Whoops-a-daisy
So Giles Chichester has done for members of the European Parliament what Derek Conway did for MPs.
He's resigned after it was revealed that he broke the rules on expenses when thousands of pounds were paid into a family firm of which he was a director.
Mr Chichester was, would you believe, not just the leader of the Tory group in Strasbourg but the man charged by David Cameron with ensuring that the rules were observed. Team Cameron didn't share his view that this was merely a "whoops-a-daisy" moment.
Understandably, Team Brown cannot resist observing that, once again, it is a Conservative who's been found taking a less than entirely rigorous attitude to paying themselves the public's money.
I'm 
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You mean he resigned before he was sacked. Well done DC.... Unlike Labour who have kicked all their improprieties into the long grass under the smokescreen of a "review"
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Who revealed it Nick?
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Sickening.
No doubt there will be plenty of tit for tat over this, but tragically I don't think either party can take the moral high ground. In the 90s the Tories were beset by sleaze scandals which seemed to mainly focus on their inability to stop sleeping with prostitutes / each other / etc. In the last ten years the sleaze allegations that have beset Labour MPs have tended to be financial. But in reality goodness only knows what certain Tory MPs got away with financially when they were in power.
I'd like to see them all get paid more as a basic salary, and then just cut away all the "expenses" and outside interests. If they are sitting members of a Parliament then that is all they should be doing.
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Interesting post, more in-depth comment at Guido's
http://www.order-order.com/2008/06/13-tory-meps-still-hiding-there.html
I think there is more to be revealed here. Keep us posted Nick.
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Did Dave give him his free tupperware on the way out or do you have to go to one of the roadshows for that? Maybe Dave will give him a "K" or a "Qango". Dunno what a "K" is but I could do with a Qango to mow the grass.
*sniff* Don't matter. I hear George "Double the Difference" Osbourne will dish out some graft. Yeah, cuz the Euro thing said sumfink about paying cash back. Dat sounds better now even dah nobs are getting squeezed.
Oh, moley. £445,000. That's a lottery win!
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On the one hand well done DC for dealing with this promptly and not trying to cover it up. On the other hand did he have a choice as the media would have ripped him had he not attended to this.
The sad thing is that this demonstrates that where money is involved you have to have checks via an external oversight. Pay should not be determined by MPs and expenses should be hived off to the Audit Commission or some such grouping.
I worked at the European Parliament years ago and little has changed so far as I can see. Many MEPs used to turn up at Strasbourg and claim their generous expenses - and then leave immediately without doing a stroke.
I think they also used to need an Audit Commission to check up - don't think they have one yet?
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Nick, I am just watching the first Cameron direct on the Conservative party website.
Since you missed most of it, perhaps you could watch it at your leisure and then re-write you previous blog entry!
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Nick,
It is still Labour MEPs who are resisting the most basic questions about their expenses for the 'open europe' survey.
http://openeuropeblog.blogspot.com/2008/06/transparency-initiative-update.html
This episode shows (as does the uk parliamentry expenses FoI issue) how important it is for public access to this information.
Who guards the guards?
We the public must - but we need the tools and information to do so.
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#3 colinefb - once again I find myself in complete agreement, except that I think you may have forgotten some brown envelope issues from the 90's, and at least two cases of sexual impropriety in this century.
Nice to see Blair in action again today btw. A great guy doing a big (some will say impossible) job that he certainly didn't have to do, and doing it for nothing except the opportunity to serve his country and the world.
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Oh What a surprise. The Tories bleat on about repecting taxpayer's money and bemoan the way Labour Governments waste Taxpayer's money. But if they believe that nobody will find out about their fiddles, the snouts go into the trough and stay there. You would have thought that a Party that hates the EC would have been more careful. It would be a nice change if David Cameron was actively questioned by John Humphries about how this was allowed to go on for so long. Cameron accuses Brown of being responsible for everything that goes wrong, even the Global Credit Crunch caused by American Bankers. But in this case the Conservative leader must accept responsibility for the action of his appointed MEP leader. I doubt it will happen though. Just like drugs and traffic offenses Dave will not be subjected to a Humphries Inquisition.
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Has he stood down as Leader or has he resigned as an MEP? There is a difference. Conway is still being paid a salary and presumably expenses as an M.P. and will do so till the next General Election. Not much of a punishment there then. If Mr Chichester was an Honourable man surely he should resign his seat now and Camoron should insist on this.
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I can imagine what would happen if this excuse was used for a 12 year old mis claimed housing benifit . Has anyone in politics any credibility left?
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Yes Cameron has acted promptly and well done for that however there is something strange about the EU in the sense that it corrupts everyone who comes into contact with it. Whether politician, judge or civil servant, or journalist, they become infected.
The symptoms are: They become far too clever and knowledgeable to even think of trying to explain what the EU is about to "ordinary citizens". They then want a post with the Brussels Plutocracy which is never audited and public money = "my pocket money"
Worse than that, with 80% of our laws now being dictated to us from Brussels, our local MPs (Westminster Town Hall clerks) have also become infected with similar corrupt practices, the first commoner or Speaker Martin being the first one to put his trotters in the trough - latest prize a substantial Pension but, they are all at it.
We need to leave the EU and repeal a lot of pointless legislation so that all public servants are accountable before British Courts with no right of appeal beyond these shores. Look upon it like the time a few years back when British Soccer fans were banned from Europe, it helped sort out that problem !
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Was the comment about Team Brown really needed, or was it more party political?
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Many more MEP's are in the same boat. They will be leaked soon.
With all the trouble with expenses at Westminster, we now have to demand publication of all expenses, MP's and MEP's
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the-real-truth - "Who guards the guards?"
Well, that is all of us, in that they (MPs, MEPs, etc.) are working on our behalf. Of course, "is " and, "are" have to be replaced with, "should."
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Even after this Dave gets congratulated for acting so swiftly. What choice did he have after all the accusations and blame he lays at others feet.
And lets be honest it wasn't difficult cos I doubt if many people had even heard of the bloke. He didn't act so swiftly over the issue of Osbournes Office expenses donations beind camouflaged through Tory Central Office.
I can see why his party love him cos of his apparent abillity to give Gordon Brown and Labour a tough time with the goading at PMQs, but in power that particular "skill" is redundant and you suddenly have to make decisions. Recent examples from Dave, 2005 manifesto, Economic advisor to Lamont!!!!!!!!!!
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That was pretty much my point along with a question of Cameron's surface swiftness to act. There's a certain arrogance and spin about the thing. Then again, people at the bottom have issues of their own that they need help fixing.
I'm generally supportive of an incomes policy. The upper and lower deciles are nuts. Nobody can live on what the lowest get paid and anything about 10 times over the lowest income is dubious. Plus, expense and tax dodges have to end.
Maybe, it's wishful thinking again but I'd like to see this as another opportunity to develop positive consensus. I'm sure the Prime Minister would welcome Cameron standing "shoulder to shoulder" with him on ending this madness.
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£445K banked and he resigned because he was found out. He's been doing it since 1996. Would he have resigned if he had not be found out...of course not! So now all is forgiven and DC can say he has a honest party.
Though this episode surely brings into doubt Mr Cameron's judgment!
It shows how corrupt politicians have become especially the conservatives who seem to do it on a different scale.
Will Giles Chichester give back this money which is after all our taxes?
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Nick, Your colleague, Mark Mardell, said: "I think the biggest effect it [Mr Chichester's stepping down] will have on the European Parliament is to lower it even further in the esteem of people who feel it's nothing more than a gravy train."
Absolutely. And anything that further discredits MEPs and the corrupting influence of the corrupt EU is all for the good.
Team Cameron may be embarrassed - and rightly so, but Team Brown should not crow: whenever a Nu Labour MP (or MEP) is found wanting they cling to their office with a rictus grip and need to be pried off with crowbars (think Peter Hain, etc.)
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As the BBC News website says: "He will continue to be a Conservative MEP for South West England and Gibraltar."
Why? As you said Nick he is the EU equivalent for the Tories as was Derek Conway for parliament. David Chameron forced DC to stand down for the next election. So why not in this case? Double standards from David Chameron, I think.
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What a lot of nonsense popskihaynes (no. 13). A tory politician does what many of his kind have done before and all of a sudden it's the EU (and by implication those johnny foreigners) to blame, and we have to leave to expiate the sins of the few. Nonsense.
The "Brussels plutocracy", by the way, is alot smaller, more audited and democratic than its UK equivalent. In terms of your "pocket money", more has been spent in Iraq and Afghanistan, without even mentioning the Olympics. 1% of the EU budget (to which the UK contributes far less than others) goes towards the administration.
"Public servants accountable before British Courts", like Derek Conway, eh?
Btw, the hooligan problem was sorted out so efficiently simply because we wanted to get back into European competitions!
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jimbrant @ 9 wrote: "Nice to see Blair in action again today btw. A great guy doing a big (some will say impossible) job that he certainly didn't have to do, and doing it for nothing except the opportunity to serve his country and the world.
I'm surprised he has the time now that he's declared himself God's representative on earth.
I suppose it may help sell a few more copies of his wife's book.... Cynical? You bet! The man's a charlatan.
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Actually, this man should be sacked for total incompetence - £400,000 over 12 years is really pathetic, Balls/Cooper do £300,000 a year in expenses between them from the UK Parliament. This MEP lacks the ambition to be a successful rouge and the necessary guile to get away with it.
So Null Points for Chichester, he didn't try hard enough. Why didn't he talk to the Kinnocks ? I bet they could have advised him better !
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What is so strange, everyone knows the European Parliament is the biggest gravy train on the planet?
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Yes Team Brown but what about Harriet Harman resigning? Surely impropriety there as well.
I don't know the system in Europe but it all needs over hauling and an independent group of accountants/business people giving out the money and judging if expenses are appropriate, and how they are dished out. Currently we are spending fortunes keeping all these MPs and MEPs whilst our soldiers earn a pittance. It is a disgrace and we should all be ashamed of our political system.
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#3: colinefb
Can I say that I entirely agree with your comments.
And these are the beggars who crank out laws for us mere mortals.
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On a related point, Nick, you quite correctly stated in an earlier radio report that Chichester is not a household name. [Until now..] But why?
No MEP is a 'household name' and I feel it is not an accident, but almost by design..
They seem to be kept remote from us, with little knowledge about where their 'patch' is and what remit they have. Would any of us have a clue about how to lobby them to stop farm subsidies, say, or threaten to vote for somebody else if they didn't change policies on climate change ?
The reality is we are kept in the dark about how the EU functions, we aren't encouraged to find anything out about it, and they seem to operate by the 'if voting changes anything, then abolish it' diktat.
This is the tip of the iceberg - people have twigged that we are bed led up the garden path by these people, with no opportunity to boot them, and their sinister cabals, out in the way we have with Westminster politicians.
And now that people are waking up to the truth about the lack of democracy in the law making process in the European Union, then Pandora's box will not easily be closed.
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#23 ScepticMax:
I agree with you that it's a shame that Blair has gone all superstitious on us, and I've said so previously on here. But the rest of your post is a bit silly. The man gave up hundreds of thousands of salary when he was PM, and is now doing a big international job for nothing. Charlatans don't do that. Disagree with him if you like, but unsubstantiated name calling doesn't get anybody anywhere.
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Apalling behaviour and this man deserved to be sacked.
Staying with the subject of corruption, Nick, I wonder if you could pursue as a matter of urgency exactly what Brendan Barber, General Secretary of the TUC went into 10 Downing St to talk about on Monday?
Some are suggesting that he has been brought in to use union funds to clear Labour's £7.5m debt (of which it appears Gordon is personally liable) which falls due at the end of this month? Further, some have suggested that this money may have made a round trip from the taxpayer through the "Union Modernistation Fund" (sic) administered through the DTI?
I look forward to a detailed blog on this very subject.
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Lucky Dave. This gets him out of that stupid Eurosceptic armlock he was in. This will ofcuscte the issue for a couple of years...
Dave's doesn't need to have his snout in the troff because he's a toff..
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21
Take a reality check. Cameron can only remove the Conservative whip, He cannot force him to resign as an MEP.
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23# and 29# re the unsubstantiated name calling.... and why is this such a trait of the Conservative and anti-labour posting on here, it's so noticeable. What does it say I wonder when you can't express an opinion without name calling, it reminds me of school.
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Why is anyone suggesting that 'Dave' is embarrased in any genuine way? I have just seen the TV spin slot - it is all active-seeming , tough-sounding, non-speak.
For goodness sake. The man in question is either lacking in the basic nous to be trusted with senior level responsibilities or he is just one of the long line of people of that ilk who just stuff their snouts in the trough without any sense that any rules apply to them.
A more important point. When is the BBC going to get past the 'do you have any messages to share with our listeners/viewers' type interviews with the New Lab..(sorry Conservatives)?
No doubt the 'they all object so we must be doing something right' cannard will come to mind. However this is complacent drivel.
Why should we not hear Labour Left (when it is not just an excuse for attacking the Labour Government)? Same thing with the Lib-Dems. Where are those Conservatives who are vocal and have non-Dave Spin views, but who never seem to be reported?
Presumably the Conservative Party are more disciplined as they sniff power. But is that any excuse for journalists? How lazy are you?
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People make mistakes and have difficulties so things like this happen. There's been enough manufactured outrage kicking around lately. I hope the Prime Minister can be understanding and magnanimous as is befitting someone of his gravity. Of course, if he is then Cameron's really stuffed.
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jimbrant @29. Having an 'unpaid' international post raises his profile (or, more correctly, keeps his profile high) which is of substantial value to his employers JP Morgan (who are said to be paying him $1 million per year). Additionally, while his post is unpaid, his expenses are generous by any standard.
Additionally, I don't think that many people would consider that calling Tony ("I'm a pretty honest kinda guy") Blair a 'charlatan' - dictionary definition: a flamboyant deceiver - to be unsubstantiated.
As for "it's a shame that Blair has gone all superstitious on us" - he always was a superstitious type (religious, superstitious, same difference). Surely those who voted for him all those times should have known that.
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Would it not be great for us all to be able to have a £400,000 "whoops-a-daisy" every now and again. This clown should be taken to court and charged as a thief. He has clearly robbed us all to feather his own nest. If you and I had done something similar you can bet your feet would not touch the deck. It is becoming clear that being an MP is not about working for the people who voted you in. The big kipper smile they have and the rubber hand they extend to get your vote is not a feeling of joy for you but the knowledge that they can now live like a king out of the perks. Gone are the days of the MP who has a pride in what he does for the people. We, Joe public are no better as we do nothing about them when they trip over the scam and have to stand up and say they had a "whoops-a-daisy". I take it he has paid the £400,000 back before someone looks to closely at what else he has donated to himself. Is it any wonder the country is in such a state when the people who are elected to run the country only run it for them and the family business.
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35
another person who needs a reality check. When I read this, i didnt know whether to laugh or cry.
"I hope the Prime Minister can be understanding and magnanimous as is befitting someone of his gravity. Of course, if he is then Cameron's really stuffed.
I'd like to hear you re-post that after Labour are trounced. David Cameron has done what he had to do. Gordon pushed all the Labour sleazel in to the long grass by means of a review. Cameron did what needed to be done ... pretty much immediately.
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"21 - Take a reality check. Cameron can only remove the Conservative whip, He cannot force him to resign as an MEP."
No32: Are you seriously suggesting that David Chameron is unable to prevent a MEP from representing/standing again for his party at the EU elections?
Looks like the Police will need to be called in to do the job that Chameron won't do. Of course who asked GC to make sure "that the rules were observed"? Splendid judgment on that person's part.
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At 7:20 pm on 05 Jun 2008, Charles_E_Hardwidge wrote:
"That was pretty much my point along with a question of Cameron's surface swiftness to act. There's a certain arrogance and spin about the thing. Then again, people at the bottom have issues of their own that they need help fixing."
I'm sorry Charles, but what if it was a Labour MEP? ALL parties have MPs/MEPs with the same problem over expense claims.
I've always believed that MPs/MEPs should not hold any other job (except established Charities) while they are serving. The Tories were right to deal with him quickly. Would Labour have done the same thing?
Perhaps you would like to comment on Wendy Alexander's recent "donations".
I'm not making any excuses for Mr Chichester - he should resign as an MEP. He trots out the same excuses as every other one - Labour/LibDem/Conservative - who gets found out. "Oversight" is a feeble excuse given for people who run the country or Europe.
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the blair clone/clown cameron asks his leading mep to step down,because he was FOUND OUT,the hypocrite lib-lab-con parties slated ukip meps.
yet we have kicked out 2 meps for dubious expenses .
i enjoy the quislings destroying our democracy being exposed.
as fpr ravenseft laughable claim ''the eu is more audited than westminster'' really????
perhaps you would like to contact mep paul van buiten or auditor sacked by lord kinnock,marta andreasen?
the accounts have not been signed since 1994,
Maybe it was only UKIP imagining the 2billion pound italian olive oil fraud or similar billion pound greek tobacco scandal,or the fact meps have literally just bought a 186m
train to shunt between bruxelles and strasbourg,or meps will have private school for their children courtesy
EUROPEAN TAXPAYERS.
Biofuels directive is pushing food prices
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It is odd to me that people get prosecuted for stealing a tin of baked beans and no action is taken against someone who has stole thousands of pounds from tax payers.
He should be prosecuted and jailed.
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What I fail to understand is the lack of agreement and consensus between us, the general public, to hold to account our political SERVANTS - yes, servants...those elected to represent our best interests.
Be they Labour, Tory, LibDem, Green, Indy - whatever!
Whether it is the MEP's using the system they vote for and perpetuate to coin in as much as possible, to MP's hiding behind the rules they set to warrant claiming expenses for second homes, council tax, food, new kitchens and the rest... They are all totally removed from reality!
It is simply the fact that they do it without any shame or guilt and then try and justify it when caught out --- Either " whoops a daisy " I made a mistake ( yeah right ) or Mrs Martin's Taxi fares.
My wife can not claim expenses of my employer when she assists me, just as I can not claim expenses for my council tax - so why is that all us bloggers keep tit-for-tatting each other instead of aiming our contempt at those who deserve it.
None of these so-called moral guardians (who tell us how we must live our lives) has the slightest idea of the need to show guidance to encourage the population to do the right thing.
I am truly sick of the lot of them. To the labour supporters out there, you must accept that taxes have risen too high, and that services have not improved as a result. Tory supporters, you must accept that your poll ratings are not because of DC but because GB is making such a hash of things.... I don't want to come across as childish, but we AS A COUNTRY need to kick some collective asses and make this country great again!
Politics is a great thing.... let's all make things better and have a collective voice that counts.
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Democracy is fine in theory - it prevents us having no option but to slaughter people when we want to get rid of our 'leaders' (see Iraq etc.) - however the individuals concerned are human like the rest of us and full of frailty.
Unfortunate for the individual, but like John Profumo ( the 45 anniversary of his disgrace was, I believe, this week) let us hope that Mr Chichester dedicates the rest of his life to good works.
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39
Of course I am not suggesting that. If he is found to have broken the rules (and he hasn't yet been found to have, even if it looks ominous,) He would have NO CHANCE of serving as a Conservative MEP next time round. As far as I understand it, he cannot be forced to resign as an MEP by Cameron. .
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#28
“Would any of us have a clue about how to lobby them to stop farm subsidies, say, or threaten to vote for somebody else if they didn't change policies on climate change ?
The reality is we are kept in the dark about how the EU functions, we aren't encouraged to find anything out about it”
Hang on a minute, you’re not encouraged to find anything out about it? Surely that is your own initiative? You’re commenting on an internet blog so I assume you have some knowledge of the web? Haven’t you thought to look at websites about MEPs? Or to email them and find out what they do?
MEP constituencies are vast - London (7 million or so people); Scotland - a pretty large constituency to have to travel around and hold surgeries. There are many bad MEPs in the UK, but I would defy anybody to try to cover areas of that size and have a good profile, particularly when the media (or anybody else) has little interest. If the political parties and the Government had been doing a better job explaining how the EU works (or not) maybe there would be a little more scrutiny of the dubious crowd kicking their heels in Brussels.
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#9 - yes, apologies, I was typing my initial post in haste. I don't doubt that the Tories had their share of financial scandals in the nineties as well - my dismay extends across all the parties.
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Yet another politician behaving more like a lager lout than a member of one of the most privileged classes in UK.
Will Chichester keep his hefty pension? I bet he will. Perhaps politicians caught with their hands in the public purse should lose their entitlement to taxpayer funded, golden pension pots?
At least he had the decency to resign, though I suspect it was a case of go before you're shoved. Good riddance.
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"Understandably, Team Brown cannot resist observing that, once again, it is a Conservative who's been found taking a less than entirely rigorous attitude to paying themselves the public's money. "
And neither can you, Nick.
Nice to see you continuing to do free media communications for the near-bankrupt Labour Party. Shame to see we're paying for it. "Once again"? This could be a Team Brown press release.
PS When the recent FOI information came out showing mostly Labour greed for free kitchens and HDTVs and very, very expensive window cleaners I didn't see you make any party-specific points. Plus ca change.
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@3chrisbowie (#30),
Oh you're so silly....you might as well ask Gordon Brown to send his kids to Eton.
;o)
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Is it perhaps time for the Conservative party to reinvent itself? It could rebrand itself and try to lose all the "baggage" its has collected since the 1960s. Labour has pinched that best selling word "new", so the word "fresh" comes to mind. "Fresh Conservatives" perhaps (possibly too sleazy), or "Re-freshed Conservatives" (but suggests digging into party funds for champagne) perhaps "Re-formed Conservatives" would be the answer.
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I was thinking that life has got too complicated and pressured for everyone, and people at the top have to rehab their ego as much as people at the bottom. Rules are rules but how we behave and treat other people may be something worth reflecting on. If politics is to become more "enlightened" then a more "enlightened" spirit has to start somewhere. Now is always a good idea.
1. Sounds like a TV ad for socks.
2. Sounds like a pair of socks.
3. Sounds like a bunch of old socks.
Some more suggestions to rip down:
Conservative 2.0. ("Upgrade" for half price.)
Conservative 2008 (Oops. Shades of Vista).
Conservative 21 (Thunderbirds are go!).
I'll take a cheque, "Dave".
People find it difficult to parse size or indirectness, so authority and, say, a smarmy comment is never challenged but something small and to the point is because it's "easy". That's just a rough observation. I think, you're right to mention it as it gets to the heart of many issues.
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megapoliticajunkie, what is it about Cameron Direct which you wish to defend.
I too have watched the video and Nick's post is 100% justified - it seemed a relatively constructive meeting but really nothing very new and certainly pretty uncontroversial.
Please stop posting this partisan rubbish, there is plenty of space on less respected blogs for that.
Agree?
NB: my username is a football rather than a political reference!
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Dear Nick. " Its all the Establishment."
This yet another example of power corrupts, and it is rife amounst our so called Peers, They think they can get away with fraud,,sponging off the state, and living a life style that appears to be holyer than thou, so to speak.In essence it is a class war, a game of "i am untouchable because i am an MP"
I was once told that MI5 are not their to protect the public, but to protect the establishment FROM the public, so would it not be an interesting propostion, that they investigate our Peers, and see how many really are cosure.
"and it not just a few!
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"It shows how corrupt politicians have become especially the conservatives who seem to do it on a different scale."
I agree, The scale of sleaze between labour and tories are poles apart.
The tories only ever manage financial impropriety in the thousands of pounds, Labour do it in the millions. After all I cannot concieve on one policy that changed over the 2,000 pound cash for questions, but I do remember the outcry from labour and the media and the country. Yet within months of becoming elected the labour leadership accepted a 1.5 MILLION pound bribe to exempt formula1 from labour's then flagship NHS policy of banning tobacco advertising. There have been many many many examples of large scale financial dodgyness and sexual infidelity, by labour, ever since.
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I would add that of course the tories have their bad apples, and if they were to be in power for more than two terms, they would corrupt the party even further, but where it is a few bad apples in the Tories, in Labour it seems to be the norm. according to the recent expenses furore.
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Very sadly, the frailties of human nature are all too apparent in the people who we elect to lead us. There seems little point in trying to construct a scale of who is "least worst" at this type of thing, it cuts across all party boundaries, and my feeling is that there is a whole lot more of it going on which simply has not been uncovered.
Rather than expecting our politicians to rise above these temptations and being continually disappointed when they don't, surely a better answer is just to remove the temptations in the first place? Get rid of these "perks", expense accounts, etc and just pay them a flat (higher) salary.
There are only 650 (ish - can't rememer the exact number) of them in the Commons - so the biggest problem (accomodation) can't be that hard to solve.
Finally, I don't really care about the personal lives of politicians - they can sleep with who the like. It's the financial stuff that really upsets me. The obvious caveat to that is if their personal antics (a) jeopardises our security (Profumo, etc), or (b) exposes them as hypocrites (John Major, back to basics, etc).
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Plenty of businesses, company directors, and celebrities suffer from a sense of "entitlement" and access to smart accountants who shave the law. Much wants more? Bad company? They're no different to anyone else.
People at the bottom have their own issues with lack of confidence, economically blighted areas, and frustration. It's just swapping one cage for another cage. This is where, I think, more understanding and less demonisation are good principles.
In America, if you say you can deliver they'll give you a shot. In Japan, senior people don't get cocky because in the layer beneath them everyone else is just as capable. Over competitive behaviour and cost cutting has squeezed that out of Britain. Bringing it back may be a good idea.
This disaster is an opportunity.
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Total disgrace. Should be kicked out of politics never mind the Tory party.
Come back Bambi Blair and Lord Cashpoint all is forgiven. Or maybe not
An alternative punishment for this miscreant MEP is he should be made to tour the country defending the NewLabour 10p tax on wheels. He should visit all NewLabour constituencies and explain in detail how they can claim back the increase in VED next year on income tax credits. Let's see how long it takes for him to be pelted with tomatoes.
Then he should explain to all those facing repossession form their Northern Rock bootleg morgages how the NEwLAbour machine has mortgaged the future of the entire country so that the OECD now thinks we are 'acutely vulnerable' to the global slowdonw rather than 'very well placed' as the Blessed Ditherer has it.
All hail the Blesssed Gurner! (Normal levels of incompetence restored)
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Politicians and money!
Expenses for MPs, MEP, Scottish and Welsh members all needs overhauling and transparency.
After that - I know I'm dreaming here - but wouldn't it be good to have a body stuffed full of forensic accountants and business brains, to hold politicians to account for the value for money they achieve with our money.
We could strip away layers and layers of needless adminstration and quangos and inject money directly into the frontline, schools, hospitals, police, and those poor guys who fight our wars without the necessary kit.
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This incident tells us as much about Mr Cameron as it does about Mr Chichester.
Following the Dereck Conway affair Mr Cameron held a media event to assure the public the he was putting into place codes of practice to ensure that Conservative Party members expenses and allowances were ligitimate. Mr Cameron then appointed Mr Chichester to this job in respect to MEPS. Why did he not first check that he was a fit person to carry out this task or was it a case of getting on the tele as soon as possible and talking the talk?
This seems to be a case of Mr Cameron's spin catching him out because he didn't do his homework. Style not substance as Mr Brown would say
Re comment 49, If I remember rightly the FOI also revealed that Mr Cameron claimed about £20,000 mortgage payment for his second home in the country.
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Just how much more of this is going to come to light. The politicians of today have seriously lost the plot. I know the link is tenuous but are these people seriously going to decide if this shameful parliament is going to pass a law allowing detention without charge for 42 days. If this is passed then shame on them all.
What requires more publicity is the raid on the company where there are safety deposit boxes. Now this needs serious publicity, I think that this is going to have 'legs'. We have lost any moral authority that we had and can anybody tell me how this is any different from the bribery and corruption in third world countries.
The problem is we are constantly being asked for evidence and to be a whistleblower if you find something going on which is 'illegal'. We have Quangoes where people are paid huge sums and yet we, the taxpayer, have no democratic control over the people employed. It is no wonder that there is such low employment with so many benefiting from the under pressure taxpayer. I am getting angry about people saying we have to meet contractual obligations or that 'things' are within the rules. Who sets the rules?
Enough is enough, soldiers are dying in Iraq and Afghanistan and yet more young people are dying on our streets. it is time for change.
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Team Brown cannot resist observing that, once again, it is a Conservative who's been found taking a less than entirely rigorous attitude to paying themselves the public's money.
Accounts happening speak for themselves.
Quite right you are Nick. Quite right.
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49#
someone else peddling the Nick Robinson/BBC Labour Bias garbage. Nick Robinson has been an active member of the Conservative party but now a journalist, somehow i doubt if his political leanings have changed to Labour but he does have to show some objectivity. The reason he pointed out that yet again it was a conservative helping themselves to expenses in an "against the rules" way is simply because it is a fact and demonstrably the TRUTH.
This would be the real truth as opposed to the "trusty sword of truth" as quoted by Tory Johnathon Aitkn before he committed purjery. I wonder if he bumped into Archer whilst in the nick. Perhaps best not to wage party political arguements from the blue bench where honesty is concerned
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Who was it that said labour scandals are financial, tory ones sexual?
Bit of snap gone out of the celery there Dave eh?
Well it's Friday
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59#
Blaming the Government as you appear to be doing for individuals who have NR mortgages who now have problem paying them makes about as much sense to me as blaming the conservarive Govt for the Storm damage in October 1987.
If bad things happen it is just conceivable that its not the governments fault and perhaps if personally overstretched financially on mortgage or credit card you may be in part responsible yourself.
One thing is for sure most financial hardship isn't caused today by unemployment at staggering levels as in the past but you just ignore that.
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#65, I think I said that in #3. what I should have said is that something like, "the scandals that have come light". I have few doubts that there were / are numerous financially scandalous activities linked to the Tory party which simply have not yet been uncovered.
I expect this is true of Labour too. I really don't think there is much party political capital to be made here, this week it is a Conservative, next week it could as easily be a Labour MP...
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I tend not to congratulate the Conservative Party for its honesty, but on this occassion, I'll lower my standards.
There is nothing new in this story.
Conservatives are Conservatives, after all.
Conservatives do what Conservatives do.
Giles Chichester is 'Re-distributing wealth' in a way that is easily forgotten. Does anyone need any other form of convincing what the Conservatives will do to tax credits, if Crewe and Nantwich is rolled out across the Shires?
Dave is Dave but his philosophy is his party's natural instinct to look after itself.
This is why it is imperative that good old fashioned Socialism is allowed to continue into a fourth term.
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#66
the government made the Bank of England independent and created the Tripartite structure which led directly to the lack of oversight of the financial system and the collapse of Northern Rock.
Prior to the Tripartite system all banks were obliged to report the extent of their leverage to the Bank of England at the end of each working day. This level of borrowing and leverage would have set off alarm bells some five years ago when they beagn their headlong rush to provide all their customers with 125% mortgages.
Make no mistake - Northern Rock got out of control and went bust because of lax regulation set in place by the previous chancellor; the current indecisive incompetent occupant of number 10 ClimbDowning Street.
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#68, I think that might be a bit naive.
Voting for a party because you believe in their policies is, of course, the right thing to do.
Voting for a party because you think it will be squeaky clean is a recipie for severe disappointment. As I have (rather boringly) repeated a few times in this thread - my opinion is that the whole system of how they get paid / expenses / outside interests etc needs reform.
Geting into a tit for tat argument will simply lead to Conservative supporters trotting out a whole list of Labour misdemeanours, and Labour supporters doing the same for the Conservatives. I'm not going to try and tot it up on my head, but I don't think either list would be particularly short!
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#69
Whilst what you say is perfectly true, you do seem to dumping all the blame at the government's feet. Do you not think the banks were in any way culpable?
Just because they found out they could do all these deals, legally, within the government's regulations, does that really absolve them from all blame?
They should have known what was a safe level of lending and adjusted their business model to suit.
(and the government shouldn't have been as short sighted in the first place and let them get away with it)
It's a case of six of one, half a dozen of the other in my (largely worthless) opinion.
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69# Not for the first time people express their strongly held opinion as if fact.
In any case my point was that your attempt at humour in sending Chichester around the country to explain to INDIVIDUALS who had trouble with their extended borrowing was perhaps ignoring the INDIVIDUALS personal responsibillity in their predicament.
Personal responsibility is something Tories preach and often hate the "nanny" state's interference into an individuals choices UNTIL of course it suits you in an arguement and then you can blame the government for not controling an individuals choices. Cake and Eat it springs to mind.
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#71
Certainly not a worthless opinion. I think the govt does need to share some of the blame here, but one cannot absolve the banks or the people taking out the loans from blame.
Personal resonsibility seems to be a very unfashionable concept these days!
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RevolutionBlues@49
Unlike the Conservative paper you probably read which spoils you by always telling you what you want to hear. The BBC is meant to be impartial and inform people of all political persuasions and none.
I have reacted like you to Nick Robinson in the opposite direction, but not so far as writing an angry letter of complaint to the BBC. Many like you seem to have said they will do just that. None conservatives who have argued bias don't tend to say they will do this.
If a reporter can not say anything against the Conservatives without having to deal with complaints procedures. It could lead to an unintentional Conservative bias in my opinion.
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Hmm... so he resigned (wasn't sacked) although we are talking about 500,000 pounds!
Surely points to Cameron's inexperience, poor judgement and inability to take the future of this country's relationship with the EU seriously, in that he appointed Chichester in the first place....
...and also points to Tories sense of entitlement to a certain lavish lifestyle at the expense of the rest of us.
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Frankly this whole system of perks, back handers, nepotism etc should be ended. Does it reflect badly on the tories? Yes it does. But New labour have nothing to gloat about here either. All too often our political class treat public money as private money. This happens across all the parties, and it makes me sick. We need a root and branch reform of these matters in westminster and the EU.
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Its no use trying to switch the subject to banks. This is about a conservative MEP being caught out. An MEP that was supposed to making sure the rules were carried out.
Some of you might be thinking that I will bite on this particular NR hook. but I wont.
I know Conservatives go out of their way to avoid talking about themselves. But this constant inability to do so without diverting back to labour is getting a bit annoying.
This proves the Conservative party with its Xenophobic supporters, don't take Europe seriously. They still sadly think we have influence over the world on our own. I think Europe does many things better than us and we could learn from their example. Europe is our future! Conservatives represent our past and are holding us back.
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#77. I thought this was all about a person who couldn't keep his sticky fingers out of the sweetie tin. I don't think it has anything to do with Europe, the problem is equally applicable to domestic politicians. Maybe I'm missing something, though.
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67 re 65
Thanks for the mention, but with respect someone actually did say this a bit memorably, a while back.
Anybody know?
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So they've found another corrupt politician. Wow. (Next they'll tell us that the sun rises in the east...)
OK, so he's a Tory. Labour MPs won't make too much noise about this latest find - after all, their stable ain't too clean either (Diane Abbott confirmed this last night on 'This Week' with the phrase "people in glass houses... ").
Perhaps, if when their crimes were uncovered, these venal politicos were summarily shot then there would be some chance of reform....
To be honest, though, I'm more worried about the damage done by 'honest' conviction politicians who seek to enforce their ideals, than by the corrupt variety who seek only self-enrichment. (There are, of course, the really horrible ones who combine oppressive ideology with self-aggrandisement - most of them New Labour archetypes.)
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This makes me so angry. It is outrageous that politicians seem to get away with fiddling large sums of taxpayers money with no fear of consequences.
It's really about time we saw some high profile prosecutions to make them think twice about it.
Oh, and wouldn't it be fun if they could be locked up without charge for 42 days while the fraud was being investigated?
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I love the last comment:
"Asked if it looked "dodgy" to voters he replied: "It may do but I put it to you that there are an awful lot of MPs and MEPS who are employing their own family members."
Translates to: "I know it's dodgy, but everyone else is at it, so I deserve a slice of the pie as well."
Utterly shocking. MPs/MEPs, regardless of political affiliation have shown that they just can't be trusted to 'police' themselves.
There needs to be immediate reform of the MPs expenses - if they want any form of credibility from the electorate back.
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Posters will recall that the Ecclestone Affair came soon after NL swept to power in 1997.
I think that all those people who voted for NL at the time simply could not accept that there was anything 'dodgy' going on.
Of course, as time went by, it became blatantly obvious that Ecclestone was a canary in the mine.
So, if you think of this episode as a Conservative 'pre' canary in the mine then you will not end up being disillusioned.
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As a supporter of small independent parties, you may like to consider many of them tend to use EU expenses as a source of party funding. And before anyone bangs on about "hard working" families, how many self-employed folks pull similar tricks?
I tend to agree with earlier comment that the focus should be on the standards not raking over the past or personalising it. It just gets in the way of getting the job done and bringing people together.
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# 84
I would prefer smaller independent groups (I am not very keen on parties per se) to try and raise their funds 'the Obama way'.
That is, by enthusing their supporters such that they go forth and actively encourage further support and so on.
In my humble opinion, it is not at all healthy for political groups to obtain ANY of their funding from Government/EU sources because they are then compromised.
I agree with the point about self-employed folks, which you could also extend to businesses, especially large businesses, which often pay remarkably little tax overall.
That is the fundamental reason why I am in favour of a very simple flat-rate tax system, with appropriate indexed starting thresholds - it is either black or white - you are either paying it - or evading it.
There are no more shades of 'avoidance' grey.
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As we know the whole expenses issue is awful and if any member of the general public behaved in this manner we would be locked up, never to have a mortgage etc. I disagree with the whole system whereby you do not have to supply evidence of expenditure. Why slate Cameron for getting rid of people who abuse the system and fail to mention that the speaker of the house is busy making sure that we do not have the details. No, they should not be paid more, they have huge opportunities which they take to earn extra money and frankly if you tune in to BBC Parliament on most days the place is nearly empty. We need less MPs as we are simply rubber stamping things from Europe.
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I can find a lot of common ground with what you say.
I've found polticians can be dorks and spend too much time looking over their shoulder at their party. If you're not time served or attract 'graft', you might as well not count. That probably puts off a lot of potentially good people.
The funding barrier is a pain for everyone as organisation costs money whether you're large or small, or if politics relied on better but less entrenched politicans keeping a job open is another issue. Maybe, there's a middle way on this.
I'm with you on the flat tax thing, and favour an incomes policy or, at least, some sort of sensible standard. In Japan, tax law is much more simple. You pay your percentage whether you like it or not. There's no get-outs.
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Cameron has shown he is a very weak leader. A strong leader would have booted Chichester out of his party. But Cameron prefers to turn a blind eye and let him represent his party at the next election.
When Cameron gives us the tough on the crime speech, he should add, we will be tough on crime apart from those inside my party who steal from the taxpayer, as that is ok.
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In message 80 Diane Abbot is mentioned if you check up on this Mps other jobs and visits overseas I dont know where she finds time to do the job she is paid plus expences to do
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#83 John Constable.
There is a world of difference between the Ecclestone affair and that of Chichester.
The former was about donor's money and voluntary donations.
Whilst the latter is about tax-payers money and the tax-payer who is completely oblivious as to how honestly this is claimed back in expenses and downright dishonesty.
I would never make light of anything to do with the filthy weed fags, as I know they kill, but they are legal.
People do have enjoy freedom of choice whether they wish to commit suicide or not by smoking this poison.
Whereas the electorate voted MP's into these jobs in all good faith, with their eyes wide open, only to be sadly decieved by the likes of Chichester and Conway.
I hope nobody even compares the Peter Hain saga with this one, for once again we are talking tax-payer money and private money.
World of difference between the two in my opinion although neither (if proven to be so in Haine's case) would be either right or correct.
Even then on the scale of things the Conway/Chichester debacle is by far the worst of the two evils.
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What about the Labour Mp's who claim for a second house when their main residence is only 30 minutes from Westminster? Let's face it virtually all MPs regardless of political persuasion have their faces in the trough and are happy to claim every allowance going.
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Oh and welcome back Kiwilegs... the forum is so bland without you!
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The man has been sacked and fairly quickly at that. For the moment he has lost his livelihood because of his indiscretion. He has certainly paid heavly for his demeanour and is unlikely to have any kind of political career in front of him. It doesn't tar his colleagues with the same brush. End of Story.
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92#
Many thanks stephenni 1971. Unfortunately it is a quick in and out as we have other pressing engagements, which must take numero uno ( hope that is correct but you get my drift) priority.
Blog site is a bit of light relief.
Be back ASAP.
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93 mutleyspup, the man resigned, he was'nt sacked,you have another one to make excuses for today, so lets hear the excuses pour out for this one.
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So, David Chameleon this time manages to masquerade as an 'honest John' because this chap has resigned - but Chichester has only resigned as leader of the MEP's, and he hasn't had the Conservative whip taken away from him. So the Chameleon may have changed colour to suit the situation, but it remains a lizard at heart.
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I can't believe what is going on. First Chichester, then Dover and now Spelman. Ignorance by Tories is no excuse. I demand a full police enquiry followed by a full public enquiry. Nothing less will do. Whatever next from these nucons.
They have never changed. I was going to back Cameron but not now. I am going back to Labour and I feel many will over this. What hypocrits they are!! Cameron has attacked Brown over much less. This is really serious, pure Fraud in my book. Where are the press, they are giving the Tories a soft ride over this. If it was Labour, it would be leading the news for weeks.
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It appears that Caroline Spelman MP is the latest cconservative to have a doubt cast on her expences, in payments to her 1997/ 1998 nanny/ secretary. This has been reffered to to the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards.
On the face of it there seems to be a case to answer, however it could be just mere speculation. In Caroline Spellman's case I chose to believe there is no impropriety, and will assume her innocent until a proper investigation has established all of the facts. I have faith in in Caroline Spelman's integrity and hope and expect her to be exonerated.
Having said that I was 100% sure of Derek Conway's intergrity and I was sadly mistaken about him.
I was also completely certain of a Conservative leaning young man on this very blog-site., how stupid could I be?
They say that there is no fool like an old fool, this young man had me completely and utterly fooled. Until he confessed to playing mind games with me.
He was more interested in mockery and and ridiculing me than he was in serious debate.
However like a lot of these things, it comes back to haunt people.
It came back to meet him with a vengeance, more than he will realise, as he and another lost all respect and credible support, from poeple who had taken them at face value and supported them.
This is what is known as poetic justice.
And it gives one a warm feeling to realise that fairness is still alive and kicking in this Country even although at times we may have to wait for it..
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95 and 93# In fact nor has he given up/lost his livelihood he, like Conway remain on the taxpayers payroll as MP/MEP.
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It would appear that being an MEP is the direct route to the gravy train. There's massive amounts of fraud and has been for some time. Here's an article from The Times online from Feb 2008:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article3434326.ece
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grandantidote wrote:
93 mutleyspup, the man resigned, he was'nt sacked,you have another one to make excuses for today, so lets hear the excuses pour out for this one.
My mistake. He was merely kicked out of The Conservative Party as he deserved to be.
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Good heavens. I wrote a piece about Caroline Spelman which was niether derogotary or nasty.
I also added a footnote without mentioning any names whatsoevr about a nasty happening to myself. on this blog-site.
ONCE AGAIN my post has been reffered to the Moderator. No prizes for guessing who has asked for it to be referred..
I am going to challenge this one, as this is going well beyond the pale.
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re megapoliticajunkie comments, this person is an absolute prat with the iq of a brussel sprout. Does he not remember that the tories lead us into 2 world wars, the depression, the stupid greed of the eighties, the pointless falklands war not to mention the members of milk snatchers cabinet who either resigned in disgrace or were sent to jail
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Why is the media making such a big deal of Caroline Spellman's accounting practices? Considering this was from 1997? People are trying to peg this on Cameron? That would be like Blaming Gordon Brown for the exagerated claims of a labour MP under Michael Foot's leadership!
How utterly ridiculous.
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@103
WW2 was about defending these islands and a wider Europe from the perils of germany's national socialism under Hitler. The Falklands was abour the territorial integrity of British teritory and the people of the Falklands were very glad that the tories were in power back then, Oh and we WON that war.
Whereas labour are leading us into WW3, lied us into a war in Iraq that we cannot win!
We have already been kicked out of Basra, we went under the cover of darkness to hide outside of the city and we are confined to base, unless we have American or Iraqi escort.
Labour would have happily handed over the Falklands to the Argentinian dictator, the British Falklanders would then have faced torture and death. But then labour are very happy to hand over British territory to foriegn control. the Lisbon Treat is the biggest hand-over of power possible. This country is to be broken up and handed over in peices to an unelected EU oligarchy
Labour's incompetence can only be matched by it's greed and corruption.
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105:
Agreed.
103's comments are ill thought thought out and yet another desperate atempt to drag up the past to retrieve the present.
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# 105purpledogzzz, I happened to have worked on the docks at Barry, South Wales. for several months before the Falklands war Barry was the port were the Shackleton and the other ships that supplied the Falklands,South Georgia, and the Antartic.
refurbised and restocked, it was common knowledge at that time freely given by the ships crews that the skippers had warned the government of the impending trouble on the falklands there were already many Argentinians illegally on south Georgia in the whaling industrie as can be seen in Dr David Lewis's Book "Ice Bird" written quite some time before the Falklands war
A small detachment of british troops sent to both these locations even as a training exercise would have prevented a war that lost the lives of many british troops and would have prevented the infamous sinking of the Belgrano. The people of the Falklands would have been a lot happier if something had been done before there was all that bloodshed.
Why you would assume that a Labour government would have handed the Falkland isles to the Argentinians is beyond me and has more to do with your political persuasion than reality I think,
You do the british troops no credit by saying that they crept out of Basra. they moved out of there in full agreement with the Iraqi army and government to allow the new Iraqi army the chance to test their strength which they have done . with regard the british troops going into Basra with Iraqi troops, the reason for that is that the Iraqi's have asked them too on a number of occasions to help them which our lads have.
Even if you disagree with the war in Iraq
at least back up the lads who are out there.
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104 purpldogzzz the comparison that you make is "utterly ridiculous" as you put it. In fact you are the first person I have heard that has suggested that Cameron is to blame, your post suggests that Ms Spellman is already proven guilty, if it is found tommorow that she's not ,then no one is to blame. Not very confident old boy, looking a bit rattled.
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108:
104 knows as much about this matter as you do. He has no reason to be either confident or unconfident about the outcome of any enquiry. If she has erred from the path of good she will no doubt be punished as those on all sides of the political spectrum have been before her. Why should it be a matter for supporters of any party to feel guilty or bad because one of their representatives has strayed. As long as they are fined or excluded from the party ranks frankly who cares? This is like saying that Manchester United fans should have been vilified for their support of their team because Eric Cantona had one crazy moment at Crystal Palace.
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I was just browsing through this blog as you do and I could not help noticing that even though some Tories were gracious enough to condemn the action of Chichester it was always with an inference to the Labour party. I did'nt find this particularly odd as it's the sort of thing we have come to expect, what I was reflecting upon was if there is a question of sleaze within the Labour party its purely labour thats at fault. if its a question of sleaze in the Tory party , then its Oh! Well their all at it. Just thought I would point it out in passing.
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107 Yet another comment removed from the blog. What was written here was exactly my experience and was partly confirmed by the book I mentioned, the rest was in support of our forces in Iraq who were being near to being accused of cowardice see 105, its getting to the point when it's becoming almost impossible to write a post. Its not moderation its censorship, it seems to me that most of the refered to moderaters are addressed to a handful of posts, almost invariably what seems to be certain individuals, and the posts that are directed at certain idividuals are the ones being removed, since we get no explanation it is bound to make you wonder who on earth these moderaters are, how many people agree with me? If the moderaters remove this post then we all have something to fear regarding free speech.
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#109 muttlespup I was'nt suggesting for one moment that he or I was confident regarding the accusations against Ms Spellman, I was merely saying that he was almost was bordering on accepting that she was guilty, the rest of the post was exactly the same as yours , that the woman is not guilty until proved to be.As you Tories seem to forget with Peter Hain, the only difference being Hains money in question is private money whereas Spellmans money in question is public money.
I then remarked that he was'nt shoing much signs of confidence.
What the hell Man United and Cantona has to do with it even in comparison I dont know but there yoiu are.
Is that acceptable or will it be refered to the moderater's
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Just focus on writing the best comment you can without writing War and Peace, arguing, baiting, or personalising things. Complaining about every post that may or may not be moderated is another waste of time.
Every time anyone falls down that path they dilute their own brand value and the message gets lost in the noise. The Prime Minister found that out when he tried to micro-manage everything and jumped at every shadow.
Acting like a wounded animal just gets you kicked harder. By taking a step back, you create a bigger mental space to create better material and better choose what to respond to. Success accumulates in its own time.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
112:
I think the inference is that the entire Conservative Party and its supporters are tainted by the actions of a few individuals when this is patently not true whether it be public or private money. If proven guilty the lady deserves all she gets. Trying to score cheap political points as a result of her supposed indiscretions will come back to bite you in the bum if in the near future one of your own is proved to have done far worse.
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110:
Sleaze from any quarter is frowned upon. Noone on here is suggesting that the Conservative Party should enjoy an easy ride if their noses are found nestling in the trough of greed and corruption. Can you imagine the outcry if this was perceived to be true? I hope this clears up your misconception.
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Hmm, turns out that Cameroon has, so far, found quite a few 'pre' canaries in the mine.
Back to basics?
As an independent, I do not get too worked up about it.
But it certainly reinforces the 'they're all the same' brigade.
At the end of the day, politicians simply love spending other peoples money.
That is unlikely to change anytime soon.
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# 114/115/116/117/119 Mutterleys pup
Well you do have a lot to say on the subject of moderaters dont you, who died and made you moderater king?, I had suspected it was you that was complaining to the moderaters,your even suggesting that the moderaters may block my posts permanently you unpleasant little man, now of course I know.
If I had complained to the moderaters over the last few days on your comments on a number of blogs and I did have good reason too then you would'nt feel quite so chirpy as you appear to be now.
If your read the posts without a closed mind you might not be quite so upset with the truth, I shall be keeping a close eye on all your posts in the future so proceed with caution , if thats the way we are to write these posts. Now you must ask the moderators to stop this post.
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121:
What happened? All that was on was the loveable Germans trouncing the Poles. Really disappointing.
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#124kiwilegs I am at a loss to know whats going on with the moderaters on both blogs everything I've sent in has been refered to the moderaters, number one suspect in my book is Muttleyspup he's been gloating on114 to 117 then again on 119 on this blog . On the other blog you will see someones at it there too, both you and I are being moderated for practically every thing we write. some one is at it they only have to complain and of it comes, no explanation not even a Email. I dont know whats going on but its ruining the blogs and the only one that seems happy about it is Muttleyspup.
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#125 muttleyspup What was that about Adrenalin again.
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126 Grandantidote. I have already been in touch via an e-mail as well as a complaint about this self same thing to the Regulators of the site. I too have mentioned the same character to the regulators telling them that I do believe a concerted attempt is being conducted by the said person to deny both you and me our right to freedom of speech. I believe this to be vindictive and one of my posts informing you of my said action has been referred to the regulators. Hence you did not see it. If this keeps happening today I will send in another complaint and also another e-mail. I trust you will do the same because not only is this practice grossly unfair to both you and I, we are being denied a basic right out of sheer spite and vidictiveness. I hope you too will pass on your complaint to the correct people. As this is going well beyond the pale.
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#114.
Now come along.
No ones under any illusion that a BBC blog must be seen to be squeaky clean and impartial.
We know this. It's not a revelation to be told to clean one's act up.
I've named names. Named places. Named reasons. Facts.
Moderator pulls it and just for good luck, pulls my own explanation later on.
I can talk about the weather, football, cricket or Conservative Corruption and European immorality funded by a rich man in South America (and a group of businessmen based in the Midlands).
'If home is where the heart is, then Belize is my home'
Stoke-on-Trent is my home and the BBC knows I'm telling the truth.
Why is the BBC not making this story a 'breaking news' item within this hour? Why does the moderator shield these people?
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I'd give it up Mutley. You're dealing with closed minds.
I think all these money scams are just the tip of the iceberg and virtually everyone from all sides of the political divide will be implcated before we're through.
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Moderator can you pleas give me an explanation as to why my post N0.134 has been removed once again. Many thanks
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It appears that it is not only one MEP that seem to be involved with these expenses quite a few others are being named today in the press and media accused of being tarred by the same brush.
Caroline Spelman MP is the latest Westminster Conservative to have a doubt cast on her expenses, in payments to her 1997/ 1998 nanny/ secretary. This has been referred to the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards.
On the face of it there seems to be a case to answer, however it could be just mere speculation. In Caroline Spellman's case I chose to believe there is no impropriety, and will assume her innocent until a proper investigation has established all of the facts. I have faith in Caroline Spelman's integrity and hope and expect her to be exonerated.
Having said that I was 100% sure of Derek Conway's integrity and I was sadly mistaken about him.
I was also completely certain of a Conservative leaning young man on this very blog-site., how stupid could I be?
They say that there is no fool like an old fool, this young man had me completely and utterly fooled. Until he confessed to playing mind games with me. He was more interested in mockery and ridiculing me than he was in serious debate.
However like a lot of these things, it comes back to haunt people.
It came back to meet him with a vengeance, more than he will realise, as he and another lost all respect and credible support, from people who had taken them at face value and supported them.
This is what is known as poetic justice.
And it gives one a warm feeling to realise that fairness is still alive and kicking in this Country even although at times we may have to wait
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122 grandantidote, a serious complaint has to go in regarding this fellow. I have had a morning full of it. Little does he reaslise he will not win I will just play him at his own silly game.
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Moderator, can you explain to me why this post has been reffered, it was in answer to the person who referred it. He cannot then turn around and have it referred, because he does not like the reply. I ask for a bit of fairness here.
I need some answers.
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Why all this endless 'blame the moderator' stuff. Maybe the moderators got bored to death with the same old reheated comments. Lets face it hardly anything new
has been added to this blog for days. Have you thought (mentioning no names) that it's not the moderators but some software installed to block long bloated rants from anyone? A rant blocker? What's the point of this: Ooooooo poor me I've been moderated off the blog, what have I done to deserve this, I'm such a nice rational person. The moderators aren't conspiring to keep anyone off the blog, and they certainly aren't conspiring to curtail free speech. Furthermore I don't believe that some bloggers are on a campaign to censor other bloggers. It's just one big victim mentality, get over it.
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As I've said many times before, they're all out to feather their own nests.
Does anyone else out there know of any other job, where the expenses bill amounts to three times the actual salary? This is an outrage, (and probably a tax dodge too,) and should be stopped as soon as possible.
While we're all struggling at the pumps and Tesco's, these people are living like kings at our expense. I'm sick to my stomach of paying for them when I have to think twice before driving down to London to see my son.
Politicians first, Great Britain second.
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doctor-gloom@141
This blog is about shady practices. so I think this is relevant.
Messages have to be refferred to the moderator by pressing "Complain about this comment". and giving an email address.Labour and non conservative messages mainly from kiwilegs, grandantidote,garyelsby and etonrifles . were sent to moderation. In the full knowledge that they couldn't be dealt with until Monday.
Most have now been returned and on looking at them the only thing wrong with most of them is it is an argument against the Conservatives.
Some people on here are very very keen. pretending to be 2 or more people and now this.
Rant blocker software is impossible. Computers cant read and understand. Otherwise @141 would have been removed.
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#138 kiwilegs there was even a small post removed. DHWillkinson asking why my post was removed. as he could'nt see anything wrong with it, his reward was to have his post removed, now isnt that strange there was absolutely no reason for that, if it continues for another day then I think a personal letter to the BBC watchdog is the way to go. the post 130 has been posted on both of these blogs and I have replied on the other one if that one is blocked or indeed this one then something is definately wrong, since his post 130 has nothing to do with the thread then and was not removed then both you and I are entitled to answer off thread. I watch with interest I imagine you will too. I see my post 122 has been reinstated.Isee that107 has been reinstated also, so maybe you or I are getting through to the right people. I also see that dear old muttley has been pulled on a couple, miracle's will never cease.
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143
many thanks dhwilkinson, you answered 141# with a lot more eloquence and finess that I ever could.
What has been happening to grandantidote and myself have gone well beyond a joke over the last week or so on every thread we have visited.
The last poor soul who tried to defend this nasty came to regret it as would No 141 if he had so for long enough. however their are some who only find out the hard way. That was the reason I did not reply to him, this site seems to be full of know-it-alls who if the truth is know know "B" all.
But are rapid in jumping to wrong and misguided conclusions.
Still if it keeps them happy why worry?
It takes all sorts to make up this world.
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144 None of mine has been reinstated as of yet. I did register a full ans serious complaint just half an hour ago. So I wait in anticipation. We are being denied freedom of speech out if sheer petty spite.
I did tell him this morning that he would not win as I was so determined and would play him at his own game. However he has continued in this petty vein.
I hope it now stops and a severe warning is issued to him.
I would not like to see him barred. However he does need a serious reprimand for his mischief making borne out of petty spite and vindictiveness. Poor old Steffani1974 to think he stood by this character and gotkicked in the teeth for his troubles I can see No.141 ending up the same way. They all start by commenting on matters they know nothing about then come to grief.
BTW I have registered my complaint via the blog-site. How did you register yours?
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dhwilkinson 143
Glad you rumbled the ironic tone of my last post. I wondered whether it'd be picked up. So well done, ever vigilant as always. Irony aside, I stand by what I say. You say some bloggers have two or more identities on here and are using them for devious ends. Where, is your evidence for this? However, if bloggers are pressing that 'complain' button just for the hell of it, then that's no good for anyone. The problem is I don't think you or I are in a position to determine the authenticity of these 'complain about this comment' actions.
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Kiwilegs 146
I can see 141 ending up the same way? Feel free to complain about anything I write. It really doesn't bother me at all. But I give you this guarantee, I won't complain about you. You see, the thing is, I quite enjoy the debate on here, however, obnoxious it becomes. But I think more importantly, I believe in freedom of speech, one of the most important freedoms we have. So there you have it.
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doctorgloom@147
These strong labour people were targeted and sent to moderation for sending largely benign posts.
Haven't heard from ontheperipheral for a while!
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#143
I'm not sure whether your description of me, 'non-Conservative' is at all accurate. In fact I find it quite alarming!
My posts are fully within the 'anti Conservative' bracket and it is for this and this alon that I have referred your post to the moderator (what a nut he is!)
I'm an anti simply because when I was a child I suffered abuse.
My babysitter used to say:' Would you like dolly to bring you an ice cream?'
When she returned, 'dolly' was dressed inn a top hat and blue rosette and she (and dolly) ate the lot in front of me.
I've hated Conservatives ever since and my psychiatrist says there is no hope for me.
I know, I know, this post breaks all the house rules and don't worry, I've referred it to the moderator myself.
Still hate Tories though.
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And there lies the problem doctor-gloom. We had a retired gent much younger than me pressing the complain button, not for the sheer hell of it but for sheer petty vindictiveness and a depraved vendetta against myself and grandantidote.
This has been going on for over a fortnight until un-be-known to each other Grandantidote and myself contacted the blog regulators. Not until much later did I contact Grandantidote to tell hi of my intentions and he should do the same. Grandantidote had aleady done it.
I had repeatedly warned Mutley'spup that I would follow that course of action, he chose to ignore it, now much to his chagrin, he now looks extremely petty, wrong in his assumptions and foolish to the point of stupidity, he has got nowthat what which he richly deserves. And it is a fortnight over-due in the coming.
Most of my posts have been re-instated, with the exception of those I blew a gasket at Mutley's pup after a continued and sustained severe provocation. It comes as no surprise to be told I had broken house rules. Even a Saint which I aint would have been pushed likewise.
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151 Another know it all, know "B" all smart ass.
It is best to remain silent, and not to be know as a fool by talking about something you know nothing about.
Than commenting on it and proving it.
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Having read some of the comments on here from the usual left-leaning suspects about the "sleeze" and "corruption" of the Tories, based upon a scandal in the EU parliament, I will be fascinated to read their comments when (as is now inevitable) the media expose exactly the same issues with Labour and probably Liberal MEP's expenses too. This whole thing came to light because Cameron ordered his MEP's to open their books as it were. It is no surprise that nearly all the Labour MEP's, and many Liberals too, have pointedly refused to do the same. Does anyone really believe that they are all squeaky clean? Of course they are'nt.
Rather than pointlesly trying to make partisan party-political points, we would all be much better off calling for a thorough reform of the whole corrupt EU financial system. It is clear that there is no political will to stem the abuses in Brussels, which haven't changed since the Santer commission was forced to resign in 1999. This is not about one UK party being more or less "sleezy" than any other; it is about the incestuous system of governance in Brussels which safeguards (and even tacitly encourages) wrongdoers versus open and accountable public administration. If people would only concentrate on the wider picture (I am sure C.E.H. will approve of that) rather than resorting to the usual childish entrenched positions we may actually be able to achieve something worthwhile.
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149 dhwilkinson:
Can you explain your last sentence? And, Kiwilegs, while I reserve the right to lampoon and criticise you, if someone is targeting your and Grandantidote's blogs for deletion then it's unaccaptable. So there you have it. As unambiguous as I can make it. As I said, free speech is very important to me.
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155#
As I seem to remember it we had Conservative MP's linging up in the TV. studios to gloat add there three Ha'pence worth about Peter Hain, Harriet Harman and a few others regarding PRIVATE MONEY NOT TAXPAYERS MONEY donated by private people to fund the deputy leadership elections and commited the crime of not declaring it in the time allowed to register these payements. All of which was prive cash donated by donors a world of difference to tax-payers cash. Oh how they did gloat. Cameron even taunted the PM about it. So far only one MP has been caught. One Tory Derek Conway has been CAUGHT! with his hands in the tax-payers till ! plus another Conservative MEP Giles Chichester has been caught likewise. It has also been reported quite extensively in today's news and press that there are 4 others in the EP who are in deep doo-doo, who have done the same. And now Caroline Spelman is under a cloud of suspicion. name any ONE! sitting Labour MP or Labour MEP I dare you, who has been caught with his/her hands in the tax-payers till. Just ONE!
That is all I ask for.
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156.# Yes we were targetted and it was not nice. Just for the simple reason of believing in and defending the whole of the Labour party movement. Anybody who thinks that Gary Elsby and myself would not do that, just does not know us. We are diehard Labour and never ever likely to change. I do believe Grandantidote has had the same bad experiences under the Tory as Gary and I did. And has the same leanings towards labout as Eatonrifles does. Although Gary laughs it off and makes a joke out of it. I do not.
I would never go so far as to say I detest any Conservative leaning person, I do not, it is the Conservative Party I loathe and detest with a vengeance with damn good reason to do so.
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# 157 kiwilegs took the words right out of my mouth kiwilegs but I doubt if you get a reasonable reply, but lets not forget gentleman John Speechley currently detained at her Majesty's pleasure and where has Conrad Black got too Ooh! of course he's doing something similar abroad.
Talking of sleaze I can name four Tories who have or still have spent time with her Majesty's prisons. Cant think of any Labour people either spending time in jail or currently in jail.
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Kiwilegs.
Just because a Labour MP hasn't been caught (yet) over his/her expenses, doesn't mean there aren't any. I'll bet they're all shredding like there's no tomorrow.
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156 Not according to C-E-H it is not. As a female I should lie down and take the consequences according to his highness. The next time I do not fight back will be the first and the male has not been born yet that worries me overduly.
With 4 Sons , heights ranging from 5'10"- 6'6" , the latter being 2" taller than his Father and more than twice my body weight. I do not think I will loose any sleep over the ramblings of a egoistical old man.
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159 CEH:
Charles, let a thousand flowers bloom. Do we have to watch over our shoulders just in case, you, Charles, the self appointed judge of good blogging taste decide to complain. Oh dear, so all this stuff about not losing your cool etc. was just empty air. You are in no position to be judge and jury on other peoples' comments. Kiwilegs style is not my style, nor is grandantidote's, but nor is yours, but I wouldn't want to censor anyone.
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#157 kiwilegs
I did some not very scientific research (a quick search on google). I couldn't find one, but I could find a fair smattering of Conservatives. Can anyone else come up with any names?
I think your other point is interesting too - the difference between misdemeanours with "private" money and "taxpayer's" money.
I find the whole thing sickening and desparately sad. Unfortunatley I don't think anything in Europe will change as so many other states would need to sign up to change. But we could easily clean up our own system if our "leaders" could show some collective will. Politicans often talk about trying to re-engage with the electorate - action in this area would go a long way to re-building some of the trust that has been lost (including some prosecutions for those who have broken the law). While I'm waiting for all that to happen I'll enjoy the flying pig display outside my window!
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161# Cameron had a person look into this same thing regarding Labour Party memebers it is a matter of record regarding that. That person was on it FULL time and could not make it stick.
Which brings me to the conclusion that Labour MP's are far more clever at hiding it than Conservatives or it simply is not there in the first place. You pay youyr money you take your choice.
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I've taken a position. I think, it's right under the circumstances. People can comment and act as they see fit but you can't duck reality. I'm just not going to respond to argument or baiting, if that's what people want, and if moderation is happy with things sinking I've already decided to quit reading the comments if there's no improvement by the close of Friday. I might even drop Nick's blog from my RSS feed and find something else to do with my time. It's not as if I don't have a queue of things to do. Have the last word if you want but I'm done with it.
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166:
Bookmarked for future reference. Prepare to eat your words if the worst should happen.
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Kiwilegs.
Oh I'm sure it's there.
Remember Peter Mandleson and Tessa Jowell's mortgages? If Tessa can get away with saying she didn't know what she was signing, she really shouldn't be doing the job. A few month's separation from hubby until it all died down and now everything's hunky dory again.
Mandy had a really dodgy loan from Geoffrey Robinson, which far exceeded his earnings. He's come back into the fold so many times, he should be called boomerang.
I do know that Michael Martin leads the enquiries (or whatever they like to be called) into this sort of thing. A bit like giving the keys of the hen house to the fox really. No small wonder that Labourites get away with it all.
It's all sleaze, just under a different guise.
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Quite amazing. I can almost stand the gravy train mentality, but its the lighthearted tone of the bloke that gets me. The idea that this is a 'whoopsadaisy' moment is insulting. Get this twit to pay it back.
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#149: dhwilkinson
Haven't heard from ontheperipheral for a while!
-----------------------
David H Wilkinson, Newcastle upon Tyne, United Kingdom
How many memberships have you got?
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165# Colin, I have followed politics very closely since the 1980's and do have an excellent memory. I cannot bring any one case to mind either.
Some Conservative MP's have been found wanting on a number of occasions, with not only their hands in the tax-payers till, but with their trousers around their ankles. So they know all to well about sleaze. However it did not stop them having a field day when John Prescott got found out.
I would have thought that facing the most beautiful but formidable Mrs Prescott, would have been punishment enough for JP. without the Tories adding to his woes. hich they did in spadefuls. That in itself beggars belief because their infidelities go as far back to the days of Lord Boothyby and the wife of a sitting PM Harold McMillan. Boothby was said to be debauched with a liking not only for the Judy but for Punch also, which was practically unheard of in that day and age. Right up to Tim Yeo who is still in the present day Conservative party.
I doubt you will find a Labour MP who has erred in both these fashions, with the exception of JP, having said that nothing is beyond the realms of possibility. AS for the EU I have no knowlege of what there perimeters are so I could not make a valid point regarding expenses from any other EU Country or MEP except the standard any decent person would find right and proper, that are ours really ought to follow, but this does not on the face of it, appears to be the case if the newspapers and media are to be believed.
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170# Tell me,do you practice at being interfering in things you know nothing about or does it come natural?
I practice what I preach what do you do?
I learned as a teenager to mind my own business, pity you did not learn the same lesson.
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169 Once again you are talking about private money which was going to be paid back with interest.
How many people in this country have done the same to get on the housing ladder to buy the home they wish?
He was using his cash and that of Geoffrey Robinson which was offered to him and was to be paid back at a punitive rate of interest. The money was not being loaned free of charge. It was still Geoffrey Robinsons own cash, to do with as he wishes, you were talking about, NOT THAT OF THE TAX PAYERS, SILLY BILLY!.
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#170: cheerysassygirl
162 wrote:
'we females are nolonger consudered second rate citizens. So you mind your own business and get on with your life with as little intereference into the life of others that you can muster. I will do the same. Kindest regards have a nice day Kiwillegs.'
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This comment smacks of arrogance, hypocrisy, condescension and downright fibbing. As a female I do not wish to be associated with it. I'm surprised it hasn't been moderated. The sentiments are nasty, vicious and totally uncalled for!
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Looking at #174, it looks like you have proved your point!
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Colin. I answered you once although I also mentioned Lord Boothby and another realted matter to Conservatism, that is why I think the post has been referred, although what I did write about him is a matter of fact and not conjecture and is not only well know, but is on record as actual fact. Having said that the chances are the regulator does not have anywhere near the political memory I have and has to be sure in case of lible. When this is checked out the person will see I am correct in what in stated.
I cannot recall any Labour MP past or present being caught with their hands in the tax-payers till.
The last crooked Labour MP was Robert Maxwell but nobody would tackle him as he was most litigious and would sue at the drop of a hat. That is why he got away with his mis-demeanors for years, although that was not tax-payers money he had a go at, it was pensions cash for his employees. The man was a pure and utter con man and cad.
Who should have been sent to prison and the keys thrown away in my opinion.
I detest dishonesty regardless which party it would come from.
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Im very sorry to disappoint you NulabourNoHope_2@172
But I started on the Have Your say Website. which asks you for a username and a name to show on screen. This site just shows the Username. It is the same membership.
What made you make the connection to 149 and 143 since I haven't mentioned you or NuLabourNoHope. were you NuLabourNoHope, OnThePeripheral and Indigenouscabbage?
Hopefully this will answer doctorgloom@156's question.
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Kiwilegs
I can't believe you can be so blind. Geoffrey Robinson's cash was far in excess of what Peter Mandleson could afford on his salary. I couldn't have got a mortgage for anywhere near that amount on £58,000 a year or whatever his MPs salary was then. There are very strict rules and regulations for MPs to follow. A lot of them flout the Rules - no matter which party they belong to, and this is what makes everyone so angry.
I'm also quite astonished that you resort to insulting anyone who proves you wrong. You harp on about freedom of speech. Does that only apply to you, then? Perhaps you should go and have a lie down - it all seems to be getting a bit much.
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As for Tessa Jowells mortgages, that is a matter between husband and wife and nobody has any right to interfere in anothers domestic situation or arrangements. As you know Ms. Jowell and her husband have now separated after many years of marriage over the same matter.
I respect the sanctity of marriage and have made it a lifelong commitment never to pass remarks on anybody's life or marriage as nobody knows what goes on inside of any marriage with the exception of their own.
I have never been found wanting holding and practicing that point of view, I would suggest you do likewise.
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176 # and it is a pity you have not learned likewise.
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168#
It is just a pity you did not pay more heed to what I had already stated in 166# with, "you pay your money you take your choice." Or in plain English it may or may not be the case it is up to to each to decide. I have already decided for myself and I can only speak for me. Howeve please feel free to point to where I have said it has never or would never happen. I did state I had no recollection of it happenig that was all, still if you feel that you can make more of that statement be my guess shom me the place where I have stated different why don't you.
You would be hard put in finding it but please be my guest and show me the place where you found it.
I am open to correction at any time and welcome it.
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179 Do you think that self made millionaire Geoffrey Robinson is such a damn fool that he did not know Peter Mandlesons Salary?
More fool you if you do, that fellow is one shrewd MP, Mandlesons salary is a matter of public record.
Did you know who Mandleson's grandfather was?
Do you think Herbert Morrison died and left his grandson a pauper?
Are you so savvy with Mandlesons bank balance that you can comment on what he can and cannot afford. Who gave you pernmisisonm to have aninsight into Mandlesons bank balance?
Flounting mortgage rules is one thing, defrauding the tax payer is another, Do you not know the difference between those two things?
One is downright fraud and the other a misdemeanor. T
he MEP knew the rules and he chose to break them in any other walk of life he would have been sent to jail.
Last but not least where have you proved me wrong?
When you do that, I will go and have a lie down I will need to if I cannot loose you regarding Labour party politics. You are the one found wanting not me. I have answered your questions now answer mine if you can. Especially the bit about the bank balance and what Mandleson can and cannot afford.
Over to you.
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182:
No idea. If you click on her username you might bring up a history of her posts. Worth a try I suppose.
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186. Oh no need to click on the user name I can tell you, I do it quite often. Especially with people who comment on things they know little or nothing about. And to others who comment on things that they imagine are there and they are not.
And some even read into a comment thatI should I be prepared to eat my hat if the worst should happen when I never said that it would or would not happen, what I did say was quote vebatim: "Cameron did have a person look into this regarding Labour Party members and it is a matter of public record regarding that" (I should have stated labour MP's my mistake not members). That person was on it full time and could not make it stick. Which part of that statement do you diagree with and why should I eat my hat if the worst should happen. I never did say that they would never find it, I merely stated that Labour people were more clever at hiding it or it was not there in the first place to find. I never once said it could not be found, did I?
So what is your beef?
What are you complaining about?
And why?
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One thing all my detractors should know about me. I have never been able to suffered fools gladly, ever.
And I will retalliate sharply to any attack regardless of where and whom it comes from.
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186# why when I gave you a straight honest answer did you find it neccesary to have me referred to the moderators?
Do you not have the backbone to tackle me head on yourself, that you would need to get the moderator to adjudicate about my giving you an answer to a question that you yourself had asked, says more about you that it does me.
Pathetic to say the least.
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186. Nigelian Aka Mutley's pup. shame about the style it never hides a disguise, neither does a swift name change we can all do that.
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177:
I detest dishonesty regardless which party it would come from.
Of course you do. That is so evident in your postings.
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192.# Oh yes and I also detest bogus bloggers who have make name changes his with silly, foolish childish behaviour, over the W/end So why not have this post reffered to the moderator why don't you Mutley'pup?
In fact to save you the trouble, I will refer it myself.
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180.
Perhaps you should ponder on the fate of Ananias before making a statement such as this .
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I would if I kew who Ananias was, as I told you once before Patricia I am no bible puncher,nor am I sactamonious or could be compared to Hycinth Bucket, the ammount neither is the name kiwi an anagram of wikki or anything else you may care to dream up.
it was used merely beacuse Effie only contains 5 letters and 6 is required to sign up for the site.
Then again iI would never swear alegiance to our queen either, then get down on my hands and knees to pray for a military take over which is no more than a Junta. How many Junta's in this world would accept a Monarch as head of State
BTW how are your daughter-in-laws and have you managed to broaden your horizons yet?.
Do you spend each and every night trawling through this site to see what I have written. Qhat a sad emty life style to lead.
Oh that little green monster how it must nag away at you, and how I really must get to you to take the trouble of joining this site. BTW I still have on copy the last post I ever addressed to you.It makes for iteresting reading do you not think.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
BTW Patricia, this blog site is not like that you are used to, not even like the daily Mail which you comment on from time to time either.
Just go slightly off thread and the post is referred to the moderators. If that happens to you it is not by my deed or anything I have done.
I prefer people to see you in your true colours for the person you are, not the person who you think you are.
You are under one hell of an illusion my dear.
At least with me what they see is what they get no iffs and buts. No airs or graces.
They either take it or do the other full stop!
At my ageI have stopped caring a damn what people think, I only worry about those that are important to me and no one else.
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Oh dear Patricia how the truth doth hurt and no mistake.
Shame I have followed my usual practice of copying everything I write. How sad for you to find I still do that.
It comes in handy held in my archives.
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Your starter for 10 begins now Patsy are you sitting comfortably, now we can begin.
Get your finger on that " complain abut this comment button" your time starts now. GO!!!
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Forgot to tell you Patricia, I am an insomniac it is going to be a very long night. I am not even tired yet,how about you?
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I wonder how many times in persons life one lives to regret an action one has taken.
Some people just never learn and realise just how far out of their depth they can go until they learn the hard way. Some never ever learn the lesson then at all.
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#To the moderater in the last six hours you have referred to the moderater sixteen posts from kiwilegs, now I know she's a fiesty lady but sixteen posts you must have recieved complaints to have removed that many, a few of us bloggers are quite aware who is doing this and you obviously know who it is. I respectfully request that you question the motives of this person making these complaints as there are already certain bloggers who are preparing to leave these blogs it would be a great pity if this continues as although we all have differing viewpoints and somtimes opinions get a little heated it remains a good talking forum.
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# 202 OoH!so we have another finger pusher have we kiwilegs sad is'nt it if they cant stand the heat why dont they stay out of the kitchen,or put more understandably for these poor souls if you cant take your word being scrutinised then stay off the blogs, how long for this one to come off Kiwi.
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Yes grandantidpote unfortunately for them, I will not allow any of them to get top side of me. And if they did not know it then, they certainly know it now.
Yes another finger pusher hell bent on causing mischief. For no other reason than she can, but then so can I.
We will see who wears who out first.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Come to think of it Grandantidote there has been more than one newcomer to this site today.
I wonder how long they have been signed on. What is their true agenda. One did sound remarkably like someone we know, but then when I mentioed that it was never denied only referred to the moderator how peculiar is that?
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Grandantidote, it appears to have ceased now for a little while. You are correct though when you say the regulator needs to question the motive of the person who is having these posts referred to the moderator. I for one will not turn the other cheek i will fight my corner and never give in to this form of blogger blackmail.
One thing I would ask of the regulator, how long has the person been signed onto this site?
And for what purpose? Could it be to make mischief?
What is the motive?
Has that person been signed on for a few hours, 1 whole day, 1 whole week or 1 month. Just how long?
That question needs to be asked.
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# moderaters unbelievable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Moderator, I would still like my post N0.211 to be seen, as it is thanking those who helped me yesterday and I would hate to go off on holidays, knowing that they have not recieved my utmost thanks for their support.
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Grandantidote, depending on flights available out of Charles-De-Gaulle Airport (France)
We will hopefully be off on a visit to our Son in the USA.
So do not fret if I disappear for a few weeks, I will be back. T
hank you very much and also DH Wilkinson plus others for their support yesterday. It speaks volumes about your character also, that you defended me so valiently and came under attack yourself. many thank once again Kiwilegs.
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# 214 kiwi legs. Sorry to see you go, but I hope you have a great holiday, I guess the rest of us will have to soldier on without you, dont stay away too long,look after yourself and come back soon.
We'll carry on the fight against what Teresa May called rightly the nasty party. fingers at the ready girls and boys.
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Oh, well said Patricia30!!!
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Well,well well. Which one of those feisty, indomitable "I can take it" Labour Luvvies has had their finger on the button now?.
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I really would like an explanation as to just how my posts have fallen foul of the moderators when the ranting mass of distortion and spin which purports to be an honest post @199 has managed to escape.
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Just take a look at this blast from the past starring kiwilegs, mutleys pup and grandy.
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It's all gone very quiet.
Has Nick emigrated?
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Seems to me many men "in power" or in elevated positions become greedy. Much like the general public - "the more you have the more you must have". Adverts everywhere saying "you're worth it", "must-have" items.
Flippin ridiculous. Grabbing culture.
Everything has to change - but under a Conservative government who have now learned so much of what NOT to do under this present lot that they are well equipped for the job.
Can't wait...... The only thing we truly MUST HAVE is a change of government (I see the BNP have made a hold in leafy Kent!). Hmmmm
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flame
We've been saying the same for years. You've only got to look at Allen Stanford, who has just been arrested for fraud on a global scale.
Things have got to change - and radically, before faith is restored in government, but it's going to be a very bumpy ride.
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Funny that this government seems to be doing its best to demoralise the public - from berating and prosecuting you for what you put in your rubbish bin to making you neurotic about emissions, plastic bags (is the oil they are made from which they don't want to waste?) to not being able to say GOLLIWOG etc ...list goes on.
However, they are rather stupid because, whilst demoralising us and worry us silly with the "WAR ON TERROR" they are getting nasty on tv (Mandy et al) if anybody is seen to be "talking down the economy".
Come you Labour oafs, you can't have it both ways.
I think it is now firmly established that Conservatives will win the election with a resounding majority.
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Uh-oh, just seen somebody called Patricia30. Haven't read her posts but have to say it is NOT me in case anybody wonders.
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