Green shoots (2)
As promised yesterday, here's my response to those of you who didn't like the coverage of the Shriti Vadera story.
Davidurquhart called it "an absolutely nothing story"; Younghal called it "over-hyped". The criticism, if I can sum it up, seems to be that since the business minister isn't the chancellor, and since she didn't first use the phrase herself (that is, since it was suggested to her by an interviewer and it shone no light on the government's attitude to the recession), this was not a legitimate news story.
My answer is simple - this was a day of heavy job losses and gloomy economic news. Shriti Vadera - who is not only the business minister but the closest economic adviser to the prime minister - did herself use the phrase "green shoots", a phrase Gordon Brown had again and again attacked Norman Lamont for using in the early the 1990s.
The question of whether this government was downplaying the prospect of the recession before it happened and then being over-optimistic about the likelihood and timescale of recovery is an important one.
For example, the Tories suggest that the economic forecasts in the chancellor's pre-Budget report are hopelessly optimistic. Indeed, Baroness Vedera herself was interviewed in the Telegraph in March and said that what made this crunch different from those of 10 or 20 years ago was that they had come with redundancies and closures. The implication here was that this time we might not see those things - but that is not how it has turned out.
Evidence that she saw the problem with her remarks was the fact that she did interviews and, in effect, apologised for her words. What's more, her boss Peter Mandelson said that she wouldn't say the phrase "green shoots" again and that he didn't agree with that analysis.
No-one is claiming that this is the story of the year, let alone of the decade - but it was a legitimate story that did reflect on an important debate within politics and that came alongside the many detailed analytical stories we have done about the government's economic policies and the proposals from the opposition.
I'm 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~48~RS~)
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We all got into this mess through over optomism, so perhaps it's the way out as well!
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Davidurquhart was right.
OH look some real news:
http://timesonline.typepad.com/politics/2009/01/a-good-day-to-a.html
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You don't have to apologize or explain yourself for making a story out of this.
You should be explaining and apologizing for failing to make a story out of the government's hubris, mismanagement, incompetence and soaring national and private debt when it was still a work in progress.
It's a bit late now to be noticing the glib incompetence of the likes of Vadera. 'Indeed, Baroness Vedera herself was interviewed in the Telegraph in March and said that what made this crunch different from those of 10 or 20 years ago was that they had come with redundancies and closures.'
What kind of jackass would make a statement like that. Did she think this was some special Gordon Brown benign 'credit crunch' that crunched credit but didn't affect peoples spending?
The woman is an incompetent jackass and we and you should be shouting it from the rooftops.
The fact is that you shouldn't be able to get a word in edgeways what with the millions of others shouting about the entire government being a bunch of incompetent jackasses.
Still, good for you for sticking to your guns on this one. I look forward to your expose on Gordon 'no more boom and bust' Brown.
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Put like that Nick I tend to agree with you. It was an unintentional gaffe (in the sense that she was probably unaware of The Lamont quote) but a gaffe nevertheless much in the same way as 'I saved the world' was. The two slips do however go some way towards explaining how these two were thinking at the time.
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Isnt it a bugger when your victim is proved right. After hearing your jokey comments about Ms Vadera on Today, I set out on my rounds tuned to Radio 5 Live. On and after 10.00 am Victoria Derbyshire and the 5 Live News kept repeating a news release from the Royal Institiution of Chartered Surveyors (The estate agents trade union) which said that enquiries and requests to be registered as house buyers had increased for the last 3 months and were now running at twice the level of this time last year. Most seemed to be first time buyers hoping to enter the market. I assume that Ms Vadera would have been given advance notice of thie development and if that isnt evidence of at least one green shoot, I would like to know what is. This news being good does not appear to have been widely circulated across the news media and so Ms Vader remains in the dog house. I think an on air apology is called for.
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It matters because it shows the stupidity of the woman. The newscaster set a trap and she plunged head-long into it. I bet he could hardly believe his luck. A sensible person would've, in cricketing parlance, "padded it away" with something like "you don't really expect me to talk about green shoots, do I look like Norman Lamont".
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Dear Nick,
Thank you for clearing that up and stressing how out of touch this Mini-ster is.
Any more news on your other investigations yet on.....,
Mandy and a big house.
MP's changing the law to hide their exspenses.
Return of Big Ken.
Speaker Martin.
MP's only haveng 20 days at work before their next holiday, which is 2 days less than I get in holidays per year.
The next election.
That Russian yatch holiday and who else was on board and why.
Xxxx
ps, Next time you see GB, try and get him to wear a red tie. He is (Za)Nu(Improved) Labour you know.
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Nick, you are being unnecessarily defensive. Baroness Vadera said (quoted by you!) "I am seeing a few green shoots but it's a little bit too early to say exactly how they'd grow"
So, it is not unreasonable to ask what "green shoots" did she have in mind? But as usual, it's just NuLab spin, and they are now backtracking.
All is not rosy in the economic garden. This government talks nothing but manure but at the same time spays weedkiller on the healthy growth.
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Nicely said Nick - this is now a blog!
On the subject of the 'hopelessly optimistic' PBR figures, we are all dying to know HOW MUCH extra the government will need to borrow per extra month of recession? The original figures seemed pretty big, so if we are still in recession come the end of the year, how big will the actual figures been.
Also perhaps - why can the government never get their figures even remotely near reality?
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I'm afraid that much as most people have suspected this just goes to prove that Labour ministers don't have a real clue as to what's going on.
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I agree, Mr Robinson. Brown's lot can't be allowed to have their cake and eat it, they already get away with far too much manipulation with their endless empty announcements which too often the BBC slavishly carries. About time a BBC editor questioned the wisdom of swallowing such PR hype or challenged the nonsense.
One example of lazy or indulgent journalism was the reported improvement in education results. Yeh, right|, half the nation leave school unable to read, write and add up. Some improvement. What was the BBC journo on, Labour Kool Aid? He should have headlined the story with Labour failure and millions squandered. I wonder why he didn't.
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Nick,
No problem with "Green Shoots" story, but why haven't you also covered the MPs expenses story?
Surely, Parliament excempting themselves from part of the FOI Act + backtracking on a specific pledge i.e. to publish individual MP's expenses with receipts and in doing so, defying the courts, is worthy of a few words.
Perhaps you could let us know (via your contacts) as to whether any of three main political parties are going to whip their MP's into voting against this travesty. And if not, why not!!! You might also suggest to your new best friend Mr. M that it would be good for the PM's image (what's left of it) if he at least ensured that all members of his cabinet (including himself) voted against. Ditto Cameron and the Shadow cabinet...
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Agreed, this was certainly a story and you, Nick Robinson, should receive a gold star for highlighting how out-of-touch your average government minister is.
For example, Digby Jones talking about his government job as if it involved cleaning toilets without rubber gloves yesterday. I suppose, as DG of the CBI, he would have been used to giving Gordon Brown orders rather than taking them.
He also suggested that hardworking civil servants should be sacked, however, didn't mention his big business board director mates who have failed us and cost us.
Thank you for jumping on Dame Shriti's comments as she hides out in the house of Lords along with now many other government ministers so doesn't have to explain herself to parliament.
Nick, what about John McDonnell's protest against the third runway? You must remember, it was yesterday and he's been suspended for five days for highlighting further lack of parliamentary control.
I thought you would want to rubbish him like you did David Davis.
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Nick,
I feel your summing up is incorrect; most people simply believe that the Westminister tit-for tat game of He Said, She Said is an irrelevance that only has any real interest to those in the Westminster village.
The fact that Gordon Brown has continually used the tactic of over emphasising the importance of particular statements or (deliberately?) mis-quoting his opponents does not make Baroness Vadera's comments anymore worthy of such coverage.
If you feel it worthwhile writing on the validity, or otherwise or soundbites, perhaps you write about the Government's obsession with potraying the Tories as the Do Nothing party - despite nicking a couple of their ideas over the past week?
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I notice that Ms Vadera appears to have injured her finger. Is this Mandelson or Campbell literally hammering home the point about not repeating the 'green shoots' gaffe?
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Nick
All I can say is hallelujah. Your response has everything I would wish for. It has picked up on things we have put in your blog and is a very fare response in my view.
Please continue to converse with us and don't go back to being forced to tow one side.
We are now in my view in full election mode. You can see this in the way the ridiculous Derek Draper / Labour Rapid Rebuttal Unit swarmed over your Greenshoot’s blog with new ID's trying to take the sting out of it.
Thanks also for acknowledging that the PBR figures are now a big issue as they cause gross underestimation of the Debt we will incur.
Once again keep up the balance so the electorate can get a true view of what is facing us not over played our underplay Blairing of reality.
Cheers
PortcullisGate
PS
Mandies new house?
Yatch?
We still need answers
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Nick are you trying to bury bad news?
Also thought this might be a bit more interesting and perhaps even worth a comment from our man in parliment:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XTJL1h74tQU
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Fair comment!
What it did bring into the open is yet another unknown person with a peerage who is advising Gordon Brown.
As we know nothing about her CV and qualifications for the role perhaps someone would care to enlighten us.
After all we should be demanding the best people for the job in such a crisis.
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Nick,
I think the biggest problem with Shriti Vadera is that she doesn't seem to be very good at her job.
1. She generally seems to have mis-read the impact, severity and duration of of the Credit Crunch.
2. I understand that her hand was behind the GVN's response to the Northern Rock crisis
3. I am led to believe that Gordon also tasked her with the job of saving Woolworths....
4. The Green Shoots quote - which gave the Tories a free lunch!
5. If her civil service nickname is to be believed. Shriti Vadera's managerial style would also seem to leave a lot to be desired.
Now I'm sure that she must have some redeeming qualities and no doubt some successes under her belt. Otherwise how would she have come so far? So perhaps the Labour spin machine needs to be a bit more pro-active on her behalf? However, if this isn't the case, then I suggest Gordon get's rid - quickly!
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BBC journo covers minor government minister in relation to minor story + complaints about nature of coverage = explanation of coverage.
BBC journo covers shadow chancellor in relation to minor story + complaints about coverage = no explanation of coverage.
What, please, is the difference? Is it important to be seen as a safe pair of hands for government announcements?
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Thanks for the insight Nick.
Wasn't it Alastair Darling who said this would be the worst recession in sixty years? If those in the know (the government and their advisers) are giving us such very different accounts, how do we know who to believe?
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A valid story, yes, but also over played and revelled in by the media.
The ministers political mistake was in repeating the poisonous phrase that had just been set as a trap for her. In the real world, the mistake was not actually explaining what green shoots she was seeing - specifically the bond market.
Thousands of job losses for sure, but some of those have been picked up by the supermarkets and thier ilk. Admittedly it would be a brave soul to use the "green shoots" analogy here. It would also be cruel to characterize them as no more than bonded labour, employed to feed the banality of "mass man". It is at least employment, but whose toil will be generating the money to feed those tills ?
In the final analysis, something has to be produced which is of value to someone else. Historically, this has been agriculture, manufacturing and more recently finance and information services. We are now being trounced in all these areas by nations which still have early 20th century labour rates and relations.
Which way next for Brittania ?
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Nick
Your coverage of the story was quite legitimate and I for one cannot understand why you feel the need to defend yourself.
This government has mishandled and misunderstood this recession (slump?) since the word go.
The point I raised yesterday that they are in such a mess that Baroness Vadera was clutching at straws remains valid.
Only those on the payroll of the government would think your comments unreasonable. Given our situation why on earth should any of us listen to them?
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When did Mandleson give you permission to print this non-story?
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I quite strongly feel that part of the role of our elected politicans in these times of economic woe is to do their level best to talk up the prospects for UK plc.
I dont mean of course to deliberately misinform the public as to the problems but we need politicans with positive outlooks and solutions.
It is in this regard the Tory party are woefully inadequate. They have no answers of substance to the problems and whilst they are groping slowly towards a coherent set of answers. I for one am please HMG are doing their best to point towards the light at the end of the tunnel.
Lord alone knows the BBC and other media outlets are talking us down into an ever deepening pit of despair and hopelessness. Given how dependent our economic health is of market sentiment this is an irresponsible attitude that is damaging us as a nation.
Noone conquered the world with such a negative, "can't do" attitude.
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ThIs is a big story, an important story ,and you were right to bring it to light.
If there is a recovery it would be nice to know about it.
We need good news desperately.
I think Varderas answered the question appropriately and was not bullish about it.
I can also understand the distance the government put themselves from it .Mandy was superb on telly.
And it was too big an issue to ignore.
The problem about green shoots is that it depends on your circumstances.
There ARE signs that recovery is underway , and SOME people are in a position to do well out of what has happened. And as these are going to be the driving forces of a new recovery, that is important.
For OTHERS the costs of the crunch are now only too obvious and there is more bad news on the way.....it does not really matter if there is a green shoot or not, their losses are big and it is not clear what is going to get them out of this.
And there is a "have you stopped beating your wife ?"element to asking a government minister a question about whether or not there is a recovery in sight.
Yes and they are seen as too optimistic and blase about others' downfalls.
No and the government is seen as doing nothing , its policies not working.
So maybe the best answer is always to say..."it is too early to say, and by the time we know for sure, we'll already know".
In the meantime, the sun is rising a couple of minutes earlier every day, even though it is still freezing out there.
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Nick Robinson
As I said in my previous posts you are right on the button with this story. Indeed I heard a story today on the news which used the 'green shoots', with regard to Labour, this will be remembered. This women is completely out of touch and as John Redwood says its not just her spin stories which are out of touch, so is her business knowledge. Apparently she is costing the tax payer a fortune by her business decisions, if it shines a light on this, that would be good too.
I saw G. Brown on the news playing ping pong or rather attempting to, it seems its not just the economy hes no good at, he made an absolute fool of himself. Why do they do it?
Another thing I would be interested in, the dreadful Ed Balls is saying that education standards have dropped, hes blaming the schools. I find it incredible cheek coming from a man who can not even make sure exams are marked in time. Also who's been in power for eleven years, its more like the silly targets and dumming down by this Government.
You know theres a defining moment when a Government looses an election, yesterday I somehow believe was Labours. When J. McDonnall picked up the mace in Parliament, I think we all got a sense that democracy as we know it, has been killed by Labour.
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I can't believe you're not covering the MP's expenses story.
These people can't be bothered to produce such trifling matters as their receipts (or give them to their secretaries to produce), and they are taking very quick steps through parliament to make sure that we never find out exactly what they claim for.
It's rotten to the core.
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Oh, yeh, and what about John McDonnell highlighting the erosion of democracy in this country by the current government???????
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The green shoots gaffe DOES say something worth paying attention to. It is a worthwhile story.
Labour are still trying to spin and are indeed out of touch.
Its like the Gordon "saved the world" gaffe. It reveals that they think the problems are resolved and this is no more than a large and uncomfortable economic hiccough.
They are in denial and have yet to accept any responsibility laying all blame at the door of the unconnected to them "global problem". Hence no changes to the regulatory regime.
The problem is they are riding relatively high in the polls. Once the reality bites in and it becomes clear that these problems will probably last years and not months they will crash hard in the polls.
Will things be so bad that they will call an election not because they believe that they can win but because confidence in them is so low they are no longer credible?
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Nick
For left leaning posters to accuse you of making a story from words taken out of context amuses me no end.
One of the left's most oft quoted Mantras is Thatcher's: "There is no such thing as Society".
This is frequently used by the left to illustrate that Thatcher believed that helping others in trouble was not necessary.
When taken in context, she was saying that, if you cheated "society", you were not cheating an abstract concept, but the people who made up that society.
Sure it was not Watergate, but a gaffe by a senior minister is new nether-the-less. As you rightly say it illustrates this Government's bunker mentality towards the true extent of this recession.
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fadedfred:
"Enquiries and requests to be registered as house buyers had increased for the last 3 months and were now running at twice the level of this time last year.... if that isnt evidence of at least one green shoot, I would like to know what is."
Just one problem Fadedfred, as you point out, a significant portion of these enquiries have come form first time buyers. So it will only be good news once they have secured a mortgage and in the current climate that won't be easy.
So whilst many may be interested in buying a house, when it comes to cruncing the numbers - a good portion of these prospective buyers will find out that they have been wasting their time.
BTW did you also notice that according to just about every survey going - the UK housing market is going to continue to fall throughout 2009. Most forecasts suggest a reduction of 10-15%. So not the best of times to get on the property ladder after all.
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#2, quite right, what has Mr Robinson got to say about this particular cover-up?
It's not surprising that there's no confidence in this country.... after 12 years of New Labour lies no one believes in anything.
Wonder if Duke Digby would sack Gordon?
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3. At 1:49pm on 16 Jan 2009, U9461192
I agree
Nice defence from Nick, but done at a time when we have news about MP's expenses, the next faltering steps of realisation towards their failed economic policy and the failures of the Government's Education department again
So nice defence, but stop covering over the other bad news which the government is slipping out whilst you are navel gazing.
Hopefully now that Nick has felt the rough edge of things he can survive the imminent purge (Report on stories, not become the story) and actually start to ask revealing questions that get answered.
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"I will not allow house prices to get out of control and put at risk the sustainability of the future."
Gordon Brown, Chancellor of the Exchequer November 1997
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If she thought that a recession doesn't necessarily mean redundancies/closures, then she's even more deluded than brown and most definitely should not be advising anyone on business.
That's just another example of how totally ignorant she is.
Like the entire labour front bench (including Brown), she's simply out of her depth and should be pushing shopping trolleys about in car parks for tescos rather than having a job with any responsibility whatsoever.
Get them out now; have an election; they're all so obviously massively negligent we need to get rid of them before they destroy what little is left of the economy.
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As you'd expect from a professional journalist, Nick explains the all important context of the original 'green shoots' blog, which was a day of bad economic news.
What seems to have taken everybody by surprise, particularly anybody who swallowed Browns rather foolish remarks about an end to (Tory) boom-and-bust, is the rapidity of this downturn.
Rather than Browns implied economic stability, we are witnessing instead unprecedented volatility, which threatens businesses, particularly banking institutions, of almost any size.
Furthermore, as many can see, it will definately get worse before it gets better, as some pretty big names in business flounder and in some cases sink completely.
Hopefully though, out of the chaos will emerge an English people who are much more savvy about their politics.
It really is too important to leave completely up to professional politicians.
We English people must find a way which provides more immediate feedback and direction to these politicians and does not get 'lost' in a bureaucracy.
A vote cast once every four or five years is a completely inadequate mechanism in this age of almost permanently-wired connectivity.
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It's still not a serious story.
It's about someone falling over a planned media trip wire and journalists saying ha ha.
Her actual words were more or less what any normally prudent person would say in response to that particular question.
What she certainly wasn't doing was claiming a premature victory over recession, like poor old Vamp in 1991.
We all agree that what important people say and mean should be reported without fear or favour - but what journalists choose to imply by reference to now arcane contexts? Only if the remits to educate and inform are ignored in favour of the one about entertainment.
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another attempt (and a more polite one....)
The question of whether this government was downplaying the prospect of the recession before it happened and then being over-optimistic about the likelihood and timescale of recovery is an important one.
Is there anyone, anywhere, that seriously considers the above to still be a question???
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I thought these comments were only read by bloggers. Well done for reading and responding to them.
However, I think CockedDice hit the nail on the head
"...most people simply believe that the Westminister tit-for tat game of He Said, She Said is an irrelevance that only has any real interest to those in the Westminster village."
There are so many big issues and stories that should be ringing out from the News pages. You only have to read this blog to find them.
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If you link Milburn's new role of social mobility czar with the recent news that grammar schools are outperforming independent schools, you get the question: why aren't we creating more grammar schools? They were the great driving force for social mobilty from the 1940s to the 1970s, and many MPs were the beneficiaries.
It's time to outgrow the outdated, obsessive hatred of the 11+, and devise a modernised version of the tripartite system which keeps open, for all pupils, the options of academic, technical or vocational routes to individual career choices.
Don't pin your hopes on city academies or the new diploma courses. Neither will prove to be satisfactory - but it might take another 10 or 20 years for it to sink in.
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Well one thing is for certain Nick we will never see any Brown shoots!
Gordon Brown's skills and training drive is a dog's breakfast.
Looks like Duff Gordon has defaulted to his usual 'Midas in reverse gear'.
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Why is Ed Miliband looking so smug and nodding agreement with Hoon the Goon, yesterday (don't look to the BBC to find it look on Youtube) when only a couple of Months ago he agreed to reduce the UK carbon emmissions changing it from 60% to 80% by 2050, no doubt by the use of magic and dylithium crystals.
Does he feel that a few off set tree plantings may compensate for an addition 125,000 flights.
Or maybe the Gravy Train doesn't top at Heathrow.
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Quite right. And what she said does fly in the face of what we can see out here on the street.
It is noticeable that there is a dearth of cars and shoppers about. Our local shops are feeling the pinch and Waitrose, yes even Waitrose, seem to be low on stock (cash flow) and trying hard to attract with offers.
I was in Marks and Spencer in London Colney (a big flagship Marks near Elstree and Borehamwood) and its food store was bereft of customers. They again have the Dine in for £10 to attract the bees round the honeypot, although I have to say one can be resourceful and make a meal for £2 sans wine by buying basic good food.
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Slimey Schoolboy journalism
At Its best.!
Wouldn’t it be funny if there really were some green shoots?
And we look back at the Gaff
And see it was the start of the recovery.
I’m not saying that is the case.
But it Would be Very very very Funny if it turned out to be the case!
Keep up the Tomfoolery and continue to prey on the inexperienced.
Ho ho ho ho ho
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#25
I dont mean of course to deliberately misinform the public as to the problems
Why change the habit of a lifetime? That's what Labour have been doing for the past 10 years.
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Yes, it was a legitimate story.
But I would have liked Lady V's comments to have always been broadcast in the context of the question that was actually asked of her. It was by your old mate John Suchet, from ITN wasn't it ?
If the actual question is being broadcast as well as the answer, I can form my own view on the comments rather than have the BBC tell me they were disgraceful amid all the job losses...
The other criticism is that the fuller piece of the Lady V interview that was shown on News24 just before 6pm, had a very different feel to the bits that were selectively shown and re-sequenced on later bulletins....
As I say, I'm generally supportive of the BBC, but it went a bit wrong on this occasion, in the enthusiasm to report a scandal instead of reporting the news...
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Get in trouble, Nick? Mandelson tell you to get back to the keyborad and apologise?
Why don't you grow a backbone and tell him you're independent? Or meant to be might be more appropriate.
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Nick,
It is no doubt true that the Baroness made a mistake, which was rapidly picked up by people looking for silly ministerial slips.
I'd question whether it should have been the "top pick" for your blog.
That - on a day when Hoon announced the Heathrow expansion - and when Harman tried to slip in the attempt to limit FOI disclosures of MPs' expenses...
Maybe you just wanted to throw a bone that would keep the dogs howling away from those more critical events?
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#25 - Our 'economic health' is dependant on our ability to run an economy. It is in this regard the Labour Party have proved themselves to be woefully inadequate.
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Still no news on Damien Grieve and the inquiries?
Wonder when that will get buried when it comes clear that the police over reacted and abused power?
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I can think of good and bad reasons why the media have jumped on this (which I still think they have). 1) Because she is an enormously powerful figure in the Brown administration who has enjoyed the shadows, and a bit more scrutiny of her role may well be in the public interest. 2) She has habitually ignored (i.e. snubbed) media attention and this is payback.
Maybe it's a bit of both.
Either way, she is reputedly either a meanie who doesn't listen or a tough but sensible operator who can get things done. Or maybe both :-)
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You'd have to say, Nick, with everything else that's going on, this is a strange topic for a blog, albeit a bit of interaction is always welcome. Ex-generals denouncing Trident (only GBP20bn at stake after all), Tory threats to reverse the Heathrow decision (estimated cost GBP30bn, in 2007) and plans for a 'Bad Bank' (GBP100Bn?) are the top three stories on the politics pages, to say nothing of the Heathrow decision itself and MPs expenses slipping under the radar.
Surely one, if not all of these deserve greater scrutiny than a junior minister no-one knows making comments no-one really cares about?
Could it be that someone, somewhere is trying to regain the initiative on the news agenda?
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Nick
This story like so many others these days reflects a general dumbing down of political stories. It's all process or reduced to the level of 'celebrity politics'. Peolpe who say daft things get lots of coverage, exaggeration is rewarded. Sensible analysis or reasonable comment is boring. Why don't you put on roller skates and a silly wig and complete the 'process' you love so much.
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Nick
I cannot understand why you felt the need to justify or explain this story but I am assuming that your decision to do so was triggered by more than remarks from a couple of contributors to your blog. You have been the subject of much more credible adverse comment in the past without feeling the need to explain.
The story was manifestly legitimate and the reporting of it was factual and perfectly fair.
Can anybody really believe that the fact that words uttered by a Government minister might have been ill-judged or hapless makes it illegitimate to report them ? Surely not reporting them would be more worthy of criticism
?
Go on - tell us who or what really rattled your cage.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I think there is also an issue about how many 'ministers' GB has created ,ennobled and then presumably paid or remunerated from the public purse. Don't they have anyone elected as an MP who could do these jobs? How many of these back door punters are there?What does all this cost??
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Still a non-story, and now you look even more defensive as you realise you have fallen into another one of those pointless media circle jerks about trivia when there is actual serious news to report - as you yourself point out, ironically.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
The RRU seems to be strangely quiet at the moment...
Confused by Nick's rather damning comments?
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shellingout @ 28
I can well believe that Nick is not covering the MP's expenses story.
Because it is non-news.
Everybody surely knows by now that they are troughing it bigtime but more fool us for allowing that via our disinterest in politics.
We need to be informed of the things we don't know, but despite things like FOI, 'they' still somehow manage to keep their secrets.
By the way, in my opinion, there isn't a 'real-world' and another world.
It is more a case of many parallel worlds.
For example, professional politicians mostly inhabit their very own little world.
The 'rich' has another world all of their own.
So do working people, the poor, the dispossessed, the retired and so on.
This is, I hope, a more realistic way of looking at the situation than just coming out with tired old clichés like 'the real world'.
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CrookedDice
"...most people simply believe that the Westminister tit-for tat game of He Said, She Said is an irrelevance that only has any real interest to those in the Westminster village."
................................................................
The tit-for-tat game is merely for our benefit, and not for those in Westminster.
I expect politicians (from all sides) will enjoy a brandy and a havana cigar in the Commons bar together while they all have a good laugh about the shenanigans of the day.
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#38
Her actual words were more or less what any normally prudent person would say in response to that particular question.
What she certainly wasn't doing was claiming a premature victory over recession, like poor old Vamp in 1991.
As Nick's follow-up reveals she is so incompetent that in March of last year she didn't even realise a recession was nailed on. That's aside from the previous decade of blithely running massive budget deficits and accepting praise from the economically dysphasic front-bench for presiding over the biggest build up of national and private debt in history.
Yeah! What could possibly go wrong!
They hug their pillows at night and wish to God they were merely incompetent.
This government is to economics what Eddie the Eagle is to pole-vaulting.
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I still think there is a tone of desperate justification in your response Nick.
And no wonder. You journalists love a whiff of this kind of 'scandal', but most people recognise it as entirely superficial.
This is why we end up with such duff politicians. They have to be the kinds of people that are happy obsessing over how they come across to the media. Great at saying nothing in a million different ways.
Rather than intellectual heavyweights that might make the odd gaffe in the spotlight but are honest and good at their job.
You said yourself Nick that 'being the consummate "backroom girl" that she is and not a frontline politician she did not spot the trap.'
Why should she? I'd rather her head was buried in the economy than media trap-spotting. You Guys are Not The Story.
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Its fun though (you must admit) watching all these Zanu-NuLabour functionaries trying to sound like they know what their doing, as they flounder and posture while the economic depression juggernaut bears down on them. Hehe.
Even Lordy Mandy now has fear in his eyes after his meetings. He knows the game is up. This is now becoming a repeat of Sunny Jim's government in the 70s.
As they say in the market, the real question is, at what point do we reach 'capitulation' then we can clear-out and start again.
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BTW, all credit to you Nick for responding to posts. Most wouldn't
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Obviously the government will try to play down bad news. On the other hand I don't accept Nicks defence.
The only defence is that political commentators like to make mischief. Demonstrating at length that someone on the inside doesn't have a political insiders knowledge is their speciality.
Even if the victim is employed for their business skills.
There will be viewers who are interested in this speciality although they probably decreased after several similar gloating interviews by the end of Newsnight.
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@9 Kinglone
"
Also perhaps - why can the government never get their figures even remotely near reality?"
Its obvious really Brown thinks that 5 x 52 = 275
As I pointed out yesterday this is an error factor of 5.4%
By this assumption if you multiply the 15 quid error by the number of families you get a 400million error in the budget.
do this for every tax that Brown has meddled with and you arrive at a grand total of about 1 trillion quid
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onwardho @26 said..
"The problem about green shoots is that it depends on your circumstances.
There ARE signs that recovery is underway "
Perhaps you could elaborate on those signs?
Please don't even try to mention the Supermarkets plans for more stores/more staff.People have to eat regardless of the economic situation..and perhaps are electing to eat more at home ,rather than going out,due to cost.
So what real signs can you see of a recovery under way?
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#3 U9461192
Has it spot on.
I con't care too much about this being covered or not - its only a few words by someone that noone outside westminster had ever heard of before. Whats one 'wasted' blog entry (if it was indeed wasted).
How about following up on the REAL meat of the news?
The labour government are so out of touch, out of control, and living in their un-accountable la-la land, that even their back benchers are frustrated to the point of direct action (grabbing the mace).
Given that - how the hell do you think the general public in this country feel about them????
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This really was a non story. The plain simple fact of the matter is that we have allowed ourselves to be talked in to this down turn, yes we would have had one anyway but if we'd have all stopped over hyping it it would not have been so bad. Every one I know has started saving, not a bad thing, but if nobody spend then it just worse.
therefore, maybe it's time to talk up our economy and then just may we could start on the road back up. Peolpe should stop moaning and be more positive.
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Nick
I think you have returned in 2009 with a pretty good record
a gaff is a gaff and should be reported
Also your blog refering to Digby was also on the money. Although I did put the story into an entry within Green shoots 1
Do I get a finders fee ;-)
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Of course GREEN SHOOTS should carry a GOVERNMENT HEALTH WARNING .....
The Tories are ALLERGIC to GOOD NEWS !
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61 johnconstable
Don't remember coming out with a cliche like 'the real world'. I don't know who you were referring to but it wasn't me.
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Really the green shoots story is a non-entity, compared to Mr Brown’s business expert saying that this recession would have no redundancies or closures. WHAT!?! Sorry this woman is meant to be an expert and she didn’t realise that people would be made redundant and businesses would close? Really? Where did she get her expertise from? And Gordon made her a baroness? Crickey, I’m sorry Derrick but I am meant o respect our PM, when he chooses people like this to advise him?
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Nick -
This just shows that the media are more interested in finding some new scandal or hot story to report rather than real news.
If there were important stories about job losses that day why weren't you commenting on the political implications of them, rather than whether or not is was wrong of some minister no-one's heard of to say the two words 'green shoots'?
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Dear Nick "Chemical Ali" - pretending you have been besieged by comments and had to justify making news out of the "green shoots" debacle - if you read the comments in yesterday's blog there are very few taking that line. As we said yesterday, you used the headline to dedicate half your column to the Tory comment made in 1992.
Nice try.
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66. At 3:27pm on 16 Jan 2009, CaptainJuJu wrote:
BTW, all credit to you Nick for responding to posts. Most wouldn't
Your not wrong, head over to www.labourlist.org.
Talk about a slaughter, and not a response in sight.
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Nick,
I'm beginning to believe you are putting a New Year Resolution into effect! Good post.
Without trying to make too much of the 'green shoots' comment, here in God's Waiting Room unemployment was 40% higher in Nov 2008 than 12 months prior to that. That looks suspiciously like 'business hibernation' to me.
And the High Street in God's Waiting Room, which is, appropriately, Terminus Road, is looking pretty grim with too many empty retail units.
And for those who don't get it, the Waiting Room is Eastbourne.
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#64
"Rather than intellectual heavyweights that might make the odd gaffe in the spotlight but are honest and good at their job."
Anyone particular in mind? They haven't "saved the world" recently by any chance?
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So not only is the video of John McDonnell removed, but so are any comments.
This country and the BBC in particular are relishing their descent into authoritarianism it seems.
In the days of new media, when people can tell each other the news, the BBC needs to be very careful it doesn't make itself irrelevant.
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If I went to the supermarket and bought a dozen eggs, and then I take them back the next day saying "but I thought these were quail's eggs; it didn't say "not quail's eggs" on the box, it just said eggs"...
...would that mean that tesco's are at fault, or that I'm simply a mindless idiot with no understanding of what eggs are?
"what made this crunch different from those of 10 or 20 years ago was that they had come with redundancies and closures" !!! eh? what kind of recession doesn't have redundancies/closures? What world are these people living in and why does the chief adviser on business matters to the PM not understand any maths/economics/business at all?
I fail to see why Nick should apologise for the previous topic being a "non-story" - it was highly relevant when before/during a depression the chief business adviser to the PM is constantly saying things that either make no logical sense or which are totally untrue.
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Is it just me or does she look very smug in the pic in the article?
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61. At 3:20pm on 16 Jan 2009, JohnConstable wrote:
shellingout @ 28
I can well believe that Nick is not covering the MP's expenses story.
Because it is non-news
Surely the government moving to alter an Act of parliment soley for the purpose of hiding how they spend our money on themselves is much more of a news item than the one above.
Surely the light of publicity is what get people interested in the topic or more importantly the Hypocrisy.
And surely an MP stealing the speakers mace is worth a word or 2
Dont you think?
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Nah, people were right the first time round.
This was a non story
The only reason Mandleson and others reacted later was because the former chairman of the young Conservatives had overblown the story in the first place.
If it had been left as it was, a casual, not very interesting remark, then nothing else would have been said - which would have been perfectly fine.
A story is a good story because an editor/journalist/publishes decides it is to fit their own agenda - not because it is actually of public interest. which this one most definitely isn't.
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Out of touch?
Brown said today about the 2012 olympics "We are ahead of schedule - 3,000 people have already been employed, 11,000 next year and in total about 30,000 people will have worked here by 2012," he said.
"It is a huge employment generator and job creator for the future."
If he thinks 30,000 over three years is huge what is he going to do when he has 3 million unemployed?
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Out of touch?
"The UK's nuclear deterrent should be scrapped, according to a group of retired senior military officers. "
and yet Brown wants to press ahead in spending the money
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Nick needs to take a break.
Yes Vadera represents the government, but she was entitled to say what she said surely.
Nick should stop OVER-READING into people's words. She was not parroting Lamont, was she, so the hapless link is really overdone.
Lamont's speech was a dogmatic public address to a conference in which he referred to "the green shoots of economic spring" as part of a long argument that the UK was coming out of a recession. He liked using metaphors in his rhetoric. Gordon Brown was entitled to his opinions in the 1990s. Surely Vadera is also entitled to her own opinions and to express them with certain sensitivity. She did it on this occasion.
I don't approve of the BBC Political Editor's love-in with Alistair Stewart or ITV on this occasion. It's not in the interests of BBC public service.
The situation which occurred was so benign: Alistair asked Vadera, in the last 15 or so seconds of a metaphor-question laden ITV lunchtime news interview:
"Final and briefest thought possible -you're a former banker and businessperson yourself and now a Minister, when will we see the green shoots of recovery?"
Vadera clearly recognised the economic downturn and uncertainties such as job losses when she replied back to the question. She said:
“Well, it’s a very uncertain world right now globally but, I wouldn’t want to be the one to predict it. I’m seeing a few green shoots but it’s a little bit too early to say exactly how they’ll grow”
This was a careful answer trying to instil some confidence for people watching, but not giving any forecast of what exactly will happen. She was expressing her opinion, sensitively, but saying it's premature to say what will happen. It's the Government's job to instil people with confidence.
Nick took two words out of a full and sensitive answer to a question and tried to suggest there was ill practice in her answer by linking her with Lamont. Yet she was closing an interview in a light, midday news programme, and using the interviewer's terms when answering the question.
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Just been chatting to some of the bods in the City who came up with some interesting ideas on where the recession might be heading:
1). Following the bail out of AIB the Irish Government requires new funds from a bond issue. If these fail to take off the country effectively becomes bankrupt and needs bailing out.
2). The EU would be strongly against Ireland being bailed out by the IMF (who have limited funds anyway) and would like to see an EU solution if possible for political reasons.
3). The only EU countries with sufficient funds for such a bail-out would be France and Germany but this would be a real stretch - ideally, and politically, they would like the UK to be part of the solution.
4). This would entail the UK joining the Euro on an 'emergency' basis meaning that the UK Government can argue that there is no time to hold a referendum on the issue and will push through joining the Euro as 'extraordinary measures for extraordinary times.'
Sound far fetched? Well, plenty of mileage in this for the current Government.
First, the UK joins the Euro without the 'need' for a referendum due to the 'extraordinary times we face.' Second, France and Germany's need for the UK would allow the UK to negotiate from a strong position on joining the Euro, for example, dealing with CAP etc. Third, and perhaps the clincher, this would totally throw the Conservatives into disarray who would be torn apart by in-fighting and likely implode over the issue.
End result - join the Euro on favourable terms with no need for a referendum, Tories torn apart over the issue - five more years for Labour!
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#62 Shellingout
I think that those who see politics as a point scoring game are largely the politicans themselves and journalists who would rather report on slip ups by minor ministers than comment on the larger issues of the day.
I feel most people would rather the airtime given to such stories was spent properly scrutinising the stories behind the soundbites.
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5. At 1:52pm on 16 Jan 2009, fadedfred wrote:
Isnt it a bugger when your victim is proved right. After hearing your jokey comments about Ms Vadera on Today, I set out on my rounds tuned to Radio 5 Live. On and after 10.00 am Victoria Derbyshire and the 5 Live News kept repeating a news release from the Royal Institiution of Chartered Surveyors (The estate agents trade union) which said that enquiries and requests to be registered as house buyers had increased for the last 3 months and were now running at twice the level of this time last year. Most seemed to be first time buyers hoping to enter the market.
===
I have just returned from our local estate agent. Their sales are curently 50% of target. The problem is that would-be first time buyers cannot get mortgages, because of a lack of funds and because they do not have the necessary deposit now demanded.
It's all very well going in and registering an interest, but that does't mean you will actually be able to buy a property.
"Sales volumes are currently about 60% lower than a year ago while prices, according to the latest Halifax survey, fell by 16% in the course of last year.
And the number of new mortgages approved for house buying in November was 67% lower than a year ago, according to the Bank of England's latest figures.
As such they suggest that sales will fall further in the coming months."
BTW I have registered my interest in a Bugatti Veyron, but I don't think I will actually be buying one!
PS Just seen this:
"Honda has announced that it plans to stop production at its plant in Swindon for the months of April and May, because of a collapse in global sales.
The carmaker had already announced in November the plant would be shut during February and March.
This represents the longest continuous halt in production at any UK car plant."
Not many green shoots in Swindon then, or have Honda got it wrong as well?
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71. At 3:39pm on 16 Jan 2009, Stevie_me_me_me wrote:
This really was a non story. The plain simple fact of the matter is that we have allowed ourselves to be talked in to this down turn, yes we would have had one anyway but if we'd have all stopped over hyping it it would not have been so bad. Every one I know has started saving, not a bad thing, but if nobody spend then it just worse.
===
Get out there and buy a new Honda then, Stevie, your country needs you!
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Sorry Nick but you can't use the fact that she and Mandelson did media interviews about the misplaced remark to justify the original media storm - they were only doing so because of the media storm. A case of the Westminster village eating itself methinks...
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Out of touch?
Labour state that Heathrow needs another runway because Paris, Frankfurt and Amsterdam all have four runways
This is not quite true
Paris
Charles de gaulle 2 operational and a second airport with 2 although only one operational at a time as the other is for a diferent wind direction
Frankfurt
3 runways 2 main and one for a change of wind direction
Amsterdam
Schipol 4 runways 2 main and 2 for two seperate wind directions
Of these only Paris has additional airports nearby
London has 5 airports
Luton 1 runway, Stansted 1 runway with a second being planned, Gatwick 1 runway, London city airport 1 runway and Heathrow 2 runways
So London already has 6 runways operational at the same time that is the same as Paris Frankfurt and Amsterdam added together!
It is a complete fabrication that business will go elsewhere if Heathrow doesnt get another runway we already have more capacity with stansted almost certain to get another runway.
Boris has put forward probably the best solution putting an airport to the east in the estuary area couple this with a link into the high speed rail links and we would have people flying into there and not cramming more into a tiny space in the built up area of west London
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#86 - he will classify them as something else so they don't count.
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Can anyone out there tell me what qualifications the dear Baroness has to be:
a) Business Minister?
b) A 'Baroness'?
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Seems like our Irish friends are doing the common sense thing and reducing public sector wages to reduce their defecit.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/4241720/Ireland-plans-drastic-cuts-to-prevent-debt-crisis.html
It's the first thing you would expect a sensible government to do.
Can't imagine that Gordon would risk doing this for the UK and alienating his voters. Especially with talk of an election in the air!
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Name checks for those who support the government minister! Word up to Nick my fellow baldy!
I would agree it is a gaffe and her apologising and the Prince of Darkness smiling about it just prove what a bad situation we really are in. Brown made his political career from bashing the Tories, driving such a force into the party that they have taken 10 years and 3 leaders to recover. Slogan upon slogan about how bad they were, much hay made for speeches such as Lamont's and others.
Now the boot is on the other foot it is non-news. I'm curious but if a minister makes a gaffe, and people are suffering directly contradicting her, it is slightly more than a gaffe, but more an embarrassment. This will haunt the government in months to come - let's return to it in say April when there are still no green shoots appearing. The US is still in the midst of this, and we are 6 months behind them economically!
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73. At 3:46pm on 16 Jan 2009, onward-ho wrote:
Of course GREEN SHOOTS should carry a GOVERNMENT HEALTH WARNING .....
The Tories are ALLERGIC to GOOD NEWS !
===
"Citigroup to split as losses grow"
" 'Brutal' outlook for carmakers"
" Four-month shutdown for Honda UK"
" UK car sales fall to 12-year-low"
" Toyota shuts plants for 11 days"
" Intel profits drop 90%"
"High Street hit by downturn"
"Honda slashes jobs and production"
" Sales slide at Currys and Argos"
" Grattan to shed over 1,000 staff"
" Barclays cuts another 2,100 jobs"
" UK economy downturn 'frightening'"
" Mortgage lending still falling"
" House sales 'continuing to fall'"
" House prices 'fell 15.9% in 2008'"
" Mortgage rationing gets tougher"
===
All from the BBC website today.
Not much good news there, onward-ho!
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Oh and any comment on the MP who decided he was absolutely outraged on the state of our democracy over Heathrow so he grabbed the mace and was banned for 5 days from Westminster?
Surely this is worth a blog.
Another right of parliament ridden roughshod over by Brown!
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If the story of the day was 'job losses' and 'heavy economic gloom' why did you not comment on those matters?
Once again you appear to take the Government line and not, what is, by your own admission, the story/stories of the day.
Do come on, Mr. Robinson, you are not stupid, you know what is going on, so please credit some of us with seeing through the spin.
The Minister [another unelected stooge] made a silly error, if you admitted that out-right, then got on with the real matters worrying many people, it could have been so much earier.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
96. At 4:41pm on 16 Jan 2009, badsworthboy wrote:
Can anyone out there tell me what qualifications the dear Baroness has to be:
a) Business Minister?
b) A 'Baroness'?
===
a) A friend of James Gordon Brown.
b) See a) above!
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Any hint of a sign that anything is getting better should be highlighted as Shriti Vadera did.
We are battered every day with the pessimists wringing their hands , revelling in telling us how bad things are and how they will get far worse in the future.
The recession will not be beaten by these doom- mongerers , we must have optimism which will start to give confidence.
It is in the make-up of the British people to
look for the bad news and we seem to enjoy having our backs to the wall.
Talk to people abroad and they are getting on with life and not wingeing all the time. Some will have it very hard, and we should be sorry for them, but we cannot allow this to pull us all down. Let the optimists speak out with any good news out there either here or abroad.
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I bet the brilliant Baroness Vadera also gets an honorary doctorate at Oxford quicker than Baroness T ever did. After all she has made such a huge contribution to the success of the UK.
As for MP's expenses not now being made public, that story has really been wonderfully suppressed and corralled by all parties. Good to see they can work together when they want to.
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Shellingout 28
Actually it could be MPs expenses which may be the non story. According to the news this morning the reason why they stopped MPs from detailing every single item is because it was costing more to implement it than the smaller expenses themselves.
It just gives you some idea of how inept the system of Government is.
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104. At 5:01pm on 16 Jan 2009, 2mjogger
Another new blogger, hhmm.
You clearly don't remember James Gordon Brown in the early 1990's then, do you?
"Brown made his political career from bashing the Tories, driving such a force into the party that they have taken 10 years and 3 leaders to recover. Slogan upon slogan about how bad they were, much hay made for speeches such as Lamont's and others."
Thanks, gthebounceranddavincimaster, saves me re-typing exactly the same thing.
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104 2mjogger
I have nothing against optimism - so long as we're being told the truth.
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Nick - I think you are "damned if you do, and damned if you don't", i.e. you will get brickbats from both ends of the political spectrum.
I think you're right to comment on what she said, and I think it's right to make a justification. I seem to recall a similar circumstance regarding David Davis etc., and you published a follow-up post.
I personally reckon you're coming through a period of reflection, and as a result are becoming more sceptical of the whole New Labour mindset - and more balanced as a result.
I hope you feel free to have a pop at all political parties - maybe the BBC is also becoming less intimidated of New Labour (e.g. because of A. Gilligan affair), and more willing to call out the Govt. as appropriate.
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Labour theme of the day - 'everyone who is complaining is actually making the recession worse'.
yes, that's what it is - people complaining has stopped everyone else from buying cars, properties, white goods, electricals, whatever.
sod the recession, I'm not in massive debt - I should man up and take out a big loan - for the greatness of Britain! I'm off to buy some 'stuff', who's with me?!
Honestly, you people.
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Here's a news item worthy of covering, and one that would save money from the public purse as well.
===
Tories plan to cut Commons by 60 MPs
By George Parker and Jean Eaglesham
Published: January 12 2009 23:18 | Last updated: January 12 2009 23:18
David Cameron plans to cut the size of the House of Commons by more than 60 MPs, under a plan radically to redraw Britain’s parliamentary map that could make it easier for the Conservatives to win elections.
Mr Cameron said an incoming Tory government would aim to cut the size of the Commons – with 650 seats at the next election – by at least 10 per cent. Safe Labour seats in Wales and the inner cities could be axed.
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2mjogger 104
So your advocating that Government and the media should tell untruths just so you will feel better. Then when the bad news comes knocking on your door, you will be so much in ignorance you will not no what to do. Brown really would love your approach to life, he would definitely get in Government again.
Furthermore people abroad as you put it, are not in our position, with debt incurred by Labour now predicted to last a generation or more.
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Susan_Croft
Actually it could be MPs expenses which may be the non story. According to the news this morning the reason why they stopped MPs from detailing every single item is because it was costing more to implement it than the smaller expenses themselves.
It just gives you some idea of how inept the system of Government is.
...................................................................
Oh, cynical old me....and I thought they might be trotting this through Parliament at a rate of knots because they're trying to hide something. :-)
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Pot_Kettle @ 87
Notice that it is nearly always retired, not active, generals who come out of the closet to complain about this or that in military matters.
Nevertheless, they have a point about Trident, which is really all about (by definition) mega-ego 'UK' politicians supping at the big boys table in the UN.
In a fully functioning, properly integrated EU, then the EU member countries would be picking up the tab for Trident and the EU itself would have the seat at the UN Security Council.
I believe that that will happen, but probably not for another decade or so (by then the UK should have reverted to its constituent parts i.e. England, Scotland and Wales).
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Yes, the 'green shoots' comment was a bit of a gaff, but not half as bad as "no more boom and bust".
This government does not undertstand economics. The devaluation of the pound against other major currencies disproves NuLab's 'Britain is well-palced' theory.
No doubt Brown will soon be telling us "this will not affect the pound in your pocket".
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Carrots @ 84
Now if that had been a fully functional mace adorned with lots of vicious spiky bits on the head, rather than the ornamental sort, and it had been embedded in an appropriate place ... well that would have been news.
As it was, according to the blog of MP Nadine Dorries, the HoC mace was just flung into the seat normally occupied by the 'beast of bolsover'.
As Nadine says 'this place is bonkers'.
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yellowbelly1959
You quote a story "Tories plan to cut Commons by 60 MPs"
No idea if this is correct, but it is an interesting idea! As most MPs just vote how they are told by their party whips, do we actually need so many of them, each secretly running up huge bills at a well known department store?
Also, do we still need Scottish MPs at Westminster? After all, Scottish MPs cannot vote on matters that affect their own constituencies - because Scottish affairs are now decided at Holyrood. But unfairly, Scottish MPs can vote on purely English matters. This constitutional mess created by NuLab has effectively left the Scottish MPs at Westminster without a real job.
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yellowbelly1959
Good work in disposing of the "this will stop being a real disaster when we stop being pessimistic" brigade.
Brown presided over a Boom caused by interest rates that were too low. Most other countries did the same, led by the US, but that does not absolve him of blame.
Asset prices will have to fall and debt paid back, before a recovery starts. There will be more damage than the benefit of the good times.
btw Does anyone know of a country that did not disasterously lower its interest rates 2001-2007?
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shellingout @ 74
You did not mention the real world but I followed on with a comment about it because that phrase is often dredged up when people talk about MP's as not living in the 'real world'.
I hope that has cleared that up.
I note that your tag on here is 'shellingout'.
Have you (and other readers) ever considered that the 'shelling out' part is relatively controllable.
The crucial bit is hanging on to what you earn, that is, mainly ensuring that the Government does not 'intercept' your earnings before they reach your hands.
It can be done but first you have to throw off the yoke and decide to become a free person ... in essence you must stop being a PAYE drone.
My apologies in advance if I have misinterpreted your status.
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This is really what people think of the Heathrow experience:
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/hudson-crash-landing-still-better-than-heathrow-200901161514/
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119 john constable.
No offence taken.
I fully intend to become free person soon.
It looks very likely that I will lose my job and we were planning to go and live abroad. Not sure if we will still be able to, but anything's possible.
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I'm another who thought the coverage was over the top.
I'm not a labour supporter and they are guilty of far too much spin and maybe here their chickens came home to roost. Having said that:
- the reporter deliberately set a trap - is that necessary?
- as others have said, why aren't you pursuing the HoC expenses issue more vigorously?
- it's a sad commentary on modern politics when politicians of all parties have to be so totally preoccupied with presentation at the expense of substance.
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I confidently predict that the Producers of Coronation Street will be drafted in to "Remove" or " cover up" all traces of Ms Vadera from all future televised press conferences in case she causes further offence!
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Nick
#111 makes a good point and one few of the public are aware of: the unfairness of the distribution of seats at Westmister.
I'm no fan of the Tories and when they were last in power they were almost as biassed as Labour have been in the operation of the Boundary Commission (remember John Banham, everyone?) but they are right on this.
It takes significantly fewer votes to elect a Labour MP than a Tory one (and it's even worse in Lib Dem conbstituencies) because Labour have deliberately not done tenough of the readjustment of constituency boundaries which is needed to make the system fairer.
There should be fewer seats in the so-called Labour heartlands as relative population concentration has moved away from Scotland, Wales and the north east to the south and west.
Rebalancing could of course also be achieved by creating more seats in the south and west but most of us would agree that reducing the number of MPs by merging seats with small electorates is a better option, and would save shedloads of money...
This won't be easy of course: turkeys never voted for Christmas. Some rough justice is probably inevitable. The really intractable problem is what to do with the Isle of Wight, which has a huge electorate but not enough to justify two seats.
Of course, if the Scots go for full independence in 2010 the problem will HAVE to be addressed...
One for you Nick, or maybe for Mark Easton to address?
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Distant Traveller #117
Not quite correct there are many aspects of Scottish life which can only be legislated for at Westminster, these are known as Reserved matters.Having said that your general complaint does have much substance and I can assure you that many Scots also agree that the current set up is manifestly unfair to the English due to the dogs breakfast Labour created by pushing through Devolution. It is now coming back to bite them big time. Another example of short sighted measures being applied by this government for short term gain.
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I blogged elsewhere before December that one of the tactics New Labour under Peter Mandleson will use the first half of this year is to "talk up" the economy.
Keep repeating the mantra that "we can see the light at the end of the tunnel", or there are "green shots of recovery", or any other plattitude you care to use.
Baroness Vadera maybe jumped the gun a bit an announced it on an unfortunate day, but I'd expect more and more positive rhetoric as we slide deeper into the mire.
Until June or July when we see the true cost of all of this, (factor in big private pension losses/failures and public pension black holes) the government's plans have frittered away billions and we are still losing jobs. Then we'll see the vote of no confidence being mooted. By August... bye bye Gordo!
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116. JohnConstable
Fair point
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I don't know who first said this but "All professions are conspiracies against the laity" comes to mind when thinking about MP's and their expenses.
So, if we accept the above, then it is only natural for MP's to close ranks when 'outsiders' starting quibbling about their expenses.
Generally I think that we should try to take more account of human nature when evaluating these matters.
Furthermore, it is usually the 'independents' who are most likely to break ranks and stand up to say 'this isn't right'.
The ex-Independent MP Martin Bell has been particularly outspoken in that respect.
Which is a gigantic clue ... vote independent and you are more likely to get people who actually represent you.
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117. At 5:47pm on 16 Jan 2009, DistantTraveller wrote:
yellowbelly1959
You quote a story "Tories plan to cut Commons by 60 MPs"
No idea if this is correct, but it is an interesting idea!
===
It is true. It is in an interview David Cameron did with the FT.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2865e52c-e0f5-11dd-b0e8-000077b07658.html
Maybe I should have your job for a day on a trial basis, eh Nick?
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#126 delphius1 wrote:
By August... bye bye Gordo!
===
I like that, "By August, bye Gordon!"
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Anyone been watching the despondent news today about the drop in bank shares?The rumour is more of taxpayers money is be sunk into the major banks to bail them out yet again.
Already, "our," shares are worth far less than the 37 billion handed over so far.
I think Nick was right to highlight this particular story; because it just shows how incompetent the people are at running this country at the moment.
Baroness Vadera must have known the banks were in trouble again when she made this rather daft comment. Just goes to show another Labour inspired cover up.
Don`t be put off Nick - just find out what the hell is going on with our dosh please!!
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Green shoots (2)
I never thought I would see so many people
crying to put so many others on to the dole queue.
I never thought I would see so many people calling for banks to close and people to be put on the street.
I hope lots of people now see exactly what a conservative government would mean.
I hope lots of people demand an end to a callous bunch of self serving tory gangsters.
I expect anything near the truth on this blog to be put in the bin. Hello fairlyopenmind working OT
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classic BBC spin.
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131. At 7:24pm on 16 Jan 2009, briangare
The ban on short selling of financial shares ended today, so maybe this is just the start?
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I am quite intrigued, at long last Nick Robinson deigns to respond to reasonable questions and opinion here. I would like very much to know what criteria is used to select the topic of his increasingly infrequent blogs. On occasions too numerous to mention, a newsworthy political item appears to have largely been ignored in favour of arguably less significant stories.
As a regular reader for eighteen months or so and occasional contributor for about a year, I can't remember many posted topics pursued with quite the tenacity both Peston and Robinson affored George Osborne and his alleged conversations on a Russian "entrepreneurs" yacht off a Greek island. At the same time and frequently after, Lord Mandelson's perceived conflict of interest has been largely ignored, inspite of various, (not so), subtle hints and reminders.
Leading myself gently by the arm back on topic, Business Minister Shriti Vadera surely was neither yesterdays or todays major political talking point. Gordon Brown and his sycophants, and I'm tempted to include Nick Robinson here, don't help themselves do they?
With the quality of contributors here, is a daily blog of pertinent political points too much to ask, especially since crucial news of the day is often neglected in favour spurious topics.
Moderators, I have tempered my language and chosen my words carefully, I can't see any reason to remove this post.
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derekbarker
So - which particular Tory gangster has engineered the current situation - because that's quite an achievement when they've been in opposition for the last 12 years!
I'm sorry - but the blame for the current economic situation lies fairly and squarelywith the current government. The fact that they're now clutching at straws, and throwing good money after bad trying to recover the economy, just demonstrates the kind of financial ineptitude which got us here in the first place.
Did they regulate the FSA when they had the chance? No!
Did they see events which were happening in the USA a full year before they happened in the UK? No!
Did they put any money away when they had the opportunity? No!
Are they the party that will save the British economy? No!
Are they going to get re-elected? No!
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Nick,
meanwhile, in the real world two soldiers are killed in Afghanistan, and we were told by the MoD that they died as a result of bombs, IEDs, and that they were very brave etc... No doubt when the PM reads out their names on Wednesday he will point out that there is an investigation into their deaths as it would seem possible that they died as a result of 'friendly fire'.
It is not only about the economy and people in government not being elected. It is about the war on terror, still, the people die, the women but worst of all the innocent children. Meanwhile I will probably have my own breaking news with regard to asbestos in the House of Commons. Watch this space.
By the way with the sharp movements in the share prices of the banking sector surely even this stupid government must see that there needs to be a full end to the practice of short selling.TAG.
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Nucleosome 89
Just how would you and your city bods get around the fact that we in Britain do not meet the criteria for joining the euro. In essense they don't want us.
I'm very surprised if you work in the City you do not know this. Your assertion that France and Germany need us so badly they would do anything to get us to join the euro
is so bizarre, I would like you to explain it.
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132. At 7:29pm on 16 Jan 2009, derekbarker wrote:
Green shoots (2)
I never thought I would see so many people
crying to put so many others on to the dole queue.
===
James Gordon Brown made a career of it in the 1990s.
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I am quite intrigued, at long last Nick Robinson deigns to respond to reasonable questions and opinion here. I would like very much to know what criteria is used to select the topic of his increasingly infrequent blogs. On occasions too numerous to mention, a newsworthy political item appears to have largely been ignored in favour of arguably less significant stories.
As a regular reader for eighteen months or so and occasional contributor for about a year, I can't remember many posted topics pursued with quite the tenacity both Peston and Robinson affored George Osborne and his alleged conversations on a Russian "entrepreneurs" yacht off a Greek island. At the same time and frequently after, Lord Mandelson's perceived conflict of interest has been largely ignored, inspite of various, (not so), subtle hints and reminders.
Leading myself gently by the arm back on topic, Business Minister Shriti Vadera surely was neither yesterdays or todays major political talking point. Gordon Brown and his sycophants, and I'm tempted to include Nick Robinson here, don't help themselves do they? In fairness, the lady herself appears to have responded somewhat naively to an experienced interviewers loaded question but nevertheless, charitably putting aside her ham fisted involvement with the Woolworths demise, she doesn't inspire confidence does she?
Presumably we'll get an opportunity to discuss the shameful manner in which MP's expenses were quietly slipped out.
With the quality of contributors here, is a daily blog of pertinent political points too much to ask, especially since crucial news of the day is often neglected in favour spurious topics.
Moderators, I have tempered my language and chosen my words carefully, I can't see any reason to remove this post.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#136
Are you seriously that thick shellingout?
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Thick? I'm not the one who voted this lot in!
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Nick
Perhaps people wouldn't question the news so much if you and the BBC stuck to the facts?
Saying that "1000's of jobs were lost" is as close to a lie as makes no difference. What actually happened was "1000's of job losses over the next year were announced", of course, that doesn't fit into a nice soundbite!
Why do you and the BBC focus on 400 odd jobs going at JCB (this year) when Tesco announce 10,000 new ones (this year) and hardly get a mention?
When the Govt spin a story so much (and badly) the media are in an uproar, perhaps it's becuase you think they are after your job?
Stop spinning and start reporting, real news, facts, not opinion (of yourself and others) and the questions will cease almost instantly.
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#137 T A Griffin (TAG) wrote:
"... meanwhile, in the real world.."
Yes, isn't it a shame that the BBC has no blog on which to discuss real issues, where innocent people are being killed by Israeli armaments, supplied and paid for by the United States.
Here we are talking about two failed parties at Westminster, and a pathetic egotistic unelected PM and ministers in a undemocratic chamber, whilst phosphorous shells are burning innocent children in Gaza, in contravention of just about every international convention governing the conduct of warfare.
Its monstrous. Israel is a blot on the concept of civilised society, but we in the UK must carry responsibilty for the failure to condemn the outrages being carried out.
The economic crisis which is dominating these blogs is the result of a moral abdication of responsibility, not only by politicians, but by us all. We are all responsible for what is happening in Gaza, because we haven't held our elected representatives to account for it.
Our forefathers had an excuse for failing to prevent the Nazi atrocities, they may have not known the full extent of what was going on, but we have no excuses. Bush, Blair and Brown are as guilty, if not more so, then Sharon and Olmert, fot they could have put a stop to it.
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laughingdevil
Don't know if you watched the main news this week, but it was reported that over 7000 people had lost their jobs this week.
Tesco have said that they will create jobs, but nothing has happened at my local Tesco - and I have been looking!
I want the BBC to start telling us the truth too, and not some half-baked story they think we will be satisfied with, because it covers up what is really going on. While Labour is in government and pulling the Beeb's strings, it's difficult to say when this spinning will end.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
The unelected Ms Vadera eats green shoots and leaves !
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#144 laughingdevil
Maybe one third of the 30,000 Woolworths' workers who lost their jobs in a 2 week period over Christmas might get jobs at Tesco over the next year?
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#149
Hey! I'm going to make a prediction'
Next months opinion polls will see
the labour party taking a 5% lead.
I've got a nice pair of scissors here'
anyone need a hair cut.
The honest virtue of some "HEY HO"
there you go!
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Well Derek, you can dream, can't you.
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Nick
I agree; this was/is a story. It shows a shocking level of disconnect between the screaming realities of life out here in the real world right now (I own/run my own small business and we're struggling hard and seeing a very grim outlook ...) and the weird, political world that people like Baroness Vadera live in.
How dare she trot out such garbage. How dare you not report it and make a meal of it! Gets my vote, sir.
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#153
We can all dream, Shellingout, it puts a bit of spice in to life.
Do the doom and gloom gang never dream.
Captain sensible had a dream.
Remember 5%.............................luck...lucky
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152 Derek
What odds are you offering?
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#156
Carrots, its not an odds on bet, its a real opinion.
Remember you heard it here first.
Can you not see the sea for the water?
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Hey! Carrots didn't Buster have a veg stole after the train robbery thing or was that a flower stole?
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#158
Ooops! stall? yes stall
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How come you have allowed the word shoots to appear in the blog. This is a term describing violence by somebody called Green.
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What?! He had both his veg and his flowers stolen? That's because he mixed with criminal types.
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157
Ok ill have 1 trillion blog dollars on a Tory lead.
If you loose I want to convert that into a 1000 word essay by you, tittle to be decide by me, oh yes and it has to be in English.
158
Yes he had a flower stall, my Mum used to buy flowers off him, its true.
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How good is this
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5527007.ece
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1000 words Carrots, hoots man, whae dae ya think yae are.
Whats are you trying to say. Essay, sounds rather teacherous, Hmmm. of course all paste methods accepted?
Is it a three year deal?
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# 163 carrots...
Yes, I heard this story about MPs making their expenses an official state secret: what the hell kind of country are we turning into here?
Scares me to death.
Especially when I consider the utterly draconian measures that the state applies to me as a small business owner if I dare to step out of line to the tune of a single penny of my bookkeeping and accounts and expenses and tax returns. They MUST be penny perfect and delivered on time without fail; or else I'm penalised financially or, at worst, thrown in jail.
Meantime, politicians fill their boots at my expense.
It's a cliche, but this once great nation of ours is truly going to the dogs.
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If the government are so keen to see every receipt from self-employed people, then I think it only right and proper that they tell us what they are spending our money on. After all, we are their employers - something they all too often seem to forget!
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164. Derek
Already trying to twist the contract Eh
You said next month
Im already thinking of Essay tittles
mmmm how about...
why Im bitter about not being born rich
Or perhaps:
Why Peter Mandleson deserves a million pound pension fund while Ill only get 120 quid a week.
Nahh I can improve on that.
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...and another thing. These expenses claims. If I make a claim to reimburse a legitimate expenditure, I have to declare it on an expenses form together with a receipt. Not only do I have to satisfy my line manager and the accounts manager, it also have to stand up to scrutiny by the Inland Revenue, otherwise one may be tempted to purchase such frippery as a plasma TV, or similar.
Are MP's expenses subject to audit from the Inland Revenue?
If I purchase an item as part of my job roll, ie., a new office chair, and I leave my post after that, the chair remains the property of my employer. Could someone explain to me why the various items purchased by MP's (whilst employed by the public) are not retained as public assets, given that we've paid for the bloody things.
Unfortunately, we've given the fox the keys to the hen house, and told him to help himself and send us the bill when he's finished. I see nothing right, nor honourable about this abuse of power.
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Having just read thru the entries, there appear to be trolls with the message that we mustn't talk down the economy. Maybe they'd like a new national anthem. How about Happy Days Are Here Again?
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166 shellingout
Very true. All employees have to submit expense claims and receipts so that employers can claim the expenses in their accounts, and the receipts have to be produced to HMRC. Why should MPs be any different?
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166. shellingout
So wrong... youre in that Im a citizen, Ive got rights mode.
You are a subject and you will do as you are told
Bloody little upstart
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Carrots -
I thought we were all equal under the Law - it's just that some of us are more equal than others.
We need Heather Whats-her-name to take the ba**ards to Court!
Wonder if she will........??
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Nick you should have included the following article in your lead in. It certainly, to me, makes more sense than your easy meat blog.
In the theatre of sound bites, all that matters is scoring points.
Come on Nick stop running your side show and get into the centre arena and start blogging on NuLabour policies, policies that have been so disastrous to Britain. Or is that too much to ask?
Surely words come and go with little or no significance to Joe public in the real world, whilst NuLabour policy affects all our lives.
A number of commenter's on this blog have suggested policy areas you should be investigating or is it that you are running this sideshow to help NuLabour bury other, more worrying, bad news!
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#167
You might like this one.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPy0wxIdiGw
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Carrotsneedaquango,
a bit of news on the quango front(nothing you probably did not suspect anyway)-http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/80010/Holyrood-s-114m-consultancy-fees-a-waste-of-money-
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Regarding the MPs expenses fiasco, I have the answer.
The state should buy a disused/ derelict/ brownfield site in London, and should build a hostel along the lines of a Travelodge.
All MPs with a constituency outside of London can use this facility, free of charge, for their stay in London on HoC business.
However, they would not be able to claim any expenses, as none would be needed, all items would be in their rooms already, and if they lose their seat at an election, then the new incumbent MP can take over the accomodation.
This would save the State (US) an enormous amount of money, as we would own the accomodation and the john Lewis list items inside.
We would not then have to keep furnishing MPs pockets every time a new one is elected, and we would not be paying for MPs to make huge profits on London homes sold for profit at a later date.
Simple, cheap, and fair.
I am sure that this would appeal to all good socialists, especially Mr and Mrs Balls-Cooper.
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Testing - sorry, folks, comms problems.
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#125 elrond511
"there are many aspects of Scottish life which can only be legislated for at Westminster, these are known as Reserved matters."
Well, I suppose there are two options. Either those last remaining issues are transferred to Holyrood - which would mean in effect total separation and a break up of the UK, or Scottish MPs are not allowed to vote on purely English matters, but are wheeled out only for those issues that affect Scotland.
Either way, what we are left with, as you say, is a "dogs breakfast"
Labour's original plan was for English Regional Assemblies - but most people agree that would be just an extra tier of bureaucracy; a complete waste of time and money.
Scotland is a wonderful country, but the population is very small compared to England. (As many people in London as Scotland and Wales put together) Yet this Scottish dominated Labour government hoped to win favour by giving Scotland particularly favourable terms of independence.
But as you rightly say, "It is now coming back to bite them big time". It's another Labour mess!
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# 129 yellowbelly 1959
You wrote: "It is true. It is in an interview David Cameron did with the FT"
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2865e52c-e0f5-11dd-b0e8-000077b07658.html
Many thanks for the link. It makes interesting reading. I note it says the plan is that "all seats had roughly the same number of electors in time for the general election that followed"
That would be an improvement! In the past, Scottish MPs have represented fewer constituents than in England - which means they have had a disproportionately high number of MPs at Westminster compared to the rest of the Union.
Just to be clear, I have nothing but admiration for Scotland. But there should be parity for England.
In terms of the total number of MPs at Westminster, I'm sure we could manage quite well with fewer Honourable Members!
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Cor, now its the Conservatives nicking ideas!
Less than a week after I commented on Nicks "Economy, economy, economy" blog about investing in the future and cheap energy, than the Tories announce plans for an "energy revolution" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7832384.stm
We need to bring the cost of energy down to more affordable levels as the shrinking economy is less able to pay for it.
I've also blogged elsewhere about the need for less reliance on gas because of its stratiegic nature thanks to the move to a single supplier (Russia).
So while I'm happy that they're announcing plans to deal with the energy situation here, I do wish if they want to nick any of my ideas that they give me the advisors salary that pays for them.
If I was them I'd go further and also announce another step: for all rented property to be audited for energy efficiency, with 100 percent grants for landlords or tenants to pay for energy efficiency work. Lots of rented accomodation is energy inefficient because the landlords don't pay the heating bills and the tenants don't want to pay for improvements to a property they don't own.
It will keep the HIPS energy auditors and builders in work, and 100 percent grants will allow the work to be done at no cost to tenant or landlord, but will save the country in the long run. It will lower the cost of energy and the risk of us being blackmailed just like Ukraine is being now.
Thats the sort of spending splurge GB should have in recession. Rather than pouring money into bottomless broken banks, he should be investing in places that will generate jobs now and save money in the future.
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#178 YEP , I cant argue with you there.
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At the union of the crowns Scotland got a huge BIG HUG from the rest of the UK and in response gave Great Britain many ,many many great engineers, scientists, Generals, an lots of other stuff so maybe there's a lesson here !
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Hi Nick,
Seems the good baroness is not the only one who has a cloudy crystal ball.
In 152 derekbarker wrote:
"I'm going to make a prediction'
Next months opinion polls will see
the labour party taking a 5% lead."
This kind of knee-jerk response is always destructive. Because it is found out to be inaccurate so quickly. Doubtless, Derek will apologise in time for us misunderstanding him, just like that economic giant, Lady Vadera.
Well done, anyway, for resisting the pressure.
See you in the pub.
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Meanwhile back at the NuLabour ranch:
Unite Union chief Derek Simpsons secret deal over perks and pay rise.
NuLabour and their pals sure have turned greed and nose-in-the-trough into a pure art form over the last decade or so.
Bet Derek has no problems riding the economic down-turn, unlike many of those numpties he represents. Never mind Derek you can always tell your members - Things can only get better.
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Have any of you seen this?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/culturepicturegalleries/4220575/Blackjack.html
It is very controversial stuff and if you are one of those that know about press leaks of disasters that end up ringing true I urge you to check it out.
Were not far off the disaster that Biden and Powell claim to be taking place on the 22nd/23rd January. Just supposing they are right for a moment, you could have a good case for negligence from the authorities who have not acted on informing the public since.
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It all goes to PROVE that the
GOVERNMENT AND THE HANGERS ON
JUST DO NOT HAVE A CLUE.
EXCEPT OF COURSE GETTING PAID
RIDICULOUS SUMS AT EVERY ONE
ELSES EXPENSE.
I AM SO TIRED OF PAYING FOR THIS
PIOUS SANCTIMONIOUS ARROGANT
ADMINISTRATION.
THE UK IS BANKRUPT AS A RESULT OF
A DECADE OF DERELICTION OF DUTY.
ITS TIME THIS "WHATS IN IT FOR ME"
BRIGADE WERE HELD TO ACCOUNT!
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What is barker on? I'd like some of it. Something that distorts the awful truth and turns life into a bowl of cherries is just what I need right now.
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#187
Probably 30- 40 grand a year + a fat pension.
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I would have said more, but he isnt very smart.
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I think we're in the terminal stages of Government decline, insofar as the Ministers have become entirely introverted. We see, for instance, Sir Philip Hampden, already in charge of UK Financial Investments Limited, the Government's first-level bank bailout fund, now made Chairman of the Royal Bank of Scotland, which is an overt conflict of interest, one would have thought. However, this appears not to be the case, because Part Four of the Regulatory Enforcement and Sanctions Act 2008 allows Regulators of all sorts to set their own terms of reference by imposing a duty on them to keep the burden of their investigatory work to a necessary minimum. This is because a certain Sir Philip Hampden wrote a report at the behest of the then Chancellor, now Prime Minister, recommending this.
That's not all, however. His team preparing the report was minimal, but included a certain Will Straw. This cannot surely be the same Will Straw who was formerly President of the Oxford Union, who was fast-tracked into the civil service and whose father the Secretary of State for Justice was responsible for drawing up the said magnificant piece of legislation whicvh removed almost all responsibility from every regulator of every sort, including the FSA, can it?
There were ten thousand redundant bankers to draw from. HMG couldn't trust any of them, but had to choose Hampden, possibly the only "safe pair of hands" left. If that's not introverted, I don;t know what is.
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Rahere
A very useful and insightful piece of
information.
Its becoming clearer that Brown is
moving to FULL STATE CONTROL.
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I am not sure the colour of the shoot really matters. It is the accuracy of the aim that matters. Straight into the foot.
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Karl Rove Wants You to Write a Goodbye Letter to Bush (Seriously)
Rove revealed that he's putting together a letter-writing campaign to thank President Bush for his tenure -- public email and all. Share and save this post: Send a farewell letter to President Bush--Email gwbfarewell@gmail.com [no attachments]
http://content.usatoday.com/topics/article/People/Politicians,+Government+Officials,+Strategists/Karl+Rove/0bQ42U002Kg9H/1
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GORDY REMINDS ME OF A LITTLE BOY
WHO DESTROYED ALL HIS TOYS
AFTER BEING NAUGHTY AS HE KNEW
HIS PARENTS WERE GOING TO GIVE
THEM AWAY TO A MORE DESERVING
CHILD.
WHAT OUT CAMERON ALL THE LITTLE
BOYS TOYS ARE BUST.
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#190
Nothing is a surprise anymore. Look at the information in the public domain and we know that only a handful is capable of extracting the facts from the spin. Dependant on the consumer junkies, inept, uneducated and poor souls who think they are in good hands. Too many rely on TV for news. From now on in, you will start to see some shocking revelations.
Ultimately the internet will be used against us very soon and those few of us who are already crossing their line will be recorded, if its not happening already! IPs logged, email conversations stored, pages viewed will be collected and anyone against will have to be very careful.
Unfortunately for these people there are many more of us and they (those who enslave you) have a great deal more to lose at the moment, which is why it is a closed shop of tightly working forces to keep things going as they are.
"In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way."
Franklin D. Roosevelt
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#192 lol
Have to nip out and its not to spend :)
Have a good day to all
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Is it just me but I see the commons committee charged with looking into MP's expenses amid allegations of sleaze and outright fraud( or it would be if it was you and me ) was overseen by Speaker Martin, the very man whom much of the allegations were directed !!!!!
I can understand this function being part of the Speakers role and for that reason Martin should have resigned.
He didnt which is an outrage.
Why are the media not up in arms about this ?
I also see it is being reported that Harman "bowed to pressure" and agreed to the "cover up". Nice bit of spin there methinks.
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Nick,
surely in the real world you could say something about the situation in Gaza, or Afghanistan, or Iraq.
For example, we now have the UN looking into possible war crimes being committed by Israeli soldiers. Now, I will hear nothing about war crimes by Israel for as long as Bush, Blair and Brown are still walking as free men. Bush and Blair for obvious reasons but Brown because he paid for the war, a war and occupation we can't afford in Iraq. For example, if we have doone the job so well then why do the Americans have to take over our base in Basra?
Afghanistan, well no doubt we will hear the PM read out the latest list of the dead from Afghanistan and say the usual stuff about protecting us, being on the front line against the Taliban etc...in the menatime I hope that he does mention the inquiry into those deaths, because surely he can't say anything anymore, Milliband's comments, about the war on terror, especially if they were killed by 'friendly fire'.
As for Iraq, I could not but fail to notice that it was the wonderful Hoon who announced the third Heathrow runway, the same Geoff Hoon who was Minister of Defence (War) during most of the occupation of Iraq. As I have thought for some time there are people who have a lot to answer for.
Finally, I have not forgotten about Mr de Menezes who was shot on a tube train by 'police' who fired multiple dum-dum bullets into his head, especially when dum-dum bullets are illegal under international law.TAG.
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Nick,
may I suggest that readers of your blog refer to the Guardian of 17th July 2008 where they will read of the problems of Asbestos in the Houses of Parliament.
Maybe if the MPs were not quite so concerned about the pounds in their pockets (expenses) they might like to take some time to debate the safety of not only MPs but also staff and visitors to the Houses.
This is a national disgrace (asbestos) because it has been known about for decades, and now it would appear that the lawyers are trying to do as much as possible to prevent access to the law for those who may well be entitled to compensation for damage done to their health.TAG.
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My problem is not with the story itself but with the amount of coverage it received. People talk about the public being disinterested with politics, but I believe they are becoming increasingly disinterested with the News! If Nick Robinson were a film, he would be going straight to DVD!
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My problem is not with the story itself but with the amount of coverage it received. People talk about the public being disinterested with politics, but I believe they are becoming increasingly disinterested with the News! If Nick Robinson were a film, he would be going straight to DVD.
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Perhaps they won't do anything because it might open the floodgates for everyone to make claims against the State.
An example of this is their failure to recognise Gulf War Syndrome.
Just a thought :-)
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I have just woken up this morning to this.
Brown urges banks to 'come clean'
It beggars belief. It should read
Brown orders stable door shut as horse has bolted.
WHAT HAVE THEY BEEN DOING FOR THE LAST YEAR SINCE NORTHERN ROCK?
I really don't think they know what they are doing.
Wouldn't you have thought that at the time of NR they would have realised that before offering tax payer money to any other bank they would have insisted on full disclosure of the risks and gone through the books? THIS CALLED DUE DILLIGENCE!
At the time of NR Darling said "it has a strong mortgage book" At the top of the biggest housing bubble in history.
The only explanation is they really believed their own publicity that we would not suffer recession.
Every forecast this government comes out with turns to dust within months. They are completely and utterly incompetent.
They have to go!
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199
Tag,
There is even a bigger underlying health problem, all those houses that were bought under the right to buy have several health issues from lead piping, out-dated electrical works to poor and weak building materials.
Many of the homes were pre-fab, not built to last, a temporary house, that never got replaced.
The shocking thing is many were given a mortgage certificate that certainly wouldn't pass todays examination.
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Nick,
did not this woman actually work for an Investment Bank before she hitched her skirt to Gordon Brown.
What amazes me is that the government keeps saying how they have nationalised the banks and yet never have they said that the bankers must sign the official secrets act nor that they are now civil servants. What sort of nationalisation is this nonsense.
How much more taxpayers money must be put at risk until some sanity is brought to the situation. He who pays the piper calls the tune. About October there will be another crisis, the money will all have gone, then we can really expect to see the real Great Depression II.
It is just going to be so sad where everybody seems to have put all their faith in Obama, and he will not be able to deliver, he is going to be the fall guy for all this.TAG
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derekbarker
Once you become a proprerty owner, the onus is upon you to make sure that everything in it is safe and is working properly.
Gas and electrical applicances need checking every year and it is the Duty of the homeowner to get these things done diligently. If your home has lead piping in it, it is your responsibility to get it replaced. Get the picture?
When surveys were done on the Right to Buy homes in the 70's/80's these things did not exist.
Caveat Emptor.
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TAG
I'm still waiting to see the projected figures for public sector pensions - which are more or less unfunded. God knows how much that's going to cost us, but I'll bet it will run into hundreds of billions!
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#206
Shellingout, off the cuff remarks agian, of course they existed, health and safety and building structure safety have been with us for centuries, christ some of the most stable structures, like castle and stately homes are among the best buildings to date, in terms of good solid materials and foundations.
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One last word on Green shoot's.
Who is the net gainer from this episode?
I would suggest that when Mandy came back he had to watch himself as Shriti Vadera was Browns place person in the Business department to keep an eye on him.
If you watched the Newsnight interview he reveled in putting her in her place. "she will not be using that phrase again".
Mandy stamped his authority on her and Brown.
It’s like watching a panto and all I can say is
"Gordon he’s behind you".
And he has a dagger in his hand
Et tu Mandy
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Shellingout
207
I think there is a whole list of the commitments that the government are making that needs to quantified.
Bank bailouts, Stimuli packages
1 Trillion
Government Debt and liabilities base on the risible PBR
1 Trillion
What else?
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Derek
It wasn't an off the cuff remark.
Over the years, building regulations have changed, as have planning regulations, building regulations etc.
Back in the 70's asbestos wasn't considered to be as dangerous as it is now.
You didn't read my comment properly, as usual.
....and your point is?
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I do so love this NuSocialism
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5533387.ece
Takes me back to reading Animal Farm at school
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A little more detail on the numbers
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5533317.ece
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#211
Shellingout, my point is. In a rush to to secure the mortgage and take another property off the council hands many irresponsible decisions took place, from the survey to the lender. Quick fix cash deals.
Shellingout in 1974 many things and materials were related to be hazzardous, however trying to get those materials recognised as harmful was a difficult thing to do.
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#212,213 Carrots
Interesting that Mr Woodley has lived in a flat for 15 years and has NEVER paid any Council Tax.
Either he is illegally living in a property which is not classed as domestic accomodation or it is and he has never declared it as his residence and has illegally not paid his Council Tax.
Either way, he needs to be investigated by the relevant authorities at Westminster City Council.
Snouts in the trough. Oink, oink.
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STOP PRESS:
Hazel Blears, Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government says today on Straight Talk with Andrew Neil that "we cannot spend our way out of recession"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00h5jbn/Straight_Talk_17_01_2009/
What exactly have the Government been telling us to do for the last few months then, and encouraging us to do by cutting 2.5% off VAT?
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#214
That wouldn't be a rush of people trying to become owner occupiers under legislation brought in by that nasty Mrs Thatcher, would it?
All those good socialists buying property, and all those good socialist councils selling off their housing stock. What a wicked thing to do.
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Hazel Blears (otherwise known as Grin and Spin) has started to speak off message recently. Has she seen the light?
It was only a couple of years ago that her spin always started with Gordon Brown is the best British Chancellor for the last 100 years. Never hear that these days. Questiontime will never be the same again.
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@217 and 218
You are right about Hazel Blears (and the quote on Hard Talk was not lost on me last night). She has started wearing more statesmanlike clothing, has a dyed-in-the-wool conservative hair-do, and her language increasingly points out he failures or inadequacies of Government policy and/or history.
She knows that quite soon she will be sitting on the Opposition benches. She know that Crash Gordon will not be leading her party at that time. And she knows that she has a fairly simple task in beating Harriet Harman to become the first woman leader of the Labour Party. Pure positioning.
Seems to me that she is styling herself on Margaret Thatcher.
See you in the pub.
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219. At 2:16pm on 17 Jan 2009, Common-Scents wrote:
@217 and 218
You are right about Hazel Blears ....
Seems to me that she is styling herself on Margaret Thatcher.
===
Derek will be pleased, he is still fixated with the original.
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#216
" you can mitigate the effects" help to reduce the amount.
Your painting a pretty dull scene there yellowbelly.
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@220
True that Barking is obsessed with Thatcher, as was Tony Blair, and as is Gordon Brown. Who can forget the grinning, obsequious welcome from GB on the steps of Number 10.
Maybe Hazel thinks the time is right for a Second Coming.
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222
Ah, the laddies not for turning.
we are the proud nation of a grand child.
Go out and rejoice at that news, we've kicking the living daylights out of the Argies.
Of course her of springs are another question.
Obsessed? no, more like sad and effected about what she did as PM.
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Nick, of course it was a valid story. Don't worry about the snipers.
Can we have some analysis of the new plan to stop us seeing MPs' receipts for expenses -- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7831565.stm It's stunning. And they buried it on Third Runway day too.
Who in the cabinet has been pushing for it most? Surely not prudent Gordon. So who is the one with the most to hide?
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221. At 2:31pm on 17 Jan 2009, derekbarker wrote:
#216
" you can mitigate the effects" help to reduce the amount.
Your painting a pretty dull scene there yellowbelly.
===
saying it as it is, derek.
"Britain's banks are on the verge of a second massive taxpayer-funded cash injection amid a dramatic warning that they are effectively bust.
Experts warned UK banks - traditionally the powerhouse of the economy - are 'technically insolvent' and are ' living on a prayer'.
Government sources said a huge loan guarantee scheme - with taxpayers' cash used to underwrite at least £100billion of mortgage lending, car loans and borrowing by big firms - could be announced as early as Monday."
===
Vat cut didn't work, we can't spend our way out of a recession, and now the bank bail-out didn't work either.
They really don't have a clue do they, and it's our money and our futures they are frittering away.
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@223
I am afraid that leaves you out of step with Our Great Leader.
I was never very comfortable with warring with Argentina. Better to wipe out innocent women and children in Iraq, eh Derek?
Worth pointing out that the Falklands was the last time the that UK territory was invaded. Also worth noting that Tony Blair led the UK into more conflicts than any other PM in history.
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Nick,
Are we to get any comment on Gaza?
Isn't Bliar our official envoy?
I hear that Bliar is finding it difficult to get anyone to actually talk to him.
The UN is still waiting, over three months after a date was set for a report to be handed in over what he was doing out there.
When the fighting took place he disappears off to Washington for a meeting with his buddy Bush and a mutual hug.
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#221 derek
It is clear that the game is up for Labour, and it is clear that some Ministers have spotted this too, and are hastily re-positioning themselves ahead of the cull.
Blears with her comments, Miliband with "The War on Terror" was wrong, Woolas with his immigration comments, all in the last few days, are indicative that the Government are out of control, doomed to fail at a general election, and that senior figures are distancing themselves from the mess with an eye on the leadership/ deputy leadership.
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#228. Yellow Belly.
Exactly. No surprise, really. I have seen this repositioning by those in both parties over the last four decades.
What I'm afraid Derek-Does-Denial doesn't seem to get is that those who doggedly clung on to the obtuse message before a change of power and leadership are always left alienated in the end.
Let me put it this way: Does how do you rate Darling's chances in a leadership election?
QED.
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#225
Yes, its a very serious time indeed yellowbelly and yes, theres more bad news to come.Yellowbelly because of the nature of this recession and it's effects, its pricisely why action to bail-out and help is the only real answer, theres no second why or hidden exit route Yellowbelly, it's grin and bare knuckle stuff, the fight is on, it's ugly and we all have a part to play.
At some point opposition politics will have to give way and all hands will be needed on deck.
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#228
yellowbelly, If it is how you put it, time up for labour, then a real question will arise about the need for a forward thinking left party in this nation, I think you will catch my drift at that.
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#230
Interesting you say that derek, it reflects a change in the message coming from the Government as well.
There is no more talk about being out of recession in 5 months time (always a laughable suggestion), now the talk is of how, yes, things are bad, very bad, we cannot stop the recession but we must try to mitigate it, we all have a part to play, it is a time for national unity, not party politics, etc, etc.
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Nick,
I think that somebody ought to analyse what Brown was doing during PMQs on Wednesday. I thought that he was struggling with following to answers which he had with the planted questions. I think that his sight seems to be getting worse. I wonder if we will soon hear that he has resigned for health reasons, aka MacMillan. Just a thought. TAG.
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#231 derek
I should have said it is time up for NewLabour.
I would welcome a forward thinking left party, full of conviction politicians, but sadly there are none left in NewLabour, or the Unions it would appear.
Self-serving hypocrites who tell us to do one thing, and do another themselves, who cling on to power and get their snouts in the trough while they can.
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#195
Goes with the territory. If you follow Bob's Blog, you'll know I've trodden Dan Brown territory for real, and they've not got me yet - it also means I've got some very powerful friends. The key is Illegitimis Non Carborundum.
#207
Using a multiple of about 20 between spend and actuarial value, as a rough working estimate based on the current 70bn annual public pension spend, you end up with in the order of 1.4 trillion.
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#232
Just watch him appeal to our patriotism
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Snouts in the Trough!
"The heads of several big companies that called for a third runway at Heathrow are members of a confidential British Airways club of elite businessmen who receive special favours.
Members get a black Premier card and distinctive black luggage tags, which BA staff are trained to look out for.
The Times has learnt that BA helped to persuade many companies led by Premier cardholders to issue a joint statement last September that was influential in convincing the Government that the UK economy needed the new runway. It said: “Heathrow is vital for business. It offers the direct connections which make our companies globally successful . . . that’s why Heathrow needs a third runway built within strict environmental standards.”
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Nick,
our local MP is Ben Bradshaw (Exeter). The council are in serious financial difficulties and it is suggested that theri may have to be redundancies. The answer from Bradshaw (labour) seems to be that the council should borrow money so that jobs can be saved.
Borrowed money has to be repaid at some time. Is this the answer that all labour MPs are giving to the economic problems.Borrow and be damned.
This really is unacceptable, because as I have said before we are still saddling our descendants with paying off the debts incurred to maintain a standard of living which is not maintainable.
Down here in Exeter there has been so much wasted on a bid for Unitary staus by our local council, if they hadn't wasted so much then we might not have to make some people redundant. In the meantime who is to make the decision on our status, why Hazel Blears. Can't make it up. TAG
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Brown doesn't have the stamina and I think he is is not as strong physically as he would have us believe.
A few years ago (in Blair's reign) I went to a health spa across the road from the House of Commons. The beautician who did my back massage said that MPs and other politicians often frequented the facility, their swim pool etc. but in all the years she had been there she had only seen Brown come in once. He did used to look very unfit when he and Prescott snoozed off and picked noses behind Blair in televised parliamentary sessions.
Hmmmmm.
Now Blair, I get the feeling, was more wiry, active and despite a heart blip, more healthy all round.
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#238
Tag, The single status is the right way to go,
you cant have two people doing the same job and have one payed more than the other.
If you dont wont to borrow, then what about an across the board pay drop to save jobs. Your council would have a fight if they tried to up the council tax. To be honest Tag
if you could borrow to save jobs its probably the better of the risks, it could be a fast action repay loan, however there would be a give in terms of annual pay rise?.
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Communities Secretary, Hazel Blears, becomes embroiled in foreign policy?
Could there be an election imminent within NuLabour?
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241. Do hope so.
Blears - one of the Fabian Society fans. Scary.
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shellingout @121,
Sorry to hear about the possibility of you losing your job.
Best wishes.
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Thanks Max. I have accepted that if it happens it will be for the best. I do not want my children and grandchildren to have to pay through the nose to keep me in a job. I am sure I will find work elsewhere.
Listen up Derek.......it's the right thing to do.
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My problem with reporting of the "green shoots" is that like so much other political reporting nowadays, such condemnation of the comments lead politicians to be so careful of what they say that they end up saying very little. There are important and serious issues to be discussed, the media treats issues so that if a politician can't explain it in a 20 second (max) sound bite, then it gets ignored.
News is only news if it can be told in a soundbite and pictures. An example is the NY air crash - the lead story for several news broadcast. Yet in reality it was the equivilent of 'Small earthquake in Chile - nobody killed' type story. Proper analysis of the news is more and more left to late-night programmes few watch. Dumbing down of the news is a real problem for those of us who want to really have some understanding of what is happening in an increasingly complex world.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#224
Shellingout, yout not going to find an effective way to settle this recession.
Stream-lining and 4million unemployed
will only prelong the recession which in turn will mean our children will be saddled with the debt longer.
Theres no easy options, I think in reality the conservatives would spend just as much trying to mitigate this recession.
Remember Britain is not alone in this recession.It's a disease the whole world has caught and took action to mitigate it's effect.
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brynt41 @146,
Do stop hyperventilating.
When you say "We are all responsible for what is happening in Gaza" you speak only for yourself.
I am not responsible.
Perhaps if your beloved Wales was being attacked in this way (sheep and all), you may feel differently.
I do know that if some gang of Islamist had bombarded my country with 6,000 rockets over a period of eight years with the aim of exterminating me and my countrymen, I'd be in favour of erasing them all from the face of the earth.
Not very nice of me, perhaps. But like the Israelis, I'd rather be alive and facing your 'outrage', than dead and receiving your mock sympathy and crocodile tears.
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#240
Yes single status ok. Only one county, one council. The smaller districts cannot afford unitary, nor can Exeter. That is the problem, everyone knows that I am right only they don't want to admit that my resistance has been right all along.TAG
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What’s this? Our planet has made one whole pirouette on its axis and yet no major initiative made by the government as to how they are going to keel-haul us all out of this economic bilge we are so firmly entrenched in?
No accompanying daily triumphant blast on the bugle of hope as we stagger from one faltering / half-baked initiative to the next?
Come on Gordon, what are you doing? We need government initiatives and we need them now!
Don’t give us any of that “clever patter” stuff (with thanks to Caroline Flint), like an explanation as to what’s really going on - just look like you’re doing something.
We want prime-time Saturday evening viewing “A-Team” style action from something of a “Z-Team” government.
We need to see you do something…anything.
What about a quick Cabinet meeting in the Shetland Isles? That would show ‘em you mean business?
How about the Falklands?
How about the Kuiper Belt between Mars and Jupiter?
The moons of Saturn?
Or how about Uranus?
Failing that, maybe you could do a few BMX stunts outside Number 10? If you could make sure that the bicycle frame is made from platinum, the wheel spokes encrusted with diamonds and that the Red Arrows fly past running their jet engines on champagne, then that would be great
Ludicrously expensive and wholly unnecessary as that may be, don’t worry. Just lob it on the old national credit card and if you could then please send the bill to:
Our children, grand-children and great-grandchildren,
The future,
The country formerly known as the United Kingdom.
…I’m sure they will all be very grateful.
The bugle of hope? Nope.
The flatulence of despair. Yep.
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Nick,
I have said it before and will say it again. If you want another Great Depression then go on as we are now. The only thing to do is to let it go. Let asset values crash, let jobs go, let it all go. There has never been real capitalism in this country, well not since those liberals got in on the act.
Darwin has an awful lot to answer for, him and his theories about evolution, survival of the fittest etc...
I like Ayn Rand.
TAG
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Derek
It all depends on which country you live in.
If you live in Germany, chances are you'll be out of this before anyone else.
If you're unfortunate enough to live in Britain, it's anybody's guess.
Don't take my word for it - just read the financial publications. Virtually all of them speak from the same songsheet.
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The following is an article from the Telegraph:
200bn pounds to save banks from bad debt.
Well Duff Gordon likes to spend our money, he sure is committed, or should be - under Section Three of the Mental Health Act 1983.
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We all know that she's not really up to the job, but surely it was a simple slip. Nobody's that stupid, not even a Labour Baroness. She was only trying to tread water in the ocean of media pessimism. Same with GB's slip; it was just that , a slip of the tongue. Nobody is really daft enough to believe that he thinks that he has 'saved the World'? Too easy a target for the press to resist, of course, but let's try to get a sense of perspective.
And, yes - MP's expenses - Why are you so quiet on that subject?
Well done for your stout defense of your argument though, even though I don't agree with you.
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CarrotsneedaQUANGO2 @212,
Union members exist, like the sheep they are, to be fleeced.
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#251
Ayn Rand as in ?
http://www.iep.utm.edu/r/rand.htm
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#252
OK Shellingout, Is that because Germany has a manufacturing based economy?
Keeping a high level of employment?
And the ability to trade?
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246. At 6:16pm on 17 Jan 2009, MaxSceptic
===
MaxSceptic, have you been over to www. labourist.org,
it says something for Dolly when the imitation is better than his original effort!
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Conservatives take a 13 point lead in the polls. A Sunday Times/ YouGov poll will show tomorrow.
13 points derek, what were you saying at #152 and 155?
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Noticed this article by Guido Fawkes about the last PMQs
Both Gordon and Vadera quoted Lamont
Well, well Nick you missed that one. Did your glasses steam up at the time? You could be easily forgiven because Duff was spouting that much hot air, as usual.
For those who missed last Wednesdays Westmidden circus event, it can be viewed here!
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#259
I think I said in a months time that labour would have a 5% lead sometime near the end of feb.
Did you enjoy that silly dance link yellowbelly. Just a bit of fun.
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Another article from the Telegraph:
Tories see electoral gain as Labour MPs are split.
This decision, and the way it was taken, clearly demonstrates Duff Gordons twisted view of democracy.
Looks like Humpty Dumpty has opened up another front at the next GE. Things can only get better.
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#262 derekbarker
backtracking derek?
This is what you said:
"152. At 9:03pm on 16 Jan 2009, derekbarker wrote:
#149
Hey! I'm going to make a prediction'
Next months opinion polls will see
the labour party taking a 5% lead.
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#264
yellowbelly, are you playing politiking with me. He...He..He....
Wait to feb.
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Nick you may have lost your way, but the Telegraph sure as hell haven't.
Barack Obama plans to make US relationship with Britain less special than before
Looks like this will push Duff Gordons nose further out of joint, and Duff had so much riding on their special relationship.
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#266
Thats some photo on the link, big smiles all
around. Do you think Reagan had just slipped the hand. O' Behave.........
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The Green shoots of Europe, part two:
There wasn't supposed to be a cut in Eurozone interest rates this January.
Jean Claude Trichet, president of the European Central Bank (ECB) had said there was "a limit" to how low rates could go after three successive cuts saw the main lending facility at 2.5%.
But that was all the way back in December.
It is a sign of just how bad the economic situation is that the rate has now fallen to just 2%.
Out of work
Going through the figures, one has the sense of finally being hit by a tidal wave that had seemed to linger off shore for months.
The recession is upon us, not just in terms of gross domestic product, but in much more tangible and depressing facts.
Eurozone industrial production is down 7.7% year on year - a record drop. Why make things when no one is buying?
The picture for unemployment is equally depressing. More than 12 million people in the Euro area are unemployed and the figure is rising dramatically.
The situation in Spain is truly horrendous; an unemployment rate of 13.4%, or three million people.
One of the few bodies doing well out of the financial crisis is the Spanish army, which has seen a huge increase in recruitment from people looking for something, anything, offering a steady income.
Falling prices?
And one final figure to throw in the pot.
The eurozone is in deep trouble, and it seems to be getting worse
Inflation has come down to 1.6%. That is the lowest figure for more than two years.
In itself the number does not seem too bad, as the main objective of the ECB is to keep inflation at "below but close to" 2%.
But the direction of travel is alarming; the figure was at 4% in July.
Carsten Brezski, a senior economist at ING bank, insists the real fear now is deflation, the phenomenon where money becomes more valuable as prices drop.
That would be bad news for people with loans because they would, in effect, increase in value.
Little lending
The question now is whether today's cut will have any impact at all on the worsening economy, or more particularly whether it will persuade banks to lend more money. Almost everyone agrees that tightening credit conditions are a major factor in the downturn.
The answer is; yes, up to a point.
In October and November, the ECB's main interest rate came down by 1%, and it seems that banks in the eurozone passed on roughly half of that cut to their customers.
But just looking at rates will tell the whole story.
The question in Europe is what volumes of money are being lent, not simply the cost of borrowing.
On that score the figures reveal a grim picture.
The volume of new loans made available for house purchases were down about 40% for short-term flexible loans and by some 25% for longer term fixed-rate deals.
But interestingly, the amount of money being lent to businesses, one of the things European governments are most worried about, has dropped by about 10%, excluding bank over drafts.
Bad, but not, as yet, catastrophic.
Of course the figures are not yet available for December, and no one is expecting things to improve.
Well done Nick, but why is it that the BBC is becoming so economical with news from the Euro Zone?
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Nice BBC article has appeared in their political section:
UK needs tougher market rules.
I can run with his first observation, it looks like history is about to repeat itself. I wonder if he ran the later part of his speech past Duff before making it?
The article also contains another pearl of wisdom from Mandy:
Mandy I hate to rain on your parade but shouldn't you have got Teflon Tony to do this post 1997.
You could not make up the twaddle coming from NuLabour - even if you tried!
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#267 derekbarker
Naw Derek this ones better, its more recent and closer to home.
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Just saw O'Bama on the news making a speech and finishing with "God Bless you".
Extremely odd that Brown, whose father was a minister of the church, doesn't speak like that. Don't trust him.
I see the Conservatives have doubled their lead over Labour in the polls. Great!
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#271
Flamepatricia, whats great about it.
God your so easily please flamepatricia.
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Now Margaret Beckett is losing/has completely lost the plot. What planet is she on?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article5537245.ece
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#271 flamepatricia
Yep its here:
Job fears smother Brown bounce.
The popularity of the prime minister has withered and the Poll Tory lead has surged as recession takes hold
The Tories are now on 45%, 13 points ahead of Labour's 32%, with the Liberal Democrats on 14%.
Well, well Derek do you want to reassess you prediction of a NuLabour poll lead of 5% by end of Feb.
No shame in it after all NuLabour do it time and time and time….. again. All that money and dare I say it, effort, and Duff is back were he started and belongs - on the floor.
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According to Robert Peston's blog, the government may be looking at converting the preference shares in RBS and Lloyds/HBOs into ordinary shares:
"In that context, the Treasury and UK Financial Investments (the institution created by the Treasury to manage its investments in banks) have been preparing to make an offer to Lloyds/HBOS and Royal Bank, to convert £9bn of their preference shares (owned by the Treasury) into ordinary shares.
The reason for doing this would be to remove from them the heavy financial burden of paying the 12 per cent dividend of the preference shares.
In the case of RBS for example, the dividend represents an annual cash outflow of £600m and for Lloyds/HBOS the outflow is £480m."
===
This is what many people stated at the time the deal was done, me included.
How does it make any sense to lend money to the banks at 12%, cut interest rates to 2% and expect the banks to lend out that money and make a profit?
It was madness at the time. it was obvious it wouldn't work, and here we are 2 months later with the government finally seeming to agree.
Labour - The Do Anything Party.
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#38
I'm inclined to agree.
While Woolies has lost 30,000 jobs, Tesco is making 10,000, so there is not gloom around all corners, although there is not much to shout about.
Labour have become entirely unvelievable, but it's not any particular individual to blame for that - except for the man at the top of course.
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MaxSceptic, and yellowbelly1959
Yeah but talk about slow.
Charlie Whelans page hasnt been updated since Monday and they only seem to be letting one comment a day through to Mandleson.
Very NuLabour
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Hey Derek
Two polls out tommorrow show 9% and 13% leads to the Tories
Oooopppps
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#277 Carrots
I now read www.labourist.org which is a copy of dolly's little venture, but put together on a shoestring, looks and works better, and doesn't censor or block the comments in the same way.
What ignomy for Dolly when the copy beats his original, hands down. Looks like Master Draper maybe heading for Headmaster Mandelson's office for a ticking-off soon!
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#278 CarrotsneedaQUANGO2
Yep and this lead for a do nothing party. Ha Ha Ha. Speaks volumes about NuLabour.
Looks like Mandy has done a great job, wonder if Duff will thank him for it.
Things can only get better.
Carrots on the downside it certainly looks like an early GE has been scuppered.
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It looks like my blog at #163, within the space of 4 hours, has moved on.
MPs may be denied vote on 100 pound bin tax
I can only repeat what I said then:
Who needs parliament when you have Super Duff Gordon!
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#132 derekbarker wrote:
"Green shoots (2)
I never thought I would see so many people
crying to put so many others on to the dole queue.
I never thought I would see so many people calling for banks to close and people to be put on the street.
I hope lots of people now see exactly what a conservative government would mean.
I hope lots of people demand an end to a callous bunch of self serving tory gangsters.
I expect anything near the truth on this blog to be put in the bin. Hello fairlyopenmind working OT"
Why hello Derek. Hope your boys are OK.
Sorry - I've been a bit busy. There is a life outside blogging... Or I'd have spotted this and responded sooner.
I'm not sure what your comment about "anything near the truth should be put in the bin" means. If you suggest that I have been referring postings, just forget it.
I have never referred and probably would never refer any comment. (I'm not even interested enough to check how to do that!)
You could possibly suggest to the BBC that, if a posting is referred by another blogger, the identity of the referring party should be revealed. I'd be totally happy with that!
There is quite a lot of stuff I don't agree with on this blog. But, as has been said by wise men, I'd defend the right of people to state what I don't agree with.
Most bloggers who don't agree or empathise with my comments seem quite happy to "take a pop" at me. Which is fine.
It seems that, at one point recently, I transgressed enough to have a posting removed. Bit of a shock, but intemperate words can happen!
I believe that my fault was to suggest that it was odd that senior members of the Labour NEC (including its Treasurer) hadn't spotted that incoming money was actually on the basis of a "loan", rather than a gift. You would always hope that the Treasurer of any organisation (darts club, lonely hearts club band, or whatever...) would understand - or be told - the basis on which cash could be recorded in the books.
I think I personalised the comment, probably making it too close to a libellous statement than should be allowed on a public blog.
I did go back (when I realised I'd been removed) and post an apology for any offence caused.
I've voted for different parties along the way. I have no genetic affiliations - except to family...
Funny thing is that any collapse in the UK economy could have been predicted a while back. There has been a credit-boom for years - at least since 2001. House prices recketed again. (Which Gordon Borwn said he would not permit.) Personal indebtedness is massive across the population.
Since the Tories (to whom I've never given money and never committed to vote) have been out of power for 12 years, I have no idea why you seem to accuse them of "shaking people out of jobs".
Brown and Blair have appointed 8 or is it 9 people from private sector roles to become peers and then ministers in this government.
Had either Brown or Blair stated that they were unhappy with the level of pay and bonuses being picked up in financial instutions over the last decade, I'd have been supporting that!
But it doesn't mean that I think that the state should have lots of ministers and accolytes sitting around, imagining what they should do next (i.e. legislating and regulating) without realising that any decision they take would probably require N thousand civil servants to administer it...
I've always worked in a marketplace environment. Quite a lot of private companies have completely dead-wood employees. If times get tough, they shake the branches and the dead-wood stuff has to be sacrificed.
Brown said he was going to create 35,000 new apprenticeship positions. Great idea.
(He'd said that, by 2008, there would be 500,000 positions, but it seems there are barely half of that number...)
One minister (or junior-minister, or sub-minister or whatever sort of lobby-fodder type) said on Radio 4 today that there would be 20,000 apprenticeships in the public sector...
Fine. If you can be sure that public apprenticeships are a lot better than public education.
But just how, exactly, do the 35,000 "new" positions fit against the almost 250,000 NOT delivered apprenticeships?
Derek, I happen to believe that there is a heck of a lot of talent in these small islands.
But it's not going to get better because people pass laws!
If you want to take a pop at me, that's fine.
If you think I would "refer" anybody - you're completely, absolutely wrong.
I don't understand many of your postings, but I'm sure you care about your children as much as I care about mine.
It would be nice to see a few green shoots. I just hope that they're not planted in my childrens' future...
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#281 Roll_On_2010
Just looked at your link about the 100 quid bin tax!
It's staggering how out of touch these people are. Yet more 'rubbish' laws from a rubbish government! And without a vote in Parliament!
It's time for unelected Comrade Brown to go and this undemocratic government to be recycled.
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Yes, I know nobody should be posting at this time of night. I always blame the back.
#238 T A Griffin (TAG) wrote:
"...our local MP is Ben Bradshaw (Exeter). The council are in serious financial difficulties and it is suggested that theri may have to be redundancies. The answer from Bradshaw (labour) seems to be that the council should borrow money so that jobs can be saved.
Borrowed money has to be repaid at some time. Is this the answer that all labour MPs are giving to the economic problems.Borrow and be damned."
I sympathise. I grew up in a counrty town outside of Exeter, but the family moved in when my sister and I went to (very good) schools in the City.
I liked being in a provincial city. It meant that, by the time some of the totally daft ideas (big waves) had been created in the metropolis, they were more reasonable and tolerable (significant or at least recognisable ripples), by the time they came to the West Country.
I'm afraid that "borrow and be damned" is the government message.
Which in effect means "We don't give a stuff about your children, because we need their money now".
I just wonder at what point J. G. Brown's father said that to him... And how much Gordon had to pay back...?
My old man had to be convinced that it was a good idea for me to take out a mortgage!
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#282
Hello fairlyopenmind, the boys missed a full week of school last week, they picked a full like bug up on their first week back after the season break.We had to take Lewis and lyle to the emergency doctor, it was pretty bad. everything fine now and boys looking forward to getting back to school.One of the schools in Edinburgh want the boys to play for them, the school has organised a Burns night. The head teacher was at a concernt where the boys played. we got a letter through the post from the school to ask if the boys would play. Of course the boys will play,they are delighted to strut their stuff and blow for the Bard (Burns)
Well I certainly hope you can understand this post.
Sometimes we talk a different language, when it comes to our political views but the funny thing is we all care one way or another about the country we live in and thats a good thing.
When I take my springer for a walk, she never goes any further than 40 yards or so then stops and waits for me to catch up. this puzzeld me. So I got a book from the local library about dogs and their nature, apparently dog are descended from wolfs and still bare some of their orginal habits. All my springer is doing is checking that her pact, that would be me, is still with her. funny that. maybe there is a pact like presence in this blog.
Until later my friend. good hunting.
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#257 derekbarker wrote:
#252
"OK Shellingout, Is that because Germany has a manufacturing based economy?
Keeping a high level of employment?
And the ability to trade?"
Derek,
You may not realise it, but some of us suckers have always tried to buy British products. I've had a couple of BMW or Volvo company-delivered (tax-paid perks) cars. But have so far managed to buy my own cars from a British source. At least in assembly terms.
I like British food product, but it's almost impossible to tell whether sausages are from a UK farmer of anywhere else in the world, as the EU determines (and the UK agovernment agrees) that if someone in the UK touches a bit of foreign product, it can be described as of UK origin.
Pretty rass, don't you think?
The UK had a great manufacturing base. And still has enormous ability to turn ideas into reality.
The manufacturing base just disappeared up the exhaust-pipe of union expectations.
Real shame. My old man, and most like him, wanted something better for the future generations.
British Leyland delivered awful cars. Why? When the guy who turned Volkswagon back on again post-war, and laid the basis for a solid industry, was a Brit? Still recognised as a hero in German manufacturing.
What did we get, years ago? "Red Robbo", if newspaper headlines tell a story.
And some silly sods like me decided that, wherever possible, we'd buy UK manufactured product.
For goodness sake, most Formula I development teams are based in the UK. That's fairly high automotive technology.
There was a time when British (Scot/ Belfast/ English) ship-building could really deliver. Do you really think that an industry being robbed blind by unionised workers could ever compete in a real world? That's not an anti-union comment. Just that, when people took home from the work-place stuff that would be needed by tomorrow's shift, it made it kinda hard for anything to be built to spec and price on time.
There were very bad people (grasping and greedy) running parts of business. They still exist. Sadly, too many bankers (change the lead letter) in place and being overpaid.
But if you / we want a manufacturing led future, we absolutely depend on a good quality education for our children.
Education can lead to many avenues. Some folk are best suited to studying archaeology. Some make a massive contribution by being great plumbers.
I don't give a stuff whether the guy or gal who explains how an old crumpled ruin came to exist, or why a piping system needs changing, has a first class degree from Oxbridge or a good apprenticeship and master-craftsman qualification.
(In fact, quite a lot of very significant input comes from people with absolutely no qualifications, but a driving ambition. Or sometimes, a boss who is intrigued by potential...)
Once upon a time, the UK made lots of stuff. If you forgot, the industruial revolution started here...It had the opportunity to continue in that direction.
The State bought out / nationalised some significant industries.
And screwed them up.
If you develop and deliver stuff that is worthless, you can't expect people to buy it, unless you live in some sort of Soviet state. (Seen that. I didn't appreciate it during my business spells, but worse still, the locals thought it was crap, but were not really alowed to say so...)
If you have people doing completely worthless stuff, but depending on a public to use their discretionary income to pay for it, that's your choice.
If any government reaches into your wallet and says "We've got a better idea for how you could have used your own money", it's a little hard to accept. Especially if they waste it.
It's really rediculous to suggest that the "nasty Tories" or "uncertain Lib/Dems" have created the problems that have emerged over the last decade.
Unless you think that there has been no management of the UK economy by the government in power since 1997.
How old are your children?
What other government have they known?
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For Duff Gordon when it rains it pours:
Fury at airport lobby links to No 10
Well I never NuLabour are not into more corruption are they? And this must go as high as Duff Gordon himself. It appears like the wheel has fallen of his tractor.
From past experience I don’t expect too much to come of this affair, after all they appear to be bullet proof against corruption and sleaze!
I am still expecting something from this:
But it looks like NuLabour have had this one brushed under the carpet.
So I will not hold my breath!
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#285 derekbarker
Well, well Derek you are from Edinburgh. One of the finest cities in the world.
Did an 18 month stint up there in 2001/2002 stayed in Burntisland.
Unfortunately a number of outer urban areas of that city do have problems.
I once decided to walk to and view Craigmillar Castle. When I arrived at Craigmillar estate it looked somewhat like Beirut.
There was a car with no wheels mounted on bricks, parts of house bricks all over the road and I noticed that a local primary school/nursery was heavily fortified with iron bars.
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#285 derekbarker
Derek,
I hope your lads recover and really get engaged with that music stuff you obviously all enjoy.
Music is funny stuff. I always wanted to play like Satchmo, Miles Davis, or anyone, really. And sing like Sinatra.
Even if I could have done both, I'm an ugly old sod and would never be welcomed back on the stage!
My gal is at Uni in France. Started playing piano while there. (We had one here - a piano that is - but she had a good sympathetic teacher there. So when she started, the teacher would whack her on the head with a foam mallet! Good idea! Maybe we should encourage that with teachers in primary and secondary schools, if folk don't do what they could...)
I always liked music. Sang and played guitar in folk-ish/blues mode many years ago. (Also in the Messiah and Gilbert and Sullivan ... but that's a long time ago and without the guitar!)
It's sometimes hard to be bothered about posting.
There is just too much tit-for-tat nonsence.
I don't really care about what "social environment" choldren come from. But I do care about the desire for knowledge - and understanding - we promote in them.
As a young lad, and later at secondary school, I recall being required to learn poems. Not for the "natural" goodness of the poems, but to develop memory skills.
And chanting my "times-tables". Well, when you are a youngster, you can hardly discuss the philosophical implications of 2 X 2 being four, can you.
Actually I'm still unable to explain to my children (or understand myself) why 1 X 1 = 1.
Thank goodness I didn't follow a mathematics course at Uni.
I guess you believe me to be a right-leaning guy.
It's just a shame that politics has those right-left-centre measures.
I've been exposed to out-of-line capitalist garbage and soviet style, do-what-you're-told rubbish.
There's a point where the recognition of what people can do - and what they can afford to pay for, must get into balance.
That's what i'd like. A bit of understanding that the state doesn't control your lfe, even if you pay taxes for some worthwhile services.
Far too late.
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Derek,
This posting stuff means some inevitable delays between reading and sending.
If you have a setter, I hope it is reasonably well behaved.
One of my work-mates had an Irish Setter that launched itself into (and broke) the plate-glass window leading onto the garden.
Daft as a brush!
Look after the boys.
And hope that our politicians haven't made it too difficult for them to look after you, when you need it!...
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#288
Roll-on-2010
Craigmillar, they have a sport centre there
the Jack kane centre, some really good football players have come out of that area.
(Darren Jackson for one) yes very rundown
area.
There are many areas through out Britain that are run down and dangerous. Manchesters, Liverpool, Glasgow, London,
probably to many to mention.
I'm pretty fortunate where I live, on the out skirts.
I do find it a poor excuse, to say that an area will receive development, like east london, if the olympics are to be held there.
thats not good enough.
We had a shocking situation in Dunblane some years ago, unfortunately many schools now must be protected from an array of potential hazzards.Dunblane was an absolute night-mare. please dont try and fed on Camerons broken Britain from this post.
Anyway getting very late. goodnight.
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New slant on Heathrow runway from the Telegraph.
Mandelson bangs head on table in bitter Cabinet feud over Heathrow runway.
I always thought Mandy was a bit of a head banger, now its been confirmed.
Well I am really beggared beyond belief the clinching argument was if you make something bigger you increase its capacity. Well who'd have thought it!
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There are many areas through out Britain that are run down and dangerous. Manchesters, Liverpool, Glasgow, London,
probably to many to mention.
+ Birmingham
Bristol
Leeds
Rape: Portsmouth
Assault: Leicester
Burglary: Stockport
Robbery: Manchester
Gun crime: Bradford
Murder: Nottingham
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Does anyone know the present whereabouts of one A. Darling esq?
He seems even more so of late to have become the Gemini Man of British politics.
The Celebrity Big Brother is, so I'm told, always looking for Z list celebs. Maybe he's in there?
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How hilarious that people are writing to say that some more people wanting to get in debt (see earliest posts) are signs of recovery.
1. More debt is the problem, not the solution.
2. Those people probably don't understand the gravity of the underlying facts of the British economy (basically, it's b*ggered).
3. At what prices, and at what consequence to refinicancing obligations of existing debt holders?
As for the Minister, she wasn't being stupid; she was speaking the government line, which has throughout been to downplay the recession (aided by our very own BBC and their "downturn").
Mandy just cut her loose, and he will Crash Gordon in due course.
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294
Who's the organ grinder? Everyone said when he was chancellor that he was a control freak. The only difference is that he doesn't trust anyone in his cabinet so he is trying to do it all.
The old expression "give him an brush and he will stick it up his **** and sweep the floor" comes to mind.
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Doesn't it seem odd that the BBC "drops" the Nick Robinson Weblog off the Politics site - but "drops in" Peston on a regular basis?
What's the point?
Obviously a lot of political ding-dongs rotate around financial and economic stuff.
But the decision on Heathrow, the intention to ramp up "social mobility" approaches, the government changing the law to protect against disclosure of MPs' expenses, the continued nonsense about ID cards are all about more than "just money"...
So why does Nick's log come and go like the Cheshire Cat's smile?
(I'm still waiting for the announcement that there will be an enquiry into how "someone" leaked so much information to Peston that affected the markets...)
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279. yellowbelly1959
LOL
that didnt take long, I might pop in for a comment, the original site is heavily moderated. Ive left at least 5 comments that arnt even in the trash can.
Its pure NuLabour bull.
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Skynine @ 296:
Agreed. GB is one supreme plate-spinner.
But then spinning things just comes so naturally to him and this way beyond its sell-by date government.
Shane Warne has got nothing on this lot.
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#291 derekbarker wrote
"...We had a shocking situation in Dunblane some years ago, unfortunately many schools now must be protected from an array of potential hazzards.Dunblane was an absolute night-mare. please dont try and fed on Camerons broken Britain from this post."
Andy Murray was a schoolboy at Dunblane at the time of the shootings, wasn't he?
He turned an adversity into a triumph, maybe it helped forge some of his mental strength. The human spirit is a wonderful thing.
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287. At 02:38am on 18 Jan 2009, Roll_On_2010 wrote:
For Duff Gordon when it rains it pours:
Fury at airport lobby links to No 10
===
There's more
"The heads of several big companies that called for a third runway at Heathrow are members of a confidential British Airways club of elite businessmen who receive special favours.
Members get a black Premier card and distinctive black luggage tags, which BA staff are trained to look out for.
The Times has learnt that BA helped to persuade many companies led by Premier cardholders to issue a joint statement last September that was influential in convincing the Government that the UK economy needed the new runway. It said: ?Heathrow is vital for business. It offers the direct connections which make our companies globally successful . . . that?s why Heathrow needs a third runway built within strict environmental standards.?
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TRY
GOOGLE
"D notice Dunblane"
Interesting poll data on times on line!!
Illuminati even MORE interesting??
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I half-heard something interesting on the Beeb this morning. Can't find the newspaper article it seemed to refer to.
It seems that Peter Mandelson believes it is quite logical for TNT to buy into Royal Mail / Post Office.
Because "there's something missing in the genetic make-up of British management".
That's a ringing endorsement from the Secretary of State for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform.
I thought his Ministry was supposed to be helping UK business to develop...
Maybe if he got on with the "Regulatory Reform" part of his brief, UK companies wouldn't have the burden of over-regulation...
You wouldn't believe how long it takes for privatised companies to shake off the dead hand of public ownership and management styles.
Maybe His Lordship would prefer management to come in and slash and burn?
If he is not happy with Royal Mail/Post Office senior management, he should check who appointed them. And which Minister is responsible for ensuring it is properly run...
"Royal Mail Holdings is a public limited company in which the Secretary of State for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform owns 50,004 ordinary shares plus 1 special share, and the Treasury Solicitor holds 1 ordinary share."
Oh. That would be, well, Lord Mandelson. So is he saying he has - oh, forget it....
Royal Mail group has been a problem area for years. In recent times, some things have got worse. Especially the pension deficit... Since we - the tax-paying supporters of the apparatus of State - appear to have a deficit of between GBP 2 - 4 BILLION to make up in that business , I wonder what Mandelson is doing to resolve that little issue?
Since the government is happily shovelling money into banks, I'm sure Mandelson could find a way to chuck money at Royal Mail group, so they can close that pension gap and start to focus on decent (and innovative) ways to make some money.
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Nick,
I hope that you are going to Washington to see the inaugaration of President Obama. I wonder if you will find the time to Lord and Lady Kinnock, such a wonderful couple.
I notice that President Sarkozy will also be going, with his very attractive wife, and wonder who will be the representative from Britain. Gordon will be trying to save a bit of the world by going to Egypt, I can only hope that he is back to the UK in time for the waste of space known as Prime Ministers Questions.
Back to the Kinnocks, I notice from the Andrew Marr show that Glynis will be buying a new wardroab for the 'best tickets in town' and wonder if she will claim expenses.
Which reminds me we could save an awful lot of money if we got rid of all the ceremonial robes in the Lords, and also got the soldiers to wear fatigues during all their ceremonies rather than all this gold braid.
Finally, I do love the story in the Mail on Sunday about General Sir Mike Jackson and his teeth job and the facelift. I wonder if he would like to comment about the injuries to the soldiers he ordered into Iraq, for he was the commanding officer and therefore, I think, as responsible as the politicians for this disaster. Mind you like the generals of the Great War he personally has done very well from the war.TAG
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Derek Barking, of course a Tory lead is not great to you but it is to 99% here - wasn't Boris great on "Marr" hosted by Fiona this morning!!??
Great again. Love the way he says not to talk down the economy. Also that the Conservatives will come in with a brillian team when they are voted in (soooooooooon).
Labour blog - whatever it's called. They might just be taking the ISP nos. of those who post there - especial if CE is involved - you know what they are like.
Best be careful! I thought better of it.
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The poll signed by 1000 people on no 10 website, for the PM to resign due to financial incompetence, seems to have disappeared and is not under the Deadline by 15 Jan. section.
I read that it should not have got published as it did not fulfil the criteria and that somebody at no. 10 will get a pasting for letting it through!
Wonder what they will say on the email now to all those who signed? What another mucking fuddle eh? So very Labour. So very not listening to the people.
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Hooray for the junior minister! What we all need is more encouragemnent to look for our own green shoots - and is the way many businesses can help to minimise the impact of this recession. Yes its terrible that there are so many redunancies etc, but these were mainly due to poor management at the top. Good business planning and disaster recovery planning may have prepared more businesses to deal with this situation. The message should be that its not too late to re evaluate your business and look for creative solutions to survive. Its not always about cutting resources, but finding new ways to use them. Waiting for the government to bail us out is not a good strategy! The truth is there are green shoots and if could hear more about them we could perhaps self perpetuate a recovery in the same way the constant negativity perpetuated the recession.
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Snouts in the trough!
Taxpayers fork out £60,000 for Minister's dinner party ... to discuss the credit crunch
"Ministers have been condemned for throwing a £3,000-a-head dinner party - to discuss the economic slump.
Culture Secretary Andy Burnham ran up the £60,000 bill so he could discuss the effect of the credit crunch on 'creative industries' with 20 guests, including BBC Director General Mark Thompson and Channel 4 chief executive Andy Duncan.
Last night the Conservatives said the lavish bash showed how 'out of touch' the Government had become with the hardships endured by ordinary people."
Good old socialists, eh? Oink, oink.
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Nick, can you tell us the state of the "Brown Bounce"? Have there been any polls on the state of the parties released recently?
Will Hazel Blears' contradiction of Gordon Brown that "you can't spend your way out of recession" make the news, perhaps news you might report on? If the "green shoots" story makes the news why not this?
Any chance of Harriet Harman's statement on MP's expenses being reported on? Did she pick a 'good day to bury news"? And did the BBC assist in that?
It's amazing in the days of 24 hour news how much news is not reported on, I often ponder how this could be, do you have any views on the subject?
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309 Faye Tsar
YouGov poll today puts Tories 14 points in front. James Gordon Brown won't like that will he.
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308 yellowbelly
More of as a Do as I say don't do as I do from James Gordon Brown and his Labour followers.
But you can't blame them because they are getting what they can before they all get kicked out in the next election and it could be a long time before they get such a free meal ticket again.
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Snouts in the trough!
Minister in sleaze row over research job for partner at taxpayers' expense
"A Minister is at the centre of a sleaze row after failing to disclose to Westminster officials that she uses taxpayers' money to employ her partner as her researcher.
Jane Kennedy, Minister of State for Agriculture, Farming and Recycling, lists Peter Dowling on her constituency website as a member of her office staff responsible for research and parliamentary affairs.
But she failed to mention him on the Register of Members' Interests - despite new rules making it compulsory from last August, following the scandal surrounding Tory MP Derek Conway's employment of his sons and wife."
===
Oink, oink.
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#309 Faye Tsar
Faye Tsar there have been two recently released polls, one shows Tory lead opening to 9% lead the other a 13% lead. For the later follow the link in my post at #274.
Brown bounce. Looks like Duff is back in crash mode - yep Crash Gordon!
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294 Attersee
#Does anyone know the present whereabouts of one A. Darling esq?
I think he's probably down the pub with Gideon, downing their pints and having a laugh at how the rest of us are arguing about them and their noneffectual hidden policies.
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There's no green in this recession, only Brown.
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Another new slant on Heathrow runway from the Poly Toynbee, normally, a NuLabour torch bearer:
This craven airport decision hands Cameron a green halo.
This quote is really poignant, my heart bleeds for Duff…..Ha, ha, ha.
Said it before, 'the do nothing party' - with Crash Gordon in command they don’t need to.
I would like to echo Faye Tsars question. Nick, has Brown Bounce now reverted back to Crash Gordon?
Nick, I feel sure that if you are stuck for a new buzz word to define NuLabours current state of affairs there are many poster's on this site who can help you find a new one.
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wsneddon 307
"The truth is there are green shoots....."
Go on, then. Name a few.
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314 grandantidote:
I can't work out which I would prefer:
a. to be down the pub right now; or
b. to be called Gideon.
Regardless of that little moral maze, if our Chancellor is indeed down the ale-house, no doubt he's having a few games of "Shove ha'penny."
Fear not though as that is good practice for AD to get his eye in for what is left of the British economy in a few months time, n'est pas? A sort of financial projection for him to toy with, albeit on a 1:1 scale.
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"Pot calls Kettle Black"
"Brown urges Banks to come clean
The prime minister has demanded that banks admit how many "toxic assets" they have on their balance sheets.
Gordon Brown told the Financial Times the banks had to "come clean" about these bad debts so people could trust them again."
===
Hmmm,
PFI, Public sector pensions, MPs expenses,
come on Gordon, lead by example!
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So whilst all the reporters are away Ed Milliband announces
the crisis had arisen out of the market system itself, blaming a combination of excessive lending fuelled by a lack of effective regulation, mainly in the US.
and on Fiona's program it was a shame that both the newspaper pundits were from the Labour part of the spectrum.
Someone as lightweight as Fiona can't be blamed for failing to provide balance
Anyone would have thought it was summer and everything was a bed of roses
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Has anyone else seen the new Labour Party Political Broadcast? Seems to be quite reasonable, for a change ;-)
http://tinyurl.com/8s5whe
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310 and 313, many thanks, I was hoping the BBC might mention it, they seem rather reluctant.
Can't see it here, you'd think there'd be room for such a story:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/default.stm
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#321 yellowbelly1959
Viewed your link.
Its funny how such a simple and truthful view on the UK can be so scary!
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#307 wsneddon
I'd certainly hope that everyone will look for green shoots.
People in private companies have to do it all the time (small orders or small customers today can become bigger ones tomorrow)...
It doesn't help when the Minister for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform says there is "something missing in the gene pool of British management". This by way of justifying why TNT (or some other company) should buy into Royal Mail/Post Office.
Pretty insulting comment from a Minister. Not exactly likely to encourage management to talk to him as their representative in government? Maybe the Lord is starting to lose his grip.
I don't really object to private money being brought in to help develop what should be a flourishing business.
But it's worth remembering that, in the early years, Blair and Brown scrapped a significant initiative, originally designed to help Royal Mail, then dumped all the costs onto the company's balance sheet. (About GBP600MIL, I recall.) And subsequently whittled away, or encouraged competition for, some of the functions the Post Offices had traditionally done.
In other words, government hasn't been very helpful to Royal Mail group over the last decade.
Have a look at the letters you receive. Some marked TNT, some Business Post, or whoever. Those companies cherry-pick commercial and governmental organisations, from whom they collect mail. Then dump it into Royal Mail's "final mile" distribution system. (That's the most expensive bit. But government didn't really allow Royal Mail to price it as such...)
All I'm trying to say is that Royal Mail group is one of the very few companies owned by the State. (That means us.)
The German government owned it's Mail/ Post Office equivalent. And funded it through required and genuine change, allowed it to profit from monopoly pricing to the point where it bought up many, many private logistics companies and then part-privatised it.
Our recent government has done precious little to encourage genuine innovation in the one company it can affect. (OK, we now sadly own banks.) Normally, such companies go out of business if they can't afford to survive.
It should be possible to find dozens of options to help Royal Mail/Post Office expand. I could list a few.
This mob keeps on introducing badly-thought-through regulation and insists on implementing it. Go check on EU legislation/ regulation. We (Brits) implement almost every bit as quickly as possible and set up all sorts of monitoring and control regimes.
Do you really think they do that in France?
I can see lots of business opportunities.
If this government had insisted on treating the regulation of banks at the same level as the stringent management of low-grade risk covered by Health and Safety laws, British Banks wouldn't be in the dire straits we see today.
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Is the BBC having to put Mr Robinson on short time working due to the "financial crisis"?
Here we have Gordon the Golem's proud boast of having already saved the banks trashed by a new rescue package and nothing from Robinson?
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Well, James Gordon Brown has given away another 20 millions pounds away in aid in Gaza.
I love the way he can just pluck money out of our country and just give it away. There has to be rules about this.
These two countries are fighting each other and yes its a mess out there, but if they can find money for wepons they can find money for aid.
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For anyone interested a current blog at labourhome is discussing the Heathrow Runway:
Heathrow is Brown's Iraq.
Nick can you make a prediction of how long it will take Duff to recapture the NuLabour halcyon days of just 4 months ago?
60% of NuLabour party members believe their party cannot win an election under Brown.
View the YouGov Poll here
My prediction is - Not long.
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All day Sky have been reporting the 14% poll lead for the Tories (Sunday Times). No mention on BBC News, or their teletext or their website. I remember watching the Daily Politics back in December and a breathless Anita Annand saing: "breaking news Tories lead down to 4 points!"
It is very difficult to believe there is not serious bias here.....Nick are you going to allow this to go on without comment?
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#322 Faye Tsar
Faye Tsar it does look as though the BEEB are reporting both the poll results - they have hidden it at the foot of this article:
Mayor blasts Heathrow vote ruling.
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Another example of NuLabours 'joined up thinking'
Crackdown on skilled migrants 'to help UK jobless'.
The blog I mentioned at my post #327 contains this post:
It certainly puts Jacquis article above into context.
Roll On 2010 - 16 months to go.
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330. Grandantidote, er, I don't think so! Read the article poll with Labour members
mentioned by Roll on (330.) above.
None of your own party have got much confidence in Labour or Herr Brown.
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You have to wonder about some of these people...
"On Sept 26, in Tianjin at the World Economic Forum, EU Trade Commissioner Peter Mandelson drank a glass of milk in front of the media to show his support for the Chinese dairy industry and said:
The Europeans will continue to expect the highest standards, just as Chinese consumers are demanding the same…. But in the meantime I shall continue drinking my own favorite, er, milk, er, product, er, er, which I enjoy and which does not make me nervous.
His action, it was reported in the China Daily, touched Premier Wen Jiabao:
Wen said he was very moved when he saw in television European Union Trade Commissioner Peter Mandelson drinking a cup of Chinese milk on Friday to show his trust in China-made products. “It's because he not only sees the present, but the future as well,” Wen said.
Just nine days later, Peter Mandelson, who now has a new job as Business Secretary back in the UK, has been diagnosed with a kidney stone."
Grandstanding stuff.
When Chinese milk had been condemned for causing kidne stones - even failure .
Maybe he was happy to give up his role as an EU Trade Commissioner, in case he got dragged into some proposition that tsetse flies could actually help growth in Africa...
(Of course, he was entitled to top-up payments from the EU for the duration of the period he didn't serve.
That's a bit like someone saying "I don't want to work here. So I'm moving to a lower paid job with people I understand. So you - my employers - have to cover the gap between what you paid me and what I will get paid".
Just a different world, isn't it?
I actually think Mandelson is pretty astute.
But I hate it when people seem to think that "Well, it's only money from the EU budget", when they don't understand that all of their money - just like all of the money used to fund UK government - comes from you and me.
It will never happen. But I'd like every school-child to be taught a mandatory class on the economics of tax. Corporation tax isn't a punitive tax on wicked companies who make profits. It's a tax exercised because we - you and me - spend enough with a given company to allow it to make profits. So those taxes are paid for by US. Tax-payers - NOT businesses. They simply build in the probable cost of tax into the cost of items we have to buy. Just like duties (on petrol, tabacco, alcohol) but less evidently part of the cost of what we buy... Most people understand that direct PAYE or other income tax is targetted straight at an individual, but all the other stuff just happens "by magic".
Think again.
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Dear Nick (And All),
Please could you tell me when the BBC started reporting the story (YouGov, Sunday Times) of the Brown Bounce, which is all over Sky News?
Can not find it so far, any help here please?
Xxxx
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310 flame Patricia
Regarding 310 as one might say, if one was working class they would say"nothing to do with me mate"
Strange though I was having a debate with the Sicilian-Waldorf's last evening, all of us agreeing that the name calling and verbal abuse of polititians is a pointless and childlike occupation and quite offensive.
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Nick, your employers at the BBC are broadcasting a rather inspirational commercial for BBC News at the moment in which the TAG line is something like "Where were you when such and such happened" followed by " and where will you be next time". All good stuff but in relation to some rather important political stories and revelations recently glossed over or just ignored by your good self many of us are asking out loud " Where have you been ? "
By the way , Mandy and the yacht how are you getting on ?
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A recession exists where there is excess supply.
Only when this excess supply is removed will there be the green shoots of recovery.
After each recession British manufacturing is always very much smaller.
While industry in Germany and Japan, always seems to end the recession in much better shape than our industry.
Only UKIP policies can help Britian.
UKIP promise to encourage manufacturing industry.
None of the big three parties cannot promise this, because encouraging your own industry is illegal under EU law.
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326. At 3:27pm on 18 Jan 2009, maggyisgod wrote:
Well, James Gordon Brown has given away another 20 millions pounds away in aid in Gaza.
I love the way he can just pluck money out of our country and just give it away. There has to be rules about this.
These two countries are fighting each other and yes its a mess out there, but if they can find money for wepons they can find money for aid.
===
Don't they have some rather wealthy neighbours out there as well, charity begins at home, and all that?
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#325 Maggyisgod
Or to put it another way, it's only 6 times Andy "Eye Liner" Burnham's lunch expense account.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1120691/Taxpayers-fork-60-000-Ministers-dinner-party---discuss-credit-crunch.html
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334
Why is it pointless and childlike occupation? I would like James Brown to read some of these blogs so he could find out what the person on the street is thinking instead he just puts his head in the sand and does what he likes.
And if he finds it offensive then he is in the wrong job. I find some of the things he says offensive but don't cry about it.
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Plans to widen motorways 'axed'
Transport Secretary Geoff Hoon has suggested plans to widen the M6, M1, M62 and M25 will be dropped.
He said a trial on the M42, using the hard shoulder at busy times, had shown it was possible to ease congestion without concreting over more land.
Mr Hoon told Sky News it also meant increasing capacity without the "difficulty and expense" of widening.
The Observer reported that plans to widen more than 220 miles of the M6, M1, M62 and M25 had been scrapped in a £5bn cost-cutting exercise."
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I guess he thinks we don't need it now, seeing as in his mind emission-free planes will be using Heathrow?
And note the GBP5 billion savings, that's as in CUTS to spending, that dropping the schemes will save.
What was that about bringing forward construction projects to help employment in the construction industry?
The USA is pushing forward with it's own infrastructure program under President Obama, but our Glorious Leader obviously thinks that building roads would be a benefit here, unlike new runways, and Olympic stadia, both in London funnily enough!
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#340
Ooops. Last para should read "but our Glorious Leader obviously thinks that building roads would NOT be a benefit here..."
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Does the organic way pay?
http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/002293.html
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Sorry to be here again. I'll be away for a while with my old Mum, so some stuff just has to come out now.
Funny really, she's got all sorts of mathematical tricks that entranced me - and my children. I still reckon she could teach a lot of present maths teachers a lot today, to help them get children interested in a very fascinating subject. (She taught maths and natural sciences a while ago.) She's 90, but does the cryptic crossword pretty well.
If you chose representatives from secondary schools across the UK, I'd guess that most of them would not have the range of knowledge or understanding to compete with her!
She's always been a "green shoots" kind of person. Made me one of those, as well. But she really doesn't like having to pay tax that gets sprayed on "ministerial advisors" and other central or local governments who waste her income. Do you blame her?
So I have no problem with Baroness Shriti's hopeful expressions. It did seem odd that, on the same day that "The Shriek" made an unguarded comment, Nick failed to refer to major issues such as the Heathrow decision. (And the barely buried announcement by government to flaunt the legal decision by Judges - and refuse to reveal details of MPs' expenses. If you lived in the US, you'd find that government folk there expect every detail of their "state-funded" - i.e. your and my costs - should be available on demand.)
I occasionally bash heads with Derek B. I don't doubt his sincerity and hope he doesn't doubt mine.
I don't like the sprawl of modern governments. It's easy to spot new areas that could be covered by legislation and regulation. I'm sure most bloggers could outline a couple of hundred areas where we'd say "There should be a law to..."
The problem is that if you push on with the idea, you need resources to monitor and enforce rules (otherwise they are just a waste of time, which I think a lot truly are!). So you need more tax-take to employ more "government agents" to force citizens to do things that in most cases should probably just be done by people, anyway.
It just gets absurd when a fireman or window cleaner can't climb a ladder without someone standing by. I mean, if you change a light-bulb, do you require a trained electrician to watch, to make sure you do it properly? If you fall off, should you be able to sue the people who made the ladder, because it didn't have an inbuilt safety-net? Should you drive a car without there being a passenger to say "Watch out for this or that"?
The worst bit for me is that children today simply don't just learn enough. Why don't they have to learn stuff by rote? You can't expect a child to understand the reason why one times 5 equals 5. I still find it hard to understand the logic that says that 2 Million times nought is exactly the same as 1 times nought. (Or why the alphabet happens to have the sequence it does... After all, there's no logical reason why R should come before S or Z, is there?) How many children have to learn a poem before their next English lesson? Not necessarily for the sake of the beauty of language - that's a bonus - but just to develop the "memory muscles"?
Stupid really. Children learn song lyrics by repetition. No reason why they shouldn't just wake up one day and realise they actually KNOW things...
Too much emphasis on spinning stuff. Too little emphasis on knowing and doing stuff.
That sounds an awful lot like the current government. Which is why we pay for massive numbers of special advisors and expensive consultants. If these people just did the simple things well, we wouldn't have to put up with thousands of complicated things being poorly understood, poorly administered and very, very expensive.
Grumpy mood. But still like people!
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Just a little gravy thought?
http://www.uni-protokolle.de/nachrichten/id/129435/
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Minus 13% derek, that's an 18% swing to get to +5% in a couple of weeks!
Can Crash do it?
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#344 Not quite sure what you are getting at Derek, but if it is that so-called environmentally-friendly means of transport are not that friendly if you take all aspects into account, then yes, I agree with you.
These electric cars that are emission free are great, right up until the time you have to plug them into mains electricity to recharge them from nasty coal fired power stations.
Or how about that icon of the eco-friendly movement, the Toyota Prius. With its nickel batteries using nickel mined in Ontario, devastating the local environment, shipped to a refinery in Europe, then off to China where it is made into batteries, then to Japan for assembly, then back to the USA and Europe to sell to the gullible and naive.
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#345
I think you have to ask? how solid is the 13% swing, are the undecided just reacting to the daily news? how secure do the tories believe their votes is, it was only weeks ago their lead was cut by an 18%? SWING.
You and I both know the polls are guidelines
want matter most is how the public vote in elections. Looking very like 2010 now!
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#330
"British Jobs for British Workers"
Am sure I heard that somewhere before. The usual rules apply i.e .there cannot be discrimination against any EU workers.
Unless, of course, the British Government is embracing protectionism . . .
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Got to get this out.
The Treasury/BoE/FSA triumvirate didn't get a grip on UK financial institutions. (That includes any overseas organisations permitted to operate here.) We may be in a "global crisis that started in the USA" - as Gordon parrots - but local UK monitoring was risible.
Quite a sensible move to ban "short-selling".
You know, that stuff when an organisation "lends" shares to a finance house for a fee, so the borrower can sell them and hope to buy back the equivalent number of shares more cheaply.
Why on earth would the FSA (obviously with BoE and Treasury approval) have permitted this to start again?
It's just nonsense, isn't it?
I have no idea why the people who own all these shares allow someone to "borrow" them and then be happy to get back an apparent asset at a lower value.
Quite frankly, people should be allowed to be as daft as they like.
I'd be very, very happy if Brown/ Treasury/ BoE/ FSA said they would approve the practice as long as the lenders were NOT the managers of private sector pension funds.
I mean, it could be attractive to get a 10 percent "borrowing fee". But if what you get back has been reduced in value by 25 percent, how does that help the folk whose lives you have just screwed up?
I have no idea how many private sector pension funds hold Barclays shares. Probablt quite a lot.
Could the investors claim against the fund managers for loss of benefit, if these idiots allow others to undertake "short-selling"?
And why should the FSA have "relaxed" the ruling?
Do they somehow think that sharks have changed and now they don't eat?
Completely unbelievable incompetence?
Nah.
Just another example, to join the others, of optimistic people with little grasp on reality.
Why on earth did they allow short-selling again?
If they felt compelled to do so, why did they not BAN pension fund managers from allowing their shares (People's investments) to be played around with?
Well, why not? Ministers, MPs and loads of people don't have to worry about having to "fund" their pensions. It just comes out of someone elses' future tax burden.
Who cares?
Not this lot.
It's been a long time since a government administration has really driven me to the edge.
I got a bit tense with Thatcher, to be honest. Some stuff may have seemed reasonable, but the execution was bound to be damaging. But the gal had big ones.
This lot has been incredibly inventive at finding ways to tax people. But extremely poor at trying to manage the way in which money was sprayed around.
When did this government last announce the building of a power station?
When was that?
Still can't hear.
So if the lights go out, who are you going to blame? The Lib/Dems - who haven't been in power for so long that most of us can't remember? The Tories - who haven't been able to do anything for 12 years?
Or this incompetent bunch of social meddlers who have no idea that, if you can't heat and light homes and deliver power for business, the way forward is truly bleak. What would you prefer? A new bit of social-equality legislation (Harman/Milburn style...) or a bit of warmth in the winter?
I'd be happy to support any bill in Parliament that says that "Should any basic service be reduced, it should first be applied to Ministers and MPs".
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#5 Sorry fadedfred ,you mistook greenshoots for vultures looking for fresh carcasses. given the plethera of current reports on the market/economy it is disingenuous for someone in her position to even mention greenshoots so no I dont think the public apology is required
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347
2010 till an election.
Oh god not another 18 months of James Brown going on about "The do nothing party" and him just throwing money at the banks to try and save us all.
Just give the money to people who have debts so they can then pay their debts off to the banks and then nobody will have debts and the banks still get their money and we can all move on.
James Brown will do something right one day.
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Nick,
the trouble with Gordon is that he thinks he can salve his conscientous by money, GBP20 million to assist Gaza, blood money Gordon that's all it is, blood money. Shame on you. TAG
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Ken Clarke is back in the Shadow Cabinet as Shadow Business Minister.
That will give Marrakesh Mandy something to think about!
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#344 derekbarker wrote:
"Just a little gravy thought?" With a link suggesting that trains weren't as green as we were supposed to think.
Not sure what you imply. Is it that high-speed rail is not worth while?
Just another Great British development that got really screwed up.
Beeching really had no genuine statistics on which to base his considerations. Just snapshot figures that didn't reflect annual movements.
If he had said that some lines could only survive if they could be supported by very light-weight vehicles, running along rail lines, at times when they were needed, we would probably have millions less people on the roads.
Wiki seems to understand that great swathes of Scotland were deprived of rail links.
Practically speaking, railways are like airlines. They travel point to point. (OK, sometimes via somewhere else.)
They can't take you home. But, with a bit of sensible planning, they can help to reduce road traffic.
What exactly did John Prescott's integrated transport planning deliver?
Zilch.
So your point was what, exactly?
To suggest that after 12 years, this adminsitration could have come up with at least an idea of what to do?
Forget it. If they did, it would be so complicated that it just wouldn't work anyway.
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One of my (US) bosses told me to keep things short. Which I have a tendency not to do.
So I'd boil things down to bullet points. Then spend hours explaining what all the points meant.
Sorry for the long posts.
Green shoots should be sought. But, when they are found, I'll believe the people in business, not the people in government, who tell us twhat they've been spotted.
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#354
I thought it was fairly reasonable to see the point but hey! ho! there you go! all things "grey" when the tories have a say.
Not sure fairlyopenmind was right to suggest that railways are more direct than airways, maybe he's hiding a new band wave or airwave, exchange aeroplanes at 30,000 Ft, O' captain.
Anyway, the new greener tories, pistol packing cowboys! who nearly distroyed Britains shipyards last time round and gave us the silicon valley that got chipped away after a short spell of short selling our nations working rights.
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Just an additive, the high speed link from Manchester to heathrow, get them there faster so thay can queue longer.Another marvellous deliver from the "RITCHIE" pack.
Stumps anyone!
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The Tories are now :
THE PARTY OF THE GRIM REPO!
Do you not want your son and daughter to get a mortgage?
Do you want someone to buy your house before you up and off to France?
Do you not want someone to buy your house so you can downsize to the Cornwall coast?
YOU ARE ALL CUTTING OFF YOUR NOSES TO SPITE YOUR FACES WITH YOUR CONSTANT WHINING.
iT IS TIME TO SUPPORT YOUR COUNTRY ANF YOUR GOVERNMENT AND STOP RUNNING EVERYTHING DOWN.
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TV licence fee cash guarantees house prices of relocated BBC staff
"The prices of hundreds of homes owned by BBC employees in London will be guaranteed by licence-fee payers under a relocation package aimed at enticing staff to Salford.
Employees will also receive £5,000 in relocation expenses, up to £3,000 to pay for new carpets and curtains and will keep thousands of pounds in London weighting allowances, it emerged yesterday. The decision to use the licence fee to underwrite property values in a falling housing market has been condemned as unacceptable.
Under the “guaranteed house purchase scheme”, employees on permanent contracts will receive up to 95 per cent of the market price for a property. The BBC will incur any loss on the price when the property is sold and will pay for solicitors' fees, surveys and stamp duty, home information packs and building society charges."
===
Funny, this isn't on the BBC news website?!
And, shouldn't the last sentencce start "We the mugs that pay the TV Licence will incur any loss on the price......"
Green shoots indeed, but only if you work at the Beeb.
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#358 onward-ho
There has been only one thing running the economy down for the last 7 years, and that is the Labour government, and more specifically, Gordon Brown
Oh, and who said we are entering the worst recession for 60 years last summer, and that the "voters are p*ssed off with us"?
Alistair Darling
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Onward Ho
Dear God. Surely you really aren't that thick?
Open your eyes, Man. Look at what's happening.
Look at the number of us who are losing jobs every week. This is not a fantasy, this is a fact!
We are not running everything down - that's already been done by this poor excuse of a government.
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361
I went out on Friday night and the place was heaving, the cars were glitzing, the bags were blinging, the tills were-a-ringing, the taxi-ranks were queueing, the chat was of holidays, weddings, a derivative trader pal made nearly £70 million in his wages last year, people putting in new kitchens, buying stuff in the sales, new babies, domestic staff, trying to get a plasterer.....and I know it's hard out there for a lot of people ,but sometimes you just would not know.
Underneath all the doom, the UK is a fantastically vibrant place, and I just think it is time you bloggers cheered yourselves up a bit and got a life.
If being a Tory makes you a miserable, cynical bore, there is not much point in being a Tory is there?
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Onward-ho
Just being a citizen of Britain has made me cynical. I am about to lose my job and possibly my home. Tell me, how would you feel if it was you? I'll bet you wouldn't be celebrating.
If you went to work tomorrow and you were told you would be redundant by the end of the week, what would you feel like?
A cynical bore, maybe?
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362 you are either being ironic, or deluded.
don't you read the papers, watch the news, or check the internet?
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This was a story based on nothing. The new minster clearly did not appreciate it was a well known quote and simply repeated the phrase back to the interviewer. She needs more media training and Nick needs to be covering the serious issues of the day, not chasing trivia.
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#362 The fact that you have a Pal ( Derivative or otherwise) who made nearly £70,000,000 last year means you aint representative of most people in the UK. and render your argument useless. Where were you socialising "Islington " ??
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360-364
Yes, I read the same papers, blogs,see the same share prices, tv programmes, and talk yo people on the street,.....and yet I was struck by the business as usual of the restaurants and bars.....and I know how awful it must be for those who have had bad news......even so for 90% of the people out there life is going on pretty much as it always did.....and it is this which makes me think we are going to be ok.............. eventually.....but remember that people are not battling through the recession with the 15%interest rates of old.
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davidurquhart was right
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