Intriguing politics
The politics of David Cameron's latest speech on the economy are intriguing. He calls for an enquiry into those whose failure has led to the current economic crisis and he's talking as much of City folk as he is of politicians.
He says that an enquiry is necessary "in order to send the right message about our country's values". He insists that it is a "failure of moral leadership" on behalf of Gordon Brown not to have already done so.
Ever since becoming Tory leader, David Cameron has been nervous about being associated with the politics of the rich and of comfortable success. Remarkably, he has so far managed to avoid that.
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David & Samantha Cameron |
However, the recent alleged scandal about George Osborne on a billionaire's yacht and the photograph of Mr Cameron himself alongside the shamed co-founder of Carphone Warehouse have raised a real danger for the Conservative Party. It is of course one that the Labour Party wish to exploit ruthlessly.
By today, talking about the importance of responsibility and of treating the richest people of our society the same as everyone else, the Conservative leader is not merely arguing for something he clearly believes in but trying to head off a real political danger.
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Oh dear ! Nick, you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel now, trying to find an ulterior motive for Cameron's criticisms of bankers. This is followed by another reference to the " Osborne scandal " what scandal?, was it the one where our business minister spent a holiday on a Russian entrepeneur's yacht while aluminium tariffs were being discussed. What about Brown's claim of an agreement in Europe last week, it didn't include him, is this not news? Sometimes it seems that the " news " you come up with is sanctioned by Downing Street . Sooner or later this will all come home to roost, we will have a change of government and the BBC may well find that acting as propaganda arm of the Labour party may have a price.
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I feel there is a general election coming soon.
Obviously so does David Cameron.
The blatant electioneering by Brown during this financial crisis and his cavorting around India Pakistan and Afganistan over the weekend leaves me totally disgusted.
Don't we have a foreign secretary to do that. And shouldn't tactics against terrorists remain secret?
He's obviously given up on this country and now wants to be seen as another Tony Blair. He needs to coordinate his hand movements first though.
The praying stance in Afganistan was a bad joke under the circumstances.
Anyway when will the election be?
Spring I guess.
Before everything goes to the dogs.
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Nick,
Can you tell me what if anything is happening about the Speaker's Committee set up to look into the police investigation within the House of Commons? Perhaps, instead, you might want to tell me about the state of play with regard to the role that government minsiters have had in leaks to the press of sensitive market information to your colleagues in the media? Or even the extent to which government minsters are implicated in soirees on the yacht(s?) of rich and powerful industrialists. (Remember those pictures of Mandy beside Mittal and others?) Then there is the question of how the rest of the west view Brown's attempts to save the world .... I mean banks.
But then why bother when you can raise questions of the opposition who are at best still several months away from being able to contest an election, never mind win it.
Can I therefore suggest that before you submit another blog topic that raises questions about how the Leader of the opposition might be exploited by Labour, you might want to ask yourself if there is anything else out there in the world of politics that might be of greater significance to the electorate who happen also to pay your wages? Rather than being part of Mandy's spin machine, I would ask that you spend as much, if not more, time being an investigative political journalist.
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Nick, all the Tories need to do is show all the pictures of Labour ministers hobnobbing with the rich and such like.
#Cough Ecclestonthepoisoneddwarf Cough#
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Nick
Your logic seems to be as flawed as ever. So a Tory Law abiding rich guy can't be against rich crooks. Bit like a Labour MP(most of them are rich too) not being tough against working class crooks.
Why don't you just come out and say you perfer NuLabour, then at least people will know how to attack you, rather then your wink wink nudge nudge blogs.
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I'd be happier if David Cameron was offering some solutions. Imagine what the media would do if he started offering advice to Gordon and that advice was seen to be good and implimented. The papers would have a field day and Cameron would take the high ground in this school ground fight. The problem for Cameron here is that the problem is due to Thatcherism and how Labour took on her policies to defeat the more liberal Major. Now I don't really understand what each party stands for and they are defiant on not explaining it to me.
Seriously though, rather than just point and say "Oh Gordon's got it wrong, we'll all lose our jobs" I'd like to see some solutions from Mr Cameron. Ideas such as moving towards a 4 day week would be very welcome to those about to be made redundant or already made redundant. If companies are laying off 1/5 of thier staff in some cases, just move them all to 4 day weeks spread over the 5 days. Workers get an extra day off and no one gets made redundant. Sure, everyone gets paid a bit less, but its better than 1/5 not getting paid at all. 4 days pay just needs the belt to be tightened on or two notches. No days pay and you'll have to sell that belt and maybe the trousers too.
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Politically - I just cannot afthom out why he has done it??????
It strikes me as (a) unnecessary at this specific time (b) a massive political gamble (c) desperate!
I am almost begging to ask....WHAT IS ABOUT TO COME OUT OF THE WOODWORK THAT HE IS TERRIFIED OF???
The timing of this is bizarre....he has actually begun to stem the tide of accusation that he is "do nothing Dave".
He has actually managed,as you rightly point out Nick,to so far shrug off the undeniable link between Banks,Banking,Hedge Funds,Speculators and The Tory Party...
This seems on balance like a MASSIVE POLITCAL OWN GOAL...
I can just imagine Mandy and Campbell now preparing the response...
The links to Big Banks
The donations from Banks and Speculators
The contacts within Hedge Funds
The declared Directorships of the Shadow Cabinet of the Banks/Banking Sector
The continual voting in the Commons against all facets of Industrial Regulation when introduced in the past decade e.g Mortgage and General Insurance and Investments...
I am convinced there is something pretty destructive about to break about either the Party or Individuals fairly close to Cameron - he has seen the need to get in a sharp pre-emptive strike...other than that...its political suicide surely???...
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This was a refreshing and insightful piece until you spoilt it by dwelling at length on recent Tory scandals, complete with a photograph to ram home the point.
Perhaps you could balance this with some New Labour scandals (and throw in a few LibDems ones for good measure). After all, there's a general election just around the corner.
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Hardly subtle, Nick.
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Nick, with all due respect, it's not really that intriguing, is it?
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Nick,
would this be the same scandal & the same yacht that Mr Peter Mandelson was on?
By the way, how are your investigations going as to Mandelson's links with Deripaska regarding EU aluminium tariffs whilst he was EU Commissioner?
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Cameron is only talking common sense. In point of fact, the old Securities and Futures Authority (one of the predecessors to the FSA) produced a paper on Senior Management Responsibility in investment firms and this was carried over into New Labour's Financial Services Authority.
The basic idea is that those who run investment firms need to be held accountable for the business they undertake, and the risks/effects they have on the FSA being able to manage its statutory objectives.
Every Approved Person (which every executive investment Director of an FSA regulated firm need to be) must have an annual competence assessment. Linked to this, on an annual basis they need to be confirmed as being fit and proper to undertake their duties. Have they kept up to date with market practice? How have they managed risks? Do they understand the risks what they do pose to the firm?
One does wonder if the FSA will be asking to see the assessment papers for some of the Directors of Britain's banks. However, it will be rather awkward for the FSA, since every bank will have been providing financial data to the FSA continuously, and every bank will have its own FSA inspectors.
Anyway, as Cameron says, if Doctors are held accountable by the GMC, then what about those who present risks to the financial system.
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"It is of course one that the Labour Party wish to exploit ruthlessly."
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Oh dear, not a single comment moderated yet - but what is the betting that many refer to Nicks use of the photo whilst admitting that Labour want to use it to damage Cameron?
Sometimes I wonder whether it's done simply to antagonise, whilst at other times it looks like repaying the Labour spin masters.
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"It is of course one that the Labour Party wish to exploit ruthlessly."
Mission accomplished then.
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Intriguing politics?
For me the most intriguing thing about politics that I can think of is "how Peter Mandelson does continue to get away with it?"
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Rich crooks, poor crooks, Zen Buddhism offers no answer...
But Zanulabour says "Rich man he may pay off zanulabour overdraft in time for us to have election"
You break the law or you stuff up your job you pay the price; something newlabour seem to have been slow to wake up to in their 'nobody is to blame' culture.
Come in Sharon Shoesmith.
Now come in Ed Balls, Gordon Brown, Jacqui Smith, Gorbals Mick and the rest of the newlabour crony machine.
Call an election.
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Nick,
You know more than you are telling don't you?
You took a bit of flak over Corfugate so you must be pretty confident that Cameron is on the wrong side of something for you to drag it up.
AC and PM must have found some more damaging material for you to trail.
But therein lies the rub for the rest of us.
Just when we really, really need a strong competent opposition to hold to account the ever more damaging Brown, we have a hamstrung lightweight.
Oh well, soon be Christmas, fancy some more dirt stuffing?
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Nick
Who else was on that yacht and how long did he stay on it?
Was it for a cup of tea, overnight or a whole week?
Any idea; are you going to tell us?
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I think democracy has failed us. I for one, have absolutely no faith in any political party in this country or the USA for that matter. They seem completely out of touch with the people they persecute [supposedly represent] and none of them have anything useful to say about any of the crises facing our society. They have nothing to offer in terms of the banking crisis, the credit explosion, crime, immigration, falling education standards, failing morality, the death penalty, the Middle East, etc.
What are these people paid to do? They just churn out the same old failed arguments over and over, and spend their time scoring points off one another.
Time to find a new way perhaps? In an age when millions can readily access internet, can we not have online referendi (?) and major policy suggestions?
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Nick
If you are right about Cameron's speech being intended to combat the effects of the Osborne and Ross episodes, it's been counter-productive don't you think ?
Here we have the BBC political correspondent implying that the reason for the speech is not the issues being raised in it - enquiry/hold to account/ day of reckoning etc and the need for the government to guarantee loans to business - but the wish to head off the danger of his being too closely linked with the 'shamed' and 'allegedly scandal' involved rich.
Did you even bother to consider or analyse the substance of what was said by Cameron ? Or did you just leap directly to what you imagine to be the real reason for the speech ?
I know you clever media chaps can can read between the lines of a one line statement but I would suggest that it is worth looking at what's in the lines before you seek to read between them.
By the way, I find the idea risible that those who hold against Cameron his Burlington Toff, rich background would be in any swayed by this speech.
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That?s right Nick no one in Labour have ever done anything dodgier than Osbourne or been pictured with anyone who later had financial questions to answer.
Nick I know it's hard to focus on information that matters in the BBC but I would have thought the message to currency markets that the Government will not defend the pound will have appeared somewhere on your Radar.
Or the alleged biggest Ponzi scheme in history has just exploded in the US. (Which if you had listened to what Cameron said, is very relevant)
Like Mr Merdel in Little Dorit ?The man of the age? was just throwing more and more people?s money at a position that had failed long ago. Does this remind you of anyone closer to home? Underpants over tight?s
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20 Come on Nick own up....
Caroline Spellman was on the yacht too was'nt she - with her nanny - trying to sort out the secretarial duties for Mr Deripaska?...
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Nick.
Contrary to popular belief, largely brought about by references on comedy shows, sticking the word "alleged" in front of an acquisition offers no legal protection against civil action.
BTW: Instead of banging on about Ozzie Osborne [sic] why don't you try to get the REAL knife crime stats from the Government?
See you in the pub.
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"However, the recent alleged scandal about George Osborne on a billionaire's yacht..."
You just couldn't resist it, could you Nick? You had to get the boot in despite Mandelson's situation being the true scandal and Osborne's situation being a total non-event.
You're just perpetuating the same class war myths that labour tried to peddle in the "toff" campaign. Is that really the kind of reporting that we want from the BBC?
Labour don't care about holding people to account; they'll whitewash anything and everything because it always ends up coming back to them in the end.
Ask yourself why it is that when you try and report the details of a multi-billion dollar fraud (even when you hold technical evidence about who's perpetrating it) to the UK police they won't even let you fill out a form and just tell you to go away, whereas the Americans will fall over themselves asking you to provide as many details as possible.
The uk authorities under labour are too scared to admit any truths, and actively try to stop investigations; everything gets swept under the carpet because doing otherwise would show everyone just how corrupt and negligent they've all been under labour's watch.
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2. It has always been the norm for the Prime Minister of the day to visit UK troops in some part of the World - around Christmas and the New Year...
Blair did it,Major did it,Thatcher did it etc...
And Do nothing Dave has hardly sneaked in and out of "hotspots" unannounced has he....like Iraq,like Afghanisthan, does anyone remember Georgia....!!!!!!!!....
Clearly the visit to India was linked too to Mumbai and possibly economic talks....
Must try harder....and Dave wont be doing any electioneering any time soon surely??????????
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Surely the most intriging politics since Friday is the fallout from the Government's leaking of unapproved knife crime figures - ending with the Home Secretary's apology in the House of Commons.
However for some reason you don't think this is worth blogging about despite all the articles you penned over the Damien Green affair.
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Nick,
I have to agree with kaybraes 1#
please don't start banging the labour drum as many of your other so called neutral colleagues do on behalf of the Labour party.
It seems that the only true neutral journalist out there these days is Jon Snow.
Cameron is speaking the words of millions of hard working taxpayers who are fed up with being taken for a ride by a socialist government that has destroyed the UK.
As a votor I want the people including politicians who have caused this crash accountable for what has happened.
I don't want to see Gordon Brown and Tony Blair enjoying a comfortable lifestyle on big fat pensions while millions face retirement (including myself) with nothing due to their incompetance.
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Unbelievable! You really are a joke...couldn't you think of any other COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT tosh to drag up to highlight your point?
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Dear Nick,
Nice warmly piece about them toffs, which source did it come from?
Hope "the richest people of our society" include any who prop up (Za)Nu(Improved)Labour?
How much is rich now?
Also, will you be asking your (HP)source what is the truth about the latest government figures that now appear to be misleading?
70 police injured but only 12 reportable and, of those, only 4 involving contact with other people???
Xxxx
Keep up the propper-gander
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Nick
We're still waiting for an explanation as to why Lord Mandleson was also on Deripaskas's yacht - and not just for the day, either. Apparently he was staying on it...or perghaps you don't think that's important enough?
Come on BBC - pull your socks up!
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Cameron is quite right to speak out, and I'm a Labour supporter. Associating with this or that bil/millionaire is part of a politicians job and it must be nerve racking to wonder which of them will drop you in it sooner or later. Guilt by association is easy, cheap, and snide, whatever party you support.
Can we please have a little more maturity by HYS subscribers as well as BBC reporters generally? (I single no one out-there are too many cynics).
To those who sneer, name me 1 British politician who has made a corrupt fortune from his/her job in the last 20-30 yrs.
If they are all in it for themselves, they aren't very good at it!
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13 - having worked in Compliance for many years on and off - and being subject to the auspices of the FSA and its predecessors you are 100% factually correct...
What you - and DC - (not trying to link you with him just making a point) however - fial to point out crucially is...
The Tories since 1997 - have voted against or abstained in every single vote in the House of Commons when legislation was proposed to INCREASE regulation and/or to INCREASE the Regulatory powers of the FSA and other bodies - seeking to safeguard and protect customers...and/or individuals..
Source - Hansard...
Now that begs the question why and what the rationale..
In almost all cases the rationale was that over-regulation would have a negative market influence of either UK Banks or Banking - or on the City of London - as a worldwide force in the provision of Financial Services and Banking...
So - why - back to my initial point...
WHY HAS CAMERON OPENED HIMSELF UP TO THE RIDICULE AND HYPOCRACY THAT HE IS NOW ADVOCATING EXACTLY WHAT HE AND HIS PARTY HAVE VOTED AGAINST FOR OVER A DECADE???
Furthermore...
Does this apparent - Damascus moment - indicate we are suddenly going to see the Conservative Party..
- return all donations from this sector
- refuse any further donations from the sector
- cease and terminate all Directorships in this Sector
- untie - all links to Consultants,Consultanties and Funding linked to Hedge Fund and Equity Companies...
IF CAMERON DOES THIS - HE WILL WIN A LANDSLIDE ELECTION VICTORY - and DESERVEDLY SO...
If he does'nt...
He is a hypocrite amongst Hypocrites....
Whilst waiting for the outcome - but scared of holding my breath for too long...
I return to my first point.....just what is he scared of??
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I agree with Nick. It is intriguing that Cameron should take the high moral ground on those who caused the crash - because in doing so he will implicate himself and his party, because it will high-light where most of their funds have come recently. He is adopting this stance as there will never be an enquiry - it would take months to set up, would cost millions to run. It is plain and simple "I have not got a policy to pretend is new, and Mr Brown has all the publicity as he wings around - so I'll make a silly statement about something that will never happen". The shame is that so many are sending in comments that support Cameron. All paid up card holders ??? All tory toffs/toffesses ??
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So, Nick, this is the latest bit of Government spin you can come up with ......pretty pathetic don't you think?
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as a BBC journalist, shouldn't you know the difference between 'enquiry' (i.e. to ask about something) and 'inquiry' (i.e. to investigate something)?
You should go back to school Nick...
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I'm starting to think that the Tories could do worse than to not contest the upcoming election and hand the result to Labour. Let them sort out their own mess. Brown seems to be dumping more and more poison into the chalice deliberately, and it seems likely that the next Tory government will have to make some very unpopular moves in order to sort the whole mess out. Public spending will have to be cut while keeping taxes the same in order to get the massive debt under control that Brown is lumping us with. Brown is clearly hoping that the Tories will make the tough decisions to get the country back on the right track, just in time for Labour to capitalise on those necessary but unpopular decisions and start squandering our wealth again.
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Presumably Cameron is trying to differentiate himself from the pusillanimous approach taken throughout newlabour's reign?
The approach that avoided controversy, never blamed anyone, had created the perfect economy; the approach that was gutless and false and that is everything the public has tired of listening to.
The approach that says it's okay to run up even more debt rather than take a difficult decision about the economy; the approach which remains to it's core spineless and utterly newlabour.
Call an election
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Cameron suggesting an enquiry?
What is the problem with that Mr N.R?
So what if he is pals with the former
Carphone Warehouse co founder.
Was Cameron handing out Honours for
donations?? Is that your smear??
Do you support New Labour?
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See the killing of the Brazilian guy has been
SIDESTEPPED BY THE BBC.
What a surprise.
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23....I wonder if any of the Ponzi Merdel money can be traced in to a British Political Party ???...
now that may explain a few things....
mighten it???
Of course this is 100% pure speculation and guesswork on my part...
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No11 Yellowbelly.
Do you agree with the view that that only a fool would think that a European Trade Commissioner, with a glowing world wide reputation, would not discuss industrial issues with leading protagonists?
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Nick..as you seem to think that this photograph of Cameron is so damaging,perhaps you (or anyone else) could tell me when it was taken,and in what circumstances?
Seems to me that you are suggesting if a political leader has his photo taken with someone who,years later, turns out to have done something wrong;the said political leader should automatically get tarred with the same brush..charged,tried and sentenced.
..So how about some out of Mandelsons holiday album,please?
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I'm constantly amazed at your choice of what to write about, in total agreement with many of the posters on here.
Why is it that you are focussing on the Conservatives' meetings with "dodgy" businessmen (nice photo to lend credence by the way), and completely ignore those meetings that Labour ministers had, sometimes with the same people.
Then you suggest that Cameron's proposal to prosecute these dodgy businessmen is politically dangerous.
Presumably you think that Brown's approach of (as he himself might put it) "doing nothing", and letting them get away with it, is political genius.
No more than I am coming to expect from Labour, the BBC and you Nick.
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Very balanced, Nick. Thanks for giving your views on Clegg's speech.
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Of all the things that are going on... this is what you choose to write about.
For all those who say you have a New Labour bias Nick.... you're not exactly doing a lot to refute it are you?
Cameron isnt in power. Truth be told, unless he sorts his act out he isnt LIKELY to be in power either.
Brown IS, without a clear electoral mandate from either his own party or the electorate.
It is HIM and HIS party and THIER behaviour who a political editor should be asking pertinent questions of. They are directly accountable to the electorate. Cameron isnt!
What happened to "Nation Shall Speak Truth Unto Nation"?
When Greg Dyke left did he take the BBC's backbone with him?
Why is everyone at the BBC so scared of demanding the answers? The only reasons can either be financial, political or idealogical.
I used to think better of the BBC than this. More fool me.
More like: "Nation Shall Speak Mandyspin Unto Lumpen Proletariat."
Disappointing.
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Nick, I thought exactly the same. Why dod Cameron feel the need to talk about corruption in the city when there was plenty of other things to talk about. The deaths of four Royal Marines for instance? Strength of the pound, Knife crime figures, to mention but a few.
And a really interesting point Gordon Brown briefing Parliament about the fiscal package agreed by Europe over the weekend.
Yet George (Gideon) Osbourne is knowhere to be seen. Former employee of a certain Jewish Hedge Fund Manager in New York perhaps?
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Nick
is your application in the post to become a government spin doctor. I would think that they have a complete battalion of them now, all drawing, cushy public pensions. Is that the attraction.
I wonder if any of the political parties have invested their funds in Mardoff? That would be time spent than recycling Labour press releases.
Shame on you.
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Nick
When you write that warts and all book of the New Labour years in power could you please sum up the sleaze ratio of 10 years of in and out Ministers and half truths (sic) compared with the last 10 years of the amateur Tories.
Also you could publish some data on the wealth of some of these socialist politicians so we can evaluate the rhetoric of what they say against what they do.
And then lets see where New Labour can position themselves to avoid been seen in a negative light before trhe next election.
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Can politics and the media coverage please grow up? We have a global crisis, not to mention wars occuring. Why is Mr Cameron stood next to the "shamed" Carphonewarehouse exec worthy of mention, politically or otherwise? There's no story behind it (unlike Osbourne), it's a social event and has nothing to do with anything. Does the photo i have of me stood next to Frank Bruno make me a boxer? I don't think so. The only way we will ever have true debate, and focus on the genuine issues raised is to grow up and focus on those issues, not clutch at pathetic, insignificant straws like children who have yet to learn logic in a playground.
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GreatAndyDudley:
You ever thought of working for the BBC?
If this is the kind of reporting we're going to get, we might as well get it from a known, certifiable source as any other.
Ever fancied being a political journalist?
Political Editor in fact??!!
Judging by the current Haw-Haw-esque incumbent, you certainly seem adequately qualified. Whats stopping you?
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#6
I think you have to listen pretty carefully to hear what the Conservatives and Lib Dems have been suggesting as alternatives to the Brownian solution to our current problems - but other suggestions have been made and the government chooses to ignore them in favour of throwing huge amounts of cash at the downturn in the rather vague hope that it may in some way help.
I would have thought that more targeted spending by the government (as suggested by other parties) would have had a more measurable effect, whereas the cut in VAT is both expensive and its effect unmeasurable. Brownian economics seems to be simply a measure of how much can be spent - it gives the illusion of doing a lot when in fact the money will have been largely wasted, as on other of their pet projects.
I think it is right for Cameron to raise issues as he has done. This government does everythng it can to shirk its responsibility and Brownian economics appears to be like the Titanic, impossible to manouvre when things get tricky, so missing the critical signs of things starting to go wrong - and when things do go wrong it's everybody else'e fault. I think some placing of responsibility is required.
All this current action by the government will not be regarded critically by them, so it must be looked at critically by others, but the result will be the same as Labour listens to no one.
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Do I take it from your line in this piece that the official BBC line is that there should not be any investigation into what happen and if there is any fraud in the actions of the finance industry?
Does the BBC want us to focus on how the Tories are trying to perform a cover up?
You are the Political editor of the BBC aren't you?
So this must be the BBC line?
Will we be seeing the Anti Terrorist Squad raid Cameron's office and house?
Come on Nick what info have you got?
Come on remember,
Who, What, Where, When and Why
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Nick,
"The main thing which makes blogs different from a newspaper column or even TV or radio broadcast is that it is a conversation between the author and the audience. So the success of Newslog will depend on you letting me know what you think about the news, and indeed about what I've written myself."
it's not much of a conversation though is it when you make some assertions which are challenged but there is no response from you, Nick.
I believe that David Ross' problems were a surprise to almost everyone and he has behaved entirely correctly albeit at great cost to himself and his family. One photo of itself doesn't make for a scandal, and you'd need more than this to create one.
Cameron's speech is important and should be treated as such. If the point being made was that Labour will seek to rubbish Cameron's points then surely the story to pursue is why they might want to do so.
So how about a follow up blog post that explores why Labour would not want to seek retribution for the failures of bankers and government appointed watchdogs that have allowed this crisis to develop so far?
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Thanks Nick for my daily dose of Labour propaganda.
Same time tomorrow?
PS You might not want to mention the currency markets. Maybe you can dig out some more Tory family photos instead.
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i thought the BBC and its employees were supposed to be neutral....This blog is the propaganda wing of the labour party and luckily most of the respondents on here recognise it...when are you going to defend yourself against these grave accusations?
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I took this to mean he will be sending the fraud squad to investigate the FSA for their failings, as well as business men who break the law.
As far as the Carphone Warehouse fella is concerned, I'm not sure him taking a private loan against his stock is that bad a thing to do. The bank would have been collateralised and probably would have lent a nominal face value amount, and they would have had plenty to liquidate should the stock fall in value. It's almost sensible lending on the part of the bank - and I'm sure the bank that did this is as culpable as the gentleman in question.
Please investigate if Lord Sainsbury or any of his family have ever borrowed against his stock and if this was reported to the necessary authorities or the stock market. He's Labour so in the interest of fairness and all that!
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Difficult for Cameron. The people responsible for the current crisis are not:- plumbers, engineers,joiners,bus drivers,car makers, seamen, or any other everyday trade or profession.
The guilty are financiers, bankers and speculators. This is exactly the class Cameron comes from. He went to school with them, he dresses like them he speaks like them and they are in his immediate circle of friends. How on earth could we ever believe that someone like this could ever take a balanced view of what needs to be done for the ordinary people of the UK. It's a front, if he wins an election the rich boys will be out again, within a legislative framework which will enable them to continue their self centred abuse of the country and it's long suffering people. Beware the caring Tory, at best he's a mirage to the thirsty in a desert of leadership.
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Seems like Thailand has the right idea:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/3773558/Old-Etonian-becomes-Thailands-new-prime-minister.html
There. not so difficult to elect an Oxbridge educated old Etonian is it?
Especially at times of crisis.
Now call an election please so we can have our own.
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First of all, Nick is or was a Conservative. Chair of the Young Conservatives if i remember correctly. Which make the comments by some on here a bit ridiculous, especially by those who think he has some form of labour agenda
Secondly, as a floating voter, Cameron's speech today came across as a bit desperate and quite a bit more wooly. No practical ideas of any immediate use to the public and no clear definition of their policy on the economy, other than to not punish the rich with an increase in tax. The speech did not show how the conservatives would sort this mess out should they win the next general election (whenever that is)
Thirdly, the comparison of the way the FSA is dealing with potential fraud to the way the US deals with white-collar crime was pure vote winning. Any wrong doing will be uncovered eventually. Changing the British application of the law to make the handing out of judicial sentences more common for this type of crime requires a change of thought from judges.
This will not happen overnight and is not really an immediate issue or cause for concern for the public. Blaming Brown for this, or suggesting that Britain's economic problems are totally down to him, is a bit stupid. Is the Madoff fraud, and the losses suffered by the banks here in the UK his fault as well?
A big mistake appears to be the changing of the governments attitude towards the banks. After promising them money to shore up their balance sheets, they are now being told to pass on interest rate cuts to the public, despite having to pay for already scarce wholesale cash at a higher rate. This is not rescuing the banks, its squeezing them again.
Of course, we are yet to hear what the conservatives would do if they were in a similar position. Let's wait and see.
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Well done Mr Robinson, it's clear that you write whatever the wishes of the political party that would give the BBC the biggest funding. The quality of your contributions explains why I as non-UK individual hardly watch BBC and now prefer CNN.
A few suggestions for a to-do list if you want to seem somewhat less biased:
-Ask Brown why he is blocking an inquiry whether Ed Balls was on the pay roll of a think tank when Ed Balls worked for Brown, as recently imported in the Times?
-Ask Brown why he rubbished Osborne when Osborne recently warned about the collapsing pound, while Brown in 1992 wrote a letter in the Evening Standard about sterling following sterling's ejection from the ERM?
-Ask Brown why he is sending the UK ambassador to complain to the Germans that the Germans have questioned Brown's policy to try and solve a problem of debt-fuelled consumption with debt-fuelled consumption, while in before-mentioned 1992 letter in the Ev. St. Brown said the government should not blame comments from France and Germany for sterling's demise?
-Ask Brown why sterling has now fallen to lower levels than following the ejection from the ERM?
-Ask Brown to introduce a law that would require the government to spread public sector jobs adds across all newspapers and their websites in order to enhance diversity of applicants and prevent the purchase of favourable reporting (you should not fear asking this question Mr Robinson because I think you do not write a column on the Guardian)? A proper reporter would ask the government to publish what it has paid to which newspaper for job adds. This is potentially one of the biggest scandals of all time.
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44 dontneedthegrief
true enough; I'd assume that Gordon Brown once was in the same picture/frame as Mugabe, does that make Brown complicit with Mugabe's reign of terror?!
Hitler was once pictured with pretty much every world leader there was at the time.
As you say, it doesn't really tell you anything other than they happened to be in the same place at the same time once upon a time.
I guess Nick calls that situation sleaze (when it's a tory that is).
I was once pictured with Alex James from Blur, but that doesn't mean I'm a groupie or even a Blur fan, I just happened to be there at the time.
Got any pictures of Gordon Brown with Mugabe handy nick? That'd add some much needed balance.
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I'm just ignoring your latest blog Nick because it is inconsequential. It doesn't necessitate a comment because we can all see that it bears the mark of BBC bias.
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"It is of course one that the Labour Party wish to exploit ruthlessly."
Hmm, wonder who'll help them with that Nick?
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This is truly bizzare -and I dont mean Nick Robinson's blog. What precisely is cameron playing at? What does he believe in? Talk about mixed messages!
The recent financial crisis should bring out the free-marketeers begging for forgiveness as it is so obvious -as it was all those years ago -that the "market" does not work. What Cameron is calling for now is tighter controls on these institutions (although his shadow chancellor believes otherwise) but this hasnt been the Tory doctrine since 1980 has it?
With the very latest news now revealing more private and corporate greed going unchecked, the days of free-market economics are surely over. When the Government talks about the banks passing on interest rate cuts to customers its almost like a peep against a huge tide of outright greed. Theyre not listening Gordon, theyve got their snouts in the trough.
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Following my previous to-do list fir you Mr Robinson, asking Brown the following questions will also help you to shed your bias credentials:
-If Britain is best-placed to face the downturn, why is it that sterling has been falling aganist both the dollar and the euro?
-If it all started in the US, why has the pound fallen 25% against the dollar?
-How did UK banks end up with the weakest balance sheets in Europe at the end of 2006?
-Why did UK banks sell mortgages to over 100% of real estate value?
-Why did Brown run a budget deficit when the economy was growing above trend?
-Why was the cost of housing not reflected in the new inflation index?
-Does it make sense to make banks lend out more money now that unemployment is rising and already in 2007 companies accounting for 25% of borrowing by non-financial companies could not service their debt by operating profits?
-Why hasn't Brown endeavoured to improve insight in the cost of public sector pensions (some actuaries estimate the liability anywhere bewteen 600 billion and a trillion)?
-Is it reasonable that 27% of council tax is being spent on local council pensions?
-Has the change in dividend tax treatment for company pension funds contributed to corporate pension fund deficits and subsequently a dearth of business investment in the UK?
-Did the IMF warn about the UK's borrowing binge and if so what was the government's response?
-If the IMF warned about the UK's borrowing binge, why do we need a new early warning system (the IMF has been warnig the UK since the start of the century)?
-Do you think that means-tested benefits harm productivity at all?
-Why were so many pounds of means-tested tax credits paid out wrongly?
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Gordon t10
Name you one politician who has made a corrupt fortune?
I think I can think of one who on the face of it, whilst he has never been arrested, tried, convicted of anything (then again, neither has Robert Mugabe), is the type of politician who, I personally beleive leaves the most unpleasant of tastes in the mouth, so to speak.
lets put it this way.
A substantial part of His fortune allegedly came from a Belgian Widow as an inheritance.
He has been found by his peers to be untrustworthy, resigning shortly afterwards as Paymaster General. Talk about giving Dracula the keys to the blood bank!
Everything he touches turns to rat excrement... allegedly (allegedly Jaguar Cars, Coventry City Football Club, everybody elses Pensions - apart from the Public Sector - Mandelsons home loan, to name but a few)... it might be nothing to do with him, I'm sure he was perfectly above board. Funny how all of these things went down the tubes rapidly during/after his involvment.
Not to mention a very hush hush offshore trust, called Craigavon (if I recall correctly) which holds most of his wealth.... allegedly. Bet thats one HMRC's Stormtroopers wont be going after, eh?
... and serves as an MP for a run-down, post industrial wasteland in the midlands, from a mansion in Godalming Surrey. Knows how to connect with his constituents, he does.
Allegedly.
Work it out for yourself. I'm not going to name him, I've given you enough clues.
Not that this'll get posted anyway, the mods are bound to snaffle it.
Can't be slating the Dear Leader and his nomenklatura in public, can we??
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Nick,
Is this really the best you can come up with?
You may have missed out on a trip with Gordon Brown; but their is no need to sulk.
This is a story worthy of the "silly season," -during the summer when news is slow.
How many times did your teachers write on your school reports - Can do Better?
This is an absolute load of old tosh and hardly does you credit.
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It is of course one that the Labour Party wish to exploit ruthlessly.
Delete 'Labour party', insert 'BBC'.
More BBC bias. Why on earth are we forced to pay for this drivel?
What a disgrace the BBC has become with their selective reporting and pandering to their favoured political parties.
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Yeah, I kinda figured my post accusing the BBC's journalists of being spineless apparatchiks in all but paid service of ZanuLiebour since the departure of Greg Dyke would get modded.
Quelle flamin' suprise, as the French might say.
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This is double standards, Nick
Why put the shoe in on Cameron, when Meddlesome is just as bad if not worse!
Rothschilds?
Atleast be un-biased, and bring up Labours own skeletons too, in your blog. They all wear the same gravy stained T-shirts!
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David Cameron talking about the economy? Thats almost as funny as his Chancellors lame attempts. Nobody wants the Tories and nobody wants Cameron.
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Currently in the news we have the pound going down the tubes, a whitewash over the arrest of an MP, and labour releasing 'dodgy' - sorry 'early' stats about knifecrime.
And you nick, choose to have another go at the tories.
What do labour have to do for you to look in their direction?
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56 Jonno_79
"Thanks Nick for my daily dose of Labour propaganda.
Same time tomorrow?
PS You might not want to mention the currency markets. Maybe you can dig out some more Tory family photos instead."
Don't mention the exchange rate, the uk recession (sorry, I mean "global downturn"), Menezes, Dr David Kelly, WMD, the "end to boom and bust", the doubling of the 10pct tax rate, the sheer weirdness of the vat reduction, the refusal to have a vote on the EU constitution despite it being promised, the monumental size of government pensions when everyone else is having their pension stolen by Brown, the speaker investigating his own actions, the home office allowing an opposition MP to be terrorised by the police for political reasons, the police storming parliament without even bothering to get a warrant.....(I could go on but there are simply too many things to list which the BBC don't like to talk about)
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I actually find this "prosecute the lot" scheme that Cameron has going on quite distasteful. To the point that I don't actually support him. Oh, what the Tories would do for a more solid leader right now...
It also reveals the pertinent fact that Dave doesnt really understand the mechanics of econmics, less so the mechanics of a crash.
Then again, Grodo has even less of a clue.
Crashes are part and parcel of Capitalism and we've had crashes since the time of the Venetian merchants. Human greed is a much more powerful emotion than circumspection.
Get used to it - it won't be the last time. And there is no viable alternative.
Legislation will try to regulate this but the next bubble will be something that seems quite innocuous at the moment.
Trying to string a few bankers up to the flagpole simply because they followed the herd is jerrymandering of the worst kind.
Bankers all knew this was coming but they still had to fuel the fires because that is what Gordo wanted them to do and if they didnt they'd lose money hand over fist and get kicked out of their jobs. And if they had pre-empted the crash they would effectively have caused it themselves. Or lost a lot of money.
It's a lose-lose situation so they made the best of it while the sun was shining.
There is nothing illegal in boom and bust and there is nothing illegal in making money. Even lots of it. Do Nothing Dave would do well to remember that instead of playing to the gallery promising justice where there is very little to be had.
By all means prosecute those suspected of wrong-doing but I suspect there are very, very few of them. But don't move the golposts for those that were paying by the rules, however distasteful those rules were.
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#34 -
Do we need increased regulation, or increased enforcement?
The FSA's Principles were a perfect creation to capture those who broke the spirit of the rules.
I think we need to get away fronm the idea that light regulation means no regulation. I don't know if you ever read it but the Companies Act 1985 (a Tory Act of Parliament) was a heavy weight piece of work that in many respects rivalled the Sarbanes Oxley Act which appeared much later. In 1992 the Cadbury Committee introduced the City Code on Corporate Governance (which heralded the "comply or explain" approach in relation to the governance of public companies). This was introduced in the Tory years, as were many governance initiatives that followed. The Financial Services and Markets Act of 2000 created the FSA and this led to the disbandment of the Investment Managers Regulatory Organisation and the Securities and Futures Authority. These organisations were by no means lightweight. You might even remember receiving in the post SFA Board Notices indicating the disciplinary action against offenders.
I don't know what has been voted by whom and for what in recent years. But the fact is that the New Labour creation, the FSA has been in charge with Gordon at the helm either in the Treasury or as PM.
Enforcement has been weak. The rules have been there. We don't need any more. There's been no political will to address the debt boom because of political expediency. The eye may even have been on the ball (in fact the risks may well have been seen by New Labour and the FSA but allowed to fester to allow the financial system to remain competitive and thus flush with profits), but the ball was allowed to bounce into the back of our own net.
Would the Tories have behaved any differently? Well, we had IMRO, the PIA and the SFA. We didn't have the FSA in the Tory years. So who knows?
As for your comments on donations etc, I have to say, quite honestly, that when I skim-read your message at #7 I thought you were complaining about Labour. After all, we all know about Labour donors.
Labour has no lessons to give to others on donations. We all know that. I first heard of the prawn cocktail circuit when applied to Labour's new found love-in with the banks in the 1990s. The idea that Labour is funded by the profits of fruit machines in working mens clubs went many many years ago.
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Sorry Nick but, you deserve all the criticims blogged above. No, I don't think you're biased. No, I don't think you're being used and abused. However, I do think you are misjudging the mood of the British people.
As Niall Ferguson's excellent LSE lecture on the Ascent of Money (shown yesterday on BBC Parliament) reinforced, the roots of the current financial crisis are not difficult to trace. Indeed, if those in charge of the western economies had bothered to look at all the relevant financial statistics over the past ten years, they would have seen the disaster coming. Instead, they deluded themselves by staring at the inflation numbers and nothing else. This is not a crisis brought by chance. This is a crisis brought by neglect.
And the biggest culprit? The longest serving finance minister in a major economy, Gordon Brown.
So, Nick. Unless you start holding Brown accountable for his impeachable crimes against the British people and their economy and stop messing with trivia - like who David Cameron stands next to in photos - you will continue to get the abuse.
This is supposed to be the British Broadcasting Company, not the Back Brown Club.
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You must be able to do better than this Nick. Your bias is showing.
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Nick, I agree that his speech about taking "responsibility" for our actions is one of the fundamentals of Conservatism. However, rather than heading "off a real political danger," I believe what he was trying to do was make a distinction between Labour and the Conservatives; that the Tories, and any society they influence, will be around taking responsibility for actions, rather than passing the buck. I believe that reminding people they need to take responsibility for their actions does not go down that well with all. But it does go down well with the core Conservatives and those who believe the credit/banking crisis was nothing to do with them, and it is these people who want those who broke the roof to pay for it (not for those who broke the roof to fix it).
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Hmmm. For all the brickbats, Nick does raise some important points which demand thought.
He says: "He [Cameron] says that an enquiry is necessary "in order to send the right message about our country's values". He insists that it is a "failure of moral leadership" on behalf of Gordon Brown not to have already done so".
What people seem to overlook is that the current amoral climate of greed and self-interest was created by the Tories themselves in the 1980s and Labour, terrified of appearing to be out of touch with this national mood, simply copied their policies.
You see, Cameron could break with this past and return to the old type of conservatism that believed in one nation compassion and common purpose, but to do that means that he is going to have to spell out exactly how he is going to do that. To date, he hasn't done so. Nick is absolutely right to bring this to our attention.
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Nick,
It is a well known fact that a large number of Tory MPs, both front and backbench, have strong ties to the the City. Do you think that Mr Cameron has the bottle to carry out a wide spread cull of those that may have been up to their necks in the stench that is emanating daily from the cesspool? An attack on the Tory banking paymasters would really be intriguing.
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What is "intriguing" is who is pulling your strings Nick?
Your ability to be objective and fair (or not) to all parties is staggering.
You actually put on a comment about Zimbabwe the same day of the "Null points from the Berlin jury". You think you can say that you were being fair by putting a blog on where the government are being criticised but then quickly move the topic on to Zimbabwe and leave it there for 4 days.
No one is saying the Zimbabwe situation is not serious but when there were other topics such as the knife crime statistics, the plight of the pound etc to comment upon, it seems clear as day where your allegiances lie. Quickly divert the discussion from a topic which is possibly anti-Labour to one which is non-political.
The "scandal" about the Osborne story is that you failed (and Peston) to clear up what you started. It won't go away you know.
The more comments you have of being pro NuZanLiebore, the more determined you seem to be to toe the government line.
I'm glad so many people can see through it. The problem is the uneducated (which NuLab are responsible for and need their vote) actually believe you.
We won't have a fairer society until this Animal Farm lot are voted out. Will Napoleon Brown allow the vote though.
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Ref my post @44..
Seems that the photo was taken in 2006.
Well..that's it then..Cameron was clearly involved in Ross' naughty guarantees on his loans.
For those of you that are interested (!!!),I have a photo of me with Nick Faldo and Paul Azinger back in the '80's.I now hold my hand up and admit that we were all fixing the 2008 Ryder Cup result!
;-)
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#1
I'm guessing you didn't read the post.
I think Cameron's motives have been well picked up on by this post and I imagine that DC would be happy about that. Much of Cameron's speech I agree with - I do not agree with his view that a stimulus is not required (just a better one than the wasted opportunity Gordon's was).
Really. You NickRobinson-LabourStasi-anyone-who's-read-The Guardian's a communist conspiracy theorists need to lay off the Port & Brandy's for a week or two...
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Quite frankly I find the Osborne 'scandal' a non-issue compared to the killing of De Menezes, the knife statistics and going further back in time the many irregularities surrounding the decision to go to war in Irak - the Blair government covered itself in the proverbial brown (no pun intended) and nobody will ever be made accountable. What's worse, they decapitated the until then independent BBC to make of it a docile poodle, never as critical as it is understanding with any government policy.
Whilst I've never voted tory, the nauseating history of the labour government may persuade me to do otherwise. And Cameron seems different to the old Tories, a modern man who is departing from the past. I reckon he may have my vote this time.
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# 77 getridofgordonnow
And despite all that, Labours popularity in the polls is increasing!
Are the people of this country thick or what?
i'm quite simply staggered.
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"treating the richest people of our society the same as everyone else"
It is not going to happen ... ever.
The 'rich' are different, very different and they aim to keep it that way.
'Dave' Cameron comes from that background and knows it perfectly well.
So, AFAIC this is just a straightforward piece of political posturing from 'Dave'.
Now, if another 'Dave' ... Davies ... had spoken about this, there would have been some political legitimacy to it, as Davies at least has some (probably by now faint) recall of life outside of a gilded circle.
But as it was Dave Cameron who spoke, then it must be a case of shoot the messenger.
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I'm not a Tory. Right, got that one out of the way first.... but I'm finding it increasingly hard to find any sort of objectivity to the blogs that Nick has been posting on here. It's almost as if he is going out of his way to develop stories that no-one else can see, while at the same time ignoring lots more major stuff.
1. Speakers ( non ) committee.
2. Ed Balls funding issue.
3. Germany breaking ranks with GB over fiscal policy.
4. The creation of ANOTHER body to oversee child protection.
5. Statistics office giving NO 10 a rollocking.
6. Postponment of 2 carriers for the RN.
7. FRES project for army binned after contract awarded, so starting all over again.
Osborne was on a yacht SO WAS MANDELSON. Cameron is pictured with a guy whos actions with his shares were wrong, but hardly illegal.
Lets have some current, relative objectivity to the blog, please
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Surely we are past the age of using toff as a term of abuse. Are we still in the 1930's - I know the economy feels like it sometimes, but really - grow up people and cut out all this 'toff' and 'fatcat' shorthand and have an intelligent debate
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#6!
Nick may not have a Labour agenda, that's true. However I believe that as a journalist he must occasionally feel himself compromised. This means that he feels obliged to give everyone a bit of a kicking, eventhough occasionally the basis for doing so is pretty thin.
Blaming Brown? Why not? He has led the Treasury and is now PM. He is known as an autocrat.
The management writer John Argenti back in the 1980s said that three things would lead to corporate failure:
1. an autocrat in charge
2. over leverage
3. a big project
Each of the above can be applied to the New Labour endeavour since 1997.
As for holding people accountable, the FSA applies its own rules, organises its own disciplinary hearings and levies its own punishments - which can be appealed against. Cameron's point is valid. The FSA must demonstrate that it is investigating th behaviour of those who manage the financial system, and who are generally extremely well rewarded fot it.
I find it ironic that Cameron's point on accountability should be protested against by people who would describe themselves as socialist. The distractions they throw up is puzzling.
As for your comment on Madoff I wonder if any banking institution was negligent in the application of their due diligence procedures before handing over money to Madoff. To suggest that anyone is blaming Brown for Madoff stretches exaggeration beyond reason, tho in the sense they spending money neither of them have, there is a similarity somewhere.
In an earliercomment, the idea that Cameron grew up with bankers and therefore must be one of them is truly absurd. What about those who sit - and have sat - on the Labour bench who attended private schools? Does one think that Diane Abbot's children are going to grow up sympathising with fraudsters? Does Harriet Harman?Hardly!
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Please start asking questions Nick
At least discover the date of the next election, and if you already know please share
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I think the Lib Dems and the Tories should demand a public inquiry. How can the government say nothing needs fixing when they have just doled out a trillion? If something needs fixing then we need to know what went wrong so we know it did get fixed.
So far as I know there is no consensus that it was all simply the sub prime toxic loans that upset the spinning plates.
How much regulation do we need - was it all really the bankers?
Do new standards of risk analysis need to be set and when?
So far as I know we can get more and existing instruments like Credit default Swaps that can knock over the global economy anytime people don't get their sums and analysis right?
The crisis is global but our exposure to the crisis is not. Did we have too many eggs in one basket? How badly did regulation fail?
In the long run, although the current polls don't support what I am suggesting, the truth will come out and it is folly for Brown to think he can spin his way out of this.
There is the worrying thought that he really believes he has saved the world and will sort the Middle East, Afghanistan and Iraq as an encore.
Blair scared me but this is worse!
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My, some people are very sensitive to anything that could be taken as a criticism of Cameron aren't they?
Nick's points were:
1. Cameron has been nervous of attracting criticism about being close to the rich (are you suggesting he hasn't? Really? As an ex-Eton pupil, and a Conservative party member I think it is fair to say he has been)
2. Recent events have led Labour to be able to gain some traction with this criticism and have actively tried to do so and will again in the future(again, fair comment)
3. Cameron attacking rich bankers is a good attempt at painting himself as in the corner of the poor and middle-class against the rich (and to paint Labour as the opposite if they resist calls for an enquiry)
The picture is fair comment (businessman who was a Tory doner, quango appointee and had some influence was busted for breaking FSA rules) - just as the video of Mr Brown "mis-speaking" during PMQs last week was fair comment (surprisingly, you right-wingers were silent about that and weren't moaning about anti-Brown bias. I guess stumbling over words in PMQ is far more serious than engaging businessmen who broke FSA rules as large doners and with influence in the party).
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Accountability.
Just how many Labour MPs have failed to account for donations?
Indeed, how many have been subject to a Police investigation? Even admitting they broke the law, it was just 'not in the public interest' to prosecute.
Some have resigned pending criminal investigations.
Again, one Charity with very close links to Brown and Balls is also under investigation by the Charities Commission for political involvement.
One Lib Dem donator has been found guilty of criminal offences.
Add to that those in the City who being 'regulated' by an organisation not fit for purpose (created by Brown himself) have been bending the rules.
And the BBC drawls up one picture of Cameron with Ross?
Sickening.
I guess you lot know, if the Tories win, they are going to turn the taps off on your little gravy train, the BBC is fighting as much for the status quo as much as Brown is.
A broken, faulty status quo that is edging surely to a broken, improvished Police State spun ad nauseam by a state-owned broadcaster to anaesthetise the masses.
Double-plus good citizen, double-plus good.
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ooh, YOU LITTLE DEVIL. Usual new labour spinning, talk about Osborne but no mention of "the oily one" mandy on the same boat. Sneaky, putting Cameron and "rich people" togethor , seperates "us" from"them" I think you been having lessons from a certain Mr Campbell.Unfortunately, people are beginning to realize that the BBC is not impartial anymore and so statements from its reporters have to be looked at very closely. Are you saying that it,s not good for the people who are at the heart of this economic mess we,re in, to be brought to account . Or is it just a smearing of Mr Cameron? New Labour must be getting desperate.
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I think what we need now is an official office of media bias that would monitor the activities of all outlets.
We need more than anything an informed electorate.
A government getting elected with 25% backing is not viable anymore.
The people who are most to blame are the media they never do any investigative journalism anymore.
They rely on government leaks and spin spoon fed to them.
Why do we not get just the straight line from the parties without analysis? Analysis is starting to get in the way of the truth.
The BBC chooses its own protest groups but never has the rival views.
Then as today effort proves, we have the purposeful spoiler article to block the person?s ideas reaching the public.
The BBC what a moribund organisation you really are.
What happened to you after Hutton?
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Maybe Cameron's statement was "intriguing" for some.
What intrigues me is why Brown has already failed to put in place an enquiry - with teeth - into why senior bankers failed to manage their businesses...
If you run a business, pay yourself millions, then turn around and say "Oh, I didn't know my employees were doing that", you are either stupid or incompetent - so should be sacked without recompense - or you deliberately misled the public - in which case you should be dragged through the courts for fraud.
Sad thing is that this government sets no standard by which we could judge people in the "commercial" world.
I cannot recall such maladministration of public money at any period in my life time.
Just how many of the Ministers who have sprayed our money around with gay abandon have been forced from office, when their half-baked schemes prove expensive, unworkable and wasteful?
That would apply to Brown, who set up so many rediculous "credit" schemes that are a disgrace, stuffed the low-income group by scrapping the 10p tax band and so many other things it's hard to list.
So Cameron says that people should be accountable.
And Nick chooses to include a photo of him with an entrepreneur who messed up. Is it not possible that there are photos of Brown with Richard Branson, who also "screwed up" and had some run ins with MHRC in his early days?
Nick, I thought this was a place for political analysis and comment. If you want to create an agenda for Labour, you should be clear.
I don't want you to create any atmosphere - just try and get at a little truth.
No comment about Jacqui Smith's release of statistics against the advice of the official body?
No reaction to Brown telling the Pakistanis that three quarters of "UK terrorist plots" have links to their country - when he has never stated that in Parliament?
No comment about the detailed effects of the "success" in getting a European response to the credit crisis (when it all looks vague and undecided)?
Come on, Nick. I don't really give a damn who sits in the cockpit. But I would like them to be honest about the flight conditions.
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Of course we have the words of Minister Tessa Jowell on the Daily Politics today...
But, as it turns out, facing a recession deeper than any that we have known, almost certainly, the Olympics is, I mean, it's economic gold at a time of economic need.
So much of a recovery by the end of next year, still thank goodness GB keeps reassuring us that we are uniquely placed to withstand the downturn - my hat!!!
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Having discovered these BBC blogs a few weeks back I have found the constant reference to the blog authors being mouthpieces for the government to be quite puzzling...but a few weeks later it seems (to me anyway) that these blogs are clearly intended to 'big up' the government...and do very little towards actually investigating much of what the government says or does.
The lead articles makes no pretense at all of actually challenging the government...or actually raising uncomfortable (for the government) issues...such as how the energy companies are ripping off households and motorists with complete disregard to the actual price of oil....or the government's pathetic attempts to get them to change their behaviour. Or why I.D. cards are such a good thing despite the UK being about as bankrupt as it's possible to get?...except things will get worse.
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Well it looks like Jeff Randell does not agree with you Nick.
He has just said that he expects a Major financial scandal in the UK next year along the lines of the alleged 50bn USA one currently coming out.
This if true would vindicate what Cameron is pushing for, if it happens will you resign as you have clearly tried to block this today.
We need to be able to trust that the markets are safe places to invest. If it is all allowed to go by then people will lose confidence and won?t invest.
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The cynical would say it is better to appear a victim than one of the gang. The more optimistic would say so what he went to a party. Bit hilarious that socially the banker and business sector are suddenly unwelcome everywhere. Won't last.
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Oh dear me , Nick I thought and I hoped you had become impartial of late but that did not last long. You got reined back in pretty quickly by your Nulabour masters at the BBC.
The BBC is becoming every day more and more a propaganda instrument for Brown and the dodgy Lord. Doing so it is loosing more and more credibilty. You could show a bit of balance by talking about PM and his rusian and indian friends (Well publicized photos are available !!!) but that is Peter for you !!!
By the way where is the Foreign secretary, has he been kicked into touch as Crash Gordon is always there when some credits is to be taken.
Get a grip Nick or I 'll start throwing my size10 shoes to the TV set every time you appear on it.
Ps: I think you are a good chap and a good journalist. I am puzzled why you should behave in such way.
Is somebody leaning on you??
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JohnConstable @ 90
Correcting my own post - I did of course, mean to refer to David Davis - Tory MP for Haltemprice and Howden, and not David Davies - a member of the famous band, the Kinks.
Mind you, MP's and kinks ... sort of goes together, allegedly.
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If Cameron, through todays comments is paving the way for a breaking scandal(as suggested by some comentators above), it is a good way to deal with a crisis,defend by attack!....but I think(no I am NOT Tory) that he is letting the 'untouchables' know in no uncertain terms that they won't get any 'cover' from a Tory government, who will win the next election purely because the electorate, I believe, are not fooled by this Dictatorship propaganda from Brown and Co. and will vote them out!.
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Never mind Cameron and the Tories, what we want to know is why was Yvette Coopers backside on fire when she appeared on Andrew Marr's programme?
http://greenteeth.blog.co.uk/2008/12/14/government-minister-s-arse-spontaneously-combusts-on-television-5220860
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balhamu @96...
"The picture is fair comment (businessman who was a Tory doner, quango appointee and had some influence was busted for breaking FSA rules) - just as the video of Mr Brown "mis-speaking" during PMQs last week was fair comment (surprisingly, you right-wingers were silent about that and weren't moaning about anti-Brown bias. I guess stumbling over words in PMQ is far more serious than engaging businessmen who broke FSA rules as large doners and with influence in the party)."
Whilst I see your point,the comparison with the "We saved the world" clip is wrong.One is photo which could say any one of a zillion things ..the other is a record of what was actually said.
The point is that anyone,including yourself,can be photographed with someone who at a later date may do something wrong...that doesn't mean that you were involved in the wrongdoing,does it?
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Gota laugh aint ya!
Pound through the floor.
Borrowing through the roof.
Economy broke.
House prices to fall another 30 percent.
Government spending at an all time high.
Public sector pay gone bonkers
Pensions for the private sector murdered.
Unelected Quangos costing billions running the country.
NHS trusts buying Bloody Yachts
An MP gets nicked
Mr Speaker on his knees
Government stitch up on the enquiry
Government caught red handed lying about knife crime.
OoooooooH quick look over there, theres David Cameron standing next to a rich toff who lied about his investments.
Move on folks . Nothing what so ever INTRIGUING here, just more public sector quality journalism.
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Mr Robinson, with your blog today you're not confessing that you forgot to report that Labour have returned all donations received from business people?
Don't forget: since 2002, Labour have received 72 million pounds from the unions. If ever there is a clear pointer towards the UK's lagging productivity growth it's the unions sway over Labour, maintaining oldfashioned work practices and near-monopolies in schools, hospitals and rail.
PS I'm waiting for your ambassador to ring my bell as I'm not British and live outside the UK. It seems that ambassadors are being sent out to complain about voiced doubts whether Brown's policy to throw debt after too much debt will work. Well, tea can be served. I'm ready for 9 hours of interrogation - the Green standard!
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Can I just say that anyone on here who has used the phrase 'Do Nothing Cameron/Dave' or similar must be a Labour troll. There's not a chance that anyone who knows anything about politics actually thinks this is a good argument. First of all, because the Conservatives can't actually 'do' anything - they are not in government. And secondly, they have made a number of proposals to tackle the crisis. In fact, if you read the Financial Times this morning there's a letter from important industrialists and financial experts saying that the Conservative approach to loans is what is needed, and will be of more use than anything Brown has done.
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At the 2005 election John Prescott called you a rude name. That should've been taken as a compliment as it means you were doing your job. Now you're giving the impression that you praise all that Gordon Brown does, and you give him benefit of the doubt, but you criticise Cameron unfairly even when like today he comes up with a reasonable suggestion. Or you damn him with faint praise. And how is the incident on a yacht an Osbourne scandal, when the scandal was about an EU Commissioner cavorting with someone who wanted favours off the EU.
Please return to reporting in the manner that you did when you upset Prescott.
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PortcullisGate @ 99
You ask what happened to the BBC after Hutton?
What happened was that the Government pointed out, pretty crudely in my opinion, that the license fee was due for renewal and if the BBC did not 'behave', then expected increases in the fee would not be forthcoming.
He who pays of the piper calls the tune.
The consumer pays the BBC but the Government effectively controls the rate of pay and thereby is able to exert undue influence over the BBC.
Therefore, somehow, the BBC needs to get a better funding model that allows it to be truly independent.
In the meantime, its 'voice' is somewhat neutered.
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IN 2007 the leader of the British Conservative Party gave a passionate and adroit speech in which he outlined his guiding principles ? those which, he said, would underpin Conservative policy and legislation if they come to power. These are some of the statements from that speech:
?Every generation of Conservatives has to make the argument all over again for free enterprise, for freedom, for responsibility, for limited government.?
"I don't believe in an ever larger state doing more and more.?
??this new world of freedom is having huge effects on business and our economy. Big business can now locate anywhere in the world, small businesses can find customers anywhere in the world and Britain has some great advantages in this globalised world. Not least because of the changes we made 15 or 20 years ago.?
"...And I know that business wants to hear from the Conservative Party how we will reduce regulation and reduce taxation to give them more freedom in this new world? and we heard from Alan Duncan how we will introduce regulatory budgets to cut that regulation...?
?[We will] get tax and regulation down for the long term good of our economy and that is the modern Conservative change for this new world of freedom.?
These verbatim quotes reveal beyond any reasonable doubt that the Conservative economic ideology of the Thatcher years is alive and well in the modern Conservative Party ? indeed Cameron says as much in the third of the quotes I have listed above. A year ago Cameron clearly thought that to restate these principles would secure him electoral advantage ? today they look as wrong-headed, shallow, uncaring and irrelevant as it is possible for policy to be.
The cataclysmic global and national financial markets problems of today can be traced back to the implementation of deregulation on both sides of the Atlantic in the Reagan/Thatcher years. In Britain the Thatcher ?Big Bang? accelerated the deregulation of markets and the cumulative effect of these and subsequent deregulation has brought us all into Queer Street. And yet David Cameron and his free market Tory allies want more not less deregulation ? they want the corporate world which has sailed us into today?s financial black hole to be freer not more controlled! It defies belief.
Winston Churchill once famously said "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."We might paraphrase this saying and say that "Capitalism is the worst economic system; except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.? But in doing so we need to acknowledge that unbridled capitalism leads to excess ? be it Victorian industrialists employing children, the Rockefellers creating monopolies ? or the greedy and irresponsible financial magnates of today driving our monetary institutions onto the rocks in pursuit of their own personal advantage.
The events of the last few months have shown undisputedly that what the corporate world needs is not, as Cameron tried to lead us to believe, less regulation but more. He was mistaken and the evidence of his error is all around us. It will be interesting to see if Cameron has the good grace to admit how wrong he was a year ago when he returns to Conference this week. A bit of humility would be welcome
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Great stuff Nick - you continue to be on the ball - but be careful to keep the balance. Cameron seems to have to bend over backwards to convince you he is doing the decent thing, whereas you seem to ignore The Prince of Darkness with his multi-farious dubious connections, they seem to be accepted and not commented any longer! Let alone the rest of the government mob - all of whom have broken traditions, not kept to decent standards of a civilised society, and all heading us towards a police state, step by step. I think you have an amazingly difficult job, but crucial to keep even-handed.
As far as this latest revelation is concerned, we are beginning to see the true extent of the massive financial fraud that has been going on, and for sure the only organisation that is coming out of this better placed than before is Organised Crime. They must be mopping up all the business and consilidating their position, as never before.
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So why didn't Gordon Brown say it?
Why did it have to be said by Cameron?
Only Labour supporters would criticise Cameron wanting to hold fraudsters and others responsible for this financial mess to account.
It should have been said first by Brown.
Difficult for him though when he has encouraged them all over the last eleven years.
As only one of millions of the not so well off who have lost out from this financial fiasco I too would like to see them and GB brought to account.
It had to be said. Pity those who don't like who said it.
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#109 grief
I think the main problem is one was done by Labour (and is fair comment) and one was done by a man and party who are beyond criticism to many.
If I were you (and right-wing) I'd push Cameron harder to explain what he would do in power. Look at the easy ride Blair got in opposition and his wasted 1st term tying his hands with Conservative spending plans, realising that it was difficult to drive their ideas through without a lot of thinking about delivery and realising a lot of political opportunism (e.g. opposing NHS Internal Market and GM Schools in a binary way, rather than subtle critiques) was going to bite them hard once they were in power.
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108 ianrthorpe
I couldn't resist responding to this one.
It wasn't on fire It was just the load of excess hot air she couldn't get out of her mouth
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Why shouldn't we have an enquiry into the failure of regulation in the City?
As a taxpayer who is having to fund billions of pounds of other peoples' debt despite I have been careful to acquire none of my own, I have got a right to know why.
Furthermore why should such a simple request be accompanied by sneering?
It is about time the Tory/Labour game was stopped and our political class got down to work unpicking the mess their dilatory attitudes have caused.
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Nick,
what would have been much more interesting would have been something about the report coming up about the Royal Mail, this could be a real political hot potatoe, privatise or not to privatise? I think this would have been a good topic of debate and discussion on this blog.
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#112 barhumbug
"Anyone who disagrees with me is a ZaNuLaborPF troll and should not be trusted or listened to".
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Yes, indeed fairlyopenmind, Cameron and Osborne have talked down Britain enough!
Enough is Enough!Cameron and Osborne should apologise to parliament and the people for continuing their attack on Britain, the EU and America.
While every nation is locked into the Brown solution, to help everyone in this crisis, the "do nothing" pirates, Cameron and Osborne are trying to undermine the stimulus programme.
Apologise now! we the people demand an apology.
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My initial reaction to Nick's comments was they were a typical BBC reaction to anything said by the Conservatives these days. The umbilical chord between the BBC and NuLabour has been steadily strengthening since Ali and Mandy returned to run the show and this is unquestionably further evidence of that.
Nonetheless, I think it is also fair game for proper political analysis. As has been said, this is not particularly fertile ground for Cameron. He runs the risk of alienating a large number of potential donors, and there is no reason to believe that the electorate at large will be anything other than at least sceptical that a Tory government will be any more successful regulating the City than a NuLabour one (albeit they could hardly do worse).
The real question then is why did Cameron choose to fight his battle on this ground?
I think the answer to that question almost certainly lies in the recent poll ratings of both Cameron/Osborne and Brown/Darling when it comes to the economy (and by extension their respective prospects at the GE, likely to be in March 09). Cameron knows that as a free market Tory he can't support endless bailouts to business that simply ratchets up the national debt further and further and ties future generations into paying off the profligacy for many years to come.
The alternative, however, is to spell out that the market has to be allowed to do what markets do - follow a boom with a bust - and the consequent job losses that are equally unavoidable if you stick to this approach. He is simply not going to convince "hard working families" (that are soon to be "non-working families") that their's is a sacrifice worth making, without also making it absolutely clear that a Tory government will ensure that those that are deemed to be responsible (at least in the eyes of the politicians and the media) will be made to "pay" for their misdemeanours.
The politics is everything in this crisis, and unfortunately, the economics plays a very poor second. Neither the government, nor the Opposition are addressing the problems from anything other than the context of the next election, and regrettably, we will all be paying a much higher price, for much longer, as a consequence.
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Absolutely! there has got to be a public Inquiry into the conservative party.
At Britains time of need, the conservatives have chosen to talk Britain down (unforgivable)
The people deserve to do something about the tory do nothing party,who have clearly failed to back Britain and the world in their time of need.
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How about publishing that picture of Jack Straw stooping to shake Mugabe's hand a couple of years ago? Nick would be spinning this as an example of comradely respect between two (not so) ex-Marxists.
I only read your blogs Nick to confirm my feelings of betrayal by the BBC... and you never disappoint me.
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At 5:55pm on 15 Dec 2008, ianrthorpe wrote:
Never mind Cameron and the Tories, what we want to know is why was Yvette Coopers backside on fire when she appeared on Andrew Marr's programme?
http://greenteeth.blog.co.uk/2008/12/14/government-minister-s-arse-spontaneously-combusts-on-television-5220860
Liar liar, pants are on fire springs to mind!!
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The only 'risk' to the tories over 'oleg' is that the BBC continue to suggest that there is an issue -- while at the same time refusing (for some undeclared reason) to follow up on Mandlesons involvement with oleg and eu-tariffs.
You are the 'risk' Nick - and your poor reporting.
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Well Nick, at least you say "alleged scandal" which is the usual cop-out when journalists don't have any genuine dirt to dish.
We are still waiting for more information about Mandelson's relationship with the same Russian billionaire and the reduced EU tariffs on aluminium.
Some time ago the BBC reported that the Tories seek Mandelson clarity. So where is this clarity and why isn't this followed up?
There are clearly questions that still need to be answered. There may be perfectly acceptable explanations - but at the moment there is a lack of openness.
That's the real scandal!
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118 balhamu..
Fair points.
Just to set the record straight,although I am very critical of Brown and this Government,I am no diehard Tory supporter and will question/criticise Cameron et al when I feel it necessary.
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A perfectly reasonable thing for Cameron to highlight. I have done so myself recently. In confidence to a Govt Minister and a reputable journalist. What I told them remains private. Apart from to the innumerable electronic hackers who invade privacy with impunity.......
We've just heard about a $50bn scam by a 'leading light of Wall Street'. If leading lights of Wall Street organise $50bn scams, then how soon will they become the lagging light in the modern version of Alcatraz?
If the five year sum total of Banking bis pretty much equal to the size of the bail-out by Govt, would you agree that it is reasonable to hypothesise that that also may have represented a £37bn SCAM?
Ultimately, however, what this must come down to is where the line is drawn between PROFITABLE behaviour and unacceptable behaviour. There is often a fine line in reality, I suspect.......
I remember reading a book as a boy called 'The Man from Lisbon', about a Portuguese confidence trickster who swindled Waterlows into printing Escudos, allegedly, but not in actuality, for the Bank of Portugal. In that book was highlighted how a bright person saw incompetence in high society and saw how to get his country out of difficulties. But he couldn't. So he said 'Screw the rules'.
One wonders how easy it will be for politicians and financiers to resist such views in the next decade?
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Oh dear, Nick. You've gone and done it again.
Why is it that whenever Nu Labour what to "exploit ruthlessly" something or other, you seem happy to be a willing - or gullible - mouthpiece?
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I actually think you have this the wrong way round. What Cameron stated, is in America people who have committed faud etc. are held to account. He is wondering why in this country the same is not happening. Knowing how much anger there is in the country about the banks, encouraged may I say by this Government to blame the banks, why has Brown not held an enquiry as to who is to blame. The answer of course is that the Governments failings will come light as well. Therefore it is a very wise political move by Cameron.
Where you bring Osborne into this debate totally bewilders me as most people feel the Mandelson involvment in this particular episode is more important.
My conclusion has to be political bias.
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Labour climb-down over Bank credit guarantee scheme.
The Labour Party today changed their position and adopted the suggestions of the ?Do Nothing Party? and adjusted the fees as the Shadow Chancellor called for a month ago.
Source. Bolton & Co Sky news.
I thought I would report this for balance as you were too busy with important investigations of David Cameron holiday snaps.
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Politricks
Politician Politician
cause a confusion
It is a big pollution
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118 balhamu
Blairs hands tied by Conservatives during first term, etc....
Only by choice, oh a promise to the electorate, yes, and a man to always do what the electorate wanted. Once free of the 'ties' things went well didnt they.
There are plenty of questions to ask DC. But justifying the performance of the Blair/Brown reign is not a terribly sound strategy. The evidence of problems is all around.
I do not argue that some good things happened, eg NHS spend being brought in line with other european countries, the UK cancer treatment figures where previously abysmal, but it is difficult to just step over the Iraqi Afghan mess or Browns Bubble. Both of which appear to have done the world no good at all, let alone the UK. And yes other external forces are and were in play but it is difficult to argue that the UK has not made the matter a great deal worse with policies since 2000. It is because of the scale of the mistakes made by Blair/Brown that I am prepared to at least listen to other parties, at least other than the far right. Please do not issue vast drafts of historical, and probably out of date, data justifying Blair and Brown because I am not interested. They had my support at one time but they have never had my support to do what they have done since 2002. Howcan you ignore history in warfare. How can you ignore the IMF warnings like Brown did and then whinge how angry you are with the banks concealing things, extraordinary how somebody could see it. Its called turning a blind eye when it suits.
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#70 "Name you one politician who has made a corrupt fortune?"
In another galaxy, long ago and far away, there may be a country where certain prominent politicians of all parties seem to get large advances for their memoirs. These from a publisher owned by an international media mogul, known as the "filthy excavator", whose interests they seem to treat favourably.* Predictably, very few punters then want to buy or read the book.
*Even in one case allegedly phoning other international media moguls on their behalf.
Other politicians seem to accept "consultancy fees", or directorships from companies whose activities had something to do with previous ministerial responsibilities.
Other politicians are economical with the truth about their own economic situation when making mortgage applications. It all comes out and they then sell said mortgaged property at a profit in a booming market they have been responsible for not regulating.
Has it happened in Britain here on Earth? Surely not!
I might end this posting, Private Eye like, with a non sequitur like "Mr D Digger is 92." However, I do not wish to invoke the vigilance of the moderators.
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Eton.
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#115
What you forgot to mention is that many of the ideas you noted are the same as those followed by New Labour since 1997.
Who was is who tore a strip off the FSA for over-regulating? Oh yes, that's it: Tony Blair. And who agreed with him? That's right: Gordon.
So, does less regulation mean no regulation? If so, you must be in a world of your own. Having less prescriptive forms of regulation is fine, since we have a pricniples-based framework. Having a regulator that enforces the rules is essential.
Going over the old ground of the Thatcher years has been well trodden on these blogs. Freeing up the markets in the 1980s was essential to get Britain working. If it wasn't for what happened, Gordon could not have credited himself with a boom since 1997. I guess you'd have preferred life under the failed administration of Jim Callaghan. Well, you'd have clearly been in a minority.
So was Gordon's boom really Thatcher's boom? Is Gordon's bust really Thatcher's bust?
Is Henry Ford responsbile for road deaths, or the Romans?
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yes - clearly very feeb;e anaysis. Really, he is just trying to reposition himself in clear opposition to Gordon - to outflank him from left and right. The real issue is why Labour are not being tainted in public opinion polls by their extraordinary (for a left wing patry that is) close association with high finance.
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122 - Not at all. But you'd think that anyone reasonably intelligent would be able to do more than push Gordon Brown's nonsense catchphrase? Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you're not actually capable of thinking for yourself.
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Well done Nick. It is in the public interest to know if someone who is hoping to be Her Majesty's First Minister is cavorting with crooks and thieves. However, it is not as bad as being an active member of the thuggish Bullingdon Club.
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123 DerekBarker "Apologise now! we the people demand an apology."
Speak for yourself mate. I'm not very struck on Boy Dave - he's floundering. But the people I really want an apology from are all the spivs in the city who got us into this mess, plus the government who did nothing to stop it, and then claimed it was all an American problem anyway. I do not like having my intelligence insulted.
As for attacking people for "talking down" Britain, that is the kind of dishonest trick the government of the day always uses against anyone telling an inconvenient truth. Historically, in my recollection it was a ploy most likely to be used by Tory ministers.
This blog is very depressing because too many people, who may have brains but don't use them, spend their time trying to score cheap points which convince no-one except the fanatically converted. The only real point of a blog is to communicate with people. In helps to have your brain engaged first. Otherwise social intercourse becomes social Onanism.
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Speaking as a Zabulab troll, one does have to admire the gall of Eton Dave, one-time arch-advocate of all things free market, deregulated etc.
It's one thing for all the deluded Daily Mail lot on this blog to persistently argue that Brown is the cause of all their woes, because, despite being a dictator like Stalin and Mugabe, he failed to 'control' the free-market in banking. You couldn't make it up, is, I believe what Littlejohn might say. Add to that, the Tebbit clone bloggers' suggested cure for the disease of free market banking... yep, expose it to the free market.
Really, after all those years getting a top education, and fraternising with hedge-fund donors, one would have expected Dave to grasp that global capitalism is not like some garden party to which one doesn't have to invite nasty Nat Rotschild, if he refuses to play by one's rules.
Sorry Dave, there's a bit more to it than having a jolly old enquiry
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#125- Browns pet parrot is back then.
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Professor David 'Danny' Blanchflower has announced that he will not be renewing his term with the Monetary Policy Committee -- if he had not been around, the MPc would not have cut interest rates. DB recognised the telltale signs of the present economic crisis way back in January 2008 and literally fought a pitch battle with a moribund procrastinating MPC led by a 'wait and see' Bank of England Governor, to get interest rates down and kickstart the economy [which Gordon Brown is now doing - albeit better late than never], while Alastair darling and cohorts looked helplessly on -- they even went and hired a top economist from the Indian Government [a relative of the late Subhash Chandra Bose]. Economics is all about analysis, predictions, and above all else political confidence and how strong that political conviction is -- when GB was chancellor his unavailability and brusque good cop / bad cop role made him look invincible -- hence a strong chancellor and we weathered all the storms. Now the MPC which GB himself created has made him more vulnerable than ever before == and with its dithering and pussyfooting has made the Government look economically impotent.
David Cameron should get a parliamentary select committee to actually take this MPC to task and make it more accountable.
Again, both Gb and DC, on a cross parliamentary initiative should push through legislation whereby Private and Govt Pension Funds should be taken out of the hands of the managers and traded in with the bank of England in lieue of some attractive tax free Govt Bond etc, managed entirely by the MPC. And the \government should be forced to reallocate some of its fiscal earnings to start filling up the enormous pensions hole.
Someone should send the Hacker videos to both leaders to re-acqauint themselves of the mess they find themselves in.
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#125 derekbarker
You think something has to be done about the Conservatives because in your opinion, David Cameron talked down Britain (sic) and doesn't happen to support the government at this time....?
So, Derek, as well as chipping away at our liberty, you would have our freedom of speech taken from us as well, would you..?!!
Typical Labour supporter.
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Nick,
How could you report that one claims that one is going to take a very firm stance against those beastly bankers who have wrecked the UK economy, despite the fact that some of these entreprising chaps are among one's closest chums, and really rather good eggs?
You are obviously a Zanulab troll, the BBC is slightly to the left of Pravda, the UK is a police state ruled by Brussels... Mandy, Labour spin, etc. etc.
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# 125 derekbarker
You say: "At Britains time of need, the conservatives have chosen to talk Britain down (unforgivable)"
How do you explain then that Brown 'talking up' Britain hasn't worked?
Massive government borrowing combined with the low interest rates have ensured no confidence in sterling - hence the pound has plummeted to an all time low against the Euro.
Brown has not only hit an iceberg, he just keeps on ramming it!
If backbench Labour MPs are serious about saving the ship, they need to see that it's time for Brown to walk the plank.
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#125 Actually, DerekBarker you are very sinister. You use the kind of arguments Stalin and his henchmen used to justify their purges. Members of my family were executed, so I know what I'm talking about. If you really do typify the Labour Party now, I'm glad I'm no longer a member.
The only other explanation is that you are a secret Tory troll trying to stir up eeven more hatred against the Labour party. If so, there's really no need, they're doing it all by themselves.
As a former Labour branch secretary, branch chairman, and constituency publicity officer during the 1987 election campaign and after, I can tell you that I'm disgusted by what the party has become.
I didn't vote Labour in the last election, and did so holding my nose in the one before that. I bitterly resent the years I wasted.
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At 6:57pm on 15 Dec 2008, derekbarker wrote:
Absolutely! there has got to be a public Inquiry into the conservative party.
At Britains time of need, the conservatives have chosen to talk Britain down (unforgivable)
The people deserve to do something about the tory do nothing party,who have clearly failed to back Britain and the world in their time of need.
"Gordon Brown was scrambling to stamp out election fever last night after senior ministers claimed the recession would be the worst ever.
Tessa Jowell fuelled speculation that the Prime Minister might go for a snap poll in February by issuing a doom-laden forecast for the economy.
She told the BBC the UK is 'facing a recession deeper than any that we have known'
Hours later Alistair Darling echoed the sense of growing gloom by admitting that Britain is likely to be the worst affected by the downturn. He told MPs 'we were bound to be affected more substantially.' "
So, you need to expand your Inquiry into the Cabinet as well . As for do nothing;
"One of Gordon Brown's closest allies last night said the Government would not risk a repeat of Black Wednesday by propping up the plummeting pound.
Yvette Cooper said previous attempts by ministers to underpin sterling's exchange rates had been 'unsuccessful'.
The Chief Secretary to the Treasury spoke out after the pound slipped to below parity with the euro for the first time.
She was also joined by Europe Minister Caroline Flint who said the level of the pound was not a 'first order' economic issue. "
how about Gordon Brown's quote:
"A weak Pound is the sign of a weak economy. A weak economy is the sign of a weak government."
Think we ought to have an Inquiry into this Labour shambles first.
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Nick - your political bias is really sickening.
There are so many news worth items about that bring this government to account.
Items we tax payers should know.
What do you do? Personally trash Cameron.
At least be constructive and pick at the items he's talking about instead of trying to link him to sleeve.
Really Nick - look at Pestons blog - far superior to yours mate! far superior!
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Looks like the moderator has given up and gone home as well... nothing mod'd in nearly 2hrs
Well, thats one way of stifling discontent and debate, innit?
Next they'll be saying that the BBC is the best placed of the blogs to survive the downturn and that the Tories would do nothing to moderate our posts quicker.
Oh and by the way, heres a picture of David Cameron with Ross/Osborne with Deripaska/Any Tory with anyone who might be even remotely suss.
The Brown Broadcasting Collective.... Dontcha just love 'em?
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For balance, how about a prize for the first link to a photo of Gordon Brown with some "shamed" rich chap. Can't be that hard.
(no prize for GB with Mandleson - too easy but then Nick seems to have missed it?)
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Arguing for something he clearly believes in? Pompously and desperately lurching for the moral high ground while under fire is hardly demonstrating some robust, lifelong commitment to a principle now is it Nick. Every word, deed and gesture, every line to take is so self-eveidently self-consciously churned out by the spinners and strategists at Tory central office. The overgrown public schoolboys will never be convincing and could hardly be said to believe in anything except for gaining power, regardless of the cost in terms of human misery and suffering. Taking the gloves off and being measured, constructive and dignified, and waiting until either we are in calmer economic waters (or an official election campaign) would have been the honourable and responsible thing to do. This rabble are fuelling and fanning the mass hysteria, fear and paranoia with scaremongering, misinformation and pessimism, and all for political gain. Sod the ignorant masses - fill them with fear, loathing and insecurity and get em voting Tory again. Oh, and Nick, beggar off back to ITV where you truly belong you lightweight.
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I am intrigued about how I can read a Nick Robinson blog and see blatant spin that is supporting the policies of the Tories, and how someone else can read the same blog and suggest Nick is spinning for Brown and the Labour party. Maybe, I don't give Nick enough credit - But on the basis that he was influential amongst his fellow Tory supporters while at university, I can only assume I am correct - and he is successfully fooling the others.
This Intriguing blog is blatantly, putting a spin on Cameron's current request for "an enquiry into those whose failure has led to the current economic crisis." Firstly, the physiology of such a statement would lead you to believe that those who have failed are recognisable and accountable people, and that their failure can be analysed and measured. This all sounds like a jolly good idea, and for a party trying to get the vote of the common man, a policy that might win votes. However, in reality this enquiry is not possible, as those who have failed cannot be recognised - we are already 16 months into this crisis and nobody is yet accountable - and as the crisis is global it would take a super computer to analyse all of the banking and financial systems in the world to find the real measurable root cause. - Unfortunately, Cameron will achieve his popular vote - but the enquiry will cost millions and achieve an open verdict.
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Nick
Why are you no longer even subtle. I hoped you may have noticed by now that writing such articles results in a lot of not happy people posting on here.
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What lot of non-news. Yesterdays non event. Gee , look at what has gone on with our rulers? I really do not get what your problem is with non events. So Cameron was in the same place as whats his name and was photographed???? We have an economic crisis, the likes of which we have not seen before. You should concentrate on what is actually being delivered by our Gordon. there is a lot of talk and a lot of banter by the labour perty, blowing their own trumpet and not actually doing much. The unemployment figures are growing, businesses are falling apart, reprosessons are mounting, the pound is plummenting, and the debts are growing. How did we get into this? The media has given Gordon an easy ride in pushing the idea that this is some bug we caught.Yes it is, but our defences are non-existant, we are broke. Why.? Gordon squandered it and continues to do so. Harping on about what Cameron would do is an irrelevance , he is an observer and is not in power. What is for sure is that you can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all of the time. Get with the programme, move on, that is all yesterdays news. Why are you keeping that old story going for? This exposes your bias totally.
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123# Derek Barker
While every nation is locked into the Brown solution, to help everyone in this crisis, the "do nothing" pirates, Cameron and Osborne are trying to undermine the stimulus programme.
Apologise now! we the people demand an apology.
Stimulus programme.
You mean the mountain of debt clocked up by this socialist government who will leave us with as much debt as we had after world war II.
Your comments are as bad as some of the biased Pro Labour bbc reporting
Sorry, but Davey & George are spelling out the bleeding obvious.
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#137- very well put indeed.
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Nick,
Wanting an inquiry is all very well but how would Cameron implement any lessons learnt from this as he is against regulation of financial industries?
On your other point, most people don't care who politicians hang out with, they know it'll generally be the rich anyway. Most people are more worried about what they do, and as usual Cameron is big on words and short on works. I can't remember him once saying exactly what he would do were he PM in the situation faced by Britain today, mabye he doesn't know?
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Nick, in this comment about David Camerons speech you seem to be deliberately trying to stir up trouble rather than report on the issues. Why don't you rpove equally into Brown, darling and Mandelson?
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This really is ridiculous... over two hours to moderate a comment.... what on earth is going on??
Might as well go and have a look at Sky.
We are patently wasting our time here trying to achieve anything.
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I watched Dave's presentation today and one of the most impressive things was something he didn't say.
There was no snide reference to "Saviour of the World". Granted there was reference to widely accepted views in various global economies that fiscal stimulus has a part to play and that, sadly, due to the mismangement of the economy by our government, that these policies were dangerous for the UK. The first two questions I saw him answer at the end he did so factually, without reference to notes and without prefacing his answers with pre-prepared spin to dig at Labour. Refreshing.
As to what he did say, what's wrong with a rallying cry for social justice? What's wrong with saying that until we get banks lending to keep business in business, little else is worth looking at?
The loan guarantee scheme seems to address the root of the lending problem. The tax payer doesn't even pay until the loan defaults. The VAT farce is the exact opposite. We lose the 2.5% on every transaction that would have happened anyway with immediate effect. And at a time when retailers are offering 20-50% discounts, what difference can 2.5% make? Given the amount of time and effort this took to implement, you could argue this has been a tax on the very businesses Labour claims to care so much about.
I know you can't trust politicians and all parties have done dubious things in the past. I'm a conservative (small c) and would have been one with a large 'C' but for Tory sleaze. I also didn't believe that you look after No.1 and the rest looks after itself. For years I didn't vote because no politician was worthy of my vote. But at the last election I had become so fed up with Labour lies and spin that I started to look again at politics.
I like to sign up for things. I believe in being self sufficient and I respected Maggie for demanding nothing less from every able person. As a contributor, I can see that if I share my effort with other contributors than the result is better than the sum of the parts. I work for me, I work for my family, my friends, my community, my country. I'd even work for Europe if it had a constitution on a few pages that I could read, understand and believe in. Not only is there NOT "no such things as community", but without a sense of community all effort dissolves into envy and greed.
I want to pull together with my fellow countryman to get us out of this. I don't even care if it takes 20 years just so long as we start now. It can't work if we don't have transparent government. How can we work together if we are manipulated by spin and denied the facts?
Aside: Didn't Mandy lose his seat at the last election? A good sample of the electorate told him to go away and spin no more. And yet our spin junky leader has to create a lord and bring him back into the cabinet. If anybody needs any further evidence of this government's cynicsm and lack of respect for the electorate then look no further.
Call me a sucker, but I think Dave gets it. I know for a fact that Labour don't get it because they are still lying and spinning. I long for change. I ache for change. Please help.
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Dear Nick, I am new to this blog, and even though I find what you have to say interesting, I must say that it would seem that you work for the Labour spinning machine and not for the BBC when it comes to pure unadulterated journalism.
Even though there are questions to be answered by both the main parties, it would seem that Labour have more than the others.
Get back to being investigative and dispense with the party line.
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Brave Souter:
I have two names for you to contemplate.
Robert Maxwell.
Geoffrey Robinson.
You know fine well what the connection is.
You keep on throwing your stones, I'll keep chucking them back. You live in one of the biggest glass houses in the world mate.
This whole Labour government is full of Liars and Thieves.
You lot make me despair. Tell a lie enough times and it becomes the truth. Because Joe Public is too damn thick (thanks to useless education, education, education) to realise it.
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Nick
Most of my postings on your blog and pestons have ended asking what is happening with mandleson/oleg.
Seems I am not the only one wondering why you are refusing to acknowledge there is unfinished business between labour and the russians...
People still remember the details - see? They haven't packed it away as 'the osbourne yacht thing' - it is still the 'unanswered mandleson/yacht thing'.
Go investigate Nick (or - if you already have the info - publish) - go on Nick show that you haven't entirely forgotten why you became a journalist...
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#109 grief
You'd love to downplay the links as "just one photo, Dave being nice to small fry doners". Or "La la la la", to quote a senior Tory politician.
Unfortunately that's misleading - there are strong links between the 2 men.
Iain Dale placed him No 44 in his top 100 influential right wingers in the Telegraph earlier this year
The joint founder of Carphone Warehouse is fast becoming a key Conservative link to the world of business. He is thought to be informally helping Boris Johnson and those around David Cameron also value his input. Mr Ross's partner has organised Tory fundraisers and the Conservative leader has enjoyed foreign football jaunts with the multi-millionaire.
Note the phrase "Key Conservative link to the world of business". Oh dear - these ties seem a little closer than a random photo.
Boris Johnson appointed him to carry out a cost review of the London Olympics He was Boris's appointee to the London Olympic Organising Committee and also on Boris's Olympic Legacy Board
So a good mate to Boris Johnson, "Supermayor" then.
The picture Nick uses first surfaced in Associated Newspapers-owned press (the Daily Mail and the Evening Standard).
The Daily Mail article, which says Ross donated in excess of 140,000 to the Conservatives, draws similarities between Robert Maxwell and Labour pre-1992 and David Ross and the Tories today and cites a number of facts
* he flew David Cameron to Yorkshire and back on his private helicopter
* he paid for the Tory leader's air fare to watch England play football in Germany.
* he loved to donate money - and had his finger in a number of pies, including acting as an official adviser to Boris Johnson on the London Olympics.
The Tory high command will be holding their breath over the next few days in case any more damaging information comes to the surface. They know that the Ross affair has the scope to be very damaging indeed.
The fact that under David Cameron and Shadow Chancellor George Osborne, the Conservatives have an image of the party of extreme wealth.
With hundreds of thousands of people facing the loss of their jobs and even their homes, the Tory connection with fat-cats - and, particularly, with fat-cats involved in questionable activity - has become very dangerous.
The Tories look too much like the party of spivvish City bankers - a profession that has recently taken over from estate agents as the most despised in Britain.
Isn't this essentially what "biased" Nick Robinson is saying in this blog. And did all those complaining in the comments complain like this to the "left-wing" Daily Mail too?
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#136 glenafon
It wasn't a defence of Blair I made - it was a comment that the first term was wasted, and a cautionary tale for those who would hope that Cameron embarks on radical right-wing reforms that they ought to question what he is doing - the Conservative strategy is straight from Phillip Gould's New Labour handbook - big-tent playing to the median voter.
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The cause of The World?s problem is laid at the feet of deregulation which is fair except that the regulators who were to control and monitor during these deregulated times knew not how to control and regulate the deregulated capitalist community that thrived on the deregulation. Had they devised rules such as - standards in accounting policy - proper audit policy and trail ? financial probity and regulated to them we would not need to be so regulated as we are no doubt about to become.
In my opinion we have lived through the most regulated deregulated times imaginable over the last 10 years or so - the tax payers have paid the bills for environmental regulation, financial regulation, tax regulation, waste regulation, credit regulation, legal regulation and God knows how many more regulatory bodies all for our own good. As a poor chap in business that needs to work with (against) all these regulators I know the pain and the cost.
What has it brought upon us?
What are we fed as a reason?
The failure of all of these mighty structures of regulation is laid at a lack of ?resource? to regulate ? we taxpayers should have put MORE resource i.e. money, into the regulatory structure. If only we had known! Do I detect that we have a self fulfilling structure here that will regulate itself up into a very dark hole using all of the taxpayer?s money? What tax payer?s money? We had a business that made a good profit and paid a healthy tax to support the economy ? no longer all because of regulation in a deregulated society.
We need to tell all governments to start again ? lets treat them like the junior minds that they portray ? lock them into dark rooms and tell them not to come out until they have learned not to squabble and have worked out a better plan and not to steal each other?s toys. If they fail to do that in reasonable time and at nil cost to the proletariat then we should storm the Bastille and have a go ourselves.
To come to the crux - to have a political ?analyst? come ?reporter? that joins the crass class that throws petty jibes into the air because he cannot handle the deeper thinking problems of the day is to perpetuate and pander to the juvenile circus we have in control at the moment ? perhaps we are discovering a new way to a gong now that straight payment is out ? a ?Lick for Honours? campaign ? ?Brownnose for Baronetcy? structure - I think this needs investigating and a regulator appointed post haste!
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#123 derekbarker wrote:
"Yes, indeed fairlyopenmind, Cameron and Osborne have talked down Britain enough!
... Cameron and Osborne should apologise to parliament and the people for continuing their attack on Britain, the EU and America.
While every nation is locked into the Brown solution, to help everyone in this crisis, the "do nothing" pirates, Cameron and Osborne are trying to undermine the stimulus programme."
Come on Derek.
Brown talked up a bag of wind - a credit-based, unsustainable economic situation as though he had overcome the gravity of finance.
Cameron, Cable and others have been trying to talk about reality. Is that wrong?
If I prick your balloon, would I be at fault if it turns out to be simply full of wind?
"Every nation is locked into Brown's solution?"
Can you provide a list of more than three? And are they all following "the Brown solution" in its detail (whatever that is)?
The EU certainly isn't. The USA certainly isn't. France will - as always - do what it thinks is what is right for itself.
Northern Rock has behaved almost exactly as it would have done had it been placed in administration, with some government guarantees. It's liquidating positions. It's not offering real breaks to borrowers (i.e. it is not passing on any BoE interest reductions).
Brown says he will "rescue the banks" while taking financial positions requiring punitive interest for that money. Then says they should revert to lending as they did before.
The man's an idiot.
G.K.Chesterton's Father Brown asked "Where would you hide a leaf?". Answer was "In a forest".
Brown has dragged the blanket of "US origin global credit failure" to hide the fact that we - he - had created a completely unsustainable economy.
He sounds sincere. I'm sure he believes in a lot of good things. Guess he's quite intellectual.
There are plenty of people servi9ng jail-terms who match that profile.
That's why I didn't like it when Charles E Something suggested that he, Gordon and I shared a personality type.
Reality is pretty harsh to deal with. Brown wouldn't recognise it if it bit his backside.
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I see that you too, Nick, are joining the ranks of those who confuse 'on the part of' with 'on behalf of'.
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Surprising how the Tory undead come out of the woodwork, Nick, as soon as you even hint that David Cameron and the party may have an issue or two to face. Suddenly you're a loony leftie apparently.
Quite how your latest Blog entry could be construed as being anti-Tory is baffling to me. Its simply a not very interesting observation.
The years (literally) spent by yourself and others in the BBC Newsroom digging away at ?Blair the liar? or endlessly regurgitating the Blair - Brown spat story seem to have passed entirely unnoticed by ?Outraged of Mayfair? and other contributors to this to this page.
Stick to your guns Nick. Don?t be intimidated by this lot if you decide to have a go at the Tories now and again.
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To the Labour Liars' apologists and appeasers....
You seem to be making a big deal of making an assumption of a natural link between the financial services sector and the conservatives.... no less relevant than the connection between Labour and the Unions - how did you all feel about Blair's abandoning of Clause 4 just to get elected?
Doesnt that strike you as being absolutely no different?
No. Course it doesnt. Silly me. You lot just keep on lying, lying, lying, lying, lying, lying, lying, lying, lying, lying, lying, lying, lying, lying, lying, lying, lying, lying, lying, lying, lying, lying, lying, lying, lying, lying, lying.
Makes no difference in the end does it? Brown is still in No 10 and the ship is still sinking. So long as their snouts are in the trough... it doesnt matter. None of it does.
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"75. At 4:49pm on 15 Dec 2008, FuturePMmichael wrote:
David Cameron talking about the economy? Thats almost as funny as his Chancellors lame attempts. Nobody wants the Tories and nobody wants Cameron. "
I hope that you're not a future PM because you clearly can't read a blog, even one that you've posted to.
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It's interesting to go down the thread in one fell swoop. I noticed that today the Troll Triumverate of GreatAndyDudley, Balhamu and derekbarker appeared in single file, one after the other, no overlap.
Nobody should doubt that these people are working from a Labour-funded spin-factory. The entire content of their postings is devalued accordingly. My only question is
was it just the one PC working today?
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I'm glad everyone seems to be ignoring Munich. A rather pale imitation of John Prescott or perhaps a Conservative double agent atempting to show Labour in a bad light. He surely can't be a serious proposition!
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Intriguing government
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article5348068.ece
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Yes very Intriguing indeed.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7784606.stm
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The gloves seem to be off and the class envy approach appears to be enjoying a resurgence. The old Labour Party is eventually revealing its true colours once more! That can only spell its death knell.
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By the way, we are still waiting for
GreatAndyDudley's apology for, and retraction of, his astonishing smear of Damien Green, from late last week
and
derekbarker's explanation of how the cut in VAT is bringing down the price of groceries, from a couple of weeks ago.
I guess I'm going to have to wait on those two, but I'm going to keep on asking.
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Nick, was the photograph of Cameron with Mr Ross supposed to make a point?
Trawling through the archives to find embarrassing pictures can be great fun
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3695678.stm
No one is immune!
http://timesonline.typepad.com/comment/2008/02/i-happen-to-fin.html
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I've got it by jove
Cameron has invested a couple of million into Bernard Madoff's little scam, along with his chum Gideon Osbourne.
No wonder he is looking a little pale how can he possibly be entrusted to look after the UK's economy if this is true.
FANTASTIC The rich always let greed and avarice over take them
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Well! "the arc of prosperity" young Eton Dave, wants to carry out a witch hunt against his favourite conservative donors,
the spivs' and fat cat bankers.
Aye right' jeez! while the said government restores liquidity and confidence.
Young Eton Dave wants to play at "hang em' high"
When will the conservative unionist party stop talking Britain down.
Look, if you want a policy, then just ask!
It's getting a bit Warren Mitchell for Alf Garnetts like..........................Sashaclarkson?
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Gordon Brown has less than 6 months of tenure left and he knows it.
Things will be so bad in 2009 that if he doesn't face a vote of no confidence by the summer I shall be very suprised.
He may decide (or be forced) to bring about an election before then, so he can say he was voted out (it looks better on the CV).
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Funny thing.
BBC made quite a thing about Brown having asked Indian and Pakistani governments to allow UK Police to interrogate suspects in their territory.
The impression was that he had gained acceptance.
But the Pakistanis state they will do things according to their legal procedures.
Is that unreasonable? Not really. I wouldn't like too many foreign police forces to be allowed in to interfere with UK jurisdiction.
But it tends to illustrate the "grab a headline" approach of this corrupt and out-of-touch administration.
Announce statistics? Yeah, fine. Did anyone check them? Well, not yet...
Say we've fixed the crisis? Why not. Has it happened? Well, no - but don't forget those nasty Americans.
You mean the ones we gave the false intelligence to, which helped them commit to a doubtful war against Iraq?
Yeah. They have no sense, do they? And, sadly, nor did we. Blair and his crew (including Brown) accepted a bunch of amateur crap and called it intelligence. Sold it in Parliament. Never apologised for including a student's thesis as a significant contribution. Never accepted that the key witness on the existence of WMD was suspect from the start - and his "evidence" was discounted by intelligence society.
What happened to the head of intelligence? Got promoted, of course.
Bunch of cowboy builders would have left something for people to look at. All we have is the rapidly fading illusion of "Prudence" and "Economic competence" and a "Moral" position.
Tell that to the poorer people who've lost a tax break. Tell it to private pensioners, whose funds have been robbed by a man who doesn't understand the market.
Don't much like politicians. But I like those who at least try to tell the truth. And those who keep government spending under a little bit of control.
Goodness knows what future historians will make of this bunch of incompetents.
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Fubar_Saunders@165
"This really is ridiculous... over two hours to moderate a comment.... what on earth is going on??"
Maybe they lost conciousness reading this pile of mostly Astroturfing drivel. No "Real person" cares this much about such a trivial story. So Dave wants to reign in the evil capitalists eh? What a joke.
"We are patently wasting our time here trying to achieve anything."
Yes you are! Bye!
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Ah, fairlyopenmind, it would seem that a fare number have the bluetongue disease.
Shame really! but hey! the tories have a history of not understanding economics.
Thatcher deregulated the banks in 1986
boom and bust, high interest rates and GDP rate of 43% and thats without a world down-turn?
Through out the years, there has always been those who have contested, the priviledged back-ground politicians and whether they truely understand hard-times
and poverty.
Again young Cameron has lite up the runway for those theories to be contested again.
Any other opposition leader would never have locked them self down, in such a crisis.
Young Cameron, the novice act, has hide from this crisis and choose to talk Britain down, rather than support the effort.
I guess the priviledged life is NO spring board for leadership and understanding.
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#178 jrperry
To entertain your conspiracy theory - where is this event you talk about?
I can see I've posted next to derekbarker today.
But I've also posted next to therealtruth - not a poster known for their left-of-centre views.
The plot thickens. Perhaps he's trying to destroy you from the inside?
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Come on Nick you can do far better than just being part of the government properganda unit at the BBC by writing this tripe, try balancing it out with what Lord dodgy Mandelson was doing on that yacht with Osbourne or better still sniff out the truth as to what has been said behind the scenes by governemnt to the EU president as we punters watch our economy do a slow motion car crash off a cliff under prudent no bust Brown
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you could have blogged about the lack of brown wanting to talk about why the FSA didnt use its powers to refinance banks before they borrowed yet more money they didnt have?
how about blogging about how the banking system has been propped up and in effect, had its debts paid off so it breaks even, which is the only thing that stopped the entire system from collapse, rather than the "recapitalisation" of banks that brown says he has done - you could follow this up by pointing out that the banks do not have the money to lend anyone as they are deep trouble?
what about a blog questioning why brown is happy to see sterling collapse as he is doing nothing about it?
if what brown says is true regarding the UK economy, then why do the money markets around the world disagree with him so much that they are pulling out and not investing in sterling?
how about some more information on our german neighbours, who can clearly see that their genuine prudence will have to pay for this europe wide stimulus?
instead the best you can do is make suggestive comments about why the conservatives gave a speech?
hardly accurate journalism is it!
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fairlyopenmind,
The only one blowing bubbles here, is young naive Eton Dave.
Christ! when 15 leading member states all agree with the Brown plan and the stimulus injections.(160Bn)
Young Osborne goes against the tide and supports one german national socialist minister (pop! goes the balloon)
You see! the C and O of the conservative party are embroidered in poltical trench-war!
Unable to comprehend the crisis, they just illuminate the dark areas of spin.
Jeez! when the new leader of the free world
(Obama) says Cameron is LIGHTWEIGHT and lacks the vision to commit to the stimulus plan that America and EUROPE have under-taking. Does it not worry you?
I suppose the German up -lift and stimulus of their banks (480Bn euros) has slipped your mind?
On manufacturing bases, Germany has and will have the greater GDP rate, come the recovery.
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Hey Derek I haven't had a reply to #152 yet?
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Labour was elected 11 years ago and Gordon Brown has been singlehandedly running the economy ever since.
Now the economy is in tatters and we can see just how badly the UK was prepared for this downturn, apparently it's all the fault of the Tories!!!!
When will the Labour party wake up?
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Dear Nick,
News flash, army pensioners overpaid by thousands, letters demanding repayment sent out.
What is the spin from your (HP)source?
Xxxx
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Its quite encouraging actually. Has DC been listening to the comments on these blogs ?
But what I'd like to hear, is how they're going avoid faliing under the influence of the rich and famous etc, once they're elected, safely ensconced in power and essentially unnacountable to the electorate for another five years...
That's really where the problem lies, what you do once elected. Witness Labours problems with various millionaires etc, over the years...
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The rump of voters who take their annual two week holidays in Malia, Ibiza, Fueingorola, Benidorm etc. to alleviate the drudgery of their daily jobs if they still have one ain't going to be too pleased by the tumbling pound. On the other hand there'll be fewer stories of binge drinking and hooligan shennanigans in The Press!
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We do need to get the responsibility, leadership and regulation issues sorted out permanently and soon, because the Christmas no 1 this year is (or perhaps should be),
Well here it is,
Global crisis,
everybody's being done...
What about our future, guys
We're sorry but there's none... !
Is the any light at the end of the tunnel at the moment, or is there only something that rhymes with "light" in store for 2009 ?
Christmas is supposed to be all about hope and optimism for the future, isn't it ?
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#194:
Germany however exports more than it imports and has a better command of English. It is better placed to deal with the fiscal adjustment as a financial expert on Newsnight remarked the other night. If Eton Dave is meant to be a derogatory term kindly explain why. Would you rather he had his schooling at Hackney Comp? Harriet Harman and many of her colleagues didn't exactly attend shabby schools! This idea that all Conservative MP's were born with silver spoons in their mouths emerged from the mouth of a Labour back bencher last week and is corny, outdated and more suited to has been class warriors such as John Prescott. Address the arguments not the personalities.
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'Young Cameron, the novice act, has hide from this crisis and choose to talk Britain down, rather than support the effort.'
This is is just arrant nonsense! It doesn't even make grammatical sense.
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Nick
Contrary to some others, I don't think this is an unreasonable post at all.
More importantly, I think Cameron is right to call for an enquiry and it should go without saying that if there have been white collars crimes committed, those involved must be brought before the law like anyone else.
Speaking on enquiries, why can't we also have a public enquiry into Iraq and Afganistan? Kids - our kids - are being killed day in, day out over there. But does our government believe this merits an enquiry? No. This sort of callous politics by people who've never heard the bullets whipping past makes me sick.
On a final enquiry note: looks like the Green charges are to be dropped. Let's see where the related enquires get us. Heads must role at all levels here. This whole affair was an utter disgrace.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
A plan to save 51 Million costs 87 Million to implement.
INTRIGUING GOVERNMENT INDEED
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7784868.stm
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#175 rucreos
Make up your mind - you claim that the article is not having a go at the Conservatives, and then you say at the end that carry on having a go at the Tories now and again. Which is it?
In any event, you seem to have misread the majority of the posts. They are not saying that Nick is being anti-Tory. They are saying that there is little or no reason for a post of this type when there are serious issues that the government needs to be called to account for. In my own defence, I would even settle for a bit of balance from Nick (remember Osborne wasn't the EU commissioner and now member of the government on that yacht, nor is he now a member of the House of Lords).
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193#
Therein lies your problem mate.
You've got the BBC in your pocket, that much is plainly evident; you might see it all as Tory astroturfing, but you would, wouldnt you?
If I want to upbraid the moderators I will. I pay my licence fee, I use the services the BBC offers. If they dont want us to contribute then shut the blogs down and have done with it. If you run a moderated blog, then for heavens sake do it properly, dont get the sub-minimum wage illegals in from 6pm onwards to tick the boxes. Tell us we're going to be waiting 2.5 hours before we see anything posted.
I mean, how hard can it be?
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balhamu @ 170..
Sorry..couldn't be bothered to wait for the mods last night..so a belated reponse.
I take all your points,but think that you're missing the key element in my argument.
I am not saying the guy doesn't have Tory connections .I merely say that just because Cameron has his photo taken with Ross 2 years ago,it does not implicate Cameron in Ross' later wrongdoings.Do you agree with that statement or not?
It's simple..Yes or No?
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I hadn't realised that balhamu and derekbarber were part of the work shy brigade who only get going on this post later in the day when the benefits offcier calls.
That means a whole morning's peaceful blogging pointing out the flaws in their argument.
Firstly; it's not one party in Germany that opposes Gordon Brown's spendaholic answer to the recession; it's all members of the Grand Coalition that oppose him.
Secondly, we've had scant explanation for the cowardly fiscal package that spends its way out of trouble while someone else pays later. Why aren't public sector pensions being cut rather than overpaid? Why are services being cut as we have far too many public sector diversity officers already? Why is the publioc sector not being held to account for it's eleven yaers of overspending. And worse, why is the answer to propose public works when there are already 121 construction companies on trial for fraudulent PFI projects?
This government couldn't manage its way out of a paper bag yet it's proposing the biggest public spending splurge ever.
Call an election.
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Nick
The verbal presentation of this on yesterday's PM programme sounded even worse than the way in which it reads on this blog. It seems that all too often the BBC incorporates Labour press releases into news headlines and commentators' reports.
And to balance some of the constant gibes about the Conservatives' past links with Eton could we have some about the past links of some senior Labour politicians with the hard left?
Also, the following would seem to offer the possibility of a story for the BBC to investigate. Last week Labour released some unchecked statistics that were purported to show knife crime was dropping. Yesterday's edition of the Nottingham Evening Post reported that the number of people with stab wounds attending one of the city's main hospitals is on course to rise by almost 20% in a year. The Post's report goes on to say: "knife crime campaigners fear the rising figures do not tally with police claims of falling knife crime".
On the face of this there appears, once again, to be a massive gap between Labour's spin and reality. Isn't that something the BBC should be investigating?
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The whole debacle we are in is as a result Government increasing borrowing in order to throw money into the bottomless pit-namely the public sector.This strategy is simply not sustainable.
Government are going to have to start making really tough decisions on the management of the public purse and make a commitment,together with an auditable plan,to reduce substantially the cost of running the Government and public sector.
That what we have to do in the private sector in tough time or we go broke. What's good for the goose should be good for the gander.
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Nick why don't you just join the labour party and stop getting paid with the peoples license fee?
How dare you sit there and act as some sort of mouthpiece for the labour party under the guise of impartiality.
You are a disagrace to the BBC and journalism as a whole. You should be sacked.
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178/183 Re J Perry - may I politiely make the following factual comments...
1. more of my postings actually follow flamepatricia than those you refer to - since she has spoken of her knowledge and closeness to Cameron and his friends does this make me an employee of CHQ?..
2. Factually I have never been an employee or or member of the Labour Party - cant in all honesty say the same about the Conservative Party - of whom I was once a member! (ps - before you say it - that does not make me Nick Robinson!)..
3. I will make no apology for any comment or statement I have made about the Damian Green affair - which as it passed moderation must have been deemed to be fair and equal in terms of the ongoing debate....if Mr Green and Mr Galley are cleared and exonerated from any wrong-doing following the ongoing enquiry into the matter,I will be happy to apologise - as I trust will you - should the enquiry find anything underhand was involved..
Just because someone makes a comment that cannot immediately be deemed to be anti nulabour - does not make me or anyone else a troll...
Indeed you may like to look at the Zimbabwe blog - where some of my heartfelt postings could be construed as too right wing for liberal dave....or do nothing dave as the trolls would apparently call him??...
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This reminds me of a TV programme where the Tory Leader talked about how he, like many people, is a father, a family man who has expereince of raising children.
If being productive and having a normal family are the only attractive attributes that make a good leadership today, then the Tory's future must be in the past.
Maybe it is time for David Cameron to stop establish affected liaison with ordinary people who are not as naive as he would like to think!
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Guys, you might want to have a look at Peston's latest...
about how the Treasury have extended the CGS from 3 to 5 years and reduced the rates the banks will pay back, effectively turning the taxpayer into the new Wholesale Credit Markets and how the announcement was snuck out by a junior Treasury minister in a written answer. This is, says Peston a major shift, but one that is being done in a whisper.
He says "there is still a contradiction between Minister's rhetoric about the need for banks to cut interest rates.... and their actions"
Ye Gods..... a mere BBC Journalist questioning the wisdom of the Dear Leader???
Send in the Met's finest!!!
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#89
# 77 getridofgordonnow
And despite all that, Labours popularity in the polls is increasing!
Are the people of this country thick or what?
i'm quite simply staggered.
No need to be staggered.
A lot of folk believe what they read in the press and hear on the BBC - so NuLab's ratings should not be a surprise.
That will be my only comment on this blog. It's not worthy of my time.
Cheerio
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179 Siilian
'I'm glad everyone seems to be ignoring Munich. A rather pale imitation of John Prescott or perhaps a Conservative double agent atempting to show Labour in a bad light. He surely can't be a serious proposition!'
At last one got one response.
201 Sicilian
I did try to give an explanation of 'Eton Dave' (204) but clearly it was unpopular with someone at the BBC, Pravda or not.
Tory troll blah blah, class war blah blah.
Anyway, I just love this one of Eton Dave's 'plans'.
You owe you position to support from the free-market financial gurus who fund your party.
You know that the UK voting public, and indeed most other even slightly informed people all over the world, blame these banking entrepreneurs for making a slight boo boo on the economic front, to wit, they've bankrupted the whole western world.
Now he wants to sort out the bad eggs from the good, but unfortunately that would mean imprisoning a good number of Tory donors, and many other supporters who might not actually donate (shame) because they're eg Swiss or Cayman Isles citizens.
So, a jolly old enquiry (which would find that no-one had done much wrong, apart from being incredibly naive) is the perfect 'do nothing to harm any of us' plan for ED.
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Let me get this right - is Cameron suggesting an inquiry into things, and letting the fraud squad go wherever is required - FSA, Treasury, Number 10?
Oooooh anti-terror police raids?
Nice one!
BTW - do you fancy writing a piece about Tessa Jowell talking down the economy? Or are her remarkable admissions yesterday too much bad news for your commentary?
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onjournalism @215...
Can't even be bothered to quote your meaningless,unintelligible tripe.
What has it got to do with the discussion subject ?
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Nick,
Of course the other increasingly obvious trait about Cameron is that he is being driven,almost paniced,into making these types of speeches,as the "do-nothing" mantra begins to stick...
Word has it that Cameron is about to launch a speech a day over the next week or so,up to Christmas,mainly to deflect criticism,that he has nothing to say.
The danger in that,is the more he says that is not specifically relevant,the more he simply CLOUDS THE MESSAGE...
In 1992 Labour was ahead in the Polls,the Tories had taken us in to recession and John Major was at least as unpopular as Brown is now......Major won that election because Neil Kinnock lost it....
Kinnock actually had far more political experience than Cameron,he connected with more people than Cameron can and has connected with,Kinnock had a policy message far deeper than Cameron has yet produced BUT HE LOST...
The simple reason he lost was (a) he appeared triumphalist and (b) he spoke too much - the message - went from being clear and concise and all about change - to woffle and confusion....
Cameron,with inane and pointless speeches-like yesterday-like he is increasingly making - is falling in to the same trap...
Paradoxically,in late summer and early Autumn - when many criticised Cameron for almost disappearing from politics at one point nearly 3 weeks between speeches - his stock rose - to a lead of around 20% plus with several polls....
The other facet that is driving the Tories is the irrational fear that Labour will call an early election - the Tories are'nt ready,they cant fund it,they cant come up with substantive policies and a sharp 3 week campaign would show them to be vaccuous on many key issues......any policy couldnot be funded in time and would be blown apart...
Of course their nemesis is behind all of this....talk of elections,the do-nothing mantra - the nemesis they have created - the man they fear most - irrationally in my opinion but The Dark Lord's return has turned the Tory Party machine - so strong and powerful over the past 18 months into a shambolic quivering wreck!....
Its becoming a self fulfilling nightmare for them-the hilarious think is....they created the imaginary monster,they are unnecessarily obsessed with him.....they see him in every dark corner...
If it were'nt so serious it would be pathetic...
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
According to the conclusions of the EU Council meeting (December 11/12), and I quote, measures to support demand must aim to produce immediate effects, be of limited duration, and must be targeted at the sectors most affected and the most important as regards the structure of the economy (e.g. the automotive industry and the construction sector).
Mr Brown?s preferred method of implementing a fiscal stimulus through a VAT reduction is merely throwing confetti into the wind. Reducing VAT on DVDs and imported televisions does nothing to target the sectors most important to the UK (as the EU recommends).
The Bank recapitalisation is failing, the currency is collapsing as the UK accumulates mountains of debt, and the Labour Government is not supporting our strategic economic interests. They are indeed the true do nothing party.
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#212
gavin_humph
Well said... no case has been made by this government for why spending more moeny will work.
We have had eleven years of public sector spending growing faster than GDP and have been left heavily indebted as a result.
Now the proposal is for even more debt. Even more public spending. It got us to where we are now so how can it get us out? Discuss?
Do nothing? Don't think so. Cut public spending and cut public sector pensions and cut benefits.
Live within your means.
Call an election.
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Quote: "And despite all that, Labours popularity in the polls is increasing!
Are the people of this country thick or what?"
I think a lot of tory voters are telling the pollsters that they will vote labour in a desperate attempt to tempt Gordon into calling an election. If he thinks he can win it, he MIGHT call it.....
Oh who am I kidding, even with an eleven point LEAD in the poll in 2007 he still bottled it.
Brown is physically, emotionally, psychologically, genetically and in all other ways opposed to democracy as a decision making methodology.
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"A Department for Transport cost-cutting scheme to save £57m has left taxpayers with an £81m bill"
meanwhile the home secretary says that she's sorry for releasing figures which she had been explicitly told were bogus.
But, hey, the tories being "toffs" in the eyes of the BBC/Labour is much more important, right Nick?
Are the BBC even bothering to feign balance at the moment? To me they just look like the PR department of the labour party, paid for by the tax payer.
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222 - SELF PROPHETIC....
Just found out Cameron is holding a Press Conference NOW...no doubt you are there Nick?
He has tried to launch another attack on Labour on the Economy - same old rhetoric no new ideas,he has tried to have a go at Labour on welfare reforms - no new policy same old rhetoric...
As a result of his comments - he has been forced to defend his shadow cabinet and how effective they are...he has been forced to defend their devotion to the cause i.e 15 of them are not full time, he has been pushed on possible EU splits within his Party....
The appearance a day thing seems to be happening- its also clear - he has nothing new to say - so why say it???....
Sound bites can be good - when you are forced by friendly foe - journalists from the Sun and Mail - to defend your colleagues competence and comment on devisive splits - EU - would'nt it be better than to wait for a day when you can lead the debate - rather than make some half baked attempt to stoke it....and end up getting your own fingers burnt!
PS....Hope the bacon sarnies were nice Nick - I hear its one thing the Tories do very well!
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# 222 greatandydudley
States:
The other facet that is driving the Tories is the irrational fear that Labour will call an early election - the Tories are'nt ready,they cant fund it,they cant come up with substantive policies
How do you know?
Has there been a leak?
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Carry On Laughing Dudley.
Just goes to show that you and Gordons Ship Of Fools couldnt give a stuff.
So long as GB remains in No10 you're alright.
Which means you have absolutely no comprehension about what the implications are of the taxpayer taking the place of the wholesale money markets and bearing all the risk for at least the next 5 years (so, we're really going to return to positive growth next autumn??).... or you do understand and you choose to deny, bluff and bluster, harping on about do nothing, Eton Dave, blah blah blah, meaningless crap that the core vote will lap up because they've been dumbed down to the level of amoeba.
Great job. You must be proud.
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#209
You should know by now, NuLab don't do "yes" or "no".
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The way in which The Government are applying this fiscal stimulus (which i would concede it is wise to do after the way in which they have run the economy into the ground) is like dribbling into the wind. The stimulus is right the emphasis and the application of it is all wrong.
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Balhamu
So still not actually justifying why it makes sense to spend even more money on public sector whne growing the public sector more than GDP has left us insuch dire straights?
Thought not.
More rhetoric, more hyperbole. More spending and not supprted by any of the Grand Coalition parties in Germany. (who before you come back with statistics about their government debt can afford it because they have a hgh savings ratio)
The Gordon Brown strategy is to borrow more from whom? this is exactly the strategy he has failed to ctriticise the UK banks for adopting... lending what they didn't have on deposit.
Now your government wants to do the same... borrowing when there are no savings. Total backwards way aound upside down thinking from a government without a policy idea in its head.
Glad you finally made it out of bed by 10.30
Call an election.
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139
You make some good points. Indeed Blair/Brown was far too laisser-faire. I thought so at the time and now the evidence is all around us.
BUT if we think of economic policy-making as a continuum from (say) pure Keynesism at one extreme to pure Friedmanism at the other the problems can be laid firmly at the door of mixed economies such as the UK leaning far too far towards Milton and far too far away from Maynard. A year ago Cameron wanted more not less of the Friedman phoney freedom (as I said in 115). In fact we clearly had already had far too much! Cameron was suggesting that the best way to put out a fire was to throw petrol on the flames! Brown, belatedly perhaps, has turned Keynesian. And he is 100% right to do so and Cameron was 100% wrong in his diagnosis of a year ago.
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#234 obangobang
I'm not "NuLab" as you say, but as the barb was clearly aimed at me I refer you to post #228 (which was up by the time you posted) and ask if you can read?
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A good down to earth 47yr old east london man, low paid hard manual varied work for 33yrs, made redundant in June received minimal compensation, had to face over 4 month wait to receive any benefit, was taken to court for council tax arrears as from june, threatened with eviction etc etc.. He is now currently on an English GSCE course, (left school early to work no qualifications), offering full back up support. he has great imagination/talent, But P.E.E. point - evidence - explanation 60% of mark, he has absolutley no idea about, neither do i, do you? he was advised by his tutor to attend the support class specifically designed for help with PEE, he went to register, but was told he couldn't register, because English was his first language, this only applies to the English, he made points that PEE may aswell be a foriegn language, and that all students should be given the same support, that it puts him at a major disadvantage if he didn't receive help etc, and then finally that this was discrimiation against the English he was given the usual oh we do understand claptrap but that is policy so no help. So Nick, none of your crap about class, alledged scandal toffs etc means anything, this is what the true working of all classes think, and they hold your Labour government responsible,
he found this on the British Democratic site, a man who has never had any issue with race or colour as reflected in his family.
Goodbye to my England, so long my old friend.
Your days are numbered, being brought to an end.
To be Scottish, Irish or Welsh that's fine,
But don't say you're English, that's way out of line.
The French and the Germans may call themselves such,
Also Norwegians, the Swedes and the Dutch,
You can say you are Russian or maybe a Dane,
But don't say you're English not ever again.
At Broadcasting House the word is taboo,
In Brussels it's scrapped, in our parliament too.
Even schools are affected, staff do as they're told,
They must not teach children about England of old.
Writers like Shakespeare, Milton and Shaw
The pupils do not learn them anymore
How about Agincourt, Hastings, Arnhem or Mons,
When England lost lots of her very brave sons.
We are not Europeans, for how can we be?
Europe is miles away over the sea.
We're the English from England, let's all be proud,
Stand up and be counted, shout it out loud.
Let's tell our government and Brussels too,
We're proud of our heritage, Red & White so true
Fly the Cross of Saint George NOT the Union Jack
And let the wide world know we want ENGLAND BACK
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#240
Like I said, NuLab don't do "yes" or "no".
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derekbarker @123 and 125
You would have loved working for Stalin and liquidating the 'wreckers'.
I imagine you harbour similar ambitions for this government.
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re #240
Now you've referred it.
Well done!
Hope it can back your argument now - if it comes back you could look silly.
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#244 obangobang
Maybe I'm being harsh on you.
I remember I disagreed with a point that Robin made in the post too. Most of my posts where I do this (even in the politest terms possible) gets referred to the moderator.
Note that Robin's post's remain up and go unreferred no matter what criticism or insults he makes towards me.
He is a true defender of free speech
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Ok obangobang
grief asked "Are you suggesting that Cameron knew his pal was breaking FSA regulations - yes or no"
I said "That's clearly ridiculous (but it may reflect on his judgement, as Peter Oborne in the Mail noted)"
Do you think that means the answer is "Yes" or "No"? Really?
If you need clarity:
"NO - I am not suggesting Cameron knew about the FSA rule-breaking of his pal and adviser"
BUT
"It shows a lack of judgement"
Happy?
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237.
If the governments of the world don't provide a substantial economic stimulus to reduce the impact of this banking crisis, who is going to?
Hedge funds?
If no-one does provide a stimulus, how many more like the guy in 241 will be made redundant all over the world?
Me, I'm lucky to have savings and would love some deflation. Sadly, it cannot be allowed to happen, as western society would very quickly descend into anarchy, as the dispossessed millions wrought havoc upon Cameron's City chums, among others.
There's no way Cameron would do anything else but pump money into the UK economy, were he in office now. This is not a government or industrial problem like the '70s, the plain truth is that the world's major banks are bust, and that's the cause of the whole 'collapse'. It's not public spending, which is about the only thing propping many like the guy in 241 up at the moment. Even countries with low debt levels are having to pump their economies with low interest rates and fiscal measures.
The Germans are pumping their economy (whatever Steinbrueck may say), the Swiss, the Scandinavians, the Japanese, even the Chinese. Failure to administer oxygen to the patient now would mean death. Death to the global economy, plus death to the status quo which has served the world's wealthy especially well.
It's either pump now and pay later (through taxes and or inflation), or die now and face the social and economic consequences- unknown but quite bad, is a good way to imagine these.
Neither Steinbrueck nor Cameron, nor even Lady T herself, would actually fail to administer the oxygen under the circumstances we face today, for all their bluster.
The alternative scenario is truly shocking, and would never be countenanced by any UK or other western Govt., whether led Tebbit, Benn or whoever.
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Dear Nick
This is a rather disappointing post. I notice that you have put in a picture of David Cameron with Mr. Ross. Is this an attempt at guilt by association?
There are a lot of big issues going on which you are failing to cover and I have to wonder if this is another case of dumbing down.
I find this a shame as I have enjoyed many of your reports but recently they have started to look rather one-sided. I hope that you will be able to correct this.
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#244
I've never referred anything, chum, and I certainly wouldn't waste time on your drivel.
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I bet they don't allo wthis one.
I'm amazed how out of touch the BBC is with public opinion.
The performance of:
Robert Peston
Nick Robinson
Producers of Strickly Come dancing
Have all (in my opinion) shown contempt for the Royal Charter.
The people pay for this and a becoming more outraged. There is now an organised civil disobediance campaign on facebook to refuse the license fee. It now has 250,000 members.
If the BBC are not careful they will lose thier investors backing (you and me).
Of course under common law you cannot be licenced to do something that is already lawful like to own property (maybe a TV). So unless you apply for a license yourself and therefore offering a contract to the BBC, the BBC cannot force you into a contract for the lawful act of owning property. As I understand it. This is not legal advice.
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250 Rarebreed
The reason the BBC didn't allow your post is because they are all part of the commie conspiracy which runs this country.The BBC is like Stalin's Pravda, they've even got a Politburo, only they call it the BBC Governors, they crafty, scheming commies.
Look at the City of London, it's full of Gordon's Zanulab supporters, no wonder it's collapsed. Commies the lot of them.
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#249 obangobang
Yeah, yeah, keep it coming.
It does amaze me that the professed commitment to freedom of speech of the right-wing posters on here - and their bemoaning the "illiberal ZaNuLaborePF" - and the bullying and attempts to remove postings of those with a different view to themselves.
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#251 munich
Wouldn't bother - sarcasm isn't well understood on here.......
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"and the photograph of Mr Cameron himself alongside the shamed co-founder of Carphone Warehouse have raised a real danger for the Conservative Party."
I'm not sure what you're trying insinuate here in in relation to David Ross, or indeed the potential for any collateral damage to Cameron. It's not like Ross perpetrated an illegal war in Iraq, executed a hair brained set of fiscal policies that have left the UK in the worst position of any industrialised nation to weather the downturn, or indeed lied on his mortgage application.
Your sycophancy is obvious and annoying. I'm sure there are times when you wonder why growing numbers of us no longer want to pay our tv license. Then again, maybe not...
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If we're going to have guilt by association, what about what Mandleson was doing on Oleg Deripaska's yacht?
Come on, Nick - level playing field and all that....!!
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There is one political commentator who says it has it is. John Pinaar
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What has always amazed me is the bias is so obvious to everyone. Is it because of the Licence Fee? Or is it because they want peerages at the top.
The thing is the BBC are suppossed to be un-biased yet they are not. Where is the mention of the Ecclestone affair Nick, or the Blairs mortgage affair with a conman,or even Mandalson on the yacht. Come on Nick do the decent thing.
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I don't know if it's occurred to those that deride David Ross, and then try to smear David Cameron by association, but the only reason that Ross's Carphone shares were any use as collateral were because he and his fellow directors had built the company into a force to be reckoned with.
Even the most cynical would have to allow that it might have been this commercial acumen that qualified Ross as an advisor to Cameron. To imply Cameron is guilty of poor judgement for trying to learn something from someone who, at the time, was a leading figure in such an important sector just invites the accusation of poor judgement on themselves.
If the Conservatives were to accept a donation from Ross today, or maybe even pose with him for a photograph then that might just count as poor judgement. This hopeless fishing for dirt is silly at the best of times but actually pathetic when there are so many insidious things that go unreported.
Ross appears to have let down his colleagues by not asking their permission to act as he did. Bad faith, poor judgement certainly, possibly dishonest but not criminal seemingly. Compare these actions with those of our government:
1. One documented instance of dubious behaviour vs. endless and systematic lying, spinning, withholding, covering up.
2. Ross has paid a high price for his wrong doing. Labour won't even admit their part in our current troubles let alone accept responsibility and face consequences.
3. Ross endangers the share price if he defaults on his loans. No apparent evidence he has yet, and now it's all out in the open, he's presumably subject to civil action for any damage that might occur. Labour's profligant spending and inept management are hurting millions right now, and they plan even more of the same.
4. Ross helped create a household name from small beginnings, one that is better placed than most to withstand the recession. Labour took a strong and growing economy and all but destroyed it leaving it in jeopardy for a generation to come.
If there is a hidden agenda in Dave's words then maybe it's that if he can get the public to hold finance accountable then maybe he can hang his political opponents with the same rope. Personally I hope his motives are more aspirational, even spiritual. Social Justice will banish sleaze and provide the framework necessary to contain the excesses of pure market capitalism.
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#210 RobinJD #228 balhamu
Act 1:
#210 RobinJD said:
I hadn't realised that balhamu and derekbarber were part of the work shy brigade who only get going on this post later in the day when the benefits offcier calls.
Act 2:
#228 balhamu said:
#210 RobinJD So not posting during the day makes me work shy? How do you work that one out? Surely your multiple posts during the day (in this ego and others) mark you out as work shy? Unless, of course, this is your work? Care to elaborate?
Act 3:
*Someone* cries to the moderators
Act 4:
Post #228 is removed for the following reason:
Dear BBC Blog contributor, Thank you for contributing to a BBC Blog. Unfortunately we've had to remove your content below Comments posted to BBC blogs will be removed if they are considered likely to provoke, attack or offend others; are racist, sexist, homophobic, sexually explicit, abusive or otherwise objectionable; are considered to have been posted with an intention to disrupt; contain swear words (including abbreviations or alternative spellings) or other language likely to offend.
Risible.
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