The difference of a year
A year ago, Gordon of the Treasury was packing. He was about to make the longest journey of his life - moving next door from No 11 to No 10.
After a decade of being restricted to governing the economy, Gordon Brown was now making plans to govern everything else. He and his closest advisers took for granted that he would carry with him the lexicon of the Brown decade - prudence, stability, no boom and bust. They were preparing to unveil what he would call "a new government with new priorities".
What a difference a year makes. It is the old priorities of an old government that are at the heart of Gordon Brown's new problems. No surprise then that some in No 10 are arguing that a new economic plan should be the centrepiece of an autumn fightback.
They have concluded that the old tunes are sounding dated. They believe that it's no longer enough to declare that the man who steered the economy away from the rocks for 10 years will be able to do so again. Instead, I'm told, the public is to be presented with a new analysis: explaining why the PM is not merely whistling in the wind when he predicts that the British economy will weather the current storm; setting out how future decisions on tax and spending; on the environment, education and skills will help prepare Britain for a better economic future.
Now, this raises a mighty big question. A question highlighted by the fact that a cabinet reshuffle is said to have been pencilled in for around the same time. Does a new economic plan need a new chancellor? It's a question some close to the PM are pondering.
The arguments for a change are simple. Alistair Darling, it's said, has not established himself as a strong independent figure in the City, the country or in Parliament. The last thing the government needs at this time, the argument goes, is a cautious conservative chancellor.
The arguments against begin with sympathy for a man who, many of his colleagues believe, has calmly and stoically taken the rap for the PM's mistakes -whether a Budget dictated by the election that never was or the unwillingness to accept there were losers from scrapping the 10p tax rate.
The debate soon turns, of course, to who would take over - Alan Johnson, some say, would have the popular touch and is English, to boot. So too, David Miliband who's bright enough to easily make the switch from the Foreign Office. Promote either and Gordon Brown would be promoting a man who could soon replace him. Why not then the man he may want to succeed him - his old economic adviser Ed Balls? Blairites are not alone in thinking of many reasons why not.
Darling, an old friend and trusted ally of Brown's, may well survive in his job but a question some are pushing this for the summer is whether Gordon Brown should lay down his friend for his political life.
This is the script of my essay on this morning's Today programme.
I'm 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~54~RS~)
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"Does a new economic plan need a new chancellor?"
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What it really needs is a new Government with a new Prime Minister to go with a new Chancellor!
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I heard Nick on the Today prog. If Labour really want to court oblivion, stick Balls in as Chancellor. It would IMHO be madness and the media would love it, just think of the headlines when anything goes wrong........
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Nick your last argument about a change in chancellor sounds right;
The arguments for a change are simple. Alistair Darling, it's said, has not established himself as a strong independent figure in the City, the country or in Parliament.
But unfortunately those self same arguments can be applied to our lame duck PM. Can we not have a reshuffle of government as well?
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What prudence.
Brown has taxed and wasted billions. During a decade of unprecedented economic growth he took our borrowing to record levels, and hid massive amounts of debt in the form of PFIs. He sold our gold when prices were at an all time low, raided private pension funds while the massive rise in public sector pensions will have to be paid for by our children well into middle age.
I just cant wait for the new plan. But it cant be less prudent that the last one can it.
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If not Alistair Darling then who else?
Gordon has surrounded himself with political weaklings and frozen out anybody with any talent.
10 years of backstabbing is coming home to roost. Unfortunately for the public at large, we have nobody with sufficient clout to fill the shoes of Chancellor.
Whilst we are at it, lets be honest, there are very few with sufficient clout in any ministerial role in this government.
The train wreck continues.......
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You want to know how much difference a year makes?
Gordon Brown seriously believes he will be PM beyond the next election.
As a former Labour supporter of over 30 years voting all I can say is
hahahahahahaha - you cannot be serious
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It is not a new chancellor we need it is a new government !!!!
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You are a bit late with this one, Nick,
I noted it last week here:
http://theorangepartyblog.blogspot.com/2008/06/brown-set-to-tighten-his-grip-on-power.html
Of course a Cabinet reshuffle is on the cards - Ed Miliband was even spotted sitting next to Brown at PMQs.
I'm just waiting to use the headline: 'Move Over Darling'.
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I seem to remember Gordon saying recently that there would be no reshuffle and everyone would remain in situ until the GE. Never mind what difference a year makes, in this case its about a week.
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Nick,
Your words: "took for granted that he would carry with him the lexicon of the Brown decade - prudence, stability, no boom and bust."
Prudence was only the "girlfriend" for a couple of years, she was upright and boring then Gordon Brown (son of the Manse) went off the rails and found the new love of his life, an alluring young lady called Profligacy and her sister that he was intimately involved in behind the public's back, PeePee F who also went under the alias of Pee-ef-eye and Peepeepee. Together they all got high on a drug called “Squander" also know by its users as "taxing the hard working families” and “borrow it".
We now have the withdrawal, the only problem is that the greater the dependency on Squander the harder it is to get off it.
Welcome to the reality of Brown's Britain; or should I say England because the use of Squander in Health, Education, Law and Transport in other parts of the Union, he passed that on to other users.
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I realise we're in danger of being in our own "Ivory Tower" as commenters on Nick's blog.
What I'd be interested in is a) to find out the extent to which the Population at large shares our views - whichever they may be.
Also b), another is a discussion of something which surfaced at the wedding I was at this weekend.
IMO there is an incipient crisis facing those with centre-left political views.
Namely that this Government has failed, but more importantly, the whole centre-left worldview is going down with it.
Nick, if you (or others) have any views of what will replace this worldview and meet their aspirations - I'd be fascinated to hear it / them.
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Nothing can help Britain prepare for a better economic future for the simple reason that the political entity 'Britain' is very near the end of its shelf-life.
I give it three more years at most.
I do occasionally wonder if it was just me, but I speak to people here in England and I am told - yes, it is over - people can see it {Britain} coming to an end - so why do the politicians at Westminster have such a problem with that?
After all, it won't be long before they, well, Dave and his motley crew, will be having to handle it.
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The problem with this all is that you assume that the Government have somehow done something wrong when it comes to governance of the country.
Yes, politically, GB and his cabinet have made some outstanding mistakes
Yes, GB sounds weak on issues often, ill at ease, clumsy with his communication.
But the core - the running of the balance books, the day to day governance (a little of which came out this weekend with the law lords ruling about anonymity) , has this government actually got that wrong?
As a member of the British Public, I have to say I really don't know.
I always have had the feeling that government, democratic government especially, has in reality a very small and slow effect on the country - and cannot expect to have more than that. Often government follows rather than leads; chasing the fact and claiming credit where it is good news.
I don't believe if the Boy David had been in power these last two years we would be in any different position than we are now - we would just be crowing about a different batch of facile political ups and downs.
Crime is up, not because the justice bills are wrong, but because society (lead by the media) thinks anything goes, and then cries when the anything turns rounds and bites.
The economy is in a bad way because a handful of traders and speculators (outside of anyone's control) are greedy and opportunistic and don't give a damn.
Our education is patchy because society is. If you fill a school with children who are not going to be great achievers, you wont get great GCSE results. Media and Ministers think that society is evenly spread, that every area has an equal balance of clever and not so clever. That flies in the face of everything we know about society - but lets ignore that.
Society cannot survive without government. But Government is good at somethings, and society is better at others. Now we expect government to be responsible for it all, and are suprised when it all falls apart.
Or, at least we are told it has fallen apart.
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Surely you're having a laugh, Nick?
I thought the story doing the rounds -
(Tories have nothing else better to do than to hope and pray for forgiveness by the voters-and put out nonsense stories)
was that any Chancellor installed by Gordon would be Gordon's mouthpiece and puppet?
Are we now to believe (Tory story) that Ed Balls would be a fiercely independent Chancellor kicking ass all over the place?
Come on, please!
Just drop the interest rates as inflation is not the problem. The USA is more right than it is wrong, it's whether we dare to do it, or should I say, the Bank of England who have got it spectacularly wrong for two years.
Alastair Darling isn't the problem. It's the economy............er........Nick! (couldn't resist)
Gary
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So lets just examine this for a moment. Alistair Darling comes in and takes the flak for policies that Gordon Brown and Ed Balls devised and are now shown to be failing. The solution to this - presumably briefed by No 10 - is that Balls is the man to set a new direction! This is a joke surely. Call Richard Curtis and the BlackAdder team!
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13 Gurubear
I suggest you read the book "Squandered: How Gordon Brown is wasting over 1 Trillion Pounds of our Money" by David Craig
This book puts the boot into many Tory policies from previous adminstrations which have cost the tax payer dearly, but you will find the analysis of this governments record jaw dropping.
Government should provide a framework for society. This government has expensively failed us whilst boasting about its 'triumphs'.
I do agree, however, that society has a certain responsibility to itself and we are currently letting our standards slip.
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Turkeybellyboy @ 11.
As a left-winger, I have to ask you why you think that NuLab is a centre-left government when in fact it's centre-right.
Brown and the rest of the NuLab shower are actually running scared from two directions. They've got Cameron snapping at their heels one way and the cast-iron certainty that if they lose the next election, it will be mainly NuLab MPs that bite the dust as opposed to the harder-left MPs as the NuLab MPs tend to be in more marginal seats. In the ensuing civil war that will surely follow, the left will reclaim the party and the entire NuLab 'project' will be dismantled and disposed of.
Cameron will then show what a weak insipid man he is as the tory party, whilst in government, tears itself apart over europe.
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Dear Nick,
Ever since Neville Chamberlain has there been a Primeminister hated as much as Gordon Brown, ====== who still runs the treasury, with his mouth piece Darling.
There is every indication that Gordon Brown is still pulling the strings, the sooner both go the better. "why"?
Brown is not up to the job.
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It is unfortunate that this country is forced to tread water, politically, for the next 18 months while we await the opportunity to throw out this current bunch of wasters(sic).
It is made all the more tragic, that at a time of increasing economic woes this lot will be shown to be devoid of initiative or guts to steer this country to a even remotely positive outcome.
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"Gordon has surrounded himself with political weaklings and frozen out anybody with any talent."
Who, exactly, are you referring to? The problem isn't that the talented people were frozen out, but that they aren't around. Clarke, Reid, Milburn et al hardly count as magnificent and unfairly maligned titans.
The only particularly capable politicians of that generation who spring to mind are Mo Mowlem and Robin Cook, both of whom are sadly unavailable.
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13. At 10:18am on 23 Jun 2008, Gurubear wrote:
"But the core - the running of the balance books, the day to day governance (a little of which came out this weekend with the law lords ruling about anonymity) , has this government actually got that wrong?"
Err, the books were only balanced by Brown ripping out half of the pages and hiding them.
That won't change with a new chancellor.
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This government has made some bad tactical and strategic judgements. There have also been some notable achievements. This country is very different to the one I remember 20 years ago. We have become less tolerant of failure but also less willing to acknowledge success. We demand more individual freedom but resist action for the long term benefit of society.
Politicians have become isolated in their own little world. They are salesmen dealing in misinformation and sound bites. I don't trust any of them.
Not everything is the fault of the government. They didn't create the vandals, addicts, layabouts and antisocialists. We all share responsibility for the decay in standards and behaviour.
Some of the contributors need to take their heads out of their political bottoms, then they might realise not everything is Brown.
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Alex Salmond and the SNP Government in Scotland are desparate to stop Brown in Westminster squandering any more of the North Sea Oil income.
Salmond wants 10% of the income form North Sea Oil to be put in a Scottish sovereign fund for future investment in Scotland.
Salmond has seen how prudently the Norwegians have managed their income from the North Sea fund, and they have built up a huge fund which will serve Norway for decades.
Those wasters at Westminster have got to be stopped ... it is too late for England but at least the Scottish people have a Government which is fighting for them.
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At the weekend Alistair Darling was peddling the line that "we have to keep to the 2% pay increase, because higher increases would just lead to higher inflation which would mean prices going up by more than our wages". Either he can't do maths, or he thinks we're all stupid. Someone needs to tell him that prices are already going up by more than wages, which is why people want a better pay settlement.
Now I fully accept that there may be good economic reasons to keep pay increases at 2% whilst inflation goes well above that but this is not one of them.
Saying that we shouldn't do something because it might be just as bad as it is now is complete tripe.
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There are two positions in government that people should be able to respect if not trust, Prime Minister and Chancellor of the Exchequer.
Currently there are very few people who feel genuine repect the PM therefore since the CoE is appointed by the PM there is a credability gap in the eyes of the country. Also because the Brown power base is in the Treasury there is a perceved lack of independence of the CoE in any decision or action he takes, hence the Harry Corbett and Sooty analogy proposed earlier could be justified.
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Interesting comments so far and I heard your piece on Today this morning. Miliband or Balls as Chancellor would be interesting but would they have the necessary clout as you say with the City? But how important is that? What about clout with the rest of the country, considering the economy is the sum of all parts? Surely a cabinet reshuffle in times of instability (if that is truly where we are at) just sends out signals of panic at the helm? I mean not all the problems are the fault of the government so given another year, Darling may prove himself. At the same time it wouldn't be easy for any Chancellor, who will always be in the shadow of the longest standing Chancellor now Prime Minister. For other woes that have been highlighted in other comments, I think we all have to share the responsibility. New laws and acts that have been passed generally show the lack of trust the government (maybe Parliament) has for the people and in turn we don't trust them nor each other. And that is really highlighted here. We don't trust Brown and company, in turn why should they trust us? The 80's inspired individualism, the 90's continued it and now we are trying to re-capture social cohesion against the previous tide of selfishness. That is the Blair/Brown legacy. Brown/Darling probably should be given a bit more of a chance.
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A new chancellor will make no difference, for 2 reasons:
1) Whoever it is will still be forced to do whatever Brown tells him to do; Brown'll never give up running the treasury via his puppets/muppets.
2) No current Labour MPs have any skills/understanding at all when it comes to the economy or management generally, they're all as mind-blowingly incompetent/negligent as each other, so even if Brown got kicked out his successor wouldn't do any better.
There's only one solution, and that's a general election to kick labour out en-masse before they destroy what little remains of the country.
The Iron/Prudent Chancellor? Don't make me laugh; Brown's spent 10 years destroying the economy; the damage he's done to this country is only just beginning to be shown; the real scale of the disaster will only come out when labour are kicked out and their successors can finally get their hands on the real books without all the lies/obfuscation that Brown's put into the public books.
Brown/Labour have killed our economy; they need booting out right now before they do any more damage.
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Nick
Brown has said again and again that he will steer the country through the current 'economic uncertainties' just as he claims to have done before.
That was (aparantly) his job as Chancellor last time - so if he is doing it as PM this time what do we need a Chancellor for?
Brown is clearly a good book-keeper - that is how he managed to cook the books for so long. Only he has any chance of maintaining the tangled web that he weaved (while practising to deceive) and he knows it.
I don't see any other candidate that could even keep the books, let alone offer leadership and a competent strategic direction.
The country will be best off if the books are just held together untill our new government takes over.
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He may possibly replace the puppet but the country's lost faith in the ventriloquist himself.
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Whatever Brown does or doesn't do matters not.
Brown and Labour are finished and will be routed at the next election with a Tory landslide.
The country has simply had enough and wants change.
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Gordon is the problem.
For years he has blamed the previous administration for all his ills with boom and bust policies whilst promoting how great he was.
That clearly wasn't the case and he was just storing up problems for later.
He has presided over a boom and bust which we haven't seen the full effect of yet and its him that has to go as well as get a new chancellor.Although i am quite amused at seeing him blame the world for our problems now,when we all know the reasons were much closer to home.
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For the next two years the government will like King Canute attempting to turn back the tide re-launch,review,re-shuffle,spin,blame others,point out irrelevant catastrophes a decade or more ago,denigrate their political opponents,laud their successes and obscure their failures.
However like all administrations that have been in power for a long period successes get taken for granted, after all is that not what the electorate expected when they were voted into power.It is the failures and the cumulative effect of these failures over years which infect the public pscyhe and make it inevitable that any government effectively sows the seeds of it's own downfall.
Therefore whether it is Ed Balls or David Milliband or any other prominent Labour politician being propelled into one of the major cabinet seats put simply is irrelevant.Incidentally i agree with adrianfife2's and megapoliticajunkie's remarks on the former gentleman.As for the latter the recent performance on Question Time was not only lightweight but feintly embarrasing .
It would now take a miracle for the government to break the natural order of events in fact they are powerless to do so ;only the intervention of unforseen circumstances can prevent their relinquishment of power at the next election.
So like the USA during the close of a two term president we effectively have a lame duck administration in Whitehall for the next two years absorbed with it's futile attempts to cling to power whilst diverting it's attention from the real issues confronting the British peoples.
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Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!......... I just saw this:
"Meanwhile new laws could see wolf-whistling builders placed on the sex offenders register. The Sexual Offences (Scotland) Bill will create a new offence of "communicating indecently", punishable by up to 10 years in jail. "
There are some dire politicians in the UK.....
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Surely the problem for Gordon is not Darling. He says he weathered all the previous storms. But in the investment banking world the drums must have been beating over sub-prime mortgages and the knock on derivatives effects. But Gordon did not see it coming despite all of his investment banker friends.
Then there is the issue of myth - was Gordon a great Chancellor or a lucky Chancellor as Ken Clarke would have it.
He wasn't awful - but was he great?
There was pretty well consensus for an independent Bank of England - but it was a good move.
My own personal experience relates to IR35. A great Brownite attempt to take in extra cash from people doing well with no significant political backlash. The trouble was nobody understood IR35 including the tax inspectors.
My point is that with Brown there is the image but may be that image derives from people mistaking confusion for brilliance.
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Nick
Just wondering how all this will stack up and what happens if the Labour Party goes into administration because of its financial problems. Does there have to be an election if members of the sitting government suddenly find themselves belonging to a party that no longer exists?
How can they then represent people who voted for them because of party affiliation?
If Labour does not have the funds to fight the next election, what happens?
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I'm sorry I am not able to read any of the other comments, (I'm not quite sure why this is) but I just wanted to say that I thought the article above a fair analysis of the situation, just as New Labour had too much to tackle after the election of 1997, so it would have been easier for Gordon Brown if Blair had resigned after the affair of the "dodgy dossier" and the David Kelly tragedy. He has inherited too much "baggage" from the Blair years.
But, in my opinion, would be advised in any cabinet reshuffle to appoint a potential rival to chancellor, if he does intend to replace Darling. Governments are invariably judged in retrospect, however unpopular they appear to be at the time. Gordon Brown owes it to us to appoint the best qualified candidate for the job.
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@35. All that will happen is a little subterfuge, some smoke and mirrors, a lot of self-justification and Hey Presto! - state funded parties.
That will guarentee the survival of the big two at our expense, keep the LibDems hanging and probably eviscerate Plaid, SNP, UKIP and the BNP etc.
The reality is that funding for any party should be via it's membership subscriptions only. If they lack appeal then they will shrivel and die.
But that's the law of market forces and that doesn't apply to the politicians, just joe schmo and his wages, petrol and mortgage.
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Well, let Gordon have his way, let him play musical chairs, let him imagine he and his party have a future, and let him fantasize about his future role in putting the great back into Great Britain. They're going to re-package themselves again and it won't be the last time before they're booted out of office. My point is, who is really listening? We may never get the chance to really vote in a party we like completely, but we will, in the near future, get a chance to vote out a party we despise completely. It's like one of those old carry-on films, cheap sets, cheap acting, poor scripts, but this time without the fun.
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I think that anyone in the role as Chancellor, in a Gordon-led Government, will face enourmous difficulties, since in coporate governance parlance we have in Gordon a Chairman who is also Chief Executive, and who was once the Chief Financial Officer. In practice, this means that no one can be critical of past financial management, since this would be interpreted to being a criticism of the Prime Minister.
Whoever is Chancellor has therefore to be a steady eddie type. Miliband is not Chancellor material. Ed Balls might be, but if he aspires to be the heir then he can't be placed in potential conflict with the PM; his recent utterances that seem to be of a leftward stance are unlikely to be suitable in any event (unless that's the direction Labour is now heading). Alan Johnson is unlikely to be effective enough. So, if it's not Darling, then a Jack Straw might cut it.
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I'll give you a clue Nick as to who will be the next Chancellor.
A few weeks ago there was the annual Bilderberg meeting , that suspiciously nobody in the mainstream media ever seem to mention occuring, where Ed Balls attended as well as George Osbourne too.
Do I need a piece of chalk to spell it out for you Nick?
Just a bit of an insider tip if you are a betting man as to who the next chancellor will be.
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38#
Its a Party YOU despise not WE.
Your opinion not everyone elses.
Like many on here you cant wait to get the Bullingdon Boys, those Political and Economic Heavyweights in to run the country, a view many DONT share.
Thank goodness for democracy and a FIVE YEAR Mandate.
13#Gurubear, a voice of reason, very thoughtful post, but on here if someone gets up with a hangover after drinking 8 pints, the blame lies with the goverment and Gordon Brown.
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The most frustrating thing about this blog entry from Nick is how it highlights the complete futility of 'rearranging the deckchairs' yet again.
So, who is going to be this weeks Chancellor then?
The whole concept is deeply flawed.
Appropriately qualified people must be placed in these Ministerial positions .. they have previously have build up relevant experience and qualifications before being selected for these jobs.
For example, it is simply insane to put a lawyer. with no relevant experience of finance, in the position of Chancellor.
When you keep doing this sort of thing, you are not going to get professional outcomes.
In essence, it is mismanagement on a horrific scale.
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OK, let me re-phrase it for you: A party most of us despise. Except for, that is, a few tired old troopers like yourself. Surely you must be getting sick of banging your head against that brick wall by now? Doesn't it hurt? I can't imagine what it's like to get up every morning and listen to all that yak yak yak from dear old Gordon, knowing his days are numbered.
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What a difference a year makes .........
Like Mugabe, Brown reigns unelected, but fortunately, as yet, we are not actually bashed on the head if we oppose. The trouble is, that unlike Midas, everything Brown touches turns to dross, and he is surrounded by small characters, Milliband, Straw, Darling, and the remains of the Blair Babe Brigade. There is nobody with the wisdom, true experience and honesty to help direct this floudering ship.
On the horizon, new perils present themselves. Using a pincer movement, democracy is being crushed in the name of national security. Local councils will be even more able to spy on citizens, personal data will be there to be perused by petty officials, and then, not impossibly, sold off for identity fraud. The very reason that these draconian laws were passed, to bolster national security, will actually be used for the opposite purpose.
The terrible thing is that I cannot visualise anything better in the opposition. David Davis has gone from the Tory party, and one can only see Osbourne, Leftwin, and other inferior hangers-on. The Nat-Libs are a lost cause, so let us pray that as happened in the past, dire days will produce a saviour. Perhaps a new Churchillian figure will come forward - perhaps in the shape of Boris Johnson.
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@ 44
Dear God! Casting Boris Johnson in the role of potential saviour just shows how mediocre and febrile most politicians are.
But then again, at least he's interesting to watch even if it is only for amusement.
The rest don't even make that grade.
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#42.
It certainly helps if your Chancellor is a city veteran. America's Treasury Secretary, Hank Paulson, is a former senior executive at a major bank. At the height of the Bear Stearns crisis he was constantly on the phone to all the major financial players urging them not to panic and turn it into a major crisis. Compare America's brutal but decisive handling of Bear Stearns with Darling's dithering over Northern Rock, simply to save Labour MP's in the North East.
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# 46
The Americans are a good example in this respect and so are the French, who insist that the people for these prospective roles endure a gruelling learning process first.
A lot of peopel do think that NR was 'saved' because of political consideratiosn by NL but I do not think that that was the case.
I think they were more worried about NR falling causing a systemic failure by contagion, i.e. the people rushing to withdraw funds from other banks.
Possibly bigger banks such as HBoS or Barclays.
Actually, I suspect that is happening anyway on the quiet, Building Societies such as the Yorkshire and Nationwide are being flooded with cash ... which I think is coming out of banks such as those mentioned above.
PS. Journalist William Rees-Mogg, writing in today's Times, suggests that as Browns personal approval ratings are so dire, then maybe if the Labour Party asked nicely Tony Blair might come back.
There is only one answer to that :
You cannot reheat a souffle.
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Dear Nick
Here in Brighton we have a fuel distribution depot, and speaking to drivers, there appears to be a concensus, that the 14% PAY RISE , for Shell tanker Drivers, was given, because the Government intervened, behind the scenes, It was considered too serious a problem to let it escalate,
So much for 2%, but now inflation IS 4;2% and to keep up, every person on a wage below £35,000 needs 20% to stabilise their income due to prices, the governemnt sat back and did nothing, as it watched the increases go for weeks, So do you blame anyone who wants a significant pay rise,
after all "the government sat back and did nothing, and has still done nothing."???
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43# Apology accepted Doctor.
When times are difficult as they are now a dose of reality is sometimes needed. Many on here can't even accept there are world factors and forces impacting on most economies in exactly the same way as the UK. So blinded are people by their hatred of anything government/Brown that facts would get in the way.
Opinions are spouted as facts, the more negative the better, any bad news appears to be good news and fans those flames all the more. There is tangible joy in some if the economy takes a hit as it provides moer ammo to sling. BUT, the real thinkers look for solutions or a differnt path. On here the only solution is get rid of Brown and the Government, well what are Cameron and Osbourne offering, can they bring down oil prices? solve the global credit crunch?, change the supply and demand differential in the commodity market?, increase world food production?
All they offer IMO is empty and shrill rhetoric, oh and an increase in inheritance tax threshold (that should sort things)
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Do you expect us to accept everything you write, such as 'They believe that it's no longer enough to declare that the man who steered the economy away from the rocks for 10 years will be able to do so again'?
Who do think is reading this garbage ? There are some of out here who believe it is Brown who has steered us onto the financial rocks in the time he was in the job.
The UK's financial situation will not be saved, as you suggest by dumping Darling, but by a change of government.
If you were to call for a general election, you might be surprised by the level of support you would attract from the electorate, instead of from that narrow band of sycophantic Labour supporters you currently satisfy.
Look outside the box !
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Strong independant chancellor never happen while Brown is pulling the strings. The last thing Brown needs is for someone to really get to grips with the economy and public spending. The coniption fits he would have if it was shown how he messed things up. He would never allow anyone to hold the purse srings as tight as he did with Blair.
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Nick, the only changing of the guards that I am aware of is within the Tory party.
Watch out for the daggers after the farcical Election of David Davis.
Nick, it's a sunny day, so why don't you go out and sunbath a little. It will do you good. Have a nice day Nick.
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There isn't a lot of point changing the CofE.
When Bob Carolgees swapped Spit the Dog for Cough the Cat the writing was already on the wall.
I think I may go on the dole until 2010 when we can vote in a different bunch
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What would be the point of having a new Chancellor. He or she would only be a front for Brown who is obviously still the Chancellor.
Between them the dour Scots, Brown and Darling, have absolutely no charisma and certainly no policies to get anyone excited, let alone themselves.
Not time for a new Chancellor, time for a new government
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eatonriifle
"So blinded are people by their hatred of anything government/Brown that facts would get in the way."
What you say is probably true but it is also the reason by Labour will be out at the next election.
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Ed Balls would be a disaster for the country. But as there is only 18 months before an election, there's only so much damage he can do to the economy. The damage he'll do to Labour's electoral chances will be a delight to watch.
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In my opinion Brown and Mugabe are both doing ONE thing that is similar. Destroying their countries without the first idea of how to get out of what they are doing. Both are idealists, men who want power for power's sake. Both will cling on to power no matter what.
Both should go now.
Lets see the interpretation of this post.
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Not everything Labour has done is bad but there have been far too many short term stunts and fixes, with too little attention on the boring business of running a competent and consistent administration. No "initiative" is seen through but rapidly overtaken with yet another to grab a headline.
Making matters worse has been the obsession with a plethora of targets and strategies driven by Treasury meddling and arrogant and ill-informed attempts at micro-managing everything. All that was driven by Brown and he cannot blame anyone else, that the chickens are coming home to roost on his watch. And with each reshuffle and tinkering with departmental organisation, it has been back to the drawing board to replace the uncompleted strategies, business plans, targets etc with another raft. To adopt George Osborne's rather trite slogan, they never finished fixing the roof because they kept changing the shape and the materials every time they looked up and thought of a version that would photograph better - no matter if it kep the rain out.
And any government in power for so long accumulates too many unfulfilled promises, and the pool of talent for ministerial office dries up. And the unfortunate fact is that Gordon Brown is just so unlikeable. That might not matter if her were respected but all the years of plotting against Blair put paid to that.
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58 michaelmj
A perfect summary. I think they can close this subject now!!!
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I'm afraid the only people who believed in the midas touch of Brown as chancellor were the press eager to suck up to new labour.When the books are finally opened to how much debt this country really has it will surprise only the blinkered press.He only survived by looting the lottery fund and other peoples pension fund(not his own).
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Mikepko
I think ANY comparison between Brown and Mugabe realy is going to far Mike considering that Mugabe has just orchestrated a campaign of terror and intimidation including Murder. Even to compare their respective democratic mandate is an insult to our democracy if nothing else. Brown, Cameron, Major, Thatcher, take your pick are reasonable human beings by comparison whatver our individual politics.
As for your other points , what is it about the Tory policies and individuals that you cant wait for the country to benefit from.
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Alistair Darling has said that "we have to keep to the 2% pay increase, because higher increases would just lead to higher inflation which would mean prices going up by more than our wages"
Also in the news, MPs might grat themselves a a 68% pay rise to help obscure their dodgy expense claims - and note that this, unlike expenses, is pensionable income!
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re post No11. If you are discussing centre left ideology at a wedding then the DJ must have been poor!!!
In my view GB should swap Milliband and Darling around. I think Milliband has looked really out of place as Foreign secretary. With everything kicking off in Zimbabwe at the moment it needs an experienced and reasoned politician like Darling. I think Milliband would make a good chancellor and an excellent counterfoil to George Osborne.
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#47 JohnConstable: "A lot of peopel do think that NR was 'saved' because of political consideratiosn by NL but I do not think that that was the case.
I think they were more worried about NR falling causing a systemic failure by contagion, i.e. the people rushing to withdraw funds from other banks."
I'm sure you're right, but your explanation is hardly original. That was what the government said the reason for their successful intervention was. 'A lot of people' are wrong; they usually are when prayed in aid on this board.
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#48 solomanbrown: Oh well! If the drivers in Brighton are saying that it must be true, mustn't it? Next time you're talking to them perhaps you'd ask them to let you know where bin Laden is hanging out, so you can let us all know.
Sorry, shouldn't be sarky, but this sort of comment disturbs my usually stable equilibrium something rotten.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Well Nick your blog has certainly flushed out all the Tory wish full thinkers.
Do they honestly believe that all these ill thought out ridiculous rantings is how the rest of the country thinks if they do then their living in fantasy land and not showing our country in its best light.
Have they not heard of moderation in all things, we have even had some rather perculiar individual suggest that mugabwe and Gordon Brown were as bad as each other, this is not only an insult to Gordon but also to the British people, it does'nt matter how some people think of GB, to many of us he is our Prime ministerand we expect him to be treated with respect.
As each one of them tries to reach for the ultimate insult, so another one thinks Oh! I can think of a better insult than that, the trouble with that of course is that they are all feeding of each other, they have nothing of any real consiquence to say so they just keep babling out the same old rheteric every day no matter what the blog.
We get comments like " you few old troopers"yes I guess you could call us old troopers but the population is full of old troopers, all who remember the last government of Tory clowns and their all sitting in their backbench seats waiting and hoping that dangerous Dave that wonderful economist, what was it about lamont? and gormless Gidion manage to wrest power from labour ,so that they can step in and take over again, then heaven help us.
one of these days some of you Tories not all will wake up and realise how lucky you were to have a Labour government.
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49. You are just as unbalanced as Conservative supporters; according to you nothing is Brown's fault so no one else could do any better. How about cutting the Quango's by half, telling the EU we are no longer going to pay our vastly increased contribution (thank you Mr Blair) or changing the tax system so that the lower paid pay less tax instead of having to pay it first and then beg for it back from incompetent civil servants? There are many more ways that money could be saved and used to reduce taxes and hopefully will be once we have a change of government.
Try to understand that people have a right to disagree with you, it's called democracy, and once you have grasped the concept it might make you a happier person.
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Mr Constable @ 47 (et al)
While it would be very nice to have ministers with expertise, this leads us to a couple of problems. Either, as the Tories found, Liam Fox didn't actually want to be labelled as their health spokesman for his entire career, or we have to go down the American route (as you suggested). The problem is that Condi Rice, Rumsfeld, Powell etc weren't elected and were appointed instead. While I can see the case for actually appointing experts to the senior positions, parliament would be up in arms about unaccountable sofa-government etc. The other alternative is to give any expert a knighthood, but then that means that they are still in the HoL for life even if they resign/are fired/govt is unelected after a couple of years.
I'm not entirely sure which solution is best, any suggestions anyone else?
Also, sorry to be slightly boring on this (not to Mr Constable but to others): Given what is going on in Zimbabwe at the moment with rape and torture of political opponents, don't you think it's going too far to be comparing Mr Brown to Mugabe?
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Grandantidote - comments like "a few old troopers" can easily be justified. All you have to do is look at the blogs, where a rough count has at least 85% of posters at least hostile to Gordon, or look at the polls, which consistently show Gordon in a bad light, or look at recent election results which show Labour plummeting to new depths.
That's why people who still blindly chant "Gordon is good, Gordon is good" and refuse to accept the major problems he has left us, get referred to as "a few old troopers".
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Ref Eatonrifle
Most is fair but are they simply the characteristics of the political game for both sides. Sadly.
As to what will the Tories offer. The Tories will instinctively move towards reducing big government, crippling taxation, high public spending and reduce waste and therefore improve efficiency. I suspect that these are the Tory policies people want to see the benefit from.
We have had too many years of high taxation and poor results and massive waste. Not to mention a failure on some fairly key policies. Tough on Crime etc.
Even if a Tory government takes years to turn the tanker around, at least we wont have full steam ahead on the same course labour have chartered the last 10 years.
People want change for its sake. That is just what happens when you get things wrong so badly and for so long.
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Not everything that this government has done over the past decade has been bad, but those who echo Brown in pointing to worldwide events as the sole cause of our current economic misery need to open their eyes a bit more. The price paid for petrol at the pump is FOUR times higher in the UK than it is in Australia. The Aussies have to buy their petrol on the same worldwide market as we do. They just tax it less. The price of fuel at the pumps has a knock on effect for the price of everything transported by road - like your food.
The incessant tax rises, much of them cleverly hidden from view, were bound to have an impact on our economy eventually, and that point has now been reached, and with impeccable timing just as the world economic situation takes a turn for the worse, making our pain twice as bad as that in other countries - with whom incidentally we have to compete.
Blind loyalty to a football or cricket team, in spite of poor results, is one thing; applying the same unquestioning loyalty to a political party is just plain daft. Some things may have improved under this government, but the question that has to be asked is: is the price too high? For most "hardworking families" (to quote Mr Brown) the answer is now "yes". A change of chancellor will alter nothing. It is a change of government that we now badly need.
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Does it really matter who is said to be running things? One figurehead is as good an any other, be he/she called labour or tory. The problems stem from the civil servants behind them - without changing these there will be policy continuity and thus no change.
Are we not in danger of being conned into believing that changing from Brown to Cameron is any more of a change than from Blair to Brown or indeed Thatcher to Blair?
I am not saying a plague on all your houses, but asking that we should grow up a bit and understand how thing actually work. Also are we not be taken in by the popular press (and this blog!) by letting them persuade us that Labour to Conservaive is a change at all!
Mr Boris Johnson is showing us all just how unfitted the present tory party would be if it took power. Even today in his latest howler he lost an adviser due to unfortunate ill judged racial remarks. Clowning around may be amusing but do we want if from a government? They must live in the real world and grow up to be taken seriously.
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Ref 67 grandantidote
"Do they honestly believe that all these ill thought out ridiculous rantings is how the rest of the country thinks"
Sir be serious. The last poll I saw Reuters April 08. puts Labours support at an all time low since records began in 1930.
Brown's personal ratings, which have fallen from plus 48 last August to minus 37, on a zero midpoint scale.
I quote "The collapse is the most dramatic of any modern-day prime minister, worse even than Neville Chamberlain who in 1940 dropped from plus 21 to minus 27 after Hitler's invasion of Norway,"
So hes less popular with the British public than the PM who appeased Hitler.
Now be fair that is an incredible achievement. And that was before David Davies started crusading for liberty and bumped the Tories up 2 points.
At least Chamberlain had the decency to fall on his sword.
But I do accept the Mugabe comparison was bizzar and wrong.
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Gordon's latest idea to get the Saudi's to sign up to selling their oil below market price, and using their reduced revenues to build our new power stations, so that we will then need even less of their oil in future; must be a very challenging proposal for the Saudi's. The rest of the developed world must be waiting with bated breath for their decision.
I'm not sure who advised Gordon on this masterpiece of economics, but it sounds very much like Balls to me. New Chancellor? new Chancer more like!
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Ref 67 grandantidote
Oh yes and for the purpose of balance and fairness in all things, may I respectfully point out that you are not exactly shy when it comes to banging out the insults.
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He needs to go, especially after his comments on below inflation wage deals.
One one hand he tells us all to be sensible and to demand more than (his calculation) the level of inflation. Yet the tanker drivers get 14% over two years and he states that it is "particular to that industry".
Total utter nonsense.
We now have the council workers going on strike. Once again the union involved donates to the Labour Party.
You need a strong chancellor in post, but unfortunately Mr Darling comes across as Gordon's puppet.
But hopefully Ed Balls will get the job. Then we might see a swift change of Government.
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Is it not strange that the ones that are nagging and complaining about the Government have nothing to suggest to maybe copy what other countries are doing.
What are other Governments doing?
Let's start with Berluscaoni's Government. The Italian government on Saturday defended its decision to use soldiers to patrol cities in an effort to curb crime, rejecting criticism that it will "militarise" the streets.
"There is a strong call from citizens for better control of the streets, for improved safety," Defence Minister Ignazio La Russa told Sky Italia television.
"My hope is that particularly in the evening, in the cities, these troops can ensure greater safety."
The government announced on Friday that up to 2,500 soldiers, some of whom have served in Afghanistan and Kosovo, would be made available for a trial period of six months to bolster the police in difficult urban areas.
So much for Berlusconi increasing salaries. Good night Nick.
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71# Russell
"The Tories will instinctively move towards reducing big government, crippling taxation, high public spending and reduce waste and therefore improve efficiency."
Your quote Russell, well if this is what they'll do so "instinctively", very strange their spending plans for the first two years are pledged to match Labour's.
If savings and waste cutting is so desperately needed surely the right thing to do would be to start right away??
Some instinct!!
68# Jaydkay
Without the aid of Google do you even know what a QANGO (no u) is or an example of one, before you arbitarilly take away 50% of them.
Your post typifies many on here!!
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I'm not convinced that changing Chancellor would make a difference. If Darling and Milliband were swapped leaving both still holding one of the "great offices" then maybe this would not be interpreted as panic. Why would Milliband want the job anyway? He has enough power to resist the move given Gordon's current ratings.
Labour MPs could do with a lift though and seeing Milliband run rings around Osborne would boost morale.
The truth is there is still time. "Events" and orchestrated media hostility have conspired against Brown. There is no way Brown can be as unlucky in the next 18 months as he has been in the last 12. As for the media it looks like the Murdoch empire is going to back Brown again. I look to see the Polls moving back to Labour gently over the Summer.
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"The debate soon turns, of course, to who would take over - Alan Johnson, some say, would have the popular touch and is English, to boot."
Since when did being English count as a qualification for being Chancellor of the Exchequer? This would seem to suggest that not being English is a disqualification for the post.
You expect the United Kingdom to last long on this basis?
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Come on, David Milliband is out of his depth at the Foreign Office, he has spent his whole life in politics and knows nothing of living in the real world. The problem with this lot is that they got rid of their big hitters and are now left with political chaff.
Welcome to the reality of Nulabour, 10 wasted years on an interesting experiment, a Trillion pounds wasted, thank you Gordon and his Gofors. It didn't work, the Ministry of Education cannot educate and the Ministry of Health kills thousands every year with MRSA and C. diff.
At least it saves millions on Pensions.
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The next Labour leader will almost certainly be Balls, and not only in name. Like Old Mother Hubbard Labour's cupboards are bare.
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Eatonrifle, I am convinced you are a Labour mole. Perhaps even the PM himself.
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Darling's future is tied to the Northern Rock fiasco. If the Rock's fortune's improve and the nationalisation goes well then Brown will be able to use that as an example of fiscal competence.
If there are further problems Brown will sack him to dump the blame on him. As ever the trick with chancellors is to sack them at the right time.
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Ref 79. Eatonrifle
You make a good point Sir. But Im not really sure that they have much choice. They have to stick to most of the current commitments and 2 years is nothing in terms of running an economy. 10 years is though. Change takes time.
Personally I just want them slow down, cut waste and not take on any new crazy initiatives for a while and perhaps put an end to a few projects just about to start. ID Cards for one.
Can I ask do you really want more of the same. Do you really feel you get value for the taxation and are you really happy with the debt we have.
Interestingly Qango is more commonly spelt Quango now.
Much more importantly The UK government's definition is a non-departmental public body or
"A body which has a role in the processes of national government, but is not a government department or part of one, and which accordingly operates to a greater or lesser extent at arm's length from ministers.
My definition ALOA (Another layer of administration) hasn’t yet been adopted but I live in hope.
Last year the Cabinet Office stopped publishing detailed breakdown of these 800 or so bodies finances and just provided the overall figures. (The break down was proving to embarrassing). They claim that overall cost was £32 billion. That’s the governments own figures. The Times recently reported the cost was a £100 billion.
The Carbon Trust pays its chief exec more than £200,000 a year. I think thats more than The PM. Not sure what he get these days. Could be wrong.
Did you know that the Potato Council has a £6m budget and employs 49 staff. Now I like potatoes, a lot actually as do the kids, we had some really nice ones tonight…. just not so sure they need promoting to this level.
SO do you think you could find some savings here. I bet you could.
Oh and go see what you money buys at www.britishpotatoes.co.uk. The article on "can I freeze potatoes" is a great read.
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82#
Your having a joke are'rt you about Milliband and "Out of his depth"
Where does that leave Hague then?
All this fellow has ever known is politics. Plus being able to down 10 pints of beer in his wildest dreams.
He was an old man at 15 years old.
A positive geriatric at 30 years old.
Since Ffion entered the scene, she has injected some form of normallity into his existance and he has appeared to be just a much younger man with the mind set of the ancient, but not aways the wise. Good after dinner talker and comedian, certainly "no doer"
Hague the would be PM, led the Conservatives to the worst defeat in their entire history, clinging onto "Saving the £".
He even had Ffion wear a piece of Jewellery of the Pound, allegedly given by him to her, to show both supported the Pound.
It turned out that Amanda Patell purchased the jewellery and gave it to Ffion to wear.
Much later this fiasco came to light when the people concerned started chasing to be paid. The joke was on them all.
Hague ,like a few others on that front bench are as genuine as a £10.00 Rolex.
Whether they have experience inside or outside of Politics.
BTW check that little gem out for yourself. Just google Amanda Patell and the GE that Hague fought and lost so badly.
Do not forget to find out about the jewellery. Makes enjoyable reading for some.
before you get back to me I do know without youinformimg me that he did get a seat more than John Major. As oppositiong generally recover after being in opposition for one election. Hague and the Tories stayed stagnant. He should have at least made some gains with some which had been the more safer of seats. He did not, that is why I deem his failure greater than that of Major.
Major at least had the excuse of all the bad baggage the Conservatives were carrying. And he carried the can for that one, not Hague.
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Russell Homestoel 86# You sound remarkably like a person whose name I have not seen here for a while. That name was Mikepo.
Are you any relation perhaps, you sound very much alike and seem to contact the same people he did. Is that not quite a remarkable fait accompli?
Pechance you are his twin brother or his other self ?
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88 Trudy_Victoria
Hello kiwilegs, old girl.
Quite honestly, none of the discussion here matters one jot.
The unions are going on strike.
The poor are complaining that they are much worse off.
The middle classes are complaining they are much worse off.
Brown is finished.
Labour is finished.
And at the rate the Country is going at the moment we are all finished.
Some government.
Only dyed in the wool Labour supporters say we are better off under Labour.
And the polls, even if you don't believe them, or don't want to believe them (C 49%, Lab 26%, Lib 14%) point too a change of government.
Brown, Milipede, Balls, Darling, Johnson - it doesn't matter who you choose, they are all fighting for their jobs. The only worry is how much more damage they can do in the next two years.
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#14 Gary Elsby,
Economics (like electoral predictions, especially in Stoke) is not your strong point is it. Bernacke has signaled the US interest-rates are to rise soon, as has Melvyn King.
Well, at least you provide some light humour....
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#89. As I read Trudy_Victoria's blog - here and elsewhere - I also started to suspect that I'd seen this style before. So, Kiwilegs it is!
And #89, occasionally it doesn't matter what you say. There's people who are so committed to their line of thinking, and so supportive of Gordon, they're worse than the front row of a Cliff Richard concert, although I'd hope they'd maintain a higher standard of dignity and keep everything on.
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Do we need a new chancellor, according to the pundits it takes 18 months to 2 years for new policy's to have any effect, so lets stick with the lame ducks as it is doubtful if they had a brain between them to come up with a positive and workable solutions.
Today it was announced that they are having the heads of the energy companies in about the possible 40% price rise in energy. Sounds good but sorry, totally froth. Businesses are there to make profit (no bad thing) and are in competition with each other and you only pass on increased cost if you have to...not rocket science . Lets not kid ourselves this government interference is about as good as a chocolate teapot.
What is in Government hands is what they take in Taxes VAT etc
They can reduce the cost of energy by cutting VAT.
They can reduce the cost of diesel by cutting Duty
They can cut the cost of Council Tax by cutting out layers and reducing numbers of councilors
They can reduce the numbers of MPs
They can reduce the hangers on for MPs
The list goes on and on so if this government wants to do something ... they can.....but won't
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To miserable Mikepko@89
Keep your bad dreams to yourself please and don't wake up in front of your computer to tell us all about it.
Take a look and see how other countries are coping and get a life.
Go to school and learn yourself out of the mindless misery that you have put yourself into! Try a course at Uni; anything, and learn something new!
Finally thank your God that we have a Labour Government and not some bunch of pretentious idiots who used to plunge our country from one recession into another, and lost all of our possessions.
It's a fine day. Go out and enjoy a bit of sunshine. Get a life.
Thanks and have a nice day Nick.
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91:
I doubt that this is kiwilegs in disguise although I take on board your point about the style and the sentiment. The spelling and grammar are just a little too good to be legs herself but I could be wrong!
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In my opinion I believe we can thank our lucky stars that The Public weren't fooled by initial impressions last Autumn or we might now be looking at another 4 years of stagnation and spin.
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Ref 88. Trudy_Victoria
Trudy your hypocrisy is astounding, do you recall your pouring of outrage when I accidentally called you Angela. And that was a typo. You didn’t even accept my humble apology.
Any how, feel free to come back on the facts and figures on any of the issues any time. Funny how facts and figures are always met with silence.
Left wing rhetoric and diatribe about the Tories of years gone by can just be countered with the words Wilson, Callahan, Foot, Scargill, Derek Hatton, Lib Lab Pact, Red Robbo etc.
Interested to know what you thought of www.britishpotatoes.co.uk. And the article on "can I freeze potatoes" or “Why does the potato selection vary in supermarket during the year”
Super value for 49 million a year. Perhaps every vegetable should have its own Quango and a chief exec on a PMs salary
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87. Trudy_Victoria
Trudy
When did you last hear a speach this good from the opposite side of the dispatch box.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6Cj1b-rp1E
This was worth 49 million
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#89 mikepko
Looks like your posting touched a raw nerve @93.
Wonder which part of ”NuLabour are going to be booted out in 2010” did Onlywayup get brassed of with.
By the way Mike - have a nice day!
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93 onlywayup
"To miserable Mikepko@89
Keep your bad dreams to yourself please and don't wake up in front of your computer to tell us all about it.
Take a look and see how other countries are coping and get a life.
Go to school and learn yourself out of the mindless misery that you have put yourself into! Try a course at Uni; anything, and learn something new!"
Onlywayup, I think I have made my point. Your post is of someone completely in denial.
Actually I'm not miserable at all but very happy working from home in beautiful Gloucestershire. What I am is realistic, and like it or not, Brown and Labour are finished.
Thanks for the advice. Currently doing an Open University degree in History to add to the qualifications I already have in Industrial Chemistry and Marketing, and read on all types of subjects including the environment, economics and politics.
Also like fiction so understand Brown and Labour completely.
Thanks again for your concern, but no matter what I do I just can't change the facts and the mood of the Country.
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#90 Fluffythoughts:
Wrong on all acounts, I'm pleased to say.
First, I'm not wrong and inflation is not the problem. Yes there are instances where inflation has gone up but inflation is also in freefall in a number of key areas.
Housing and food being two primary cases.
This leads me to your second mistake in believing that Mervyn King and Ben Bernanke have the collective guts to make things harder in the short term by raising interest rates.
No chance.
Alastair Darling is talking a tough battle ahead but he makes no references for a desire to raise rates.
Inflation is not the immediate problem as Gordon's trip to Saudi Arabia has proven, it is merely a tinkering with the supply chain is all that is needed.
Talk of a bludgeoning tool of interest rates is is a Neothanderal gimmick trick that is best left to the last Century.
Yes, I'm from Stoke and how proud they all are of that fact.
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The difference one year makes is this; he now has a track record of being the prime minister rather than wanting to be the prime minister. So far, so rubbish.
We've seen him in action and he's weak and uncaring. This is the complete antithesis of the image he treid to portay as chancellor - strong and compassionate.
He didn't care about the 10p tax fasco; he doesn't care about vehicle excise duty; he won't budge on VAT on fuel because it's his only source of income.
He has a tin ear for the poor and bows to pressure. Now he's gone for the nuclear option and 'let it be known' that he won't fight another election after the next one. This is presuming his party remains stubborn enough to leave him in place. he's trying anything to see if it can rally support as he stumbles around from one crisis to the next.
Ed Balls replace him? Are you joking?
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99# Mike
Considering your lifestyle supported by a great education, why do you say things such as "We are all finished".
You make it sound like we're living through the holocaust rather than living in a safe and prosperous country even if that prosperity is being dampened accross the globe for a while. Why not keep things in a bit mote proportion. Its so like reading a reactionary tabloid on here, everything is so awful and its all someone elses fault, it used to be single mothers and dol;e scroungers, then immigrants and asylum seekers now the government as proxy for the world crisis. Yes they've made mistakes and if all you want is a "change" then it looks like you'll get it but as I've askled before, what is it that you feel Dave and Co will deliver that so appeals to you
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98 Roll on 2010
Thanks.
It really does worry me about Labour supporters in a state of denial like above. And I'm not worried about the political parties but about the Country,
When people think that one party, currently Labour, is the answer to all our Country's problems, and there is absolutely no alternative, its like saying "I believe in free speech, but only if you say what I want you to say."
There can be no denying to any unbiased and balanced person that Labour are in the "deep and nasty" and are unlikely to get out of it.
And if I may be patriotic, I consider my Country to be more important than self-serving, lying politicians, of whatever party.
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Published: June 23 2008 10:05 | Last updated: June 23 2008 18:27
The eurozone on Monday slid closer to stagflation – low growth combined with rising inflation – as private sector output contracted this month for the first time in five years.
Weak economic data indicated soaring oil prices had hit growth in June, but not enough to stop the European Central Bank going ahead next week with a planned quarter percentage point rise to 4.25 per cent in its main interest rate.
Inflationary pressures mounting – especially in the service sector, where prices rose at the fastest rate for more than seven years. That will alarm the ECB, which saw the annual eurozone inflation rate leap to 3.7 per cent in May, the highest for 16 years, and is braced for a rise as high as 4 per cent in coming months.
“The ECB hiking [interest rates] in July would be consistent with a stagflationary feel,” said Michael Hume at Lehman Brothers.
As some are saying, Brown is guilty of what is happening in our economy at the moment, or maybe all over the WORLD.
What is the meaning of the word hypocricy? pretending to be what one is not, to feel what one does not feel, pretence of virtue.
Come back to reality!
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102 eatonrifle
I don't care who delivers what I want, but I am sure it won't be Brown or Labour.
I want a government that wants less control of my life and less intrusion into my affairs. A government that doesn't add more and more laws and rules every day that I don't understand to tie me down.
I want a government that looks after the interests of EVERYONE, rich or poor, young or old, and is fair to ALL.
I want a government that has a properly thought out strategy that is cost effective rather than one that jumps to the latest item in the news and just throws money at problems via quangos.
I want a government that thinks ahead and plans for the future, not one that says because I am in charge 'Boom and Bust' is a thing of the past so everything is rosy and will always be, and doesn't plan for the bad times.
And I want a Prime Minister who didn't spend 10 years stabbing the incumbent in the back to get the job only to find that he wasn't up to it and won't recognise the fact to the detriment of the Country as a whole.
Political parties come and go, Prime Ministers come and go even more frequently. Some are good, some are ok and some are downright useless. You don't know until you have several years of experiencing them (Brown is the exception, he is useless and not a leader of this Country in any shape or form).
So what do I expect of David Cameron. I don't know, but I HOPE he will be better than what we have at the moment.
All I do know is that when the Conservatives did so well in the local elections, when Boris Johnson won London, when the Conservatives trounced Labour in Crewe I progressively felt the weight and suffocation of Brown and Labour being lifted, and my God, it felt wonderful.
Are you happy now?
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#86 RussellHolmstoel:
Your figures for the number of NuLabour Quangos really surprised me!
Prior to the 1997 election I remember handing out NuLabour leaflets against the 60, or so, that the Tories had then.
I am really beggared beyond belief that NuLabour now has 800.
In the old days the gravy train was the nationalised industries, jobs for the boys.
Now it looks like todays gravy train are quangos!
You are right what an expensive waste!
In 1997 NuLabour were also banging on about fatcats. Looks like they solved that one - they joined them.
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89 Mikepko. I woke up this morning, its a nice day, so I thought what problems do I have with my country, well I thought none really, I have read from these Tory posts how the country is in dire straights and that Gordon Brown is the angel of death visited upon all of us.
So I thought to myself well lets analyse the situation, in my way of course, not in the way of all you Tory stratagists and wonderful economist and of course grammatically correct people.
No I thought lets see what a poor working class ignorant fool like myself thinks about my standard of living now and over the last ten years not the myriad of statistics that are often contradictory that we get from the Tory bloggers.
Six months or so ago labour were well ahead in the polls, then came the election that never was, forgive me if I'm wrong but I understood that the only person that can call an election was the PM that being so can anyone and I have asked this question before, anyone tell me when Gordon Brown said that there is going to be a general election, did he say I'm thinking of calling a general election. if he did then I certainly was unaware of it.
The media wanted a election. Wonderful news coverage for them, the Tories were not too keen on one, not until it became quite obvious that the PM had no intentions of holding one. then Dave and the backroom boys suddenly jumped to the fore, Brown bottled it they screamed raucously from the front benches which was then taken up by the media, a huge hullabuloo over something that was never said would happen, on these blogs Gordon is still being vilified for not having an election when the media requested it.
Moving on to Northern Rock, the bank was in real trouble, investors were queing up outside the branches, drawing their money out of what they thought was a failing bank and one could understand that, something had to be done.
Panic would set in and there would be a disastous run on all the banks. we do panic in this country as we saw only last week when less than a thousand petrol stations out of eight thousand ran out of fuel over a few petrol tank drivers being on strike for four days,
To get back to NR, the government stepped in to save NR with the full support of Dave Cameron, the government decided to throw it open to several finance companies to make offers on this bank, and to cut a long story short. They wanted to buy it for peanuts and GB was'nt going to have that, so after much deliberation they decided to temporally nationalise the bank, and get some one to take over the business until it got back on its feet. the Tories particularly turn around Dave, who since his first support had now had four turn arounds before coming up as usual with nothing.
now came the policy of lets frighten the people wildly encouraged by the media. This move is going to cost every householder one two or three, take your pick thousand pound a year,which of course is a load of nonsense, the point was a monetary disaster had been avoided, practically every bank in the country agreed. That was'nt good enough for Dave, supported by the media once again GB and AD were vilified.
The NR appear to be doing quite well now and the money spent by the government will not take too long to return.You dont see much of that on the media or how Cameron got it wrong again, the most disappointing thing that I have felt about the whole affair, is that I have never seen one word of thanks from one investor or one employee of that bank for saving their necks.
The referendumthe first point is that the constitutional treaty was proclaimed finished or as the Tories gleefully proclaimed "dead in the water" so that was that, no need for a referendum.
With the increase of 15 more countries into the EU something had to be done to make it managable so another treaty was drawn up the Lisbon treaty obviously with much of the original constitutional treaty in place, what else could be done, the same problems of enlargement were there as before, but the points that people objected to were removed or modified to make it more acceptable, so it was put before parliament for ratification.
Those that beat the drum for referendum bore me to tears, how many of those protesting have read either the Lisbon treaty or the constitutional treaty, including these moaners on these blogs,put your hand up if you have. Do any of you really believe that had there been a referendum that the ordinary guy/gal in the street would have sat down and read them.
If they had'nt how could they be expected to vote logically.
Out of all those that voted in Ireland apparently less than three percent had read either of them, they were stopping people in the street and asking why they had voted no, they had no answer, of course it had nothing to do with the Irish multi millionare putting up so many posters and banners that you could barely see were you were going.
I will mention the 10p tax but only in passing. It was a slly mistake there is no doubt about that and it should have been withdrawn immediatly, the 2.7 billion was also a mistake and I'm afraid was a knee jerk reaction, but on saying that Cameron had over a twelve month to object to it but he was actually in favour until he saw the band wagon passing.
Now we come to the fuel and food crisis. no matter how the tories try to twist it, its no fault of the government whatsoever, know ing that, the tories say we should have had money in the kitty for that, then we could have dropped the price of fuel.
How ridiculous how many time can you go back to the kitty,1 week 1month or maybe years, the tax on fuel is the same system of tax that we've had for donkeys years, the only significant change came when Labour dropped the Tory fuel escalator which has kept the price below what it would have been under the tories, the Tories dont like to mention that, we would be paying a hell of a lot more for fuel now had they have retained it, GB has declined to increase the Tax on fuel a number of times when he could have.
Finally GB has asked public sector workers to excercise pay restraint for a year and led by example with the request that parliament do the same.
I have left out the sleaze factor as I dont believe any party can claim any victory over that one but I am quite happy to compare notes if anyone desires.
As it happens I feel quite happy with this country one of the most powerful
economically and militarily countries in the world and I have been quite happy with the way Labour have run the country over the last ten years I look around me and see happy a prosperous looking faces ,nice homes nice cars and life is so much more pleasant in practically every way I have seen more progress in the last ten years than any other ten year period in my life and I am getting on a bit.
Despite what the tories think, our government is highly respected throughout the World and Iam proud to be british and a european.
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Is Nick Robinson on a go-slow?
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105#
Happier than you by the sounds of things!!
You must be great company.
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Is it true that if, and it is a very big if, labour win the next general election, whenever it may be, that Gordon Brown is saying that he will not serve a full term. How dare he suggest this, if it is true, please find out Nick and let us know.
Nobody in England has voted for this current Prime Minister. People tell me that it is the way we do things, well I would say that it is time for a change.
We must have a directly elected Prime Minister, and we must have the end of party politics. Everybody who stands must be an Independent, and there must be free votes Parliament. Two directly elected Houses, no different to that in America. The more I see how this country is being mis-governed the more the need for change.
Its not a European Constitution we need it is a new English, repeat, English Constitution.
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So many of these posts confirm the old adage - "you can fool some of the people all of the time"
Eastonrifle, Grandantidote, Trudy et al - all fall into the "all of the time" category. Such slavish devotion to a single party must signify an reasoning deficit of some order.
It would help this country massively if people were more focussed on criticism of policies without allowing the distorting lens of party allegiance to let all manner of failures pass.
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106. Roll_On_2010
Didn’t Gordon Brown in 1995, as shadow chancellor, call for a “bonfire of quangos”.
The research is in a report by the TaxPayers’ Alliance. It says these largely unseen and unaccountable bodies spend £101 billion a year, the equivalent of £1,662 for each person in Britain.
Over 700,000 people in the UK work within this layer of quasigovernment.
The governments own figures show a growth of 50% between 1996-07 and 2006-07.
Wow
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#107.
Gordon Brown has no legitimacy, that is why an election should have been held. Give me the name of anybody wo voted for him. Just one will do because nobody in England has voted for, or against Gordon Brown.
Tony Blair, remember him, said that he was going to serve for a full term. Now, he did, because he stood for election in his constituency, was voted in, then resigned his seat, so he served a full term.
The whole problem with Gordon Brown is that he has paid for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and I make no apology for saying that he should have known about the loans made to the labour party, remember them. Now, if he didn't know then surely he was not doing his job properly.
I want to know how the labour party is proposing to repay these loans, not in the future but now, where is the money meant to come from.
There are so many issues that few people know about, injunctions preventing former soldiers from speaking out but one. Also, is nobody else surprised that few soldiers, or their loved ones, actually complain in public any more. Could it be that if they speak out they will lose any compensation they are entitled to, they have to sign confidentiality contracts?
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107 grandantidote.
Have read your missive with interest. Notice you spell both british and european without capital letters. Wonder if that says anything?
Regarding "the country being in dire straights", this may not be the reality but is certainly the perception. You seem to take everything literally as black or white. Is there any grey in your world?
Most people I know think the Country is going downhill. And I know people of most types from poor to well off, but certainly no-one in the upper classes or new-rich such as City types.
Most people I know are feeling the squeeze on heating, food and travel.
Most people I know feel that the government is weak and hence the possibility of strikes by Unison and other.
Many of my age and older are increasingly talking of the "Winter of Discontent" and the weakness of the government then.
And it is this perception, even if not as bad as the media make out, that makes people like myself want a change of government. We've tried New Labour for 11 years and we've got to a stage where quite honestly we think it is taking advantage of us and our good nature.
As I said in my post 103, I don't care who runs this Country as long as they do it correctly. My best bet is that the Conservatives will make a better fist of it than Brown.
The real problem is that we have politicians at all, where ideology comes before what is in reality the best way to proceed.
No-one has all the answers and it is really stupid to think that one political party has.
No successful company would run their business like this government. They generally have a medium and long term strategy, they know that they must keep their customers satisfied or go under, they keep a lid on costs, have financial experts in key positions, and they have contingencies for major problems.
What we have is a government made up of people with little or no experience of anything outside politics, with no skills in planning, finance and project implementation, who appoint "experts" who agree with their view of the way ahead and ignore or rubbish opposite views unless they can steal them as their own.
And instead designing a strategy to fit the circumstances, their strategy, such as it is, is designed to fit the ideology.
No grandantidote, we are almost all tired of Labour, the lies, the waste, the spin and the personal ambition at the expense of the Country.
Be gone Brown, and soon.
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89 wrote:
' I woke up this morning, its a nice day, so I thought what problems do I have with my country, well I thought none really,
Even the most die hard GB supporters would probably take issue with you on this.
'can anyone and I have asked this question before, anyone tell me when Gordon Brown said that there is going to be a general election, did he say I'm thinking of calling a general election. if he did then I certainly was unaware of it.'
Even members of his own cabinet as The TV programe Dispatches pointed out knew that he was considering a snap Election but he was being given mixed advice by his advisors and eventually bottled it because he didn't want to risk being labelled as the shortest term Labour P.M. in history.
I support our membership of The EU so we'll let that one rest and my sister had a lot of money invested in NR so I'll let this one go as well. The Government had little option with this although the dithering before coming to a decision didn't help.
On fuel how is it that we pay 4 times the amount for fuel that the Australians for example do? This situation in itself is bound to stoke up inflation. All our goods have to be transported. It is little wonder that food prices for example have virtually doubled in a year.
Your positive slant on The UK and its economy and lifestyle is commendable but my own feeling is that the glass is beginnning to crack. Let's see where we are in 2 years time. If we hadn't made reasonable progress in our S of L over the last 10 years we would all have been very surprised considering the amount of our money that was poured into the infrastructure. Was it money well spent however? I think that's probably the million dollar question. If as you say everything is set to be going along swimmingly I'll be pleasantly surprised and come back on here in a couple of years to praise your uplifting, optimistic attitude.
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Ref 107. Grandantidote.
I warned you and Trudy didnt I.
Time to return fire.
Wilson
Callahan
Foot
Scargill
Derek Hatton
Lib Lab Pact
Red Robbo
Red Ken
Nationalisation
Short acurate bursts are so much more effective than carpet bombing.
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#114
Three cheers for the common sense of your politics. It's not about class warfare, it's not about party politics; it's about the complete and utter inability of NewLabour to come up with anything other than -ve policies.
They don't like grammar schools the don't likem hunting, they don't like non doms, they don't like car drivers.
It's all so cheerless. Give me back my optimistic, talented country please and put your socialist dogma back in the waste paper basket where it belongs.
Gordon Brown is about as useful as an old Trabant. There was a ten year waiting list for them but they were very disapppointing when they arrived and fell apart immediately.
Sound familiar?
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107. grandantidote.
Did you know
While some arms of the government warn the public not to eat too many fatty foods such as chips, the Potato Councils millions are marketing a national chip week.
I quote: The 16th annual National Chip Week enjoyed phenomenal success, with activity and celebrations taking place up and down the country. Organised by the British Potato Council (BPC) the week generated a wealth of national press and television coverage and many positive messages about chips.
Makes me proud too.
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#112 RussellHolmstoel:
Although quangos aren’t bad enough what really beggars belief is the duplication in some areas.
For example, the Carbon Trust gets £85 million to advise businesses and government bodies on becoming low carbon, while £22 million was handed over to Envirowise to do almost the same thing.
The Energy Saving Trust also advises home owners on reducing their carbon footprint. With 142 staff, it costs £43.2 million.
Over 700,000 bureaucrats are now employed by quangos. Begs the question, Are NuLabour using these bodies to massage the unemployment figures?
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117 RobinJD
I perpetually being called Conservative but as I think I have made plain that is far from the truth.
What I want is Country where we are free to go about our lives as we wish, with the minimum of state intervention. And where we must have it, such as the NHS and police, I want OUR taxes to be spent wisely.
I just have 56 years of experience of wasting money and crackpot politically correct ideas from Labour. That is why I vote Conservative, because they are a bit more sensible - even though they have their moments!!!
As you say, I want a Country full of colour and what we have is just shades of grey.
I want a country where we can express ourselves and our thoughts, and we have one where I have to tell my Irish jokes to a carefully selected audience for fear of prosecution as a racist.
And I want one where true talent gets to the fore in the education system, and we have one where exams are so dumbed-down that everyone passes and you can't tell the excellent from the average. That does nobody any good because when they get into the real world they become very disappointed by failure, something that they haven't been trained to expect.
Yes I want. And what I want is probably wanted by the majority of the population.
And I really don't believe that Labour can give me what I want. So Conservative it is.
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119 Roll on
YES, plus all of the non-productive jobs in government and local government.
No wonder local government pensions are under such pressure and an increasing percentage of our Community Charge is taken up by them.
More staff, means more employer contributions and more pensions to pay out in the future. And that means more money into pensions and less to spend on services.
The upside is that the Unemployment figures look good. Well whoopee!!
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When Gordon ingratiated himself into No. 10., he promised that his government would be different.
If anyone can tell me how Gordon's government has been any different to that of Mr Bliar's, please tell me.
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116 Russell Holmstead, so you think that your list kills any argument well briefly as I have to go out,
Thatcher
Hague
Major
Duncan Smith
howard
cameron
?
and they were all leaders, I hav'nt slipped in a few characters like you namely
livingstone
Scargill
red robbo
Or nationalisation that alone kills your agument look what they did to the nationalised industries, sodl them for a song. Labour had to rescue them when they got back in power.
go back to you statistics you have the idea that your good with them but your useless at judging people.
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114 mikpko Yes a slip of the finger one might say but the rest of the text tells you were my allegiance lies, its the grammer you know.
I look foreward to the answers to the questions that I posed but dont really expect to much of substance just the usual rheteric. Have a nice day mike.
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#112 RussellHolmstoel + #121 mikepko
Looking at the positive side our neighbours north of the border have started to scrap and merge 26% of their quangos.
Scotland only has 199 quangos but they plan the scrapping and merger of 55 of them over the lifetime of the parliament with a efficiency saving of £25 million.
First Minister Alex Salmond said;
If private sector productivity rises by just 1% as a result of cutting red tape, it will boost the Scottish economy by around £800 million.
I also believe Wales are also in the progress of scrapping their quangos!
Just imagine the scope in England.
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There’s a very dirty, slightly shameful truth lying underneath Brown’s unpopularity. It’s always coming up when commentators anatomise his public persona and sometimes even when opponents seek to criticize his character, but no one has given it the explanatory centrality it merits. Gordon Brown is boring. And he is boring at a time when it is a very unfashionable failing to have.
We can accept people who swindle us, coerce us, humiliate us; people who set out to best us and achieve it; people who neglect us, who outperform us, who forget our names. Rogues, hedonists, flaneurs, roués, egotists we can forgive: those who transgress or get the better of us, those who wrong us, but who do it with a little style or some forgivable ambition, even some understandable selfishness. But we will not forgive those who bore us. People who steal our time, numb our pleasure centres, turn our fast-coursing blood to gravy – all of this generally without understanding or feeling the warranted contrition – belong in the most ingeniously appointed circle of hell. We will never forgive them.
People in the media suffer most from boring politicians and are the least willing to suffer them. They are the ones who have to spend their time thinking about the offending politician and writing about them. After Blair they were desperate for something new and interesting – for a while they thought they had it (Brown was the non-partisan ‘father of the nation’) – but then he clumsily revealed that he was a partisan politician through the election-that-never-was. That destroyed the novel line the media was taking: it turned out that Brown was just like Blair, but more boring. Much of the strength of the media response to Brown’s government is conscious or unconscious media resentment.
To read more, search for my blog, Just who the hell are we?, at wordpress.com.
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#122 Asks:
'What have the Romans ever done for us?!!'
Tax you more, even if you haven't got it?
Lock you up for longer, even if you ain't done it? (because you didn't look innocent enough for 28 of those days).
Turn your lghts out?
Park your car up?
Gave you another Alastair?
Bought you a bank? ( A surprise present).
An Economy to be proud of?
That's what today's Romans are doing for us! Unlike those of old who only built roads with a 'one track mind'.
ps. Is there any chance you can disguise my name a little?
G***y
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@126. Actually, I think people expect their leaders to have charisma, persona and panache. All things that Blair had and even though he was an absolute disaster he got away with it largely because of those traits.
Brown could be the greatest invention since spectacles but without those three traits he may as well forgoet it.
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Gary Elsby said
"inflation is also in freefall in a number of key areas.
Housing and food being two primary cases"
Sorry Gary? Food inflation is in freefall? Where do you shop, because I think we'd all like to go there.
As for Grandantidote. Well. Taking your 'points' in order. GB was considering an election BECAUSE he was ahead in the polls. He let it be known he was thinking about it to check public reaction. He popped over to Iraq to make troop announcements during the Tory conference to gain some headlines. He rearranged parliamentary business to make room for an election. At any point in about 4 weeks of speculation either he or any colleague could have said "There will be no election" but they didn't. Then the Tories got a poll boost from one speech about Inheritance Tax and he decided against it. He has even admitted himself that he could (and should) have ended the speculation much sooner than he did.
Northern Rock - yes there were queues outside, but by then GB had already wasted two opportunities to prevent them. First, he refused to accept the bank being bought by Lloyds and second they waited until after the panic to tell people their savings were safe. They then thrashed around for 6 more months looking for a solution, all the while using taxpayer money to prop up the bank, before finally nationalising it. As to whether NR are doing quite well - they are paying some millions back to government when they need to pay billions. They cannot follow their business plan of gaining money by selling their mortgage book, because no bank wants mortgages at the moment, and they are currently (like other banks) chucking people out of their homes and repossessing them.
EU - so you object to the No vote pouring money into the campaign, but not the businesses and political parties of the yes vote, who poured a lot of money, and airtime in as well? You complain about the number of people who have read the treaty, but how many politicians do you think have read it - even the Irish leader admits he hasn't. Its language is deliberately vague. Its content is admitted to be about 95% the same as the constitution, which is why people justifiably think a promise to hold a referendum should be kept. Calling it a treaty means nothing. If it looks like a duck, and smells like a duck, then it's a duck.
10p tax - you are wise to try and gloss over this. It is a problem because GB denied for months there would be any losers, then claimed it was only a few, then said it might be a million, then accepted 5.3 million but said there was no money to do anything about it, then denied a deal would be struck, then came up with his bizarre plan to give 2.7 billion away to compensate people who hadn't even lost out in the first place, whilst still leaving the worst off poorer. It would actually have taken around 700 million - quite a bit less than 2.7 billion - to give targeted compensation to those people affected.
Petrol - GB has declined several opportunities to raise the fuel duty, true, but because each time it would have been political suicide to go through with it, not because he objects to the rise. As to reducing the take, yes he could. Current fuel prices mean the government are taking way more than they expected from fuel. If they didn't need the money to plug their gaping financial holes they could then reduce duty to the point where they were only taking what they expected, meaning fuel would be cheaper, and anything transported to the shops (say food) would be cheaper.
As to pay, of course GB has told his ministers not to take their pay rise this time. It would look pretty stupid for them to take a big pay rise when they are telling everyone else they have to stick to 2% wouldn't it?
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Ref grandantidote
You reinforce my point, we can all pick holes in historical rhetoric about either side that row could go on for ever. Big mistakes on both sides.
But if your going to bang on about the benefits of nationalisation then I cant take you seriously. They were not real jobs and the waste was exceptional.
Just out of interest do you have any recollection of what the losses were and what those industires cost to subsidise. Remind me which ones labour saved.
Sorry about al those statistics, dam annoying all those interfering facts. hey
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Grandantidote - exactly which previously nationalised industries has Labour saved then?
Please don't say rail (although I think it's your only option) because you'll just get a lot of stuff about Byers in return, and I really don't think the railways are any better anyway.
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They believe that it's no longer enough to declare that the man who steered the economy away from the rocks for 10 years will be able to do so again
err when precisely did he do this then.....?#
"He built a house of glass with foundations of sand the costs of which will haunt us long into the future"
Kind regards
Baron Von Ripwinkle De Parkbench
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It's not a new Chancellor, PM or even government we need.
This country needs to develop a new political form of representation which the people actually believe in.
Forcing democracy down people's throats is not better than forcing Communism, Facism or Liberalism.
Let the people decide how the country should be run. We are all quite intelligent you know, in fact the average person has more common sense and is more practical than the average MP.
This is of course helped by the fact that average people live in the real world, and haven't spent the majority of their lives lying about everything to the point they can no longer recognise the truth.
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Greetings all, I have been reading these blogs with fascination for some time now, they provide some real good insight to different points of view.
However the one thing I really hate is the fact just like the main political parties, a certain group of individuals on here keep refering to the past. Although I agree that the past is one of the most important things people should know about as it helps us learn and try and avoid bad things in the future (also I think its a great to read about and review). Im really not interested in what political parties have done in the past I want to know what they promise to do in the present/future. So if people on here think that people only act on their past actions (right in some cases) then we should scrap prison rehabilitation and other incentives. Im sure the people in power can see that if something lost them an election in the past then its generally not the cleverest thing to do again. (however there are always people blinded by their own views of reality)
I have never lived through the tough times that many of you have under both Conservative or Labour (Yes both have been equally as bad and good) Granted different people may have suffered under thatcher than those that suffered under labour.
Now I love politics love reading about it and it really gets me wound up at times, as well as excited. Which at my age I sometimes think is outside the norm, but hey who cares. However there is one comment I hate with a passion, and that is the comment on the lines of "Ive always Voted for [Insert Party] and I always will". This shows what a narrowminded person somebody is, as all parties change and the party I currently favour may completly change by the next election depending on their action. However it is also entirely possible that those still supporting Labour still believe in what they are doing in government, and likewise the Conservatives.
In reference to the Blog (sorry needed to have a "small" rant first) I personally think Gordon Brown has some very good ideas however on the whole I disagree with him. However that could all be down to how he sold the ideas in the first place (he really makes me sleepy). Also he is suffering from Labour being in power for 11 years. Although we don't know what the tories will be like when/if (it could still change) they get in, we do know what Labour will be like if they carry on how they are. To me its a no brainer, yet if they completly turn around and do some real good I will vote for them, however I cant see it happening. Although I never saw an MP stepping down over principles and that happened.
Sorry for the essay, its been building up for a while
Ta
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Dear Nick
The way events are moving Iran will be the next major politcal issue with Zimbabwe, this is building up to a strike by Israel, and the economic woes are going to be severe.
May be that you with your contacts can have a political guess at events in the next four months because things do not look that rosey, especially with Bush still in power.
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Nu (Improved) Labour, Useless Tories or Drip-Drip Labourals.
People who can vote for themselves massive pay rises, who go on holidays more than work, sleep off alcohol induced slumber instead of demanding democracy are not people but trough eating, jokes.
You are corrupt, incompetent and self-serving whether clucking fist or toff.
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Ref 129. Grawth
Good post
But you forgot to mention that one of the first things Labour did after nationalisation of N Rock was to pay the top 175 people a bonus up to an equivalent of double their salary.
So far, 173 staff out of a workforce of 6,000 have been awarded bonuses.
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128 Red Lenin
In today's politics you need charisma, personality and be seen to be a real leader. Sadly, its because of TV, personality and the shallowness of voters.
In the past being good at what you did and even being boring wasn't a hindrance. Nobody said Stanley Baldwin, Neville Chamberlain or Clement Attlee were exciting. Nobody got to see or hear them, or hardly ever.
Winston Churchill on the other hand was always exciting and a leader, particularly when he took over in 1940. Then doing something very sensible, choosing a team from all parties including Clement Attlee, the unions (Bevin) and business leaders (Lords Walton and Beaverbrook), he led from the front. They were not people to be bullied, and worked with a common purpose. He inspired people at the time of greatest peril with fantastic speeches, told the population how bad things were, and then told them them we would win. We did. That was real leadership.
Compare that with Brown and Darling who choose "yes men" for their teams, bore us to death with the same old sound bites, and won't even tell the truth about dropping standards of living when we know it is true. If only they were honest, people would have more respect for them.
The population will always prefer a person with charisma, personality leadership skills. Blair? Particularly when things aren't going so well.
And that is one of the main reasons why Brown is on the way out. Right man, possibly, just 50 years too late.
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I feel sorry for Darling. GB takes credit for "prudence" in economic management - easy when the economy is growing - and now Darling takes the rap for later stage GB decisions.
Since growth slowed Gordon had to hide investment by using more and more PFI rather than admit to breaking his own 40% rule, but managed to nip next door before the manure hit the fan. Now it's becoming apparent that our inflationary public spending wasn't as prudent as we supposed. We start to enter a recession and need lower interest rates, just as inflation increases and we need higher rates. Feels a lot like the seventies, last time labour managed to spend the economy into trouble. My only hope is that they won't try to curb the coming recession by pumping even more money into public services, but that is slim hope. GB has shown himself to be an economic incompetent and Darling won't have the clout to overrule him.
So when labour lose, as they will, Darling will get a big dose of the blame. That's politics I suppose.
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129Grawth Your first answer is not an answer to the question I posed, "can anyone tell me when Gordon Brown said that there will be an election" or did he say "that there may be an election"? He said neither I heard him on the Andrew Marr show when asked by AM whether there is going to be an election and each time his reply was I have got a job to do and I'm going to do it. I am afraid that you fell into the media trap.
Northern rock the offer from Lloyds was never substantiated, It was impossible to reassure the worker that there jobs were safe because they were'nt the government were trying to make them safe but until domething substantive was found then that assurance could'nt be given.
The government did'nt thrash around for six months they tried to negotiate deals with different groups to try to secure a future for NR. According to most reports Ive read or observed NR are doing quite well in spite of the economic problems. The tax payers money as some like to use as a emotional tool, saved thousands of jobs in this country and saved a economical disaster. All money thats spent is taxpayers money the government have'nt got a money tree. the money raised from the taxpayer is placed in the hands of the chancellor and he decides what it is used for including the political parties , so all this emotional guff is ridiculous.
10p tax Ive given you my opinion and it varies very little from yours. No sign of a gloss over just plain fact.
Petrol so GB does'nt increase the tax on fuel thats wrong, he was afraid according to you he's not afraid to take much bolder steps than that to take tax payers money. now come on you can't have it both ways.
you might be right about what he can do to reduce the price of fuel but its not a quick fix situation and the tories have'nt come up with any ideas, so their as stumped as everyone else through out the world at this time.
The EU, there never was a lot of money poured into the yes vote because it was never needed, you make the point for me I have never heard anyone say that they have read either treaty, I think Bill Cash MP said that he had read it and I could believe him but my point is the same as yours in some respects but not in others, it would not have been correct to hold a referendum on either of the treaties because about 95% of the voters would not have had a clue what they were voting for, their only source of guidance would have been from the anti European Tory controlled media. Apart from that this country is run by government not by referendum, which ever party is in power.
one part of your argument on this subject defies the other.
Pay, So GB leads by example regarding pay but nothing sensible about that according to you, he had to do it. if he had to do it then why has he done all the other things of which you disapprove.
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I can't help thinking that Labour's spin machine really does work.
grandantidote is living proof that it does!!!
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grandantidote wrote:
'129Grawth Your first answer is not an answer to the question I posed, "can anyone tell me when Gordon Brown said that there will be an election" or did he say "that there may be an election"? He said neither I heard him on the Andrew Marr show when asked by AM whether there is going to be an election and each time his reply was I have got a job to do and I'm going to do it. I am afraid that you fell into the media trap.'
Of course he didn't actually say either. He was however considering it. Hazel Blears amongst others urged him to hold off while a number of others believed it was worth the gamble considering the current opinion polls. Not being a gambling man he chose to hold off, a decision which has since proved to be a fatal mistake of judgement on his part.
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142 waldorf29,so your agreeing with me that the only man/woman in the country that can call a general election is the PM. and your agreeing with me that he did'nt ever say that he was. everything else you say on the subject is conjecture.
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Ref grandantidote 123
Ok starter for 10 (open to) all seeing as hes not answering specifics
What nationalised industry did labour save
How much did they cost to subsidise in the first place.
How much is a massive, loss making, over staffed, heavily unionised, industry worth.
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141 mikepko, I'm not the one thats allways claiming that their going to sit and read the papers, there is so much spin in news papers that you have a job to hold on to them. You should no better than to claim that because a person has a different opinion to you they have to be influenced by spin, most of my comments on these blogs are from life experience not from the Times or the Daily Mail as many are on here.
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145 GA
The way things are going I won't be able to afford the papers at the weekend. And after you told me off for going for a coffee, well I am lost for words.
It must be a sign of a failing economy.
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143:
I don't see your point. You are saying it's all conjecture whether or not he was wanting to call an early General Election. I'm not saying I blame him for that. If he had got away with it good luck to him but he didn't so why keep on about it. We choose to follow one line on his intentions, you choose to follow another. Let's just decide to differ on this one. The programme 'Dispatches' does not follow your line of reasoning but you would probably call them liars.
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144 Russell Holmstead. I did not say saved I said rescued, I should'nt mention railtrak but I have, many of the railway companies were in dire trouble and in fear of going bankrupt but the government stepped in to help them, it would have been impossible to renationalise them the money was'nt there to pay for it, but there are not many who would say that denationalising the railways was a good move,
The mining and steel industries. lets take mining you say how much did it cost to subsidise the miners, not a lot thats for sure and certainly not as much in finance and destruction of a way of life for these people it cost a hell of a lot more to keep them unemployed than it did to keep them in work, it was'nt that they did'nt want the coal they started to import subsidised coal for our needs from Poland.
The steel industry lasted for a while under private ownership but then it started to fail rapidly, who stepped in to rescue the steelworkers, Labour, they gave the men a cash sum and set up employment offices in the steel works to find work for the men and they were quite successful as well.
now that the owners have sold the assets and drastically reduced the work force they are not doing to bad but mark my words it will soon be gone.
The gas electric BT Welsh water North sea oil were all thriving businesses when they were sold for a song but they did'nt need help and they certainly did'nt need to be
denationalised.
You ask how much is a massive, loss making, over staffed,heavily unionised industry worth. well not a lot to a Tory. I guess it meant a lot to the thousands of men employed in these industries and to their wives and children of these men to see whole communities wiped out virtualy overnight, and in addittion to that all the ancilary workers that supplied these industries. I guess you dont put much value on that but I imagine the people affected thought the price was to high, you know nothing of the working man or you would never of asked these questions.
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147 waldorf 29 you couldnt be more wrong, I might disagree with some one as I do you but unless I knew for certain the other person was wrong I would then explain to them why I thought they were wrong but I would never call them a liar.
Read 142 from Hazel Blears to the end of your post that is conjecture.except for your last two sentences.
i'm not keeping on about it, you are I am merely saying that that is what I have observed, what I actually saw with my own eyes, I think that Mikepko or was colinfeb that will tell you that we exchanged some long posts regarding not believing every thing you read or see on the media for that matter unless it comes from the horses mouth as they say.
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145 mikepko. I've sussed you out for a fat cat Mike, I wont mention your better half but between you your doing alright, I did'nt tell you off for going for coffee, but knowing how frugally you say you live. I just thought you were being a bit reckless going out for coffee, you should by the Beano or the Dandy they wont corrupt your mind like the Times. good night old fellow.
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On one of the programme in the 'Dispatches' series Hazel Blears clearly said from that she advised GB not to go to the country because it wasn't prudent to do so. It was not conjecture but a statement of fact unless you are accusing her of being a fibber. It was in fact straight from the horse's mouth and not a figment of what you might refer to as The Tory Press's imagination.
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Ref 148. grandantidote
Sorry misunderstood that rescue saved thing. I accept they rescued the staff and created a whole load of new jobs. 700,000 in Quangos alone. 50 of them at the Potato council.
Ok we will stay off the railway. But In their last year coal made a loss of around 500 million. Add the subsidy from electric companies who had to buy British coal at inflated prices to keep unprofitable mines open and you get around 750 million per year. Not sure what that is in todays money.
Im not going to look up profits for the other firms but find its hard to believe they were hived off if they made a profit. Do you have figures to back this up. Would be interesting. But bare in mind most were state owned monopolies so could charge what they liked. British Steel certainly made huge losses as did British Leyland.
Interesting that the ones that had to compete in an open market lost millions.
I do accept that the loss of mining created huge damage to the communities and to families. It was handled very badly. A huge Tory error.
Thatcher and the country at the time took the view that a drastic situation (with the unions) needed a very sour medicine.
Sadly I suspect that the country is in search of some more medicine now.
Working man bit, well you don’t know how wrong you are there but that’s another story.
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150 GA
Fat cat. You're joking. Comfortable in a small two bed cottage.
We have simple pleasures like walking, real food from local farmer's markets and farm shops (supporting the local economy and not Tesco) and a coffee at out local cafe to meet friends at lunchtime. I do all the cooking. No caviar here. Simple food - casseroles, pasta, roasts.
As for my reading, its only the Western Daily Press and Financial Times on Saturdays. The latter because the range and quality of the articles is be best around. The former for local news and the excellent magazine. The Times is getting rather like the Mail. Not the Grauniad.
Anyway, what is wrong with being careful to ensure you have a decent pension and can enjoy a few treats. Gordon would certainly approve the former and be aghast at the latter.
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As far as The Tory Press go and believing what you read ( I have seen the phrase 'Torygraph' on here) I happen to disagree with their stance on Europe amongst other things. I am also at odds with The Tory Party's resistance to the 42 day extension. I don't believe everything I read and find the intimation that I and many of my fellow bloggers do rather patronising and even somewhat offensive. We all have minds of our own and are entitled to our opinions without being subjected to stupid slurs like this. I don't have the vote because although I have been living here for 54 years I still have a Dutch passport but if I did I know I wouldn't trust Gordon Brown as far as I could throw him merely because of his past record. As far as DC is concerned the jury will be out until he is given the chance to show his true colours but I am not prepared to condemn him on the evidence presented by his detractors so far.
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There is now an opportunity for this disgraceful government to extricate itself from the shameful Iraq escapade.
All along it has been said that we, the government, will listen to the forces on the ground. Well surely this is now the time for Brown to listen to Sir Jock Stirrup, the actual Head of the Armed Forces, and to announce that the job has been done. We can do no more.
We can then complete our retreat and send the soldiers to Afghanistan where they will fight and die in another war which has absolutely nothing to do with Britain.
Our soldiers signed up to fight, and possibly die, for their Queen and Country, after all it is an oath of allegiance to the Queen which they take, not to American Presidents, nor the UN, nor NATO.
How many soldiers have died in Iraq since the turn of the year. How many died each week whilst Blair was PM. Every week he came to Parliament regretting the loss of yet another life. Now with Brown what has changed. That's right we now talk and act with the very people who killed our soldiers. It was always going to be the case that we would have to leave, well thanks to Sir Jock now is the time.
At least one returning soldier has spoken at Stop the War meetings and he has now been silenced by MoD Court injunctions, let's see how they can silence Sir Jock Stirrup. Will they ignore him as well?
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Am I angry? You bet I am. Go to the BBC site which I show below which shows the deaths in Afghanistan:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5121552.stm
this sad site lists every death of British soldiers in Afghanistan since 2001.
What is noticeable is that between 9th April 2002 and 28th January 2004 there were threee, yes three deaths in Afghanistan.
The causes as listed were one accident, an unlawful killing by a British soldier, and the the third was the suicide of the soldier who carried out the unlawful killing.
Now what has gone so terribly wrong that we are now learning of an ever more disastrous situation with regard to our soldiers. No wonder Sir Jock Stirrup says that we 'are stretched beyond the capabilities we have'.
We must announce our withdrawal from Iraq, our soldiers signed up to fight for Queen and Country not an American President who will soon leave office.
The reason why Afghanistan has failed is that the military, under orders from the government, transferred must needed resources to Iraq. For what?
So, when Gordon Brown goes before parliament yet again he will have to be sombre and say how terrible and sad it all is but they are dying for a noble cause and it must not be in vain etc...and then what exactly. This is a disaster and must not be tolerated, what is the point other than for our soldiers to die, for what?
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Grandantidote,
so you will only believe something if you actually hear the person say it, not if it is merely reported? Well, leaving aside previous blogs where I think you may have broken that rule (and we'll keep a watch out for future conduct), here are a few sentences for you to ponder.
"No more boom and bust"
"There are no losers from the 10p tax change"
"There is no money available to compensate the 10p tax change losers"
"politics is less about ideals and more about manoeuvres" (that's a good one)
So, did you believe these too?
By the way, about the election - as I said above, all Gordon had to do to stop the speculation was say "There will not be an election", or get one of his chums to say it. He didn't do that. Sometimes, what people don't say is as important as what they do say.
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151 waldorf,my agument is not what Hazel Blears say's or indeed any one of the cabinet, you say you heard her say that she advised GB not to hold an election, that is in no way conclusive proof that he intended to hold an election, I believe you that she in all probability did say that. truth be told if thats the case are we to assume that GB did'nt hold an election on her say so. there is not one grain of truth in the fact that he said he would hold an election.
154 Forgive me if I'm wrong but I dont recall intmating that you or our fellow bloggers do get all their information from newspapers, I am sure you dont but a lot of items on these posts are almost direct quotes from the Tory press or so I am told by friends stupid enough to read their constant trail of garbage.
I think waldorf you may have read more into what I wrote than I actually did write.
Apart from that it would seem that we agree on pretty well every thing you say except what you say about GB.
Are you sure that your not, damn I can't bring to mind his psuodonym but he recently took a trip to New York for his birthday, his mother was an imigrant from the war years, he was Dutch and he had lived in this country for 54/56 years and he was not eligble to vote, if your not him it seems a very strange coincidence.
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153 mikepko, Qh! come on Mike there are plenty of fat cats living in nice little two bedroomed cottages in Gloucestshire those cottages are as rare as hens teeth and at a premium but good luck to you lad. You sound as if you have a idylic life with your casseroles and good food.
I must say that your choice of reading material reflects better on the image that comes across on these blogs you told me that you read the Times you did'nt say Financial Times which is a different kettle of fish. As for your frugal life style I have no criticism of that only from a fun point of view.
we also live quite frugally but unfortunately owing to mobility we are not able to attend farmers markets.
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Ever heard the phrase 'splitting hairs'?
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If all the fat cats in the country decided to emigrate the place would very quickly screech to an economic halt. The removal of the prospect of reaching out for the good things in life and being able to achieve one's dreams would be a sad thing indeed. There are already far too many people sitting on their backsides gorging on state handouts and avoiding the stress of work because it pays better. If you watch Eastenders they're called Keith.
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157 grawth. I perhaps misled you unintentially regarding not believing things that I dont see or hear for myself, I have been told that theres a place called Australia in the southern ocean , I believe thats true but I have never seen it. it would be foolish and perhaps I am, to say that I dont believe anything I read but I read it with scepticism, otherwise I would have very little knowledge of anything, some bloggers would say that I dont.
My point is that I do not believe everything I read, as I have said before, every book that has been written by an author and not a group is only his opinion or perception of any given subject or event its not gospel not that I believe that either.
My experience of the press has been that as we have heard many times on these blogs never let the truth get in the way of a good story, and thats from first hand experience.
I make no denial of the sentences that you quote, that would be foolish, I heard them myself but you know, that I could go back over the last ten years and relate a few from the last four leaders of the conservative party that were said, that would be quite equally as stupid, in fact they were considered unfit to become prime minister by their own party.
Your quite right GB could have stopped the speculation about the election, but I repeat that he said on the Andrew Marr show when asked if he was going to hold an election three times he replied " I am here to do a job and thats what I am going to do. and I saw and heard that myself so I believe that. If that was'nt saying I am not going to hold an election I dont know what is.
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161 waldorf 29, you must number the posts your refering to if you wish for a answer.
Splitting hairs is a classic way of losing an argument but not prepared to say so.
I never put you down for an eastenders fan Waldorf is that were you get all your infomation from. its not the real World Waldorf, its fiction, do try to seperate the two, try watching the news channel or parliament, there's much better story lines there particularly from the Tory front bench.
The fat cats remarks were just a little joke between Mikepko and myself, they call it humour.
You didnt answer about the name change.
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159 GA
Talking of fat cats, todays report on MPs' pay and allowances seems to put them well up there. Are Brown and darling worth all that money. They certainly wouldn't earn the salary they earn as MPs' in industry, such is their ability and management acumen.
On my reading, can I suggest you go way back into my posts where you will find that I said Financial Times and not the times. I am not and never have been a Times reader.
Pity you can't get to a farmers' market. Its good to get really fresh food from local businesses. They have had to struggle so hard against all of the legislation this government has put in place.
Are you going to put the bunting out and have a street party for Gordon's first anniversary?
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'Splitting hairs is a classic way of losing an argument but not prepared to say so.'
Exactly right!
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163:
If you want to do patronising I could oblige but I think the gist of it would be purposely lost in translation and I can't be bothered. I'll let others make up their own minds.
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166 waldorf , I am sorry that you think I'm patronising you, I was just having a little fun with you, but from the three years I lived in the Netherlands i did observe that there was'nt too much sense of humour there, so perhaps thats your problem. you still have'nt answered the question, are you back under another name. You dont have to answer of course. So like you say, I'll let others make up there own minds.
Dont take it all so seriously its mostly a bunch of old fogies airing their differences. nothing said here will change a thing in the real world.
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164 mikepko well mike I wont go back through your posts, I believe you, I could be mistaken of course, I am quite happy to apologize if I'm wrong not like some on here.
regarding pay and allowances the same could be said about Cameron and Gideon, at least you see GB and AD doing different things,you dont see a lot of Cameron and Gideon seems to have gone into hiding.
Yes it would be nice to get out to a farmers market we will have to try to make the effort.
No buntings I'm saving all that for the next general election a sense of revenge if Cameron and his motely crew get in we will see the mayhem and the rapid change of mind of those that deserted Labour and how they will regret it.A feeling of justice and joy if Labour win.
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165 waldorf29 so you give in then.
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167:
I also lived in Holland for a time and found my hosts to be in many ways charming, witty and very humorous. Perhaps they didn't appreciate your particular brand of humour. After all being talked down to isn't everyone's cup of tea although you seem to think it's a bundle of fun.
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168 GA
Good that you believe me re the FT. This thing is I have always told you the truth. Pity you can't always trust people.
Re salaries, of course Blair, Mandelson, Neil and Glynis Kinnock and George Robertson are all raking it in ib the EEC pig trough.
I'm interested to know what you did as a job.
I think you will have to save the celebrations of a Labour victory until 2015 at the earliest
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#129
Checked out further my claim that inflation is not the immediate problem (Alastair, Gordon and other purists will disagree) but I stand by my claim.
House prices, the cause of many sleepless nights for long term economists (in complete contradiction of short term economists who like to borrow) is in freefall.
Food prices are also in freefall and a number of food outlets are employing new staff to meet higher demand.
Messrs. Tesco, Asda and Morrison etc are most miffed at their new found wealth.
Fuel, Gas and Electric are considered high and have caused a wide problem with Gas and Electric being within a consumer market system where there is no marketplace whatsoever. It is this alone that is causing consumer hardship.
The real long term threat of inflation has been around since the stone age and is nothing new.
The immediate problem with UK plc is most certainly not inflation.
If it had been, then Gordon would not have gone to Saudi Arabia.
Gordon said as much in the Commons today.
I was quite correct in what I wrote but I suspect that Gordon (a purist) will always blame inflation. It is up to you to decide whether inflationists, take the easy answer out. I say its much more complicated than that.
Yes, prices have gone up, but that is not Businesses main priority at this moment.
It is stagflation, and no truer word has been spoken in this new Century. It is the Stag bit that is causing much headache in this Country and it needs to be lifted out of the equation.
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170 Nigela awsome , I also found the dutch to be charming and witty but not particularly humorous, I not only lived in holland but worked there and I still have a number of friends there, I also spent a lot of time with families there, I dont think that I have any particular brand of humour but I have a sense of fun. I have never talked down to anyone in my life in fact I have allways prided myself on listening to the other persons point of view, and I am happy to debate a point or argue a point, if someone is offensive to me then I can be equally offensive to them but that is retaliation not talking down.
If you want a rather good example of talking down take a look at your last sentence.
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171 mikpko, Trust is something that has to be earned, like respect.
I'm not going to get into an argument over who gets what out of the EU or any other organisation, only to say that Tony Blair does not work for the EU, Ithink he is a peace envoy unpaid for the UN correct me if I am wrong. The others you mention are elected Euro MPs and doing their job in the same way as all the others are from 27 nations.
Iwould remind you though that Tony Blair gave Chris Patten and Paddy Ashdown pretty lucrative jobs when he took power, he also gave David Mellor a nice little earner as well.
I have explained in great detail on these blogs what I did for a living so you must have missed it, very briefly, I was a boat builder.
we'll have to wait and see about the elections
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Grandantidote
" I am here to do a job and thats what I am going to do". and I saw and heard that myself so I believe that. If that was'nt saying I am not going to hold an election I dont know what is.
No, that's avoiding the question. Saying "yes there will be", or "no there won't" is answering the question. What GB did is what most politicians do - he replied but did not answer the question.
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GaryElsby
I again question your belief that "Food prices are also in freefall". Where on earth is your evidence for this? For the record, I do our family shop twice a week and the prices I am paying now are way higher than they were even 6 months ago, never mind a year ago.
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173. grandantidote
Morning.
I know it’s a bit off topic but this goes back to an earlier discussion we had.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jun/25/daviddavis.civilliberties
Let me know what you think. It is the Guardian after all so you should be able to stomach it.
And stop winding every one up with the personal stuff. Give em the numbers.
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177 russell holmstead, you have'nt been paying attention have you I have made it quite clear that I do not read the gutter press and that includes all the daily papers and particularly the Sunday press.
Ah! of course your the master statistician are'nt you, strange that every set of statistics you bring foreward someone brings out a set to refute yours it all seems pretty futile to me but then you obviously enjoy it and that what we come on here for is'nt it or do you have a greater purpose in mind. what was it now statistics statistics statistics now what was it.
My posts are based on my life experience and observations not of others, the information I get is from the news programmes and bbc Parliament, but only the interviews on the news then I can see what is being said and form my own opinions not those of Peter Hitchens or Piers Morgan or people of that ilk.
I really was'nt aware that I was winding anyone up with what you call personal stuff, you dont have to read it, I have a little rapport with one or two people on these blogs but I was'nt aware that you had been made Chief of the Blogs.
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175 grawth He did not say he was going to hold an election, end of story.
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#176 Grawth
The German supermarkets that arrived in Britain a few years ago are highlighting a 20-30% increase in sales and are recruiting extra staff to facilitate demand.
I shouldn't highlight Mr. Aldi and Liddl but Messrs. Morrison, Sainsbury,Tesco ect.. are being deserted as shoppers seek a vast array of 'half price' goods.
Food is not the problem because shoppers aren't shopping, they are merely buying.
Check it out yourself and you'll see that Housing and food is out of the equation for inflation.
Stagnation is the problem and not inflation.
I say Alastair Darling is looking too broadly and is too long term.
A shorter term fix is what business requires and the market will do the rest.
Gary
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OK OK OK.
That was a present, I genuinely thought youd like. Didn’t know you didn’t read. Never mind Ill find you another one. Something off the TV perhaps.
I have to say its rather odd that you read all these wacky blogs but wont read informed articles like this one but each to their own.
Oh yes Youll be pleased to hear that my grant has come through to fund a quango to promote the eating carrots. Not sure how many staff to hire or what to pay myself. Ill keep you posted.
Oh yes and I found this for you.
“I did maths for a year at university. I don't think I was very good at it. And some people would say it shows. "Gordon Brown, April 2007” hahahha
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Ref 175. Grawth
Grawth here, are a few facts (no links to read for GA)
The Daily Telegraph first started speculation about a snap election on July 27th
(“Poll boost for Brown may lead to snap election" is the front-page headline)
Speculation frenzy continued and Brown made no statements on the subject for 2 months
The Tories had their conferenence the first week of October
They soared in the polls
Brown made the statement that GA talks of in 140 to Andrew Marr in Downing Street was made on Oct 6th
And people say he wasn’t clear and decisive.
Mad eh!
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181 russell holmstead,now then Russell your not on the top of your form, one sentence you say I did'nt know you didnt read,and the next your saying you read all these wacky blogs, the difference is that it does'nt matter whether what they say may be right or wrong, at least they believe their right, where as news papers know that their printing lies and are quite happy to do so.
I thought potatoes was your strong point not carrots but keep going and you'll have a nice drop of soup.you'll be able to open a soup kitchen for all the people that will be unemployed if the Tories manage to get in.
As I say I dont take too many peoples word on face value but if what you say was true that would still put him miles ahead of Dangerous Dave and Gormless Gideon.
Never deride honesty.
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Ref 175. Grawth.
But what is much import is the election that did happen in 2005.
The Tories claimed that Brown would take over mid term, they even tried to warn the public with the slogan “Vote Blair get Brown”
Labour hotly denied this of course, Blair persoanlly promised us to stick around for a full third term.
Brown and his team made Blairs life intolerable with endless briefings and rows. Blair gave way. DD actually predicted this whole situation in October 2004.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3714218.stm
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183. grandantidiote
Oh just read the dam article and tell me what you think.
Come on its quite interesting humour me.
Soup kitchens, that wasnt in the business plan, nice one thanks.
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Well, Well, Well, Nick what a difference a year makes.
The Henley by-election results are out!
Both the Tories and the Liberal Democrats saw their share of the vote rise compared with the 2005 General Election while Labour's fell by more than 11%.
Labour's Richard McKenzie could only poll 1,066 votes, behind the Green Party's Mark Stevenson on 1,321 and the BNP's Timothy Rait on 1,243.
Labour candidate Richard McKenzie lost his deposit as he trailed in behind the Greens and the British National Party.
Nick I wonder if you can help me out.
I cannot remember Labour, in modern politics, ever losing their deposit in a national by-election. Can you? Or is this a first for NuLabour.
People put BNP before NuLabour. Nick do you also feel that there is a message their?
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Happy 1st anniversary Gordon!!! Lets hope there isn't a 2nd.
Well, the Henley by-election told us a lot. Cons increased share of the vote. lavour fifth behind Liberals, Greens and BNP. Hmmm.
I'm still waiting to hear what Gordon's grand new strategy is. As far as I can see it's steady (or rather unsteady) as she goes with a bit of tinkering around the edges.
I suggest that's not much use for the 90% who feel that they are similar or worse off than their parents. So much for Gordon's improvement in social mobility.
Is he having a party???
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No party at no 10
But bet the BNP are.
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186 roll on 2010, and your overjoyed at what was a forgone conclusion,they really had to struggle to get that seat did'nt they. Do you honestly think that labour made any attempt to win Henley, I'm suprised that they got any votes, in a constituency that probably is the home of the highest paid and richest people in the country, they were bound to support a party thats for the working class were'nt they.
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165 russell holmstead, I thought you did'nt like personal stuff, and then you curse at me then ask me to humour you.
Well out of curiosityI had a look, I could'nt find anything written by DD but read an interesting article by Jan Morris, much of which I agreed with but not with the same confidence as she, that she was right in everything she wrote.
As I keep saying its only one persons observations and perception that she wishes to convey to us. we may agree with her but we dont have to.
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189 russell holmstead, and your happy for the BNP are you russell?
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#190 grandantidote
Yep I am really over the moon. Labour did not even hold onto its 2005 third place position.
NuLabour pushed into 5th place by the BNP!
Probably the reason NuLabour did not make an attempt to win Henley is because they are broke. They will need to scrimp and save to have a go at the biggy in 2010.
What should be interesting are the EU elections next year. NuLabour will more than likely have to apply the same strategy as they have above. ie. sit on the side lines!
I am looking forward to those elections.
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190:
I fear the problem for GB now is that many working class people are beginning to desert The Labour Party. Where their vote is going is anybody's guess. Perhaps they are sitting on their hands. Perhaps sadly some of them are lurching towards The BNP.
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#184 RussellHolmstoel
Read your link to the DD prediction of October 2004, with regards to the 2005 election. How astute he was.
Wonder if he has made any predictions about the 2010 elections?
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#194 waldorf29
At the end of my posting at #186 I wrote;
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People put BNP before NuLabour. Nick do you also feel there is a message there?
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I think your posting encapsulates my feelings entirely!
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#190 grandantidote
By the way I hope that NuLabour can afford to pay for the deposit they lost!
I am sure that some people on this blogg would contribute to a whip round.
I wont!
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The problem is that the people are getting angry. You can fool some of the people some of the time, you can fool all of the people some of the time, but you cannot all of the people all of the time.
I know, boring old quotation, but never has it been so true.
Take the MoD. We are told at every death that they were a brilliant soldier, that they had a great future ahead of them, that the family is proud and that the regiment will honour the fallen.
So, just once, just once, let Gordon Brown go to the receipt of a body of one of our fallen from Afghanistan. He dare not. He tells us every week about the deaths. What will he do when parliament is in recess, recall parliament. What will he do when he is on holiday?
The adventures in Afghanistan and Iraq are a repeat of our 'glorious' past, which was not at all glorious. Brown is in the grip of the MoD, show some back bone Gordon. Tell us what we know, that the lives have been wasted, that it is not and never was a noble cause. It was about capturing Bin Laden, and the illegal overthrow of a regime, Iraq.
When you tell the truth, when you are honest, then, and only then will you have a chance of being a true leader. Be honest Gordon, please be honest!
How many young men and women die for lies and deceits. Not of your making but you, Gordon, must sort it!
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192. grandantidote
Of course Im not it’s an absolute disaster.
I don’t even want to see a conservative land slide Im fed up of land slides and all the arrogance and disregard for democracy that they seem to bring with them.
I want to see a change of leader, reduced spending and taxation and them getting to grips with the huge levels of waste and inefficiencies in the public sector. Its their only hope. Surely even you see this now.
Pleased you read the article though. I liked it a lot because she just encapsulated my position better than I ever could and shes an old and interesting character. But of course its only one point of view and probably, as she points out, one that the public at large don’t agree with.
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195. Roll_On_2010
Interesting wasnt it.
Dont think he needs to much intuition for his next prediction
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#199 RussellHolmstoel
Your blog says it all as far as I am concerned.
Thatcher got into power in 1979, with a landslide victory, and for over 18 years we had no credible opposition.
Then NuLabour got into power in 1997, also with a landslide victory, and for 10 years we have not had a credible opposition.
During both those periods we have had conviction donkeys ride roughshod over people.
If governments had smaller majorities and stronger opposition then they would have to fight harder to impose on us mere mortals some of the things they do.
Whenever I here PMs mention they have a Vision or have conviction, I cringe!
Brown says he wants to give us a vision when in reality all we have got is division!
One afterthought - If governments had to fight for every pound they spent, then maybe there would be less waste!
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Re pet projects being forced upon us.
Last week I received an email from a Quango designed to assess preferred companies for Olympic contracts. One of the questions was “How many transsexuals do you employ”
What irks me is that some department is being is being paid to analysis this information, lawyers are drafting legislation, committees will be discussing the initiative and they probably even have a logo in mind. What is more the government seriously expects me to keep records on the numbers of transsexuals I employ.
Good to see my hard earnt tax is being put to such a good use. I thought, so I emailed Harriet to ask her exactly how I go about collating this information from 80 fairly hefty but sensitive lads. No reply yet, but I promise to post her advice.
I have no problem with transsexuals by the way just Harman and this invasive government.
What the lads do with their evenings and weekends is their business, not mine and certainly not the governments.
I do wonder just how much body armor could be bought for our boys with the funds used for this.
The left wing element on this forum argue that there will always be waste and so lets just accept it. c'est la vie.
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#180 GaryElsby
OK, I will try my hardest not to sound patronising, but I know I'm going to fail so I'll apologise up front.
Just because Lidl are cheaper than Tesco's does NOT mean that prices are coming down. It just means Lidl are (still) cheaper than Tescos.
Both companies have the majority of their food at a much higher price than this time last year. This is due to higher demand around the world, causing higher prices where food is produced, and higher oil prices causing higher transport costs.
The reason Lidl are taking on extra staff, is the same reason budget places ALWAYS do well in economic downturns - simply as prices go up people try to make their money go further, so they switch to the cheaper shops, which in turn leads them to take on more staff. It still doesn't mean that their prices are coming down, it just means that more people are taking advantage of the fact that they are cheaper than where they usually shop.
Incidentally, even today's headlines about supermarket price wars do NOT mean that prices "are in freefall". It just means that the bigger stores are worried about losing out to the Lidls of this world, and are announcing some short-term special offers, and low prices for low quality goods (Asda's 16p for 8 sausages springs to mind).
Inflation is still going up, and food price inflation is going up more than most things (except possibly energy).
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#203 Grawth.
Hmmmmmm.....your logic defies me but I'm at least pleased to see that you recognise my genius at spotting a downward turn in inflation and Alastair Darling's troubles.
The Labour Party must now realise they have a secret weapon in me for writing this story 4 days before it appeared on the BBC website (business) or SKY.
Eat your hearts out Nick and Adam.
Perhaps Grawth could explain the logic further and suggest how hundreds of price drops in the Supermarkets does not relate to more money in the purse?
How abour using the sam logic at the petrol pumps when petrol goes into freefall, soon.
Gary
An economics genius discovered by the Labour Party.
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Here's what has caused this economic downturn. The American Hawks are thinking oil reserves are on a downward spiral, instability in the middle east, increased demand from up and coming new super powers. Hm we got a problem George (apart from you). Lets do a bit of brainstorming and see if we can come up with a way to get a foothold in the middle east and secure the oil reserves and bring stability. Sound far fetched ? Well they have a foothold in the middle east and they control Iraq's oil reserves. As for stability well something has went terribly wrong. Or has it. You can bet a lot of the Bush administration are making a mint out of the war on terror and the high oil prices. Doesn't Iraq, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia have a say at OPEC. You would think think after all we have done for them they would be fighting our corner on prices and demand. Or maybe the high oil prices really suit the USA and the UK. If we are making the Iraqis pay for our involvement in their country with oil then the dearer we sell it the more we get payed. Far fetched I know but I just don't get how all these analysts in the pay of both the Bush and Blair administrations before the Iraq war could get it so wrong as to how things would pan out. Why that would suggest that all that time spent educating these guys(excluding Bush) to take to take up positions of power has been money wasted. We could have just have asked the guy on the street. His answer having weighed up the facts would have been. Oil is going to run out soon thats a fact. Instead of wasting billions on a war we can't win lets spend it on alternative energy research.
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With Labour facing financial difficulties over the repayment of millions of pounds worth of loans, the desertion of backers could be disastrous.
Sir Maurice Hatter, a millionaire businessman who has given more than £176,000, told the Sunday Times he would not donate more to a Brown-led party.
"He was a good number two, but he is not a number one. I was a Tony Blair supporter and I think his successor is doing very poorly. I believe that Brown is a nonrunner. The party would be better without him being prime minister."
Is this just the view of an isolated Blairite or the tip of the iceberg?
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Not that this is in any way of huge significance but even the father of The Williams tennis sisters has come out and said that GB looked good when he was behind someone else (I'm assuming he meant GB). And this from someone who has no real interest in politics.
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