Taking the credit
This morning David Cameron called on the government to accelerate legislation to protect savings.
This afternoon Gordon Brown said in my interview* with him that the Banking Bill would increase protection for depositors from £35,000 to £50,000.
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This evening the Financial Services Authority are making it clear that neither man has affected what is their decision to raise depositor protection. It will not be in the Banking Bill.
The rise from £35k to £50k does not require legislation. The FSA has the power to do it and has been consulting on the proposal for some time. They were keen to announce their decision at a time of relative calm.
The FSA's fear was that announcing increased depositor protection at a time like this would increase anxiety amongst savers about the safety of their deposits and would lead to calls for a higher level of protection (like that in Ireland where today the government promised to protect 100% of deposits for the next two years).
Did the politicians not understand or did they ignore the FSA's fear in a race to claim the credit?
* This is the transcript of my interview :
Nick R: But government did say it would look again at that issue of protecting depositors after Northern Rock, and it's still not happened. Why isn't it right to say to people, rest assured, all your savings are safe?
GB: We did raise the amount from £35,000 and we're raising it to £50,000...
Nick R: But it hasn't happened yet?
GB: Yes yes, it's in the Banking Bill and it will go through very quickly and I hope it will go through with all-party support
I'm 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~20~RS~)
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There is a reason why the FSA had to invoke this now and not when some "magical calm" appears on the horizon.
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A new character in the pantomime, Banking Bill. Plenty of stuff to write about, how about a franchise for a kids tv series then.
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Brown caught lying again, colour me shocked.
For someone who keeps waffling on about trust and transparency, you'd think he'd try taking a dose of them himself.
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Nick; please stop embedding movie files within your pages; it kills people's browsers and is unnecessary; use links instead.
If you're not careful people will start boycotting your blog because they're scared their laptop fan will explode just like it does on the sky site.
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I recall David Cameron calling for increase to £50,000 after Northern Rock .. 1 year ago.. I also recall David Cameron asking for Parliament to be extended (summer break) to put this bill through..so if the FSA already had this power why wasn't this highlighted and executed immediately at that time?
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Taking the credit - more like taking the p...
Why could Gordon Brown simply not followed the lead of the Irish? Instead he says 'up to 50000' - but nobody has lost any money yet. What does this mean?
Which part of the Treasury is so scared of an unlimited guarantee if it is implied by Gordon Brown in his supporting statements?
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Gordon Brown took "credit" for getting the americans to pass the bill that he says he told them to enact (then it failed).
No surprises at all that Brown wants to take credit for something else that he didn't do or even know anything about.
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It appears by your interview Brown is unaware that the FSA already has the power to increase deposit protection and does not need legislation, or am i just confused? please can you clear this confusion Nick?
very strange!
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#1 JobyJak
I have no idea what point you are trying to make.
Unlike your normal posting on sports blogs, some resemblance to making a point helps.
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Cameron could be forgiven for getting this wrong - he doesn't have the civil service at his disposal.
For Brown to get it wrong - after all isn't he noted for his massive attention to detail - is incompetent.
I was going to say 'shockingly' incompetent -but nothing about brown could shock me any more.
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Don't make me laugh about Flash Gordon "doing whatever it takes to protect savings".
The truth is that Brown has deliberately penalized everybody who has savings in PRUDENTLY run traditional building societies, by making those societies pay for the idiocy of wannabe banks like Bradford and Bingley.
If those societies have to pay out compensation funds, that much mean lower rates for savers.
Another day, another stealth tax, another pack of Labour lies.
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The mods appear to be blocking me by ip address again.
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Sorry mods. I will try again.
You, Nick, are telling us that the Financial Services Authority has the power to up the bank deposit guarantee from 35.5 grand to 50 grand and has done so today. The Prime Minister says its in the Banking Bill and does require parliamentary approval.
Not so much a question of taking the credit as taking the p**s.
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Does anybody remember the Mock Auctions when bargains were offered at ridiculous prices? Colleagues of the spiv acting as the auctioneer were scattered through the audience and got the bargains at rock bottom prices or for nothing at all. This would send the greedy public into a spending frenzy, and forgetting the old motto that if it's too good to be true, it isn't true, they bid high for poor quality rubbish. Gordon Brown is the auctioneer, although I must admit he doesn't look very trustworthy, whilst Darling, Jack Straw and a few other key players are in for the game. Will the greedy public fall for it yet again?
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Nick
Could you please answer me a question. Personal savings are currently protected up to £35,000 but what happens to company bank accounts?
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4 getridofgordonnow
It's a bug that's been planted to check up on us. Big Brother is coming!
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Well im glad Gordon has been able to muster up another quick plan to give him more time in the spotlight, he seems to be making an announcement about one thing or another on a daily basis just to eat away at Conservative party conference air time, and hasn't it worked?
I think a change in public opinion could be just around the corner if he keeps this up, its looking like Gordon's the rock and Cameron's the little pebble being blown about (in a kind of U shape) by the turbulent economic winds!
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So is it cock up or conspiracy?
With this government I think I can bet my Bradford and Bingly shares on the former.
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#2 "A new character in the pantomime, Banking Bill. Plenty of stuff to write about, how about a franchise for a kids tv series then".
Nah - we've got enough muppets in charge already thanks
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does anyone know how the £35,000 rule applies to joint accounts? ie does it become £70,000 guaranteed?
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17. govandpol
Derek Draper Cyborg Infestation Detected
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Well here we are again, another mess, im frightened to turn the TV on for it just seems to get worse, Governments should protect their people, but we stand to lose all our savings because a few greedy banks tried to make easy money, and this Government like its done for years now stood by and allowed it. I am retired and living off the savings i made during my working life and because of this rubbish Government i could loose everything, its a crime but they will wring their hands and still walk away the richer.
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20 Wildkaypea
Cover is per person and is double on a joint account
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I am fed up with Gordon and Alistair saying "what ever it takes" every day, for the newest doom and gloom event...
I think "whatever David Cameron suggests" would be more accurate.
I am going to vote for "whoever it takes" to get them out of government.
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#22
At the risk of prying into your financial affairs, what are you scared of losing?
Your savings should be guaranteed if they are in a bank (if you have less than £35,000 - soon to be £50,000). The Government has also shown every sign that it will not let a single retail (high street) bank go bust, and will make sure the taxpayer protects your savings.
I thought pensions funds generally went into safer assets such as bonds or an annuity when you retired (maybe I'm wrong), so you should be ok there (unless you invested some savings in Northern Rock or something).
The equity you have tied up in your home will decrease, but unless you were a first-time buyer in the previous 10 years that was only a paper fortune anyway.
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Another reason why this man needs to go................he is just not on top of his job....................and never has been!
Watch this space guys.............Crash Gordon's is going to load the taxpayer with a massive debt to try to get re-elected.
Prediction 1. Complete rewrite of the fiscal rules enabling mega borrowing...all to the spent before the next election.
Prediction 2. Bank of Englands remit to be rewritten to include growth targets as in the US......hence massive interest rate cuts.
Who ever wins the next election will have 5 years to get the economy back on track and deal with the effects............mega debt and mega inflation.
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If he says a categoric "yes" to the increased cover to £50,000 it could be disastrous if they DO have to pay out left right and centre if several banks go down.
He is being cautious, a little bit here, a little bit there, let's test the water but of course if a single bank goes then those depositors will be safe. Just doesn't want to make sweeping decisions in case it's not necessary and it all blows over.
Wish I'd spread my money though like I was advised. Never thought it would come to this.
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What about the British arms of European banks such as Ing Direct? I know they are covered to the same degree here by FSA but also by the Dutch regs. However, in the event of them going down would our Government prevaricate and try and shove it all onto the Dutch Ing?
FS and I are about the safest at the moment methinks.
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Chuckle. Its an achievement when you can put a pound in the bank and go back and get it. Thats progress for you. We don't have a problem and the age of irresponsibility has passed. Whatever it takes. Think I'll watch an old movie and pretend its not 2008, get rid of that queasiness and stop feeling browned off.
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#21 CarrotsneedaQUANGO2
Great method - those pesky little critters seem to keep on coming, though.
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Gordon Brown should read Robert Peston's blogs. A guarantee of £50,000 on deposits is peanuts to fund managers who move millions between banks. Perhaps Brown will get the message when all the big funds start flowing out of the UK into the 100% security of the Irish banks, and our banks start going belly up. Duh!
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Nick Robinson pressing the right buttons and watching his blog comment rating shoot up again. Isn't he popular! Neither Cameron or brown can take credit as both parties have allowed this to happen. Thatcherite Deregulation Dogma infects this country and is seeping puss all over this once great nation.
There that proves I am not a Derek Draper clone stop this 'hilarious' joke before I split my sides. Perhaps if you find the name for the Lib dem PR bloke on the Internet you can call me a clone of him. Its not like the Conservatives are innocent on the Internet PR front.
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We seem to have an irresponsible government lead by a novice. It must be frustrating being a Civil Servant in Whitehall.
You can tell Gordon Brown, but not a lot.
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Transfer funds to Ireland! Good idea - but suffer the penalties of early withdrawal from Fixed Term savings.
Meant to say above NS and I not FS and I = silly me!
I think Nick tackled Crash Gordon earlier than the latter wanted - ie Crash wanted to make it a plus point at a later date. Vote puller.
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#31 ohsilly-me
True, but he'd have done better still to have supported joining the Euro from day one to limit the risk.
A scheme on the Irish lines with strict nationalistion without compensation for any bank that fails to meet FSA standards may have to happen before too long.
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#25 balhamu wrote:
At the risk of prying into your financial affairs, what are you scared of losing?
This seems to imply you can't imagine anybody with enough savings to worry...!
Your savings should be guaranteed if they are in a bank (if you have less than ?35,000 - soon to be ?50,000). The Government has also shown every sign that it will not let a single retail (high street) bank go bust, and will make sure the taxpayer protects your savings.
Hmm. Everybody thought the US govt would step in every time, and then came Lehman Brothers... With Governments as with investments, past performance is not necessarily a good indication of the future.
I thought pensions funds generally went into safer assets such as bonds or an annuity when you retired (maybe I'm wrong), so you should be ok there (unless you invested some savings in Northern Rock or something).
Oh dear. Our survey said... uh-oh. The "safer assets" were the norm until Gordon Brown noticed that pension funds were an area he hadn't taxed yet. So he slapped a tax on their profits. This - and the effect of compounding the now-reduced funds - more-or-less forced pension funds to chase higher-yielding - but riskier - investments. However they couldn't be seen to buy low-grade investments, and so the insurance-backed CDO/S was born - all the yield of the riskier stuff, without, err, the risk.
Gordon Brown is the prime architect of this crisis (with that pension fund smash-and-grab raid, as well as the bubble-prolonging shared ownership schemes, and so on and so forth) in so many ways.
Never mind an election - we need a coup, now.
The equity you have tied up in your home will decrease, but unless you were a first-time buyer in the previous 10 years that was only a paper fortune anyway.
I'm not even going to bother to comment on this statement - it is so far from the truth for most people as to be laughable. Where do you think all of the "miracle" consumer spending came from? What about the increased cost of upgrading house due to wider spreads? You may be unaffected by this crisis, but most are not.
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At the height of the Northern Rock debacle last year, did that clown Darling not undertake to increase the limit from £35,000 to £100,000?
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Day by day GB is digging an ever deeper hole for himself. His lack of confidence and lack of resolve to take effective action when the answer is staring him in the face is mind blowing.
In all of his budgets his policy has been to effect at once any measure which would disadvantage the electorate whilst delaying any advantageous measures for at least 12 to 18 months.
In a critical situation as we have now you would expect that even he would have the wit to realise that this is a time for immediate action and not prevarication.
God help us.
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It realy gets to me that the banks were overcharging and about to be brought to account when the meltdown hit.
The bankers were fleecing people and they were having a high old time with plenty of golden handshakes.
Now we have to bail them out and they watch as the country goes broke, people with nothing but an average weeks wages who couldn't afford to save are left without employment.
The sheer greed and lack of any morals is disgusting.
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"the government had intervened where necessary and no depositors had yet lost money" gordon brown, alistair darling, other labour ministers (the latest soundbite?)
- british taxpayer's are "depositors" they deposit cash into the government's pockets, whats happening to this?
how much is involved?
which institutions are being given taxpayers money?
is this taxpayer's money already in the coffers or are they planning to borrow more to pay for it?
its all too vague!
which leads to the next point/question:
we keep being told that brown and darling will do "whatever it takes to protect people"
- they never actually tell us how they are "protecting" people?
are they borrowing money?
are they cutting funding across government departments?
is it a combination of both?
what are the timescales for paying money back?
what are the guarantees the taxpayer will get it back?
we dont want soundbites we demand answers.
- a statement to the house of commons should be made on what "protection" has involved.
darling and brown should be there to answer questions from all sides.
"Northern Rock guaranteed the deposits of those people who were saving with Northern Rock," - we saw then exactly how much it cost taxpayers!
"Bradford and Bingley safeguarded the deposits by moving them to Abbey National," - this wasnt brown or darling,it was a cheap buy out of more than £20 BILLION pounds of savings accounts, sold for less than £1 BILLION!
"Halifax Bank of Scotland we moved them to Lloyds TSB." - again brown and darling didnt do this at all... and if this a successful rescue measure by brown,then why did he block his good friend (chairman of lloyds) from buying out northern rock?
once again, brown simply allowed the competition commission to ignore the sale of the bank for a knockdown price.
The final point goes to the FSA, "the deposit guarantee limit we have announced will increase to £50,000 - we have announced it now as the markets are calm!"
absolute classic this one.... biggest falls and increases, in history, 4 times over the last two weeks and the FSA think the markets are "calm"
even brown jumped on the bandwagon saying that "we have raised the threshold to £50,000!"
i dont trust brown one inch with the economy - hes hiding a nasty sting for the taxpayers of the UK further down the line,otherwise hed tell us exactly what hes actually done to sort the mess he and the FSA sat back and allowed to happen.
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BROWN’S SPIN ON HIS BUZZ WORD: STABILITY
BROWN WHEN CHANCELLOR, IN EFFECT, HANDED HIS CONTROL AUTHORITY AND THE STABILITY OF OUR ECONOMY TO UNSCRUPULOUS GREEDY BANKERS IN THE USA A FOREIGN COUNTRY. BY CHANGING THE SYSTEM IN 1997 HE ALLOWED COLLATERAL, BACKED WITH MORTGAGES TO BE TAKEN OUT OF THE PROTECTION AND CONTROL OF BRITISH REGULATION AND JURISDICTION.
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Re 36
Yup.
If Greenspan reckon that the US domestic housing market stablisation is key to recovery and the UK economy is at least in part similar it is very worrying.
Property prices ended up topping out at x6.5 earnings, with x4.5 having been the historical level (over extended period) before the Bubble bath got going.
Prices are dropping but still have some way to go it would seem. There is a lot of exposure due to come. It is not clear where the bottom is, x4.5 or an overshoot lower(x4). Perhaps the bottom is not as low as 4.5 due to the inbuilt property shortage that is already here. I don't think anybody knows.
However wherever it ends up it is going to freeze many in their current house even if they can afford to maintain it which has all sort of implications, labour mobility, disposable income. You can't sell to break out.
The banks must have the some figures and so must the government but who wants to break bad news. The banks only regard people with a 25% deposit as safe. Thats quite a safety margin. That FSA guy looked twitchy, Paulson looks twitchy.
Every time Greenspan speaks the bottom out moves further forward, it fairly rapidly has moved from 2009 to 2010 as a probable pick up point.
The figures tell there has been a great deal of UK remortgaging as a form of asset stripping by housholders, its not just a question of people who entered the market in the last couple of years.
It usually takes about 5 years for a housing market recovery to really get going following a major hit but this level of debt is new ground. Unemployment usually lags a downturn by 3 years and job creation 3 years from an upturn.
Nobody in there right mind would first time buy until the bottom was hit for sure so that is not going to help new blood. The market has frozen over before but there hasnt been this sort of price drop concurrent with it.
If you take the bubble and invert it and say thats whats going to be the environment it is going to be difficult.
I groaned when DC said he had a plan. Much prefered Paul Newmans motto, If we've got a plan we're screwed. How can you have a plan when you don't know what the problem is because you don't know where the bottom is.
Unless we are very lucky - Private sector shrinkage coming followed by public sector cuts. It is not actually going to make much difference who is in charge, even if NuLab come to their senses, the debt still has to be cleared.
If anybody thinks it is only people who entered the housing market recently who are going to have a problem, who knows.
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Re 32
Take it easy, nobody wants you to fall on your dkwilkinson sword
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Someone please sort the software out on this website!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Gordon and David may TRY to take the credit but it will surely backfire as the public catch up with what their favourite (?) politicians HAVEN'T been doing to protect the economy.
Gordon will get a lot of the flak but I don't see the Tories getting an easy ride as they were in power before and it will make tricky economic policy in the future even trickier now.
If there be wolves beneath the Tory sheeps clothing methinks they will show through soon.
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Stop Press - Gurkhas WON at the High Court.
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If left to its own devices the FSA would do everything "eventually"
They will show their teeth when absolutely needed, but other than that they tend to feel that what they do and how they regulate is not the business of politicians or the public and we should leave them alone.
By wording his answer as he did, brown has pushed them onto the back foot - which is exactly the place they should be!
Mr Robinson, sometimes I think you are so keen to look for something to have an opinion about that you miss the screamingly obvious.
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Could it be that Nick is also trying to hang on to his job ?
Even Polly has given up on Gordon but Nick still gets his perks by traveling with Dave (interview on the train with breakfast)
Face it Nick - your gravy train is going to hit the buffers and you won't be top of the rescue list.
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nick well spotted - you have been closely observing G. Brown and I sense that his incompetence is surprising and scaring you. the 'clunking great fist' is revealing itself as being a blunt and blind instrument who is not in control.
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Nick
With brown waffleing on about stability and the such, maybe you could ask him about the major international companies who are moving their HQ's from the UK (many to Ireland).
It make the news on radio 4 this morning, but doesn't seem to have made it onto the website...
The chief exec explained that it was due to concern over labours tax plans.
And not what is in place, but what they THINK will be happening in the near future.
So Brown/Darling have introduced such doubt and instability that these companies are moving offshore because they don't know what the government are up to, but beleive it will be bad.
If that isn't instability, I don't know what is.
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On the PM's interview.
Cameron has nailed him on this one - while Brown spins that it is all OK and there is nothing to worry about - "Trusssttt in meeeee, trusssttttt in meee" he hisses as he squeezes the life out of the country.
Cameron is showing his maturity and telling it as it is -- it is VERY bad, and sorting it out will be VERY UNCOMFORTABLE.
Like Thatcher - there will be *genuinely* difficult decisions to be made to put the country back in order again - the public aren't stupid children (however the socialists treat them) and will put up with pain if it is genuinely required.
And all this melt down is just little preview of what we have to come when the pension crisis really hits -- europe cannot afford the pensions they have promised, and this is a taster of the real meltdown to come.
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#42 Glanafon
You have hit the target.
I am beginning to wonder if it would be better to leave Brown to sort out his own mess. The idea of our "brilliant, most successful Chancellor of the last century" and Prime Minister having to go cap in hand to the IMF would clear up any doubt.
This fiasco will go down in history on par with the South Sea Bubble.
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My view of this story is that it casts light on the characters of politicians, authorities, and the media but I don't think it's especially helpful and a lot of folks have missed the important bits.
The Prime Minister seems more focused on the big picture, and it's not unusual for a fumble of detail like that to be made. I have a similar character type and have a nasty habit of making typos. Cameron's character is much more populist and suffers from intellectual spin. He changes his opinion more than he changes his socks. The regulator isn't terribly exciting but seems to be acting responsibly. Nick is getting some "facts" but suffering from the law of unintended consequences. As with the Northern Rock issue, the media is just barging in and creating more problems.
So, there's lots of ego in here. I'm not too familiar with finance law or regulation but, I think, there's a case that things could be polished and folks could spend less time on tinkering and more on how they execute things. Law and scrutiny can help but also get in the way. The more personal and, arguably, more important issues tend to get lost in the squabble.
Locking people in an empty room until they calm down is probably more useful. Shut up. Do nothing. Be happy. You know the drill.
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The Real Truth - very interesting. I didn't know that about major companies moving lock stock to Ireland. I don't blame them nor am I surprised.
Hasn't anyone noticed that ordinary people, families are moving out too? Thousands are moving abroad and others moving well away from "multi culturalism" in London to Devon, Cornwall etc. Mind you it won't be long before the ghettos set up down there also.
Brown just cannot see the picture - being borne out now with his dithering and lack of stamina and forthrightness in the financial crisis. The only way is up surely? Don't bet on it.....
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#32 dhwilkinson
I agree 100% with your first para in that blame is shared, although with NuLab in power for 11+ years it can hardly be a 50/50 sharing of blame now.
Nobody ever thought you are a Derek Draper clone. The fact that you argue your position rather than simpy rubbish your opposition is testimony to that.
Good for you if you're joining the LibDems. Us Liberals sometimes fear centralising tendencies from their SDP, but at least the LibDems remain consistently in favour of the constitutional and electoral reform which may one day bring democracy to the UK.
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#44 jonathan_cook
If you're talking about the slooooooooow loading of all these flash videos, amen.
If you're having trouble getting special characters to display, don't hold your breath. I reported the problem months ago and got a response confirming it had been passed on to the techies but I'm not holding my breath.
To be fair, that problem, like the ASCII character set itself, is that the software was designed in the USA, where diacritics and funny symbols are virtually unknown. It could be very slow to sort out.
If you're talking about other software problems, can you be more specific?
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32. dhwilkinson:
Thatcherite Deregulation Dogma infects this country and is seeping puss all over this once great nation.
Thatll be the great nation presided over by Harold Wilson and Jim Callahan then will it.
Ahhh the good old days..... sighhhhh
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#47 Gurubear
I'd certainly agree that the FSA should have got involved earlier, but wasn't it "Duff" Gordon & Co. who set it up in the first place?
If so, then it was surely NuLab's responsibility to make sure they were adequately pro-active, and if it doesn't need primary legislation to change the limit, why have the government made such a big deal of it?
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54. flamepatricia
The rot sets in
Martin Sorrell's WPP Group is to leave the UK and shift its British headquarters to Ireland because of changes to the tax regime, which could cost the marketing group tens of millions of pounds.
Just a few more:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/aug/28/ireland.banking
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article4633674.ece
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This is typical of Tory style opportunism and partisan attitudes. I don't see how more Thatcherism is the answer. It's the cause of the problem being sold as the solution. It didn't work last time and won't work this time. The world works in a certain way and no amount of bigging it up or wishful thinking is going to change that.
I can just give my personal view but I've taken steps to relocate out of Britain, mostly, because of the corporate culture and consumerist greed. The thing, here, is the Prime Minister is in a postion to fix things. I'm not. He can't build Rome in a day and unless I get lucky I'm stuck here for now. That sucks but there you go.
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#49 eveadam
Hello, newbie. You're obviously not a Draper clone, but how about giving some input on what you want rather than what you don't?
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"Gordon Brown should read Robert Peston's blogs."
We all should, and his analysis of this point was yesterday.
The HBOS_Lloyds deal was predictably dodgy and now turns out to be definitely dodgy, Cameron jumped into the gap left by Brown's continued hesitancy over deposit guarantees and has scored heavily with it at conference, nationalisation I would hazard the guess looms for HBOS and what looked like salvation for Gordon is looking like anything but. Just when you think he's losing it he gets another grip, but for how long?
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Brown needs to Go. He will lumber and blunder from bad to worse. His rhetoric is repeatative and embarrassing with every opportunity taken to suggest that he is initiating action and leading the U.S and the world on policy and decion making. His personality is flawed and you can see he is self obsessed and depressed. His idea of a light touch would still mean suffocation. this is too high a price to pay for any previously perceived "flashes of genius". A new govt as soon as possible will improve market confidence and stability in this situation, will draw a line under this period of disaster after disaster, and is desperately needed. it will facilitate a mood of pulling together in the country. Gordon is not the solution, he is the problem.
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So its no time for a novice eh? Could I ask we just have someone who knows what is possible rather than someone who seems to lack the basic knowledge for the job ?
And maybe its just me but didn't Cameron at least sound like someone who recognises the seriousness of the situation and is prepared to work with the government who created the regulatory mess to try and fix it ?
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I've seen a few Tories in here hijack stuff now Cameron's lifting my material. I've been talking about stuff like that for as long as I've been posting here and Cameron gets a clue in the last week? His duty is to hold himself to account. That's the bit he doesn't get.
Cameron used emotional bullying to elbow his way to the front of the queue, started assuming an innocent look, and is now projecting an authoritative facade. This is the same dumb and impatient bully he was when he started. I see no change.
The Anglo-Saxon approach beats people down and takes sides. The only way this is going to change is if management respect people and their Tory pals share the wealth. Only another Labour government can deliver that.
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I can only think that putting a limit on the amount of cash the Government is prepared to guarantee in savings and deposits is the possiblilty that those with hundreds of thousands in one financial institution might contemplate taking it out in cash and stuffing it in the mattress! Thus creating a greater squeeze on lending capacity.
The other advantage of putting a limit on the amount the Government is prepared to guarantee is that it may help to spread the resources of all savings, investments and deposits and thereby help to provide more mortgage lending capacity in a greater variety of banks and buildings societies.
Another point to be considered is that those lucky enough to have more than £50,000 in savings, could consider spending it on home improvements and property, portable or otherwise and this would help to boost employment and cash flow in the UK.
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57 carrots..
Yes it was that bunch of loony lefties that allowed the Conservative party to stay in power for 18 years and start the country along its current path.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#53
Spot on CEH - this interview certainly casts light on one particular character - Gordon Brown.
How many times did the man say "let's be honest" ????
First lesson of interaction one learns as an adolescent; if someone says 'honestly', 'let's be honest' or prefixes conversation with any such arning - the implication is he was being dishonest hitherto.
The man doesn't even understand the subject he's talking about; claims these lending practices started inthe states - okay go and get ius the numbers and prove they started in the states; they were going on here concurrently.
He talks about global flows of capital as if this is some new phenomenon - this is a two hundred year old phenomenon and he's supposed to be an ecenomic historian.
He seems to have erased his memory about what happened while he was chancellor of the exchequer.
Listening to this interview closely one can only come to one conclusion; the man is very close to breaking point.
Call an election.
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And the next scoop story to put another nail in the coffin of this government:
"cabinet minister transfers six figure sum to Irish bank account"
The question is...which one(s)?
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Chuck_E_Hogwash @65 wrote:
"I've seen a few Tories in here hijack stuff now Cameron's lifting my material."
Crikey! You are so very modest.
I'm sure that Einstein would have found the unified field theory if only he'd looked at your notes.
Shakespeare would have written some better plays if he'd paid attention to your well-crafted sentences and illuminating perspectives on the human condition.
And if only he'd had a word with you first, God could have created the world in only five days and then we would have longer weekends.....
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glanafon @ 42
I wouldn't worry too much about what the Poodle of Wall Street is saying. He is more responsible than any other single individual for this banking crisis. After the damage he has wreaked, he should be rocking quietly on his porch, rather than "contributing" further.
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#67.
Wasn't it New Labour who demolished the previous regulatory regime, based on sector specialists, and set up the super-regulator, the FSA in 2001?
Wasn't it New Labour who took away banking supervision from the Bank of England and gave it to the FSA?
Isn't the FSA responsbile for financial markets regulation?
Didn't the FSA pick and choose from each of the previous regulatory bodies the rules it wanted to adopt, thereby creating confusion for months on end?
Hasn't Gordon been in charge all this time?
If you are going to cast a net for blame, can you try and be a little bit more accurate please? I don't think that's too much to ask.
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Wake up nick!!!!!! IN LESS THAN 3 YEARS TIME YOU, YES YOU, WILL BE TELLING THE PUBLIC ABOUT THE FORTHCOMING AMERICAN UNION.....CANADA..USA..AND MEXICO WILL BE THE FIRST TO JOIN TOGETHER WITH A NEW CURRENCY CALLED , MAYBE, THE AMERO.......THIS WAS SIGNED IN 2005......FOLLOWED BY OTHER COUNTRIES OF THE AMERICAS....THE AGENDA IS SOOOO BORING...WE LIVE IN A REAL LIFE MATRIX......
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People are overstating the extent of this UK property so called bubble. For many years, the value of property in the UK was depressed by high interest rates and undue restriction of credit. To get a mortgage in the old days, you used to have to go see your bank manager and virtually plead for the loan. Then, if he felt you were the right type, he might just give you one. In recent years, we have gone too far the other way (in particular with self cert and multiple BTL) but no way do we want to return to how it was.
Common mistake is to see average earnings as how best to value property. Not the case. To value a property, you take the rental income generated (or saved by buying instead of renting) and then you discount that expected future cash flow (in perpetuity) at an appropriate discount rate. The best discount rate to use is the rate at which mortgage finance is generally available.
Aside from the excesses of self cert and multiple BTL, the rise in the UK property market over the last few years has been a perfectly rational bidding up of prices in response to lower interest rates and the democratisation of credit. The problem is that those interest rates have been too low for too long ... courtesy of absurdly lax monetary policy from what is effectively the World's Central Bank, the Fed.
As soon as mortgage finance, at reasonable rates, becomes readily available again (but without the self cert and multiple BTL nonsense), property values will recover and stabilise at about 2006 prices. They will then start climbing again as fundamentals like increasing demand and limited supply kick in. In due course, we will look back on this period as delivering a modest and healthy downward correction. It's really nothing much to worry about in the context of the much larger upward correction in the years previous.
Please let's not get swept along with a misconception, just because everyone is now chuntering the same thing ... as regards the UK housing market, we've had a boom but not a bubble ... and this is not a bust.
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#65
Nurse another sedative for Charlie Please!
What are you rambling on about?
You are right in the past we have seen attempts at sincerity from leader before that do rankle who could forget Blairs
"I...We...the Government drivel."
or Browns hankering as having a Puritan and holier than thou past.
Both have claimed to be "pretty honest/straight guys". Both have been proven liars.
Cameron does not have to anything more than provide an opposition to government until 2010.
Anything he says or does is rhetroic as he has no ability to action them to date. The government however DOES! This is where they are found wanting, and this is what they don't get.
We have had emotional bullying too from labour.
in the past. Everything from the ridiculous hand wringing and pleading from Blair with a teary eye stanging the absoulte need to send young men and women to thier deaths (not to mention the thousands of innocent civillians) in Iraq.
This in addition to Browns incomprehensible need to lock people up with no charge for 42 days. As we now live under a terrorist threat (what has changed since 1968, or are Islamic Terrorist slightly worse than Irish ones? racsist if you like on the governments part) This counrty has always been under terrorist threat, check out the gun powder plot!
So spare up the hard done by socialist line!
Last one, it is with pride that I look at this country as an Anglo-Saxon one. It is true we have lost our way by way of hankering to an ungrateful and selfish, self made underclass. Which includes the must have it now generation. They have largely caused the downturn in society with the notion that it is always someone elses fault, and not being accountable for thier actions.
Life is tough, and there are those who must be cared for, the infirm, young, elderly, and those who absoultely cannot support themselves, whether, a single parent or family carer. These people of course must be supported properly (which I personnally am not convinced is the present case anyway).
However the rest must bite the bullet, and hey! do without SKY and a PS3, or save up for one! rather than being given one as an incentive to be a good citizen. This is not poverty! Wake up and do something yourself. It is possible.
It is sad that as a last refuge from a disgruntled Labourite it to state the case of Tory Toff and thier rich pals.
Blair, Harmon and a large majority of the goverment with the notable exception of Alan Johnson, have been born with silver spoons in thier supercillious gobs.
More ironically is the fact that this goverment has sent us into more campaigns (legal or otherwise) than any other government since World War 2 (more cost and bad reputation world wide).
If it was a matter for Labour and Conservative to stack up morally where would labour stand. I know of no Labour MP who have served in the forces. (They don't even show up when our dead arrive from the middle east). I can think of at least 4 High Profile Tories who have.
Time for a change and put some moral fibre into the country!
Goodbye Labour!
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67. dhwilkinson
Precisely. you hit the nail right on the head.
One extreme from of politics leads to another, in fact it becomes a requirement in order to correct matters.
That is exactly why we dont need another 5 years of Browns socialism.
Put him in power for another term and the counrty will be praying for Thatcher to return.
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65. Charles_E_Hardwidge
You dont half write some dross.
You accuse Cameron of being a bully but support Brown.
Now thats a classic.
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65.Charles_E_Hardwidge wrote:
I've seen a few Tories in here hijack stuff now Cameron's lifting my material
Just thought it was worth repeating.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I doubt that very much. This blog is full of "experts" and "insiders" but they couldn't hit the target with a sawn-off. Seen it all before on game forums. This place is no different.
If anyone from Downing Street actually bothers to read this stuff they probably roll their eyes or beat the floor laughing. As always, it's probably better to focus on your own politics and reputation.
[Insert gratuitous Zen comment here]
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Nick,
1. This was Conservative policy and has been on their web site for ages
2. The Conservatives have been offering to implement this with Brown for a long while and until now have had no response from the government.
3. Brown has been dithering, he could have had first mover advantage. Instead he will now come under pressure to match the Irish 100% savings guarantee. If he had moved far earlier he could have rejected calls to match the Irish - since he could have claimed to have taken early and decisive action which was sufficient.
4. It was an obvious step to have taken months ago. If people do not feel secure with their savings they will remove it from the bank - and that causes poor liquidity and a run on a bank
It is time for 'Notta-Novice Brown' to hand over to the newcomers - who clearly have a better idea of what to do than Gordon.
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Simon Jenkins uses more words but comes to a similar conclusion in todays Guardian. It's also interesting to note that the CBI and their Tory pals are bankrolling protests against the NHS because it harms their profits.
Just the facts, dear.
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To MaxSceptic..your post @ 77 is pure brilliance..On a gloomy day i am still laughing
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To MaxSceptic.. your post @ 72 is pure brilliance..On a gloomy day i am still laughing
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Sounds to me that good old Gordon is doing what he always does: making it up as he goes along. I mean, just look at him, this 'great' leader with all this economic competence. What a joke. I think they call it 'firefighting' in some circles, doing the best you can in dire circumstances. Pretty tragic really watching him parade around the global stage peddling his 'economic credentials' after effectively turning UKplc into a basketcase. What a mess. The things some politicians do to look statesmanlike. Read the other day he gave his suit to some charity thing to be auctioned off, how come: the emperor has no clothes.
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Nick, please, remove that "Click to Play" box. Yesterday in jest I wrote it was to bug us all, shades of Big Brother, but it really is a pain. It slows down the computer and blocks script. Does anybody else find problems?
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80. At 10:42am on 01 Oct 2008, CarrotsneedaQUANGO2 wrote:
65.Charles_E_Hardwidge wrote:
I've seen a few Tories in here hijack stuff now Cameron's lifting my material
Just thought it was worth repeating.
Thanks Carrot for warning us all. I usually suffer from repeating when I've eaten unpalatable food. The next stage is actually vomiting, so it seems Brown has been pinching Charlie's ideas too!
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Hi Nick,
Could you raise another aspect of the deposit guarantee issue please?
I am a director in a SME business, and a prudent one, ie. I manage the cash well, work hard and don't spend unnecessarily (boring some may say!) and certainly don't speculate with or throw other people's money away. So the company pension scheme has cash (wise, wasn't it, rather than do what advisors told to buy property or shares?), and so does the company. Great, you might say, but as I have been finding out, there is NO protection to savings on a company or pension fund account. True? Does the Irish deal cover all savings regardless of entity?
1) The issue I want you to raise is pension fund savings and deposit - they should be protected.
2) Business savings accounts should be protected too. It is quite an awful scenario to think you are in a great position for a donwturn, just having all company cash reserves being lost due to banks.
What do you think?
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Charles
I am assuming you are using some kind of
ZEN!
random word generator, as you make no sense at all.
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As the comdian Frankie Boyle stated
Sarah Browns diary must read.
Tuesday.....stayed in.....Gordon cried.
Pa ha ha
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#72 MaxSceptic
ROFL
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#82
I know my own antennae thanks, Chuck and I am putting money on him being gone by Christmas. He's toast. It's in every answer to every question; evasion and blaming and dithering and defeat.
Good news is Nick didn't let him off the hook about not answering questions properly.
Well played.
Thanks for your comments CEH but I seem to remember you being similarly bullish about Peter Hain's prospects shortly before he was driven away in a little white van.
Perhaps you'd like to offer me odds on him still being in office by Christmas if you are so sure.
Clall an election.
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Re Cameron is lifting my ideas at 65. Does the 'E' stand for 'Ealing', as in one stop short of 'Barking' on the tube .
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82: Zenmaster
Put one in on your next post Charles: we just love the Zen stuff.
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#74 TerryNo2
What you say is largely true but be fair - in #67 dhwilkinson was actually being critical of old Labour's Wilson / Callaghan government for letting Thatcher in.
Had Callaghan listened to the group that left Labour to form the SDP or kept the Liberals onside with electoral reform, the past couple of decades would have been very different.
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Eve @ 63
I kind of agree.
The policies are nothing terrible but it's the man, isn't it? ... rather sets one's teeth on edge, doesn't he?
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54. At 08:26am on 01 Oct 2008, flamepatricia wrote:
Hasn't anyone noticed that ordinary people, families are moving out too? Thousands are moving abroad and others moving well away from "multi culturalism" in London to Devon, Cornwall etc. Mind you it won't be long before the ghettos set up down there also.
I agree with you, but you are lucky the moderators let this pass. Ever heard of bussing?
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This is the essence of mastery but before you get to that point you have to know what you're about. Some folks, like Cameron, confuse this with mere rules and sentiments but it's not the same thing. If Cameron had a clue he would know this, and unless he does he will remain a duffer.
The man who is scared of death has already given up their own life, etcetera.
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#84 Charles
Well quite, if I was looking for an unbiased opionion, I too would look to Simon Jenkins Author of Tory Tory Tory, or Andrew Marr, Our own dear nick of even Swampy.
Don't call me dear, I hardly know you, and you haven't even bought me a drink.
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#76 sagamix
Good post, and I agree that property prices will recover fairly quickly once the self-cert and BTL issues are resolved and the banks are returned to some sort of sanity - probably by a few more nationalisations, hopefully without compensation to the shareholders.
The only factor which might change that would be a major social housing construction program. I can't see any major party going back to building council houses, but they all should look at the Swiss model, where there are two separate private sector markets.
To qualify for the cheaper one you need to be a long-term permanent resident and have a relatively low income per family member. You then pay a much lower rent effectively subsidized by tax-breaks on the companies which build and manage them. As with the UK system, there are also planning quotas which ensure that a proportion of most developments include both markets.
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88 Phoenixarisen:
Yeah, these embedded clips are annoying. They're everywhere these days. That's why I use the Firefox browser with the flashblock extension. It lets you control the clips and keeps your computer running nicely.
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Silent at 85 and 86
Never mind about Max, what about my posts? Aren't they brilliant too? Don't they also make you laugh on a gloomy day?
It's nice for you to gain pleasure from the contribution of others but I'm a little bit hurt that I don't feature.
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#81
My comment on poster #68 got referred to the mods.
#68 compared the PM to a well-known serial killer.
I said this was quite an offensive comment, especially from people who get apoplectic about the Labour Party referring to Cameron as 'a toff'.
Don't understand how this got referred, yet the comparison with the serial killer (and other similar comparisons of the PM to mass-murderers and dictators) get through without fail.
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Here's some policy they can have from me free of charge
1. Force the banks to provide liquidity to one another. Don't just pump the market full of cash, it will get eaten up and disappear. Make it a banking rule they have to issue x% at the end of the day to the money markets
2. Don't repossess houses, allow people to pay a rent so that the housing stock doesn't collapse and the market self implodes. Make this a rule for the banks to adopt as well
3. Savings need assurance that they are safe. If there is a danger then the Bank of England will step in and shore up any failing bank so effectively they are safe and nobody is going to be losing money. Unfortunately Gordon is so shifty nobody believed him!
4. Make bankers at the bank of England in charge of looking after the regulation for banks and make it possible for them to strip licences and prosecute bad behaviour. The FSA is too wishy washy and we are still waiting for legal proceedings against the directors of Northern Rock - but wait if that happened it would implicate the FSA as being duplicitous!
5. CUT GOVERNMENT SPENDING AND BORROWING!!!
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Now we know Gordon is going and a new regime will come in to sweep awy his detritus I think it is time we had some new 'targets'
All government advisors and quangos should be cut by 85% by 2010.
Efficiency improvement of 20% should be delivered by 2010 in every area of the publi sector.
Where efficiency imporvements are said to be not possible public sector bodies are to cut 20% fo the workforce and assume the extra owrkload themselves for the same pay. This will be the equivalent of the aforementioned 20% efficiency gains.
Incapacity benefit should be cut by the end of the year to zero and replaced by 'workshy benefit'. Those on workshy benefit shall be issued with a workshy benefits book to claim their benefits from their local supermarkets where a special 'WORKSHY' till will be set up in the middle of the supermarket for the workshy to claim.
Tax will be immediately cut to a basic rate of 10% on all earned income starting form a new threshold of 30,000 pounds.
All NHS managers and business consultants will be made redundant.
A new airport will be built in the Thames estuary with a high speed link inot London and form their high spped links to leeds, Birmingham and Manchester withing five years.
Heathrow will be closed to domestic flights and terminals one two three and four will be shut down by 2015 leaving only terminal five with comensurate passnger numbers. ALll other passengers will be rerouted to the new Boris Johnson International airport in the Thames estuary.
Ken Livingstone will be offered a free flight and a passport for Venezuela.
Gordon Brown will be offered a retirement cottage on the Mull of Kintyre an an annual tour of the Western isles. He will be given no pension but instead invitd to eat the left overs of others and live strictly as a son of the manse.
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Re 90
City old boy on News, who has a record of getting it right, was not that impressed with the Irish. Said Ireland had similar problems to UK, in his opinon worse, and smaller population. Pointed out Ulster Bank (20% of Irish market) owned by RBS, hence RBS shares down today. Clip probably on BBC website somewhere.
Too many open channels for problems to flow through? It comes back to BnB stating they were viable and in a strong trading position 3 days before fold. Info seems to be suspect until proven otherwise.
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#88 Phoenixarisen
It's still an absolute pain to load. ANY page with embedded flash is bound to be slow to load and this one is worse than most because the video is so long.
Very poor page design, especially as it's in at least 3 places on the BBC website. A small picture and a clickable link to the video would be fine, but NOBODY wants to re-watch the video EVERY time they visit this page or post a comment.
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#94 RobinJD
LOL but maybe you ought to offer odds on who else and the process of removal - little white van man could have quite a bit of yuletide trade.
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#105 balhamu
You are right, however the Prime Ministers both Blair and Brown were in part responsible for the deaths of thousands of Iraqi civilians.
Remember the guns not the murderer it's those who pull the trigger.
define serial killer.
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Browne @ 102
Mmmm, social housing ... we have to have it because many people can't afford a market price (or rent) for somewhere decent to live.
On the banks, I'm rooting either for proper nationalisation (none of this bailout nonsense, thank you very much) or letting them fail.
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#103 doctor-gloom
Thanks for the advice which I'll follow.
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#105 balhamu
"Don't understand how this got referred"
Anyone registered can refer any post to the mods and it's shown as such - like your #68 - until the mods have had chance to review it (usually slow at lunchtimes). If they disagree with the complaint they'll resurrect it. If they agree, it'll show a "removed for breaking house rules" message and they'll email it back to you with a mild ticking off.
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Balham @ 105
Occasionally, a comment will get referred just because another poster wants it to disappear. I'll demonstrate that in around half an hour by complaining about my own rather anodyne post # 98 ... good job we don't all do that otherwise they'd be very little left!
Hey, doesn't Max remind you a little of Ted Bundy sometimes?
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PMSL @ flamepatricia
Anyone else see the irony of those complaining about imigration emigrating, you couldnt make it up
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Here we go again, Cameron about to deliver that popular tory speech.
Difficult times ahead speech (which means, tories glory in tax cuts) honestly, you couldn't make it up, young Cameron and co, will use the global down turn to favour the
tories key objectives.
Slash the tax for the top 20%
Shrink the public sector
undermine state education
under value workers pay and conditions
privatise as much as possible
Divide and split the EU
Create havo in the suburbs, by giving police to much power
create mass unemployment
Let any future banks that fail, just go down
Put the future of the union in serious doubt
End sure start
End tax credit
End nursery place for all 4 year olds
Shrink the NHS
......................................................................
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Has someone "upgraded" the BBC blogging software recently? Why can't I post comments?
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#111
So you are saying Brown is a serial killer?
Just to clarify.
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# 107
Gee Robin, that is one hard headed manifesto you have there ... who on earth are you going to vote for?
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If I were lucky enough to have more than 35 big ones in savings I would be very worried right now.
If GB really believes it when he says that nobody's savings are at risk, why not simply offer an unlimited guarantee? The fact he's not willing to do that speaks volumes.
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Ah, that's why I couldn't post. "35 big ones" is OK, but a common shorthand version of that including the numbers 3 and 5 and the letter between J and L is apparently a profanity. How strange.
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More rot setting in
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And the wealth flows out.
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Please can someone tell the BTP that it's okay for them to get on the right side of the occasional issue ... I mean, it's not as if the sky is going to fall in or anything, if they do that.
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mmmm… sound familiar ?
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#111
I'm saying clowns like Brown and Blair ARE directly responsible for every death our Forces have had and caused in Iraq. What you call it is up to you. It's the murder of a lot of innocents. I call it murder.
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Have to say I agree about the video clips. What really is the need? Even a fairly zippy desktop hangs a bit. One can always link to the article.
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Re 102, and 76
I hope you are right
To buy a house you either need cash or to borrow money, a mortgage. The mortgage is based on a multiple of your income. Therefore the house you can afford is based on your income, and interest rates affect repayment affordability. The market price of a property is linked to demand and turnover at 2 to 2.3% of stock give a stable market, if demand rises then prices rise until the price is no longer affordable. Demand is considered to be pent up and high and may be exacerbated by a lack of building, however it is not clear what is going to happen. The housing market recovery is related to the economy recovery. Nobody invests if they are worried about their job.
The rise in property values was clearly related to artificially high multiples of income being available. The public demand is a return to more traditional ratios and regulation is likely to ensure it. Take that recent dodgy mortgage supply out of the equation and property prices will drop back to a lower level. Market downward adjustments are crude and overshoot. Market recovery can then vary. Housing shortages could be reduced by all sorts of mechanisms eg all the migrants returning home, cheap rapid building.
A market fails when there is no reaction to price drops, ie an item eg a house has a value and trying to sell it below that value still will not make a sale.
If you really believe in a quick rebound and stablitity at 2006 levels then the best thing is to go out soon and buy some cheap properties with borrowed money and make a profit. Thats the crunch, putting money down. If your not prepared to do that then your confidence is misplaced, because that is what you are expecting other people to do.
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Carrots@78
"One extreme form of politcs leads to another, in fact it becomes a requirement in order to correct matters."
Dont agree with that. It may be what happens, but it is not what is needed. We need whats best for the country rather than see-saw political dogma.
New labour is watered down thatcherism. We need to recognise its time to rid this country of thatcherite deregulate privatise dogma as well as 70s/80s loony left dogma of nationalising everything. the fuss over bank privatisation. proves that the conservatives are more interested in dogma than whats best for the country.
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#127
ok, glad we got that sorted.
what's a toff?
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When you're about to face your maker, it's not the things you've done that you regret, but the things you haven't done.
That's the old saying but I have to wonder whether it's really true. Surely with serial killers, for example, the opposite would be the case?
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Glan @ 129
Yes, I think that will happen if prices fall by, say, another 10 pc from here.
That's a good point you make about the clamour for a return to the "good old days" of it being extremely difficult to get a mortgage, and to very conservative multiples. If we go too far that way, it will depress prices long term.
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133
You think serial killers are rational then.
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130. dhwilkinson
Whats required is subjective, youre a socialist and think the state should take control, level everything and provide for everyone.
That does not sit well with the English as a nation.
The British just dont do public sector provision very well, so it fails. The solution (as sagamix argues on education) is always to dumb down excellence and throw more money at the problem.
You end up with a huge, state run, inefficient and wasteful machine.
Socialists are happy with this cos everyone is in the doo doo together.
The capitalists, well they just shut down their businesses and leave for Switzerland.
Looks like its happening
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131
Take your pick, Tory Cabinet, Labour Cabinet. No real difference.
Prefer the Tory one myself.
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132 Then you could be quoting Blair then, as he KNOWS that what he has done is right.
And God will judge him. To be honest the majority of the country have already done that.
History next then God.
if he was mudered by a serial killer would that be countryside?
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BBC - your software is doing weird things and behaving very badly.
.......... maybe your techies should check the new upgrade to allow Derek Drapers 'Blog Rebuttal unit', to moderate this web-site from their Blackberries?
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Have failed to get my post # 98 taken down so, not for the first time, one of my theories is shown to be wide of the mark.
Thoroughly looking forward to Dunkin' Dave Cameron's speech later on this afternoon. I think he'll wear a dark grey suit with a white shirt and a fairly sober sort of tie. I see the knot of his tie being a touch thinner than has been the fashion in recent times.
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Its funny to see Brown reporting Ireland to the EU.
Brown was happy to waive UK competition law for the Lloyds/HSBC deal.
Now he cries foul when another country puts it house in order?
I think he is just furious that everyone can see that a simple solution was available all along...
He just wasn't clever enough to spot it, so has wasted time, effort and (our) money on his own stupid, failing plans.
Brown has rubbished his internal competition - he has always been a cukoo. So all that is left is for labour to step aside and have a general election immediately.
As brown sees 'difficult times' are the only protection for his position, he hardly has an incentive to steer us clear of them has he?
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Carrots @ 135
No, I can't let that go.
Excellent state schools, available to all, rigorous teaching standards, challenging exams, mix of academic and vocational to suit the child, parental money no longer relevant.
No way a dumbing down. A breaking free is how I'd put it.
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re 133
A drop in property from x6.5 to x4.5 earnings is roughly -30% down. Your -10% drop from today plus falls from 2007 are probably -25%. Your gut reaction is not a million miles away. Might still be high, nobody knows.
General note - post the other day said ampersands a problem on posts. treated as offensive. Could be if used by a politican, as in lies ampersand statistics, or Bradford ampersand Bingley.
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#137
You are very good at getting things that break the rules through the moderators.
"If he was murdered by a serial killer, would that be countryside?"
Very good!
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Glan @ 134
Mmmm, that's the 64 million dollar question, isn't it? ... I will ask the next one I meet and report back.
What do you think, Harry?
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117
1. Difficult time ahead etc.
Rubbish, they are simply saying that we stop spending money we dont have
2. Slash taxes for top 20%
No they won't raise taxes on the bottom 20% when they doubled the rate from 10-20% on the lowest paid
3. Slash public sector
Who is it that is giving public sector workers 2% when inflation is 5% and rising, so much for an affordable public sector when you have to cut wages to pay for it
4. Undervalue workers pay
Who let in 1 million peopleto do just that
5. Privatise
Who is allowing the setting up of private companies to do operations taking money away from the NHS
6. Create havoc with police powers
3000 new offences, ID cards stasi like powers to binmen etc
7 Unemployment
2 million and rising
Do you want me to continue?
All this and more in the last 11 years from GB et al
get rid of now
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137
Nobody needs a politican with an army who thinks he can talk to God. War, funny can't remember that in the manifesto.
Bush Blair Brown, no more BBBBB's please.
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#135
Carrots, you are a proper little corporal.
Where do you get your idea that wealth is created by the capitalist, who have clearly caused so much trouble.
For "GOD SAKE" are you suggesting that if greedy profiteers dont get their way, they should up sticks and leave?
What on earth possess you to think that private education is(in your words) 3 - 4 times better than state education?
Wow! your demeaning notion that middle England and the little hobbits are anti public sector....Is beyond belief..
You are blind to the current down turn
If, like you have said in previous posts, that you have your own business, then I think its only a matter of time before you go to the wall.......I'm sure your employees have seious doubts about your state of control.
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139
Ties are all clip-ons these days incase somebody gets too close to them.
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#139
Yes, far better than the knots in Gordon Brown's ties.
It's these kind of knots that have put our country is such a mess. FACT
Call an election now.
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117. derekbarker wrote:
"Here we go again, Cameron about to deliver that popular tory speech".
Perhaps you had better actually LISTEN to the speech instead of pre-judging it by your own small minded and very bigoted views
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144
Most have frontal lobe damage gained in childhood but doesnt explain all. Appears most are disturbingly normal superficially so by all means report back. Interesting how you are going to undertake survey. Hello are you a nutter in the community. If no report filed all will assume you have found one.
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#150
Nonsense.......the one mode tory party
that is thatcherism......never does change?
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to #116 redonthebed
PMSL @ flamepatricia
Anyone else see the irony of those complaining about imigration emigrating, you couldnt make it up...
You just don't get it to you, In general when most people emigrate because they are hacked off with life here or just plain seeking a better life they go as self-sufficient people.
Pensioners or workers don't go to Spain or Saudi and demand a free house, free schooling for kids to CofE standards, oh and whilst you are at it can you build me a church for free as well. If you could throw in Legal aid, Health care and enough cash to buy a car and do you mind awfully if I bring every single one of my relatives in with me. You are so kind...
And Countries like Saudi and Spain are not stupid enough to give all of that like we are forced to here by the liberal left wing.
First safe haven...my backside. Geography does not go Somalia / Sudan / London. Or is it Iran / Kazakhstan / Southall. All those extra stops on the tube must be interesting for the night shift.
Get a grip.
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Re the complaints about embedded video clips - get firefox and flashblock addon - you then choose to see view video manually - it does not start automatically.
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Gordon Brown needs to go - all this talk of experience from a politics lecturer and TV producer is rot (GB's jobs before entering politics).
Anyway GB did his best stuff in the early years (minimum wage, BOE independence, cutting borrowing and national debt) - and this was when he was the novice.
It was only 2002 onwards that he started pulling the wheels off the UK economy.
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sagamix @115 wrote:
"Hey, doesn't Max remind you a little of Ted Bundy sometimes?"
Hmmmm.... why Ted Bundy?
I'm not into necrophilia. If I was I might 'fancy' that 'twitching corpse' (Brown as labeled by Vincent 'Killer' Cable).
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Georgina @ 153
It's true that we have to be careful about overcrowding on this sceptred isle of ours.
I advocate a "one in one out" policy ... i.e. for every immigrant we allow to enter, we eject one intolerant, small minded native bigot.
What do you think?
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Max @ 156
Just messing about! ... hey, Ted was a bit of a looker, they say, so there's definitely worse things to be called.
Yes, Old Vince is very much THE MAN at the moment, isn't he? ... has a politician ever enjoyed such universal acclaim? Remarkable.
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Sigh. Brown promised this after Northern Rock. As usual, he did nothing, and so we - as usual - get another unimplemented policy announced again.
Does he think we are morons?
General Election NOW.
Brown is a traitor.
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''Yes, Old Vince is very much THE MAN at the moment, isn't he? ... has a politician ever enjoyed such universal acclaim? Remarkable.''
-------------------------
Do you think they will issue Vince 'the man' Cable posters? I was just thinking that that would be one I would stick on my wall. He is the only member of the oppostion parties who has been able to give analysis without spin. I listened to George Osborne, and although he had something to say, it was like finding the back of an earing in a city - too much about what you are not, what you don't like, what you wouldn't do, that the 'look what Labour have done' just appears to be a smoke-screen, or just smoke (?). Osbourne is too smug and too simplistic, and he was like that before the current crisis. Tory's just seem to be cashing in a bit. I didn't vote Labour last time, but watching the Tory's has determined that they won't be my coffin of choice. Too heterosexist and nation-state in a devolved and 'varied' society.
Oh, if Osbourne was half the man that Vincey was...
Shame about spin-Cleggy, really. A young man can talk a silver-fox out of the running, I fear.
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sagamix @158.
Not offended. Besides, I never censor anyone - or 'refer them to the moderators'. (Unlike the unspeakable person who 'shopped' me because I likened Gordo's bedside manner to that of Hyde's most famous GP).
Vince has a certain gravitas. He has a nice way with words and is a nifty dancer (apparently). He's a good lieutenant rather than a captain, but none the worse for that. His politics, however, are not my cup of tea.
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147. derekbarker wrote:
Where do you get your idea that wealth is created by the capitalist, who have clearly caused so much trouble.
OK derek if its not the capitalists creating the wealth, who is it?
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147 derekbarker
"What on earth possess you to think that private education is(in your words) 3 - 4 times better than state education?"
I can vouch for the fact that private education is much much better than state education, because I've had both.
I've had all possible types of education (for various reasons) - comprehensive, grammar, private, and public, and I can tell you beyond any shadow of a doubt that anything, absolutely anything, is better than a comprehensive education.
You might not like that, but it's a fact of life. Compared to private education, comprehensive education is horrifically bad.
This is mostly because in comprehensives the teachers try to treat all the kids the same regardless of ability, which drags everyone down to the lowest level. Whereas in private schools the teachers tailor things to suit the abilities of each child. The difference in the standard of education that that creates is mind-blowingly huge.
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141. sagamix
Sound great, and if that was the reality of socialism we would all sign up.
Your ideal sounds great, but why do you need to prevent parents opting out of a system of preproven excellence in order to deliver the same quality to state children.
Your only reason for needing to do this can be to lower the bar so that your state school doesnt have competition.
That is called dumbing down in my world.
How about this fo an idea.
Raise the states standards to a level where people decide to opt back in and dont have to pay 150 grand per child to opt out.
Just a crazy thought.
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#162
OK carrots, if you insist!
The workers create the wealth > stupid!
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147. derekbarker
What on earth possess you to think that private education is(in your words) 3 - 4 times better than state education?
this does
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165. derekbarker
Ill have to discuss your theory with the board on Tuesday and get back to you.
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135 carrots...
"...Whats required is subjective, you're a socialist and think the state should take control, level everything and provide for everyone.That does not sit well with the English as a nation...."
Like Andrew Marrs interview style you just have to sit back and let the words speak for themselves.
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Carrots @ 164
Yes, I hear that quite often. Raise the standard of state schools so much that only a fool would opt out. I'd like it if that could work ... it would be quite painless then, wouldn't it?
Being a reluctant pragmatist on this, however, I'm pretty sure that as long as you allow the wealthiest and most influential members of society to opt out and use their money instead, you will never achieve the goal. Or, to put it in a more positive way, if you tie those self same people into the common cause, the goal WILL be achieved for sure.
For me, as they say over there at L'Oriel ... we're worth it.
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#167
Carrots...stop kinding yourself on......
we all know you have a problem!!!!!!!
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Carrots@21
Very funny! I see you like Star Trek. I saw this and thought of you.
Public sector workers? where's the profit?
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dhwilkinson
Haha ... nice..
Ahhh five Stages of Acquisition:
Infatuation
Justification
Appropriation
Obsession
Resale
Sounds like our housing market.
Beware they are already amonst us
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