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'Riots on the streets'

Nick Robinson | 12:20 UK time, Monday, 29 June 2009

An inadvertent glimpse this morning of what David Cameron fears and is preparing for.

David CameronHis own words at his news conference: "riots on the streets".

This is what he said would follow if the next government made public spending cuts having failed to prepare the public for them. And that is what he says the government is failing to do and used every word for dishonest other than "liar" to describe the prime minister.

It is also a glimpse of what Labour has been hoping for. They are counting on the fact that the public will come to associate cuts and their consequences with the Conservative party. They hope that, if the economy recovers before the next election, voters will regard cuts as ideological rather than based on economic necessity or good house-keeping.

Whoever correctly judges the public mood on this issue will hold the key to winning the next election.

Comments

Page 1 of 2

  • Comment number 1.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 2.

    The facts are

    Labour WILL have to make CUTS ..There are no two ways about this

    The fact they are playing games with the public and being utterly dishonest just to try and score political points from the Tories is vile beyond belief.

  • Comment number 3.

    "It is also a glimpse of what Labour has been hoping for. They are counting on the fact that the public will come to associate cuts and their consequences with the Conservative party."

    And what else is the BBC for, after all?

  • Comment number 4.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 5.

    On the Daily Politics Show today The Government Housing Minister refused to say the word 'cuts' in relation to Government plans in spite of being goaded on the matter a number of times. Both he and Mandelson this morning are talking of 'tough decisions' and 'prioritising' but no mention of cuts anywhere unless in reference to The Conservative policy. People will draw their own conclusions from what is now being increasingly referred to as sheer dishonesty.

  • Comment number 6.

    I remember seeing a debt programme some time ago and was amazed at how every debt ridden person thought they could keep spending as they were. I just look at Labour and think, oh deary me, those people are in charge of our country

  • Comment number 7.

    Cameron also said he'd given up on anything this government says.

    That's what's called judging the mood on the streets. Hands up those still in denial.

    The programme this government are now pursuing to the death is a scorched earth policy which in the few months they have left could damage this country in a permanent and irreparable way.

    The great ponzi schemes ending in total devastation for all concerned is probably as close an example as it gets.

    When someone like Cameron talks about 'Riots on the Streets' it's time everyone stood up and listened. You wanted candour and you got it.

  • Comment number 8.

    Nick,

    Hilary Benn stated last week that cuts are coming no matter what government we have so to plug this one is a pathetic attempt at Labour spin.

    Gordon Brown has been dishonest with the electorate every time he stood at the dispatch box delivering his budget.
    promising families he was being prudent and not risking their hard work and futures only to find his economy was built on eggshells.
    Only the gullable and stupid will believe anything the Labour say anymore.



  • Comment number 9.

    Forewarning the public that there are hard times to come and that public services are going to be affected owing to the madness of Brown is by far more beneficial than suggesting everything is ok. It is not ok and the lack of spending review by the government proves they are up against it.
    Your spin on this is remarkable though Nick - keep taking the tablets!

  • Comment number 10.

    Yes Cameron is right. The PM is incapable of telling the truth and can never admit to being wrong. Everyone, except him, can see that cuts are essential to avoid the country going bankrupt. More and more people now understand that the huge state pension crisis, kick started by Gordon Brown in 1997 when he attempted to destroy one of the best private pension schemes in the world, is unsustainable and no one can now expect to receive a final salary linked pension unless they are prepared to pay for it themselves.
    Middle England has been very quiet so far but I for one have had enough and am sick and tired of this lying deceitful government that thinks the solution to everything is to throw vast quantities of money at it. There will be a day of reckoning and the debt will have to be repaid. Bring on the General Election now or face the very real prospect of riots and worse, remember the French Revolution.

  • Comment number 11.

    disgusting.the bbc makes fox news look balanced and fair minded

  • Comment number 12.

    Done Mandleson proud this morning. Especially after Evan Davies couldn't get a straight answer out of him on 'Today' this morning regarding the cuts that will have to come after the election.

    Oh, and why postpone the spending revue until after the election, hoping for someone to clear up the mess that the present government is incapable of doing??????

  • Comment number 13.

    There are "riots on the streets" of most cities on a regular basis, usually fuelled by cheap alcohol and a complete contempt of anything resembling discipline, or law and order. After all, what do the "rioters" have to fear?

    I suspect that Dave is referring to mass riots, specifically in London, and aimed at our ghastly polticians. Understandably so. Why on earth would anyone accept that their livelihood should be removed from them by a collection of self-seeking, corrupt and discredited array of talking politicians?

    Dave can revert to the Thatcher strategy of the early '80s, designed specifically to deal with the miners: give the police a HUGE salary increase to get them on the side of government, then send in the cavalry.

    Alternatively, he can clear out his party of all of the trash, rebuild it with people of substance, merit, and a sense of public duty, and explain clearly to the public the reality of our awful economic situation, and what has to be done to remedy it.

    And, who knows, he might even win the next election on a wave of popular support, and behind an honest manifesto.

    But don't hold your breath.

  • Comment number 14.

    I'm afraid that I can't see what the Labour Party is up to as acceptable politics. Sure, defend your ideology, attack unjust criticism of your record, even gloss over the more controversial parts of it, but to brazenly abuse the trust that most ordinary people are desperate to place in their elected leaders is something that Labour should never, ever, be forgiven for.

    No matter that we live in an age of advertising, marketing and PR, politics, if it is to be of any value at all, must rise above these peddlars of inaccuracy, deception and untruth. Not immerse itself in it.

  • Comment number 15.

    I think Cameron is missing a trick here.

    If nuliebour continues to suggest they will not make cuts, then they will have to re-coup the money from somewhere, for instance by raising taxes.

    Cameron should start asking Broon which taxes he intends to raise, and focus attention there.

    The current government stance is unsustainable.

  • Comment number 16.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 17.

    2 Ghost

    Get real ghostie - are you suggesting the Tories have never avoided spelling out their plans for political gain?

    Or are they vile beyond belief too?

    Guess it's just when Labour do it?

    By the way, please try to understand the difference between a fact and an opinion - it's quite a problem for some of the Tory folk on here, though my nine year old seems to have mastered it, oddly.

  • Comment number 18.

    So tiresome. Most of the country accept that there will be cuts and the key is how the government will manage to achieve them - by cutting public sector jobs leaving posts unfilled, reducing budgets, more PFI ?! and outsourcing. Brown has no new ideas and I question his sanity. He seems to be unaware of the effect on the country he is creating or maybe he no longer cares. All we hear is more promises of change on his pathetic Utube appearances or worse still by text or even an early morning call. Can he just go as he is the singularly most depressing person in the whole of UK even more than the last Speaker.

  • Comment number 19.

    It is at least illuminating, that when the Gaurdian's main headline from the news conference is the "Brown claims black is white" quote, and others have led on the shadow cabinet giving up their outside interests, or even the burkha-wearing teacher, the BBC's political editor chooses a somewhat more straightforward 'dividing line' on which to pin his story.

    Bet you just can't wait for those fire-lit, winter nights in Brixton and Toxteth, eh Nick?

  • Comment number 20.

    Voters know there are going to be cuts in spending, even on Labourlist, Labour supporters themselves are asking Brown and his party to be honest and upfront about it.

    You may try and associate Tory=cuts, but we all know Labour=lies.

  • Comment number 21.

    Brown likes to talk about the future and his "vision" for it - because no-one can accuse him of lying about the future, but with Brown and his collaborators in power that's all there will ever be - jam tomorrow.
    The past 13 years are a sorry saga of failure and wasted opportunities and I for one hold Brown's government totally to blame. He's had more chances than anyone deserves, let alone someone of his meagre abilities.
    It is totally ludicrous that Brown claims Labour to be a party of "investment" (he means handouts). Any government with a shred of intelligence and public concern will be looking to cut back on public sector spending to avoid the UK becoming bankrupt. Unfortunately we can't trust Brown and co not to make matters worse - the best we can hope for is that the world's credit rating agencies downgrade British government debt so that the idiots can't continue to borrow any longer.

  • Comment number 22.


    Cameron is right to chip away at the "dishonesty" and go for the jugular. And so too the LibDems through Saint Vince.

    Brown has only himself to blame. He's stuck in the past and for the moment the Party is stuck with him.

    The election dividing lines are indeed boiling down to honesty versus lies and trust versus deceit.

    This election manifesto propaganda is selling the electorate short. A game of cat and mouse and more smoke and mirrors accounting from a fag-end government which can't bring itself to own up to its past incompetence and monumental mistakes.

    And to cap it all, it's confirmed there'll be no comprehensive spending review this side of an election - so how on earth can Whitehall department plan ahead?

    This election manifesto has Mandy's name written all over it with a couple of glaring omissions such as the Royal Mail sell-off and future of Trident. It's an admission of failure and begs the question what have they been doing for the last 12 years?

    http://theorangepartyblog.blogspot.com/2009/06/mandy-manifesto-with-dollop-of-brown.html

  • Comment number 23.

    Why is there no challenge to the political parties on whether they will raise taxes and if so which ones? I just don't get this one-sided view that spending cuts are the only way to restore the nation's finances.

  • Comment number 24.

    The Labour Party gives the British economy Cancer everytime its in power they hope that the electorate will only remember that it is the Tory's that have to administer Chemo.

    But the problem is caused everytime by Labour. They are unfit for power as can be seen from the fact that their only hope now is to fool and mislead the public again.

    They are trying to spend as much of the money for the next 5 years here and now so the Tory's have nothing left
    when they get in. But Brown is now so hated by us all that the blame will always stick to Brown. They will be Brown's cuts because he was the one who spent all of the money. We are not all fools.

    The needs of the British public come second to the needs of the ZaNuLabour party. But we can all see it now.

  • Comment number 25.

    Labour "cuts" are there in black and white in the Budget. How GB has the nerve to say otherwise(i.e. LIE) is beyond the pale!
    Ducking out of a spending review underlines this Labour Government's duplicity. Leave a scorched earth for the tories and hope they take the blame for Labour's spending slurge. It makes me sick.
    Call an election before Labour fatally undermine what respect this county has left. Read the international press, everyone is laughing at us, we have no moral authority anymore, we can't even lecture Iran for crushing democracy when it is in full swing at home under LGB (Lying Gordon Brown).

  • Comment number 26.

    17. At 1:11pm on 29 Jun 2009, Laughatthetories wrote:
    2 Ghost

    Get real ghostie - are you suggesting the Tories have never avoided spelling out their plans for political gain?

    Or are they vile beyond belief too?

    Guess it's just when Labour do it?

    By the way, please try to understand the difference between a fact and an opinion - it's quite a problem for some of the Tory folk on here, though my nine year old seems to have mastered it, oddly.

    =----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Firstly do expand and qualify the " get real " comment

    We are dealing with the topic of Labour denial do not try and deflect it by bringing the tories into the conversation

    Labour are currently telling blatant porkies to try and garner support for their ever dwindling fanbase.

    "Tory folk" are you making yet another blatant assumption based on NADA ... It appears the ad hominem attacks are out again

    Anyway lets talk facts and opinion

    Are you saying that Labour will NOT make any cuts whatsoever ? over to you to say otherwise

  • Comment number 27.

    Mr Cameron as been saying for months that there is a black hole in the goverments budgets so if this is true then if Mr Cameron gets in to power then it follows that there must be even deeper cuts to services than he as been saying

    So who ever gets in to power cuts are on the way but it will be a case of how deep and how hard the cuts are and what changes to laws that will effect us all some changes will hurt the more people than others

    The minimum wage is one law that effects every one all thoe they are not on

  • Comment number 28.

    @17

    To pull us out of this recession, the Government must cut spending, or raise taxes, or conflate the two.

    But then, that sort of information is hidden in books.

  • Comment number 29.

    Having watched Mr.Balls dissimulate his way through his interview with Andrew Marr yesterday morning I am left puzzled as to the prevailing mindset of this government. If Mr. Balls had any view on public spending it was all about shuffling the budgets around for the next two to three years whilst maintaining the current level of funding.

    The problem that Mr.Balls has is that there is already a GBP 49 billion gap in the current budget which is to be covered by what are called efficiency savings. I am not clear as to the difference between an efficiency saving and a spending cut but no doubt someone will be able to hector me out of that view.

    The current government has a deficit of GBP 174 billion. By the end of the recession in the Nineties the then UK government had a deficit in the region of GBP 38 billion. If I recall Kenneth Clark spent the next four years cutting and taxing to resolve that deficit. On this basis it will take more than eighteen years to resolve the current deficit and we now have far less value creating manufacturing industry in this country than we did then.

    There needs to be an end to the current level of government spending. This need not mean the end of properly funded public services if the exercise is effectively managed.It is this which the government needs to address. If the government fails to address this issue then there is every prospect that the situation will deteriorate further leaving slash and burn cutting as the only solution. This will help nobody and probably lead to the riots Cameron is concerned about.

    At the moment there is time to define new, constructive approaches to the provision of public services. This time is fast running out and if there is no move to address the prevailing deficit then the economic situation will only get worse leading to even bigger cuts.

    If Labour fails to grasp this nettle before this autumn then it will be clear that Labour is prepared to sacrifice public services on the bonfire of their own vanity. In the end it will be Tory cuts but Labour's fault.

  • Comment number 30.

    This "Building Britain's Future" aka "Brown Re-launch #23,987" (well he's had so many hasn't he??!!) is being billed as the vision that Brown said he wanted to set out when he chickened out of an election in 2007 on the basis of one marginals poll, if so then you have to wonder why it's taken 18 months or so to come up with it as all it seems is a re-hash of previously announced policies. Labour will try and claim that it was delayed because of the financial crisis but he had a full year before that and the best part of another since so what was he up to then?

  • Comment number 31.

    Nick says that whoever correctly judges the public mood will 'win'.

    I assume that comment is based upon historical data, insofar as the voting public have in the past, tended to end up voting along tribal lines.

    It might be a vain hope, but I'm thinking that the English public have really had with the current crop of politicians at Westminster and will vote most of them out at the next General Election.

    So I hope that that is the genuine public mood which really does result in a new type of politics in England.

    We surely need it.

  • Comment number 32.

    Nick

    I'm the public and so are all of my friends. None of us theliebe that Labour = investment and Conservative + cuts.

    What we believe is that Brown will try to spend himself out of trouble leaving the Country = Our Country even more in debt.

    Even if the economy turns the result in the next few months it will not be more money to reduce debt. Corporation Tax will lag and employment will continue to rise thus costing more in benefits.

    You analysis is totally wrong. The feel good factor is years away.

    So please try to be balanced in your comments.

  • Comment number 33.

    I wonder how the markets would react if the Conservatives announced that they were going to sit the next election out and let Labour carry on ? I suspect that the panic would make the 1929 Wall Street Crash look like a picnic.

  • Comment number 34.

    Does Gordon Brown think we are stupid? Does he really think that people will buy the idea that if Labour is in power spending would continue at the present rate? Even if Ms Piggy is the new PM - there'll have to be compromises. As a floating voter Brown's really beginning to annoy me, as do blogs leaning one way or another. Where's straight-forward unbaised journalism gone?

  • Comment number 35.

    Predicting riots when a Tory Government is in power is not difficult. It's bound to happen. Because most of us know that it is in the Tory DNA to want to make cuts to public services, whether the economy is in dire straits or not. Labour may be using weasle words, but any cuts will be as minimal as possible under Labour whereas Cameron and Osborne will go to it with relish. Cutting and undermining public services and public service workers is what being a Tory is all about.

  • Comment number 36.

    Gordon Brown is so dishonest, the next thing you know he will be cycling in to work claiming to be green, even though he is being followed by a couple of cars all the way.

  • Comment number 37.

    Nick

    You say

    "And that is what he says the government is failing to do and used every word for dishonest other than "liar" to describe the prime minister."

    I'll do it for Cameron.

    Gordon Brown is a LIAR.

    And I don't have Parliamentary privilege, nor want it.

  • Comment number 38.

    obangobang

    Good point. Let's focus on second jobs and tory 'honesty' v labour 'lies'. Can you tell me just how honest it is for a group of public servants to hold second jobs while they can keep them secret, but then jettison them as soon as they are required to reveal the truth?

  • Comment number 39.

    Nick

    the biggest story of the day is your bezzy mate Mandy letting slip that they dare not have the over due Comprehensive Spending Review before the next election because the electorate would have the truth in front of them so would not vote Labour.

    So you try and cover up the fact by going for 'riots in the streets'. You choose your bias and wright your blog.

  • Comment number 40.

    Nick Robinson is in a biased minority of one here. Laughatthetories, post #17 could benefit from having more conversations with his/her nine year old. Gordon Brown, having tried and failed with his "do nothing" attacks, has now reverted to the familiar Labour line of Tory cuts, whilst, as is his wont, uttering his usual (transparent) weasel words about Labour investment. The British electorate are not stupid.
    Brown is a disgrace, utterly dishonest and incompetent.

  • Comment number 41.

    Cameron also tried to diffuse the new Brown cry of 'British homes for British people'.

    Very similar to the Brown cry of 'British jobs for British people'.

    It must be the lack of money and ground supporters that labour are so unaware yet again that this was the slogan that was used by the BNP on their leaflet at the European elections. Certainly in NE England.

    It was the only slogan they used that could have been suggestively racist.

    Time to question Brown's objectives more fully.



  • Comment number 42.

    Nick. Lord Reith must be spinning in his grave at the way the unbiased, quality reporting of the BBC has been bastardised by New Labour apparatchicks spinning the government line.
    How much borrowing do you think the country can sustain? If the markets caught a whiff of a suggestion that labour might win the next election, rather than the Conservatives, the pound would sink like a stone and interest rates in the UK would soar. That is what the outside world thinks of labour's plans, or threats. Remember Dennis Healey and the IMF?

  • Comment number 43.

    Shocking biased item Nick. I cannot believe you have written such a blog. You're view of the bloggers is also poor since you seem to think we cannot form our own views from what we see and here (not just from the Beeb).

  • Comment number 44.

    Surely there needs to be some rules even to the 'game' of politics Mr Robinson? Is it right that Brown should tell not just little fibs but bare faced whoppers and get away it?

    It's about time the BBC started fulfilling its pledge to impartiality, yes that includes highlighting LIES where it finds them and they don't come any bigger than Gordon's.

    If you don't take part in highlighting this disingenuity then you face being obliterated as an organisation yourself and rightly so. Get a grip.

  • Comment number 45.

    Nick, the fact is that the present excuse for a government is borrowing money unsustainably.T his country now has a huge structural Budget deficit as a consequence of the policies of Gordon Brown. The amount of debt being piled up will of course need servicing - at the current rate of borrowing, just servicing the debt incurred could exceed the education budget.

    It is a complete disaster and Brown is lying through his teeth about it - whichever party forms the next government, there will have to be spending cuts and tax rises! Brown lies, lies, lies - it is what he does best!

  • Comment number 46.

    35. At 1:32pm on 29 Jun 2009, heskethpark wrote:
    Predicting riots when a Tory Government is in power is not difficult. It's bound to happen. Because most of us know that it is in the Tory DNA to want to make cuts to public services, whether the economy is in dire straits or not. Labour may be using weasle words, but any cuts will be as minimal as possible under Labour whereas Cameron and Osborne will go to it with relish. Cutting and undermining public services and public service workers is what being a Tory is all about.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    They can't be minimal regardless of who gets into power next.. the Public sector is so bloated cuts are needed and i say that as a public sector worker

  • Comment number 47.

    can anyone tell me why everyone doesn't just say it like it is? Brown is a liar and everyone knows it.

    in fact, I just read that Mandelson has supposedly tied the hands of the chancellor by making a comment on public spending before the election. If I was the Darling I would consider saying something like, "I'm the Chancellor, and Mandelson is a just sleaze bag"

  • Comment number 48.

    Judge the public mood? Gordon Brown? Is the BBC trying to take us for fools as well as the prime minister?

    The BBC should put itself up first for cuts in expenditure and then se if all those top jobs suddenly become vacant because they are now uncompetitve with the private sector... WHo exactly are these people going to work for? No-one would have them. No one in the private sector has such a feather bedded deal as the BBC execs with theri chauffeur driven cars and bottles of champagne.

    Can we have a discussion on here pleaes at the number of chauffeur driven cars the BBc is going to axe? You can start with the one I recently saw John Sergeant getting inot after a slap up dinner with Lord Hattersley. What did those two great minds decide that will save the planet?

    Never mind the government; the BBC needs to cut its cloth.

    Call an election and shut it down.

  • Comment number 49.

    I used to be proud to be British. It was something to boost about. Now I see reporters put together a piece that could only be described as aggressive when considering the general mood of the public. I am amazed that a respected foundation like the BBC do not mention what everyone else is saying. They are a lone voice (oh wait a minute the government stand beside them too).
    Who in their right mind believes cuts are not coming. Taxes will also need to rise for everyone. The only alternative is inflation in double digits. Has any government managed to control this?
    Please feel free to report whether Labour are looking for cuts and if not how they intend to pay for the debt they are creating?

  • Comment number 50.

    Just as I stopped listening or responding to the likes of saga, laugh, rifle and grandantidote on these blogs I now avoid listening to the far fetched claims of The Government. Their policies are so steeped in spin and electoral desperation that they aren't worth the bother! The cancellaton of a spending review is just about the last straw but I imagine there are many other bodies capable of laying down the truth of our debt infested economy if push comes to shove.

  • Comment number 51.

    # 29. At 1:27pm on 29 Jun 2009, stanilic wrote:
    "Labour is prepared to sacrifice public services on the bonfire of their own vanity. In the end it will be Tory cuts but Labour's fault."

    That is the most sensible comment I have read. It is clear that Brown is lying, slashing and burning now, so the Tories inherit a terrible mess to deal with, for which they can then be blamed. It is as transparent as it is dishonest! We should have an election now, so a Government with a fresh mandate can start to address the black hole in the nation's finances sooner rather than later.

  • Comment number 52.

    It seems partisan to link only the tories with spending cuts. All parties will need to do more with less, i.e. cut waste from spending and spend remainder more effectively. This may blow minds at the BBC but one can get same results for public while spending less. Eliminating nonsenses in bureaucracy and silly races to spend annual budgets are two examples.

  • Comment number 53.

    It's about time the BBC started fulfilling its pledge to impartiality, yes that includes highlighting LIES where it finds them and they don't come any bigger than Gordon's.

    If you don't take part in highlighting this disingenuity then you face being obliterated as an organisation yourself and rightly so. Get a grip.

    =====================

    Judging from the past actions of alistair campbell it would take a very brave media organisation to directly accuse the government of lying.

    The BBC got dragged over the hot coals and condemned by an 'independant' government enquiry - even though the main allegation - that government officials had changed the wording on intelligence reports for public consumption- was shown to be largely true.

    Its not surprising that the beeb is not eager to fin d itself on the wrong end of the government boot again.


  • Comment number 54.

    David Cameron can go stick it!!! He is an absolute disgrace...Lets see how much they have been earning from their rich friends in business with their second jobs...David Cameron is going to start massive cuts...im a teacher and remember how bad it was with the tories last time. All he can do is make sick personal attacks on the primmininster disgusting. Listening to David Cameron sppeak I felt sick...knowing he is preparing to sack policemen, teachers, and other crucial staff. Why not sack Osborne...and give us a ll a break.

  • Comment number 55.

    Everyone I know within the 'general public' wants cuts - and plenty of 'em - in order to stop the country going down the pan. Start with public sector final-salary pensions, then take the knife to NHS middle management.

    And everyone knows Brown is a liar.

  • Comment number 56.

    Just listned to David Camerons speech and heared him with his new trick..he says two or three facts that appear to be true then he comes out with a suggestion he wants people to believe. It is know as a truism...he talks about election post being postponed then 10 p tax etc then gets his suggestion in about Gordon Brown's premiership being dishonest...fact fact then suggestion...SO SEE THROUGH DAVID!!!STOP USING PSYCHOLOGICAL TRICKS SUCHS AS TRUISMS AND COME UP STRAIGHT DAVID..ITS YOU NOT THE PRI MININSTER WHO IS HIDING SOMETHING!!

  • Comment number 57.

    As much as i hate to say it but David Cameron is correct. With the level of public borrowing the government will have to cut spending. It is another example of Gordon worrying too much about a fourth term than what is best for the general public. I wish he would just be honest and say that yes he will have to cut spending as the public will understand why. I do however think that DC is overdramatising things when he says there will be 'riots on the streets' if the next government makes cuts without preparing the public.

  • Comment number 58.

    Oh Dear

    Nick Seeing as the BBC has been so implicite as part of the Zanulabour spin machine that its imparciality is no longer evident, I don't see the problrm with coming out on the side of the people and absolutely blasting labour into Oblivion for its ecconomic mismanagement and constant LIES. The BBC should not be impartial it is funded by the people it should be on the side of the people Fullstop

  • Comment number 59.

    54. At 1:55pm on 29 Jun 2009, davidou1234 wrote:
    David Cameron can go stick it!!! He is an absolute disgrace...Lets see how much they have been earning from their rich friends in business with their second jobs...David Cameron is going to start massive cuts...im a teacher and remember how bad it was with the tories last time. All he can do is make sick personal attacks on the primmininster disgusting. Listening to David Cameron sppeak I felt sick...knowing he is preparing to sack policemen, teachers, and other crucial staff. Why not sack Osborne...and give us a ll a break.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Pot kettle black springs to mind

  • Comment number 60.

    I hate to refute the Nick bashing here, but his pronouncements on the 10 O'clock news are often more unbiased to my ear. I don't know if that has anything to do with the larger audience he reaches at that time. His assessments of Labour and LGB are often spot on.

  • Comment number 61.

    Brown will do whatever it takes to save his skin. Re: a post above on tory second jobs etc. Is it also right that we have a goverment who have non elected people make big decisions for us? Is it right that they bring back peopkle who have been sacked from office two or three times? Is it right that we went into a war on lies that have cost thousands of lives?

  • Comment number 62.

    So Labour won't even admit to making cuts and Brown wants to spend his way to election victory. Has there ever been a more dishonest and dangerous government in the UK's history?

  • Comment number 63.

    Nick

    This is about who is being truthful and who is lying. As has been mentioned this is going to be a game a chess as regards who ends up on top.

    But whoever wins the election has one almighty mess to deal with. Why does Brown want to win, is this his ego trip?

    Will gaining power for another term really do him or the country any good.

    He has proved beyond doubt that he is not PM material either in character or deed. Why would he want to gain control over nothing. He has single handedly destroyed an economy that he has no idea how to retrieve and yet he plays this stupid word game with Cameron.

    When will we get what we have been paying for - true representatives of our views and MP's who will tell the truth.




  • Comment number 64.

    A good example of Labour "investing" is the million pounds they spent asking an illegal asylum seeker to return home.

  • Comment number 65.

    Nick, your shirt appears spun from crimson cloth today,

    The public knows that the Tories will cut spending on public services - it is what they do, no surprise there. It is sure ground for Cameron and why he occupies it very confidently knowing his party is four square behind him.
    The difference now is that there are very few people left (even in the government)who do not understand that whoever wins the next election will have to make cuts in public spending/investment from current levels which are unsustainable.
    Very few also fail to understand precisely why these will be required and that the effects will likely impact everyone either by loss of services we rely on or by having to pay more taxes (or most likely both).

    What is unclear from all the parties - even more so after the reported delay to the spending review - is precisely what aspects of public spending are not priorities for them and therefore where the cuts will fall.
    A clear start to identifying areas where spending will fall is needed from all, to allow a debate and to enable the voters to decide which set of priorities we are most comfortable/least uncomfortable with.

    At present a plague on both their houses for the dishonesty and deception they are continuing to promote as mature political 'debate'.

  • Comment number 66.

    Extra, read all about it... "In the kingdom of the blind etc" http://moralorder.mediumisthemess.com/ twenty twenty vision and all that...

  • Comment number 67.

    Yet remember if NO spending CUTs and massive fast debt repayment then they MUST be planning TAX rises. Last november emails hinting at 20% VAT were leaked and denyed.


    Will I would guess that 20% VAT is being looked at very closely!

  • Comment number 68.

    #48 RobinJD

    .......Never mind the government; the BBC needs to cut its cloth...........

    Unfortunately the BBC cloth cutting doesn't appear to extend to covering the 2009 Glastonbury music festival with less than an alleged 405 staff members.

    Robinson writes "Whoever correctly judges the public mood on this issue will hold the key to winning the next election"

    Gordon Brown can attempt in whichever flawed way he pleases to judge the public mood, as evidenced by the recent European and local elections, the public have already voiced their opinion on a tired, inept, disingenuous and truly awful administration. Still, hide like a rhino' Brown blunders on, control freaking his way to, with luck, annihilation at the next General Election, that is supposing he can't engineer way of postponing it.

    Cameron now needs to tell it how it is, cuts are inevitable, Brown never has and never will understand the notion that honesty is the best policy. Come to think of it, any policy from Labour would be a start.

  • Comment number 69.

    54. At 1:55pm on 29 Jun 2009, davidou1234 wrote:
    David Cameron can go stick it!!! He is an absolute disgrace...Lets see how much they have been earning from their rich friends in business with their second jobs...David Cameron is going to start massive cuts...im a teacher and remember how bad it was with the tories last time. All he can do is make sick personal attacks on the primmininster disgusting. Listening to David Cameron sppeak I felt sick...knowing he is preparing to sack policemen, teachers, and other crucial staff. Why not sack Osborne...and give us a ll a break.

    =============================================================

    And you're a teacher? I doubt it given the manic writing above, but then maybe you're a product of labours 'education, education, education'

    Perhaps you teach maths? If so, can you explain where the money gordon is going to 'invest' is coming from?

    Also when did Cameron say he was going to cut policemen and teacher?
    Or in this day of 'gordons doublespeak' doesn't it matter whether he said it or not, its just a convienient rumour for you to spread to protect 'no cuts - honest!' Brown.

  • Comment number 70.

    Governments have reduced tax income and large gifts to financial services companies. The government can either raise taxes or make cuts in governmental services. The unfortunate thing about governments is that bureauracies seem to hold a good deal of power and politicians are unable or unwilling to take them on in any meaningful manner. When cuts are proposed it is the bureauracies who offer up programs serving the poor and other projects that have a public interest and not the programs that are wasteful and inefficient or unnecessary. The public becomes outraged at the list of programs offered and everyone moves on as if they have dealt with the matter. The post-war governmental agencies are out of line with both public need and organizational structure. Remember how the Russian bureaucrats kept saying that eveything was fine even as the system collasped arond them. That was nothing peculiar to the Russians, it is more a reflection of the nature of bureacracies. Bureauracies have become a major employement center and have been the foundation of the middle class and therefore almost impossible to reduce in any meaningful way. Cross-purposes and redundancy keeps everyone busy while nothing important gets done.

  • Comment number 71.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 72.

    #38

    You mistake me for someone who either cares about politicians having second jobs or at the very least would try to defend MPs for having them. I don't, and I won't.

    By the way, though, I think you'll find they have to declare their outside interests at the very least.

    Clearly, however, you believe that we're all much better off in the hands of a career politician like the Crashmeister, someone without a single day's private sector, business experience (I don't think TV journalism really counts, do you?). After all, that's gone so well, hasn't it?

  • Comment number 73.

    Davidou1234 - So glad i'm not taught by you as you seem so angry an ill informed. Cuts are inevitable, face the facts. Gordie has ballsed up big time and EVERYONE is now going to have to pay for it no matter who the next Goverment is.

  • Comment number 74.

    51 crowed

    Very true.

    labour have nothing to lose. If they spend, spend, spend they will do what Brown says they are doing.

    But Brown doesn't care, in the slightest, what happens to the UK. He will be long gone into the Lords (heaven forbid he ever become a teacher).

  • Comment number 75.

    29. At 1:27pm on 29 Jun 2009, stanilic wrote:
    I am not clear as to the difference between an efficiency saving and a spending cut but no doubt someone will be able to hector me out of that view.
    =========================

    my take on it,

    An efficiency saving is when you provide precisely the same service as before but at a reduced cost i.e. more efficiently.

    A spending cut is when you deliberately decide not to provide a service to save the money i.e. cuts.

    Political parties of all hues consistently try to muddle this basic distinction by reducing the level of service and sell this as an efficiency saving.

  • Comment number 76.

    I now know why our education system is in such a mess. Think about it. You're a teacher, you make £25,000 ( I guess) but owe £10m. Do you keep spending or try to pay off your debt? The problem is most people these days would just keep spending and ignore the consequences.

  • Comment number 77.

    PS Davidou1234 - how come you're posting if your a teacher? shouldn't you be working or something? Or you on a "training day"? Just in case you ask I'm not working as I lost my job thanks to Gordon's great work in saving British manufacturing.

  • Comment number 78.

    I have especially registered just to be able to comment. This posting goes way beyond the expected BBC/Nick apologia for Labour. Absolutely disgraceful.

  • Comment number 79.

    #54

    You're a teacher? Judging by the spelling and punctuation in your post, I assume you're an English teacher in one of those shiny new City Academies. So all the 'investment' of the last twelve years has improved the education system to the point where teachers have nothing better to do at 1.55pm on a Monday afternoon than post blogs.

    That's money well spent then.

  • Comment number 80.

    There are a number of attacking posts in respect of Tories having second jobs. But what about the 40+ Labour MPs who have second jobs?
    There's one who earns approx £120k more than his MP's salary - Gordon Brown. Cabinet Ministers earn a total of c£140k I believe. Very lucrative second jobs that take a lot of time and mean they cannot serve their constituents. When was the last time Brown held a proper surgery in his constituency?
    So Ministers are even worse at it than the Tory frontbenchers.
    The above facts should silence some

  • Comment number 81.

    Nick,

    This is a dreadful post from you even by your own standards.

    Why aren't you reporting the new policy vision of "Mr 15 percent" ???

    As for "judging the public mood" Well with the 10p tax band abolition, proposed VED increase, the Gurkhas, Damien McBride, Iraq Inquiry in private etc I'm afraid Mr 15 percent's track record of judging the public mood is not very good.

    And from this post, yours isn't any better.

  • Comment number 82.

    It not about cuts vs no cuts it is about which party will make the 'kindest' cuts. Which party will favour its own? This of course depends on whether one is part of 'its own' or not!

    The cuts or no cuts situation is really no different from any election even when expenditure is rising.

    The question arises: Is Brown's Labour party to the left or the right of Cameron's Tory party? Or are they identical? (David Brown vs Gordon Cameron! Any thoughts!?

    Oh and by the way, the 'answer' cannot be based upon what they say now, but on the way that they generally act or have generally acted (see Margaret Thatcher or/and Kier Hardy!!!)

  • Comment number 83.

    This is starting to go against all rational thinking now. We have a Government trying to present the picture of the ability to spend against all sensible reports from the IMF, the OECD and every organisation which deals with fiscal policy. It is now time for the media to present the true picture that the Government is in fact telling untruths to the electorate.

    The OECD proved this morning that Darlings figures are completely wrong and they have downgraded our growth to shrinking by 4.3. Even if the recession ended now we still have to deal with debt and the period of stagnation I believe will follow. The only fiscal tool the Government have left is quantitative easing, I can see us having to do a good deal more of this, which is very dangerous indeed for our economy, if the Government continue spending at present levels.

    It is now imperative that the Government come clean over the true state of the economy and present a plan for where cuts will be, this needs to be forced out of them sooner rather than later in my opinion.

  • Comment number 84.

    Just how old are you davidou1234?
    Twelve?

    The OECD has again said that the country is in deep doo doo and will remain so at least until 2010.

    Secret Skivver , I too have wondered that , a bit like a foul in snooker where you can insist the fouler plays the shot.
    Sadly, it is far too serious for that.

    I am astonished at the tone set generally by this public and impartial broadcaster.
    Radio 4 described the police action at the G20 " riots" Now I viewed NO riot, I saw a demonstration which I believe is still legal in this country and which was peaceful viewed from where I stood.
    To be fair the broadcaster did then change to referring to the
    " demonstration" by which time the damage is already done.
    Should you want a master class in spinning , I give you the BBC.
    They of course need to be masters of spin given the amount of our money they waste.
    400 BBC folk at Glastonbury! Having saturated the screens and airwaves with that gig and the demise of Michael Jackson ( not even finished doing that on the news yet) perhaps they genuinely needed 400.
    Add to that a wee fat Scot who found some sort of major comparison twixt Texas and Scotland in the making of a documentary about independence, so took himself off for a jolly at our expense, there are indeed questions to be answered on how the BBC is funded.
    I will vote for the party who revokes the licence fee!

  • Comment number 85.

    The Cameron honesty campaign reminds me of this great quote:
    "If it falls to me to start a fight to cut out the cancer of bent and twisted journalism in our country with the simple sword of truth and the trusty shield of British fair play, so be it. I am ready for the fight. The fight against falsehood and those who peddle it. My fight begins today. Thank you and good afternoon."
    The author - why Jonathan Aitken of course, a cabinet minister under the last tory government launching his campaign against the Guardian and World in Acton which led to him receiving an 18 month jail sentence for perjury, i.e. lying. Aitken's early release meant that his prison sentence avoided overlapping with that of Jeffrey Archer, deputy chairman of the Conservative Party under the last tory government. Archer was convicted of perverting the course of justice, i.e. lying. Of course Archer got out well before Conrad Black, a tory peer under the present government was sentenced to six and a half years for fraud (lying) and misstatements (lying). I can't be bothered to list the tory liars who didn't go to prison, though tory minister Neil Hamilton is worth a mention as he did go bankrupt when he lost his libel action over cash for questions because the jury found that he had been lying. He is also interesting because David Willetts, a member of the current shadow cabinet, had to resign from the government because he had 'dissembled', i.e. lied to the inquiry.
    Let's not pretend that tories don't lie!

  • Comment number 86.

    36. At 1:33pm on 29 Jun 2009, ch21ss wrote:

    Gordon Brown is so dishonest, the next thing you know he will be cycling in to work claiming to be green, even though he is being followed by a couple of cars all the way.

    TOo late- David Cameron's already done that.

  • Comment number 87.

    #72

    Obangobang

    Either you didn't understand the point I was making or chose to ignore it. I don't particularly care whether MPs have second jobs or not - my point was that being happy to have a second job when you could keep the amount you earned and the amount of time you spent on it secret, then ditching the job when you have to publish these things is fundamentally dishonest.

  • Comment number 88.

    Nick,
    I see the Treasury are now denying that any decision has been made vis-à-vis the Comprehensive Spending Review. So who is telling the truth the Chancellor or our de facto Deputy Prime Minister, Lord Mandelson?
    Treasury spokesman: "The Chancellor makes the decisions, no matter what Peter Mandelson says, and no decisions have been made." [Hat-tip: Paul Waugh]
    http://waugh.standard.co.uk/
    Given the topic of your last post public spending it seems strange that you have not chosen to highlight this little spat in GVN?
    Furthermore, when you report on the Tory cuts vs. Labour Investment row, why don't you mention that almost every single respected political commentator and economic forecaster and institution, from both left and right, believe that Labour will have to cut public spending!
    [In fact, to you Brown apologists out there - I challenge you to name one serious independent body that supports Browns analogy (and no you cant say the BBC)]
    Even the bloggers at Labour Home, have accepted that Public Spending cuts are inevitable whoever wins the election.

    http://www.labourhome.org/forum/?p=6100

    I know you need to be impartial Nick but does that still apply when a PM is claiming that black is white? Surely the BBC also has a duty to expose a politician (even a PM) when he is trying to take the country for fools. So please Nick, start reporting Browns claims in their proper context i.e. Gordon Brown claims that public spending will not be cut.however this is refuted not just both opposition parties, but also the vast majority of international commentators.. Without this context, you give Browns argument a credibility that it does not deserve.

  • Comment number 89.

    Nick, you used to be good and relatively impartial when Tony Blair was the gaffer.

    Since Brown was crowned I'm afraid it's been all too obvious where your political affiliations lie.

  • Comment number 90.

    Is it just my imagination, or is the inclusion of the words "I'm a teacher..." in a posting always surrounded by hysterical prose constructed in appalling English?

    Gawd 'elp us.

  • Comment number 91.

    I hear that Brown already has the outline for his Uni course drafted for next year.

    'How to destroy the 4th largest economy in 12 years'
    (By the man who masterminded it all)

    It won't take three years you can cover it in 3 seconds and in 3 words

    SPEND SPEND SPEND

  • Comment number 92.

    33 secretSkivver

    I wonder how the markets would react if the Conservatives announced that they were going to sit the next election out and let Labour carry on ? I suspect that the panic would make the 1929 Wall Street Crash look like a picnic

    ............................

    What an interesting thought. If it weren't for the fact that the country would then go into complete meltdown, and end up as a third world nation, I imagine the idea must have a certain appeal to Cameron.

    54 and 56 davidou1234

    If it wasn't for the fact that you have been fairly consistent with your comments over a number of blogs, I would have believed that you were joking and just made the comments you do to play devils advocate given the overwhelming condemnation of the Government and the members thereof from the other commentators

  • Comment number 93.

    Let's start a small poll on who has captured the public mood right now. Does the public think that there must be cuts in public spending or alternatively rises in direct and indirect taxes?

  • Comment number 94.

    RE 35. heskethpark

    "Labour may be using weasle words, but any cuts will be as minimal as possible under Labour whereas Cameron and Osborne will go to it with relish."

    You should be a Labour party spin doctor. You are most of the way to a genuinely good party line there. Start with a direct admission that public spending cuts are inevitable, and then contrast heartless, Tory slash and burn tactics with measured, compassionate Labour party pruning. Who knows, it could even work. The only problem is that your party leader has already said repeatedly that there will be no cuts. None. Public spending under Labour will rise and rise forever. So in order to use your admittedly good idea, you have to start by conceding that Brown is blatantly lying. Tough one that.

  • Comment number 95.

    What a lot of balderdash. I put it down to the intense heat.

    Joe the Plumber (!) is not really interested in cuts. He is only interested in what affects him and IF he votes he probably has deserted Labour anyway due to his neighbourhood and the job situation being altered unacceptably to HIM.

    Those who DO vote are usually the likes of me and I vote Conservative!

  • Comment number 96.

    davidou @ 54 and 56:

    For one who professes to be a teacher the standard of your spelling is atrocious.
    I also used to be teacher although I am now retired and also have no fond memories of Thatcher but this is the here and now and Gordon Brown is the biggest disgrace of the lot. He either wraps up his policies in sheep's clothing or blatantly fibs in a desperate attempt to cling onto power. David Cameron is not in power and so bears no responsibility for our present feeble position.

  • Comment number 97.

    #54

    And you're a teacher??..................God help our kids!!

    Or perhaps you're really a banker? You seem to have the financial nous of Nick Leeson.

    Let's face facts. Brown has overspent, wasted and blundered on for personal ambition. Yes he has spent more than ever before and at the what cost. Massive personal and national debt, inefficient public owned services, no pensions to speak of, (except for the Public Workers), queue jumping by illegals on housing lists, (despite Government denials), etc, etc, etc.

    Cameron should just come out and be honest - something Brown and Mandelson have never been.

    By the way, in all your envious rantings please look at the Labour and Conservative front-benches. One of these MPs owns seven houses. Which party do you think he belongs to?

  • Comment number 98.

    59. At 2:02pm on 29 Jun 2009, ghostworld wrote:
    54. At 1:55pm on 29 Jun 2009, davidou1234 wrote:
    David Cameron can go stick it!!! He is an absolute disgrace...Lets see how much they have been earning from their rich friends in business with their second jobs...David Cameron is going to start massive cuts...im a teacher and remember how bad it was with the tories last time. All he can do is make sick personal attacks on the primmininster disgusting. Listening to David Cameron sppeak I felt sick...knowing he is preparing to sack policemen, teachers, and other crucial staff. Why not sack Osborne...and give us a ll a break.

    You're not an English Teacher I hope!

  • Comment number 99.

    Finally.... one of them gets part of it! Cuts are coming --- only a miracle can prevent them!

    Yes there will be riots and worse on the streets unless;

    1). Fraudulent MPs are seen to dealt with by the laws that govern everyone in the land!
    2). The cost and number of MPs, Lords and the 'Establishment' is SEEN to be cut first!
    3). Those who can take the cuts best, feel them first!
    4). All expensive 'initiatives' with little impact on the most vulnerable are cut first!
    5). The citizens of this country are seen to have an important role in deciding where and how far cuts will go!
    6). There is no 'spin', 'skulduggery' and 'self serving' from any MP and/or 'establishment' figure!

    (Personal note!) Have just read above list and need to make one more comment ---

    7). All pigs fully fuelled and ready for take-off!

  • Comment number 100.

    54. At 1:55pm on 29 Jun 2009, davidou1234 wrote:
    David Cameron can go stick it!!! He is an absolute disgrace...Lets see how much they have been earning from their rich friends in business with their second jobs...David Cameron is going to start massive cuts...im a teacher and remember how bad it was with the tories last time. All he can do is make sick personal attacks on the primmininster disgusting. Listening to David Cameron sppeak I felt sick...knowing he is preparing to sack policemen, teachers, and other crucial staff. Why not sack Osborne...and give us a ll a break.

    --------------

    Oh dear god, think of the children.

    Won't someone please think of the children.

 

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