Political journey
On board the train to Birmingham: Never before has any one train seen quite so much political traffic. I am travelling with the Tory leader David Cameron up to Birmingham to make a Panorama to be broadcast at the time of the Tory conference.
By remarkable coincidence, the cabinet and the prime minister are making the same journey. One cabinet minister brushed past Mr Cameron and myself on his way through first class to make the point perhaps that in these straightened times, he and other members of Gordon Brown's top team would be travelling standard class. I'm told that word went round on Whitehall that that might be a wise thing to do.
Happily perhaps, for Mr Cameron and Mr Brown they managed to miss each other. Mr Cameron joking that he managed to get there first not just because he's travelling on an earlier train, but because he took his shadow cabinet to the West Midlands two years ago.
Meantime, ringing in our ears is the prime minister's declaration that "my own response to the great challenges in my own life has been to confront them, resolute in the belief that there would always be something that could be done to overcome them and there always have been".
This is, it seems, a licensed reference to those things that he so rarely likes to talk about, the loss of an eye because of a rugby accident when at school, and of course the tragic loss of his daughter a few days after she was born. The point presumably of this is, I assume, to remind people that Gordon Brown is tough, determined and can bounce back after terrible adversity. The question is whether that answers voters' concerns.
What the PM is being told by his advisors is that the public want to know his analysis of what's gone wrong and what he's going to do about it. In other words, that he is capable of self-awareness and analysis. Expect more uncharacteristic Brown introspection in the weeks to come.
I'm 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~49~RS~)
CommentsSign in
You need to sign in to contribute to this page. If you're new to BBC Blogs, creating your membership is quick and easy.
Playing the sympathy card - as Guido put it this morning - will not help Gordon Brown.
The sense I have is that the public don't care where he came from or what adversity he has faced.
The public seems to have stopped listening to him - which is very dangerous ground for any politician.
The fact that the headlines this morning are about a PM trying to rally his cabinet is also dangerous. What he should be trying to do is rally the country - whereas he is just trying to get a few people round a table to follow him. Given the last few weeks - that will be hard enough.
Gordon doesn't do humble. Gordon doesn't do sincere. Gordon does figures and statistics.
We won't see any real change from our soon to be ex Prime Minister
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Oh great. I can't wait for more doul faced resignation and determination by Gordon Brown.
As for 'rarely talked about' he seems to talk about little else these days except the death of his daughter and the loss of his eye. It's all become a bit hackneyed.
Why on earth should these things be relevant - it's like the idiotic blank space on employers' job application forms which says 'tell us about some experience that changed you'. It's all a bit 'am-dram'.
If this is the latest phase of his many relaunches then it is doomed to ridicule and failure like all the others. People want to know why NewLabour has become the new nasty party after a year of food and energy price increases. Instead we get how Gordon lost an eye?
Heaven preserve us form the madness of this fool.
Complain about this comment
Nick, please tell Mr Brown's advisors that the British public are fed up with the complacency and incompetence of the government, and that if he wants to win back any degree of popular support he should (i) resign himself, (ii) restructure his cabinet radically before he goes, (iii) have his successor create a coherent detailed anti-stagflation plan, promulgate it and stick to it. We don't need lectures from Mr B, we need competent action.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Must be fun on that train Nick. Any depressed boozers on there with you? No not new labour, I mean any, you know, binge drinkers dreaming of better days on their way to some event or other? Oh ... the new labour crowd. Mmmmm get a snap of them and post it on youtube will you?
Complain about this comment
More important than travelling 'standard' because if they booked the whole carriage it would not be very different than 'first' - did they travel on at a time when advanced cheap fares were available.
And if it had been me, I would have started my journey from Marylebone (far more civilised than Euston) and travelled to Birmingham Moor Street on a loco hauled train belonging to the Wrexham Shrewsbury and Marylebone Railway (WSMR). It is a new non franchised servcie and they make a point of looking after the passengers because it is their own money -not taxpayers.
Complain about this comment
I don't care that Gordon lost an eye playing rugby. I just care about how I am going to pay the fuel bills this winter, how I am going to fill up my car with petrol so I can travel to work, how I can afford to feed my family, etc. Until he starts coming up with solutions to those kind of problems it's just rhetoric and waffle.
Gordon, stop thinking about how you're going to save your own political skin. Please start thinking about how you can help the country cope with the economic downturn that has unfolded partly because you taxed, borrowed and spent and never thought to save.
Complain about this comment
power_to_the_ppl (#2), it wouldn't be much of a detective story, since clearly it would be the cabinet that did it.
licensed reference to those things that he so rarely likes to talk about
Can we give this a name, for example, the Hanoi Hilton gambit?
Complain about this comment
Let me get this right, Nick. The entire Cabinet is travelling to the West Midlands to hold a meeting they could have held in London where they are based, at no extra cost? The only additional feature being lots of photo opportunities and PR stunts?
Please, please Mr Brown stop thinking you can interest us in gimmicks; get back to London and sort out the mess you've created, now. The British public is not as stupid as you believe, and it knows when talk is all you can offer.
I am not an inveterate anti-Labour (and far from being a pro-Conservative) voter, but I am getting sick of the inaction, the puerility of response and the tawdry lies, deceit and sterilty of Labour in government under Mr Brown. If I hear one more 'Brown relaunch' or 'Brown vision' statement in the midst of our current economic and other problems, I'll know that he's totally lost the plot.
Stop telling me you are 'getting on with the job' and just do it - competently. Better still, go.
Complain about this comment
Youre quite wrong Nick the public dont want to know his analysis of what's gone wrong and what he's going to do about it.
We want to know when hes going to hold an election.
Complain about this comment
"No short-term gimmicks" said Brown only last week, well, with the cabinet meeting in Birmingham, that promise lasted long didn't it.
Complain about this comment
Mr Micawber?Complain about this comment
What is that they say that in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king.
I'm sorry but I can go on a journey to find the real me. This should not be a journey for a Prime Minister who should already know where he is going, because he is going to take us with him.
I don't want to go on a voyage of discovery with Gordon Brown.
In the meantime the country is flooded, the Stock Exchange is failing because it can't handle the volume of business. This country is a busted flush, and we have a 'leader' who wants to tell us about his daughter.
Tell us Gordon how many innocents have been lost in Afghanistan, how many have been killed by Predator, and Reaper. Don't forget we actually saw Prince Harry authorising a bombing mission on people who are trying to rid themselves of a foreign occupying force.
So, don't tell me about Gordon and the loss of his baby, not until he admits to all the deaths which he, and Tony Blair are responsible for.
Complain about this comment
Wow, no-one's mentioned gravy trains yet.
Complain about this comment
For a seasoned journalist who's married to a relationship councillor, Nick Robinson is beginning to develop a remarkable degree of misunderstanding. It's a matter of fact that the INTJ type tends to be very reflective and sensitive to the world around them. So, I'm just writing this topic off as trying it on from someone who's leaping on the bandwagon.
My general feeling is that the Prime Minister just needs to trim the strategic and market sensitivity, and focus more on the practical and social. That involves a certain amount of inner kung-fu, but if anyone can break his own bones to take on another shape, it's someone with the character of the Prime Minister. He will do what is necessary even if it kills him.
I'm hoping the Prime Minister can ditch the conference speech itis and develop some more theatrical ability in time for his keynote. This isn't a gimmick or spin but a necessary shift in presentation skills to connect with folks and draw out the more relevant angles. It took star performers like Les Dawson a lifetime to hone. The Prime Minister has a week.
Complain about this comment
I don't know whether to be more surprised by the phrase "these straightened times" (has time become less curly or something?) or the fact that none of the first ten people posting comments has been pedantic enough to point out the difference between "straightened" and "straitened"... ;)
Complain about this comment
#13
No, just very pompous.
Complain about this comment
"What the PM is being told by his advisors is that the public want to know his analysis of what's gone wrong and what he's going to do about it. In other words, that he is capable of self-awareness and analysis."
As a member of this public I can safely say that his advisors are wrong.
My only interest in Gordon Brown now concerns two main questions - when are we getting are general election, and when are we getting our referendum on the Lisbon Treaty?
Until these two issues are addressed, everything Gordon and his advisors do or say is irrelevant. And a little patronising.
Complain about this comment
Now I think that people really ought to look at the Ed Balls interview on the Andrew Marr show on Sunday, because this is important, no it is, its really important and you mustn't interrupt because it is IMPORTANT.
I mean we have seen the end of laissez faire economics, even the Americans have given up, Freddie Mac and Fanny Mae, is just the tip of the iceberg, the very one which sank the Titanic, and is going to sink Gordon and the rest of them.
Maybe Gordon ought to be relaunched on the rivers which are now in flood, they will carry him away, just like the electorate will when we eventually have 'this' election. I say 'this' because that is how it was referred to by the important Ed Balls. Does it mean we can expect a formal announcement sooner, rather than later.
Complain about this comment
Nick -
From my perspective no amount of spin, rebranding or penitence is going to cut it for this government.
I don't even care if they get rid of the unelected foreigner we have as prime minister.
I hope you guys in the media will be focussing on what real change in their disastrous POLICIES comes out of this.
Complain about this comment
His advisors are wrong. What the public want is for him to resign and/or call a general election. Now.
I couldn't give a damn about his personal struggles. He is politically inept.
Complain about this comment
David Cameron recently held a public meeting at a school local to me,in what's been called a deprived area and a safe Labour constituency...or at least as safe as any are these days.The meeting was advertised in the local paper and an e-mail address was published for those with questions who couldn't make it.There was no mass Police presence,he didn't alert the national media and actually got to meet locals.Contrast this with Brown's meeting today which 5 live have have reported as a mass scrum of media and security people,costing how much Gordon? Local people here compared Mr Cameron's local meeting with the behaviour of their local M.P.,a lady who only ever turns up to be photographed at local Primary Schools,was parachuted in at the last election at the cost of a very popular and hard-working local council member and is best known for being caught having an affair with someone else's husband.Whatever his faults,and no I'm not a Tory,locals were impressed that Cameron had turned up and actually met local people in an area that often feels forgotten in a low key manner.The local Labour M.P. dosn't live here and most wouldn't recognise her if she knocked on their door,Labour have made a massive mistake forgetting the grass roots,the "little people" who traditionally vote for them.They'll probably still win Devonport next time but Mr Cameron's couple of hours here made a very positive impression,even those who had no wish to see him appreciated that he made the effort.
Complain about this comment
How nice the BBC funds first class rail travel for you Mr Robinson,as for Mr Cameron i would expect nothing less.
Complain about this comment
Gordon can be introspective - but I think he has lost the public.
They might feel some sympathy for his personal circumstances but they will not elect him as PM.
For many people Gordon is these things:
- A man without a plan
- A poor leader
- Not decisive
- Unprepared
- A serial loser
- Disconnected from reality
- Tainted by his fight to topple Blair
- Questionable record as Chancellor
- Unelectable
Complain about this comment
1 simonofoxford A typical Tory response I didn't see anything in Nicks introduction that said that Gordon had mentioned anything about losing his eye or the trajic loss of his daughter, all that I saw concerning that was a little unkind conjecture by Nick Robinson.
Complain about this comment
The only folks demanding that are ones caught up in their own anger and populism. It's a typical right wing mentality that's rattling the bars of the cage. Anyone who falls for that tub thumping and hot air is just buying into fear and greed.
The Tories have put up a lot of front and pretend to have clean hands but it's obvious to anyone this is just another cynical political campaign. All we need are a few smashed windows and "war veterans" to complete the image of a putsch.
The elephant in the room is the real fear of the Tories, and their big business and media pals, that this campaign won't win. If folks just follow a non-competitive and sensible grass roots strategy the storm will blow over and the sun will shine.
Complain about this comment
3 Robin JD once again the usual Tory exageration I have only ever heard Gordon Brown once mention the loss of his daughter and never the loss of the sight of his eye, dont use trajic events in anyone's life to try to score what you think are politcal points. I promise you it doesn't enhance your character and some one like you cant afford that.
Complain about this comment
13. oldnat
Spot on
Welcome poverty..Welcome misery, welcome houselessness, welcome hunger, rags, tempest, and beggary!
Mutual confidence will sustain us to the end
Complain about this comment
21 Jon i'm 12, UK.Is that your pseodonym if it is, it makes your absurd post seem reasonable.
Complain about this comment
Er Nick,
What is the purpose of this visit and who is paying. Presumably rooms were rented and travel paid for. Just to have a meeting which could have been held in the usual office.
Good grief. I thought the country was a bit short of the readies? and about to enter recession. What is this Govt playing at? What planet are they on?
Complain about this comment
There once was a man with one eye.
Nothings my fault he did cry,
But the public new better
he'd made the country a Debtor
Next comes the Mutiny like Bligh!
Complain about this comment
#27
The only elephant in the room at the moment is Gordon Brown himself and no one in the NewLabour party dares to say what they really think - that he is a born loser.
Complain about this comment
23 Devonportdave
I've just looked at your MPs record. Not very impressive. Certainly toes the party line but she is an Assistant Whip.
27 Charles - this government and big business are inseparable. Why otherwise do they consistentally act to make things difficult for the small businesses.
Complain about this comment
jonathan_cook at #25, you are exactly right. Can I add to the list that he is also perceived as being unable to connect with ordinary people? Remember this is a man that thinks it is normal to call voters at home to discuss government policy but won't visit the seat of a by-election contest.
And grandantidote please remember that people here are not necessarily voicing opinions based on a party alliegance (I for one am not). They are concerned at the continuing ineptitude and complacency of their government. Mr Brown personally is certainly not improving their perceptions. As simonofoxford at #1 said eloquently, people are pretty much ignoring the man these days.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I've just read about the government getting behind developing the market for 'green products'. This should help create a massive home market and serious export potential as big as the Japanese post WWWII renaissance. As surely as Japan owns the home entertainment market, Britain can own the green market.
Where's the Tory response? They have no serious business development goals apart from giving the CBI a free hand and providing soap kitchen for people on the wrong side of 'efficiency savings'. That's just more Thatcherism in my book, and we know how that ruined the country and set people against each other.
The Brown Doctrine is the most single, clear, and powerful antidote to the broken social and economic fundamentals Britain has to deal with. Folks have a binary choice of going back down the same old failed path, or to embrace a Manhattan style project to put Britain back into the big league. That decision's a no brainer in my book.
Complain about this comment
23 devonport dave, The reason that your Dave didn't get the attention that you obviously thought he should have is because the press didn't consider him important enough.
[clever if unpleasant people these press photographers].
The reason that Gordon wasn't able to wander around and meet the people was because of the press surrounding him, it would have been unfair to those people wishing to talk to him to be jostled around by the press as they certainly would have been.
The security surrounding Gordon might be because he is the Prime minister of this country and there have been death threats recently or didn't you in your admiration for Dave know that.
Complain about this comment
It's not a Cabinet Meeting. Brown is on the TV.
Complain about this comment
I hate saying this, but Gordon Brown's - 'I see no ships' method of turning a blind eye to problems is not a realistic path to follow.
I have the greatest respect for anyone living with a severe visual impediment but simply not to see the suffering of others as the direct result, of policy, or of matters outside your control, such as the economy does not help and will be punished by the electorate.
George Bush found this out with hurricane Katrina and New Orleans. The British propensity to vanish under water at the slightest downpour every year is another problem not of Gordon Brown's making but with which he will be blamed.
Similarly offering badly paid civil servants just a 2 percent cost of living increase when they are experiencing double digit inflation of essentials is not a viable position.
The public will not want to pay mores taxes nor can he borrow more, but he should seriously contemplate cutting back on unnecessary things like ID cards so that he can pay his (our) staff properly.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#28
So did you not see the programme on one of the television channels where we learnt about the life of Gordon, where he was a promising rugby player but lost the sight in one eye.
Did we not get news reports on the sad loss of his daughter. How do I know about his daughter, through the news.
Do I know if the child of Tony Blair had the MMR jab, no, I don't. Do I know if any of Gordon's family have the MMR jab, no, should I, well maybe I should or maybe I shouldn't.
Will the daughter of Tony Blair give publicity as to whether or not she has had the latest jab for young girls preventing some form of cancer.
I think you get the gist of what I am saying. Should our politicians really make life changing policy amendments based on their own experiences rather than the empirical evidence supporting change.
Gordon thinks he is entitled to be our Prime Minister because he agreed it with Tony Blair. That is why no amount of launches or relaunches will change the irrefutable fact that Gordon has never faced the electorate as Prime Minister, he is not a President, so I personally can never vote for or against him. He totally lacks any legitimacy, we know it, he knows it, and he is guilty of paternalism at its worst, he tries to be our father figure, he fails miserably. He must go, or call an election, soon.
Complain about this comment
31 blogpolice Well what was Cameron doing there atleast labour went second class unlike good old Dave.
Complain about this comment
Well I'm one of the "public" Nick mentions in his last paragraph, and I'd like to say what I really want: I want somebody, in fact anybody, with a plan. Even a Tory.
It appears clear that the PM and Cabinet don't know what to do. Unfortunately, the opposition have given no indication that they have any idea what to do, either.
We already have Brown, who, lest we forget, came in on a wave of "Hurrah! He's not Blair!" euphoria. I'm afraid that the same will happen with Cameron within a year of the election. "Hurrah! He's not Brown!" but unfortunately, without any tangible policies, his Government will be no different to the incumbent.
I beg, plead and implore Mr Cameron to come up with some policies. This will put him ahead of Labour by some distance, no matter what those policies are! If he persists in hoping that he will win the election just by not being Labour then things simply cannot improve.
Complain about this comment
"In other words, that he is capable of self-awareness and analysis."
I think he is self-aware, those kinds of people are usually very self-aware indeed, although they'll deny their own self-analysis publicy as they know it'll count against them if they tell people what they honestly think.
What he isn't is "other-aware", and it's that lack of awareness/empathy of anything outside his own personal situation that's so damaging to the country.
He does physically know about things outside his own personal situation, it's just that he chooses to ignore them because they don't relate directly to him.
The only time he'll ever consider situations outside his own personal situation is when he knows that his own political survival is at risk if he ignored them.
This was demonstrated perfectly with the 10pct tax fiasco, where he knew full well the damage, but refused to admit it until his own survival was at threat.
Now he's using personal tragedy as a way of gaining public sympathy for his professional incompetence. That's another perfect example of his kind of psychological make-up (emotional blackmail to get what you want).
Complain about this comment
grandantidote.
Wow vicious very vicious. Why not contribute something meaningful rather than resort to personal attacks.
Complain about this comment
Brown is blind in one eye and refuses to see out of the other.
He is deaf to any criticism.
Alas, he is not dumb (in the British sense of lacking the faculty of speech) and will, therefore, bore us all to death with his 'determination in the face of adversity'.
More like 'delusion in the face of reality'.
Does not anyone in his cabinet or inner circle have the guts to tell him just how despised he is with the public at large?
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I presume the reason my last post is refered is because we shouldnt inflict Gordon on Gloucester even if he does do what Dr Foster did
Complain about this comment
The problem with having only one eye is that you have do depth perception,
That is mainly the reason that GB doesnt see how far into the doo doo he has got the country
Complain about this comment
re: 41 grandantidote
I didn't post that particular poem, open your eyes!
Complain about this comment
Maybe Gordon Brown should look across the Atlantic to Canada. the Prime Minister called a surprise(strange concept here, I know) snap election in the hope that it may increase his seats to an overall majority.
At least one Western Political leader has "Balls" and not the Education Secretary type either!
Complain about this comment
How typical of a Nick Robinson blog entry an that is a trimuph of style over substance.
Who gives a fig about what happened on the train upto the west midlands. Qudos to both lots for taking the time to get out of the westminster bubble.
We live in interesting times Nick, it belittles the BBC as an institution that you continue to focus as Chief Politcal correspondant on the froth and ignore the all to real meat of how we manage our political affairs amidst very real economic and social concerns.
Complain about this comment
What a pathetic little publicity stunt it's turning out to be.
It maybe all smiles for the cameras but no wonder they are all so glum in Brum:
http://theorangepartyblog.blogspot.com/2008/09/smile-were-not-glum-in-brum.html
Complain about this comment
It was probably just as well that they never met in the corridor - all those negative ions could have caused a breach in the space time continuum!
You have got to admit that neither Brown nor cameron are overwhelming the electorate with a rush of new thinking, great ideas re worked or radicalism - something which this age cries out for.
We seem to lack the great visionaries and story tellers - Castles, Wilsons, Benns, Powells, Heseltines and on and on who had a real story to tell.
Where are all our story tellers today?
Complain about this comment
Character is important. It does Brown no harm at all to show that he has overcome personal adversity in becoming Prime Minister. In the United States the Republican candidate is going to base his entire campaign on his personal experiences and how they have formed his character.
This is overdue. Brown is a fundamentally decent man - as well as being of outstanding intellect. Those who denigrate him here would do so irrespective of what he stands for or where he has come from.
Complain about this comment
there is a perfectly good cabinet office at Downing Street and another at Chequers - how much extra does it cost the taxpayer in these straightened times to hold the cabinet meetinin Birmingham?
Complain about this comment
TAG I think that it was Andrew Marr who I normally like who was out of order he must have been sucking on his thesaurus in his sleep as he obviously had a severe case of verbal diarrhoea and seemed very reluctant to let Ed Balls answer any question he asked, it didn't come as no surprise to me that Ed said listen this is important it was the only way he could get Marr to shut up for a few seconds.
Complain about this comment
The Prime Minister is a 'high value target' for pretty much any scuzzbal and nutter. Getting on with the job without allowing that shower to get in the way is hard at the best of times. I doubt anyone posting in here could cope with it any better.
I've put my neck on the line for other folks in much more modest situations and paid for it. Meanwhile, some mouth posting on a 'high attention' blog can make claims but there's no accountability, and they can dive back into the herd at any moment.
This is the real world versus the internet. Government and the media are no different. Folks doing real work have to get it right but if you can change your mind like you change your socks without penalty you can always look good, at least, on paper.
Complain about this comment
51 ppl apologies, I'm so used to seeing hordes of your daft poems that I inadvertantly thought it was one of yours. so what did you think of it, bet you wont say anything nasty about Pot kettle.
Complain about this comment
There is a counter argument that somebody who has 'bounced back' from terrible adversity, for example, John McCain, of whom, probably everybody in the world knows was tortured by the Viet Cong during that war; should be automatically disqualified from high public office.
On the grounds that their 'painful experiences' may distort their judgement.
Even people who saw terrible things, for example Ted Heath, it could be argued, had his judgement so distorted that he became 'economical with the actualite' in his determination to get us into the EU.
Therefore, Gordon Brown needs to be careful in pushing this angle (not that it will save his political skin in this job).
Complain about this comment
Can I suggest the next cabinet day-trip sees them going to Mars.
They can go first class, I'm sure we can raise the cash as part of Comic Relief
Complain about this comment
47 septic max. that lastlsentence could have been wrtten about you and it carries my sentiments exactly regarding you.
Complain about this comment
We've all known about the loss of his eye and the tragic loss of his daughter for a long time now. Many of us including the relatives and loved ones of soldiers killed and severely injured in Iraq have suffered far worse. Without in any way meaning to belittle his sufferings it has little relevance to the political situation as it stands today. It is merely another attempt to try and gain sympathy and squeeze more support from his colleagues and the General Public.
Complain about this comment
Folks have a binary choice of going back down the same old failed path, or to embrace a Manhattan style project to put Britain back into the big league. That decision's a no brainer in my book.
Gordon Brown is going to nuke us?
Figures. We can only hope he misses and hits France.
Complain about this comment
re: 56 peteholly
"Brown is a fundamentally decent man - as well as being of outstanding intellect. Those who denigrate him here would do so irrespective of what he stands for or where he has come from. "
I don't care where he came from or what he "stands for". What I care about is whether or not he's capable of doing his job, and he's plainly not as he has no understanding of basic economics or maths or logic and he refuses to listen to anyone who doesn't agree with everything he says. If that's seen as a "towering intellect" in the uk then we might as well all go live in another country.
Complain about this comment
#53 Sotonblogger
I agree that Nick can sometimes become a little too involved in the political gossip and not focus on the issues but most of the time I think he is a very competent political correspondent.
I take your point but we could have someone a lot worse. There are some very very bad journalists at the BBC these days (not naming any names) who seem to think their job description involves sensationalising every event so that the populace is worked up into a frenzy. No, their job is to give an objective account of the events.
Complain about this comment
Peteholly, you are right, GB is a decent bloke, but that doesn't make him good at the job of being prime minister.
Now I must go to work.
Complain about this comment
#56 peteholly
On what do you base your assertion that Brown is an "outstanding intellect"? I'm interested because I have heard a lot of people say this but I have seen very little evidence of this being the case.
Complain about this comment
Some mixed messages coming from the mobile Lemming Cabinet... They are telling us to eat less food, use less electricity, wear extra socks and willi-warmers (ok, that last bit's mine) and save our money because it's going to be a hard winter... and then they all jump onto the train (at our expense) for a meeting they could have had in London...
And the economy is safe in their hands...?
Good grief!! :)
Complain about this comment
46. SecondSpanners
To quote one of grandys greatest heros:
I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left.
Margaret Thatcher
Complain about this comment
#58
grandantidote, I know exactly what you mean but on the basis of what Balls was saying he seemed to be trying to put down the conservatives rather than answer a legitimate question.
I think that the commentators have worked out that to keep blaming the global economy, when there has been a global economy, well for ever since there was commerce, is actually no longer working with the electorate.
No, it is not only Balls who tries this tack, listen to Hazel Blears, she does the same, in fact just like they try to convey some sort of link with a church in the way they hold their hands, or use the term, this is important.
Don't forget that another two building societies have been today been merged with the Nationwide.
Exactly why do we still see the Northern Rock logo on the shirts of Newcastle United, surely we are not still paying for their sponsorship, even though they are now nationalised. Surely not becaus eof votes in the North East.
Complain about this comment
re: 60
Ah yes the heavenly nectar of an apology from one of Labour's most ardent supporters. How sweet it tastes.
Nope I'm not going to say anything bad about the poem, I agree completely with its sentiment.
Complain about this comment
The UK is being battered by some very nasty economics. It's not just us, it's the whole of the West ... chickens roosting, bills to be paid, party over, bla bla bla ... all cliches, all true.
We (along with the US) will be hit harder than most because we partied (along with the US) the hardest. The Footsie will decline by around 50% over the next 3 years ... sorry, but that has to happen. There's no point moaning about it and it's silly to look to Gordon or the Darling for any answers. It's got next to nothing to do with them. They have no answers and nor does Dodgy Dave.
Brown has been way overpraised in the past for our falsely inflated living standards and, by the same token, he's being overcriticised now.
Long term, the current mess is a very good thing because it will bring our standard of living down to a level which is consistent with the value we actually add. I'm also praying that it leads to a junking of the western model of unfettered free market capitalism ... I mean, we couldn't go on living off the backs of the developing world forever, could we? It's not nice to be a parasite, is it?
Complain about this comment
37 - CEH
You mention the 'Brown Doctrine" as being a single and clear antidote.
What is this doctrine? I have never heard GB outline the single or clear vision that you describe.
If GB has a doctrine, he hasn't succeeded in communicating it to people.
He certainly hasn't managed to convince the wider populous that his vision and delivery plan have merit.
Complain about this comment
I've just read the latest wheeze by George Osborne and it confirms my view the Tories have no economic plan other than give a free hand to the CBI and soup kitchens to the rest. I notice there's nothing to cut tax loopholes or making rich shareholders take some of the strain. Anyone who buys that Kool-Aid is asking to have their ass handed to them on a plate.
The Tories soft policy announcement just betrays the fact they don't have anything, and are treating the unions like another bunch of suckers. Their campaign trick of beating their way in the door is being called, and they're making policy up on the hoof to 'prove' they have the stones to deliver. In reality, it's just another opportunistic argument but where's the goals and effort? Sorry, guys. There's no such thing as a free lunch.
1. Where's the business development?
2. Where's wealth creation?
3. Where's the reality?
Complain about this comment
42 Tag, you state
"Did we not get news reports on the sad loss of his daughter. How do I know about his daughter, through the news."
That rather proves my point not yours, or did Gordon read the news that night.
Regarding injections. No none of that is any business of yours or mine.
Had the death of his daughter not been reported heaven knows what the press would have done with it when they found out.
It would be extremely dificult for anyone no matter what position they hold in life not to be influenced in some way by the loss of a child so young. those that have will tell you that, I lost a boy at 7 year old and it changed my outlook on life completely and I still go to his graveside regularly after 45 years.
I dont want to hear from you about all the people dying in the world I think we have all had enough of that from you, your last paragraph is TAGspeak I'm sure you edit it for almost daily use,
Incidentally I did see the program you refer to, it would hardly of made sense if there had been no reference to the loss of his eye, now would there.
Complain about this comment
It's too far gone for GB to regain any credibility, whatever his personal experience or attributes. He'd have to admit that the public finances are a complete mess (not even Darling came clean about that) and that while the credit crunch may not be of the governments making, neither was the extraordinary global boom that the UK economy rode on the back of for the first 10 years in office, and for which GB was so quick to take credit. The man just doesn't do humility.
And the oft repeated claim (by Balls, Cooper et al) that GB was the 'greatest Chancellor of the modern era/ever' is as hollow as it is insulting to the vast number of UK citizens now struggling to make ends meet.
Complain about this comment
#53 - Most unfair. Nick spends too much time in the Westminster villiage, but he is a great correspondent.
#56 / #66.
Brown's main contribution to the intellectual life of our country seems to have been his pamphlet (published as a student,) telling people how to live on benefits without working.
Since then he has ghosted a couple of forgettable books with single figure readerships.
His only non-political job (real) has been as an undistinguished polytechnic lecturer.
There is no begining to his talents.
Complain about this comment
#76 I agree that cutting tax loop-holes is something that needs to be done.
I would address your three queries thus:
1. The Conservative policy to give more free rein to businesses, less red tape and less reliance on the State should help to develop business.
2. Stripping down the public sector will help this. The public sector burgeons under a Labour government which leads to the creation of non-jobs which do little to create wealth.
3. The reality is that the government debt levels are high and rising. Leaving Northern Rock aside for the moment I think the debt level is slightly less than in May 1997 but the debt was falling then (it is rising now) and we have had 11 years of economic growth so you would think that government debt would be much lower than in 1997 due to the takings in tax. This constrains conservative policy. That which they will inherit in 2010 is getting worse by the week.
Complain about this comment
# peteholly
His outstanding intellect isn't, and hasn't ever been visible to me. If it's there why can't he wake up, smell the coffee and damn well use it?
Complain about this comment
The Tories soft policy announcement just betrays the fact they don't have anything, and are treating the unions like another bunch of suckers.
Worked for Tony Blair. Just vague vacuous soundbites followed by an artillary barrage the next time Major would screw up. That's what you're seeing this time. Just vague 'aspirations', 'goals', etc etc. And then as soon as the next Labour clanger (and, lets be honest, they're ten a apenny at the minute) comes along WHOOOOSH another airstrike.
Too easy.
Labour are where the Tories were in 1995. They are treated with loathing, pity and contempt and they are going to get the hiding of their lives in 201. It would be better for Labour to go to the polls now and saddle Cameron with this recession. they could even claim, with all the gall that has characterised their reign of disingenuity, that they didn't have a recession. After all, it hasn't hit yet.
But I suspect the two hundred or so never-to-be-elected-again Labour MPs just want another 18 months of pay and pension contributions before they shuffle of back to be the never-weres that they were always destined to be.
Good. Every extra day of this hostage crisis drives the message further into the voters brains. This is a government of all the huxters.
Complain about this comment
#27
"The only folks demanding that are ones caught up in their own anger and populism. It's a typical right wing mentality that's rattling the bars of the cage. Anyone who falls for that tub thumping and hot air is just buying into fear and greed.
The Tories have put up a lot of front and pretend to have clean hands but it's obvious to anyone this is just another cynical political campaign."
What strikes me as a cynical political campaign is that Liebour won the last election with a manifesto promise of a referendum, which they then decided against when they realised that the poor British public aren't intelligent enough to vote the way their political masters want them to.
Nobody's saying that the Tories are whiter than white, and I'm certainly not saying that any political party is for that matter.
But one feature of this shameful excuse for a Parliament that had repeated itself again and again (as it does in your post) is the dismissal of anyone's alternative views as either racist, sexist, pick-your-own-minority-ist, or God forbid, "right wing". Either that or they're dismissed on the basis that they either read the Sun or the Daily Mail (neither of which I read, incidentally)
Denying people the right to their own opinions simply because they differ from your own is facism, pure and simple. But it's been the cornerstone of the last 11 years of government, so the sooner we finally receive our democratic rights at the ballot box again, the better.
At the moment this country would be better off in the hands of primary school children.
Complain about this comment
I routinely explain and give time to folks, but if they just want argue and posture there's nothing I can do. Talk is cheap but you can't duck a demonstration. Zen has a saying: "This cannot be taught" (or you can't win an argument on the internet).
If the government knocks themselves into shape, folks will get a clue soon enough. For the Phd analyst types, they only have to focus on the 1% thought leaders of the 30% they want to win. The rest will follow or be left behind.
I'm generally relaxed about this. The Tories are putting up some "clever" arguments and "kissing asses" but they know what the score is. I figure, even if they win they'll have to confront their karma. It's not pretty and they won't enjoy it.
Who knows what is good or bad, etcetera.
Complain about this comment
#76 CEH
1 and 2 are completely invisible
3 Much easier, quite a long story but I'll try and be brief. The reality is right now,
Bliar and El Gordo have conspired to ruin the lives of millions of people through a mixture of contempt and indifference.
Brown hasn't lost the plot, I doubt if one existed to start with.
Complain about this comment
I'm sorry that Gordon Brown lost a child. I wouldn't wish it on anybody.
However that doesn't mean that we should cut him any more slack than any other person who wishes to rifle our pockets and squander hundreds of billions in pursuit of more than a couple of lines in the history books.
He'll get his lines in the history book before this is finished and that's for sure. I'm pretty certain they won't be the lines he's envisioned while he was bankrolling three election victories on borrowed money though.
It'll read:
Gordon Brown Chancellor 1997-2007, Prime Minster 2007-2010. Gordon Brown presided over the largest single increase in national debt in the history of British Government. This was squandered on ill-advised pet projects as part of the governments social engineering agenda. There are no surviving buildings from this unprecedented era of squandering. He died a broken man, unenobled and unlamented.
That's if there is any such thing as a God or karma at all.
Complain about this comment
I found this quote from David Miliband quite amusing:
"I am absolutely convinced that Gordon can lead us to victory. He has enormous values, drive and vision and I think we are going to prove people wrong,"
The key part to it being that part of the last sentence; ie that he admits that nobody in the country thinks that Brown/Labour are competent.
The "everybody else in the country is wrong, but I am right" attitude being expressed helps illustrate things quite nicely when it comes to Brown/Labour.
If everybody else on the planet is wrong, but you think that you are right, then you're either on a different planet to everyone else or you're delusional or you're lying.
"7 billion people don't agree with what I say about x, and I'm the only person who thinks x, but I still think I'm right about x"
I don't think so; I think it's logically more likely that the 7 billion people are correct, and that you're wrong.
Complain about this comment
@74
The big problem with the "overpraising" of GB is that HE claimed the credit for it, and now he claims its not his fault.
Well which is it? was he in charge of the economy or not? If he was, the credit is his and the debit is his, if he wasnt in charge of the economy then I may concede its not his fault.
trouble is he wants his cake and eat it too! and all the while we should feel sorry for him because he's a victim of global circumstance.
Well I'm sorry, I'm a victim of his Tax and waste policy along with many others and until I see some sympathy coming my way from him he will be getting none from me!
Complain about this comment
*17 jamesscotland
Thanks a lot. I was actually contemplating whether there might be potential irony involved in Nick's phrase "these straightened times"... -:)
Complain about this comment
71 carrots Well thanks a million this remark has made my day, all the remarks we get on a daily basis from tory bloggers are answered by this one paragraph and from the last person in the world that you would expect.
So what we can say with confidence as it comes from the great Tory icon herself is that all those who use this long list of personal attacks on Gordon Brown such as Mr Bean. Mr Broon. Mc Broon. dour you know all the names I'm not going to gratify the name callers hear by rattling out their insults they know who they are.
so dear old Maggie says,
I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left.
so think on all you Tory name callers Maggie thinks as I do that you are completely bereft of any political argument and that includes Dave Cameron as the only thing that I have heard from him is name calling, nothing about politics. thankyou carrots I shall retain this remark and like you I will post it to you on another occasion.
Complain about this comment
76. Charles_E_Hardwidge
Every new government is constrained by the economic policies of the previous one. Its hard to do much else, economies are like oil tankers, hard to turn.
Brown stuck rigidly to Ken Clarkes spending plans for just over 2 years. It was, in fact, during this period that he attained his reputation for prudence.
Well to be fair this and the trumpeting of the so called golden rules which I for one quite liked. Until of course they all went south with Prudence.
Typical socialist policy of tax, borrow, waste and squander eventually surfaced and here we are today. Hit by a global down turn and the cupboard is bare. No one is listening to him any longer.
It is not the Tories job to outline an economic rescue plan its Browns. Blair offered very little policy before he was elected and Cameron has no doubt learnt the tactic from the Spin Master.
Cameron just has to sit tight and watch Brown whack nail after nail his own coffin lid.
Complain about this comment
You may get an election earlier than you thought if Kilfoyle's argument holds. Cameron may be well advised to get some policies together!
Complain about this comment
Nick, this is what our friend Mr. Peston had to say about the GLOBAL financial difficulties of the present time.
Quote - The US Government is in effect nationalising North America's two biggest providers of finance for the housing market, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Their regulator, the Federal Housing Finance Agency, is taking direct control of them under a system known as "conservatorship".
This is an event of profound significance for the global economy, since these two eccentric institutions own or guarantee almost £3000bn of US mortgages.
Banks, including some of the world's most important central banks, have direct and substantial financial exposure to both Fannie and Freddie.
So, given the febrile state of markets across the world,- - unquote.
Across the world? What? Do we have a Global financial problem?
So Nick, what does boy Dave has to say about Banks being nationalised in the biggest capitalist systems in the world?
USA turning into Communists, or what?
Looks like the Tories have not yet learnt their lesson, that in these times of Global financial problems, the likes of which seen in the 30s, do not require someone that played havoc with our economy in September 1992, when NONE of these financial black clouds even existed!
Complain about this comment
peteholly @56 wrote:
"Brown is a fundamentally decent man - as well as being of outstanding intellect.".
He is neither. And one has to be either blind, deluded or a liar to say so.
Complain about this comment
73 ppl Then ppl I apologise as I said for the mistake except for the one word for which I withdraw my apology, Idiot.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I've just read a comment by Bruce Anderson in The Independent, and it just gets behind the idea that big business, the Tories, and the feral media are in their death throws. The world is changing and people like that don't get it. So, they tell lies and oppose for oppositions sake.
The tub thumpers and vested interests want to return us to a world where management has the right to manage, the toffs assume they have a divine right to rule, and the feral media is entitled to its circulation figures. Big surprise, dudes: it ain't written in stone.
Eurasia can survive a complete decoupling from the US economy over a three year period. Anyone who's informed and aware of the rest of the world knows this. If Labour persist they'll be in time to inherit a recovery and the success that goes with that.
Say it ain't so.
Complain about this comment
sagamix @74 wrote:
"It's not nice to be a parasite, is it?"
Speak for yourself, Buddy.
I don't exploit the developing world, their leaders and NGOs do that well enough.
I also don't work for the government.
Complain about this comment
Say it ain't so.
It ain't so. Does that help?
Complain about this comment
I just do not understand this intense Tory anger at Brown. The current mess (and it is a mess) is caused by unfettered free market capitalism ... exactly the sort of thing that you guys are meant to believe in! Surely you can see that?
I mean, let's pose a question ... has the abject state of the UK economy got most to do with;
1. the greed and stupidity of the banks?
or
2. labour spending too much on the NHS?
(a clue: answer #2 is the wrong answer and you fail the test).
Complain about this comment
90. grandantidote
Delighted to be of service..
See the old girl had her uses.
I wonder if I cna enlighten you with any more of her teachings.
Complain about this comment
It seems to me that GB spent nearly 10 years building a house of cards that is now crumbling in the rain. The mitigation that 'it is outside our control' didn't stop France controlling domestic power prices, nor the Euro zone controlling inflation by using a variety of means. GB and his puppet bank have one tool in their box and can't decide how to use that.
Please Gordon, if you are half the man you think you are, do the honourable thing......GO
Complain about this comment
97. Charles_E_Hardwidge
Bruce Anderson also said of GB today:
No cavalry can save Brown now
If the rumours are right, he plans to deploy the most remarkable wonder-weapon in his speech to the Labour conference. He is going to sound humble. It might seem that he has as much chance of bringing that off as he does of singing counter-tenor at Covent Garden: that he must be absolutely desperate even to contemplate such a bizarre miscasting: that if he did try, his speech would turn into the first pantomime performance of the 2008 Christmas season. But it would be worth watching.
Poor old Gordon: to be reduced to mimicking Uriah Heap, whose conversion to humility did occur in a cell, and not a comfortable one. As John Major could tell Mr Brown, there is only so much any premier or leader can do. Once his party refuses to be led, that is that. In the Labour Party today, as with the Tories in the mid-90s, the inmates are in firm control of the lunatic asylum.
Fantastic stuff and I will be watching. :-)
Complain about this comment
2. labour spending too much on the NHS?
(a clue: answer #2 is the wrong answer and you fail the test).
Answer 2 is the right answer. And you know it.
Answer 2 was cut a bit short though, it ain't the full story is it?
It's spending too much money on the NHS, a laughable pay settlement where the GMC took you to the cleaners, tens if not 100's of billions of PFI nightmares hidden in ledgers just waiting for Osbourne to find, tax credits, the salaries of one million extra government make-weights employed to massage the unemployment figures etc etc.
All that 400bn plus of extra borrowing just washing around the system. One million extra government make-weights hired practically overnight in 2001/2002 and handed a big fat salary to go and pump up the price of available accomodation. Which they promptly did.
So yes, it was the government and their boorowed and squandered billions that pump-primed the last eight years of house price lunacy and consumer lead 'prosperity'. And we shouldn't let anybody forget it. Certainly we shouldn't be blaming the yanks when according to the OECD we are the only country in the G8 in recession.
Or 'uniquely placed to weather the storm' as some PM who is in total denial put it.
Black is white, war is peace, I love Big Brother.
How's tractor production this quarter?
Complain about this comment
re: 100 sagamix wrote:
"has the abject state of the UK economy got most to do with
1. the greed and stupidity of the banks?
or
2. labour spending too much on the NHS?
"
I'd argue it's due to both, plus a 3rd aspect of labour not policing the system properly regarding point 1.
It's also not the volume of spending that's necessarily the problem, it's the fact that we were borrowing to fund it, even during a boom, which is unsustainable in the long term and would inevetibly lead to financial/economic collapse in the public finances (which has now happened; we're bankrupt as a country).
Plus a 4th aspect of labour spending all the money very very badly as they have no understanding of how financial contracts should be drawn up and so lost the tax payer billions in very badly analysed business deals on pfi.
A free market is a good idea in my opinion, but you still need a government there as a safety net to ensure that the system generally doesn't get itself into such a mess through its own stupidity that the whole thing collapses. That's where Brown/Labour failed, along with virtually every other task that a government is supposed to be responsible for.
"not me guv, blame the yanks" says brown.
doesn't wash anymore.
Complain about this comment
#100
The answer is indeed 1. However that is a global problem that would have occured had Britain been a State controlled market.
The squandering of tax payers' money (on the NHS and other things) has made the government less able to weather this global storm. It has caused government debt to grow to an extent that they cannot afford to lower taxes in order to stimulate the economy. We therefore have to rely on rate cuts which will send inflation higher.
Complain about this comment
State funded Fox News is here.
Complain about this comment
Public funded Fox News is here. We have to pay to have some high pitched pin striped wind up merchant to preach to his fans on here. Can Donald and Davy Stott take over? then we would have it in stereo.
Complain about this comment
Big business and banks are howling but they're just trying to shift the blame. They pulled the same dodge during the expansion of the Wild West. It was a load of hooey back then and is the same load of hooey right now.
Labour is the only show in town for creating innovation and wealth. The Tories and their 'silent partners' in the CBI and media want a return to steam driven politics when Labour is busy creating Silicon Valley.
Britain always "has a go" then "falls flat on its ass" because it doesn't have the stones to get over the fulcrum. Gordon Brown does have the stones for it, and folks who want to succeed and give a shit know that.
Welcome to the future.
Complain about this comment
IS it just me, or Does Brown sound like Canute.
When faced with the tide coming in I face it resolutely because in the past when I have faced adversity I have beleived that something would come along to bail me out, and it always has.
Good luck stopping the tide Gordon!
Complain about this comment
Uriah Heep
The character is notable for his cloying humility, obsequiousness, and general insincerity.
Uriah explains that his ambition and greed are fueled by his lack of ability to express it during his childhood because of his father who constantly encouraged him to be "humble".
This lack of correct psychological and social development perpetuated by his father led Uriah to become the scheming and greedy person he is as an adult. Uriah works as Mr. Wickfield's clerk, and by blackmailing Mr. Wickfield he gains control over most of his life and business.
He eventually succeeds in having himself made a full partner in the business.
Towards the end of the novel, he is last seen in prison where we find that he has returned to his "humble" ways, and puts himself forward as a model prisoner.
Im looking forward to the model prisoner bit.
Complain about this comment
I nearly said a few topics ago: I'm developing the suspicion that Nick's mind isn't really on his job anymore. I think, his judgement has gone and he's getting too close to things. I normally defend him or let it go but things have been looking a bit funny recently: there's just too much headline chasing and iffy moderation.
If you look at the BBC's business plan, they're chasing more headlines and monitising assets than they ever have done. I suspect, the Tory plan is to allow the BBC to pull a Goldman sacks. Their reward will be a cherry picking privatisation that will make multi-millionaires of their top management and editors.
True, false, or just rumour?
Complain about this comment
grandantidote, you are 'Dirty European Socialist' and I claim my five pounds.
PS: Your lot are *still* 20 points behind.
Complain about this comment
Public funded Fox News is here. We have to pay to have some high pitched pin striped wind up merchant to preach to his fans on here. Can Donald and Davy Stott take over? then we would have it in stereo.
Labour are history. Only 18 more months. It was almost worth having the country gang-raped just so we can enjoy the shock on Blears, Harmon, Brown, Milliband, Balls etc face on late-night TV when they have their Portillo moment and realise what utter contempt we have for them too.
Almost. But to be honest I'd rather they hadn't beggered us. Again.
Complain about this comment
Looks like Brown nicked this ...
"My own response to the great challenges in
my own life has been to confront them,
resolute in the belief that there would always
be something that could be done to
overcome them
... from some bloke called Hitler ("Mein Kampf")
Thought it was bad. Thought that '97 had been a Stasi putsch. Not a Nazi one though. This guy needs dealing with quick.
Complain about this comment
I normally defend him or let it go but things have been looking a bit funny recently: there's just too much headline chasing and iffy moderation.
Like I said, 1995 all over again. The press has turned on the government. Even the BBC. The key thing here is that Robinson was travelling with todays man in First Class rather than yesterdays men in economy. Even Polly Toynbee over on the Gruaniad fired a broadside into Brown on Sunday. Well, more took a knife to him and cut his throat but you get the picture.
Labour is finished. They can't even rely on the paper that carries all their advertising for support. Gone are the days when central office would issue some bogus stats and have them uncritically reported. The only way Gordon gets his message across now is on the still tame Andrew Marr show. A half hour political bradcast on Sundays. You know, underarm 'questions' approved in advance and smashed for a flat six with a tirade of dodgy numbers.
Just like the old days. If you want a bit of 1997-old-Nu-Labour nostalgia look to the Andrew Marr show.
The rest of the UK has woken up though. This government is marked. It's 1995, it's Major Mk 2.
Good. About time.
Complain about this comment
I'll start feeling sorry for Brown when he stops spending billions on ID cards which won't cut crime or terrorism and no-one wants!
Complain about this comment
@112
You claim Iffy moderation right after getting away with crass dirty language in your #109 post.
I would say that you are teh beneficiary of the moderation when a quick glance through the blogs will show that some get deleted more than others.
Dr foster went to Gloucester in a shower of rain he fell in a puddle right up to his middle and was never seen again.
aparantly wishing Dr foster was swapped for a PM is worthy of deletion
Complain about this comment
Nick,
You say "What the PM is being told by his advisors is that the public want to know his analysis of what's gone wrong and what he's going to do about it."
.... trouble is - in order to articulate what has gone wrong, Gordon will have to admit to his failures as chancellor. He is never going to do that.
At best in his speech he is going to sound "slippery humble". i.e. he won't own up to his big mistakes, just a few minor issues and he'll then tell us that he is humble, listening and Labour are the right people to fix things.
Complain about this comment
Labour is the only show in town for creating innovation and wealth.
Ha. Ha ha ha. Hahahahahahahaha.
Complain about this comment
#'s 104 - 105 - 106
Yes, you can argue that the state is spending too much of GDP, that's probably true. Too much on hospitals arguably, too much on foreign wars (definitely!), maybe not enough on education and transport. But that's NOT the main cause of our economic malaise. In any case, an increase in tax and spend was needed (even if it's perhaps been overdone a little) and we voted for it, remember?
All this "it's Gordon's fault" and "the country is bankrupt because of Labour" is a complete red herring. The problem we have is that we've been living on delusions. Our rise in living standards over the last few years has been based on ...
- profligate use of underpriced energy
- cheap borrowing vs overpriced assets
- imports from exploited overseas workers
None of these 3 things can go on forever, can they? There's been very little real wealth creation and so it's all been rather phoney. Hard to admit it, I know, but that's often the way with the truth.
I do like the symmetry of Gordon, having taken credit where it wasn't due, getting a kicking now for something totally outside his control ... just so long as we recognise what we're doing and we don't pretend that Dodgy Dave and the Big O could do any better.
Would they really have "fixed the roof while the sun was shining?" ... I hardly think so. Slightly lower taxes maybe and that's about it. Given this is a crisis of capitalism, there is every reason to suppose that things would be a great deal worse under the Conservatives.
Complain about this comment
Gordon has nothing to offer.
The Treasury has clearly told Gordon Brown that he cannot promise any more handouts.
His options are not limited, they are non existent.
The TUC could be his undoing, his own party, whatever but pleading about physical infirmaties is a lost cause.
The country wants a leader not this loser.
Complain about this comment
re: 118
Al-Beeb censored my Charles Kennedy joke. I sympathise.
Complain about this comment
Reality check: I've had more comment backed up by tomorrows headlines than the usual suspects, and the very rare comment that's been moderated away compares well to their trail of destruction. I also know a power struggle when I see it. Doesn't make it right or fair, or lead anywhere good.
Some folks in big business and others who do very well out of the status quo don't want to let go. I've seen it before, online and offline, and the game's the same. It's why people like Boris Johnson go for the smarmy pitbull technique, and Osborne and Cameron are no different.
By sticking to the facts and letting all the personal attacks slide by, the government can succeed easily enough. It just has to put the tools in folks hands and create the right nurturing environment. They have the power to do that while the opposition and vested interests just have hot air.
Complain about this comment
You claim Iffy moderation right after getting away with crass dirty language in your #109 post.
More telling still, when I inadvertently cut'n'pasted the rudeness my post disappeared into the ether for profane language.
Somebody has privileged access to the BBC site.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Trash Gordon is one Hardwidge short of a picnic without any meaningful grandantidote
Complain about this comment
Slogans for the Labour Party Conference
Any advance on:
Welcome poverty..Welcome misery, welcome houselessness, welcome hunger, rags, tempest, and beggary!
Mutual confidence will sustain us to the end
Complain about this comment
#120 U9461192
Yes I chuckled at that one too.
The comparison of Labour's politics to Silicon Valley in the next sentence was possibly the funniest thing I have heard all year.
Complain about this comment
Me thinks GB should leave his own personal psycho-analysis in the hands of his therapist . We the general public have our own stresses and strains to worry about and have to be tough and take difficult decisions every day. So why does he think he's any different. He is well paid for it.
Is he aware of the distress he is causing to the rest of us just by his determination not to go.
The scene of this disingenuous lot smiling and keeping up appearances for the sake of their jobs left me cold and utterly flabbergasted.
What sort of people can do this?
Do they honestly believe that the British people are so easily fooled?
All we can do now is try not to sink into a state of depression thinking about another two years of them and the further havoc they will surely cause.
Complain about this comment
I'll try again with the below, curious though my original choice of phrase was rather less fruity than a recent CEH offering.
---
Let's hope the "uncharacteristic Brown introspection" occurs reasonably quickly because at that point he'll realise he is out of touch, failing on all fronts, divorced from the awful reality of life in Britain today, is bereft of ideas and his selfish, ignorant number is up.
Go now Gordo before you make things a whole lot worse. Your legacy was shot to ribbons ages ago and hanging around now in the hope of rescuing it is pointless and unnecessary. Cheerio!
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
The govt has introduced a training scheme to train our people, ushering a new age of better, whatever efficiancies...
Eg kiazen, continuous improvements on processes, LEAN, and 5s management is not going to solve the problems of people who are stuggling to survive with this mammoth taxation.
Big deal Gordon, Training migrants and immigrants that dont speak english or cannot which choose to stay here for the money, then leave this nation to go home is not going to solve this problem, thats not a way to organise your country is it?
Taxing the poor, having quangos and jobsworths in public services to raise statistics will not sort this problem out. Gordon stop using your tractor statistics and use some guile.
Im afraid and yet again you left out the main problem, your utter understanding of how we as a nation live, and by that means you are not even a scratch on understanding the real problems we face. Stop saying your "listening" stop blaming global downturn and the shaky market and act.
But just as your book on courage says, you have none!
We the electorate will not forget this, and NEW Labour will pay for this.
Even if we have a conservative government, after we have dealt with you, we then can deal with them!
Complain about this comment
#121 sagamix
You make some interesting points that I have a lot of sympathy for. In particular the debt issue which has been getting out of control for a while.
I would just make two points.
Firstly, your last paragraph seems to boil down to the fact that you believe that it would have been worse under the Conservatives. Surely that cannot be a rational argument. The statement is far too hypothetical and we cannot be sure that the economic policies persued in one era would be followed in another by a particular party had they been in power.
Secondly, are you saying that Gordon Brown could not have done more to restrain the debt people were getting themselves into? He was the chancellor and had the public and private debt figures at his disposal. Surely he could have regulated the banks' lending better. The government surely should not allow it's citizens to damage the country's economy by borrowing too much.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This 'apology' will take the form of Blair's valedictory performances. There'll be a list of 'achievements'. Squandered this, squandered that. And the closest you'll get to an apology is that his only regret is that he didn't squander more.
Just watch.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Man, just imagine the shock on your face if it turns out to be true. I wouldn't want to jump to conclusions or hype anything up but if Gordon Brown's keynote is any good then it's GAME OVER for yesterday's men. And if you folks don't buy it the innovation and wealth creation will just move on.
Britain can be a powerhouse in 20 years, or a basket case. That's the black and white choice facing the country. You want to get sucked back into the comfort zone, or charge ahead. Putting the decision off just makes it harder, and jumping the wrong way just gives you a bigger headache.
If the Tory economic and EU plans go badly, you're have nothing and nowhere to go. You'll be stuck with it on an increasingly irrelevant ball of dirt. If you're some billionaire who can just flit elsewhere if it all goes wrong that's one thing, but behind the talk most folks in here are not.
Complain about this comment
#121
I think the problem is that Gordon has simply spent too much and not achieved value for money during his time as chancellor. The public sector has hugely expanded for little noticable benefit to the consumer, off-balance sheet deals have been used extensively, the tax take seems to be increasing all the time, etc.
Yet after all this "investment", what are we left with? First rate education, health and policing? A forward-sighted energy policy? A rebirth of manufacturing industry?
They simply haven't spent the money wisely, and now that the economy is going south people are beginning to realise that.
Complain about this comment
He was the chancellor and had the public and private debt figures at his disposal. Surely he could have regulated the banks' lending better
Well yes. He had total control of government finances so he can't blame anybody else for them. As for private debt he could have leaned on his placement at the BoE to increase interest rates and discourage all this borrowing. He wasn't shy about leaning on them to decrease it and encourage borrowing that's for sure.
He might have made the odd comment about irrational exuberence.
The government has no trouble at all handing out advice on how fat we are and how we should stop smoking but they didn't think it worth their while to mention we were mortgaging ourself to the hilt?
What? Not bothered if we financially cripple ourselves. Freedom of choice is it? Fine, you can disband a whole bunch of other Stasi posts that used to be left to 'freedom of choice' then. Fact is this boom was nurtured and fed by this government. A bread and circuses government using borrowed cash. Whoda thunk it?
Complain about this comment
#138
Does anyone else on this blog have the faintest idea what this guy is talking about or is it just me?
Complain about this comment
Britain can be a powerhouse in 20 years, or a basket case.
Could've been a power house today instead of a basket case. Why do we have to wait another 20 years? What was wrong with making us into a 'powerhouse' over the last 10 years instead of saddling us with monsterous debts and one million extra civil servants and their endless payrises and pensions.
Just asking.
Complain about this comment
oh im sorry Charles did i present a better case of Zen and kiazen to you?
always remeber Charles we are not robots!
Complain about this comment
You want to get sucked back into the comfort zone, or charge ahead. Putting the decision off just makes it harder, and jumping the wrong way just gives you a bigger headache.
You've got me worried now. Should I be buying gold?
What's this 'putting the decision off' talk? What decision could possibly be put off that would effect me apart from devaluing the currency or confiscating all my cash?
jumping the wrong way just gives you a bigger headache
I don't want to be jumping anywhere. I want a PM who could go back in time and undo the calamitous decisions he's been making since 1999. And that's not going to happen. Failing that I want a PM who is going to make even a cursory effort to balance the UK's deficit because I don't want my kids paying for Gordon's monuments to vanity.
The thing that scares me witless is that he'll simply print money. I've been saying he's going to do it for years but he hasn't so far (well 400bn aside) so I get to thinking perhaps he won't. But he is a Labour PM. It's what they do. He's going to print money and build nuclear power stations or roads or railways or something. Rig the 'growth' and GDP figures that way.
Is that it?
Complain about this comment
#43, it was stated that Nick thought that they should have gone second class, no chance of that with this bunch , guaranteed both them and their hangers on all went First class, and article actually confirms that.
Complain about this comment
[after being repeatedly censored, I shall try a fifth time].
Chuck E [censored],
It seems when times get tough you ditch your trendy Zen nonsense and come over all scatological and rabidly anti-Tory.
Under the sheep's clothing was... a [censored].
You are the [censored] and [censored] flip-side to that [censored] bloke,[censored].
Complain about this comment
142 U9461192
I hope I spelled your name correctly.
Were we on the verge of becoming a power house pre 1997? I can't remember. What did we do so well? and how was it destroyed by this government?. I don't think it is anything to do with any Government in particular. They are mostly awful when it comes to ambition. Just our self satisfaction make us feel we do not have to do anymore. Less feeling full of ourselves about the 1966 world cup. Would help us improve Englands football for example. Less of feeling full of ourselves about winning world war 2 and the former empire would also give us the will to improve.
Complain about this comment
#134 (Jonno)
Yes, I agree about GB ... he could have done that and he should have done that. I think he was too focussed on taking the plaudits as "most brilliant chancellor ever" whilst all the time eyeing up the top job.
And as regards the Tories, one can only guess. But, given I do see this primarily as a crisis of unfettered capitalism, and they are the party who espouse that above all things, then it's logical to deduce that we'd probably be worse off under them.
#139 (Jake)
With such enormous sums being spent, it's inevitable that you get a fair amount of waste. You get a lot of waste in the private sector too (the banks spring to mind, of course, but you see it in any large organisation). I'm not saying it's not a valid concern, I'm just pointing out that the government "frittering away" money is not the root cause of the economic mess we're in ... which, in my opinion, is only going to get worse for quite some time yet.
We should also recognise that, on all respected measurements, both schools and hospitals are considerably better now than they were 10 years ago. We voted for these improvements and, to a large extent, we've got them.
# 140 (U and the numbers)
It's ridiculously lopsided to lump all the blame on the government and none on the banking system. I'd go a 10/90 blame split where the 90% is the banking system. Germany, France, Japan, Italy, Spain, Australia, USA, Canada, you name it ... they're all going into a big bad recession and none of them have the pleasure of Gordon Brown at the helm, do they?
Complain about this comment
I do not understand what is going on in these terrible "credit crunch" times. As an aged, crumbling pensioner, I cannot even afford a charabanc ride to see the lights at the nearest seaside, and naturally can't afford a "Kiss Me Quick" hat. A stick of rock is also unattainable, but can just about manage a bag of cashews. So what is this about Gordon Brown returning from a holiday in Southwold, and now off on a day trip to Swinging Birmingam! Such decadence!
Complain about this comment
This non story designed to provoke the usual pavlovian response to the words 'Gordon Brown' from the fanatics on this site, is a handy distraction from the bigger story of these 2 'originally' nationalised, privatised and now nationalised again in the lefty breading ground of the United States of America.
What were Mr Osbornes words again on the temporary privatisation of our own little bank. Which was not originally nationalised like these 2.
"It back to 1970s Britain for Labour." I think it was. Would he care to call the Americans a bunch of pinko socialists?
Complain about this comment
#77
grandantidote, is this a new term which will enter the dictionary, TAGspeak.
Where exactly do you think that the term TAG comes from. When I tested computer programs I would put TAG at the end, that is my initials, hence TAG. You think that I am joking! I do not take responsibility for graffiti, ok yes I do. TAG is alive and well and living in Exeter.
Complain about this comment
What I find interesting about all these comments and on other forums is that although they are understandably anti Brown, they are not exactly citing Cameron as being able to do much better.
It could be that there is a recognition that our present situation is not mainly due to mistakes by our politicians and they are now looking for someone to lead them out of this mire. Brown may have the right policies, but he is not and never will be the right person to present them to an ailing nation. I see Cameron in a similar vein.
The present generation of career polticians have not made the grade. The economic crisis will sort itself out eventually, though there will be many casualties. What is more concerning is how do we get people of quality to lead our country? How do we lure them away from a successful chosen career to deliver to the people what they want? The present cohort of polticians want to govern and see that as an end in itself. No wonder the mess is so bad!!
Complain about this comment
I accept that I am not especially bright, neither Einstein nor a brain surgeon, but at the same time I'm not daft. For quite a long time I've been trying to make sense of Charles E Hardwidge's postings, and whilst not wishing to be offensive or insult a fellow-blogger, I've come to the awful conclusion that this is a case of taurus excrement baffles brains!
Complain about this comment
64 miss waldorf, Now you dont fool me nigella awesome its no good coming back and trying to come back through the back door.
Yes we have all known about Gordons loss of an eye and the trajic loss of his little daughter but it was not he that brought up the subject it was Nick Robinson that opened that can of worms,
I know you Tories like to blame GB for just about everything but please get your facts right read the heading again.
Yes many people have lost their loved ones and there a many casualties and that is trajic also but the loss of ones child whatever the circumstances is no more or less painful.
If it be a serviceman, a man killed making his living or a young child its equally painful so please dont catogorise them. hope you had a nice holiday, how is Waldorf well I hope even if he doesn't want to speak to me any more.
Complain about this comment
Is Auntie Beeb's software mis-behaving?
Complain about this comment
What I do not want is to be told what I want. I want my referendum, freedom, and not to be made a criminal if I get my bin collection day/contents/lid not on properly/ or any other item in this area wrong. I am fed up with hearing that none of the present woes are of Labours making, they are a nasty wind from the west. This government have presided over the biggest overspend in living history, and that occured whilst we had fantastic global growth which Labour took credit for. Now though it is a different story, not our fault. Living way beyond your means and not putting a bit aside for a rainy day is not prudent. Creating an enviornment of mistrust, misusing laws for minor misdemeanours, losing our personal data, the lsit is endless and does not make one think this government are on our side. They are frightening and have changed this country beyond recognition, and not for the better. Anything has got to be an improvement on their lackluster performance over the past 11 years. Bring on the election.
Complain about this comment
#27 CEH wrote;
The only folks demanding that are ones caught up in their own anger and populism. It's a typical right wing mentality that's rattling the bars of the cage. Anyone who falls for that tub thumping and hot air is just buying into fear and greed.
What about the commitment of the Labour Party (in their manifesto no less) to a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty?
Or didn't that happen? Or am I imagining it?
I'm pleased to say that shortly GB will be yesterday's man.
Complain about this comment
151 TAG , dont flatter yourself sunshine.
Complain about this comment
154:
Yes indeed I am the former Nigella Awesome but since my holiday with Waldorf I have decided to strengthen the bonds with him and I am slamming back through the front door with my new name to expose your delusions about GB and his cronies.
Complain about this comment
I had only one eye - but I still soundly wupped the French and Spanish and was a national hero long before I bought it at Trafalgar.
Sympathy for one at the helm was useless then and is useless now. Having fought like cat and dog to get the seat of power - to then start harping on about the rough deal one has endured is an unbelievably crass slap in the face to all.
GB: "The UK Economy is well placed... blah blah blah... to handle the current (i.e. Lehman) economic blah blah...".
I paraphrase (did anyone notice), but - how the hell does anyone know the UK exposure to Lehman at this time?
But hey, no problem, GB is on a jolly to Birmingham - forget staying in London and carpeting the heads of every major financial institution to declare it's exposure!!
More Big fish will be seen floating on top of the financial pond - it's just a matter of time now.
When will Brown grow a backbone and deal head on with the utter fiasco that is the UK?
Until then Lord help us all (and I don't mean me).
Complain about this comment
Very strange.
The economic situation that the whole world is facing has never been seen before and has been described by politicians [including Brown] as unique.
But suddenly Brown is the only man to solve the problem!! But he has no more experience of the situation than anyone else.
Does not seem to ring true to me.
But what else should we expect of the political class?
Complain about this comment
View these comments in RSS