Rebel tactics
Under Labour's rules the hurdle facing those who want to force their leader out is very high. They have to get 70 Labour MPs to sign the nomination papers for a rival candidate. They cannot merely ask for a leadership contest or cast a vote of no confidence in their current leader. So, what's going on?
A small group of Labour MPs have grown frustrated that the party's leadership - in the Cabinet and the unions - cooled on the idea of a coup over the summer. So, they are trying to create momentum for a contest which will either flush out a rival to Gordon Brown or force him to call a "back me or sack me" contest.
Their tactic - for now - is to demand that the party sends out leadership nomination papers to all Labour MPs rather than just those who request them. Brown's aides claim - with some glee - that it was plotter in chief, Charles Clarke, who stopped the practice of circulating them when he was Labour Party chair.
They know that they don't currently have 70 Labour MPs willing to trigger a contest or agreement on who they should nominate to succeed. However, they also know that many MPs share their doubts about Brown and were waiting to see which the wind blew. Finally, they know the lesson of recent history (during the attempted coup against Tony Blair two years ago) that if enough people kick up a fuss they can force change whatever the rules say.
I'm 
© MMX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~39~RS~)
Comments
Sign in or register to comment.
All of this in-fighting is futile: there's only one thing that can save Labour now.
Gordon Brown could survive to win the next election if Argentina launched an attack on Port Stanley, and if we sailed a task force down there, sunk a few ships and chucked them out.
If Gordon stood on a tank and waved a union jack, we'd all cheer and throw votes at him. Apart from that chance, it's curtains for Labour at the next election, so they might as get used to it.
Complain about this comment
Thing is Nick these things have a way of escalating. Like an iceberg. Not much to see above water but plenty down below. Give it time. There's plenty more misery out there in the party to surface yet.
Complain about this comment
I just think it's a shame that the great British public can't throw out such a useless waste of space as easily!
The only possible way the Liebore party can salvage anything resembling dignity is to call an immediate general election - this way they'll at least demonstrate that they are "listening" to the electorate, as they often like to trumpet.
All these inner-party playground tactics just show them all up for being the overgrown schoolkids that they are. The only consolation we have is that they'll only serve to make Liebore unelectable for even longer once they finally get kicked out of Westminster, assuming there's even a country left to run once they've finished with us.
Complain about this comment
It must be getting very crowded, hot and sticky in the bunker these days. Not long to go before it implodes!
Complain about this comment
#1
I'm sure the idea of orchestrating another conflict to appeal to people's patriotism has already been brought up at the Spin Doctor HQ - I guess in this respect we should be thankful that they've already managed to bankrupt us by now otherwise it would probably already have been done.
Complain about this comment
I thought President Bush was bad.
Anybody but him, I though to myself.
Then arrrived Prime Minister Brown.
I thought Brown was terrible.
Please, anybody but him.
Tough on us Brits.
Now to put in into real context consider Sarah Palin. As the Donna Summer song goes, "when I am bad, I am realy really bad". God Bless America!
ps Gordon, please go before you are run over by a mob.
Complain about this comment
Why does it take two women to have more balls than male MP's?
Is this the end or some PR stunt to grab headlines (5)?
The dials on my old cat's whisker have never been hotter!
Whom is to 'win'?
Complain about this comment
Under Labour's rules the hurdle facing those who want to force their leader out is very high. They have to get 70 Labour MPs to sign the nomination papers for a rival candidate.
70MPs? Gordon will be like Arthur Scargill after 2010 in that case. They'll never get rid of him. They may never have 70 MPs again.
Gordon Brown. Leader of the Labour Party. For Life.
How is Arthur Scargill these days? Still not enobled?
Complain about this comment
The fact that Charles Clarke is causing GB trouble should be no big surprise to anyone. What is interesting here is that GB clearly doesn't believe the old maxim "keep your friends close, but your enemies closer still". It is also obvious that GBs 'policies' are so poorly thought through and communicated that they don't mean anything to a significant proportion of the Labour party, let alone the electorate. Given this, what hope does Labour have the the next election?
Complain about this comment
Whilst we're here, and I know it got posted yesterday, but I just thought I'd remind everyone of these promises from Liebore's manifesto from 1997 - it would be funny were it not so tragic:
The myth that the solution to every problem is increased spending has been comprehensively dispelled under the Conservatives. Spending has risen. But more spending has brought neither greater fairness nor less poverty. Quite the reverse - our society is more divided than it has been for generations. The level of public spending is no longer the best measure of the effectiveness of government action in the public interest. It is what money is actually spent on that counts more than how much money is spent.
The national debt has doubled under John Major. The public finances remain weak. A new Labour government will give immediate high priority to seeing how public money can be better used.
New Labour will be wise spenders, not big spenders
Save to invest is our approach, not tax and spend.
New Labour will establish a new trust on tax with the British people.
Our long-term objective is a lower starting rate of income tax of ten pence in the pound.
We will examine the interaction of the tax and benefits systems so that they can be streamlined and modernised.
We will enforce the 'golden rule' of public spending - over the economic cycle, we will only borrow to invest and not to fund current expenditure.
We will ensure that - over the economic cycle - public debt as a proportion of national income is at a stable and prudent level.
Small business: We will cut unnecessary red tape.
We will be tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime
Police on the beat not pushing paper
Crackdown on petty crimes and neighbourhood disorder
Protect the basic state pension and promote secure second pensions.
We will reject the boom and bust policies which caused the collapse of the housing market.
We will reform party funding to end sleaze
Complain about this comment
To be honest this period of government inaction and relatively low-budget 'fixes' to try and assuage the gawd-awful mess Labour has got us into are exactly what we need. The last thing we need is for Gordon Brown to do what every other Labour government who has got themselves into this predicament does which print money.
Every day that doesn't happen goes much further to maintaining the credibility of the government and the currency than grandstanding about windfall taxes ever could. We, as a country, need Gordon in there paralysed by fear. Because while he's not doing anything useful he's not making the situation any worse. Harman's wooing of the 'brothers' with her blah blah about inequality reminds us just ho much things could get worse if Labour decides, in these times of economic disaster (of their own making) to go down the 'squeeze the rich' route.
The down-side of 'squeezing the rich' to appease the Labour core vote is how many people suddenly turn out to be 'rich' when compared with the ill-educated chump who will vote Labour as long as the 'rich' are getting thumped. Right now, even in the teeth of the greatest economic screw-up since the 1970's you can still poll 25% of folk who will vote Labour. That has to be close to the 'core' vote. Short of machine-gunning these people they will vote Labour. Even then they might qualify for a postal vote in Birmingham.
The other 75% will be the 'rich'.
You just hang in there Gordon. You're doing two good jobs. You're reminding people just how useless and financially incompetent Labour are with every day that this Labour government endures. PLUS, by your inaction, you're not actually making anything worse. The damage is already done. We just have to work through it. Any 'fix' you might attempt is doomed to make matters worse.
Sit there. Do nothing. Get annihilated in 2010. Plus totally destroy any ambitions of any Labour MP younger than 30.
Perfect.
Complain about this comment
Now his backbenchers are starting to facing facts - Brown must go.
70 votes may be needed to force a competition -- but far fewer are needed to fatally undermine Brown.
He may be too selfish to stand down even then -- but he should be calling a general election anyway.
He has had a year to 'layout his vision' that was what he put of the election for... So now it is due.
There is no point in lumbering the taxpayer with an extra 'ex-primeminister's exit package - straw or milliband getting our money for decades, just because they stood in for the last few months of labours collapse...
Complain about this comment
If the Labour Party was able to hold a secret ballot amongst it's members, unions and MP's today I am sure Crash Gordon would be out.
The reason that these Labour MP's are now coming out for a ballot is to try to force a leadership election as they know any new leader will help them hold on to their seats come the next General Election Massarce. It's pure self-interest. None of them are wanting a discussion about how this country gets through the economic crisis. They only want to talk about the leader....not policy.
These Labour MP's have no chance of toppling Brown through the procedural processes of the Labour Party. And Crash won't resign. So it's a stand-off and will continue to be. All this time and energy is being focused on an internal battle whilst Rome burns. I say this because Crash must be spending 25% of his time every day dealing issues relating to the internal dissent. This must stop now for the sake of the country and particularly the poor.
These Labour MP's should shut up, get behind the Prime Minister, despite his utter hopelessness, and contribute to the a debate about policy for these difficult times behind closed doors. They are all entrusted to rule by the electorate. That's their job!
It doesn't matter who is leader as the Labour Party are doomed within the next 18 months. But is it better that Labour go down to a diginified defeat by the person who has harmed this country so much and has been the architect of it's economic demise. Labour can re-group after the election and provide a proper opposition.
All these Labour MP's want to do is de-stabilise the Government which in turn will de-stabilise the decisions of the Government thus affecting business and the people badly. All this is not making for good Government. They must stop all of this now and support their leader in a dignified way and then fight their internal battles AFTER the election when it won't affect the hard working families of this country.
Major's Government was a disgrace and Brown's is looking exactly the same.
Self- interest rules OK is seems!
Complain about this comment
meanwhile in the real world people don't care, they just want the price of food, gas, petrol etc to comedown.
Complain about this comment
Brown only has himself to blame. In the run up to his leadership election he claimed he wanted an open contest, and then surpressed any opposition to ensure he was elected unopposed. Democracy in action- and bound to cause simmering resentment.
He effectively has no elected mandate, either from his party OR the electorate. The Prime Minister that no-one voted for. An open contest might just be what he needs...win and the public see his party believe in him, lose and the party has another chance
Complain about this comment
I say this because Crash must be spending 25% of his time every day dealing issues relating to the internal dissent.
He will devoting 90% of his time eliminating internal dissent. The other 5% of the time he'll be writing a book about 'Heroes' and the remaining 5% of the time he'll be deciding who to send on the Andrew Marr show this Sunday to read out this little speech he's prepared for them.
Complain about this comment
Your days are numbered Brown! Hahaha!
Complain about this comment
But is it better that Labour go down to a diginified defeat by the person who has harmed this country so much and has been the architect of it's economic demise. Labour can re-group after the election and provide a proper opposition.
A dignified defeat? I want them to suffer an utterly humiliating defeat. I want them completely broken. Their bones crushed under the Panzer of 30 million votes.
Anything else would be an abomination against natural justice.
Major's Government was a disgrace and Brown's is looking exactly the same.
John Major had a majority of about six as long as the Ulster Unionists didn't rock the boat.
Gordon Brown has a majority of 70. If, after 10 years he hasn't got some policys to pull out of the bag the second he became PM with a majority that big then we can safely assume he is useless. He doesn't. His 'big idea' is to lock us all up without charge and have us carry ID cards around. The man is off his head.
He could salvage some kudos simply by blaming Tony Blair for all these rubbish policies (even if it's not true) and then systematically dump them. That's what most of the country thought he would do. That's what most of the Labour party thought he would do.
He hasn't. You do begin to wonder if the weren't all his idea all along and Tony was just there for the foreign travel and the photo ops.
Complain about this comment
I believe that the only thing keeping Gordon Brown in his job is personal vanity - he just doesn't want to be a Prime Minister who will have served one of the shortest terms.
He is a monumental failure and seems oblivious to the fact that this is what he will be remembered for. As the old adage goes, "careful what you wish for". He was broadly respected as Chancellor, now his political and personal reputation is in tatters.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#9:
It is also obvious that GBs 'policies' are so poorly thought through and communicated that they don't mean anything to a significant proportion of the Labour party, let alone the electorate.
This is deliberate. Every statement he makes sounds, at first pass, as being entirely unambiguous. But it's only after you look at them and examine them for possible ambiguities that you have to go back for clarification. And why?
Because this government has plenty of previous form for making apparently unambiguous commitments and then relying on semantics and sophistry of the most insulting kind to persuade themselves that they didn't actually lie. No. You misunderstood.
Treaty on the Lisbon Constitution anybody?
Complain about this comment
Ooh now Labour MP George Howarth has requested nomination papers.
The revolution is at hand!
Complain about this comment
There is no candidate in the cabinet, or in the Labour Party as a whole, as far as I can see, who would successfully replace Gordon Brown as party leader and PM. We knew he would succeed Tony Blair. That was always on the cards.
But what he lacks, in my opinion, is the support of substantial politicians within the party to take the focus off him.
The triumvirate of Blair, Brown and Prescott worked well and was to the advantage of the party and the party leader.
But where are the successors to Gordon Brown and John Prescott in this Government?
And it seems to me, a mere impartial observer, that Gordon Brown's detractors within the party are doing their best to get the party voted out of office, whilst failing to present voters with alternative policies or positive thinking for the future of the party. It has also occurred to me that the Brown administration is a welcome change from Blair's presidential style, but that popular taste and media appetites favour the latter.
Complain about this comment
Poor Gordon, under phoney Tony's leadership and GB stewardship he never knew that borrowing so much money and giving away to ever lost cause was wrong.
But one thing for sure is whoever gets voted in 2010 will have to work more than a economic miracle to get us back up to even third world status !
Ten years ago we were estimated to be £59 billion in the black, now we are £564 billion in the red, but that's Labour favourite colour.
GB has always talked with pride about 'economic prudence', but has nobody realized that is the name of his cat !
Complain about this comment
I bet Brown lies awake at night, staring at the ceiling wondering why the hell he didnt call a General Election when he had a chance. It show excruciatingly poor judgement.
I am also angry that we havent had a chance to vote on him, whenever a party changes leader, and therefore PM it should trigger a general election.
To say that they are elected on the strength of a manifesto is extremely weak, particularly when it has been thrown out of the window long ago.
Its ok to claim to be the greatest chancellor the country has ever seen when the world economy is bouyant, then blame the down turn on these external factors. Pathetic.
Labour will be destroyed at the next election and good riddance, and I am a life long labour supporter; thats how much trouble they are in.
This situation really demonstrates the contempt politicians hold for the public. They are more interested in saving their jobs and salaries (in the short term at least) then doing something about the current government, and our unelected prime minister. Shame on you all.
Complain about this comment
This is ridiculous, Siobhain McDonagh gets fired for having an opinion and publicly sharing it. It is her job to say what she thinks is best for the people that have elected her. If the MPs don't have free speech how does the government think they can trick us into think we have any say in this great de-mock-racy.
Brown should allow there to be a contest, if he wins then everyone will shut up if not we have the joy of blaming everything on some one else!
Complain about this comment
Whilst Labour MP's claim taxpayers money to pay for their high standards of living, Rome will burn for another 18 months.
It's time to start a discussion about the type of policies needed for this country to recover from what will be in 2010, 13 years of mind-blowing profligacy.
Any ideas guys? Let's try to be constructive and positive. These bloggs should now be used to try to influence the thinking of the Conservative Party who will be our next servants/masters (?). I guess many senior Conservative's read Nick's blog secretly!
Let's hope that the Conservatives just level with us in an honest way and don't dish up a manifesto in 2010 like the one in Post 10 highlighted by djlazarus. What a @@@@@@ joke that now seems! An total contrick of mammoth proportions. I wonder what Trading Standards would say about that is they had the powers!
Honest, conviction politics please!
Complain about this comment
Who on earth would have the balls to put their head above the parapet and challenge Gordon Brown? If they did they could kiss goodbye to a high paid post in Government. If they are a minister they would either be immediately sacked or reshuffled into oblivion next time around. Nobody forgives a traitor unless of course it is yours truly himself. Thankfully it is in our power to eject him from his cushy number at the next General Election. Nothing barring a disastrous serious of gaffes by the Opposition can prevent that from happening.
Complain about this comment
I will be eligible to vote in 2010, and my vote will not be going to the Liebour party! The only shame is that we will have to wait 18 months until Gordon Brown is forced out of number 10 kicking and screaming.
He (and the rest of his circus) consistently claim that they are "listening to the people".
Well listen to this Gordon:
CALL AN ELECTION NOW.
Complain about this comment
Gordon Brown is being besieged from evey corner. He was once revered for his economic policies but now seems to be scorned when he offers economic prescriptions. It is far too early to write him off; in fact silly to do so. Gordon has tremendous skills: prudent financial skills which kept Labour in the ascendency. Now mid-term blues have placed the Labour Party in a defensive mode with Gordon at the unfortunate receiving end. He could still weather the storm and rescue the Government and the Labour Party. Good Luck to a brilliant mind caught up in the machinations of the Opposition.
Complain about this comment
The time for loyalty is when the going gets tough. I will never forgive any treacherous or disloyal moves to oust Gordon Brown who I feel strongly is clearly the most able person to deal with the exceptionally difficult times that we are having to face. I just don't see any other potential leader able to perform better in these adverse conditions.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
re: 30
Hahahahaha!
Complain about this comment
Pancha_Chandra @30
Is a "brilliant mind" a euphemism for 'psychologically flawed'?
Complain about this comment
This is all party of a cunning plot. We are being carefully conditioned. The idea that we need a new approach to government and an end to the New Labour experiment has already been replaced by an 'anything is better than this lot' mentality.
Now it gets really clever. Labour has a majority of 70 so we can't throw him out. The PLP has no credible replacement so they can't throw him out and they can't put together 70 rebels anyway. So they are just going to carry on slinging mud and plotting plots.
The ultimate objective is that they drag all this out into 2010 getting more and more boring so that, by then, nobody will give a flying ferret who wins what just as long as we can talk about something interesting for a change. Turn out at the election will be limited to insomniacs and people with nothing better to do and the newly elected Labour government with a huge majority based on 1% of the popular vote will consider it prudent to abolish elections altogether as nobody is interested any more.
Complain about this comment
Post 30. Pancha_Chandra.
Please!
You are as deluded as Gordon!
Just name me ONE, just ONE, party in Government that has come back from the depths of these "mid-term blues" and in such economic circumstances and won a general election? Just one?
The only one I can think of is John Major in 1992 and he had Al Right Welsh Windbag Kinnock to help him. Cameron is no Kinnock.
We've got a least 10 years of Tory rule into the 2020's to enjoy all down to Crash Gordon!
Woo Hoo!
Complain about this comment
Post 31.
I do...Cameron!
Complain about this comment
#28 - misswaldorf
"Who on earth would have the balls to put their head above the parapet and challenge Gordon Brown?"
Someone who does not have the brains to put their balls above the parapet first - kinda rules Harriet Harman out doesn't it?
Complain about this comment
If anyobody who posts on here thinks that Cameron can or will make petrol/food/taxes etc affordable they are living in cloud cuckoo land. Cameron and his ilk want to make money for their rich friends who own the privatised unaccountable foreign owned monopolies that charge what they like and get away with the death of cold pensioners. Even leaving that aside, the Tories have pledged to keep Labour's spending plans for the first half of their government. Cuts in public spending wll be selective in the end, resulting in mass unemployment and a lousy health service that the Tories neither believe in, use or encourage to use.
Part of the tradgedy is that the Blair/Brown intervention of the market in the provision of public services will make it easier for the Tories destroy the last vestiges of decency in this lousy country.
Coupled with a McCain victory in the US we will all firmly be in a handcart to hell.
And the woman who strated this mess? She is being shown around Chequers garden by Gordon Brown as I write.
Shameful. Tragic. Disgusting.
Complain about this comment
34 septic max your credibility is gone we all now know you are a bloated capitalist, its no wonder you try to talk down to us.
Complain about this comment
38 threnodio. I like it, lower class, but very funny.
Complain about this comment
36 northern thatcherite
you say
" Cameron is no Kinnock." your to right, he's not , Kinnock has twice the brains cameron has.
Complain about this comment
#39 - sandPerran
The Tory commitment on public expenditure, as Michael Howard made clear on Newsnight yesterday, is to adhere to government spending plans until 2010-11 not - as you say - for the first half of their period in office.
I am not unsympathetic to your views but you need to get your facts right.
Complain about this comment
#30
Again another reference to Gordon Brown's intellectual abilities, this time it's a 'brilliant mind'.
In a earlier thread I remarked that I had never seen any evidence of high intelligence from Gordon. Could anyone please tell me on what thay base this assertion? Did he perform really well at school,university or in a earlier job? I have asked this before but nobody has come back with an answer.
Complain about this comment
#35: Your maths is almost as bad as Labour's economics. It only takes 36 rebels to defeat a majority of 70.
That number has been exceeded several times already - hence the back pedalling on the10p tax etc when the government knew it was facing a commons defeat.
Complain about this comment
Changing the Captain will make no difference if the ship is still heading towards the rocks.
Where were these brave labour "rebels" when the votes were taken in the House of Commons on pushing through the European constitutional treaty without the promised referendum, the extension of detention without charge to 42 days, ID cards, or the snoopers charter that allows local authorities to spy on the public including emails?
Complain about this comment
Unfortunately Brown is tainted both by his prolonged effort to remove Blair and his lack of charisma. The great strides made by Labour since Blair became PM are largely lost to the public through presentation. Labour faikls to triumph its achievements and Brown fails to inspire confidence in leadership.
His cardinal error was not calling a General Election after ousting Blair. That form of succession does not sit comfortably with wavering voters and the World scale problems since only serve to emphasise the magnitude of the error.
Labour remains in the cycle of being less socialist than the Conservative Party, not that they are, just that it appears that way. It was a strategy to win power, not a bible for the future. With virtually nothing to choose between Labour and Conservative, the concensus view may be to 'pick the other lot since they couldn't do any worse'.
Brown has to go... the problem remains who to replace him with as the Blair/Brown partnership effectively quelled individualism in Labour.
Complain about this comment
#45 - WildGardener
In which case my maths are marginally better than your understanding of the PLP's. rules.
In order to start a leadership contest from within the PLP, it is necessary for the rebels to obtain the support of 20% of the members which, on current figures, is 70 MPs.
The fact that they have a majority of 70 in the Commons is pure coincidence. It may come as a suprise to you but I can work out that 35 is half of 70 without help.
Complain about this comment
37 nothern thatcherite
I do...Cameron!
so you avdocate that we select caneron to guide us out of a immmminent recession, I guess he has all the Tory credentails for that post after all he was trained by that great chancellor Norman Lamont and educated at Eton,you cant get a better CV than that , now be fair.
Complain about this comment
This is just a re-enactment of the Thatcher tottling. We have a leader who is seen as being out of touch and increasingly ineffective.
The leader refuses to go. The leaders cronies huddled around wont throw the leader out because they will be out of favour with the new leader.
So the lower level in the enclave revolt and topple the leader. It is all a waste of time because it is most unlikely to rejuvinate public enthusiasm for the current government, in fact the toppling is seen by the public as more reason for concern.
This is not a peasants revolt. The peasants are the voters who have no say in this toppling process. This is a feathered enclave trying to hang on to their jobs at the next election. They dont like that sort of description but they are on higher than average salaries, many perks and considerable unquestioned allowances and a position of power. That is feathered.
Major replaced Thatcher and was seen as a caretaker. He survived an election simply because Labour were not attractive as an alternative at the time, and in particular at that time were seen are less than sensible custodians of the ecomony and interest rates (mortgage cost).
In fact at the time Blair basically said New labour would behave like the Conservatives on financial expenditure to help swing it.
No such concerns seem to be felt about the Conservatives at this time. It would be a miricale if the Conservatives did not get in at the next election and whether Brown is leader or not will make no difference.
There would appear to be great voter resentment to high taxes, stealth taxes by any other name such as the energy policy just anounnced which is due to be collected via energy bills.
The fact is the majority of this country did not want to enter a US lead war. You insist on going to war and win then ok. You insist on going to war and get bogged down for years, cost hundreds of lives and billions of pounds, help provoke more terrorism, have no clear end point or outcome then your card gets marked. Labour and Brown where part of that mess.
This government also has clearly let private companies, the banks, run the economy, and strip money out of the economy, which was an abdication of responsibility.
The problem is that The Conservatives will inherit an economy which has bottomed out and is on the upswing. They will take all the credit, be happy to see a housing market boom and the great danger is that we have to go around the whole loop again to the same end point. There is little in the way of economic miracle in the UK, it is all about house prices.
Complain about this comment
"All of this in-fighting is futile: there's only one thing that can save Labour now.
Gordon Brown could survive to win the next election if Argentina launched an attack on Port Stanley, and if we sailed a task force down there, sunk a few ships and chucked them out.
If Gordon stood on a tank and waved a union jack, we'd all cheer and throw votes at him. Apart from that chance, it's curtains for Labour at the next election, so they might as get used to it."
The EU would veto it.
Complain about this comment
#18 ... U and the numbers,
You write quite well but you should try and calm down a bit if that's possible. Most of your points are silly but some of them aren't and the good stuff is getting lost.
You're trying a little too hard to be "devastating", I think that's the problem.
Complain about this comment
49 northern thatcherite, I print this again as my computer has gone awol again
I do...Cameron!
so you advocate that we select Cameron to guide us out of a imminent recession, I guess he has all the Tory credentails for that post after all he was trained by that great chancellor Norman Lamont and educated at Eton,you cant get a better CV than that , now be fair.
Maybe it wasn't the computer after all.
Complain about this comment
"If Gordon stood on a tank and waved a union jack, we'd all cheer and throw votes at him."
All he needs is drinking lessons and you won't be able to tell him apart from Yeltsin.
Complain about this comment
51 purpledogzzz you mean in the way that thatcher conived to get re- elected, Well it worked for her didn't it.
Complain about this comment
# 30 Pancha_Chandra
You say "Gordon has tremendous skills: prudent financial skills which kept Labour in the ascendency".
Hmmm. I don't thinks so.
Brown inherited a healthy economy in 1997 and got by for a few years because of stable conditions. But when the going gets tough, prudence goes out of the window!
"Tax and spend" has become "borrow and waste". Labour has plunged this country into a crisis of its own making.
A change of direction, not a change of leader, is what is needed now.
Complain about this comment
Gordon Brown is an OK guy but he is not a leader.
He needs to realise for the good of the party he needs to step down and let someone else take charge.
I noticed during the Georgia conflict how much David Milliband did, he's the kind of guy they need in charge
Complain about this comment
I will be amazed if there are not at least seventy MP's that want a leadership contest.
If there is not they all must be on the same wave length as Gordon.
If that is the case then they should cling on to him and be wiped out as a party at the first possible chance.
I can not believe this is the case.
The few that don't want to irritate Gordon will stand up for once and be counted.
I will (like a lot of the country) be watching very closely, at who wants to follow the path to destruction of or country, that Blair and Brown are on.
Complain about this comment
# 53 grandantidote
Some socialists might think that because Cameron was educated a private school, this somehow counts against him. Who said the class war was over?!!
It's also strange when some Labour MPs have been privately educated themselves and/or send their children to private schools. Typical Labour double standards - "do as I say, not as I do"!
Complain about this comment
#57 - MeanWarlock
"I noticed during the Georgia conflict how much David Milliband did, . . ."
What I noticed was how much he talked although I do not recall him actually recall him saying very much of note.
Complain about this comment
So is this party leadership nomination system a proof that the Labour Party in democratic Britain is superior to the Communist Party in China under an autocratic system?
Aren't we going to hear Free Tibet anymore, or is the Olympics over now?
Oh, okay, I will settle for Free Britain from Gordon Brown, even if we don't get Free Britain from Labour..... Crumbs, Lazarus....
Complain about this comment
What I noticed was how much he talked although I do not recall him actually recall him saying very much of note.
I seem to recall reading recently that the Russian Foreign Minister rang him recently for a little tete-a-tete. Using the kind of language most of us would use if we happened upon him in the long grass.
I do hope it's true.
Oh boy. This government is loathed across the board. Internally and internationally.
While I don't want the economy to get any worse I think it's inevitable. The last thing I want is for Gordon to call an election because all that will do is hand Cameron the hospital pass that is the UK economy. PLUS, the apparatchiks will then be blaming Cameron for bringing us into recession. We haven't had our two negative quarters yet. One is in the bag but they could still avaoid being in power for the second one and then disingenuously blame the Tories.
I want everybody to be crystal clear whose fault this disaster is. And if it takes 18 more months of personal pain then I'm prepared for that. The pay-off is Labour will be consigned to history.
I can live with that. I bet Cameron doesn't want to be PM for another 18 months either. By then the voters will be ready for their medicine.
Complain about this comment
There are three problems:
what labour MP would want to take over the mess?
remember GBs government of all the talent - there aint any.
Why would turkeys vote for Xmas?
It is going to be a long 18 months. Any sensible labour MP is looking to their future - outside Westminster. It will be interesting to see if they drift off to the 'safety net' of the welsh and scottish 'jobs for the boys' assemblies.
Complain about this comment
grandantidote @40
Anyone weighing 20st is ill-advised to talk about 'bloated'.
Complain about this comment
re: 64
Lol how true!
Complain about this comment
I say feed him to the grizzlies.
Unfortunately, it is unfair to the brown bears.
Complain about this comment
Brown and his cabinet are painfully poor and in fact a danger to the UK economy.
Even the agreement with energy companies for insulation etc may be passed on to customers. The best the government can say is there is an EXPECTATION that the cost will not be passed on. Therefore they have no firm agreement that it will not. Looks like it may be another finacial burden on those who only pay into the pot and receive nothing back at all.
Labour out for sake of our country!!
Complain about this comment
Are you in the market for a used car?
Assuming you can afford the fuel ( I Had to put my car in as a deposit on a tank full!
[IMG]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/babellchapel/_45013980_9be33243-eea4-4a8d-a16d-a.jpg[/IMG]
Here is the head of Sales Dept. Prudence Brown.
Complain about this comment
Post No.8
"Gordon Brown. Leader of the Labour Party. For Life."
Not very likely.
Alex Salmond will stand against Brown at the next General Election and Brown will lose.
That's why he bottled out last year!!!!
Complain about this comment
The bottom line is that Labour are entering a civil war with no clear sides and no clear solutions. Once the "phoney war" is over they are going to start ripping each other apart and Labour will sink still further in the polls.
I still question whether the the Labour Party won't fragment into new parties within ten years.
Complain about this comment
#10.
If that is an accurate copy of Labour's 1997 manifesto promises then it should be obvious to everyone that Labour has systematically lied and fiddled to the point that they achieved the exact opposite of every promise made.
Such a record is utterly indefensible.
Complain about this comment
By the way anybody know what David Cameron stands for?
God save the Queen - and all of her subjects.
Complain about this comment
To the poster of no.30 - and a few others, I cannot believe how deluded you are, your level of denial is monumental. This country is SUFFERING due largely to the arrogance and stupidity of one man: Gordon Brown. Granted he has been helped in his idiocy by various others, most notably the vast bulk of cowardly labour MPs and most of the media sucking up to him at every opportunity but the responsibility lies with him and I hope to God nobody forgets that. I am so sick of hearing about the 'evils' of Thatcher, yes, the early 80s were a hugely painful time for many people but damnit, she improved things for the majority. And I remember the late 70s, I still shudder at some of those memories, it's amazing how many people have conveniently forgotten the utterly dreadful economy that Mrs. T inherited.
And as for those few 'class warriors' out there, please grow up. Class is no indicator of ability, or inability for that matter. If you want to throw rocks at Cameron please at least have the honesty to ask yourselves "Who is the only prime minister in the last 35 years to have been privately educated?" Oh yes, that would be Tony 'Man of the People' Blair, wouldn't it? But then hypocrisy has always been one of the chief labour sins.
Who knows how David Cameron will do? I have high hopes but those hopes may be dashed. One thing I do know is that he will do better than the current shower of shite. I just hope he's given enough time to do it.
Complain about this comment
By the way anybody know what David Cameron stands for?
I have a pretty good idea:-)
But if you were him what would you do? Every time he comes up with an idea two things happen: the majority of the media rubbish it and then Labour steal the idea, twist it, bastardise it, devalue it and then present it to us poor mutton chops all wrapped up in a shiny red ribbon. If I was D Cameron I'd be keeping my lip very firmly zipped indeed.
Complain about this comment
Do we know what these Labour rebels want? It's hard to support or deny support if we only know that they're Anti-Brown.
Do they want a return to Old Labour politics? Are they just pandering to the newspapers?
Is there anywhere we can find out what these guys and girls want for the party and the country up til the election should they succeed, other than minus one Gordon Brown?
At the moment it seems quite an empty gesture.
Complain about this comment
Why has this all come to fruition this weekend, I wonder? Perhaps it had something to do with the revelation that £500m of British taxpayers money was being channeled into a certain project in Geneva that might very well spell the end of mankind.
Complain about this comment
Gordon took the baton from Blair and has tried to revitalise the economy. But the world economomy has been on a tail-spin! One cannot blame Brown for that. This is a world-wide recession and even the best economic brains do not have a clue as to the solutions. So give Gordon a break! He is trying to give the kiss of life to the British economy. Labour is one party that is trying to help the poor and the needy while the Conservatives have always supported the rich and upper middle class. It is time that equality of opportunity is given to all sections irrespective of race, colour or creed. Gordon is in a difficult moment now but should come out of the crisis provided he follows his instincts. Labour should come out trumps!
Complain about this comment
#71
I doubt Mandleson or even Alastair Campbell would have an answer to that one, and let's face it, they had an answer for everything!
Complain about this comment
Can we please have a General Election. We are a normal family on a low income....its got so bad under these muppets.. Brown is not even elected as PM....If labour want to stay in power....they need a new leader and as for the rest of the muppets in the cabinet that are millionaires and get paid so much form our taxes should just give up,....we have had enough as a country, they lie, cheat and forget who they serve...they are greedy...this is not the real labour party, these lot Im sorry to say are scum
Complain about this comment
# 75
MikeS_C
"Do we know what these Labour rebels want?"
The impression is they are interested only in saving their own skins! Realising that they will probably lose their seats at the next election if Brown is still at the helm, they come creeping out of the woodwork to try to get rid of him. Of course, they tell us they are acting for the good of the party and country!
Where were these self-righteous "rebels" when we needed them?
Why were they silent when Brown denied us the referendum on the EU constitutional treaty which had been promised on page 84 of Labour's 2005 manifesto?
Complain about this comment
The problems for the Labour Party have their antecedents in the policies of Tony Blair. When he, with the connivance of the other right wingers, decided to turn Labour into the Tory Party mark II the die was cast. Gordon Brown, who didn't speak up then, is now suffering the inevitable consequences.
It is ironic, that those who began the downfall of the Labour Party, are now, lead by Charles Clarke, trying to unseat Brown and exert their influence once again.
Unless Cameron slips up badly, all he has to do is sit back and watch as New Labour is consigned to history unless, that is, Labour finds a messiah - quickly. It is not impossible, look at how the bumbling John McCain has revived his fortunes by selecting Sarah Palin to run with him.
In Brown's case, the "messiah" could be in a recognition that the New Labour experiment has been a complete disaster and as a consequence the Labour Party is going to return to its core principles, apologise for following Bush into the illegal attack on Iraq and implement a new set of policies which put ordinary people first and not the corporations and monopolies that are only there to cream off as much as they can from the incomes of working people.
Brown is a clever man but because he is so indecisive he cannot do the above by himself, therefore he should ditch the majority of the sycophants in the cabinet, appoint a deputy, who maybe he hasn't seen eye to eye with in the past, Bob Marshall-Andrews comes to mind, to help him select a new team and get cracking on restoring the fortunes of the country and thereby the Party.
Complain about this comment
Hey Grandadantipasta.
A decade of Tory Government is now virtually upon us due to the failures of your "hero" Crash Gordon.
Please tell me how you feel about that?
Woo Hoo!
Please keep up the infighting Labour MP's so that we get a thumping majority!
Go girls and boys go!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do you all remember Crash Gordon's snidy smile when driving out of Downing Street in the back of his limo after he finally got Bliar to set a date for his departure? Well let's see the British Electorate wipe that smug self-righteous smile right off that failing face of his. It will be a classic moment in British political history as the shortest serving Prime Minister for over 100 years gets well and truly booted out!
Complain about this comment
There is one guy who could turn it around for Labour though.............John Reid.
I wonder if he'll be making a comeback very soon???
Hmmmm.
Complain about this comment
# 73 Chow,
So, our economic woes are more to do with Gordon Brown than the banker created Credit Crunch are they? That what you believe?
Funny how Spain, Germany, US, Japan, Italy, Canada and Australia are all heading into a slump too, isn't it?
Guess Gordon's influence must be truly international.
Complain about this comment
74 chowbelanna
"I have a pretty good idea" that must be a first for you.
Complain about this comment
#81
Jack, right on.....couldn't agree more..
Would it not be great to hear conference, indorse core labour values and re-introduce clause 4 and calling for the immediate public ownership of energy and transport companies for the betterment of the British public......
Complain about this comment
64 septit max I may be 20st but even at 78 I still carry it well.
I can assure you that I have not led the life that makes you bloated, I unlike you have worked with my hands to earn my living not as in your case screwing people in order to furnish your trips half way around the world ,
So that you can satisfy your lust for death by bringing to an end the life of a noble creature worth a dozen of you.
The only way you come out on top is not because you have more intelligence than the unfortunate beast but only because you have a gun.
It must make you feel like a real man to have the poor creature lying at you feet.
Complain about this comment
Crash Gordon:
The most unpopular leader in the Western World?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7595696.stm
Why?
Complain about this comment
Re #77
Nobody denies that Brown is trying to deal with a lousy world economic situation. Unfortunately he has made things very much worse for UK plc by squandering money during the good times and hence having nothing in the pot to put things right now. The British have always tended to put extra cash into housing (the first big house price inflation in the seventies was driven by the increase in household income as married women went back to work) and in a small island with limited space, demand-pull inflation works its inexorable logic. G Brown put masses of mostly unnecessary and often undeserved extra cash into peoples' pockets via increased public sector spending, whether financed by traditional taxation or shady PFI deals; added to a breathtaking ignorance of the effects of increased "non-status" private lending on real (as opposed to Mickey Mouse CPI) inflation, a house price spiral was bound to develop. And he should have had the balls to stop it, by tightening up on the lending rules, instead of coasting along on a spurious "feelgood factor". Meanwhile the MPC appears to be totally ignorant of the difference between demand-pull and cost-push inflation, and have belatedly imposed the tools they should have used against the former to deal with the threat of the latter - which should be dealt with in the normal way by supply and demand (see the drop in petrol usage). Meanwhile high interest rates are of course depressing things even further. A curse on all their houses!
Complain about this comment
My advice to Brown? Start acting with conviction and damn popularity from the press.
Why not introduce reforms now that will hurt and be unpopular but will have to be done. Take the EU - we're going to need them and want to stay in the club (despite what others may say) perhaps serious consideration about membership of the Eurozone? You can't be anymore unpopular!
Perhaps decent constituitonal reform for a change. A system without the monarchy perhaps? I still find it offensive that we have no say in our Head of State and am someones 'subject.'
Take risks. Do the unpopular. That might save you in the end.
Complain about this comment
#84 - Let's compromise. Gordon Brown is no more responsible for the impending recession than he was for the preceding period of prosperity.
Complain about this comment
grandantidote
So that you can satisfy your lust for death by bringing to an end the life of a noble creature worth a dozen of you.
Um, yeah, a noble creature. Not a treacherous, dithering backslider at all. No way.
Complain about this comment
#91
No compromise there, just the admission the the global economy has an affect on Britain, as it has on many other countries.
Ppppppst......did you mean to be clever there.......Oooops
Complain about this comment
grandantidote @87
Really - what have you been taking? You seem to have confused me with Ernest Hemingway (which is kinda flattering, I guess) or some other big-game hunter.
You know absolutely nothing about me, for unlike you I have spared the readers of this blog banal autobiographical details of the kind that you have furnished.
Tally Ho!
Complain about this comment
in reply to U9461192, its only 70 MPs at present because thats 20% of the total number of labour MPs-afetr the general election that number will probably be reduced to about 30
Complain about this comment
92 ppl
I say with reference tothe death of one of gods finest creatures the Moose
2So that you can satisfy your lust for death by bringing to an end the life of a noble creature worth a dozen of you."
You reply with
"Um, yeah, a noble creature. Not a treacherous, dithering backslider at all. No way."
makes you wonder folks dont it!
Complain about this comment
BTW, The only moose I've ever destroyed was a chocolate mousse.... (especially good with a bit of brandy)
Still, I'd be willing to try a moose-burger. I've eaten - venison basically.
Complain about this comment
BTW, The only moose I've ever destroyed was a chocolate mousse.... (especially good with a bit of brandy)
Still, I'd be willing to try a moose-burger. I've eaten raindeer - venison basically.
Complain about this comment
re: 96
Well obviously I thought you were talking about Brown, which is an easy mistake to make for your phrase
So that you can satisfy your lust for death by bringing to an end the life of a noble creature worth a dozen of you
is just the sort of claptrap you and the other Nu-Lab zealots regularly regurgitate.
Complain about this comment
re: 98
We should throw the Labour MPs on the barbie.
I presume they'd taste like pork.
Complain about this comment
94 septic max its very easy to read between the lines of a sly fox like you.
A little slip here a little slip there and many of us have you weighed up old fella.
The only autbiographical information that has appeared on here of mine is what has been freely given to those that asked for it. I'm not afraid to tell people what I have done with my life as I have nothing to be ashamed about.In fact I'm quite proud of what I achieved.
None of it was spent killing animals for pleasure.
If you consider that to be likened to Ernest Hemingway as being a compliment then thats another little clue to telling me what sort of person you are, I really didn't like him either. another little clue at the end Tally Ho! I abhor those slimy characters also.
Complain about this comment
No.90 BSlight.
Absolutely agree; one of Brown's biggest mistakes has been to keep us out of the Eurozone.
Having a monarchy does us no favours either, it merely helps to perpetuate the class system.
Complain about this comment
This way of politicking is just so no 21st century. The issues of our age, the environment, war, poverty and a certain spiritual emptiness out there are side lined by a bunch of bickering intelligent people who should know better.
It's like watching endless repeats of East Enders and still think it's interesting or news worthy or even worth talking about.
I say, get a grip ! :-)
Complain about this comment
The problems for the Labour Party have their antecedents in the policies of Tony Blair. When he, with the connivance of the other right wingers, decided to turn Labour into the Tory Party mark II the die was cast.
Revisionist history I'm afraid.
Gordon Brown has done what all 'Old Labour' governments do. He's increased taxes, he's borrowed and squandered hundreds of billions, he's employed an extra million people (who will hopefully thank him by voting Labour) in essentially adminstrative roles at a time when computers should be making administrator increasingly obsolete.
Increase taxes. Borrow. Squander. Increase public head-count.
As Old Labour as you could hope to get.
He's gone one better. He's not got a Stalinist reputation unfairly. He's going to lock us up for weeks without charge and he wants us to carry compulsory ID. For our own safety.
The man is a stark, raving control freak straight out the Stalinist handbook.
Tory Mark II. You wish.
This is the latest tactic by the Wrong wing. Socialism has failed because it's become too Right wing. Errr, no, it's failed (again) because it ignores all previous examples of why it fails and simply repeated them.
Complain about this comment
Two New Labour politicians have come out in requesting a discussion or contest about Gordon Brown's future as Prime Minister. They have been praised for their bravery but I accuse the one I have had to deal with over several years of hypocracy.
Siobhain McDonagh is an arch Blairite who claims her total submission to the entire Blair political agenda since 1997 as a badge to be worn with honour. She conveniently forgets that her master retained power at the last election with the support of less than 25% of the voting public. She forgets that by the time he left office after hanging to achieve the "glory" of 10 years in office he was totally discredited with a level of public support just a little higher than Mr Brown's poll support today.
She says she is taking her current stand in the interests of her constituents yet on many occasions since her election as an MP at her third attempt she has acted against her constituents interests in her blind support of the Dear Leader. On at least one occasion she oversaw the deselection of long serving local councillors on Merton Council who did not believe New Labour policies were right for the Borough.
She expected total loyalty and would not permit a dissenting view.
How differently she acts today.
But even today she is being dishonest. With her past record as an unremarkable MP - her main claim to fame being the level of her postage expenses - it is unlikey that she would have spoken out without the approval of the plotters who want their lost power back and a return to discredited and wasted New Labour years
Complain about this comment
Absolutely agree; one of Brown's biggest mistakes has been to keep us out of the Eurozone.
You're only saying that because their interest rates are lower and you could have borrowed even more and had even bigger holidays and faster cars before the bubble went 'pop'. Like the Irish did.
Having a monarchy does us no favours either, it merely helps to perpetuate the class system.
You feel downtrodden because we have a monarchy. Your life has no meaning because you will never be Queen. Really?
I fear you are merely parrotting another excuse that the socialist intelligentsia (oxymoron) have taught you to explain your own spectacular underperformance?
Complain about this comment
@50 - that's why its called the economic cycle, it goes round and around.
something for cameron to do.
1) Bin ID cards
2) Bin this stupid idea of CCF units at all schools, just use the existing Cadet units in the areas.
3) Cut fuel duty by 10p and double you income via the upswing in VAT
4) Bin tax credits and reduce the total level of taxation for everyone.
Complain about this comment
104,106
Ignoring the childish comments, you prove my point, Brown and Blair are not socialists and in fact, Britain has never had a Socialist government.
Complain about this comment
Some people will do anything to gain power. Some will do anything to keep it.
Complain about this comment
Although I have never supported Labour, the Labour party have to show unity and back Gordon Brown. If they don't want him to be PM, why are they back him in the first place? They are just being hypocrite. Who do you think can replace him? I can't even pick one to be the next PM in the cabinet. David Miliband? Do you think he looks like a PM? Not everyone who comes from oxbridge is PM material.
I think the one who has the PM look is Charles Clarke, he should have come forward to challenge GB last year, and why did no one support him? Where are the backbenchers? Of course, they just didn't want to upset him, but why now? If they are really Anti-Brown, they should support Charles Clarke in the first place and the other guy whoever he is, can't even remember his name, becasue he's not a household name. Gordon Brown and Charles Clarke battle, it should have been a good fight and it would have been a great political media coverage.
Complain about this comment
If Brown doesnt go then I am afraid its 10-15 years in the wilderness.This is really serious and the cabinet and wider parliamentary labour party need to find some courage quickly.He can never recover after his 10% tax rate drama that was going to be an electoral bribe to the middle earners (22% to 20%) at the expense of many poorer people.People arent fools and some things are never forgotten.
Complain about this comment
Theses rebels are fools.
Brown has more economic acumen than the rest of parliament put together.
He kept our economy afloat despite having to fund Blair's war on two fronts, a war he opposed. He should sack the remnants of Bliar's cabinet and get stuck into Blair and phoney Labour. Brown is the thread that the damoclean sword of our economy hangs from. If he's replaced then we'll really see what a spiralling economy is.
Wake up fools.
Complain about this comment
Two people are sacked, what about the others who disagree?
Election, yes no, Northern Rock dither dither, fuel increases, heating allowance con... what about cooking this uses gas or electric?
The way this country is being ran can not go on and sadly not one member dare stand up and speak out... the master speaks and the cabinet agrees like obedient puppies, they dare not disagree - if this is good government I'm from Pluto..!
I never had the chance to vote for this Prime Minister nor had the chance to vote against, this is dictatorship not democracy..!
How come an Iron Chancellor makes such dramatic changes overnight as Prime Minister... was he really an iron Chancellor selling all our gold and ruining all the pensions as well as emptying the kitty.
A Prime Minister is only as good as his cabinet... alas the cabinet is empty there is not one single person could do better we are stuck with the mud.
Complain about this comment
112. At 11:56pm on 13 Sep 2008, halfwheeler wrote:
Theses rebels are fools.
Brown has more economic acumen than the rest of parliament put together.
He kept our economy afloat despite having to fund Blair's war on two fronts, a war he opposed. He should sack the remnants of Bliar's cabinet and get stuck into Blair and phoney Labour. Brown is the thread that the damoclean sword of our economy hangs from. If he's replaced then we'll really see what a spiralling economy is.
Wake up fools.
huh?
Now thats pure arrogance, face the facts, he ditched the 10p tax band, loves ID cards, and denied us our EU referendum.
And get your facts right, he didnt oppose the invasion of Iraq!
Or we would be pulling out NOW!
Remember Robin Cook?, what did he do?
Brown is another Bush, a simpleton, whos main education was history, well he will get his place in history, as the worst PM we have ever had!
Im afraid the NEW Labour Party project is truly finished, being a life long Labour voter, im truly discusted with Browns comments "were listening"
Like hell you are, you self-serving git!
Yes Mr Brown who are you listening to exactly?
Just leave before its too late, and call and election!
Complain about this comment
99ppl
I said
"So that you can satisfy your lust for death by bringing to an end the life of a noble creature worth a dozen of you"
You attempted to twist that statement to your advantage.
unfortunately for you all that you did was to tell us that you agree that that statement could well have refered to Gordon Brown as the noble creature and septic as the one he was worth a dozen of.
I hadn't realised that you held Gordon in such high esteem and septic in such low.
As for clap trap I must surely bow to your greater knowledge of the subject as we see samples daily from you on what seems like an hourly basis of the finest examples of claptrap ever seen on these blogs,
You must carry on the good work as it gives us mere mortals an insight into the fine interllect of the supporters of the Tory party.
Complain about this comment
I wouldn't call Brown a simpleton (and that stereotype of George Bush is completely misleading as well.) Brown is a 'typical' intellectual - he has ideas and can see the wider picture but has no clue on presenting them to the 'real' world. Probably he is one of the most cerebral PMs we are ever likely to have in the UK.
That said, Brown's failures, like most stubborn people are of his own doing. Labour (like the Tories in thr 1990s) threw away one of their prized assets: Tony Blair. Everyone was saying last year how great British Politics would be without Blair - now look at the scene. If we are honest, the success of Labour in 1997 was as much to do with Blair as it was to do with hatred of the Tories and the New Labour Project itself. This is supported by various surveys which suggest that without Blair as leader - the 1997 Election result would still have been a hefty Labour victory but more akin to the 1983 Tory win than the mass wipeout.
Perhaps one thing should be put in perspective as well. Blair was popular with the 'average' voter - i.e. not those who are die-hard supporters of one party or like people on forums such as these who discuss policy and the direction of politics. Most people vote in the UK on the basis of personality and a lot of the Labour success in 1997, 2001 and 2005 (and without Iraq the 2005 election probably would have been a similar landslide scale) was down to the fact that the average person liked Blair.
Blair redefined the role of the PM to a more presidential/media friendly style. John Major learnt to his peril that he wasn't media friendly enough and suffered for it. Brown is doing the same. He doesn't want to be populist and dislikes the sofa style of Government. In his plotting for the PM job, Brown seems to have neglected the fact that politics has changed since the early-mid 1990s.
The New Labour project was always an attempt to appease to Middle England voters. Blair made it work, Brown cannot. As I said in my earlier post, his only option should be to throw caution to the wind and implement unpopular but necessary reforms i.e. serious consideration of adopting the Euro, referendum on the Monarchy, etc he might be surprised at the results.
Complain about this comment
You attempted to twist that statement to your advantage.
unfortunately for you all that you did was to tell us that you agree that that statement could well have refered to Gordon Brown as the noble creature and septic as the one he was worth a dozen of.
No, you said it and it seemed like the kind of thing you would say about Brown, because you are deluded. I think Brown deserves to rot.
As for clap trap
Well grandy at least I can be creative, all I ever see from you is complaint after complaint about how people don't respect a corrupt party. Boo hoo. What have you ever offered the blog?
Sweet fanny adams, that's what.
Complain about this comment
As Nu-Labour lighten our purse
grandantidote attempts to converse;
But his self-righteous preaching,
His lies and false teaching
Mean his posts can't get any worse.
Complain about this comment
117ppl Oh! so I rattled your cage.Good.
You say
"No, you said it and it seemed like the kind of thing you would say about Brown, because you are deluded. I think Brown deserves to rot.
"Well grandy at least I can be creative,"
When was that! I must have missed it,
Damn I'll never forgive myself for missing a blogging event of that magnitude.
Now ppl that first statement is very creative, you have no answer so you abuse me and then you come out with one of the daftest and most childish statements that you've given us for at least two hours " I think brown deserves to rot " now that was difficult for you was'nt it.
You say
"all I ever see from you is complaint after complaint about how people don't respect a corrupt party"
Now are you sure you not getting me mixed up with some one else who is constantly complaining about GB, the government, everybody in the government that opens their mouth, every labour supporter that opens their mouth or even someone who has the slightest leanings towards the government. Is that GA, No! of course not .
Its our dear scurrilous belittling little friend known affectionally on these blogs as the mouth but poses under the name of
Power to the people.
I have offered many things to these blogs that have been debated unlike yourself who seems to spend most of you day and nights making up the most appalling poems to try to denigrate all and sundry that do
not agree with your viewpoint.
Incidentally I have never asked anyone to respect my party as you put it, what you, or any one else thinks is up to them but I will defend labour against all the rather absurd remarks that are made against them.
Complain about this comment
118ppl thats a exellent example of what I have just been saying, idiot.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Freewheeler ,If Brown didnt support the war he should have honourably resigned like Robin Cook and John Denham.Cant have his cake and eat it.So I conclude he did support the war.If he didnt that is even more disgraceful.
Complain about this comment
121ppl
You say.
grandantidote, the most consistent of bloggers:
Oh! ppl "stop messing about" as a comic used to say. You know that in a marathon of quantity of blogs you would have passed the finish line before I reached the 13 mile mark.
Hope you didn't mind a little inclusion there from the Olympics just a little bit of fun from the closing ceremony, you flatterer.
5:05pm, 13th Sept: 97ppl only one word for ppl, Idiot.
if I had wanted to insult you I would have wrote, only one word to describe you ppl idiot.
No you misunderstood I wasn't calling you an idiot I was refering to what you had said now if you thought iI was refering to you as being an idiot then what can I say, as septic said to me the other day "if the cap fits wear it"
12:29pm, 14th Sept: ppl thats a excellent example of what I have just been saying, idiot.
Same thing applies as above where do you see me say ppl you're an idiot. or ppl I think you are an idiot, Nowhere. I am not for one moment denying that I might think it but I didn't say it.
It comes under the same catagory as
what you declared earlier when you said,
"No, you said it and it seemed like the kind of thing you would say about Brown, because you are deluded.
You replied to that only because you thought that I might have said that. do try and pull yourself together old chap.
My advice to you is to have a long look in a mirror and ask yourself is it me who's deluded or is it GA then when your feeling a little better sit down quietly and see if you can write a nice little poem Oh!I am sorry I had forgotten you dont do nice do you but do try just for once,
Complain about this comment
121 ppl perhaps you would like to enlarge on the term " Bottom licker" I'm not able to find it on my word processor.
Complain about this comment
I hope that others listened to the Millibland interview on Radio 5 this morning. Now listen, this is important, we are in difficult times. People want us to get on with the job.
All the cabinet ministers know that the game is up. They are just about to crash and burn and so they continue to sit at a table with 'the leader' and await the visit to the bunker. They are going down, big time.
So as the military would say 'it's time to lock and load' because they, like our occupation of Iraq is coming to an end. You can expect an announcement of our retreat from Iraq during the labour party conference, just to silence the anti-war brigade. Mind you they will have to confirm that we are going to sign up to an American surge in Afghanistan.
There must a debate in parliament before we send ever more troops to reinforce another defeat, and there must be an inquiry into Iraq.
Complain about this comment
re: 123
This is the only poem you're getting:
grandy it's certainly you
Whose view of the world is askew,
All Labour have done
Is endlessly spun:
Their punishment's long overdue.
And perhaps you'd care to explain
Why we pay for Labour's champagne?
The so-called centre left
Have legalised theft
And robbed us again and again.
re: 124
Well grandy it's that thing you've been doing to Gordon Brown with your tongue.
Complain about this comment
126 ppl Ive never met Gordon Brown perhaps you'd like to tell me what exactly your saying I'm trying to understand but like you say I'm thick. so what does bottom licker mean ppl it sounds like something my mum would have given me a smack for but I Guess you were the spoilt brat that got away with everything. Well it seems you've lost the argument again old chap now just creep back or hop thats what toads do insn't it mouth, to the mirror and have another little chat with youself. see if you can get it right this time.
Complain about this comment
122 goosberry4
just a little reminder there were more Tories voted for the war pro rata than Labour MPs.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Grandantidote wrote:" " Cameron is no Kinnock." your to right, he's not , Kinnock has twice the brains cameron has."
Yes and Kinnock showed this intellectual might at the height of the 1992 election, at the Sheffield Rally held by the Labour Party on Wednesday 1 April 1992, a week ahead of the 1992 UK general election.
His repeated clarion call of "We're all right" was a dazzling panoply of his gargantuan intellectual prowess.
GET REAL Grandantitode, you are making an utter fool of yourself now. It's getting embarrassing even debating with you at all now. Your arguments are falling into the dismal realms of dark and desperate fantasy.
Complain about this comment
129 ppl sorry it didn't show first time ,it was probably my typing.
Complain about this comment
122. gooseberry4
You may have hit on the singular and most powerful reason by Brown is not cut out to be a leader.
Think of all the attributes that you want from a politician and a leader of the country
Now ask yourself this:
Would this person be able to sit quietly by as his boss implemented policy after policy that he wholly disagreed with and remain quite?
No thought not
Complain about this comment
#130
You are quite right with regard to another contributor to the Nick blog.
It is actually becoming oh so very sad. It is like watching a video of an appalling slow motion car crash, and the result is always the same.
Is it not the case that it should Brown is now 'Groundhog day Brown'.
What will finally destroy the labour party is when at the end of this parliament, which must end sometime, the recriminations and blame will be apportioned and one, or some will always be seen as the traitor.
I wonder when Brown will find a form of words which will be the 'back me or sack me' moment. Could somebody not find an illness for him, like they did with MacMillan, so that he can go gracefully, with his dignity, because I do actually fear for him.
I'm sure that he his a good man, but he seems to me a good second in command, never the captain of the ship. Maybe he ought to read some Plato, which may explain his situation to him, and others.
I can now see why some compared him to Stalin, anybody who is not for me is against me, and I will have no challenge to my authority. Can we soon expect some show trials, recant or else. Oh for a modern day Shakespeare.
Complain about this comment
Freewheeler, not only did Gordon Brown vote for the Iraq war, he was the chancellor that used our money to pay for it. He was also dragged in front of the cameras on the eve of the commons vote to publicly support the war fully in order to help convince the cowardly and the gullible ditherers in his lamentable party that were having second thoughts.
Brown was in favour of the Iraq war, make no mistake about that.
Complain about this comment
re: 127
so what does bottom licker mean ppl it sounds like something my mum would have given me a smack for
Why doesn't that surprise me?
re: 128
Just a little reminder, it was Labour who tricked people into voting for the war based on their made-up evidence.
re: 131
Aye it happens.
Has anyone found that certain words are banned on here? Posts containing them don't go through just like an un-HTML'd ampersand.
Come on Aunty Beeb, sort it out!
Complain about this comment
It is so depressing. This country is hitting tough times - some as down to us, some the result of external factors, some the result of panic headlines in the press which drive it further and further, on and on - either way, we need a steady, committed and UNITED government.
The last thing we need is infighting. These people calling for a leadership re-election need to be sacked. I never thought I'd say that, as I usualy support the underdog, calling it before the (false) giants of power. But this is a mess. Hold it together - back Brown. He's just cleaning up after Blair. Don't let those prannies, the Conservatives back in. They have no policies; their morals are no better than any human being on this planet (keep those expectations in check British public), they are as honest as any political party out there.
Stick it out and don't lose your heads.
Complain about this comment
"just a little reminder there were more Tories voted for the war pro rata than Labour MPs"
Yes and they claim it was based on the lies that they were told by the Labour leadership. The tories ,at best, had access to a limited version of the intelligence... They can plausibly claim therefore that they were not aware of the caveats and exceptions to the intelligence that even most of the Cabinet had been screened from.
IF the Cabinet did not know that they were lied to, then how could most of the tory's MPs?
MP's, (labour and tory alike) are only politicians who largely do as they are told and never think for themselves. They think OF themselves alot, but rarely FOR themselves.
I mean, I made the time to research who the key players were and what they were saying and what the intelligence was from public sources.
If you took the time to delve beyond the lies and propaganda in the western mainstream media you could build an accurate picture of the situation. The lies told by the British and American administrations was so inept that it was quite easy to come to the conclusion that Iraq had no WMD left after the mid 1990's.
What I was writing about Iraq in 2002 - 2004 is as correct today as it was back then.
What Blair and Brown have said about Iraq has changed significantly since 2003 and that is the sign of their lies being shown for what they are.
With this publicly available information, in 2003, I was 90% certain that WMD did not exist and labour were flat out lying, or showing signs of extreme delusion, before the invasion.
As it was normal back-bench MP's on all sides of the house would not have been aware as they are largely clueless as to how the world works. They still believe that we live in a free democracy for heaven's sakes.
Complain about this comment
Creatifgirl.... Who do you think created the Blair mess to be cleaned up? Who was at the center of everything that government did, forcing his own way or sulking mightily? Who was funding everything during the Blair years? Who was the one and only MP who had the temerity to tell "tony" what do do during all that time and could not be sacked?
Gordon Brown. He is the architect of ALL the troubles he is having right now. I call it a version of Karma and he and his hapless cabinet deserve everything that is happening to them.
He was warned in 2002 - 2007 in no uncertain terms that the economy would overheat and crash unless something was done to cool the housing market. He was told that the level of private debt was clearly unsustainable and this would undermine the economy. What did he do? He allowed people to use property to subsidise their pensions, pushing property prices through the roof and encouraging people to borrow against their equity for luxuries. Thus setting spending records and creating an utterly false impression that the economy was sound and performing well.
It was not. the economy was running on a treadmill of debt. That has stopped now and people are going to have to repay debt instead of spend, because they cannot borrow their way out of trouble.
The credit crunch is NOT Brown's fault, but he has weakened the economy so much that when it hit, (as was inevitable) it is hitting us much harder than it could have if the economy was managed properly.
It is almost ironic that the labour party that is interfering in evermore areas of everyone's lives, trying to track, monitor rate and control everything we do, is the same labour party that has backed off from managing the corporate-banking elite at all. Likewise the energy giants.
Gordon could end the energy price problems we face instantly. He could legislate to cap the price rices to 5% as a right wing leader has in France.
But, no! Brown will create policies that bully and intimidate and interfere in any and all aspects of our lives, instead of bringing the weight and power of government to bear in places that would make a really positive difference in everyone's life.
Complain about this comment
Mr. Geoff Hoon seemed totally demoralised and depressed on Sunday's World at One programme. However, he was right about one thing, people are not talking about a Labour leadership election. They are certainly talking about a general election!
And they can't wait !!!!!!!
Complain about this comment
Give Gordon a break! The world is going through a very frustrating economic down-turn. Very few statesmen and politicians are able to cope at this critical juncture. Gordon has impressive credentials and nobody in his or her right mind would question his tenacity or knowledge on a whole raft of issues. Of course when the going is on a free-fall, just nobody will be able to offer safe prescriptions. Prudence should be shown and caution should be the watch-word! That is exactly what Gordon is doing. His detractors would not be able to offer better solutions. Being an arm-chair critic is easy but being an effective practioner calls for level-head actions. Gordon is quietly searching for them! The Opposition will flounder if they were to have the reins of power right now!
Complain about this comment
130 purple dogzz when some one like you who spends most of his time on another planet and has prophesied with Tag that armageddon is due in the spring says some thing of this kind to me
"GET REAL Grandantitode, you are making an utter fool of yourself now. It's getting embarrassing even debating with you at all now. Your arguments are falling into the dismal realms of dark and desperate fantasy"
I wonder if its a compliment that you dont want to associate me with the way you think and that I should be pleased.
Or perhaps I should be disappointed that you dont like me any more, I think I'll go with the former.
I must concede that that moment of madness when Kinnock shouted out in triumph"were all right" several times cost him the election.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
re: 138 purpleDogzzz
You forgot to mention that Gordon Brown's answer to people not having enough money to buy a house at the moment is to encourage them to borrow more money and to gang together with other people if they still can't get enough, at a time when property prices are dropping through the floor.
You also forgot to mention that the reason people need to add to their private/company pensions is because Brown stole them all.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
147 Oh! i am sorry i pressed twice because I mis spelt ambition silly me.
Complain about this comment
So 70 MPs is a high hurdle for a leadership election? That does not seem so high to me. On second thoughts, does that mean if Labour get fewer than 70 seats at the next election it would not be possible to have a leadership election?
Oh dear!
Complain about this comment
#44. I myself have always thought this, after reading your post I took a look. GB was fast tracked from primary school to high school two years early. Was accepted into Edinburgh University @ the age of 16. Graduated with 1st class honours degree in History in 1972. It then gets very interesting.
It says he stayed on to complete his Phd (which he gained in 1982).
This took him 10 years! the normal period is 3 to 4 years, however If a student requires can be extended. Since the mid 90s this can only be for 4 years. So Gordon took a wee bit longer than he is allowing students now!!
He then did nothing of note in his career. Worked as a politics lecturer for Glasgow Polytechnic. before moving on to work as a journalist for Scottish Television. (He did this whilst progressing with his phD.)
He gained his PhD in 1983, and a year later was on the Westminster Gravy Train.
Scum!
Complain about this comment
Dear Moderators
A lot of these comments are really boring and tedious with long diatribes of rather childish comments between people slagging each other off. Can you not sharpen up your moderating skills and keep the discussions a bit more sensible and constructive? If they descend to personal abuse I suggest they should not be posted. It is of no interest to the rest of us.
Regards
JS
Complain about this comment
#151,
I do hope that comment wasn't aimed at me! I believe my post is perfectly fine! with detailed rhetoric.
My little out burst at teh end was to show my depp unsatisfaction with GB and his rather appalling Government!
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
JohnSeers @151,
Then just don't read them.
Censorious so-and-so!
Complain about this comment
moderaters I think you need to take a long and careful look at who is calling moderaters I am afraid its the devil in sheeps clothing.
Complain about this comment
ppl very quiet this morning I dont think its your conscience as I doubt you've got one.
No pretty poetry.
Complain about this comment
re: 156
It isn't the morning anymore Mr. G. A. Dote, it is the afternoon. Has your watch stopped?
Anyway, since you love my poems so much:
Labour is red,
Tories are blue;
The public have spoken,
Gordon is through!
Complain about this comment
re: 144-147
Four comments removed in a row? Is that a blog record?
Complain about this comment
158 ppl you should know you did it.
Complain about this comment
Grandantidote
Are you helping Derek with this list of assets of what?
Still no list.......
Complain about this comment
158 I would like to hear from all those that have been on these blogs for months moaning about free speech it seems its only free for some, like you ppl.
Complain about this comment
re: 159
No I didn't, so ha! It was probably John Seers at 151, not that I care. Anyway, it's you that supports the party that limits free speech--- you've forgotten all about that I see.
Complain about this comment
163 ppl if it wasn't you it must be somebody that loves you and who's that daft or its some one who hates me and you fit the bill for that. who ever it is atleast have the courage to admit it but then I guess that someone who behaves that way is never going to be the sort of person that would own up.but that fits you as well ppl.
Complain about this comment
160 carrots what list of assets let me know what your talking about and maybe I can help.
Complain about this comment
160 carrots you had your list, Gordon in Limbo 13 Sept 186 you didnt like the list so you wouldn't accept it.
Gosh that sounds like Cameron at PMQs he usually asks a silly question three time but wont accept a perfectly reasonable answer. Now how long have you kept on , if you think electricity gas and water and even North sea oil were liabilities then you are not looking for a answer your just playing silly b*****s.
Give it up carrots you lost, or are going to join ppl and criticise my spelling typing or grammer to try to win your agument in the same way that you have been doing with, to be pacific derek, we all make spelling mistakes and typo's some more than others but we all do it.
While browsing through these posts looking to see what lists you were on about I saw so many posts with mistakes in them of the type mentioned above that I thought I might compile a list of them and make up what do they call them out takes, but then I thought some sniffling so and so would soon have it moderated.
Complain about this comment
re: 163
Don't be silly grandy I don't hate you, I just think you've been brainwashed by a corrupt government. I pity you for being taken in so easily.
Complain about this comment
I find it amazing; no even Mugabe like for a democratic political party to deny a leadership election as set out in its own rulebook by refusing to distribute nomination papers when asked. Will the next move be to call a General Election but only accept Labour party nominations?
The NEC should be ashamed of themselves. They should go because the clearly don't understand democracy within their own organisation.
Complain about this comment
The gamble is to lay the blame for his troubles on the global financial crisis and steep price rises of commodities namely food and oil.
The problem with this is the smell of greedy people in large organisations taking huge uncontrollable gambles lingers on and by implication our government regulators the FSA has failed to regulate. For example they have allowed financial institutions to lend money to people who could not afford it or were borrowing vast sums relative to their incomes on highly over valued assets or both.
In short the Government has stood by and watched as Financial Institutions have led us to the edge of a fianancial precipice. The lord alone knows how many will fall over the edge but rest assured this crisis is far from over.
Complain about this comment
View these comments in RSS