Back to the future again
"Eee, I'll go to the foot of our stairs." Forgive me, for that's what they say in Macclesfield when they're gobsmacked, and I'm gobsmacked.
Peter Mandelson is back. Gordon Brown, for so long said to lack courage and to be unwilling to reach out to his enemies in the Labour Party, has now confounded his Blairite critics by putting Mandy back into the cabinet.
"He's New Labour to his core, pro-business and tough on the unions. It will light a blue touch-paper under the government", one cabinet minister told me.
Expect a lot of gloomy faces amongst those on Team Brown who saw their life's work as opposing Mandelson and all those close to him.
PS. In case you've not seen, John Hutton moves from BERR (Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform) to Defence.
UPDATE 12:00: The moves we know so far are:
Peter Mandelson - to Business
John Hutton - to Defence
Geoff Hoon - son and grandson of railwaymen - to Transport
Ed Miliband - to new Department of Energy & Climate Change
Margaret Beckett - to be cabinet enforcer
Nick Brown - to be Chief Whip
I expect, but have not had confirmed, that Baroness Ashton will be off to Brussels to be EU commissioner. If so, a new Leader of the Lords is needed.
In addition, Gordon Brown's party spin doctor, Damian McBride, is being pulled back into the Downing Street backrooms. He's liked by political journalists but loathed by Blairites who dubbed him Damian McNasty and blamed him for malicious briefings on behalf of his boss. His replacement is to be Justin Forsyth, former Head of Policy and Campaigns at Oxfam, who was Gordon Brown's (and before that Tony Bair's) advisor on international development. Forsyth will be less matey and less gossipy with the press than McBride, and will reassure those who had demanded this change.
So, what's behind Gordon Brown's moves? The economic challenge, the strategic challenge and the threat to his position.
Downing Street are presenting this as a strengthening of the cabinet to face the economic crisis - drawing on Peter Mandelson's global experience and contacts whilst creating a new department to handle energy.
It's also clear that the PM wants political ballast - Mandelson brings huge strategic and presentational experience whilst Margaret Beckett has long experience of government and the stature to knock ministerial heads together.
Finally, and crucially, Brown is trying to shore up his position in the Labour Party. The message to the plotters is, in effect, if Mandelson is on my side, isn't it time you were? The people that founded New Labour - Brown, Blair (who's in regular contact with him), Mandelson and Alastair Campbell - are said to have put aside their differences to work together again.
I'm 
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Wow.
So you get sacked in disgrace twice, but its ok a couple of years in the wilderness and all is forgiven.
Talk about Sleeze!
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OOOh great just what the country needs Thrice sacked Mandy back, and given a place in the Lords at that, so we will never be rid of him
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I knew we would never get rid of him. No matter how many times that man resigned 'over a matter of principle' it was clear he didn't have any.
What do you actually have to DO to get fired for good from new labour?
Who elected him this time? Anyone?
ooops same true for Brown...
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Just a thought, but if Mandleson returns as a Lord, nobody will be able to vote him out at the next election.
He's one of the prime movers that deserves a 'portillo' moment and the great british public will be denied delivering it to him
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Hmmmmmm.....What I will say..IS...this
Mandelson will take Cameron to the cleaners on a PR position......
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Well, Brown is really scraping the bottom of the barrel now (pun intended!)
Desperate times need desperate measures.
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The time for safety first is over. Its bold moves or another "eighteen years" in the wilderness.
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If you listen carefully, you can hear the sound of barrels being scraped.....
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GB is scraping the bottom of the barrel now. Promoting one of his bitterest enemies...
Will this be remembered as "The day of the Long Knives"?
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I can only say that Brown has finally proven beyond all doubt that he is politically and morally bankrupt. Mandelson in a business enterprise role?? In any business,when you are sacked,it is terminal..no second chances in that organisation.So..the Prince of Darkness not only gets a second chance..but a third as well...it's scandalous!
If Brown has got such a poor reservoir of talent that he has to resort to this,it speaks volumes about the state of the PM and his Government.
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This is - using Stephen Fry's famous quip - a time for Countryside
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Is there so little talent left amongst Labour MPs that Dandy Mandy has to come back to shore up the cabinet defences?
Next we'll find that Gordon has found space for the Clinton's to help run the country.
As Southwold has said, "Gord help us"!
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Gordon Brown has given the Tories a boost they couldn't have wished for.
If the Labour Government's boast of experience means the return of old failures then it proves they can only offer more of the same rubbish.
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Talk about scrapping the barrel....
A government of all the grotesques.
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Again...I'm surprised no has mentioned the EU.....Hmmmmmmm
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Him again??
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it wouldnt surprise me if gordon brown didnt bring back others too it shows his ineptitude and how in reality he has no idea how to proceed, talk about jobs for the boys, over paid underachievers.
in my opinion and i know its extreem but labour seems riddled with missmanagement and ineptfools that will blindly follow the party line and chairman brown.
it appears indemic of party politics that any party that asumes power ultimatly falls over its own feet, and shows that to be honest party politics is corupt and has had its day, and that we the people of this little island deserve a better, fairer stronger government for the people by the people.
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Are they getting ready for a cut and run election on a "back me as the man of experience to sort out this mess" message?
Mandelson will the the first heavyweight cabinet member Brown has had
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Back for a third time like Whittington. Well at least they have the Christian name in common.
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Peter Mandelson's been very statesmanlike lately. His comments on leadership and presentation, and generally calm and conciliatory approach will be helpful. I’ve never voted Labour nor am I a member of the party, but I generally believe "the mission" is important. Mandelson can help secure that.
I've always stood for sound management and helped the little guy when I can, and taken a few bullets for that over the years. I'm deeply opposed to the thuggish and smarmy Tory party that's been surfacing over the past few days, and building a better Labour will help provide that more attractive alternative people need.
Note: It looks like my predication yesterday that Stephen Carter was going to be fired was wrong. I had been hoping Mandelson would return but that that was too bizarre a long-shot to mention. So, yeah. I'll chalk this up as a win.
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Why Mandy? Can we not call him by his real name, the blokey, sneering feminizing of his name says more about the writer than the written about.
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Brown has put the last nail in this sleazy governments coffin. How can he bring back Mandleson, as a minister,probley have to make him a lord. A big mistake has he will not have to answer to Parliament it self. It stinks its wrong and a damm disgrace.
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So Labour's Prince of Darkness returns for a THIRD time.
Just shows how desparate Gordon Brown has become if "Mandy" is now seen as his saviour.
As night follows day, two things will now happen.
1. Mandy will stab Gordon Brown in the back.
2. Mandy will be forced resign once more in disgrace.
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So let me get this straight, Brown brings Peter Mandelson a man who has TWICE had to resign because of scandals and he is couragous but when Cameron mentions Thatcher in his speach it is considered toxic?
Can you at least try to be impartial?
At least we can hope is Mandelson causes a split in the cabinet and then I am sure another scandal will be revealed by one of "Team Brown".
I don't much want to see the Labour party split itself apart but hopefully that will allow the Lib Dems the chance to step up as the official opposition after the next election.
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Pantomine season has come early. Can't wait to laugh at their expense when the infighting starts, if it hasn't already. Funny!
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If Mandy comes back and Hooh is in transport, who gets the Brussels Boondoggle?
Who is going to be the next EU lapdog to sell this country down the river?
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Gordon Brown's brain has officially exploded. I'd suspected as much for several years now but this has to be the final confirmation.
There was a lot of talk a couple of days ago about whether Cameron could ever rehabilitate Thatcher because although many of the Tory faithful think she's the best thing since sliced bread Labour has done incredible work maintaining the loathing for Lady Thatcher. So, as a means of galvanising the Tory faithful then 'fine'. But if you want to persuade a few Labour voters to jump ship or at least stay at home on poll day then parading the Iron Lady ain't the way to do it.
Kif kif Mandelson. You might persuade a few Nu-Labour types to turn out come polling day. But it will be nothing to the hoardes of 'traditional' Labour voters who will stay at home. Or the hoardes of Tory voters incensed to get out and finally drive a stake through his heart.
And what unique skills does Mandy bring apart from a shared experience with many of the currently shell-shocked property-owners of Nu-Labour' property bust as having quite a flamboyant approach to his own mortgage application form. Perhaps he will be uniquely placed to explain to Gordon Brown, from a personal perspective, how easy it was and how, in retrospect, his own behaviour might have given an early 'heads up' as to how this could all go wrong.
No doubt though Mandelson will be blaming the yanks with the best of them.
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So Labour are up in arms when a tory gets rid of a catastrophy-prone policeman, yet they resurrect Peter meddlesome and expect everyone to welcome him with open arms. Nice.
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Should be good for a laugh!
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Margaret Thatcher famously said, "Every Prime Minister needs their Willy". She was refereing, of course, to Lord Hailsham. At the risk of this post being nuked from orbit:
Every Blofeld needs their pussy.
Aw, man. That's going to upset EVERYBODY.
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Nice work if you can get it. How much longer are we going to put up with this look after your mates pack. Gordon Brown has done nothing to promote the public,s faith in the Labour party by this move.
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David Cameron could not have better news.
Mr Brown has pressed the self-destruct button twice more:
Labour support for the incompetent Sir Ian Blair (as judged by officers in his own force)
and
Re-incarnation of Mr Mandelson - Britain's most hated politician by far .
Just watch the polls!
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Smart move for Brown. Should kill off the Blairite push for a change of Labour leader. Enemies, tents and bodily functions spring immediately to mind.
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EU Trade Commissioner and UK Business - no conflict of interest there then.
When he moves back, who is going to sign the mortgage application form THIS time?
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Des Browne and Ruth Kelly leaving - is the opposition to the embryo research etc. the real reason?
No surprise in Kelly leaving Parliament - if you want to spend more time with your family in London, nursing a significant marginal in the North West doesn't equate. In addition it is almost certain she would have lost horribly!
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At this rate I would not be surprised if Tony Blair was brought back into the cabinet! How about Robert Mugabe for the Foreign Office?
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Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!....
Ridiculous!!!
I'm starting a campaign to bring back Ron Davies.........
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Oh good move there - not.
A man who private business will not touch with a barge pole in a business role.
I think the Labour Party is going to tear itself apart. He is an arrogant, self-centred individual with a flawed character.
David Cameron would do well to attack Brown on his judgement.
Wonder if Milliband will be happy.
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I have always liked Peter Mandelson (is that spelt right?) - perhaps this will happen to Sir Ian Blair, perhaps he will be back at a later date, particularly as Ms Smith has torn Boris off a strip for firing him, or forcing him to go. If PM is tough on unions, that's a good reason for him to be back; we also need someone who is tough on the power firms - have not had my heater on yet today, have another means of keeping warm. But PM cannot make things any worse then they are - can he?
IllustriousFrisby
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Mandelson has twice resigned from the cabinet, but now he's back. Perhaps third time lucky?
Mandy has no Mandate - as he has not been elected.
Poor Gordon is clutching at staws.
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"No surprise in Kelly leaving Parliament - if you want to spend more time with your family in London, nursing a significant marginal in the North West doesn't equate. In addition it is almost certain she would have lost horribly!"
We were just talking about this in our office - we were surpised that she didn't decide to hang around as she would very likely lose her seat at the next election.
Still resigning as an MP would look much better then a massive swing against you :)
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Gosh, someone has suggested Tony Blair to be back in office - then Labour WOULD win the next election, I miss TB alot. But Robert Mugabe - forget it. (Please!)
IllustriousFrisby
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32. At 10:40am on 03 Oct 2008, Charles_E_Hardwidge @32,
Hurrah Chuck!
Even you (previous post notwithstanding) cannot fail to see the amusingly grotesque nature of this politically bizarre move.
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It looks as if there has been some careful thought put to the Government cabinet reshuffle. It seems to me the split which apparently occured in the Labour Party after the election of Blair as leader has been the main cause of undermining Gordon Brown's authority over the party.
Jackie Smith is also to be congratulated on not interfering with the choice of the Metropolitan Police Commissioner to resign.
Careful thinking seems to be sadly lacking in the news that Boris Johnson has effectively forced the resignation of the Metropolitan Police Comissioner, making it worse by insisting it is not a political decision. No?!
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Another blow to democracy. When will Governments learn that we want elected politicans not technocratics nor imposed leaders.
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#22 CEH
"I had been hoping Mandelson would return but that that was too bizarre a long-shot to mention. So, yeah. I'll chalk this up as a win"
Tenuous Charles, very tenuous as always.
If Peter Mandelson is coming back, in whatever role, does this not weaken the "novices" argument? This seems to imply to me Brown has no faith in his alternative options.
On the upside, surely Mandelson will now be whiter than whiter in his new role, having twice before been compelled to quit in disgrace. We'll see!!
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Mandy - should have been nuked from oribt, its the only way to be sure.
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This is a strange twist, and a dangerous move just as Labour are beginning to win back support from the Tories.
The British people generally loathe Mandelson and with good reason - sacked in disgrace from the Cabinet TWICE, the man gives off an image of the sleaze of the Blair era.
If bringing back Mandelson - the architect of Blairism - is a sign of the direction that Brown wants to move in, then I agree with Mark_WE (post 26). A Lib Dem opposition is the best we can hope for.
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Eek! This is the biggest scare I've had in a while! Mandelson is like a zombie you just can't kill!
Run for your lives! He's undead!
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I am scratching my head over why any Labour supporter thinks this is a good thing. It's all very well pointing to Mandy's "experience", and the fact that he's a "political heavyweight". However, the public see him as a failed Blair stooge who *twice* resigned in disgrace. He's hated by Labour's core support, the very people Brown needs to turn out on polling day.
The "sleaze" factor, such as cash for honours and dodgy donations, had died down in favour of Gord's incompetence, this move manages to dredge it back up (and make Brown look *more* incompetent into the bargain). I'm beginning to think that Gordon *wants* to lose all his colleagues their jobs, probably in a fit of pique for them not getting him the leadership position earlier.
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Mandelson was despised in the EU as Trade Commissioner - I doubt he would have stayed there when his term of office expired.
Better to keep your enemies close then Gordon? Whoever next, Blair perhaps (I mean Tony of course!)
Cameron was criticsed for mentioning Thatcher!
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The British model tends to reward macho managers and zero loyalty. Cutting training, risk aversity, asset stripping, and hiring and firing are part of that noxious mix. The Japanese model tends to appoint, demote, or redeploy as appropriate. Another plus of the Japanese model is that any position tends to have a bunch of fully trained and experienced replacements beneath it.
Mandelson is able, loyal, and served a distinguished term as a European Commisioner. He's developed maturity and proven himself fit for purpose. I'm sure, the Prime Minister took a similar view, and Mandelson was gracious enough to serve when he was needed. This is very respectable and welcome.
There's more to the world than the pork scratchings and watered down beer the CBI and their Tory pals would offer you. If folks on the trash estates or serving crunchtime in some office can get a taste of something better, I think, the false promises of the Tories will lose their appeal. Only Labour can deliver that.
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is this a peace offering to Sarkozy ahead of the summit?
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With respect, most of these comments reveal just how little people really understand what goes on in our political parties.
Within the party, Peter Mandelson is recognised, along with Brown, Blair and Campbell as one of the creators of 'New Labour'.
Therefore, it is not too surprising, from that perspective, that he is back in Browns team, despite any personal antipathy, which is usually over-egged by 'those jackals' of the media.
However, what Mandelsons' appointment does reveal is the enormous gulf between the 'political professionals' and the rest of us.
That is, the public are not really factored into these decisions at all.
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As an unelected EU official, Mandelson recently told elected American politicians that they "had taken leave of their senses".
Many will take the view that Brown has just done the same.
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No room for Neil Kinnnock? Shame. It might be no time for a novice (sic) but surely it is no time for the old faces to come back with the old policies.
This is like appointing Joe Kinnear to run Newcastle United. What? That's already happened. Nurse, the tablets have worn off.
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Just imagine the look on Blairs face when he heard the news. Smug wont even begin to describe it.
Cameron must be laughing his head off.
Carry on Gordon, Im starting to feel Im getting my monies worth.
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The sums don't add up
and we've nurses to pay.
So we hid in the House
on that October Day.
I hid there with Sarah.
We hid there we two.
The treasury had told us
'We're basically screwed'.
Too firt to go out
Lest that protester chap
Remind us again
Of our war in Iraq.
And all we could do was
to try not to brick
And the voters were calling
us all 'Full of ..it'
And then something went 'Bump'
How that bump made us jump.
We looked and we saw him step
in on the mat.
We looked and we said
'That twit Mandelson's back!'
And he said to us
Why do you hide there like that?
I know that we're stuffed
And you've spent all the money
So let's tax something else.
And then squander it Sonny.
etc etc
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Adopt dour Scottish accent:
“Well you came and you gave without taking, but I sent you away, oh Mandy, well you kissed me and stopped me from shaking, I need you today, oh Mandy”
Never more apt…
Well, mockery aside, he's able and strong willed, so if he can keep clear of scandal he'll be an asset.
Who's going over to the EC? Hoon? Beckett? I'd quite like Charles Clarke. Brown and Clarke detest each other, but he's talented and likes working in Brux...
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CEH@22. Your powers of self promotion have exceeded themselves today.so,you hoped Mandelson would return..eh! But you couldn't say so...ever heard of hindsight being a wonderful science?
As for "thuggish and smarmy" Tories....have you ever had dealings with Mandelson?
In the many occasions I had the misfortune to deal with him,one phrase came to mind repeatedly.."thuggish and smarmy"..although I also added "arrogant,egotistic and thoroughly out of tune with business".
Wake up Chuckie..we all know you for what you are.
:-)
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This is a disgrace. No other word. The man is proven to be corrupt.
And to make him a lord. Where is this judgement Brown is supposed to have?
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Spineless Nick. Calling in the thought police
BBC thought police censoring comments again.
--
Has anyone actually voted for this three times failed Euro mincer?*
How can we get rid of this greasy boomerang?
* mincer of words
--
How does that break any house rules? I've gone out of my way to be pc.
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This is an excellent position for Peter Mandelson...
Partners in crime or what? For a Chancellor, now PM that has misled the British public year on year with his Budgets, to his "low" inflation rate, his 10 pence tax raid on the poor, his off balance PFI debt of £50 odd billion and rising etc, etc....
What better than a man who "forgot" about a massive loan from Robertson on his mortgage application. This was investigated as a criminal offence by the Met police. Mandelson has falsely claimed that he was cleared. Absolute rubbish. Quite simply he was never charged. A huge difference.
Just the man for a job in Gordon Brown's Cabinet.
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Out here in the countryside, Mandy is universally hated for his selling our interests down the river on the altar of the WTO. To see him back is the kind of insult we have come to expect from this government. It also shows clearly that they no longer care for their own credibility. The ennoblement is really just the final twist of the knife.
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So even though we are entering an extremely difficult economic times in the years to come because of the GLOBAL financial turmoil and GLOBAL recession, Labour is on the way up, while Cameron is on the way out.
According to the BBC analysts Cameron had the perfect time and situations to come up with bold solutions to the present GLOBAL crises and not just UK.
He did not deliver, as he has no idea of how to manage economic turmoil from abroad, he has not learnt anything from his personal mistake in dithering to advising Norman Lamont to stay in the ERM in September 1992, instead of getting out months before when it was very clear that the UK economy was yet again slipping into a deep recession.
Cameron should stick to the QC Glossy Magazine, as he has more talent to pose in front of a camera, then coming up with economic solutions behind a desk.
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"For my monster from the slab began to rise, and suddenly to my surprise..."
He became Business Secretary
[with apologies to Boris Pickett]
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re Charles comment in 32
Thatcher was referring to William Whitelaw with that statement - not Quentin Hogg.
In general, a sensible move which will bring the experience of an extremely talented politician into the government, and also stay the knives of his Blairite critics.
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Aren't there minimun standards for being enobled?
How can someone who had to resign from government in disgrace (more than once) qualify?
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# 49 Ilicipolero
You are right to point out the paradox.
Mandelson is no novice, but what does this tell us about Brown's faith in his current MPs?
If Brown has to bring (unelected) Mandelson in from outside, clearly he is not that impressed with the 'experience' of his current (elected) MPs.
If Brown doesn't trust his own MPs, why should we?
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The Japanese model tends to appoint, demote, or redeploy as appropriate. Another plus of the Japanese model is that any position tends to have a bunch of fully trained and experienced replacements beneath it.
And the Japanese model for their economy? Oh yeah, massive housing boom followed by 20 years of housing bust. Technically insolvent banks propped up by a snowballing deficit and a demographic crisis.
Mandelson is just another sentence in the longest political suicide note since Michael Foot's manifesto.
Labour are sooooo doomed. Too bad they brought us all down with them.
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Peter Mandelson: isn't this the guy that wasted a small fortune on that white elephant on the Thames - The Dome? And with the 2012 Olympics only four years away ...Heaven help us ...we really will be bankrupt.
Interesting though that he has recalled someone that could be a serious contender for his own job, and certainly someone who is a more effective communicator !!
Now that is a gastly thought; bring on the election quick.
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Is Brown on some sort of mission to ensure total and utter meltdown at the next election?
The rate he's going the won't be a Labour party left and he'll enter the history books as the most incompetent unelected PM (or even elcted PM for that matter) this country had the misfortune to bear.
DC must be having his sides sewn back up this morning.
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You can put lipstick on a pig! But it is still a pig!! And that's the problem here.
Whatever metaphore you want to apply to this desk-swap, the dressing changes but the core remains the same.
Brown has a problem - Brown. And Labour is exhausted after nearly 11 years of boom and now bust plus everything else they have done wrong.
This mess will only be sorted at the ballot box - the sooner - the better!
One final thing to remember is that eclipsed by the current economic problems are other items - for example the forthcoming hike in car tax!
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"oh Mandy, you came and you took without giving, but I sent you away, oh Mandy"
Talk about handing the Tories a gift. HA!
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Having listened to the World Tonight last night and heard the grotesque Ken Livingston accusing Boris's advisors of being anti islamic we now have a man who has resigned twice ( sacked) being brought back. Once again the labour party and Gordon Brown show just how unprincipalled and morally bankrupt they are. As another post mentioned, Labour are happy to defend an inept policeman who carried the new labour flag but when it comes to a man Mandelson all is OK
Roll on the election
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I am deeply dismayed by his appointment. All I can think of is that Gordon knows that the nation hate him, so he's taking his revenge by appointing even more people the nation hates. Gordon is really just taking the mickey now :(
Has dear Peter had any prior experience of business? And is there really no-one else that Gordon could have called on?
Mandelson used to hoover up all the freebies going when he was a Member of Parliament - no doubt he'll do the same in his new role.
Desperate, Gordon, really desperate.
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Well it's perhaps good to have the old slug Mandelson back, he does after all have some experience of the EU wide problems facing finance. Rather than the usually overly British centric view of many on the Tory benches who have probably never set foot in Europe for fear of experiencing foreigners and excellent food and wine.
I never liked Mandy but desperate times and all that, plus atleast he didn't go to the school of hard knocks that is Eton. Which seems to be what that Tories mistake for real life experience.
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Erm, hang on. How does that work? he's not even an MP!
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Oh my God, they are desperate. Mandeldome??? Maybe they've got some plan for him to sort out the mess that is the Olympics funding. Anyway, it hardly matters what they do now they're done for. It's still a shock though, I really thought we'd seen the back of him, he's got to be one of the most despised former New Labour ministers that ever prowled the squalid corridors of Westminster. To think I'm gonna have to put up with his face on the box until the election. It'll be difficult for me, how about you Nick? You might have to interview the scallywag. Rather you than me. I need a drink.
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Chuckie@55..
Thanks for the lecture on British and Japanese business models..not.
However,you failed to address my postulation that once sacked in a business ..you stay sacked.
Actually..that is most important in the Japanese model,as loyalty to the organisation is paramount.
I think you read too many textbooks.
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Dracula lives!!
Has Brown completely lost the plot?
Here is a man who's had to resign twice, with an aura of corruption surrounding him and Jonah brings him back.
It's enough to make a rocking horse weep!
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Nick
It is now obvious -- this is a long term play.
Imagine how much Gordons popularity will leap when Mandleson goes!
Put him in now, then when it is at its very worse - ditch him and get a bit of a bounce!
I assume his peerage will only last for the duration of the job?
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Third time lucky for me getting a comment published and third time lucky for Mr Mandelson too.
Has anyone anywhere voted for Mr Mandelson?
Would anyone anywhere vote for MR Mandelson?
What do we have to do to get rid of MR Mandelson?
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Well at least he won't have to tap anyone up for a loan to buy a house. A couple of years in Brussels has ensured a healthy bank balance and a gold plated pension no doubt.
How about a nice house in Holland Park or possibly even Eaton Square? Arise Sir Mandy of Hartlepool.
Now that's whats called upward mobility.
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This is October, and it is the 3rd, isn't it!!
Or have I time travelled forward by 2 days short of six months??
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The PM is just rewarding sleaze. Is this the fair and just society he wants? The more you abuse your power the higher office you get?
What a great role model for younger generations.
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"He's New Labour to his core, pro-business and tough on the unions. It will light a blue touch-paper under the government".
Not a very well thought out comment for a
cabinet minister.
I presume BLUE touch paper is a reference to the Conservatives being set alight by this gaff of all gaffs (bringing back Mandy) and opening the door of No 10 to David Cameron. Please God, let it be soon.
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In my brief experience, Mandelson is a very effective minister (he's intelligent, and gets through a heck of a lot of work), but his liking for intrigue often gets the better of him. I hope he's learned his lesson (twice).
PS - I never knew you were from Macclesfield, Nick. That explains a lot. "Altrincham FC - hating Macc since 1903"
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Morally bankrupt appointment of a repugnant individual. Quit now Brown.
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Oh dear oh dear. Unlike many on here and even though I have 'vote Conservative' written through me like a stick of rock I do not hate or despise Peter Mandelson. The man has some good in him, he worked tirelessly to try and bring some justice to the Omagh victims and I think that says a lot for him. I also think he is highly intelligent and could well be helpful in dealing with the current disasters. Having said that, his appointment is....ludicrous. It is a total kick in the teeth for democracy. I thought the House of Lords was supposed to be reformed? The idea that even now it is being used as a dumping ground so that the Prime Minister can bring unelected people into cabinet should be anathema to anybody with a shred of decency. GB has shot himself in the foot AGAIN.
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Handy Mandy comes to the aid of the grumpy Brown bear...
Fat Cat Eurocrat Mandy must be on a good deal - perhaps he gets Prezza's old flat as part of the package to prize him out of Europe.
Grumpy Brown bear must be losing his marbles in the latter days of his control of the cave - but maybe this new cub will make Captain Cameron smile; a ministerial resignation in the pipeline - just depends what Mandy does wrong next.
Brown gets points for creativity and headlines, but Cameron will seize the day.
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Poor old Gordon must be desperate. The BBC reported him in these terms when he became Prime Minister:
"Posing outside 10 Downing Street with his wife Sarah, the man who has been Mr Blair's chancellor since 1997 said: "Let the work of change begin."
He said his priorities were education, health and restoring trust in politics and promised to "try my utmost". "
And so, to "restore trust in politics" he brings back Mandelson!
This is the last act (or one of them, I hope) of a desperate man.
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I'm sure this story hasn't finished yet. Boris Johnson abused his office. Toughing it out was possible but taking a dive helps show the Tories for what they are. If Boris doesn't get impeached more abuse like this will help the Tories dig a deeper hole.
It was a joke.
I called it yesterday based on reasoning that policy and presentation needed sharpening. It might not have hit the exact target but the underlying prediction was correct. Nobody else in here even commented on the issue.
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If we did'nt know it already we do now.
Labour embraces and rewards corruption and sleaze.
How could a man who had to resign from the cabinet twice, for good reasons, be rewarded with a) the EU gravy train plum job and b) a return to cabinet.
I did not think Brown could sink any further in my estimation but I was wrong. His judgment and character are flawed. He has done great harm to our country and we are not safe in his hands.
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Does Gordon Brown have the number for Michael Foot?
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Brown's finally lost the plot.The man who epitomises all that was sleazy,nasty and unpleasant about the Blair years returns again like a bad smell.
It was rumoured years ago that Mandy's apparent "get out of jail free" card was because of what he knew about certain members of New Labour,I honestly can't think of any other reason why anyone in Government would think this is a good idea.
I wish it had been me who just e-mailed 5 Live with "We've had the Pantomime for 12 months,finally the villain has appeared".
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Ho ho ho and they've brought Marge Becket back too. Oh how we farmers love this government. Not! Hopefully Jeff Roocker will stay put as the only supporter we had in the government.
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Personally I don't like Mandelson and feel he'll be a liability for the Government. Though I must say the he wasn't 'sacked in disgrace'. He resigned to halt media stories creating an unwarranted impression of wrongdoing amongst the government. His first resignation was over non-declaration of an interest free loan from another Labour MP, though no evidence that this loan had influenced Mandeleson's decisions was ever produced. An inquiry into his second resignation cleared him of any wrongdoing, though again, he resigned to prevent the media mud slinging over claims he'd 'helped' Srichand Hinduja with his application for British Citizenship. I suspect the media will be after him again, so I think it’s a bad move from Brown. The fact that some on here have immediately recalled that he 'was twice sacked in disgrace' shows the power of media mud-slinging over the power of actual facts.
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There is general revulsion accross the blogs on this.
It will be particularly interesting to see how the BBC spins the story
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Charles E Hardtotakeserious@55 says Peter Mandelson is loyal.
I'm sure Brown believes that - in a Granita sort of way.
As to the reshuffle, I'm waiting for the clinchers. Sir Ian Blair to the House of Lords and appointed Home Secretary. Alastair Campbell ennobled and appointed to head the Ministry of Truth.
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Well done Gordon - a "comedy death" for Labour will be more palatable than the current "miserabilist death".
OK - so we need the bookmakers to sort out the odds on the month that Mandelson gets sacked for a third time.
I'll put £50 on April 2009.
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If in doubt and if everything else fails, bring back Mandelson.
The above seems to be the procedure the Labour party are following.
Are they really that stuck for ideas?
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This is a clever move by Gordon Brown.
He has managed to find the one politician in Western Europe who is dispised in greater measure than himself.
For the remainder of Browns pitiful and futile tenure, Mandelson can be a lightening conductor / scapegoat / good way to bury bad news.
Clever!
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"So even though we are entering an extremely difficult economic times in the years to come because of the GLOBAL financial turmoil and GLOBAL recession, Labour is on the way up, while Cameron is on the way out."
What planet are you on? While it is true that Labour had a recent increase in the polls it was the week after their conference - when for the whole week the media had been focused on them. If they hadn't of had an increase it would have been a surprise.
Even after Labour's poll increase they would still have lost a general election and the Tories would have won a small majority.
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Tragic!
So the slimy master of spin himself is back in town.
At a time when the British people are in need of honesty and integrity this is the last thing we need.
Who will be next? Alistair Campbell?
What pressure must have been put on Gordon Brown to make such an appointment?
What we see now is the lack of leadership and talent in this Labour party.
The turmoil the country is already in is going to be exacerbated during the coming months.
But this time we will not be told truthfully what is really going on.
Despair!
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Clever, move this. Bring in a political 'heavywieght' but not one who can possibly challenge you for the leadership.
Come the election...
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So, is this the price of unity in the parliamentary labour party?
I really do think that Dave has got right into Gordons head, and Gordon is beginning to listen!
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# 64 gthebounceranddavincimaster
I'm no fan of Mandelson, but it's not correct to say "The man is proven to be corrupt".
I seem to recall his first resignation related to a loan which should have been disclosed on his mortgage application.
His second resignation relates to the passport affair - but he was later cleared of wrongdoing by the Hammond Report.
The misunderstanding was apparently due to a muddle, and Downing Street said he leaves "without any stain on his character".
So, he isn't corrupt. Just inept.
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Why oh why do we have Mandy back. Surely Cabinet members have to be MPs...
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"I'm sure this story hasn't finished yet. Boris Johnson abused his office. Toughing it out was possible but taking a dive helps show the Tories for what they are. If Boris doesn't get impeached more abuse like this will help the Tories dig a deeper hole."
How has Boris Johnson abused his office, he simply made clear that he didn't support Ian Blair's position. If Johnson wanted to get rid of him then he would have had to follow a procedure - rather then face that Blair resigned. Johnson didn't sack Blair - Blair resigned.
It is very hard to take you seriously at the best of times but when you come out with blatent misrepresentations it seems less like your usual delusions.
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#101 farmer_martin
But think what it'll do for the NuLab wing of the Caravan Club.
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Yeah, that's right. Brain fart.
I didn't expect folks to fall over themselves to thank me for highlighting the difference in management models, though I can almost hear the book pages flipping as I write this.
Labour is big on creating opportunity and Mandelson has his business focus, and with the failure of business and finance, I expect, this model will become more fashionable.
The Tories are all about control and wealth concentration. The corrections needed in the economy run totally against the Tory ethos, and they have no plan for this.
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Nick - As for shoring up his position in the Labour party, well how about shoring up his position with voters. Giving Mandy a Peerage so that he can serve in his Cabinet is not going to go down well with any of the voters.
Mandy is a complete disgrace, and bringing him back shows just how morally bankrupt Brown is.
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As for Sir Ian Blair being given a Peerage, would it really surprise anyone?
I mean really, Labour's parting gift to the country will probably be to give Blair a peerage.
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Whoah!! Mandies back in town. Gordon has finally lost the plot!!
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Let's just pray that Brown also has the sense to realise that the best Labour man to lead the country is, of course, Tony Blair. Make him a Lord, then appoint him as PM. Labour would still lose the election, but they wouldn't get decimated, and at least we'd have somebody with charisma and daring running the country, someone who can inspire confidence. (No quips about confidence tricks, please!)
Blair would at least preserve what's left, so that the Tories have something to build on when they get in. Brown's obviously an SNP undercover agent on an England scorched earth mission, whose objective is to leave a wasteland when he goes back north.
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My dishonourable Friend.
I think the amount of comments already posted about Mandy, tells us a story. Sigh..., just when you think matters can't get any worse, they do. To reinstate that union bashing conservative conman (with a very large 'C' for Noo Labor) Peter Meddlesome, is beyond belief. I know that Mrs Kelly is giving up the holy ghost but does Noo Labor want to be completely 'Ruth-less'?
Wait a minute? Perhaps Gordon is interested in Meddlesome's voodoo skills and his ability to mortgage the party headquarters? I was beginning to have a small amount of sympathy for Mr Broon but this caps it all. Its one thing to abandon Socialism Gordon but reason as well?
Sean Appleby-Simpkin, feeling quite queasy.
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Feel sorry for the Mail journalists do they attack Brown or Mandy?
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#118
Quote from the front page of the Evening Standard - Sir Ian is poised for a speedy return to public life with a peerage and possibly a government post... .
Wonder who has been briefing the ES journo's?
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Peter Mandelson is back. Gordon Brown, for so long said to lack courage and to be unwilling to reach out to his enemies in the Labour Party, has now confounded his Blairite critics by putting Mandy back into the cabinet.
------------------------------------------------------------
Funny, Nick, how few of your posters seem to agree with your belief that this is some act of courage.
Still they are not on the pay-roll of an organisation which owes its existence to funding requiring the approval of government.
They're out (here) in the real world.
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Marvellous,
Despirate move by Brown, Mandy (the Nu Labour answer to Geoffrey Archer), back in.
I suppose it was either him of Dennis Skinner!
Start the stop watch, lets see how long he lasts this time...
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
"5. At 10:19am on 03 Oct 2008, derekbarker wrote:
"Hmmmmmm.....What I will say..IS...this
Mandelson will take Cameron to the cleaners on a PR position...... "
Derek, so, you clearly approve of spin and PR over substance and truth, so long as it is labour doing the spinning....
Is this so you can disguise why you were ever taken in by this bunch of incompetemt spivs in the first place?
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I am glad to hear a true blairite is back and hope mandelson presence could somehow make the core ideas more reassuring again.
But it is a little too late , the labour party is at the edge of a cliff and pulling it back would require more than one man's effort
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When Johnson made it clear that his office wasn't going to cooperate with the police it made Blair's job unecessarily difficult, just like some mob boss making coded threats to some poor shopkeeper.
There's plenty of irresponsible comment from the usual suspects in the media and the Tories that just undermined confidence and sapped morale. Faced with Johnson's mob tactics and media gossip, Blair just said "Screw you" and walked.
I don't particularly like lies or greed from anyone. It's bad form and selfish, and it's abuses of "soft power" like this that bring down people, companies, and entire nation states. The Tories want a fight like Mugabe cuz that's how thugs get into power.
And, yeah. There's books on this.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
So, let me get this straight: Brown is accused of lack of courage, so he gives Mandy a cabinet position to show how courageous he really is?
Well, I can sort of see the logic of that, but I think he's just pussyfooting around. If he'd really wanted to show how courageous he is, he could have given the job to Jeffrey Archer.
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Hurrah - now I KNOW I am going to vote Labour again!Cameron hardly opened his mouth on Wednesday before uttering the dread word - Thatcher.Instant turnoff!With the new breadth in Brown's Cabinet this is the Government that the Brits need to guide them through the coming recession.Otherwise - Police pay sky-rocketing up so that they will CRS-style put down the demonstrations by the hungry unemployed- we want no more police cavalry charging British citizens which is where we ended with Thatcher-Tebbit.And where was Blessed Norman last week? - tied up and securely gagged in a cupboard in Birmingham no doubt.
The Labour Party is back on course - Jeff Randle will be foaming at the mouth.
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"Smart move for Brown. Should kill off the Blairite push for a change of Labour leader. Enemies, tents and bodily functions spring immediately to mind."
Problem, when we need a leader in power with the WILLING support of his party and the country to see us through this difficult time, do we really want a Prime Minister that is fighting for his life against his own party to the extent that he has to drag in these dregs to try to shore up his own weakened position? A man whose knowledge and experience of the world of economics includes trashing our massive retirements surplus and selling our gold reserves at rock bottom prices and doing NOTHING to reign-in excessive and irresponsible lending although he was warned for many years that it would lead to catastrophe?
I do NOT want a man who is very experienced in making incompetent decisions to be running the country now. A man who has to make political appointments solely for the sake of saving his own skin for a few more months, rather than for the good of the country.
We need an election so that we can get a united and focused and competent party back in control of the economy. The same party that pulled us out of the last recession and created a dynamic, succesful and healthy economy that has taken a global crisis AND the labour Government to wreck.
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Well Nick, I'm in Macclesfield right now, and do you know what they're saying?
I don't think I can actually say.... but they do want Gordon and this shower of crooks and liars to go somewhere.... but it ain't to the foot of any stairs.
I guess they might be happy with the foot of Beachy Head.
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Labour brings back yet another spin doctor.
He may be able to fluff up the things Labour has done, which isn't much, and keep away from mentioning their kok ups!
Conservatives can do the same and claim they will do this and do that better. Couldn't really be any worse than we have got now could it?
The Liberals don't seem to be fit for purpose either!
God help us if we have to put up with the same old thing again and again.
I remember the promises made by the conservatives last time and they failed to deliver anything as well.
Politics in this country is a corrupt mess and needs to be sorted out to stop big companies manipulating the votes in the house, where they use marketing companies and lobbying companies as fronts to get their own way behind closed doors and the backs of the general public.
This type of politics has gone on for far too long and needs to be stopped. How convenient it is for the MP's not to do anything about the corruption they find. And what about the quango's which literally steal public money.
They are hardly going to shoot the golden goose but the public are becoming more and more aware of just how corrupt the system is and it needs to be changed as it's just not working for the public. It's only working for bubble Westminster and its sponsors!
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Will Milliband venture out after dark with Mandleson back.................scary
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Good move, I think, from Brown to bring back the PoD ... Mandy is way too right wing for my taste but, as regards political talent, she is a class act.
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I don't think it's a surprise,he said he was going for experience.
It's about the one ''event'' in public life,at the moment, that he has some degree of control/influence on.
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Interesting response to this in on the Guardian website:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/oct/03/mandelson.labour
Two lines in the article stand out for me:
"Mandelson is, of course, no Churchill – the most he aspires to do is to save his party, not save the country."
and
"Be in no doubt, though: it is a brave – and desperate – throw. Mock him, despise him, insult him or deride him, Mandelson is without question one of the major figures in British politics of the past 20 years and the kind of "big beast" that Brown's often hapless cabinet has so manifestly lacked."
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He's already brought Alistair Campbell back - who next, Tony Blair?
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132. StalyVoice
More Drones.
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Last year it was the Government Of All The Talents.
This year it's the Government Of All The Exes!!
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Dude, this might just be some internet wheeze for you but there's plenty of folks who remember the businesses shutting down and incomes being screwed into the ground to pay off a few middle class shareholders. This isn't just another round of Halo but real bricks and mortar, and real people.
I remember being told about the old days where kids went to school with no shoes, ate sugar sandwiches, and had their teeth yanked for a penny. When the 80's came the Tory Kool-Aid said they'd do better and had changed, and that ended in riots on the streets. We've already had a hint they're still clinging to Thatcherism. It ain't gonna be any different this time.
The lesson of the past few weeks is that if it sounds too good to be true it probably is. The Tories will promise anything and can't stoop low enough to get back into power. But, building real and enduring success doesn't happen overnight. Only the spiv and the chancer will promise you that. This next election is a chance to break that repeating cycle of misery by telling the Tories to stick their lies.
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So at a time when we are grappling with the consequences of irresponsible lending and irresponsible borrowing in the housing market, Mr Brown appoints .. as business secretary... someone who lied on his mortgage application .. .
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My wife and I were Labour Party members for 16 years.
Thanks to the contribution of creeps like Mandelson, neither of us can even bring ourselves to vote Labour these days.
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"When Johnson made it clear that his office wasn't going to cooperate with the police it made Blair's job unecessarily difficult, just like some mob boss making coded threats to some poor shopkeeper."
So Johnson, who is chairman of the Met. police authority isn't going to cooperate with the police? Somehow that doesn't quite wash, the quote from Johnson himself saying that he felt the Met would "benefit from new leadership" makes much more sense. As London Mayor he would be foolish to alienate the cities Police Force - but oddly enough there doesn't appear to be mass protests from the police that Blair has resigned.
"There's plenty of irresponsible comment from the usual suspects in the media and the Tories that just undermined confidence and sapped morale. Faced with Johnson's mob tactics and media gossip, Blair just said "Screw you" and walked."
It isn't just the Tories who have commented that he should resign, the Lib Dems in fact only Labour seems to be behind Blair (but he is "their" man).
"I don't particularly like lies or greed from anyone. It's bad form and selfish, and it's abuses of "soft power" like this that bring down people, companies, and entire nation states. The Tories want a fight like Mugabe cuz that's how thugs get into power."
You have come out with some total and utter rubbish in the past but to compare the Tories to Mugabe is unfair and very bad form. The Tories are not thugs, anymore then Labour (for all their many flaws) are. And when it comes to complaints about lies and abuses of power - you should be glad to be rid of Blair as he hasn't been above lying and abuses of power (awarding a contract to his friend).
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Have the 'GOATS' now become the 'old goats' ??
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One of the core criticisms of GB is that he is obsessed with tribalism. One of the others is that he is a control freak who cannot let ministers run departments without interfering. DC made reference to the latter at length in Birmingham.
On both counts Brown is trying show that he is capable of change.
Mandelson is THE arch Blairite and there is no way that Gordon is going to interfere in the running of DBERR with Mandelson in charge.
This could be an inspired decision - time will tell.
I am much more confident though that bringing back Margaret Beckett is a good move - she can pop up on Sky News and Today and enforce the Government line. This is key role in managing the government's message and hasn't really been handled effectively since John Reid stopped having responsibility in this area.
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I do hope when Brown welcomes him back Nick puts together a montage with the Barry Manilow song 'Mandy' playing over it:
Morning, just another day
Happy people pass my way
Looking in their eyes
I see a memory
I never realized
you made me so happy, oh Mandy
Well you came and you gave without taking
but I sent you away, oh Mandy
well you kissed me and stopped me from shaking
I need you today, oh Mandy
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With Mandelson being appointed to the Lords (as he is no longer an MP), does this have any restrictions in terms of returning to the commons?
Basically, in theory could he replace Brown and become Prime Minister?
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Yup, Mandy's back - 22 minutes of World at One - Nulab certainly knows how to dominate BBC news. Not one second on why the reshuffle could be good for the country or change its present woes.
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Don't know about back to the future, more like - Turn back time. Yesterdays man. Disturbing that TB is 'still in regular touch', closet government. No hope then. Might help Labour, can't see how, but doubt it helps Brown, could there be a more clear cry of I can't do the job. Didnt vote for Brown to be PM, didnt vote for Mandy to be de facto PM because Brown isnt up to it. Lets spin again, get Campbell back. Just as disturbing that Cameron wants to go retro with Thatcher link. Can't anybody deal with todays problems instead of serving up a ready made meal.
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I tend to agree with a lot of what you said. I think, too much lawyering, marketing, and the general idea it's fine to game the system and line your own pockets is a one way trip to hell.
I'd like to see more evidence based comment from Nick instead of gossip, and less of the arguing and personalising of issues by some folks in here. You'd think change would be easy with such a small group.
Anyway, I've seen it a bazillion times. Any entity that loses touch with the centre is doomed to failure. I'm too lazy to dig up the link but Nick's earlier topics on the Nothern Irish settlement are worth reading.
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Well this one appointment neutralises all the Tory sleaze allegations since time began.
Having resigned once for taking a loan from a fellow MP \ business man whose company Mandlesons own department was actually investigating. Then having resigned again (thats twice Derek) for supposedly attempting to organise citizenship for an Indian business man who was: A, sponsoring the Dome and B, under investigation by the Indian authorities for a kickbacks scandal of their own. Brown decides he wants him back in government to save his own skin.
Conviction politician.. My - - - -
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Margaret Beckett...cabinet enforcer!!
Wow, I'll bet they're all terrified.
My Aunty Flo could do a better job and she's been dead for 20 years.
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This is a stroke of genius by Gordon.
Appoint someone more hated than he is
(takes the heat off) and then hailed a hero when he sacks him for sleaze (which will undoubtably happen).
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#22 et seq. Charles_E_Hardwidge
Just got back to see that the BBC Ticker Tape reported at 12:45 that "And former Labour speechwriter Derek Draper says he believes Mr Mandelson's critics will be "pleasantly surprised" about the contribution he will make to the government."
So now we know - the Hogwash isn't a Draper clone but the man himself.
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It is an absolute disgrace and an insult to the people of this country that a man who has twice had to resign from the government for taking advantage of his position for his own gain should now be rewarded with a cabinet post. Since, he is not even an elected member of parliament he cannot be held to account in parliament and now finds himself in a permanent position of influence in the House of Lords. This awful government has now reached an all time low in displaying it's total disregard for parliament and an unbelievable level of cynicism to the electorate.
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CEH,
You do talk tripe.
Long gone of the days of Zen of which you were such a strong proponent. Long gone is the supposed impartial commentary.
Now it's the we love Labour show. Now there is nothing wrong with that. I just wish for all our sakes you had stated your intentions in the beginning.
Oh and as for comparing Boris to a mob boss. Well honestly. I think that’s a bit off. This coming from the man who drools over the Labour party and boy aren't they a picture of sainthood.
"Labour are all about opportunity?" Really is that why we now have less social mobility than in 97 More children in "poverty" and unemployment rising rapidly. That’s opportunity for you.
"The Tories are all about control" Again total rubbish, I think we'd both agree the are after a smaller government/state less bureaucracy. If you want control take a closer look at St Gordon.
Please Charles do use your brains when you argue rather than just making sweeping statement. Or is that the point? Are you just trying to incite us?
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LOL! Brown has brought someone back in Mandy who the Public despise even more than him!! Even more reason not to vote Labour!!!
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I can just not believe this, as already stated, he will become a Peer and we have him for the rest of his natural life.
Time to reform the Upper House, only membership by the will of the people via the ballot box, or is that democracy?
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Charlie, Charlie, Charlie,
Oh dear.
You've refused to answer many direct questions over the past week or so, so lets try commenting on your posts in a more direct fashion.
"If my crystal ball works as well as it normally does someone's going to get hired or fired before the end of the week. Personally, I think, it should be Stephen Carter, cuz the guy's an ex-NTL jerk who doesn't know what he's doing. The man's a rolling disaster."
This quote is what you claim can be counted as you predicting the comeback of Mandelson (if not, please furnish me with the relevant post for me to look at). Your reasoning seems to be that, because you predicted someone would be hired or fired this week, you successfully predicted the return of Mandy.
Rubbish. Poppycock. Baloney.
We ALL knew someone would be hired or fired this week, as Ruth Kelly's resignation has been known for over a week. At 6:12 pm yesterday (when you posted this) we all knew the reshuffle was coming today - just in case you hadn't realised, the BBC Live Text reporting of the reshuffle started at 4 pm yesterday, some 2 hours before your post.
We can ALL predict something will happen once we know its started Charles, and just so you know, predicting the sacking of Stephen Carter is NOT the same as predicting the return of Mandy.
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Nobody seems to have commented that the senior cabinet posts remain as before - a complete bunch of incompetents imo.
Bringing in the discredited Mandy to a department where the whole business community will ignore him will be, at best, an irrelevence and at worst simply, well, an irrelevence.
Does Broon have real faith in his little Darling or is it that the economic situation is so dire that he cannot dare move him?
It really is time that this lot were booted out and a new Government were elected. We need genuine talent in the Government now, not has-beens from previous regimes.
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141 Carrots
Derek's Drones..........
The Chief Drone himself has been spouting
(although judging by the comments on the article the Guardianistas don't seem to agree!):
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/oct/03/mandelson.labour1
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Charlie Hogswill
No stop, stop, spare us.
We know....sigh.... You and Pete share the same personality type.
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126 pot kettle,
Typical insensitive Tory remark.
"Whatever next
Blunkett in shock return , the blind to lead the blind. "
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Ignore the Mandelson issue; the undead won't last long in the sunlight of the next 12 months in the run up to the next election. My concern is Defence; war in two countries, armed forces at over stretch, and he appoints Hutton. Hutton! What on earth does he bring to the MoD?? That will surely tell everyone just how highly this Governemnt rates our Armed Forces .....
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143 wrote:
'This next election is a chance to break that repeating cycle of misery by telling the Tories to stick their lies.'
Chuck my friend I think the continuing cycle of misery that you refer to is that provided by the present encumbent and his colleagues in the past 3 terms. Harking back to Margaret Thatcher is a worn out argument that just doesn't wash with the many people who are suffering hardship today. Many weren't even born when MT was in charge.
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#135 Tom_Fullery
Good points, except that you seem to be talking about "Conservatives" and "Liberals" in the American sense. The Liberal Party no longer put up candidates for Westmidden due to the deposit cost, and both NuLab and the Tories seem to be squabbling over the ground of the old Conservatives.
The LibDems do at least support constitutional & electoral reform to clear out some of the stench of Westmidden's quasi-democracy. Sadly, the electorate will probably follow their wallets as usual without a thought of cleaning up the system which brought us "elective dictatorship".
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Can't wait for the headline in tomorrow's Sun - should be a corker! What this shows is that Brown is trying to buy off his Blairite critics within the Labour Party by bringing the architect of NuLabour into Cabinet. The Prince of Darkness is back!
Well, at least Brown will have one experienced operator in his Cabinet from now on, but he is still (justifiably) doomed.....
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So here we are in the middle of a global financial crisis, recession looming, public sector debt at an all time high, public spending through the roof....and GB creates a 'new department'? That's money for relocations, new branding, consultants, new posts...
Does this madness know no end?
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
So who wants a bet on HOW he leaves the government this time...?
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Where are the men in white coats?
The last conservative government was rightly thrown out because of sleaze. Now we have the Great Ditherer bringing back a twice disgraced former cabinet minister.
What an utter disgrace and what a message this sends to junior ministers who now miss an opportunity to become a senior minister and be tested in this role.
Surely this must be the worst ever government this country has ever experienced. The sooner we have an election the sooner the electorate can have their collective say and rid us of this total and utter incompetence.
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#132 StalyVoice
Clone alert
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From post 152
"Didnt vote for Brown to be PM, didnt vote for Mandy to be de facto PM because Brown isnt up to it. Lets spin again, get Campbell back."
Errr, there isn't a vote for PM, as far as I'm aware, and nor do you vote for people in the Lords. From some of the earlier comments, anyone would think having cabinet ministers sitting in the House of Lords was a vile Labour invention - I suppose no-one remembers Lord Carrington and Lord Young these days (probably deservedly so, but never mind). And I believe Campbell has been back for a while, in an unofficial capacity at least.
And can we please drop this NuLab thing? It's becoming a real bore...
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Former home secretary David Blunkett described his appointment as a "masterstroke" and told the BBC it would unite the government.
"It is embracing someone who, in the past, had been seen as being very close to Tony Blair, so it's an inclusive measure," he said.
"It's someone who's got a tremendous breath of political experience and I think that adds to the weight of the cabinet."
See Blind leading the Blind
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Why is it that people seem to have such acute memories of the 1980s, and yet suffer severe amnesia when it comes to anything pre-1979?
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159:
Seconded!
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Bringing back Mandy has only dictracted us from the fact that all the "senior" posts have remained the same!
Milliband, Darling and Smith still there... Gordon, get some guts and get rid of these people.
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You have only got to read the BBC's owm blow by blow account of the reshuffle to see that the in-fighting haas already started.
Bringing Mandy back may have the opposite of its desired effect. Instead of stopping the leadership challenge it looks highly likely that it will light the blue touch paper.
The left side of the parliamentary labour party is irate at the appointment, they thought they were going to be able to move Gordon to the Left and he has lurched right.
The UK will be a very different place by Christmas, When the economy has been bankrupted and the PLP has imploded. Someone should alert the Swiss, turning on the Hadron collider seems to have created a black hole
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@166
Glad to see i still push your buttons
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In his role as unelected Euro official, Mandelson told the American politicians that they had "taken leave of their senses".
His appointment as an unelected 'business secretary' will do wonders for our good relationship with the USA.
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It is not warming up yesterday's political leftovers that Labour needs - its new policies for ending poverty and dealing with climate change that are urgent.
Brown has now sealed the fate of Labour to be in opposition probably for the next decade.
How is it Cameron can look more progressive than Gordon Bean - easy when the latter wants to replace trident, buy two aircraft carriers, force expansion at Heathrow, see 42 days as a principle, make the poor pay more tax, fawn over the fat cats of business and privatise, privatise and privatise
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charles at 116
Could I ask you a question?
I know this is a global financial crisis at the moment but do you beleive that Mr Brown bears no responsibility whatsoever for the current situation in the UK?
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BLAIR is the man in control.
BROWN has effectivley given up and has surrenderd to be BLAIRS puppet.
BROWN'S pride is too great to allow him to do what is right for the country and surrender his post to a worthy successor (selected by the public in a general election) so this is his last hope.
Will MANDLESON
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I view all this with some trepidation for I have seen governments firstly legalise homosexuality then later lower the age of consent, are we about to see it being made compulsory
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BLAIR is the man in control.
BROWN has effectivley given up and has surrenderd to be BLAIRS puppet.
BROWN'S pride is too great to allow him to do what is right for the country and surrender his post to a worthy successor (selected by the public in a general election) so this is his last hope.
Will MANDLESON be missed in europe? NO - because he had failed, and his work had ground to a halt.
Proven failures in all important posts - so much for 'experience'...
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Peter Mandelson ?
I thought it was ' Three Strikes and You're Out ' !!!
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It's official,
We really do have a lunatic in charge of the country. Good thing is though that this might be the move that brings down the Government from within. Can't wait to see how the PM introduces a man twice disgraced. He will probably just ignore all that and carry on getting on with the job. As you now know, that is what people want him to do LOL
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I have been a regular reader of the blogs on here - very interesting and enjoyable they are too.
However, I am compelled to post because of the preponderance of annoying blind partisanship. There are some extremely eloquent and interesting points of view from posters such as balhamu that inspire debate. But then there are the hopelessly blind and infantile offerings from posters such as Charles_E_H inspiring nothing.
Please, can we just ignore the misguided ramblings of those wishing to, in some way, project intellectual superiority.
Rather like leaving a screaming child in the supermarket to "get over it", perhaps just ignoring them might be best; and allow them some peace too.
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Whats the point of a political blog when the blogger shows less insight than the commenters?
Ok, so Mandelson may not be best mates with Brown, but a word to the wise; He's a even less popular with the rest of us.
So unpopular, that only a PM in dire straits would choose to raise this ghost, and in doing so run the risk of a backlash from voters who still haven't forgiven Mandelson for getting caught and caught and caught, until even his own party realised he was un-electable and booted him somewhere cushy.
Mandelson's return has a price, and its more than just poor Gordon having to work with someone he doesn't like.
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The binary politics that we witness on here i.e. Labour .v. Tories is tedious in the extreme.
But I suppose, if these posters are representative of the electorate at large, then we can see precisely why England has been going nowhere for decades.
It is an almost completely sterile debate.
I would suggest that the people need a paradigm shift in the type of politics that is practised here in England if we are to have a more coherent and stable society.
Who knows, maybe that shift is just around the corner?
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Ha Ha!
So this is the 'experience' that Brown thinks the British public needs. A man who's had to resign twice in scandalous circumstances now in charge of business during a recession. What a masterstroke.
I heard some New Labour office boy on the radio this afternoon saying that the Tories will be running around wondering how to respond to this. I'll tell you how they'll respond; they'll be crying with laughter.
The government is desperate. Really desperate.
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Nick,
I live in Macclesfield and no one talks like that! We've not moved to Lancs/Yorks you know [or should that be "tha' knows"?]. When were brothers last in the Cabinet together?
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Truly repulsive. SLEAZE.SLEAZE.SLEAZE.SLEAZE.
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It's not just cream that rises to the top!!!!
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"Life is complicated. I don't have all day to box tick the pluses and minuses of every person, policy, or organisation. But, if we're focusing purely on the essence of political parties campaign strategies, I think, it's fair to compare the Tories to Mugabe."
So you have plenty of time to come on here and tripe meaningless dribble but when asked to provide evidence to back up your comments you are suddenly too busy?
I want you to provide examples (with evidence from a reputable source) of the Tories acting like Mugabe. If I had to choose one of the two main parties as coming from the Mugabe school it would be New Labour (you just have to look at the number of peerages given out in the last 11 years and just today the PM has moved a non-elected friend of the party into an important political post) but seriously New Labour haven't sunk to the depths of Mugabe (protestors are thrown out of the conference not beaten up and killed!) and I would say that even the more extreme laws that Labour have brought in have been done because politicians have their hearts in the right place (just not sure about their brains).
"I'm not saying the Tories don't have the potential to change but I want to see something more verifiable and sustainable than clever words oozed on a podium. Talk is cheap and it's only when someone is tested you find out if they're up to it. Cameron and his online "war veterans" are failing that test spectacularly."
Yes, talk is cheap but what action can Cameron take? New Labour has a sizable majority, Cameron can back his talk up all he likes in the House but to shoot down Labour's policies in the house requires Labour back benchers to rebel (and when it looks like that Brown might actually lose a vote he throws a bone to MPs outside his party to get them to vote "his way"). Cameron seems to be backing up his words with actions and the test will be what he does if he is elected.
How much do Labour pay you to be their equivalent of the old Iraqi propganda guy? And do you get paid from Labour funds or from the public purse?
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Things must be bloody dreadful if Gordon has resorted to bringing Mandy back. How long before Prescott is back too?
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"Why is it that people seem to have such acute memories of the 1980s, and yet suffer severe amnesia when it comes to anything pre-1979?"
That is easy - because the problems before 1979 were not down to Mrs Thatcher. Although I am sure that some of her most devoted haters will find some way to pin the problems of the last Labour government on her.
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Subtle - now everyone has a reason to want to shut down the Upper House.
I really must learn how to spell peeer.
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#172 CEH
"But, if we're focusing purely on the essence of political parties campaign strategies, I think, it's fair to compare the Tories to Mugabe"
Absolute claptrap and well you know it.
Mugabes well documented "campaign strategy" was to terrorise the Zimbabwe electorate by means of an armed band of thugs raping, torturing, and in frequent cases, murdering their MDC opponents abetted by his police forces. Their efforts from memory weren't just restricted to the voting public either, Morgan Tsvangirai was hospitalised at least once.
A ridiculous analogy!!
Of the Tory and Labour parties, the present incumbents are far more likely to resort to underhand tactics in their campaigning. Simple expedients like the General Election Gordon Brown shied away from with flimsy reasoning and the long awaited Glenrothes
bye-election postponed for as long as possible because the hiding Labour will recieve at the hands of the SNP is going to worry the life out of the MP in the neighbouring constituency.
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164. jonathan_cook
No surprise.
What possible person of sound mind (not you DB) could possibly think this was a clever idea.
The Tories must think all their Christmases have come together.
John Major must be in a ROFL seisure
Just goes to show how out of touch they are now.
Whens the next BYE election.
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Desperate embraces desperate. So Gordon and Mandy need each other, but for all the wrong reasons in each case. The question you should be asking is does the country need two desperate old men who are both past their sell-by date?
Sinking their differences, my foot.
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# 159 SecondSpanners
regarding your last line - yes, he does.
As someone else has already suggested, it's best just to ignore the posts, or treat them as amusing fiction. It's not worth expending any energy on them, just move on.
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Three things in life are certain: death, taxes and the eventual return of Peter Mandelson.
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Kettle wrote
David Blunkett
See Blind leading the Blind
Well as home secatary he was once the head of "Neighbourhood Watch" you couldn't make it up.
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With luck like this, Cameron should buy a lottery ticket this weekend.
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I agree that it gives the Conservatives some ammunition to discuss competance and judgement.
Surely GB knows this decision will bring grief? I am assuming he has decided that the risk is worth it and Mandelson will deliver benefits that will outshine the grief.
Also, Mandelson is no stranger to manipulation and will want to deflect attention back to the opposition.
GB's concern should be the Labour MP's. Can they be trusted to keep any negative opinions out of the press.
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Gordon Brown has just appointed the next Prime Minister.
Wouldnt that just be a fitting and most amusing end to Browns career
Might actually be worth it.
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I love it. It's 1997 all over again. Gordon is also inviting Alistair Campbell back in. With Tony in the background, it's the old triumverate back together again. Business chiefs are really chuffed to have Peter Mandelsen back. As they have said, his experience of business, in particular his insight into the EU as a Commissioner, will be invaluable. I think after Boris Johnson's presumptious and bullying behaviour yesterday, people are now getting an insight into what life would be like under a Conservative government, and they didn't like what they saw. Never mind employment law, or protocols, if you're 'not one of us', as Mrs Thatcher often said, you're out.
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What is the sound of one hand clapping?
The left wing ideologues are as mistaken as their right wing equivalents. Lurching left would just add to the boom and bust politics when folks should be developing the centre.
All major parties have their key flaws: arguing, greed, and daydreaming. Investing in loss, or doing the opposite to what decades of habit have ingrained can help bring about change.
Calm is required to begin a process of bringing more positive consensus over the long haul instead of knuckle dragging competitive behaviour. You can't build an empire on blood.
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#166 grandantidote
I despise Blunkett as much as most, but certainly not for his diability and agree that #126 was in poor taste.
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Why is everyone so hard on Mandelson? He's an intelligent politician and it seems to me CAN make a difference. Kudos to Brown for bringing him back.
Everyone here seems to be hung up on his resignations - but the fact is the first resignation was more an error of judgement, and his second was more than likely him taking a bullet for Blair. After all, every government pulls strings for their powerful, rich citizens (the Hindujas). He wasn't even found guilty over that.
Here's what Mandelson has: Intelligence, Charisma, Experience. Exactly what we need from all our politicians!
Look out, Cameron and the Conservatices :)
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Not content with giving us an unelected Prime Minister who never got properly/democratically elected either by his party or by the public, Brown has now given us a totally unelected Business Minister in the cabinet.
This is just too much; you can't have an unelected person holding a job of this kind of political nature, it's nothing less than dictatorship.
Luckily, in 2010, despite Mandelson not actually being an MP in the first place, the new Prime Minister will still be able to fire him.
We might not be able to un-elect Mandelson (as he's not elected anyway), so the only way out is to sack the entire government. I look forward to that.
It's just a great shame that his peerage probably won't/can't be revoked once he's fired in 2010.
What's that, did someone mention "Mugabe"? Surely not. Perish the thought that an unelected dictator (Brown) should be compared to an elected leader (Mugabe).
I don't like Mugabe, but at least he had an election to become leader, which is more than Brown did.
"Vote for anyone you like, as long as it's for me, and you can only have the vote if my name is the only one on the ballot"
Get rid of these people now; our democracy is damaged enough already; it's time to tell them to get out.
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Gordon when the soup goes bad you don't p**s in it to make it better.
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Unalloyed joy!
Just refreshed the BBC "live text" to find that the new Scottish Secretary is that wonderful Europe Minister, Jim Murphy, who did such a wonderful job of "selling" the Lisbon Treaty in the House of Cards.
He could not win an argument with himself, let alone Salmond, who must be laughing his socks off yet again.
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Hey Gordon (I know your reading)
How about:
John Prescott to Culture
Robert Maxwell as Pensions Secretary
And George Galloway as your US Ambassador
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214. stuartjreid
Is that you Peter?
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Cash for peerages
Not in Mandy's case.
Peerage for sleazy and failure, definately
2010 Gordon Brown will make Tony Blair and Ian Blair lords as he exits parliament.
Blunkett will get one
Beckett will get one
Perhaps this is one way to give the country the stomache to agree to reform of the upper house. Its the only way to definately get these incompetants out
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Stealing material and throwing it back is cheap and lazy. You folks need to try coming up with your own material and being nice for a change. Cameron's just as bad. Where's his policies and sense of kindness?
Seeing you lot banging the desks and slapping each other on the back the other day was like a re-run of Tories sniffing their own gasses when Thatcher was in power. It wasn't great then, and isn't great now.
Folks want their problems fixed and a fair deal, and the Tories mistake this trend for football hooliganism. It may play the same note but the tune is wrong. When folks clock this you're busted.
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From Post 215
"Not content with giving us an unelected Prime Minister...Brown has now given us a totally unelected Business Minister in the cabinet. This is just too much; you can't have an unelected person holding a job of this kind of political nature, it's nothing less than dictatorship."
A totally unelected business minister - exactly like Lord Young, appointed by Maggie Thatcher in 1987. I don't recall the Tories ever doing much to reform the House of Lords when it suited them.
"It's nothing less than dictatorship". It isn't, it wasn't and it won't be (I'm willing to bet Cameron has at least one minister in the Lords when/if he gets into power). Get over yourselves...
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214 stuartjreid
You forgot 'slipperyness'
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Brown inherited the premiership because it was it his turn. He wasn't elected by his party, and hasn't had the courage to call a general election since taking office.
No surprise then that this election-shy PM thinks its perfectly acceptable to appoint the unelected Mandateless Mandelson to the cabinet.
Mandelson says "it's all hands on deck".
Quite so. Iceberg ahoy!
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Be forced to resign from cabinet once - shame on you; be forced to resign from cabinet a second time - shame on the PM; be appointed to cabinet a third time - pity the British Electorate.
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Chuck E Hogwash,
Your odious comparisons of Boris to a mob boss and anti-Nu Labour commentators to Mugabe's murderous thugs us just indicative of your state of mind.
In the ranking of political insight, you are no Blofeld's White Persian but more of a Miss Slocombe's Pussy.
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charles
My apologies for insulting your intelligence.
I have no political allegiance, but I am very worried about the future, and to be honest there is not a single politician I feel I could trust to get us out of this mess.
As stated by John constable in post 193 (which was after my post to you) to whom I say Hallelujah, there is a debate going on on here between two sides who are absolutely poles apart and achieving nothing because its all points scoring and nothing else.
As JC States, if the debate on here is indicative of things out there in the country then its no wonder we are in the state we are in.
Politics seems to be about points scoring and getting to the top for personal gain rather than what is good for the country.
I asked you the question I asked in a vain attempt to open a sensible debate. I can only guess at the real reason you didn't answer.
I think I will assume that you are just having fun on here winding people up.
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Herewith a typically skewed BBC report
Headline
Teachers want canes in class again
But when you read the report it says:
One in five teachers think they should be allowed to use a stick called a cane to hit you if you're really naughty.
Since when is 20% enough to warrant that headline
Where will it end?
25% of the eligible voters voted for Labour therefore they have a mandate to ruin the economy!
Whoops been there done that.
Further in the report Newsround quantify they number of teachers, check this out:
Now loads of teachers say some kids are so badly behaved in school they think bringing back punishments like the cane is the only way to control them.
Now I know that Auntie Beeb is payed via the government but why did they have to employ treasury statisticians.
This clap trap is exactly the same sort of stuff as the tripe that comes from 10 and 11 Downing Street and Millbank
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stuartjreid @214
Another Draper Drone?
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Looks like New Labour is back in town after a period of absence. Lets see what happens next.
Having seen the recent Tory conference, I feel there is no real alternative to Labour (and Labour have not, in my view, being do a good job). So anything to fire up politics gets my vote.
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#226 MaxSceptic
I just scroll through these posts now, saves me time and energy. Sometimes, if they're not too long, I'll read them for a laugh.
I'm put in mind of a gauche teenager who has discovered some long words, has read his first "grown up books" and now wants to show the world how clever he is.
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So he is back! Despite multiple resignations (or was he sacked?) over matters which show his attitude to honesty and integrity in public life.
If ever there was any doubt about the depth of contempt in which politicians hold the UK electorate this proves it.
How can the British public show their utter disgust at this appalling appointment?
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What do the DraperBots do at weekends? Are they plugged in to charge and reprogrammed with the latest issues of the Sunday Mirror and Observer?
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They really are all crawling out of the woodwork. First Mandy (such an apt name) and now Margaret Beckett. Poor old Brown seems determined to nail down Nu Labour's coffin once and for all.
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People in my area are saying Mandy's been brought in to take over from Brown.
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I suppose after all that time in Brussels Mandy is sufficiently funded not to require a mortgage this time; even assuming one were available.
I think the ploy is that he is just the man to get Labour re-elected. I will say this for Mandy that he stuck at nothing to get Labour elected in 1997 and in 2010 Labour will be fighting for their very existence. The Tories are going to suddenly find life is going to get very tough indeed.
Politics is going to get very tense over the next couple of years. I just hope that the electorate are treated with some intelligence this time.
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jonathan_cook inserted this from the guardian about Mandy Thanks jonathan:-
"Be in no doubt, though: it is a brave ? and desperate ? throw. Mock him, despise him, insult him or deride him, Mandelson is without question one of the major figures in British politics of the past 20 years and the kind of "big beast" that Brown's often hapless cabinet has so manifestly lacked."
Tut,tut guardian! Adolf Hitler was a major figure in twentieth century politics. Good job he's dead (allegedly) he might be up for chancellor again. Peter Meddlesome and Gondor Brown (nose) are certainly trying to comply with "Tory Blair's three strikes and your out". One to go Mandy!
Sean Appleby-Siimpkin (schnicklegruber)
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Anyone got a wooden stake and some garlic ?
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Gobsmacked is the word Nick. I'd have expected Brown to call up Elvis before Mandelson.
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Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer.
Then appoint Nick Brown as chief whip.
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I've been around enough real life hoods and spivs to know them when I see them. Money and technology are just a means to an end: Eton and the internet churn them out on a conveyor belt. Thatcher 2.0? Web 2.0? Old ego meet the new ego.
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To 64, 102 and 214
Peter Mandelson lied on his mortgate application form. That is fraud. Still he will fit in well with a government that presented a fraudulent manifesto promise in respect of the EU Constitutional Treaty at the last election and then lied that the Lisbon Treaty was different.
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I do not think Madelson comes over well on tv - he does seem to convey a "shiffty" image - maybe he could just about get by under Blair's wing, but with Brown, who also is extremely poor at presenting an acceptable tv face to the British public, I suspect incorporating Mandelson into the cabinet will simply begin to undo any little recovery Brown seemed to have been making over the past couple of weeks and will hasten the previous downward trend in the government's popularityl.
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good old labour!
wait a couple of weeks and all is revealed. no wonder brown had a decent party conference, this is not a reshuffle, this is his part of the deal that has saved his job at the labour conference.
alistair campbell hovering around behind the scenes at the recent by election losses, a surprisingly confidant showing from brown at his conference, now we see mandy and beckett back, hoon returned to a serious cabinet post... smells like a "do this or lose your job" reshuffle
as for mandy's appointment being a surprise, quite the opposite - BBC and others reporting hoon was on his way out when paxman got him to reveal discussions about the EU position, he admitted there had been discussions but stated they "were not about me" - journalists got the wrong end of the stick is all.
in june 2007, arriving in Downing Street after accepting the Queen's invitation to form a Government, the man who has stood in the shadow of Tony Blair for 13 years, first in reforming the Labour party, then in office, said that he would bring change to the country and invite talented people from across the political divide to help him.
"Now let the work of change begin," said Mr Brown
you tell us mr brown, you tell us.....
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214 stuartjreid
Regarding Meddlesome Mandy:
Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action.
Oscar Wilde
Goordon is determined to punish us!
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Think ChuckE must be GB, just a nom de plume, floats his latest brill idea online in between phoning the electorate then next day bingo. Not altogether sure which name to appoint, but a win every time. Keep it up ChuckE good stuff.
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Nickj781 @230
Draper Drone?
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E_Murdstone @231,
I'm glad you read the comments for a laugh.
Why else would one read them?
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I don't do "debate". If you wanted to avoid propping up the point scoring you complain about you wouldn't do "debate" either, or prejudge, or demand, or posture, or wring your hands. You would "discuss".
I'm not here to pump out essays on demand or carry other folks sack for them. I'm just a Zen Buddhist with a point of view. That's it. Read some lectures and essays by Alan Watts. It may fill in some of the blanks.
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By bringing someone in from outside the bubble, Brown has done exactly what he should have in order to liven up his cabinet, the only problem is that he has chosen the wrong person!
He should have chosen someone who is intelligent and witty, has integrity, with true Labour values and is well liked by the public i.e. he should have chosen Bob Marshall-Andrews.
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This must be the most arrogant political stunt in history. Millions of UK citizens deserve to be made a Lord before Mandelson.
He should never be given a position in the House of Lords and for Brown to make this move proves that he is the most impotent Prime Minister ever. He has never been given the right to be Prime Minister by the British electorate.
It also proves that the Labour Party has no talent whatsoever and is incapable of forming a Government worth the name whilst making dishonest politicians Lords of the Realm and Ministers.
Brown's culpability is infinite and before this goes any further the Queen should refuse to have Mandelson in the House of Lords, sack Brown and his failure of a Government and dissolve Parliament. Only after an immediate General Election will this country once again become a democracy.
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"The binary politics that we witness on here i.e. Labour .v. Tories is tedious in the extreme" john constable
forgive me sir but are you suggesting the old liberal mantra would be better?
the one that starts with "the voting system is fundamentally flawed...."
lest we forget how short the memory is for the liberal party:
remember 1997 GE when blair thought he was going to get a hung parliament, so junior cabinet posts were offered in return for paper candidates in areas where labour or liberals alone could oust the sitting conservative MP. (ie, if labour were 2nd, then liberals did remarkably little campaigning and visa versa)?
as it turned out blair didnt need the help of the liberals and walked in with a huge majority - so he ignored them!
or how about a tax rising agenda promoted and followed by the liberal party whilst blair was in office, and now brown looks to be on the way out, liberal leader nick clegg has told all who will listen that a tax cutting agenda is the best way forward for britain.
liberal party policies are easily changed, simply open a window and let a draft in!
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Perhaps while he's at it he could appoint Jade Goody minister for race relations. It wouldn't really be that much more absurd than bringing Mandy back.
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Well, it should be interesting in business questions, when the Govt reposesses the houses of self certifiers who may, or may not, have declared earnings wrongly, which apparently may be an offence......
I can not help thinking it will be difficult for anyone to keep a straight face when Mandy gets to field these ones.
Can not see the appeal of the fist to Mandy - thought they did not get on. Will it all end in another painful exit?
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241:
That's just nonsense Charles and you know it!
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It was extraordinary, even by the standards to which we have become accustomed, to hear our Prime Minister straight facedly describing the appointment of Peter Mandelson as being in the national interest. Whether the appointment was indeed judged by the Gordon Brown to be in the national interest in the face of uniquely difficult times or, as some unkindly suggest, as a means of shoring up the position of Labour and himself, one has to question his judgment.
If this is what experience brings, maybe we need to bring in a novice. Speaking of which, the novice versus experience issue could do with a bit of scrutiny.
On being a novice A novice is a someone new to a situation in which he or she placed. We are told that the current situation in the world of finance is unique and unprecedented. Does not that make all politicians novices when it comes to tackling it, Brown included?
On experience. Experience is practical contact with facts or events. The telling question is not whether a person has had experience but whether he or she learned from that experience. Gordon Brown served ten years as Chancellor. Did he improve each year as he learned from experience, or might it be that his rigidity of thinking and propensity to ignore the opinions of colleagues and advisors mean that he has experienced a lot but learned little?
Is he a man with ten years experience or a man with one year’s experience repeated ten times ?
Reality check. The reality is that any politician in the current circumstances will need to listen to expert advice then make judgments and decisions based on his or her assessment of the issues and options, taking account of that advice. On his past record, does Gordon listen to advice and contrary opinion? Whether or not he does, has his decision making been timely? Or sound?
In terms of the unprecedented situation with which he would be faced, Cameron is indeed a novice – but so is Brown in that respect. On listening, taking advice and decision making in Government, it is true Cameron is an unknown quantity. The question is, however, does the unknown quantity which is Cameron represent a bigger risk that the known quantity which is Gordon Brown?
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When you remember that Lester Piggot was stripped of a well deserved knighthood for one offence, one wonders how Manleson can be ennobled after two! Double standards or what!
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It's really not appropriate, Nick, for a supposedly respectable broadcaster to be using down-market, 'chav's' expressions like 'gobsmacked'. If you want to be taken seriously by the literate and cultured section of the BBC's audience, you need to refine the language somewhat.
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Excellent move - though an avalanche of cliched, knee jerk reaction and received opinion will no doubt claim otherwise. Mandy is a battle hardened fearless character, has a keen strategic mind and will be trenchant defender of policy. He will be an excellent lightening conductor for government. Expect frequent appearances on Today. That he is so clearly loathed by Labour's political enemies is all the praise and encouragement he should need. There are lots of instinctive Mandy haters out there. It is my belief that his sexualiity and religion form the sub text to much of this dislike. Some individuals should reflect on that before unleashing further vitriol.
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Oh my word Chuckie...@241.
So not only do you mix with the political elite, you're buddies with the Mob!
Just go away ...take some more pills ..and have a little lie down.
You'll feel better for it..honestly,sweetheart!
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1BritDem @ 232
... "How can the British public show their utter disgust at this appalling appointment?" ...
Well, they can take a leaf out of your book and write ignorant, half baked nonsense on the BBC blog can't they?
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and so we had the first proof of an unknown lefty criticising Mandelson.
Had it been for that loony lefty that opened his mouth, Labour would not even exist.
By the way Nick, you too did not see this one coming.
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Hey..you still here Chuckie? ...Zen Buddhist,are you?
Believe in the Flower Sermon,do you?
"I possess the true Dharma eye, the marvelous mind of Nirvana, the true form of the formless, the subtle dharma gate that does not rest on words or letters but is a special transmission outside of the scriptures."
Please then, follow the scripture...and stay silent...thank you
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Murders @ 231
... "I'm put in mind of a gauche teenager who has discovered some long words, has read his first "grown up books" and now wants to show the world how clever he is" ...
Now look, maybe it's true that Max's stuff comes over like that but maybe he IS a teenager, did you think of that? ... yeah, well maybe you should have before weighing in with your insults, don't you think?
(Sorry Max, I know you can defend yourself but I particularly didn't like this one)
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No more or less nonsense than any other bundle of words. But, the key point of power and ego is sound enough. One only has to give some people a smidgen of power and they abuse it to the hilt. It's almost like the effect the feintest whisper of a girl's skirt has on some men, or a box of chocolates on some women. Grasping, grasping, grasping. Always grasping. Like the evil eye of the media it's never satisfied, always hungry, always wanting more.
One wonders if when faced with a situation some politicians might pass no policy, media print blank pages, and fingers stop pounding keyboards. All this business, around and around, boom into bust, bust into boom, left then right, hot then cold.
I note, the Alistair Darling sagely commented that whatever is done it's going to hurt a bit. The controlling rich demanded more of the same, so bail-outs were offered. Panicky customers demanded safe money, so guarentees were offered. None of this worked. Letting go of control and safety nets, and settling on mere ordinary and everyday calm is the end game, and the journey between here and there is grinding some folks into dust.
Golly. Someone is paying attention.
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Well when the country is facing a financial crisis, it probably makes sense to appoint someone with first hand knowledge of people living beyond their means and making dodgy mortgage applications
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And just how many businesse has Mandy run? GB must be barking to bring this Trojan Horse of Trouble into his inner circle.
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Serendip @259
Draper Drone alert.
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I'm well disconnected. Must be the aftershave. Hic.
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I did'nt know the child catcher was so popular until I read this blog!
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Is this the same man who has had to resign twice from the Government in disgrace?
If I told untruths in my mortgage application it's not another spell in the Cabinnet I'd be facing but a spell at her majestys pleasure.
How foolish of Brown to bring him back. Says more about him and his government than anything else he has ever done
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#239
He probably did ask Elvis first -- but he still has a reputation to protect.
Funny that BBC insists on reporting that 'Ruth Kelly' will step down as an MP at the next election.
I think the phrase they are looking for is "will not be contesting the seat".
Come the next election all MPs are automatically out...
I suppose it 'bigs' her up a bit.
Roll on top slicing -- bye bye BBC.
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Oh, jeepers.
Stephen Carter gets a Knighthood, moving him into junior minister for communications, technology and broadcasting. Well, at least the berk is out of Downing Street. Things should start improving there and make Steve Richards happy, as he's moved onwards to focuses on his core "competence".
Okay, what's this guy gonna do about enforcing the law over data protection and privacy that the ISP's have been screwing into the ground with Phorm? Has he got the stones to stand up for customers against his old pals in NTL (now Virgin Media), or is he just another chickenhawk?
Make my day, or something.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I think it's the French coonection! Tony could do French (apart from calling the then French Prime Minister (I think it was) his 'boyfriend...) Maybe Brown thinks he can pick up a few tips from Mandy about how Sarkozy got back in favour after the disastrous 'cat-walk' meetings with is lovely wife all over the world...? Maybe not...
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It is supposed to have said of Charles Haughey that it could only be said for certain that his political career was over if he had been buried in the centre of a crossroads with a wooden stake through his heart and even then one would have to carry a clove of garlic to be sure.
It appears much the same can be said of Peter Mandelson.
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I think Charles is a shrink.
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Is Peter Mandelson actually an MP ?
Who was he elected by and how is he accountable to the electorate ?
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Chuckie @271.
Hey Man!...I'm beginning to like you.
Please do not rise to my comments @265..unless you feel the need to!
;-)
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Max Sceptic @ 270
Half Wit alert.
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Nick!
I think you should be studying ALL the government info released today.
Somewhere, deep, deep down there is some VERY bad news....all obscured my Mandelson mania
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god help us all is all I can say to the weeks events.
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Peter was innocent on the second time.
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the real truth @ 274
... "Funny that BBC insists on reporting that 'Ruth Kelly' will step down as an MP at the next election. I think the phrase they are looking for is will not be contesting the seat" ...
Oooo, interesting .... very sinister little slip there from the Beeb, isn't it? Pretty much proves they're in Labour's pockets, that does. Well spotted that man!
Hey, didn't we agree that we were going to change that rather inappropriate user name of yours?
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280. U11714077
No he isnt, he is appointed by Mr Brown
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226 maxseptic
In the ranking of political insight, you are no Blofeld's White Persian but more of a Miss Slocombe's Pussy."
In the ranking of jocular insight you are Mr McGoo.
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Max Sceptic @ 270
Two rashers short of a full English alert.
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What get's me is, and I apologise in advance if someone has already said this (only read to post 70 whilst laughing my head off...key post number 12 (I think) re Countryside! But...Nick has posted on his blog...oh yes so gobsmacked but he has to turn it into a back-handed compliment:
"Peter Mandelson is back. Gordon Brown, for so long said to lack courage and to be unwilling to reach out to his enemies in the Labour Party, has now confounded his Blairite critics by putting Mandy back into the cabinet."
Such courage! Well done Gordy...NOT! ick...wake up...break the chains...you don't HAVE to toe the aprty line...or maybe you do, but it is a bit tiresome.
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# 252
If you are really interested in what I think ... and I don't see why anybody particularly should as I am the original 'insignificant dot', then please click on my name above this post and you can then read my previous dross.
Whereupon it would become clear that politically I am an English independent who fervently hopes that Alex Salmond and the SNP manage to achieve their objective of full independence for Scotland around November 2010, thus also setting us English on a more interesting political path.
Thank you.
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So, now that Dad's Army are back (Prescott still to come)how do Mr and Mrs Squeers(Balls and his missus) think about this?Balls has gone from Uriah Heap to Mr Squeers and back to the found-out Heap in 2 years!!
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Just in case folks missed it (cuz someone got twitchy over my last post), Stephen Carter has been moved out of Downing Street. Like Mandelson returning, I thought calling this was a long shot, so I'm pretty pleased with that result.
Downing Street has been a weak spot and, I think, the cabinet could do with an expert like Mandelson in an overwatch mode. Folks need room to breath and the cabinet needs some polish. Today's move delivers this in spades. Excellent move.
The Labour party conference was better managed and had resonance. This has always been a weak spot of the left. The Tories are capitalising on this weakness but by continuing to raise their game Labour is rising to meet peoples expectations.
I've been trying to like me for ages but can't quite seem to manage it. Tell me, how did you achieve this miracle?
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For once, I am not blaming the politicians.
Brown has just rearranged the deckchairs, in terms of some new Government departments and economic initiatives and all the 'feral media' can do is go on and on about Peter Mandelson.
I can see that Arthur Scargill had a point when he described the media as 'these jackals'.
Worse, if this forum is any guide, Joe Public follows the media lead and also fixates on the personalities rather than the very serious issues that we currently face.
Time is very precious, the most valuable thing we have and so we need to use it wisely.
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"JohnConstable wrote:
# 252
If you are really interested in what I think ... and I don't see why anybody particularly should as I am the original 'insignificant dot', then please click on my name above this post and you can then read my previous dross.
Whereupon it would become clear that politically I am an English independent who fervently hopes that Alex Salmond and the SNP manage to achieve their objective of full independence for Scotland around November 2010, thus also setting us English on a more interesting political path.
Thank you."
............................................
I think you should go back to painting...
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#266 Sagamix
Sorry, I think you've got you're wires crossed. If you read the post again you will hopefully see that Max is not the subject.
People have their opinions and their political persuasions. I hope I can respect their right to hold opinons that differ to mine. After all, in the final analysis, it is one person, one vote. What I despise, and sometimes comment on, is hubris, hypocracy and a lack of humility.
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Is it politicians or the POLICIES of the politicians that affect the wellbeing of the electorate?
What on earth can Peter Mandelson truly offer the people of country?
He is just a sneering soundbite Politician. What has he ever done of any siginificant for Joe Public in all of his political life?
Just a complete waste of media airtime.
Reporters should be concentrating on what on earth the Gov't id going to do to get us out of the mess they have got us into!
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293. Charles_E_Hardwidge
Ref that last para
Most of us are with you chuck.
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JohnConstable
Scotland is just a troublesome little colony with a little oil.
Who cares?
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#'s 219,223, 229,245 ... :D
Hey, you've at least got to admit that Mandleson is not your average politician, whether you agree with his personality, style and politics or not.
I think it's refreshing.
After all politicians come and go and tend to be populist and flip-flop over issues constantly - see a man called Cameron for an example.
Personally I want my politicians to be daring and not scared to make tough decisions. I want them to do what's right for the coutry as a whole.
It's obvious that you cannot please all of the people all of the time, but at least Mandelson will stand up to Brown and the fact he's unelected and "safe" in the Lords might be a good point - he should truly be able to do what's right outside of party constraints.
That, and the fact he now has something to prove :D
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As I've been censored once again, I shall try for a third time. (Maybe I've been a naughty teenager).
Chuck_E_Hogwash @241wrote:
"I've been around enough real life hoods and spivs to know them when I see them."
Is there any aspect of human existence that you haven't either experienced, initiated or foreseen?
If you are so omniscient how is it that you are such a figure of ridicule?
(Very much like the political figure you revere so much and with whom you share - or so you tell us - a personality type).
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sagamix @289,
Nice one!
Are you cruisin' for a bruisin' ?
;-)
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C_E_H
Wouldn't it be good if Nick got together with Robert Peston?
Peston pointed out that at the end of last year, banks had a deficit of GBP625Bil between the money they lent versus their conventional deposits.
While, in 2001, the funding gap was zero.
Whon was in charge of the Treasury? Gordon.
What did his fabulous tripartite BoE, FSA and Treasury do to limit the amount of short-term borrowing by the banks, to lend long-term?
Just about nothing as far as I can see.
So this illustrious Chancellor allowed UK banks to do completely stupid things. (Borrowing more than the total tax-intake of the UK government, to build the biggest bubble in our history?)
How is that a "global problem"? That's simply a local UK government wanting to live on the back of totally predicatable and forecast "financial" - not real - growth, so the tax-take would allow profligate spending.
Politics, a the moment, is focused on economics.
Surely even you can't believe that building a castle on sand was not a great idea.
All the other stuff about Mandleson and the Ministerial re-shuffles is ephemeral nonsense.
Brown claimed credit for long-term growth. But has never accepted that it was built on a fallacy. When it went well, it was his input. When it fell over (as it had to) it was all the fualt of a stressed global financial service.
Rowlocks.
He allowed British financial institutions to do stupid things. That's what governments are supposed to stop. Just like limiting the absurd personal credit levels that has characterised this adminstration.
Just how much of our money has been put into genuine, growth-creating enterprises or ideas? Not a lot. Who could have changed that? GB.
Did he?
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Actually, that Mandy bloke knows a thing or two:
Mandelson: "Brown's record on economy is overblown. Brown's economic record is 'not all it's cracked up to be' (The Sunday Telegraph, 8 January 2006).
I bet he put his money somewhere safe....
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Woarr ! Bluddy 'ell ... as they say down here in Somerset ! ... I used to think that Gordon Brown's main problem was that he'd made a couple of poor decision and had shot himself in both feet ... now, he seems to have completed the job by shooting himself in the head. Mandleson back in the Cabinet. ... maybe there's a subtle new agenda being played out here, but if so, then it's too subtle for me. Here is a guy who, in my humble opinion, has never been so weighed down by moral scruples that he couldn't walk upright, being invited back into the highest echelon government .... I expect bookies have stopped taking bets on the result of the next general election, otherwise I wouldn't mind investing a few quid !
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MODERATORS!
I have tried 4 times - with various modifications - to post a comment critical of someone I call Chuck E Hogwash and our esteemed PM.
It does not contain anything contrary to your 'house rules' and is far tamer than many published comments.
Kindly explain.
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304. MaxSceptic wrote:
"Actually, that Mandy bloke knows a thing or two:"
He sure does!!....
Blair kept him quiet by fixing his appointment to the EU (remember how long THAT took to be agreed)......
Now, just when he is about to be kicked out of office by Sarkozy... Gordon gives him another lush appointment....
Will we ever find out just what he knows?
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Mandy is capable of doing things (wright or wrong) if he believes that has to be done.
He would have been better as chancellor as he will some how sort the economy. I think he will be good for business.
The main problem is Brown being a control freak will find it hard to control Mandy.
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As I've been censored once again, I shall try for a sixth time. (Maybe I've been a naughty teenager).
Chuck_E_Hogwash @241wrote:
"I've been around enough real life hoods and spivs to know them when I see them."
Is there any aspect of human existence that you haven't either experienced, initiated or foreseen?
(There - I've removed all references to verbotten word combinations such as joke, looser and Brown.
Now pretty please etc., publish this.
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Crash Gordon must be desperate and weak to invite an arch enemy like PM into the Cabinet to help save his own skin. This move isn't about the country and it's wellbeing it's a cack-handed, scrapping the barrel attempt at Labour Party survival.
It's like Margaret Thatcher having to ask Heseltine to come back from the back benches to help her at the height of the Poll Tax debacle. Weak! Weak! Weak!
Next we're going to be hearing PM for PM! Watch this space, Mandelson is even more power hungry than Crash and possibly a dash more Machievellian in a slimy kind of way.
It won't work though. They'll both be out in the dole queues they are now creating within about 500 days.
They might as well give up now, pack their bags and let the rest of us off their wretched hook thus allowing us to make a fresh start.
Mandelson and Beckett and just stale failed characters from the past.
A novice with good ideas and energy has to be better than this dieing ineffective dithering lot of has-beens.
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alphaGlen @310,
Brown will use his 'clunking fist' and everyone will be happy.
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Well. Been away for a week, so I guess the Mods had to get me.
All I was saying was that adjusting the chairs on the Titanic was never going to save the ship.
Peston pointed out that, in 2007, the funding gap between what UK banks lent compared to their conventional deposits, was GBP625Bil. (More than the total tax-take of the UK government).
In 2001, the funding gap was zero.
Brown had instigated a tri-partite arrangement between the Treasury, the BoE and the (new) FSA.
So how come none of them thought that borrowing short to lend long was a fairly guaranteed way to create a credit-based boom?
Bankers have created stupid products, then convinced themselves that they were worth much more than their real value.
But if UK finance institutions were allowed to do rather silly things, what exactly were the Treasury, BoE and FSA expected to do.
I'd have thought they were expected to stop excesses. (That's what they expect of us...)
Did they? Not visibly.
Who was in charge?
Prudence Brown died a long time ago.
Politics is, at least for the moment, dominated by economics. Like many people, I'm not too happy to lie back and think of England (or the Union), after being shafted by an adminstration strong of spending but weak on value for money.
Back to C_E_H, I guess.
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#271 Charles_E_Hardwidge
"I'm well disconnected"
It's fairly obvious!!!
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311. MaxSceptic .
Your dogged determination deserves respect.
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There does seem to be a feeling that the moderators are retsicting free speech.
There was nothing liablous or inaccurrate in my origianal posting.
A simple question
and a statement of fact.
And another question - Are the bbc afraid of being sued
or supporting a particular polictical view point?
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Do Labour Party rules allow a peer to become party leader?
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Does Philip Hammond Trust Osborne?
I think the old tory splits are showing again?
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You know what I hate about Nu-LieBore?
Everything.
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#291 JohnConstable
"If you are really interested in what I think ... and I don't see why anybody particularly should as I am the original 'insignificant dot', then please click on my name above this post and you can then read my previous dross"
Personally, anyone of whatever political persuasion is worth a read and five minutes of my time if their contributions are thought provoking and well articulated.
There is nothing wrong at all in reading, trying to understand and being educated by a contrary opinion.
and
#294 same author
Would you agree Margaret Thatcher and Arthur Scargill tend to polarise opinion?? In my humble opinion the two things that characterised the era of Lady T are the miners strike and "the poll tax"
Assuming the Conservatives are victorious in the General Election Gordon Brown calls at the last possible moment, David Cameron has a similar task to that which confronted Margaret Thatcher in 1979
i.e. unpopular decisions to rectify the damage wrought by the previous Labour administration.
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320. power_to_the_ppl
Hi Pal, good to see you back again. Hope the job has turned out well.
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241. Charles_E_Hardwidge wrote:
I've been around enough real life hoods and spivs to know them when I see them.
Didn't any of them make you an offer you can't refuse?
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#298 CarrotsneedaQUANGO2
"Most of us are with you chuck"
Ain't gonna happen Chas, don't keep your fingers crossed. On the other hand, if you offered up an opinion, Left, Middle or Right, people would have something to respond to. Right now, the sound you can hear is the multiple scratching of heads.
Me? by proxy my vocabulary has been expanded considerably by following the CEH diet of flowery words and meaningless phrases
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Dear Nick (Cameron) Robinson,
Ref Peter Mandelsons' return to cabinet.
Your comments on BBC News 'as manure attracts flies'.
I found that reference distasteful, embarrassing and derogatory
As a political commentator I expect your comments to be objective and impartial.
I guess you were just showing your true coulers as 'BLUE'
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#318 ... cant see why not .. although, historically, the Tory party has been the party to promote the aristocracy to high office ... Lord Salisbury was Prime Minister until 1902 and, technically, Alex Douglas Hume was still Lord Dunglass when appointed - they didn't believe in messy things like elections in the Tory party then - in 1963. There's no reason why the Labour Party shouldn't appoint a peer into the cabinet .. Lady Amos is a case in point ... and I wouldn't mind having a £1 bet with anyone, that Lord Mandelson will be leading the Labour Party into the next General Election.
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Nick,
I hope that this allowed, I can understand if it isn't but this is a report from the Guardian about our troops in Iraq. You remember the country which we invaded and now occupy. The problem with the Blair government is that we went to war without a plan, paid for Brown when chancellor and now he is going to have to tell us what he thinks of this report. My views are well known, also we can no longer afford the Iraq and Afghanistan adventures. We and the Americans are bust.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/sep/29/military.law
I hope that this is allowed, I seriously think that this report ought to be commented on. It should be the politicians and senior officers who are brought to book over this, not the PBI.
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Still reeling after the Merry Mandy news. Wish I was a fly on the wall at Number 10. You know that sketch "Little Britain" puts on with a prime minister and his devoted aide.....
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Gordon Brown should be ashamed of himself. To bring Mandelson, who has had to quit the cabinet twice in disgrace, beggars belief. Mandelson might have been a successful spin merchant( and as far as I can tell a decent EU commisioner) but he has shown that his judgement is questionable. This has just confirmed in my mind that Brown does not care about ordinary people and wants to appeal to the business and the media crowd who Mandelson has spent his career working towards.
So much for the end of spin !!!
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325. NK_Warrington
Hey Ho, another new name appears on the horizon.
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But I thought our beloved government attached huge importance to to the EU?
Not enough, it seems, to make The Broon hesitate for a second before whistling back a senior EU Commissioner to add some "business experiece" to his wobbly team.
Speaks volumes about the scary inadequacy of Labour MPs, doesn't it?
And about the cynicism of a man who can just walk away from a presumably important job in Brussels to get a peerage and a few months of public exposure in the UK.
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For all the silly posts about Mandelson not receiving a Cabinet post because he will sit in the House of Lords:
Peter Carrington
David Young
Willie Whitelaw
All sat in the upper house in the last Conservative governments.
I wonder why so many people appear rattled by Mandelson coming back? Indeed, a lot of the Tory bloggers seem more rattled than usual. Hope the polls this week show the Conservatives returning to a 20 point lead. Otherwise they will be especially tetchy!
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What a shame Hammer Films has stopped making horror movies. Latest film "Dr (Caligari) Brown's Cabinet" starring not one Milipede, but TWO, Merry Mandelson and those frightening females Margaret Beckett and Harriet Harman. Health Warning: Elf and Safety suggest you have very strong nerves if you want to view this movie.
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Rat joins sinking ship?
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#326
"I wouldn't mind having a ?1 bet with anyone, that Lord Mandelson will be leading the Labour Party into the next General Election."
I'll take that bet on. Mandelson has no support in the PLP or the Unions. Dennis Skinner has more chance of being the next Labour Leader.
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Well. Been away for a week, so I guess the Mods had to get me.
All I was saying was that adjusting the chairs on the Titanic was never going to save the ship.
Peston pointed out that, in 2007, the funding gap between what UK banks lent compared to their conventional deposits, was GBP625Bil. (More than the total tax-take of the UK government).
In 2001, the funding gap was zero.
Brown had instigated a tri-partite arrangement between the Treasury, the BoE and the (new) FSA.
So how come none of them thought that borrowing short to lend long was a fairly guaranteed way to create a credit-based boom?
Bankers have created stupid products, then convinced themselves that they were worth much more than their real value.
But if UK finance institutions were allowed to do rather silly things, what exactly were the Treasury, BoE and FSA expected to do.
I'd have thought they were expected to stop excesses. (That's what they expect of us...)
Did they? Not visibly.
Who was in charge? GB. Who he?
Prudence Brown died a long time ago.
Politics is, at least for the moment, dominated by economics. Like many people, I'm not too happy to lie back and think of England (or the Union), after being shafted by an adminstration strong on spending but weak on value for money.
Back to C_E_H, I guess.
Just what do you believe GB's new team (old / new reshuffle) can do, when the old (experienced) team leaves all of us with a bunch of nationalised banks?
So we pick up the results of private companies' stupidity?
Great deal. Why?
Northern Rock should have been taken into adminsitration.
It was a dead duck. But a Labour heartland dead duck. So they, Bradford and Bingley - another rather stupid organisation to be bailed out by GB, are "essential" to the long-term future of the UK?
What exactly does the FSA do? Who oversees their activity?
If the government has any reason for being there, what exactly have they done to look after us?
This adminstration has never been interested in the financial realities. Just s
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Hello again phoenix, it has been too long! And ta, much appreciated, it has turned out well. Now I'm exhausted so I'm off for tonight, but I shall return tomorrow for some heavy-duty blogging, and I may even post a limerick or three... We must keep the flame of resistance alive!
Goodnight fellow bloggers!
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Also as Mandelson is not an M.P how will he be held to account by Parliament. Brown has employed a number of people in government who are not elected and have been given a role in the government of this country. In America the cabinet is at least confirmed by congress. All ministers must be accountable either to Parliament or to the electorate. If not then lets just revert to the system of the monarch appointing ministers as in the days of Charles I
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Here's a little taster:
There was an MP from Nu-Labour
Who couldn't stop tossing his caber,
He [censored] and [censored]
And [censored] and [censored],
Thank goodness he [censored] [censored] [censored] !
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
testing.... testing....
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#327 T A Griffin (TAG)
Interesting article, particularly the legal argument/opinion.
The conclusions appear to indicate everyone with the misfortune to end up in US custody will be subject to illegal means of interrogation in a misguided attempt to ascertain the whereabouts of one O Bin -Laden. The only thing which will rescue the tenure of George W Bush.
Has this question been addressed by either Barack Obama or John McCain adequately?
---
On a side issue, how does this square with
repatriation of failed asylum seekers? Will this report set a precedent in civil as opposed to military law. Will fear of similar persecution be a tenuous defence for thousands of rejected asylum applications.
I hope you understand me
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Hmmmm.... for some reason I can post a comment that includes the words
Draper
Drone
Manure
Mandelson
Stink
Spin
Stain
What's going on?
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@325
Another Draper Drone?
I agree, however, that the comparison is wrong. Manure is natural and the mess is easily cleaned off.
The opprobrium of Mandelson's dealing and spin-doctoring stinks to high heaven and has left an indelible stain on British politics.
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pat the cat @326 wrote:
"... and I wouldn't mind having a ?1 bet with anyone, that Lord Mandelson will be leading the Labour Party into the next General Election."
You are probably right.
It'll be fun watching Nu Labour march into oblivion under the banner of the Prince of Darkness.
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# 321
I don't see much point in going over the Thatcher/Scargill era, although I note that in this era, Bob Crow seems to be working hard to defend his members whereas Scargill made fatal mis-steps.
As I see it, the number one task facing Cameron, assuming he does become PM, which even now is not a 'given', will be to negotiate an equitable settlement with the Scots as they attempt full independence following the referendum in November 2010.
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Nick,
I too was very surprised at your comment this evening suggesting that Peter Mandelson will give rise to controversy as 'manure attracts flies'.
I hope and expect that this was simply an unfortunate analogy uttered on the spur of the moment. It isn't worthy of you, and Peter Mandelson doesn't deserve it, whatever one's views about him might be. Would you be good enough to set the record straight and apologise?
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So, the likely outcome is that Brown can consolidate his position, watch Mandy explode in another self-generated disaster, dismiss him, and it will be clear to all that good old Gordy is the last man standing in the New Labour project.
idontwanagrowup.blogspot.com
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69. At 11:18am on 03 Oct 2008, Onlywayup wrote:
So even though we are entering an extremely difficult economic times in the years to come because of the GLOBAL financial turmoil and GLOBAL recession, Labour is on the way up, while Cameron is on the way out.
According to the BBC analysts Cameron had the perfect time and situations to come up with bold solutions to the present GLOBAL crises and not just UK.
He did not deliver, as he has no idea of how to manage economic turmoil from abroad, he has not learnt anything from his personal mistake in dithering to advising Norman Lamont to stay in the ERM in September 1992, instead of getting out months before when it was very clear that the UK economy was yet again slipping into a deep recession.
Cameron should stick to the QC Glossy Magazine, as he has more talent to pose in front of a camera, then coming up with economic solutions behind a desk.
------------
Since when did Cameron have to deliver? He is the leader of the opposition, not the Prime Minister.
I note your phrase "BBC analysts". I'd prefer an independent analysis thank you.
Bringing Peter Mandelson into the cabinet is a huge mistake. Someone who TWICE has been forced to resign. So much for Labour ending sleaze.
Somehow I don't think Gordon Brown understands that Mandelson is deeply unpopular. To my (possibly cynical) mind it is to prevent a leadership challenge.
But let's see how the next by-election goes first. Will he be sending Mandy up?
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
If you can't manage the real economy, you don't deserve to pontificate about how real people, in real lives, should drag themselves to a better life, when you - yes you, Gordon - allowed the UK to descend into the worst financial crisis for decades?
So you are obviously the guy to drag all of us back to where we wanted to be? If you hadn't allowed an economy to get out of control?
Just go away.
I like people. Don't care whether they have little or lots of money. It depends on wht they want to do with their lives.
I really don't like people who feel that the folk who try should be hampered by and must support either business or personal failures.
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does mandy have his old tash in a box under his bed?
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#327 TAG
Thanks for your reference to the Guardian article on torture. Coincidentally, I was listening to a programme on US radio today on this very issue.
Not only is there a significant legal opinion that Bush could be charged with murder for sending US troops into a situation where some were certain to die, but there is a move to disbar the lawyers who advised him that he could do so.
Interesting times, as they say.
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Was there a tory conference?
Is anybody talking about it?
Seems, not....all...eyes....on.....labour.....
Carrots......"THATS RIGHT"
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
There are so many things wrong with this reshuffle.
First an unelected PM invites and unelected ex-MP into the cabinet.
The second is that there are no new faces... the same names and faces are shuffled around or brought in from the back benches.
Are there no new ideas or people that can be chosen to revitalise Labour?
Finally, this week seems to be a back to the future tribute for both parties. First David Cameron harks back to the Thatcher era, then Gordon Brown takes us back to 1997.
Is the future really going to be so bleak that both parties have to be reminded of their heyday? It seems so. Heaven help us.
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Nick what planet are you on mate, if you expect us to believe for 1 minute that mandelson had no idea 'gobsmacked' that he was to be made a Lord and come back into government, then you along with gordon brown really must think we public are all stupid, mind you it could be, that it is just you Nick that is stupid, you know it's not hard to work out with hind site, alister campbell back on the scene, draper running round like a headless chicken, gordon the weakest PM ever, or is it Nick you just haven't learned from 'experience' what is real and what is spin.. political reporter Ha. more like comical reporter.
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#335 ... OK Pete , a pound it is ... I agree with you that Mandy is universally disliked amongst grassroots Labour supporters .... but he's made it up to the top of the greasy poll for an unprecedented 3 rd time ... with that kind of luck, I wouldn't bet against him becoming Queen.
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it really was wong of you to use a metaphor on the 10pm news that compared peter mandelson to a pile of manure. such personal abuse really is too much and you should explain why you think this is ok, or apologise. i generally like your analysis, but this was just a step too far.
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Still have no idea what the Mods pick up on.
Always assumed that the Beeb was a fairly neutral - factualy based - organisation.
Comment is fairly liberal - even on their shows, as illustrated by some Radio 4 output.
We - you and me - now have a new UK appointed EU Commisioner to pay for. Baroness Ashton? Who she? Where from? What politcal experience? What local examination of her credentials?
It was bad enough when Kinnock was offered that role. At least we realised he was the guy who blew it for Labour, with his "Well. All right" nonsense to arouse the crowd. And lost.
Spinmeister Mandelson is back in town.
Well, great balls of fire.
Is that all we deserve?
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derekb
Maybe, in your world, all eyes are on Labour.
In our world, labour is not allowed to deliver benefits, as this govenrment has minimised genuine productivity in place of tax-funded excess.
Goodness knows why I would wake up at this time of morning and worry about how my children will cope with the demands that GB's and TB's mismagamenet has placed on them.
Global markets have been around for a long time. Local abdication of financial responsibility started in 1997. Compounded in 2001. Big time.
It doesn't mean a thing if any individual government just wastes our money.
I have no idea why any party could not chop out at least 2 percent of current government spending. That's a few Billion.
Maybe you have that to spare?
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It seems to me that most people do not know much about this new labour. Blair and Brown made an agreement when approached by Mandelson and co. They have never been politiians of the stature of any previous Prime Minister.
Blair was a presenter and a very good one but had to be guided by someone people he trusted which is why Mandelson and Alistair Cambell have never been far away. John Smith was the real Labour choice but as he died we will never know whether he would have become Prime Minister or lasted ten years but we do know that he was honest and would not have let this lot anywhere near this lot.
I was a Labour member for forty years until 2000 when I left after seeing Blairs Cabinet. I was also a Union rep. and still in the Union.
I have seen the Conferences, Brown still had no ideas. Cameron showed his general direction but will not show all his cards before the next election because this New Labour will either pinch them or say they are unworkable if the do not like them.
In other words if Blair and Brown had to apply for the PM job their CVs would have been binned.
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"5. At 10:19am on 03 Oct 2008, derekbarker wrote:
Hmmmmmm.....What I will say..IS...this
Mandelson will take Cameron to the cleaners on a PR position...... "
Not if Cameron Comms Raiders are HyperRadioProActive Enabled with ITs Shadow IntelAIgents Servers for the Venerable Use of Networks InterNetworking in Cloud Phormations.
Which you might like to Consider is MODified with Screening for Streaming. Which is the Sort of Thing which One could reasonably have Supposed was in the Hilton Communication's Director Portfolio/Remit...... with a Veritable Harrod's Hamperful of Goodies to Alm and BroadBandCast.
Strangely and Fairly Enough, that MaJIC Mystery Pharoahs Spell is Equally well Applicable to Both and Any Worthy Third World Party. ..... a Third World of Virtualised Deeds and Bonded Words. ..... What You Give, Is What You Get Back, Enhanced and Enriched.
Be Careful what you Give, for IT Bites the Hands that Feed IT Scraps when Meat is Always Available for Free
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It's a matter of fact that before the financial issue hit Labour had a plan to create a better financial system. All the Tories could do was knee-jerk cries of "degregulation" and "government out". Thems the facts.
Clearly, Labour is pro-business and wealth creation but in favour of a better system and weeding out the duffers. The Tories would just reward failure and shareholder greed. One is change, the other is a step backwards.
Executing policy and getting the message over isn't easy at the best of times, and Tory lies and posturing has been feeding a race to the bottom media. Now the government has more confidence and skill in place, this will be challenged.
(There's some folks in here who just talk crack and attack others from the safety of the crowd. This is bad form and over-stretch. In martial arts terms, novices tend to make mistakes and overreact.)
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"The people that founded New Labour - Brown, Blair (who's in regular contact with him), Mandelson and Alastair Campbell - are said to have put aside their differences to work together again."
Two old sayings come to mind:
Thick as thieves.
and
No honour among thieves.
The common link is more than interesting!
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Fantastic news about Peter Mandelson, very happy about this. He ought to be Prime Minister.
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The Prince of Darkness is home
Let the nightmare begin
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Nick,
rather than the alusion which you made to manure, surely you could have got the Darling fellow to pass a comment like he used before, to the effect that we are 'pissed off' with this government. Either that or Jack Straw could come on and say that 'this is a mother and father of an appointment' by Gordon Brown, who also has not been elected to the post of Prime Minister.
I must say that what appalls me most of all is that we have to look at the reason why Peter lost his first government job. Was it not because of allegations of being economical with the truth over a mortgage application. Now, considering what is happening to homeowners over self certified mortgage applications, does not Gordon see the error of his decision. This is a shameful appointment. I suppose for our wonderful PM the ends justifies the means.
Also, I have just listened to the Today programme and the shocking events in Derby over the young man who jumped to his death. What has happened to our society.
We see a former minister being appointed as a government minister, via the House of Lords, whatever happened to Tony Blair and cash for honours by the way, and a young man being encouraged to jump to his death. There is no direct link but what an awful day, a truly awful day.
In the meantime the occupation of Iraq continues, and the killing goes on in Afghanistan.
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an interested reader @347 and richardp76 @360
have joined the Draper Drone club (see also @325)
Saw Derek Draper on TV last night. Political pundit? psychotherapist? He looked like one of the OTT characters played so well be Gary Oldman in his scenery-chewing best.
Why would anyone want to interview him or show him to the public beats me - unless, of course, it is to undermine Nu Labour's 'communication strategy'.
Public reaction to Draper's piece on The Gruniad's CiF was highly amusing. A cup of cold sick would have gone down better.
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There is some bloke on TV saying the Conservatives are going to be afraid of Peter Mandelson...... what?!
Mandelson if anything will accelerate Labours decline. (Thanks Mandy)
The public can't stand Mandy and he also attracts bad news faster than manure attracts flies. That means that Gordon is going to have to keep Mandy locked in the bunker with him to scheme.
OK - so Mandy is slippery and a good schemer and he will come up with lots of oily wheezes.
Problem is - that whilst the main spin doctors have been away, the wool has slipped from the publics eyes. In the real world we now know that "Labour isn't working".
Vote Brown. Get even more Brown. (with new added oilyness)
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Nick,
I see a number of people have already commented on your piece last night and the manure analogy.
At best, it was ill thought out and I'm sure you will be big enough to apologise.
Thought your analysis on the blog was spot on in terms of the "old team" getting back together and should now make it a more interesting contest between Labour and Tories.
However, the true contest will not be who can present best but ultimately who has the policies to get through the next 18 months to election time.
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Looks like Brown is going to campaign at Glenrothes himself. Excellent.
November 6th.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2008/10/03/exclusive-gordon-brown-to-join-labour-s-fight-for-glenrothes-86908-20768683/
Come on you SNP!!!
£50 quid says Mandelson is not considered and 'electoral asset' in Scotland and remains in the Westminster bunker (making oily plans - obviously)
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Derek Draper and the boys are out doing a lot of referring reasonable comments to the moderators today.
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Oh dear - the moderators are at it again.....
I shall try again.
an interested reader @347 and richardp76 @360
have joined the Draper Drone club (see also @325)
Saw Derek Draper on TV last night. Political pundit? psychotherapist? He looked like one of the OTT characters played so well be Gary Oldman in his scenery-chewing best.
Why would anyone want to interview him or show him to the public beats me - unless, of course, it is to undermine Nu Labour's 'communication strategy'.
Public reaction to Draper's piece on The Gruniad's CiF was highly amusing. Not the reaction he would have liked, one assumes.
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At a time when are soldier are fighting - and dying - on two fronts, the reasons behind the resignation of Des Browne, the Defence Minister, ought to warrant more attention.
Furthermore, will his replacement John Hutton deliver the full support and backing that our troops need.
(I suppose that it is a small mercy that Defence was not given to that paragon of ministerial ability, Margaret Beckett).
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Max @ 302
... "Are you cruisin' for a bruisin' ?" ...
Yes that would be nice but, seeing as whenever I flip in something a bit colourful about your good self, it ends up in the dark room, I think I'd better get back to "reasoned debate".
Enjoy Brussels, anyhow. It's quite a nice city.
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#376.
Go to #327, #342, #353.
Look at the injunctions taken out by the MoD against a former soldier who spoke out. I am so angry. look at what happened to Kendall-Smith. Look at soldiers acquited of crimes. These are such sad depressing days. This is not the worst government, this is the worst parliament. Cash for honours, loans to a political party. All gone silent. Oh, and I haven't forgotten about MPs expenses.
A son of the Manse, you couldn't make it up.
When I referred to a government of national unity I did not mean bring back Peter Mandelson, and other Blairites.George Osborne to be the new chancellor, Darling is toast.
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376 Max
Totally agree. Labour have treated the armed forces with contempt.
The armed forces are the main area where Labour's institutional inability is causing deaths. (Apart from early release of dangerous prisoners and Labours inability to get on top of violent crime)
What are Des Browne's reasons for resigning?
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Oh dear oh dear this adminstration, I won't say government !! What's next Robert Maxwell in charge of the Pensions Ministry? Every morning I wake up and thank the good Lord I am emigrating soon.
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#380
I was going to comment that Robert Maxwell was dead, but recalled that all this so-called government are dead from the neck up!
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cynic @ 380
We are thankful too ... free up a bit of space.
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I know that maggots breed on piles of manure. Do milipedes also thrive in such muck?
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Andy Mandy and Weed. Slobalob.
Here we go looby loo.
Woa. Call a General Election.
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Who will lead the Ministry of Funny Walks?
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Nick,
I was watching your questioning of Brown yesterday. You asked the PM - I'm paraphrasing here - "Are you in effect, setting up a war cabinet to tackle the economic crisis".
A straight forwards question......... Brown dithered and waffled and trotted out a few words, went around in circles in a mire of confusion.
Brown could have achieved some credibility if he had just said "yes - this is just like a war cabinet - we need to react to fast changing situations that have both international and local consequences"
......... I suspect Brown couldn't answer the question straight, because the real reason for both Mandelson and the "War cabinet" are to try and save Brown's skin.........
The real purpose of the "war cabinet" will be to meet on a daily basis to try and stop presentational gaffes during the economic crisis.
Their purpose is to stop gaffes such as when they held a PR stunt where Ed Balls was shown playing drums in a school on the same day a bank went under.
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Derek Draper's article in the Guardian yesterday on Mandelson has drawn a huge and almost entirely unanimous response on-line.
There are some great comments - for a laugh see this link
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/oct/03/mandelson.labour1
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to JC at 386
the real reason is that he is still refusing to state that this country has a problem.
He always dodges these sort of questions for fear of any supplementaries
I really don't know what he's going to do when the recession is actually Offiial.
But I know for one thing I want to watch
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359
I think he's ticked that box already
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No post conference poll bounce for the Tories then according to today's You Gov Poll in The Telegraph.
Amazing, given Cameron's fantastic and staesmanlike speeches in Birmingham. Even more surprising since Osborne gave the "greatest speech by a shadow chancellor ever" according to DC at least!
For everyone on here who thinks Dave Cameron can stroll to a landslide victory in 2010 some quiet reflection is now due!
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The parallells with NUFC are truly astonishing... and we all now how well the third incarnation of KK has gone don't we.......?
Is it only me, or are we expecting Prescott back in a few months to give a sweary press conference like Kinnear?
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Sky9 @ 389
Hilarious you are, aren't you? ...
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As the cleverest man on Planet Hardwidge, albeit its only occupant, why has not Charles E been invited to serve on the new Economic Development Committee, with direct access to the Prime Minister ?
After all, Gordon bases all his decisions on CHE's pearls of wisdom. Having him on the team would avoid GB appearing to be a ditherer whilst he awaits CEH's latest blog entry along with the rest of us mere mortals.
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That's a good comment by Draper. I see some folks in here are tub thumping but the thing is, guys, everyone knows it's just a bag of wind. Most of you are just siding with Cameron just because he's the "alpha dog". He doesn't have anything more than bluff and that's becoming clearer every day.
I tend to think that as folks see better solutions emerge from Labour they'll grock that quick enough. Osborne is already a laughing stock and the Tories are beginning to tear each other apart. When the trickle turns into a rush that election might arrive sooner than people think.
I'm bored stiff hearing from the usual suspects who bang on about unions and the military. When both have modernised and been re-equiped the malcontents have been left behind fighting battles of yesterday. Some call this self-harm and the Tories are happy to sell you razors.
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"Things can only get better"
Excuse the pun......couldn't resist it.....
So Cameron score's nil points.....for conference speech.......
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I do wonder where some of your contributors come from. How often does honest, fair, just or honourable appear in any sentence about politicians. Those that get partisan about it, either way, must be those 'safe' voters whose reliability makes politicians life easier and politics 'boring.'
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This is typical of Nick's headline chasing and attractive to the macho back-slapping culture that got us into this mess. You guys are so addicted to pork scratchings and drowning 10 pints of lager at last orders you couldn't taste a decent meal and bottle of wine if you were force fed. Man, I hate to think how you'd perform if you took off your tinfoil hats and dated a real girl.
Huge and chaotic issues can benefit from a more nuanced and calm approach, and plenty in the media are abandoning the old shrill and hysterical model for talking up maturity and wisdom. It can take a while to grok this and find the language but as folks become more familiar with it then the message will take on its own life, and you folks stop panicking like a buncha virgins.
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Nick
You haven't used any perjorative terms such as "TOXIC" in relation to Mandleson.
Do you reserve such langauage for Tories?
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I am stunned that this man has made it back in to a direct position of power over all our lives yet again, but I am also amazed that there are ways to get someone who is not an MP in to the cabinet. I did not know that members of the Lords were eligible to serve in a cabinet posiition. Nick, can you please tell us if there are any previous examples of this?
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The puzzle to me is whether this Mandelson move was all about money.
If this is "Old" New Labour then perhaps they have access to donors again.
If they don't then I query how willing the Unions, who always complain but always cough up, will be to bail out what are in effect their enemies? 10p only got withdrawn after the row not because of planning and sentiment.
So Nick the question is are they bust and are the wolves closing in hence the desperate moves?
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The calm sense of peace radiates out to the many...........the purpose of exposure and a fleeting glimpse of what conservative means,
Is nutured as the childish act of eliteism.
The apostle virgins, have turned a whiter shade of pale.............and the crowd call out
Peace be with you brothers!.........never will there be a conservative who progresses to the challenge of change.
......................................................................Wisdom.......has won the day!
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243 maxsceptic,
now isn't that how it should be,
"Hmmmm.... for some reason I can post a comment that includes the words
Draper
Drone
Manure
Mandelson
Stink
Spin
Stain
What's going on?"
Hummmm...I wonder if I will be as lucky as you. will I be saying, for some reason I can post a comment that includes the words
Roll on 2010.
Snitch.
PPL.
Snitch, Oh!I've already done that one
Haven't I.
Referrer.
Moderater.
Watch this space!.
Or may be you wont.
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FOFLMFHO! What else is there to say?
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344 maxsceptic,
Please Max in view of your vast knowledge of politics please enlighten this ignorant soul with the below.
You say,
I agree, however, that the comparison is wrong. Manure is natural and the mess is easily cleaned off.
The opprobrium of Mandelson's dealing and spin-doctoring stinks to high heaven and has left an indelible stain on British politics.
Do you mean in the same way that Lord ashcrofts illegal payments to the Tory party are leaving a stink to high heaven and is weekly spreading the stain over british politics, that can be seen constantly.
However I've yet to see where Mandelson has left a stain on british politics.
dont attempt to ridicule me just try to point out to me what warrants your attack on Peter Mandelson. not your opimion just the facts, I am always ready to learn.
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Labour will certainly have a gay old time at Christmas. Ghosts of Christmas passed.
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345 Max Sceptic,
I thought the prince of darkness was Michael Howard, your not telling me he's joined the labour party are you? they all suddenly want to cosy up to GB so it wouldn't surpprise me.
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Is this right?
Mandelson had a creative mortgage. Now he is bought back to stop more creative mortgages (in a capacity as one of the big 3 in the new economy committee.)
Is that bank robber turned security guard?
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381 383 Pheonixarison, what a nasty little Tory you are today, cool down man you'll bust a blood vessel.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#401, derekbarker "...the childish act of eliteism..."
It's interesting that you assume that the Conservatives are and always will be, and cannot be anything other than, elitist.
But have you ever looked beyond the superficial postures and promises of Labour to see the heart of their philosophy?
According to them, people do not run society - GOVERNMENT does.
This produces a culture of dependency, where we are all treated by our "betters" as little children to be nannied and engineered:
where people cannot be trusted to do their jobs properly and have to be controlled by targets and clever initiatives from "on high";
where there is an undermining of self-respect and aspiration, which can result in a loss of respect for other people;
and where success is judged by (often dubious) statistical analysis rather than real experiences and results in people's lives (if you don't believe me on this last point, just check out the government's drug rehabilitation success: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/melanie_reid/article4870401.ece )
Now if that is not a philosophy of "elitism", I'm afraid I don't know what is!
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#411
logica-sine-vanitate,
"Adeste fideles" take a long breathe......
release......philosophy of the many.........
opposed......to the mindless act..............
of elitist fodder for the few.....................
see the pack as contented as one
see the solitude lonely one?
Peace be with you.......................................
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405 flame patricia I wonder who would refer a nice lady like that, now referring me has become someones hobby but dear dear poor old patsy.
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OOOOh all of us who learnt latin at school had better join Mr Draper pro bono publico.
If Conservatives are elitists that's fine by me I wouldn't want to try and talk estuary like Harriet Harperson and all those Socialists who benefitted from a top private education and passport into university. They all try and look flat faced and dowdy and squash their cultured accents so they can appeal to the lower classes. Caroline with a face like flint. Tony McNulty lapsing into the vernacular (doin, seein etc). I have met him and he is viscious. On the other hand I met Charles Clarke and he was charming. Rock on.
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Saturdays kids wrap up in woollen coats
spare me please patricia.........chev..chev...
May the comfort of peace come to you ///
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Grandantidote, you're at it again. By charging in as you do you just give your enemy a cause to rally against. The 1001 Tories in here don't bother me, cuz you do 10 times more damage to the cause than they do. Seriously, cool it.
Now, before you slam back at me and say I'm doing the same, I'm not. I generally gently press position and let folks collapse in on themselves, with a point here and a nudge there over periods of weeks. You undo all that in 10 minutes.
You can't force anyone to change their mind, and if you do they'll hate you for it. What folks disagree with today can be agreed on tomorrow, and you have to let that process happen on its own terms. If you try and rush it you get nowhere.
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"354. At 00:06am on 04 Oct 2008, derekbarker wrote:
Was there a tory conference?
Is anybody talking about it?
Seems, not....all...eyes....on.....labour....."
They are and everyone's crying quite hard. Not what Labour want is it? To be a total laughing stock. If it wasnt so tragic when we need a competant well lead government in charge, we get this shower of Kinear, it would be utterly hillarious.
Oh and Derek, your period key's still stuck as is the record.
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387 jonathan_cook
Read your link - Gordon Brown, by his actions, and Derek Draper, in his writing, have managed to unite virtually all the posters!
Quite some achievement.
Draper's final sentence:
This is not so much the rebirth as the final maturing of new Labour, and whatever slick spin the Tories come up with today I can tell you they will be looking at Gordon's new cabinet and be very worried indeed.
Maturing - probably more correctly rancid as in 'over the top'.
Not just the Tories looking at Gordon's new cabinet are 'very worried indeed' - a high percentage of the electorate appear to feel that way - but not for the reasons you think.
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The day after the first time Mandy resigned I saw Darling Darling walking round Sainsburys (Craigleith, Edinburgh) with 12 bottles of bubbly in his trolley!!
So arrogant, sleazy, scheming Mandy is back.
Yesterday's man for a Yesterday Government.
What did he acheive in Europe!
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Dunno what DB's smoking but he's made some good points under the different than usual presentation. Too many folks, especially the Tory die-hards in here, can't see beyond the battle and "winning".
I find it funny how the Tories will steal anything that isn't nailed down and fling it back in peoples faces. Problem is, they don't understand the material and it's blatant mud-slinging. But, it doesn't work.
When you refuse to fight folks like Johnson and Cameron, they have nothing. If folks get full bellys and don't get their houses burned down they'll tend to drift in Labour's direction on their own.
The long road is the short-cut.
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Oh Darling Darling with all that bubbly is a vision I will take with me ad infinitum! He must have been legless or habeous corpus even.
Am off to the Anglican Harvest Festival now -make of that what you will. Well, I am English and there aren't many of us left....
Bonsoir.
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382. sagamix
You may think that people up and leaving is a good idea.
But it aint the poor thats leaving is it?
Whos going to pay for your socialist regime when thier all gone.
Whos going to pay for all poor old Derek Barkers extra benefits and perks north of the border.
You can only milk the wealthy so far sagamix, when you go too far they just head off to Europe or more importantly you attract new wealth and investment.
Britain's taxes must attract wealth creators
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420. Charles_E_Hardwidge
That first paragraph is very funny Charlie.
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420 Charlie
Go on then decode 412 for us.
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#424
The milk of life carrots.
Share your bread and be contented.
Altogether now......peace be with you
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416 Charles E Hardwidge We may be basically on the same side, but old chum don't for one minute think that gives you the right to talk down to me, I may be as the old saying goes "John Blunt" but I say what I think and if that spoils what you consider to be your cunning plan then tough. You have given the Tories more amunition in this last post than I have in the last six months, by remonstrating with me in this ill considered way, you have made their day as you will see.
As for your
"I generally gently press position and let folks collapse in on themselves." you have the gentle touch of a steam driven hammer.
They may take the micky out of my grammer and sometimes my typing but I am never accused of being nuts.
So my friend leave me out of your plan and keep your own counsel.
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421 Flame Patricia , You proudly proclaim that your English and then depart with "bonsoir"
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so have I missed much?
Still look set for labour to get egg all over, per kind favour of mendacious mandy and his hoo ha band!
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408. grandantidote
I've had a terrible few days, and now you are back in "tormenting me" mode. For the last time, I AM NOT A TORY! I might be bonkers, but I'm nor certifiable - not yet at any rate. I agree with you that name calling is cheap (although you indulge), but Mandelson is a horrible specimen, the type I remember from long distant school days, who would report other boys, suck up to the teachers and torture innocent animals. If you do not cease baiting me, I will have a nasty surprise for come our annual cease-fire Xmas football match!
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" I generally gently press position and let folks collapse in on themselves, with a point here and a nudge there over periods of weeks."
Charles.
It's difficult to spot the folks on this site who have collapsed into themselves.
Maybe you've been more successful at No. 10...
Mandelson is back. A really good call (which you thought made sense).
Well, of course, we all like tainted politicians to be recycled - at our expense. Just like Kinnock and his family.
It's what politicians actually manage, rather than what they say they'll do, that makes a difference.
But, I forgot... You anticipated all the developments in computer games which I guess makes you a guru of time and money wasting. Very New Labour.
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grandantidote @404,
As you've asked so nicely I'll try to answer in a civil manner.
(I'll just summarise as I don't have the patience to respond at length).
Please provide evidence for any 'illegal payments' he has allegedly made to the Conservative Party.
Lord Ashcroft is not an elected politician. He answerable to the public. He is a free agent.
Peter Mandelson, on the other hand, at the time of his documented transgressions was an MP - paid from the public purse - and accountable to both parliament and the electorate.
His fraudulent actions regarding his mortgage application (whether or not a result of 'innocent' ignorance of the law) would have landed you or me or anyone not the best buddy of Tony Blair in deep - er - trouble.
As for his political and communication skills, whilst notillegal, and even perhaps admirable in a Machiavellian way, they are surely not to emulated or considered 'honourable'.
It is not for nothing that he is one of the most despised and loathed politicians on the current age (and that's saying something!!!). This is not just my opinion of him: check out virtually any reasonable political blog and measure for yourself the response to his comeback.
The country and the economy may have gone to hell in a handcart, but that doesn't mean that Britain welcomes the return of the Prince of Darkness.
Is your - er - 'ignorant soul' (your phrase) enlightened?
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416. Charles_E_Hardwidge
I generally gently press position and let folks collapse in on themselves, with a point here and a nudge there over periods of weeks.
I didn't know that you were also Charlene from the local massage parlour!
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When someone gives you a caution and suggests you might just be pouring petrol on the fire, it's probably a good idea to reflect on that and thank them for their concern.
When you can't tell the difference between a friend and an enemy, it's probably time to quit the game. But, have it your way. If you want to be an egoist and tear your own house down be my guest.
(And the hard left wonders why nobody would vote Labour in if they took over. Sheesh. All I can say is THANK GOD Brown is in charge and Mandelson's back. They'll bury Scargill alongside Thatcher.)
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21st century NuLabWars!
Brown v. Blair
Prescott v. Mandelson
Brown v. Mandelson
Brown v. Clarke
Miliband v. Miliband (over who gets to hold the banana)
Chuck E Hogwash v. grandantidote?
Dirtier fun than bikini-clad mudwrestlers!
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That's a fairly derogatory reprisal
supremacy of thee elitists.
Come on down and share the common bond of humanity. (its free carrots)
Open up your mind, dont try and surpass
to the point of oppression.
The harlequin has many colours
the labour party has many objectives.
peace be with you all..............................
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Nick has such a way with language, don't you think? On last night's news at ten he summed up by saying 'Peter Mandelson attracts trouble like manure attracts flies'.
Not only would he never say such a thing about a Tory politician, especially not his beloved Thatch, but it also demonstrates his spiteful mean-spiritedness.
Statements of such little analytical or intellectual merit don't really count as political commentary, surely?
Why does the BBC keep him on? I've no idea. Newcastle FC needs a new manager apparently.
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431 should read:
Lord Ashcroft is not an elected politician. He is not answerable to the public. He is a free agent.
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Most folks working on stuff have a clue what's coming down the line. It's the retailers and customers who don't have a clue. I'm pulling a figure out of my ass but most designers know what's going to happen in 5 years because they're designing the future, today. Some folks tend to see further than most. Politics is similar.
And, yeah. I resent that remark. Games development adds billions to the UK economy, and helps develop and subsidise a whole stack of technologies and skillsets which give folks something to do and enjoy, and sometimes learn from. But, if you want to diss it go right ahead. Folks will just up and leave, like Elvis Costello, and leave Britain with nothing.
Games and politics forums are much alike. Folks who know nothing tend to shout the loudest, and without reputations to uphold orsensible moderation in place they always tend to turn into a ghetto. I'm not going to complain about it but I will say that if I ran this joint it would be done differently.
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Woooops, too late. Too rainy. Nothing to weaqr. Going to stay in get a Chinese and watch Strictly.
Wonder if Brucie likes Mandy? ROFL.
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The problem that this reshuffle does not address nor the current and future governments of whatever persuasion is the economic crisis that has been precipitated by the credit crunch. Much has been made of the US mortgage market, but the UK's debt position is as bad if not worse. The total owed to banks by all Britons far surpasses the 700 bn dollars bail out agreed by Congress.
If banks are unwilling to lend to each other, there is no chance of a loan to you or me let alone businesses. The emphasis in recent months has been on the financial sector, mostly highlighted by the numerical size of the write downs of bad loans.
What happens next? A gradual "creep" into other sectors and as profit margin and sales fall so redundancies will rise.
My point? The notion that politicians can talk, spin a way out of this mess is spurious. Some hard talking honesty is required.
A big rethink is needed: it is becoming clear that some people think that loans are for life. No, they need to be repaid - the quicker the better.
South East England and Scotland are property price hot spots and by extension a large mortgage values. Why? Excessive centralisation of government offices in the capitals. This is dumb, have they not heard of e-mail or internet? For example past governments decentralized Civil Service, was it not Harold Wilson that got the DVLA sent to Swansea?
In short, the crisis will get worse, whichever party is in power and it will take time to rectify. The normal panacea of spend more or less and tax less or more are not applicable. We are talking about a major system overhaul. Regarding the reshuffle on a serious note a more daring move would have been to bring in Frank Field and John McFall (Ithink thats how it is spelt) who have served with great distinction on the various Finance committees in the Commons. For my money Frank Field is by far the one MP who is tax and benefit expert in the House.
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I can see it now.
Thatcher, Scargill, C_E_H.
All in a row.
That stuff about "THANK GOD Brown is in charge and Mandelson's back" must be to encourage people to think.
Thought.
Failed the nation.
Goodbye.
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429 pheonixarison I had always thought that you were a Tory but on the other I had thought you were one of the most pleasant of them, but if that offends you I will try not to make the same mistake. you say that I use name calling, yes I do in some cases but to posters not the ridiculous calling of politicians. If I call someone on here a name then atleast they have redress but calling a politician a name is in my view absurd and cowardly.As regards the Xmas match all contestant wiil be searched before being allowed to play, so no threats please.
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I am still staggered and angered at your comparison of Peter Mandelson to a pile of horse shit? That is not journalism but clear prejudice and the kind of commentary that demeans the BBC and its remit as a broadcaster.
I felt I was witnessing the birth of National Socialism and that it was state sponsored.
You ,sir, are a disgrace to your profession, your employer and your country.
You have undermined the integrity of your role and the institution you work for.
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"Labour's parting gift to the country will probably be to give Blair a peerage"
I think former prime-ministers automatically get a peerage anyway.
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431 Max sceptic, How nice of you to take time off from you busy schedule to take the time to summerise for me, considering your lack of patience.
I dont need to give you any proof regarding Lord Ashcroft just enter his name into the internet you will find reems of it, on the other hand have you any proof that he is a British citizen,if he is not he isn't allowed to found the Tory party.
As for Peter Mandelson you show me any proof that he committed fraud, had he of committed fraud he would have been charged with fraud ,Tony Blair or no Tony Blair.
"As for his political and communication skills, whilst notillegal, and even perhaps admirable in a Machiavellian way, they are surely not to emulated or considered 'honourable'. "
Depends on which side of the fence you sit, don't you think.
The rest of your post is not considered and is certainly not enlightening, as I am afraid it is just your, in my opinion , rather ill considered opinion of the man and using the opinions of the many Tories on these blogs as a indication that you must be right.
No I am sorry not enlightened at all.
Time to resort to grammer spelling typing or maybe time to remark about my schooling.
Good luck on Lord ashcroft.
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433 Charles E Hardwidge
I think Charles you should have considered what you wrote before you wrote below,
"
When you can't tell the difference between a friend and an enemy, it's probably time to quit the game. But, have it your way. If you want to be an egoist and tear your own house down be my guest."
You can quite easily apply those remarks to yourself and with more conviction.
it's probably a good idea to reflect on that and thank them, and as I say keep your own counsel.
If these remarks are aimed at me then your way out of touch. I am Labour not old or new but just Labour.
(And the hard left wonders why nobody would vote Labour in if they took over. Sheesh. All I can say is THANK GOD Brown is in charge and Mandelson's back. They'll bury Scargill alongside Thatcher.)
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So Mandelson will be a lord without paying for a peerage. Lord Levy and all the other peers must be doing their nuts! Whatever they say about Mandy, they can't say money passed hands, this is indeed an honorable deed!
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MR Mandleson is back.....fantastic news, Gordon Brown has made a wise move, what will Peter bring to the party? Enthusiasm, commitment, charisma, and best of all..a loathing of all things Tory he has a socialist pedigree to be proud of which will be handy now all the greedy money grabbing Tory bankers have dropped us in the biggest financial mess this side of Zimbabwe. Welcome back Mr Mandleson I was actually beginning to think that the next election was going to be a close run thing...not now New Labour will be returned without doubt.
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Charles-E-
The assumptions of assuming, ascertaining
assertiveness, assures assorted assistant associations .
Are we on the same road.............................
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Grandantidote, LOL. What's happened? Your posts have become even more demented than usual, and that's saying something. Keep looking for those marbles old chap!
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443. At 6:21pm on 04 Oct 2008, BiasedRobinsonmustgo @443
A Draper Drone has excelled him/herself:
"I felt I was witnessing the birth of National Socialism and that it was state sponsored."
LOL!!!!
Accordingly, tomorrow's headline:
Recall of Prince of Darkness ushers in Thousand Year Reich!
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Defenders of Mandy, Lord Sleeze, state that he has never been convicted of fraud, etc. That doesn't make him lily-white, and in my opinion he is Lord of the Sleeze. Al Capone was never charged with any of his heinous crimes, in fact, he was brought to trial and imprisoned for tax evasion!
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The British media suffers from the same broken fundamentals that business and finance does. It's a smarmy pitbull that thinks it's seperate too events while up to its neck in stirring them.
He has a narrow expertise and couldn't manage or communicate his way out of a wet paper bag. He's best left as a think tank guy rather than being given a brief.
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re: 447
He paid for power with his soul phoenix, just like the rest of his rotten party! But in 2010 Mephistopheles will come for what he's owed... I can't wait!
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grandantidote @445,
Mandelson's interest-free loan from Paymaster General, Geoffrey Robinson was undeclared.
The incomplete disclosure on his mortgage application was de facto fraud (although he was later 'cleared' by the Britannia Building Society who came under ministerial pressure to be leinient - a courtesy unlikely to be granted to us common folk).
Both Mandelson and Robinson, when rumbled, resigned.
As was commented at the time "The real question is if all this was perfect and above board, why did these resignations take place."
I honestly don't know much about Lord Ashcroft, but I do know that The Times have been trying to 'nail' him for years. Even they, with their immense resources, have not been able to find a shred of improper dealings. If they had something on him you can be sure that we would have all heard about it.
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Saying someone attracts trouble like manure attracts flies is not comparing them to manure.
It is a simile. (Do look it up in the dictionary if you are uncertain.)
But in this instance, if the cap fits...
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I think, Ashcroft holds dual citizenship and an active role in the governance of a foreign power (Belize). Plus, the Tories use British shell companies to funnel foreign money into their coffers from who knows where.
Kinda puts the whacky Osborne and Iffy Cameron act into some sort of perspective. The Tories and their finances are as opaque as it gets, and these guys want us to trust them? Shady is, as shady does.
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BusyPete @448 wrote:
"MR Mandleson is back.....fantastic news, ... he has a socialist pedigree to be proud of.."
Hmmm... didn't he frame and hang that 'socialist pedigree' on the wall of his exclusive Notting Hill house which he bought using and undisclosed loan from a 'socialist' millionaire and a mortgage secured with a 'dodgy dossier' application form?
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CEH
"When someone gives you a caution and suggests you might just be pouring petrol on the fire, it's probably a good idea to reflect on that and thank them for their concern."
When just about everybody realised that a credit-based economy would end in tears, wouldn't it have been good if Brown had reflected on that, thanked them for their concerns, and DONE something to avoid catastrophe?
Did he? Like heck.
Since 1997, (when we had a strong, but socially dubious economy) we have never had a positive balance of trade.
So explain what big G has done to adjust that.
Can't? Just what I thought. Trade imbalance is a failure. It started when GB became Chancellor.
Still trying to work out why many people still believe he was a great Chancellor.
Left us all in debt. Negative balance of trade. Too much government borrowing.
Kids who think they've done well. But can't write properly.
Bring back a spinmeister, so we can all "imagine" the sun although the sky is heavy with clouds.
I'm in favour of social responsibility. But would be happy to have strong police doing what they should do... Deter criminals. Not prancing around some politically correct totem pole.
That policing should, certainly, extend into the financial services who made a fortune without really knowing how the money poured in. Fraud is a crime. There have been plenty of fraudulent activities within financial organisations. Selling worthless junk - or even buying it, because you don't know what you've bought - just stuffs up some poor b"""ger who didn't know that hisd=/her "solid" bank was just out at the bookies.
What did GB do? Nowt. Great protector of our money...
GB's now going to do what? Ask the EU to deliver a fund to help small businesses. While nodding through EU and local regulations that make small businesses waste millions on rules and processes.
I would be very happy to support real, enduring support for people who try to make it through their lives.
I just don't see that from GB's perspective. I don't like people being supplicants of the state. Depending on complex, sometimes rediculous, handouts, when all they want is to keep and spend their own money.
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grandantidote @445,
My original reply was censored (why?) so I'll try again....
Mandelson's interest-free loan from then Paymaster General, Geoffrey Robinson was undeclared.
The incomplete disclosure on his mortgage application was - um - naughty (although he was later 'cleared' by the Britannia Building Society who came under ministerial pressure to be leinient - a courtesy unlikely to be granted to us common folk).
When this, er - arrangement - became public, both Mandelson and Robinson resigned.
As was commented at the time "The real question is if all this was perfect and above board, why did these resignations take place."
I honestly don't know much about Lord Ashcroft, but I do know that The Times have been trying to 'nail' him for years. Even they, with their immense resources, have not been able to find a shred of improper dealings. If they had something on him you can be sure that we would have all heard about it.
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Chuck @453,
I think the problem Labour has with Frank Field is his integrity. It unsettles them.
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#55,
The Japanese way also created a recession the length of which was measured in decades not months.
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hey guys, why can't we be friends? forget the name calling, the insults traded, the stooping to the lowest level and the general aggro between us. we are human beings.
after all, we DO have a COUNTRY to RUN!
(as imagined between labour luddite leader and his token puppets)
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What a marvellous delivery from the old chap, down there in the SE.
It really was a googly, nobody else seen it coming.
Only problem Is, his ten other team mates
are not on the same playing field?
Still at a loss to the tax and the gross
fairlyopenmind.
As they say, in your neck of the woods
"THATS CRICKET"
How is he.............stumped;,.
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It's a shame that so many messages have been censored by the moderators.
According to the guidelines, no message should be removed unless it breaks the House Rules. The guideline say: "Messages will not be removed for any other reason"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/messageboards/newguide/popup_checking_messages.html
Unless the posters who have complained are misleading us, it seems the moderators have been immoderately trigger happy. Furthermore, to publicly accuse someone of breaking the House Rules when they have not done so is potentially libellous.
Just because someone (who does not like a message) clicks on complain, it does not follow that the message should be removed.
Moderators: Lighten up!
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Again, broken fundamentals at work here. Confusion and emotionalism crowds out learning. This blog is a prime example.
Calm down. You know the drill.
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re: 464
Change 'run' to 'bleed dry' and it's spot on. Damn those filthy Nu-Labour scum.
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I dont seem to have had a lot of time this week, with all the financial markets gloom and doom and the PM's attempts to save us all from the economic abyss, to read the papers so, I settled down this evening to read through some of them. I learned a lot. .... apparently the Conservative Party have had a conference - I didn't know that ! .. and who is this Cameron chap ?
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It is obvious why so many comments by regulars are being censured this evening. I'd be willing to open a 'book' and take bets that the subject of these banned blogs is the 'honorable' Peter Mandelson. The odds are 3 to 1, not bad for a cert! All those who belong to the exclusive club of naughty boys and girls, please confirm if Yes or No you wrote about that gentleman. To start the ball rolling, I admit freely that my comment #452 which was removed, was about him.
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453. Charles_E_Hardwidge wrote:
For my money Frank Field is by far the one MP who is tax and benefit expert in the House.
You can write with sense when you want to!
Frank Field is the only MP on either side of the House who is worth a light.
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Max septic - was it a simile - did you even see the broadcast. Draper Drone? Another slice of intelligent life goes missing - although that might be being generous. Robinson clone,anyone?
This was a low moment in British Broadcasting in every sense of the word.
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Apparently he is the leader of an "ELITIST"
group called the conservatives.
Doesn't seem to be making any head-lines although.
peace and prospertity.
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I haven't had the pleasure of being censored yet, I'll see what I can do...
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
468 ppl the same disgusting inane crap how long before you start refering or are the referrals tonight yours?
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pttp, you know I jest!
THis lot shouldn't even be in charge of the proverbial p*ssup in a brewery!
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#443 - "That is not journalism but clear prejudice..."
To be honest I am not sure which side of the fence NR sits on, but I do think some of his speculation about why Brown has brought Mandelson in from the cold is worth thinking about.
A good chess player will be able to work out why his opponent has made a certain move, and of course his opponent is not going to tell him: "Oh, look I'm about to checkmate you in three moves." In the same way I think that we as the electorate are in a bit of a chess game with our politicians, and we have to read between the lines to work out what's going on. I guess that's what Nick is trying to do.
In my opinion, there are three conceivable theories as to why GB has brought Mandelson back:
1. The official explanation - that Mandelson is a "serious person" for serious times. This suggests that there are no other suitable candidates for his job among the elected MPs, and implies that Brown thinks they are all lightweights - i.e. not "serious" people. This does not exactly inspire confidence in the parliamentary Labour party!
2. It's a great act of public reconciliation in order to win over the electorate. If that is really true, then Brown must be politically inept and out of touch with people, as I imagine most of the electorate will simply see it as a cynical act of cronyism, as most of the comments here reveal.
3. It is a decision driven by the need to placate a faction within his party - presumably the Blairite faction - who are thus clearly and actively posing a threat to Brown.
For me the third explanation is the only one which makes any logical sense, and it does suggest that there's a lot of plotting going on behind the scenes (perhaps the man with the banana is at it again!). Of course this will be strenuously denied in public.
So it makes you wonder how much Mandy will be involved in his actual job, and how much he will be trying to keep the Labour government together!
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re: 478
I know skippy! I was merely venting my rage at the dregs of our society, ie. our so called government!
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re: 476
Cheer up sweety pie! I'll resurrect one of my haiku just for you:
All of a flutter,
An abandoned red rosette
Lies in the gutter.
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476 grandantidote
Don't feed the trolls!
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pttp, love your work!
got them nasty ol' mods in a flat spin!!!
or db / anti freeze/ chook isn't liking your prose!
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re: 483
Thanks! I compared Mandelson to an extremely unpleasant personal condition, and questioned the BBC's neutrality respectively. Both of the comments were true, which is undoubtedly why Aunty Beeb (or certain censorious bloggers) got their knickers in a twist!
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
466. , DistantTraveller wrote:
It's a shame that so many messages have been censored by the moderators.
According to the guidelines, no message should be removed unless it breaks the House Rules. The guideline say: "Messages will not be removed for any other reason"
Unless the posters who have complained are misleading us, it seems the moderators have been immoderately trigger happy. Furthermore, to publicly accuse someone of breaking the House Rules when they have not done so is potentially libellous.
Just because someone (who does not like a message) clicks on complain, it does not follow that the message should be removed.
I am most certainly neither a racist nor a bigot. I hate everybody without prejudice whatever their colour, religion or sexual orientation. So why should I get the reputation of being some sort of nasty? Fah, human beings make me sick!
Disappointed fellow bloggers that nobody has taken up my wager on #470.
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472 BiasedRobinsonmustgo
I did see the broadcast. Live.
I was a simile.
Mandelson does attract trouble - like a flower attracts bees.
Happy now?
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grandantidote @445,
My original reply was censored twice(why?) so I'll try again....
Mandelson's interest-free loan from then Paymaster General, Geoffrey Robinson was undeclared.
Due to stuff that the BBC moderators are reluctant to let me explain, Mandelson and Robinson resigned.
As was commented at the time "The real question is if all this was perfect and above board, why did these resignations take place."
I honestly don't know much about Lord Ashcroft, but I do know that The Times have been trying to 'nail' him for years. Even they, with their immense resources, have not been able to find a shred of improper dealings. If they had something on him you can be sure that we would have all heard about it.
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484. Ilicipolero
Thanks pal. What a shame we can't all share the joke. This is getting like Roundheads and Cavaliers!
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So some people keep saying but they never explain what they think was said. You can add the list of other mud that's been thrown over the past week. My guess is they're not paying attention, don't know anything about anything, or making stuff up.
Seriously, I've seen it all before. Kids with no vocabularly mouth off about "long words", folks who don't get metaphor scratch their heads, checkable fact is disputed, expert opinion is dismissed until some "authority" parrots it, da-de-dah.
Most folks aren't bitching about the content, it's usually something else. Like, it's novel or they feel it's getting more attention than their comments. That's a power and relationship issue - your problem, not mine. So, deal with it or put a sock in it.
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479 LSV
On th whole I'm with you on option 3,
Howeverr, I don't think we can leave out another.
option 4. PM was due to be moved out of the EU anyway, and is undoubtably privy to the whereabouts of certain historical and certainly more recent skeletons.
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I was a simile?
I case my rest.
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116. At 12:18pm on 03 Oct 2008, Charles_E_Hardwidge wrote:
'The Tories are all about control and wealth concentration. '
C'mon C'mon who want to introduce ID cards , tell us what we can put in our bins , just about tell us what we can or cannot do every moment of our lives - plus allowing a select few to benefit from our financial affairs . I'm sorry but I do not normally resort to the invective of other posters but tell me how many cuckoos are there on your cloud ?.
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#479: There could be a fourth explanation. Mandelson has made more than a few enemies in his previous job, including Sarkozy.
The last thing the Glorious Leader needs right now is a major bust-up in Brussels to remind the Brits they are still owed a referendum.
Pulling Mandelson out of the frying pan into the fire by making him a job offer he couldn't refuse could seem like the least worst option.
But plain political stupidity might be sufficient explanation, of course.
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This is a masterstroke by Gordon Brown. Not only does Peter Mandelson have loads of contacts in business as a result of his being EU Trade Commisioner for four years but he's also a master strategist who knows how to win elections and considered Tony Blair's closest polticial ally (thus ensuring no coup against our incumbent Prime Minister).
Well done Gord!
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Following Ms Kelly's abdication from pole position and "Duff" Gordon's reshuffle, my cut-out-and-keep "Portillo" list from the end of July is now outdated and so, as a public service, here is a revision including the "other cabinet attendees":
Rank, Swing, Incumbent, 2nd, Constituency
1, 3.37%, Jacqui Smith, Con, Redditch
2, 4.66%, Tony McNulty, Con, Harrow East
3, 6.52%, Margaret Beckett, LD, Derby South
4, 7.02%, Jim Murphy, Con, Renfrewshire East
5, 8.25%, Alistair Darling, Con, Edinburgh South West
6, 8.27%, John Hutton, Con, Barrow & Furness
7, 9.58%, Jack Straw, Con, Blackburn
8, 9.59%, Liam Byrne, LD, Birmingham Hodge Hill
9, 10.76%, John Denham, Con, Southampton Itchen
10, 11.82%, James Purnell, Con, Stalybridge & Hyde
11, 11.94%, Nick Brown, LD, Newcastle East & Wallsend
12, 12.15%, Geoff Hoon, Con, Ashfield
13, 13.12%, Shaun Woodward, LD, St Helens South
14, 13.37%, Ed Balls, Con, Normanton
15, 16.99%, Alan Johnson, LD, Hull West & Hessle
16, 17.48%, Douglas Alexander, LD, Paisley & Renfrewshire South
17, 17.58%, Hazel Blears, LD, Salford
18, 20.04%, Ed Miliband, Con, Doncaster North
19, 20.33%, Hilary Benn, LD, Leeds Central
20, 20.38%, David Miliband, LD, South Shields
21, 20.56%, Paul Murphy, Con, Torfaen
22, 21.79%, Gordon Brown, SNP, Kirkcaldy & Cowdenbeath
23, 23.14%, Yvette Cooper , Con, Pontefract & Castleford
24, 23.26%, Harriet Harman, LD, Camberwell & Peckham
25, 23.67%, Andy Burnham, Con, Leigh
The list may look a mess but should copy and paste into any spreadsheet program as CSV. The column headed 2nd shows the party of the runner-up in 2005, who need the stated Swing to prevail next time.
Note that the new SoS for Scotland is just off the podium in 4th and that all of the point scorers down to Liam Byrne can be removed by less than a 10% swing.
Mandy, of course, will be cheering the starters on from the pits.
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Post 500 - click NEXT below for rest
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