasn't making any point about population size and its relation to medal success. i was just pointing out a host of inaccuracies in an earlier post which trumpeted australia's "superiority' over britain.
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My mistake Etienne123,
aplogies
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Happygolucky30,
A thoughtfull article,if I may so.
But dont worry too much about current lack of British success at Cricket and Rugby
After all,its only 5 years since England won Rugby World Cup,only 1 year since they reache a second successive final in same competition, and ony four years since England won Ashes.
I think hat England's problems in these sports is lack of consistency rather than talent.
I wouldn't be astonished if England bounce back against South Africa tomorrow and beat Australia in Novembr Rugby Union test-as they did in Marselles in October 2007-and with Simon Jones fit,win back Ashes in 2009.
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Nice article, Matt, pleased to see the BBC publishing some passionate writing as opposed to the usual impartial and banal stuff we see from some of your colleagues. At the end of the day, any true English sports fan loves getting one over on the Aussies, albeit not as much as they do when they beat us, so rest assured that in watching out for the GB vs Oz medals table competition, you will not be alone. Even if I was stood in a fountain in Germany, having lost my wallet, wondering what to do next, there would still be a little part of me wondering when we will next beat Australia at sport! It?s healthy competition!
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Matt - great article and an interesting slant on what will surely be a US/China landslide (as per usual...) - at least something to keep to keep us interested till the final day now that we're no good at rowing any more.....
levdavidovitch - having read your posting history - really, does everything wind you up? You don't have to read this site you know, there are plenty of other websites out there for angry people....
Before I go, Matt - will there be Singing in Beijing?
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Bricklaned
No good at rowing anymore?
Didn't Britain win last two rowing world cups?
Or are you talking about vehement arguing rather than propelling boats through water?
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