'Shovel ready' schemes
Combine Bob the Builder and Barack Obama and what do you get? Nick Clegg or, at least, his latest economic offering.
"Can we fix it? Yes, we can" is the Lib Dems message today. They are arguing that £12.5bn cost of cutting VAT would be better spent on fixing and building things.
Their "Green Road out of the Recession" proposals include:
• A five-year programme to insulate every school and hospital, with 20% completed in the first year
• Funding insulation and energy efficiency for a million homes, with a £1,000 subsidy for a million more
• Building 40,000 extra zero-carbon social houses
• Buying 700 new train carriages
• Reopening old railway lines and stations, opening new ones, electrifying the Great Western and Midland mainlines and beginning the Liverpool light rail network
• Installing energy and money saving smart meters in every home within five years
These are designed to be the sort of schemes which Obama describes as "shovel ready" - ie projects that can begin now without lengthy planning, design or logistical delays.
Interestingly, I sense that the Tories are beginning work on how to re-target public spending to prove that they can get more bang for the buck than the Treasury.
Both main opposition parties are bringing forward their plans just in case the PM does hold that an election in early 2009.
I'm 
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Nick Clegg sometimes speaks sense. . .
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Dear Nick,
From "War in NUMBERS" TO " Sovel Ready Schemes in a blink of an eyr, war too much to handle?
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Simply give people who work some of their money back. It ain't rocket science.
Up the tax allowance to £18k, keep the next £22k at basic rate, with the rest at higher rate. Average worker over £200 per month better off.
Limit pension contributions to basic rate tax and stop subsidising rich people funding their pension schemes.
Increase VAT to 20%. It would be a blip in a 50%-off world.
Result is practically neutral to the government. THEN they should start employing gangs to dig and then fill holes in the road.
They need to create demand. They need to stop micro managing. They need to put PEOPLE in charge of their own lives.
But, under ZaNU Liebore, there's no chance.
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Dear Nick,
Actually, what you get is a highly successful industrial worker who has just been elected by majority popular vote.
Something you know who ain't!
Xxxx
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This looks pretty good. It does what it says on the tin: it is fresh thinking.
It is at least a plan which is more than anything the government has produced.
I am going to repeat my litany that we need a national government which can set out to redefine the political consensus as it takes our economy through the next few years of dire economic circumstance.
The need to cut our public spending coat according to our income cloth is paramount for our economic recovery.
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Sounds more worthwhile than p***ing £12.5 billion in the wind like Gordon Brown has done with the VAT cut, lost among the 20% - 60% discounts available on the High Street.
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I'm praying for a good Lib Dem showing and a hung Parliament whenever the election is held.
The only way we'll ever get anything approaching democracy is through a coalition government and proportional representation.
The current situation where any party with 35% of the vote from 25% of the electorate is likely to have a workable Commons majority is a travesty and always has been.
We inched our way slowly towards proper democracy after Great Reform Act in the 18332 but have had no significant democratisation since all women got the vote in 1928. Neither Labour nor Conservative parties will undertake electoral reform from a majority position so we need the Lib Dems.
Bring it on!
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#3
You have my vote!
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Interestingly both opposition parties are trying to force Brown's hand cos they know he is weak when he has to make a decision - and this is going to be the biggest in his life. When does he want to lose power?
All the stats show things are going to get a lot worse. McNulty on Newsnight last night showed precisely what is wrong with this government - talks a reasonable game, offering support, incentive this, scheme that, but the policies are not there to make this country work again - and especially his comments about Woolies workers.
I would suggest Gordon holds on as long as possible. Get himself into the record books as the bottler we know he is and be the longest unelected PM in history. We could even get Jimmy Saville to present him with the medal.
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Exactly what we should be doing. The point is that this makes the money into a structural investment, something that will save us money in the long term. Thus the additional debt is turned into capital, not just frittered away on playstations.
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I used to vote for this lot!
Now I realise they are just out of touch with reality.
Building trains or railway lines won't effect me or the average person on the street, as 90% of the population have no trains anywhere near where they live or work!
All you would end up doing is funding Polish builders, the rest of us would just be worse off as we pay for this through our Taxes.
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Lib/Lab coalition next time round...?
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Buying 700 new train carriages
This concerns me.
Do we have the ability to build rolling stock in this country. I thought the majority was sourced overseas.
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I agree with Nick on this one..
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Could work ...
Let's seem some action, though. Any politician can spout this stuff. What are they going to do about it?
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Clegg makes sense.
Cameron makes sense.
Brown does not make sense.
Even the Germans think so!
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I'm not sure if the LibDems are saying all of these projects could have been been funded through the CAT cut but I agree that this is the type of scheme that should have been introduced.
Instead we had a tax cut that didn't apply to the main areas people spend their money on fuel, food and energy and was swamped by existing discounts elsewhere.
Whilst Labour claimed that they would be bringing forward major building projects to boost the economy to date they have only announced the delay of building the new aircraft carriers.
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The 'election' rumour has been put out for precisely this reason.
Brown has not got a 'creative' bone in his body - he has no new ideas, at all, ever - that is why he dithers - he is incapable of thinking his way out of anything.
The 'election' rumour has been put out so the other parties show their hands, and brown/mandleson can steal all their best cards.
Brown backs any 'lefty' looking polices while Mandleson can backs an 'right' looking policies - between them there is nothing they can't propose.
However Brown is also completely unbalanced - our children will curse us for letting him get away with it.
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I think it was the Tories who first suggested building a fast rail link to the North many weeks ago as part of their alternative plans to counteract the need for airport expansion at Stansted and Heathrow and limit short-haul internal flights. This would of course, provide a lot of engineering and construction work during the recession and benefit the country's infrastructure for many years to come sustainably.
So where does Nick gets his "Interestingly, I sense that the Tories are beginning work on how to re-target public spending to prove that they can get more bang for the buck than the Treasury."
Perhaps he's been so busy concentrating on what his brief masters have been writing for him he wasn't paying attention to the other parties' plans at the time.
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".......just in case the PM does hold that an election in early 2009."
Come on Nick, spill the beans. We know you know. There must have been more to Mandy's wee pep talk the other day than the single question/answer that appeared on your blog.
I'm still betting on February.
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Sounds like a plan to me. I just wish people would stop saying "I'd vote for them but they don't have a chance..."
They do have a chance if people vote for them! (I certainly am - well, what are the other options, the nasty party, zanu labour... the greens (one policy) or the BNP (eeeeeeevillll)
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Quick Quiz, would you replace a 40k BMW with an 80k Aston Martin?
If not why not? Could it be the Aston is twice the price of the BMW and half as practical.
Train lines cost twice the price to put down as roads and are not practical for the majority of UK workers.
When will we wake up to reality and realise that trains are not the future.
Oh and trains output more CO2 than cars per passenger if you care about such things!
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Problem for Nick Clegg is whatever he says all the polls point to the LibDems losing seats at the next election as the electorate switch to the two main parties. The other problem for him is that his own Sheffield seat could be one to go. It is not a traditional Liberal area and I can see the Lib Dems shrinking back to their traditional areas in rural Scotland and the South West.
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Nick
Is Ratan Tata ( the very very rich Indian owner of Jaguar and Land Rover ) a very very good friend of the dodgy Lord. PM seems very keen to help, he must be on their Christmas card list!!
Please Nick can you have a look at it .
Great news for sufffering British businnesses, they all are going to get help from the taxpayers. Who cares now another billion there another couple there if it can get a couple of votes. In the meantime the Guardian pages are still full of adverts for useless well paid public sector jobs!!
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Why would we do something sensible like this, when we could fritter £12.5bn on a gimmick to subsidise Chinese imports instead?
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Well, I have to say, I completely agree with Cleggy on that one.
If the problem is now unemployment or fear of unemployment, any cash that can be spared from the public purse (such as the 2.5% on VAT) should be spent creating new work...
And making sure it goes to British citizens, rather than migrants...
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What we need to do is write off all debt and start afresh with a new system of sound money.
All this fractional reserve banking of a fiat currency, backed by nothing and created out of thin-air only created a situation where bankers could invent money, then gamble trillions of dollars of more invented money in masses of complex financial instruments based on this invented money that had been created at the click of a mouse and loaned into circulation.
I predict that such a system will not happen because the rich city fat-cats cannot create more money out of nothing that way. They would have to work for a living and EARN real wealth.
The only way to create real wealth is out of the ground or through productivity. NOT shifting vast sums of figures about in complex computer systems really quickly to create the impression of wealth.
The whole system is wrong!
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I think you are ALL missing the point on this policy.
The £12.5 billion that Nick Clegg is referring to is money his party would NOT have spent in the first place. Therefore, any counter policy he is proposing is merely political point scoring.
I would also refer you all to his original stance "When a ship is sinking, we must send out the lifeboats, not argue about who steered the ship into the iceberg" and he also argued that money should be "used to cut taxes for low and middle income earners. Hard-pressed families and individuals need more of their own money back now more than ever as they are worrying about their savings and facing mounting bills".
Now he is arguing that this £12.5 billion cut in peoples taxes should have been spent elswhere.
In hindsight you have plenty of time to make your mind up. During a crisis you do not.
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Vince Cable is a quiet calm and likeable chap. He is doing loads to up the Liberal's popularity.
I can see that the electorate, heartily fed up with the unelected Brown, will vote Tory and Liberal in numbers closer than one would have seen historically.
I still feel Tory is the way to go but can quite understand Cable's way of spelling out matters economic is appealing.
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Vince Cable is a quiet calm and likeable chap. He is doing loads to up the Liberal's popularity.
I can see that the electorate, heartily fed up with the unelected Brown, will vote Tory and Liberal in numbers closer than one would have seen historically.
I still feel Tory is the way to go but can quite understand Cable's way of spelling out matters economic is appealing.
Clegg though, I find a bit of a watered down Tory. Which is what he is of course.
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24
Tata should NOT BE GIVEN A PENNY - of UK tax payers money...
Tata is NOT a UK company.
It claims one of its wholly owned companies Jaguar - needs UK Government support - yet on the same day it (Tata) signs a multi million pound sponsorship deal to buy advertising space with Ferrari F1 Team!
As much as I love FI - this is taking the mick!
IF - Lord Mandelson has to support the UK Car Industry he should be targetting any help thus...
The UK Components Industry - that supplies the Car Manufacturers....providing countless jobs and vital to many parts of the UK - specifically the Midlands.
He could do this in avariety of ways - and any help could be relatively inexpensive,immediate,targetted and safeguard jobs,companies and more importantly keep people off benefits and help the companies/individuals to explore new and possibly productive production lines going forwards....
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Nick Clegg and Vince Cable have been consistently saying the most sensible things during the current financial crisis.
Unfortunately, because they represent a minority party, under the UK's broken political system they are unlikely to become members of any government.
Up until a few months ago it looked as if the Labour party might be about to become a minority party and Gordon Brown might therefore dust off the Jenkins report and implement some of it before his departure. So as to improve the chances of his successors.
On the other hand he will be painfully aware of what has happened in Scotland under a more proportional system.
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You can quibble over what should be on any politician's shopping list.
Key point seems to be that nobody has any idea why Brown and Darling believed that easing VAT by 2.5 percent (with a promise to increase it later) could make any sense whatsoever.
Raising tax-free personal allowances would have put money directly into people's pockets.
Food, childrens' clothes, council tax doesn't come with VAT. They are absolute essentials.
If Brown wanted to focus on "essential" elements, he could have applied major VAT reductions selectively on energy / heating supplies. They are pretty important, too.
He could even have re-instated the 10p tax-break for the lower income group. That could have been made selective (i.e. only applicable where total income was below a certain figure). But it would have meant admitting that he screwed up. Shame he's so proud and ego-centric that his pride has to be protected, to the detriment of low income folks.
Brown doesn't ever appear to have learnt that spending money is NOT the same as buying benefit.
There's no point being the world-saving, dynamic "Do something" PM if what you do is a waste of time.
Loudly trumpet tough conditions to inject money into ailing banks (then quietly let it emerge that the terms and conditions have been watered down, as they were just not acceptable)... The trouble is that too many things are done - but few are properly thought through.
Goodness knows why many people appear to think Brown could handle the economy better than Mickey Mouse. (That's not fair. Mickey Mouse made a fortune for Disney.)
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If Brown/Mandelson really think they should inject money into Jaguar, they should ensure a corporate structure, where the UK obtains a stake in the company.
(Bit like the UK banks. We'll provide money under agreed conditions and have a holding you - Tata - can buy out when we've got our money back.)
Shouldn't be too difficult to fix.
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@ 21. , ProLiberty wrote:
"Sounds like a plan to me. I just wish people would stop saying "I'd vote for them but they don't have a chance..."
They do have a chance if people vote for them! (I certainly am - well, what are the other options, the nasty party, zanu labour... the greens (one policy) or the BNP (eeeeeeevillll)"
IF they had any policies at all then they would possibly be worth voting for, but in reality, they only have one policy which I outline below.
1. Complete and utter subservience to the EU!
Their policy regarding the EU means that ALL their other policies are, at best, subject to EU approval and at worst "Whatever the EU tells us they are".
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Well done Nick Clegg.
Put some meat on the bones and put the newlabour apologists on the back foot.
Wht are newlabour playing at? They can't even be bothered to make sure the 500bn they have spent bailing out the banks is working properly.
Thye come up with a VAT cut in a high street that is idscounting at 50 percent plus.
Now they are in talks about bailing out Jaguar LandRover.. it's privately owned for heavens sake. isn't it up to Tata what they do with it? We'll be bailing out the whole of the sub continent at this rate.
This is a bunch of economic numb skulls.
Call an election
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Can anyone actually recall WHAT this government has invested in infrastructure wise in the last 11 years? I cannot!
Its all been a giant Ponzi scheme of shifting around taxpayers money from their hard earned pockets to Quangos, Welfare State, beurocratic wastage and WAR!
Investment in INFRASTRUCTURE is what adds value to our economy in the long term, especially investment in new, green technology and improving our self reliancewith regards to energy and food
Britain spends FAR TOO MUCH MONEY on foreign imports. We have SO MUCH argicuultural land in this country yet import ridiculous amounts of foreign foods!
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What the country needs is for everybody to pull together and not follow selfish ends. The Tories talk about social justice and the Lib Dems have good social credentials too looking at this list. Cooperation can't be too much to wish for?
The opposition may not be able to agree across the board but I bet they can achieve some consensus on the really big issues.
Clegg's list speaks to the fiscal stimulus bit and the Conservatives could do more to spell out the sort of projects they'd support if they can divert some spending or waste. Must be costed - no more debt.
For the LIb Dems, this doesn't address the urgent need to keep businesses working by freeing up loans. The Conservatives are right to bang on about this and I'm sure they could agree something with the Libs, not to achieve majority, but to set the example that party ideology has to be put aside and we must all work together.
Why are Labour plans on supporting loans only starting in January? Businesses are closing today! Urgent action is needed. Do they not understand this? Banging on about saving the banks is all well and good. Savers deposits have been secured but their returns are trashed. How can banks borrow at 12% and then loan at 6% or less. It makes no sense.
For all Labour's claims to support business, the VAT farce will not stimulate more sales compared to existing retail incentives, and the admin required is a tax levied in time and effort. The adjustment to negate the VAT effect on fuel will be another tax on business as most are VAT neutral but can't claim back the adjustment. The increase in NI will be a tax on employment. Woof!
Hung parliament or conservative majority, I hope they work together in the country's best interest. I want social justice so Dave get's my vote, but look at the compassionate way that Vince dealt with the pensions scandal. He didn't just attack labour for maximum political impact. He allowed time for the pensioners to be told. When half answer after half answer came out of Labour about clawing back overpayments, he persisted until he nailed them - not now, not in the short term. Greyness still exists about "adjustment" in the future but Vince will have made a note.
My point is that anybody that can serve the best interests of the nation with ability and compassion should be part of the rebuilding process. I can't name them off hand but there must even be some Labour MPs with integrity who believe contry first, party second who should be employed in such a venture.
Near the top of my to-do list would be to remove ownership of public information from the Government. Have an a-political civil service that collects, manages and distributes information as required to enable transparent (and secure) democracy. No need for leaks, suppression of vital info becomes the crime.
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30...
I agree entirely about Vince Cable - I cant see him ever "in bed" though with the Tories
In many ways he is the nearest thing currently in Parliament in terms of ideology,politics,personality and ethics to the late John Smith...
Clegg,I agree is a nothing,a watered down Tory - as opposed to Huhne - a watered down Labourite..
It is of great regret politically I think that the Lib Dems lost 2 generations of Leader - Kennedy - due to personal issues and problems that led to him being stabbed in the back by his former PA to further her journalistic career and the potentially brilliant David Penhalligon - taken by a tragic car accident - at a time when there was a real chance and desire for a third party explosion...
I believe that Cameron is too politically and personally welded to Osborne to see the opportunity here - Browna nd Mandelson on the other hand - political street-fighters may yet come up with the idea of maybe tying in the likes of Cable and possibly Clegg - on the back of some form of loose electoral pact - certainly to cover a general election period...
A cabinet seat or two - Cable would fit seemlessly into the Treasury Team - a promise (whatever they are worth) of some form of PR being used in local elections maybe - crucially - withdrawal from Iraq - and possibly the public enquiry the Lib Dems crave might just open up Lib dem/Labour relations to a better level than they have been since the millenium...
I just get the hunch that Clegg in paticular - and some of his followers are not adverse to the idea of "soul-selling" to gain a foothold of sorts at Westminster.....
Right now-Brown though he wont admit it - has far more to gain from such an alliance....hence imho it would be no great suprise!
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I heard Tata were sponsoring a motor race. Not sure if it was Formula 1 or such like.
My point is, that if this company can afford to sponsor such races, they don't need money from us!
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#31
Making components for who, exactly? I'm not advocating it, but I assume the argument is, if you save the car makers, the supply line gets saved too. If you save the supply line, there's lots of components, but no-one left to put them together into cars.
I realise that in the economic system you prefer, lots of components, rusting in fields, makes perfect sense, but I'm afraid the logic is lost on me.
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@ 31,
For once I agree with Greatandydudley. We need to support OUR manufacturing base, especially as the pound is so weak, our exports become so much more competitive. We would lose ALL of that competitiveness with the Lib-dems determination to join the Euro.
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Sorry, but the Liberal plan isn't good enough. They talk big and handwring over human rights but the second it comes to the crunch they just come out with generic retread material and their spine turns to water. It's not a great advert for Clegg's leadership.
If the Tories want to take their "billions of savings" and create some carefully targeted X Prizes, and invest in gold standard training and higher welfare payments for folks on the margins I wouldn't vote for them but it would get my attention.
It would make a change for Britain to get into an arms race over quality and investing in the bottom rather than the historical pattern. Brown and Mandelson have been irritating me over the past two weeks and lighting a fire under their ass would help.
C'mon, if you thing you're hard, etcetera.
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I would have to agree that VAT giveaway is complete waste of time and there are any number of better ways to spend it.
I find it interesting that we should even need a 5 year plan to insulate every school and hospital, why the hell aren't they insulated already?!!
If only this government had even the vaguest clue how best to spend OUR money.
Here's a radical idea, how about spending the money on free childcare for everyone who's not a high rate taxpayer. Making it worthwhile (and possible) for millions of single parents to go out and work.
What we need is a genuine boost to teh real economy, not tinkering around the edges of financial disaster.
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This sounds good. Spending to improve employment and make improvements in infrastructure and therefore the economy. A bit to radical for the reserved and stuck in their ways British Governments though. Who prefer tinkering with the tax system. To try to impress Middle England. Because their votes count. They said they wanted to cut taxes with the money as well though. Please get your act together Lib Dems.
For this countries success we need all parties to raise their game. That needs more competition. to make sure that the opposition doesn't just sit back and wait for things to go wrong to get their turn.
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There are two separate questions:
a) should there be a fiscal stimulus, and how much? (in my opinion this should be led by countries with a sound fiscal position, and not by the UK and Iceland).
b) if there is to be a fiscal stimulus what form should it take? The LibDem proposals are definitely an advance on Gordon's nonsensical VAT reductions on DVDs and imported televisions.
The priority remains, however, fixing credit in the banking system such that as many as possible companies with sound business models survive the recession (to provide sustainable economic growth in the future). Everything else is secondary.
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Nick,
Did Clegg say that what he was doing was the right thing? Whenever the government speak, they always add on the last 3 words to imply that any other proposal is the wrong thing. So what do you think, is the Clegg plan capable of withstanding the usual parrot phrases of Labour against the alleged do nothing parties or that proposals from the other parties are not right?
Have you spoken to Cameron or Osborne on their proposals? Have you even read any of the material produced over the last few weeks that indicates that they have many of these 'shovel ready' plans available? If not, why not? Why do you imply that they have been doing nothing up until now when this is clearly not the case?
Can we have the old impartial and balanced Nick Robinson back please?
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This sounds like a reasonable plan, anyone with an IQ over their shoe size realised that the 2.5% VAT cut was a ridiculous and expensive waste of time of effort - it was never going to put extra money in peoples pockets
Either directly cut taxes or spend the money on infrastructure (as suggested) this not only creates important jobs, but also creates assets worth something to the population. I would like to see increased spending on public transport and housing schemes
The public transport where I live is a joke. It costs about 2 quid extra for me to get a taxi into town than the bus! We live about 7 miles from our nearest large town and it's over 5 pounds on the bus - plus it takes about 45 minutes to complete the journey. It costs about 6.50 for a taxi
By contrast the train is 2 quid return and it takes 5 minutes, great value for money!
I would far rather any borrowed money (of which there will be plenty next year) goes into projects like this - and can we please not let this descend into the usual 'migrants will get all the work' blah blah
I'm not a massive fan of the Lib Dems as a whole but Vince Cable has consistently talked the most sense from all the parties during the recent financial fiascos and this sounds like sense to me as well
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greatandydudley
I thought Gordon offered Sir Ming Campbell a job when he first took over as PM - which Sir Ming firmly turned down.
Why would you think that Nick Clegg and Vince Cable could be bought in the same way? Does't say much for them, does it.
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The DO Anything Party, as we now know labour to be, could do well to look at the tory Do Nothing Stupid approach. As long as they are being interviewed and appear on tv making announcements, which come to nothing, they think that will do the trick. . The labour ideas so far are not working and it is because they have no idea how businesses are run.
Nick Gleggs ideas is not without merit, it would leave a lasting benefit and would be simple to implement.
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JAguar LandRover shouldnt be given a penny.
They are owned by Tata who have just unveiled sponsorhip of Ferrarri in the F1 championship.
Financial responsibility is what is required
Subaru and Suzuki pulled out of Rallying. Honda pulled out of F1 and are considering pulling out of MotoGP, Jag owners Tata add sponsorship of Ferrari. Its a question for have I got news for you someoen call Merton and Hislop
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I like all the ideas apart from the "smart" meters, which I think is a waste of time and unneccessary expense (people should know how to read their own meters and adjust their useage accordingly).
Now if he promised a referendum on a move to PR or a move to referenda on all "contentious issues" he'd get my vote. Perhaps the ID card could entitle citizens to vote in these referenda (at least we'd get something for our money)
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Isn't it terribly sad that the party that's actually coming up with half-way sensible policies is the one that has no chance of being elected?
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No9 gthebounce.
If you are unaware that we do not elect Prime Ministers in the UK, it comes as no surprise that the rest of your contribution is bordering on nonsense.
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As the polls seem to suggest, there is still a feeling afoot in the land of
"stay close to nurse for fear it gets worse" re Brown and his save the world antics.
However, I do have inside information on David Cameron and he is said to be far stronger and harder than his present public appearances sometimes show him to be. (Note his anger when he swept aside the papers at PMQs whilst lambasting Brown re the lack of proper investigation on the Baby P case).
DC is young. (so is Obama of course). His advisers are young. But they are training, priming up, and when the time comes they will be in for the kill and, I believe, they will win. Street parties!!!!!!
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Oh crikey CEH you off the Labour payroll now?
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Quote: "49. , shellingout wrote:
greatandydudley
I thought Gordon offered Sir Ming Campbell a job when he first took over as PM - which Sir Ming firmly turned down.
Why would you think that Nick Clegg and Vince Cable could be bought in the same way? Does't say much for them, does it."
-------------------------------------------------
Additionally, does anybody think it credible that Gordon could ever give a cabinet position to the man who said of Brown, "he went from Stalin to Mr Bean"?
Knowing what Gordon's ego and less than stable state of mind mean, I foresee ice covering Barbados before Brown gives Vince Cable a job in cabinet. (unless after the next election there is a hung Parliament and it would be the only way to prevent a minority tory/lib-dem coalition government)
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Well, its a start. More than what Broon has given us.
Considering I spend a good amount of time criticising politicians of all flavours for taking the short term view, the only thing I see about the transport infrastructure projects in this is that they are likely to be long term - more than the lifetime of one parliament.
Good in the sense that it is forward looking and will provide work.
Uneasy in the sense that we may have lost some of the expertise to be able to build these solutions ourselves - especially manufacture of rolling stock.
This would also have to be part of a greater integrated plan - there is plenty of rolling stock out there but the train operating companies are not using it, because using more carraiges impacts their margins. Again, some form of tighter regulation required. Prescott's initial integrated transport plan from 2001-2 actually looked pretty good until it ran into the buffers and Broon killed it off.
Someone has to do something and although I dont have any electoral affinity towards Clegg, I have to give the Lib's credit for putting some of their cards on the table. Now, its up to the rest to do the same.
I've noticed a couple of the regular left of centre posters hinting that "ah yes, Cable... he could be bought off with a cabinet job.."
Do you lot seriously think that you're going to have any MP's left outside of Newcastle & Fife when Broon goes for it? Especially if one of the other players presents a viable, detailed, costed alternative??
Typical Lieboor. Do anything, say anything, bribe anyone, to get elected.
'Twas ever thus.
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Trouble is, as my parents have found out, this free insulation is dependant on the loft insulators. My parents and many others have standard houses, but because the insulators cannot stand upright it is a health and safety issue.
Clegg may have ideas but delivering them is a different issue. RED TAPE BRIGADE rules!!
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41 -
For over 200 years the industrial heart of Britain e.g the Midlands has proven time and time again its ability to be ingenious and to accept change...
Of course I am not advocating they continue to make some kind of subsidised screws and parts to rot in fields...
What I am advocating is (a) - as they have done before diversification in to new fields (b) - that someone like Mandelson actually goes and does what he is very very good at e.g sell British manufacturing overseas...
If,as an example Tata want investment by the Government in to Jaguar - the price to pay should be an immediate deal whereby Tata's other arms - they are big in all forms of engine/diesel manufacturing - have to use and utilise British made products - its called protectionsim - you scratch my back - I'll scratch your....
There is also no reason why some of the infrastructure plans being considered - could'nt and should'nt utilise the manufacturing base in the Midlands for components and parts...
Lets terminate any contracts signed or not for the Olympics that are with companies that are NOT 100% British - and replace them with contracts that are 100% British....stadiums may appear to be made of concrete - but there is an awful lot of metal and metallic parts and equipment in them...in fact our Olympic USP should be.....100% MADE IN BRITAIN!
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49 - My opinion is that Ming turned it down on 2 counts (1) he did'nt want to be disloyal at the time to his party even though he was not happy with the way he had been ousted (2) he could not ethically join a Party involved in war with Iraq - about whom he was the most consistent critic...
With regard to Clegg and Cable - no 2 - will become a non-issue as it happens and they may see the benefit of a "loose" no more than an indication of whom they could work with and on what basis in a hung parliament - electoral pact...
Iraq has no political capital for anyone other than the Lib Dems since the Tory Party 100% wholeheartedly backed everything Blair did....in fact if you look at voting records - Tory support via MP vote for Iraq was GREATER in the Conservative Party than the Labour Government - since a slither of the hard left that remain in the Parliamentary Labout Party - never actually voted for the Government on Iraq...
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These are some pretty good suggestions - would create jobs and help out certain businesses in these sectors. And i would certainly trust the Lib Dems more than Labour to actually get them off the ground.
I can only concur with others who mention Labours recent cancellation of the aircraft projects - my 2 major clients at work are government bodies and they are cancelling projects and taking money back everywhere - some injection of cash to help the economy Mr Brown! More proof that this government are simply in it for the power now and not to serve the great british public.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I've never been a fan of Clegg, and disagree with many of his party's policies, but credit where it's due, these proposals are not without merit.
At least one of the major parties is considering a series of measures that can actually help to lift the country out of the mess we're in (usual attribution) by doing something that actually has long-term benefits.
Let's hope at the very least it prompts some constructive debate and suitable action.
#22 Septic Tank
Please tell us where you got your "facts" from? You obviously have some unique insights.
#43 C-omm-E-nts by t-H-e do-ZEN
There was I thinking you only had one shade in your pallette, so it was a pleasant surprise to read your last paragraph.
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58...
The Lib Dems are'nt going to win 200 plus seats...
Cameron simply is'nt attractive to floating voters in the Midlands , the North West and Scotland and Wales...
Nationalism in the latter two is running out of steam...
The best the Lib Dems can hope for - which would be a breakthrough for them is - 70/80 seats....if they did that - they would take as many Tory marginals as Labour marginals...
I dont subscribe more than a glance to any opinion poll BUT - one thing is clear - there is NO LANDSLIDE OUT THERE - of 1979 or 1997 proportions....
Cameron is struggling to break 40% in the face of a global recession and potentially 4th term Government...
The Lib Dems are stagnant around 15-17%....under the same criteria...
At this stage - it looks very much "hung parliament" territory....
IF IT IS.....it is my opinion - thats all - an opinion - that Clegg and his Team may see a "loose" pact as the best way forward to (a) IMPACT on UK politics (b) INCREASE AWARENESS of their policies and personnel and (c) BREAK the log-jam of 2 party politics in the UK....
It is also my opinion right now that any such deal is more likely to be done with Labour (a) as Brown and Mandelson would see it as a way of regaining control and Government and (b) Cameron would see it as defeat for his ideals and policies...
Political pragmatism against political realism if you like...
What that says about individuals and parties is by the by - I am merely trying to make the point that you can only impact from inside - you cant do it from outside - and maybe just maybe the Lib Dems will grasp the nettle...
and they could just as easily grasp it from Cameron - but for the bulk of their party membership I think that would be too far accross the politcal rubicon! - unless Cable was given the unthinkable....Chancellor...
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#61 greatandydudley
My opinion is that Ming turned it down on 2 counts (1) he did'nt want to be disloyal at the time to his party even though he was not happy with the way he had been ousted (2) he could not ethically join a Party involved in war with Iraq - about whom he was the most consistent critic...
Nothing to do with the fact that he just couldn't work with Gordon, then!
.............................
With regard to Clegg and Cable - no 2 - will become a non-issue as it happens and they may see the benefit of a "loose" no more than an indication of whom they could work with and on what basis in a hung parliament - electoral pact...
Sorry Andy - I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about here.
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Giggle, Fair Tubestar (whatever).
Love the way you put your last paragraph. There's a lot I could say on THAT one, whistleblowing but of course it gets moofed by the subject.
I agree, Clegg et al are beginning to be listened to.
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My mother is also waiting for her insulation. This has been going on months and mon
ths. She applied for it as soon as it was pubicised and the firm doing the work can give her no indication of when she can expect them. They said it will be well into spring next year at the earliest.
At 82, she needs it now!
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Let me see if I have this right Nick- Tata only a short while ago Buy Jaguar Land Rover? Ratan Tata Is now so broke he needs a hand out from the British tax payer so he can sponsor the Italian company Ferrari? What an absolute P!$$ T@%£.
I CAN'T BELEIVE TWICE IN TWO DAYS I FIND MY SELF SAYING NATIONALISE
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So the election might be on then?
Clever game Brown is playing, keeping the opposition guessing, saying the opposition doesn't have any plans and paint them as do-nothing and finally copy plans of the opposition, as Brown will do since he has done it before (remember death taxes?).
I will not debate the silly prerogative that the prime minister has to call elections willy-nilly (which he perhaps should only have in case he wants to embark on war or something similarly important). I just want to point out here that especially the conservatives face enormous hurdles to actually (I love that word) win a majority in Da House:
-Labour need fewer votes per seat thanks to crafty gerrymandering;
-Brown has cleverly been buying votes through the significant expansion of the public sector, both in terms of jobs and in terms of benefits (tax credits by another name.
The vote buying amounts to some 10 million votes at least, with 6 million public sector employees in the mix. With the recession (oops I forgot Mandy: downturn imported from the US) and everyone in the government talking up its severity, voters will get scared and especially those benefiting from the state's largesse will be more inclined to vote for the status quo.
Sterling has further to fall.
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Brown cannot win either way.
If he stalls and goes for a late election then he gives more time for the Conservatives "in training mode" so they will serve with even more power to their elbow.
If he goes for an imminent election he will lose to them anyway.
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49 - My opinion is that Ming turned it down on 2 counts (1) he did'nt want to be disloyal at the time to his party even though he was not happy with the way he had been ousted (2) he could not ethically join a Party involved in war with Iraq - about whom he was the most consistent critic...
You forgot
(3) Hadn't forgotten how Labour stitched up Paddy Ashdown in 1997 - promised PR in their manifesto and then reneged under cover of revelations about Paddy Ashdown's affair.
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Nick Clegg did himself an immense amount of self-harm which landed him with the 'Cleggover' epithet.
Politics being the brutal 'sport' that it is, he gets reminded of that every time he opens his mouth in Parliament and references women.
So, whenever this blogger reads 'Clegg', he has to try and put that to one side and see if the actual ideas being presented stack up.
Which of course, some do, because no single individual or indeed party, has a monopoly on good or bad ideas.
I particulary liked the idea of resurrecting old railway lines, murdered by the Tories (as in Transport Minister Marples, also of Marples Ridgway - motorway builders) via Dr. Beeching all those years ago.
How incredibly shorted sighted was the axing of those railway lines but all too typical of our politics.
I'm not sure if anything has substantially changed in the land-of-nod.
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#39 greatandydudley
I think you and I are miles apart in our political thinking, but your post at #39 is excellent and very well worded. Your inclusion of a reference to the late John Smith is thought provoking.
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68 In the Midlands on eInsulation Company has gone in to Administration...
Can you believe it....
To my knowledge EVERY OAP who qualifies has been sent a form to fill in to cover insulation...
Funds are ready and waiting...
Whats the problem..
I do concur with two known problems...
1. Roofspace and health and safety
2. Many OAP live in older houses - with walls that cannot be insulated via cavity wall insulation..
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
74....
I have to say that I wept the day John Smith died - having been fortunate enough to have met him - as a politician and as a man - my impression was that Blair and Brown are not/were not worthy to lace his shoes....
I have no doubt had he lived that Brown may have been his natural successor - but it would have been a very different Gordon Brown that would have emerged from the over-politicised beast - we see today...
In any generation - irrespective of ones political views - there are politicians that inspire and earn respect - often you can be politically diametrically opposed to them - but you can respect them...
Penhalligon in my opinion was a TRAGIC loss....a personable man,an excellent communication,a bit of the Celtic/Cornish devil in him - and with an intellectual ability that Ashdown - could never quite match....
I have to say I had very similar views - having met him too - of Alan Beith - to Vince Cable - very capable and fundamentally decent people - with a view that needs to be listened to - and brought in to the mainstream!...
My core point is this - who will have the intellegence to use these types of people....
I believe dogma and arrogance will prevent Cameron from doing it - and whilst I dont think Brown and Mandy will do it for honourable reasons - I do think their gutteral street fighting political instincts - might!
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Nick Clegg must be commended for pushing for schemes that actually benefit the infrastructure of the country that will still be there once Crash's deep ravine has been traversed.
Plus his plans will allow for our "flexible" economy to be in a position to respond to the bright new world on the otherside.
Since you hint that the Tories are also in the late stages of planning it will be interesting to see which ones Crash and his cronies pick after they decide their current positions are untenable.
...and still hints of election without dates, unless it is embargoed I'm sure certain freedom of information questions aimed in the right places would whittle the answer out. With the Labour big wigs denying it, I can only assume that it is imminent to coincide with the new taxes in January
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The ideas are good and at least examples of what an opposition should be thinking about.
It would be really good if those who go on and on about 'bottler Brown' and Nulabour would give this attempt at helping solve our problems some serious consideration. To win an election Cameron will have to come up with some convincing suggestions. He is quite capable of doing this, but at the moment seems to want to please the 'name calling' wing of his party who tediously fill this blog with insults massquerading as intelligent comment. Not a good way of ousting Gordon.
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75 It just goes to show how bad things are when not even insulation companies are insulated from the recession.
If the governments insulation initiative was intended to save companies like this one by creating a huge new market of work opportunities, my feeling is that this is probably the result of the usual botched process of delivery from the government, probably involving a 200 page form to fill. Throwing money at a situation simply isn't enough.
I am slightly surprised but only very slightly.
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#75 greatandydudley
Perhaps this company didn't get paid as quickly as they should have done.
All Governments have a reputation for doing this. Just a thought.
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#3
By restricting tax relief to basic rate on pensions, you only restrict private pension savers.
Anyone who has an employer can opt for a salary sacrifice scheme. Employer pays the premium, your salary is less, you pay less tax (and NI) and therefore save cost at your highest marginal rate - easy!
The big one however is anyone in a local authority pension. If you employer is paying direct for most of your pension benefits at a cost of, say 20% + of your pay, then if you are restricting tax relief for private pensions to basic rate, you would have to charge a BIK on substantial contributions for such employees.
It cant be done with any degree of equality. However I am not sure that equality comes into the equation where local authority pensions are concerned....
I pointed this issue out to the Lib Dems at a conference a couple of years ago - interesting to see that it seems to have been quietly removed from their agenda....!
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55
Cameron and his young team "training up".....ready for the kill!
The mind boggles...
Fundamentally - Cameron lacks experience - he is politically nieve therefore - if he has as you confirm - surrounded himself - with similarly inexperienced people - and of course his Shadow Chancellor...
He reminds me of Roy Keane and Paul Ince......excellent prospects - promoted to managerial positions way too soon - frankly - out of their depth....
(though I'd not fancy telling either personally to their faces...LOL)...
BUT YOU GET MY DRIFT....
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Mr Robinson,
I know you will continue to publish many fotos of Brown together with Obama because you want Labour to win the next election since they will give more funding to the BBC and its pension fund, but do you actually (I love that word!) know what Obama's economic plan is?. Have you seen what happened to the dollar in the last few days?
Obama, like Brown, does not really seem to appreciate that this is more than a banking and credit crisis. What has happened since say 2000, is that countries where the workforce puts in a proper effort (China) and countries that were sitting on a pile of natural resources sent their money to US and UK consumers through the purchase of government and mortgage-backed bonds, apart from buying the odd piece of real estate or a stake in a bank. The recycling of meny kept world wide interest rates low, fuelling a real estate and consumption boom. US and UK consumers were spending all (yes ALL) their disposable income! This should not be a problem in case everyone has great company pension schemes and health insurance and never gets made redundant, but unfortunately that is not the case. Hence consumer behaviour was unsustainable in the long run. Indeed we're all dead in the long run (forgot who came up with that phrase!) but now consumers face the slight problem of having to pay higher interest rates prior to moving on some sort of afterworld (from Prince, Let's go Crazy). Consumers should save some of their income, like Germans and French who save some 10% of it (you see, Mr Steinbruck is not an idiot). Unless Obama grasps that the current problems can not entirly be pinned down on banks but are also caused by silly consumers and governments that like Brown were running a deficit when the ecnomy was growing above trend, there is decent chance that the dollar will fall as quickly as sterling, which is not reallly a compliment.
Obama and Brown, Brown and Obama. Perhaps lovely in a foto frame (not my taste though) but maybe two economic ignorants squared as well.
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82/83 - I'll see what I can find out....its very bizarre...
unless of course its something wrong with the company that means they were'nt eligible to get government contracts..
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Mr Robinson,
In addition to the above, which you probably don't accept, I would like to refer you to page 10 of the Bank of England's Financial Stability Report published recently (i'm too lazy to provide the link). There you will read and find a graph that already in 2007 in the UK companies accounting for 25% of borrowing by non-financial companies had insufficient operating profits to service their debt: borrowing is the problem, more borrowing is certainly not the solution, it's not just banks that should change (but don't tell Mandy, Mr Mandelson for me, he and spin class teacher Campbell may order the LBC board to have you replaced as political reporter).
PS for those not in the know, LBC is the Labour Broadcasting Cor........... rather than the beeb
PS2 Haven't spot the UK ambassador to my country yet, but the anxiety-induced insomnia is not taking its toll on my looks I think
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GAD
People in authority seem to be extrtemely lax about paying others for work already completed.
I have a vague memory of Heseltine getting into hot water for leaving it until the very last minute to pay someone - who eventually went out of business.
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"chrisleopard wrote:
Lib/Lab coalition next time round...?"
Hahaha dream on.
The Lib Dems will lost my vote and many others if they even contemplate this.
More likely to see a LibDem/Tory coalition
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"Fundamentally - Cameron lacks experience - he is politically nieve therefore - if he has as you confirm - surrounded himself - with similarly inexperienced people - and of course his Shadow Chancellor...
He reminds me of Roy Keane and Paul Ince......excellent prospects - promoted to managerial positions way too soon - frankly - out of their depth...."
To continue the analogy, Brown reminds me of Sam Allardyce.....
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Sam Allardyce as much as in old, tired, never succeeded at much, failed strategies, and unproven but persistent allegations of corruption.
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Another example of this government's unbelievably gutless attitude:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/david_hughes/blog/2008/12/18/why_does_gordon_brown_hate_the_countryside
Can you credit it? Hundreds of thousands of pubic sector workers have their pensions overpaid for year and they waive it.
Farmers are over paid a mere 15,000 pounds and they want the money back by Christmas.
Pathetic, pusillanimous tripe.
Call an election.
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Re experience, and Osborne in that context:
Osborne did warn about the pound at 1.18 euro to the pound, now less than 1.06!
Don't worry, I'm not eligible to vote in the UK, don't have a British passport (perhaps there is some correlation between the 2) and I'm not employed by the conservatives, not the lib dems.
I'm just on these type of sites/blogs to see where policy is heading and then place my bets.
But I'm amfraid of the prospect of having to deal with your ambassador!!!
Cheeriu
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#79 greatandydudley
..........in any generation - irrespective of ones political views - there are politicians that inspire and earn respect - often you can be politically diametrically opposed to them - but you can respect them...
I think you're spot on there, I can't think of many latter day Politicians who, for me personally, fit that category. I believe Vince Cable, as has been mentioned in various previous blogs, is a high calibre politician for different reasons and Frank Field has conviction and intellect. Arguably, another late Scotsman Robin Cook, marital infidelities aside, was out of the same mould.
Clegg and Cameron are somewhat lightweight, and as my vote in the next General Election will go to one of these two, both need to do considerably more to persuade me.
Robinson has detailed Cleggs policy initiatives, some of which aren't entirely without merit. I'm sure to get shot down in flames elsewhere in these pages, but politico's of all parties seem to be hung up on that "Green" thing. It seems de-rigueur to append an environmental handle on almost anything in this way, viz "Green road out of Recession"
Populist, not sure!
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I think that it is now obvious that there is a run on the pound with speculators pushing the pound lower in the certain knowledge that the Brtish Governmen has neither the means, nor the will to stop them.
Eventually the threat of inflation will be too great and the Government will snap and raise interest rates to too high a level. This will be an admission that their policy has failed.
So: fix your mortgages my friends - for as long as you can.
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greatandydudley, have I turned over a new leaf or have you? I recall in recent weeks, during my self imposed exile from Robinsons blog, being infuruated by one or two of your contributions. Soon I'll look forward to them as much as I do those from Balhamu, but not with the grudging respect I give grandantidote.
Now for the third time I found myself agreeing with you, in particular your number #85. As a football writer and photographer the Ince/Keane analogy is a good one.
Cameron doesn't have the strongest line up for a potential Government in waiting aside from William Hague and Liam Fox. He could do far worse than avail himself of the acumen of Kenneth Clarke and hold out an olive branch to David Davis
Clegg likewise only has Cable, Hughes, and Huhne.
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#91 DialSquareDomination
.....To continue the analogy, Brown reminds me of Sam Allardyce.....
More Steve McLaren or Graham Taylor no?
Thinking about it these two were probably more popular in their respective days than Gordon Brown seems to be now.
Posted with apologies to all for going completely off topic without even a tenuous attempt to steer it back on track.
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@ 24 "Is Ratan Tata ( the very very rich Indian owner of Jaguar and Land Rover ) a very very good friend of the dodgy Lord."
Lately I seem to have become another target of the moderators, so here I go again with a politically correct version of a news announcement on today's Italian Press:
The Tata Group will sponsor the Ferrari Formula 1 team next year.
To the moderators: is this version acceptable now?
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# 73 JohnConstable
I agree with you, we are still too inclined to implement the latest political gimmick.
Some of the recent programs on TV showing disused railway lines that are used for cycling and walking reminded me what we had given up in the name of progress.
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#99 giannir
I for one, would be very interested to know the answer to that.
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Nick,
'just in case'. oh come on you know as well as I do that there will be an election in the spring. You know it, I know it, and pretty soon the rest of the country will know it too.
He will want to cut and run before the troops are actually out of Iraq, that way he will not have to set-up an inquiry into the disaster. Our retreat is nearly complete. Why is it that the Americans are taking over the airport when we leave?
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#102 TAG
I thought the americans were going to have an airbase there.
I seem to remember something about it a while back.
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# 79 greatandydudley
Well said, and it pains me that politicians of experience are consistently undermined by the media (usually the right wing media - you know who they are) simply on the grounds of their age.
Little wonder that excellent people like Vince Cable are unwilling to surrender themselves to such treatment by their intellectual inferiors.
God forbid that some of the present poisonous 'boy wonders' should ever get their sticky paws on the levers of power.
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# 79 greatandydudley
Another issue is that the integrity of folk like Vince Cable is unlikely to appeal to party funders.
He would be far too likely to shine a torch beneath the stones they hide under.
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People can talk about line ups as much as they like - but only a nutter would even give brown as much as the time of day.
Brown is a dead man walking - the only question is precisely when he will hit the ground.
There is no competition, there are no differences/similarities to consider, there are no policy changes that will make any difference.
People may like to make lots of noise and pretend that there is some life - but they aren't even fooling themselves.
Brown is toast.
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Hang on a minute Nick, old (sorry, pitifully young and inexperienced) bean...
Before we taxpayers pay for railways infrastructure investment which the private fat cat (foreign?) rail owners are not willing to make themselves (despite grabbing their record taxpayers' subsidies), let's see a full re-nationalisation of the whole shooting match.
Just think of all the effort and resources saved when a separate railway lines company doesn't have to negotiate the same thing dozens of times to dozens of individual dodgy businesses, whose main objective is to make a quick profit, while relegating the moving of the odd passenger around as mere "collateral damage" in the process.
I went to school by British Railways steam train in the 60s. Poor Nick had probably not started cramming for prep school then...
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One of the reasons why my parents moved to the small town I grew up in was because of the railway. It even had a mention in the Patrick McGoohan series Danger Man. Of course, that all went when Beeching got his hands on it.
After months of screaming to the government about the economy, and going purple faced with rage over business development and a fair society, this is the best the boffins in the Liberal Party can come up with?
The way Cameron and Clegg are coming over is like a pair of weak middle-managers trying to curry favour with the board. I get no sense of understanding or anything concrete - their type often suffers from poor strategic skills and are a bit gossipy.
If Britain were a company Cameron and Clegg would be fired, and their divisions (parties) would be fixed. Nobody changes unless they have to so I expect more time in opposition will sharpen their minds.
Mandelson's RM action may be better than policy and yapping, and the upcoming welfare bill may be an opportunity for Labour backbenchers, experts, and the electorate to get engaged. If it is, I'd almost guarantee a Labour win at the GE.
I'm not convinced there will be an early election. I'm thinking, October or 2010. If Labour continue to develop well, I'm predicting an increased majority. So far, I'm the only person saying this. (My fee doubles if I'm right.)
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Clegg is coming up with some good ideas - his ideology seems to be based on good solid Conservative values.
Coupled with Cable the Libdems have a good front line.
However its the rubbish in the closet that's the trouble; Pro Europe, Pro PR, Pro PC, and anti Nuclear.
A large number of voters are switched off by that.
Cameron should be making hay, and he's not.
The recent high polls now seem to have been due to Browns failure rather than the Tories stratagy.
Camerons failure to support Mercer still rankles, and there are serious credibility problems given the extreme loony green ideas he espoused early in his tenure.
Currently given that Osbourne simply isn't delivering, the Tories have a problem.
They desperately need to get their act together.
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I think the 12.5billion on the vat reduction could have been better spent on pretty much anything; it simply costs the tax payer a fortune and doesn't really benefit anyone or do anything to get anyone spending.
They might as well have just burnt the money for all the good it'll do.
I'd like to see the BBC ask Brown why he thinks that a pathetic 2.13% reduction in final prices (which is what a 2.5% vat reduction equates to if fully passed on) would get people to go out and spend all their money.
To me it was either just plain insane, or deliberate sabotage of the public finances (my money's on the latter; along with the deliberate stamp duty leaking by Brown which destroyed the property market it's all just more evidence of a labour scorched earth policy).
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"Interestingly, I sense that the Tories are beginning work on how to re-target public spending to prove that they can get more bang for the buck than the Treasury."
It'd be nice if labour/brown were working on that too, but I think that's too much to expect from them.
Can they (labour) fix it? No they can't. They've thrown away all their tools and are now trying to dig the hole as deep as they can with their bare hands so that the tories have to spend ages trying to fill it in again afterwards.
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This sounds like a reasonable suggestion from the Libs. Not sure if it could work though, but its a step in the right direction of things. This present administration seem to put more store in getting more people into more debt, and this cannot be good for us long term. As the train leasing schemes are already controlled by the banks, where would we get 700 new trains from? The last place building carriages closed down a few years ago, if memory serves me right. I think it is about time we have a leader who puts the people of the country as his/her priority, and not the financial systems which are the reason we're in this mess. Won't get my vote though, but it gets my respects for at least trying!
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Nick, by 'shovel-ready', you mean "projects that can begin now without lengthy planning, design or logistical delays"
May I suggest it could also include wasteful unpopular schemes that should be buried without delay!
A good example would be the ID card fiasco, thought to ultimately cost up to 18bn, perhaps more with the drop in sterling.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4590817.stm
If plans ID cards were quickly buried, I doubt any one would shed a tear - apart from Jackboot Jacquie that is.
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The thing that annoys me about Nick Clegg is that he follows the same old approach of the last 30 years which involves sitting on the fence and sniping at both the main parties without really providing any real answers. They don't really have to because there's little chance of them assuming power. Vince Cable has a good handle on what is going on economically but he's not the leader although it seems as if he is.
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Given that The Lib Dems will not really break the stranglehold of the two main parties the fact that David Cameron is unable to shake off the chances of the disastrous administration that is Gordon Brown speaks volumes for the chances of the Opposition. Unless they can get their act together the country will be subjected to yet further hardship and pain! If that should happen then God help us all.
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Brilliant.
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Authentication used to be fairly straightforward with multiple stores of data, like school records and so forth, but we're living in a post computer and internet world. That's changed the game.
There's certainly a case for better authentication and secure data storage,and both business, government, and regular folks are having to get ahead of that curve so it's not that much of a contentious issue.
I haven't looked that closely at the NHS or ID card systems. I'm surprised they cost as much as they did but cost savings have been found. A similar picture is true with broadband internet.
We're living in a bit of a liquid moment, and I'm hoping the government can capitalise on that while it lasts. My fear is that politician's will fumble the ball and and fall back on habit when that's the last thing we need.
My view remains that things like Silicon Valley and Japan's Shinkansen are key to building a new economy. Not just recovery but world brands like Apple and Sony. This is not an issue of money but attitude.
Three things I was taught when I was young: do the best job you can, keep your nose clean, and Rome wasn't built in a day. This is good advice and something I've learned to appreciate, hopefully, not too late.
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Is this the same Mr Clegg that only a few weeks ago was talking about £25 billion cuts in public expenditure. This would of course lead to a dramatic reduction in demand for goods and services, more factory closures, more and more unemployment, social hardship, and make the overall economic situation worse. Consistent nonsense from the waste your vote party.
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C_E_H
My old man worked for the old GWR and BR.
He wasn't convinced by Beeching. And even less by the reorganisation of BR.
Don't forget it was Harold Wilson who actually implemented the Beeching Plan.
He didn't have to.
He could have turned it over as an appalling Tory attack on fundamental transport requirements for the people-at-large.
But he only saved a few lines that served critical Labour constituencies.
You talk about the Tory and Lib/Dem "divisions" being closed down or having leadership change, as in a commercial corporation.
Using your analogy, Brown would have been fired years ago for completely breaking the financial capabilities of the company.
All that guff about untried youngsters seems odd. Exactly what experience did Blair and Brown bring to the party when New Labour were elected?
Years of ministerial experience? No.
Years of exposure to the real world of commercial business? No. You don't really expect such world-leading intellectuals to have actually have contributed to some real-world wealth generation, do you? Nah...
Years of plotting and planning and learning how to spin a line? Yep. Plenty of.
Government borrowing has now doubled year on year.
UK plc's liabilities going forward are enormous. I don't give a stuff whether it's N or Y percent of a theoretical GDP. It's just too much of an actuarial burden to lay on our kids.
I was amused that Brown and Mandelson had irritated you over the last couple of weeks.
They've irritated me for many, many years.
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"My view remains that things like Silicon Valley and Japan's Shinkansen are key to building a new economy. Not just recovery but world brands like Apple and Sony. This is not an issue of money but attitude."
Yeah.
Give a couple of billion people the choice of having an Apple or Sony product, or getting regular access to clean water, reasonably priced food and shelter and I think I could give you an answer.
Offer somke of the illiterate and innumerate products of our academic system a similar choice and they'd go for The Brand. Because "the State" will deliver the cash to pay for it.
I'm sick and tired of Brown saying "We - the Government will spend...". What he means is that we - the tax-paying population - will be taxed in order for a posturing bunch of social engineers can strut their stuff.
I'd like all children in primary school to be taught that our government doesn't have any money. That any promises it makes to spend are based on their determination to extract money from the pockets of those who work.
(So, firstly - get 'em literate. Then get 'em numerate. Then tell 'em that they will probably spend whatever money they earn in a much more sensible and responsible way than any bunch of elected politicians...)
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65
OK Andy. So for "political pragmatism" read "whatever it takes to keep us in power" regardless of what comprimises/change of values you have to do to achieve it. Like you said, for Cameron, it would arguably be the step too far across the rubicon. I'll be interested to see which way Clegg jumps, should it happen.
I can realistically accept what you say about the numbers and I think, with a sinking heart that you're probably right.
Doesnt mean I've got to like it though. You arguably see a good future for you and your family under another Brown administration.
Regrettably, I cant say that I share that optimism. Sorry. I cannot realistically see a future for my wife and I under Gordon. Not a good one anyway.
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Post #1 "Nick Clegg sometimes speaks sense. . ."
I wonder who is the brains behind the mouth?
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There's been some media comment on the depth and quality of approach of Brown and Blair, versus Osborne and Cameron. The Tories lack the same level of integrity and coherency. Plus, there's other factors like who's really running the show and issues with the greater Tory party. The Liberals are weak in similar ways.
(If you paid more attention, like reading Alistair Darling's explanation of the VAT measure, you'd see things like this more easily. Apart from that, I tend to think you're one of the more genuine and well meaning folks in here, for what it's worth.)
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Its a great pity Mr Cable is not the Liberal leader instead of young Clegg, nevertheless this spending has to better than evermore quangoes.
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#123-CEH "There's been some media comment on the depth and quality of approach of Brown and Blair, versus Osborne and Cameron."
Have you been reading the Daily Mail again?
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So it's facts you want:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article2195538.ece
http://www.transwatch.co.uk/transport-fact-sheet-7.htm
What else, hmm Aston price list maybe?
I have no facts on availability of service, but i do know this.
When was the last time you saw these words at a bus stop:
REPLACEMENT TRAIN SERVICE!
One more thing:
The tracks were closed because they were not profitable, compare this to the humble car where tax revenues pay for mending railway lines.
Sorry, I like trains but they are just not practical.
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A late reply, but in response to 19, the Lib Dems have had a policy for a UK wide high speed rail network for over a year before the conservatives came up with their one. It's not a new idea, and the Lib Dem policy went beyond 'the north' for implementation. To suggest the Tories came up with the idea first is most untruthful.
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I think we had our sillicon valley days in the 1980's.
We lost out again in the production of the ingot, when thatcher shut ravens-craigs in Motherwell, which could have easily been converted to make the iron orr ingot, which just happens to be 90% iron orr and only produced in Japan? yes, the main component in the sillicon age.
I tend to reason that many still hold an attitude problem with assets and publically owned organisations. A mature nation needs to have both elements of public and private sectors, Japan has some of the best public transport in the world.
Is it not strange that many parents who opted out of LEA schools are know demanding place's for their children at LEA schools, do people really send their kids to private schools as a mark of their earnings and when those earnings reduce, Hey! LEA schools are fine?
I tend to think that taxation is universal, if we as a society want to create the best for our people, when must be prepared to pay taxation in order to reach that promised land, no IFS nor BUTS in it, we can only be a progressive fair nation through our taxtion collections.
As far as schools go! I dont have a go at any child that doesn't achieve, I dont think the best form of opinion is by slagging kids off, I tend to take the view that children all have a worth and with the right methods everyone can achieve.
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# 128 derekbarker
Well said.
It would be nice to get past the "If you can't buy and sell it, it ain't got a value" mentality.
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StokeyWelsh, DB,
That's a couples of good comments on individual and collective success. Lynsey Hanley has a comment on that and pulling free of the tar pit. This applies to individuals, groups like this blog and companies, and larger collectives like nation states.
I'm too burned out to say much about that but I've just had a play with taking panorama shots by swivelling around in the office chair. It's the first time I've done it, and the software did a fair even if it wasn't quite perfect job of stitching it together.
Now, I've done some research on panoramic heads for tripods, the no-parallax point, and presentation software for, say, doing a 3D building walkthrough. I used to make stuff when I was a kid and am notoriously tight so might look into making my own tripod mount.
Having ideas, leveraging other folks work, and having fun is something Britain has forgotten to some degree. My 10 minute effort is nothing to shout about but how different is it in concept to Silicon Valley and the Shinkansen?
There's a comment on Marguerite Patten who used to be a celebrated chef during the war years. It's practical stuff but Dale Carnegie's How to Stop Worrying and Start Living is an equally old but good book on developing better attitudes.
Learning to play and be happy is very Zen.
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Yes! A friend was told me, he was worried because he had nothing to worry about.
I like the pasta dishes, plenty of garlic, tomatoes and lots of thyme.
With so many fast food out-lets, are we becoming complacent, with British dishes?
3 D' imagery and the making of things, I like that! successful people have alot to offer others.
A proverb: dont judge the fight by the size of the dog.
Judge the fight by the size of the fight within the dog. Kyou Kara!
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Nick Clegg's main problem is getting heard over the noise of economic meltdown, and Hazel Blears saying this isn't a situation she recognises on the ground.
Giving people things like this to do is an investment in the future and a chance for some folks to raise their self-esteem by doing something useful as opposed to selling debt.
Clegg's first year has been one of fresh ideas and thoughtful consolidation. But it has also been one in which he has signalled clearly WHY voting for his Party would be a vote for real change. A year ago he said "We will do a deal with either Party so long as they will agree to install proportional representation on their first day in Office".
Excellent. The main problem with UK democracy is that it isn't democatic - and this is the first thing to put right. A shame more of the media didn't pick up on this.
www.notbornyesterday.org
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We got a Christmas card from our (Labour) MP this week.
More evidence that an election is close perhaps ?
Merry Xmas to all posters on here, and Nick and his team as well.
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Nick,
I think we have established that there are a number of contributors who see some merit in the Lib-Dems suggestions, whereas there are several others who eschew all things not produced from the mouths of Brown or Darling.
Indeed, there is one contributor who has strayed so far off topic that he has drifted into movie making mode while trying to have fun and be happyat 7.00am (I assume that he is in the UK, but perhaps not).
I would suggest that we go back to the beginning. In the words of the old story....If I wanted to get to Cork, I wouldn't start from here. To which I would ask CEH and others, what is the government currently spending our money on that is either ineffective or wasteful or is not the business of government? Once we get a list, then we have areas for savings for potential real investment over the long run, and not just extra shovel ready spending (and borrowing) just to save face before the impending election.
If the contributors cannot come up with suggestions, then I would argue that, amongst other things, they are lacking in imagination. So where do they want to start?
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We got a Christmas card, as we do every year, from a former Mayor of our local council.
This is the same Mayor who goes around telling people to "work for the council, I shouldn't say this but its a gravy train".
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Shovel Ready.... I like that.
Lets shovel lots of hard earned tax payers money at the problem.
Lets shovel and shovel and shovel now and lets tax later after the election when the twerps cant do anything about it for another 5 years.
Hey Cleggy shovel a few quid over here, carrot marketing is always poorly funded.
Sigh
What can you do?
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#133
Good point
Merry Christmas everyone!
Maybe we should all just take 5 minutes to think about what christmas means (or should mean anyway)
goodwill, charity, forgiveness; and thinking about our fellow men (and women!)
Hope you all have a good one and the very best for the new year - whatever it may bring
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This is nothing to do with this topic but if I hear an 'official' say, once more, that 'lessons will be learnt' I am going to be sick all over my keyboard!
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#28
The Lib Dems expressed these alternative ideas minutes after Ali D sat down after presenting the Pre Budget Report. The Lib Dems have not been tardy and they have not been using hindsight. It is the government who are jumping into action without a shred of common sense between them.
Building sites are sitting uncompleted, when they could be having social housing put on them today (literally) and there is a huge housing stock out there waiting to be upgraded for families to live in, instead of being cooped up in B&Bs.
There are massive social problems being stored up that will increase during the recession and the main thrust of the Labour plan is for everyone to spend on fripparies.
If those of you out there want proportional representation and a sensible approach to the economy and a fairer society you should vote for a positive change in government and not think that a hung parliament will be the best solution. A hung parliament is a weak government change will not occur.
I think the Lib Dems clearly have the best ideas for the economy and society. It is foolish to think that they will never get into power, it's votes that put into power and votes that put out of power.
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Shovel, they mash them with their mettle knifes.
Come on own up! how many people "SIGH" when they look back at history! Hey! did we really do those type's of things.
What inter-Galatic race will condemn the human race, O' to see us' As others see us.
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Why compare brown/darling to cameron/osborne ??
Darling is Browns glove puppet so doesn't count and Brown is a proven incompetent who has taken the countries economy and our lives from a bright new dawn and smashed them into darkness, dispair and debt that will last generations (at least 40 years in the wilderness).
It is inconceivable that he would be trused with power again, any more than you would let the a child into a casino with your live savings, your credit cards, the deeds to your house and the keys to you car.
The only question is who will be our new PM/Chancellor? - And there is only one answer (it isn't going to be clegg and co).
Rather than waste effort on a battle of attrition in words which changes nothing, but consumes a great deal of resources - just start planning how to ensure that Cameron and Osbourn get it right with minimum wasted effort.
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97 - I fear I have the bloggers equivalent of bi-polar syndrome - I try to match bigotted rants with bigotted rants - but can on occasions try to match reasoned debate with reasoned debate....
Typical back-bencher in that respect I suppose!
121 - On the balance of probability - yes I do think Brown and Darling are marginally the better of two evils - thats why I think if either side could attract the intellect of Cable - it would be an advantage for all of us.
I fear Cameron and Osborne (in paticular) would be an unmitigated disaster - as opposed to a disaster we are now in...
Interestingly though - the calamity of the crisis has hit home with me this morning - rading that the French are in official recession...whats so different about the French you may ask??
Having worked for a company that spent £ millions and 18 months - trying and failing- to launch a credit card in france - I got a unique insight into French fiscal life....basically - the French dont borrow - or borrow very very little - there are certainly no great credit card,loan - even mortgage excesses there - the credit boom part of the crisis globally cannot be attributed to their problems....it will be very interesting I think politically to track their recession and ours - to clearly see how much of this crisis is actually based on credit and how much is'nt - clearly credit got the world in to this mess - but it will be key to see who comes out soonest and who comes out shallowest - to gauge how to best mitigate against it in future....
If Cameron and Osborne are right in the rationale - our recession will be longer,deeper harder than the French - if Brown and Darling are right - then our recession curve will roughly match the French....
That may not mean much now - but it could drive anti recessionary - adverse credit thinking for a generation or more..
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Why does everyone still keep on presenting burrowing as the solution? Reckless lending and burrowing has created this mess and somehow they think it can be solved with more burrowing.
Gordon go to a debt advice charity, they can help you!
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143
twoapenny
Are you a government mole?
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twoapenny @143,
Burrowing was very helpful on Watership Down. Fancy a carrot?
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#143
Brown has been digging the hole for so long, he has become the hole.
What type of hole? - I'll leave that to you.
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143
I dont think the rabbit has come out the whole, the ferrets are awaiting?
its not an ideal position, but weigh it up/
Banks collapsing, Industry in free fall, people evicted at an alarming rate and up to 10million unemployed.
There isn't really a choice is there?
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That would be the alternative if nothing was done. Noone is advocating that. We can't keep producing money out of an empty hat ad infinitum.
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#147
Unemployement VS working for companies that will go bust before you get paid, or for money that will be rendered worthless by the time your receive it...
At least unemployment provides an income and doesn't take any effort.
Learn a musical instrument, take up a new sport, educate yourself...
Labour have always hated private industry - especially small businesses (they want everyone to be in mass organised employment, signed up with a union, under their control) - but that sort of 'employment' mainly exists in the public sector now - soon there will be noone to foot their bills.
Borrowing will not 'fix' the problem - it will just hide it for a little bit longer.
Cold turkey is coming - because the drugs don't work any more.
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#147
yes there is a choice.
On a day when the Times is describing the latest borrowing figures as "jaw droppingly awful" it is not good enough to claim there is no alternative.
Spending needs to be cut.
Tax needs to be lowered for the bottom half of the workforce.
Business VAT needs suspending.
Emergency measures need to be taken but not more government borrowing.
The government is totally and utterly out of control; sending in their economic advisors to try and save Woolworths and bailing out a private company because the Home Secretary's constituency is in the West Midlands is shambolic. They are losing credibility by the hour not the day.
Today the RBS balance sheet has been appropriated by the government at the insistence of the national audit office; as a resut we are the most indebted nation in the developed world.
Kindly stop offering the platitude that more borrrowing will solve this.
Cut public sector pensions.
Call an election
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149 - your comment that "Labour has always hated private business - especially small one's" ....is GROSSLY wide of the mark...
It is simply untrue...
It harks back to a perception of old cloth cap extreme Socialism - that if it was ever relevant in this country - many would debate it was'nt - was certainly thrown out and discarded 20 plus years ago...
In the past decade MORE new Businesses have started and grown and suceeded than ever before - more entrepreneurs have been created and suceeded, and more people now control and run their own businesses than ever before.
Historically , low interest rates, low inflation , carrots and inducements to take on staff and to set up businesses - have been greater and more prevelant in the last decade than ever before...
Blair - did many things wrong - he also did many things right - and your bigotry and animosity to anything not Tory Blue - clouds your comments...
And if you dont believe me,or take on board the facts of the argument then listen to relevant voices....those real doyens of the Labour Party - real socialists (not) like Sugar,like Branson,like Digby Jones - not necessarily complimentary about NuLabour - but certainly not dismissive of the culture of opportunity it fostered...
Indeed - the domestic boom and bust of the 80's and early 90's did more harm to British small business and entrepreneurism than anything seen between 1997 and 2007 - as record numbers of people IN work....confirms!
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Sounds mostly reasonable.
I'd probably spend more of the money on buying cheap land and building on it rather than trains, but, all in all, fairly sensible suggestions
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Isn't the BBC, and therefore all its offerings, supposed to be politically impartial?
I am a bit of a newcomer to reading this blog, and it would appear to me that Nick Robinson is an avid fan of the Labour party.
Whilst everyone is entitled to their political opinion, I am baffled as to why the BBC allows such politically biased "blogging" by one of their employees on the Beeb website.
In fact, if it doesn't stop, and if we don't receive an apology for it, then I will start to raise official complaints until something is done about it.
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#GAD
In the past decade, a lot of small businesses in my area have closed. This was mostly due to the building of a Tesco store, which has done so well that it is now being extended.
I can well remember Labour's introduction of the IR35, which did so much to help the self-employed.....NOT.
Both the above have been detrimental to small businesses in a big way - and both happened under Labour's watch.
Helping people is irrelevant to this government, whose only goal seems to be to remain in power for as long as possible and to get as much money out of us while they are there.
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Why have none of the Westminster journalists picked up on the very intense gossip of a General Election on the third Thursday in Feb; come on, get with the pace. If a dimwit like me can find this out, I am sure you can; or perhaps you already know but your Labour cronies have asked you to keep quiet.
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Regarding the Election fever that is currently rampant..did anyone see This Week,last night?
Interesting that Nick,whom I have accused of Labour leanings,probably gave Cameron one of his strongest arguments,should an early election be called by Brown.
He said that Browns reasoning for an election may well be that it's better to do it now,before the very worst of the recession bites,in order to get back into power before his economic 'solutions' are seen to be a total disaster.
In other words,he knows that 2010 is too late for him and his Government,as they will have been rumbled by then.
So much for putting the Country and its people first!This is indeed bravery beyond the call of duty!
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Any one see that Ol'Gordon has claimed that the UK can be a "beacon of hope" to the rest of the world?
I wonder whether we can be a beacon to cheer other countries, as they look at us and think "thank god we're not in as bad a situation as the UK"
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Funny how we're always hearing Gordon blowing his own trumpet, but we're kept in the dark about the more pressing issues, such as how we are viewed by other countries.
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#128 derekbarker
I absolutely agree that decently equiped schools (not necessarily new - but provided with the necessities) and great teachers can get the best out of children. For some it will be more academic than others. I'm very happy to get skilled plumbers, electricians etc as well as Professors of History or Applied Physics.
In fact, I value good builders, nurses, teachers or medical staff more highly than bankers who invent derivatives.
I certainly don't think that the value of a life's output is the same as the income generated!
My little comment was about getting children to understand that when they say "The State should give us...", they should have been taught that State spending comes from taxes on people... It's not just "magicked" up.
(Hmmm. Maybe this isn't the best time to have made my comment. Seems we really are seeing governments suddenly pulling cash out of thin air... Oh, well.)
My intention was simply to ensure children don't imagine "somebody else" "should" deliver cash or services just because we'd like to have whatever we want. A bit of personal responsibility goes a long way towards making society better.
Corporation tax becomes simply part of the cost-base rolled into the price of products and services we buy...
So it all falls on the ability of individuals to pay enough taxes to match up with the intentions of governments to spend...
I'm not in any way opposed to paying tax. I just like it to be as fair as possible and spent as wisely and effectively as possible.
Have to admit I'd be quite happy with a better structure of personal tax - less on the poorer and more on the richer.
I'd prefer it to be more direct. The NI approach hurts employers as well as employees. Don't see any reason why the upper rate of tax should be sacrosant... Just depends on what you consider to be the actual income that should fall in that bracket.
It appals me that someone decently achieving and getting (around) GBP 40-45K gets hit with the same rates as some inventive banking idiot who trousers GBP2Million...
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Good old Gordon has promised a 'can do attitude'. Nooooo. please give us a 'can do not' attitude. No more of this torture, take the lib dems as your role model Gordon. Give us all a break. Stop your endless sycophantic smiling, sweaty handshakes and nervous twitches. It'll all be over soon enough. Then you and your party can rest and sink into oblivion.
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No150 Robin
Political parties exist to win elections, and form governments for as long as they can. Do you agree that those calling for an election on a daily basis are beginning to sound like demented parrots.
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The one "CASH-COW"! - waiting to be tapped in terms of income,investment,and employment - that no-one has yet seemed to cotton on to is TOURISM!
With the Pound - trading at the rates it is - this Country should be marketing itself to be the No 1 WORLDWIDE DESTINATION in 2009!...
We have incomparible scenery,incomparible history,we have beaches,cities,towns,countryside,hills,lakes,mountains the LOT!....
Central Governement,Local Government,Tourist Agencies,Hotels,Hotelliers,Attractions etc etc - could be should be gearing up....to fill every available BED - ever available attraction - WITH TOURISTS....
wOULD'NT COST RELATIVELY MUCH TO FOCUS NOW ON CLEANING UP,CLEARING UP,SPRUCING UP - ALL OF OUR TOWNS,CITIES,ATTRACTIONS ETC....
Bring inward investment and currency in - save jobs - create jobs....
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I wonder how much money the state would save by radically simplifying their tax system?
Imagine only two types of personal tax:
Income Tax (3 bands at 0%, 30% and 50%)
VAT (single band at 20%)
and two types of Business tax
Corporation tax (same system as we have now for SME and Large Corps but diff %)
Capital Gains tax
How many billions of pounds and how many thousands of hours a year would that save? Enough to reduce overall tax take for any business/individual!
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#162 GAD
wOULD'NT COST RELATIVELY MUCH TO FOCUS NOW ON CLEANING UP,CLEARING UP,SPRUCING UP - ALL OF OUR TOWNS,CITIES,ATTRACTIONS ETC....
Good idea. ...why not let our prisoners do it - and as community service penalties.
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#126 Septic
Thank you for disclosing your sources.
The comparisons are interesting and, while purporting to be independent, do appear to have been skewed.
For example, "if a diesel train carries ten or fewer passengers, it is more polluting than if they each drove a Freelander" (parahrased). On the other hand, if the train (Sprinter) has 150 seats, all occupied (and with some standing, as often happens), then that has got to be less polluting than private cars. It all comes down to occupancy rates.
Not forgetting Clegg's proposals include extending the range of electric trains, which tend to be cleaner and greener than the diesels.
The comparative costs for road versus rail are based on costing for new routes. The propsals cover upgrading of existing lines and re-opening of former routes.
One criticism of Beeching was that the report only considered journeys over branch lines in isolation, ignoring their role as feeders into main line services.
As I've said before, Clegg's proposals are not without merit and could be a good starting point for debate.
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151 - sorry but your comments are untrue.
This government has created so much red tape, the most complex tax system in history, health and safety regulations that would be a total joke if they were not costing businesses millions every year.
They have introduced tax legislation such as s660 & IR35 which is leaving small businesses in the dark as to whether they are going to be hit for thousands in extra taxes every year.
All this adds up to higher prices in shops etc.
Why do i know....................because I am a small business owner.
Also your comments of record numbers in jobs is laughable.
They job figures don't include the numbers on income support and other benefits, the government guideline is to get as many people off jobseekers allowance asap.
How do i know...................because my partner works for the benefits agency.
Your Labour soap box is crashing along with thousands of others because hard working British taxpayers have had enough of their hard earned cash being stolen by Gordon Brown and his socialist cronies.
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151 Wow. You said it for all of us. Thanks!
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wooooops silly me. I did not of course mean you 151 but 166.
Tee many martoonis at this auspicious time of year.
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166 UKSILENTMAJORITY
Very well said!
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When the Tories were defeated there was a "the government MUST go" feeling in the country.
In my world that now exists today for Labour - but the Tories have still not resolved all of the fractures and change required from 1997. The Lib Dems are quite popular and will make gains but won't stand a chance of government.
For the sake of the country the Tories should consider an electoral alliance - in exchange for PR - with the Lib Dems. Demographics must mean that along with Nationalist party gains Labour would be wiped out and punished for the economy - for which Gordon does have a lot of responsibility - Iraq, 10p, PFI etc etc.
Then in the long run the country would benefit from the genuine democratic aspirations of the people.
Instead of, for example, Gordon saying he is listening and then tries to foist GM on us within days - and when 80 odd per cent of the public are against it.
Gordon saved the world - or the banks? Please.
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166 I too own small businesses - more than one of them.
Yes there is unnecessary health and safety regulation - MOST of it form Europe - MUCH of it not opted out of by Major NOT by Blair...
Yes - there is too much red tape - but fundamentally - certainly in the English Midlands...
Many many jobs have been created and many many small businesses and businessmen have THRIVED in the past decade...
I dont know which geographical part of the UK you are in - that may be very relevant to your perception - which I respect but dont agree with...
However,the industrail English Midlands " laid waste" by Thatcher......has recovered and done very well since....thank you very much!...
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#171 GAD
However,the industrail English Midlands " laid waste" by Thatcher......has recovered and done very well since....thank you very much!...
.........................
I wonder if the Post Office will fare as well?
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...and anyway - Blair could have chosen to change the H&S Regs in Europe if he'd really wanted to - after all, he had 10 years in which to do it.
Instead, he gave even more of our freedoms away.
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2009 will not bring 'beacon of hope' - we're more likely to see a 'blaze of anger' directed at Brown and Nu Labour and their shambolic 12 year road to ruin.
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Well actually 166 I am in the North Midlands and I have seen manufacturing disappear under New Labour.
Engineering & manufacturing jobs going abroad year on year because of high taxation.
I lost 3 clients last year alone due to companies moving abroad because of costs.
Now in terms of the wasteland created by Thatcher...................do you mean the loss making utility industries, the loss making coalfields, or the loss making rail networks.
Perhaps it might be something to do with smashing the socialist unions that bought this country to it's knees?
Surely as a businessman you should understand that businesses are not run by governments?
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Isn't it odd that this government has decided that pareliament should sit for the shortest period in living memory?
While laws and regulations pour out of Brussels and get so little scrutiny?
I was in favour of a European Economic Community.
Where is it?
Does anyone seriously believe that France would allow Air France, Electricite de France, France Telecom to be taken over by some "foreign" investors?
But we poor saps in the UK have allowed nationally owned French companies to pick up UK assets.
I've worked for a European - nationally owned - company. Spent years commercially involved with most of the current EU countries. Have a French wife and a daughter studying in France.
Still hate the EU construct. Undemocratic. Elitist. Still allows the French to assume they will provide the Intellectual stimulus, while Germany delivers the Industrial powerhouse.
What we've had is too much kow-towing. It's getting that way in the UK.
A bunch of elected folk. Intelligent, but with minimal realism. Making decisions about stuff they don't understand. But encouraging "the people" to trust them and rely on the generosity of the State to provide a life.
On the next ballot paper, I'd like an option to vote for selected individuals from any party to be integrated into a government of the common-sensical.
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@flamePatricia
151 certainly didn't say it for me, lets see if he's still citing damage done by the Tories during their last stint when we are past the START of the current DEPRESSION (not 'downturn')!
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170-
Undeniably Brown is NOT popular.
The difference between now and 1997 -and indeed 1979 -is that the majority of the electorate do not consider that the Opposition is any better!....
Blair was 30% ahead on opinion polls for 12 months prior to 1997......Thatcher was similarly ahead....
There is mood to change......but the mood is - there is nothing credible to change to!
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175 -I agree businesses are not run by Governments - but Government policy can certainly be the difference between success and failure.....
My business are comensurately stronger NOW than they were in the mid 1990's....
Many good solid profitable businesses went to the wall in the West Midlands in the 1980and 1990's as a direct result of the UK led boom and bust!
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I don't agree with the EU but we're in it now. I would like the UK to leave but that's highly unlikely given the state of the pound at the moment.
For what it's worth, Margaret Thatcher thought we were paying too much and actually secured a very sizeable EU rebate for this country. Tony Blair gave it all back again - and more - about 3 years ago!
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#178 GAD
There is mood to change......but the mood is - there is nothing credible to change to!
.................
I would rather vote for anyone else to get this sham of a government out, and I think a lot of people on this blog feel the same way.
Don't forget - while our children are toiling hard to pay back the massive debt, Gordon and his cronies will be enjoying a gold-plated state pension, whilst the rest of us will have to sell our homes and whatever else we have to survive.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I agree, some businesses particularly the service sector have thrived, however, we have to make and export products to balance the books, something that has been in decline for a long time.
The uk boom and bust from the 80's-90's was a lesson not learned by Blair and Brown.
They have spent money like it was going out of fashion.
PFI is at approx 1 trillion pounds, house prices have been allowed to outstrip wages all because credit was made too freely available.
Anyone who thinks that splashing out billions to the banks is going to work is either niave or a fool.
The only way to stop this happening again is to bring house prices back down in line with wage levels.
This will erradicate high risk borrowing, the very cause of this problem.
However, if house prices have to crash to these levels then there is going to be some very serious pain.
Pain which an elected government will not wish to discuss.
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#157
Beacon: A signal fire, especially one used to warn of an enemy's approach
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181 sellingout
yeah BNP
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#181
I'm with you on this one. I'm from 'Up North' and live in (what used to be) a strong Labour area - you'll not find many people that way inclined now
There are a lot of professional benefit claimants nowadays - it's a lifestyle choice now, not a stepping stone to getting back on your feet like it used to be. A lot of people are sick and tired of paying for poor services and supporting the many single parents granted a living just for having kids with no partner.
At this point I should also say that you can't generalise these things - not everyone on benefits is playing the system, lots of people are unfortunate and are looking to work again quickly. I reckon the factor (where I live only, not the country) is about 60% making a living from benefits and 40% genuinely seeking work.
I agree that we need to help people in trouble, this is a must in society; but I know families that have never worked and have no intention of doing so. The problem is that benefits are very hard to get when you come out of work (i've been there) and it takes about 6 months to get what your entitled to - so there is a lot of reluctance to come off the system. People play the system for everything they can, and some are experts at it. A lot of this could be solved by making claims quickly so that if you do need help you can get it quickly and then people would not be as averse to coming off the system and finding work
My vote will not be going to Labour. The problem is that none of the alternatives look that great. The current lot must go, that's for sure
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fairlyopenmind @ 119
I did not know that it was Harold Wilson who actually implemented the Beeching Plan.
In the same way in that it was Margaret Thatcher who mostly converted the Grammar schools into the comprehensively failed Comprehensive School system.
Which in my opinion, is the main reason, along with the stalled technical education stream, why this country is no longer particularly competitive.
Well meaning politicians have an awful lot to answer for.
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After G.Brown Esq performance we will be shoveling .......for many years to come.
After today's performance lecturing OPEC on oil fluctuations or stability, how I agree with the head of OPEC, get your house in order first. If my memory serves me right it was only months ago Brown was telling OPEC to bring prices down now they are down he wants stability. If we had a pound that was were it was 6 months ago petrol would be 70p. With the highest fuel tax in Europe .
So Mr Brown take heed from OPEC and you might just might be able to save the world sorry your seat.
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#185 laughatthetories
....don't tempt me.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
The mechanisms are in place to ensure that the western democratic governments have no alternative but to destroy their societies. The State might consist of people but as a system they operate as an organic entity in their own right. They have to feed to survive and will continue to consume until nothing is left. It would be pointless to even try to slow their rate of consumption if only because their electorates will never permit it.
Most individuals are...
http://www.howitends.co.uk/the-collapse-of-the-west.php
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#192 peaceandunity
Have you read the page on Pensions and Savings?
Makes very interesting (and depressing) reading.
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#185 laughatthetories
Or ABG
Anybody But Gordon!
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From the BBC website:
Mr El-Badri, Opec's secretary general, told the BBC the UK had benefited more than most countries from high oil prices because its taxes on petrol and oil extraction were the "highest in Europe".
"Instead of looking at Opec he [Brown] should look at his policies and try to reduce taxes," he told the World at One. "Then he can talk to us."
Can we give this honest man (El-Badri) an honourary Knighthood for speaking the plain truth?
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163. Nataku @163,
Your excellent idea is just too good.
In addition to radically simplifying the tax system, it will also make tens of thousands of public sector Inland Revenue workers and private sector accountants and tax lawyers redundant.
It will also stop Brown from meddling and complicating and sticking his stubby fingernail-bitten fingers into everyone's business.
As with the proverbial ever-lasting light-bulb that has been hidden away from the world, the 'powers that be' will not allow such a sensible scheme to proceed.
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Brilliant. The annointed one has now managed to upset the leaders of OPEC. They are quite right to point out that The Treasury has done very well out of the motorist in the past decade. He's only complaining because the high oil prices are affecting his Election chances.
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#187 JohnConstable
I do believe that most politicians who become MPs (subsequently Ministers - apart from those selected from the Lords) come into the House with good intentions.
But the path to Hell is paved with good intentions.
Problem is that too many make statements and introduce bills, either to further their careers or to show that "the Government is doing something".
I'd prefer 5 well-thought through Bills a year to the thousands of new laws, regulations that are nodded through.
I repeat an old comment.
I believe that, before any vote, every participating MP should be made to swear under oath that he/she has actually read, understands and considers the impact of any new bit of legal stuff that hits the Law Book.
I doubt that any two MPs could give you an overview of all the legislation that made it to the Statute Book over the last 12 months.
(Far as I can see that's about 1,500 changes. Much of it just on the nod from Brussels. Another tranche of tripe that will be adjusted, amended or allowed to just sit there without being properly implemented, as this mob thinks about headlines and "Bills passed", rather than practical delivery. Too many lawyers.)
I'd be very happy to see more
MPs from a real-world working background. Including Union Leaders with "bottom".
There will always be precocious youngsters who could shine a light in any area of life. But it seems faintly rediculous that Tony Benn's 19 year old grand-daughter is likely to stand for Parliament.
Possibly bringing an epoch-defining intellect... (Although her granddad was more bluster than intellect...) But equiped with just how much "life-experience" to be able to decide whether to spend a lot of money to protect troops in a war they don't want to fight in a place we shouldn't be?
Cut down on the law-making. Get better at delivery. Can't be that hard, surely?
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194 yellow
"Or ABG
Anybody But Gordon!"
Be careful what you wish for.. Peter Mandelson?
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fairlyopenminded
Good point. But it's all the new laws which help to make Government rich, and it's people frightened.
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I pressed for a Shinkansen style network in ths blog before either the Tories or Liberals mentioned it. What irritates me is how they're trying to make out they're the only folks with ideas and snaffle the whole pie.
You need to learn what team you're on, buddy. OPEC are just out for themselves and damn the rest of us. Plus, high oil prices affect the global economy, raising prices of manufactured goods and transport.
Then you'll be thanking the government for passing good law or refactoring bundles of law that were turning into junk. Cuz, this selective blindness and whining is getting annoying. Fairlyopenmind doesn't do what he says on the tin. Get it?
...
As for my earlier playing with my camera, I just thought up a new product. The hard part is refining the design, seeing if there's a market for it, and getting it manufactured. I've got that unqiue gut feeling I get when something is a winner. Haven't had that for a few years.
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#193
I have now. I always suspected that giving my hard earned to somebody else to look after for a profit sounded too good to be true. One of the reasons I avoided it.
article:
"The whole pension industry is tightly regulated by the State. The Government establishes the requirements for company pension funds so there is nothing voluntary about the way that they are operated. This means that the pension provisions made by companies are a form of 'tax' on the general population."
Who could sleep at night knowing that! More likely to cause anxiety and insomnia. When will GB be affected? Still. It was fun to see him prancing around the middle east in his Suit.
Have you seen this?
http://karmabanqueradio.com/
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#199 laughatthetories
Fair enough, got me on that one, although thinking about it he wouldn't be able to be PM would he, what with being a "Lord" and all that, so wouldn't be able to sit in the HoC, unless he did a Viscount Wedgewood Benn, but I doubt he has the principles to do that.
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#199
"Be careful what you wish for.. Peter Mandelson?"
At least we'd know how we were on with Baron Mandelson of Fartlepool and Hoy. And it'd be nice to have a Lord as PM don'cha' know, what? (is that constitutionally allowed - would there have to be a bye-election?)
Actually, if we can't have a Lib Dem / Labour coalition I'd far rather have Mandelson that McCavity - Mandelson may be slimy etc, but he does have some sensible ideas and does sometimes seem to listen to advice...
He might be open to some genuine constitutional change, too, and wouldn't be McLabour.
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I've just read the article about Brown and OPEC, good isn't it.
Perhaps we could invite a few of our Arabic friends over to lecture the government that they should no longer allow boom and bust.
Heaven help us if the price of oil spikes again soon, with the pound as weak as it is, we'll all be paying 2 quid a litre for petrol. Now, that will make the 2% VAT cut look sick.
Anyway, I think Gordon has got this the wrong way round. First you learn how to run the country, then retire from it, then go lecturing all around the world.
By the way, all that stuff about burrowing at #143 had me falling about laughing.
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What the hell have the scallies done to deserve a light railway they won't be paying a penny for and what the hell has the English countryside done to deserve being obliterated by messrs Wimpey and co?
Environmentally sustainable my backside. Everything seems to go back to letting the construction industry do what the hell it pleases and robbing future taxpayers to pay for it.
That's precisely what caused the credit crunch in the first place but of course Gordon Brown had nothing to do with any of that he was on the beach at Cape Cod with Ted Kennedy and John Kerry.........
hang on.....weren't they influential members of the Democrat administration when the whole junk mortgage business started off?
You don't think Gordon might have put them up to it do you? But surely the BBC would have mentioned it wouldn't they? Surely the BBC can't be shielding NuLab it's unthinkable.
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#201 C_E_H
I do what it says on the tin.
I argue that politicians - didn't say whether Labour, Tory (or so long ago that it doesn't matter) Liberal MPs spend far too long thinking up brave new stuff, but too little time implementing real controlled change.
The fact is that the rate of legislation / regulation over the past decade has been higher than ever before. Check it out.
That's not an attack on anything other than the simlistic desire of politicians to say "I/We've passed a new Bill, so stuff will get better".
It's like me getting together with folks in the pub, going home and getting fingers on the PC, then printing out a statement that "Crime will reduce by 2011".
Lovely thought. But without some proper delivery behind it, it's as useful as a beach wind-break in a hurricane.
That's all.
If MPs took one whole year to pick through and discard the crass stuff that has never been implemented, we as citizens would have a bit more chance to know exactly what laws we may be breaking by accident.
(By the way. I read all of Darling's stuff in the PBR. I still think that reducing VAT by 2.5percent, with a promise to re-instate it later, makes no economic sense. Still say that, had he chosen to adjust VAT by a bigger margin on energy supply, it would have made a much bigger impact for the people who were deprived of a 10p tax-band.)
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@144-147
You know that little tangent was so good, I almost wish I'd made that typo deliberately. ;-)
@163
It's so nice to see the small state argument being considered again. Hallelujah. Couple that with a serious strategic shift away from financial services and back to real production, the only real way to generate wealth (as China has worked out very successfully), and the UK might yet get itself back into the game.
If the UK scrapes through this recession without a total collapse, but doesn't rethink it's dependence on the smoke and mirrors world of banking, then the next time the situation will be that much more likely to be irretrievable.
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No you don't. You never acknowledge anything Labour do right even if it's put under your nose, and never have anything bad to say about the Tories or Liberals. It's just one whine after another. Trust me, it never solves anything or seals deals, and always comes back to bite you in the ass.
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(not sure if that last one went through, I'll try again in two parts)
Good on the LibDems - I've got a few problems with the specifics, but there's lots of good in this. Far more constructive than some of the yah-boo politics we've had from some politicians of all stripes. There's been some sensible ideas in a similar "infrastructure" vein over at the Spectator :
http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/3086766/if-taxpayers-cash-is-to-be-spent-in-clunking-fistfuls-what-should-it-be-spent-on.thtml
I like the suggestion of funding maintenance on historic buildings like churches, and procuring a few extra ships for the Navy. The principle that we should try first to move forward stuff that our children were going to end up paying for anyway, seems a sound one. Thus we should bring forward spending on the carriers, not put them back. And the suggestion to bribe civil servants to give up their pensions is either madness or genius.... But it would put money into the economy now, and reduce the liabilities on our children.
Sceptic_Kev - you really are putting up a straw man to say that when the least efficient trains are run almost empty, then they're less energy efficient than 10 cars. On the other hand, there's several parts of the railway network which see electric trains carrying 1200+ people with standing room only. If they're only using the energy of 50 cars - that's a great result surely? And more importantly, electric trains have a more robust, sustainable energy supply than things that rely on oil, where appropriate, they're a better way to "electrify" transport than electric cars and similar nonsenses. Ditto trams and trolley buses for short-distance travel in urban areas. They're not the whole answer to our long-term travel problems, but they're a good place to start. You say there's no trains near you, well part of the LDs' suggestion is to restore some train lines, perhaps you'll get lucky. And yes, we should be designing houses and workplaces around railway hubs - it's a slow process, but it's got to happen.
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As spdgodofcheese (#112) mentioned, I worry about how much of a stimulus to the British economy new trains will be - commuter trains are still built in Derby, but most of the sexy new ones come from elsewhere. Ditto with the smart meter proposal - it needs doing, but better to do that gradually at a pace that can allow a UK industry to come to capacity, rather than rush it and rely on foreigners. The whole smart grid stuff goes a whole way beyond replacing meter readers - it will allow big savings in power station construction and a greater proportion of intermittent generators to be used, by turning down stuff like fridges at times of peak demand. It's more important than a lot of the more high-profile generation stuff. @braveSouter (#118) - Clegg was proposing to save 20bn by ditching ID cards and a large slug of the NHS computer - and put that same 20bn back in the hands of the people it belongs to. The money doesn't disappear if it's not spent by government, it doesn't leave the economy - and it would probably have more effect in the hands of the people rather than filling the bottom line of American computer companies. And to be fair, that was during their conference, before the crisis really kicked off, so Clegg might ask you the question "When the facts change, I change my mind - what do you do, Sir?" By almost any measure, there was a step change in the size of the problem when Lehmans went pop a few days later. @fairlyopenmind - look through [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]which shows that in 1997, about 30% of UK plc was owned by foreigners, that went up to over 50% within 5 years of this government taking power. On the oil front - don't forget that we are still a big oil producer, the Treasury based the 2008 budget on something like $84 oil and Gordon has benefited massively from high oil prices. He doesn't like to boast about that one though....
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The reason that the Conservatives are falling back in the polls is that Labour have returned to the full spin cycle and the opposition MPs just counter by explaining their policies or attacking the ineffectiveness of government. The press too seem blind to the errosive power of spin.
We live in a "Reality TV" world. Millions read the tabloid papers and gossip rags where the content is aimed at those with attention spans of 20 seconds or less. Spin is often snappy and clever. It plays well in this evironment. How much easier to listen to "Do nothing leader, of do nothing party" rather than to the target of such jibes explaining, albeit passionately, the difference between an immediate, comprehensive loan guarantee system compared to a dedicated government loan fund that only deals with $1B of a much bigger problem. In a society (if ours can still be called that) that has grown irresponsible and lazy, always looking to blame someone else or be bailed out of trouble, how easy to believe that "it's all the afault of the US" and "We can just spend our way out of this"?
Labour are giving people catchphrases and handouts. Complex arguments will never get a fair hearing until either the spin is denounced or stopped or the pain gets so bad that the people lose their desire for quick, empty answers.
Worse still for the Tories is that this audience is still hungry for Sleaze and the press are well practiced at revealing it and enjoy the boost it gives to their ratings. One whiff of Tory sleaze and we are reminded of the late 90s and ask "have they really changed? Are they really ready to be trusted again?" And even though by now Labour are equally tainted by sleaze, they were never the party of sleaze, and no matter how much smoke there appears to be, they never seem to actually catch fire.
A partisan media will never attack spin because a) they like using it too much themselves and b) banning glib remarks and clever lies in favour of serious debate and home truths is a bit too grown up and and patriotic - not very popular attributes at the moment.
I would like to see opposition MPs and impartial reporters (as the BBC should be) stop trying to debate the issues whenever Labour spin and instead, point out the spin and ask they why they are doing it, or simply challenge its assertions. Make spin the subject of debate until it is removed.
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Challenging the spin:
When they say:
"Do nothing leader...etc"
You Say:
"That's just spin."
"The conservatives have policies, DC was explaining just this morning ... You may not agree ... You can't say they are suggesting nothing"
"When are you going to stop spinning and debate the issues?"
When they add:
"...because it's the right thing to do" at the end of every sentence:
You say:
"Adding - We're right - to everything you say is just spin"
"How is removing 2.5% tax in a market that is already discounting at 20%+ going to stimulate sales significantly?"
"How is giving business a significant administrative problem for a trivial (2.1%) price discount helping business?"
"How is taxing businesses that are VAT neutral an extra 2.5% on fuel helping them?"
"How is this 'Right'?"
When they preface every answer with:
"This a global crisis started in the US"
You say:
"That's just spin"
"British banks may have bought dodgy US derivatives, but they lent at 120% LTV, at 5X+ salary. British banks encouraged massive credit card debt."
"The US didn't prevent the UK government from taking action".
Next week Mandy will come up with something new and Brown, Harmen, Smith, Darling, Cooper et all will be word perfect as everything they say is packaged with a clever or subtle untruth.
First identify the spin, then attack its untruth. The public don't like spin, they just can't always see it. Show the public that everything Labour says is spun and they will be finished or at least reduced to arguing on merit. They still have cover up and manipulating figures, but at least it's a start.
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The article's list is a little long and being prefaced with "Liberals Green Proposals Include:" allows for selective reporting. There could be other worthy proposals and the ordering of those listed might not be as Clegg intended.
Taking it at face value, is leading with "5-year programme to insulate schools and hospitals" their top priority? If not then they should lead with their best foot forward.
Affordable housing and efficient, accessible public transport seem higher priority to me.
Even so, I have been barely self employed this last year and consequently our family income has halved. We don't eat out, my clothes are shabby, some of the kids clothes don't fit as well as they did, the house is cold and the car is 3Kmiles past its service date. We ain't poor, but we are in the margin where some of the "tinkering" might affect us.
By far the biggest impact to us has been the interest rate cut. We have precious little savings but my pension has been hit hard like it was last recession. Ever notice how when markets fall 50% your pension falls 55% and when the market grows 50% your pension grows 20%? I digress, ... again.
My point is, you have to be able to heat your house properly before you really benefit from insulation. I might get a £1K grant, but if I have to put in £50 myself, I'm not going to take food off the table to do it.
The other reason to lead with your best (and most relevant) foot is that if you are looking to come together and agree a set of policies in the common interest, you're never going to get agreement on the whole list, so make sure the best bits get the most focus. Even drop the peripheral stuff until the main stuff is implemented.
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@thomasak001 (#214)
LDs can't complain too much, it's pretty much been copy and pasted from their website :
http://www.libdems.org.uk/home/nick-clegg-launches-the-green-road-out-of-the-recession-98449610
The detailed document with an attempt at costs (again, possibly a bit fanciful, but at least they have a go) and specifics on which railway lines they would build etc is at
[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
Nick - would it have been so difficult to provide links to the primary sources, to allow people to read it for themselves?
I guess their thinking is that they've pretty much listed things in order of how quickly money can be got into the economy - upgrades and maintenance require relatively little paperwork compared to building new things, but of course you have to have the capacity to do them already available. It sounds like the strain is already starting to bite in the insulation installation business.
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# 163 Nataku
Well said.
I have argued the case for years that simplification of personal taxation would get rid of the complex nonsense of separate NI charges, and make tax calculations more transparent for the payer. It would also reduce the bureaucratic load and allow a significant reduction in HMRC costs.
I would caveat your proposal only to the extent that I would treat people who have attained the national retirement age rather more generously than people who have not and would thefore set the 0% band with a different end point.
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Whether the specific proposals are the best bang for our severely devalued 'buck' I don't know, but clearly the principle of spending on investment, and particularly investment that will lower our oil dependency, is a much better idea than a cut on VAT.
Indeed given the devaluation of the £, and the level of national debt, we would be much better off trying to increase exports than sales at home.
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I heard on the BBC this morning that a barrell of oil has now reached the lowest price it's been for four years.
I'm assuming that we can all look forward to our petrol prices being reduced commensurately then?
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Not actually true - unless the Shepherd's Bush garages accept dollars. Brown's run on the pound means that the sterling price is roughly where it was in early 2007. Mind you, given that most of the price of petrol is tax, it ain't going to make much difference anyway unless Brown decides to reduce petrol taxes.
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#219
So the Beeb are misinformed, then?
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They're talking about the price of oil in dollars, Brent was last ~$45 in January 2005. It's like quoting the price of a bottle of wine in euros - logical for the producer, but all that people in Britain care about is the price in sterling. Back then sterling was over $1.90, rather than under $1.50 as now; a barrel of oil currently costs about £30, a lot more than the £23 it cost in January 2005.
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not that I think Gordy knows what he's doing at all but.... I think the reason behind his VAT cut was two fold, on small items the change wasn't much but on big ticket items it can make a significant impact. He wanted to stimulate spending NOT saving. Part of the reason we are in this pickle is because of people keeping all their spare cash and the knock on effect. if he had raised Tax allowances all we would have done is pay off the mortgage sooner. I don't think he boobed in that last year just the last 10 years, well once he stopped following Ken Clarkes spending plans. Even before we got into recession he was borrowing ever more sums of money. Some people saw it coming but he convinced the electorate that spending within your means was "a cut to public services" which was "bad". The tragedy is that the Tories in order not to sound like a bunch of meanies had to commit to his public spending plans. Had they had the courage of their convictions to stick to sensible spending they would have more credibility and be able to say "I TOLD YOU SO" Can we be surprised that so many people borrowed beyond their means when the man at the top was setting the example.
Beware the PFI , that 30 year debt we ahve been saddled with.
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If the present Government could produce a realistic plan for the future instead of fear and loathing it, no no no it still would not be re-electable.
All I want for Christmas is the Gov. to resign.
Here's hoping for a Merry Christmas.
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222 purplekenny1964
"I think the reason behind his VAT cut was two fold, on small items the change wasn't much but on big ticket items it can make a significant impact."
That might have been his reasoning behind it, but his reasoning/maths was seriously flawed if that's the case.
A £2000 tv would be £42.60 cheaper (assuming the full reduction was passed on). Absolutely nobody on this planet would see that 42quid saving and think that they'll buy the tv because of it.
The proportional aspect of it relates to low as well as high priced items; eg saving 42p on a 20quid radio isn't going to make you buy it. Likewise saving 40quid on a 2grand tv isn't going to make you buy it. Even if you go up to the price of a yacht it wouldn't make a difference when it comes to the "will I buy it" question.
I have no idea why Brown thought it would make a difference to spending habits, and neither does anybody else on the planet (apart from the labour spin merchants and brown, and the bbc, labour's mouthpiece).
Everybody else from all countries (not just the press/public but also all the political leaders) have all openly said that they think that Brown is either mad, unbelievably stupid, or intentionally causing economic destruction, or a combination of those things. I personally think it's a combination of all of those things.
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Sheesh - a link to a Treasury consultation paper in #211 is apparently an "unsuitable link". My apologies for trying to back up my statements with hard facts - says a lot for the kind of discussion that's encouraged here.
Anyway, Google for "Taxation of the foreign profits of companies" and it's the first hit - it's on the Customs website for a consultation started on 21 June 2007. The graph I mentioned is in section 2.8 on p8 (p12 of the PDF) - it's amazing how the foreign ownership of UK companies took off after 1997.
On the VAT front, I've had anecdotal evidence of a couple of people looking to build extensions next year, and the VAT thing was a factor for them. And of course retailers at the moment need every subsidy they can get. But that's not to say that the same amount of cash couldn't have been deployed in way that sparked a greater amount of economic activity than the VAT increase.
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fairlyopenmind at 198
Cui bono?
Such a useful pointer.
Using this, we can easily visualise Parliament as a gigantic conveyor belt, churning out endless laws.
So, who benefits?
Lawyers, solicitors, accountants, judges, the whole raft of people involved in the business of the law and of course, MP's themselves.
It seems to work quite well if you are a person involved in this game.
A local solicitor charged £60 per hour in 1994, today that solicitor charges £205 per hour.
Most of us are probably in the wrong game.
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johnconstable
I came to that conclusion about 20 years ago.
Unfortunately, we'd got a mortgage and had children by then and it was too late to start another career.
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#3 You have my vote too.
#210
Even if they plonked a station on my front garden I wouldn't use it. My car is a more efficient way to get from a-b, more cost effective and produces less CO2 than a Sprinter.
Sure electrifying the whole of the uk might reduce CO2, but on the other hand how much CO2 does a coal fired power station generate?
If your hope is for carbon capture, it will never happen, the only working carbon capture devices can be found in the exhausts of cars!
And who will pay for the billions to do this, in the 90s the estimated cost of fixing the network was 90bn pounds and that was just to fix the network. If you assume to go anywhere near the goal of electrifying the network must surely cost twice as much which in 2008 prices would probably be about 4 times i.e. 360bn pounds.
And if you did manage to convince us car drivers out of our cars who will subsidise your rail network then?
And all for what, trains may produce less CO2 when passengers are strapped to the roof Indian style but what about during the day when your sprinter is doing 10 trips just ferrying a granny and her shopping?
We should be investing in a Hydrogen infrastructure, there is a reason the new electric Mini and Honda clarity are only sold in LA, because the Governator is has invested in a Hydrogen infrastructure.
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Nick:
I think that some of the shovel ready projects are very good things....
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Boost the economy by creating employment is top in my view. Does it really make any difference what project as long as there is a final benefit, lets do all of them, it will be cheaper than the £100's billions given to the banks.
However, anyone on the sideline can say what they want as they are not responsible for the action.
In my opinion any government will promise everything to get into power, then when they are there - nothing.
and as for anyone who claims trains are uneconomical compared to cars. Go back to school learn the very basics of engines and power to weight ratio's, then comment.
If you declare to be an expert, you obviously were not listening when you were there.
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Mr Clegg may tempt the voters with a liberality of shovel-ready schemes but, first, he needs to tell us how he will turn an over-sized, cash-splashing public sector into a fit-for-purpose multi-project procurement and delivery mechanism that can hit start dates and achieve bangs for bucks to budget and date.
An Olympian task.
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Electrify Great Western Main Line? FYI, the most fuel and carbon-efficient method of hauling a train is a single locomotive (and definitely not the diesel multiple unit as presently favoured for non-electrified pasenger stock). The loco is generating only enough power for it's instant requirements, and suffers no losses. When taking into account the heavy losses along the transmission lines from power station to traction motor, a loco is still out in front ahead of electrification which only looks clean at point of use.
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Great idea, build a high speed railway. Get the troops out of Iraq to pay for it. Charge affordable fares like they do on the buses.
OH, how do we get round the 10 year planning, public enquiry, NIMBY problem?? Ah well back to the drawing board.
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Mallorquin at post 233 is quite right. The detail behind that point though is of course that the whole announcement was nothing more than empty spin to look good for a few seconds. Ah, fair takes you back to Mandy's first two incumbencies doesn't it? Could the Beeb please try and scratch beneath the surface of what it is being told, rather than just regurgitating it?
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So the UK government should step in and buy up a large quantity of infrastructure?
The only way to pay for this is to borrow more money.
Whatever infrastructure we want the govt to buy must be paid for by higher taxes.
All the schemes suggested so far are either way too small or too expensive.
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#230
Enlighten us, how heavy is a sprinter and how many passengers does it carry, compared to how heavy a car is and how many passengers does it carry?
Then tell me how much CO2 a train engine produces versus a reasonable car engine, bearing in mind most good compacts now produce less than 100 CO2s.
I'm waiting.
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Mallorquin is right. For every shovel-ready major scheme launched with a fanfare by Unworldly Whitehall (see 231) a time-sapping planning inquiry will surely follow - lots of work for consultants and (of course) lawyers.
Reform is needed before Britain can motor away from this particular recession.
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Climate change guru Lord Stern also agreed with 'shovel ready' approach in interview on Today programme this morning (31.12.08). Government really needs to pull its finger all the way out.
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238: "Government really needs to pull its finger all the way out" says stayingawake.
Sounds like a contradiction of terms, alas. But they could if they really wanted to - remember the huge effort they made to ban foxhunting?
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As this thread is running out of steam, could we have a new one on 'what shovel-ready schemes would you add to Mr Clegg's list to get the UK economy going again?' or similar.
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The only thing we can do with labour in charge is to get the shovels ready to clean up what's currently hitting the fan.
No amount of "shovel" schemes will have a positive effect when the government is intentionally creating a trillion pounds of debt simply because they're too arrogant to admit they've made any mistakes in their economic "policies".
"Don't correct the problems, because then we'd need to admit we made mistakes, just borrow more tax payers' money and throw it at random obscure things that won't help anybody" is the labour line.
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I think it is right to set the big construction companies to the kind of jobs Nick Clegg is suggesting. Smaller housebuilders should be set to the task of creating affordable housing (with securitised mortgages).
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