Travelling companions
Platform 5, Birmingham New Street: Delicious. The Panorama team has just seen David Cameron on to the train home to London. Thanks to an extraordinary coincidence, the Tory leader finds himself sitting in the next door carriage to the prime minister, also on his way back from Birmingham. If either needs to pop to the gents or for a cup of tea, they may well meet halfway.
I'm 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~49~RS~)
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It would be comic if it were not so tragic. What a waste of Cabinet time.
Still, why not have the rest of Parliament convene on the 0815 to Birmingham New Street each weekday morning? The Speaker could double as ticket inspector!
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After a hard day's work telling the CBI that globalism is a completely new thing that's never happened before, that all our problems are due to the Americans (but that anything good ever anywhere is all due to himself), I hope the PM reflects on his total lack of understanding of reality and resigns before he gets off the train.
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With all the security and other staff, just how many return tickets did G.Brown have to queue for this morning.... And what was the total cost? (they weren't booked long in advance were they?)
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Surely our Prime Minister would never do anything so impulsive as to 'pop to the gents'. He would initiate a prudently controlled liquidity drawdown consistent with the golden rule, maintaining a steady hand on the organs of state. Certainly no boom or bust.
As for the other guy, we'll no doubt see the whole thing on his blog.
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The chances of these two characters 'meeting halfway' must be very low indeed.
Although the punters {thats us} should always remember these are professional politicians and as such, a lot of the 'political rage' is synthetic.
Brief encounter?
Now thats more like it.
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4,
Brilliant. Just Brilliant
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
What the Tories and their silent partners in the media want is a head to head.
They changed their minds in the last year haven't they. It used to be Tony! Tony! Tony. They couldn't get enough of Labour.
It's all about ratings but nothing to do with good leadership
That's a stroke of luck for Gordon then. Because that's what we've been getting - nothing to do with good leadership.
Frankly I'm no longer bothered how Gordon Brown fills his time. At least while he's in Birmingham he's not passing another piece of ill-thought-out legislation at Westminster. I say send them all on a cruise for the next 18 months. Complete bargain.
More to the point why is Cameron shadowing Brown although I suspect it's to cause Brown more sleepless nights until his brain finally explodes. Looks like that point has long passed to be honest.
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Oh, and there'll be no hope of the two of them meeting on the way to the bathroom unless Cameron goes in to Brown's carriage to tease him. We could end up with a John Prescott moment. Mind you, with Brown's depth perception all shot he might swing and miss and catch Hazel Blears one.
A man can dream.
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If the Prime Minister has any sense he'll continue to be humble,
He does have much to be humble about.
and eschew competition and media favours.
Or avoid looking a complete arse as others might put it. Like his run away and hide tactic any time a genuine interview presents itself.
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Oooo this sounds quite exciting! ... Gordon wants to punch Dave right in the middle of that large, round, cherubic face, doesn't he? ... yeah, you can just tell he does, and maybe a train corridor is the perfect place to land one!
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If they get off at the same time, what a wonderful photo opportunity! Gordon's chronic hand gesticulations and cheesy grins will be in full swing.
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I can't see Boxing. Look what happened the last time he played a man's game.
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Can I suggest that the next Nu-Laba cabinet meeting is held in Ulan-Bator.
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I'm not paying much attention to Nick's blog or the newspapers anymore. Folks know what I think, and I'm not going stick around just to moan, so I doubt you'll see much of me after today. I just figure my time will be better spent on something else.
If the Tory shadow Home Secretary offered to pay my relocation and resettlement costs it would be tempting to vote Tory and bale out of Britain the day they got into power, but I'm not that selfish. I'll leave it to other folks to value graft over virtue.
Piers Morgan is the face of modern Britain. He's living a well paid lie in Hollywood while doing nothing for poor folks other than give them crumbs to fight over. It's things like that that made me quit watching TV and get a life. It's too short not to.
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mrcynict4 @14,
Or in Haiti. During hurricane season.
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I'd like to see Brown and Cameron in a highly choreographed fight scene on top of the train. It would end with Brown giving up and just standing there doing nothing until he forgets to duck for the bridge.
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The more time this lot spend on a train the happier I am.
Nick, bung the driver some licence fee and ask him to go around again.
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Or better still get him to enter CERNs particle accelerator and Ill get the tech guys to bend time so we never hear from them again.
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13. MaxSceptic
Hey Max, youre not Cherie Blair by any chance are you?
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There's an ancient Chinese story about a young man called Han Xin who had a reputation as a skilled Kung-fu fighter. One day when Han was walking through the streets of his city, he was stopped by two men who had heard of this skill. The pair challenged him to a fight to the death. Han tried to decline the challenge, but the men would not let him walk away. They insisted he must either fight or crawl like a dog through the leader's outstretched legs. Although to the Chinese this is an unspeakable humiliation, Han Xin chose to crawl rather than fight.
Word of his humiliation and cowardice spread quickly through the city. He was laughed at openly, yet he never once offered any excuse or explanation for his seemingly spineless action. Later in his life, he revealed himself to be one of the most formidable and fearless warriors in the history of China. To him, the pair of unschooled ruffians had posed no threat. It was simply that they were unworthy adversaries. In his heart he knew himself to be a fearless warrior. He did not care what anyone else thought. Han's thick face was a meek and cowardly facade, adopted to save himself the bother of killing two such inconsequential hoodlums.
Thick Face, Black Heart -- Chin-Ning Chu
There's a modern equivalent by Dave Roger's in his Attention Deficit Nation essay on Groundhog Day.
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15. Charles_E_Hardwidge
Charles No No No Please dont go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKITQ4qhXII
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An Ode to Chuck upon his departure from this blog:
Can you not stay, just for one more day
Until the fall of Brown, and then
No matter how far you go, you'll know
That you've left us codswallop zen.
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CarrotsneedaQUANGO2 @20,
No - LOL - I loath her more than all the other so-called Blair Babes!
But Cherie and I do have a common hatred of her erstwhile next-door neighbour.
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Are they both in First Class or has Brown opted for standard in these economically sensitive times? More importantly, is the BBC in First Class?
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There's an ancient Chinese story about a young man called Han Xin who had a reputation as a skilled Kung-fu fighter..........
.....In his heart he knew himself to be a fearless warrior. He did not care what anyone else thought. Han's thick face was a meek and cowardly facade, adopted to save himself the bother of killing two such inconsequential hoodlums.
Thick Face, Black Heart -- Chin-Ning Chu
S'cuse me? Ninja Brown doesn't bother to explain himself to the electorate because we are all mental pygmies? Yeah, that'll work. We're going to respect him for that.
It was this arrogance that first turned me against him in 2001. Prior to that I was enjoying the humiliation of the Tories as much as any man. The turning point came prior to the 2001 election when the Tories had somehow got wind he was going to increase National Insurance. He was challenged any number of times by reporters and I remember his disingenuous reply to this day. It was 'I won't answer that because then you'll just ask me a question about any of the other 200 taxes I could vary'. This to Paxman. In an interview. What did he think he was there for?
And of course the next week after re-election they increased National Insurance. Now here is a bloke who speaks with forked tongue I thought to myself. Everything I can bear to watch of him since just drives home that impression.
To him, avoiding being honest is just a great big joke. Meanwhile borrow and squander more money. He knew exactly what he was doing and the effect this was having on house prices and the knock-on effect of his 'miracle' consumer-based economy.
Only 18 more months of this hostage crisis and we can rid shot of him and the spineless Labour MPs who keep him in power.
Good.
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12. At 6:35pm on 08 Sep 2008, toughtopperbrown wrote:
If they get off at the same time, what a wonderful photo opportunity! Gordon's chronic hand gesticulations and cheesy grins will be in full swing.
You could have phrased that better.......
or maybe it was intended :))
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re: 23
O Charles you're full of hot air
And at most of your posts I despair,
I'm tired of your zen
(Time and time again)
Thank heavens you'll be blogging elsewhere!
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If I was David Cameron I'd be seriously worried about how I was going to repair all the damage that the man in the other carriage has been doing to the country - and especially to public finances.
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29 JC
They already are, how could they not.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7603931.stm
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Charles..
If only they knew!
If only I knew for sure.
Ill have to wait to ask "Dave" if my suspicion is correct. You know the Dave I mean.
No really please don't go not sarcastically from this time.
Knowledge is power.
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Actually I might go as well.
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Thanks bloggers.
Really had a good laugh at some of the comments especially the Hazel Blears one.
I've decided not to post 'cos some of you are just too good to follow.
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dhwilkinson @32,
Don't forget to take grandauntiedolt with you.
Ciao.
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Just hope they didn't all buy sandwiches on the train, otherwise the whole Cabinet and members of the Opposition would be meeting somewhere along the aisles.... :)
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Charles has gone into the mists....
... before I could ask him if 'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance' would have been published at all in these benzene-challenged times... what a pity :)
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You wrote some good stuff. I enjoyed reading it. I wish I could say more but it would interfere with the moment. I'll let that particular bell ring itself into silence.
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It beggars belief that Gordon Brown should think that this expensive and futile gimmick would endear him to the British people. It just shows how totally out of touch are he and his cabinet puppets. The more this lot stumble on towards electoral annihilation, the more the governance and administration of the United Kingdom looks like something akin to a cartoon republic. Oh boy, how the Labour Party is going to pay for its decade or so of unmitigated political vandalism.
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Dave had his chance to mount a populist coup de etat on behalf of a grateful nation by transferring Crash Gordon onto to the Glasgow bound train at Watford Station and then carrying on to London to collect the keys to Downing Street which he shall surely get!
Instead Gordon's runaway train is still heading fast towards the buffers with the entire British nation on board.
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34 septic max,We have a decent sort of chap leaving these blogs and mainly because of clowns like you.
Just have a look through this blog if you dare, at the foul absurd and offensive posts that have been put on here in the last few hours and many compiled by you.
I said in a earlier post that you are a dispicable character as I said a ambush predator with no courage just waiting to find some flaw in anyone that passes by.
A sort of shot in the back expert, the type that contribute nothing to life but hate spitefulness and ignorance.
I think that I read somewhere today that you were going away, I hope that where ever it is its wonderful, so wonderful that you never want to return.
I am not a religious man but I hope that God will grant us that wish so that we dont have to put up with your bile anymore.
I think that your post 13 just about sums you up. I very much doubt if you ever took part in a mans game, maybe hopscotch with the girls would have been your style.
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The last two carriages have been diverted to Bournemouth. A warm welcome has been prepared Winter of discontent mark 2..
CEH thank you for you postings enjoy your life in the Karma world.
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37 perhaps a few of us should leave for pastures new you know the people I mean and then what will they do, it might be fun to watch them turning on themselve or throwing themselves of cliffs like lemmings.
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15 Charles E Hardwidge, I know that your not a man to be easily swayed but there are some of us on these blogs who really dont want you to leave.
There are others on here, who's interllect does'nt begin to approach yours that make feeble attempts to ridicule you.
They will be glad to see you go because they have not got the nous to begin to compete with you.
I know that its difficult to read some of the rubbish on here but if you leave for whatever reason they will consider that they drove you out. dont let them have that victory.
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I went angling today with some colleagues. And I got to thinking.
What type of fisherman would GB be?
What type of fisherman would any of his underlings be?
and I thought that HH would be a tutting disapproving angler's widow, Millipede a rambunctious tweener who cannot keep quiet and asks questions and tells fishermans tales non stop.
Darling would be the fisherman who gets to the swim, only to realise the person who has just vacated the spot has cut down branches and cut new swims to make it easier to catch fish........
And GB? well, GB would be the local poacher!
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re: grandantidote/ceh/dhwilkinson
I hope people like them stay around the blog. I often don't agree with some of what they say, but it's always a good thing to have someone who you don't agree with tell you the other side of the story and/or to give another viewpoint that you might not have properly thought out before.
Nobody's got all the answers, but by listening to as many different answers as you can it at least gives a bit of balance to what might otherwise just end up being a pointless spleen-venting exercise.
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40 grand (f)arti bloke
you hold a flame to the CEH? He is no decent man, he spouts bile, venemous statements, coupled with his amazing ability to draw on ways of thinking all things Zen, and runs off when he has his nose tweaked by another poster?
Both him and yourseld need a reality check, so perhaps once you have removed your Testa dal suo arse, you would be so kid as to join him in Siberia?
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grandantidote @40
No-one 'decent' could support and uphold the policies and character of Gordon Brown after his abysmal record of the past 11 years.
'Deluded', 'gullible', 'feeble-minded' - perhaps.
'Malevolent', 'ill-intentioned', 'twisted' - for sure
'Decent' - no way.
Until Brown and his team of incompetents leave government for all time you'll just put up with my 'bile' or take your reading and rambling pleasures elsewhere.
Meanwhile, as Chuck once wrote here:
"By constraining the world by your own understanding you limit potential within your own life. Nick see the world through Machivelli but there's other ways, like the Tao, Zen, and Bushido. This is not an outside or other thing, it's a personal thing. Treason? You're treasonous to yourself. Why do it? Be happy.
(Rubbish, right? And so it ever was).
Bon appetit!
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#45 getrideofgordonnow
Agree with your sentiments, although CEH is the wild card in the pack. Not sure if he is for real, or is just bent on winding us all up.
If we all agreed with the other chap it would be a mutual admiration society and very dull.
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#40 Grandantidote
Your posting hardly does you credit. It is not objective, but it an outraged response, not to a fellow blogger's comments as such, but because this person, like many on this board loathes Gordon Brown. It is your misfortune that Nu Labour hasn't retained the faith and trust many originally put into it when they voted for that party. Gordon Brown is probably the most unpopular prime minister since Neville Chamberlain and you find it hard to bear.
Your loyalty to a party, which isn't what it was in the '20s, '30s or in the '40s, when men such as Aneurin Bevan trod the political stage like giants, is admirable, but today sadly misplaced. You have become bitter and so are lashing out at bloggers who react to hard times with banter.
The Great Bard summed up the frailty of man putting his faith in kings, or political leaders. It is summed up thus:
Had I but served my God with half the zeal I served my king, he would not in mine age Have left me naked to mine enemies.
William Shakespeare (1564 - 1616)
Source: King Henry VIII, Cardinal Wolsey in Act 3, scene 2.
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37 Charles_E.. if your still here.
Very very very flattering. But maybe life is to short to bang your head against the wall, Plasterers are expensive.
Life Could be shorter than we think.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7543089.stm
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Well said Phoenixarisen. Grandantidote sees the Labour party as it once was, rather than the twisted parody of itself it has become.
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re: 50
Your nose is almost as brown as Ed Balls'.
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Nick,
So the Liberals missed the train? Again.
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I wouldn't worry about me. I post, then I don't. I just don't feel that posting here , for now, is what I want to do. Anyway, Gordon can look after himself.
I figure, after reading the story about Han Xin, Cameron and his Blackberry wielding satellites probably took a piss in their coffee flasks for the rest of the journey.
That's nothing. Gordon Brown is so hard that in one sneeze he discovers a new subatomic particle, and the reminder create the Aurora Borealis.
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CEH
It would be shame if you disappeared.
Some of the Zen stuff makes sense.
Some of the elaborations appear more doubtful. That stuff about Han Xin. As I understand it, he was beheaded by his then leader, for whom he'd battled hard. Sounds a bit like Gordon.
Problem is that many of us don't really care about the background of leaders - just that they lead and are reasonably honest with themselves and us.
Brown never, ever, acknowledged that he inherited a fairly strong economy. He accepted it, by pledging to follow Ken Clarke's 2 year plans.
After those two years, ever effort seemed to be made to invent new stealth taxes, build dependency on the state and make citizens the supplicants of government, rather than being the folk in charge.
That's what annoys me the most.
Like the 10p tax-band fiasco.
A little thought would have allowed him to let people who needed it most take advantage of a lower tax rate. But he chose to make citizens crawl back to apply for their own money.
I frankly don't give a good goddamn which party is "in power". Just as long as they exercise it well.
Racking up debts for our kids is not exactly my idea of good governance.
Prudence disappeared, along with any claim to virtue, many years ago.
Just hope that, if you revert to Zen posting, you won't be as hard on fellow posters as you seem to have been in the past.
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49 pheonixarisen, you obviously misunderstood my post, it was not intended to do me credit or to score me any brownie points[ pardon the pun] and the only object contained was to point out to this unpleasant individual what I thought of his thoroughly distastful remarks that he made about the PM which had nothing to do with politics.
You see I dont loath any man not even septic I dislike him intensely and he does me. And he especially hates and I mean hates anyone that supports the government and whether you agree or not GB is trying to do what he and many others think that he is doing his best for the country.
You of course and he have the absolute right to think about GB what you like and also to write what you like and I am sure that septic does that, dont you think.
I am quite sure that he doesn't give a damn about me and he certainly doesn't need you or anyone else to defend him, he has the most caustic mouth or should I say pen that I have ever come across whether on these blogs or off
If you think that his remarks are some form of banter then you would have considered Adolf as the greatest comedian of his day
You say about myself
"You have become bitter and so are lashing out at bloggers who react to hard times with banter."
If you think that he is lashing out at hard times with banter then check the last two blogs and see how many of his posts have been moderated and none by me I hasten to say.
If I have turned as you say on one or two of the bloggers on here its not because of their political views its because their spitefullness goes beyond politics and into personal attacks.
I had not thought that I would have found a use so soon for a post from carrots but I think its quite fitting in this instance.
Margaret Thatcher once said, I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left.
That is the case with many on here and that being the case one can only treat them in kind, and there you have the reason for my post to septic he has no political argument so he uses hate and spite against GB.and his supporters
It would be better if you were to keep your council as I will undoubtable hear from septic and I guarantee he will be far more offensive than I. Good night my misguided friend.
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The prequel to the Glasgow East bunker video can be found here. It's very amusing.
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I don't think that many people realise exactly what has happened with regard to the implications on the world economy after the fatally flawed decision to rescue Freddie Mac and Fanny Mae.
These were not like US Treasury Bonds, equivalent of our Gilts, but were just ordinary Mortgage Backed. Now, if you knew company law you would know that there is an hierarchy of debt, so a Mortgage Debenture would rank above an Unsecured Loan Stock. But you can only raise funds (mortgage) against the property once, or you should.
This appears to me a bit like the wine salesman who would say that he has a fantastic old wine which he will sell you for $500. You buy it but then he says it needs to be stored in the best wine cellar, and he has that cellar, and will look after it for you. You trust him.
The trouble is he says the same story 1,000 times, only trouble is he only has one bottle of wine which he is selling 1,000 times. The problem comes when somebody actually wants their bottle of wine. It ain't there, it never was.
So, either the wine merchant has to go and buy some wine so he can meet his contractual obligations, or he is exposed and has to go to jail. Either that or the government doesn't want the market in wine to collapse and bails him out.
For wine, its fine art, its gold, its property. It is all based on shifting sands.
As for countries which hold dollars in their reserves, well they won't be worth much as the dollar collapses, which it will. This is why there is a contagion. We are I afraid doomed.
I am reminded of the story of how the banks will bankrupt you for a debt of a few hundred dollars, but if you owe millions!
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As you wake up you will be hearing the news that the American withdrawal from Iraq has started because the 'surge' has been so succesful. The troops being withdrawn will, however probably have to go to Afghanistan, a brilliant exercise in how not to win hearts and minds.
There will also have to be more air attacks on another sovereign territory, namely Pakistan.
I wonder if Britain will also soon be announcing the formal withdrawal of our troops from Iraq, maybe just in time for the labour party conference, now that will stop all the 'stop the war' demonstrators in their tracks won't it? I mean the war in Afghanistan is going so well that we are just about to announce the classic military mistake, we and the Americans are going to reinforce defeat. Wow, this is the end game!
I think that George Bush is aiming to get bin Laden before the American Presidential election. He wants his head on a platter, to show to the American people.
The problems are getting worse, Russia/Georgia, America/Iran, Turkey/Northern Iraq, Sunni/Shi'ite, Dafur/Chad Cameroon, Sudan, Russia/Ukraine, and where exactly are the British Special Forces operating?
And the world economies! Now there is the serious problem of the collapse of the oil price and the dollar. The Great Depression is just a foretaste of what we can expect. Britain and America are being bankrupted by these wars, why do think that Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mac were sold off in the forst place, the Vietnam war, which was also bankrupting America, only Britain wasn't in that one.
This is like watching a train crash in slow motion.
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I figure, after reading the story about Han Xin, Cameron and his Blackberry wielding satellites probably took a piss in their coffee flasks for the rest of the journey.
Yeah. No doubt. The fear of meeting Gordon 'Ghost Dog' Brown had them paralysed in their seats from fear. That'll be it.
Meanwhile back on Earth....
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dhwilkinson and Charles, may I call you that? I hope you both stick around, in amongst all the twaddle, you both have educated minds and the place will poorer without you. I don't suppose you know any proponents of Nick Clegg do you? Just to make the place even spicier.
Kind regards
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Max's posts are always very short, aren't they? ... and they always seem to say the same thing ... "referred to moderators"
When you skim down through a whole blog chain, read it like dialogue in a play, it looks quite funny ... comes over like there's this drunk in the corner raving away to himself but with only the occasional fruity word bursting through.
... "idiots!" ... "despicable!" ..."appalling!"
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Nick,
Following this little trip we are treated in the mornings papers to yet more photos of "Gordon smiling".... OK - so he can smile - but where is the plan? What is the vision?
.......... plus we've got some new quotes from the odious coward Milliband - who 2 months later now backs his boss.
... there are also uncomfortable noises coming from the Trade Unions who seem to want to return the UK to the 1970's.
The death of Labour is just so slow and painful. Can't somebody speed things up a little?!
If Labour don't do Gordon in at their September conference - then October 31st - Halloween - would make a good day for the people to march on London.
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Charles_E_Hardwidge
I'm not sure Zen or Tao have anything relevant to teach Gordon Brown at the moment.
.... if, however, Gordon were to become a student of the 'Flying Spaghetti Monster' - then I think he would find that he could turn his fortunes around if he were to lose the suit and dress as a pirate.
(Whilst GB is at it he could ask the FSM to use his noodly-appendage on the British public and cause us to forget GB's mis-management of the UK finances over the last 10 years.)
For further enlightenment - follow this link:
http://www.venganza.org/
Gordon is going to need divine intervention - the short term gimmicks just aren't working.
Ramen.
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#15
"I'm not paying much attention to Nick's blog or the newspapers anymore. Folks know what I think, and I'm not going stick around just to moan, so I doubt you'll see much of me after today. I just figure my time will be better spent on something else."
Missing you already
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Even Alistair Darling is at now, chuntering on about "achievements over the past eleven years"
Have I missed something?
Can anyone explain what exactly the achievements are?
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56 Grandantidote
Good morning,
A new day dawns - or rains (reigns) - lousy joke!
Let's see what it brings forth.
In the meantime, all bloggers, keep calm and have a really good day!
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66 Ilicipolero
The achievements....... I've asked this question before.
I'd give the following as 'gold plated' achievements for Labour:
1. Peace in Northern Ireland
2. Bank of England Independence
3.
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# 66 (Polero)
Schools and hospitals are better now than they were 10 years ago. Just about all measurements indicate that. We voted for the improvements and, to a large extent, we've got them.
Plus the minimum wage is a good thing, don't you think?
Few other things as well although no way are they "world's best government" or anything like that.
Tons better than the Tories though!
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ref my comments at 68 - some 'glitch' with new Google Chrome - and my posting was submitted mid draft...!
I was struggling to think of a 3rd solid achievement for Labour - I like the 'millenium wheel' - can Labour take credit for that?!
4. Actually..... I'll also give credit for Kosovo and Sierra Leone
........ but that is it isn't it? We just have seen value for money from Labour.
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sagamix @62,
I warm to the idea of being like 'Father Jack'. He was, after all, succinct and to the point.
Cheers!
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# 68 jonathon_cook
I sort of half started a debate with grandantidote elsewhere on this same subject and tried to compile a mental list.
Even being scrupulously fair, I abandoned the thought process because it was starting to look very lop sided.
I couldn't even prioritise the negative aspects of the Bliar/El Gordo years because there were so many things that aggravated....
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jonathan_cook @70 wrote:
"I'll also give credit for Kosovo and Sierra Leone".
An independent Kosovo is far from a 'good thing'.
But then, we reap what we sow.
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@70
Ah yes kosovo, the intervention that has directly led to the Russians little coup in Georgia.
For every action there is an equal and oposite reaction, except in this case we need russian energy and they no longer need anything from Bankrupt Britain
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#69 sagamix
The Ilicipolero jury is still out on Hospitals/NHS, I say that having had experience of overseas systems. Still far too much waste, and I remain to be convinced about the work of NICE.
Foreign Policy, whilst not enviable, is considerably better than that foisted upon the world by George Bush.
I won't go too deeply into the domestic things that trouble me because we could here a while and I'll need to get some work done at some point today
---
#70 jonathon_cook
Google Chrome is okay but only a Beta version presently.
Agreed, nobody has seen value for money and for the foreseeable future that will certainly get worse
Education, improving but, as my old school report back in the day frequently mentioned, must to better.
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I agree with Ilicipolero regarding the NHS.
One should be vary wary of statitstics and 'indicators' especially when it is easy to be in a situation where you are not comparing like with like. For instance I remember that, when pressed, it was admitted that the hospitals were leaving people in the corridors on trolleys so that they could meet their targets of a specific number of people getting a 'hospital bed'.
My old stats teacher used to say to me that you could have two people with the same data and they could draw opposite conclusions.
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My favourite was seeing Gordon after his month long holiday looking so calm and relaxed. It's good to know he's well rested and up for the coming few weeks - by-election, conference etc etc.
Then hopefully it will be the back benches for him before the general election and then looking for a new job.
Wha....sorry I drifted off for a second then!
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I would like to congratulate the government, and in particular the MoD for keeping any former soldier from airing their opinions about the war against Iraq.
They have achieved this in two ways.
They have forced soldiers to sign confidentialit contracts. Forced in the sense that they will not be sent on operations, or serve in certain units unless they do sign.
Then, based on those contracts, theMoD are then able to prevent public debate by the use of court injunctions as any soldier who signed the confidentiality contract, will then be taken to the courts and have injunctions taken out against them.
The house rules of Nicks blog then prevent publication where there is contempt of court, or breaks a court injunction. Isn't freedom of speech brilliant.
Furthermore, I think that you will find that injured soldiers, or the families of those killed, will put any compensation at risk if they go public without any comments being thoroughly vetted.
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66- 72 Polero if your not aware of the many achievements brought about by Labour over the last eleven years then you have apparently been in a coma.
Or alternatively you are so far in denial that you are in danger of seriously damaging your health
As you suggest you find it difficult to compile a mental list, that should tell you something, lay down and have a nice long rest perhaps your brain may catch up with the events of the last eleven years.
72 What happened my friend is that you threatened with a list of bad things that Labour had done and I accepted the challenge with my list of the good things that labour had done and accompanied by all the bad things that the Tories had done. you declined the offer!.
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75 polero, So now your trying to tell us that someone employs you.
"as my old school report back in the day frequently mentioned, must to better."
No improvement there then.
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It's probably been said elsewhere, if so I apologise for repetition, but if El Gordo can find time to welcome home Team GB from Peking and bathe in their glory, why not wait on the tarmac at Brize Norton or Lyneham, is it? to welcome home young men and women who gave their lives in overseas conflicts. To the best of my knowledge this hasn't happened.
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62 Sagamix Now thats not very nice thing to suggest about ppl is it, a little unkind I thought.
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@68
1. 1993: Anglo-Irish pact paves way for peace
The British and Irish prime ministers have signed The Joint Declaration of Peace which they hope will end 25 years of bombing and murder in Northern Ireland.
After nearly two years' negotiation the two leaders, John Major and Albert Reynolds, today stood united on the steps of 10 Downing Street.
Labour werent the government in 1993 and John Major has never been a labour politician to the best of my knowledge
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#79 grandantidote
Simmer !!
Nothing like announcing your presence in the calm, measured manner we associate with you heh?
For the past eleven years I certainly haven't been sleeping, neither do I have selective amnesia. On the contrary I have been wide awake through a period of avoidable and monumental misery wreaked upon the country by Messrs Blair, Brown and others.
I cannot recall ever threatening you with anything, notwithstanding, had I, would not our efficacious moderators had an input?
The exchange we had was last thing at night if memory serves and I might have signed off wishing you a cheery good night.
It's only 1235, your foul mood doesn't bode too well for your afternoon does it? Can I respectfully suggest you take your own advice? Perhaps take a little sleep for a short time.
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78 TAG you seem to be incredible well informed of everything in all departments of the government, are you the member of some under cover think tank.
Or is it just that you have a over imaginative brain that somehow allows you above all others the power to see things that are denied to the rest of us.
ie the assassination of Barrack Obahma making way for Hilary Clinton and of course armageddon early in the new year
Can you tell us, were the servicemen forced at gunpoint to sign these confidential contracts, or was it simply a hand behind there backs sort of force.
Or is that a secret that even you dare not reveal.
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Clearly it's my turn with grandantidotes bullseye on my back today. Bring it on Grandad Dotes x
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Grandantidote - a typical New Labourite. Having read (and contributed to) this blog over a number of months, I can say with confidence that your postings are HEAVILY weighted towards scorn and insult - the very thing you spend most of your time complaining about in others - and only have a very light sprinkling of occasionally valid points.
On the NHS, it is interesting to note that, whilst the longest waiting times have disappeared, the AVERAGE waiting time has actually increased. So, in classic NuLab fashion the headline is good, but the everyday experience is worse.
Recent experience of both my father and a work colleague is that the current NHS policy is to bounce you between a series of different waiting lists so that your actual time on any one list is no more than 4 weeks, but you wait for a lot more than that in total.
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77gthe bouncer,
We are sorry to inform you old chap but it may have seemed like a second to you but unfortunately you've been out for eleven years and you have missed all the wonderful things that Labour have done for you during that time.
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re: 82
It's alright grandy, I forgive you. Labour are pulling your strings; you don't know what you're saying.
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#85 grandantidote
"Or is it just that you have a(n) over imaginative brain........."
Surely better to have one of these than the redundant one inside El Gordo's head. With a brain put to use, (policy) ideas can be discounted and one or two put into practice, a concept El Gordo seems only loosely familiar with, especially discounting the unworkable ones.
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I've certainly missed allthe grand things Labour have done ineleven years. Anyone can spend money but not everyone can get a return.
More doctors and a higher minmum wage are just a drain on resources.
Where is the NewLabour Nissan factory in Sunderland or Toyota factory in Derby or Alyamama contract for British Aerospace? Where is the Newlabour high speed rail link, or channel tunnel, or M6 toll road, or terminal 5, or St Pancras Station or Millenium Dome or new power station or Eden Project.
What have they doen except spend our money on ways that have caused higher taxes and inflation?
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re: 90
And the corrupt ones, such as the 10p tax band disaster.
Nu-LyingBore will go to any lengths to fill its coffers.
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Markets are going up today! ... here's me assuring all and sundry that we're in for the Big Crash and then that goes and happens.
Anyone'd think (if they didn't know any better) that I don't 100% know what I'm talking about.
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It's all gone quiet from our Welsh correspondent. You asleep then grandanidote?
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grandantidote
back in the hold days - when chuck hardwidge used to blog he would come out with a point - people like me would ask him politely to substantiate - but he enjoyed being elusive and controversial - so there was never a satisfactory answer.
you say that there have been some fantastic achievements - although they are not that visible to me.
if I ask nicely - and I am - could you please provide the list of achievements?
was it miliband - who in recent weeks said - "we must start (the fight back) by defending our record"
miliband is correct - in the sense that a large number of the population can see little in the way of large scale achievement.
the city editor of the evening standard yesterday critiscised labour for giving up financial control to the bank of england - on that point I disagree with him. to me that is one of the achievements of labour - to separate an element of financials management from short term political motivations.
please - in your view what are the other achievements of the last 11 years?
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#71 (Max)
One of my favourite characters, FJ!
Seriously though, New Labour's achievements ... quite a few, aren't there?
Let's think ...
- higher living standards
- low inflation
- low jobless
- indy Bank
- min wage
- better schools, better hospitals
- slightly fairer tax
And on the debit side, not that much really ...
- economic "success" based on spivery
- zero regulation of banking sector
- wider gap between rich and poor
- illegal and immoral foreign wars
- tax and benefit system all complexed up
Oh yes, and the "River of Fire" down the Thames, remember that? ... supposed to be the highlight of Millenium night, that was, but it never even caught alight!. That was a real low point.
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grandantidote
If you take the trouble to respond to
#95 jonathan_cook, please would you, in your view, explain what you believe Blair/Brown between them, could or should have done better?
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All very interesting stuff Nick. Very 'brief encounterish' if you don't mind me saying so. The one common factor in all of these goings-on is you Nick. Are you the BBC's version of Goldfinger, minipulating the news and world events from a seemingly innocent looking train? Who are you Nick? What exactly is your role in A: The current crisis with Russia, B: Global Warming, C: the credit crunch? Some answers please Nick. I'm not the only one on here that feels that somehow you and the BBC are responsible for everthing bad that's going on.
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68 J Cook
Bank of England Independence was a very good idea.
Northern Island was not just down to Nu Labour, it was a result of decades of work and much of it cross party.
Im thinking about 3 .... still thinking.... Ill have to get back to you
Oh hold on, hold on. Reform of the house of Lords, they made a start in the right direction.
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Im also going to credit brown with his work to persuade the west to write off third world debt.
He did this unilaterally hoping the other G8 countires would follow and they did.
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Comment 96 has left me speechless. I have just about recovered though to post now.
This is worthy of Gordon Brown himself. A list of 'triumphs' reeled off (most of which could apply to any developed country over the same period enjoying benign economic conditions), then a list of real faux pas tucked away at the end. To trivialise the mismanagement of the economy and illegal wars as "not that much really" is staggering.
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Brief encounters on trains never lead to (Zen) fulfilment, (Charles, come back!) only moments of madness, even with reassuring smiles across the aisles...
Let's get back to the real issue: what sort of music do you listen to?
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96. sagamix
My kids could have done that with the trillions of tax that they have raised along with the extra borrowing
The question is do you think you got value.
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83 Pot kettle No one to my knowledge and certainly not Tony Blair have ever discounted the part played by John Major or Albert Reynolds or even Bill Clinton played in bringing peace to Northern Ireland.
In fact JM was the instigator of the act, but no one unless heavily biased against Tony Blair would deny that the massive amount of time and effort he put into it was the crucial steps along with Bertie Ahern that finally brought peace to Northern Ireland.
This has been openly recognised by the two warring parties there, and he has been complimented for his efforts by both these parties.
For goodness sake man at least be prepared to give credit when deserved or is that to much to ask of you.
Incidentally I didn't see anyone rush to thrust upon us John Major's part in the building of the dome. Very selective memories you Tories.
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#104
Well then you didn't read my comment. john Major was responsible for the Dome and handed you a prize which you stuffed up. The nNewyear celebration of 99/00 was one of the tackiest events in living memory and the subsequent Dome 'attractions' turned out to be a complete flop. Now it's been turned over to the 'nasty and commercial' big business interests and is the O2 it is naturally an unrivalled success.
Command and control = flop
Big business = commercail success
Go figure.
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@104
GA if Major hadnt started it Blair would have had nothing to complete.
The economy is the same, if wonderful KC hadnt sorted out the economy Brown wouldnt have had 10 years before crashing.
So I go back to an earlier point, If GB wants to deny responsibility for the current state of the economy he HAS to deny responsibility for the economic growth.
I will credit GB for the economic growth the day he accepts that he is singularly responsible for putting Britain in the position of being the only member of the G8 in recession.
As for TB's "Peace in Nothern Ireland" legacy, he blew that when he became war monger in Iraq. Come to think of it he had to find a use for all those troops didnt he, does anyone else see cause and effect here!
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7603603.stm
Yup, it's official folks, there's been scientific research into it, and it has been decided that exercise helps you not be fat.
Thankfully this was a US Quango not a GBrown sponsored one. Mind you its only a matter of time before he sets one up to confirm the US results count for GB as well
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Answering 66 Ilicipolero
The indisputable achievements of this Labour government
1. Overturning the centuries old right of Habeus Corpus
2. Abandoning the right to silence.
3. Removing the right to Jury trial in many cases.
4. Allowing British Subjects to be extradited abroad without the right of appeal.
5. Allowing British Subjects to be tried abroad In absentia.?
6. Allowing British Citizens to be imprisoned without trial or court appearance for excessive periods of time.
7. Introducing dozens of new ways for different officials to gain entry to your house, without a warrant or court process.
8. Introducing 3,000 new laws to the statute books, including the criminal offence of putting rubbish in an inappropriate bag and refusing to allow council officials access to your home, even if they have no warrant to enter it.
9. Legitimising the theft of property by allowing the state to steal empty houses which have been unoccupied for a period of time, for whatever reason.
10. Allowing a million people to settle in this country with no consistent official audit of who they are, where they are from, why they wish to come here or how they will support themselves.
#96. sagamix wrote about ?New Labour's achievements?
These were a pitiful crop and easily dismissed.
- higher living standards (Not for pensioners or many employed who are paying a higher proportion of tax than ever.)
- low inflation (Low growth also)
- low jobless (The economically inactive have more than doubled.)
- indy Bank (Done to avoide the blame for rate increases)
- min wage (Reduced wages due to immigration)
- better schools, better hospitals (MRSA and PFI initiatives)
- slightly fairer tax (Higher basic rate tax for poor people. How is that fair?)
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7606374.stm
Prime Minister Gordon Brown has pledged to "rethink" policy to tackle changing pressures on the government.
In an article for The Monitor, Mr Brown said global and domestic challenges had changed since the party came to power.
"And so, the way we govern must change too. That is why in Manchester this year it is time to adapt and rethink New Labour policy," he wrote.
Strewth!
Shock horror the world changed and moved on since you came to power, nasty mean old world if only it had stayed exactly the same we wouldnt have had a bust!
Blimey the man is a nincompoop of the highest order
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sagamix @96,
I'm not sure whether your list of NuLabour 'achievements' was addressed at me, but I'll respond nonetheless for the fun of it.
So, let's go:
higher living standards
I'd have been very surprised had they not risen in 11 year. Living standards have risen everywhere except perhaps in parts of africa where they practice true socialist methods a la Uncle Bob Mugabe).
One can make a case that without the waste, manipulation and incompetence of Nu Labour the British standard of living would have been higher that it currently is.
low inflation is a direct result of
1) indy bank; and
2) the world economy (of which GB can't take credit, 'cos he won't take the blame when things turn sour).
BTW, granting independence to the BoE was one of only two sensible things that GB ever did. The other one was following Tory spending plans for the first two years of his office. It was when he started being a Chancellor sans learner wheels that the rot set in.
low jobless
This trend had started at the end of the Tory administration and would have continued anyway.
One should add that
1) hundreds of thousands of jobless have been redefined as 'disabled'; and
2) hundreds of thousands of non-jobs have been created in the public sector.
min wage
One can argue whether or not this is a 'good thing'. I'm agnostic.
better schools, better hospitals
You must be joking!!! IN spite of billions spent/wasted, hospital treatment in this country is appalling when compared to similar (or lesser) spending in other countries. Not to mention MRSA, difficile, and the appalling (see, I used the word!) state NHS hospitals and levels of service.
As for education, can you put your hand on your heart and swear that A-level tests and university standards are as rigorous as those from a decade ago (let alone 20 or 30 years). Students these days are, however, better with a blade - or to demand their 'rights'.
slightly fairer tax
Not at all! The average Joe is being taxed beyond reason. Just because everyone is being shafted doesn't mean it's 'fair'.
I'll not add to the 'debit side' else I'll be here all day - and I'd like to place my bile elsewhere... ( and where appropriate, acrostically)
I'd just, however, to add the Millennium Dome of Doom to your infamous
"River of Fire". I was there (work related) and can honestly say that I still resent the fact that an 'irreplaceable' night of my life was wasted on that 'celebration' of all that was fatuous and awful about Nu Labour and 'Cool Britannia'.
(PS - was this comment long enough for you?)
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# 101 (Jonno)
Okay yes, the debits are not trivial ... especially the war and the failure to redistribute. This latter is a real disappointment from a Labour government. The gap between winners and losers is bigger now than it's ever been and that's simply not good enough.
Also, fair enough for GB to get a kicking about the economy going basket (although it's the bankers to blame, not him) since he took the credit for the boom when that was also the bankers. Mainly, I mean ... 90% bankers, 10% govt on both the up and the down.
But still, on balance, on the whole, in the round, over the piece, all things considered, this govt has been pretty good. Certainly better than, say, the Tory party of IDS or Will Haigh would have been.
# 103 (Carrots)
Well, they had a clear mandate to spend on public services and they've done that.
And have we got VFM?
... Hmmm, not really because when massive sums of money get spent, significant sums of money get wasted. But that's always the case, isn't it? If we let that stop us from investing, I'm not sure where we'd be.
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33 virtualsilverlady
Please don't be put off. Sometimes a note of gentle reason to add to your mirth would be a welcome distraction.
68 jonathan cook
1. The peace process was long in the making and was started by John Major.
Oh and by the way, Charles, like Zen you are often misunderstood
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84 polero I would have thought that you probably had enough sense have put the word threatening into the right context, It seems the moderaters although often condemned had a little more sense than you.
it of course it is possible that you did wish me a cheery good night was that before you stuck pins in my post or after.
You see you dont read all my posts or you would know that I post on these bloggs to amuse myselfand I just love to wind you intense types up and it succeeds 99% of the time.
Although I must confess that one or two of you are a little beyond the pale and that very occasionally makes me a little annoyed but then I try to forgive them as someone once said forgive them for they know not what they do, now who was that?
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86 polero Dont need a bullseye on your back your far to easy a target.
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109. Pot_Kettle
Give the man a chance, hes still listening and learning and working on his plan for renewal
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Charles,
We know you are out there, waiting for some opportunity to say I told you so. In the meantime, let me reminisce about the good times
To all the posts you've made before,
the ones that we adore,
We're glad you came along,
We dedicate this song,
to all your posts we've loved before
To all the thoughts that you possess,
the one's about the leader, God Bless,
for helping us to grow,
we owe a lot we know,
to all the posts we've loved before
Memries, may be beautiful and yet
Whats too painful to remember
We simply choose to forget
So its the laughter
We will remember
Whenever we remember...
The way we were.
(Apologies to the original artists).
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90 polero you should have learnt by now I dont reply to name calling, you can call me anything you like but name calling people who cant come on here to defend themselves is just plain cowardice. so if you have a desire to converse with me drop the name calling and I will be happy to respond.
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@115 LOL
He has just short of 18 months Maximum!
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104 grandantidote
I wouldn't belittle anyone's efforts in bringing more peaceful times to Northern Ireland. Pity about the wars elsewhere.
Oh and the Dome was a very clever piece of architecture, designed by the same person who did Terminal 5. Clever buildings, but what went into them let them down.
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94 polero , Even a horse gets a nosebag, do you really think that I'm like you guys got nothing else to do all day but then your all a bunch of penpushers aren't you ? you can send out a post when the boss is not looking.
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@116
Wow!
A lyricist up to the standard of ppl.
I now pose the question, Why are all the great lyricists on our side, is it because free market allows them the freedom of expression and the totalitarian Neo Socialists would beat it out of them because its not fair because they cant match it?
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106 pot kettle .I am not going to sit here and exchange views with a intransigent sick man. Good bye get well soon.
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@122
So to precise your answer, oh wait I cant you have no answer to an undisputable fact.
And this from the Blogger who likes to wind people up for his own amusement.
I put it to you that you have learned that you have more than met your match. And you sir like the British Government are bereft of anything meaningful to say.
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105 robin JD no sorry I missed that but we could have done witout the caustic bit. It was William Hague who costed the budget for it and it was his figures and estimation of the amount of visitors that would attend on a daily basis that were 50% wrong,
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109 Pot Kettle , gosh that last sentece of yours were the words i've been looking for to discribe you , nincompoop.
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grandantidote - numerous, the posts addressing me
If you find Grandpa Dotes, I presume that was what you were referring to, offensive, I really don't feel the need to apologise, it sounds similar when said and is far easier to spell. It's hardly name calling is it? In various posts you reveal quite a bit about yourself, some of which I greatly sympathise with. If I was of that mind this would be ammunition with which to knock you, and would be very offensive, be assured I am not like that.
At #113 and #114 you give as good as you get, carry on please do, perhaps roll with the punches in future maybe. The cheery good night was sincere and will be again today if you're still around.
I read every post on here and did for a number of months before deigning to join in the fun.
Anyway, to cut to the chase, how would you respond to the pro's/con's contributed today, following on from where we left off at the weekend? Quite a good debating point on a slowish political news day or not?
Over to you sir
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111. sagamix
Ref: Well, they had a clear mandate to spend on public services and they've done that.
Like I said earlier my kids could spend the money.
Nu Labour rode to power on a promise to deliver improved public services by investing in them.
They took the tax, quite stealthily, borrowed even more, took PFIs to a new level, they spent the money, but they did not deliver the goods.
Lets look at the big 3; Health, Education and Crime.
I was promised Education, Education, Education, We got Education, Edukation, Edukayshun.
I was promised Tough on Crime Tough on the causes of crime, I got PCSOs and prison cells wired for the internet.
I was promised a world class NHS, I got a world class mess, mind you it is now encased in a steel and glass structure, which I shall be forced to rent from a company based in a tax haven for the next 35 years.
The trouble with socialists is that they don?t see the difference between spending and investment and don?t see waste as an issue. After all just wait till the end of the month and there will be a whole load more PAYE cheques arriving.
Can I refer you to my learned friend MaxSceptic at 110 for further reading.
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re: 116
Well done Pot Kettle, a truly fine song. We must be strong and ever-vigilant against their treachery and lies. Through this blog we can keep the flame of resistance to their evil policies burning brightly.
Nu-Labour we'll never give in
To your bare-faced lies and your spin,
You've stolen our tax
Now it's time to face facts:
Let the General Election begin!
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@125
I refer the honourable gentleman to the posts about name calling confirming lack of real arguement
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Whoops in my last post I meant smfcbuddie!
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Children... children...
No-one is interested in your petty squabbling... exchange email addresses and do it in a dignified way...
Let's get back to the real issues: should short-sleeved shirts be worn in the office?
And, if you like Rap music, should you be NuLabour or Post-UKIP?
:)
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123 pot kettle , Now then old chap I can see that your very easy to wind up as I have just done, you a match for me dont be a silly billy, you see your much to intense to even begin to be a wind up merchant plus you have no sense of humour, your far to full of hate to wind people up and I.ll bet your grimacing as you read this. Never mind i'm sure your quite a nice guy really.
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@132
Far from grimacing, I was actually laughing at your delusion.
Now do you have an on topic comment to make or are you going to make us all a nice cup of tea, there's a good fella, Know you role.
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102 robzaba:
Mmmmm, that's a tough question. Well, given I'm so into strategically adopting what ever is the newest happening craze out there (got this habit from new labour) I'd say, I really don't really 'listen' to music. Taking a leaf out of new labours language politics I now immerse myself in non offensive soundscapes. These soundscapes are drawn from new labour's list of pre-approved acceptable soundscapes (from their policy document titled: new labour soundscapes for harmonious social space). These range from: traditional folk music to more esoteric atonal 'space configurations'. Now, i don't think I could have given you a clearer answer than that. So there you go. if you want more detail on these things the new labour soundscape advisors can help you.
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Just the one sugar for me
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Just thought of another benefit of having NU Labour in government:
Free fruit for four to six-year-olds at school.
Oh yes and my dog got an A level this year.
Hes a smart dog though, not your avergage daft mutt.
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@131
Short sleeves and turn up the heating and burn some more of those expendable fossil fuels to compensate. Thats one surefire way to ensure the government miss its Kyoto targets.
I ride a motorcycle and with the wet summer we've just had I'm all for a bit more global warming.
When I get home I'm going to print out Gordons foreward to conference 1000 times then burn them on the barbie. All those extra trees and the extra bit of Carbon ought to help the summer season next year.
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Carrots 136:
That's a remarkable dog you've got there. It just goes to show you what an inclusive new labour education policy can do. The problem is though will your mut get a job at the end of it all. Does he/she plan to go to university? Now that would be a first. Although I've been told that some of the new uni's are quite open to this idea now that their overseas student targets are not being met.
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Next question is:
When is the next Prime Ministers' Questions? Is it tomorrow? If so I'm gutted, cos I'll be on a bus to Budapest (no tax-payers will pay, mind) so it'll have to be 'listen again' on BBC, not that GB would understand that, but anyway, and the other thing is that I'll be missing England vs Croatia... actually, thinking again, might be a good bus ride... :)
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#124
What is wrong with you NewLabour posters?
You can't blame William Hague for costing the Dome - you were in charge for two and a half years and could have reviewed it, changed it, properly costed it.
If any more NewLabour posters are going to claim no responsibility for the eleven years their government has been the ruling party then they'd better do the only sensible thing and recommend to their government that they resign. Immediately.
you are a carbon copy of all your ilk; you want to be in control but not responsible for any result unless it's a success. Higher salaries for doctors and higher minimum wages are not a success; a monkey could have done that.
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Grandantidote,
Terrible spelling and grammar, young man. Perhaps you should spend a little more time working on your "penpushing"?
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139 robzaba:
Budapest? Sounds good. Wouldn't worry about PMQs, what we need is a new take on that one, something along the lines of: prime ministers answer time, 'PMAs' because he certainly has a lot to answer for.
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testing?
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126 polero, like wise I had many posts after my short interval many of them from you with Charles away and DHW seemingly not in attendance plus Gary Elsby and Eatorifle it seems that every one wants to have words with me hence the fact that I haven't had time to compile a list for who was it Cook I think.
No of course its not what you call me I have just made that clear if you had read my posts you would have seen that .I am more than capable of taking any name calling.
I have lived in a mans world all my life and I can assure you that I very much doubt if you could call me anything that I haven't been called before with the exception of Grandpa dotes cant remember being called that one before. the thing is can you accept any name that I call you.
Some bloggers on here think that I get offended by name calling and their right but not calling me names thats fine more power to their elbow, its stupid names that they attribute to our politicians that I wont accept I dont use them against conservative politicians so I dont accept it against labour, simple isn't it,
You say,
"In various posts you reveal quite a bit about yourself, some of which I greatly sympathise with. If I was of that mind this would be ammunition with which to knock you, and would be very offensive, be assured I am not like that."
Well polero there is nothing in my life that I need you to sympathise with if you think it could be offensive be my guest, if you think that you have ammunition then go ahead, you say your not like that but if you thought it then it must be there inside you. My old Mum used to say to me that evil thinkers are as bad as evil doe'rs.
I'm glad that you realise that that is all it is a bit of fun its a pity there aren't a few more that realise that.
Todays posts well pretty mediocre, all stuff we have heard before , much of it aimed in my direction, I dont mind that but its a bit hard on my one finger, the one I use to type but I get by
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PMQs. Answers. Is that what is supposed to happen? They haven't had long enough holiday yet and we've got the conference season to go through
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Any chance of a coffee instead, pet?
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133pot kettle Well there you are its all a bit of a laugh, your finally getting the idea.
I had thought that by the content of your posts you had got the idea long ago. Your not going to tell me that you were serious about what you've been writing today, I cant believe that.
Does anyone else believe that Pot Kettle has been serious about what he's written today, only genuine hands up please not the usual brown noses
Well there you are then, I usually get the servants to make the tea but you wont mind will you, now trot along and use the darjeeling its in the yellow caddy.
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126 polero
The more you rankle him the longer his post.
I was going to give you a 7.
But now I hear he only uses one finger Ive awarded you a 9.
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# 127 (Carrots)
So you don?t like ?Stealth Taxes?? ? me neither.
A nice clear, progressively stacked, increase in headline income tax was what we needed, wasn?t it?
Unfortunately, Labour were terrified of ?Middle England? (as well represented on these boards) and they chickened out of doing that. It was a big mistake.
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@147
\o/ There you go I put both hands up.
I thought you may come up with better than returning the "make the tea" jibe.
You have gone down several levels in my estimation.
I also note that you have still failed to make any observable point that is remotely on topic. You have dogedly stuck at the Thatcher acclaimed personal insult level. So it is as most of us have assumed you like the governement are bereft of ideas.
Has anyone else read the full transcript of GB's foreward to conference?
I think Chuck has been busy.
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141 e murdstone you are way to late with the spelling and grammar thing ive had that from experts on here, just bear in mind that you know exactly what I'm saying and what I mean if you want to pick holes in spelling take a look at many of the posts on here to day and they were written by people who had a much better education than I.
Its not grammar or spelling you want to worry about my penpushing nerd its intellegence and you dont seem to have much of that or you wouldnt be so damn ignorant. your obviously a newcomer on here so I will let you off lightly.
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150 pot kettle you were never rated in my estimation.
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The number of students entering university has increased by 50% in a decade across industrialised countries, says a major annual survey.
But for the UK, the growing number of graduates risks a widening social gap warns the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD).
But Mr Schleicher warns of a "polarising" effect, with non-graduates falling further behind.
I would laugh but it is so tragic for the Labour purests that by enabling ANYONE to go to Uni they actually increase the gap between the haves and the have nots. And in his foreward to conference Brown sights this gap as a failing of his government when he should be hailing it because his policy induced it
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@152
You dont know how happy that makes me as your estimation of everything is so way off reality
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#144 grandantidote
What a shame there is not the facility to send and recieve private messages on this board. I'd love to respond to your contribution, (positively), but here is not the place.
Grandpa dotes was simply a play on words around your screen name.
"polero" Like it, see we're chums already
Onwards and upwards, loads more disagreeing to be had!!
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#110 (Max)
I agree with you, however, that Gord is responsible for neither the boom nor the slump. If you want somebody to blame for all this, try the poodle of Wall Street, the man who had both the mandate and the power to prevent this mess but was too consumed with personal vanity to do his job properly. Just completely incapable of doing anything that the markets and the bankers wouldn?t like ? the single most overrated individual of modern times (with the possible exception of George Osborne).
Yeah, Mr G, he?s the one whose mostly to blame. Why don?t you give him some stick instead of always sniping at our poor dead duck PM?
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140 robin jd
"Higher salaries for doctors and higher minimum wages are not a success; a monkey could have done that."
well the Tories never had enough nous to do it so it doesn't say much for them does it?
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#148
What's he doing with his other hand? Is the thought of GB and DC squeezing past each other on the same train just too much to handle?
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#148 CarrotsneedaQUANGO2
Ha ha ha - lol
I think I might have emerged slightly ahead on points. Sometimes however hard you try you can't always hide your irritation. That'll do lovely for me.
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Grandantidote,
3/10, dear boy - corrections below. Marks awarded mainly for effort rather than content...
141 *E Murdstone* you are way *too* late with the spelling and grammar thing*, I've* had that from experts on here*. Just* bear in mind that you know exactly what I'm saying and what I mean*. If* you want to pick holes in spelling take a look at many of the posts on here *today* and they were written by people who had a much better education than *me*.
Its not grammar or spelling you want to worry about my penpushing nerd *it's* *intelligence* and you *don't* seem to have much of that or you *wouldn't* be so damn ignorant. *You're* obviously a newcomer on here so I will let you off lightly*.*
Keep your pecker up; you've obviously got some pluck, you just need to learn to present yourself a little better.
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#150 Pot_Kettle
"Has anyone else read the full transcript of GB's foreward to conference?
I think Chuck has been busy"
All piss and wind ??!!
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I've shamelessly stolen an award from BBC Radio 4's Test Match Special, if they still do it that is.
Today's "Champagne Moment" on here??
Contenders??
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sagamix @156,
Who is Mr G "the poodle of Wall Street"? (I'm honestly not sure to whom you are referring).
I've never blamed Brown for the slump, but for not having - after years of plenty - any 'strategic reserves' or surplus to ease the blow.
But then, having abolished the economic cycle ('boom and bust'), he obviously didn't see the need for prudence.
Anyway, our 'poor dead duck' of a PM keeps pretending to be alive and functioning. Until he's gone and politically buried I shall keep on sniping at his stinking carcass.
As for Osborne - I'll give him his marching orders after the Tories win the election.
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Remember those curled up, mouse-trap cheese sandwiches at railway station restaurants? I can see GB, on his train journey, trying to hold one and it curling around his big clobbering fist!
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#110 (Max)
I disagree with you when you say ?
- schools and hospitals are not better than 10 years ago ? they ARE better ? all the stats say so and how else can we judge other than with the stats? ? all prejudice and anecdote otherwise, isn't it?
- the public sector is full of non jobs (being jobs that are not worth doing) ? it has its share, of course it does, but the private sector has loads more of them ? the council advisor for something very silly? ? the empty vessel manager shuffling to and fro in a bank all day? ? who are there more of?
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@161
Well it goes on and on and on but doesnt actually say anything.
A perfect demonstation of Chucks writing style if ever I saw it.
Maybe not quite enough Zen for me to be sure it was him though.
It would explain why he has left though, if he has to write the rest of the conference speech. I cant wait for the conference to see if he is ghost writing for GB.
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#157
The tories didn't do it because you don't pay peoeple more for doing the same job. You ask for productivity improvements. newLabour dod the opposite and asked doctors to work shorter hours.
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sagamix @165,
Most Stats are manipulated to match (political) targets.
Go for the 'hard' facts and figures that can't be 'interpreted': deaths from MRSA; etc.
Like when going for a meal at a restaurant, I tend to trust 'anecdotal evidence' (or personal recommendations) over massaged official figures (or 'ratings/reviews').
Am I prejudiced? Against the lying, cheating bureaucracy, I certainly am!
I really don't care how many 'non-jobs' there may be in the private sector. I don't fund them, and companies employing non-productive employees will die out. It's taxpayer-funded public sector 'non-jobs' that annoy me.
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Pot_Kettle @166,
Chuck left because he was a prolix, pompous, charlatan who had been rumbled.
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155 polero yes my friend I understood that completely contrary to popular opinion I am not stupid but I cant remember being particularly aggressive towards you, may be I was but there you are, as I have said before a lot of nonsense really but it keeps us of the streets. We shall I am sure have many more battles on here and may the best man win, thats me of course, watch them jump on me for saying that.
well I have to answer the viper then thats me for to night I think unless the wife takes the leash off.
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169 septic max now you know what I meant by a ambush predater you know he's gone so out comes the poisoness saliva.
your such a couragious person aren't you.
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Max, 165, 168,
Alan Greenspan is the POWS.
You do fund the private sector. If someone is being paid say 100 grand a year in a company for doing FA, you could stop him doing that and instead put him to work (for a fair wage) building a road. Outcome would be a road gets built and the company who he used to work for is more profitable.
So the cost of him doing the non job is that you are short a road and the company (who your pension scheme probably has shares in) is less valuable. That's pretty expensive.
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grandauntiedolt @171,
I've always enjoyed insulting Chuck to his face (so to speak). With you there is little enjoyment: it's like treading on slugs after hunting larger pests. Still, the garden needs to be kept clean.
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160 E Murdstone, the lack of capitals used in your name was deliberate and a sign of
distaste regarding your rather self congratulatory post. I see many of my own mistakes I promise you but I am afraid that I am to old to really care perhaps you would prefer not to read my posts and I will do my best to reciprocate.
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sagamix @172,
Thanks for the clarification. He did warn about 'irrational exuberance' - but not loud enough!
I prefer the private sector to be private and laissez faire as possible. I fund who I chose to fund by purchasing their products and services and/or investing.
If I had a pension fund, it would be mainly in the armaments industries - so I would do well I imagine ;-)
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Grandantidote
What an interesting chap you are. You would be a challenge, but I am willing to help. It would be like dear Eliza all over again.
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173 septic max , yes septic I understand perfectly what you mean you really are a fearsome fellow. you knew that Charles was a gentle pleasant fellow so you were quite happy to insult him to his face[so to speak] now I understand you completely you attack me with grandauntiedolt, very dangerous, and extremely immaginative. You know better than to use the same tactics on me, I probably would be the slug you step on that makes you fall and break your neck then we slugs could slide all over you to put you into the slime you pour on everyone else.
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171. grandantidote
Ref: your such a couragious person aren't you.
See what I mean about Education, Edukation, Edukayshun.
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# 15
A few years ago, we arrived back at Gatwick, following a short holiday in Morocco.
As I waited at the carousel for my luggage, I saw a scuffy looking individual also waiting for his cases.
I frowned a bit as the face seemed vaguely familiar.
He looked at me and also kind of frowned, like me thinking 'hmmm do I or should I know this chap'.
Then somebody came over and accosted Mr. Scruffy with a book to sign.
Then the penny dropped, it was Piers 'me dears' Morgan.
I guess that in his line of business, successful networking is of crucial importance.
I am pleased that he did not recognise me because I am not and do not wish to be a 'media figure'.
Anonymnity is an extremely precious thing to have, as virtually anybody who is now 'famous' will privately tell you.
Because fame, as I found out through an indirect involvement with one of the worlds most famous couples, has a very dark side indeed.
No names, no pack drill.
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178 carrots ,I am really quite sure that I will be able to return the compliment very soon.
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176 e murdstone I'm wondering what sort of a chap you are! is there a hidden meaning to the fact that you want me to be your Eliza.
I'm a man and happily married I weigh 20 st and I'm in a wheel chair oh! and I forgot to mention I'm almost 78 years old.
So whatever your sexual leanings I dont think I would fit into your picture of Eliza do you.
You do know how that story ends dont you? there's no way your going to be my Henry Higgins, apart from that he was a gentleman and not in ones wildest stretch of imagination on the evidence of your posts could you be called that.
I do have a feeling that we have crossed swords before, now was it Waldorf , 113 Park Avenue or could it have been Dutchy.
It would seem to coincide with the return of nigella awsome as Miss Waldorf, I may be wrong, but he had the same supercillious attitude as you. his greatest achievment in life was to be a primary school teacher, can you top that old boy!
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L'esprit d'escalier my friend L'esprit d'escalier.
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181. grandantidote
PLEASE, PLEASE Im trying to eat my breakfast.
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Grandantidote
Fascinating mind. I think I'll need to revisit some of my Freud before I can fit you in. Right now I've got Charles in the consulting room, so got to dash before he zen shui's the whole place. Keep you spirits up in the meantime, I really do think that with some hard work improvement is possible.
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My boyfriend Waldorf is not masquerading as Murdstone I can assure you. I would know if he was. As for his supercilious attitude I could say the same for you. Pot Kettle Black as it were. His achievements went far beyond being a Primary School Teacher but I'm not going to bore everyone on here with the intimate details. Prepare for a backlash by the way from anyone on here who is a teacher. You would seem to be demeaning a very noble profession.
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The Loony Left have promised to quit this site, after issuing belles-lettres to those who are their special betes noirs. They are are course free to return and resume battle when they can muster enough bottle. However, let us hope Gordon Brown and his crew of cabinet minsters will follow the lead of their brave supporters, and avant and quit our sight! To once again quote the Great Bard - Our damned spot, Out!!!
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187
Forgive me all the typing errors. I'm so excited, it's just like VE Day (Victory in Europe Day) 1945.
Now, is it the begiining of the end, or the end of the beginning??
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Dull-o.
What's the big deal? They work in the same chuffing building. I'm sure they've passed each other in the corridor before. "Delicious"
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95 jonathan cook
171 Polero and J Cook theres a few things for you to be getting on with I didn't think I should leave with my tail between my legs like a whimpering puppy not that I've ever seen one I treat my fellow ihabitants of the world with respect unless their Tories and then I have to struggle with my conscience.
Two million back to work.
Peace in Northern ireland.
More nurses.
More doctors.
Community police.
More regular police.
More teachers Teachers assistants.
Better and more schools that are much better equipped .
Better and more hospitals with infinitely better equipment.
Free museums.
Free bus passes for the elderly.
Free swimming for the elderly,and dozens more leisure centers.
Free TV for the elderly.
?250 winter allowance for over 65s, ?300 over 80s.
Sure start.
Tax credits.
Increased family allowance.
More maternity allowance for pregnant mothers.
Iincreased return to work and pay conditions for mothers with new babies.
More maternity leave for mums and dads.
More pay for child care.
Bank independance.
Minimum wage.
Massive overseas aid.
Overseas tax relief for many struggling countries.
The first to send large amounts of aid to countries with natural disasters.
Banning smoking in public places.
Taking an active part in taking action in several wars to free countless millions of people from subjugation thus giving millions of younsters a better chance in life.
Giving the police stronger powers to keep us safe from terrorists.
Bringing in the 28 day remand law
Giving conntracts to build two new trident submarines also two air craft carriers which in the light of recent russian military moves was a very wise thing to do.
Putting thousands of speed camerars in place thus cutting down huge numbers of lives being lost paticularly children.
Saving Northern Rock which in turn saved a catastrophic run on the banks that Would have decimated the banking system in this country.
Saved Rail track.
Paid millions out to disabled miners that had been waitng for the Tories to pay up for years.
Kept inflation and interest rates the lowest since records began and for the longest period,
Made inroads into the reform of the house of lords.
Banned fox hunting and hunting with dogs
Removed us from the tory fuel escalater which reduced the price of fuel well below the price it would have been under the tories. they have introduced two hundred young people into apprenticships and have moves afoot to get another couple of hundred.
well there are lots more. I am sure you will wriggle and squirm on some of these but there you are,I didn't want to write this list because its been done before not only by me but many others many of these things have been put forward by Tories so there your are.
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# 189
Yes, you'd have to be extremely blinkered to say that Labour have done absolutely no good since they came into power.
Unfortunately, human nature seems to usually cause the negatives to completely swamp the positives.
When I read today in the Times about the colossal difference that a single cow, donated by Times readers, has made to people living in a village in Africa then that really does put our relatively cosy existence here in England in a different perspective entirely.
We do not have much to grumble about compared to the vast majority of the people living on this planet.
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189:
I notice that you have saved this particular post and and for added effect have inserted it into 3 different blogs all dealing with 3 different Nick Robinson initiated topics. Well done but the one would have sufficed. We're all capable of trawlng through the blogs and picking up on the points you have made without having them rammed down our throats.
A few observations. Noone is saying that Labour's 11 years have been entirely fruitless. Over the course of that time you would expect there to be improvements in all these areas particularly when you take into acount the massives amounts of tax we have all been paying into The Exchequer. Unfortunately the minuses of Gordon Brown's stewardship outweigh the positives in my opinion. Ask yourself why he and his Government are so unpopular if he has been responsible for all these good things you mention. The General Public aren't daft.
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209carrots
remember.
171. grandantidote
Ref: your such a couragious person aren't you.
See what I mean about Education, Edukation, Edukayshun.
-------------------------------------------------------
178 carrots ,I am really quite sure that I will be able to return the compliment very soon.
--------------------------------------------------------
But Labour rode to power on the promise of change and to work hard to reduce iequality.
-------------------------------------------------------
See what I mean about Education, Edukation, Edukayshun.
Gotcha!
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191 miss Warldorf, If as you say you are capable of trawling through the blogs.
If you had you would have seen that I was asked on a number of occasions by the people mentioned in my post to give them this list.
When I implied that I was going to leave the blog I was asked by a number of other people to answer the question of what labour had done for the country.
This with a element of smugness and intimating that I couldn't answer and in fact that I was leaving with my tail between my legs.
Well as I had said earlier that these lists had been posted by me and others in the past, so I felt it tiresome to have to go through it again.
You are all aware of the items listed and you know them to be true its just that your all to busy looking for little chinks in labours armour that you fail to realise that labours opponent has been well and truly unseated from his horse.
The reason that I put it on three posts is because having requested it so many times I felt that it would be sad if they missed it.
Beware of Waldorf's wrath.
." Noone is saying that Labour's" He wont like that! In his last post to me he said that he would not converse with anyone with bad spelling or grammar.
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touché Sir touché.
Must try harder. I do concede that my edukayshun was appalling.
Oh yes and good morning
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194 carrots revenge is sweet even if it doesn't last long.
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GA:
Top blog at 189. Whilst I haven't got the time to try and keep the rabid right wingers at bay on here I commend you for your efforts. I notice time and again that when people can't dent the quality of your argument they retort to banging on about your spelling. Good on you!
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196:
When you speak of 'rabid right wingers' on here who exactly are you referring to? Are you lumping together all those who vehemently object to The Government, its leader and its record or do do you have someone particular in mind? The accusation thrown at both Labour and Conservative is that there is not a hair's breadth between them in terms of policies. A right wing stance would get extremely short shrift from The Electorate. On the subject of spelling I agree that is not a prerequisite for stating your opinions to have a good command of the English Language but it is not beyond the bounds of human intelligence to use a spell checker. Writing out a piece on Word, spellchecking it and then pasting it into the BBC blog would take a matter of seconds to negotiate and would immediately take the wind out of any critical sails on this forum.
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It should of course read "that it is not" on line 8. Apologies.
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i wonder if anyone got to speak to our beloved leader without being vetted searched then charged an extra 60 quid under some random "anti terror" law?
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189 - a very detailed post - but not entirely accurate.
just to pick up on a few points you kindly raised for us all:
*Two million back to work - how many of the record jobs numbers created have been part time? ie, two people now do 1 full time job? my labour MP wont answer this!
*Peace in Northern ireland - Last time i looked major was a conservative? - blair may have dotted the i's and crossed the t's major got them talking and to put down their weapons.
*More nurses - more "foreign nurses" which has led to the a huge drain on nhs resources in claims against the service for mistakes made.
* More doctors - yet we cant book a regular appointment unless its the same day and many people struggle to get to see one at all, (you can have an extra 3 million in your army but they wont do any good if they are not organised to use guns)
*Community police - youre not seriously saying these are a benefit to us? why have real police when the numbers of community support officers is being increased from 4000 to almost 18000?
* Better and more schools that are much better equipped - actually there are less schools today, despite the apparent increase in top grades, why do you think blair/brown have increased the numbers going into higher education instead of leaving school? could it be that there are no jobs for them to goto?
* Better and more hospitals with infinitely better equipment - definately less hospitals today. equipment improves no matter which party are in power, its technology advancing. im just glad labour use the new equipment to rip off patients when they watch tv or use the phone!
how does having to travel 18 miles to a "new" hospital whilst 4 local ones close down and are sold to developers, help with reducing fuel usage/emmissions, in the fight against co2 that brown is so fond of spouting about?
* Free TV for the elderly - only the over 70s. more discrimination eh? what about all the money gordon has made from digiboxes and new aerials being fitted in taxation? how much has the tv licence gone up for the majority whilst bbc funding in relative terms has been cut. dont be fooled by gordon handing out a few crumbs to a minority group whilst stinging big money off the rest of us.
* Tax credits - simply a benefit system that isnt counted in official figures! if parents actually had any time with their family unit nowadays, they wouldnt struggle to pay nursery fees of over £200 per week (more than a full time wage in many cases) and therefore wouldnt need tax credits.
why not give this money to workers in the form of better wages?
or shock horror.... perhaps lower the burden of taxation?
* More pay for child care - have you seen the cost of nursery fees lately? these have to be paid during school holidays as well!
a full time job would do well to cover them.
* Bank independance - dont forget the FSA and the billions to set up and run theyve spent, they did such a cracking job regulating the industry didnt they!
bank independance was a conservative policy.
* Minimum wage - ive seen how this works first hand: bloke A has 15 years experience and now gets paid almost the same as little johnny who has no experience and just left school. bloke A then has to take on more work to train little johnny in the job, working harder for no reward.
* Putting thousands of speed camerars in place thus cutting down huge numbers of lives being lost paticularly children - a single childs life saved we would all agree would be welcomed but many reports have shown that children killed on our roads is increasing - labour had a 10 year plan back in 2000, to cut child road deaths by 40%, yet in 2007 we finished 20th out of 24 european countries after an increase of 20%
* Saving Northern Rock which in turn saved a catastrophic run on the banks that Would have decimated the banking system in this country - caused by labour deregulating the banking industry and the FSA allowing northern rock to function without an emergency plan. the only reason they werent allowed to fall (and be bought up by competitors) was to delay a possible recession, which today doesnt look very good policy at all.
* Saved Rail track - this is a joke right? labour ministers in court actually devalued and stangled rail track costing thousands of investors their savings. bringing in network rail to replace it, who charge so much to the franchises,that ticket prices are at record levels (which helps to increase inflation)
* Kept inflation and interest rates the lowest since records began and for the longest period - i think the bank of england might disagree with you there - they use interest rates to control inflation, interest rates which are no longer linked to mortgages by the providers
* Made inroads into the reform of the house of lords - 11 years of a labour government and they still havent finished this! first PM in history to be questioned by a police investigation over cash for honours
* Banned fox hunting and hunting with dogs - it hasnt been banned, its been put under licence (run by another unelected quango)
* Removed us from the tory fuel escalater which reduced the price of fuel - give us it back and fast! if you are happy paying todays price for your fuel,you must be the only person in the UK!
* introduced two hundred young people into apprenticships and have moves afoot to get another couple of hundred - 200? wow! labour came to power and ended the apprenticeship schemes, 5 years later there was a national shortageof plumbers, electricians,joiners,builders,plasterers, etc. they could have trained thousands of school leavers, but they didnt.
a few that you missed out:
* record levels of personal debt
* £55 billion taken from pension funds (causing many to collapse) and leaving real people with nothing after a lifetime of work!
* gold reserves sold off at a low price, immeadiately before it went through the roof
* fiddled reports and figures on everything from the iraq war to benefit claimants
* 10p starting rate of tax as a long term plan, then ditched years later costing every tax payer in the country
* twice pledging in general elections to reduce the borrowing deficit saying it was wrong to borrow more, then increasing it close to record levels and now proposing to borrow even more!
* "we will not introduce student loans!" then not only introducing them but selling the loan book off for profit to the banks!
* "we will not raise income tax!" then increasing national insurance
* increasing the retirement age due to us "living longer" when almost every report into browns pension grab states if we paid back 27 billion of the money he stole, we could retire at current ages
things can easily be seen in a different light i know, but come on i think the majority in the UK have now "seen the light" as regards this hapless and bumbling government.
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Well said 200.
Some people on here would have it that GB can do no wrong and has a marvellous record in terms of financial planning. It's time the record was put straight.
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