Agenda pressure
Why, the Daily Mail's Stephen Glover demands to know today, are "the BBC's knives ..out for Osborne" while "Mandy is getting away with murder".
Simple, Stephen, they're not. Rather than rehearse the arguments myself let me refer you to a blog written by the BBC's head of news at Westminster about why we've taken the editorial decisions we have.
The Mail has also expressed some surprise that I told the Today programme that I'd resisted pressure from the Tory party and the Tory press to cover the Mandelson story. Let me explain. I get pressure all the time to cover things that suit people's political agendas and I'm paid to resist that pressure from wherever it comes.
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Come on Nick, there are more valid stories than this.
Please note my last post on the other thread about the power station construction.
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Just give in gracefully Nick, this whole non story has been an immense embarrasment and deeply damaging for both you personally and the BBC generally.
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Nick, you have every right to consider which stories to support and which to discount. You are the journalist, the Tories are wrong to start to smear Mandelson as it suggests they have nothing better to do with their time than try and destroy Labour rather than putting forward a viable alternative.
They are the desperate ones, not you. The Conservative Party is increasingly paranoid, which is surprising given its lead in the polls; it perhaps knows that this is not a secure lead and instead of trying to put out genuinely interesting and workable policies it is becoming a nasty, lying bunch of lightweights who think they can spin their way into a 1997-style landslide.
How wrong they are.
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Nick; is that Steve Mawhinney link some kind of spoof? It looks like it to me.
The BBC's reply to the totally blatant/open bias is laughable.
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Nick,
Having read the blog from Steve Mawhinny you refer to, I'd be far more worried about your own judgement than George Osbournes if I were you.
I can only repeat Gordon Brown words yesterday "It's a serious matter, and the authorities should investigate" - only I'm referring to you and the BBC.
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Nick,
since you're obviously in CYA mode, and looking for some other topic to hide behind, I refer you to the ongoing trial of the met in the menezes killing.
Apparently, according to the latest witness, he was carrying a mobile phone and a paper, but could not be ruled out as a possible bomber. Wonder where that leaves over 90 perecnt of the population in future cases?
So, this trial is going on because the "authorities" having over-reacted to events in 2005 are busy fighting a rearguard action, and this still threatens to engulf us all. I travelled out of terminal 5 yesterday and had to remove my belt and shoes as part of the security process, whereas at City airport that isn't necessary. Nevertheless, even with nothing metallic about my person, the arch still bleeped.
The whole thing is insidious. There is no consistency between sites in the UK and sites around the rest of the EU. The whole government strategy is hopelessly complicated, and still they try to bring in 42 day, and still refuse to back down when the thing is kicked out by the upper house.
The tragedy is that a human life was unnecessarily lost, not for the first time of course under this government, but nothing is allowed to stand in the way of what our political masters think is for the greater good.
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Lobby correspondents have a fine balance to play.
They need to stay close to those in 'power' and yet deliver democratic reporting to protect Parliament and the people not just Government. If they are measured in this way the politically independent reporter will always flourish and be trusted.
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What you actually mean therefore is you only investigate what suits your agenda and the BBC's which is appalling. The BBC bias over this issue has been an utter disgrace. I know how angry people must have been, the BBC switchboard was jammed for several hours as I tried to get thro to complain, and didn't get thro till gone 9pm, and they werent ringing up about how woinderful strictly come dancing is or to congratulate the BBC that's for sure.......
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This topic is sure to be a red rag to a bull.
Enjoy the show!
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I'm afraid your explanation doesn't really answer the charges of bias brought against yourself and The BBC Nick. There is no evidence of wrong doing on George Osborne's part. No money changed hands, no crime was committed and the serious nature of the complainants one of whom is banned from The USA is dubious.
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Nick - thanks for providing the short, concise response that this nonsense warrants. I really can't quite fathom why we as a nation offer such attention to the populist bandwagon-jumping typified by the Mail and its readers. I'm positive that the likes of "Mrs Helena Carter", "Robin Scott MA(Oxon)" and "Paul, stockton on tees" would not have even heard of Deripaska or Rothschild until now. So please spare us from your infantile, asinine bleatings until you have the nous to pick up a broadsheet and gain an ounce of knowledge on the subject about which you purport to be an expert. Rant over.
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Nick,
Does not quite answer it really. The fact is that no alleged illegality took place w.rt. G Osbourne.
As I understand it the 'storm' was over whether G Osbourne might have 'solicited' a donation. The Electoral commission made it quite clear that there is no law against soliciting donations, and see nothing to investigate. And indeed no one questions the fact that no donation ever took place full stop.
So the BBC and yourself majored on a story about someting entirely within the law, and continue to ignore a story that on the face of it suggests an EU commissioner colluded to the benefit of a forigen (non EU) business man whilst enjoying his hospitality.
I am not suggesting there is any truth to the second scenario, but I am suggesting that put side by side, the two are not alike, and that the second is far more serious and worthy of explanation and investigation.
It is the appearance, whether intended or not, that you chose to ignore a story of potentially seriously inappropriate behaviour by and EU commissioner (now government minister), and enthusiastically pursued a story where no wrong doing is involved by a shadow minister in opposition that has cause such a reaction and raises doubts about the balance of the news agenda in this case.
Party funding is a serious issue, but to aggressively pursue someone for considering and then rejecting a donation that may have been possible to make legal beacuse the party decided it would not be appropriate seems to me and many other to be perverse at best, and the B word at worst.
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Nick
"I'm paid to resist that pressure from wherever it comes."
Good to have that reassurance. Some of us, not Tory supporters but devotes of fairness and accuracy, had begun to wonder.
And I hope this episode causes you and your editorial colleagues to sit down and relect seriously on this issues your coverage of this story raises.
But the fact remains that you were still suckered into over-egging a minor story because it was "sexy", and the rest of the media gave it so much prominence at least in part because you did - the BBC does still have the capacity to set the news agenda, rather than just reporting and commenting on it.
And no word too on why Robert Peston hyped it up too, way outside his normal brief.
PS
Still no comment on why the Blair / Ecclestone story, involving what appears to be deliberate "misleading" of the House of Commons, has disappeared from the radar.
How about a blog on that??
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What a laugh! Stephen Glover should be aware that no-one is fooled by Peter Mandelson who is, according to Norman Tebbit, as flea-bitten as George 'Bullingdon Bertie' Osborne (It comes to something when I find myself agreeing with Norman Tebbit!) Phil 'Wooly' Woolas must be counting his blessings after his dismal performance of the last few days! I understand he's been pulled from Question Time in favour of Jacqui 'You're free to be murdered in your beds by the massed ranks of the British Taliban' Smith.
Gawd help us!
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Let's face it, it is not the BBC bias that is at the heart of this. It is, in fact, the bad taste that Osborne discussed something openly that was meant to be private putting Nat Rothschild in an embarrasing and difficult position both as a friend and as someone looking after a client. The question also hinges on Osborne's judgement if nothing else and on a political level, where the Conservatives claim they are squeaky clean, they obviously are not. That is what makes this a more interesting story than Lord Mandelson's friendship with anyone.
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Comment 2 referred to the moderators ????
This blog is getting silly.
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And comment 5 to the mods as well.
I am doing well today aren't I !
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Looks like BBC/Labour are out again in force moderating out all the criticisms against labour.
Is that the new BBC policy? Flag/hide all anti-labour comments as referred for moderation until the topic becomes inactive, then you can unmoderate them once nobody's reading the topic anymore to fool your auditors into thinking that your moderation is balanced?
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Nick,
You are a left wing apologist, that's why the mail did this story. Someone has to balance up your pathetic Non-story about something that didn't actually happen anyway.
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So, whilst resisting pressure to act on somebody else's agenda, you might ask some pertinent questions of government ministers, in an attempt to find out if there is any joined up thinking going on.
Q1 to business minister, lord whatsisname, are we heading into a recession, as the PM and Governor of the B of E have stated?
Q2, as follow up, what steps are you planning to take to ensure new businesses open in UK?
Q3 to employment minister, how do you ensure that business in Uk offers jobs to current UK citizens?
Q4, as follow up, since there seem to be 600, 00 jobs available, how do you propose to fill those vacancies?
Q5 to europe minister, since it seems that jobs in the UK are being offered, in the first instance, to citizens of other EU states, is there anything we can do to avoid this?
Q6, to immigration minister, can we prevent economic migrants from other EU states coming here to take jobs from the indiginous population?
Q7, as follow up, how stringent are the rules to prevent economic migrants from outside the EU coming here to take up jobs when we have almost 2 million jobless people here?
Q8, as corollary, to PM, is there a cohesive plan to limit the impact of workers from other countries, including the EU, taking jobs in the UK, and impeding the efforts aaimed at domestic economic recovery?
Q9, to home secretary, if the number of crimes being reported is falling, why are our prisons full, and when will new ones be built?
Q10, as follow up, how secure is the data the state currently has on the populace?
Q11, to energy secretary, how secure are our contracts for fule purchases, particularly natural gas, and how vulnerable are we if they are impeded for any reason?
That'll be doing to be going on with, after all governments aren't just about trhe economy, are they?
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Nick,
surely any student of politics will know that one of the few powers open to the Prime Minister is to hire and sack ministers, and more importantly to set the agenda. He has actually very little power. He sets the agenda.
The interesting story is about the minister who will no longer be on Question Time tonight. Could it be that he is out of favour because he is daring to tell the truth.
It is very difficult being sane when all around you are mad.
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So you 'resisted' pressure when it came to the Mandelson story, but went gung ho for the Osbourne story? Odd that, makes me wonder why the Osbourne story was seen to be more important? Plus it was amazing watching you and Peston (why was he there?) going all out attack on it. You made the story out to be a major scandal, and whats happened? It's blown out. No-one will investigate as there seems to have been no wrong doing (despite your continued claims to the contrary).
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ITV are strapped for cash and so they cannot support a news organisation in any way comparable in range or impact to the BBC. The BBC therefore has something close to a monopoly of broadcast news.
Regardless of the rights and wrongs of this Osborne issue - it is wrong that the BBC should control what goes out over the airwaves.
If we can handle partisan and biased reporting in the printed media we can handle it over the airwaves.
We are grown ups - we can handle a Daily Mail TV, a Guardian TV, a Times TV, a Mirror TV.
We do not need "nanny" - the BBCs Head of News to decide what we can hear about.
We urgently need a free and varied broadcast news.
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Yours is a difficult job especially when you have these spin thugs trying to influence you.
The most difficult thing is trying to report accurately without someone accusing you of bias somewhere along the line.
It's easy for us bloggers because we are not accountable to those influential masters at the top.
Keep up the good work.
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Nick its OK youre Public Sector, we fully understand.
Interesting article on Radio 4 yesterday.
Channel 4 is pushing for extra 150 million of public funding. Then its announced that the CEO earns 1.2 million a year.
Spose you couldnt get anyone for less. Eh?
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I'm not bothered about what stories to run: that's your business but when Peston wanders in saying I've meet the fella and he's probably not making this up is pretty poor.
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Nick
It is of course your perogative to choose which stories you cover. However you must agree that the coverage of this Osborne story has been hysterical and totally out of proportion. Whilst it is correct to question his judgement in being involved in a conversation regarding money, noone knows the context of the conversation,no money changed hands. This appears to be driven by malicious intent by a former friend over personal circumstances rather than a specific beliet of wrong doing. It also appears to have the black hands of Peter Mandelson behind it.
This is not the same as David AbrahamS, Bernie Ecclestone etc yet is getting as much if not more media attention.
I have read the blog from the editor you mention regarding the level of Osbourne versus Mandelson coverage. I do not agree with it at all. If Osborne is flawed at meeting this man then Mandelson is as well. You say that no allegation has been made against Mandelson, however the only allegation against Osborne appears to be based on a personal vendetta rather than any level of fact or evidence
Nick - you normally report what is happening in an incisive and balanced way - your radar seems to have gone seriously into Tory bashing mode here. Please, please please - lets talk about the real problems in the country ( the economy, the dreadful financial crisis, the level of debt ) rather than this trivial nonsense
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Weasel words Nick, weasel words.
Osborne has actually done nothing
Mandelson ?...where do we start
Its not the sort of unbiased reporting we deserve and fund. It all smacks of laying the foundations for the licence fee debate when the Torys get in. The BBC will point to this as the reason the next Conservative Government refuse to raise the fee.
Shameful.
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Example of BBC Bias - see the front-page story at the moment.
Leading on the miscounting of violent crime in recorded crime stats.
Spin to make the Home Office look good I say!
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Oh dear oh dear oh dear.
We have (in no particular order) British jobs for foreign workers, serious violent crime figures massively under-reported for up to 10 years, sex education in schools, whether to cap immigration or backtrack on your statement hours later, the stupidity of wanting to return to 2007 lending levels, the government owned Northern Rock being the most aggressive repossessor of homes, and the list goes on and on.
Instead of any of those, we get a half-baked attempted justification of the time spent on the Osborne story when compared to the Mandelson story.
Incidentally, to summarise the BBC's head of news blog, it goes like this - with Osborne there were allegations but no actual checkable facts, with Mandelson, there were checkable results (the Russian billionaire DID hugely benefit from the tariff decisions) but no specific allegations. Moreover, that well known, free from corruption, organistion the European Commission says Mandelson did nothing wrong, so it must be true.
I honestly cannot believe this particular blog is apparently the most serious political story of the day.
The Daily Politics was only slightly better. It started with "5 yr olds compulsory sex education" (not true by the way), then went back to Osborne, with no indication they would even mention any of the problems listed above, in particular violent crime.
Pathetic.
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This looks promising, or might do if I could read some of the preceding posts.
However I apologise in advance if I'm repeating something somebody has already said, oh no, that's called quoting out of context, or off the record, or something similar.
Unfortunately for messrs Campbell and Mandelson, trying a repeat of their 1994-99 tactics, they are faced with having to defend a government record, of their own making, with all its deficiencies.
The ice they are skating on is thin, and trhe water underneath is cold, and very deep. We, the people, aren't stupid, and deserve better, and can't wait to get it.
Eventually you'll all get the message.
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Having watched the News last night and then Newsnight, the coverage of this story seems very one sided.
I am very disappointed as usually your covereage is far more balanced.
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Must be wonderful getting so many enthusiastic posts for a blog entry which is totally meaningless.
Are you perchance suggesting that you take no notice of any of the views expressed in any of the postings on this thread, in case they can be considered as bowing to pressure, and you're far too principled for that? Or is it that you, and your "bosses", just don't care?
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And another thing, what about Mandelson's latest wheeze. Apparently, small businesses are facing problems because banks are refusing to lend where in the past they would have.
Part of the bailout deal was this supposed "return to 2007 levels of lending". So now the banks are saying to businesses Yes we will lend to you, but the rates are higher and we need more collateral.
Small businesses are complaining that this makes the loans unaffordable for them.
So, do we act swiftly as this government likes to claim it has done so far, and bash a few heads together to bring forward a deal to help save viable small businesses, or do we dither and delay and not provide the lifeline they need, meaning many may close, meaning more job losses, making the recession ever deeper?
Well, here's what Mandelson has to say: the forum (between bank bosses and representatives of small businesses) - to be set up in the next few weeks - would hopefully help ease tensions between the two sides.
I'll type that again - IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS.
So, maybe by mid-November we'll have a few people round for a chat to see if we can begin to find some sort of compromise.
Sorry, have I not understood this. Aren't we in some sort of financial crisis, facing an imminent recession? Isn't the web of small businesses the thing that actually holds most of this country together? Do (to quote CEH) these people really 'get it'?
Wonder if Nick might like to investigate this? No, thought not.
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A nice defence there Nick " I'm not biased because someone at the BBC said so"
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Nick, I'd believe you - except for the fact that you're responding to this story. The BBC gets criticised all the time for "bias", but there isn't a constant defence as to its policy. Why is the BBC suddenly putting so much effort into defending its position - because it realises it doesn't have a leg to stand on?
Let's look at how the BBC news reported on this "story". They interviewed (on TV) the following people:
John Mann MP (Labour)
Michael White (The Guardian newspaper)
Denis MacShane MP (Labour)
Norman Baker MP (Lib Dem)
Are you trying to tell me that not a single Conservative MP, spokesman or slightly less pro-Labour journalist could be found to comment too? I doubt that very much. Clearly the BBC, at least on the TV, had an agenda to run, which was trying to make the Conservatives and Osbourne look bad.
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Nick
That doesn't even come close to answering the issues.
Noone should have needed to encourage you to cover Mandlesons part in this - you should have been investigating it anyway.
Osbourn meets someone who happens to be sharing a holiday location a few times over a few days.
While Mandleson spends whole weeks specifically visting them and taking their hospitality.
You can fein blindness to the differences, but it wont wash.
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....This topic is sure to be a red rag to a bull.
Must be the Hypocrisy
Hypocrisy can do that
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robinson,the bbc are anti tory,once you got the osborne story,you and the man with great political knowledge robert peston,could'nt wait to lay into the tories.I just don,t blame you at the bbc ,I also think sky news are more like labour news ,they have a agenda of keeping brown in power,god help if caroline spellman is found guilty for some thing that happened 11 years ago.
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I'm a Scot so don't see much if anything of the 'tory' press as it seems to be known in England. Is it the case that the BBC is trying in some not so subtle way to redress the balance by seemimgly being in the pocket of the labour Party. I really have been surprised by the reporting of this and other recent stories as they do honestly seem quite government friendly to say the least.
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The News media smelt blood in the water over all this, but there doesn't seem to be any beyond holiday trivia and a little Dallas-style soap opera.
You were probably right to go after the story in the first place, but wrong to try and keep it going so long, or to give it such prominence once it was clear that there really was no news.
Now admit it, you invested in this story, overplayed its significance, and therefore have stuck to your "Guns" in trying to make it seem significant.
OK - no donation, but this is really about "judgement",
Ok - judgement wasn't disastrous, but it is about "how it looks",
OK - how this looks doesn't really matter amid global recession, but it is about "posh tories not connecting with the public".
OK - Tories still ahead in all the polls, but it "might not last".
Reminds me a little of the whole Madeleine McCann phenomenon - the story itself grows much bigger than any news despite a dearth of actual facts.
Fess up Nick ;-)
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The BBC has seriously pi**ed off viewers by
pursuing a non event to its death.
Ignoring that which might affect all our ordinary little lives in pursuit of George Osborne and some obscenely wealthy puppet masters.
Please don't act all miffed and hurt, it is all down to not understanding the public and being so far removed from what the ordinary punter thinks important.
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So what's happening to moderation?
A post on the preceding thread to this is still waiting after 1 1/2 hours, and this one seems to be up to half an hour.
Are you being overwhelmed by the response?
Are you surprised?
Are you being overtaken by events?
Answers on another thread please, with a more appropraite theme for the current dire circumstances, unless of course messrs Campbell and Mandelson want to continue with this one.
In which case, we'll continue to bang a way at more appropriate targets. Eventually you'll figure out who's got control of the agenda.
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Robert Peston, BBC Business Editor, twice published blogs regarding the Osborne "story" on October 21st.
Nick Robinson BBC Political Editor, similarly published two blogs on the same theme October 21st and 22nd. The first of these two had no less than three updates.
My question is a simple one, what is Robert Peston doing involving himself with what clearly is a Political story?
Whichever way you turn it, and this is simply my honest opinion, collusion between the two journalists appears to be an unavoidable conclusion.
On both days equally newsworthy items on both themes were ignored.
Nick Robinsons blog today "Agenda -pressure" still leaves me none the wiser, as does the embedded link to "Storm over Corfu" posted by Steve Mawhinney elsewhere in The Editors blog.
In this instance I believe the BBC emerges with little credit and has done nothing to enhance it's reputation, such that it is.
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Steven Glover makes a compelling case.
And your reasoning Nick is frankly pathetic.
Whats Mandelson got on you?
The Tories can't openly critisise the BBC without seeming churlish. I hope that once in power they will force root and branch reform of the organisation and make the licence fee optional.
It is demeaning to have money extorted to support the PR machine of a political party.
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I'm sorry Nick. The explanation you refer to states:
"The reason the coverage [of Mandelson] so far has not been at the same level as that of George Osborne is that up until now there has been no similar specific allegation that Lord Mandelson has broken any laws. Nor, in Lord Mandelson's case, was there a specific, credible complainant in the same way as there was with Mr Osborne."
In previous (unprinted) comments, I've declared that I'm no Osborne supporter but this response is nonesense isn't it ? I will confess to be astonished and disappointed that Mandelson has found his way back to frontline British Politics which is bad for politics as a whole, so do have some bias. BUT what specific allegation is there that Osborne has broken any laws ? Even the PM made a mess of this yesterday. And since when do you need a specific allegation to be made to question a blindingly obvious conflict of interest ?
I don't really care about whether Osborne stays or goes. At the moment he's an MP and only a SHADOW chancellor. What concerns me more is that Mandelson has the more serious situation to explain and is getting away with it.
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So the Daily Mail is accusing another Media organisation of Bias.
Errmmm.
The trouble is the Mail editorial team, its readership and the majority of bloggers on here simply cannot recognise objective journalism.
You expect everything to be of Littlejohn or Heffer standards, reactionary and right wing. If it isn't the all you can see is bias.
NR and the BBC in general scrutinise Labour every bit as much as the Tories.
What you seem to hate most is the SCRUTINY of Policy or judgement.
You want to ask all the questions but answer none.
The posts on here are nothing short of an attempt to bully the BBC into submission by claiming wrongdoing where non exists.
IMO there is an organised and Orchestrated campaign , either by the Tory Party itself or a group aligned to the party which tries to dominate opinion on this blog. I doubt I'm the only person to be suspicious.
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It is all a consequence of admitting Mandelson back into any position of power on British soil. No doubt he was more conniving in Brussels and ran several rackets to his egotistical gratification. What he actually does of any use is still to be seen.
The whole Osborne debacle is ridiculous and no one out of the press gives a damn.
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2 and 5.
Mods - Thanks.
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Since someone doesn't like my post at #13 I'll put it more delicately:
"I'm paid to resist that pressure from wherever it comes."
Good to have that reassurance. Some of us, not Tory supporters but devotes of fairness and accuracy, had begun to wonder.
I'm sure this episode will prompt you and your editorial colleagues to sit down and relect seriously on this issues your coverage of this story raises.
But I still fear that you were suckered into over-egging a minor story because it was "sexy", and the rest of the media gave it so much prominence at least in part because you did - the BBC does still have the capacity to set the news agenda, rather than just reporting and commenting on it.
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Nick,
Both stories deserve investigative treatment, surely.
The problem is that it is easier to go for Osbourne since he is, quite patently, in the position of having met Deripaska with the Conservatives 'money man' and talk of a donation was in the air, while Lord Mandelson only met Deripaska and no such talk, as far as we know, took place.
The troubling thing from the news consumer's point of view is surely that the ease of the target ought not to determine editorial choices. That way lies wall-to-wall celebrity news based on photo opportunities and press releases mascarading as news journalism.
I know truth is messy, and that journalists are having difficulty discerning truth from fantasy in all of this, but surely we have the right to expect the BBC to judge each story based on full facts?
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How much longer will this so-called story drag on? Do you really expect us to believe, Nick, that there are not some rather more significant political events to investigate and report: dodgy Home Office statistics, the end of 'no boom and bust', the 'R' word - now grudgingly coming to you courtesy of our Great Leader, even the mysterious disappearance of P. Woolas from Question Time panel ... Oh, I give up, you know about all these far more than I do; after all, that's what you're paid for.
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This must be more contentious than i thought, since I can't yet read 2/3 of the posts.
DCome on mods, let's all see what's gpoing on, then we can respond, and help Nick with his agenda setting.
Perhaps he could dig up something about a tory politician heading back to his consitituency this weekend and meeting some local people with concerns about jobs and mortgage payments and health and national security.
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SimonGeorge, did you not read the Editors' blog? Mandleson's relationship with the aluminium magnate was ruled 'not inappropriate' by the EU itself, but Osbourne's alledged 'actions' would have put him in breach of a law passed only 8 years ago. The information came from a close friend of the shadow cabinet, not a New Labour supporter by any means! No wrongdoing by anyone as it turns out, but the BBC were right to go with Osbourne.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
If young Osborne aspires to be a future inhabitant of No11, then it is perfectly reasonable for the BBC to investigate the story, such as it is. (There would be no point further investigating Mandy as everyone expects such behaviour from him). It was stupid of Osborne to get himself into the whole predicament. The fact he did, does actually raise pertinent questions about the judgement of a potential future Chancellor. (Can someone please give Cameron David Davis' phone number?)
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"I get pressure all the time to cover things that suit people's political agendas and I'm paid to resist that pressure from wherever it comes."
Clearly not paid enough to resist the pressure from the Labour spin machine to run the Osborne non-story. Not angling for a pay rise, are you Nick?
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This latest blog is just feeble Nick. It's just a very weak piece of self-justification.
Any half decent journalist would quickly have dismissed the allegations against Osborne as being tittle-tattle at best. There is nothing 'illegal' about soliciting donations, nor against accepting them from a UK company, which weakens your arguement for running with this story even more.
Please, go out and find us a real story- do some investigative journalism, rather than just being spoon fed 'stories' like this.
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#18 getrid
Yes, you're right.
Out of comments 1-18 (your post), a grand total of 1 has been referred.
"Out in force"
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I notice that on the Radio 4 News at 1pm today the BBC are still trying to make a story out of the "Osbourne affair" by commenting on the disclosure of member's interests, and whether Mr Osbourne broke the rules. Evidently this is a very grey area.
This was a very weak piece and was really "clutching at straws" in an effort to keep the stoty running.
As for posters who comment on bloggers criticising Nick Robinson and the BBC, please remember that it is we who pay the bills and his salary, we who "own" the BBC, and we who have the right (even though the freedom of speech rights have been eroded by this government) to say what we like, within the laws of slander (or is it lible), about thye BBC, either in this blog, or elsewhere.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Nick,
Since you obviously can't grasp the point, let me try to explain:
1. Mandelson is a Government minister and was on the same boat and has history of having to resign over his financial dealings, yet you believe everything he says and don't see an issue when he was taking hospitality from a man who directly benefited from changes mandy made to the Aluminium tariffs;
2. You think that a major story is when someone may or may not have asked for money on the same boat, but didn't take any either way and would not have a conflict of interest even if he had.
Now do you see why we are tired of your pretence at impartiality?
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Nick,
So what, you've been tricked by Mandelson, into feeding the flames of this story. He's a spin doctor - that is what he does. There is no point in trying to justify it.
Peston is more guilty of being hoodwinked by the spin doctors and also straying from his brief.
The BBC's head of news comments convince me to repeat my proposition from the previous blog.
It is time for the Conservatives to 'reform' the BBC when they win the election.
i.e. Lets break up the BBC and give other media companies the opportunity to produce BBC branded content which is funded by the licence fees.
A good pilot to see how well this proposal works would be to compete the opportunity to produce 'BBC Branded' news between the following:
1. Channel 4
2. ITN
3. The current BBC team.
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Is this what you call a old fashioned duel Nick?!
I'll pay for both your and Stephens ticket to France if you'd like?
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Sorry Nick, but:
No money was sought or received by the Conservatives.
The Electoral Commission aren't investigating saying there's been no breach, not reported by the BBC
Labour MP Tony Wright, has said; 'We are not talking about corruption here, we are not talking about law-breaking', not reported by the BBC
So why has this 'non-story' dominated BBC news for almost 3 days and Mandelson's relationship with the same Russian Billionaire has remained ignored.
Especially when there has been other far more serious news items released i.e. the recession, economy, significant drop in the Sterling, today's dodgy crime figures etc.
Thou protest too much me thinks
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It's all becoming clear. Once we're through the moderation process our will to continue will be diminished, and we won't question the agenda that's laid out for us.
It begs the question. The British Broadcasting Corporation is paid for, as far as I understand it, by the British citizenry through the medium of the Licence fee. The government's role in this is to provide a statutory body, who know where we live becuase it's all in their database, as they keep telling us, to administer the finances and the government kindly renews the charter periodically.
As far as I know this, the BBC, is not a government organ, or tool, and should have editorial indepencence. So, on whose behalf do you, Nick, and your unelected editors, profess to set the agenda?
Us, the taxpayer and funder of your cosy little world? Your editors, free to display whatever kind of bias they can dream up in their little world? You, acting really independantly and not swallowing unciritcally any message you get from government offices anywhere?
You work almost exclusively in the Westminster village. How can you have any feel for what thinking voters consider to be important? Platitudes won't cut it in the real world, where house prices are falling, costs are rising, jobs are disappearing with no new ones one the way, and peoples savings are ever more at threat.
Try getting that in the agenda somewhere.
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A very defensive BBC today. Clearly a nerve has been touched.
I don't find Nick's coverage generally biased but he has been on this issue, if only because of the easy ride he has given Mandelson, Rothschild and Deripaska.
Who'd have thought the good guys would turn out to be the hedge fund manager, the Aluminium wars billionaire and the twice-sacked government minister who has such trouble with mortgage application forms?
Time to move on. How about something on the government's spin of the latest crime figures?
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I'm sure that Nick's main motivation for the new blog was to give us a clean space to play before the other one hit #500 again.
We should be grateful - it shows he's a considerate person.
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If only the Mail had a record of fairness in dishing out the dirt they might have a good case. However they went to town over the Blair's freeloading on holiday but omitted to even mention that Osborne was having a free holiday with a hedge fund financier while Camoron was going on about the damage such people were doing to our economy. I seem to remember they were part of the Neal Hamilton Fan Club until even John Major gave up suporting him.
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See, what's so frustrating is that I'm itching to refer one of the unposted items to the moderators, and can't, because its in moderation already.
My inalienable right to behave in a stupid fashion is being denied to me.
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So Tory posters you are happy with a shadow hancellor who wastes his time smearing people when there is a financial crisis going on. Osborne is like a Public School Bully keeping out of sight while spreading his poison. Why didn't he post it on a Tory website with his name.? He's just a sneek.
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I do hope that one of the questions on Question Time tonight is 'Where is Phil Woolas? Has he been pulled because The Government are afraid that he might drop them in it? This is a great deal more interesting than the Cor Phew story.
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Good for you BBC.
The Tories want it all their own way. God forbid if we are to consider any of their problems. Most posters seem to want you be the opposition not report on them and the government. Perhaps Cameron would prefer a Ministry of Propoganda to an independant BBC. The same BBC which nearly brought down the Government with the Kelly saga is now their best friend...
I don't think so.
Osborne has a lot of questions to answer, if he does so, in full, we can all move on.
And one question I'd like the BBC to ask him is:
"Mr Osborne, if you cannot be trusted by friends to keep a confidence why should you be trusted by the electorate to keep the public purse?"
That single question, more than any other is what makes it a story....
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So, now that the BBC knows there is a great and genuine public interest over the Mandleson allegations, will the BBC be devoting as much time to investigating them as they have with those made against Osbourne...?
I look forward to seeing every news and current affairs broadcast, every website and blog devoting days of headline coverage to investigating whether or not Mandleson has broken any rules, or is guilty of corruption in any way...
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judging from the recent tag lines and stories coming from the bbc and others it seems that the government are perfect and can do no wrong.
its sad when reporting becomes so biased to one side i expect it from newspapers but not the bbc etc.
the osborne story having been blown into a megga story.
wouldnt it be great to have a neutral news agency that will give both sides of stories and leave the truth to tell itself.
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There is a lot more from this story, Rothschild will spill the beans if Gideon gaffs again, you watch! A non story which has the plotline of a movie, come on Giddy get up Nat's nose and let us all hear what you've been up to!!!
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I find it tragic that the BBC censors about 40% of the comments made on this blog.
What ever happened to free speech?
What ever happened to the right to disagree with the BBC?
Poor show BBC, you've let yourself and the nation down.
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What a laughably hypocritical article.
I find it rather absurd that the Mail should see fit to criticise any media entity for institutional bias.
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Is this a case of "not letting the facts get in the way of a good story", even when in this case it isn't a good story.
Sorry, but celebrity raises its ugly head again, when celebrity commentators, Robinson and Peston (I wouldn't buy a used car from this firm!!!) team us to try to make the story run.
Pretty pathetic journalism, if you call it journalism.
Perhaps the BBC should return to giving us, the public, the FACTS and let us make up our own minds.
It would be much more effective. We hate being told what to do and what to say. We can start our own band-wagon without the help of Messrs Robinson and Peston who seem to want to set the agenda.
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A media organisation such as the BBC will always suffer agenda pressure from various interested parties.
Most notoriously, and successfully, in recent times from Alastair Campbell, with a tragic outcomes for both individuals and the BBC, especially for its morning radio toady programme.
Those who follow Nick's link to the head of news will find a perfectly acceptable explanation of why Osborne rather than Mandleson has been the focus of attention.
In my opinion, Mandelson is a complete master of his trade, that is, the darker arts of politics and it was extremely foolish, in this context, of the inexperienced Osborne to attempt to out-maneouvre him.
I suspect that 'Dave' will get rid at the earliest possible opportunity.
Leaders have to be ruthless at the appropriate time and simply cannot afford to carry any baggage, especially in such a rough and unforgiving trade as politics.
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Nick,
You are accused of bias on a daily basis and never normally comment.
Your attempted defence today, combined with the head of BBC news, makes it seem very, very plausible that the BBC knows it has a case to answer to.
Why not fess up and move on?
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Nick
I've read Glover and I've read Mawhinney and I just don't get how you reach your conclusion.
This from someone who wouldn't even buy the Mail if there was a toilet roll shortage and who thinks that Osborne's a twerp.
The very fact that this blog has morphed over the last few days into the launching of a defense of your organisation's position on this story really says it all.
Let me explain. I get pressure all the time to cover things that suit people's political agendas and I'm paid to resist that pressure from wherever it comes.
Quite!
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Perhaps the question we should all be asking ourselves is: Was George Osborne chosen to be shadow chancellor in spite of his background and connections or because of it?
And if he were selected for the position in spite of his background and connections how would he perform in the economic downturn were there to be an election and he took office?
But if he were selected for the position of shadow chancellor because of his background and connections whose interests would he be first to protect when, and if, he took office?
May I suggest these are the reasons the "gossip" in Corfu is being discussed by the media. As a potential office-holding MP, his ideas, motives and intentions matter.
Lord Mandelson, on the other hand, is now beyond our vote. Entertaining as his private life may be, it is now of less significance politically than George Osborne's.
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Ooh, this is good.
I think we've all got the idea now. Put up an anodine post, not admitting anything and not denying anything, leaving no trail to be picked up on, and have awkward questions asked about at a later stage, whilst leaving behind a suggestion that someone else may have done something untoward.
Seems reminiscent of somebody, but I just can't put my finger on it, because they keep slithering away.
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#29 - um, how does the news that police have been under-reporting crime show BBC bias or make the home office look good? It's surely a negative thing for the government that crime stats are higher than official figures show?
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I've been reading the non-controversial report on crime, and the under-reporting of statistics over recent years.
It seems to me, that like so many other problems, it's all our fault, because, as human beings, we do not readily organise ourselves into the statistics that enable the form fillers to complete their tasks.
Obviously, Nick, this is why you are experiencing some difficulty in organizing your agenda. we keep popping up with the wrong questions.
Shame on us.
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In my opinion you have made an error of judgement over this issue Nick.
The key issue in this story is Mr Mandelson's relationship with a an aluminium tycoon who subsequently negotiated some very lucrative opt outs.
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re: 34 Grawth
I'd like the BBC to investigate what the government's doing (or not doing) to help reduce the depth/length of the recession too.
Like you, I also believe that "in a few weeks we might do something" is not good enough. The official statistics are running a couple of months behind what's really going on in the economy.
From what I can see, the real economy is teetering on the edge of total collapse because there's a pending spiral about to happen; if we don't do something to make people feel safer with money physically in their pockets in the next week or 2, then we're finished.
If the status quo carries on without any adequate help, then I think we've got about 4 weeks from now before we reach the point of no return, at which point the downward spiral will make the current problems look like a tiny blip.
They really do need to do something desperately soon; from what I can see the government have no idea just how bad things really are on the ground.
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3rd blog on same damn subject.
Really is there nothing else happening politically. I heard Brown was close to addmitting we're entering a Recession, is that not news any more?
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So this thread is running about an hour behind. I've noticed that the UK politics page has been severley revamped, but I looked and looked, and there's no mention of anything associated with the R word.
What happened? Are we out of it already?
I note that our esteemed home secretary is reported as offering a minsiter more in accordance with jobs and the economy (wonder who that might be?) to QT instead of the hapless Woolas charcter, but that the BBC have asked for Lord Hattersley.
Shum mishtake, shurely.
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Nick,
Here is an example of 'investigative journalism'.
Whoever wrote this has dug further than the story planted by the spin doctors.
Investigative Journalism
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All of this affair is left wing spin only reported by the BBC who are biased, honest
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It's hilarious when a non story breaks
about the Tories to see the same old Labour faces racing to the studios to get their faces and non opinions over on TV
The only one I didn't see last night was Keith Vaz.
Oh! Of course we had him all of last weekend.
I think most of us are intelligent enough to see through them all
After all we have lived with this government for 11 years and there cannot be many people left in the whole country who have not been negatively affected in some way or another by their time in office.
11 years of incompetence. That's too tough to spin out of.
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I have been intrigued by BBC coverage of the Osborne business - as it seems have many others.
I have no time for Osborne, I think he is smug and arrogant, however I have even less time for Mandelson - also smug and arrogant. BBC have chosen to pursue the Osborne business with a vengeance which is good but they have almost completely ignored Mandelson whose track record indicates he is a selfish person quite lacking integrity and whose associations in the current matter demand a lot more scrutiny. why no BBC investigating? Osborne is a mere grass snake to Mandy's rattlesnake.
Digressing slightly, whilst the UK is possibly in recession. BBC news24 is not helping the country by its repeat news process - every 30 minutes it tells us we are going into recession, possibly worst ever, etc. If it is possible to talk a country into recession then surely BBC news24 are going to manage to do so.
And while I'm here, BBC reporting which irritates me is a newscaster introducing a topic defining it and transferring to 'our chief reporter/editor/whatever' who tells us just what the newscaster has told us and passes over to 'our special correspondent/whatever' who more or less tells us what the previous two have told us. No wonder the licence fee keeps going up. 3 'reporters' and who knows how many support staff to give us a one-liner.
Have a nice day.
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Oh look!!!!
There are some naughty people saying that the government didn't fix the roof whilst the sun was shining and carry some of the blame for the recession:
Welcome to reality Labour fans. P.S. Open your eyes and minds and think. Will you blindly give your vote to Labour again?
Or do we want to ignore the pain of the recession and just chat more about George Osbourne not securing a donation on a yacht? If so I'm sure the BBC will oblige and give us more 'Osbourne' comments to blog against.
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re: 60 balhamu
They're getting "reinstated" again afterwards by the ministry of truth at the bbc, but only after enough time goes by so that people won't read them afterwards.
People generally skip the comments they've already read, so they miss the ones that get re-instated because they think they've already read them as the reinstated comments are further up the page than the latest comment they last read.
So, to the auditors (and to you) it might look like it's not getting moderated, but in practice a lot of the anti-labour comments are getting temporarily hidden until enough time goes by that the BBC know most people won't be seeing/reading those comments.
It's a psychological tactic which the BBC seems to be doing much more now than it used to. I think they know they're in trouble, so they're doing everything they can to divert attention away from their bias.
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47. "IMO there is an organised and Orchestrated campaign , either by the Tory Party itself or a group aligned to the party which tries to dominate opinion on this blog."
Well, I'm not part of it if there is one. I've never posted to a blog before and I'm not a member of any political party. I'm just FURIOUS that my licence fee is supporting such unbalanced reporting. Before this incident, I had started switching between BBC and ITV news to obtain more balanced information, and I was frankly tired of seeing Robert Peston keep popping up with gossipy titbits. Is he being paid per story?
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The fact that you and the BBC feel the need to explain, says it all. The BBC are still terrified of Nu Labour, after backing down to Alistair Campbell and Tony Blair over the Kelly affair where funding, or the threat of losing it carried the day. The whole Osborne, Rothschild, Mandelson affair stinks to high heaven, and I'm afraid the BBC and your goodself will not come out smelling of roses. Somewhere along the line the big stick was waved and once again the BBC toed the Nu Labour line in abject surrender.
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Dear Nick,
I don't actually think you are biased at all. I believe you are a very very good reporter who does his absolute best to tell it as he sees it. I defend the BBC at most times. On this occasion you might choose to see, however, that there are amazing forces at work on the labour/money side. Peston should NEVER have become involved. That is what gave it toxic potential to reasonably impartial observers(together with the breathless (not from you) coverage on all the BBC channels (You have to consider the total coverage not just yours).
The moment it became clear that there was no allegation (even from Mr Rothschild) that actual soliciting ever took place, this story should have gone down umpteen notches. Are the BBC proud that the "take" is Osborne luxuriating on this billionaire yacht (for an hour or so) whilst the labour!! Govt minister stays on said yacht a week! Love to know the Liz Murdoch/Matthew Freud/Rupert Murdoch issues in all this...
The BBC (and I accept you did your best but have been somewhat dragged along) did itself no favours in all this.
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#47 Eatonrifle
Good afternoon
......IMO there is an organised and Orchestrated campaign , either by the Tory Party itself or a group aligned to the party which tries to dominate opinion on this blog. I doubt I'm the only person to be suspicious....
I realise, as you say, it is only your opinion, but would you not concede Gordon Brown and Labour in general are presently deeply unpopular and this blog is probably a fair representation of opinion countrywide?
If there is some kind of orchestrated attempt by persons unknown in the Tory hierarchy to dominate opinion here, and I very much doubt there is, regular and articulate Tory leaning contributors would find the suggestion pretty laughable or offensive. The majority of regulars of this ilk present reasoned arguments and are not reluctant to respond when challenged, I would include myself in the same category. Don't forget too that not every anti Labour/Brown blogger is necessarily Tory
Notwithstanding, I think I recall a non too subtle attempt by Labour activists recently, around about Conference time if memory serves, to do just what you have suggested. So much so that the name Derek Draper was frequently suggested.
Everybody is welcome here newbies or otherwise, I honestly reckon the majority of newbies are simply fed up with Labour and Gordon Brown which goes back to my earlier point about being representative of the country at the moment.
I began participating here for precisely that reason.
Thanks for reading
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The lady doth protest too much, methinks
Queen Gertude is quite prophetic
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Ohoh looks like I said something controversial in #67, since it's still being reviewed.
Let me think, no didn't swear, don't think I insulted anybody more than usual, didn#t menton slyboots by name.
So don't know why it hasn't made it.
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This is getting completely out of hand.
Rothschild and Osborne have been friends since Oxford and, until this fiasco, there was no reason not to remain so. You should not have to give up personal friendships when you enter public life. Mandelson and Rothschild are also apparently friends and it seems that Mandelsohn and Osborne are on friendly terms. Nothing wrong with any of that.
Enter Mr.Deripaska. He is rich and Russian - enough to make anyone make Satan look good in today's climate of opinion. In fact he runs perfectly respectable businesses including a massive aluminium conglomerate and a vehicle manufacturing company in the UK. He is also a friend of Rothschild and Mandelson.
Now are we saying that Mr.Mandelson and Mr. Deripaska should not be on friendly terms at a personal level? I think not. If Mr. Glover has evidence to suggest that this is an improper relationship with undue influence being exercised over aluminum prices, let him have the courage to bring it forward. Put up or shut up in other words. In fact, unless any evidence does come forward - and none has so far - this is a non-story and the BBC would be foolish to dwell on it.
Mr. Osborne is presented with an opportunity to spend a pleasant time on a very luxurious yacht. Nothing wrong with that. Does he use it to attempt to solicit a contribution to the Tory party. He dnies it but even if he did, it either took place within the jurisdiction of Greek law or the law of whichever country Mr. Deripaska's yacht is registered. Certainly not under the law of England and Wales. Therefore no offence has been committed. Just to take it to its logical conclusion, if LDV had bunged the Tories 50 grand, even that is not illegal.
I think the media are entitled to ask if a shadow chancellor had so little to say during a world economic crisis suddenly starts blabbing about private conversations in a Greek bar does not deserve everything he gets. They are entitled to ask whether everything he gets ought one day to include HM Treasury.
But beyond that, the whole thing is just political muck raking. A complete non-story and a total waste of your and our time. And as for Mr. Glover - well someone has to write for the Mail, I suppose.
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I am very angry with the BBC and Nick which probably explains why my four comments today have all been removed. I'll try again and in no way try to offend those guys at the Ministry of Truth:
Nick Robinson is a really brilliant political correspondent. He is in no way biased towards Labour and his reputation has in no way plummeted by this ridiculous (oops sorry - wonderfully balanced) piece of journalism. I am so pleased to be able to fund through my licence fee such a deserving bunch of people at the BBC. Their unflinching search for the truth has made me see what a selfless, noble individual Peter Mandelson is and I promise all the moderators I will vote Labour at the next election.
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#69
assuming you're right Saga, he's going to have to do the same thing again tomorrow.
Bet Campbell and Mandelson are feverishly trying to find something that'll work to their advantage.
Doubt they'll be successful, though.
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You offer two defences to accusations of bias:
1) Quote: Rather than rehearse the arguments myself let me refer you to a blog written by the BBC's head of news at Westminster about why we've taken the editorial decisions we have. Endquote. Sorry, the BBC head of news is precisely the last person to call in defence of an accusation of pre-BBC bias.
2) Quote: I get pressure all the time to cover things that suit people's political agendas and I'm paid to resist that pressure from wherever it comes Endquote. Possibly you do (peerage anyone?) but you haven't explained that you resist this pressure in equal measure from wherever it comes. Sorry, you've been baised too may times to have any credibility (even though no doubt, like TB, you're a straight kind of guy)
Clearly the BBC is under pressure. Time to give BBC executives a holiday (in Corfu perhaps) and share the financial burden with Channel4 and Sky.
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To be honest, I'm not sure if Nick is biased or not, although I agree he's making a meal out of this non-story. He's always struck me as a pro and his coverage of Gordon's recent travails hasn't been especially pro-Labour.
However, the perception is as important as the fact. The reality is that an awful lot of people have concluded there's bias and in the interests of his own credibility and professionalism (if he's seeking, as he says, to avoid bias) he might be well-served to reflect on why that is.
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Well I'd say both newlabour and the BBC have scored an astonishing own goal on this one.
But then agian, what's so astonishing about people who pursue an ideological agenda falling on their own principles?
Let me explain. If you live in democracy,and at the last count we did, it is your democratic right to express your opinions and on occasion vote for them.
On this occasion the majority seem to have come down not necessarily in Geroge Osborne's favour (and the dogs and fleas was a masterstroke by Lord Tebbitt) but against the principle of the hounding of an innocent man. Not least is the potential abuse of parliamentary principle by the prime minister announcing an inquiry that has neither been properly commissioned or authorised nor yet be shown to be warranted.
Far more interesting would be the investigations of Lord Mandelson and his dealings with Oleg Deripaska and the subsequent altering of aluminium tariffs, apparently in his favour.
The we need some questions asked in parliament about the appropriateness of Paul Myners position on the National Economic Council at the same time as he holds a directorship of GLG.
The GLG hedge fund is one of the largesst in the market and has been, historically, one of the largest short sellers of the stock market.
There must be a conflict of interest in Paul Myners holding both a directorship opf a short selling hedge fund and a position on a national committee investigating such affairs?
But this has long been the position of newlabour; blurring the lines between regulation and management of the economy and it needs to be investigated. Similar fudge created the fiasco of Tripartite legislation - initially appearing to simplify - actually creating far too large a degree of wriggle room for the banks. The banking sector collapse is in part a result of this blurred legislation.
Call an election.
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Nick
I think this blog is usually so well balanced but you have seriously lost the plot on this one.
I don't mind some coverage of the Osborne affair - I broadly agree with Tebbit's comment about catching fleas if you lie down with dogs. Osborne must learn from this.
Surely it is just as important that Mandleson was there and surely the gagging of Woolas is much more newsworthy at this point.
By all means defend your independence but please keep some perspective.
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The BBC is feeling very mellow towards Mandelson because the new show "Little Britain USA " isn't a great success. Now that Mandy will be appearing as a special guest, they want to keep in with the Lord as money is in short supply.
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The BBC has traditionally set the benchmark for freedom of the press, both nationally and most importantly abroad. What do you think the reaction is going to be in less enlightened countries whose rulers are always trying to suppress public opinion and eradicate democratic accountabilities and responsibilities?
For example, the likes of Robert Mugabe will see that all his past, present and future actions are totally and completely justified. Burma will carry on their version of Pol Pot's killing fields.
The editorial justification of evidence, or lack of in Mandelson wrongdoing is lame. Until the Lisbon treaty is ratified the EU cannot afford to any type of scandal. However, another direction exists: Deripaska's activities.
Why were his financial transactions between the UK and USA, only suspect in the USA? Why was this brought to the attention of the FBI. Why have the UK regulatory authorities not taken any action specially since a household British bank was involved? Has the BBC attempted an interview with the FBI or US regulatory authorities?
If Deripaska has gained an advantage through lower tariffs in the EU, surely this contravenes the world fair trade agreements between the USA and Europe.
The silence on these issues is deafening.
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Very disappointed with your response Nick. Until this story I held you in a far higher regard than most of your colleagues for your impartiality and fairness. Indeed without yourself and Andrew Neil the BBC political department's so-called impartiality would have been laughable in the extreme.
Whilst I understand the interest in this story the prominence and length of time taken in the news schedule does seem rather over-the-top. Even someone like myself who is not impressed by George Osborne sees this as a pretty small-scale story.
My grave fear is that the BBC has lurched back to where it was in the 1990s? Any supposed opportunity to bash the Tory party and the organisation is salivating. The Mandelson question is of far greater significance as this, if proven, would be a massive conflict of interest. Indeed, under UK but not EU regulations he would have had to resign under the Ministerial code of conduct. Are we now to say that just because the EU's conduct laws are weaker than ours that this doesn't smell?
Finally, why is it that as soon as Mandelson and Campbell are back on the scene than the BBC resorts to type? What sort of power do these 2 pretty disgusting individuals hold over the BBC? For crying out loud - the BBC now fawns over a man who set out to destroy it over WMD!
Please Nick revert to type and stay away from Michael Crick, Kirsty Wark, Jeremy Paxman, Robert Peston (Business Editor!!!) and all the rest. Without yourself and Andrew Neil I will be left with a left-wing bias BBC and a right-wing bias Sky News. John Snow is Polly's secret lover the way he reports so don't even go there!
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Come on Nick, which one are you modeling your self after to create 3 blogs on this assnine subject, Carl Bernstein or Bob Woodward?
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47 wrote:
'IMO there is an organised and Orchestrated campaign , either by the Tory Party itself or a group aligned to the party which tries to dominate opinion on this blog. I doubt I'm the only person to be suspicious.'
Yo're probably not the only one but I'm willing to bet you're one of a very few! The BBC I believe are in in the wrong over this issue and should come clean.
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#73
So who do we get instead, some labour Lord or other. If you refer to my earlier comment #21 then I hope that you will also have listened to the Home Secretary on the news at 1 when asked to comment you could almost hear her smile as she gave an appalling answer. This one has legs if they want to run with it.
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Well you have to admire the Prince of Darkness - he has got the BBC under his thumb already. Hats off to Mandy!
Can we have a less defensive blog tomorrow with some real news please?
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Violent Crime: Figures Were Wrong
Tension For Banks And Small Firms
Govt Faces Climate Change Defeat
Gordon Brown Uses The 'R' Word
MoD Criticised Over Iraq Deaths
PM Defends Britain's Debt
...so none orf these are stories Nick, you are just hurt, that no one really gives a monkeys about the yawning yacht of subdefuge.
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How about the seemingly blatant blackmail threat inherent in the 'shut-up or I'll release my side's contemporaneous notes'?
Mandelson has been back five minutes and already this type of news story - empty, nasty, vile, gossip, rules the BBC.
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A BBC reporter should be deemed to be neutral in their opinions, and should only report the facts. Ideally, if something of interest arises, they should dig around to get those facts. Once the public no longer feel the reporter is neutral, and that he is too incompetent or lazy to dig for the facts, that reporter is no longer credible and should resign. Nick, I realise you have a love of the fine wines served in the bars of the Palace of Westminster, that you quoff at the licence payers' expense, but you are now part of the story and must go.
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#71
'My inalienable right to behave in a stupid fashion is being denied to me.'
Really? I hadn't noticed!
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I have read this and your link and I am afraid this doesn't cover it.
This was frenzied blanket coverage involving you and your business editor who has a conflict of interest which was never disclosed.
You resisted pressure? Oh its Tory pressure now.
How much coverage did you give to F1?
How long did it take you to pick up on Hain when it has been on the blogs for months?
Your statements don't explain why you did not make it apparent that there were various ways in which no law would have been broken.
Deripaska had a UK business and one that I had heard of. Now if they want to investigate any donations from specially set up shell companies, then that would be scandal. If they wanted to talk about trying to get around the rules. Investigate.
But the only evidence was that 'discussions' took place. How does one establish whether or not someone can donate. First question, are you on the UK register of electors, no, secondly, do you have a UK business. Thats a discussion, about how do you follow the rules.
The fact is you represented 'discussions' as illegal or clearly inappropriate when they might not be. You simplified that matter in an extremely prejudical way.
How else would someone work out what to do? Oh yes the Labour way. Accept any money from anywhere, dont ask questions it might be Abrahams again, but we need the money.
The simple truth is that bias can be subjective. Your problem is that more and more people think you are not being objective. These unsatisfactory responses won't change that. Its interesting that the wider press have picked up on it. They have sensed a public mood which has been seen on the blogs for a while.
I think the BBC has found itself in the position where every story will be viewed through the prisom of an assumed anti Tory bias.
The answer is to watch ITV.
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Mr Robinson
You are paid by the license payer - i.e. me and many like me.
Therefore, please donate your last two day's salary to charity or refund it to the license payer as you have wasted our time and money.
Jeremy Paxman resorted to asking Mr Heseltine the same question 4 times and the rabble (including you) resorted to asking George Osborne the same question 6 times.
On both occasions the question was answered first time round, quite clearly and concisely.
Your job is to report, not pin things on people. Ask a question, get an answer. If you don't get an answer, by all means ask again. But in the example above, Mr Paxman looks ridiculous and quite worryingly prejudiced.
Prejudice based on class is just as bad as racism and any other form of prejudice. So, from a non Tory, non Labour, non interested perspective, please move on.
The nation is really really bored now - a non-story. You are wasting the money that I and millions like me pay to you.
Cheers chap.
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Nick,
Indefensible this time. Mr. Osborne is being persecuted for a thought crime; Mr. Brown is getting away with a real crime... destroying our economy. When people have lost their jobs, the truth will hit home, and the Tories will win. Then, I hope, the Beeb will meet its end... and not before time. It is people like you that have destroyed our confidence in what would otherwise be a priceless institution.
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Peston saying he has met this bloke and therefore I believe him is rubbish and would be laughed out of any court.
The fact that this bloke is a Rothschild automatically renders anything he says to be dubious and open to doubt.
The Rothschilds did not take control of entire nation's currencies through being honest, did they? Hurried innacurate leaks to the floor of the stock exchange after the battle of Waterloo sparked such a selling panic, that they pretty much took over the city of London.
Their methods have not changed much, but the puppets that they control in politics and media still dance to their tune. I would not expect the BBC to do anything different, for they know who their masters are.
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#98 PammyAnny
Well said (written). I'm not a part of any Tory group either and I'm also furious at my licence fee funding the Labour party's marketing campaign. The reason Labourites think it's a Tory conspiracy of bloggers is that they don't have any idea how many people despise them.
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Since the Electoral commission has rejected an inquiry, will you report that.
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Nick,
I am actually surprised that your blog has not been referred or moderated. Why?
Is Lord Mandelson actually being accused of murder?
Stephen Glover 'while Mandy is getting with murder'
This is a serious accusation to make and surely the Prime Minister must call for an inquiry.
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#113 Mayo23
Finally, why is it that as soon as Mandelson and Campbell are back on the scene than the BBC resorts to type? What sort of power do these 2 pretty disgusting individuals hold over the BBC? For crying out loud - the BBC now fawns over a man who set out to destroy it over WMD!
I wrote a comment saying very similar yesterday. I wonder who is the Head Honcho of the BBC and what is his relationship with the Government?
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The real point of this story is that, in the wake of the prominent coverage that party funding has received in recent years, George Osborne still decided, whether he solicited a donation or not, to at least consider a donation to his party from someone who it seems universally agreed upon is a pretty shady chatacter.
Considering the public disapproval towards party funding scandals, and the current economic climate, it was at least careless and at worst mentally negligent of the shadow chancellor to have allowed himself to be put in this position, even more so when you consider that Mandelson was in attendence and the latter's re-emergence into government. Did it not occur to him that by pushing the Mandelson affair that it would come back to bite him.
As to the coverage, both of these affairs require equal scrutiny if they are indeed to be exposed at all. It does seem that the Osborne affair has superceded the Mandelson affair in the last 48 hours. Neither should be let off the hook by the media if there is any inpropriety or lack of sound judgement uncovered.
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Gof the "Tory-Bloggers-United" are back in force.
Who is bankrolling you to sit and blog anti gov comments all day long.
blah blah blah what about Mandelson blah blah
What exactly has Mandelson done?
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Maybe we are all being manipulated by Conservative Central office - you can just imagine someone tapping away building up all the hype.
Perhaps HarryPagetFlashman is actually David Cameron and T'uga Mawilli (aka Duoteste) is David Davis protecting our civil liberties?
........and Alisatair Campbell is the moderator?
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#111 warning123
The BBC is feeling very mellow towards Mandelson because the new show "Little Britain USA " isn't a great success. Now that Mandy will be appearing as a special guest, they want to keep in with the Lord as money is in short supply.
Oh - perleease tell me you jest. After TB's appalling guest appearance on The Simpsons, I can't believe that Matt Lucas and David Walliams could possibly think that having Mandy on would up their ratings.
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It's true the Tories started a stealth grassroots campaign under William Hague, but most of what I see in here can be explained by trolling and inexperience. The British tend to go a bit nuts when they get a dash of power or booze inside them, and the internet and anonymity gives them both. Cameron's bullying in PMQ's set a lead and the wannabes followed.
I recall a recent topic in a private newsgroup where people went nuts over the national id system and the security of its data. I put forward a few facts any competent systems developer should know and the steam pretty much evaporated. In fact, one guy said he knew and admitted he was in it for the crack. I can't understand that mentality but it seems to be common with the "lad" generation.
There are interesting questions about the Tory grassroots campaign and this blog, and somewhere between an indirect connection and zero connection. I'm not making any particular judgment about that but, I think, the headlines over the past week must worry the Tories because they know that blowing the myth of competence and draining the swamp of populism isn't going to do them any electoral favours.
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Hold on - Sky & Channel 4 have been running with reports over the issue ... and yet no one has been accusing them of bias or 'sensationalism'.
Come on guys - either let's tar everyone with the same brush or let's not, but this kind of goading against the BBC isn't very fair is it?
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Although this story has been grossly unfair on the Tories, I'm still not sure I'd like to accuse Nick of anti-Tory bias. He's usually pretty fair.
It's just that, on this occasion, he screwed up. Probably a perfectly honest mistake. We all make them. He probably thought the story was going to be a big and exciting one, and got it wrong.
I don't have a problem with that. As I say, we all make mistakes. What I find disappointing is his continued attempts to justify running the story, when it would have been far more appropriate, when the mistake became apparent, simply to admit to making the wrong decision, drop the story, and move on.
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# GRW8632
"George Osborne is being persecuted for a thought crime; Mr Brown is getting away with a real crime".
Brilliantly and concisely put.
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Nick,
Having read your explanation and that of your editor it still looks and sounds like a non-story and you should just accept you have over-played it. As for the Mandelson matter, well you are the journalist!
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Sound and fury signifying nothing - or rather then wrong thing.
Osborne misjudged the privacy of the first event by 'leaking' the 'poison in my ear' story.
Rothchild sends a warning shot across the bows to signify that his unwritten rules have been transgressed.
Neither comes out of this looking like a grown-up; welcome to the world of rich boy networking and collusion.
Shame on the BBC for not making THAT the focus of attention.
Shame on the UK media generally for giving this ACRES of space (including the various versions and 'angles' spun by PRs in the pay of Messers Mandelson, Osborne and Rothchild).
Shame on the blog ranters here for continuing to look in the wrong place for the 'story'.
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Just reading the few paragraphs of the nes blog - I knew what was to come. Even jsut reading the name Nick Robinson or just being on the BBC, i knew the response. And boy, you didn't let me down.
But thankfully within the hordes of tories, accusing the BBC and Nick and well, any one they could excuse, i read #74 and #47 also incedently.
The tories are corrupting these blogs, using every trick in the book to divert attention from whats really wrong: what george osbourne (and adimantelly many other mps) are doing and have done.
People talk of the BBC ending and talk of broken economys etc, all spouting hate at this now no-existent creature "New Labour".
The tories are so used to polluting peoples minds: For example i spotted a bilboard advertising the Sun for 30p. That is what should be illegal: we can never have a democracy where the millionare land owners can sell a newspaper full with conservative propaganda of how labour will lose their jobs, when under conservative millions lose their jobs. Do we want another Margaret Thatcher. No, but
And if its any consolation, BB, if the conservatives
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Nick. Here is a story for you. Yesterday the Prime Minister LIED to parliament when he claimed that UK national debt is 37% of GDP. Not it isn't - if you include Northern Rock it is 43% but he's had the stats changed. However as the CPS pointed out on Monday IF you also include unfunded public sector pensions, Bradford & Bingley, Network Rail, PFI and of course the recent bail out of the Scottish (funny that) banks then the number is actually 161%. That is 95,000 pounds per household. The real story is that he has stolen our children's future - thats a big story don't you think?
I note that he also had a go at the Tories for not supporting the suspension of short selling - he failed to mention that Paul Myners is a director of GLG - short sellers on a heroic scale - and who is Paul Myners I hear you ask? Only the new City minister now charged with investigating...short selling. How is that for mendacity on a grand scale? Makes Deripaska's canapes look a bit irrelevant in my view. You guys have been suckered in to the NuLabour "Liberty Valance" spin tactic. Make the legend fact and then "print the legend". Can I have my license fee back please?
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Nick.......Do you read any of the comments on these blogs ?
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Just reading the few paragraphs of the nes blog - I knew what was to come. Even jsut reading the name Nick Robinson or just being on the BBC, i knew the response. And boy, you didn't let me down.
But thankfully within the hordes of tories, accusing the BBC and Nick and well, any one they could excuse, i read #74 and #47 also incedently.
The tories are corrupting these blogs, using every trick in the book to divert attention from whats really wrong: what george osbourne (and adimantelly many other mps) are doing and have done.
People talk of the BBC ending and talk of broken economys etc, all spouting hate at this now no-existent creature "New Labour".
The tories are so used to polluting peoples minds: For example i spotted a bilboard advertising the Sun for 30p. That is what should be illegal: we can never have a democracy where the millionare land owners can sell a newspaper full with conservative propaganda of how labour will lose their jobs, when under conservative millions lose their jobs. Do we want another Margaret Thatcher. No, but i fear the indoxination of the british publics brains is already to firmly set. Yet, there are some who still believe in a world where the people run the country and where the people get what they want out of the country: I can see that from the glimmers of hope on this blog. So thankyou, Nick Robinson.
And if its any consolation, BBC, if the Conservative Gestapo ever do tear you down, it will be the worst day for democracy in the history of human-kind.
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131 Dragon
You Miss the point.
What Has Mandelson done?
At best nothing, which is pretty much the same as Osborne.
The real issue is there is plenty more relevent and interesting stories that involve everyone, including you and me.
That is what I was led to understand was the point of this blog, to discuss political matters of the day, not to flog an already dead horse, which when looked into closely is a lot of speculation and assumtion.
I was always taught to believe assumption is the mother of all **** ups.
Lets hope this isn't too much the case, cause the Beeb will have to use a lot of Cilit Bang to remove the egg.
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Nick - unconvincing.
Just 'fess up that Mandy & Co. rang ring around you and Peston.
(On second thoughts, it's quite possible, given all that is known about his political affiliations, that Peston was a willing accomplice).
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#131 My Pet Dragon
#132 meninwhitecoats
I don't believe that more than a minority of the comments above are explicitly pro Tory. Just because they are anti-BBC bias you just assume that they are.
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Trying to tell the unadulterated truth is what responsible journalism is all about. The BBC has proved beyond doubt its commitment to accurate unbiased reporting. That explains the accolades it keeps getting for balanced in-depth coverage. People should not be swayed by their own prejudices. Rather they should weigh the facts before reaching judgement. It is easy to pour vitriolic comment before checking facts! Thank god there are real professionals at the BBC who check the veracity of facts before condemning politicians. Of course seasoned politicians like Mandelson and Osbourne should tread more carefully; otherwise the press would have a hey-day at their expense!
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Why no blog on the Government making up the serious crime stats?
Surely it is more serious to lie about how many of us are being beaten up than to be seen on a boat?
Isn't it worthwhile in your view Nick? The average person being asaulted and the Government tucking the news away?
Is it that £50k that never existed is more important than men and women being raped, beaten and mugged?
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"Here was a specific allegation of wrongdoing - indeed possible law-breaking".
Wrong - the electoral commission have ruled that even if Mr. Osborne had solicited for a donation (the original allegation) then no offense was committed. So will the BBC be apologising to Mr. Osborne for wrongly infering that he broke the law? Can I nominate Robert Preston to read out the apology?
So after a week of hounding a man and gutter journalism, all we are left with, is the judgement issue. Here you are on stronger ground. This is possibly why most of your later reports have focused on this issue. But in your post, you have manifestly failed to explain why it is worse for a shadow chancellor - a position with with no actual power, to break bread with a Russian Billionaire than an EU Commissioner. Please can we have an explanation?
Failing that - an admission of error would be nice!
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Re 131
You ask what exactly has mandelson done. Well:
1. He was entertained at the same place as Osborne, so the general smears for doing this apply to him equally but are not made by the Beeb;
2. He was in charge of aluminium tariffs and signed off their reduction as EU minister. Deripaska made millions from this decision.
This latter point is known as a conflict of interest, as you seem to be unaware of such things. Unlike the stuff about Osborne:
1. It definitely happened;
2. It definitely had a real effect on the economy;
3. It has hardly been mentioned in the BBC coverage;
4. Mandy is a Government minister with real responsibilty and power over our lives and needs to be held to account.
Is that enough?
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What exactly has Mandelson done, asks MyPetDragon.
Interesting... What exactly has George Osborne done MyPetDragon? Answers on a postcard please!
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And may I add that I have today registered for this forum, so annoyed have I been at the BBC's behaviour on this matter.
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Mr Robinson
You say "I'd resisted pressure from the Tory party and the Tory press to cover the Mandelson story."
Your repeated use of the word 'Tory' suggests a very leftwing slant. You almost read like a ranting Trade Union boss.
Watch what subliminal messages you send out. The word 'Tory' may have common currency in the newsrooms of the BBC and the Guardian, but its not dissimilar to what one might expect to hear from a socialist.
Which is perhaps why Comrade Mandelson is resting easy tonight?
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It is like watching an episode of The Thick of it where the BBC waltz to the Labour spin machine. Surely Mandleson is the bigger story.
The BBC has the whole thing the wrong way round. On the Andrew Marr show Sophie rawlings made a couple of tame efforts to push Peter Mandleson on the fact that he stayed on the yacht as a guest Deripaska after he stated that he was not going to answer questions on his private life as it was just that. If this is acceptable would the government accept that it would ok for the Head of the Met Police to be best friends with a known criminal as long as they only met each other privately. I don't think so! (Although they also nothing wrong in their dealings with Ecclestone and Formula 1)
In addition the point is if I am correct that Osborne was invited as a guest of Rothschild whereas Mandleson was invited to stay overnight on the yacht by Deripaska. It is one thing to be present at an occasion attended by somebody who perhaps you should not deal with but it is entirely something to accept personal invitations to stay with them whilst a major decision is made by your office that could net that person millions.
It totally reinforces the disdain that Mandleson has for anybody who disagrees with him and I am sure that he still cannot understand that it was entirely his own fault that he has had to resign from the Cabinet twice. I am sure that his arrogance will ensure that his third resignation will ensure the first England hat-trick since Theo Walcott.
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"The Mail has also expressed some surprise that I told the Today programme that I'd resisted pressure from the Tory party and the Tory press to cover the Mandelson story. Let me explain. I get pressure all the time to cover things that suit people's political agendas and I'm paid to resist that pressure from wherever it comes."
If so, when was the last time you publicly stated pressure Labour was putting you under for a story? Surely at least Cambell bent your ear a few times?
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"balhamu wrote:
Example of BBC Bias - see the front-page story at the moment.
Leading on the miscounting of violent crime in recorded crime stats.
Spin to make the Home Office look good I say!"
I don't see how the BBC reporting a major story that reflects in negative terms on the Government suggests that they are not bias - the BBC should be reporting these stories as they are important issues.
However, at the same time there is also a blog from Mark Easton saying why the news isn't really that bad (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/)
Which I feel is fair point and it is good to put the figures in context. However, the difference between this and the Osbourne scandal is that the blog which explains that this isn't really as serious an issue as it first appears came the same day and not days later.
While, I am do not think, like others here do, that the BBC dance to Labour's tune the fact that the Osbourne story was reported in great detail BEFORE any investigation was done suggests at the best there was a lack of journalistic standards (don't lead with a story without confirming the details should be the first lesson of any serious journalism course!) and at worst suggests a hidden agenda.
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132 White
Pa ha ha, love it!
What out when I'm PM! There'll be some big changes in these here parts.
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143 Kier
it will be the worst day for democracy in the history of human-kind.
Really? ?
Bloody hell mate it's only a blog.
Where's Pol Pot?
I mean I know Labour promised a Referendum,
I know Labour indicated we were going to get an election last year.
I know we poor English can't be trusted with our own government.
but Really the worst day for democracy in the history of human kind.
What happens when you spill some milk, the worst fluid related disaster since the 2004 Tsunami.
Calm down you'll do yourself damage.
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excellentmad_hatter wrote:
"SimonGeorge, did you not read the Editors' blog? Mandleson's relationship with the aluminium magnate was ruled 'not inappropriate' by the EU itself, but Osbourne's alledged 'actions' would have put him in breach of a law passed only 8 years ago. The information came from a close friend of the shadow cabinet, not a New Labour supporter by any means! No wrongdoing by anyone as it turns out, but the BBC were right to go with Osbourne."
All Nick needed to do was check the law, and he would have discovered that taking Mr Rothchilds version at face value, no offence was committed, or could be thought to have been committed. Soliciting a donation is not illegal. Discussing a donation is not illegal. Considering how a donation could ber made legally is not illegal. (That is not my opinion, it is the Electoral Commissions)
Of course Mr Osbourne denies much of his injured host version, but that is not my point. At no stage has any allegation been made regarding anything Mr Osbourne has supposed to have done that could be considered illegal. His and his parties actions, show they did condiser a donation and rejected it, because even it it could be done legally, it would have been in their own view inappropriate. Again all demonstrably entirely within the law.
The BBC and Nick should have known that before they made such a frenzied mountain out of a non existant molehill.
The fact that they will not concede that may be they erred in choosing to make a big deal of this story says more about their judgement than it does Mr Osbournes.
As to Mr Mandelson. I make no assertion or statement of belief as to what might have gone on. As you say there is nothing to indicate any wrong doing by him. I do not beleive he has done anything wrong because I have no evidence of wrong doing.
However I was trying to contrast the BBC's and Nicks apparent zeal in pursuing one non story and apparent restraint when not pursuing another non story.
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Nick... read 92 by jonathan_cook twice.
Its bang on the button.
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Did anyone find it strange that Gordon Brown blamed the Met Police for not reporting crimes such as beng attacked with a bottle in a pub?
I heard one Police Commissioner on the radio today vehemently denying Mr Brown's claims.
I think that Labour were rumbled and they had to shift the blame onto someone else. With the exception of politicians, everyone else is expendable. Look at what happened to Ian Blair.
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KEIR2008 wrote:
For example i spotted a bilboard advertising the Sun for 30p. That is what should be illegal: we can never have a democracy where the millionare land owners can sell a newspaper full with conservative propaganda of how labour will lose their jobs, when under conservative millions lose their jobs.
You do know that in the last three elections The Sun has supported Labour? Which kind of blows your Conservative/Sun conspiracy theory out of the window. Better put on the tin foil hat so the government can't read your thoughts!
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The knives are out for Osborne and not Mandelson because Mandelson didn't go asking for money and frankly everyone knows he's a bit sleazy already.
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Nick,
I can't help feeling many of the people (not me!) who have posted on this blog are actually full time officials of the Conservative party. They probably employ people to bombard BBC blogs with silly psuedonyms such as 'getridofgordonnow' - such is their hatred of an independent BBC.
Please do not allow them to cloud your judgement - I'm sure they wont.
Bill
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KEIR2008 @143 asks:
"Do we want another Margaret Thatcher. No, but i fear the indoxination [sic] of the british publics brains is already to firmly set."
Well, the British public did elect her - three times. (Brown: pay attention!)/
Then KEIR2008 adds deliriously:
"And if its any consolation, BBC, if the Conservative Gestapo ever do tear you down, it will be the worst day for democracy in the history of human-kind.
"worst day for democracy in the history of human-kind"
Hmmmm.... Gash! Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union pale into insignificance beside those naughty, nasty Tories.
I notice that this is your first comment on Nick's Blog. Where have you been up until now - at Derek Draper's school for drones?
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Look into business dealings involving Deripaska/Rothschild a certain ex EU Trade Commissioner is also involved, be it helping to lower EU aluminium tariffs or to helping get Montenegro into the WTO
As for the aluminium tariffs not being in his gift, oh please, I wasn't born yesterday, we all know it works by vote on recommendations by the EU Trade Commissioner. Mandelson is very well versed in swaying the outcomes of these votes by various means, some even above board
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I can think of several reasons to have the knife out for Osbourne: he is not a very good politician is one. How do I know that? Well, just look at the papers.
What we need you to find out, Nick, is why political parties are dominated by stooges whose only qualification for being in charge is that they want to be?
Surely, does it not cross their mind that the electorate might want to elect someone who has seen a bit of life, or is a career in politics some sort of osmosis that propels the ambitious aspirant forward so long as he doesn't upset someone powerful?
We have had the infant Milliband thinking he should be PM, we have Tory Boy thinking he will make a good Chancellor, and we had the buffoon who stood in my constituency last time as a Liberal Democrat. Where do they find all these people?
One of the good things which I reckon will come out of the coming economic slump is that we might get a return to real politics from real people as things will then start to really matter.
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Do not go gentle into that good night
Not the BBC's finest hour, unfortunately. The Osbourne story was worthy of a good run but Mandy's episode should have been explored far more fully. The facts speak for themselves. Deripaska befriends Rothschild who befriends Mandleson and aluminium tariffs are slashed.
Your editorial link is hogwash. To suggest that the Osbourne story was followed because there was a potential crime but no prima facie evidence of against Mandleson to to split hairs in the extreme.
Come on Nick:
Rage, rage against the dying of the light!
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Billmcfadden @164:
Another first-time poster for DDD?
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To those complaining about bias on other channels, the difference is that we don't have to pay for them under the threat of imprisonment.
I'm happy for any channel to be biased as long as I have the choice of whether to pay for it or not.
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134 "I can't understand that mentality but it seems to be common with the "lad" generation."
I'm female and over 60 - sorry I don't fit your misconceived box. Can you please accept that there are people like me who are very cross that they can't easily access objective reporting?
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Does anyone agree with me that this affair is doing Labour more harm than the Conservatives?
The fact that Mandelson is not being hounded/investigated by the media enhances his reputation as being The Prince of Darkness, and following on from his two resignations nobody trusts him. Being in a position of influence and having been brought back by Brown, even though the two loath each other, is seen by many as both desparation and poor judgement on the part of Brown.
I personally know several people who are even less likely to vote Labour because Mandelson has been brought back.
The fact that all of the facts suggest that Osbourne has no case to answer and that Mandelson is not being hounded in a similar way can only suggest to the bystander (like me) that the BBC is having pressure put upon it the the government and is bowing to that pressure.
It all stinks of being more and more like Big Brother.
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Billmcfadden, Tory trolls are out in force in lots of places for free comment, it's the same names multiple posting the same propaganda. Where as most people occasionally post their opinion, a few bombard boards to an extent you wonder if that's all they must do all day.
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164 billmcfadden
"hatred of an independent BBC" ???????
Having read most of posts here I would say that the issue is the exact opposite.
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#172 mikepko
Yes I do agree with you
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#146
I can't speak for my petdragon but I was being facetious.
#157 Flashman
Flashman for PM! - Can I be fundraiser?
I've got a rubber dingy
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If you want an example of unbalanced (I don't go in for charges of bias, just unprofessionalism) today's 6'oclock news provided a purler. The police stats and the British Crime Survey both show big reductions in overall crime, and in violent crime. But the 'headline news' according to some editor looking for sensation is that 'serious violent crime has been under-recorded for over a decade'. Little attempt to explain what that might mean (though they did at least point out that offences not involving any actual violence at all, such as threatening behaviour, is the sort of thing that has been 'misrecorded'. No mention at all of the BCS, which isn't affected. No mention of the fact that it is the Home Office (ie this government) that has insisted on the practice of all forces being brought in line.
You can see why the public perception of the real situation is so far off beam when this is how our major source of news behaves. This is goodnews, not bad.
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#172 mikepko
Yes - I agree with you. I know of at least one staunch Labour supporter who said that Peter Mandleson's return would be the end of the Labour party. He also said that said he would not be voting for the Labour Party again. This is a guy who is in his 60's and has always voted Labour. He doesn't trust Mandleson either.
Gordon must have known that this would upset the apple cart - but as I've said before, he had no option but to scrape off what was left at the bottom of the barrell!
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"I get pressure all the time to cover things that suit people's political agendas and I'm paid to resist that pressure from wherever it comes"
Perfectly admirable sentiments. Why then, we are asking, was the Osbourne part of the story deemed headline news and pushed vehemently by yourself in the ensuing days whereas the Mandleson involvement barely given a cursory mention?
Newspapers are independent entities with their own readership and their own political leanings. The BBC on the other hand is publicly funded and as such should not simply be following the reporting standards of the tabloid press, neither should it be involved in the day to day political manoeuvrings of the respective parties.
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133. shellingout wrote:
#111 warning123
The BBC is feeling very mellow towards Mandelson because the new show "Little Britain USA " isn't a great success. Now that Mandy will be appearing as a special guest, they want to keep in with the Lord as money is in short supply.
Oh - perleease tell me you jest. After TB's appalling guest appearance on The Simpsons, I can't believe that Matt Lucas and David Walliams could possibly think that having Mandy on would up their ratings.
Would I joke, pal?
A Lady!!!!!
And therefore as a stranger give it welcome.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Hamlet Act 1, Scene V
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#172
This hasn't harmed Labour and GB at all if anything it's a political masterstroke by GB. He is now in a win-win situation. The economy will recover and he can take the credit. He has Mandelson and his cronies in his pocket and can throw then to the wolves at his leisure and say it was aginst his better judgement but was pressed to bring him back by the Blairites
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172 mikepko
"It all stinks of being more and more like Big Brother."
I think references to the book 1984 have been seriously devalued by inappropriate over use.
A tiny little story against the Conservatives and the Tory internet militia are out in force. I think even Louis Theroux would punch some of these people in the face.
Slightly worrying. Does a certain type of person. A Mary Whitehouse busy body type person, or rich people who have too much time on their hands have too much hold over the BBC?
We'll just have to wait and see what results from this Tory internet militia assault. after a year of them gloating over labour trivial stories 1 little story about little george osborne and they attack viceously in large numbers.
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BillMcFadden wrote:-
"Nick,
I can't help feeling many of the people (not me!) who have posted on this blog are actually full time officials of the Conservative party. They probably employ people to bombard BBC blogs with silly psuedonyms such as 'getridofgordonnow' - such is their hatred of an independent BBC.
Please do not allow them to cloud your judgement - I'm sure they wont.
Bill"
ref post #132
Have I started a consipiracy theory?
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this story is over.There is no evidence for an inquiry.Lets move on now please.Tomorrow it will be confirmed we are in a major recession.As a true professional,I trust you will be focussing on that in the days ahead Nick.
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Curiously our statistician friend balhamu is rather quiet today.
Nothing to say on the crime statistics error then big B.
mmmmm, very curious.
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Billmcfadden wrote:
Nick,
I can't help feeling many of the people (not me!) who have posted on this blog are actually full time officials of the Conservative party. They probably employ people to bombard BBC blogs with silly psuedonyms such as 'getridofgordonnow' - such is their hatred of an independent BBC.
Please do not allow them to cloud your judgement - I'm sure they wont.
Bill
So just because they have views which support the Conservative Party they must work for them?
Using that logic can only lead me to conclude that you must work for the BBC! After all if only people who are Conservative Party officals can post words of support for the Conservatives then it follows that only people who work for the BBC can post words of support for the BBC.
This is of course rubbish but to be fair so was your comment! If I was a Tory party official I would think of much better ways to get the message across then posting on a BBC blog!
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#165 MaxSceptic
......I notice that this is your first comment on Nick's Blog. Where have you been up until now - at Derek Draper's school for drones......
Would school not have been a better place to start!!??
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Pathetic Nick. You've gone way down in my estimation. It's your job to be balanced, not a mouthpiece for Nu-Labour. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Sorry, just dont accept your explanation you, Peston and the BBC hounded G. Osborne for no reason except an error in judgement when the real story was Mandelson.
If more proof is needed of BBC bias you have it today in crime statistics. The BBC says knife crime has not increased, its just the police reporting wrongly. ITV and channel 4 reports knife crime has increased by 20%, only a third was down to bad police accounting. The BBC says the "Government can be trusted with crime figures", ITV, Channel 4 say they cant.
Today the story should have been crime from a political reporter and how the government is misleading the public instead were still with G. Osborne.I also doubt the Tories put as much pressure on you as Labour because they are definitely winning in those stakes.
There are many incidences I could give, the public must have fairness.
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To be honest, if I was the BBC right now I'd want to be sucking up to Cameron.
He's a dead cert for being PM in 2010
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#54
"...did you not read the Editors' blog? Mandleson's relationship with the aluminium magnate was ruled 'not inappropriate' by the EU itself, but Osbourne's alledged 'actions' would have put him in breach of a law passed only 8 years ago."
What a load of stuff.
If the "EU itself" rules that one of its own has breached no rule, by hob-nobbing with the owner of a corporation that directly benefited from an EU decision, both before and after a decision, it should make you very, very worried.
The "EU itself" ruled that it was quite right for Neil Kinnock to dispose of a respected EU accountant who disclosed significant inadequancies within the organisation, because she breached an insignficant rule.
I absolutely accept that politicians have to contact leaders in every aspect of European life. That does NOT include accepting hospitality for themselves or their partners on luxury yachts.
Mandelson said he accepted that benefit, as his mate Rothschild's property was full. Did he never think there could have been one or two hotels available within a reasonable drive? Or do we simply accept that an EU Commissioner has different standards from the plebs they oversee?
I voted for a European Economic Community many years ago. It still hasn't happened. We now have the President of France suggesting that national interests should be protected via "Sovereign funds". So accepting that local interests should be outside EU rules. How the hell does that equate to a genuinely open market?
#134
"I recall a recent topic in a private newsgroup where people went nuts over the national id system and the security of its data. I put forward a few facts any competent systems developer should know and the steam pretty much evaporated."
Well, Charles, I guess you guaranteed that nobody would hack into the ID database. You may be a really great systems developer (although I have some doubts, as you never turn up on Google searches in that role).
Bet you everything I have that someone will hack into the ID database and extract someone's identity and make it their own.
If you have some insights that others don't and you believe that this appalling adminstration needs a bit of help to prevent data-leakage, have you offered your capabilities to ensure that some poor b*gg*r doesn't wake up without an identity, as defined by the State?
Osb was an idiot to accept an invitation to a couple of hours on board a big yacht.
At least he didn't take the full on-board hospitality offer from yet another Russian oligarch. Just what excuse does Mandelson have?
And why would Brown encourage a detailed investigation into Osb's transgressions, when Brown was reportedly aware of the Ecclestone donation, but reputiated knowledge in the House?
Was it simply because he hoped it would bring Blair down, or just a way of staying at the trough?
A plague on both their houses. MPs are paid by, and should work for, us.
I have no interest in paying for people like Campbell, who simply "adjust" information to make it more acceptable. A bit like Mandelson, who dissembled before a Committee by saying he hadn't talked to the FT within the last 48 hours, when he was asked whether he had talked to them. Fact was that he'd talked outside a time-frame he'd invented, which was nothing like a real response.
I have been very happy to see money being allocated to good services. But very unhappy to see it wasted.
Blair had little idea about tax spend. (But obviously a lot of concern about personal income.)
Brown allowed a huge amount of taxes to be poured into the gutter.
He's Superman?
Saviour of the economic world?
Bring back Clark Kent. At least he doesn't wear his underpants over his trousers. This guy wears his new teeth as if they need a bit of practice.
Happy to be in a a mess, so he can demonstrate his "strengths". For goodness sake, with a bit of proper regulation, the UK would not be in such deep smelly stuff if Brown had been awake for a bit longer.
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176
But of Course, just don't bring that Mandleson fellow, he scares the children.
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#180 warning123
Would I joke, pal?
A Lady!!!!!
Eeeuuurrrggghhh!! I read your mail and got this dreadful mental picture of Mandy in regency dress. I'm traumatised - but not half as much as the americans will be!
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I tend to agree with the mail, why was Peter Mandleson involved with the russian w, hen holding a key position with the E.U.
I also found it interesting watching the BBC 6-0-clock news this evening which more or less defended the governments statistics on serious crime, yet watching ITV and channel 4 news they actually did their own research and violent crime had actually gone up. Although i am not a Labour supporter myself and i agree that Nick can not appease those political partys for the sake of it, I do feel that B.B.C. reporting on political affairs is a mouthpiece for the Labour party, is Alastair Cambell in charge by any chance?
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spartans11 wrote:
#172
This hasn't harmed Labour and GB at all if anything it's a political masterstroke by GB. He is now in a win-win situation. The economy will recover and he can take the credit.
The reports I have read suggest that the economy won't recover until 2010, so it is likely that any reports of growth will be after the General Election
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After 3 days of non stop BBC reporting this story of a non existent crime may I ask Nick, why the fact that today the Electoral Commission has said Osbourne has no case to answer (ie he has done nothing wrong) it doesn't even merit a mention on BBC news. In otherwards the BBC appears content to let the smears v Osbourne just hang in the air. Its that sort of handling of this matter which justifiably leads people to question the impartiality of the BBC. Please can someone from the BBC just explain why todays crucial developments apparently are not deemd worthy of front line reporting.It couldn't just be that what the Commission has said has made all the media look a bunch of hysterical school kids.
Peter
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Why are you paid to resist pressure to cover stories? Surely you should be covering all stories and letting the public take their own view as the BBC and therefore your wages are paid for by taxpayers. You shouldn't be deciding not to cover stories, that is censorship.
I am a Tory and have no time for Osborne, I think he is a cocky liability and do not object to the coverage of whatever it is he is supposed to have done. What I do object to is the fact that you did not cover the Mandelson story as well. After all Mandelson had real power as EU trade minister, as far as I am aware Osborne has NO POWER, yet!
It seems to me Nick Robinson you are asking us to think it mere coincidence that the only time you seem unable to 'resist the pressure to cover a story' is when it's damaging to the Tory party. It is taken as red that Peston is in the Labour camp, he's written a flattering account of Brown. But now your bias has also been noted.
Just remember one thing taxpayers that fund the BBC are all political colours Labour, Tory, Lib Dem and others and it is about time the BBC reflected this.
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I am a Tory and have no time for Osborne, I think he is a cocky liability and do not object to the coverage of whatever it is he is supposed to have done. What I do object to is the fact that you did not cover the Mandelson story as well. After all Mandelson had real power as EU trade minister, as far as I am aware Osborne has NO POWER, yet!
It seems to me Nick Robinson you are asking us to think it mere coincidence that the only time you seem unable to 'resist the pressure to cover a story' is when it's damaging to the Tory party. It is taken as red that Peston is in the Labour camp, he's written a flattering account of Brown. But now your bias has also been noted.
Just remember one thing taxpayers that fund the BBC are all political colours Labour, Tory, Lib Dem and others and it is about time the BBC reflected this.
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Thanks Nick, this highly factual investigative reporting is worthy of highlighting.
Pity it was by Stephen Glover and not the political editor of our publicly funded impartial state corporation
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#150 - Financehero
No, it is not enough!
For your argument to work, you have to demonstrate, at the very least, a plausible link otherwise it is pure speculation.
Mandelson and Deripaska may well be acquainted - possibly even friends - but demonstrating that there was something improper arising from his role in the EU is another matter. You must be able to show hard evidence of linkage.
I am no fans of Mandelson and I have to agree that the whole thing looks distinctly dodgy but dishonest? Well all I can say is, prove it.
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182 wrote:
1A tiny little story against the Conservatives and the Tory internet militia are out in force. I think even Louis Theroux would punch some of these people in the face.
Slightly worrying. Does a certain type of person. A Mary Whitehouse busy body type person, or rich people who have too much time on their hands have too much hold over the BBC?
We'll just have to wait and see what results from this Tory internet militia assault. after a year of them gloating over labour trivial stories 1 little story about little george osborne and they attack viceously in large numbers.'
Yeah right. The 10p tax fiasco, the failed Election call, the mishandling of the economy, the botched crime figures, the repossession of houses, the liquidation of small businesses, the dithering financial policies. All really trivial to you perhaps but so important to so many people. The George Osborne story so tiny that it was the first item on the Wednesday 6 o'clock news. Little wonder that the reaction was so swift and merciless! Nothing like Mary Whitehouse whose campaign against The BBC was misguided in the context of 20th century morals.
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#182 dhwilkinson
First of all I apologise for not responding to your post on the previous blog. Truth be known I couldn't find it again this morning to refer to. Be assured when addressed directly I will always respond.
Anyway, with reference to your #182 today, do you think the phrase "Tory militia" is a slight exaggeration? I genuinely believe this particular forum is representative of the country at large. As more everyday folk become aware of it's existence, you will see new names and arguably a majority being less favourable to Gordon Brown. At this moment in time, the lives of the electorate are being blighted, with control of such maters being limited to the Government of the day, a backlash against the encumbent Labour party is probably quite normal. Thatcher had it in years gone by, and so too will Cameron in later years if he is successful in 2009/2010. Would you agree?
I personally believe the Cameron/Mendelssohn story has been inverted and completely politicised, which from the BBC is surprising and disappointing.
For what it is worth, I think George Osborne, aside from the last few days, has been noticeable by his absence recently, in what clearly, is his opposition remit. I feel sure, David Davis would at least have begun to find a balance between opposition and National interests in his responses to recent events and announcements by Brown/Darling.
To re-iterate for the the umpteenth time, my voting intentions are presently unclear, but my dismay with Gordon Brown infuriates me, hence the perception of many I might be a staunch Conservative.
kind regards
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172 Mikepko
I agree with you. I am incensed at the way this story has been blown all out of proportion and so are many people that I know (not all Tory supporters).
People in Britain are drawn towards underdogs and that is how the Tories appear at the moment. It seems everything they say and do is shown in a negative light by the media (especially the BBC) Just watch the 'subtle' differences in technique when ministers from each party are being interviewed. The language/body language would make an excellent study for A'level English language students.
A few people on this blog seem to feel that anyone who accuses the BBC of bias is a right wing Tory 'troll' who can not face the truth, but to me the bias is sometimes so blatant I wonder what planet they are on.
David Cameron gave a very good conference speech that inspired a lot of people but the reception from the BBC was tepid to say in the least. Gordon Brown's conference speech was met with much more enthusiasm and adulation. There is also the fact that the question as to why Mandelson hasn't been hounded in the same way as Osborne, has not been answered yet.
I would really like the BBC News to be totally impartial and give all policies/parties a fair hearing. Stop trying to influence the way people think because the average person is not stupid and can see through propaganda and bias.
However, to be fair to Nick Robinson and the BBC, this blog incorporates a variety of views but how many people get to see it?
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The government are bent.
They have no mandate.
We are sick of their lies.
Call an election.
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Let me confess first. I am not a Tory supporter and I have not voted for a long time.
I get the feeling that BBC has taken decision to 'slant reporting' in favour of Labour. I hear some whispers emananing from this Monolith ( a friend of mine works there in a fairly senior capacity) that an unspoken decision is taken to support Labour as the BBC hierarchy feels that a Tory government would force the License fee to be shared with non-BBC channels. I listened to Naughty, yourself, Wark etc.. praising the 'Brown plan' as if it is original even after Baroness Vadera said in news at one that Paulson's plan had similar ingredients days before Brown pompously released the plan. Peston joined with you to run Osborne story. No one at the BBC including the all pompous Paxman mentioned that money was not donated and it is hot air.
If this is not serving Labour what is? I also listened to what you said in Andrew Neil's show after PMQ. It did not sound you as neutral. Thatyoung lady who works with Neil is blatantly party political.
In conclusion my guess is, the BBC is biased towards Labour for the following reasons:
1. As my BBC friend has said there is
a pro-Labour culture by design at the BBC.
It may be because of the new Chairman's traditional sympathies with Labour. Watching BBCpolitics programmes, even my American friends who are used to political slants surprised how seemingly neutral BBC is biased towards Labour.
2. Having kicked hard by Campbell, the BBC is scared of this govt, more scared now Mandelson has arrived. I watched how Marr was deferential to Mandelson. Marr has another way of questioning if Tory leaders appear. Campbell was given contract of thousands of pounds worth to spew his nonsense called biography.
3. This is important. It has to do with the perpetuation of License poll tax as BBC cushy income. I searched the Tories attitude to this. Cameron said a few months ago that he want the BBC to share
the license fee with non-BBC channels. It is not coincidental that BBC chairman wrote a piece in the Times a few days ago presenting a non- sharing of license fee . But his aspirations sound hollow after the Peston's leak ( Bronson accused him of knowing more than himself in an deal), it is no secret that he has a friend at the Treasury and one wonders how he got away leaking senstive information which resulted in Banks share diving so fast. No action taken against this 'golden boy'. BBC Chairman's aspirations again sound hollow after BBC-Brown Broadcasting Corporation, kept osborne story alive for hours. No use in blaming The Times. Murdoch, Rathschild and Mandelson are buddies in a league so different from Murdoch's relationship with the Tories. Even Aussies hate this newspaper man who left his country.
It is time that BBC's license mandate was looked at and in this day and age with the Broadcasting technologies, the license fee to maintain a Monolith indefensible. BBC, in my opinion should become a subscription only service Its impartiality has evaporated and it is now one Party's mouthpiece.
It is absurd to say that Tory party is orchestratng the responses. If Tories have a double didgit poll lead as Guardian reported last week, the responses sound about right.
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It's hard to be objective but, yes you have failed.
Just imagine that not too long from now there will be a new blue dawn and it will be hard not to remember your partisan reporting.
I hope the BBC can eventually drag itself out of this New Labour mindset and institute recruitment policies which require no political affiliation at all for news and current affairs jobs.
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Mandelson with his record i am amazed he is entitled to hold a post in government or even be an MP, i wouldnt believe a word he says and along those lines i dont trust the fools who do trust him.
it shows how corrupt the government is and how much they need to be removed before they damage this country.
along the same lines if osborne is found to have broken parlimentary rules then he should step down or be removed.
parliment needs to rebuild the trust of the nation now more than ever, we have had too many years of self interested egotistical fools in high office and that has to change.
each and every party in parliment have problems and whilst they have internal problems they are self focused thus the job of government comes a poor second and in that the people of this little island will and do suffer.
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I still think NR has been abducted and replaced by a teletubby. (my previous comment was removed, who did I insult? NR or LA-LA???)
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In order to safeguard the independence of the BBC after the impending return of a Conservative Government, perhaps the BBC should desist from criticising the party and its 'Ministers in waiting'!
A return to a justified assault on the Labour Party is what we want!
Nick, just think back to your University days! Conservatives = good! Labour = bad!
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Given how much BBC coverage Osborne achieved for obeying the law, I dread to think how much he'd have had if he'd actually broken it!
Unless he was in the Labour Party of course, in which case the BBC might mention it in passing and then quickly write if off as "old news" or "not actually against Euro-law".
Oh, and did you know that the more the BBC weasels in that self-righteous manner, the more it sounds just like the Labour Party? Then again, why should that surprise us?
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#185 CarrotsneedaQUANGO2: "Curiously our statistician friend balhamu is rather quiet today.
Nothing to say on the crime statistics error then big B."
You didn't see his #29 then? Short and to the point - a model we should all try to follow I suggest.
The statistics are extremely good, showing a dramatic fall in crime. The fact that some forces thought that it wasn't 'most serious' if nobody got hurt does nothing to change that, in spite of what the media might say.
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re: 207, burnt_out
I hope the BBC can eventually drag itself out of this New Labour mindset and institute recruitment policies which require no political affiliation at all for news and current affairs jobs.
And maybe it'll be possible to get a job there without being a disabled black lesbian. Both the BBC and Nu-Labour forget that the individual is the smallest minority.
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Anyone know where I can get a Peter Mandelson mask for Halloween?
I want to drip-poison about my neighbours to each other and then leak some spurious news about one of them to the BBC to ensure their character is dragged through the mud...........
.............anything to distract my wife from the credit card bills I've been racking up since 1997 - I've been telling her we are in great financial health and are prepared for a downturn. She musn't hear the truth!
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Nick I put a post on The Corfu Story this morning giving you my full support for your honest reporting of the situation and indeed thanking you for your honesty whether supporting any party, my post was removed by the moderaters in a very short while it was not referred it was the sole work of the moderators, so much for Labour bias!
Do not give in to this intimidation Nick as I said earlier all I want from you is for you to tell it as you see it, God help us all if people like you allowed yourself to be swayed by the mob.
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Nick the Mail said, and they have the bare faced gall to accuse you of bias, words fail me and that doesn't happen very often, say no more.
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#185 Carrots,
Not quiet - mentioned it on the earlier blog.
What's happened today is 1,000 or so offences have been reclassified from low-level violent crime to serious violent crime in the reported crime stats.
The British Crime Survey, and another survey of A&E departments that (I think) Mark Easton referred to in his report The GBH/ABH Mistake, confirm that we have seen massive falls in violent crime. Talk to any independent expert (not politician) and they will tell you the same thing.
Also note from Mark's report that some of these upgraded crimes will be ones where no or minor injury was called but where there was "intent of GBH".
But the Home Office mistakes at least allows this to be ignored - and will help the Conservatives claim crime has risen because of the 'perception' factor caused by lack of trust in statistics.
The British Crime Survey provides more reliable violent crime data anyway
It shows violent crime has undeniably fallen
And the Telegraphs critiques of it don't change these findings
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#185 Carrots,
Not quiet - mentioned it on the earlier blog.
What's happened today is 1,000 or so offences have been reclassified from low-level violent crime to serious violent crime in the reported crime stats.
The British Crime Survey, and another survey of A&E departments that (I think) Mark Easton referred to in his report
The GBH/ABH Mistake, confirm that we have seen massive falls in violent crime. Talk to any independent expert (not politician) and they will tell you the same thing.
Also note from Mark's report that some of these upgraded crimes will be ones where no or minor injury was called but where there was "intent of GBH".
But the Home Office mistakes at least allows this to be ignored - and will help the Conservatives claim crime has risen because of the 'perception' factor caused by lack of trust in statistics.
The British Crime Survey provides more reliable violent crime data anyway
It shows violent crime has undeniably fallen
And the Telegraphs critiques of it don't change these findings
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#210 downwiththerest
Yes - quite right.
It should be the CBC
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sicilian29@202
"yeh right....(a list of serious stuff that happened)"
Not all of it, but a lot of it WAS trivial and the Conservatives and those too embarrased to admit it, made merry with it in their usual very large numbers.
Ilicipolero@203
"...do you think the phrase "Tory militia" is a slight exaggeration? .."
'Tory militia' would be an exaggeration if I said it, I assume you're not stockpiling assault weapons in your basement. But there seems to be a kind of paranoid militia type mentality in some of these rantings that is suggesting pinko liberal left commie bias at the BBC. Some are also trying to dictate the rules to the moderators and contributors about what is offensive which is a bit weird.
"..I genuinely believe this particular forum is representative of the country at large."
That's very funny! Tell us that defunct airline joke again the Trans World Airlines one. 1 comment will do.
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re: 211, rachel
Oh, and did you know that the more the BBC weasels in that self-righteous manner, the more it sounds just like the Labour Party?
True. But what's the difference?
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#192
fairlyopenmind,
Good lord above, is there no end to your recanting of the truth.
Has that large house of yours suffered another loss on the market?
Will those green pastures ever mellow your anger, melancholy blues indeed!
I just want the elitist squad of tory followers
to let go of their selfishness,just because the elitist have big houses and big flash cars
doesn't make them a natural choice to govern, good god, can we not end this fat wallet culture.
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194. At 8:30pm on 23 Oct 2008, shellingout wrote:
#180 warning123
Would I joke, pal?
A Lady!!!!!
Eeeuuurrrggghhh!! I read your mail and got this dreadful mental picture of Mandy in regency dress. I'm traumatised - but not half as much as the americans will be!
If you thought you were traumatised, you've heard nothing yet. Another role Mandy plays is the aide at No. 10 who spends a large part of his time on his knees!
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#215 and 216 grandantidote
Do you realise, probably not, that of all the Labour party supporters here you are by a considerable distance the most partisan?
Thought not!!
At what point and how awful need things be under Gordon Brown for you to wake up and smell the coffee?
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#213 pttp
And maybe it'll be possible to get a job there without being a disabled black lesbian
Yes - impossible to get a job at the BBC unless you are "a disabled black lesbian"
Like Nick Robinson, Jeremy Paxman, Jonathan Ross, Hugh Edwards, Jeremy Clarkson, Fiona Bruce, Robert Peston. All "disabled black lesbians", I'm sure you'll agree.
Indeed, why don't you put an FOI request in to find out how many "disabled black lesbians" the BBC employs. And do please come back and tell us.
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I can never get my head around the justifications made for covering some stories and not others, just as I don't think journalists in general accept (or care) that the modern style results in creating news and not reporting it.
The justification for being harder on Osborne than Mandelson in this case is well-founded, but I think misses the basic point that integrity is much more than simply staying just about the correct side of the law. It is a sad indictment of the state of both politics and journalism that a technically legal but morally dubious act is treated with a virtual shoulder shrug.
A former leader of Redditch Council is due to stand trial in January 2009 on multiple counts of fraud, theft and obtaining money by deception, including charges of obtaining tens of thousands from Redditch Council, and significant amounts from a charity supporting vulnerable young adults. Evidence includes a very strong report from the Charity Commission, although is hampered as three key witnesses have died since the investigation started. Rumours of some specific support from Jacqui Smith to the defence are unlikely to be considered as newsworthy as they would have been had the Justice Ministry not been broken off the Home Office. But the questionable morality of the alleged link is no different.
Evil flourishes where good people do nothing. The question is, are there any good people left in politics or journalism?
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Nick,
As mentioned on this week tonight and given your explanation about the focus on Osbourne due to an actual allegation being made against him, is there a chance now of some independent coverage of the revelation in tonight's guardian re inconsistencies in the length of time of the friendship between Lord M and the oligarch?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/oct/24/mandelson-labour
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As I have said in several other contributions,which funnily enough were moderated out,you've made yourself look a complete berk with this.Truly awful piece of journalism.
If you had anything about you Nick you'd front up on the box and apologise for wasting my taxes pursuing Osborne who has done nothing wrong.Hows about investigating the huge rise in violent crime with the same vigour ? No, didn't think so.
Awful,awful,awful.
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One can imagine George Osborne getting terribly excited about the prospect of meeting such a rich Russian and thinking of the opportuity of tapping him for money.
However please Nick get it into perspective, George has behaved like an idiot but he at least did not sell honours for cash like new Labour was accused of. And which still sticks to the party ...
For Brown to ask for an investigation into this is merely distracting the public when we are facing a black hole of £125 billion in the economy, the UK is tottering into a recession, people are losing jobs and the real threat of living with little to next to no money is being faced by many people.
It's almost as if you have gone to the other side Nick in which you live this high flying life being the number one political journalist in the UK. I do so wish you would get over yourself and get back to reporting on the things that we the public really do care about - first thing being the economy, second why is Gordon and Darling borrowing money to spend our way out of it....
One could ask what on earth was Peter Mandelson doing in Corfu staying with the rich when he is part of the Labour party which just a few short by-elections ago mocked the 'rich' and 'snobby' elements of the Tory party.
Peter Mandelson has been found guilty not once but twice of deceit and thrown out of government. George on the other hand has not been found guilty of taking the money, he is just guilty of being a little green about the ears. Time to get a little more streetwise.
What gets my goat more than anything is how some arrogant man by the name of Nat Rothschild dares to play such high level politics and dares to threaten a political party because he feels miffed.
What arrogance, what utter arrogance and in a time of incredible hardship being faced by many people losing jobs and houses, how dare he behave in such a way to throw his toys out of the pram because a friend was indiscreet and should have kept his mouth shut but didn't.
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There's a lot of jiggery pokery going on here now, isn't there?
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re 225
you can't use FOI, there are DP issues.
I do think that british middle to upper class britain is fast becoming a minority, so maybe we should tag and release the mentioned list of beeb employees.
balhamu, methinks you cant see the graph for all the axes (to paraphrase).
crime is crime, and this darn gummnt has let the feral youth to become the dangerous, due to THERE NOT BEING A SUFFICIENT DETERRENT!
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The compensation culture that appeared under Labour has created more 'selfishness' than Thatcher's economic policies ever did.
Labour can't tell the difference between the earned and unearned.
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#224 Ilicipolero
I find it interesting to read the diversity of views expressed here and in other blogs irrespective of their political slant.
I have to say though that, after wading through the many personalised and mean-spirited rants from you and other people on this blog, I do welcome the patience and good nature of grandantidote and others who seem to inhabit the same planet as me (that last comment is a deliberate hostage to fortune). ;o)
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#232 power_to_the_ppl
"The compensation culture that appeared under Labour has created more 'selfishness' than Thatcher's economic policies ever did."
Oh yeah?
I don't recall a Labour Prime Minister saying "There is no such thing as society".
I don't recall a Labour Chancellor saying "Unemployment is a price well worth paying ..."
We really shouldn't blame politicians for our selfishness but take responsibility for it ourselves.
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re: 234
Only under Labour can someone trip over a paving stone, cry racism at being refused money and then receive a huge handout.
That is selfishness. And greed. And Labour are responsible for engineering the social conditions which led to it.
Keep on harking back to the Tories last govt, keep on passing the blame. The public will decide in 2010.
And we will be free of Nu-BoringLiars at last.
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It is not incorrect - or even news - to state that the BBC is biased.
As Andrew Marr said: "The BBC is not impartial or neutral. It's a publicly funded, urban organisation with an abnormally large number of young people, ethnic minorities and gay people. It has a liberal bias not so much a party-political bias. It is better expressed as a cultural liberal bias."
What he didn't say, is that a 'cultural liberal bias' also manifests itself in political ways - which is why the BBC's editorial slant on most things tends to favour Nu Labour (and even more pronounced: anti-Conservative).
As Andrew Marr mentioned elsewhere: "The BBC must always try to reflect Britain, which is mostly a provincial, middle-of-the-road country. Britain is not a mirror image of the BBC or the people who work for it."
If the BBC accurately reflected British society, it would tend to be - as it once was before the trendy 60s - a conservative (with a small 'c') organisation.
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Another cop out. For goodness sake you are apid to be impartial. Surely nil reporting on Mandelson is NOT impartial. Come Nick, come on BBC.
Bellfoundry
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Derek
"Good lord above, is there no end to your recanting of the truth.
Has that large house of yours suffered another loss on the market?"
I can't see that anything I've written could be taken as "recanting the truth". Goodness knows what "the truth" is in the sphere of political endeavour. It certainly is not just what a politician (of any party) says it is...
I strongly believe that politicians (of any party) should be aware that perception of their actions does influence people. And believe that the EU has a pretty lax set of standards for their administrative staff.
I guess that my house has lost "value", along with most houses. (That doesn't seem to apply to the homes of the very rich - of which I'm not one - but Blair appears to have catapulted himself into that realm, to satisfy his very socialist wife!)
I live in a home. It has no monetary value to me until it's sold - and I've no intention of doing that.
Funnily, I've always believed that homes should be affordable. And believe that, if you allow finance houses to slosh easy money around, house prices will soar. If Brown had put a damper on mortgage fund lending (i.e. not allowed such a high loan-to-asset level, and limited loan-to-income proportions), house prices would have risen due to demand, but not at the stupid rates we've seen.
"I just want the elitist squad of tory followers to let go of their selfishness,just because the elitist have big houses and big flash cars doesn't make them a natural choice to govern, good god, can we not end this fat wallet culture."
The "fat wallet culture" is not the reserve of any particular party.
You and I are helping Balls/Cooper to buy a very expensive house in London. How the hell that can be a "second home", when they live in it, go to work from it and their kids go to school from it and they only go to their "first home" for weekends and holidays, I'll never understand.
Blair plumbed the depths with his freebie holidays and latterly his property ventures. Mandelson has a house that seemed beyond his apparent means.
As someone who has never belonged to any party, I just like to see politicians be serious about serving their electorate.
And see ministers manage their departments (and our money) with a responsible attitude.
I don't dislike Brown because he's a Labour leader. I dislike what he's done. A lack of genuine management of the cash sloshing about from massive tax-takes.
I thought the 10p tax band was a good idea and Brown was stupid to remove it in order to "give" a break to the better paid. That's not really eletist, is it? I far prefer people to keep as much as possible of what they earn, rather than having to claim back money from the state. Claims cost money to administer. And deter many people who don't fully understand what they may be entitled to.
I believe in real education for all. But buildings have little impact. Teachers do. Get a great teacher in a wooden shed and you can get a great educational output. If this adminsitration had wanted to improve standards (which they haven't), they would have poured money into teaching staff - especially in the harder area of science.
I welcome the idea that people can improve their lives. But don't like the state dictating how they should do it. And really don't like any government claiming that "they" create growth. They don't. They may make it easier for real people to create real wealth. But I am absolutely in favour of a degree of oversight - even kicking about - organisations which do stupid things. Like the finance houses in recent years.
Just don't see what Brown has done to limit the excesses.
Having voted for all three major parties, depending on the situation, I don't need some knee-jerk political garbage about "eletist" attitudes.
The "Osb" has been silly. He has no power. The "Mand" has been rediculous. He says he had no real power to dictate EU decisions on Russian aluminium trading. In that case, why do we pay him so much?
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#234
Maybe not, but I do recall a Labour Chancellor and Prime Minister saying "No more boom and bust".
I also recall him lying when CLAIMING "I only ever said no more Tory boom and bust", as the number of quotes posted on previous blogs have shown.
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ROBINSON and PESTON IN DOUBLE ACT
I am reliably informed that the BBC has formed a new department, the Department of Light and Dark Entertainment, to leverage the talents of its "Celebrity Commentators."
Its first production will feature that well known duo, Nick "The Cheeky Chappie" Robinson and Bob "Doctor Doom" Peston, with Peston being the "straight man".
In the 30 minutes show, Robinson and Peston will each cover both politics and business following the success of the trial run over the "Osbourne Affair."
Using their now normal strategies of setting the agenda rather than just reporting on the news, the dynamic duo will tell us what is going to happen in the next seven days based on private conversations with unnamed individuals at the top of both politics and business.
Another feature, borrowed from "Who Wants to be a Millionaire", will allow Nick and Robert to "Phone Friend." I understand that in the first show Nick phones Pete "Prince of Darkness" Mandelson and Bob phones Nat "Super Hedger"Rothschild for "on the air" denials of anything they may be being accused of.
Future celebrities with their own programmes may include John "Rotweiller" Humphrys, Sarah "Always the wrong question" Montague, Andrew "Ears" Marr, and Evan "Metalman" Davis, but not necessarily in that order.
I can't wait - can you?
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
It doesn't wash Nick at all.
This 'story' had widespread BBC coverage and it blew up in your face. Most telling was Mr. Peston's involvement which certainly was more influenced by other events than the actual story.
The BBC has been caught squarely with it's hands firmly bashing keyboards in favour of Labour.
Caught in the act, and it kept on doing it!
I remember the coverage of Black Wednesday and the sheer hostility from the BBC to the Conservative's actions. I remember the number touted that it cost us £20bn.
Now, in 2008. we are enduring the most spectacular bust in British banking and economic history.
Cost so far £600bn+
Has this government been held to account? After all, it was this government's banking regulation that failed.
That's Brown's own regulation.
No.
Has government actions to over-borrow, fail to save and over-spend been held to account?
No.
Has a certain government minister's tangled involvement with a Russian oligarch been held to account?
No.
Mr Osborne went to that yacht a couple of times.
MR MANDLESON WAS STAYING ON THAT YACHT AS A GUEST FOR TWO WEEKS!!!!!!
The BBC has not been impartial at all. There are many questions surrounding Mr. Mandelson and Mr. Deripaska especially in terms of favourable EU decisions in Mr. Deripaska's favour.
Today, it reported that Mr. Mandelson does not favour a return to 1980s style economics.
No, we are getting a re-run of the 1970s.
A Labour bust and then record borrowing to spend our way out of this.
It didn't work then, it won't work now.
Why aren't the BBC critiquing this?
The government's banking bail-out was inspired by the Swedish and re-invented by two bankers at Standard Chartered.
It was not more Brown's plan than Mr. Sarkozy's or Mr. Paulson's.
Yet, the BBC plaudits for Brown know no bounds.
It is simple, we want the unexpunged facts truth without embellishments or favour, it is stated as so in the BBC Charter.
You can keep your opinions to yourself, we are perfectly able to form our own.
I think the thing that worries the BBC the most, is they may actually be contrary to their own.
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Nick
Since you seem know everything that is going on, and going to happen, in politics, how long before Mandelson (I can't bring myself to call him Lord) redigns for the THIRD TIME?
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A little something from the private sector - you know, the wealth creators
In The City
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Embrassed Nick? You should be.
One might be wondering if yours, Pestons and the entire BBC's 'judgement' should be brought into question.
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So, here we are, another day and what important political issues are there to discuss, I wonder?
Recession? No, too damaging to El Gordo.
Bodged crime statistics? No, too much of the same from the Home Office.
Collapsing economies around the world? No, can't get at the tories with that one, not their fault.
Climate change issues? No, can't afford them now.
Forthcoming Autumn budget statement from the silver ghost? Good go no, far too difficult.
Let's leave this useless story lying around. It'll take a week to get up to 500 posts.
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Well as you yourself have stated Nick, the perception of wrongdoing is often greater than the offence itself.
Actually, in this case there was no wrongdoing whatsoever at all on the part of Osborne, only an allegation, but you and your co-defendents at the BBC pursued the perception with zeal whilst deliberately choosing to ignore the greater perception of wrongdoing on the part of Mandelson.
Then when you are accused of bias, you claim no wrong doing.....
...Ah the irony....as the perception remains.
In fact, everyone from outside the labour bubble that has looked at this sees a great deal of pro labour bias bordering on outright propaganda.
I see the story has gone quiet today as you cannot find any wrong doing on Osborne's part either???..... So Nick, where is the apology?
Or at least, will you be much more careful in future? For example, whilst the allegation had been made about Osborne, would it not have been more prudent for you to investigate IF any wrongdoing had actually been committed before rushing to press?
The perceptin is that you were not presenting this as an independent reporter, more as an interested party on the side of the labour prosecution. It is a matter of emphasis. You seem to place much more emphasis on the allegation against tories than on the caveats. For example: THE ALLEGATION AGAINST OSBORNE IS ONE OF SOLICITING AN ILLEGAL DONATION FROM FOREIGNERS but he hasn't done anything actually illegal. THE PERCEPTION IS ONE OF POOR JUDGEMENT.
Whereas when you report on allegations of labour wrong doing: Labour have been accused of wrongdoing BUT WE MUST EMPHASISE THAT THERE HAS BEEN NO PROOF AT THIS STAGE.
See the difference?
You have been made to look like an absolute fool as well as a labour puppet and your credibility as an independent reporter is completely shot.
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Here Nick, I've found a good one for you.
I've just read the report of the Villa game on the sports pages, and I don't think your reporter was actually there, or paying attention.
I refer specifically to the subs not used area of the report, which was clearly inaccurate, and needs to be thoroughly investigated.
The good news element for you in this is that its non-political, so you can't get accused of bias.
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"If the BBC accurately reflected British society, it would tend to be - as it once was before the trendy 60s - a conservative (with a small 'c') organisation."
here here...
After 4 consecutive Conservative terms in office, labour had to become a caricature of the conservatives to secure a further 3 terms. If that does not show that this country is at least conservative (with a small c) I do not know what does.
The BBC should reflect that in its coverage.
As for liberal? Liberal???? IF the BBC reflected a liberal body of opinion, then they would be at war with the labour party over their authoritarian legislation. They would be firmly against ID cards and all the other ID databases and spying and tracking technology that the government are trying to use against the population.
The BBC are NOT a liberal organisation as far as their news service is concerned, but is very nearly a labour party advertising service.
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>"It's almost as if you have gone to the other side Nick in which you live this high flying life being the number one political journalist in the UK. I do so wish you would get over yourself and get back to reporting on the things that we the public really do care about - first thing being the economy, second why is Gordon and Darling borrowing money to spend our way out of it...."
Agreed totally but feel the need to amend, "second why is Gordon and Darling borrowing money to spend our way out of it...." Which we taxpayers will have to repay, PLUS INTEREST!
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Well there is zero surprise that Mandelson has made misleading statements about the Rothschild-Yacht affair. Everyone knows he is dodgy to the core:
Guardian give the BBC a lesson in investigative journalism
The same article does try and give the Conservatives a kicking, although not very successfully:
1. Osbourne did not register a stay at Rothschild's house on his hols (does he really need to register a visit to friends?!)
2. Cameron accepted some free flights (which he registered!!)
3. They question a £6,000 donation - well lets see how that one pans out - but really - that does seem trivial.
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Not much improvement in the moderation time, making it difficult to keep up to speed with what's happening.
Still, it's in keeping with the topic of the thread, which has the same relationship to political reality.
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@ 222 Derek >"I just want the elitist squad of tory followers
to let go of their selfishness,just because the elitist have big houses and big flash cars
doesn't make them a natural choice to govern, good god, can we not end this fat wallet culture."
----------------------------------------------
Derek, you hate elitists? Then why support the labour traitors who worship the elite banking families at the expense of the rest of us?
When Rover was in trouble, where was the bail out? When the corrupt and greedy banking elite are in trouble, the tax paying public become a cash cow that will eventually foot the multi hundred billion pound bill for LABOUR'S rush to save the elite from getting what they deserve!
We, the people, can create a better, fairer, more equitable banking system that serves the people of this country. Gordon Brown is responsible for removing a lot of the regulation that would have prevented the current problems. Gordon Brown is the person that removed the oversight of the Bank of England when he gave them independence. Gordon Brown is the politician that has done more to suck up to the global elite and cave in to their demands than any other. Labour have become even more elitist than the tories. Take off your blinkers for a moment and that will become crystal clear.
You hate elitism? STOP VOTING FOR IT THEN!!!
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In the latest BBC puff-piece
about Mandelson, he (Mandelson) comments:
"I don't believe what has happened is market failure in the financial sector. I believe it is a regulatory failure."
This is obviously a dig (inadvertent or otherwise) at Gordon Brown: after all, who, if not Brown, set up the FSA and the current regulatory structure?
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#220 dhwilkinson
That's politics isn't it? I'll clarify what I said about this blog being representative etc
More and more people who were once apolitical now find their lives hampered or in some cases, blighted, by this Government. So, quite probably, come Election time these people will cast their vote against Labour, in the meantime, for some this is a good place to find a voice to make a protest.
Too often innocuous comments are moderated out having been referred by other users. Hardwidge is unecessarily renowned for doing this. My simple remedy is to completely ignore everything this person contributes. The defunct airline thing was quite rightly moderated out, people are people and sometimes become frustrated or furious.
Have a good day
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Well question time was a bit of an eye opener.
While this blogs overiding question is still about George Osbornes Judgement, I have a question regarding judgement.
What kind of leader would nominate someone to head up a department, then bar that new head of department from commenting on national TV, about party poilcy as he did not tow the Party line?
If Gordon Brown or Jackie Smith had any doubts about the Gaffe prone Phil Woolas, why did they decide to put him in such an important position as Minister for Immegration? Surely minister for Toys would have been better.
That truly is a case of Poor Judgement, or maybe fingernails on splintered wood at the bottom of the barrel.
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233 vor-tecks
Could it be that the planet that both you and grandantidote inhabit is the one between Saturn and Neptune?
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Is there an organisation monitoring or questioning the bias in the newspapers towards the Tories? They might as well be on the Tory payroll. There's nothing but 'government scandal' headlines, especially in the free papers - the distribution of which is surely tantamount to some sort of indoctrination/brainwashing strategy.
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I've been concerned about Osborne and Cameron's bullishness, opacity, and inexperience for a while. This story helps open the door on that.
Chris Huhne of the Liberals comes out today in support of government finance and warns against Osborne and Cameron talking the country down for party political reasons. This is a charge that is beginning to stick and Huhne just adds intellectual ballast to that position.
My general view is the the Tories stock is overvalued, and they need to go beyond mere branding and polls to fix themselves so they're fit for any role in governance. As the nasty party coughs up its subconcious and the Liberals reassert themselves as the unofficial opposition, I suspect, their headline prospects will reflect that soon enough.
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Reference my post @ 251
.... reference the new £6,000 foreign donor charge levelled at the Conservatives.
I have just found that this is a non issue:
Still no dirt - keep on digging Labour
The return of Mandelson, Campbell and Derek Draper has renewed the vile edge of the Labour political machine.
Labour policy 2008: If you can't convince the public you are doing a good job - then smear your opponents and 'lie to the public' (i.e. Brown's claim to have reduced debt by £100m)
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No more boom and bust...
er...
UK GDP down 0.5% q/q
The government has no mandate
Call an election
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#233 vor_tecks
...I find it interesting to read the diversity of views expressed here and in other blogs irrespective of their political slant.
I have to say though that, after wading through the many personalised and mean-spirited rants from you and other people on this blog, I do welcome the patience and good nature of grandantidote and others who seem to inhabit the same planet as me (that last comment is a deliberate hostage to fortune). ;o)....
Mean spirited? Perfectly fair enough, I respect your opinion, sticks and stones and all that.
Personalised? Maybe sometimes.
Everybody here is capable of ranting in the same way they can contribute measured words.
Talking of which, grandantidote has a style all of his own, his passion seems apparent.
Having said that, if you go back far enough for sure you'll find rants or personalised comments from both sides of the divide.
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Moderators, is this any better, although not quite as entertaining?
ROBINSON and PESTON IN DOUBLE ACT
I am reliably informed that the BBC has formed a new department, the Department of Light and Dark Entertainment, to leverage the talents of its "Celebrity Commentators."
Its first production will feature that well known duo, Nick "The Cheeky Chappie" Robinson and Bob "Doctor Doom" Peston.
In the 30 minutes show, Robinson and Peston will each cover BOTH politics and business following the success of the trial run over the "Osbourne Affair."
Using their new strategy of setting the agenda rather than just reporting on the news, the dynamic duo will tell us what is going to happen in the next seven days based on private conversations with unatributed individuals at the top of both politics and business.
Another feature, borrowed from "Who Wants to be a Millionaire", will allow Nick and Robert to "Phone Friend." I understand that in the first show Nick phones Pete "Prince of Darkness" Mandelson and Bob phones Nat "Super Hedger"Rothschild.
.
I can't wait - can you?
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242 PhaetonFlanFlinger
Well said!!
There are 3,000 journalists in the BBC (apparently!!). Maybe the BBC could divert some of them to look into these two questions:
1. What is the government's delivery record over the last 11 year and has this been value for money?
2. What are the Conservatives plans for Government?
I'm fed up with BBC opinion pieces. I want cold hard critical assessment.
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Hmm...
Here's another juicy tit bit to demonstrate BBC bias.
Mr. Osborne rebutts an offer of a donation from a non-UK national to the tune of 50K.
Could someone explain to me why the BBC has failed to mention at this at the most opportune moment?
Mr Mittal, an Indian national has given the Labour Party - FOUR MILLION QUID.
Oh, he owns a few UK listed companies.
So that's alright then....
Oh how about Mr. Blair actually doing some PR for Mr. Mittal's companies as a result?
So that's ok as well....
The BBC has been found out as having a petulant fit because the Conservatives have suggested sharing the license fee money when they are elected.
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Is it true that the BBC Politics Unit is taking over editorship of the Socialist Worker?
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Whatever Osborne's faults, he's not stupid and it's hard to believe that he wasn't aware that a) foreign donations were illegal and b) a donation could however be lawfully channelled via a UK based company like, er, LDV, which is apparently owned by this Russian gentleman.
Since even I, a humble time-waster in the provinces, can work this out, what are we to make of its absence in the postulations of all the BBC's finest on the subject?
I'll tell you what I made of it. Mr Robinson and his colleagues didn't want to mention it because the possibility that Osborne had been touting for a donation which would have been perfectly legal would have shot their fox. The story depended on the donation being illegal. Therefore let's not mention the possibility, apparent to the meanest understanding, that it might have been legal after all.
A cynic might say (and let's face it, we live in a world in which cynicism is amply borne out by events) that the BBC had tired of months of having to deal with NuLab's incompentence and was delighted with the opportunity to kick the Tories where it hurts.
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#238 fairlyopenmind
Thanks for that, probably the most balanced and sensible comment so far, a refreshing change from all the inter-party back-baiting.
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Ha ha
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It's being reported in the Guardian that Mandelson released a misleading statemennt regarding how long he had know the Russian Billionaire.
I Wonder if the BBC will report this with the same vigour as they reported Osborne
I won't hold my breath
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Mikepko@243
You asked when Mandelson is going to resign.
I can't post the link for some reason - but Paddy Power have these odds at the moment:
2008 = 7-1
2009 = 15-8
2010 = 4-7
Not soon enough!
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Credit where credit's due. The BBC have at least relegated this story from Item One on The Wednesday 6 o'clock News to the final issue on Question Time last night so they do realise it's a dying story. Of course it suits various individuals to keep it running but it can't because it has no legs. Time to move on to more important matters.
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Hi Nick,
I see that nice Mr Woolas is at it again. Strange, he wasn't allowed to appear on QT, but now he's mouthing off again.
Does somebody know something we don't? And I wonder who that somebody might be?
Aren't you just a teensy bit curious? Is he, perhaps, a closet non-party line politician?
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purple and max @ 249
After 4 consecutive Conservative terms in office, labour had to become a caricature of the conservatives to secure a further 3 terms. If that does not show that this country is at least conservative (with a small c) I do not know what does. The BBC should reflect that in its coverage.
I agree that the country tends to be small cee conservative - but that's why it's good that the beeb isn't. I don't want the BBC to reflect prevailing public attitudes, thank you very much, I'd much prefer that they challenge them.
If the beeb mirrored the public, the same old mix of ignorance and prejudice would be batted back and forth between broadcaster and audience, in the process being reinforced and magnified. It would be like a couple of razzled old geezers down the pub, swapping ever more lurid stories to demonstate that, say, hanging should be brought back - preferably in public.
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Oh dear, we're all a little poorer again. Stock market down, and scottish bank shares also down. This affects all of us, since our magnificent investment management team bought in on our behalf.
I wonder, did they get a two week cooling off period when they decided to buy?
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Looks like there is an emerging Sterling crisis. Maybe Nick will at last find something else to do.
But probably he will hound David Cameron for actually delcaring his trip to see Rupe
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271 Jc
And I wsn't being serious. looks like others are!!!
5th November 2008 would be a good time.
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Here's a thought.
Could we have some of that tory boom and bust please, that El Gordo claimed to have got rid of, because the labour version is no good?
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Here Nick,
you know all those countries that are queueing at the IMF to get loans? Where do you think the IMF gets it money? The "rich" countries like us. Try following that story, and see how Peston likes it.
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I note some people are claiming that Britain is a country with a small 'c' perspective and the BBC (and all dissenting opinions) should reflect that as a default. I doubt the validity of that claim and it's no criteria for choice in any case. It's just another way of the right wing shaping reality and applying pressure on people who don't fit into their little club.
The Tao comments on the low versus high road, and this can be roughly mapped to the feminine and masculine, and the right brain and left brain.
All things spring from and are embraced by te feminine. While the masculine can be a bright light that reaches idzzying hights, it always collapses back into the feminine, as the recent financial crisis has clearly demonstrated.
Britain's Druid religion was later supplanted by the Roman Empire's later Christianity, and this culture in turn was supplanted by the Abglo-Saxon culture. It's generally closed minded and hostile, and this is root to Britain's broken economic fundamentals, macho leadership, sado-masochistic relationship between the ruler and the ruled, and worryingly bling and chav driven culture.
You can see this performance acted out in here every day. As competitive behaviour increases it causes a spiral of rigidity and seperation into partisan camps, comment becomes ever more narrow and inflexible,and sentiments more one sided and negative. Content and social interaction gives way to overt sexualising of comment and rules of conduct become ever more frequent topic of discussion. More reasonable opinion, regular folks, expert opinion, directly involved stakeholders, and women tend to be driven away by this.
The Anglo-Saxon, Reagon-Thatcher, or Brutal Capitalism model has failed. The underlying trend is towards practicality and sociability and, I think, Britain would benefit more from getting in touch with itself, calming down, and being a nicer place. I prefer beautiful things and don't like girls swaggering like cowboys, and the combined weight of Asia with its primarily Buddhist leanings is changing the general emotional colour of the Anglo-Saxon mentality whether it likes it or not.
Britain has become a trash and nasty country, and the resurgent right wing is trying to make a comeback, but things are changing again. I think, I hope, it's the last fling of a dying ethos because it sure as hell hasn't done anything for me. I hold no candle for the BBC or its critics but it's probably exactly where it needs to be and the right wing screaming and howling probably makes as good a case for that as any.
Welcome to tomorrow.
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sicilian @ 272
Of course it suits various individuals to keep it running but it can't because it has no legs. Time to move on to more important matters.
Fair enough, I agree. The story ran for less than a week and Osborne survives - badly (but not yet fatally) damaged by the glimpse afforded to us of how he remains, at heart, an immature and totally out of touch Eton schoolboy.
That's about the right outcome, don't you think? - and, yes, let's move on to other things now.
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Nick,
we have reports about the number of former soldiers who have been imprisoned subsequent to their release from the army.
In the meantime adverts are shown, funded by the MoD, telling young men what a great job they can do in the armed forces.
Furthermore, there are reports today in the papers about two captains being given dishonourable discharges from the army for taking cocaine.
Furthermore, there were injunctions taken out preventing the reporting of any of the details in respect of some soldiers who have done somehing whch cannot be reported.
I personally wonder when exactly we can expect to see the report resulting from the Bloody Sunday inquiry.
As for Robert Peston then I think that we can soon expect to have a joint report from the BBC made up of three people, yourself Nick for the politics, Robert for the Economy but I wonder who will present the philosophy, remember Project Griffin.
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This country is crying out for a new government. Nobody is happy with the status quo and many are feeling insecure, unsafe and unsure of the country they once knew.
The Conservatives are going to get massive support, some of which is undoubtedly just because they are not Labour. However, there is an awful lot of people swelling up who are or will be in favour of the BNP.
In desperate times people will take what some will call desperate measures.
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274 Willi
That nice Mr Woolas was on Radio 4 Today programme this morning. No wonder he was pulled.
He couldn't quite get right the maximum 70million inhabitants for the UK part.
Yes he did say 70m, but no he didn't say 70m, and on, and on, and on .......
He was appalling.
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#274 saga
Why stop at hanging? Let's bring back drawing and quartering as well.
If I follow your line of reasoning correctly vis a vis the BBC and our society, since we have abolished those methods of punishment, the BBC ought to be encouraging their re-introduction.
Or did I misunderstand you?
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Now we learn that 'Dave', whilst on his hols in the Med, has been cosying up to the Murdochs.
Which is no more or no less than what Tony Blair did prior to 1997, when he flew all the way to Australia to persuade Murdoch to switch his titles to support NL in the forthcoming General Election.
If only children could learn something about politics at school, then they might grow into adults who would be able to see through some of the games that politicians play with our lives.
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277
Further to my comment on Woolas, he said "many people will leave the UK".
I hope to be one of them, and the sooner the better.
I'm sure you agree, particularly GA.
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OK, who was it? Who woke up the slumbering towering intellect?
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74.
>And one question I'd like the BBC to ask him is:
>"Mr Osborne, if you cannot be trusted by >friends to keep a confidence why should you >be trusted by the electorate to keep the >public purse?"
erm, how about the current holders of the public purse? Largest government debt since records began following ten years of global boom, and we're only just going into the recession!
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Nick...This is the closest we have got to seeing you squirm about allegations of your bias.
Perhaps its time for you to make amends by either admitting it (not holding my breath!), or bite the hand that feeds you, and report on Mandelson's involvement in all this.
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tuga @ 285
If I follow your line of reasoning correctly vis a vis the BBC and our society, since we have abolished those methods of punishment, the BBC ought to be encouraging their re-introduction. Or did I misunderstand you?
Yes, tuga, I'm afraid you did.
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Chuckie @280....
Been eating the Encyclopaedia Brittanica for breakfast again?
You sound ever more like a robot that spews out sentences comprised of randomly picked out words from it.
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CEH said
"Britain has become a trash and nasty country"
For once, Charles, I completely agree with you. This is why I want to leave.
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john constable @ 286
Now we learn that 'Dave', whilst on his hols in the Med, has been cosying up to the Murdochs.
Depressing isn't it?
I'd like to see Murdoch publications on the top shelf, wrapped in extremely hard to undo clingfilm.
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#284 Mikepko
Don't you find the same about all of them? They've got some spin they've been told to impart, and we all know by whom, and they get on with it, but don't really grasp the inconsistencies they keep spouting.
We might have to wait, probably not much longer, but we'll get them all.
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I've stated my policy on moderation and feel no need to make an issue of or defend things further than that. It's kinda sad you want to develop blinkers and take that attitude, but going on about it isn't going to change a thing.
Personally, I just think you're feeling the heat and are bit miffed that someone hasn't just rolled over. If you want to keep libelling me or promoting a nasty attitude you'll get moderated out every time.
I can happily watch the right wing in here tear themselves apart with fear and paranoia, just like Mandelson is probably blowing smoke rings while the Tories poll ratings implode as if by magic.
I've been at this game longer than you, sonny. There isn't a single trick people pull in here that I haven't seen before and, like Mandelson, I haven't stood still and have matured over the years.
Grow up before you hurt yourself, sonny.
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Nick,
I understand about what you editor said.
Now there is a new revelation about Mandelson and this Russian billionaire.
The Guardian reports today that Mandelson, Rothschild and the Russian met in Moscow way back in 2004 and again in 2005. Mandelson's hand in Montenegro's investments of the Russian etc..
Now that this has thrown some new lights in the Corfu saga, could we expect you and Preston to write about this ? Or are you both very scared about Mandelson and the New Labour now that Campbell has returned? Could we please expect the BBC to show some neutrality and bring to us the stories that will afftects us. Because Mandelson is the Business Secretary in Brown's govt. Could we also expect you to question Brown about inquiry into Mandelson, Rothschild and Russian triagular relationships. The latter have interests in the UK. It should also interest Preston as the Russian runs a company here.
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tag @ 282
Did you see Imran Khan on Andrew Neil last night, talking about the Afghan war and Pakistan?
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#291 saga
Ah, so you do want the BBC to reflect the popular culture, and not oppose or challenge it then.
Knew we'd get it right in the end.
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shelling @ 293
For once, Charles, I completely agree with you. This is why I want to leave.
My goodness, are any of you Evil Reactionary types NOT planning to leave the country?
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Nick finishing his humble pie this morning or something?
All gone a bit quiet
When a scoop is a cheap swipe.
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How is it that poilticians can be allowed to wheel and deal behind the scenes, without any form of accountability being brought into question by the media?
The BBC always used to be the epitome of imparshiality and its reporters would ask the questions which were on everyone's lips, and keep pressing for a suitable answer.
All I can see now is contrived programmes, with interviewers meekly accepting the words of these people as if they were gospel.
Something has to be done, Nick. The BBC's reputation is at stake.
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sagamix @274,
The BBC is funded by a tax paid by TV owners.
I might not want it to be 'challenging'. I might want it to reinforce my prejudices.
You don't? Fine.... I know: let's all stop being forced to pay for something we either don't want or don't like.
And, since you mentioned: Yes - capital punishment should be brought back. (Another example of something that the majority of the people in this country want, but our politicians won't countenance).
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rjd @ 261
The government has no mandate
Apart from winning the last general election, you mean?
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#300 saga
Yes, I'm planning to saty here. Nobody will have me.
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Quite remarkable isnt it. If you disagree with any policy of the current administration you appear to be at risk of being put in the category of in the pay of the Conservatives, or part of some conspriacy network. That may be the case with th odd individual, in the same way there appears to be the odd troll or flamebaiter about. In my case I express my own opinion. I am not a member of any political party. As far as this governments policies are concerned I am dubious about some of them, certainly some of the ones in the past and some current proposals. As some Labour MPs also appear to not agree some Labour policies are they going to be accused of being Conservatives or paid by the Conservatives also. It is a ridiculous proposition. If policies can be argued to have failed in the past then I need that much more assurance that new policies proposed by the same culprits are going to actually work. It is obvious failures have occurred when steps to unpick the mess have to be taken which are at odds with the original policy(s). It is pertinent to question any policy, government, oppostion party, institution or agency or LGA, and if it cannot stand scrutiny or debate it is not robust. Is that why debate and scrutiny is so shunned by some. Incidently just as importantly the implementation of policy also needs to be robust, and time and time again it is lacking. Irrelevent of whatever assurances there are whether systematically something should and can theoretically have integrity, the question is whether it happens in practice, whether it is a Brazilian being shot repeatedly in the head, or data being left on a nightclub floor, or a war, or economic failures, or the CSA, or other reforms. I do not have blind faith. The issue of the yacht, whether Osborne or Mandelson is being blown out of all proportion when the main issue is economic and social policy. It has the look of diversionary tactics. Osborne does not look brilliant, but neither does Mandelson, nor does Blair, or Brown. How long a list do you want. Do you want to try overseas, Bush, Greenspan. Just get on with the job please.
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#300 sagamix
"My goodness, are any of you Evil Reactionary types NOT planning to leave the country?"
I did a bit of working out last week. It's costing us an arm and a leg to live here at the moment (I'm talking about general household bills and insurances here) and it's not going to get better any time soon. Why should we both work our backsides off just to live every month when we could live very much cheaper elsewhere in Europe?
Give me one good reason to stay - and I'll consider it!
PS. I'm really not an Evil Reactionary - just a very ordinary member of Joe Public trying to make ends meet.
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tuga @ 299
Ah, so you do want the BBC to reflect the popular culture, and not oppose or challenge it then.
Yes that's exactly right - that's the opposite of what I want.
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Chuck E Hardwidge @280,
I'm not sure whether or not you have personal experience of living and working in Asia. (What am I thinking: Chuck has experienced and knows everything!!!)
From my reasonably extensive personal experience of 'Asia' from Turkey in the east, through parts of the middle east, south and south east asia and China (but excluding, I admit, Japan and Korea), I can only say how glad I am to live in Europe in general, and England in particular.
[BTW, your sentence "and the combined weight of Asia with its primarily Buddhist leanings", neatly discards a billion or so Hindus, plus hundreds of millions of muslims and others who together account for over 50% of 'Asia's' population. But that would contradict your thesis....]
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Unbelievable that even the Guardian is digging deeper than the BrownBroadcastingCorporation, who will be next to chase the real story? The Morning Star?
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#304
where in the newlabour manifesto was the mandate to nationalise the banks?
where in the manifesto was the commitment to not put the EU treaty to a vote?
Where in the newlabour manifesto was the return of bust? Godon Brown promised the end of boom and bust.
Where in the newlabour manifesto was the offer to bring back disgraced ministers?
Where in the newlabour mainfesto was Gordon Brown the prime minister?
Where in the newlabour manifesto did they suggest the first run on a bank for 140 years?
Where in the newlabour manifesto was the commmitment to trash the currency over 30% against the dollar, Swiss Franc and Euro?
None of this appeared in their manifesto.
They have no mandate.
QED
Call an election
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290 Don'tneedthegief and 297 Brightfastflipper
I'll bet 50p that the reason that Nick is so quiet is that he is at this very moment conducting an in-depth and through interview with Mandelson over the Guardian allegations.
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max @ 303
Yes - capital punishment should be brought back. (Another example of something that the majority of the people in this country want, but our politicians won't countenance).
That's my point - you need an intellectual left leaning elite in order to provide ballast against the chanting mob (as it were).
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300# Sagamix wrote:
shelling @ 293
For once, Charles, I completely agree with you. This is why I want to leave.
My goodness, are any of you Evil Reactionary types NOT planning to leave the country?
....................
Saga, old chum, they always threaten this but never do. May have something to do with the fact that you need to be a saleable commodity to emigrate to most countries. As a green card holder, I am well aware of this.
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So close on midday, and still no new thread. Can't be anything important happening.
Wonder if the recession will hit Russian oil millionaires?
Wonder if it will hit ermine clad peers in the house of lords?
Wonder if it will hit MPs with fat salries, expenses, and a plump pesnion pot at the end of their time?
Wonder if it will hit everyone else?
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Ooh Nick, think I've spotted a bit of bias that isn't against the tories.
It appears in an article about Stoke, specifically hopes that the BNP might benefit from the economic downturn.
"So you'll run a campaign putting the blame for the downturn on immigration?", I ask.
It would be remarkable if they didn't."
Loaded question, or what? And as for the snide comment.
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sagamix @ 294
When these politicians cosy up to media barons and billionaires, I see it as illuminating rather than depressing.
The politicians understandably feel that if some of the media can be persuaded to support them or at least not attack them, then that is useful and possibly significant at election time.
For example, in recent times, the Daily Mail has broadly given Gordon Brown an easy time, apparently due to a personal freindship with editor Paul Dacre.
All I am concerned with is that the English people, when reading, listening or watching the media, are savvy enough to filter out any political bias rather than let it feed their prejudices.
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Please everyone stop criticising the BBC for bias. I mean they only recruit via the Guardian therefore must get a candidate from across the board applying. There is absolutely no need to suggest it is bias at all.
I'll see if the mods have the courage to post this!
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#308 saga
I think I'm gradually getting this. You want the BBC to oppose what society wants, but not in all aspects. Only those bits with which you profoundly disagree, is that right?
I'm using your views on hanging, drawing and quartering here. Society has done away with these, but you don't want the BBc to challenge this at all. You do, however, want them to challenge conservative political views. Would that be all conservative views, or just some?
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Nick do you ever ever reply to your comments?? It would seem here that you should at least come out and say something, either in your defence or, preferably in apology for the shameful way you have reported on this story....
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#315 T'uga
Forget about the 2nd, 3rd and 4th line of your post. I am sure that the Russian oil millionaires, ermine-clad peers and MP's with fat salaries will have made absolutely sure that they won't lose out on anything.
It will hit everyone else.
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#314 NottingHillHammer
"Saga, old chum, they always threaten this but never do. May have something to do with the fact that you need to be a saleable commodity to emigrate to most countries. As a green card holder, I am well aware of this."
Oh dear, Notting..... just shows how much you know.
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#312 j_c
I'd be careful with that 50p of yours, you'll probably be able to buy a whole bank with it very soon.
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Perhaps Nick is "tending to his garden" ?!?
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307 shellingout
I know some young professionals looking hard at going aboard. The pay is better, housing cheaper and the weather better. Can't blame them. Its called voting with your feet and it will weaken the UK. People who feel insulated from the problem will find out they are not when the best and brightest clear off.
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...and still silence.
Mandelson has been reported as issuing misleading statements regarding how long he had known the Russian Billionaire and yet from Nick Robinson and the BBC nothing, absolutely nothing.
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Saga,
So you think the BBC should reflect the will of a minority of the country rather than the majority simply because you think they know better? That means the BBC would be a propaganda machine for the elite minority.
Simply put, the BBC is PUBLICLY funded, and should therefore provide programming for all. The requirement is public service broadcasting, not party political broadcasts.
The news should be about factual information and education, not opinion and speculation. And by education I do NOT mean re-educating the public in the way you want them to think - after all, look at what multi-culturalism has done / is doing to our country - even Trevor Phillips now says its a bad idea, but its an idea that was foist upon us by the very same elite minority you seem to think we should all blindly follow.
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The orchestrated response from the Tories is unbelievable!
Lets face it who has time to spend all day blogging or making calls to the BBC ?
Unless you are in the Shadow Cabinet you probably have a proper job or if you are unemployed its hardly likely you are a well healed Tory, the pattern of blogs on here gave the game away and now we learn the Tories are pursuing this alleged bias via every angle available.
The Tories do not like scrutiny, they never have and they never will, they have had it easy for so long that they expect they can walk into government without any difficult questions being asked, they have come up with no answers to the current crisis and lets be honest, when you are as well healed and indifferent to the common good as them it hardly matters if a few pensioners are going to freeze in the coming months.
If this bunch of cads get into government then expect the bitterest, most arrogant and dam right nasty government the UK has ever seen.
The BBC has battered Labour relentlessly for the last decade, its about time the Tories were subject to the same level of scrutiny.
Well done the BBC.
Thank you.
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MiniTruth (formerly BBC News) recommend that all further discussions on MiniTruth bias towards the Party, our Glorious Leader, GB, and his faithfully Inner Party Member, Peter O'Brian Mandelson, be continued on the Minilove website.
To access Minilove site first forward name and address to MiniLove:ThoughtCrime Correction Department.
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Here y'are Nick, a few more interesting topics for you to avoid:
No progress on the Iceland talks - does this mean people haven't had their money back yet? How much worth is there in a government guarantee? Answers on the back of a postage stamp please.
Civil servants going on strike over pay. These are people who owe their jobs to El Gordo and his previous inflationary spending plans. Ungrateful wretches.
Current state of play in Glenrothes by-election. Or is that not good news for the government?
NHS not making enough use of IT. This is after wasting 15 bn, or so, of tax payers money failing to create a national booking system.
Go on, spoil us. Start up a new thread.
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People want a better government, better country, and have need help getting over themselves. That doesn't mean some revolution in name only with a Thatcherite party plugged in by lazy default.
Jeez, talk about closed minded and self-serving.
I don't like Britain and barely tolerate its people. The country I knew is dead so, effectively, I'm a foreigner.
I tend to think the British argue too much and are a bit insular. Sharper rules and more politeness would help but people can't stop kicking off when you press the issue.
Perhaps, Britain has to change, we have to change, or both have to change. Because, stay or go, that's were we'll be whatever happens.
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On the recession - first we had Gordon and Alistair telling us that we would be sheltered from any downturn because of their magnificent stewarding of the economy over the last ten years.
Then we had growth will slow but not stall because of the magnificent . . .
Then we had there will only be a short downturn in the economy because of the . . .
Then we got there might be a technical recession due to 2 quarters of negative growth, but year on year the economy will still grow.
Well, following the latest figures, the year on year growth currently stands at 0.3%. The last quarter the economy shrank by 0.5%. Does anybody believe the next set of figures will be any better than the current set? From where I stand, we have not even reached the bottom yet, the job losses are only just starting, and the house repossessions will inevitably follow, meaning the figures will get worse.
So, in 3 months time, I fully expect the economy to shrink again, which brings us technically into recession, AND the figures will be at least as bad as this time, meaning that year on year the economy will have shrunk.
What excuse will they trot out next?
Its a bit like the bloke telling you the cheque's in the post. You here a new excuse every time but somehow the cheque never arrives.
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shelling @ 307
Give me one good reason to stay - and I'll consider it!
Mmmm, let me see ...
- cricket
- driving on the left
- the changing of the seasons
- quality costume drama
- ale at room temperature
- eccentric and diverse people
You know, that sort of thing.
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#321 shelling
Yeah, what was I thinking?
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robin @ 311
Where in the newlabour manifesto was the commmitment to trash the currency over 30% against the dollar, Swiss Franc and Euro?
I'm sure that one was there if you looked hard enough.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#298
I regret to say that I did not. What was the gist of his argument?
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#324
Yes sweeping away the old brown leaves of autumn, and looking feverishly for the green young shoots of a new story.
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330 T'Uga Mawilli
I already own a substantial share in most banks - thanks to my position as a British taxpayer.
If I win big on my 50p bet that Nick is, as we speak interviewing Mandelson, I'll put the winnings into my pension to prop up the effect of Gordon's tax raid on it.
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tuga @ 319
You do, however, want them to challenge conservative political views. Would that be all conservative views, or just some?
Just the ones that are driven by ignorance and prejudice, I suppose, if I'm honest - so maybe only about 90 pc or so. Hey, I hope you're not thinking I'm one of those nasty, intolerant sorts.
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Nick,
I see that in respect of the immigration debate some people are beginning to realise that if there are to be limits on immigartion then there ought to be limits on emigration. The people fleeing the country are the very ones who have caused many of the problems.
The young of this country have been sold down the river since the end of WWII. They have been left with huge debts to pay off, debts which have been run up by their elders.
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Chairman Gavin Davies (later Labour adviser)
Chairman Sir Michael Lyons (previously Labour council chief)
Director General John Birt (later Labour adviser)
Director General Greg Dyke (previously Labour donor and candidate)
C.O.O Caroline Thomson (previously Roy Jenkin's aide)
Head of Political Research Bill Bush (later Labour spin doctor)
Deputy Head of Political Research Catherine Rimmer (later Labour spin doctor)
Director of Strategy Ed Richards (later Labour spin doctor)
Head of Corporate Planning James Purnell (now Labour Minister)
Head of Northern Ireland News Tom Kelly (later Labour spin doctor)
Scottish News Editor Tim Luckhurst (previously Labour spin doctor)
Political News Editor Joy Johnson (later Labour spin doctor)
Political Editor Andrew Marr (student Labour organiser)
Home News Editor Celia Barlow (now Labour MP)
Head of European Affairs Chris Bryant (now Labour MP)
Newsnight Producer Phil Woolas (now Labour Minister)
Foreign Correspondent Martin Sixsmith (later Labour spin doctor)
Current Affairs Reporter Ben Bradshaw (now Labour Minister)
Current Affairs Reporter Lance Price (later Labour spin doctor)
"Question Time" Editor Gill Penlington (previously Labour researcher)
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123. At 11:04am on 24 Oct 2008, A.Williams wrote:
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#328 bluedefence
Obviously our parallel universes have conicded long enough for you to get in here.
I really don't know where to start on such a bigoted rant. We're all entitled to be partisan but you, sir, abuse the privilege.
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#325 glanafon
Thank you for your comment. I have previously been lambasted by some on this blog for wanting a better life then I have here.
The irony is that our present salaries cannot withstand any further taxation (which is on the cards) and if the outlook was more promising, we would probably stay put. This is purely an economic decision because we don't want to end up losing our house and on benefits.
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Buddhism has been described as Hinduism stripped for export, and there's a bunch of cultural and social stuff rolled up in there as well. It was a narrative handwave for brevity.
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As an attempt to suggest there is no BBC bias this is pathetic. Total rubbish.
The BBC fear of Mandelson and Campbell is obvious. What have they got on you?
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#331 CEH
"I tend to think the British argue too much and are a bit insular. Sharper rules and more politeness would help but people can't stop kicking off when you press the issue."
Having been to the States, I can't see the americans putting up with what we put up with over here. The americans are far more demanding than we are - and quite an insular race too. If we don't kick up about the things we don't like, even less will be done than it is now. I think it's called Catch 22.
Some of us are polite, Charles, you've obviously not been mixing in the right circles.
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#335
Yes, but it was as a corollary, not an actual policy.
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@ 274.
Saga,
A do take your point and I agree that the BBC should challenge rather than simply reflect public opinion, therefore it is a shame that the BBC will not adequately challenge the labour government about anything.
They have become something that nearly resembles a labour party election broadcast.
For example, the BBC should and could have examined the evidence that labour were presenting in favour of war in Iraq. Independent blogs run on pocket change did that and came to the conclusion before the invasion that Blair was lying to promote that war. It was obvious to anyone who examined the full data available at the time that Blair was either lying or delusional and ignoring mounds of available evidence that pointed to Saddam's complicity in destroying Iraq's WMD during the 1990's.
The former UN Chief Arms Inspector, Scott Ritter, denounced Blair and told the truth about Saddam's WMD capability at the time. EVERYTHING Scott stated at the time has been proven correct. Why did not the BBC question Blair about these claims with any vigour? Why not hound him since? Blair also lied about his involvement in Bernie Ecclestone's donation and the role that played in the subsequent cigarette advertising U turn, If you really want to look for sleaze, new labour are full of it at a far far greater level then a mere trifling 2000 pounds in a brown envelope to a junior minister to ask a few questions in the commons. A million quid to buy a U-turn in health policy blows cash for questions out of the water in scale and effect.
Labour blatantly sold policies and awards to the highest bidders. Where was the BBC? Defending labour in constantly highlighting a fact that no crime had been PROVEN in court. We know the crime had been committed, just because it was not heard in court does not mean it was not a crime. There are many many crimes committed in this country that the CPS choose NOT to pursue for a variety of reasons. That does not mean that these crimes have not been committed.
Yet when a Conservative shadow minister does NOTHING wrong at all, as the BBC did admit, they still continued to jump on him like a ton of bricks!
Of course the BBC is right to question conservative opinion. BUT it should also apply the same vigour to liberal and labour belief too and it does not.
IN fact to raise a matter of NON wrong doing to the level it did this week, it strayed into becoming a labour propaganda mouthpiece and NOT an impartial reporter of events.
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Nick you did NOT appear to be so Labour bias when you worked for ITN ??
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#333 sagamix
- cricket
- driving on the left
- the changing of the seasons
- quality costume drama
- ale at room temperature
- eccentric and diverse people
Erm...I can happily live without all of the above in exchange for a better quality of life. If I really needed to watch sport (not cricket) and quality costume drama - I'd invest in a Slingbox!
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Could the Conservative party have come up with a better graphic than the one on the front page of the BBC website today?
Shameful bias towards the Government ignoring the recession
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I must admit, I increasingly despair over the BBC's political bias, Nick.
There seems to be collective glee whenever a story potentially embarrassing to the Tories arises and a greater reluctance to jump on it when a story negative to Labour surfaces.
You can call it Tory paranoia if you like, Nick, but what about that book by the bloke who felt like he was the only Tory supporter when working for the BBC - was that all imagined?
What about Jane Garvey revealing the champagne bottles strewn around TV studio on May 2, 1997?
I really think it's subliminal rather than conscious - but that doesn't excuse it.
It's a cultural reality that by definition most of your staff are small 'l' liberal arts graduates - and, therefore, less likely to be predisposed to the Tories than Labour.
I know from my own experience as a journalism graduate that, when we had an election night party in '97, I was one of only two of my colleagues out of 20+ supporting the Tories.
I work as a sports sub-editor now, so my politics play no part in my job. But, I'd like to think that if they did, and if I worked for an organisation bound by the need for political neutrality, I'd never betray them. But too many of your colleagues do.
Let me give you a trivial but commonplace example - radio news scripts regularly reveal a Tory policy announcement thus: 'The government today denounced Tory plans for...'
By all means carry government criticism of policy announcements but the intro for the story should always be the announcement, not the criticism of it - unless and until the average listener can reasonably be expected to be aware of the policy itself.
I honestly don't hear the equivalent Tory spin leading reports of government announcements nearly as frequently, if ever, as the other way around and it betrays, consciously or not, the script writer's personal prejudices.
That's just one example - I could give more.
I feel that, fine journalist though you are, as someone with former Tory party links you're sometimes guilty of over-compensating and, in effect, going native at the BBC.
I'll give you one example from your recent Panorama programme on Cameron meeting floating voters.
Your sign off, when he shook hands after leaving the small businessman was along the lines of 'the Tory leader's smile suggests he thinks he's sealed the deal' (i.e. won the chap over).
Later on - as you must have known when you did the commentary on the original footage - that man revealed he was still sceptical about voting Tory.
This made the Tory leader appear complacent, arrogant and self-satisfied - all because you chose to infer what he was thinking from his smile, which, unless you're a mind reader, was impossible to know.
To me, that was sloppy and unfair.
Lest this appear like a diatribe against the BBC - I haven't even mentioned Jim Naughtie's 'we' or 'us' reference to Labour - I would like to single out one man for praise, although I'm sure he's not alone.
Simon Mayo, I seem to recall, was at a New Labour fund-raising bash years ago (I think it was back in his Radio One DJ days, so it wasn't an issue), yet I have never once been able to detect his personal political views on Five Live. He is scrupulously fair to politicians of all parties.
He should be the example more at the BBC should follow.
I hope you take this in the spirited, constructive manner it's intended.
Cheers.
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Lets face it who has time to spend all day blogging or making calls to the BBC ?
Anyone currently unemployed or on a short week due to the economic downturn possibly? Doesn't make them Tories.
Maybe Nick is away investigating Mandelsons role in the Ingosstrakh saga.
Gordon Brown is the master political strategist, he knows the dirt and is using it to get Lord Sleaze to dance to his tune.
Personally I don't care which party gets elected in England. The Tories are non entities up here but I am dissappointed at the unbalanced reporting by this supposed independent broadcaster. The SNP suffered from this type of bias for years.
It's a shame to flush away years of hard work by many notable journalists who tried their best to remain impartial and even handed. Once a reputation has been muddied it may neve recover
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#227 mandybroon
backtracking a bit but it is ironic the Guardian is one of the few places to target Rothschild and Mandelson more than Osborne.
Perhaps they dislike Mandy more than we do?
Me thinks that this is the real story and that Mandy may yet come a cropper.
Good take on this by Portillo and Abbott on This Week last night - balanced and fair
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266. mikepko
Is it true that the BBC Politics Unit is taking over editorship of the Socialist Worker?
Hmmm. Seems more like the Socialist Workers editors are taking over the BBC
Politics Unit & Business Units
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For attention of all those claiming the BBC is not impartial:
It is a legal requirement for the BBC to be impartial.
If, as a license-fee payer (or political party), you think that the BBC Trust is failing in its duty to uphold this, why not take them to court? It's all very well throwing allegations about, but if a court of law were to agree with you, than I would be inclined to as well.
Put up or shut up.
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I know, let's see how far we can get off topic and still get posted.
I notice that in the US polling has already started in some states.
This suggest that these voters have mad their minds up weeks ago, since there is still 2 weeks of campaigning to go.
Or, it may take them that long to find their way to the polling station without a car.
Or it may be that the vote counters need that length of time to ensure a healthy portion of the vote for their favoured candidate.
Apparently the votes are going to stay uncounted until Nov 4, then they'll probably get miscounted or lost, according to who's winning.
It's not clear what, if any, facility exists for those people who might want to change their mind after voting.
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A valid storyline that is in the offing though surely, is one that suggests the Tory leadership has been complacement, and cites Osborne, Cameron's usefless flirting with a 'bipartisan' approach to the financial crisis, and a subsequent lack of agressive opposition. A small voice chorusing raise taxes, along with the Liberals, and how about a penny off national insurance do not quite cut mustard. Now the government is making the running on immigration. The Tory press appears accordingly slightly restive. Is Cameron quite up to a speaking part in this particular drama?
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
281. sagamix wrote:
"Fair enough, I agree. The story ran for less than a week and Osborne survives - badly (but not yet fatally) damaged by the glimpse afforded to us of how he remains, at heart, an immature and totally out of touch Eton schoolboy".
Get your facts right saga...Osborne did NOT go to Eton!
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re: 164 Billmcfadden
Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not a member of any political organisation at all.
I'm simply very very annoyed at how labour have destroyed our economy/freedoms.
Despite what labour/BBC would have you believe, I think that most people who are voicing annoyance about labour (or about bbc bias) are not tories; most of them are simply people who know when they're being taken for a ride and they want it to stop.
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Disgusted Dorothy,
OMG that is disgraceful that the Labour shower run the BBC. Well done for that research.
Note the absence of Nick Robinson wrongly berated for his pro Labour bias.
He is on our side remember!
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Re: BBC Bias towards Labour:
I think Stephanie Flanders (daughter of the late Donald Flanders), is Labour activated is she not?
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@342
Perhaps you should add : Nick Robinson, President of Oxford University Conservative Association.
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#352
It's been changed now.
Click on the "downturn" button to see!
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312., jonathan_cook
"I'll bet 50p that the reason that Nick is so quiet is that he is at this very moment conducting an in-depth and through interview with Mandelson over the Guardian allegations".
I'll bet the National Debt neither Nick nor anyone else this side of the pearly gates COULD conduct an "in-depth and thorough
interview with Mandelson" He is far too slippery for that..
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#336
I knew that wouldn't get through!
T'uga Mawilli (Geddit! He's saying that he's a... whoops! Sorry moderators!) veers wildly off the topic being discussed continuously and yet I'm moderated because my post was mildly offensive (Tee hee!)
Got some friends at the Beeb, T'uga?
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Charles says
I don't like Britain and barely tolerate its people. The country I knew is dead
So, Charles, why do you still live here then? You've had 11 years of your Labour boys and still you find yourself with a profound dislike of your country and its people. Does this not tell you something about what Labour have been doing for 11 years? Oh, wait, that's right, I forgot, this is all the Tories fault for opposing what Tony wanted to do, I mean it must have been so difficult passing legislation with a majority of over 100 MPs!
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bluedefence writes
Lets face it who has time to spend all day blogging or making calls to the BBC ?
Well, clearly you do, bluedefence!
They also write
The BBC has battered Labour relentlessly for the last decade
I'm sorry, it took me a while to stop laughing after I read that one. I take it by BBC you mean Bolivian Broadcasting Corporation, because otherwise you clearly have not been watching the same programmes as the rest of us.
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You've pretty much proven the point I was making. You can't see it because you're too close to it, and your comment is actually falling further down that hole.
If you want more proof take a look at the herd of cats resisting common and better standards in education, or the routine attitude a lot of people have at a social level.
Personally, I have my doubts about whether Britain can or will change. People say they want it but, really, they're just screaming because they've been knocked out of their comfort zone.
Choose wisely, etcetera.
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Charles wrote
It was a narrative handwave for brevity
Come on Charles, it was either a fib or a mistake. I think you've spent too long listening to Mandelson, who's office, when questioned about the difference between the truth of his meetings with Russian billionaires, and his statements about those meetings, said something like "meetings with Deripaska have been detailed before and we're not in the business of providing daily updates".
In other words, ah yes we've been caught being inaccurate with the truth, best refuse to say anything else and hope it goes away.
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328 bluedefence
"well healed... it hardly matters if a few pensioners freeze to death in the coming months"
You do seem to be confused here. It was reported this week that it is estimated that 20,000 pensioners could freeze to death this winter. (Though the BBC probably didn't mention this as it was not "government friendly".)
This is happening NOW, and the Tories are not actually in power - this is the result of the current New Labour government. This somewhat fundamental point appears to have passed you by.
As for being well healed - Peter Mandelson has done well for himself with recently. His colleagues are also busy lining their pockets before their gravy train is voted to a halt. Was it £1 million in EU payoffs and House of Lords salarys ?
Would 20,000 pensioners freezing to death matter to him, Gordon Brown or any of the other government ministers? Not enough for them to actually do something about it while there is still time it would appear.
This is Brown's Britain.
I would worry less about what a different future government might do, and more about what the current government are doing now.
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#357.
I refer you to #342.
And it's called freedom of speech.
Or are you against that as well?
It's not the first time that the BBC has been brought into question either.
I suggest you look up the Balen report.
Which incidentally, the BBC suppressed and it's not available under FOIA.
Wonder why?
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solpugid writes
the government is making the running on immigration
to suggest that the Tories may be in some sort of crisis.
What you mean solpugid, is that the government has finally started to say what most people have been saying for years, only every time we did we got accused of being racists by . . . the government!
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342
Fantastic List
You forgot Robert Preston - the son of economist and later Labour peer Maurice Peston, Baron Peston of Mile End
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I have just read an article by Fraser Nelson, which states that Gordon Brown has completely wiped Northern Rock off the Government's books.
There is a new official figure called "National Debt excluding Northern Rock" (codeHF6W) which now tells us that in one fell swoop, he's managed to cook up a scheme which reduces debt from 43% to 37% of GDP.
How's that for massaging the figures?
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#359 solpugid
Interesting take on government attitude towards immigration, and their taking the lead.
I don't think that putting a theoretical cap some 10 million above the current level, then denying it, and then not being sure how to achieve it can be constrfued as taking the lead or making the running.
Seems to me more like confusion, followed by obfuscation. That's the preferred approach to any subject for this government.
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333 Sagamix
You sound very john Major there ;-)
Back to Basics - Round 2!
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#357 balamu
If, as a license-fee payer (or political party), you think that the BBC Trust is failing in its duty to uphold this, why not take them to court? It's all very well throwing allegations about, but if a court of law were to agree with you, than I would be inclined to as well.
We are all entitled to our opinions and as license payers, we should be able to question the BBC's motives without being prejudicial. If you listen to some of the reports where factual inormation is lacking, most of the dialogue is based upon pure supposition. This isn't just the BBC, it's the other channels too.
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#368
Ooh, I never stray off subject. I've been very careful to suggest alternative topics that Nick might want to consider for his thread.
And I'm never abusive, except to people I don't agree with.
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#374 Phaeton,
Why no legal action?
* There seems to be a significant body of opinion (at least on here) that the BBC is blatently biased towards the Labour party
* I'm sure the BBC's competitors would be keen to finance a legal action if it had a chance of succeeding, as well us those who wish to silence news sources without an in-built right-wing bias
Why not take it?
The BBC Trust has a legal duty to uphold impartiality. Therefore, if there is an explicit New Labour bias (as many on here assert) you should take them to court.
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#374 Phaeton,
Why no legal action?
* There seems to be a significant body of opinion (at least on here) that the BBC is blatently biased towards the Labour party
* I'm sure the BBC's competitors would be keen to finance a legal action if it had a chance of succeeding, as well us those who wish to silence news sources without an in-built right-wing bias
Why not go for it?
The BBC Trust has a legal duty to uphold impartiality. Therefore, if there is an explicit New Labour bias (as many on here assert) you should take them to court. If you are to be believed, it is a no-brainer - you would certainly win!
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Ooooops.
The Labour Whips forgot to get the rest of Europe on-side and ready to chirrup in chorus:
"It was Gordon Brown who has rescued the entire world and his actions as Chancellor have had no impact on this GLOBAL problem"
The reality behind the spin
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I'm awaiting moderation for mentioning who Robert Prestons dad is!!
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Flamepatricia, thanks for the kind words but they actually belong to another blogger, I am too lazy a blogger to research the BBC.
I merely get annoyed by them!
However, I can add another to the list Ms Wark .
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and now I've been unmoderated.
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#371 CEH
If you want more proof take a look at the herd of cats resisting common and better standards in education, or the routine attitude a lot of people have at a social level.
I have never had any objection to better standards in education, as long as that is the end result. This government have regularly thrown money at this but I can't see any noticeable or better changes. Look at what happened with the SATS results.
The only point I would add, is that our friend is an Assistand Head of a local school, and a teacher of some 36 years. She says the constraints introduced by this government have made the education sytem in this country a lot worse, not better.
If the government were to just let the teachers do their job without interfering behing the scenes, things might even improve.
Most of us here are not a herd of cats. We do want to see improvement but this has to be done in a structured and well-thought-out way and that is something which obviously eludes the present government.
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Well son of a gun, I was wrong.
This thread is going to make 500, mind you its not edifying, and it's only because there's no alternative.
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Here Nick, talk about not having agenda making put under pressure, what do you make of the story in Stoke?
They had a Mayor and Chief Executive who made all the decisions, a bit like our lovely Government, but were told by the government that they couldn't have that, and had to have either a leader and cabinet, or a mayor and cabinet. Seemingly the prime thing here was cabinet.
Duly chastened, the good citizens have voted for a leader and cabinet.
Have we got a cabinet? Have we got a leader? Is anybody actually doing anything? If so, what?
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378
Well I didn't use the word 'lead', nor did I want to claim they were doing it well. I doubt they will. By making the running I wanted to imply that the government is conspicuous today, this week, in a Tory heart-n-soul area, in the context of the other couple of points I make.. Not, if I may, in an actual 'crisis' as has been mentioned elsewhere.
If I might have put this one point (of several) rather more exactly, in support of a view that we may be entering a time of Tory dissatisfation with their leadership, then I acknowledge that. But that is the suggestion I make.
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371 Charlie Hardwidge
The trouble with this country is thats its full of lame ducks who just don't see what is happening. You hide behind your Zen Buddist fairy tale dreams and cannot see what is happening.
This Government is dragging the UK down and down by high taxes silly spin talk and not willing to hear us cry out for help.
You are right about Britian not being able to change because while we have idots like Brown and Co doing what they like and people like you supporting them we have no hope. People are not screaming because of being knocked out of a comfort zone they have never been in one while Blair and Brown have been taxing the ones who have worked hard and given lazy idle idots everything for nothing.
Shut the door now but get ride of dreamers like you first.
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To balhamu re;357
"It is a legal requirement for the BBC to be impartial.If, as a license-fee payer (or political party), you think that the BBC Trust is failing in its duty to uphold this, why not take them to court? It's all very well throwing allegations about, but if a court of law were to agree with you, than I would be inclined to as well.
Put up or shut up.
Oh! And that is reasonable isn't it!
The BBC can afford the best barristers, Where am I supposed to get the money to launch a court case.It won't be legal aided will it. I can't afford even to go on holiday
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#380 shelling
Granted, you can express your view.
But if what you are saying is true (the BBC's editorial line is dictated by the Government or by those sympathetic to it), and hostile to the Opposition, it is a clear breach of the BBC's legal duty to be impartial.
Complaining about it to the BBC would be unlikely to stop it.
A court case would force reform when it inevitably finds in your favour.
Why not do it? I'm sure you could find a sponser for this (Sky, ITV and other commercial broadcasters would have an interest, as would local radio, as would commercial internet news sites, as would the Conservative Party etc).
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Balhamu
You use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post, for support and not for illumination:
The point was not if crime is up or down, but that you just cant trust government figures.
John Snow summed up well last night when he said... having had minister after minister claim that knife crime was down, it turns out that in fact it isnt and that the actual incidents have been growing in seriousness.
It also turns out that knife homicide are not included.
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Hey who complained about my Non job of the week.
One yous gone and applied for it havent you........ come on fess up....
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#342 DisgustedDorothy:
.....list of people connected with the BBC....
Yes, it's interesting that a lot of the brightest people at the Beeb are supporters of Labour/the Government, isn't it? In the same way that almost all scientists and other bright sparks are atheists, I suppose.
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365. Yes, that is great. Nick is on our side but has be very covert of course. Listen very carefully, I shall say zis only once......
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Shouting about the BBC being biased is like writing to the Telegraph and claiming they are right wing. They are a public sector organisation. They know which side their bread is buttered.
The BBC being left wing is sort of up there with: is the Pope a Catholic and do bears dodo in the woods.
Any how; is there any news today?
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I'm posting this in the interests of getting the post count up to and over 500, so Nick can believe his stance has been correct.
Self belief is but a step on the path to self knowledge, and self improvement. Even if only one person is on your side, provided the one person is you, you're OK. If not, boy are you in trouble.
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Sorry, Nick. Your argument just doesn't wash.
Consider 342 ... your reluctance to take on issues Labour doesn't want aired is now even more obvious.
Remember Dr David Kelly. A brave man but even he couldn't stand up to these vicious Labour reptiles when they scent blood.
Like Komodo dragons, they have poison in their mouths.
People who think this political chicanery is a good soap opera should remember that it kills.
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More Shameful Left Wing Bias
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The BBC are now up to speed with the Guardian allegations:
Surely we are now only moments away from a Nick Robinson led press scrum questioning Mandelson in detail on this?
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jcook @ 379
You sound very John Major there
Mmmm, except I missed out "milk maids cycling slowly to church in the gathering dusk".
Reason I missed that out is because I don't like the sound of it - something a little offputting there, don't you think?
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#381
Hmm. Do you actually read what you write?
The way I see it George Osbourne has been hoist by his own petard! Even the Telegraph called him a twerp and what about what Norman Tebbit said about him? It hardly inspires confidence in a man who would be David Cameron's number 2! (Pun intended!)
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Recognise anyone you avid bloggers:
http://dukenukem.typepad.com/
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Thanks Dorothy. Had often wondered about Ms Wark. MISS Stephanie Flanders is also.
By the way, the zen warbling bird which appears frequently (some say too frequently) is really called a Scott bird who hails from Phoenix. Interesting....
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375
As I hope I have sufficiently implied elsewhere, you will have to take on the gist of my argument, which is that the Tory leadership may not quite have its eye on the ball just now.
For a better and more fully articulated account of this view, today's Telegraph.
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Or this left-wing bias - the BBC is choc-a-bloc with it
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tuga @ 360
I've got you categorised as a left wing bigot
No, I'm not!
Any case, "left wing bigot" is an oxywhat'shisface - a contradiction in terms, that's it. See how it's obvious I'm a member of the progressive elite, using fancy phrases like "contradiction in terms"?
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224ilicpolero
Why would you imagine that I would be concerned that you think
"that of all the Labour party supporters here you are by a considerable distance the most partisan?"
Why would you think that I care what you think,when I come onto these blogs I come on here with my own thoughts and opinions, unlike most of the conservatives that answer the call and try to convince everyone that they believe everything they say when quite often its Tory reheteric. you Tories have guys /girls on here that repeat the same thing over and over again hoping that someone will take them seriously its not very difficult to pick them out just look for the manic remarks. the only people that appear to believe them are the usual[and this week the not so usual] Tory rent a blogger's that come out when the Tory drum is beaten.
"At what point and how awful need things be under Gordon Brown for you to wake up and smell the coffee? "
I guess that would be,when they get as bad as they were under Thatcher or Major.
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tag @ 337
I regret to say that I did not. What was the gist of his argument?
That the current US/UK approach is not working and that there is no conceivable end in sight. He recommended talking power sharing to the Taliban, rather than fighting them - something along the lines of how we eventually resolved the Irish problem.
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#395 Carrots,
Yes, you are right.
Who cares what is happening re crime rates (or anything else) - it is unimportant.
What is important is perception. People don't trust the figures. So let's just assume they are really bad.
To see this in action, see the amount of time and money that is going to be wasted by the new Mayor London on a replacement routemaster because of a perception that they kill and seriously injure cyclists (0 deaths and 4 major collisions in the 3 years since their introduction).
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Iwouldn`t care less how biased the BBC are which they certainly are together with complete arrogance and indifference to their license payers,if I could watch TV without having to pay the license fee.I am free to buy any newspaper I wish to without having to pay a print levy.BBC should be pay to view,
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Well, that's a perspective but you have to accept that teachers and other vested interests are as much part of the problem and/or solution as anyone else. There's similar issues with healthcare and policing.
The big problem with Britain is too many people want to do their own thing and lack a sense of context. This tends to splinter effort and drive standards down. I suspect, your teacher friend is more motivated by a percieved loss of status and breakdown of consensus than he'd care to admit.
The root problem with Britain is every wiseguy wants to be 'different' and it's always someone else's fault. But, it's very cottage industry and not very compatible with a more connected world. That's why standards and a sense of context are important and, perhaps, the key challenge both government, professions, and society in general needs to grasp.
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#393 notsosilentmajority
Maybe you can get legal aid?
And I'm sure the Conservative Party will lend their support (will help build a case for privatisation from an ideological perspective, and also make the media less willing to challenge their views).
Others with right-wing views (Daily Mail, Daily Telegraph, individuals e.g. Michael Ashcroft) would also like to chip in I'm sure.
And commercial broadcasters (TV and radio), commercial news websites and many others will be interested in supporting this cause (less competition from a state subsidised firm).
You could get donations from the 'silent majority' who would be on your side (you could be the 'BBC martyr').
You stand a good chance of getting funding. It just requires the time and energy to actually do something.
ALTERNATIVELY
Maybe you should push Cameron to bring forward plans to privatise the BBC?
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grawth @ 327
So you think the BBC should reflect the will of a minority of the country rather than the majority simply because you think they know better?
Yes, I suppose I do. I know it's not what one is meant to say, but I find the public a bit dodgy in many respects so I'd be nervous about having a BBC which reflected prevailing attitudes. I'd rather they sought the higher ground.
Impartial reporting is impossible in any event, don't you think? Everything is shot through with bias of one sort or another. There's that scientific theory (forget which one) which even says that, just by observing something, you change its nature - no idea how they came up with that but I reckon it's right.
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229 caroliont,
"However please Nick get it into perspective, George has behaved like an idiot but he at least did not sell honours for cash like new Labour was accused of. And which still sticks to the party ..."
Am I missing something here
"but he at least did not sell honours for cash like new Labour was accused of"
There is absolutely no evidence that any honours were sold for cash by the labour party , if you want cash for honours look at Lord Ashcroft and Lord Conrad Black. to compare Osbourne's misdeeds with the non existent Labour cash for honours is absurd.
Osbourne has admitted to touting for a donation and is probably thanking his lucky stars that he didn't get one, otherwise he'd be gone.
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Where are you, Nick. Have the BBC got you locked in a padded room with Robert Peston?
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shelling @ 351
I can happily live without all of the above in exchange for a better quality of life
Okay, well good luck then! - but I bet you end up missing Old Blighty.
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I cannot judge if Kirsty Work is really pro-Nu Labour. Her voice is so grating and coarse that I cannot understand a word she says. Also, one can never tell in what direction she is looking as one eye appears to view the right, whilst the other is fixed on the left. So, perhaps after all she is not biased!
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#394 balhamu
A court case would force reform when it inevitably finds in your favour.
Why not do it? I'm sure you could find a sponser for this (Sky, ITV and other commercial broadcasters would have an interest, as would local radio, as would commercial internet news sites, as would the Conservative Party etc).
Can't afford it, mate. I've got fuel bills to look forward to this winter.
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williams @ 329
MiniTruth (formerly BBC News) recommend that all further discussions on MiniTruth bias towards the Party, our Glorious Leader, GB, and his faithfully Inner Party Member, Peter O'Brian Mandelson, be continued on the Minilove website
Hang on, think I recognise that! - is that from Nineteen Eighty Four? ... you know, the novel by George Orwell?
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pharbitis 401
Perhaps Nick will end up like David Kelly if he ask's the wrong questions.
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What a surprise that Mandelson's misleading statement hasn't had the same profile and prominence on the BBC website front page or 'Have Your Say' page as the BBC's story regarding Osborne.
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silent @ 361
Get your facts right saga...Osborne did NOT go to Eton!
Come on, let's be fair - I said that he remained, at heart, a totally out of touch and immature Eton schoolboy. Not actually saying that he actually went to the actual Eton.
St Pauls followed by Oxford and the Bullingdon Club, wasn't it?
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Can we not please start a new blog Nick, surely the recession and the fact that boom and bust has not been abolished is reason enough. In the meantime sterling collapses, the stock market is a bloodbath, the army is riddled with criminals and drug addicts, de Menoza inquiry continues, the Bloody Sunday report still not published etc..
In the meantime Britain will pull through says Darling, can we have a date, because you Darling will not be around when we do. In the meantime you were right to say that we are pretty 'pissed off' with you. I can only beg the people of Glenrothes to give this government such a kicking, please, think of Britain, kick out labour. When can we expect Gordon to visit to press the flesh and say about the Global Economic Crisis.
America is going into itself again, it will survive without the rest of the globe, it does not need anybody. They have had Twin Towers, they have tried and failed in Iraq and Afghanistan, it was always about American national interests, nobody or nothing else. Be afraid, very afraid, Project Griffin continues apace. Lock and load.
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#411 grandantidote
You said:-
you Tories have guys /girls on here that repeat the same thing over and over again hoping that someone will take them seriously its not very difficult to pick them out just look for the manic remarks.
I guess that would be,when they get as bad as they were under Thatcher or Major.
You don't think you fall into that category then?
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The sad fact is the BBC has still not recovered after the sham that was the Hutton report. It therefore is never going to hold ZaNu Labour to account in any format. The tough questions get asked by the few good journalists - Paxman, and gawd bless her Raworth - but the rest are too worried for their jobs/so blinded by Westminster spin they fail to stand up straight. I'm sure Nick will be back with some more information on something the tories are to blame for, or to suggest Cameron is not ready for government - as he did the other week, as if Brown has ever been ready!! Whilst the house burns to the ground, dear old Nick will be wondering if the curtains are nice!
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395~ Carrots
As I understand they were actually the figures of individual Police Forces being CORRECTED by the Government.
And furtermore correcting the figures UPWARDS.
So hardly massaging statistics in such a way as to give a positive spin, quite the opposite infact.
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Now this is interesting
balhamu, sagamix and charlie account for 17.8 percent of the comments on this blog.
Have you guys thought about starting your own forum?
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Just curious but how many on here are full time bloggers???
Personaly I work (at the potato council with gold plated pension rites) so can only get on occasional lunchtimes or when all the Maris Pipers are accounted for.
Many, Many on here, often complaining about Quangos, Waste, Tax to high eyc etc are on all day and night so are clearly not that economically productive. Perhaps all retired of course although occasionally people have let slip an approximate age that indicates otherwise.
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re 402
You post a link to the Mandelson story as evidence that the BBC is not biased.
Well, I accept the story is there, but its a matter of the prominence attached to the story.
For literally days, there was a permanent reference to the Osborne story on the front page of the BBC website, listing it in the top 3 stories.
This particular Mandelson story, with seemingly concrete evidence that his officials omitted certain aspects of the truth from an investigation doesn't even warrant listing in the top 6 news stories at 5:30, and it was only posted at 3:06. Did it ever make the front section? I doubt it.
So, Osborne does nothing wrong and is front page news for days. Mandelson is caught not giving the full facts (and that's being kind) to an EU investigation into how a russian billionaire trousered huge amounts of cash from an Eu decision, and that barely even causes a stir.
That's why people say the Beeb is biased.
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Nick,
You refer Stephen Glover to the blog written by the BBC's head of news at Westminster.
May I refer you to the overwhelming response given to Steve Mawhinney's unconvincing explanation by viewers in the comment section?
Do you not concede the possibility that on this occasion, the BBC got the balance and tone very wrong? The viewers who pay the licence fee seem to think so.
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So Charles,
according to you the problem with education is teachers, the problem with health is doctors and nurses, and the overall problem is that people like being individual.
And yet you regularly harangue us for our herd mentality.
You can't have it both ways Charles. Either you want people to be able to think for themselves, or you don't. Or maybe you just want it the New Labour way, which is that you want everyone to think for themselves, as long as they think the same way you do.
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413. balhamu
People dont trust the figues because they know the government twists them..... and I mean all governments not just labour.
Nothing to do with perception.
Ill stay clear of busses, not my subject.
But I do recall a story of a man being trapped under one and dragged for a mile.
They also take up twice the road space and many dont pay to use them as the driver cant see who gets on and off.
I doubt if its one of Londons best ideas.
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