Obama - what they said/mean
Gordon Brown: "I know Barack Obama and we share many values...We both have determination to show that government can act to help people fairly through these difficult times facing the global economy."
Political translation - I know Barack Obama, Mr Cameron, and you are no Barack Obama.
- Obama's a progressive like me who believes in the role of the government, internationalism and helping the many not the few.
David Cameron: "In these difficult times people everywhere are crying out for change. Barack Obama is the first of a new generation of leaders who will deliver it."
Political translation - It's time for a change. I am the next in that generation of leaders who will deliver it.
Alex Salmond: "This was a victory for optimism over pessimism, for hope over fear."
- Scotland's first Minister extended an invitation to Barack Obama who traces his ancestry to William the Lion, who ruled Scotland from 1165 to 1214, to visit the country in Scotland's Year of Homecoming in 2009.
Political translation - Vote for cheery Alex not gloomy Gordon in the Glenrothes by-election on Thursday.
- If Obama visits Scotland they'll stop asking me about Iceland.
UPDATE, 12:56 PM: Yet more evidence at prime minister's questions of how our political leaders will try to surf the Obama wave. As previewed yesterday David Cameron turned Gordon Brown's conference warning that "this is no time for a novice" back on him. The prime minister replied by picking another quote from that very same speech "What I said was that serious times needed serious people. Once again you've proved you are not serious."
Then it was onto Cameron's message on change: "On the day the American people voted for change aren't people in this country entitled to ask: how much longer have we got to put up with more of the same from a government that has failed?"
That was followed by Brown's claim that the American people voted for change because they wanted "progressive policies" and that "Conservative Party policies are rejected in America and in Britain..."
Nick Clegg claimed to be the British advocate of Obama's most important policy - cutting taxes on the middle classes by raising them on the richest.
Prepare for this Obamania to go on...and on...and on.
I'm 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~32~RS~)
CommentsSign in
You need to sign in to contribute to this page. If you're new to BBC Blogs, creating your membership is quick and easy.
Thank goodness, a president we can understand.
Seems the time is right for a novice after all.
Time for change, time for renewal.
Call an election.
Complain about this comment
Personally I agree with the "time for change" line
Brown only offers more of the same, failed policies, failed initiatives, failed accountability, failed regulation, failed government.
Pretty much every arguement Obama used against McCain and the republicans can be aimed at Brown and Labour
Complain about this comment
This thing of ignored minorities winning elections is not a one-way street, here in the UK we might yet see a BNP candidate win a byelection.
Complain about this comment
Fresh faced ,appealing, with a mission and a style of rhetoric which people believe. What a contrast to the puffy faced, growling,haven't slept for a week, can't believe a word I say Gordon Brown. God knows Cameron may not be the answer to our prayers but anything is preferable to Brown and the incompetence that surrounds him. I shudder to think what impression of Britain ,Obama as president of the USA will take away from meetings with Brown. This man potentially is our greatest ally and protector and what he sees in Brown will shape his attitude to Britain , God help us.
Complain about this comment
Obama was elected on a ticket of "Change".
America rejected McCain because he was too closely associated with Bush (Iraq and Economic Crash)
In the UK we have rid ourselves of Blair (Iraq) and before we can move onwards we need to rid ourselves of Brown (Economic Crash-UK)
Salmond and Cameron can both claim to be part of a new order. We need them to be - because the country is in a total mess after 11 years and we need new leaders with new ideas who will deliver change.
Complain about this comment
#1
Come on Carrots, for goodness sake, the Americans have just given the conservative
political agenda, the biggest rejection in history.
This is "NO" time to be a conservative.
The conservative are done for, its an end to all conservatives around the world.
Complain about this comment
So Mr Brown, do you still think this is no time for a novice?
Complain about this comment
On reflection I'm not sure if this is funny or scary:
Downing Street insiders are hoping that, with Mr Brown's huge experience of ministerial office, he can become something of a mentor to the relatively inexperienced "leader of the free world".
Please do not unleash Brown on the US - they've just voted for change afterall!
The US wants change. Surely they don't want to be taking hot tips from the one man who helped deliver the global Economic Crash and who was part of the dodgy-dossier government who made the case for invading Iraq?
Complain about this comment
Dear Nick
I am the man in the street, doing his own thing for his family,and charity begins in the living room of my home,
I do not care one iota about what happens in the USA, WHAT I CARE ABOUT IS THE ESTABLISHMENT BRITISH RIP OFF MERCHANTS SUCH AS
(1)Local Authorities and council tax.relating to the number of employees they cost us.
(2) Utilitiy Companies who are ripping people of double that of Europe. 14% to 29%
(3) Useless watc h dogs who support the Utility Companies instead of supporting the General Public.
(4) Banks who do not pass on lower interest rates and also rip people off.
(5) Food prices that have gone through the roof on the back of oil prices.
(5) The general publics cash in failed banks who have lost everything, except if your the banks bosses.
(6) oIL PRICES at 59$ a barrrel and prices at the pumps still at UNACCEPTABLE levels.
(7) the Green Party and Carbon trust idiots wanting more tax.
(8), Bloated pay and salaries for BBC executives paid from the liscence fee.
(9) Hikes in Train fares and cuts in the number of trains.
(10), Stealth tax's still being implimented by Labour hidden in the small print by Brown.
(11) A Prime Minister and Chancellor who are nothing but useless and have no concern for the British people other than to control the masses by what ever devious means possible
(11) We need our FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY BACK,
*12) To stop copying ideas from America.
(13) to tell Brussels where to get off and mind their own business and keep their noses out of British affairs.
(!4) To declare the Lisbon Treaty Dead stuff Europe and America they caused this mess ,and like the idiots our Government is they got on the tread mill and followed suite.
Now you think this is personal, but i can say hand on heart that this is view most ENGLISH MEN, AND WOMEN agree with.
Complain about this comment
derekbarker@6.
The Americans have voted for change. We will vote for change. Just give us the chance soon.
Complain about this comment
Tony Blair got into power because he was fresh-faced he had new ideas, and people thought that things would really get better. They didn't.
We now have Gordon Brown. He is neither fresh-faced nor has he any new ideas, except the ones involving yet more taxation.
Time for change - call an election.
Complain about this comment
I'm not at all sure what this means for the UK. What I am sure of is that it was an important choice for the great nation of America and they have got it spectacularly right.
I knew they would.
Complain about this comment
You have been watching too much 'Mock the Week'.
Complain about this comment
9 Solomanbrown
I don't think either the media or the political class understand just how angry the people of Britain are.
The government seems happy to lie and spin to us on many of the topics you raised and the media seem content to let them get away with it.
Someone somewhere needs to inject some urgency into British politics and to stop treating the public as if they are fools.
Complain about this comment
The government has been defeated in the House of Lords over the issue of keeping peoples' DNA and fingerprints on the police national database.
Peers backed a Conservative amendment calling for national guidelines for deleting material by 161 votes to 150.
Good day to bury bad news again
Complain about this comment
'Dave' Cameron and the Tories desprately trying to align themselves with the most left-wing president America has ever elected. HILARIOUS!
Had a real laugh this morning, listening to 'the boy' Hague, proclaiming that this is the new generation and the change Britain needs to follow. A failed former Tory Party Leader, and Dave and George from the Bullingdon Club............... Just like Obama!!!! Ha! Ha!
The charismatic novice Obama and the experienced Brown are a team that will work together and lead the free world forward and away from the reactionary right wing. As Gordon Brown said they can work together as they have shared values.
The era started by Reagan and Thatcher has finally come to an end.
Rejoice!!!
Bill McFadden
Complain about this comment
PammyAnny
The Americans not only voted to change the conservative minded republicans, they has signed the death throes of the conservatives forever.
Peace be with you.......it's a good day!
Complain about this comment
Remember when Tony Blair was elected everyone? Remember how everyone was ready for something different, something better and how we looked forward to a bright and shiny future of prosperity and peace? But what did we get and where are we now?
I'm glad the Americans have kicked out George Bush and the Republicans but I don't hold out much hope for Barak Obama to be anything other than what he is i.e. A politician.
Complain about this comment
I heard all these statements from the people themselves on the news.
The only one that appeared obvious in its message was Cameron's - he seemed to stress the word "change".
Of the three messages, I this his has the strongest appeal on this day because the USA has voted for change.
Brown has to show that to "help people fairly through these difficult times " with shared values does not mean a change is needed here.
Complain about this comment
Soloman. With your cunning use of random caps and ill judged use of the shift key, in no way do you look like a frothing at the mouth ranting lunatic.
That salmond line made me smile
Complain about this comment
#6
rejected 'conservative'?
I don't think so.
The only way to reject conservative in the US is not to vote at all as both democrats and republicans are right wing by UK standards.
This is a rejection of;
Two wars one of which was illegal.
A credit boom which has left millions with debts they cannot ever repay.
Old hand leaders who feel it's no time for novices.
Move over Gordon Brown; you appear to fall into all three categories.
Not least how will Obama greet the man whose default setting for a year has been "This is a problem that started in America" ??? I suspect Gordon Brown will find himself rather unpopular in the US having blamed them for his own credit boom for the past year.
RBS did not start in America
HBOS do not start in America
These problems were home grown by a chancellor hell bent on fuelling a credit boom that has left us with the highest personal indebtedness in the world; 180% personal indebtedness to income...
Call an election.
Complain about this comment
Nick,
there is a major problem that few people seem to be taking an interest in.
When Mr Obama refers to change then do not other countries have similar feelings. Time for change alright. Take Iraq.
You can believe that people in Iraq are now saying ok America it is time for change. It is time for you, Americans to leave our land. It is the same for Britain, it is time for change leave our land.
In Afghanistan and Pakistan you will soon hear the same chant aimed at America and Britain, leave our land. Get out, you are the terrorists. You kill our women and children, and murder our freedom fighters using unmanned Drones.
So, in the same way as I have said about Gordon Brown, one more death is unacceptable. It is time for change, go home.
Finally, you can take it as read that Gordon Brown will hold an election in May 2009, he will try to get credit for any initial bounce in America, the economy will only get worse, and we cannot afford the wars. Both countries are being bankrupted.
Complain about this comment
So Obama has struck not only for the Afro Americans but for all the novices of the world!!
Poor Mr Brown is left on his own to solve the world problems or perhaps it is time for a change in this country too.
Complain about this comment
Bush has bequeathed America with two failed wars, a massive budget deficit, a hopelessly unregulated financial market, a divided country...
Sound familiar?
Complain about this comment
shellingout: "Time for change - call an election."
Imv, there is NO ONE in Westminster capable of forging that change.
Lab or Con, the political will is to maintain the status quo: snouts in the trough.
"We're doomed. All doomed."
Complain about this comment
#7 Good point.
Another argument that supports Cameron. This seems like a good time to press ahead with their case. Other things they could possibly exploit-
1. They could blame Brown for people having to spend less at Christmas
2. At it gets colder, they could repeat that "people are worrying now about the high winter bills coming next March"
This assumes that people will spend less at Christmas and we get a bad winter.
Complain about this comment
Devolution body to take evidence
The Calman Commission is due to publish its final report early next year
The body reviewing the workings of Scottish devolution after 10 years is due to take evidence in London.
The Calman Commission was set up in March to look at how things have changed since the Scots voted in favour of creating their own parliament.
It will consider the Barnett formula, used to allocate public spending across the UK based on population share.
Sir Kenneth Calman has said all the evidence received has called for the formula to be based on needs instead.
Scottish votes
The Barnett formula was devised in the late 1970s to automatically apply a proportionate share of any change in comparable spending programmes in England to Scotland.
Lord Barnett, who created the formula when he was Labour's Treasury chief secretary, has said the formula was never intended as a long-term measure.
However, BBC News political correspondent Jo Coburn says there are serious doubts that the UK government would be prepared to overhaul the formula for fear of upsetting Scottish voters.
The commission is due to publish its final report early next year.
It will be a good idea to bury this until after Thursday as well
Complain about this comment
Gordon Brown, he really is an opoportunist at the highest level.
I can just see today, its only just past 10.30am and already we have over 5 soundbites from Gordon Brown about how well he knows Obama, how he can help him and how our relationship with the USA (which apprantely extends back only these last 12 months) will improve....... more classic quotes please Gordon, i cringe more and more, i can only hope our next election has a similar result, lowest rating prior to polls out....
Complain about this comment
6. derekbarker
Come on Derek, youre not trying to tell me that the democrats are left of (our) centre are you?
The democrats are conservatives with a small c. The republicans are Conservatives with a massive C
The Americans have essentially rejected the hawks, rejected a party with an apatite for war and one who sailed blindly in to economic collapse.
They have finally realised that Bush was a disaster. They also realised that voting for a guy that may not complete the term, only to be replaced by helicoptering, moose shooting, creationist might not be a clever move.
And good for them.
Our turn next eh!
Complain about this comment
Very funny, like 'read between the lines' in Mock the Week which always gives me a good laugh.
Complain about this comment
@16
I can't see Obama wanting anything to do with "experienced" Brown.
He is tainted with all the baggage of Bush Failed economic policy and lies over Iraq
Complain about this comment
#14 jonathan_cook
Someone somewhere needs to inject some urgency into British politics and to stop treating the public as if they are fools.
Hear! Hear!
Complain about this comment
@17
You misjudge why Obama won.
Obama wins because he isnt tainted with economic failure and the Iraq war.
Change for changes sake just like Britain in 1997.
The same will happen in 2010, Change for changes sake alone
Complain about this comment
The government has been defeated in the House of Lords over the issue of keeping peoples' DNA and fingerprints on the police national database.
Peers backed a Conservative amendment calling for national guidelines for deleting material by 161 votes to 150.
Good day to bury bad news again
Nick - why wasn't this reported?
Complain about this comment
I thought Nick Clegg made a comment too. What happened to that? Was it not quotable? Would it not have more relevance to us southeners than Alex Salmond's?
And do we dare hope American voters have taken a small step away from the right? Not yet on the "slippery slope to socialism", but hopefully one small step in that direction.
Obama carries the hopes of the American voters and much of the world on his shoulders. What a responsibility!
Complain about this comment
Hopefully, the boost given by Obama's fantastic win in the US will bolster time for change in Glenrothes tomorrow.
People have suffered enough under Gordon Brown's lot. Anyway, who can actually see Lindsay Roy standing up in Westminster and making a sensible speech? Anyone who can give up a job that is so necessary to the education of our young people is not worthy of being in control as an MP. How long will it take for him to get fed up with that job as well? Or is the salary and the PERKS more of an encouragement for him?
After all, he will soon be of retiral age.
He has left a sinking ship and I doubt if the parents of children at Kirkcaldy High School will forgive him for that. If anyone else had 'taken leave of absence' to look for another job, he would have been fired.
Complain about this comment
We must have an election now.
It would be a relief to wake up and not to have to face Gordon Brown ranting on.
(It's not my fault, It's global, It's them big boy's in America, they made me,)
I wish he would change the record, an election would at least give us peace from his hounding and pushing himself into our private lives and a chance to get off our knees.
He has tried his best to force us to join the EU, He knows a vote would be NO.
This country NEEDS a change of government.
Spread the joy of an election to UK.
Complain about this comment
Gordon Brown: "I know Barack Obama and we share many values"
Here is a reminder of some of Brown's values:
Plotting and backstabbing
Knowingly crashing the economy
Lying
World Statesman
Pensions Raid
10p Tax on the poor
Stealth Taxes
I don't think you do share any values with Barack Obama Mr Brown.
Complain about this comment
#29
Carrots, We are talking about the first Black American President, who wants sweeping tax changes, health care for the poor, peace in the world and a more regulated banking system, A President that wants to bring the troops home from Iraq ect.
Come on Carrots, the world has changed
those who hold to the old principles of conservatism are out dated and drift wood.
.
Complain about this comment
Poprishchin@18
That is my fear too. There are too many similarities between the backgrounds of Obama and Blair for comfort:
Legal training
Charisma
Young family
Political wife
Highly efficient political support team
I do hope the Americans haven't bought a Blair in a poke.
However, I do think that a mixed race president will help reposition the USA in the world. And I do hope that Obama will be able to cope with all the expectations of the people - including mine re repositioning!
And how does everyone feel about the Clintons lurking offstage?
Complain about this comment
24 Westkentview
Spot on.
Complain about this comment
Nick,
I wonder how long it will be before we hear the term carpetbaggers coming from the American press and media.
As for David Lammy, who apparently knows Mr Obama, I will never ever forgive him for being part of a government which abolished Community Health Councils.
I can't wait for the result of the Glenrothes bye-election, oh and Gordon Brown will have to bring a sombre mood to the Commons at PMQs because of the death of another soldier in Afghanistan.
Finally, I can only hope that the Speaker gets Brown to actually answer questions and stop quoting remarks by the conservatives, and they are the liberal democrats not the liberals.
Obama will fail, mainly because he doesn't represent so many people in America, especially if the change to which he refers will be the impoverishment of so many by higher taxes. There is the scorched earth policy being undertaken by the Republicans, get your revenge, impeach Bush for crimes against humanity and waging an illegal war.
Complain about this comment
The nuanced aspects of Keynesian economics, the shift in global politics, and world poverty have something to say. The Anglo-American dance with Reagan-Thatcher economics is over. This will be scary for the egos who've done well under that scheme but they're going to have to get used to it.
The mass psychology versus the party psychology of the right have crashed, and the left of centre train is in tune with the underlying national and global economic flow. That means developing success and society from the ground up is where it's at. The right don't naturally get this so have a problem.
People talk of change but as any Buddhist knows, you can't change the world, only yourself. Buddhism says: "Before enlightenment; chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment; chop wood, carry water." If you want change you have to wake up to change and the potential of change in yourself.
Let go, sweetie.
Complain about this comment
In his acceptance speech, President Elect Obama said the time of a person's place in America because of great wealth was over. Republicanism/Conservatism is dead in the water. It is the Conservatives who need to change. They still believe in looking after the few and not the many, as their policy on Inheritance Tax shows. William Hague's attempt to identify with the Democratic party and Obama was risible, particularly as the Tories were so anxious to show solidarity with the Republicans when John McCain addressed the Tory faithful at their conference.
David Cameron, you are no Barack Obama, and the Conservative doctrine will never be able to ally with that of the Democrats. There is more that separates you than unites.
Complain about this comment
For all those who believe thish is an end to Conservatism, lets look at Obama's policies
20% Corporation Tax
38% Top rate Tax paid over 140,000
Healthcare paid for by affordable private insurance
Government taking 38% of the nations wealth to fund it
If this is progessive politics can we have some here.
Complain about this comment
Nick, do you think the bed is big enough for all his (new found) friends to get into? One thing I am certain of though, good old Gordonbennet can take little comfort from Obama's win. Just as Oabama outed the discredited Republican 'elite' Cameron will do the same to the discredited New Labour 'elite' come election time. Rather than celebrating good old Gordonbennet ought to be thinking about what this victory for Obama means for his troupe of clowns. What it means is that the writing is on the wall for New Labour. We're going to do the same to them come election time. Gordonbennet and his clowns have almost bankrupted our country and as in the US, they'll not be forgiven for it.
Complain about this comment
Your last little snide comment gave me a wry smile.
I am most interested to know when some journalist somewhere will ask Mr Brown and Mr Darling about Iceland and just when they knew the Icelanders were in trouble and also if they are going to sue the British Government.
Perhaps asking that hugely numerate chap ,the new Secretary of State for Scotland, when he is next going to visit either Ireland, Iceland or Norway, would be another interesting little question which some journalist somewhere might ask.
But obviously NOT a BBC journalist.
Complain about this comment
Time for a change, lets have a novice.
After all the "best chancellor of the last 100 years" messed up the economy big time. He's now been let loose on the United Kingdom.
The IMF have publicly blamed the USA and UK for the world economic problems. He cannot duck responsibility for much longer before he is kebabed.
Complain about this comment
#38 jonathan_cook
A veritable catalogue of disasters.
Complain about this comment
Gordon most definately is not the answer. Cameron hasnt got it either; the Conservatives now are where NuLiebour was in 1996. Things have changed since then, significantly and the Tories arent ready, still after all this time. We have, unfortunately let loose a generation of politicians in our own image - the "whats in it for me?" generation. I sincerely do not think that ANY of them, regardless of their political colour have the slightest interest in genuinely serving the electorate, only in feeding their own egos and bank balances. I just wish that the public had the gumption to stand upto these charlatans, poke them in the chest and remind them just who they are accountable to. As it stands at the moment, we have a political class who are nothing better than professional liars... people who lie and cheat in return for public money.
Derek Barker, you are kidding yourself if you truly beleive what you write. Or, you are Alistair Campbell.
What scares me is that unless the mainstream parties sort their acts out and start acting in our interests instead of their own, is that the charismatic leader that we need (and maybe that America has elected, time will tell) is not going to emerge from the mainstream, he/she will emerge from the far right. I sincerely hope Nick Griffin or his successors do not have their eureka moment any time soon.
Those of you who keep on thinking that Brown is the panacea, he's the answer to getting us out of this self inflicted disaster zone... you're welcome to him. I'm trying my utmost to emigrate.
Complain about this comment
The Glenrothes by-election had been deliberately moved to be the day after the usa election so that the results will only seen by the bbc as an "and finally...." minor story.
I wonder if the Americans, after their initial euphoria, will wonder whether or not they've done the right thing.
Obama seems to believe in the state taking control over people's lives, and that's as anti-american as you can get. To an outsider it looks like they've chosen someone new to see what happens and because they were sick of the current government (much like the uk did when they elected blair in 1997), but that they don't know for sure if it'll be a good move in the medium/longer term.
Complain about this comment
I spy a big glamorous job for Bill Clinton in the Obama administration.
It "allows" him to serve his country and ensures that Hillary and her supporters remain on side.
Maybe US representative at the UN which would be a nice local job for the husband of a NY Senator and also allow him free rein to travel abroad.
If we want some more experience how about Al Gore as Environment Secretary?
This would appease those looking for experience in an untried President and keeps them all inside the tent p*ss**g out as it were.
Complain about this comment
"Downing Street insiders are hoping that, with Mr Brown's huge experience of ministerial office, he can become something of a mentor to the relatively inexperienced "leader of the free world"."
I really wouldn't be surprised if Brown thought this to be the case. There really is no bounds to his arrogance.
He's already the self-appointed saviour of the global financial system and apparently is so egotistical that he thinks he can simply march into Saudi Arabia and demand that oil prices are cut.
So I have no doubt that Brown will take every opportunity to associate himself with Obama and appropriate yet more self-importance. When you are that unpopular what else can you do but hang on the coattails of those who are really setting the agenda?
Complain about this comment
Brown has announced that Obama shares his values. Blast, I was hoping for better times!
Complain about this comment
CEH
How much is Gordon Brown paying you?
Complain about this comment
39. derekbarker
And that differes from the Tory party in which respect?
Complain about this comment
Derek
Youll like this key left wing policy from Obama
Obama's Stance on the Economy:
Barack Obama has offered a detailed plan to get America?s economy back on track, by creating new jobs and easing the burden on hardworking Americans by offering middle-class tax cuts.
Yep sounds very left wing to me.
Complain about this comment
With saturation coverage of events in the USA it's a good day for burying bad news. Any idea what our great leaders have quietly filed away today?
Complain about this comment
For those of you trying to make comparisons between American politics and UK politics and making bold claims about a left wing consensus sweeping through the rest of the world I have to say you are very wide of the mark.
Firstly the British Conservatives are to the left of even US Democrats on almost every issue of domestic policy.
Second in the UK we have a centrist consensus between the two parties. There are only very minor differences in terms of policy. We elect a change of executives and consultants rather than a change in major policy.
So to try and transplant the ideological divide from America into the UK is wholly naive.
Complain about this comment
When will Nick Robinson will admit to having a Labour party membership card ?
Complain about this comment
Nick,
Gordon Brown a "progressive" - you have got to be joking !!!!!!
His ideals, values, opinions and methods are decades out of date, and hpefully he will be joining these as being part of history himself soon.
That comment tops anything that CEH or Derek Barker could come up with !!!
Complain about this comment
Gordon Brown and Obama "sharing many values" .......
believing that your country should elect it's leader clearly isn't one of them.
Complain about this comment
I wouldn't read too much personally into any analogies between the US presidential election politics and the political status in this country.
The only real commonality of interest for me is that both countries were desperate to replace their leader, and the US has now got it's wish. We are still stuck with Gordon Brown, however.
Complain about this comment
It means that success comes to he who has the gift of the gab, aka charisma.
Other notable charismatics were:
Adolf Hitler
Soekarno
Idi Amin
Saddam Hussein
Let's hope he's a Winston Churchill in the making
Peter Sidwell
Complain about this comment
Carrots
What century do you think we live in?
I think he said he would create tax cuts for those who earn less than 250,000 Dollars a year.
So plumber joe also gets a tax cut.
He then moves the higher rate of tax to those in and above the said amount.
Come on Carrots, more jobs, you dont have a problem with that! do you.
Jezz, are you confused with the tax burden? an asset based economy, opposed to the fast buck greed of the conservative nature.
History has dealt a blow to the conservative
way, give up your greed and join the human race......REJOICE.
Complain about this comment
Change is the keyword - after over 11 years of Brownism, this country desperately needs change. As Cromwell said: "(Brown,) you have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately ... Depart, I say; and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"
Complain about this comment
U11714077@63
"We are still stuck with Gordon Brown, however."
Who wasn't even elected by the voters. How about a bit of democracy here.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
60 derekupfront
"When will Nick Robinson will admit to having a Labour party membership card ?"
I don't believe that he carries one, the problem is that if he is nasty to NuLabour he gets cut out of the scoops, so he has to stay on side or else have nothing original to put on his blogs.
By such means do governments control the press, and this government does it a great deal more diligently than previous governments have done.
Complain about this comment
Isn't it pathetic the way these sad, creepy people try to jump on Obama's coat-tails?
Did they support the Chicago Senator before the Iowa caucus? No: so it is all our old friend and mentor Mr British Hypocrisy all over again.
The reason why Obama won was that he was a new face with a new message at a time when the old faces and old messages were proven bust.
I suppose now we are going to have to put up with egotistical buffoons setting themselves up as the British `Obama'. This is an American phenomenon and good luck to them. There are no British parallels and, for the sake of the nationalist purists, no Scottish either.
Complain about this comment
Lord Mandelson is facing renewed calls to explain dealings with Russian tycoon Oleg Deripaska after they fail to appear in his declaration of interests.
Liberal Democrat MP Norman Baker described the new business secretary's entry in the House of Lords' register as "threadbare and totally inadequate".
More bad news released on a good day to hide bad news.
Thats 3 i've spotted that the beeb have let through. Going on the iceberg theory there must be another 21 items of bad news out there today that havent made it into a report yet
Complain about this comment
History has dealt a blow to the conservative
way, give up your greed and join the human race......REJOICE.
I see this as history dealing a blow to the idiotic way. Now we need to get rid of our home-grown idiots - this government. Give it time and we too can rejoice. The very real down-side is that the die is cast for Obama and Cameron. The US and UK economies have been utterly gutted by a decade of mismanagement that is, for want of a better phrase, wilfully criminal. Or, at best, utterly incompetent. The kind of incompetence you'd get if you handed the economy over to a bunch of eight year olds.
Ohhhhh. What shall we do? Oh, I know. Borrow lots of money and spend it on stuff. New cars, foreign holidays, shiny new buildings, free money for all my mates.
Point is, I'm not sure this debacle can be turned around without a decade of pain. There'll be no remortgaging of our appreciated house for a new car, a trip to see Mickey in Florida and a home cinema for some time to come. The public finances are going to be utterly trashed. It'll be like having had a war without even the stirring patriotic music on the radio and a flag to wrap ourselves up in. It will be dire. That's what Obama, Cameron and the tax-payers of the US and UK have to look forward to.
So thanks, George Bush. Thanks, Gordon Brown. For totally destroying our economies. Way to go!!!!!
Failure of capitalism? Triumph of idiocy more like.
Complain about this comment
So tell me waht this means..
"this is a moment that will live in history as long as history books are written..."
Gordon Brown this morning on the Obama victory.
Is this the newlabour agenda to save money?? They are going to stop writing history books? Are they keen that the appaling newlabour track record of personal indebtedness does not make it into the history books?Are they keen that all thos "no more boom and bust" speeches are airbrushed from th history books?
It's come to a sorry state of affairs when either the elected government is planning to remove history books or the prime monister can't even speak the english language.
Call an election.
Complain about this comment
At least Black Obama was elected by the people. Gordon Brown looks wistfully on as he realises only too well that he was NOT.
Tony Blair was a great hope of the British people who were looking for real change. He didn't deliver. Black Obama may find it more difficult than he thought it would be, but for the sake of America we hope he succeeds.
Complain about this comment
Here is an interesting take on why Gordon Brown and Labour are not getting the kicking they so richly deserve at the moment:
Why Brown is still here
So the question is will the media narrative change?
I guess Nick's piece today might answer that. I suspect the media are now craving some arty shots of Gordon and Barack together so that they can spout off opinion pieces about the special relationship and how this will change under Obama.
Meanwhile - on planet earth - the population of the UK are being taxed to within an inch of our lives, are dealing with a downturn and crying out for a change of government who we know got us into this mess and are now lying to us.
Unfortunately - the needs of the public are not a fashionable thing for journalists to focus on at the moment.
I forecast 3 to 5 months of Obama and Brown love in by the media.........
Complain about this comment
So some people keep saying but what they really mean is they like their comfort zone and want their favourite party to take over so it can be stroked. That's not change, that's habit.
"Sometimes, we will hit the target...
but miss the self."
Be still, grasshopper.
Complain about this comment
@69
What is the point in staying onside to get scoops that are valuless by being untrue and unbeleivable in nature.
Much better to practice real journalism and truly scoop a story that no one else has got and hence bring down the publics rightious wrath as the last real journalists did with Nixon.
Can anyone else sight any examples of real scoop journalism since Nixon was brought down.
Complain about this comment
@73
Brilliant insight until you spelled minister incorrectly
I get where your brain was though. a cross between minister and monster hence monister.
Complain about this comment
I am amused by the way the two political leaders in the UK have leapt forward to claim ownership of Senator Obama's victory. And by Jove, posters on this blog are doing it too! The US should really give us a vote next time.
Congratulations to the senator. He faces a curiously Kennedy-like situation in the defence challenge thrown down today by Russia. That should give him all the 'experience' he is going to need and good luck to him.
Complain about this comment
#73 RobinJD
Ditto. Call an election.
Complain about this comment
Serious times need sensible people Mr Brown
Serious people are certainly not all sensible. You for one.
Just admit you've made some great blunders over the last 11 years and you've learned from them.
Then you might be taken seriously.
Complain about this comment
"Conservative party policies are rejected ... in Britain"
What exactly is he basing this on? Every opinion poll I've seen has Cameron in the lead. Yes, his lead has come down as of late, but more people in this country prefer Conservative policies over Labour ones.
Complain about this comment
"The Glenrothes by-election had been deliberately moved to be the day after the usa election so that the results will only seen by the bbc as an "and finally...." minor story."
Oh Dear!
Glenrothes is irrelevant.
Please get a grip.
(There is a world out there.)
Complain about this comment
Please just cast your minds back to when Obama came to London. He seemed far more relaxed with Cameron than with Brown. Brown at the time was running scared and having a really tough time - can't remember the exact headlines as there have been so many - and Cameron was doing well in the polls and really looking statesmanlike with Obama.
Cameron needs to start to talk to the people more. Talk of his plan to get us out of this mess. To invigorate some confidence in him, and to make us believe that there is possibility of things better to come. Talk about his first 100 days of power and what he will be putting forward as policy. Gordon will be thinking of an election next year I'm sure of it - if not Gordon may be gone after Glenrothes anyway!
Complain about this comment
65 Derek
I quote direct from his web site:
Obama's Stance on Taxes
Barack Obama provides a middle class tax cut for 95 percent of American workers. Middle class families will get three times the tax relief from Obama than they would from John McCain.
Plumber Joe gets a tax cut along with 95 percent of em.
No problem with creating real jobs with real growth, just have a problem with creating lots of government jobs via high taxation on wealth creation.
No blow to conservatism, just a big blow to the incumbents and the creators of the current mess.
Time for real renewal, not a brown version.
Complain about this comment
More good fun
Complain about this comment
#76 CEH
So some people keep saying but what they really mean is they like their comfort zone and want their favourite party to take over so it can be stroked. That's not change, that's habit.
"Sometimes, we will hit the target...
but miss the self."
Urm....I don't know about anyone else, but I am certainly not in any sort of comfort zone. I can't say that the Tories are my favourite party either, but as that is probably the only alternative we will have, then so be it.
Gordon's missed the target and the self. What would you say to him, Charles?
Complain about this comment
In 1979, the message used against Callghan's pathetic government was 'Labour is not working'.
When unelected Brown calls an election the message should be 'It is time for change, it is time for a novice'.
Complain about this comment
Looking quite good for the SNP now in Glenrothes - thinking about changing my prediction.
Complain about this comment
Derek #57
You are obviously not au fait with the 'classes'in the US. Middle class Americans are the equivalent of working class Brits. Yes, Obama is a new socialist as you will soon find out. He is America's equivalent of Robin Hood, increasing taxes on the wealthy to give to the poor. That was McCain's warning to voters throughout the campaign, that Obama would take their money through taxes and give it to the low paid. He will also introduce free health care for all. Do you think that sounds like Conservatism? No, I thought not.
Complain about this comment
"Downing Street insiders are hoping that, with Mr Brown's huge experience of ministerial office, he can become something of a mentor to the relatively inexperienced "leader of the free world"."
- oh I hope not ! Obama is an inspirational speaker and I hope leader - the last thing he needs a charisma free leader like GB to advise him
GB couldn't inspire anyone - his track record speaks for itself and while Cameron seems lightweight on occasion he at least is a break with this lot who have lead us in to false wars and economic crisis
Complain about this comment
86 Carrots
Thanks for posting your link
More good fun
If anyone watches Daily Politics Experts Verdict on this link - then they will have noticed Nick say that the media will now be scrambling for the first photo of Brown and Obama.
Oh dear - it looks as if my post at 75 is starting to come true already.
Irrespective of occurrences - it looks like the media want a positive Brown and Obama love-in narrative running.
It is going to be sick making watching Brown basking in the glory whilst evading all the problems he has caused in the UK.
Given Obama doesn't even become President until January 20th we've already got 3 months of media driven Brownand Obama love in to stomach.
Then there will be a few months more after Obama gets the keys to the Whitehouse and Brown and Obama have "official discussions"
That is 5 or 6 months of unwarranted good news for Brown.
The desperation behind the move to bring Mandelson back is now clear. Brown had to stop the Labour plotters and needed only to buy just enough time to survive until the US elections - before he Brown could hide behind the Obama honeymoon.
Complain about this comment
JC @ 92
Hey, your little "Have Your Say" snippet about Brown c.f. Obama is up in lights on the PMQ page, did you know that? ...
(Jonathan Cook, Hampshire no less)
Complain about this comment
what a shame
Complain about this comment
89 Sagamix
I don't know - last time I was able to find any news - it looked like Labour might just edge Glenrothes.
Timing Glenrothes just after the US election was very clever. I guess we are seeing what Mandelson and Campbell are helping Gordon with.
Even if Labour lose at Glenrothes - the whole story will be masked by the US election. I can't see Glenrothes causing Labour too much sweat - the media are now thirsty for a positive Brown and Obama narrative.
Labour will continue to get a soft ride in the media until April / May I reckon.
Complain about this comment
re: 69 skynine
True, and that was something which I think Campbell brought about back in 1997.
The problem is that the bbc, if it was doing its job properly, would simply turn around to the government after that kind of blackmail with an attitude of:
"ok, if you're not willing to give us your side of the story when a story comes out, and you're not willing to tell us what you're doing, then we're going to assume the worst case scenario and paint you as the villains on every aspect of your party/government business."
Trouble is, then the government will counter-blackmail the counter-blackmail with a threat to the license fee, and I think that's the crux.
The point is that if the bbc was commercial then they could easily counter the labour blackmail, but as they're dependent on the license fee they're beholden to labour and can't tell people the truth even if they wanted to (which they don't).
Privatise the bbc and call an election; let's get back some of our lost democracy before it's too late.
(fancy dress guy fawkes's arrested today under terrorism legislation because the government didn't want to look unpopular/silly; I'd like my country back please labour before you destroy it completely)
Complain about this comment
#92 jonathan_cook
I reckon Mandleson's been brought back to make a start on running the election campaign for Gordon. As the Labour party have no funds, the good old british taxpayer will be put upon to fund all the parties' campaigns. How long before this gets an airing in the Commons?
Complain about this comment
"In the first state, man and sword become one and each other. Here, even a blade of grass can be used as a lethal weapon. In the next stage, the sword resides not in the hand but in the heart. Even without a weapon, the warrior can slay his enemy from a hundred paces. But the ultimate ideal is when the sword disappears altogether. The warrior embraces all around him. The desire to kill no longer exists. Only peace remains."
-- Hero (2002), King of Qin.
Complain about this comment
93 Sagamix
Yeah - you spotted me!
Complain about this comment
In my opinion, we English lost our way when we lost America and we should try to find that place again.
Where is our Obama?
Somebody has to step up and light the English political path.
Preferably a person who, like President-elect Obama, has a coherent vision of a society where the majority of the people are pulling in the same direction.
We English need to find that person - and I'm certainly not thinking of Simon Cowell's X-factor politician - we've had already that with Mr. Blair!
PS. President-Elect Obama's children have been promised a puppy who needs to be named - might I suggest - inspired by our grovelling politicians - it be named lapdog.
Complain about this comment
Congratulations to the US voters for deciding on a new direction.
I remember when we decided on change in this country, back in 1997. Remember the mood of optimism that swept the country? Sleazy old tories out, labour back in with a young leader at the helm. A novice in terms of experience but he was a good orator and a friend of the camera.
11 years on and can anyone genuinley say their lives are any better? I can think of lots of things that have got a lot worse; high taxes, compensation culture, immigration out of control, a surveillance state that has trampled on our freedoms, etc. Everyone I know is throughly fed up with the spin-obsessed labour and their expensive failures in social engineering.
It hasn't all been bad, of course, but how I wish we had dull Major in charge with prudent Ken Clarke in charge of the economy; a chancellor who didn't allow the housing/debt bubble to get out of control and kept public spending within reasonable limits. A government just running the country rather than trying to run our lives. Government ministers that lied about having extramarital affairs rather than lying to us about the true state of the national debt.
Here's wishing the Americans better luck with their choice, and I hope that in years to come they are still glad they made that choice.
Complain about this comment
#94 sagamix
My heart bleeds.
Complain about this comment
What ever is happening now I am glad that I lived to see a Black Man become the next President elect, Otis Reading said it 'It's been a looooong time coming, but we know change gonna come'
Well here it is change has come, and may the protection of the higher spirit be with President Obama and his family during his term in office.
Complain about this comment
Yes time for change. But not any change.
The right wing idea of the desirability of a lightly regulated free market has hit the buffers spectacularly. Their foreign policy consisting of a fear driven "war on terror" is facing the reality that the military action in Afghanistan is provoking a reaction in Pakistan as well as Afghanistan, which is making things worse.
Time for a change indeed, but to the left, not back to David Cameron's neo Thacherism.
Complain about this comment
Perhaps, the media is getting a clue that they need to get over themselves. A better quality and less ratings concious media would be more satisfying and, paradoxically, grow circulation figures.
The Tories will still try to be clever and chummy but, deep down, they know they've blown it and have a similar process to go through themselves, and I can pick up on that in the Tories in here.
Both America and Britain have structural issues or, as I've put it before, the Anglo-Saxon model has broken fundamentals. But, that's fixable with a bit of kung-fu. Labour get this but the Tories aren't there yet.
Obama had an Asian upbringing. He gets subtle and society in a way that the right wing don't. Plus, he comes from a disadvantaged class and was raised by his grandmother. This means something.
Welcome to the future.
Complain about this comment
Gosh - look what I found burried away...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7709579.stm
A UK political story.
Put up very late last night -- presumably so it would be swapmed by obama, and old news by the time that passed...
Mandleson still being called on to answer questions about Oleg..
Did you see that one Nick? What do you think?
Should I ask peston about it on his blog?
Complain about this comment
PS. President-Elect Obama's children have been promised a puppy who needs to be named
Wasn't it Mongomery who called his little dog 'Rommell'? Obama should name his dog after his vanquished political rival.
'Hillary' it is then.
Complain about this comment
Nick could you please move this blog to Labourhome. Many thanks
Complain about this comment
It is really good that there are swing voters - people who think about who is most suited to run the country. Most of the people posting comments are party loyalists (I changed this from bigots) who will interpret everything in a way that suits their point of view. They start with a conclusion and then find reasons to support it.
Cameron, Clegg, Brown et al have all shown by their pathetic efforts to identify with Obama that they do not feel adequate to run our country. The way they have gone about congratulating Obama is no better than someone being photographed with Lewis Hamilton in the hope that people think they are a good driver.
What has this to do with swing voters? They dispair that our politcal parties provide career paths for the mediocrity of Cameron, Brown and Clegg. I mean, if the field were wider would you actually choose any of them to be Prime Minister?
Complain about this comment
So, on this historic day - perhaps the most significant since the introduction of universal manhood suffrage in 1918, David Cameron cant resist making a cheap political point about Gordon Brown ... what a little man he is.
Complain about this comment
Firstly, congratulations to Mr Obama. At last America has done something it can be proud of.
However, let's be clear. Obama won the election because he got massive support from blacks and hispanics, neither group having previously voted in significant numbers for any party. Had there been average turnout from these demographics, he may well have lost. So this is not a major shift in the tectonic plates in the U.S. The majority of male whites still vote republican and very few democrats would consider themselves to be socialists.
So any idea that this is somehow an endorsement of a socilaist agenda (which not even New Labour promote in this country) is plain wrong. Obama is a (small 'c') conservative with extraordinary abilities to motivate and inspire people. Whether he is any good at being president will take at least four years to become clear.
I wonder where Brown will now claim the cause of the credit crunch lies, since blaming it on the U.S. will clearly be off message. I'm sure he'd welcome any suggestions....
Complain about this comment
Brown has personally campaigned at Glenrothes -- if they lose despite this, then his position would be even less tenable than it already is.
However as his position is already completely untenable - I guess it can't sink any lower.
A bit like mandleson -- all the mud sticks, but you just can't see it on top of all the other layers - so he /seems/ to get away with it... (no shame).
Complain about this comment
There's a chance that Barack Obama will turn out to be a Clear Thinking Progressive like me ... that's rather exciting, isn't it?
But what is a CLP? Not always too easy to spot - I mean, some of us thought that Tony Blair was one, way back in 97 - I know, I know - for heaven's sake!
Luckily, I have a way of determining who is (and is not) a CLP. It really does work.
Q1: Are you in favour of a Fair and Prosperous Society (FAPS) ??
A - Yes I am!
B - No I'm not, sorry
A's go to Q2
B's STOP here - you are ER
Q2: To achieve FAPS, would you vote for the necessary measures where those measures disadvantage certain people but not yourself?
A - Yes of course I would
B - No, I wouldn't
A's go to Q3
B's STOP here - you are MHC
Q3: To achieve FAPS, would you go further and vote for the necessary measures even where they disadvantage yourself?
A - Yes I would!
B - Not on your nelly
A's STOP here - you are CLP!
B's STOP here too - you are AJ
So we just need the definitions now, don't we?
ER
... evil reactionary
You are the problem
MHC
... muddle headed centrist
You are not the main problem but you're a big part of it
AJ
... average Joe
You are still more part of the problem than the solution, I'm sorry to say
CLP
... clear thinking progressive!
You are the future. Congratulations are therefore very much in order.
Complain about this comment
It appears to have passed everyone by, but there is another election going on.
It may not be as big as the one in the U.S, but Glenrothes could be pretty important.
Is anyone going to report on it?
Complain about this comment
#106 therealtruth
Ooooohh we don't like to see that, now do we.......:-)
Complain about this comment
People say they want a leader but all the sages say this is a phantom. Really, one just needs to let go of all that absurdity about leaders and society, and allow the genuine person inside to get some air.
I've made a few comments and read a few books that look hauntingly familiar when Obama's speeches are analysed, and Cameron's just trying to fake it. So, the real test remains delivery and capacity.
The 'novice' line had its place but things have moved on and the issue of mastery, or "getting it" versus "faking it" swims into focus. Indeed, as the Chinese say: "The difference between a genius and a fool is less than the width of an atom".
Complain about this comment
I remain unconvinced the black man and the Brown man can do business. I think David Cameron sits well with Obama. Both young (some say novices!!!). Both elected overwhelmingly by the people. Wait and see.
Computer game it aint. It's called real life.
Complain about this comment
Well done Obama. Now let's have an election here and drive the stake through Brown's black heart at last...
It certainly is time for change...
Complain about this comment
re: 114, greydalesman
Not the biased BBC.
Complain about this comment
Miliband today on Radio 4
"Obama has shown that Afghanistan and Pakistan are linked problems that need to be approached together."
Is Miliband so ignorant that he didn't already know that?
Complain about this comment
sagamix @ 113
What the blazes are you chuntering on about?
And what on earth is a CLP?
CTP you mean, surely ... don't give up the day job if I were you.
Complain about this comment
#103
"Otis Reading said it 'It's been a looooong time coming, but we know change gonna come'"
Actually it was Sam Cooke and it was "I" not "we". The song is directly about seggregation. Played it again today and it still brings a lump to my throat...
Obama quoted the lyrics directly in his speech.
#104
"Time for a change indeed, but to the left, not back to David Cameron's neo Thacherism."
Cameron is many things, some of them politically unattractive, but not a neo-Thatcherite. He's way to the left of Brown on many issues - so what does that make Brown?
Complain about this comment
Really, one just needs to let go of all that absurdity about leaders and society
Yeah. There's no such thing as society.
Don't eat the yellow snow
Let go, grasshopper.
Complain about this comment
Well, it was inevitable that there would be a new president - hurrah all round.
BUT, wait, president doda of Russia has engineered a statement that he will deploy missiles close to Poland, and a little too close to the UK, just on the day of celebration.
So, here we go, Obamah is going to be faced with a nuclear face-off before he hits the ground and gets running.
What's new - nothing. We lurch from one crisis to another, but Doda will outlast Obamah by 2 years - keeping the tension up.
I'm old. I want peace. We will not get it. Things will get worse.
I see only gloom.
Complain about this comment
113 Sagamix
mmmm interesting 4 catagories:
The Inner Party
The Outer Party
Proles
Unpersons
Whats the date again?
Complain about this comment
121. At 5:49pm on 05 Nov 2008, sagamix wrote:
sagamix @ 113
What the blazes are you chuntering on about?
Are you being ironic, or you another of the doppelgangers that infest this blog?
Complain about this comment
Why does the media keep repeating that America and the world is changed because Obama is a black man?
Surely it is the man himself, his policies, talents, interaction with the American public, etc. they should be talking about.
Did all those people vote for him just because of his colour? Hmmmm.
There is a danger of going over the top and actually creating more racial tension by giving it such focus.
Complain about this comment
123. yes I agree. No such thing as society Chuckwick.
Man he snake in grass he talk forked tongue. He clicky the mousey and takey the cashy.
America is a very strange place. They will calm down eventually. Please.........
Complain about this comment
Time for Change eh PTTP and others.
And exactly what will we be changing too when Camron is elected.
Can any Tory on here give an answer without mentioning Brown/Labour?
Will it be a a thriving market driven economy without the shackles of over regulation to stifle wealth Creation?
Will it be tighter regulation?
Will the "fuel equaliser" be introduced straight away or icked into the long grass now that it looks embarrassing?
Is it still Patients Passports (people have been quite fond of quoting from embarrassing manifesto rhetoric lately?
Is it still vote blue get green?
Is it still Conservative and Unionist (except when we want to support the SNP in bi-elections)
So lets here it Tory Boys try to be positive just say what the changes will be (no ref to Brown)
Complain about this comment
#127
Flamepatricia,
I suggest you brush up on the civil rights movement of African Americans.
Have you any idea of the America of the past?
Free at last, Free at last.
Complain about this comment
U9461192 @107 wrote:
"Obama should name his dog after his vanquished political rival.
'Hillary' it is then."
Poor Bitch. Imagine the embarrassment of being named after a politician.
Complain about this comment
I dont know if anybody noticed but almost the last item on tonights news, after the overkill on the US election was that a British soldier died in Helmand today, fighting supposedly for us. It would have been decent of the BBC to have given it a bit earlier acknowledgement. This however seems to be something else which has to be given a low profile these days.
Complain about this comment
oldnat @ 126
Are you being ironic, or you another of the doppelgangers that infest this blog?
Neither of those - just feeling a bit lonely and talking to myself.
What, you think some people on here post under multiple names?
That's quite interesting - who do reckon might be doing that, then?
Complain about this comment
in political circles there are only the young new forward thinking becouse no polititian wants to be listed as old or stuck in a rut.
so its amusing for these polititians to clap each other on the back one second then kniving each other the next second.
how long before members of there own parties beguin to dig at them, any bets on that.
mr obama is taking over at a time of strife and will need more than just fancy rhetoric to solve his countries problems he will have to work far harder than he thinks to achieve his aims.
the same will be true in the uk once we have a general election, reguardless who wins they will have to solve the problems caused.
i for one can only hope the americans have apointed the right man at the right time if not they will suffer much like we here are suffering a poor choice.
only time will tell, so forget the platitudes and get on with the job.
Complain about this comment
carrots @ 125
What's the date again?
Oh okay then, the old ones are still the best, I suppose. So let's type it one more time for the boys ... here we go ...
It's a Warning not an Instruction Manual !!!
There.
Complain about this comment
Although I favour the Republicans, the success of Obama brought tears to my eyes. Watching TV, I saw many elderly black men and women who had obviously lived through many bitter times. I recalled the Second World War, and how even the USA armed forces, under General Eisenhower, demeaned and humiliated the black troops. I recalled how seperate days, if separate halls were not possible, were used for dancing and other social occasions involving local girls and black or white forces. Perhaps a new day has really dawned, a chance for a better future for everyone.
Here, alas, Nu Labour continues on its sour and bitter way. Hazel Blears, the Communities Secretary, blames political blogging for fueling a culture of cynicism and pessimism. The adaptly named Blears, states "Political blogs are written by people with distain for the political system and politicians". Surely this is a perfect example of wanting to kill the messenger. Maybe Blears would like to take on an additional position as Moderator in Chief. Heaven help us!!
Complain about this comment
# 83 solpugid
If the Glenrothes by-election is so unimportant, why was Sarah Brown despatched to canvas?
And why did the Prime Minister, against all precedent, also visit Glenrothes?
It would seem that Glenrothes IS NOT irrelevant.
Complain about this comment
Thanks to Labour's whims and caprice
It looks like we'll never have peace.
They spilled guiltless blood
And now can't hold back the flood...
Will their illegal wars ever cease?
Complain about this comment
re: 136, phoenix
Seen Guido's rebuttal of the awful Blears? It's spot on.
Complain about this comment
max @ 131
Poor Bitch. Imagine the embarrassment of being named after a politician.
Even better, imagine if he'd beaten Wanda Clinton in the primaries and now his daughters were getting not a puppy but a guppy as a pet!
That would be quite funny, wouldn't it Max?
Complain about this comment
I don't know how Broon thinks he's going to connect with Obama.
Obama stands for change, whereas Broon is wedded to the status quo and, in some ways, to old labour traditions.
Obama comes with no baggage, and a mandate to think the unthinkable in some key areas, whereas Broon is hemmed in by his and Bliars actions, specifically in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Following the election Obama has congress on his side, so the good old pork barrel effect is diluted, na dhas at lest 4 years to get his strategy right, whereas Broon has got about 18 months, and can't rely on anyone.
Who needs who, I wonder? And what might it cost?
Yoh, Gordo!
Complain about this comment
sagamix @140,
Sorry - My brain cells have gone to sleep: I didn't get the reference ..... :-(
BTW: Good call on (about) 160 electoral college votes for McCain. I think he ended up with 162).
Any calls on the result of the really important election? (Glenrothes)
Complain about this comment
Fish called Wanda - oh why do I bother?
SNP by a couple of thousand is where I am now.
Not at all sure though - could still go either way.
Complain about this comment
Gotta hand it to you, C_E_H, you really wind me up...
I didn't mind when you said I was just negative, even though I'm a pretty positive kind of guy. (OK - not pretty. And the phrase sounds too post-Ecclestone Blairite to hold much water!)
You seem to take a very New Labour stance, where any criticism or comment which doesn't endorse a viewpoint just MUST be reactionary and wrong. The too familiar "I said it, therefore it must be right" stuff that hasn't really changed a lot for too many people's lives.
Couple of points...
105 Charles_E_Hardwidge wrote:
"Both America and Britain have structural issues or, as I've put it before, the Anglo-Saxon model has broken fundamentals. But, that's fixable with a bit of kung-fu. Labour get this but the Tories aren't there yet.
Obama had an Asian upbringing. He gets subtle and society in a way that the right wing don't. Plus, he comes from a disadvantaged class and was raised by his grandmother. This means something."
You bleat on about broken fundamentals. That seems fairly begative. I have no idea what you prefer to see (which would be poistive - but you never offer a synopsis).
Obama's Kenyan father abandoned his family. His mother married an Indonesian, so Obama spent five years in Indonesia, before moving back to Hawaii. I wouldn't call that an Asian upbringing.
In fact, an Asian upbringing seems more likely to encourage a "how can I do better" approach (not - how will my government make it better for me) than most of the garbage we get fed here in the UK.
I actually like the "feel" of Obama. Hopefully he can bring some new spark into the US political scene. I worry that he could be another JFK.
(Pray God not with the same outcome, but in terms of someone who had good ideas, but couldn't drive them through. After all, it was the much-disliked LBJ who brought Civil Rights legislation onto the statute book and was dragged into the Vietnam situation that JFK had kicked off.)
You posted that you were initially "pro- Hillary", then felt that McCain was the one to win.
Got that wrong. Big time.
Where does that leave all the other projective stuff?
116 Charles_E_Hardwidge wrote:
"... Really, one just needs to let go of all that absurdity about leaders and society, and allow the genuine person inside to get some air.
I've made a few comments and read a few books that look hauntingly familiar when Obama's speeches are analysed, and Cameron's just trying to fake it. So, the real test remains delivery and capacity."
Well, now. I completely agree with you that the real test remains delivery and capacity.
Brown had the levers of power, while Blair danced about on the organ. Brown pulled them and delivered huge amounts of tax-income to the Government.
Delivered what, exactly?
15+ per cent of children who are functionally illiterate and innumerate.
A credit-based bubble he could have stamped on (but chose not to, as all that spending created tax opportunities).
New power generating capacity to ensure the lights don't go out in ten years time? Well, no. That's too prosaic.
There is simply no correlation between politics in the UK and the USA.
Obama wants a broad health-care system based on affordable private insurance. Good idea. Been applied in some European countries. But not exactly an NHS, is it?
Some of his income-tax proposals seem to make sense. But they still pitch at levels that folk in the UK could never dream of. A high tax-band (38 per cent) at incomes of USD 150,000. Maybe you haven't noticed, but folks on this side of the Atlantic pay 40 per cent when income gets to around GBP 40,000. (That's about half the income of the proposed USA levels...)
And I rather doubt that Obama would introduce an attractive tax-break for the poorer, then pull the plug for the sake of a gesture.
Delivering a 10p tax-band was to be applauded. Pulling it away was crass stupidity. And unnecessary. It could have been adjusted, to ensure that only lower-income folk received the benefit. But that would have made Brown look like a complete prat.
We could't have that, could we, as he's the man with a vision.
Funny thing is that, had he shown any degree of flexibility, he could have avoided a short-term fix, which will keep on costing us for years to come. For the sake of his pride.
Brown seems much more relaxed, nowadays, because he's found a shield to deflect attention away from his profligate spending habits.
I have always been in favour of the delivery of good public services. Using reasonably paid people, doing reasonably sensible jobs. That means some reasonable parity with what comparable jobs and services would gain in a "paid by the disposable income" sectors.
The President of the USA is in no way comparable to the PM of the UK. In effect, he's the elected head of 50 independent states who have joined in a Federation.
He's more like the leader of a combined EU and single nation.
Do you think that Brown could campaign in Portugal, Greece, Poland and France if he insisted on speaking English?
I wish Obama a very successful presidency. Always liked the cut of his jib. (Maybe that's because I didn't really like the Clinton style. But has nothing to do with race, creed etc.)
Just hope that he doesn't have a talent for musical instruments... One saxophonist as a President we could accept as a populist expression.
I would guess that Brown plays the spoons...
Do you really think that Obama would stand for all the garbage that pours
Complain about this comment
C_E_H suggested that I should read Blears's speech.
"In a speech on political disengagement to the Hansard Society Ms Blears, who had a career as a local government solicitor before becoming a politician, complained that some Westminster colleagues live on "planet politics" and lacked real-life experience."
It is a little odd that a politician who was paid from council-tax payers' income should be concerned about gathering people with experience of the "real world" into the Parliamentarian fold.
Not exactly a "high-risk" job. The council gets income, regardless of the quality of service they deliver.
Which made it all the more stunning when some East Anglian council CEO talked about her's being a "high-risk" job, which justified a salary comparable to a private company. When was the last time that a bunch of disgruntled tax-payers marched on the Town Hall?
Good grief, don't these folk realise that in France (our closest neighbour), people actually do get uptight. And burn things, when they get upset. Or blockade things (illegal under EU law, but tolerated by French governments, as it only offends the British)...
It doesn't matter what background you have. But, once you start using tax-payers' money, you have to manage it as if it were your own.
That's the crucial failure over the last decade. It just ain't about "politics" it's about sensible delivery.
Complain about this comment
139. power_to_the_ppl wrote:
She really is awful. I do try to be unbiased, but seriously, what has she ever done that is half way useful to the country?
Complain about this comment
Before I sign off for the night and go to bed (it was a very short night last night), a profound thought struck me. It is November 5th, Guy Fawkes Night. When I was a lad, once the war was over, we celebrated in high style. Bonfires were lit on the bombsites, and fireworks were hurled through letterboxes (Jumping Crackers). All this was before Elf and Safety, yet I cannot recall anyone really getting injured. More kids seem to get knifed or shot today, than rascals blowing themselves up with Roman Candles or Catherine Wheels. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the real reason Guy Fawkes Day is deliberately dumbed down is because the powers that be are afraid the peasants may get over-excited and take things into their own hands. For starters, I can think of a few good guys! Good night.
Complain about this comment
Absolutely nothing on the by-election at Glenrothes. No spoken word, no written word.
A full report on analogue/digital television reception in south east Scotland though!
Complain about this comment
AH! Finally, at 7.30am. We are told there is a by-election at Glenrothes today!
Complain about this comment
The British can't execute. This is, mostly, a case of individual and collective performance anxiety. It's why I bang on about Zen.
Complain about this comment
The media (and politicians on both side of the pond) are making it sound like Obama got a huge majority of the vote; he didn't. He got a huge majority of seats, but only because they have a first-past-the-post system similar to ours.
He only won by less than 6 pct when it comes to the real (ie "popular") votes; if they had p.r. he would have only just scraped through.
His margin was pretty small, and when you consider that his advertising budget was massive compared to McCain's and that the media were constantly telling everyone to vote for him, and that the incumbent party had ruined the economy and started 2 wars, a margin of 6pct is actually really awful.
Remember that in 2000 Al Gore actually got more votes than Bush did, but because of the system not being proportional he lost the election despite getting more votes.
Complain about this comment
149 Jonties
Yes - the TV news slipped that out and devoted about as many words to the piece as your post at 149.
Yes I'm glad that Obama has won, but quite why the BBC Breakfast news team feels no need to conceal their glee and not appear impartial I don't know.
Complain about this comment
It looks very close at Glenrothes:
Bullish SNP
Downbeat Labour
I take the 'spin' on both these articles with a pinch of salt. I think the election will be very close.
The SNP are bullish only because they have nothing to lose by appearing confident. If they lose - they can still point out that they have shrunk Labours majority.
If Labour win or lose, their majority will have been eroded. Labour spin doctors will want to downplay expectations, since any slight improvement on those expectations can be signalled as the green shoots of a Gordon Brown turn around.
Complain about this comment
You have to really search for news in the UK at the moment don't you?! Here is some:
Some news
Complain about this comment
More on Glenrothes:
http://news.scotsman.com/politics/Obama-goes-to-Glenrothes-.4665973.jp
Complain about this comment
155:
And more:
http://www.theherald.co.uk/politics/news/display.var.2465971.0.Voters_choose_between_the_Brown_bounce_and_Salmonds_honeymoon.php
Complain about this comment
Before Obama won the Tory boys were full of glee as they rode the campaign of "change". Now it looks like the Republican's have shot their fox, and Obama and Brown are likely to form a fruitful partnership, suddenly, they're whining about first past the post and BBC bias. What a surprise.
It's been my big theory for a long time that the economic chaos of Africa and afro-American whining has damaged "Brand Black". Obama is no magic wand and a putz in his own way but a better focus can help route around procrastination, and there's benefits for energy production and new markets in Africa.
The long-term strategic development by Labour in Africa and bringing education to disadvanaged classes is a double-whammy that will help lead a charge in technology and trade that will grow opportunity and wealth creation in the near future. And it's that sense of vision which will turbo-charge the emergent global renaissance.
The mythology of the Tao and similar works discusses the great achievements of the ancients in hyperbolic terms. But, as people emerged from the mud to found civilisation, so people are stepping up a gear to deliver no less auspicious achievements. We live in a time where legends are made: this is history and we have a front row seat.
Don't need a credit card to ride this train...
Complain about this comment
Nick
I watched the news this morning hoping to see a report on the Glenrothes by-election.
Again, plenty of air time was given over to the aftermath of the American elections - Bill Turnbull and, I imagine, a full crew, have been sent to New York to ask people sitting in a New York diner what they thought of the outcome.
Nick - who has been sent to cover Glenrothes? There was a 30 second snip which told us the by-election was to be held today and not another word.
Come on, BBC - we all want to know what's happening. Give us the facts - PLEASE!
Complain about this comment
Searching for post Obama news in the UK:
The Government has estimated that the gold Gordon sold off would now be worth £5.7 Billion compared to £1.9 Billion he sold the reserves for.
House of Lords debate - do we have sufficient reserves given the current financial situation?
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Charles_E_Hardwidge @160 wrote:
Nice attempt at pretend "authority"
Jeez: physician heal thyeslf!
Complain about this comment
@ 150 (CEH)
The British can't execute.
That's to do with our cult of individualism. Over here, people are always trying to stand out - that's far more respected than being content to be a cog in the wheel.
There's good and bad to that, obviously - like it helps our creative scene I'd say, on balance - but it means we struggle on major projects.
For example, we could never pull off an opening ceremony like the Chinese did for the Olympics - not because of money but because, in our case, somebody would always be wanting to break ranks and run around on their own. Probably start waving to their mum or something. Maybe take their clothes off.
As I say, not always a bad thing but not helpful when you're (say) looking to deliver quality public services within a challenging budget.
Not a left vs right political point, this - more about the balance between collectivism and the individual.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
You lefties do realise that both US parties are conservative don't you?
Obama is conservative -- just a wet conservative; whereas McCain was dryier.
America is a victory for conservatism over socialism which ever party the president comes from - socialisms equivalent was the now defunct USSR (although they are working hard to model the EU to replace it).
Complain about this comment
This is not possible. Attempting to fix yourself just makes things worse. Zen is not what you do but not not what you do.
The Christian scriptures comment on the perfection of God, the world, and people but ego gets in the way and distorts the presentation.
Let it go. Let it flow. Execute.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Interesting discussion with Michael Blastland on the Today programme this am - basically saying that Politicians won't admit they don't know the answer to questions for fear of appearing weak and won't admit that all policies have losers as well as winners.
10p tax is the most obvious of these, as was stated in the discussion, but the other main example, school league tables, is a classsic example of why I don't trust New (as opposed to Old) Labour.
Labour ministers were told time and time again by educationalists that league tables had little or no educational value and would only reinforce middle class privilege and paranoia about losing that privilege. One suspects that that was the reason why the went for them, not a factor they considered but decided other priorities overrode them.
It's about the illusion of "choice" that Blair, Blears et al prate on about. Unless they are paying, parents don't choose schools, schools choose parents. And even fee paying schools weed out the kids who are not going to do so well when GSCE and A level comes along, to bolster their results.
Complain about this comment
U @ 165
He needs to be totally annihilated in 2010. The country deserves nothing less and neither does the Labour party.
Not really because then we'd get the Conservatives and they are unfit for office. It'd be like going back to mullets and Blue Nun. They're a joke.
No, what we need is Brown to be replaced by a clear thinking leader from the progressive left and then (yes!) a Labour landslide would be good news for everybody, even U.
Not holding my breath though.
Complain about this comment
28 January 2008, Davos, Switzerland (before Obama was elected)
David Cameron last night risked political isolation in Washington as he broke diplomatic convention by backing a candidate in the US presidential race
11 September 2008, London, England
Embarrassment for Brown as he backs Obama
5 November 2008, London, England (after Obama was elected)
Cameron and Brown hail Obama win
Which party has strong links with the Republican Party and their agenda (deregulation, tax cuts for the rich, abolishing inheritance tax, small government)?
Which party has strong links with the Democratic Party and their agenda (importance of regulation, fair and progressive taxation, acknowlegement of a big role for Government)?
Which of the two has more credibility when they say they are pleased Obama won?
Cameron wearing his flip-flops again I think!
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
When everyone else was merely talking I laid real money on John Reid and Margaret Beckett to win the leadership contest. I think, that was the correct choice but you deal with the cards you're dealt.
I still have a bet riding on a Labour win at the next election. Again, that's the correct choice if the long-term trends are weighed, and if Labour continue developing along those lines they should win strongly.
Betting on individual outcomes always carries a risk but I've got the big decisions right and have an overall success of 90%. That's not bad but the 10% error does tend to drag the net gain down.
It's not in my nature to do it but trimming the ambition and putting more emphasis on polishing will reduce that 10%. I'd like to get the error down to 1%. This is a question of focus. Do one thing right, etcetera.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
161:
Plainly The Mods don't like me quoting The Scotsman and The Scottish Daily Herald with reference to Glenrothes. Not too sure why because they let it go yesterday.
Complain about this comment
No, what we need is Brown to be replaced by a clear thinking leader from the progressive left
What's this 'progressive left' chaff? A NuLabour rebranding? We've had NuLabour - same as OldLabour. Borrow a fortune, squander it, employ legions of no-good-niks on the state payroll, bankrupt the country.
The 'progressive left' with the same career waster who tramped through the lobbies to give us 42 day detention without charge and ID cards are emphatically NOT who we need to be putting our faith in.
What we need are NOT this lot. They have destroyed the UK economy for a generation. Again.
That's the annoying bit. They did it in the 1970's and they told us they'd changed. They had this great manifesto in 1997 that promised so much. We had so much hope. We'd done the austerity bit under Thatcher. The country was on its feet. We were just fed up of that sneering Portillo and their lies - promising not to increase taxes prior to the 1992 election (couldn't hurt they thought - no hope of getting elected) and then, after their suprise re-elction promptly increasing taxes.
And then they (Labour) went straight out and destroyed the economy all over again.
Oh God nooooooo!!!
Picture Charlton Heston in front of the half buried Statue of Liberty. That's how I feel about this government. They had it all. They had so much goodwill. They inherited such a good economy. And they blew it. And took us all down with them.
It's a tragedy. Another generations hopes and aspirations dashed on the rocks of utter incompetent leadership and self-mutilating doctrine.
Complain about this comment
Not really because then we'd get the Conservatives and they are unfit for office.
I'm slightly more concerned with the bunch who are in office at the moment who are 'unfit for office' to be honest. Screaming Lord Sutch may be 'unfit for office' but it doesn't really matter since he's not in office.
Nope. The key thing is to get out of office the ones who are actually occupying the office and demonstrably 'unfit for office'. If necessary we could manage without government at all - just set the civil service on auto-pilot doing whatever they do and have no laws passed for a decade or so. It couldn't possibly be a worse outcome than having this bunch of clueless, arrogant, incompetents running about, trying to look busy, destroying stuff.
Could it. Really.
Complain about this comment
#176 sicilian
Thanks for that.
Now I've got the links I can check Glenrothes out for myself. It'll be over before the Beeb gets its act together.
Complain about this comment
174 Charles_E_Hardwidge
I doesn't surprise me that you are also a phenomenon in the betting world - as well as your many other interests.
Given the percentage return achieved by betting professionals you must be a very wealthy man.
Beers are on Charles!
Complain about this comment
168. At 09:30am on 06 Nov 2008, RobinJD wrote:
Well I've heard it all now; Hazel Blears complaining about nihilisitc blogging against newlabour and their wonderful ideas.
What are we to expect The blogosphere to be regulated? Where does this woman think she lives? This is not China, this is a free country. It already is moderated to avoid people causing personal offence; apparently that's not enough as for Hazel and her minions it's an offence merely to disagree with them.
RobinD you hit the nail on the head! I've also written here outraged at her arrogance. Still, the person is aptly named, check out a good dictionary and you will see what her name means!
Complain about this comment
I've commented on this sort of thing before and most of what's in Hazel Blear's speech looks like it's been lifted. She's right to raise the issue but implementation matters.
Some of the extreme blogs and comments probably should be nuked. Existing law can deal with that. It's nothing new and quite ordinary. Nothing to be alarmed about.
The real focus should be on raising the profile of high quality blogs, encouraging good content and attitudes in the middle tier, and increasing accessibility to good tools and skills at the bottom.
Problem solved.
I think, you might want to take a step back and look at goals versus your own ego. Getting Labour into a winning position matters more than your "freedom" to mouth off. You know, that giving up what you want for the greater good thing you keep banging on about?
Labour has its issues and the Tories are in denial, but one hairline crack is all it needs for the Tories to be over Labour like a rash, and they'll blow it into a chasm and you'll be back where you started. If you're a klutz you'll fire off all over the place but, really, it's better to say nothing.
The Tories get management and presentation, and Labour get creativity and society. Both parties have their issues which is why developing the centre is important. Both parties have their leaders and wings who will scream and footdrag all the way. They know who they are.
Complain about this comment
Chuck_E @174 wrote:
"When everyone else was merely talking I laid real money on John Reid and Margaret Beckett to win the leadership contest."
What - both of them?
Not very convinced of your assessments then, eh?
Please do tell us about the other 18 'big decisions' that you did get right (to make up the 90% score you claim).
Complain about this comment
Talking about yourself, again? 'Eaton Rifles' asked if any Tory boys had any policies they'd stand up for without slagging anyone off. We're still waiting.
C'mon, if you think you're hard...
Complain about this comment
Ha ha
Complain about this comment
Labour has its issues
Yeah. Everything they touch they destroy. It's a gift from Satan.
Complain about this comment
#168 RobinJD
I think the really stupid bit is her complaining that bloggers wanted to 'identify fraud, conspiracy' etc...
Err... well whats wrong with that? I want such things identified...
Why doesn't she want such thing identified?
Maybe she resents people doing for nothing, something that the state could spend tax payers money on.
Complain about this comment
I don't bet or play the stock market. This was a one off to challenge all the people who were mouthing off at the time but who are never around for the counting.
I've commented on a high hit rate and how the margin of error drags the net gain down. If you want to abuse that it's not worth talking to you.
Complain about this comment
Brown is fast becoming sickening to watch, his smugness and shameless glee at suggestions of him 'saving the world' to Brown's absolute failure to recognise his major contribution and encouragement to the UK's massive debt both individual and government is disgusting.
And for him to try and associate himself with Obama, someone who is inspiring, did not support Iraq war, has clear determination and drive, was decisive, prepared and fought hard against all odds in an ELECTION has shown strong leadership in his campaign and of his team.
Where as..
Brown is uninspiring, 'did support Iraq war', has no confidence in his own 'vision' for our future, has no conviction lacks leadership has a very weak team around him, is indecisive, he is too scared to call an Election, will not listen and ignores the British public, breaks manifesto promises, is wholly focused on himself and self preservation
Brown = morally bankrupt.
Complain about this comment
It's a tragedy. Another generations hopes and aspirations dashed on the rocks of utter incompetent leadership and self-mutilating doctrine.
Talking about yourself, again?
I'm talking about the millions about to be thrown onto the dole queues as a result of this incompetent governments mismanagement of the economy. I'm talking about the millions who are in collossal debt, encouraged to do so by artificially low interest rates engineered by this government for the express purpose of encouraging a consumer BOOM
I'm talking about the millions who are soon to be in negative equity. Trapped in homes they felt confident to buy, misled for a decade by the 'no more boom and bust' moonshine of Brown.
But, as your previous offering (#182) reveals, when you put the feng shui to one side, it's not about competence or integrity. Its all about power for its own sake:
Your words...
'Getting Labour into a winning position matters more than your "freedom" to mouth off.'
By their words shall you know them. Grasshopper.
Anybody still complacent about ID Cards and 42 day detention without charge?
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
You would say that given you're one of the worst offenders whose account and IP address would be nuked on any well run forum. You're a busted flush and I get the feeling you know it. Guido is no different. He'll fall soon enough - they always do.
Complain about this comment
Chuck E @192 wrote:
"You're a busted flush and I get the feeling you know it. Guido is no different. He'll fall soon enough - they always do."
Hmmm... Guido is the UK's most famous and influencial political blogger.
And you are..... what exactly?
Complain about this comment
Let's consider the counter-factual - what would our politicians be telling us had Mccain won the American election.
Cameron would no doubt be telling us that it is a triumph for Conservative ideals of deregulation, low tax on the rich and small government, even in an era where that approach appears to have led us to financial catastrophe. It would, no doubt, show that it is Cameron's ideas that are the ones that the UK should be following.
Brown would be telling us how it shows the importance of experience at such a crucial time for the world economy - "No time for a novice". He would be playing down Labour's links with the Democrats (and disappointment of another 4 more years of trying to work with the Republicans - even a watered down version of what we saw in the Bush years).
Not sure what Clegg would say.
Posters on this website would be telling us how Mccain getting elected by the Americans is a bad thing for Brown and shows how irrelevant his progressive ideals are in the world.
Complain about this comment
By "winning position", I mean winning in the qualitative and relevant sense, not the meaning that first leap to your mind. Again, you're talking about yourself.
I don't read Guido and pay even less attention to you.
Complain about this comment
Charles_E_Hodgepodge @195 wrote:
"I don't read Guido and pay even less attention to you."
But you just did.
(And you always do - Chuck - otherwise why would you refer my posts for moderation so often?)
Complain about this comment
#176 sicilian29
Partisan comments may break the special house rules for polling day see:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/messageboards/newguide/elections.shtml.
On Glasgow East polling day the Brian Taylor threads were closed because too many were breaking the rule. Tread warily until 22:00 GMT
Complain about this comment
137
Yes, but it is just a bit irrelevant to Senator Obama wouldn't you say? America's first black president doesn't surely impact on the Kingdom of Fife? Of all the politicians' claims to moral ownership of the Senator's victory, the absurd Salmond's is surely the most far-fetched and risible. When I mentioned 'the two UK political leaders' you surely didn't think I included him?
Actually you make my point for me, so I'll leave it. Yes, the world out there.
Complain about this comment
Gordon Brown is doomed to fail in his quest to gain kudos and respect by association with Barack Obama. It's not as if he's just come onto the scene after all. Rather he will be lumped together with George Bush, the bankers and the financial analysts who all failed to see the impending credit crisis coming and neglected as a result to take the necessary steps to mitigate it. Barack Obama and David Cameron share the role of blameless bystanders. Both will now be charged with the task of clearing up the mess that has been partly made by their opponents. It's an enormous ask and to be honest I think it should have been down to the present negligent encumbents to clear up their own mess and then if necessary die by the electoral sword if they failed.
Complain about this comment
#198 solpugid
We're in agreement. There is a world out there. I was merely pointing to other relevant current news within the UK which was being side-lined by the blanket coverage of the US election.
Complain about this comment
U @ 178
If necessary we could manage without government at all
If that were an option, I might seriously consider it. Unfortunately the choice is going to be Brown or the BTP and that's (almost) a no brainer. It'd be a total no brainer if, instead of Brown, we could have one of the many talented Labour women as PM - you know, Hazel or Harriet or Yvette - any of those would be great news, don't U think?
Complain about this comment
No I don't think. Sorry and all that!
Complain about this comment
Any honeymoon between the anti-war
movement and Obama will be short-lived and may not even reach the
honeymoon suite! Look who he has picked for head of staff - Rahm Emanuel -
served as a volunteer in the Israeli army and is a right-wing warmonger.
See Obama has now started making his appointments. This could be quite interesting.
Complain about this comment
Gordon Brown didn't meet with Barack Obama last Summer because he was afraid of rocking The Hilary Clinton boat. Now that Obama is President Elect he is frantically attempting to build bridges. Whether or not he is successful remains to be seen.
Complain about this comment
Are we supposed to keep silent for the sake of a decaying government?
Well spoken George... yes the obvious...
The Ppesent governmet have devalued the family, devalued the education system, devalued the banks and are now devaluing the pound by massive borrowing.
If you borrow and borrow who in the banking world will lend a person money.. surely the same is true in the world economy!
Complain about this comment
I agree with Solomanbrown. However Osborne had a good run on the back of Browns dithering, but he made a huge mistake whilst on holiday, not once but several times. Now he's blabbing about a run on the pound and how all this borrowed money will have to be paid back to the poor hard pressed tax payer. Who will pay the tax payer for the cost of Iraq and Afghanistan, the illegal immigrants who can't be deported. Better to bring Davis Davis in as Shadow Chancellor.
Complain about this comment
View these comments in RSS